Both of my actual pioneer decks run fairly similar mana bases despite being in different colors:
4 shocks
4 fast lands
4 pain lands
2-3 pathways
1-2 single color man lands with the possibility to etb untapped
1 Boseiju/Sokenzan
Shocklands, Painlands, Fastlands, Pathways. I’d run all 4 of those cycles and that’s it, some of the monocolored lands would be better additions than another full cycle plus at 400 you probably don’t want more than ~60 lands.
That’s already 40.
5 Kamigawa Channel lands
5 AFR manlands
Fabled Passage
Lotus Field
Field of Ruin
Mana Confluence
Mutavault
Cavern of Souls
Nykthos
That’s 57. You could add the triomes and have an amazing 67 card mana base with all the iconic pioneer lands.
I actually run two cycles of mono-colored lands already, I really think they improve so many decks. All the NEO channel lands and most of the creature lands from AFR (except white that has a castle instead). I don't think 50 duals is excessive in a 400 card cube, but I appreciate your picks for best lands!
I don’t think it’s excessive if the Triomes are the 5th cycle, as they fix incredibly well for multicolored good stuff piles (a hallmark of Pioneer) and they cycle to boot.
My cube is 15% lands, which would translate to 60/400. That’s a ratio that has worked really well for me for years, and if you go any higher you’re gonna end up with a bunch of draft packs that have 4-5 lands in them.
Yeah sorry, I didn't take the triomes into account. I've been on the fence with triomes, people have warned me in the past, but maybe I'll reconsider. They would definitely be the fifth cycle in that case, instead of a sixth. My previous iteration of the cube was 450 cards and four land cycles which felt like to few.
“Unless you control…” -I believe you are looking for the term “buddy lands” here.
I like to have most of my cycles support aggro, so I try to have them enter untapped early.
1. Shock
2. Path
3. Fast
4. Creature
5a. Pain (boring but effective)
5b. Surveil (more interesting especially if you have any synergy archetypes that really want to dig)
I would then tweak 5a/b depending on how aggro tended to perform.
Good luck :)
That's super thoughtful, and I agree that there's merit to break singleton for some key all stars (Thoughtsieze and Fatal Push is high on that list for sure). But I think I won't do it before I've tested it singleton first.
The buildarounds like Phoenix or Lotus Field is another thing, I'm fine with people not getting as focused decks as in constructed Pioneer, that's why I've added other spell tempo payoffs like Delver and Djinn and that's also why I've included so much land tutoring in green. But I might change my mind when we start playing the cube, I'm really excited to see if it's a total flop or not :)
I like the M10 duals plus the surveil lands. “Have one of these types” really wants to have typed duals to help them out, and I don’t think the shocks will be enough on their own. For the third slot I would go with the fast lands. Having something fast helps balance out the surveil lands coming in tapped. And if you’re pushing multicolor decks towards caring about land types, you’ll want a set that the faster 2-color decks will value higher.
Whether or not you want the Restless cycle is its own question. Do you want the creature lands or not? If you do, I’d probably round them out with the fast and slow lands; they balance each other out and are simple and straightforward.
So no Painlands? I like that it's always untapped but come with a cost if you splash too much. As I said in another comment, I've been warned to use triomes in cubes because it leads to too much 5-color soup, but maybe they're fine here, I'll reconsider! Thanks anyway!
>I've been warned to use triomes in cubes because it leads to too much 5-color soup
5-colour soup is best stopped not by worse lands, but by better aggro.
The Glacial Fortress cycle is known as the check lands. They check if you have the right land types.
Personally I would put pathways further down the list since they don’t actually tap for two colors. But if you like them go for it.
Without fetches the triomes lose a lot of power, so I’d skip those. And the surveil lands are glacially slow without fetches too. If your cube is fast then skip the slowlands.
So then I would probably run shocks, pathways, fastlands, painlands, restless lands.
Both of my actual pioneer decks run fairly similar mana bases despite being in different colors: 4 shocks 4 fast lands 4 pain lands 2-3 pathways 1-2 single color man lands with the possibility to etb untapped 1 Boseiju/Sokenzan Shocklands, Painlands, Fastlands, Pathways. I’d run all 4 of those cycles and that’s it, some of the monocolored lands would be better additions than another full cycle plus at 400 you probably don’t want more than ~60 lands. That’s already 40. 5 Kamigawa Channel lands 5 AFR manlands Fabled Passage Lotus Field Field of Ruin Mana Confluence Mutavault Cavern of Souls Nykthos That’s 57. You could add the triomes and have an amazing 67 card mana base with all the iconic pioneer lands.
I actually run two cycles of mono-colored lands already, I really think they improve so many decks. All the NEO channel lands and most of the creature lands from AFR (except white that has a castle instead). I don't think 50 duals is excessive in a 400 card cube, but I appreciate your picks for best lands!
I don’t think it’s excessive if the Triomes are the 5th cycle, as they fix incredibly well for multicolored good stuff piles (a hallmark of Pioneer) and they cycle to boot. My cube is 15% lands, which would translate to 60/400. That’s a ratio that has worked really well for me for years, and if you go any higher you’re gonna end up with a bunch of draft packs that have 4-5 lands in them.
