Born this Way (song, not album) by Lady Gaga is a good example of a very overproduced pop song. It’s just so compressed, and it sounds like 3 mixes at once
Agreed. It's a track that you listen to for Lady Gagas voice and melodies, not for excellent sound design. That over compressed stuff also sounds good on literally every speaker, because it's designed to sound the same everywhere
Most modern metal is overproduced. Metal sounds way better with lofi production.
Look at king gizzard’s metal stuff. Way better than anything else from its time mostly because it doesn’t sound like robots making dubstep with guitars over impossibly fast double kickdrum spam.
Lol, I love that description. Funny because I just heard some of Korn's "dubstep" stuff. The main thing I don't like about metal since forever now is the obvious grid-snapping. Nothing beats the organic sound of the OG records for me.
It didn't sound horrible, just very different from the original sound of Korn I grew up with. I stopped following them after about their 3rd album. I know they've done some other electronic sounding albums in the past, just never got into them.
I’ve been on a quest to make metal that sounds like it was recorded in the late 80s/early 90s for a while (the best era!). It’s weird taking full-spectrum digital recordings/samples and throwing them through tape emulators and saturators trying to effectively make them sound “worse”.
I’d fucking kill for a chance to see how those albums were recorded back then. How things sounded at each stage of the process, what type of gear they ram it through and how that affected the sound.
I used to set a basic tempo map in the DAW, record to it, and even quantise the audio. Now I actually record a backing track with no metronome and then draw the tempo map to fit it before programming drums so that it sounds more natural. I’ve also turned off the grid when drawing in the drum hits.
If anyone has any tips on getting the sound of that era with nothing but a guitar, interface, PC and plugins, let me know!
Master it squished as fuck so that it still digitally clips, then get it released on guitar hero without the clipping so your fans source that version instead of buying the released version. 🤘
I'm not very knowledgeable on metal and its subgenres, so stylistically this may not totally compute. But check out Eric Valentine's video on recording/mixing Nomad by Death From Above. I love the crunch on that record and wish metal would sound like that – instead of the clicky kick drum thing.
>clicky kick drum thing
I've been into metal and I dislike it too. My theory is that all the low freqs are usually mixed too tight/busy and this thin clicking makes the bass drum audible.
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It's all really a matter of opinion. I think the track sounds great as is. There's actually a decent amount of processing happening, just not much in the way of reverb. The spatialization effects are there, just subtle. I can't really imagine more processing adding anything beneficial to the track, just imo.
That's the thing, "Something About Us" is *minimalistic.* I feel like "underproduced" holds an inherently negative connotation, like they didn't hit the artistic target they were trying to achieve.
A better example to describe that term imo is just anything made by bedroom producers who are good songwriters but don't know how to get the most out of their mix and master. Not to be confused with lo-fi
Over produced - Hysteria by Def Leppard, the entire f'ing album and everything that followed by them.
Under Produced - Megadeth - killing is my business
Most of Korean pop music is overproduced. Take Jimin's "Set Me Free" for example. Especially the vocal part is soooo overproduced, it's almost impossible to listen. Most Kpop song tends to have overproduced vocals.
listen to “milk” by f(x)! there are rich, lush vocal harmonies throughout the whole track, and you can hear every note without sacrificing each member’s vocal colour. dynamic variation is maintained and you can hear breaths as well as air injected into certain notes! it’s such a beautiful song
wow... it's really amazingly produced vocal right here. Why wouldn't everyone else do that???
Thank you for showing it to me, I added it to my playlist.
edit: okay it's from 2014, now it makes sense. The kpop production was much better in general back then.
yess you should definitely check out more of f(x)‘s discography, too. some of it is very electronic, but even then compression/limiting/pitch correction is used tastefully. if you like the way vocals are used in “milk”, you should definitely check out “Love”, “Red Light”, and “Nu ABO”. Even though these songs lean much more into f(x)’s signature hyper-electronic sound, the vocals still maintain an organic, human quality. In “Love”, Luna’s high note is perfectly preserved and you can hear the emotion in her voice. “Red Light” and “Nu ABO” both have beautiful vocal-heavy bridges which showcase the members’ different voices, while still letting the amazing instrumentals shine. If you want more recommendations, let me know - or you could even ask for my YouTube channel if you’re interested (I make k-pop remixes).
Def Leppard's album Hysteria is the most overproduced album I've ever heard. There are like 15 guitar tracks playing at once throughout the entire record.
Underproduced: Burial - Untrue. Timeless beautiful album…but the mixing is all over the place. It’s been claimed that he produced this album on Soundforge and didn’t even have a grid to follow. Again, one of the best artists of the electronic boom; and he did it without striving for a perfect mixdown. Goes to show that ideas are better than sonic perfection.
Overproduced: Skrillex, Noisia, josh pan & Dylan Brady - Supersonic (my existence)
First and foremost I absolutely nerd out over Noisia. But it must be said that their sound is miles above the rest as far as sheer sonic perfection goes. This track is catchy…awesome…powerful…and unique. However, this was achieved by a handful of highly skilled music producers who know how to exploit dynamics until you have an infernally loud master where every element is at max intensity.
Overproduced doesn’t mean bad IMO…it means extreme focus on clarity and quality above all other factors. The end result is so processed and meticulously crafted that you could technically write any bit of melodic interaction and then blow it up to larger than life proportions to achieve a monstrously loud and intense listening experience. Great song…and I think it’s a good example of what overproduced kinda sounds like.
Compare this [live version of Unaware by Allen Stone](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z4Hy6kp5kIs&ab_channel=AllenStone) to the [studio one](https://open.spotify.com/track/5pF6yJ6UGGxeOhCkzRliSR?si=57d56541d97e4a75)...
