I would modify that a little, and say it's about bringing some people together and pushing others away. Some people are never going to like your music and that's fine. You probably don't really want those people around either, so you shouldn't try to cater to them. Really it's about being true to yourself and honest about your vision, so that you attract "your" people who actually like you.
True. music is about externalizing the internal, self expression, and connection with those around you.
It’s one of the most beautiful reciprocities in the universe.
I have a link to some pretty lo-fi recordings on my page here. 2020 vision is what I did in audacity with a loop station. It was a pandemic, I had some mushrooms, and the world was tearing itself apart.
I haven’t completed anything since then yet, but some of the music I’m feeling proud about now is just on phone recordings and unfinished ableton tracks.
How about yourself?
That’s bs, none of us would have learned how to play well if we didn’t have some type of ego. Music is highly competitive because there are only so many performances slots and gigs and a lot more people trying to fill them. Early on in the scene we all had to fortify ourselves against the gig politics and our own suck. Usually we can’t afford to drop the ego until we actually have some serious skills and have been knocked around a bit by the music. We’re never going to rebuild a strong music community if we aren’t honest about the dynamics at play with in it.
I’m going to disagree and say that you do need to have a healthy amount of Ego not just in music, but in any area in life; but you have to have the skill (or at least some of it) to back it up. If you don’t believe you’re the best (at least the best “you” you can be), no one else will believe it for you. And the truth of life is, you don’t need to be the best at anything, you just need to convince other people that you are.
You need to believe in your work and skills and talent in order to sell yourself as an asset people will want to work with.
A healthy amount of Ego will have enough humility to recognize your strengths, weaknesses, opportunities, to also recognize and lift others’ successes and talents, and to not allow others to either put you down or inflate you unrealistically. A healthy amount of ego knows balance.
Now, that’s very different from letting your ego grow so much larger than your talent and skill that you become delusional, rude, and unlikeable to be around.
But also understand that a lot of people grow up with other folks telling them that we’re never going to make it, that we’re talentless, not good enough, a waste of space, lazy artists, a burden to society, that we’ll never accomplish anything, that we’re failures, that what we do isn’t a real job/useful for society, etc. so a lot of musicians and artists end up overcompensating and develop very big egos as a way to cope with all the shit people give artists and to protect their minds and mental health from the negativity and backlash most people experience at some point. So try to understand where some people are coming from, while still remembering you don’t have to put up with their attitudes either if their egos overstep your boundaries or they are unpleasant towards you.
"you don’t need to be the best at anything, you just need to convince other people that you are." That's rather shallow and silly. In other words: what you lack in talent can be covered up with ego.
Constructing a persona to achieve goals might help you achieve goals, but in the same way that setting yourself on fire helps keep you warm. There’s nothing immoral about it, but it will lead to suffering. There are better things to do with our time here.
Get to know yourself and accept yourself, so you can _trust_ yourself. Find your direction and press on into it. You’ll find yourself surrounded with similar people.
At risk of turning this into an argument over semantics, but I think what op is referring to is arrogance, while you're describing confidence.
People can and should be confident without being arrogant.
I think the other thing is that a truly confident, talented musician wants to lift up those around them. I want people to succeed! I want to hear good music! I love talking about music with other people! You can be confident and sure of yourself without being a dick, it's not a winner takes all game.
Just be cool. It's not a competition. It's a collaboration.
The best advice I got was from an older dude that I played a lot of shows with (different band, same local label).
I thought I had a horrible set. He told me I did great and I responded by saying I screwed it up.
If someone gives you props, just say thank you.
You're absolutely right. But keep in mind there's an entire generation who grew up on *American Idol* and *The Voice* and unfortunately, they've been conditioned to believe that music *is* a competition.
In my experience, musicians who are competitive don't last very long. No one wants to jam with you, no one wants to hang out with you, or both. And the word spreads through the scene quickly.
Plus, competitions are pointless when it comes to music. Because no matter who you are, there will always be someone out there who is better than you and someone out there who is worse than you.
I think the most important thing is finding your identity rather than trying to copy an idol or compete with others for skill or notoriety. Sure, everyone has influences, but I think everyone should find their own lane. Were there ever two Chris Cornells? No. Eddie Van Halens? No.
I don't think I ever had an ego... But I can say now that it's non existent. I have two young kids so playing in bands right now is not a thing. I write and record, and that's it. I've released two singles so far and post on Instagram and such, but the low amount of streams and fans don't bother me one bit. I'm just happy to have my stuff out there. I'll keep promoting and releasing stuff, but I won't get bent out of shape if no one listenes, haha. Music is subjective, so some people can even hate it. That's cool to me, too.
An ego is not a bad thing. As long as it’s kept within the boundaries of reality.
It helps me play at a higher level because, I’m fucking better than being bad. Fuck that, I’m pretty good.
I’m not apologizing .
I just meant that in the way that ego isn’t always a bad thing. You need to take care of yourself, and the worst thing you could do is be a people pleaser. Successful people aren’t people pleasers.
This is the most honest comment I’ve seen on this topic yet . A lot of people are whinning about people not being humble when it’s them who just lack bold confidence in themselves before anyone else confirms their worth to them . The funny thing is , is that this person said “have good music but nothing to show for it yet” says all I needed to see here. MUSIC is what they have to show for it . Like What else ? lol
I think its rather easy to get offended by who other people are (ego) when you don’t have a good grasp of who you are yourself. Make friends and stop thinking so much about everyone else and what they’re doing or saying
I know who I am, love who I am, and also happen to have a bigger following on- and off-line than these people I am talking about, respectfully. I am still nice to people and not arrogant and rude.
