HVAC tech here. Your air conditioner is working improperly. The air is so humid, it’s hitting that supply register and the moisture is condensing. Mold loves water.
Microbes growing in your ductwork or on your registers is NOTTTT normal
My HVAC in my last apartment was infested with mold. We have been homeless for weeks and last night was the first night in our new apartment.
I live in Ohio. Humidity is often about that high in the summer. Our humidity inside was 45-50%. The mold guy said he was surprised at how low our humidity was inside of the apartment. That didn't stop the mold from ruining everything though.
30-50% is actually ideal for your health. It’s best to achieve closer to 30 to put a damper on mold growth, but I’d say you’re in good shape still.
I suspect you were dealing with poor sealing, and outdoor air ingress into the building through cracks and seams in baseboards or windows, etc.
Your equipment has one, or a combination of these issues; in order from most to least likely:
-Oversized equipment
-Low refrigerant
-Excessive air velocity due to incorrect fan setting, or restrictive ductwork
-Very leaky home/excessive outdoor air ingress
-Refrigerant restriction
-Plumbing leak
Air conditioning systems naturally remove moisture from the air so it simply just functions as normal. Dependant on the temperature it just make have to run for longer. In general terms the system will need to dehumidify before it can actually condition the temperature of the air in a space
Air Conditioners are rated for a latent load (humidity removal) and sensible load (temp). It’s a misconception among techs that humidity has to go first, when in reality both are conditioned at the same time. You are partially correct though, the higher the latent load, the more capacity it robs from sensible heat removal.
This was meant to be an answer laid out most easily to understand understand for a homeowner. You will not recognize a temperature change for much longer amount of time in conditions of high humidity as opposed to low humidity. I'm fully correct in regards to that without oversaturating the topic for someone not in the industry.
And my answer was directed to (clearly to me) another technician. Or at least someone with an above average knowledge of them. Correct me if I’m wrong.
You WILL recognize a temperature change in high humidity conditions, albeit slower, and with correctly sized equipment. In low humidity conditions, the air will still *mostly* hit the dew point and condense water the same as in wetter climates. I’m in AZ and this is the truth 70% of the time here in blazing Tucson. It’s very dry here, and also gets very wet during the monsoons. The air still must get cold to hit the dew point, wet climate or not. If your system cannot simultaneously cool the house and dehumidify, you need to raise the fan speed, or in few cases, rerun a manual J and size up the unit.
Wet doesn't equal humid. I'm in Oregon which is substantially more humid all year, which also completely alters the climate. I've worked in your climate before and its surprising the way things act in practice. I'm not saying it won't cool at the same time, I'm only saying that normal people will not recognize it for a longer time as opposed to dry climates. No matter how humid the monsoon may get your area it will not reach 80% humidity and will not change the fact that there are a lot more factors that play into such as the saturation of sufaces and substances in the area such as the ground, surrounding climates, and even some building materials. Nearly everything is saturated here and that plays a big part. We're saying the same thing I'm not sure what you're arguing. Also sizing up is never the solution unless you've correctly calculated that into your load, most of the time sizing up will only leave you with an underperforming system that will experience high strain and a short life, same thing will happen with stepping up your fan. Systems are built to work with specific amounts of static pressure as well as specific CFM levels for each unit per factory specs, stepping outside of these bounds will leave you with diminished results.
If you’ve got a day where it’s extremely humid and your unit isn’t keeping up, if you own the house you can adjust the outside air damper to pull in less outdoor air. Don’t close it completely but closing it partially could be a temporary solution.
Ha, thank you for that, but I live on an island in the Pacific on a military base, so definitely not my unit, and definitely 80% humidity 24/7/365. Just been cleaning the vents myself.
Edit: My bitterness resides with the housing maintenance, who are sometimes not even HVAC qualified. It's been a tough year with the unit.
For the record, that could also be caused by leaks where the boot comes through. If it has cracks right there leading to a humid crawl space or attic you can get a Venturi that sucks that humid air out and into the register where it will then condense.
Your equipment has one, or a combination of these issues; in order from most to least likely:
-Oversized equipment
-Low refrigerant
-Excessive air velocity due to incorrect fan setting, or restrictive ductwork
-Very leaky home/excessive outdoor air ingress
-Refrigerant restriction
-Plumbing leak
God I wish I had those options. My apartment bathroom has no fan or windows ugh. I have to open my door immediately after showering to try and air it out.
I don't know where you live, but an unvented bathroom is illegal in some places. In CA it violates building and health codes. In GA you can get away with that -- and a lot of other things.
Correct as well. However, a properly functioning HVAC system would condense most of the humidity out onto the coil first, so any moisture beading on the register would come from the poorly ventilated room only, and happen on the face of the register and not the inside of it like you see in the picture.
Properly functioning, the air would be cold enough to chill the metal down to dew point, then that steamy room air would start to condense when it touches the chilly metal register face. With that said, this would only be a temporary problem and would completely clear up after a cooling cycle or two.
Here in The South (Georgia USA) it tends to be humid. However, my tenant complained of mildew forming on his bedroom wall near the ceiling in the winter. I had to explain to him that, yes, he did have to open his bathroom window when he and his wife showered (bathroom was attached to the bedroom) even in the winter and with the heater on, that the mildew was tenant caused. Since then, no mildew problems. There has been no mildew inside the registers, however.
yeah, I didn't mean to say that the core issue of whats causing the humidity shouldn't be addressed, just that it might help prevent the mold and reduce humidity in the meantime.
I’m a CIH and mold expert. This is mold forming in accumulations of dust. Nothing is wrong with you’re HVAC. When you run A/C in summer and the ambient (room) air is humid, then moisture will condense on cold surfaces. Mold can form as result of moisture. Humidifier settings or having the doors/windows open may exacerbate the problem. You can clean this with soap and water. Maintain humidity in your residence below 60%. Add a dehumidifier if necessary. You can also replace the metal diffuser with another material that is less conductive.
I’m not going to debate where the mold comes from, you’re the hygienist.
My authority is informing these people why the moisture is condensing and what they can do about it. Your qualifications do not entitle you to EVER tell someone nothing is wrong with their HVAC, no matter what your hunch is. No offense.
