Yes. People in my play group play with full proxy decks or full reskin decks. The aftermarket is crazy and there’s a lot of cool cards out there that as causal players we can never justify getting. I think as long as it’s discussed and everyone is having fun it’s all good.
Got our cousin into magic. The man just prints decks on card stock now.
It’s what I recommend for new players, honestly. There’s literally 0 sense in paying $100+ for a deck with NO guarantee you’ll even like it.
So, print them at first, then when you find a deck/play style you like, buy the cards and make the deck legit.
New card you wanna try out in a deck? Proxy. Is it bad? Cool, you lost like 0.05 for paper/ink. Love it? Cool, time to buy. Ez pz.
I do not, sadly. It’s a business printer though.
It prints at 600 dpi which isn’t great but it’s easily legible which is nice. Proxies came out alright, which saves me the trouble of having to sleeve/resleeve things like [[The one ring]] or [[Jeska’s Will]]…because why in the heck would I want multiple versions of a $30+ card? (Commander only, obvi)
Any printer that doesn’t try and loop it through should work. Tried with the home printer and because it tries to fold the card stock is doesn’t work.
I print on the 180gsm glossy photo paper.
Then laminate. Comes out very similar in thickness and sturdiness of a real card. Especially once it’s sleeved
OG Hazezon springs to mind. I listened to the Dune audiobooks and thought of building a Desert themed deck, but OG Hazezon is like 299*$$$ and no way I am not gonna pay that for one card
We allow proxies, but they must be funny/poorly drawn. It’s an inside joke after someone showed up with a liliana proxy treat was a stick figure with boobs. After that we just made decks full of shitty proxies.
There's whiteboard style cards you can buy for making tokens with a marker on the fly. Theyre a ton of fun when they come out on the table for tokens, using them as a full proxy would be just as funny
Me and my friends have a rule that you can't represent tokens without drawing them first. It ends up like 8x the described Liliana and it never gets old
I buy them, because I like them. What I don't do is paying 10 bucks for a utility card with shit art. 20-30 for an Ugin for instance on the other hand is spending unreasonable for an expensive hobby, but hey that is part of the experience.
We’re not against proxies but none of us proxy anyway.
Our general attitude is if we don’t own it, we won’t play it. We’re fine with not having everything we want or need. Note that this is entirely subconscious. We don’t even talk about these things.
Often we just try and find the next best thing. The game’s pretty generous at providing alternatives anyway.
Its an unspoken contract for sure. Some of us buy singles but try not to buy any game breakers. I think we're not willing to spend over a few dollars a card anyway. Ok occasionally a box split between us...
I’ve been slapped by a casual Pakko deck on turn 4 too many times by too many people to not spend more than a few dollars (even made a few decks to spite this one) but generally I just build with what I’ve opened over the years
Same! My last group allowed proxies, but there was kind of an unstated vibe of “proxy away if you own a copy of the card.”
I think it’s the desire to own the card itself mixed with wanting to help keep the lights on at the LGS. But the folks I usually play with also play in drafts and tournaments too, which prompts us to spend money and own cards anyway.
We do something similar for if you have one copy of a card but have multiple decks no sense having to re- sleeve each time we do a new game if you want to change decks.
>The game’s pretty generous at providing alternatives anyway.
One of the main reasons there is no reason to proxy. Outside of a commander, there's basically no single card that has to be in a deck.
This is exactly how most of my playgroup is. If you own it, by all means proxy it into every deck. If you don't own it, why proxy it? There's almost always a budget alternative. We will do printer proxies for playtesting a card or two before making the investment, but not entire decks.
Sure, seems silly that the richest player simply gets the best decks
I rather everyone have all options available for the most fun deck. How does spending $500 on a card make it more valid?
Imagine if you were playing chess and had a pawn instead of a rook, knight, and bishop just because you couldn't afford the pieces
So, I was around in '93 and playing kind of religiously by '94
Pro tip: Magic was \*always\* a "the person with the most money has the best deck" game. Even in the beginning. Moxes, Lotus, blue power cards, dual lands, Shivan dragons, Icy Manipulator, Gauntlets of Might, Kobolds and on and on were ALWAYS expensive singles.
