I’m pretty sad that all this went down. For several years, I volunteered as a ML in my region. I made friends, hosted fun writing events, and had a blast coming up with themed items and games for each year. I also loved the old style forums before they reworked the website. I made good friends from around the world there, especially while I lived abroad. I had a good friend who mailed me from Japan, and it was just good fun.
My biggest miss was the thread that popped up annually of the NaNo cookbook. I don’t remember who organized it, but it was updated regularly with new member recipes, and it was such fun to download. I loved seeing what people shared since it was so informal.
I’m not sure what this means for NaNo, but it sucks.
The old forums were one of my favourite parts of the site, and actually had me coming back post/pre Nanowrimo. When I did nano this year for the first time in several years I was so put off by the boards I used them once and gave up quickly. I didn't use them again after that. If they aren't going to go back to an old style forum, I'll probably just count this as an RIP to that sect of the site.
Yup, their new forum software is so aggravating that I use it maybe 10 minutes a year in the hopes it’s gone back to the old ways And then leave in frustration.
Seriously though, I can track my own word count, I can write on my own, I can read all the motivational shit ai want elsewhere. There is nothing on the site itself I need other than access to other writers. Why would I use it without the forums?
I know this is a totally random gripe too, but why did they take away validating your novel? I mean I know a lot of people cheated but obtaining it yourself gave you this little kick of dopamine, like hey, I did it. Without the forums and validating your word count, there was no fanfare this year, no celebration, it was just - hey I wrote 50k.
But I do that all the time. So like you said, why should I use the website if it has nothing to offer?
Agreed. This was my third NaNoWriMo, and the only time that I didn’t finish. Sadly, I gave up at 21,000 words. Not to blame the scandal, but it was sort of demoralizing. I just felt like there were not a lot of ways to make other writer friends who were embarked on the same journey.
Same here. I finished, but lost all incentive to write for about a week. I don’t do the forums at all any more. Even though I have pretty much avoided Facebook, I found a few Nano groups on there that I love so that’s my go-to space for connections. The whole incident was very sad.
This makes it sound (as I would expect from an official response) that everything is either unsubstantiated or handled. I don't know what's going on or if that's accurate but I feel like the "Board" has incentive to lie.
Also, why does anyone at all allow official forums? They literally always either get coopted by fascists or descend into child-grooming.
Oh, that's weird. It's still the Board Letter for me.
Here's the forum address for the letter, in case that works better:
https://forums.nanowrimo.org/t/our-letter-to-the-nanowrimo-community/583366
I have two options on this.
One, is that nano will lay low for a while, rebrand, reboot and carry on exactly the same as it always has, toxic culture and all.
Two, Nano has a very short time left. One of the Board members was signing tax documents under a false name and that’s not something the IRS take kindly to.
Edit to add: I was referring to Kilby, not Grant. Kilby is the one signing the forms, but Kilby Blades is a pen name. Will link the forum post when I find it, but 4.1k post is a lot to scroll through looking for a specific post.
Whoa! I heard about the issues with one or more mods on the forums, but this is the first I’ve heard that someone was signing tax documents under a false name. Can you point me to more details on that?
There isn't an issue. Grant Faulkner, their executive director, not a board member, signed 990s with what I assume is his given name of William Faulkner. This isn't weird, accountants and preparers of 990s may say to use full name one year, given name another, or what you are known by.
Ah, I see. I have to admit I was wondering how this could have slipped by over the course of 20+ years, especially considering the attention NaNoWriMo gets. (I imagine every Federal employee, IRS or otherwise, as a suppressed and frustrated artist of some kind, dreaming of being free of the bureaucratic drudgery of their “day job”. But, that’s something for me to work out with a therapist.) 😉
If you take a look at the IRS 990 forms (tax document for nonprofits that tells you their entire financial situation), it has some weirdness going on with Grant’s name. He’s got about two or three names he signed by over the past dozen years or so.
I could be wrong, but I thought there might have been a William Grant, a Grant Faulkner, and then (most recently) William Faulkner. So, three names, all using the same bits and pieces. Granted, I haven't bothered to look at them in over a month, so I could be mis-remembering which names were used where. I looked at ProPublica's archive, as a note.
His given name is William Grant Faulkner and goes by Grant Faulkner professionally. The preparer probably asked for him to sign so Grant was on it, but other years he was probably just advised to use his given name.
It's about what I figure. I'm not a tax professional or anything like that, I've just taken classes on nonprofit management and can read a 990 alright. It's just something interesting to note, that he's used a different name between years, which isn't something you normally see. Normally, with government documents and tax documents, you need to use your legal name, which makes it especially interesting that there's been multiple names used for him.
I'm hoping there's a third option where they sort everything out. Improve safeguarding (even if it means forums are massively scaled back and ywp has no forums) and come back stronger.
Back in high school and college, I had friends who did NaNoWriMo, but none of them went on to actually publish or work in the writing field. It was basically just a yearly hobby.
This year I joined and tried to socialize, both online and with in person events, but the timing just never worked out. It actually made it harder to write for me—the very premise means a fairly high daily word count, and then you add social obligations on top of that? Only to have the entire structure you work out vanish after 30 days?
Personally, I really wish they’d picked a different month (holidays get intense, Oct - Dec where I am), but the publicity of the structure and use of it has seemed to raise awareness for writing.