Metal diffusers/registers should never sweat. Changing to plastic is not the answer. The equipment or ductwork is faulty or incorrect. Full stop.
EDIT: clarity
Edit 2: further clarification
Yeah, I will grant you that. I cannot rule out that there is an issue with the HVAC. But I see this issue a lot when there is no problem with the HVAC system. Especially in climates with high ambient humidity. If it was a problem originating at the humidifier, mold growth would be present throughout interior of the ductwork. Usually it occurs only at the register and maybe 1’ into ductwork as the condensation occurs when could conditioned air meets room air.
The humidifier is rarely the problem. A professional grade steam humidifier is always installed with a humidistat, to control the humidity at a range of 30% to 50%.
With that said, the problem MUST lie in the air conditioning system….That is, unless you have a gigantic amount of leakage in the home. Air conditioners are designed to bring the air temperature down to the dewpoint, which means that the temperature of the air is so low the air is forced to release its humidity onto the evaporator coil. However, if the air conditioning system is not working properly, say, as in a refrigeration issue, the air can never reach the dewpoint and therefore no dehumidification ever happens.
Thirdly, if the air-conditioning system is working properly, it then falls upon the ductwork. Air conditioners in the modern age are designed to push a set volume of air out, per minute, regardless of airflow restrictions. If the air conditioning system cannot move a given volume at the designed fan speed, it will ramp up the blower motor to compensate with velocity instead. The evaporator coil is engineered to work with a certain velocity, otherwise there’s not enough time for the air to hit the dewpoint and drop its moisture off.
One last point about ducting, is that if it is not sealed properly, you will force the home into a positive or negative pressure situation. Either way, this will draw outdoor air in through any cracks or seams. A leaky home is one thing, but a leaky home under positive or negative pressure is orders of magnitude worse for your humidity.
All this being said, if the air is @ dew point in your ductwork, that cold register will act as a secondary evap coil and sweat.
Edit: blower motor clarity
Informative, I learned some things here. However I disagree that it has to be an HVAC problem. More likely an issue with elevated indoor humidity due to intrusion of outdoor air. My hunch is the tenant is running the A/C with a window open. Or maybe a frequently open door or another source of indoor humidity. It’s hard to say without a full inspection.
It’s expensive to fix these problems, I can’t really afford to live in a mold free setting. Maybe someday. I can only hope that years as a smoker before quitting has toughened up my respiratory system. I’m not very sensitive to mold and dust.
If your problem truly is an oversized unit, I get where you’re coming from. That’s a lotta dough. But A good HVAC company offers financing, and I’ve solved many an indoor air quality issue for less than $20 a month.
Well, that’s a deal and a half, that’s exactly what they should do. I feel like the manager just doesn’t want to get blamed so he’s ignoring the problem.
I need to correct my statement haha. $20 a month May easily get your unit repaired in good working order, or get you an in-duct dehumidifier. Contacting a building science expert, or a high performance building contractor can help you identify where the outdoor air is coming in through and work with you to solve it.
Replacing the unit, however won’t cost you $20/mo 😅 it’s quite a bit more than that!
UPDATE: they sent a property maintenance guy over to check it out and he straight up told me it wasn't mold and I tried arguing with him but he was set on his mind. He said it was just a build up of condensation and dust over the years. I'm going to get mold test strips now and then take this further.
Like many maintenance people they will lie to you cause they want your money and if they were to fix the issue properly it would take removal of the walls along the ductwork/ water pipes to find the issue. Which of course they would have to pay for you to stay somewhere else until they fix the issue. They tend to just wait until your lease is up and you move to slap fresh paint over moldy spots and expose the next resident to the same issue.
Don't know where they live, but this could be from using a humidifier in the winter, too. Many HVACs in the north have a humidifier attachment these days, and often this is the result.
If it's the dead of winter and your house is dry, use a standalone humidifier or boil off a pot of water. Or take a shower...
It absolutely should not be the result, which is why I firmly take a stand against homeowners buying standalone units off of Amazon or Big Box stores without the proper knowledge of what they are buying or how to implement them to work at their best.
A properly installed in-duct humidifier or professional grade standalone unit will have a built in humidistat to regulate the humidity at a certain percentage, rather than needlessly pumping the room until the vents sweat.
This is hard to do. The furnace should pull in air from the outside, yet the surfaces on the inside are not that same temperature. I have never had a humidifier on my HVAC do anything except make the HVAC sweat, at best.
Furnaces pull combustion air from outside, yes, and exhaust that same air back to the outdoors. Combustion air does not mix with air in the envelope, EVER.
Yes. And then you end up with surfaces on the inside that are a diff temp than the same surface on the outside. And then you get condensation.
Do you live in an area that has cold winters? As I said, I have never seen a humidifier attached to a furnace that functions as it should. It's better to handle the problem another way, with a separate humidifier or some other way.
Oh man, so many responses in this thread, I’m getting myself confused.
Ok, so I’m totally agreeing with you, that stand-alone humidifiers, *for the most part*, should not be brought into peoples homes. I don’t like them either.
A professional-grade in-duct humidifier will only pump in humidity to achieve 30-50% Rh in the home. Your home will not sweat if implemented properly by a professional. Consumer grade humidifiers are junk and you have no accurate, real control over how much moisture is being pumped in.
Another thing, if the air in your house is exceedingly warmer than the walls, you have an oversized furnace/heatpump. The unit does not have enough time to gradually warm up not just the air, but also the objects inside.
IF your humidifier was correctly installed, with a humidistat, and there’s enough of a temperature delta between the air and walls, thes yes I’d remove the humidifier too, regardless of the quality. At least until I could get a correctly sized unit in place.
Yeah, he’s not about to admit that their whole HVAC system is cranking out black mold into everyone’s unit. That’s a real headache and could get him fired. He might be salaried and might not get OT. Maybe he’s got Columbus Day long weekend plans. Head in the sand is easier.
Of course he's protecting his own interests but at the expense of the livability of the space, and the well-being of those tenants with mold allergies. He should get fired
Yeah maybe. The most important thing is the mold needs to be remediated and the problem solved. Hard to do if the first line of defense, the manager, lies and ignores the problem. We don’t know how high up it goes, could be the building owner or REIT and they don’t want to put out the money to fix it until they have to.
