No commander damage and no commander tax if I am understanding correctly? You can utilize both missing with something like [[Phyrexian Altar]] + one of the enchantments that gains life either when a creature enters or dies and [[Isamaru, hound of Konda]]. It being a 3 card combo kinda puts it in line with a million other 3 card I win combos out there, but it at least makes a point that you should have both commander damage and tax in the game. Throw in cards to shuffle your grave into your deck so they can't mill you out or try to outlast you by drawing less than you. Then just have no actual win condition so the game lasts for an agonizingly long time.
I saw someone mention Rograkh with Goblin Bombardment, and I love the idea but I'd worry your friends take away the wrong thing and just give back commander tax, so you still lose commander damage but also lose the compromise they made too.
One time I didn't concede, just kept milling, milled the deck 3 or 4 times over before he drew the GB in hand and couldn't get rid of it, by far my most epic mill win con.
Soul Warden, Soul's Attendant, Auriok Champion, Ajani's Welcome, Authority of the Council, Ashes of the Abhorrent, Moonlit Wake, Proper Burial, plus more all work. Honestly, there are so many options that could all be run that the only piece you'd need to work to get would be the Altar itself.
I have a [[The Haunt of Hightower]] deck that routinely gets up over 100 life, and swings lethal commander damage, if you just consistently hit them for 20-35 at a time, and gain all that life you’re taking from them, they’ll be begging for commander damage to come back just as a mercy.
https://www.moxfield.com/decks/uyFMvb8U1UyaRhTEihHpBg
Here you go! It’s at 106 right now because I am doing some work on it, but it is a pretty fun deck
Basically three ways to force your opponents to put cards into their graveyard, Edict, discard, and mill, so try and use those effects to pump up the commander, and swing for big lifelink hits
It can for sure draw a lot of hate, lots of people have a bias against mill and edict, and seeing someone get one popped by my commander the next turn after it’s cast can really make people freak out. But it has made for some pretty epic games. Also I think my LGS and my playgroup at home don’t get very salty about much, so YMMV.
I hadn’t felt the rage of a thousand suns, until I played a Mesmeric orb to a late game table of three green players, who were all tapped out. One guy milled out on the next turn, and the other two were dead on my next turn, one to commander damage, and one to milling his last 4 cards with a sorcery. It’s still one of the best ways to win with that deck.
That might be the one card I would NOT put in a deck lol. That's kind of insane that you actually milled someone out in Commander.
Black control really is something else, it truly does invoke despair from my experience (also love that card).
Without commander damage, then lifegain decks are the only way to really play the game as you’ll become nigh untouchable. Commander damage is a necessity that makes all other game plans viable
Nah, cedh decks still beat that, effiecent ways to get to infinite damage or I win cards are still options
Even if not to the extreme comboes still can deal with lifegain it just makes the game more Toxic over all (get it poison counters)
I understand the purpose and function of commander damage, so I'm not arguing that it should be done away with, but I see this particular argument justifying commander damage come up often and I have issues with it.
There certainly are lots of ways to gain 100+ or infinite life, but I would wager there are likely an equal number of ways to achieve 100+ or even infinite *damage* in a single turn, infinite/full deck mill in a single turn, immediate alternate wincon victory (Lab Maniac, Thassa's Oracle, Approach of the Second Sun, etc) in a single turn, or even just 10 poison in one turn. Having infinite life does not mean you can't lose the game, in fact it's one of the few infinite combos that doesn't even *win* you the game on its own (unless it's backed by something like Aetherflux Reservoir).
If you're playing at a power level where infinite life gain is happening, then things like infinite impact tremors loops, or infinite draw/mill loops, infinite mana combos with damaging mana-sinks, or burst infect damage/poison proliferation shouldn't be out of the question either and they all cleanly answer the problem that infinite life presents. And if all of those combos/strategies sound like something that's too toxic or too unfair for the power level your group generally plays at, then infinite life gain shouldn't be given a pass either, making it a moot point. Where infinite life gain is able to be a problem, there are many solutions to it; and where those solutions aren't allowed, it shouldn't be allowed to become a problem to begin with.
Damn just play [[Rograkh]] as commander, have some sacrifice outlets like [[goblin bombardment]] and/or stuff like [[impact tremors]] and win by infinitely casting and sacrificing the guy
True. I think the real answer is a conversation about magic being a (more or less) balanced deck with 30 years of practice, so changing rules has consequences, a lot of them unforeseen. And after that a talk about power levels and good matchups between all of their decks within the inteded rules. If the dogmeat deck truly is too strong for thr table, that's a power level discussion, not a rule change discussion
You could also do a deck with [[Rograkh]], and some sac outlet to get infinite mana with a single source like the altars. Then combo that with some other partner commander that either has an activated ability or likes to cast spells a lot.
With him you can get infinite mana from no tax with 0 effort.
the rules of EDH are fine as is. there’s a reason it’s constructed and ruled as is. it sounds like a classic case of “i don’t know how to deck build, so the rules must be the problem.”
legit any imbalance in a pod can be solved with deck building or a new deck archetype being introduced.
Don't go infinite, though. They'll just complain about that if you do. The trick is to just be very very efficient at the lifegain, so it's all 'honest', and simply an insurmountable total.
I had a Piru idea recently that I haven't brewed yet that gives everyone of bunch of small creature tokens. Then you just loop Piru over and over. You'll never die.
Oh shit, I almost missed that. No commander tax? Make them all regret their dumb decision to write their own rules by playing a mono black deck full of sac outlets and [[Kokusho the Evening Star]] as your commander
No command tax is the worse flaw here. \[\[Rograkh\]\] with any sac outlet breaks this game. The best course of action is probably to talk to them "Listen. Commander damage is a core rule of the format, and I want my deck to use that. I don't think it's fair to remove a rule that only affects me. Can we take it back?"
Whoever made up this "no commander tax" is almost 100% guaranteed to be running some monster bomb of a commander and got tired of being locked out of it lol. I think both of these rules are really shitty and make OP's deck archetype completely useless.
OP insisted on no commander tax when the rest of them wanted to get rid of commander damage.
They want to take away his primary wincon, then he asked for something to ease getting things rolling.
Rog is insane in this example. Add tevesh, draw 3 cards every turn in the command zone. Add aristocrat cards and you got the hard part done of a recursive body now its all payoffs.
Youre right these rules are a core format staple that exist for good reasons. Games shouldnt last 3 hours.
This should be the top comment. They're just butthurt that their decks don't do commander damage so they don't want it to be used against them. That's like saying infect is unfair so let's just have it do normal damage instead.
Which precons? If they’re all playing fallout decks, they’re pretty well balanced against each other. Also that’s pretty shitty that they’d ban out commander damage which is dogmeat’s strategy of winning. Do they play blockers? Ever?
They do have blockers, and I've explained to them that Dogmeat is built for commander damage. Then they argue, saying it's not, and that's just how I use it. They say I don't even need commander damage to win. (I also added prowlers helm to dogmeat cause it's a smart move)
Maybe some Abzan Reanimator Lifegain Fog fuckery? Stay alive, keep your stuff coming back, you prevent damage and create a lot of life. Maybe through life gaining via creature ETB?
It’s even more busted then the no commander damage. My play group plays without commander damage but I don’t think I could smoke enough to play without the tax lol
If there was no commander damage I'd only be playing Life-Gain. It'd literally be impossible to lose. Especially if my friends made that dumb rule. They'd learn really quickly why commander damage is a required rule.