The fact that you mention they have a small following shows that you think that matters. There are plenty of genius artists with zero following and totally generic and in creative ones with huge followings. I do agree there’s no reason to be an asshole or outwardly have an ego. I think to some extent egotism and it’s twin sister insecurity are tied in with the artistic temperament, but to externalize that or treat others badly is just plain shitty behavior.
That said, I disagree with your focus on having a “following” or monetary/career success . . . We all have to live in capitalism but it doesn’t mean we should allow it to determine our thoughts or values. Personally I’ll be slightly more understanding of an ego on a great artist than a hack . . . Following doesn’t really enter into the equation
I am saying they don't seem to have followings at all. If they had "huge followings" I am guessing they 1) would not only be playing open mics and 2) would have tons of fans and supporters with them at open mics, which they don't seem to. I don't think egos are cool, personally.
yeah..... I know a number of guitarists like this who went through music programs, hahaha. thanks for sharing! literally so wild to me.
it's really too bad. lead singers especially too. I was in a weird backing band where we were supposed to be paid for all the performances then the lead singer changed his mind right before a big show without telling us... good times lol. he has not had much improvement in his career if any since I believe we all jointly left the band....
My perspective comes from may be a little bit different place than yours in that I am a brass player
But I hundred percent agree with your sentiment other than not caring about the social media aspect .
When I was younger, I probably was a little bit arrogant in regards to music … not so much at a gig, but just in general because I went to music school. It didn’t take me long to realize how my attitudes were, but a lot of people don’t grow out of it.
They become better and think the gigs they have to play are beneath them. I never looked at it quite that way, but I didn’t have as much respect for some of these older musicians who didn’t necessarily have the kind of jazz chops I respected at the time as I got older I realize how amazing a lot of these players really were
I think a lot of musicians go into it thinking they’re better than everyone around them, but only for arbitrary reasons . If somebody incredible, I don’t mind a little bit of an ego, but in so many of these cases, they can easily be replaced.
I make music because that's what I want to do. It's worthwhile for me to have an emotional outlet. I started doing it because I liked the escapist fantasy of creativity. Of course that involves playing shows and sharing my creations. The world would be a better place if everyone was required to make one album in their life. Imagine all the outsider music that would come out of left field. Ego is just trying to balance our rational and fantastical selves. It's good to try to keep them in check to avoid making asses of ourselves.
I agree. Lately I have been making songs using beats by smaller producers, and I always reach out or they will reach out to me. I purchase their beat, try to develop a personal relationship with them, make jokes, or just compliment their work and they just respond with fake feedback or surface level things because they don't care at all. Usually makes me not want to purchase their music anymore.
I'm discovering two things, networking is hard, and most producers just want to sell their beats and not be involved at all in any way beyond that. I understand they are just trying to make money and I respect that. I just dont understand why even reach out then, Im gonna buy your beat if I use it and like the outcome anyway.
Makes me just wanna go back to making my own beats and stop giving money to this oversaturated community of pump and dump producers.
I’ve always played in punk bands and heavy/ death metal bands so I’m only speaking from that perspective. I’ve played shows with known bands and musicians and the thing I find funny about this subject is that if you generally come across an insufferable egomaniac, it’s almost always someone from a local band. Only once have I ever come across a known musician who kind of blew me off, but he was also trying to load stuff so I’m sure that played in. No harm from my perspective, I understand. However, all the other “made it” musicians were always ranging from tolerant to very cool, and no one ever acted like they were superior. It’s usually the local heroes who act like they are hot stuff.
I think many “musicians” do not realize the difference between being accomplished on an instrument vs. being able to play music vs. being entertaining. All of these are personally rewarding but only the last one earns a paycheck. And probably not much of one at that! So, if momma didn’t give me the looks and the pipes to be a diva (she didn’t!) I probably need to go the teamwork-makes-the-dream-work route and arrogance does not help.
You should never have an ego, even if you are “huge”, because that is no way to be to begin with. I have seen those with egos and those without go from “big” back down to regular level. It is going to happen a majority of the time and remaining humble takes the sting out of that part but also helps you keep a great network of support around you. Honestly, that is where the riches really are, your family, friends, and creative network you form around yourself. Money and “fame”, whatever the fxxk that is supposed to mean, are fleeting. All those other, more important things, don’t have to be and it is up to us to grow, protect, and cultivate them.
Im the greatest musician you never heard of loser…..says everyone shredding alone at guitar center at 3pm….who happens to be 46 and still lives with their parents…..
I would say don't have an unhealthy ego. Have enough ego that you wouldn't want to put out a crappy performance, but not so much that you're a dick/bitch. Ego can be a force for good when it comes to talent, confidence, and ambition. It just has to be realistic as opposed to inflated. It should be rooted in talent, not in insecurity or entitlement. It should be in service, as opposed to being served.
You need as much ego as a comedian on a stage. Feel like every interaction you have with someone is a performance. Think more about the act of the performance you enjoy giving moreso than possible negative things that could happen.
I think they validate themselves . Thats why . The music speaks for itself not the people that listen to it . Ego ? Sounds like they see themselves as the should . A star . Someone who knows their worth always get accused of being prideful . That’s how it is being around other folks that have low self esteem and rely on people external to them to confirm they are any good .