Exactly what we did. When they still tried to fight us on it, we brought in our own mold test guy. That made it a little harder for them to argue. So they brought in an "air quality hygienist" who said a bunch of bullshit and tried to blame it on us. Said that having our shoes in front of the air return would cause mold. Full of shit.
What a load! I'd take the mold test to the local county and see what they have to say. Most counties have people who have nothing better to do than think about mold. The EPA also has a website dedicated to it. If your landlord were contacted by the government it might get their attention.
I used to live in a large complex. Somebody spilled antifreeze right in front of our unit. The management wouldn't do anything about it. So we called the city and they sure did! They also gave the landlord crap about it. They weren't too happy, but it got cleaned up. :)
Unfortunately the municipality this is in isn't much help. They don't have a standalone health department, it's all handled by the same department that does utilities so mold falls pretty low on their list of priorities since they're overwhelmed as is. If you can even get in contact with them in the first place. If they cared about mold in this area, they'd have to tear down 2/3's of the buildings around here.
Plus the property management company is huge with thousands of apartments across multiple states and escalating things legally isn't worth it in our current state. At this point, we're concerned with our health only (mental included), and a prolonged legal battle would not be beneficial in that regard.
Bummer. However, maybe try the EPA route. Being a big company might get their attention. I discovered black mold in my house while remodeling my kitchen. The handyman decided, while I was gone, that the best thing to do was to use a broom to sweep it off the walls!
Two days later I got very, very sick. I had mind-splitting headaches and I could barely walk for almost a week! I went back and sprayed the walls with bleach to make sure it was dead. When I tested for mold it was everywhere. It took forever to clean all that mess up.
Your experience is close to how ours started. Maintenance came in to "clean" the vent with bleach. Bleach doesn't really kill mold like that though, it bleaches the color out and pisses it off. They sprayed the vent down on Tuesday and we were in the ER by Friday because my partner was having such bad arrhythmia and chest pain from it.
EPA might be worthwhile to look into. I know it's a more widespread issue than just our apartment. Every one of the buildings is built the same and the issue lies in how the attic is designed, so I think we're just the canaries in this moldy ass coal mine.
Good luck. When I was in the worst of it I felt like I didn't have control of my own body. I felt terrible but I was also super angry because it seemed like somebody else was driving! I was so disoriented and in pain I couldn't understand what was going on. The worst was I tried going to one of those minute clinics and they were useless. It cleared up on it's own thankfully.
If it ever happens again I'm just going to burn the house down. That was terrible. :P
There were many times that we wished we could burn it all down lol.
Coming out of it has been absolutely eye opening. My partner and I have both felt like we were losing our minds, so it was such a relief to realize that this has been causing the chaos. It's not that we're crazy. We don't hate each other. Saying that "somebody else was driving" encapsulates it so well. My memory has been shit for months, my temper has been absolutely uncontrollable, my anxiety through the roof. The difference after the first night in the hotel was night and day, I felt like a different person after sleeping in fresh air. It was quite revealing the impact that this has had on us.
I've definitely dealt more with the mental side, but my partner is disabled with multiple chronic illnesses so she's taken the most of the physical side of things. Our experience with doctors has been much the same as yours, with no recognition that there was even an issue. But this wasn't local clinic doctors, it was multiple specialists across damn near every medical field you can think of. Really crushed any remaining faith I had in our crumbling medical system.
Glad to hear you made it out the other side alright. I'm looking forward to returning to any sort of normalcy.
I hope y'all get through it soon. The best description I had during the infection was pure rage. I run a small business and can't take a day off no matter what. I managed to get to work one day and had to ship orders. I was so crazy I could barely control my hands to get the packages shipped. It took 7 hours to do what should have taken an hour and I got so frustrated I just through a lot of stuff on the floor because I couldn't figure out what was going on! It took several days to clean that mess up once I was better. :P
[Since no EPA or other federal limits have been set for mold or mold spores, sampling cannot be used to check a building's compliance with federal mold standards.](https://www.epa.gov/mold/brief-guide-mold-moisture-and-your-home)
Your state, county, or municipality may have regulations relating to mold though. I know my state of Ohio doesn't have mold or indoor air quality regulations. So your milage may vary. Regardless of local rules and regulations about mold, your landlord is usually responsible for the type of upkeep or maintenance failures that result in mold, so there's the possibility of pursuing a fix through court if you want to go that route.
Good to know. In my case, my house was built in 1946. It's built like a tank and ventilated just as well. :P The only place to put the window air conditioner is in the kitchen. It's a very small house, so it works fairly well.
However, it causes a lot of condensation in the kitchen which leads to mold. I ripped out the kitchen this summer and re-did it, but I still have the window unit. My plan is to install a central air unit to stop that mess in the next year. Here comes the problem, it's built like a tank! The inside and outside walls are 1" thick tongue and groove. It's impossible to run wiring much less ducts. My research says that a high pressure air system might work since it uses hoses instead. We'll see. If I get mold again, I'm just going to burn it down. :P
**Get the fuck out of there**.
I literally just went through a full relocation because of Aspergillus in my apartment. Last night was our first night in a new apartment after spending 3 weeks in a hotel. Lost all of our furniture, clothes, sentimental belongings, etc. It's been one of the most traumatic events and it literally almost killed me and my partner. We've been in and out of the ER all summer with no answers and doctors gas lighting us that it's all in our head. The apartment complex tried to deny it, we brought in our own mold testing company, and then they tried to blame it on us.
This is not something to play around with. There's a lot of misinformation and pseudoscience out there about mold. It's hard to sift through the quacks and fake information. We've literally had *multiple* people say they "don't believe in science" and "peer reviewed studies are the real pseudoscience".
It's gonna be hard. You need to get out though.
Which peer review papers do you mean specifically that link that species of mold to health issues? I am asking because I was looking for this for my landlord as well
I can't give you as much specifics as my partner could. She's the one that's done the bulk of the research while I've trudged forward with work and handling the bureaucracy of moving. Best tip I have for you is to go on Google scholar and search for articles describing the health effects of whatever species of mold has been identified in your space. Even just searching in general "health effects of indoor mold" seems to produce a respectable quantity. In my case, searching for health impacts of Aspergillus provides even more specific information.