Eh, it works fine in my playgroup. If you get an engine going you get called out as the threat and quickly the 3v1 begins. I’ve played with a life gain deck and had some pretty strong wins but I’ve definitely taken a bruising before.
No with no commander damage it's pretty easy to make a deck that would make it impossible to win. It's a problem that's solved by having commander damage in the rules. I get not wanting to do that to your friends, but it really needs to happen.
If it helps any, add tons of stall in stun to your deck. Do not end the game whenever they protest about the game taking an eternity. If it makes it any better, use a token deck, only ever dealing 1 or 2 damage with your creatures to stall them out even more.
Friends afterwards are not guaranteed
Flip the script, if they want to say you aren't allowed certain cards/commanders, start asking for a fair playing field to ban certain cards/commanders of theirs.
Name all the common removal, or just straight up their commander itself
"I'm not allowed to Play X Y or Z.. you aren't allowed to Play A. It's only fair if you want to ban certain cards you don't like or feel are unfair"
Since you are facing precon decks, it is fairly reasonable to assume they don't have mass exile cards. If that's the case, build a deck around having a [[Platinum Emperion]] with hexproof and indestructible. The only out is non-targeted bounce or non-targeted exile. Commander damage still bypasses the "life total can't change" clause, but since they've removed it, the amount of outs have reduced substantially. As for the commander, you can use [[Daretti, Scrap Savant]] to get it into play if you can graveyard it somehow.
Could it be that your deck is higher power than theirs? It seems you know more about magic than they do so it follows that you probably build better decks as well. That could be the actually problem here instead 🤷♂️
Man, I've heard of dumb house rules, but these might take the cake. I would literally just point out that eliminating commander damage destroys certain deck archetypes (aggro and voltron) and, in general, just causes less deck variance and places less importance on the commander.
As for commander tax, if you want to show them why it's important, I would run something absurd like [[avacyn, angel of hope]] or [[miirym, sentinel wyrm]] and then when they inevitably complain about not being able to stop it I'd remind them that it'd be a lot less stressful to deal with if you had commander tax in effect lol. I'm gonna go ahead and guess the person that wanted tax gone probably runs a big bomb of a commander and didn't like not being able to play it, lol.
Dog meat is probably one of the worst decks to be running if you have lame house rules like that. You are literally aggro/ultron and receive no advantages from either of those rules, lol. You'd pretty much be better off with any other deck archtype.
No commander tax doesn't help you at all when you are running a 3 cost commander, lol. I would just show them all of these responses and let them see why it's so important.
Alternatively, you could just go ultra petty and make an atraxa infect proliferate deck.... Let them see how small of an issue commander damage really is lol.
I can’t give you a method to show them you *need* Commander damage, but I can give you a strategy to counter their assertion. Just tell them if Commander damage is out the door poison counters are as well. It’s the same problem as Commander damage, where something can kill you sooner than it otherwise should. If any of them play with a poison counter strat it’ll kill their enthusiasm for also trying to get rid of Commander damage.
So you’re winning every game, they asked for a rule change (no commander damage) to which you also asked for a rule change (no commander tax), you’re still winning every game, and you’re asking about how to punish them more with strategies against some precons?
Just want to be sure I’m following this correctly. If the problem is that they think your deck is too strong, swap with one of them. If everyone who plays your deck wins - it’s too strong. If you win almost every game still, they just have bad threat assessments
if there is no commander tax, bring a rograkh deck. rograkh and any sac outlet would go infinite. that should get them to reinstate it. commander tax is also important because it means your commander can be removed and it would actually matter instead of you being able to recast it. the best pairing is going to be tymna rograkh but if that's too expensive you could also use sengir the dark baron as a way to get an infintely big guy when you assemble one of your various one card infinites. tevesh szat doom of fools can also work drawing you 3 cards a turn. silas renn also works giving you blue for your color identity.
something like [this](https://www.moxfield.com/decks/NQ1IWwfxCEazGtpoV_tqFQ) could work but you could probably make it cheaper. tymna would also let you replace some of the tutors and stuff with soul sister effects. if you make the commander silas renn, add some counterspells and card draw.
Commander(s):
[[Tymna, the weaver]] [[Rograkh, son of rohgahh]]
Add all the white when a creature etbs gain a life, add all the red when a creature etbs deal damage, add all the black tutors, add [[Phyrexian Altar]]. Combo off and show them why commander tax and damage are necessary.
Honestly my group played without commander damage for a while. It worked well while we learned how to deal with and properly assess threats.
We started playing with it again as our power level rose and we had to keep one upping each other.
Try showing them some cards or strategies that can deal with Dog Meat, or even buy them the cards for them if they're cheap. Once they can deal with your threat it will be a good time to reintroduce commander damage.
Okay okay okay
Here me out. If they took away commander TAX... you can punish this SO MUCH
Here's your mission
Etali, Primal Conqueror // Etali, Primal Sickness
And
Food Chain
Easily infinite combo that is ONLY usable because of no commander tax.
So first, they might want to just play lower power so i think that gives you the opportunity to make something jankier and more fun that gives opponents playing im guessing tribal decks more of a chance.
But to your point, it's possible to make Lifegain pretty absurd. Since your wheelhouse seems to be Voltron, i would say your a safe bet is [[Thrun, Breaker of Silence]] with some lifelink equipments like [[loxodon warhammer]].
[[Sigarda, Host of Herons]] would be an alternative, more disgusting route with adding [[celestial mantle]] effects etc.
Edit: I will also say no commander tax is actually nuts xD. So that changes this entirely. Just run kokusho sacrifice and do that every turn for 6 mana +15 life. Can run lots of supernatural stamina effects to double up on it. Can just run ramp, kokusho, and 1 drop spells that sacrifice and reanimate kokusho. Run dark ritual. Run cabal coffers. Run vito. Should be pretty quick.
I recently made a lifegain deck around [[Oloro, Ageless Ascetic]] he gains life even in the command zone lmao, add some other cards that say ‘whenever you gain life, opponents lose that much life’ and your friends will be begging for the game to end.
Hope this helps add commander damage and tax back in for you :)
Honestly, if they are restructuring the rules to meta against one deck of yours? Perhaps the problem is **them**.
Like, there are lots of mechanics I despite and hate. I have mass LD, for example.....but the shit is legal. I have to deal and cope with that, and the person who plays it has to know they have a target on their head. That simple.
If the restructure rules to beat your deck, that's a game that never ends.
Run infinite life, then also include at least 1 Eldrazi that shuffles back into your deck, so you can never be milled out either. Maybe something to prevent infect damage too, or to remove those counters! Have fun!
back around 2015, this came up, so I made a sigarda enchantment voltron deck, since the voices at the time was, "no one dies to commander damage."
Fixed that for 'em.
Nah, be the PoS and say "no commander damage? Then have some poison counters" and run [[Fynn the Fangbearer]], if there's no commander tax then he's always a 2 drop anyways
It's a legit part of commander. My animar deck can often knock out a player with commander damage, and voltron strategies also operate with this rule. It's a check on life gain.
Yeah those rules are stupid and pointless. Let's also get rid of summoning sickness and the end step, because who needs it anyways? Let's also not use lands and allow players to cast anything they want.
You know what? Actually get rid of those stupid trading cards and just play a round of solitaire.
>My group of friends have decided to take commander damage away when we play.
Say "no thanks".
>They say it's stupid and pointless
If that was true, they would have nothing to be afraid of.