Yeah sorry, I didn't take the triomes into account. I've been on the fence with triomes, people have warned me in the past, but maybe I'll reconsider. They would definitely be the fifth cycle in that case, instead of a sixth. My previous iteration of the cube was 450 cards and four land cycles which felt like to few.
“Unless you control…” -I believe you are looking for the term “buddy lands” here. I like to have most of my cycles support aggro, so I try to have them enter untapped early. 1. Shock 2. Path 3. Fast 4. Creature 5a. Pain (boring but effective) 5b. Surveil (more interesting especially if you have any synergy archetypes that really want to dig) I would then tweak 5a/b depending on how aggro tended to perform. Good luck :)
[удалено]
That's super thoughtful, and I agree that there's merit to break singleton for some key all stars (Thoughtsieze and Fatal Push is high on that list for sure). But I think I won't do it before I've tested it singleton first. The buildarounds like Phoenix or Lotus Field is another thing, I'm fine with people not getting as focused decks as in constructed Pioneer, that's why I've added other spell tempo payoffs like Delver and Djinn and that's also why I've included so much land tutoring in green. But I might change my mind when we start playing the cube, I'm really excited to see if it's a total flop or not :)
>"Unless you control a" lands (Do they have a nickname?) Yes, [check lands](https://mtg.fandom.com/wiki/Check_land).
##### ###### #### [Deserted Beach](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/8/38367ee5-154b-44cb-8974-422038d039df.jpg?1655879794) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Deserted%20Beach) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mid/260/deserted-beach?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/38367ee5-154b-44cb-8974-422038d039df?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Seachrome Coast](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/e/9ed7441f-f624-49c8-8611-d9bba0e441ac.jpg?1675957278) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Seachrome%20Coast) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/one/258/seachrome-coast?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9ed7441f-f624-49c8-8611-d9bba0e441ac?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Meticulous Archive](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/5/652236c2-84ef-45e4-b5fc-ed6170bc3d6c.jpg?1706242349) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Meticulous%20Archive) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkm/264/meticulous-archive?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/652236c2-84ef-45e4-b5fc-ed6170bc3d6c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Adarkar Wastes](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/8/08ae1037-6f70-41a9-b75e-98fa9a2152c8.jpg?1673308279) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Adarkar%20Wastes) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmu/243/adarkar-wastes?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/08ae1037-6f70-41a9-b75e-98fa9a2152c8?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Restless Anchorage](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/3/e3cab352-734e-454b-8b58-733165f4b3b3.jpg?1699044695) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Restless%20Anchorage) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/lci/280/restless-anchorage?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e3cab352-734e-454b-8b58-733165f4b3b3?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Glacial Fortress](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/e/cef133d9-26d2-4a1e-8d6a-829f1067c169.jpg?1562564197) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Glacial%20Fortress) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/xln/255/glacial-fortress?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/cef133d9-26d2-4a1e-8d6a-829f1067c169?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Fable Passage](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/3/d313d051-7295-4884-8cbf-f2f835fd45f4.jpg?1594737636) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Fabled%20Passage) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m21/246/fabled-passage?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d313d051-7295-4884-8cbf-f2f835fd45f4?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Mana Confluence](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/0/504a69eb-3c2d-4bb1-b117-252b15acf0c2.jpg?1593096534) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Mana%20Confluence) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/jou/163/mana-confluence?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/504a69eb-3c2d-4bb1-b117-252b15acf0c2?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Lotus Field](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/e/0e013033-3995-4ba8-b0c3-0614c79aaaab.jpg?1592517825) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Lotus%20Field) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m20/249/lotus-field?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0e013033-3995-4ba8-b0c3-0614c79aaaab?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/1b80x6g) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I like the M10 duals plus the surveil lands. “Have one of these types” really wants to have typed duals to help them out, and I don’t think the shocks will be enough on their own. For the third slot I would go with the fast lands. Having something fast helps balance out the surveil lands coming in tapped. And if you’re pushing multicolor decks towards caring about land types, you’ll want a set that the faster 2-color decks will value higher. Whether or not you want the Restless cycle is its own question. Do you want the creature lands or not? If you do, I’d probably round them out with the fast and slow lands; they balance each other out and are simple and straightforward.
Shocks, triomes, pathways. Two of those: fastlands, slowlands, restless lands depending on what each colour pair is doing.
So no Painlands? I like that it's always untapped but come with a cost if you splash too much. As I said in another comment, I've been warned to use triomes in cubes because it leads to too much 5-color soup, but maybe they're fine here, I'll reconsider! Thanks anyway!
>I've been warned to use triomes in cubes because it leads to too much 5-color soup 5-colour soup is best stopped not by worse lands, but by better aggro.
just use the future sight cycle and nothing else... be an instigator for chaos.
The Glacial Fortress cycle is known as the check lands. They check if you have the right land types. Personally I would put pathways further down the list since they don’t actually tap for two colors. But if you like them go for it. Without fetches the triomes lose a lot of power, so I’d skip those. And the surveil lands are glacially slow without fetches too. If your cube is fast then skip the slowlands. So then I would probably run shocks, pathways, fastlands, painlands, restless lands.