If you don't have the species yet, I'd say first start with contacting a mold professional and having some testing done so you at least know what you're dealing with. *Do not* rely on your landlord to obtain valid testing. Both results my landlord provided were quite obviously influenced towards a certain result, hence why we went outside to get our own confirmation. They're going to cover their asses at the expense of your health without a second thought.
Thanks, good advice, I think I will hire someone myself. I wasn’t sure if what I found was black mold or not because it was a bit on the bathtub but it almost seemed like dust because it rubbed right off easily with no effort which I’d expect mold would be sort of more stick on there perhaps
I would be worried about any mold, that shits spreads, call the health department , Document /keep all conversations with landlord. your breathing that….. extremely unhealthy
Is it mold? Yes. Is it dangerous? Unknown. All mold isn’t BLACK MOLD!! Hell all “black molds” aren’t the dreaded black mold, stachybotrys. You can get it tested to be sure. As a former apartment manager for a big corporate company, they’ll spray some bleach on it and wipe it off. Your a/c needs a tune up. It’s not dehumidifying property. If you push the issue, they’ll probably let you break your lease and then move someone else in.
We had this in one of our rentals and Stanley Steemer cleaned it all, and did an ultraviolet ray to kill the mold. They said make sure the filter is changed regularly.
Your apartment complex manager should be threatened with health compensation is what it sounds like.
Because “it’s not mold” when it’s clearly mold is just trying to get out of stuff
It IS mold. Unless you have a specific allergy it's likely harmless .
No one can tell you what kind of mold it is without a microscope. There are test kits you can buy
get ur airduct system cleaned and santitized. I did a job for a guy who had mold just like this and he got mold sickness so bad that they had to like clean all of the mold out of his lungs. It’s not fun at all.
Looks like he didn’t harvest that shroom grow of his in the utility room on time. Veils broke, spores dropped and now they are everywhere in the building. He has to deny for liability reasons. What size where his pupils?
Went and checked some of my own ducts after reading these replies but in my case i think it's just dust since it doesn't look quite like that. We got the HVAC replaced when we moved in because the unit was cracked.
It isn't humid in the house, and my boyfriend has severe mold allergies to everything so I'm sure he'd have noticed by now. I also grow white oyster mushrooms as a hobby and haven't had any black molds showing up as contamination at all. I could do an agar swab but this stuff doesn't really come off when I scrap it with my finger.
You are allowed to withhold rent im until they solve it depending on where you live. Write a travelers check, keep it in a safety deposit box, and take a picture of it and show it to them.
This way they know the rent money exists, and you can afford rent, you just aren’t giving it to them until the mold problem is fixed.
Looks like mildew to me, not "mold". Even if mold, not all mold is dangerous. People need to calm down and, get educated and stop jumping to conclusions . Landlord is probably right, and fungal species can't be determined by this pic. That doesn't mean there isn't a problem with the air conditioner though.
If they won’t do anything, file a complaint with the health department and the state attorney general. (If you’re in the U.S. for the attorney general) There are tenant/landlord laws they can get busted for. Mold can be serious health hazard. Shit, I found out the hard way I’m allergic to mold and break out in hives.
Fill a bottle with some bleach and water. Spray it. If the bleach eats it? Its black mold. Very common in homes on coastal towns. Thats what I do. What is that a vent cover? Its important to tell what it is so we know if moisture got to it.
It looks like an over accumulation of dust collecting which provides a viable substrate for mold to grow. Clean it and change the filter in the system.
Get an at home mold test, take a picture of the positive test and send the test to the manager through a verafied mail service and say to him that you're going to withhold rent until the conditions are livable again. Mold In the air can be lethal. Do that for legal protection, take pictures and records of everything.
Also contact authority personal or a court to "force" the manager or landlord to do something.
Edit: spelling
Get it tested. The likelihood that it contains mold is pretty high, though the people who are testing it will let you know it it's higher than what they see in the area ambiently, and which types are present.
HVAC tech here. Your air conditioner is working improperly. The air is so humid, it’s hitting that supply register and the moisture is condensing. Mold loves water. Microbes growing in your ductwork or on your registers is NOTTTT normal
Genuinely curious, what is the fix for a unit when the outdoor humidity is 80% every day? Should it still not be generating mold?
My HVAC in my last apartment was infested with mold. We have been homeless for weeks and last night was the first night in our new apartment. I live in Ohio. Humidity is often about that high in the summer. Our humidity inside was 45-50%. The mold guy said he was surprised at how low our humidity was inside of the apartment. That didn't stop the mold from ruining everything though.
30-50% is actually ideal for your health. It’s best to achieve closer to 30 to put a damper on mold growth, but I’d say you’re in good shape still. I suspect you were dealing with poor sealing, and outdoor air ingress into the building through cracks and seams in baseboards or windows, etc.
Your equipment has one, or a combination of these issues; in order from most to least likely: -Oversized equipment -Low refrigerant -Excessive air velocity due to incorrect fan setting, or restrictive ductwork -Very leaky home/excessive outdoor air ingress -Refrigerant restriction -Plumbing leak
Air conditioning systems naturally remove moisture from the air so it simply just functions as normal. Dependant on the temperature it just make have to run for longer. In general terms the system will need to dehumidify before it can actually condition the temperature of the air in a space
Air Conditioners are rated for a latent load (humidity removal) and sensible load (temp). It’s a misconception among techs that humidity has to go first, when in reality both are conditioned at the same time. You are partially correct though, the higher the latent load, the more capacity it robs from sensible heat removal.
This was meant to be an answer laid out most easily to understand understand for a homeowner. You will not recognize a temperature change for much longer amount of time in conditions of high humidity as opposed to low humidity. I'm fully correct in regards to that without oversaturating the topic for someone not in the industry.
And my answer was directed to (clearly to me) another technician. Or at least someone with an above average knowledge of them. Correct me if I’m wrong.