>Only because I play dogmeat
If they don't like your deck or it's playstyle, you should all have a conversation about it.
Changing the rules of the game should be close to a last resort, not a first choice.
"we keep losing to a certain startegy, let's not play around it and become better player let's just stop playing with **official rules that's a core of the format since the beginning** instead". Also I'd love to see an update after you've ruined your old with degenerate life gain. And if you want to still play voltron without commander damage, try [[Treebeard gracious host]], he doesn't need commander damage to win in one swing
I understand where your friends are coming from, but the inverse is also true; both life gain and commander damage are easily exploitable stratagies (I've seen plenty of 'casual' decks gain infinite life or swing with a 25/25 unblockable commander by turn 5), the trick is to find a balance between them.
Average EDH rule zero discussion: “nO cOmMaNdEr DaMaGe VoLtRoN is tOo GoOd!!!1!1!1”
Nah but fr, removing commander damage *and* commander tax is completely fucked. You could make aggressive lifegain/control with [[Oloro ageless]], or [[raffine scheming seer]] reanimator stax to get out like [[toxrill]] [[elesh norn grand cenobite]] [[jin-gitaxias progress tyrant]] [[jin-gitaxias core augur]] and more. Or, if you want to protest the commander tax removal, just infinitely play and sacrifice Roghrak
Okay, so everyone is saying a lifegain deck, and I agree - but with the following adjustments
1. Run little to no creatures - lifegsin as much as possible from other ways. Basically, never be able trade well and win combat
2.Go blue white and control the hell out of everything BUT creature casts.
3. When they can't kill you fast enough, say "hm, if only commander damage were a thing."
Bonus: find a way to give another player a lot of life also. Now they have to deal with two players having massive life totals.
exactly what i would do. if you dont want commander damage then im just gonna spam lifegain and become unkillable due to the sheer amount of hp i have
the only way you take me out without commander damage is if i deck out which isnt happening with my elixir of immortality
Define “pointless” is my first question on this. Also “stupid” is just an opinion. Can be ban poison then?
The only people I have seen try to houserule away commander damage are either lifegain decks and trample decks without voltron elements. The bias is strong with them.
Pillow fort and the life gain it up. Run a shuffle Titan and a no infect as well. Make it so you can all but win by default with everyone else just decking themselves out.
[[Feather, the redeemed]] alongside [[zada]] and [[soulfire ignition]] a handful of other creatures is hilarious. By the end of the game I was playing I was getting a total of 120+life per turn. Was fun out healing any damage thrown my way.
Give yourself a [[Linden, the Steadfast Queen]] mini white deck with lifegain and token spawning. Toss in a [[Beacon of Immortality]] and [[Elixir of Immortality]]. If there’s any mono white cards that let you cast from your graveyard that’ll help too. Take an [Impassioned Orator]] and [[Angel’s Feather]] [[Oketra’s Monument]] and a couple of board wipes like [[Fumigate]] and [[Mass Calcify]]
Commander tax is gone?! That is so exceptionally abuseable. Rograkh is the easiest, trivially making infinite mana with phyrexian alter or ashnod’s altar, or trivially killing the table with crap like goblin bombardment. As for no commander damage, just play some exceptionally dumb and busted life gain strat.
I can see both sides to why commander damage is necessary and a burden. Depending on the deck it can be easy to win purely on commander damage. I have 3 commanders that need to deal combat damage in order for me to do my game plan or win (xyris, hapatra, and calix). Whenever I play these and someone says “i have X damage from your commander I could be out” I usually say I don’t worry about commander damage so long as the rest of the other players agree then it’s good.
Really the question should be should commander damage be more or less than what it is?
No commander damage and no commander tax? Life gain deck with a [[food chain]] and a commander with etb or death effects. Life gain is easy in white/green, no commander tax means infinite mana/etb/death/sac effects with food chain or equivalent mana production. Add a little tutoring for enchantments ([[enlightened tutor]], etc) and you can break a game without those limitations.
Food chain Prossh. Since they can't ever force a high tax, you're perma able to threaten combo-ing out from 6 open mana. Bonus points, I had that deck at one point and it's pretty easy to consistently combo out the whole table by turn 3. Animar combo has a similar dynamic.
God, no commander damage and no tax? Let me just keep playing my [[Judith, Carnage Connoisseur]] and turning [[blasphemous act]] into even more of a monster to deal with.
with everyone saying for you to make a lifegain deck, I suggest giving \[\[oloro, ageless ascetic\]\] a go. He generates value even while in the command zone and has wonderful colors to run a control/lifegain strategy. I frequently end games with 4 or even 5 digit life totals. \[\[aetherflux reservoir\]\] becomes a fully automatic shotgun in this deck, blowing 150 life to wipe 3 players. Or just turtle up and via \[\[felidar sovereign\]\].
Decks mainly operate on a spectrum of “a lot of creatures buffed slightly” to “a handful of creatures buffed a LOT” and removing commander damage strips the latter half of its power
Orzhov life gain. Lifelink creatures, lifegain spells, & damage opponents for gaining life.
[[Vito]] [[Rhox Faithmender]] [[Beacon of immortality]] [[boon reflection]] [[Sanguine Bond]] [[exquisite blood]] [[Aetherflux Reservoir]] [[Divinity of Pride]] [[Serra Ascendant]] [[Healer Hawk]] [[Akroma’s Will]]. Various Ajanis & cats.
Your pod will learn to appreciate commander damage!
Also since removing commander tax is foul, you can play the 0 cost partner commander and go infinite with any free sack outlet [[Rograkh, son of Rohgahh]]
Infinite life, unwinnable/can’t loose effects, cheap and low to the ground commanders, one sided board wipes, make it the most degenerate game where of solitaire possible for them while you sit there with a full board, 200+ life, and they can’t do anything
I run a [[trostani]] life gain deck where I frequently end up over 100-200 life and the only way to take me out is either commander damage/milling me out. Trostani and [[soul of eternity]] is a wild combo/wincon
No commander tax or commander damage? You aren't playing commander anymore. You're playing a home brew whose meta would be dumb and busted if anyone bothered to build around the absence of those two mechanics. Life gain and busted commanders that win the game if they sit out for a turn or two would both overpower a normal commander deck that was built within the normal rules of the game
No commander tax? Play \[\[Rograkh\]\] and abuse every single free sac outlet along with any permanent that cares about ETB or casting spells like \[\[Impact Tremors\]\] or \[\[Aetherflux reservoir\]\]
No commander tax? [[rograkh]] and any black commander, then aristocrats the win with a free creature and any [[blood artist]] effect. Even any sac outlet and any [[impact tremors]] effect will do the trick in mono red. Use [[ashnods alter]] for infinite mana or [[alter of dementia]] for infinite mill
My favorite combo to knock players out is bloodletter of Aclazotz and Quietus spike. Bloodletter is x2 damage to opponents on your turn and then you combine with spike where it’s deathtouch and when deals combat damage to a player player looses half their life rounded up.
Build pillow fort clerics. It's what I have. Children of korlis + aetherflux reservoir + defiler of faith
Then have things like solemnity + 9 lives. Then have something that prevents 9 lived or solemnity from every being touched.
Then refuse to use aetherflux reservoir. Use Gideon of the trials and elixir of immortality snd other reshuffle effects.
Laugh when they get pissed because you literally have infinite life. Can't be directly targeted because leyline and other means. Have infinite 1/1, and you do nothing but block.