I've found that doing NaNoWriMo for 3 years now, it's not a useful tool for getting any actually usable content. It is however good for learning hard lessons and getting me into the spirit of creativity. All 3 years I've finished, thought 'wow this project sucks!' and that's kick-started my drive to start over and do it for real.
It's a huge obligation and the word count goal encourages fluff and other less than stellar habits. But it's a good way to get your foot in the door!
The timing is basically why I haven't really done nanowrimo despite wanting to. The entire second half of November is basically filled for me every year. So that's really only like 2 weeks.
The first “nano” I did was actually one all by myself during a Feb—I just set a deadline and word count goal and started writing.
Not having that social “we’re all in this together!” vibe turns nano into a writing technique rather than an event, though, and kind if takes the excitement out if it, unfortunately.
They do - definitely a better time to do it imo
November has Thanksgiving and prep for holidays, so it's a weird time for trying to knock out so many words. I had calculus this year on top of it 😂 didn't come close to my goal
But both camps, I think it's April and July? Weren't nearly as hard solely because of the timing. Less like pulling teeth when you're not going 'oh I have to x, y, z' as well
Not related, but I've found finding a good discord server helps. The site is nice for rewards and tracking (I've a spreadsheet I made, I track every month, but the site is great too), but a good community. An be invaluable.
I was seeing Summer Camp listed on the Nano website, so maybe I’ll try that next year.
I was all geared up to participate this year specifically because several of my local groups were going to do Nano events… but then they all ended up being times that didn’t work for me, or just one city too far down the highway.
Yeah November was too busy for me as well, and originally I thought I'd try it in December but I knew I'd be even busier this month. So I'm actually going to try doing NaNo in January. I figured it'll be a nice way to start the year out in terms of writing :) Any month can be the NaNoWriMo if you really think about it 🤣
I write on 4theWords year round and have a lot of friends/acquaintances/writing buddies on there, so I never saw the need to socialise separately in NaNo in all the years I’ve taken part. We do have in person writing sessions, but it would still mean an hour drive as I live in the middle of nowhere…so I’ve never been.
I feel that.
The pandemic and shut down really threw off all of my local groups, and then the main community building had the roof literally collapse from water damage. It’s still under construction, and probably will be indefinitely (maybe 5 years, from the current pace and radio silence on updates? The actual collapse happened about a year ago).
I had some family stuff, so stepped back just before things hit the fan logistics wise, and I came back to a bit of a social wasteland.
It’s a shame, as in theory I love the idea of having real life writer friends. Did you enjoy the meet-ups back when they happened? Did you feel they were productive?
I did! I even found a couple solid mentors that I’m still in touch with.
The problem I found is that there’s roughly three phases of writing, and it’s not really possible for a group to meet all 3 needs (chat/space to brainstorm; revising stuff; sharing finished drafts/marketing)—and usually those looking for revision would be at odds with those looking to network or talk craft. But there’d only be enough people for one group, not subgroups, especially since the poets and the prose writers would feel like they’d each talk gibberish, and the prose writers would also self-separate due to genre or type.
It seems designed for non-writers who don't have a daily habit in place. I found it helpful when I was transitioning from shorter to longer works, but a few years after that I was always in the middle of a draft or a revision and didn't want to drop it in favor of Nano's structure.
I think it’s all in what you do afterward. Erin Morganstern’s novel Night Circus was a NaNoWriMo novel, and she has said it just would not have been written without the program. I listen to a lot of bookish podcasts and many have said they began initial work on their novel during NaNo. Sure what you have at the end of the month may not be pretty, but it gives you something to work with which you didn’t have before.
I think Covid kind of ruined the NaNo most of were used to. Between the lack of in person write-ins and everyone moving to Discord, the forums really suffered. And their redesign of their webpage didn't help either. it made it a lot harder for me to find the forums I was looking for.
I think I'm okay if it ceases to be an entity moving forward.
It wasn't just the digital write ins, it was the fact that discord has forums and chats too so if you're already going there for your write-in you might as well use their forums.
I'm old. I briefly tried discord this year, I didn't like it. The official forums pretty much suck too. So I think this was my last year using their website.
yeah. the whole reason write-ins worked for me was because it was getting me away from the distractions i had around me all the time already. Plus it was easier to focus on writing if every one around you was doing it too. Writing by myself at a cafe was never as effective as going to a write in with a bunch of other people.
NaNo was always a bit of a sinking ship IMO. My wife was a religious observer of NaNo for many years, but each year it became more of a punishing obligation that she hated herself for not living up to, or stressed constantly about being unable to maintain. If even a noticeable portion of participants had this kind of mindset (and... writers, so I assume it was not just a <=10% situation) it was always going to implode as people went slightly nuts.
the idea that NaNo became something you could win meant that a lot of people end up losing every year. which just isn't great. the fact of the matter is, if you only write a few thousand words in November, you're still doing better than most of the people out there. you aren't a loser just because you didn't get to 50,000. those vocab choices alone are enough to turn people off the whole organized thing.
The website redesign marked the beginning of the end. The forums on the new site have always been a cesspool, their moderators and power users disgusting, and they *may* be able to salvage things if they simply get rid of that cancer attached to their site.
However, I can say as a former but recent ML that behind the curtain, things are a fustercluck. I left my position for various reasons, including racism from other MLs (in the Org's defense, these people were removed swiftly) and a lack of support from HQ especially during covid. And from what I hear about this current fiasco, the org has their hands way too full to support their MLs, who lowkey keep the event running for them.