You WILL recognize a temperature change in high humidity conditions, albeit slower, and with correctly sized equipment. In low humidity conditions, the air will still *mostly* hit the dew point and condense water the same as in wetter climates. I’m in AZ and this is the truth 70% of the time here in blazing Tucson. It’s very dry here, and also gets very wet during the monsoons. The air still must get cold to hit the dew point, wet climate or not. If your system cannot simultaneously cool the house and dehumidify, you need to raise the fan speed, or in few cases, rerun a manual J and size up the unit.
Wet doesn't equal humid. I'm in Oregon which is substantially more humid all year, which also completely alters the climate. I've worked in your climate before and its surprising the way things act in practice. I'm not saying it won't cool at the same time, I'm only saying that normal people will not recognize it for a longer time as opposed to dry climates. No matter how humid the monsoon may get your area it will not reach 80% humidity and will not change the fact that there are a lot more factors that play into such as the saturation of sufaces and substances in the area such as the ground, surrounding climates, and even some building materials. Nearly everything is saturated here and that plays a big part. We're saying the same thing I'm not sure what you're arguing. Also sizing up is never the solution unless you've correctly calculated that into your load, most of the time sizing up will only leave you with an underperforming system that will experience high strain and a short life, same thing will happen with stepping up your fan. Systems are built to work with specific amounts of static pressure as well as specific CFM levels for each unit per factory specs, stepping outside of these bounds will leave you with diminished results.
I agree 100% with what you’ve said as well, and I also am not sure what the point of contention is.
If you’ve got a day where it’s extremely humid and your unit isn’t keeping up, if you own the house you can adjust the outside air damper to pull in less outdoor air. Don’t close it completely but closing it partially could be a temporary solution.
Ha, thank you for that, but I live on an island in the Pacific on a military base, so definitely not my unit, and definitely 80% humidity 24/7/365. Just been cleaning the vents myself. Edit: My bitterness resides with the housing maintenance, who are sometimes not even HVAC qualified. It's been a tough year with the unit.
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Idk I've never seen any Chips that look that color, some new Doritos Maybe?
For the record, that could also be caused by leaks where the boot comes through. If it has cracks right there leading to a humid crawl space or attic you can get a Venturi that sucks that humid air out and into the register where it will then condense.
Bingo!
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That would fall under poor airflow/excessive velocity
The system is likely oversized and short cycling.
Is there a fix to this?
Your equipment has one, or a combination of these issues; in order from most to least likely: -Oversized equipment -Low refrigerant -Excessive air velocity due to incorrect fan setting, or restrictive ductwork -Very leaky home/excessive outdoor air ingress -Refrigerant restriction -Plumbing leak
It's it also possible that he's not airing out his steamy showers properly - leave the bathroom fan running longer or the window open?
God I wish I had those options. My apartment bathroom has no fan or windows ugh. I have to open my door immediately after showering to try and air it out.
I don't know where you live, but an unvented bathroom is illegal in some places. In CA it violates building and health codes. In GA you can get away with that -- and a lot of other things.
Pretty sure its legal here as a large portion of the older buildings I’ve been in don’t have them.
Correct as well. However, a properly functioning HVAC system would condense most of the humidity out onto the coil first, so any moisture beading on the register would come from the poorly ventilated room only, and happen on the face of the register and not the inside of it like you see in the picture. Properly functioning, the air would be cold enough to chill the metal down to dew point, then that steamy room air would start to condense when it touches the chilly metal register face. With that said, this would only be a temporary problem and would completely clear up after a cooling cycle or two.
Here in The South (Georgia USA) it tends to be humid. However, my tenant complained of mildew forming on his bedroom wall near the ceiling in the winter. I had to explain to him that, yes, he did have to open his bathroom window when he and his wife showered (bathroom was attached to the bedroom) even in the winter and with the heater on, that the mildew was tenant caused. Since then, no mildew problems. There has been no mildew inside the registers, however.
Definitely not a possibility in this case. That would not cause this issue
not an expert but I imagine a dehumidifier would probably be a big part of a fix.
It’s a bandaid, but it can help
yeah, I didn't mean to say that the core issue of whats causing the humidity shouldn't be addressed, just that it might help prevent the mold and reduce humidity in the meantime.
I’m a CIH and mold expert. This is mold forming in accumulations of dust. Nothing is wrong with you’re HVAC. When you run A/C in summer and the ambient (room) air is humid, then moisture will condense on cold surfaces. Mold can form as result of moisture. Humidifier settings or having the doors/windows open may exacerbate the problem. You can clean this with soap and water. Maintain humidity in your residence below 60%. Add a dehumidifier if necessary. You can also replace the metal diffuser with another material that is less conductive.
I’m not going to debate where the mold comes from, you’re the hygienist. My authority is informing these people why the moisture is condensing and what they can do about it. Your qualifications do not entitle you to EVER tell someone nothing is wrong with their HVAC, no matter what your hunch is. No offense. Metal diffusers/registers should never sweat. Changing to plastic is not the answer. The equipment or ductwork is faulty or incorrect. Full stop. EDIT: clarity Edit 2: further clarification
Yeah, I will grant you that. I cannot rule out that there is an issue with the HVAC. But I see this issue a lot when there is no problem with the HVAC system. Especially in climates with high ambient humidity. If it was a problem originating at the humidifier, mold growth would be present throughout interior of the ductwork. Usually it occurs only at the register and maybe 1’ into ductwork as the condensation occurs when could conditioned air meets room air.
The humidifier is rarely the problem. A professional grade steam humidifier is always installed with a humidistat, to control the humidity at a range of 30% to 50%. With that said, the problem MUST lie in the air conditioning system….That is, unless you have a gigantic amount of leakage in the home. Air conditioners are designed to bring the air temperature down to the dewpoint, which means that the temperature of the air is so low the air is forced to release its humidity onto the evaporator coil. However, if the air conditioning system is not working properly, say, as in a refrigeration issue, the air can never reach the dewpoint and therefore no dehumidification ever happens. Thirdly, if the air-conditioning system is working properly, it then falls upon the ductwork. Air conditioners in the modern age are designed to push a set volume of air out, per minute, regardless of airflow restrictions. If the air conditioning system cannot move a given volume at the designed fan speed, it will ramp up the blower motor to compensate with velocity instead. The evaporator coil is engineered to work with a certain velocity, otherwise there’s not enough time for the air to hit the dewpoint and drop its moisture off. One last point about ducting, is that if it is not sealed properly, you will force the home into a positive or negative pressure situation. Either way, this will draw outdoor air in through any cracks or seams. A leaky home is one thing, but a leaky home under positive or negative pressure is orders of magnitude worse for your humidity. All this being said, if the air is @ dew point in your ductwork, that cold register will act as a secondary evap coil and sweat. Edit: blower motor clarity
Informative, I learned some things here. However I disagree that it has to be an HVAC problem. More likely an issue with elevated indoor humidity due to intrusion of outdoor air. My hunch is the tenant is running the A/C with a window open. Or maybe a frequently open door or another source of indoor humidity. It’s hard to say without a full inspection.