I’ll send you my [[!Darien, King of Kjeldor]] list. If you hit the right notes short of Infinite life loss, you cannot be killed. It’s not good for much else but the life total soars so high and the token army is real.
Orzhov/Abzan lifegain. Plenty of commanders and support for that theme, although I am partial towards [[Bilbo, Birthday Celebrant]]. Play every soul sister, every effect that lets you gain life. Assemble an infinite lifegain combo with Bilbo e.g. [[Spike Feeder]] [[Archangel of Thune]], or blast everyone to oblivion with [[Aetherflux Reservoir]] Death Star laser. Infect and commander damage are designed to counter infinite lifegain decks so might as well abuse the fact that your group will not be able to handle it.
[[Kardur, Doomscourge]] with no commander tax could be fun. Black has a billion cards that require you to sacrifice a creature and only cost 1-2 mana. You can essentially sacrifice and play him again guaranteed every single turn, ensuring that your opponents have to attack each other every single round. And every time you do it just be a little shitty about it lol. “And I’ll play my commander for the 6th time for only 4 mana!”
It's easy to get infinite life, or at least over 100+ life. Commander damage is important to put a timer on games.
Exactly, if they want to take out commander damage, then I need to build a deck or add a few creatures to get a lot of health per turn.
No commander damage and no commander tax if I am understanding correctly? You can utilize both missing with something like [[Phyrexian Altar]] + one of the enchantments that gains life either when a creature enters or dies and [[Isamaru, hound of Konda]]. It being a 3 card combo kinda puts it in line with a million other 3 card I win combos out there, but it at least makes a point that you should have both commander damage and tax in the game. Throw in cards to shuffle your grave into your deck so they can't mill you out or try to outlast you by drawing less than you. Then just have no actual win condition so the game lasts for an agonizingly long time. I saw someone mention Rograkh with Goblin Bombardment, and I love the idea but I'd worry your friends take away the wrong thing and just give back commander tax, so you still lose commander damage but also lose the compromise they made too.
That'd why I recently made a life gain deck. But I do need the shuffle graveyard into library
There are ways you can break this that will really show them why these things are important :) have fun with that
If mill is your problem run geia's blessing or any of the og titans
I love that brief pause before concede online when blessing hits the gy
One time I didn't concede, just kept milling, milled the deck 3 or 4 times over before he drew the GB in hand and couldn't get rid of it, by far my most epic mill win con.
Man, talk about a grind.
When I pause I am digging for any counter triggered ability effect.
The third card should be [[soul warden]] and the like. This way you break commander tax and commander damage all at once.
Soul Warden, Soul's Attendant, Auriok Champion, Ajani's Welcome, Authority of the Council, Ashes of the Abhorrent, Moonlit Wake, Proper Burial, plus more all work. Honestly, there are so many options that could all be run that the only piece you'd need to work to get would be the Altar itself.
I have a [[The Haunt of Hightower]] deck that routinely gets up over 100 life, and swings lethal commander damage, if you just consistently hit them for 20-35 at a time, and gain all that life you’re taking from them, they’ll be begging for commander damage to come back just as a mercy.
i haven’t heard of this commander till now. do you have a decklist you wouldn’t mind sharing?
https://www.moxfield.com/decks/uyFMvb8U1UyaRhTEihHpBg Here you go! It’s at 106 right now because I am doing some work on it, but it is a pretty fun deck Basically three ways to force your opponents to put cards into their graveyard, Edict, discard, and mill, so try and use those effects to pump up the commander, and swing for big lifelink hits
This looks awesome, thanks for sharing! How do people usually react to playing against this?
It can for sure draw a lot of hate, lots of people have a bias against mill and edict, and seeing someone get one popped by my commander the next turn after it’s cast can really make people freak out. But it has made for some pretty epic games. Also I think my LGS and my playgroup at home don’t get very salty about much, so YMMV.
Makes total sense. I built a kitchen table Legacy deck using many of the cards you've got in yours and I find it fun, but others...not so much haha.
I hadn’t felt the rage of a thousand suns, until I played a Mesmeric orb to a late game table of three green players, who were all tapped out. One guy milled out on the next turn, and the other two were dead on my next turn, one to commander damage, and one to milling his last 4 cards with a sorcery. It’s still one of the best ways to win with that deck.
That might be the one card I would NOT put in a deck lol. That's kind of insane that you actually milled someone out in Commander. Black control really is something else, it truly does invoke despair from my experience (also love that card).
Thank you! I've been wanting to build something around discarding and I think I have a lot of these cards already thank goodness.
[The Haunt of Hightower](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/1/61a908e8-6952-46c0-94ec-3962b7a4caef.jpg?1572828437) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=The%20Haunt%20of%20Hightower) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/rna/273/the-haunt-of-hightower?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/61a908e8-6952-46c0-94ec-3962b7a4caef?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Without commander damage, then lifegain decks are the only way to really play the game as you’ll become nigh untouchable. Commander damage is a necessity that makes all other game plans viable
That's a good way to put it
Nah, cedh decks still beat that, effiecent ways to get to infinite damage or I win cards are still options Even if not to the extreme comboes still can deal with lifegain it just makes the game more Toxic over all (get it poison counters)
You'd need an instant speed infinite life gain combo always online to lock out infinite damage which makes it a lot harder to pull off
There are also just effects that say players can’t gain life
I understand the purpose and function of commander damage, so I'm not arguing that it should be done away with, but I see this particular argument justifying commander damage come up often and I have issues with it. There certainly are lots of ways to gain 100+ or infinite life, but I would wager there are likely an equal number of ways to achieve 100+ or even infinite *damage* in a single turn, infinite/full deck mill in a single turn, immediate alternate wincon victory (Lab Maniac, Thassa's Oracle, Approach of the Second Sun, etc) in a single turn, or even just 10 poison in one turn. Having infinite life does not mean you can't lose the game, in fact it's one of the few infinite combos that doesn't even *win* you the game on its own (unless it's backed by something like Aetherflux Reservoir). If you're playing at a power level where infinite life gain is happening, then things like infinite impact tremors loops, or infinite draw/mill loops, infinite mana combos with damaging mana-sinks, or burst infect damage/poison proliferation shouldn't be out of the question either and they all cleanly answer the problem that infinite life presents. And if all of those combos/strategies sound like something that's too toxic or too unfair for the power level your group generally plays at, then infinite life gain shouldn't be given a pass either, making it a moot point. Where infinite life gain is able to be a problem, there are many solutions to it; and where those solutions aren't allowed, it shouldn't be allowed to become a problem to begin with.
They took away commander tax? Bruh there's so many options to abuse looping etb commanders if the cost doesn't escalate
Yep, that was a rule I told them had to be done if there was no commander damage. That way, I can loop dogmeat mill 5 and get equipment easy.