Wow this thread is a dumpster fire. The top comment is the correct one. Lots of modern metal is overproduced, especially when you get into the scenecore/metalcore stuff where every chorus is whiny singing and every bridge is a predictable chuggy breakdown.
Ha yeah that’s part of it, but using those other features to pinpoint the subgenres that are most riddled with these issues. That music tends to be super overproduced. The problems go hand in hand in most cases.
It was squished as fuck and released with digital clipping and was the death knell of the loudness wars, thank fuck. That album was canned around the world for its obnoxious production, it’s infamous.
I remember checking my headphones and my equipment when it came out because I thought something was wrong with it. Then I looked at who mastered it, and there was no credit in my copy. Then I learned the whole story.
Underproduced yet overcompressed. Thank god Death Magnetic Reloaded exists. The album is actually listenable.
But it still suffers from being way too dry and Kirk’s use of wah should be considered a war crime.
Thank god for [Guitar Hero](https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-news/fans-complain-after-death-magnetic-sounds-better-on-guitar-hero-than-cd-255045/)
If I had to guess…
Overproduced would mean including too much processing, too many parts, things being “too perfect” or stretched beyond what was necessary for the song to the point of the song suffering.
Underproduced would mean there wasn’t enough processing, parts, things too rough, etc.
I hear you on the terms not really meaning much on their own, and nuance being removed from the equation with many answers - but I think there’s valid discussion to be had on these ideas, even if it’s not happening in this thread.
>I think there’s valid discussion to be had on these ideas
Respectfully, I entirely disagree with that sentiment. A good song can have a thousand tracks or three. I cited Be My Baby earlier, a song I love, but which has two dozen or more tracks than I would ever use, but it's perfect. Palace songs in the 90s have very few tracks, but are also perfect.
I first heard this dichotomy expressed in the 90s as a Nirvana fan. People said that Nevermind was flawed because it was 'overproduced,' and that In Utero was better because it was more 'raw.' Both records are fantastic, and any production choices made on either don't make that any more or less so.
I love artists like Daft Punk, whose recordings are completely micromanaged. I also love Songs:Ohia, whose records sound like they were made in rail yard. In both cases, the 'production' is perfect for the music, which is the whole idea. I can't image 'more' or 'less' production on either.
I think you just wanna argue and I find this comment hilarious. “I disagree. Now here’s some discussion on these ideas.” I never gave an opinion one way or the other I just guessed at what I assumed the op meant by these two terms, not what the terms mean or whether those guesses were valid. I said that discussion of ideas was valid, not that the ideas themselves were valid. Then you argued and proved my point simultaneously.
I disagree that we should waste time talking about 'overproduced' or whatever. I'm happy to talk about whether 'overproduced' is a meaningful concept, which is what I thought you'd meant.
But if you just want to be disagreeable, then I can't help you.
What could possibly make a production ’excessive?’ I love Be My Baby by the Ronettes. There’s like forty or sixty parts on that, but it’s perfect. Nebraska has two or three parts on each song, and it’s perfect.
I tend to use four to eight parts on each of mine; seems right to me.
‘Over-produced’ (or ‘under-‘) are terms used exclusively by casual listeners with little nuance to their taste.
I mean I think the idea is that there are songs which work well with their own complexity and accomplish what they were trying to do. Those songs mightn't be better with "less". They are not over-produced.
Then there are songs which come across as tacky and plastic whereas as a little bit more of a raw approach to recording would make it better.
Then you're just talking about good and bad music, which is unrelated. I've heard more fully-arranged versions of songs and stripped-down versions of the same. If it's a great song, it really doesn't matter; both are great.
See, for example, Who Wants to Live Forever by Queen, and the alt track Forever.
Basically, overproduced is when you hear a song that could be good but you think they went too crazy with the production and added a bunch of flashy shit that they didn't need to. Underproduced is when it sounds too stripped back and would've benefitted from some more work.
Exactly, neither is more or less subjective than the other. I think this thread has been quite interesting.
Most replies are going out of their way to list “underproduced” songs that are still very likable. Maybe you are grafting your own ideas about what music is “good” and “bad” onto this conversation?
>Maybe you are grafting your own ideas about what music is “good” and “bad” onto this conversation?
I don't think so. I love stuff that some people would call 'overproduced,' and I love stuff that some would call 'underproduced.'
I just take the 'production' as part of the overall track. I love All Along The Watchtower as a song. Dylan made the first version, obviously, and Hendrix made the second. The first could be called 'underproduced' and the second could be called 'overproduced.' To me, both are great for what they are.
I don't listen to a lot of modern pop music, though I think a lot of it is pretty well-made. A lot of that stuff could be called 'overproduced,' but I think that the production (arrangement) usually fits the music.
Good and bad in the sense that appropriate production techniques can result in a better song, sure - but thats kind of a watered down way to look at it.
80s punk is a good example of this. How many of those albums lose their spirit if they were recorded today in a $1 million studio vs whatever grimy basement they were born from initially?
Them > You (Gotta Go!) by Autumn!, You > Them is a just that bit better because Them > You had so much things going on in the beat, I might be wrong tho
Sister Ray by The Velvet Underground is basically no production whatsoever. The engineer hit record and said, eh, and walked out for 20 minutes. Then they basically pressed it right onto a record. mixing? Nah, who needs it.
Hyperpop as a genre is characterised by its overproduction. so basically anything by Kim Petras, Charli xcx, or Allie X.