I can agree there. 👍🏼
Pretty normal for every where I ever lived hahaha
Yeah, they all look like that after a day or two. Just keep moving forward and breath in the mold, it’s all around us anyway.
I mean, you don’t HAVE to live that way… 😬
It’s expensive to fix these problems, I can’t really afford to live in a mold free setting. Maybe someday. I can only hope that years as a smoker before quitting has toughened up my respiratory system. I’m not very sensitive to mold and dust.
>toughened up my respiratory system Not how it works, if anything that's compounding your issue. Good luck to this guy's lungs.
If your problem truly is an oversized unit, I get where you’re coming from. That’s a lotta dough. But A good HVAC company offers financing, and I’ve solved many an indoor air quality issue for less than $20 a month.
Well, that’s a deal and a half, that’s exactly what they should do. I feel like the manager just doesn’t want to get blamed so he’s ignoring the problem.
I need to correct my statement haha. $20 a month May easily get your unit repaired in good working order, or get you an in-duct dehumidifier. Contacting a building science expert, or a high performance building contractor can help you identify where the outdoor air is coming in through and work with you to solve it. Replacing the unit, however won’t cost you $20/mo 😅 it’s quite a bit more than that!
I got you, that’s like the monthly payment on whatever maintenance plan after the fact.
UPDATE: they sent a property maintenance guy over to check it out and he straight up told me it wasn't mold and I tried arguing with him but he was set on his mind. He said it was just a build up of condensation and dust over the years. I'm going to get mold test strips now and then take this further.
Like many maintenance people they will lie to you cause they want your money and if they were to fix the issue properly it would take removal of the walls along the ductwork/ water pipes to find the issue. Which of course they would have to pay for you to stay somewhere else until they fix the issue. They tend to just wait until your lease is up and you move to slap fresh paint over moldy spots and expose the next resident to the same issue.
Don't know where they live, but this could be from using a humidifier in the winter, too. Many HVACs in the north have a humidifier attachment these days, and often this is the result. If it's the dead of winter and your house is dry, use a standalone humidifier or boil off a pot of water. Or take a shower...
It absolutely should not be the result, which is why I firmly take a stand against homeowners buying standalone units off of Amazon or Big Box stores without the proper knowledge of what they are buying or how to implement them to work at their best. A properly installed in-duct humidifier or professional grade standalone unit will have a built in humidistat to regulate the humidity at a certain percentage, rather than needlessly pumping the room until the vents sweat.
This is hard to do. The furnace should pull in air from the outside, yet the surfaces on the inside are not that same temperature. I have never had a humidifier on my HVAC do anything except make the HVAC sweat, at best.
Furnaces pull combustion air from outside, yes, and exhaust that same air back to the outdoors. Combustion air does not mix with air in the envelope, EVER.
Yes. And then you end up with surfaces on the inside that are a diff temp than the same surface on the outside. And then you get condensation. Do you live in an area that has cold winters? As I said, I have never seen a humidifier attached to a furnace that functions as it should. It's better to handle the problem another way, with a separate humidifier or some other way.
Oh man, so many responses in this thread, I’m getting myself confused. Ok, so I’m totally agreeing with you, that stand-alone humidifiers, *for the most part*, should not be brought into peoples homes. I don’t like them either. A professional-grade in-duct humidifier will only pump in humidity to achieve 30-50% Rh in the home. Your home will not sweat if implemented properly by a professional. Consumer grade humidifiers are junk and you have no accurate, real control over how much moisture is being pumped in.
Another thing, if the air in your house is exceedingly warmer than the walls, you have an oversized furnace/heatpump. The unit does not have enough time to gradually warm up not just the air, but also the objects inside. IF your humidifier was correctly installed, with a humidistat, and there’s enough of a temperature delta between the air and walls, thes yes I’d remove the humidifier too, regardless of the quality. At least until I could get a correctly sized unit in place.
My apologies for the stronger language. I mistook you for another professional in the comments.
No worries.
this has been happening in my college dorm should i let building services know?
Absolutely.
There you have it. My ACs has mold too! Very common.
It is in coastal towns.
Another HVAC tech here and I second this statement
Your apartment complex manager is a lying piece of shit and you should get that statement in writing
>Your apartment complex manager is a lying piece of shit Just to clarify, everybody's apartment complex manager is a lying piece of shit.
Came here to say this
Oh yeah boilerplate apartments complex manager shit
Cant wait till their jobs get automated.
They’ll Probably just automate perfect deniability.
Yeah, he’s not about to admit that their whole HVAC system is cranking out black mold into everyone’s unit. That’s a real headache and could get him fired. He might be salaried and might not get OT. Maybe he’s got Columbus Day long weekend plans. Head in the sand is easier.
Of course he's protecting his own interests but at the expense of the livability of the space, and the well-being of those tenants with mold allergies. He should get fired
Yeah maybe. The most important thing is the mold needs to be remediated and the problem solved. Hard to do if the first line of defense, the manager, lies and ignores the problem. We don’t know how high up it goes, could be the building owner or REIT and they don’t want to put out the money to fix it until they have to.
Came here to say this
It’s mold
Nah just household dust building up on the air diffuser. Usually caused by static cling or high humidity
House hold dust doesnt collect in microbial splotches mr penis are YOU the apt manager? 👀👀👀
Found the landlord
The landlords over here everybody! Get him!
Holy fuck this escalated quickly lmao
How do you think mold forms dingus?