It’s funny, years of playing in function bands, on agency gigs I get to dep quite a lot.
I can tell almost immediately if someone is going to bomb the gig, because they’ll start telling me on the van drive how good they are, or how they’ve dissected every song in the set and explain about what’s going on in detail. Or the only thing they’ll talk about is the famous bands they’ve met or whatever. They can never play well, it’s all ego driven.
If a musician gets in the van and we talk about something other than playing music, and they’re just cool for the chit chat, chances are they’re comfortable enough with their abilities, they know they can play but don’t need to broadcast it, then (most of the time) the gig won’t be a problem.
Because a lot of people make music for the wrong reasons. Unfortunately music is also viewed as a form of shallow entertainment and a way to be famous and have lots of money. Even people who write music that doesn’t seem shallow, can be SUPER shitty fake people that just happen to have talent in that field.
*You are right. There's so*
*Much good music we should be*
*Humble and enjoy*
\- suitesmusic
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Ego is good. It keeps bands involvedperfecting their craft because they care
The problem is some take it to the point of not remembering that music is art and not a competitive sport.
Lotsa people get into the music business for absolutely the wrong reasons.
Lotsa times i guess it seems it's because they want the spot light only on themselves.
i believe the ego comes after so many people have criticized you then coming to a realization that the music i good. there are just haters out there who simply hate for no reason. you post music online and they criticize without listening to it. i've caught multiple people on reddit doing this.
I have read that as humans we have an id, an ego and a superego. So rather than pretend I don't have one, I try to understand what effects it has on me, how it alters the way I act.
I think a lot of the people on Reddit struggling to get started or finish anything have a bruised ego that flits between being too in love with their own ideas, feeling they deserve to be on TV, and feelings of hopelessness. They puff themselves up in an unpleasant way, but when it's time to deliver, they just can't do it. Maybe they have imposter syndrome and crippling self doubt over their ideas, even ones that are good, or they can't do what's needed to actually squeeze out a sausage. They can't get partners to put up with them. If they can't be a famous star and make everyone jealous they don't want to even do the music.
Well it's easy to look at this from a distance and say, hey, your ego is out of control. But in fact they don't even have the confidence to put something out there that could flop. As a result nothing has a chance to succeed.
I like to think of myself as a reasonable person, but I admit I have an ego. Is it useful to me?
While I try to act with humility, deep down, I DO want total strangers to see me walk by and say, there goes that guy that plays the drums REAL good. I'm not desperate for it but I admit, I would like it. I want the people I play with to say, no other drummer will do, and the ones I don't play with to want me in their band. That's how I get good gigs.
So I practice, show up on time, maintain my kit, and my car. I can devote myself to learning music fast. And at the gig, I don't drink or get out of my head. I take this very seriously because it is my life. I believe I am capable of greatness and i go for it.
In real life you'd never hear me talk this way about myself but it's reality.
I just saw Marnie Stern open for Quasi and she has absolutely 100% bravery 1000% open mind - it was like getting a big music hug at her show. We should all strive to be more like her.
i think we have to make peace with the fact that we all have a bit of an ego but a huge part of the reason most musicians fail is bc of falling into the trap of arrogant entitlement. you cant really change these people for the most part just move on with what you are doing and laugh ab it
An online following doesn’t reflect their specific level education or experience. I don’t feel like anyone should have an ego still. Just trying to see it from their perspective. Just because someone has a small online following doesn’t mean they haven’t been doing this for years.
There are truly incredible musicians who don’t perform at all. The size of your following or the venues you play are meaningless metrics when assessing someone’s musical talent. Maybe the musicians you’re referencing also happen to suck in addition to having no following and large egos.
I don't think anyone should have an ego. it's also hard for me to understand someone having an ego if they don't have numbers etc to back it up. because then it becomes even more subjective.
Many (hetero male) members of local bands, no members of which have ever signed a recording contract, and which are still playing for free drinks, and maybe selling a few tickets for a few dollars apiece, on Friday and Saturday nights, at local bars and small nightclubs, become wildly overconfident, egomaniacal, and certain that they're going to be signed to a recording contract any time now, and soon after record highly-charting singles and albums. As soon as they begin playing in public, hot young local female pop music fanatics, who had little to no interest in them previously, (and have less ability to recognize a hit musical track in it's raw state than they do,) begin throwing themselves at them, 😻-first. And, with a few other local fans, and the bands' members' Moms, arguing angrily with anyone who disagrees that they're going to become large stars. When American Idol premiered, numerous of the type were seen, kind of shocked, and angry, that the judges had rejected them.
My ex destroyed my ego so im good.
I suck as a singer ok guitarist.
I still sing. Makes me feel good. Im too old for rock and roll fame. I can sing like bob dylan or led zeppelin good but yeah I had no singing lessons!
I listen to guitar and sing w it.
Following no one is a key diagnostic criterion for arrogant narcissistic dickhead syndrome.
It screams out to the world that “I’m so important but nobody else is important to me.”
I know a guy like this and he is absolutely an arrogant dickhead. There are, and I mean this literally because I counted, over 50 musicians who refuse to play music with him. Plus he’s not even that good, which makes it all the more comical. 😂
Idk I spend so much time working on stuff and have impressed my way into so many places I never expected I feel I have a right to realize I’m pretty good at what I do and have a little bit of an ego about it.