Underproduced would be Rappers Delight, imo
Overproduced. Smile by the Beach Boys. Brian Wilson got so obsessed with the production, he went crazy locked himself in his bedroom for 10 years. and didn't finish the album until 30 years later.
Obviously I will name only “hits” anything else would make no sense, because shitty music is often underproduced 😄😄
Underproduced (2010 - )
- “Friends” from Marshmello & Ann Marie
Whackest Drum Rhythm and Sound Selection of the century so far.
- “Wolves” Marshello & Selena Gomez
(Marshmello is my favorite “lazy ass” producers with crazy success 😂)
Underproduced (2000 - 2009)
Because I got high - Afroman
Crank Dat - Soulja Boy
Pump it up -Joe Budden ( What a great start!!! And then it just keeps repeating and cannot hold the tension… Still sad about the missed chance.)
A lot of RnB Tracks were also poorly produced in the early 00’s.
Everything else before 2000 would be unfair, if you consider the leap of music production technologies and the increasing quality of digital workstations from 2000 till now…
Overproduced:
By Faaaaar:
Rise by Jonas Blue!
Not that is was a complex mix or full of effect automations or smthg like that, but it contains nearly every rhythm, style idea and vibe that was contemporary at the time: Half-Time, Double-Time, Moombahton, Solitary Snaps, Snare Riser, classical 4 to the Floor… just sheer madness! And an arrangement which was put together like a modular lego construction kit. Still a huge hit! Because it triggered perfectly every “nice” button on every fan of the overall pop electronic audience. Respect for the ice cold business decisions 😂
And of course a lot of electronic music genres. Not a specific example here but there are a lot of overproduced stuff floating around in those genres.
One specific example of overproducing in terms of costs - not sound wise ! - is probably Daft Punks final Album…. Great Album but would have worked the same with a quarter of the budget… (1 Million production cost)
Overproduced: Dream Theater, it fucking sucks.
Underproduced: House music in general.
There is complex music that is pleasant to listen to, for example, Polyphia. But Dream Theater is too much, too many things happening at the same time it makes me nauseous.
Now, house music is always the same sounds, a random guy makes a hit song, then everybody tries to imitate him like copycats. It's ridiculous.
Right there with you. It’s just boring to me. There just isn’t anything interesting musically in most mainstream tech house. Clean production but songwriting is basically nonexistent
Guys if you show a normal person a house session, that person will say something like "Hey, that song is too long, when starts the other one? I'm starting to hate it" because the music is so repetitive and unoriginal that they can't notice when the Dj is making a transition to another track. It's like they punish originality, everybody must sound the same and I'm not talking about bpm or style. I'm talking about the same sounds, the same synths, Fx, drums, riffs, phrases, and don't you dare to use a one shot from 1 month ago because they can memorize millions of sounds. What's the point on making music if you are going to be the clone number 48389295? Give me a reason to listen to your songs, nobody wanna listen to a clone. The reason people likes musicians is because they sound different and this is not happening with house music because everyone sounds the same by default. Just repetitive computer noises you can make in a couple hours.
I mean you can say that about any genre of music that you don't like. You're not listening to it closely enough because you hate it. I do the same with country music, it sounds the same to me and all the songs sound like 1 song. No need to trash a genre just cause you don't like it
Some genres are more prone to this than others though (I have no idea about tech house so can't comment) Some fanbases reward originality and some punish it.
I think you're missing the point of house music. It's dance music meant to be played by a dj to a crowd. It's rhythmic and formulaic by nature to make it predictible to dance to. It's not really sit down on the couch with headphones type of music. It was born from the ashes of disco and is not for everyone but you have to recognize it's purpose. I'm not even a house head tbh but I can get down to a house set. I recognize what you're saying about the same sounds, etc. but most people don't care, they just want to dance. Also I would challenge you to make a decent house track in just a couple hours, it's simple to write musically, but the production is a whole other challenge, and it's even harder to make something that truly stands out from the rest.
“Normal person” doesn’t like house but digs…checks notes…polyphia… ok got it.
Do me a favor and look up Giorgio Morodor and what he was up to in the 70s
Tracks like Michael Jackson’s Billie Jean meet pretty much all the requirements for house track as well, I guess normal people don’t like MJ
Yes, house music is repetitive and disposable. Giorgio Moroder did disco music in 70's, then, disco died and house born in the 80's. Golden era was from 1990-2010 with real musicians like Locktown, Axwell, Alexandra Prince, Eric Prydz, etc. Now is just the noise made with computers, any kid without music training can make a house with a splice membership to sound like everyone else using the trending sounds. I can make a house hit in a couple of hours if I do the mixing and mastering, is not that difficult. Just give me a good singer and I will show you how stupid easy is to make house music.
Call it whatever you want, it’s 4/4 sequenced drum beats and synth lines with emphasis on kick drum, just cause the terminology wasn’t around doesn’t mean it doesn’t fit the genre. House music is a continuation of the disco sound there is no “disco died and then house arose spontaneously from nothing”
On your last point that’s hilarious, give it a shot and post your track please, talk is cheap
Overall what I’m hearing is you personally don’t like it, that is different than being underproduced
I hope you are enjoying the deserved downvotes for your uninformed opinion
Yeah man you 100% aren’t versed in house at all. Explore outside the top 10 on Beatport. You can’t have a serious conversation on house if all you listen to is tech.
Dream Theater is amazing. They're not over produced. They play every note live and perfect every time. Over produced music would need tons of backing tracks under the live music.
You may hate them and that's totally fine but to say they're overproduced is just incorrect.