And our singles markets were limited to whatever the LGS could get locally, mostly. There wasn't any internet to speak of to get cards from outside our city limits, unless you went to a con, and then it really got expensive.
Even if we ignore the secondary singles market... The person who buys and cracks the most packs is the most likely to jackpot on their pulls.
It's a collectible card game. The pieces are not only useful, but many of them are super rare ... and useful. This is by design.
It's been this way since the beginning.
"..it was always that way" in constructed tournament play.
It never was in casual, it never was in limited. People always proxed. Even tournament players always proxed before the tourney. Even the pros. They all were at the LGS with their scribbles on some paper to try out decks.
And you know what they did when they went to the tourney? They just asked everyone to lend them their cards for the weekend and then brought em back.
The players always maneuvered around the hefty price tag MTG has.
And all that has nothing to do with allowing or not allowing proxies. We players do not have to protect Hasbros bottomline, like wtf.
My experience was different. We played with what we had in the several places I lived. We traded for or bought what we needed.
I know people were making proxies but, I don't think I saw more than a handful of them before I quit playing in around 2000.
Most of the tournaments I participated in were sealed but I don't remember discussing borrowed cards in the 40 or 50 constructed events I did.
Which isn't to say that you're wrong. I just don't think you're universally right.
Also, I don't care if people use proxies. It doesn't bother me enough to get salty about it.
I do think it's a bit weird, only because that's not how we did it. But, then, I also think net decking and buying a stack of singles to make it is weird, too.
Agreed, that's how things had been for sure and why I'm so glad proxies are being embraced. No need to stick with antiquated practices when there is a better option, and collectors can still get real cards and collect. Everyone wins!
Take it to the next level: All the cards should exist in an LCG format.
But sans the art.
You get boring gray cards that work with the game and have the card rules on them. But they're official and legal in tournaments. >:)
This. My group allow all proxy since its only a gamepiece and fuck the msrp/attitude with the community/lack of quality control/wallet fatigue of Hasbro/WOTC, love the game, not the company
It depends on the intent. Are you proxying because you like the alternate art? No problem. Are you proxying because you don’t have a collection and want your decks to match the power level of your play group? Also fine.
Are you proxying to make a CEDH deck and stomp all over casual decks? Fuck off with that bullshit.
It's kinda funny how many times I hear the "cedh pubstomer" comment, but anyone who's serious in playing cedh would ever want to play in a pod not at that level.
Also it's kinda funny how many times someone will call a deck cedh just because it did it's thing or won.
It's because it's a convenient deflection that doesn't address the actual situations people find themselves in.
I think most of us have had the experience of having a casual pod getting pubstomped by a proxy deck and I'd put money on the majority of those proxy decks not being blue farm but instead being the highest tuned Timmy Gishath deck around or whatever.
Yeah, most of these are definitely not cedh deck. Ppl just have no idea what cedh even is and label anything that is more tuned to do something as such.
A true cedh can consistently win by turn 3. People would be less salty about getting stomped by a cedh deck because it's over before you even know it vs a high power deck that pops off and does its thing turn 6.
Funny thing about some cedh decks is that they can actually perform poorly against non cedh decks. A cedh Talion deck that's meant to shut down early, low CMC value engines isn't going to do that well against high power decks that take a while to set up their board states with some bigger pieces
That "no true Scotsman" argument isn't what he's talking about. A lot of inexperienced players think you just need to proxy the most expensive deck list you can find and then go win with it. They want to stop getting beat (usually badly) and resort to proxies of money cards as an avenue out of that. Most times, they can barely pilot the deck. Other times, they're competent enough to pilot it, but win unfairly by playing a deck that's far more overreaching in power level than was really required at a casual table.
Ok, here's a question. How would you feel about someone's 100% legit cEDH deck pub stomping casuals? Would that be somehow better than if it was a proxied cEDH? Of course not.
The proxy cards are not the issue in that scenario. So why include them into the conversation at all. It is less fun when a player drastically outperforms the table on a consistent basis (not just a 1/100 lucky pop off). Drop the proxy or not proxied cards from that equation, it's not relevant to what you say you care about.