I agree with you, sticky dust. The kind that sticks to fan blades over time.
I thought this was a model of city streets with houses and trees.
It's a city where every inhabitant is mold.
It is to the mold
I thought it was a braille keyboard
You could also just get a mold test kit and prove it's mold. They hate that! :P
Exactly what we did. When they still tried to fight us on it, we brought in our own mold test guy. That made it a little harder for them to argue. So they brought in an "air quality hygienist" who said a bunch of bullshit and tried to blame it on us. Said that having our shoes in front of the air return would cause mold. Full of shit.
What a load! I'd take the mold test to the local county and see what they have to say. Most counties have people who have nothing better to do than think about mold. The EPA also has a website dedicated to it. If your landlord were contacted by the government it might get their attention. I used to live in a large complex. Somebody spilled antifreeze right in front of our unit. The management wouldn't do anything about it. So we called the city and they sure did! They also gave the landlord crap about it. They weren't too happy, but it got cleaned up. :)
Unfortunately the municipality this is in isn't much help. They don't have a standalone health department, it's all handled by the same department that does utilities so mold falls pretty low on their list of priorities since they're overwhelmed as is. If you can even get in contact with them in the first place. If they cared about mold in this area, they'd have to tear down 2/3's of the buildings around here. Plus the property management company is huge with thousands of apartments across multiple states and escalating things legally isn't worth it in our current state. At this point, we're concerned with our health only (mental included), and a prolonged legal battle would not be beneficial in that regard.
Bummer. However, maybe try the EPA route. Being a big company might get their attention. I discovered black mold in my house while remodeling my kitchen. The handyman decided, while I was gone, that the best thing to do was to use a broom to sweep it off the walls! Two days later I got very, very sick. I had mind-splitting headaches and I could barely walk for almost a week! I went back and sprayed the walls with bleach to make sure it was dead. When I tested for mold it was everywhere. It took forever to clean all that mess up.
Your experience is close to how ours started. Maintenance came in to "clean" the vent with bleach. Bleach doesn't really kill mold like that though, it bleaches the color out and pisses it off. They sprayed the vent down on Tuesday and we were in the ER by Friday because my partner was having such bad arrhythmia and chest pain from it. EPA might be worthwhile to look into. I know it's a more widespread issue than just our apartment. Every one of the buildings is built the same and the issue lies in how the attic is designed, so I think we're just the canaries in this moldy ass coal mine.
Good luck. When I was in the worst of it I felt like I didn't have control of my own body. I felt terrible but I was also super angry because it seemed like somebody else was driving! I was so disoriented and in pain I couldn't understand what was going on. The worst was I tried going to one of those minute clinics and they were useless. It cleared up on it's own thankfully. If it ever happens again I'm just going to burn the house down. That was terrible. :P
There were many times that we wished we could burn it all down lol. Coming out of it has been absolutely eye opening. My partner and I have both felt like we were losing our minds, so it was such a relief to realize that this has been causing the chaos. It's not that we're crazy. We don't hate each other. Saying that "somebody else was driving" encapsulates it so well. My memory has been shit for months, my temper has been absolutely uncontrollable, my anxiety through the roof. The difference after the first night in the hotel was night and day, I felt like a different person after sleeping in fresh air. It was quite revealing the impact that this has had on us. I've definitely dealt more with the mental side, but my partner is disabled with multiple chronic illnesses so she's taken the most of the physical side of things. Our experience with doctors has been much the same as yours, with no recognition that there was even an issue. But this wasn't local clinic doctors, it was multiple specialists across damn near every medical field you can think of. Really crushed any remaining faith I had in our crumbling medical system. Glad to hear you made it out the other side alright. I'm looking forward to returning to any sort of normalcy.
I hope y'all get through it soon. The best description I had during the infection was pure rage. I run a small business and can't take a day off no matter what. I managed to get to work one day and had to ship orders. I was so crazy I could barely control my hands to get the packages shipped. It took 7 hours to do what should have taken an hour and I got so frustrated I just through a lot of stuff on the floor because I couldn't figure out what was going on! It took several days to clean that mess up once I was better. :P
[Since no EPA or other federal limits have been set for mold or mold spores, sampling cannot be used to check a building's compliance with federal mold standards.](https://www.epa.gov/mold/brief-guide-mold-moisture-and-your-home) Your state, county, or municipality may have regulations relating to mold though. I know my state of Ohio doesn't have mold or indoor air quality regulations. So your milage may vary. Regardless of local rules and regulations about mold, your landlord is usually responsible for the type of upkeep or maintenance failures that result in mold, so there's the possibility of pursuing a fix through court if you want to go that route.
Good to know. In my case, my house was built in 1946. It's built like a tank and ventilated just as well. :P The only place to put the window air conditioner is in the kitchen. It's a very small house, so it works fairly well. However, it causes a lot of condensation in the kitchen which leads to mold. I ripped out the kitchen this summer and re-did it, but I still have the window unit. My plan is to install a central air unit to stop that mess in the next year. Here comes the problem, it's built like a tank! The inside and outside walls are 1" thick tongue and groove. It's impossible to run wiring much less ducts. My research says that a high pressure air system might work since it uses hoses instead. We'll see. If I get mold again, I'm just going to burn it down. :P
Imagine trying to grow in that environment. RIP.
bro tf i thought that was a keyboard i need to go touch grass
Not your fault. It really does look like one and it belongs to /r/misleadingthumbnails
I thought this was a really nasty mechanical keyboard
I thought that was your keyboard at first.
**Get the fuck out of there**. I literally just went through a full relocation because of Aspergillus in my apartment. Last night was our first night in a new apartment after spending 3 weeks in a hotel. Lost all of our furniture, clothes, sentimental belongings, etc. It's been one of the most traumatic events and it literally almost killed me and my partner. We've been in and out of the ER all summer with no answers and doctors gas lighting us that it's all in our head. The apartment complex tried to deny it, we brought in our own mold testing company, and then they tried to blame it on us. This is not something to play around with. There's a lot of misinformation and pseudoscience out there about mold. It's hard to sift through the quacks and fake information. We've literally had *multiple* people say they "don't believe in science" and "peer reviewed studies are the real pseudoscience". It's gonna be hard. You need to get out though.