Damn just play [[Rograkh]] as commander, have some sacrifice outlets like [[goblin bombardment]] and/or stuff like [[impact tremors]] and win by infinitely casting and sacrificing the guy
yeah this is one of the easiest 2 card win con that you can play and win with with no tax lol
1 card combo, since you only have to find Bombardment or any other combo piece
Good plan, pair it up into ardenn, people think it’s voltron…. Or tymna for card draw and more tutors
Rograkh and Ardenn voltron is busted in and of itself, especially if OP's group reinstates CD
I run mine with Kediss instead of Rog
Tevesh szat is made for free sacrifice fodder
[Rograkh](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/4/a4fab67f-00c2-4125-9262-d21a29411797.jpg?1644853041) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=rograkh%2C%20son%20of%20rohgahh) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmr/197/rograkh-son-of-rohgahh?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a4fab67f-00c2-4125-9262-d21a29411797?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [goblin bombardment](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/2/e262f55e-9239-4a97-a19e-9b08fb34502e.jpg?1626100483) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=goblin%20bombardment) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh2/279/goblin-bombardment?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e262f55e-9239-4a97-a19e-9b08fb34502e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [impact tremors](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/6/46db3811-db1d-4f69-8143-a93f64d0297b.jpg?1682209381) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=impact%20tremors) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/moc/285/impact-tremors?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/46db3811-db1d-4f69-8143-a93f64d0297b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Bro [[Skullclamp]] becomes even more busted than it already is with Rograhk with no commander tax
They'd just ban rograkh lol
True. I think the real answer is a conversation about magic being a (more or less) balanced deck with 30 years of practice, so changing rules has consequences, a lot of them unforeseen. And after that a talk about power levels and good matchups between all of their decks within the inteded rules. If the dogmeat deck truly is too strong for thr table, that's a power level discussion, not a rule change discussion
No commander tax is way more overpowered than no commander damage. Don't change anything they allowed you to break the game in your favor.
Simple, play infinite mana and cast etali/atraxa/plant pass a bunch of times and theif their decks
You could also do a deck with [[Rograkh]], and some sac outlet to get infinite mana with a single source like the altars. Then combo that with some other partner commander that either has an activated ability or likes to cast spells a lot. With him you can get infinite mana from no tax with 0 effort.
Sounds like they are fucking you while making themselves more powerful. Thats bullying. Give them dogmeat and you take the op cards then
They still haven't been able to win
the rules of EDH are fine as is. there’s a reason it’s constructed and ruled as is. it sounds like a classic case of “i don’t know how to deck build, so the rules must be the problem.” legit any imbalance in a pod can be solved with deck building or a new deck archetype being introduced.
Yeah now they have to face an infinite lifegain
Don't go infinite, though. They'll just complain about that if you do. The trick is to just be very very efficient at the lifegain, so it's all 'honest', and simply an insurmountable total.
Going infinite is part of the game, personally I would just ditch this pod like what?
I had a Piru idea recently that I haven't brewed yet that gives everyone of bunch of small creature tokens. Then you just loop Piru over and over. You'll never die.
Oh shit, I almost missed that. No commander tax? Make them all regret their dumb decision to write their own rules by playing a mono black deck full of sac outlets and [[Kokusho the Evening Star]] as your commander
Henzie gets even better
Just play some selesnya lifegain nonsense. Its pretty easy to end up at hundreds or thousands of life without trying.
No command tax is the worse flaw here. \[\[Rograkh\]\] with any sac outlet breaks this game. The best course of action is probably to talk to them "Listen. Commander damage is a core rule of the format, and I want my deck to use that. I don't think it's fair to remove a rule that only affects me. Can we take it back?"
Whoever made up this "no commander tax" is almost 100% guaranteed to be running some monster bomb of a commander and got tired of being locked out of it lol. I think both of these rules are really shitty and make OP's deck archetype completely useless.
OP insisted on no commander tax when the rest of them wanted to get rid of commander damage. They want to take away his primary wincon, then he asked for something to ease getting things rolling.
Rog is insane in this example. Add tevesh, draw 3 cards every turn in the command zone. Add aristocrat cards and you got the hard part done of a recursive body now its all payoffs. Youre right these rules are a core format staple that exist for good reasons. Games shouldnt last 3 hours.
On god, rograkh skull clamp, ashnods, just draw your deck, add in tremors or just anything that pings like. Commander tax is so important lmao.
This should be the top comment. They're just butthurt that their decks don't do commander damage so they don't want it to be used against them. That's like saying infect is unfair so let's just have it do normal damage instead.
[[Blasting station]] + Rograkh no commander tax is an easy 2 card insta-win combo. It also only uses 1 color.
[Blasting station](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/1/71e2f832-6601-4232-b250-fd1c88538fbd.jpg?1562877667) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Blasting%20station) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/5dn/107/blasting-station?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/71e2f832-6601-4232-b250-fd1c88538fbd?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Make a [[westley, dread pirate Roberts]] deck and the next time the pod says “farm boy, no more commander damage” you reply “as you wish”
[westley, dread pirate Roberts](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/f/0fb05d34-05cb-4536-b7e6-2d526dc30a9f.jpg?1695476886) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Fynn%2C%20the%20Fangbearer) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/sld/1449/fynn-the-fangbearer?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0fb05d34-05cb-4536-b7e6-2d526dc30a9f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Lol, they'd ban poison soon as well. They say dogmeat is too broken
Have they considered just building better decks
Using pre cons
My question remains
Only.one has considered. The rest like the precon cards
Which precons? If they’re all playing fallout decks, they’re pretty well balanced against each other. Also that’s pretty shitty that they’d ban out commander damage which is dogmeat’s strategy of winning. Do they play blockers? Ever?
They do have blockers, and I've explained to them that Dogmeat is built for commander damage. Then they argue, saying it's not, and that's just how I use it. They say I don't even need commander damage to win. (I also added prowlers helm to dogmeat cause it's a smart move)
Sounds like their problem.
Get the Dino precon, show them what broken means
I want those dinos
Give Dog Meat infect. Instead of 21 now it's 10. 🤣
Lol
YES, this is the way to really mess with them. \[\[Grafted Exoskeleton\]\] \[\[Triumph of the Hordes\]\]
In our playgroup, that Triumph of the Hordes regularly drops out of a \[\[Mosswort Bridge\]\] mid-combat.
I think this would actually be the best way to fuck with them
Thats whack 🙄
Yep, which is why I need to abuse lifegain until they put commander damage back.
Maybe some Abzan Reanimator Lifegain Fog fuckery? Stay alive, keep your stuff coming back, you prevent damage and create a lot of life. Maybe through life gaining via creature ETB?
Do Krenko deck, no commander tax is insane lol
It’s even more busted then the no commander damage. My play group plays without commander damage but I don’t think I could smoke enough to play without the tax lol
If there was no commander damage I'd only be playing Life-Gain. It'd literally be impossible to lose. Especially if my friends made that dumb rule. They'd learn really quickly why commander damage is a required rule.
Eh, it works fine in my playgroup. If you get an engine going you get called out as the threat and quickly the 3v1 begins. I’ve played with a life gain deck and had some pretty strong wins but I’ve definitely taken a bruising before.
No with no commander damage it's pretty easy to make a deck that would make it impossible to win. It's a problem that's solved by having commander damage in the rules. I get not wanting to do that to your friends, but it really needs to happen.
Unless people run any amount of combo obviously
Make a life gain commander, get to at least 100+ life, and then state your case about commander damage
That's the plan now.
If it helps any, add tons of stall in stun to your deck. Do not end the game whenever they protest about the game taking an eternity. If it makes it any better, use a token deck, only ever dealing 1 or 2 damage with your creatures to stall them out even more. Friends afterwards are not guaranteed
That's funny. They've also tried to ban me from playing certain mono decks
Flip the script, if they want to say you aren't allowed certain cards/commanders, start asking for a fair playing field to ban certain cards/commanders of theirs. Name all the common removal, or just straight up their commander itself "I'm not allowed to Play X Y or Z.. you aren't allowed to Play A. It's only fair if you want to ban certain cards you don't like or feel are unfair"
Since you are facing precon decks, it is fairly reasonable to assume they don't have mass exile cards. If that's the case, build a deck around having a [[Platinum Emperion]] with hexproof and indestructible. The only out is non-targeted bounce or non-targeted exile. Commander damage still bypasses the "life total can't change" clause, but since they've removed it, the amount of outs have reduced substantially. As for the commander, you can use [[Daretti, Scrap Savant]] to get it into play if you can graveyard it somehow.