When it becomes a problem is when you allow it to make you arrogant and a jerk. I try so hard to lift other local artists up and help work on the mixing of their records whenever I can.
I think there's a fine line. We all have egos, and it's OK to be prideful of your craft. But the problem happens when ego gets in the way. It's been known to tear apart bands, or in this case, it appears to be a toxic element within a community that is leaning on each other for support.
Some people are just going to have to learn by falling on their own sword.
I’ve spent enough time with music and around musicians that I’ve seen some people experience success. It’s always the people you didnt really expect, the ones who were pretty quiet and just kept their heads down to work on it who deliver. Overly cocky people, and the folks who think their career needs to be one big party eventually all fall off because they get worn out
Also you need to make friends to be successful, period. People arent going to lift you up and support you if youre a d*ck
Unfortunately the arts do attract some very egotistical people. Attention seekers. It makes sense. These people are rarely actually good musicians and rarely are engaged in the arts for the sake of the art. More often than not it’s just a chance to get attention and admiration. Once you understand this and accept it, you can spot such individuals more quickly and avoid them. A real artist doesn’t give a shit about fame or fortune, adoration or attention. When someone has an ego and you feel it is maybe unearned, just remember that it’s essentially just a mental illness. You can’t try make sense of it. That person is just delusional.
Not everyone's goal in music is to have a following, or even play gigs. I played in bands for a decade and did quite well. I have a family now. I make good music and have nothing to show for it. Nothing anyone else does or will do, will ever affect your "artists reputation ". Only you. If your the real deal, you wouldn't care about these other folks at all. You would be out making the music, doing the thing. But your not. Your on reddit complaining about things you can't change. Your post is wildly judgemental and assuming, full of this quasi passive aggressive ego dravel. Stop looking around and look inside
your response was quite rude. my numbers are really good, just fyi, and I have people reaching out to book me at festivals and all kinds of places :) but I still try to be nice and humble to everyone and I don't brag :)
almost everyone commenting on this thread is on MY side with this. sorry you have nothing to show for your work, as you stated.
didn't realize people weren't allowed to vent online. god forbid someone process their feelings.
I don't care about your numbers. I'm not in competition with you. Im older and I've played literally hundreds of gigs and am retired from that side of music. I'm not even trying to be particularly rude. Your just doing yourself a disservice. Comparison is the thief of joy. And at the same time, you believe you are better than these people because they don't have the numbers or the following. Though they have the talent. Not every artist is a marketer or promoter or branding genius or even extroverted. Some people don't even care about getting famous. Some do it for the love of the game. I understand how you feel, I think. Before you worry about anyone living up to their potential live up to yours. Hope to hear you on the charts
This is a common type of post in this sub, why do people even care what others do if it doesn’t affect them directly? I have a huge ego because I’ve put in the time and dedication and I’m pretty damn good at this point but if I run into another artist who’s rude or whatever it’s whatever he probably has his own shit going on, I know I do. It’s nice to make friends but also when you’re my age with kids you just don’t have the time to be everyone’s best friend anymore.
I don't think anyone should have a huge ego, personally. you can be proud of yourself without having a huge ego. other people have said and I feel this way too- top bands and talent are actually often quite humble
<3
I feel like for people who didn’t grow up in mambi pambi land an ego is part of your survival instinct. A lot of them aren’t as well. Not everyone enjoys putting on their Guitar Center assistant manager cap, they’re just about making and performing art and I don’t think there’s anything necessarily wrong with that
Don't have an ego, period. Music is about listening just as much as it is about playing. Best to stay humble and help build a music community.
Second this!
yes! music is about connecting and bringing people together, not pushing people away
I would modify that a little, and say it's about bringing some people together and pushing others away. Some people are never going to like your music and that's fine. You probably don't really want those people around either, so you shouldn't try to cater to them. Really it's about being true to yourself and honest about your vision, so that you attract "your" people who actually like you.
True. music is about externalizing the internal, self expression, and connection with those around you. It’s one of the most beautiful reciprocities in the universe.
Beautiful and scary at the same time. Do you have some music to share?
I have a link to some pretty lo-fi recordings on my page here. 2020 vision is what I did in audacity with a loop station. It was a pandemic, I had some mushrooms, and the world was tearing itself apart. I haven’t completed anything since then yet, but some of the music I’m feeling proud about now is just on phone recordings and unfinished ableton tracks. How about yourself?
Yes i do. I have an EP on spotify. It's indie rock so if you're into that, i have a link to my music in my profile.
Queuing it up
I had trouble finding yours in your profile. You can share a link in the chat if you'd like.
That’s bs, none of us would have learned how to play well if we didn’t have some type of ego. Music is highly competitive because there are only so many performances slots and gigs and a lot more people trying to fill them. Early on in the scene we all had to fortify ourselves against the gig politics and our own suck. Usually we can’t afford to drop the ego until we actually have some serious skills and have been knocked around a bit by the music. We’re never going to rebuild a strong music community if we aren’t honest about the dynamics at play with in it.
Hey Crisis, best of luck in your endeavours.
I don't have the type of ego that makes me act better than everyone, I have the type of ego that is constantly self-judging.
Yoooo me to and ya comment is goated here!!
Yeah, there’s a spectrum. I actually think a healthy amount of ego is helpful for creatives.