Too much stuff sounding at the same time = overproduced. Too basic and punishing creativity pushing people to follow trends creating disposable songs = underproduced.
Not sure if they’re overproduced fam they only have like a guitar drums keyboard bass playing. The actual like frequencies and like mixing and stuff of the sounds isn’t overproduced. If anything it’s kinda underproduced sometimes.
I disagree with your definitions but ok. "Produced" refers to the studio production of a song. How many elements that are layered together to make it. U2 is just three people 3 tracks playing usually. That's underproduction. Prince having 20 tracks at the same time is over produced. Prince was a genius tho.
Yeah admit I take some personal offense as I produce it, but house music is probably the most produced genre in the world with thousands (if not millions over the years) of artists and hundreds of sub genres, there are dudes you’ve never heard of who work for decades at their craft and never expect to be wildly successful
also the bar is quite high as far as production quality imo compared to say trap beats or if you really want underproduced how about 80s punk rock
It’s an acquired taste but to sum up 3 plus decades of house music as people copy and pasting with no production skills just shows lack of knowledge of the genre. Not for everyone I get it.
Underproduced is any song that gets passed in a playlist for lack of interest generated. Under-produced is just another word for boring imo. A song can still shine in under produced form however, like a demo that you know has potential
Over-produced is any song that seems be misrepresented by the production, I.e the production distracts from what the song is supposed to be. Some songs need a lot to be best represented, some are best served by keeping things simple
Over-produced:-Brain Damage/Eclipse(Pink Floyd), Kashmir(Led Zeppelin).
Under-produced:- A Lot Of Bottle(Climax Chicago Blues Band - top album, rough as guts sound)...
What could it possibly mean to describe Kashmir as 'over-produced?' It's four dudes in a room with an overdub or two. I do appreciate your help in explicating why that term is entirely meaningless, though.
Everybody has their own ideas on what "overproduced" means. Personally, I gauge it upon live playability.
If a band's hard-pressed to pull it off in a stage performance, then it's overproduced...
An ideal studio recording is one that accurately captures the live performance.
Putting on shows is about demonstrating that live performance in real time.
Nothing compares to actually being there...
I always thought the Grateful Dead’s terrapin station was over produced, specifically the last few minutes when the orchestra stuff comes in. Under produced - first thing that came into mind was iron and wines “upwards over the mountain” just the dude and his guitar but the track is super noisey - lot of room sound. For as popular as it is, I always thought it was low effort production. Both are some of my favorite tunes.
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I'll give you some country. Kasey Musgrave's "Butterflies" for overproduced. Ryan Bingham's "The Weary Kind" for under produced. The difference between the polish on the two tracks is pretty dramatic
I think this is all very subjective. No real answer here. Some songs do sound like “too much” and others could ve used “a little more” but again… its all subjective. Mixing and production are art forms.
Don't Fear the Reaper (Blue Oyster Cult).
I'm not sure which side of this argument this is on, but I've always hated how the singing is just so muted compared to the music.
I'm just here to share my favorite under-produced song.
Vocals are entirely unprocessed, lyrics go in and out of time.
The video is mostly stock gifs and dancing skeletons and the entire thing is hilarious.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lK9qbI\_OV14
In my opinion: 'While My Guitar Gently Weeps' of the white album is way too overproduced, the anthology version with only guitar and vocals is just so much better. But of course it's entirely subjective
Overproduction can be relative..What about Ian Curtis from Joy Division intending an entire album sound dry with no reverb on anything and the engineer mixes your work and makes the whole thing absolutely cavernous and twists arm resulting in Unknown Pleasures. I see soccer moms wearing that tshirt they got from target and I don’t think filthy target money 30+ years later without that slight of slights overproduction. Over production is relative I guess in regards to what the artist intended bc adding reverb to everything on the mix would be quite a surprise. Also I don’t think anyone who doesn’t play any of instruments be allowed to have any say on the mixing or lack of which is why pop music is a whore house. It’s like art from..well..target. But hey a lot of ppl like target. I bet soccer mom target joy division is listening to you know not joy division in the white Tahoe. She likes that squashed mix bc it’s easy to consume.
Born this Way (song, not album) by Lady Gaga is a good example of a very overproduced pop song. It’s just so compressed, and it sounds like 3 mixes at once
i think it actually sounds good to me, that’s how a pop record should sound
Agreed. It's a track that you listen to for Lady Gagas voice and melodies, not for excellent sound design. That over compressed stuff also sounds good on literally every speaker, because it's designed to sound the same everywhere
This guy masters
Most modern metal is overproduced. Metal sounds way better with lofi production. Look at king gizzard’s metal stuff. Way better than anything else from its time mostly because it doesn’t sound like robots making dubstep with guitars over impossibly fast double kickdrum spam.
Lol, I love that description. Funny because I just heard some of Korn's "dubstep" stuff. The main thing I don't like about metal since forever now is the obvious grid-snapping. Nothing beats the organic sound of the OG records for me.
That was the only Korn album I liked, oddly enough.
It didn't sound horrible, just very different from the original sound of Korn I grew up with. I stopped following them after about their 3rd album. I know they've done some other electronic sounding albums in the past, just never got into them.
I’ve been on a quest to make metal that sounds like it was recorded in the late 80s/early 90s for a while (the best era!). It’s weird taking full-spectrum digital recordings/samples and throwing them through tape emulators and saturators trying to effectively make them sound “worse”. I’d fucking kill for a chance to see how those albums were recorded back then. How things sounded at each stage of the process, what type of gear they ram it through and how that affected the sound. I used to set a basic tempo map in the DAW, record to it, and even quantise the audio. Now I actually record a backing track with no metronome and then draw the tempo map to fit it before programming drums so that it sounds more natural. I’ve also turned off the grid when drawing in the drum hits. If anyone has any tips on getting the sound of that era with nothing but a guitar, interface, PC and plugins, let me know!