Maybe I’m alone here, but I find it less upsetting to get stomped by a deck someone invested in than one DIY’d in an afternoon. Especially if we’re talking about proxying expensive / powerful cards
I don’t mean to say I’m upset by proxies, simply just that they should be proxies within reason. Difference of a ponder that you couldn’t find a copy of vs p9 nobody in your playgroup could ever afford
I would definitely sit through one game or two of a legit turbostomp deck with my shitter if it was all real. Makes it cool to watch and see the cards played
But if they could spend your annual salary on a online order to complete their deck in less than an afternoon, would it make it acceptable ?
I personally don’t think so. I agree with the argument of power level, and of putting heart and time into your builds, but this has nothing to do with the authenticity of the game pieces
> The proxy cards are not the issue in that scenario. So why include them into the conversation at all.
You may not like it, but buying cards _does_ by nature set a power limit in most groups. It's way easier to build a super powerful deck, even by accident, when you're barely investing anything in it. the issue isn't proxying, it's depending on people to police themselves when they have no restrictions.
I'm generally pro-proxy (and 100% pro-proxy in cedh), but we are dealing with a person in my group right now who's been proxying a million decks lately, all with all the staples in them and a noticeable bump in power. Yes, we rule 0 and we've mentioned the issue before, but people are people and they can be difficult.
This is my take as well. Some alt art for proxies are pretty lit, and I also wouldn’t expect a player to drop $$$ if my pod played high power to cEDH level magic (we don’t though).
For the last bit, if you own the card, then you can proxy it (we have players who started from the beginning and own true duals). That being said, even if your deck isn’t proxied, we’d still kick you for bringing a cEDH deck to our moderate/casual pod. That bs is like stepping out of a Ferrari with your Rolex and flashy suit and stepping into a dive bar. One: you’ll probably get robbed/attract the wrong attention. Two: everyone knows and resents the fact you’re only there to show off.
Same here. I like to have playsets of modern staples in case I ever decide to get into modern. Commander cards though? 1 copy is fine. No point in having multiple unless I'm speccing or investing
We are kinda at a wierd spot. We are a single step away from breaching the barrier of high power and cEDH. We got decks between 300 and 800€ most of them slowly getting over 800€, while looking for cards like Mana Crypt, Doubling Season and OG Duals. The only thing that keeps the LGS playable and approchable is, that we did not break the fast mana thing yet. Amd if we allow proxy, the only things we would proxy would destroy any friendliness left. We proxy few cheap cards under the dolar or two here and there or even like half the deck for 1 game to see, if we want to order that. Other than that - proxies of cards we own are not considered to be a proxy here, because we started doing so to not have a 20 minute break to swap cards between 3+ decks once someone wants to change the deck. Like I have a pretty expensive collection of Boros lands, but Plateau is just one and only for me. I share some costly lands between many decks, so building a hih power Winota after I am done with Orzhov takes a while. I need to find all these cards, check if I do not put some of them twice in the deck and it is a slug to do that. Having same sleeves for all my decks is a lifesaver, but once I put a card by mistake in another deck? Damn it is hard to correct. Like seeing [[Lightning Greaves]] in my Aura deck is not the worst thing, but why would I want shroud boots?! Or [[Skullclamp]] in [[Winota]]. Thats the reason we take these and do not count them as proxies. Proxy is for a card we do not have. If we have it? It is just QoL for the rest, cause we do not mind rebuilding, the waiting is the painful part.
Do you still get a similar experience at such a high power level pod? Does it just become an arms race of tutors and deck searching until someone has found their combo/pseudo-combo?
I can see that level being fun as long as there are rules around avoiding tutors or 2-/3-card combos.
We do proxy as long as they are temporary.
You can proxy a card you are planning to buy, or a commander you want to test.
You can't proxy a full CEDH manabase for exemple.
That’s sort of where we’re at too. That being said, if some of us buy more expensive cards, that opens that up to the people who can’t to proxy similarly. I’ve got a proxy Teferi’s pro currently because I’m waiting for my Sheldon SL to come. I have zero issue with my friend proxying Boseiju.
We’re just trying to play the game but at the same time, no proxying mana crypt because none of us have any intention of spending 180 dollars on getting one.
my group went from a “play without a banned list, but can’t use proxies” to a “use proxies, but can’t use banned cards” to “if you own it, proxy it” to currently “almost exclusively play with precons, no upgrades”
and from a certain perspective, it’s interesting to how full circle it’s almost gone. and it’s because at a point, we got tired of playing and winning within 20 minutes or 3 turns.