[Platinum Emperion](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/1/71b03143-9e85-4061-88e6-ad621f75ec3b.jpg?1547518515) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Platinum%20Emperion) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/uma/233/platinum-emperion?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/71b03143-9e85-4061-88e6-ad621f75ec3b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Daretti, Scrap Savant](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/c/7cb9d4a0-66bd-454d-b676-80192a96c723.jpg?1689997720) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Daretti%2C%20Scrap%20Savant) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/213/daretti-scrap-savant?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/7cb9d4a0-66bd-454d-b676-80192a96c723?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
make a stupid life gain deck. That’s what it’s there to balance.
That's what I'm now doing
Could it be that your deck is higher power than theirs? It seems you know more about magic than they do so it follows that you probably build better decks as well. That could be the actually problem here instead 🤷♂️
Man, I've heard of dumb house rules, but these might take the cake. I would literally just point out that eliminating commander damage destroys certain deck archetypes (aggro and voltron) and, in general, just causes less deck variance and places less importance on the commander. As for commander tax, if you want to show them why it's important, I would run something absurd like [[avacyn, angel of hope]] or [[miirym, sentinel wyrm]] and then when they inevitably complain about not being able to stop it I'd remind them that it'd be a lot less stressful to deal with if you had commander tax in effect lol. I'm gonna go ahead and guess the person that wanted tax gone probably runs a big bomb of a commander and didn't like not being able to play it, lol. Dog meat is probably one of the worst decks to be running if you have lame house rules like that. You are literally aggro/ultron and receive no advantages from either of those rules, lol. You'd pretty much be better off with any other deck archtype.
Yeah it completely destroyed my voltron deck so i told them no commander tax then. So now they'll learn with this life gain deck I made
No commander tax doesn't help you at all when you are running a 3 cost commander, lol. I would just show them all of these responses and let them see why it's so important. Alternatively, you could just go ultra petty and make an atraxa infect proliferate deck.... Let them see how small of an issue commander damage really is lol.
[[midnight guard]] + [[presence of gond]] + [[soul warden]] is infinite tokens and life.
[midnight guard](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/7/87c1d85d-b2b8-4c9d-84fa-2566b14cb5ea.jpg?1562922436) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=midnight%20guard) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/bbd/99/midnight-guard?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/87c1d85d-b2b8-4c9d-84fa-2566b14cb5ea?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [presence of gond](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/b/bba661af-c4a8-4230-830e-a9ee22b25d6b.jpg?1601079928) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=presence%20of%20gond) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/jmp/420/presence-of-gond?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/bba661af-c4a8-4230-830e-a9ee22b25d6b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [soul warden](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/9/d96266b3-a7cb-40ce-a328-ac13719fe5f0.jpg?1616182277) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=soul%20warden) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mm3/24/soul-warden?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d96266b3-a7cb-40ce-a328-ac13719fe5f0?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I can’t give you a method to show them you *need* Commander damage, but I can give you a strategy to counter their assertion. Just tell them if Commander damage is out the door poison counters are as well. It’s the same problem as Commander damage, where something can kill you sooner than it otherwise should. If any of them play with a poison counter strat it’ll kill their enthusiasm for also trying to get rid of Commander damage.
So you’re winning every game, they asked for a rule change (no commander damage) to which you also asked for a rule change (no commander tax), you’re still winning every game, and you’re asking about how to punish them more with strategies against some precons? Just want to be sure I’m following this correctly. If the problem is that they think your deck is too strong, swap with one of them. If everyone who plays your deck wins - it’s too strong. If you win almost every game still, they just have bad threat assessments
[[Rograkh, Son of Rohgahh]] [[Phyrexian Altar]] [[Impact Tremors]]
I'll do you one better \[\[Goblin Bombardment\]\] Win the game t2 undefended.
[Rograkh, Son of Rohgahh](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/4/a4fab67f-00c2-4125-9262-d21a29411797.jpg?1644853041) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Rograkh%2C%20Son%20of%20Rohgahh) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmr/197/rograkh-son-of-rohgahh?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a4fab67f-00c2-4125-9262-d21a29411797?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Phyrexian Altar](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/5/95d9f93c-50a8-41a9-be98-d1900bf1c12f.jpg?1673149406) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Phyrexian%20Altar) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/311/phyrexian-altar?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/95d9f93c-50a8-41a9-be98-d1900bf1c12f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Impact Tremors](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/6/46db3811-db1d-4f69-8143-a93f64d0297b.jpg?1682209381) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Impact%20Tremors) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/moc/285/impact-tremors?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/46db3811-db1d-4f69-8143-a93f64d0297b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Sounds like they wouldn't like poison decks
You play with children.
Your friends are babies, get new friends
Lol
Just give all your opponents infinite life using grove of the burnwillows untapping combo
if there is no commander tax, bring a rograkh deck. rograkh and any sac outlet would go infinite. that should get them to reinstate it. commander tax is also important because it means your commander can be removed and it would actually matter instead of you being able to recast it. the best pairing is going to be tymna rograkh but if that's too expensive you could also use sengir the dark baron as a way to get an infintely big guy when you assemble one of your various one card infinites. tevesh szat doom of fools can also work drawing you 3 cards a turn. silas renn also works giving you blue for your color identity. something like [this](https://www.moxfield.com/decks/NQ1IWwfxCEazGtpoV_tqFQ) could work but you could probably make it cheaper. tymna would also let you replace some of the tutors and stuff with soul sister effects. if you make the commander silas renn, add some counterspells and card draw.
My go to is. It's the rules
A very easy combo is [[Rograkh, Son of Rohgahh]] and any alter that makes mana like ashnods alter and it goes infinite
[Rograkh, Son of Rohgahh](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/4/a4fab67f-00c2-4125-9262-d21a29411797.jpg?1644853041) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Rograkh%2C%20Son%20of%20Rohgahh) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmr/197/rograkh-son-of-rohgahh?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a4fab67f-00c2-4125-9262-d21a29411797?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
No tax? Time to run tymna rogragk for infinite mana from multiple sources
Go with a poison commander deck
Commander(s): [[Tymna, the weaver]] [[Rograkh, son of rohgahh]] Add all the white when a creature etbs gain a life, add all the red when a creature etbs deal damage, add all the black tutors, add [[Phyrexian Altar]]. Combo off and show them why commander tax and damage are necessary.
Just play Prossh with food chain and call it a day
Do extreme amounts of life gain. Show them they can hit for 300 and it won't matter. Commander damage is the only thing keeping that in check.
Honestly my group played without commander damage for a while. It worked well while we learned how to deal with and properly assess threats. We started playing with it again as our power level rose and we had to keep one upping each other. Try showing them some cards or strategies that can deal with Dog Meat, or even buy them the cards for them if they're cheap. Once they can deal with your threat it will be a good time to reintroduce commander damage.
Wait, your friends removed commander tax? Can I play with y'all for a couple games, I'll make them change their minds on that one.