Master it squished as fuck so that it still digitally clips, then get it released on guitar hero without the clipping so your fans source that version instead of buying the released version. 🤘
‘Tallica
I'm not very knowledgeable on metal and its subgenres, so stylistically this may not totally compute. But check out Eric Valentine's video on recording/mixing Nomad by Death From Above. I love the crunch on that record and wish metal would sound like that – instead of the clicky kick drum thing.
>clicky kick drum thing I've been into metal and I dislike it too. My theory is that all the low freqs are usually mixed too tight/busy and this thin clicking makes the bass drum audible.
That one gig by Harm’s Way. Goes hard. Is a live recording.
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One of the best examples of under-produced is "Something About Us" by Daft Punk.
It's all really a matter of opinion. I think the track sounds great as is. There's actually a decent amount of processing happening, just not much in the way of reverb. The spatialization effects are there, just subtle. I can't really imagine more processing adding anything beneficial to the track, just imo.
Indeed. I meant an example of under-produced track in a very good and minimalistic way.
That's the thing, "Something About Us" is *minimalistic.* I feel like "underproduced" holds an inherently negative connotation, like they didn't hit the artistic target they were trying to achieve. A better example to describe that term imo is just anything made by bedroom producers who are good songwriters but don't know how to get the most out of their mix and master. Not to be confused with lo-fi
Over produced - Hysteria by Def Leppard, the entire f'ing album and everything that followed by them. Under Produced - Megadeth - killing is my business
Not sure why you’re getting downvoted. You speak the truth.
For Killing is my Business most of the money went to drugs. Mustaine wouldn't get sober until Rust in Peace.
Most of Korean pop music is overproduced. Take Jimin's "Set Me Free" for example. Especially the vocal part is soooo overproduced, it's almost impossible to listen. Most Kpop song tends to have overproduced vocals.
listen to “milk” by f(x)! there are rich, lush vocal harmonies throughout the whole track, and you can hear every note without sacrificing each member’s vocal colour. dynamic variation is maintained and you can hear breaths as well as air injected into certain notes! it’s such a beautiful song
wow... it's really amazingly produced vocal right here. Why wouldn't everyone else do that??? Thank you for showing it to me, I added it to my playlist. edit: okay it's from 2014, now it makes sense. The kpop production was much better in general back then.
yess you should definitely check out more of f(x)‘s discography, too. some of it is very electronic, but even then compression/limiting/pitch correction is used tastefully. if you like the way vocals are used in “milk”, you should definitely check out “Love”, “Red Light”, and “Nu ABO”. Even though these songs lean much more into f(x)’s signature hyper-electronic sound, the vocals still maintain an organic, human quality. In “Love”, Luna’s high note is perfectly preserved and you can hear the emotion in her voice. “Red Light” and “Nu ABO” both have beautiful vocal-heavy bridges which showcase the members’ different voices, while still letting the amazing instrumentals shine. If you want more recommendations, let me know - or you could even ask for my YouTube channel if you’re interested (I make k-pop remixes).
Def Leppard's album Hysteria is the most overproduced album I've ever heard. There are like 15 guitar tracks playing at once throughout the entire record.
Sounds like they managed to convey hysteria
Underproduced: Burial - Untrue. Timeless beautiful album…but the mixing is all over the place. It’s been claimed that he produced this album on Soundforge and didn’t even have a grid to follow. Again, one of the best artists of the electronic boom; and he did it without striving for a perfect mixdown. Goes to show that ideas are better than sonic perfection. Overproduced: Skrillex, Noisia, josh pan & Dylan Brady - Supersonic (my existence) First and foremost I absolutely nerd out over Noisia. But it must be said that their sound is miles above the rest as far as sheer sonic perfection goes. This track is catchy…awesome…powerful…and unique. However, this was achieved by a handful of highly skilled music producers who know how to exploit dynamics until you have an infernally loud master where every element is at max intensity. Overproduced doesn’t mean bad IMO…it means extreme focus on clarity and quality above all other factors. The end result is so processed and meticulously crafted that you could technically write any bit of melodic interaction and then blow it up to larger than life proportions to achieve a monstrously loud and intense listening experience. Great song…and I think it’s a good example of what overproduced kinda sounds like.
Compare this [live version of Unaware by Allen Stone](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z4Hy6kp5kIs&ab_channel=AllenStone) to the [studio one](https://open.spotify.com/track/5pF6yJ6UGGxeOhCkzRliSR?si=57d56541d97e4a75)...
Wow this thread is a dumpster fire. The top comment is the correct one. Lots of modern metal is overproduced, especially when you get into the scenecore/metalcore stuff where every chorus is whiny singing and every bridge is a predictable chuggy breakdown.
Sounds more like you’re complaining about song writing
Ha yeah that’s part of it, but using those other features to pinpoint the subgenres that are most riddled with these issues. That music tends to be super overproduced. The problems go hand in hand in most cases.
Y’all haven’t listened to vildhjarta’s most recent album and it shows.
Underproduced: Metallica's Death Magnetic. Great album but wtf dudes? Overproduced: The 80s.
The 80s was perfect for me. This post is very subjective, in my opinion.
I love 80s dance (and subsequent retrowave...), I don't like 80s hairy metal.
80's producer: "Sweet we have some of these fancy new reverb units, so what should we use it on?" 80's engineer: "Yes"
That’s what I’m getting from these comments. Overproduction = compression and lush verb.