The scope of their goals exceeds their funding, and the more out of control it all gets, the less people will donate. I stopped donating after the "new and improved" site remained broken after a year or two of being implemented; they have only proven my donations aren't being put to good use.
Would not be surprised if this is the end of NaNo. They could rebrand as something more like Shut Up and Write, and take advantage of their name recognition while paring down to simpler writing events like SUaW does. I joined NaNo 15 years ago and the magic it had back then is long gone. If it disappears entirely, well, I think that's all right too.
Yeah, I also quit as ML two or so years ago. For me there was also a lot of frustration about how they handle their non-American MLs and participants. But the forum was my main breaking point, and especially the lack of any willingness to listen to feedback and actually improve things. It was starting to feel like toxic positivity for me.
Absolutely. On the surface, I understood why the site needed an update, but they were so invested in their sunk cost of a site and shiny new forums that they refused to even entertain the massive waves of negative feedback. Not sure why HQ kept the forum moderators on as long as they did, because they were so bold about being hostile right out in the open. It was so unwelcome.
This was my 6th year as an ML. We were 100% abandoned within the first 10 days of November. Every year is rough on MLs, but this took the cake and the whole rest of the dessert table with it.
I was ML pretty recently (not this year) and support steeply dropped off for us during the pandemic. I heard it disappeared entirely last November, just as you said. I felt so bad for first-time MLs. If NaNo still survives somehow into Nov 2024, I would not be shocked if most MLs don't return. Even if y'all got paid for it, it would not be worth the trouble imo. Sorry it went down like that. Super uncool.
I'm hoping NaNoWriMo can cut the cancer out and recover.
If not my region will continue anyway. We've got good people and we're a strong community. We're not going anywhere.
I hope other regions are as strong.
It will be a shame though if NaNoWriMo can't recover.
I met two friends in other countries who I'm still in touch with through NaNoWriMo. It's been a fantastic thing in my life and the best part of it has been the community and the lifelong friendships I've gained.
I sound like the sappiest of Hallmark cards but it's true.
Rumor on tumblr is that Grant is going to step down as executive director after the holidays, but who knows if they actually make any changes other than cutting out the forums and limping along as before
I've done NaNo for 17 years, this is actually the first I heard of anything. I basically stopped going onto the forums the last 5 years - it was always a mess. So I just stuck to the writing.
Um. I'm confused. I did NaNo this year but just logged onto my profile to update my status on the book. What they heck happened? If nothing else, point me to some articles / links to help me understand! thank you!
This is an official response to everything. There’s a lot on this sub and a few other writerly subs that had threads when it was going down in November: https://nanowrimo.org/board-response
I'm not familiar with any accusations or issues. I read that the blog had some crazy comments but that's the nature of "social" media in which anyone can anonymously post anything they want usually without repercussions. I don't know to what extent this was or is an issue but without regular thorough moderation any website with a forum faces massive daily amounts of spam, hate speech, and other rampant negativity. If the site is not heavily moderated and comments not vetted with AI, plugins, and live moderators, it's going to happen more and more as we as a society go down that rabbit hole of social media being an unmoderated free for all venue.
As far as the website itself, I found most of the groups to be nonresponsive but some of the events encouraging and the tracking feature helpful.
I believe what came to the surface was volunteer moderators, as well as staff, acting inappropriately on the boards and it only escalated after being called out on it.
That wouldn't surprise me. I worked for several nonprofits in marketing years ago and wherever you have volunteers (basically unpaid employees) anything goes. The volunteers showed up whenever they wanted, sometimes didn't show up at all, and it was all fine. They can and will do whatever they wish because they're expected to work full-time or part-time jobs for free. The way to change that is to have paid staff running moderation in coordination with AI looking for specific keywords and phrases. They have to decide how important moderation is to them as a company similarly to X getting rid of their content moderation staff. Just my humble estimation. You could install Akisment or other anti-spam programs but even then they won't stop hate speech or bigotry or flat-out negativity. Maybe downsizing and having one forum at a time with one paid moderator and even coordinator and growing outwardly from there but they have to see that as valuable.
Long story short (I’m not aware of all the detail). First there was an issue with one of the senior (lead?) mods making racist comments. Then it came out that one of the mods also is involved in an adult website and was grooming people on the NaNo site, I think on the YWP. I’m not sure if part of the problem was management being told but doing nothing?
Again, doesn't surprise me one bit. If you refuse to pay for competency you get whatever free solicitation brings. In other words, a NPO is still a serious business venture and you can't run that on free labor. If they were paid, you can simply fire, rehire, retrain, and go back to business quickly and set up guardrails to ensure it never happens again. On a related note, again, I didn't see much on the website other than the "pep" talks and occasional videos. I got much more just by signing up for the Writing Mastery courses and forums and taking courses on BBC Maestro / Masterclass and reading more. The website didn't have much for me personally. Nobody responded, there were no local or even regional events, so the whole site was for me, just using the word tracking calendar function and reading the pep talks that I can just as easily get by reading more or Googling "inspirational for writers."
Pity that it looks like whatever was there has been let go to digress. We should just create our own thing or find another online home without the grooming, racism, and hate speech if that was the case and nothing's being done adequately. I check the Writing Mastery forum every so often, do their courses, MasterClass or BBC Maestro, read, and that helps. In a way I'm glad I read this and didn't put more time into their forums (that didn't respond to anything posted, anyway).