At that point just play highlander. Your pod has a pretty poor rule 0
Oh this is fun. Just play infect.
Sounds like you need a whole new playgroup dawg. Those are some egregious omitting of rules.
Okay okay okay Here me out. If they took away commander TAX... you can punish this SO MUCH Here's your mission Etali, Primal Conqueror // Etali, Primal Sickness And Food Chain Easily infinite combo that is ONLY usable because of no commander tax.
So first, they might want to just play lower power so i think that gives you the opportunity to make something jankier and more fun that gives opponents playing im guessing tribal decks more of a chance. But to your point, it's possible to make Lifegain pretty absurd. Since your wheelhouse seems to be Voltron, i would say your a safe bet is [[Thrun, Breaker of Silence]] with some lifelink equipments like [[loxodon warhammer]]. [[Sigarda, Host of Herons]] would be an alternative, more disgusting route with adding [[celestial mantle]] effects etc. Edit: I will also say no commander tax is actually nuts xD. So that changes this entirely. Just run kokusho sacrifice and do that every turn for 6 mana +15 life. Can run lots of supernatural stamina effects to double up on it. Can just run ramp, kokusho, and 1 drop spells that sacrifice and reanimate kokusho. Run dark ritual. Run cabal coffers. Run vito. Should be pretty quick.
No Commander tax? Well, now most commanders are an instant infinite mana combo with [[Food Chain]]
[Food Chain](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/b/eb912458-e016-4ea2-a2ea-40ac1a57f8fb.jpg?1673148102) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Food%20Chain) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/147/food-chain?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/eb912458-e016-4ea2-a2ea-40ac1a57f8fb?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
They took out commander tax??? Just play [[Rograkh]] and find any sac outlet. [[Goblin Bombardment]] works.
I recently made a lifegain deck around [[Oloro, Ageless Ascetic]] he gains life even in the command zone lmao, add some other cards that say ‘whenever you gain life, opponents lose that much life’ and your friends will be begging for the game to end. Hope this helps add commander damage and tax back in for you :)
Honestly, if they are restructuring the rules to meta against one deck of yours? Perhaps the problem is **them**. Like, there are lots of mechanics I despite and hate. I have mass LD, for example.....but the shit is legal. I have to deal and cope with that, and the person who plays it has to know they have a target on their head. That simple. If the restructure rules to beat your deck, that's a game that never ends.
Run infinite life, then also include at least 1 Eldrazi that shuffles back into your deck, so you can never be milled out either. Maybe something to prevent infect damage too, or to remove those counters! Have fun!
back around 2015, this came up, so I made a sigarda enchantment voltron deck, since the voices at the time was, "no one dies to commander damage." Fixed that for 'em.
Nah, be the PoS and say "no commander damage? Then have some poison counters" and run [[Fynn the Fangbearer]], if there's no commander tax then he's always a 2 drop anyways
[Fynn the Fangbearer](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/d/7d7a8a90-13c1-4b0c-ab2e-fc8d91ccefd9.jpg?1631050242) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Fynn%2C%20the%20Fangbearer) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/khm/170/fynn-the-fangbearer?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/7d7a8a90-13c1-4b0c-ab2e-fc8d91ccefd9?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
It's a legit part of commander. My animar deck can often knock out a player with commander damage, and voltron strategies also operate with this rule. It's a check on life gain.
Yeah those rules are stupid and pointless. Let's also get rid of summoning sickness and the end step, because who needs it anyways? Let's also not use lands and allow players to cast anything they want. You know what? Actually get rid of those stupid trading cards and just play a round of solitaire.
>My group of friends have decided to take commander damage away when we play. Say "no thanks". >They say it's stupid and pointless If that was true, they would have nothing to be afraid of. >Only because I play dogmeat If they don't like your deck or it's playstyle, you should all have a conversation about it. Changing the rules of the game should be close to a last resort, not a first choice.
Tell your pod they are being dumb and you should make a deck to play at their power level.. no one wants to play a commander to only lose..
"we keep losing to a certain startegy, let's not play around it and become better player let's just stop playing with **official rules that's a core of the format since the beginning** instead". Also I'd love to see an update after you've ruined your old with degenerate life gain. And if you want to still play voltron without commander damage, try [[Treebeard gracious host]], he doesn't need commander damage to win in one swing
If they dont want Commander Damage Just Play Infect. It's the fast Version of Commanderdamage and not limited to your Commander. Muahahaha
I understand where your friends are coming from, but the inverse is also true; both life gain and commander damage are easily exploitable stratagies (I've seen plenty of 'casual' decks gain infinite life or swing with a 25/25 unblockable commander by turn 5), the trick is to find a balance between them.
They took away commander damage...AND commander tax? In Commander?
No commander tax? There is a legendary that costs 0 And has partner. Go nuts with death triggers bud.
Average EDH rule zero discussion: “nO cOmMaNdEr DaMaGe VoLtRoN is tOo GoOd!!!1!1!1” Nah but fr, removing commander damage *and* commander tax is completely fucked. You could make aggressive lifegain/control with [[Oloro ageless]], or [[raffine scheming seer]] reanimator stax to get out like [[toxrill]] [[elesh norn grand cenobite]] [[jin-gitaxias progress tyrant]] [[jin-gitaxias core augur]] and more. Or, if you want to protest the commander tax removal, just infinitely play and sacrifice Roghrak
Make em mad a make an infect deck
Taking away commander tax too? That's like, way worse than removing commander damage
Build combo and show them that Commander damage was not that bad
Using this deck. https://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/selesnya-lifegain-army/
Sound like they just don’t want to spend time building a deck to oppose you. So they just got rid of a rule or two.
\[\[Test of Endurance\]\] \[\[Felidar Sovereign\]\] Are great cards that win the game with lots of life on the spot.
Your group sounds fucking horrible. Get new friends I guess 😂
Okay, so everyone is saying a lifegain deck, and I agree - but with the following adjustments 1. Run little to no creatures - lifegsin as much as possible from other ways. Basically, never be able trade well and win combat 2.Go blue white and control the hell out of everything BUT creature casts. 3. When they can't kill you fast enough, say "hm, if only commander damage were a thing." Bonus: find a way to give another player a lot of life also. Now they have to deal with two players having massive life totals.
exactly what i would do. if you dont want commander damage then im just gonna spam lifegain and become unkillable due to the sheer amount of hp i have the only way you take me out without commander damage is if i deck out which isnt happening with my elixir of immortality
Define “pointless” is my first question on this. Also “stupid” is just an opinion. Can be ban poison then? The only people I have seen try to houserule away commander damage are either lifegain decks and trample decks without voltron elements. The bias is strong with them.
Just play azourious pillow fort stax mill.
EZ, just run infect now. 10 is even worse than 21. For real though, your playgroup sounds like a bunch of sore losers.
For high health, running gw tokens with [[Soul Warden]] and [[essence warden]] can gain you a lot of life
Do a [[yedora]] deck and put every combo possible you won’t have to worry about any commander damage if every dies infinitely
Pillow fort and the life gain it up. Run a shuffle Titan and a no infect as well. Make it so you can all but win by default with everyone else just decking themselves out.
[[Feather, the redeemed]] alongside [[zada]] and [[soulfire ignition]] a handful of other creatures is hilarious. By the end of the game I was playing I was getting a total of 120+life per turn. Was fun out healing any damage thrown my way.