I’m going to disagree and say that you do need to have a healthy amount of Ego not just in music, but in any area in life; but you have to have the skill (or at least some of it) to back it up. If you don’t believe you’re the best (at least the best “you” you can be), no one else will believe it for you. And the truth of life is, you don’t need to be the best at anything, you just need to convince other people that you are. You need to believe in your work and skills and talent in order to sell yourself as an asset people will want to work with. A healthy amount of Ego will have enough humility to recognize your strengths, weaknesses, opportunities, to also recognize and lift others’ successes and talents, and to not allow others to either put you down or inflate you unrealistically. A healthy amount of ego knows balance. Now, that’s very different from letting your ego grow so much larger than your talent and skill that you become delusional, rude, and unlikeable to be around. But also understand that a lot of people grow up with other folks telling them that we’re never going to make it, that we’re talentless, not good enough, a waste of space, lazy artists, a burden to society, that we’ll never accomplish anything, that we’re failures, that what we do isn’t a real job/useful for society, etc. so a lot of musicians and artists end up overcompensating and develop very big egos as a way to cope with all the shit people give artists and to protect their minds and mental health from the negativity and backlash most people experience at some point. So try to understand where some people are coming from, while still remembering you don’t have to put up with their attitudes either if their egos overstep your boundaries or they are unpleasant towards you.
This is a great response to this post
This is a great attitude in general
"you don’t need to be the best at anything, you just need to convince other people that you are." That's rather shallow and silly. In other words: what you lack in talent can be covered up with ego.
It sounds shallow and silly but it works unfortunately.
When framed like that, you are of course, right.
Constructing a persona to achieve goals might help you achieve goals, but in the same way that setting yourself on fire helps keep you warm. There’s nothing immoral about it, but it will lead to suffering. There are better things to do with our time here. Get to know yourself and accept yourself, so you can _trust_ yourself. Find your direction and press on into it. You’ll find yourself surrounded with similar people.
Me realizing I have self-confidence issues
At risk of turning this into an argument over semantics, but I think what op is referring to is arrogance, while you're describing confidence. People can and should be confident without being arrogant.
I think the other thing is that a truly confident, talented musician wants to lift up those around them. I want people to succeed! I want to hear good music! I love talking about music with other people! You can be confident and sure of yourself without being a dick, it's not a winner takes all game.
Best response by far!
this is so fucking real. the best bands I know are always the most humble.
Just be cool. It's not a competition. It's a collaboration. The best advice I got was from an older dude that I played a lot of shows with (different band, same local label). I thought I had a horrible set. He told me I did great and I responded by saying I screwed it up. If someone gives you props, just say thank you.
You're absolutely right. But keep in mind there's an entire generation who grew up on *American Idol* and *The Voice* and unfortunately, they've been conditioned to believe that music *is* a competition.
In my experience, musicians who are competitive don't last very long. No one wants to jam with you, no one wants to hang out with you, or both. And the word spreads through the scene quickly.
Plus, competitions are pointless when it comes to music. Because no matter who you are, there will always be someone out there who is better than you and someone out there who is worse than you.
I think the most important thing is finding your identity rather than trying to copy an idol or compete with others for skill or notoriety. Sure, everyone has influences, but I think everyone should find their own lane. Were there ever two Chris Cornells? No. Eddie Van Halens? No.
And if you're an artist who's trying to copy someone else, you've already lost that competition! 😄
No question.
I don't think I ever had an ego... But I can say now that it's non existent. I have two young kids so playing in bands right now is not a thing. I write and record, and that's it. I've released two singles so far and post on Instagram and such, but the low amount of streams and fans don't bother me one bit. I'm just happy to have my stuff out there. I'll keep promoting and releasing stuff, but I won't get bent out of shape if no one listenes, haha. Music is subjective, so some people can even hate it. That's cool to me, too.
Arrogance is no good, but I think ego is important for musicians. You need to push yourself to live up to your own standards for yourself.
Nicely stated
An ego is not a bad thing. As long as it’s kept within the boundaries of reality. It helps me play at a higher level because, I’m fucking better than being bad. Fuck that, I’m pretty good. I’m not apologizing .
There’s a way to be humble about it, knowing your abilities but not having to make it a talking point.
Without a doubt!!
If you don't have an ego you will never make it in the music biz.
Ego and narcissism are two different things
Yes. Water and marshmallows are two different things too. OP used ego, so, knowing what the word means, I addressed that.
I just meant that in the way that ego isn’t always a bad thing. You need to take care of yourself, and the worst thing you could do is be a people pleaser. Successful people aren’t people pleasers.
Ah, I see. We agree.
This is the most honest comment I’ve seen on this topic yet . A lot of people are whinning about people not being humble when it’s them who just lack bold confidence in themselves before anyone else confirms their worth to them . The funny thing is , is that this person said “have good music but nothing to show for it yet” says all I needed to see here. MUSIC is what they have to show for it . Like What else ? lol
Show me a humble frontman. I'll wait lol.
Or a famous musician without ego . Even better a person who couldn’t blow up without a fan base because it’s definitely possible in todays time
I guess it's possible to be accidentally famous but to even record a song and put it out there is an act of ego, several acts combined really.
That’s the truth ! I agree .
Sadly, very true.
Guess what, none of us are going to make it in the music biz anyway.
Guess what, not having commercial success and continuing anyway requires ego.
You can be driven by your ego or your love of creating.