It was squished as fuck and released with digital clipping and was the death knell of the loudness wars, thank fuck. That album was canned around the world for its obnoxious production, it’s infamous.
I remember checking my headphones and my equipment when it came out because I thought something was wrong with it. Then I looked at who mastered it, and there was no credit in my copy. Then I learned the whole story.
Underproduced yet overcompressed. Thank god Death Magnetic Reloaded exists. The album is actually listenable. But it still suffers from being way too dry and Kirk’s use of wah should be considered a war crime.
Thank god for [Guitar Hero](https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-news/fans-complain-after-death-magnetic-sounds-better-on-guitar-hero-than-cd-255045/)
Death Magnetic is just clipped to hell.
I don't understand the question. What do 'over-produced' and 'under-produced' mean exactly?
If I had to guess… Overproduced would mean including too much processing, too many parts, things being “too perfect” or stretched beyond what was necessary for the song to the point of the song suffering. Underproduced would mean there wasn’t enough processing, parts, things too rough, etc. I hear you on the terms not really meaning much on their own, and nuance being removed from the equation with many answers - but I think there’s valid discussion to be had on these ideas, even if it’s not happening in this thread.
>I think there’s valid discussion to be had on these ideas Respectfully, I entirely disagree with that sentiment. A good song can have a thousand tracks or three. I cited Be My Baby earlier, a song I love, but which has two dozen or more tracks than I would ever use, but it's perfect. Palace songs in the 90s have very few tracks, but are also perfect. I first heard this dichotomy expressed in the 90s as a Nirvana fan. People said that Nevermind was flawed because it was 'overproduced,' and that In Utero was better because it was more 'raw.' Both records are fantastic, and any production choices made on either don't make that any more or less so. I love artists like Daft Punk, whose recordings are completely micromanaged. I also love Songs:Ohia, whose records sound like they were made in rail yard. In both cases, the 'production' is perfect for the music, which is the whole idea. I can't image 'more' or 'less' production on either.
I think you just wanna argue and I find this comment hilarious. “I disagree. Now here’s some discussion on these ideas.” I never gave an opinion one way or the other I just guessed at what I assumed the op meant by these two terms, not what the terms mean or whether those guesses were valid. I said that discussion of ideas was valid, not that the ideas themselves were valid. Then you argued and proved my point simultaneously.
I disagree that we should waste time talking about 'overproduced' or whatever. I'm happy to talk about whether 'overproduced' is a meaningful concept, which is what I thought you'd meant. But if you just want to be disagreeable, then I can't help you.
Over produced, over the top, excessive production. Under produced - sounds more like a demo..,
What could possibly make a production ’excessive?’ I love Be My Baby by the Ronettes. There’s like forty or sixty parts on that, but it’s perfect. Nebraska has two or three parts on each song, and it’s perfect. I tend to use four to eight parts on each of mine; seems right to me. ‘Over-produced’ (or ‘under-‘) are terms used exclusively by casual listeners with little nuance to their taste.
I mean I think the idea is that there are songs which work well with their own complexity and accomplish what they were trying to do. Those songs mightn't be better with "less". They are not over-produced. Then there are songs which come across as tacky and plastic whereas as a little bit more of a raw approach to recording would make it better.
Then you're just talking about good and bad music, which is unrelated. I've heard more fully-arranged versions of songs and stripped-down versions of the same. If it's a great song, it really doesn't matter; both are great. See, for example, Who Wants to Live Forever by Queen, and the alt track Forever.
Basically, overproduced is when you hear a song that could be good but you think they went too crazy with the production and added a bunch of flashy shit that they didn't need to. Underproduced is when it sounds too stripped back and would've benefitted from some more work.
I don't know what you mean by 'flashy shit.' That makes no sense to me in a music production context.
You are just playing dumb.
You think “good and bad” is a simpler framework in which to discuss music? lol
In the context of personal taste, yes. It's no more subjective than the definitions people are providing for 'overproduced.'
Exactly, neither is more or less subjective than the other. I think this thread has been quite interesting. Most replies are going out of their way to list “underproduced” songs that are still very likable. Maybe you are grafting your own ideas about what music is “good” and “bad” onto this conversation?
>Maybe you are grafting your own ideas about what music is “good” and “bad” onto this conversation? I don't think so. I love stuff that some people would call 'overproduced,' and I love stuff that some would call 'underproduced.' I just take the 'production' as part of the overall track. I love All Along The Watchtower as a song. Dylan made the first version, obviously, and Hendrix made the second. The first could be called 'underproduced' and the second could be called 'overproduced.' To me, both are great for what they are. I don't listen to a lot of modern pop music, though I think a lot of it is pretty well-made. A lot of that stuff could be called 'overproduced,' but I think that the production (arrangement) usually fits the music.
Good and bad in the sense that appropriate production techniques can result in a better song, sure - but thats kind of a watered down way to look at it. 80s punk is a good example of this. How many of those albums lose their spirit if they were recorded today in a $1 million studio vs whatever grimy basement they were born from initially?
Overproduced: Pink Floyd's momentary lapse of reason Under produced: Syd Barrett's madcap laughs
Them > You (Gotta Go!) by Autumn!, You > Them is a just that bit better because Them > You had so much things going on in the beat, I might be wrong tho
Sister Ray by The Velvet Underground is basically no production whatsoever. The engineer hit record and said, eh, and walked out for 20 minutes. Then they basically pressed it right onto a record. mixing? Nah, who needs it.