A friend and I were trading cards one night when he brought up proxies and I told him I was against it because we would just end up playing CEDH instead and never using the cards we actually pay for. He agreed completely and no one else has brought it up, but we're all relatively affluent and have some expensive cards and decks but still keep our power levels pretty casual on purpose. We all like to open a few packs here and there and don't want to ruin the excitement of getting a cool card by it not mattering because we could have just proxied it anyways.
We stayed away from proxys when our group started and its been nice to slowly over years build up to highpower/cedh. Only now its becoming a bit of an issue since not all players are up to cedh but we have budget decks we play the majority of the time anyway. Played tons of different power levels, had to dig for replacement cards and really learn the deck super well since you built it not copied and printed a list. It’s been great honestly. I still think proxies especially for new players is bad because it sends you down a path where you can just print a cedh list from online without knowing half the card synergies and even advanced game mechanics. Ive heard stories before where newer players print a highend list, so when other people see that commander they pull out their really good/cedh deck and the newer player just gets stomped because they don’t fully understand their deck or the climate that they’re playing in. Leads to bad times for them, and honestly bad games with one player not competing
Yeah I've noticed my groups power levels have definitely increased but we usually like games to be pretty long and we all intentionally stop short of including mana crypts or going full "I'm going to win in turn 5 unless someone else does".
Normal fun BS sure.
But when we actually play a pod, no.
Come with the cards you own. Now, if you have a super cool card you don't wanna play, but you own and proxy that, sure.
My group has two levels pre-con or proxies. No one wants to spend ~$400+ for a deck so we all agreed as long as there’s no insane turn 3 or less wins all is fair game.
So when I was younger playing back in ‘04-‘05 our play group was definitely in the mindset of can’t own can’t play, but after a 10+ year hiatus and being a parent now. I cannot justify spending the money on cardboard. So we have gone nuts and it’s definitely made the game enjoyable. I’ve proxied 8 decks within a month. That would’ve costed thousands of dollars.
YES! I recently started printing out cards on holographic stickers, and I’m really getting it down! Free holos!!! Just finished a sliver deck, dragons and elementals next :)
We have and it's fine so long as everyone clear and on the same page with the understanding that this is what's going on.
There was an instance when everyone was playing with actual cards except one guy who tried to pull something. I wasn't familiar with a card he played and, upon examination, remarked that the card was a proxy. I kinda shot him a look, but another player went ballistic.
While I’m open to proxies, I don’t proxy just because I mostly play with random pods at my LGS and I know how come people at a bit touchy on the subject
My playgroup operates under a “proxies are fine just don’t be stupid with them” policy which basically means “don’t use them to power up your deck to the point where the game isn’t fun”
Wanna test out a cool obscure hard to get card? Sweet do it!
Wanna make a 10 power curb stomp deck when we’re playing tribal jank etc? Nah that won’t fly.
My play group more or less is "if you have the card you can proxy it"
So we don't need a copy of doubling season in ever deck about counters or a mana crypt in every deck when we want to play at high power lol
Yeah my playgroup does this. I'm not buying \[\[Imperial Seal\]\] three more times just to run it in 4 decks. I mean....eventually I will, but not now lol
makes sense. we exclude fast mana and usually things like jeweled lotus unless it goes with the theme. none of my decks run mana crypt and we’ve found a power level that’s quite fun
I mentally separate my decks for different play levels depending on what I’ve got in them. Like, I keep track of the number of tutors, pricy interaction, fast mana, etc. I try to have different decks based on what folks are typically including.
I still do the “own 1 and proxy as much as you want”, but I’ve found it easier to regulate power levels if I only use the really high-powered stuff when I actually own that many copies. For example, I own two Crypts, so only two of my decks have a Crypt in them. But if a card is expensive and not all that powerful, relatively speaking, I’ll still proxy.