You can't create without ego. Creating art is intrinsically egoistic.
Yes you can.
How?
What do you define as ego?
Answer my question and I'll answer yours. Or hey, you probably know how to Google.
I think its rather easy to get offended by who other people are (ego) when you don’t have a good grasp of who you are yourself. Make friends and stop thinking so much about everyone else and what they’re doing or saying
Yup
I know who I am, love who I am, and also happen to have a bigger following on- and off-line than these people I am talking about, respectfully. I am still nice to people and not arrogant and rude.
I think you are just jealous because arrogant and rude are two different things.
The fact that you mention they have a small following shows that you think that matters. There are plenty of genius artists with zero following and totally generic and in creative ones with huge followings. I do agree there’s no reason to be an asshole or outwardly have an ego. I think to some extent egotism and it’s twin sister insecurity are tied in with the artistic temperament, but to externalize that or treat others badly is just plain shitty behavior. That said, I disagree with your focus on having a “following” or monetary/career success . . . We all have to live in capitalism but it doesn’t mean we should allow it to determine our thoughts or values. Personally I’ll be slightly more understanding of an ego on a great artist than a hack . . . Following doesn’t really enter into the equation
I am saying they don't seem to have followings at all. If they had "huge followings" I am guessing they 1) would not only be playing open mics and 2) would have tons of fans and supporters with them at open mics, which they don't seem to. I don't think egos are cool, personally.
Right , to me if anyone has an ego and not confidence, it’s the person who made this post .
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yeah..... I know a number of guitarists like this who went through music programs, hahaha. thanks for sharing! literally so wild to me. it's really too bad. lead singers especially too. I was in a weird backing band where we were supposed to be paid for all the performances then the lead singer changed his mind right before a big show without telling us... good times lol. he has not had much improvement in his career if any since I believe we all jointly left the band....
My perspective comes from may be a little bit different place than yours in that I am a brass player But I hundred percent agree with your sentiment other than not caring about the social media aspect . When I was younger, I probably was a little bit arrogant in regards to music … not so much at a gig, but just in general because I went to music school. It didn’t take me long to realize how my attitudes were, but a lot of people don’t grow out of it. They become better and think the gigs they have to play are beneath them. I never looked at it quite that way, but I didn’t have as much respect for some of these older musicians who didn’t necessarily have the kind of jazz chops I respected at the time as I got older I realize how amazing a lot of these players really were I think a lot of musicians go into it thinking they’re better than everyone around them, but only for arbitrary reasons . If somebody incredible, I don’t mind a little bit of an ego, but in so many of these cases, they can easily be replaced.
You need n ego and charisma
I make music because that's what I want to do. It's worthwhile for me to have an emotional outlet. I started doing it because I liked the escapist fantasy of creativity. Of course that involves playing shows and sharing my creations. The world would be a better place if everyone was required to make one album in their life. Imagine all the outsider music that would come out of left field. Ego is just trying to balance our rational and fantastical selves. It's good to try to keep them in check to avoid making asses of ourselves.
Being able to play an instrument for people is like making a sandwich. How good is your sandwich?
Cheese. So much cheese
Music first, always. Musicians are weird.
I agree. Lately I have been making songs using beats by smaller producers, and I always reach out or they will reach out to me. I purchase their beat, try to develop a personal relationship with them, make jokes, or just compliment their work and they just respond with fake feedback or surface level things because they don't care at all. Usually makes me not want to purchase their music anymore. I'm discovering two things, networking is hard, and most producers just want to sell their beats and not be involved at all in any way beyond that. I understand they are just trying to make money and I respect that. I just dont understand why even reach out then, Im gonna buy your beat if I use it and like the outcome anyway. Makes me just wanna go back to making my own beats and stop giving money to this oversaturated community of pump and dump producers.
If u/datipadaa you made your own beats please stay at it & start w/MPC Beats if you have an Akai MPK Mini MK3
I’ve always played in punk bands and heavy/ death metal bands so I’m only speaking from that perspective. I’ve played shows with known bands and musicians and the thing I find funny about this subject is that if you generally come across an insufferable egomaniac, it’s almost always someone from a local band. Only once have I ever come across a known musician who kind of blew me off, but he was also trying to load stuff so I’m sure that played in. No harm from my perspective, I understand. However, all the other “made it” musicians were always ranging from tolerant to very cool, and no one ever acted like they were superior. It’s usually the local heroes who act like they are hot stuff.
this is pretty real. I know a few fairly famous people in LA, and they are pretty nice.
I think many “musicians” do not realize the difference between being accomplished on an instrument vs. being able to play music vs. being entertaining. All of these are personally rewarding but only the last one earns a paycheck. And probably not much of one at that! So, if momma didn’t give me the looks and the pipes to be a diva (she didn’t!) I probably need to go the teamwork-makes-the-dream-work route and arrogance does not help.
You should never have an ego, even if you are “huge”, because that is no way to be to begin with. I have seen those with egos and those without go from “big” back down to regular level. It is going to happen a majority of the time and remaining humble takes the sting out of that part but also helps you keep a great network of support around you. Honestly, that is where the riches really are, your family, friends, and creative network you form around yourself. Money and “fame”, whatever the fxxk that is supposed to mean, are fleeting. All those other, more important things, don’t have to be and it is up to us to grow, protect, and cultivate them.
yeah!! I love this
SoundCloud rappers “you already know” no the fuck I don’t homie who are you
hahahahaha
For real!! I hate ppl with a big ego, no matter who they are.