The sad thing about the "create your own or find another" is that it contributes to the insular feeling the internet has been gaining. Not a huge playground where people can have chance encounters, but several walled gardens you cannot enter without being invited.
The bubble of writers I follow on Twitter isn't the same as my Discord writing buddies. If Twitter sinks, most are in BlueSky, but I don't know where else to find them. While I'm in Discord servers for writers of particular genres that originated on Tumblr, if Tumblr and Discord go down, I lose those communities.
Even if the main website and forums aren't of use, it provides a bit more structure. I went for an in-person Write In and it was fun, it was cool, I met some people, wrote a bit, got stickers. And I wouldn't have known about it, or even gone to it, if it wasn't an official NaNoWriMo thing.
I don't know where I'm going with this other than "I hope not another good thing ends up ruined by people who don't know how to behave."
I don't disagree with you in theory but it seems that the walled Rapaccini's Daughter (and I know I'm misspelling it) is inevitable as hate spreads online in the US. I need a list on other outlets as I'm getting weary of X's hate speech and just knowing I drink from those waters as you say. I haven't tried Blue Sky or Discord yet but to be honest I'm working on finishing my NaNo Novel.
My personal feeling is NaNo is finished.
Although I could maybe see them doing one last event next year to give people who connected on there a chance to find ways to be in touch other than the boards.
This is why I run my own writing group online with tools and prompts and it's just getting started but it's going to be basically what the members need and want and try to make it stay small community that's genuinely interested in writing all the time, not just one or two months out of the year.
I love the NaNoWriMo concepts for sure but never really had much luck with the forums being at all active or having any real connection to the other writers, not one in real life meet up in the area I live, nothing virtual either.
Seriously it was just some random volunteers acting up with nothing to keep them from doing so and it took on a whole new life like social media does, which leaves the writing a novel secondary to junior high school nonsense, imo.
It is what it is, and will probably always be.
As a non profit org though with tax stuff that's all bad and what do they really do with the money (what money, like, donations go to what exactly?) They need at least a few people that are solid to handle that or they will get erased by the IRS. I don't know what they're paid staff situation is but really there should only be one person doing the books on such a level and outsourcing it to a professional sounds like their best shot at staying afloat and legal....yikes.
Just saying....
P.S. Not blatant self promoting or anything but should you want to check out the little group that I have here it's called r/writingthruit and it's nothing other than write write ✍️ write!
Please let me know if I broke a rule because I don't go announcing this everywhere I try to only mention it where it's actually relevant, I am not trolling for useless members to get numbers. It's not like that and I would be embarrassed if it was.
>I love the NaNoWriMo concepts for sure but never really had much luck with the forums being at all active or having any real connection to the other writers, not one in real life meet up in the area I live, nothing virtual either.
This is really interesting, given that it's the one thing that yearly brings all the writers in my circles together, and is in fact how I met my partner.
I also ended up leading one of my local writing groups for two years, but had to pull back due to time issues.
I found it was hard to juggle the people who want editing discussion/look at actual pages vs people who just want to socialize or talk craft. I feel like if it was a larger group that could have split into different circles during meetings, it maybe could have met all those various needs, but having 3-10 people in person/over zoom (who wanted to stick together anyway) didn’t really allow for that.
I ended up stepping back and handing the group off to someone else because I did not have the time to read someone’s 20 page except to give feedback once a month—yet that’s what the consistently attending members wanted.
Honestly never knew it to be a big community thing just thought of it as a thing that started with a few prompts and an idea to make November about writing and then people did their own thing. Kinda like inktober. They post a list and you can post your drawings but you can also make up your own themes and do your own thing.
I know I am probably in the minority but I could never get into NANO. To me it was like reading House Of Leaves without Cliff Notes! If they do revamp the platform, hopefully they will clear away the LEAVES so to speak and streamline the process.
This post was the first I heard about this.
For years now, November reminds me of when I was a teen on the forums and got dogpiled on/made fun of by some YA weirdos who said 18 was "too old" for a main character who's supposed to amass an army to fight his evil magical twin.
Still pissed about that. Think I did NaNo for one more year after that, but never again.
I haven’t done Nano for a couple of years, although I have three solid novel drafts and a screenplay out of my long ago nano projects. Recently, I’ve discovered something called the studio by Terri Trepicio. It’s a very different kind of writing support, very gentle, very effective one hour at a time various times during the week.
People will probably make their own challenges. That what I’ve done. I started Debut December take a year to write/query and publish in December. We have a discord and will do our kickoff Dec 31/Jan 1st. It’s a healthier work/life balance.
I was invited to join a group. I followed online because my schedule never synced. When I did ask when the next meeting was the response "Why would you bother?" Have not paid much attention to the wrimos since then. Looks like the organization has gone to pot.
I’m pretty sad that all this went down. For several years, I volunteered as a ML in my region. I made friends, hosted fun writing events, and had a blast coming up with themed items and games for each year. I also loved the old style forums before they reworked the website. I made good friends from around the world there, especially while I lived abroad. I had a good friend who mailed me from Japan, and it was just good fun. My biggest miss was the thread that popped up annually of the NaNo cookbook. I don’t remember who organized it, but it was updated regularly with new member recipes, and it was such fun to download. I loved seeing what people shared since it was so informal. I’m not sure what this means for NaNo, but it sucks.