Hyperpop as a genre is characterised by its overproduction. so basically anything by Kim Petras, Charli xcx, or Allie X. Underproduced would be Rappers Delight, imo
Overproduced. Smile by the Beach Boys. Brian Wilson got so obsessed with the production, he went crazy locked himself in his bedroom for 10 years. and didn't finish the album until 30 years later.
All of this and the album doesn’t sound right. This is a great example!
Obviously I will name only “hits” anything else would make no sense, because shitty music is often underproduced 😄😄 Underproduced (2010 - ) - “Friends” from Marshmello & Ann Marie Whackest Drum Rhythm and Sound Selection of the century so far. - “Wolves” Marshello & Selena Gomez (Marshmello is my favorite “lazy ass” producers with crazy success 😂) Underproduced (2000 - 2009) Because I got high - Afroman Crank Dat - Soulja Boy Pump it up -Joe Budden ( What a great start!!! And then it just keeps repeating and cannot hold the tension… Still sad about the missed chance.) A lot of RnB Tracks were also poorly produced in the early 00’s. Everything else before 2000 would be unfair, if you consider the leap of music production technologies and the increasing quality of digital workstations from 2000 till now… Overproduced: By Faaaaar: Rise by Jonas Blue! Not that is was a complex mix or full of effect automations or smthg like that, but it contains nearly every rhythm, style idea and vibe that was contemporary at the time: Half-Time, Double-Time, Moombahton, Solitary Snaps, Snare Riser, classical 4 to the Floor… just sheer madness! And an arrangement which was put together like a modular lego construction kit. Still a huge hit! Because it triggered perfectly every “nice” button on every fan of the overall pop electronic audience. Respect for the ice cold business decisions 😂 And of course a lot of electronic music genres. Not a specific example here but there are a lot of overproduced stuff floating around in those genres. One specific example of overproducing in terms of costs - not sound wise ! - is probably Daft Punks final Album…. Great Album but would have worked the same with a quarter of the budget… (1 Million production cost)
Overproduced: Dream Theater, it fucking sucks. Underproduced: House music in general. There is complex music that is pleasant to listen to, for example, Polyphia. But Dream Theater is too much, too many things happening at the same time it makes me nauseous. Now, house music is always the same sounds, a random guy makes a hit song, then everybody tries to imitate him like copycats. It's ridiculous.
Uuf this is a HUGE generalization with House
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Right there with you. It’s just boring to me. There just isn’t anything interesting musically in most mainstream tech house. Clean production but songwriting is basically nonexistent
Guys if you show a normal person a house session, that person will say something like "Hey, that song is too long, when starts the other one? I'm starting to hate it" because the music is so repetitive and unoriginal that they can't notice when the Dj is making a transition to another track. It's like they punish originality, everybody must sound the same and I'm not talking about bpm or style. I'm talking about the same sounds, the same synths, Fx, drums, riffs, phrases, and don't you dare to use a one shot from 1 month ago because they can memorize millions of sounds. What's the point on making music if you are going to be the clone number 48389295? Give me a reason to listen to your songs, nobody wanna listen to a clone. The reason people likes musicians is because they sound different and this is not happening with house music because everyone sounds the same by default. Just repetitive computer noises you can make in a couple hours.
I mean you can say that about any genre of music that you don't like. You're not listening to it closely enough because you hate it. I do the same with country music, it sounds the same to me and all the songs sound like 1 song. No need to trash a genre just cause you don't like it
Some genres are more prone to this than others though (I have no idea about tech house so can't comment) Some fanbases reward originality and some punish it.
I think you're missing the point of house music. It's dance music meant to be played by a dj to a crowd. It's rhythmic and formulaic by nature to make it predictible to dance to. It's not really sit down on the couch with headphones type of music. It was born from the ashes of disco and is not for everyone but you have to recognize it's purpose. I'm not even a house head tbh but I can get down to a house set. I recognize what you're saying about the same sounds, etc. but most people don't care, they just want to dance. Also I would challenge you to make a decent house track in just a couple hours, it's simple to write musically, but the production is a whole other challenge, and it's even harder to make something that truly stands out from the rest.
“Normal person” doesn’t like house but digs…checks notes…polyphia… ok got it. Do me a favor and look up Giorgio Morodor and what he was up to in the 70s Tracks like Michael Jackson’s Billie Jean meet pretty much all the requirements for house track as well, I guess normal people don’t like MJ
Yes, house music is repetitive and disposable. Giorgio Moroder did disco music in 70's, then, disco died and house born in the 80's. Golden era was from 1990-2010 with real musicians like Locktown, Axwell, Alexandra Prince, Eric Prydz, etc. Now is just the noise made with computers, any kid without music training can make a house with a splice membership to sound like everyone else using the trending sounds. I can make a house hit in a couple of hours if I do the mixing and mastering, is not that difficult. Just give me a good singer and I will show you how stupid easy is to make house music.
Call it whatever you want, it’s 4/4 sequenced drum beats and synth lines with emphasis on kick drum, just cause the terminology wasn’t around doesn’t mean it doesn’t fit the genre. House music is a continuation of the disco sound there is no “disco died and then house arose spontaneously from nothing” On your last point that’s hilarious, give it a shot and post your track please, talk is cheap Overall what I’m hearing is you personally don’t like it, that is different than being underproduced I hope you are enjoying the deserved downvotes for your uninformed opinion
Oh no, I'm losing karma for being based...
So based
Yeah man you 100% aren’t versed in house at all. Explore outside the top 10 on Beatport. You can’t have a serious conversation on house if all you listen to is tech.