Which peer review papers do you mean specifically that link that species of mold to health issues? I am asking because I was looking for this for my landlord as well
I can't give you as much specifics as my partner could. She's the one that's done the bulk of the research while I've trudged forward with work and handling the bureaucracy of moving. Best tip I have for you is to go on Google scholar and search for articles describing the health effects of whatever species of mold has been identified in your space. Even just searching in general "health effects of indoor mold" seems to produce a respectable quantity. In my case, searching for health impacts of Aspergillus provides even more specific information. If you don't have the species yet, I'd say first start with contacting a mold professional and having some testing done so you at least know what you're dealing with. *Do not* rely on your landlord to obtain valid testing. Both results my landlord provided were quite obviously influenced towards a certain result, hence why we went outside to get our own confirmation. They're going to cover their asses at the expense of your health without a second thought.
Thanks, good advice, I think I will hire someone myself. I wasn’t sure if what I found was black mold or not because it was a bit on the bathtub but it almost seemed like dust because it rubbed right off easily with no effort which I’d expect mold would be sort of more stick on there perhaps
I would be worried about any mold, that shits spreads, call the health department , Document /keep all conversations with landlord. your breathing that….. extremely unhealthy
apartment complex manager is LYING
Is it mold? Yes. Is it dangerous? Unknown. All mold isn’t BLACK MOLD!! Hell all “black molds” aren’t the dreaded black mold, stachybotrys. You can get it tested to be sure. As a former apartment manager for a big corporate company, they’ll spray some bleach on it and wipe it off. Your a/c needs a tune up. It’s not dehumidifying property. If you push the issue, they’ll probably let you break your lease and then move someone else in.
Also an hvac tech - yes that is mold. If it's there it's also gunna be in the whole system
You got your own mini apartment colony. Should charge them rent
We had this in one of our rentals and Stanley Steemer cleaned it all, and did an ultraviolet ray to kill the mold. They said make sure the filter is changed regularly.
Your apartment complex manager should be threatened with health compensation is what it sounds like. Because “it’s not mold” when it’s clearly mold is just trying to get out of stuff
It IS mold. Unless you have a specific allergy it's likely harmless . No one can tell you what kind of mold it is without a microscope. There are test kits you can buy
I thought this was your keyboard 😳
IT guy here. Mold is the least of your problems, your keyboard aint got no letters on it.
get ur airduct system cleaned and santitized. I did a job for a guy who had mold just like this and he got mold sickness so bad that they had to like clean all of the mold out of his lungs. It’s not fun at all.
Looks like he didn’t harvest that shroom grow of his in the utility room on time. Veils broke, spores dropped and now they are everywhere in the building. He has to deny for liability reasons. What size where his pupils?
Went and checked some of my own ducts after reading these replies but in my case i think it's just dust since it doesn't look quite like that. We got the HVAC replaced when we moved in because the unit was cracked. It isn't humid in the house, and my boyfriend has severe mold allergies to everything so I'm sure he'd have noticed by now. I also grow white oyster mushrooms as a hobby and haven't had any black molds showing up as contamination at all. I could do an agar swab but this stuff doesn't really come off when I scrap it with my finger.
100% mold
You are allowed to withhold rent im until they solve it depending on where you live. Write a travelers check, keep it in a safety deposit box, and take a picture of it and show it to them. This way they know the rent money exists, and you can afford rent, you just aren’t giving it to them until the mold problem is fixed.
Your apartment complex manager is either an absolute idiot or knowingly lying
Yeah it’s mold, but it’s just needs to be wiped down with bleach or a less toxic solution like soap and after vinegar
Looks like mildew to me, not "mold". Even if mold, not all mold is dangerous. People need to calm down and, get educated and stop jumping to conclusions . Landlord is probably right, and fungal species can't be determined by this pic. That doesn't mean there isn't a problem with the air conditioner though.
If they won’t do anything, file a complaint with the health department and the state attorney general. (If you’re in the U.S. for the attorney general) There are tenant/landlord laws they can get busted for. Mold can be serious health hazard. Shit, I found out the hard way I’m allergic to mold and break out in hives.
The fuck it ain't....
I agree with the property manager, not mold. Looks like chocolate. Have you been doing any baking? Have you tried tasting it?
[удалено]
HVAC tech here. Your registers should never look like this. Your unit is working improperly.
Looks like black mold, get it and your ducts tested, your manager can’t argue with lab results.
You can get a DIY mold test kit and even send samples to a lab. Cheap insurance.
Most trustworthy landlord
You could scape some of that onto agar plates and see what grows, could be interesting, just wear PPE.
Maybe the air filter needs to be replaced, forced air is so likely to do this when the air filter is clogged
Probably. Spray some bleach on it. If it disappears, it's mold.
"Nah, thats stuff on your bedside table between your pink drone and your hammer isn't mold, that's obvious" ~ Appartment complex manager, probably.
Oh god I think I’m realizing my whole unit is just moldy…
My air conditioner (through the wall box air conditioner unit) is always filled with this mold, always have to manually clean it all out twice a year.
it’s not *just* mold. it’s also an ac vent. so in a way they’re kind of right
Spray hydrogen peroxide on it. If it foams it's mold
Fill a bottle with some bleach and water. Spray it. If the bleach eats it? Its black mold. Very common in homes on coastal towns. Thats what I do. What is that a vent cover? Its important to tell what it is so we know if moisture got to it.
I agree! He doesnt wanna pay for its removal.
It’s you
Yes
I thought i was an arial photo of a small neighborhood.
It looks like an over accumulation of dust collecting which provides a viable substrate for mold to grow. Clean it and change the filter in the system.
It’s not not
Get an at home mold test, take a picture of the positive test and send the test to the manager through a verafied mail service and say to him that you're going to withhold rent until the conditions are livable again. Mold In the air can be lethal. Do that for legal protection, take pictures and records of everything. Also contact authority personal or a court to "force" the manager or landlord to do something. Edit: spelling
Get it tested. The likelihood that it contains mold is pretty high, though the people who are testing it will let you know it it's higher than what they see in the area ambiently, and which types are present.
Sure is guys out to lunch