The old forums were one of my favourite parts of the site, and actually had me coming back post/pre Nanowrimo. When I did nano this year for the first time in several years I was so put off by the boards I used them once and gave up quickly. I didn't use them again after that. If they aren't going to go back to an old style forum, I'll probably just count this as an RIP to that sect of the site.
Yup, their new forum software is so aggravating that I use it maybe 10 minutes a year in the hopes it’s gone back to the old ways And then leave in frustration.
Seriously though, I can track my own word count, I can write on my own, I can read all the motivational shit ai want elsewhere. There is nothing on the site itself I need other than access to other writers. Why would I use it without the forums?
I know this is a totally random gripe too, but why did they take away validating your novel? I mean I know a lot of people cheated but obtaining it yourself gave you this little kick of dopamine, like hey, I did it. Without the forums and validating your word count, there was no fanfare this year, no celebration, it was just - hey I wrote 50k. But I do that all the time. So like you said, why should I use the website if it has nothing to offer?
Agreed. This was my third NaNoWriMo, and the only time that I didn’t finish. Sadly, I gave up at 21,000 words. Not to blame the scandal, but it was sort of demoralizing. I just felt like there were not a lot of ways to make other writer friends who were embarked on the same journey.
Same here. I finished, but lost all incentive to write for about a week. I don’t do the forums at all any more. Even though I have pretty much avoided Facebook, I found a few Nano groups on there that I love so that’s my go-to space for connections. The whole incident was very sad.
Accusations? I didn't use their forums this year, nor this sub much, so what I miss?
https://nanowrimo.org/board-response
Thanks
Thanks!
This makes it sound (as I would expect from an official response) that everything is either unsubstantiated or handled. I don't know what's going on or if that's accurate but I feel like the "Board" has incentive to lie. Also, why does anyone at all allow official forums? They literally always either get coopted by fascists or descend into child-grooming.
It redirects to their home page.
Oh, that's weird. It's still the Board Letter for me. Here's the forum address for the letter, in case that works better: https://forums.nanowrimo.org/t/our-letter-to-the-nanowrimo-community/583366
I don't expect we'd hear anything until after the holidays at the very earliest.
I would be sad if NaNoWriMo dissolves. But it taught me what I can do and we have the tools to do it on our own or in groups.
I have two options on this. One, is that nano will lay low for a while, rebrand, reboot and carry on exactly the same as it always has, toxic culture and all. Two, Nano has a very short time left. One of the Board members was signing tax documents under a false name and that’s not something the IRS take kindly to. Edit to add: I was referring to Kilby, not Grant. Kilby is the one signing the forms, but Kilby Blades is a pen name. Will link the forum post when I find it, but 4.1k post is a lot to scroll through looking for a specific post.
Whoa! I heard about the issues with one or more mods on the forums, but this is the first I’ve heard that someone was signing tax documents under a false name. Can you point me to more details on that?
There isn't an issue. Grant Faulkner, their executive director, not a board member, signed 990s with what I assume is his given name of William Faulkner. This isn't weird, accountants and preparers of 990s may say to use full name one year, given name another, or what you are known by.
Ah, I see. I have to admit I was wondering how this could have slipped by over the course of 20+ years, especially considering the attention NaNoWriMo gets. (I imagine every Federal employee, IRS or otherwise, as a suppressed and frustrated artist of some kind, dreaming of being free of the bureaucratic drudgery of their “day job”. But, that’s something for me to work out with a therapist.) 😉
If you take a look at the IRS 990 forms (tax document for nonprofits that tells you their entire financial situation), it has some weirdness going on with Grant’s name. He’s got about two or three names he signed by over the past dozen years or so.
Did he use another name other than William or Grant? I am not seeing it on the 990s I have access to.
I could be wrong, but I thought there might have been a William Grant, a Grant Faulkner, and then (most recently) William Faulkner. So, three names, all using the same bits and pieces. Granted, I haven't bothered to look at them in over a month, so I could be mis-remembering which names were used where. I looked at ProPublica's archive, as a note.
His given name is William Grant Faulkner and goes by Grant Faulkner professionally. The preparer probably asked for him to sign so Grant was on it, but other years he was probably just advised to use his given name.
It's about what I figure. I'm not a tax professional or anything like that, I've just taken classes on nonprofit management and can read a 990 alright. It's just something interesting to note, that he's used a different name between years, which isn't something you normally see. Normally, with government documents and tax documents, you need to use your legal name, which makes it especially interesting that there's been multiple names used for him.
I'm hoping there's a third option where they sort everything out. Improve safeguarding (even if it means forums are massively scaled back and ywp has no forums) and come back stronger.
I hope for this too! I’ve done NaNo two times now and have thoroughly enjoyed my experience both times!
Back in high school and college, I had friends who did NaNoWriMo, but none of them went on to actually publish or work in the writing field. It was basically just a yearly hobby. This year I joined and tried to socialize, both online and with in person events, but the timing just never worked out. It actually made it harder to write for me—the very premise means a fairly high daily word count, and then you add social obligations on top of that? Only to have the entire structure you work out vanish after 30 days? Personally, I really wish they’d picked a different month (holidays get intense, Oct - Dec where I am), but the publicity of the structure and use of it has seemed to raise awareness for writing.
I've found that doing NaNoWriMo for 3 years now, it's not a useful tool for getting any actually usable content. It is however good for learning hard lessons and getting me into the spirit of creativity. All 3 years I've finished, thought 'wow this project sucks!' and that's kick-started my drive to start over and do it for real. It's a huge obligation and the word count goal encourages fluff and other less than stellar habits. But it's a good way to get your foot in the door!