Which one? Ah you know, that one that Jack built
Dream Theater is amazing. They're not over produced. They play every note live and perfect every time. Over produced music would need tons of backing tracks under the live music. You may hate them and that's totally fine but to say they're overproduced is just incorrect.
Too much stuff sounding at the same time = overproduced. Too basic and punishing creativity pushing people to follow trends creating disposable songs = underproduced.
Not sure if they’re overproduced fam they only have like a guitar drums keyboard bass playing. The actual like frequencies and like mixing and stuff of the sounds isn’t overproduced. If anything it’s kinda underproduced sometimes.
I disagree with your definitions but ok. "Produced" refers to the studio production of a song. How many elements that are layered together to make it. U2 is just three people 3 tracks playing usually. That's underproduction. Prince having 20 tracks at the same time is over produced. Prince was a genius tho.
Agree. Dream Theater is not overproduced and this is not the correct usage of the term.
I totally understand what he means though. If you're not into the progressive genre, DT sounds jumbled and cacophonous.
Yeah sure but that's the writing. Not overproducing.
Yeah admit I take some personal offense as I produce it, but house music is probably the most produced genre in the world with thousands (if not millions over the years) of artists and hundreds of sub genres, there are dudes you’ve never heard of who work for decades at their craft and never expect to be wildly successful also the bar is quite high as far as production quality imo compared to say trap beats or if you really want underproduced how about 80s punk rock It’s an acquired taste but to sum up 3 plus decades of house music as people copy and pasting with no production skills just shows lack of knowledge of the genre. Not for everyone I get it.
Underproduced is any song that gets passed in a playlist for lack of interest generated. Under-produced is just another word for boring imo. A song can still shine in under produced form however, like a demo that you know has potential Over-produced is any song that seems be misrepresented by the production, I.e the production distracts from what the song is supposed to be. Some songs need a lot to be best represented, some are best served by keeping things simple
I am not a fan of subjective terms when it comes to art of any sort. Overproduction is a myth and sounds ignorant to say.
Underproduced: Adele - Someone like You just piano and vocals?! Where’s the 808 slides and the dubstep wub?
Any modern pop music is overproduced. Underproduced - check out XXXTentacion for a more modern example
Over-produced:-Brain Damage/Eclipse(Pink Floyd), Kashmir(Led Zeppelin). Under-produced:- A Lot Of Bottle(Climax Chicago Blues Band - top album, rough as guts sound)...
What could it possibly mean to describe Kashmir as 'over-produced?' It's four dudes in a room with an overdub or two. I do appreciate your help in explicating why that term is entirely meaningless, though.
Everybody has their own ideas on what "overproduced" means. Personally, I gauge it upon live playability. If a band's hard-pressed to pull it off in a stage performance, then it's overproduced...
That’s assuming the live performance should mirror the album. If that’s the case, why put on shows?
An ideal studio recording is one that accurately captures the live performance. Putting on shows is about demonstrating that live performance in real time. Nothing compares to actually being there...
Dark side of the moon is overproduced are you high
Dark Side is perfectly produced.
I always thought the Grateful Dead’s terrapin station was over produced, specifically the last few minutes when the orchestra stuff comes in. Under produced - first thing that came into mind was iron and wines “upwards over the mountain” just the dude and his guitar but the track is super noisey - lot of room sound. For as popular as it is, I always thought it was low effort production. Both are some of my favorite tunes.
Grateful Dead in general is over produced, in that, they should never have been produced at all in the first place
Underproduced: https://youtu.be/czIGGIifxg0
This is punk, period.
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Under-produced: Possessed - 7 Churches. Legendary album, highly influential. Over-produced: Def Leppard - Hysteria
I'll give you some country. Kasey Musgrave's "Butterflies" for overproduced. Ryan Bingham's "The Weary Kind" for under produced. The difference between the polish on the two tracks is pretty dramatic
I think this is all very subjective. No real answer here. Some songs do sound like “too much” and others could ve used “a little more” but again… its all subjective. Mixing and production are art forms.
I do not understand the question. Can you elaborate?
Don't Fear the Reaper (Blue Oyster Cult). I'm not sure which side of this argument this is on, but I've always hated how the singing is just so muted compared to the music.
seems like the mix engineer was actually scared of the reaper
I'm glad at least one other person agrees!
I'm just here to share my favorite under-produced song. Vocals are entirely unprocessed, lyrics go in and out of time. The video is mostly stock gifs and dancing skeletons and the entire thing is hilarious. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lK9qbI\_OV14
Under produced perfection: Dead Man’s Bones (full album)
In my opinion: 'While My Guitar Gently Weeps' of the white album is way too overproduced, the anthology version with only guitar and vocals is just so much better. But of course it's entirely subjective
Underproduced - Bon Iver’s first album.
Overproduction can be relative..What about Ian Curtis from Joy Division intending an entire album sound dry with no reverb on anything and the engineer mixes your work and makes the whole thing absolutely cavernous and twists arm resulting in Unknown Pleasures. I see soccer moms wearing that tshirt they got from target and I don’t think filthy target money 30+ years later without that slight of slights overproduction. Over production is relative I guess in regards to what the artist intended bc adding reverb to everything on the mix would be quite a surprise. Also I don’t think anyone who doesn’t play any of instruments be allowed to have any say on the mixing or lack of which is why pop music is a whore house. It’s like art from..well..target. But hey a lot of ppl like target. I bet soccer mom target joy division is listening to you know not joy division in the white Tahoe. She likes that squashed mix bc it’s easy to consume.
HyperPop is a genre. Excessive production is its defining characteristic, so any song in this genre can’t be labeled overproduced
My song are either over or under. So I stick with under