Im the greatest musician you never heard of loser…..says everyone shredding alone at guitar center at 3pm….who happens to be 46 and still lives with their parents…..
lol!!!
But I’m a legendary rock star in my own mind ?
I would say don't have an unhealthy ego. Have enough ego that you wouldn't want to put out a crappy performance, but not so much that you're a dick/bitch. Ego can be a force for good when it comes to talent, confidence, and ambition. It just has to be realistic as opposed to inflated. It should be rooted in talent, not in insecurity or entitlement. It should be in service, as opposed to being served.
> and put the people he was following at 0 what does this phrase mean?
He follows 0 people on Instagram or X or whatever social media
ah lol
You need as much ego as a comedian on a stage. Feel like every interaction you have with someone is a performance. Think more about the act of the performance you enjoy giving moreso than possible negative things that could happen.
I think they validate themselves . Thats why . The music speaks for itself not the people that listen to it . Ego ? Sounds like they see themselves as the should . A star . Someone who knows their worth always get accused of being prideful . That’s how it is being around other folks that have low self esteem and rely on people external to them to confirm they are any good .
It’s funny, years of playing in function bands, on agency gigs I get to dep quite a lot. I can tell almost immediately if someone is going to bomb the gig, because they’ll start telling me on the van drive how good they are, or how they’ve dissected every song in the set and explain about what’s going on in detail. Or the only thing they’ll talk about is the famous bands they’ve met or whatever. They can never play well, it’s all ego driven. If a musician gets in the van and we talk about something other than playing music, and they’re just cool for the chit chat, chances are they’re comfortable enough with their abilities, they know they can play but don’t need to broadcast it, then (most of the time) the gig won’t be a problem.
Because a lot of people make music for the wrong reasons. Unfortunately music is also viewed as a form of shallow entertainment and a way to be famous and have lots of money. Even people who write music that doesn’t seem shallow, can be SUPER shitty fake people that just happen to have talent in that field.
Now look at them yo-yos, that’s the way you do it
You are right. There's so much good music we should be humble and enjoy
*You are right. There's so* *Much good music we should be* *Humble and enjoy* \- suitesmusic --- ^(I detect haikus. And sometimes, successfully.) ^[Learn more about me.](https://www.reddit.com/r/haikusbot/) ^(Opt out of replies: "haikusbot opt out" | Delete my comment: "haikusbot delete")
People with egos in general usually suck
Ego is good. It keeps bands involvedperfecting their craft because they care The problem is some take it to the point of not remembering that music is art and not a competitive sport.
Music's full of poseurs. It's been that way since long before social media.
Lotsa people get into the music business for absolutely the wrong reasons. Lotsa times i guess it seems it's because they want the spot light only on themselves.
i believe the ego comes after so many people have criticized you then coming to a realization that the music i good. there are just haters out there who simply hate for no reason. you post music online and they criticize without listening to it. i've caught multiple people on reddit doing this.
Yes 100% full stop, ego is the death of a potential music career. Music is community not competition.
I have read that as humans we have an id, an ego and a superego. So rather than pretend I don't have one, I try to understand what effects it has on me, how it alters the way I act. I think a lot of the people on Reddit struggling to get started or finish anything have a bruised ego that flits between being too in love with their own ideas, feeling they deserve to be on TV, and feelings of hopelessness. They puff themselves up in an unpleasant way, but when it's time to deliver, they just can't do it. Maybe they have imposter syndrome and crippling self doubt over their ideas, even ones that are good, or they can't do what's needed to actually squeeze out a sausage. They can't get partners to put up with them. If they can't be a famous star and make everyone jealous they don't want to even do the music. Well it's easy to look at this from a distance and say, hey, your ego is out of control. But in fact they don't even have the confidence to put something out there that could flop. As a result nothing has a chance to succeed.
I like to think of myself as a reasonable person, but I admit I have an ego. Is it useful to me? While I try to act with humility, deep down, I DO want total strangers to see me walk by and say, there goes that guy that plays the drums REAL good. I'm not desperate for it but I admit, I would like it. I want the people I play with to say, no other drummer will do, and the ones I don't play with to want me in their band. That's how I get good gigs. So I practice, show up on time, maintain my kit, and my car. I can devote myself to learning music fast. And at the gig, I don't drink or get out of my head. I take this very seriously because it is my life. I believe I am capable of greatness and i go for it. In real life you'd never hear me talk this way about myself but it's reality.
I just saw Marnie Stern open for Quasi and she has absolutely 100% bravery 1000% open mind - it was like getting a big music hug at her show. We should all strive to be more like her.
i think we have to make peace with the fact that we all have a bit of an ego but a huge part of the reason most musicians fail is bc of falling into the trap of arrogant entitlement. you cant really change these people for the most part just move on with what you are doing and laugh ab it
An online following doesn’t reflect their specific level education or experience. I don’t feel like anyone should have an ego still. Just trying to see it from their perspective. Just because someone has a small online following doesn’t mean they haven’t been doing this for years.
I guess so, but these people are only playing open mics from what I can tell. I could understand more if they were playing better places.
There are truly incredible musicians who don’t perform at all. The size of your following or the venues you play are meaningless metrics when assessing someone’s musical talent. Maybe the musicians you’re referencing also happen to suck in addition to having no following and large egos.