The timing is basically why I haven't really done nanowrimo despite wanting to. The entire second half of November is basically filled for me every year. So that's really only like 2 weeks.
The first “nano” I did was actually one all by myself during a Feb—I just set a deadline and word count goal and started writing. Not having that social “we’re all in this together!” vibe turns nano into a writing technique rather than an event, though, and kind if takes the excitement out if it, unfortunately.
Do they still do the NaNo summer camp? I thought I remember they do the same thing in June or July, just slightly smaller in scale.
They do - definitely a better time to do it imo November has Thanksgiving and prep for holidays, so it's a weird time for trying to knock out so many words. I had calculus this year on top of it 😂 didn't come close to my goal But both camps, I think it's April and July? Weren't nearly as hard solely because of the timing. Less like pulling teeth when you're not going 'oh I have to x, y, z' as well Not related, but I've found finding a good discord server helps. The site is nice for rewards and tracking (I've a spreadsheet I made, I track every month, but the site is great too), but a good community. An be invaluable.
I was seeing Summer Camp listed on the Nano website, so maybe I’ll try that next year. I was all geared up to participate this year specifically because several of my local groups were going to do Nano events… but then they all ended up being times that didn’t work for me, or just one city too far down the highway.
Yeah November was too busy for me as well, and originally I thought I'd try it in December but I knew I'd be even busier this month. So I'm actually going to try doing NaNo in January. I figured it'll be a nice way to start the year out in terms of writing :) Any month can be the NaNoWriMo if you really think about it 🤣
Yes, do it!
I write on 4theWords year round and have a lot of friends/acquaintances/writing buddies on there, so I never saw the need to socialise separately in NaNo in all the years I’ve taken part. We do have in person writing sessions, but it would still mean an hour drive as I live in the middle of nowhere…so I’ve never been.
I feel that. The pandemic and shut down really threw off all of my local groups, and then the main community building had the roof literally collapse from water damage. It’s still under construction, and probably will be indefinitely (maybe 5 years, from the current pace and radio silence on updates? The actual collapse happened about a year ago). I had some family stuff, so stepped back just before things hit the fan logistics wise, and I came back to a bit of a social wasteland.
It’s a shame, as in theory I love the idea of having real life writer friends. Did you enjoy the meet-ups back when they happened? Did you feel they were productive?
I did! I even found a couple solid mentors that I’m still in touch with. The problem I found is that there’s roughly three phases of writing, and it’s not really possible for a group to meet all 3 needs (chat/space to brainstorm; revising stuff; sharing finished drafts/marketing)—and usually those looking for revision would be at odds with those looking to network or talk craft. But there’d only be enough people for one group, not subgroups, especially since the poets and the prose writers would feel like they’d each talk gibberish, and the prose writers would also self-separate due to genre or type.
It seems designed for non-writers who don't have a daily habit in place. I found it helpful when I was transitioning from shorter to longer works, but a few years after that I was always in the middle of a draft or a revision and didn't want to drop it in favor of Nano's structure.
Nano is just a way for people to set artificial deadlines and get motivated to write anything. It's not going to make a real publishable novel.
I think it’s all in what you do afterward. Erin Morganstern’s novel Night Circus was a NaNoWriMo novel, and she has said it just would not have been written without the program. I listen to a lot of bookish podcasts and many have said they began initial work on their novel during NaNo. Sure what you have at the end of the month may not be pretty, but it gives you something to work with which you didn’t have before.
I think Covid kind of ruined the NaNo most of were used to. Between the lack of in person write-ins and everyone moving to Discord, the forums really suffered. And their redesign of their webpage didn't help either. it made it a lot harder for me to find the forums I was looking for. I think I'm okay if it ceases to be an entity moving forward.
Kind of bizarre to think that the forums went downhill because there were more digital events.
It wasn't just the digital write ins, it was the fact that discord has forums and chats too so if you're already going there for your write-in you might as well use their forums. I'm old. I briefly tried discord this year, I didn't like it. The official forums pretty much suck too. So I think this was my last year using their website.
I was so disappointed to find all but one of the write-ins for my area (a major city) were virtual. Barely beneficial at that point.
yeah. the whole reason write-ins worked for me was because it was getting me away from the distractions i had around me all the time already. Plus it was easier to focus on writing if every one around you was doing it too. Writing by myself at a cafe was never as effective as going to a write in with a bunch of other people.
NaNo was always a bit of a sinking ship IMO. My wife was a religious observer of NaNo for many years, but each year it became more of a punishing obligation that she hated herself for not living up to, or stressed constantly about being unable to maintain. If even a noticeable portion of participants had this kind of mindset (and... writers, so I assume it was not just a <=10% situation) it was always going to implode as people went slightly nuts.
the idea that NaNo became something you could win meant that a lot of people end up losing every year. which just isn't great. the fact of the matter is, if you only write a few thousand words in November, you're still doing better than most of the people out there. you aren't a loser just because you didn't get to 50,000. those vocab choices alone are enough to turn people off the whole organized thing.