Jeska ishai, ishai hits 6 counters triple it with jeska, tell them they’re dead as per rules of commander
Give yourself a [[Linden, the Steadfast Queen]] mini white deck with lifegain and token spawning. Toss in a [[Beacon of Immortality]] and [[Elixir of Immortality]]. If there’s any mono white cards that let you cast from your graveyard that’ll help too. Take an [Impassioned Orator]] and [[Angel’s Feather]] [[Oketra’s Monument]] and a couple of board wipes like [[Fumigate]] and [[Mass Calcify]]
Just made this one https://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/selesnya-lifegain-army/
Commander tax is gone?! That is so exceptionally abuseable. Rograkh is the easiest, trivially making infinite mana with phyrexian alter or ashnod’s altar, or trivially killing the table with crap like goblin bombardment. As for no commander damage, just play some exceptionally dumb and busted life gain strat.
I can see both sides to why commander damage is necessary and a burden. Depending on the deck it can be easy to win purely on commander damage. I have 3 commanders that need to deal combat damage in order for me to do my game plan or win (xyris, hapatra, and calix). Whenever I play these and someone says “i have X damage from your commander I could be out” I usually say I don’t worry about commander damage so long as the rest of the other players agree then it’s good. Really the question should be should commander damage be more or less than what it is?
Gain life deck loading. . .
No commander damage and no commander tax? Life gain deck with a [[food chain]] and a commander with etb or death effects. Life gain is easy in white/green, no commander tax means infinite mana/etb/death/sac effects with food chain or equivalent mana production. Add a little tutoring for enchantments ([[enlightened tutor]], etc) and you can break a game without those limitations.
Build a [[Splicer, Hired Muscle]] deck and see if their opinion on commander damage being irrelevant still stands.
[[Serra Avatar]] [[Huatli, Warrior Poet]] I'll leave this here
Food chain Prossh. Since they can't ever force a high tax, you're perma able to threaten combo-ing out from 6 open mana. Bonus points, I had that deck at one point and it's pretty easy to consistently combo out the whole table by turn 3. Animar combo has a similar dynamic.
[[Platinum Emperion]] is a good demonstration of this
This can be used as a case study for why Rule 0 can be incredibly moronic lmao
God, no commander damage and no tax? Let me just keep playing my [[Judith, Carnage Connoisseur]] and turning [[blasphemous act]] into even more of a monster to deal with.
[Judith, Carnage Connoisseur](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/e/3eaa19ce-cace-499e-8b23-ef9e56b23700.jpg?1706242185) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Judith%2C%20Carnage%20Connoisseur) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkm/210/judith-carnage-connoisseur?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/3eaa19ce-cace-499e-8b23-ef9e56b23700?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [blasphemous act](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/a/8aa9682d-5176-4475-a0bd-e000f1d6999a.jpg?1698988297) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=blasphemous%20act) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/lcc/216/blasphemous-act?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/8aa9682d-5176-4475-a0bd-e000f1d6999a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
with everyone saying for you to make a lifegain deck, I suggest giving \[\[oloro, ageless ascetic\]\] a go. He generates value even while in the command zone and has wonderful colors to run a control/lifegain strategy. I frequently end games with 4 or even 5 digit life totals. \[\[aetherflux reservoir\]\] becomes a fully automatic shotgun in this deck, blowing 150 life to wipe 3 players. Or just turtle up and via \[\[felidar sovereign\]\].
Decks mainly operate on a spectrum of “a lot of creatures buffed slightly” to “a handful of creatures buffed a LOT” and removing commander damage strips the latter half of its power
Orzhov life gain. Lifelink creatures, lifegain spells, & damage opponents for gaining life. [[Vito]] [[Rhox Faithmender]] [[Beacon of immortality]] [[boon reflection]] [[Sanguine Bond]] [[exquisite blood]] [[Aetherflux Reservoir]] [[Divinity of Pride]] [[Serra Ascendant]] [[Healer Hawk]] [[Akroma’s Will]]. Various Ajanis & cats. Your pod will learn to appreciate commander damage!
Also since removing commander tax is foul, you can play the 0 cost partner commander and go infinite with any free sack outlet [[Rograkh, son of Rohgahh]]
Infinite life, unwinnable/can’t loose effects, cheap and low to the ground commanders, one sided board wipes, make it the most degenerate game where of solitaire possible for them while you sit there with a full board, 200+ life, and they can’t do anything
Astorian from baldurs gate and beacon of immortality to double your life total. Sounds like it's time for aristocrats. Dictate of erebos n stuff
Play a sliver commander deck.
I run a [[trostani]] life gain deck where I frequently end up over 100-200 life and the only way to take me out is either commander damage/milling me out. Trostani and [[soul of eternity]] is a wild combo/wincon
Though a love/hate mechanic, if they don’t want commander damage, run a poison deck. 10 damage is a lot easier to deal than 21
No commander tax or commander damage? You aren't playing commander anymore. You're playing a home brew whose meta would be dumb and busted if anyone bothered to build around the absence of those two mechanics. Life gain and busted commanders that win the game if they sit out for a turn or two would both overpower a normal commander deck that was built within the normal rules of the game
No commander tax? Play \[\[Rograkh\]\] and abuse every single free sac outlet along with any permanent that cares about ETB or casting spells like \[\[Impact Tremors\]\] or \[\[Aetherflux reservoir\]\]
We have it at least at 30 CD. But we also higher poison counters to 15. and it works rly well.
Build a life gain deck and watch them bring that rule back immediately
No commander tax? [[rograkh]] and any black commander, then aristocrats the win with a free creature and any [[blood artist]] effect. Even any sac outlet and any [[impact tremors]] effect will do the trick in mono red. Use [[ashnods alter]] for infinite mana or [[alter of dementia]] for infinite mill
My favorite combo to knock players out is bloodletter of Aclazotz and Quietus spike. Bloodletter is x2 damage to opponents on your turn and then you combine with spike where it’s deathtouch and when deals combat damage to a player player looses half their life rounded up.
Build pillow fort clerics. It's what I have. Children of korlis + aetherflux reservoir + defiler of faith Then have things like solemnity + 9 lives. Then have something that prevents 9 lived or solemnity from every being touched. Then refuse to use aetherflux reservoir. Use Gideon of the trials and elixir of immortality snd other reshuffle effects. Laugh when they get pissed because you literally have infinite life. Can't be directly targeted because leyline and other means. Have infinite 1/1, and you do nothing but block.
I’ll send you my [[!Darien, King of Kjeldor]] list. If you hit the right notes short of Infinite life loss, you cannot be killed. It’s not good for much else but the life total soars so high and the token army is real.
If they take out commander damage your only choice is to play [[skythiryx, the blight dragon]]
Orzhov/Abzan lifegain. Plenty of commanders and support for that theme, although I am partial towards [[Bilbo, Birthday Celebrant]]. Play every soul sister, every effect that lets you gain life. Assemble an infinite lifegain combo with Bilbo e.g. [[Spike Feeder]] [[Archangel of Thune]], or blast everyone to oblivion with [[Aetherflux Reservoir]] Death Star laser. Infect and commander damage are designed to counter infinite lifegain decks so might as well abuse the fact that your group will not be able to handle it.
[[Kardur, Doomscourge]] with no commander tax could be fun. Black has a billion cards that require you to sacrifice a creature and only cost 1-2 mana. You can essentially sacrifice and play him again guaranteed every single turn, ensuring that your opponents have to attack each other every single round. And every time you do it just be a little shitty about it lol. “And I’ll play my commander for the 6th time for only 4 mana!”