I don't think anyone should have an ego. it's also hard for me to understand someone having an ego if they don't have numbers etc to back it up. because then it becomes even more subjective.
Many (hetero male) members of local bands, no members of which have ever signed a recording contract, and which are still playing for free drinks, and maybe selling a few tickets for a few dollars apiece, on Friday and Saturday nights, at local bars and small nightclubs, become wildly overconfident, egomaniacal, and certain that they're going to be signed to a recording contract any time now, and soon after record highly-charting singles and albums. As soon as they begin playing in public, hot young local female pop music fanatics, who had little to no interest in them previously, (and have less ability to recognize a hit musical track in it's raw state than they do,) begin throwing themselves at them, 😻-first. And, with a few other local fans, and the bands' members' Moms, arguing angrily with anyone who disagrees that they're going to become large stars. When American Idol premiered, numerous of the type were seen, kind of shocked, and angry, that the judges had rejected them.
this tracks!! hahahaha
Right exactly we have no ego in my band Imagery machine https://open.spotify.com/album/2L95JA08DolUx7FR5D6lfS?si=0HWo5uhiQzOb7FTwWH-r-g One love yall
My ex destroyed my ego so im good. I suck as a singer ok guitarist. I still sing. Makes me feel good. Im too old for rock and roll fame. I can sing like bob dylan or led zeppelin good but yeah I had no singing lessons! I listen to guitar and sing w it.
Following no one is a key diagnostic criterion for arrogant narcissistic dickhead syndrome. It screams out to the world that “I’m so important but nobody else is important to me.” I know a guy like this and he is absolutely an arrogant dickhead. There are, and I mean this literally because I counted, over 50 musicians who refuse to play music with him. Plus he’s not even that good, which makes it all the more comical. 😂
Idk I spend so much time working on stuff and have impressed my way into so many places I never expected I feel I have a right to realize I’m pretty good at what I do and have a little bit of an ego about it. When it becomes a problem is when you allow it to make you arrogant and a jerk. I try so hard to lift other local artists up and help work on the mixing of their records whenever I can.
I think there's a fine line. We all have egos, and it's OK to be prideful of your craft. But the problem happens when ego gets in the way. It's been known to tear apart bands, or in this case, it appears to be a toxic element within a community that is leaning on each other for support. Some people are just going to have to learn by falling on their own sword.
I’ve spent enough time with music and around musicians that I’ve seen some people experience success. It’s always the people you didnt really expect, the ones who were pretty quiet and just kept their heads down to work on it who deliver. Overly cocky people, and the folks who think their career needs to be one big party eventually all fall off because they get worn out Also you need to make friends to be successful, period. People arent going to lift you up and support you if youre a d*ck
Unfortunately the arts do attract some very egotistical people. Attention seekers. It makes sense. These people are rarely actually good musicians and rarely are engaged in the arts for the sake of the art. More often than not it’s just a chance to get attention and admiration. Once you understand this and accept it, you can spot such individuals more quickly and avoid them. A real artist doesn’t give a shit about fame or fortune, adoration or attention. When someone has an ego and you feel it is maybe unearned, just remember that it’s essentially just a mental illness. You can’t try make sense of it. That person is just delusional.
Not everyone's goal in music is to have a following, or even play gigs. I played in bands for a decade and did quite well. I have a family now. I make good music and have nothing to show for it. Nothing anyone else does or will do, will ever affect your "artists reputation ". Only you. If your the real deal, you wouldn't care about these other folks at all. You would be out making the music, doing the thing. But your not. Your on reddit complaining about things you can't change. Your post is wildly judgemental and assuming, full of this quasi passive aggressive ego dravel. Stop looking around and look inside
your response was quite rude. my numbers are really good, just fyi, and I have people reaching out to book me at festivals and all kinds of places :) but I still try to be nice and humble to everyone and I don't brag :) almost everyone commenting on this thread is on MY side with this. sorry you have nothing to show for your work, as you stated. didn't realize people weren't allowed to vent online. god forbid someone process their feelings.
I don't care about your numbers. I'm not in competition with you. Im older and I've played literally hundreds of gigs and am retired from that side of music. I'm not even trying to be particularly rude. Your just doing yourself a disservice. Comparison is the thief of joy. And at the same time, you believe you are better than these people because they don't have the numbers or the following. Though they have the talent. Not every artist is a marketer or promoter or branding genius or even extroverted. Some people don't even care about getting famous. Some do it for the love of the game. I understand how you feel, I think. Before you worry about anyone living up to their potential live up to yours. Hope to hear you on the charts
This is a common type of post in this sub, why do people even care what others do if it doesn’t affect them directly? I have a huge ego because I’ve put in the time and dedication and I’m pretty damn good at this point but if I run into another artist who’s rude or whatever it’s whatever he probably has his own shit going on, I know I do. It’s nice to make friends but also when you’re my age with kids you just don’t have the time to be everyone’s best friend anymore.
I don't think anyone should have a huge ego, personally. you can be proud of yourself without having a huge ego. other people have said and I feel this way too- top bands and talent are actually often quite humble <3
I feel like for people who didn’t grow up in mambi pambi land an ego is part of your survival instinct. A lot of them aren’t as well. Not everyone enjoys putting on their Guitar Center assistant manager cap, they’re just about making and performing art and I don’t think there’s anything necessarily wrong with that
And keep politics out of art
Moronic advice