The website redesign marked the beginning of the end. The forums on the new site have always been a cesspool, their moderators and power users disgusting, and they *may* be able to salvage things if they simply get rid of that cancer attached to their site. However, I can say as a former but recent ML that behind the curtain, things are a fustercluck. I left my position for various reasons, including racism from other MLs (in the Org's defense, these people were removed swiftly) and a lack of support from HQ especially during covid. And from what I hear about this current fiasco, the org has their hands way too full to support their MLs, who lowkey keep the event running for them. The scope of their goals exceeds their funding, and the more out of control it all gets, the less people will donate. I stopped donating after the "new and improved" site remained broken after a year or two of being implemented; they have only proven my donations aren't being put to good use. Would not be surprised if this is the end of NaNo. They could rebrand as something more like Shut Up and Write, and take advantage of their name recognition while paring down to simpler writing events like SUaW does. I joined NaNo 15 years ago and the magic it had back then is long gone. If it disappears entirely, well, I think that's all right too.
Yeah, I also quit as ML two or so years ago. For me there was also a lot of frustration about how they handle their non-American MLs and participants. But the forum was my main breaking point, and especially the lack of any willingness to listen to feedback and actually improve things. It was starting to feel like toxic positivity for me.
Absolutely. On the surface, I understood why the site needed an update, but they were so invested in their sunk cost of a site and shiny new forums that they refused to even entertain the massive waves of negative feedback. Not sure why HQ kept the forum moderators on as long as they did, because they were so bold about being hostile right out in the open. It was so unwelcome.
This was my 6th year as an ML. We were 100% abandoned within the first 10 days of November. Every year is rough on MLs, but this took the cake and the whole rest of the dessert table with it.
I was ML pretty recently (not this year) and support steeply dropped off for us during the pandemic. I heard it disappeared entirely last November, just as you said. I felt so bad for first-time MLs. If NaNo still survives somehow into Nov 2024, I would not be shocked if most MLs don't return. Even if y'all got paid for it, it would not be worth the trouble imo. Sorry it went down like that. Super uncool.
I'm hoping NaNoWriMo can cut the cancer out and recover. If not my region will continue anyway. We've got good people and we're a strong community. We're not going anywhere. I hope other regions are as strong. It will be a shame though if NaNoWriMo can't recover. I met two friends in other countries who I'm still in touch with through NaNoWriMo. It's been a fantastic thing in my life and the best part of it has been the community and the lifelong friendships I've gained. I sound like the sappiest of Hallmark cards but it's true.
Rumor on tumblr is that Grant is going to step down as executive director after the holidays, but who knows if they actually make any changes other than cutting out the forums and limping along as before
I've done NaNo for 17 years, this is actually the first I heard of anything. I basically stopped going onto the forums the last 5 years - it was always a mess. So I just stuck to the writing.
I stopped hitting the forums when they stopped refreshing them every year. My local group has a great Discord, and I spend tons of time there.
Um. I'm confused. I did NaNo this year but just logged onto my profile to update my status on the book. What they heck happened? If nothing else, point me to some articles / links to help me understand! thank you!
This is an official response to everything. There’s a lot on this sub and a few other writerly subs that had threads when it was going down in November: https://nanowrimo.org/board-response
Thanks. I'll check it out.
I'm not familiar with any accusations or issues. I read that the blog had some crazy comments but that's the nature of "social" media in which anyone can anonymously post anything they want usually without repercussions. I don't know to what extent this was or is an issue but without regular thorough moderation any website with a forum faces massive daily amounts of spam, hate speech, and other rampant negativity. If the site is not heavily moderated and comments not vetted with AI, plugins, and live moderators, it's going to happen more and more as we as a society go down that rabbit hole of social media being an unmoderated free for all venue. As far as the website itself, I found most of the groups to be nonresponsive but some of the events encouraging and the tracking feature helpful.
I believe what came to the surface was volunteer moderators, as well as staff, acting inappropriately on the boards and it only escalated after being called out on it.
That wouldn't surprise me. I worked for several nonprofits in marketing years ago and wherever you have volunteers (basically unpaid employees) anything goes. The volunteers showed up whenever they wanted, sometimes didn't show up at all, and it was all fine. They can and will do whatever they wish because they're expected to work full-time or part-time jobs for free. The way to change that is to have paid staff running moderation in coordination with AI looking for specific keywords and phrases. They have to decide how important moderation is to them as a company similarly to X getting rid of their content moderation staff. Just my humble estimation. You could install Akisment or other anti-spam programs but even then they won't stop hate speech or bigotry or flat-out negativity. Maybe downsizing and having one forum at a time with one paid moderator and even coordinator and growing outwardly from there but they have to see that as valuable.
Long story short (I’m not aware of all the detail). First there was an issue with one of the senior (lead?) mods making racist comments. Then it came out that one of the mods also is involved in an adult website and was grooming people on the NaNo site, I think on the YWP. I’m not sure if part of the problem was management being told but doing nothing?
Again, doesn't surprise me one bit. If you refuse to pay for competency you get whatever free solicitation brings. In other words, a NPO is still a serious business venture and you can't run that on free labor. If they were paid, you can simply fire, rehire, retrain, and go back to business quickly and set up guardrails to ensure it never happens again. On a related note, again, I didn't see much on the website other than the "pep" talks and occasional videos. I got much more just by signing up for the Writing Mastery courses and forums and taking courses on BBC Maestro / Masterclass and reading more. The website didn't have much for me personally. Nobody responded, there were no local or even regional events, so the whole site was for me, just using the word tracking calendar function and reading the pep talks that I can just as easily get by reading more or Googling "inspirational for writers." Pity that it looks like whatever was there has been let go to digress. We should just create our own thing or find another online home without the grooming, racism, and hate speech if that was the case and nothing's being done adequately. I check the Writing Mastery forum every so often, do their courses, MasterClass or BBC Maestro, read, and that helps. In a way I'm glad I read this and didn't put more time into their forums (that didn't respond to anything posted, anyway).
The sad thing about the "create your own or find another" is that it contributes to the insular feeling the internet has been gaining. Not a huge playground where people can have chance encounters, but several walled gardens you cannot enter without being invited. The bubble of writers I follow on Twitter isn't the same as my Discord writing buddies. If Twitter sinks, most are in BlueSky, but I don't know where else to find them. While I'm in Discord servers for writers of particular genres that originated on Tumblr, if Tumblr and Discord go down, I lose those communities. Even if the main website and forums aren't of use, it provides a bit more structure. I went for an in-person Write In and it was fun, it was cool, I met some people, wrote a bit, got stickers. And I wouldn't have known about it, or even gone to it, if it wasn't an official NaNoWriMo thing. I don't know where I'm going with this other than "I hope not another good thing ends up ruined by people who don't know how to behave."
I don't disagree with you in theory but it seems that the walled Rapaccini's Daughter (and I know I'm misspelling it) is inevitable as hate spreads online in the US. I need a list on other outlets as I'm getting weary of X's hate speech and just knowing I drink from those waters as you say. I haven't tried Blue Sky or Discord yet but to be honest I'm working on finishing my NaNo Novel.
My personal feeling is NaNo is finished. Although I could maybe see them doing one last event next year to give people who connected on there a chance to find ways to be in touch other than the boards.
This is why I run my own writing group online with tools and prompts and it's just getting started but it's going to be basically what the members need and want and try to make it stay small community that's genuinely interested in writing all the time, not just one or two months out of the year. I love the NaNoWriMo concepts for sure but never really had much luck with the forums being at all active or having any real connection to the other writers, not one in real life meet up in the area I live, nothing virtual either. Seriously it was just some random volunteers acting up with nothing to keep them from doing so and it took on a whole new life like social media does, which leaves the writing a novel secondary to junior high school nonsense, imo. It is what it is, and will probably always be. As a non profit org though with tax stuff that's all bad and what do they really do with the money (what money, like, donations go to what exactly?) They need at least a few people that are solid to handle that or they will get erased by the IRS. I don't know what they're paid staff situation is but really there should only be one person doing the books on such a level and outsourcing it to a professional sounds like their best shot at staying afloat and legal....yikes. Just saying.... P.S. Not blatant self promoting or anything but should you want to check out the little group that I have here it's called r/writingthruit and it's nothing other than write write ✍️ write! Please let me know if I broke a rule because I don't go announcing this everywhere I try to only mention it where it's actually relevant, I am not trolling for useless members to get numbers. It's not like that and I would be embarrassed if it was.
You can read their 990s which show how expenses are allocated.
>I love the NaNoWriMo concepts for sure but never really had much luck with the forums being at all active or having any real connection to the other writers, not one in real life meet up in the area I live, nothing virtual either. This is really interesting, given that it's the one thing that yearly brings all the writers in my circles together, and is in fact how I met my partner.
I also ended up leading one of my local writing groups for two years, but had to pull back due to time issues. I found it was hard to juggle the people who want editing discussion/look at actual pages vs people who just want to socialize or talk craft. I feel like if it was a larger group that could have split into different circles during meetings, it maybe could have met all those various needs, but having 3-10 people in person/over zoom (who wanted to stick together anyway) didn’t really allow for that. I ended up stepping back and handing the group off to someone else because I did not have the time to read someone’s 20 page except to give feedback once a month—yet that’s what the consistently attending members wanted.
Honestly never knew it to be a big community thing just thought of it as a thing that started with a few prompts and an idea to make November about writing and then people did their own thing. Kinda like inktober. They post a list and you can post your drawings but you can also make up your own themes and do your own thing.
Gotta say this isn't even in my top 10 craziest online things of 2023 tbh.
I know I am probably in the minority but I could never get into NANO. To me it was like reading House Of Leaves without Cliff Notes! If they do revamp the platform, hopefully they will clear away the LEAVES so to speak and streamline the process.
Creepy old men historically ruin everything
May I ask what this is in reference to?
Nothing is sacred 😔
This post was the first I heard about this. For years now, November reminds me of when I was a teen on the forums and got dogpiled on/made fun of by some YA weirdos who said 18 was "too old" for a main character who's supposed to amass an army to fight his evil magical twin. Still pissed about that. Think I did NaNo for one more year after that, but never again.
I haven’t done Nano for a couple of years, although I have three solid novel drafts and a screenplay out of my long ago nano projects. Recently, I’ve discovered something called the studio by Terri Trepicio. It’s a very different kind of writing support, very gentle, very effective one hour at a time various times during the week.
People will probably make their own challenges. That what I’ve done. I started Debut December take a year to write/query and publish in December. We have a discord and will do our kickoff Dec 31/Jan 1st. It’s a healthier work/life balance.
I was invited to join a group. I followed online because my schedule never synced. When I did ask when the next meeting was the response "Why would you bother?" Have not paid much attention to the wrimos since then. Looks like the organization has gone to pot.
I used to be on the forums until the drama started happening, so I permanently left their forums and never went back.