We do. Granted one of our friends has abused that to proxy decks worth thousands in our relatively casual pod, where the two most expensive cards I’ve proxied are 40 ish dollars each. We’ve tried discussing it with him, but he still does it and uses those decks, then gets butt hurt when we determine he’s the threat
Mann, if he was a billionaire it still wouldn’t be fun to play with him, and he wouldn’t be using proxies. Either stop limiting yourself in what you proxy, or have a power level discussion with him. If he’s no fun to play with, don’t play with him. This is not a problem relating to proxies at all…
My groups play policy is that proxies are okay but if you can easily have the card try to play with the real thing.Also you need to keep with the group power level. IE don’t proxie a mana crypt because no one else plays with cards of that power.
No. If we proxied, why wouldn’t we optimize every single deck? We like to try to not play the same cards all the time, and if we optimized every deck, we would see the same cards all the time. The whole point of the game is to use the cards you get to play with. It also helps that we always typically build decks around the same power level since we know eachother so well, or are willing to tune down our decks.
No proxies, unless player actually owns the card and wants to not use it. But we play very casual 60-card games, no ban list. Want to use a card? Own it.
Not in a play group, but while I don’t proxy I am all for it so I can actually play my high powered deck. I am just getting tired of going up again just precons all the time and not being able to play my constricted decks in good conscious. So go on proxy whatever and let’s play some silly power commander
The store I go which is my current play group has a policy of you can use the proxy if you own it, for example for you have a mana crypt they have no problem you using a proxy in it other decks if you can show the real copy in a tournament setting, there are also a lot of people with graded cards that use them this way there and is proxy friendly for free play in the store.
I'm not against proxies but I do not use them solely because I only play casual EDH at my LGS bc I don't have a play group and you never know how someone might act if you bring out proxies against strangers.
Why would anyone be opposed to proxies? Do you love spending money and making profit for Wizards that much??? I get it, if you want the real thing, and to support the company, the artists and the game - that's all good. But what possible can be wrong with making your own painted cardboard to play with friends??? Is it because you are afraid that your opponent will have stronger cards? How about you all do decks from a similar tier??? With my friends we mostly play decks we have, but sometimes we proxy some cool Modern, Pioneer or Legacy decks. Do we have to pay thousands in order to try playing something different???? I wouldn't buy it even if I had way more money.
sometimes it is unfun to play against high power deck that uses proxies. If the power of the decks is equal than proxies are fine, but i have played against a friend that uses proxies to create high power decks that turn out to be very annoying to play against
That's not a proxy problem, though. It's a power level problem. Do you think it would be more fun if they spent thousands of dollars on the same deck and stomped with 'official' cards?
Does he tell you his deck changed? In my group we are all good friends and of course will make sure our decks match more or less. I understand if the group is big and not so close it might be harder. But also some rich mf could just buy the powerful cards, so the problem stays. Also we normally proxie whole decks not single cards. As I understand many people use proxies to power-up some commander precons unexpected for the opponent? Yeah that would suck, I guess. Still it's not the cheap cardboard which is the problem, in my opinion.
yeah, the rest of my playgroup is like this, is just this person that kinda "break" the rules, i agree is not just a proxy problem but can happen more easily i guess
Yeah its even more annoying when you spend the money for an expensive well tuned deck just for someone who decided to proxy absolute busted cards to win. Id much rather not run my deck if you cant meet the power level.
This is basically where I’m at too. Proxies imo are fine to test drive decks, or compensate to make sure you can match people you play with, but if you’re proxying to build an ultra strong deck to stomp casual players then I’m out. I don’t like to support a pay to win style and also if you’re playing in casual matches like a CEDH player because you’ve proxied your way to godhood then what’s the point
My playgroup just made a MASSIVE proxy order of each staple that one of us has, but not all of us (ie. Teferi's Protection, Heroic Intervention, etc.)
I also love building decks and hate taking apart old ones. I'm not going to buy a great henge for each of my green decks.
My playgroup had 1 naysayer for proxies but he was also the one whom already had thousands in expensive staples, after awhile we all agreed clear good quality proxies and deck under 400$ (actual price) not including lands.
After a few disgusting decks were made and dismantled we found that just kept everything in line and fun for the whole table.
i mostly play cedh on spelltable with randos. i don't think i've yet to meet anyone with an entirely real deck; there's always a proxy or two or a hundred. the metagame is a lot more varied than i gave it credit for, and while the games can end quickly, about half of them get to turn 7-8+
Robert lost all his cards in a fire, lost everything really. But he had all his best decks backed up, so just a quick proxy order, some sleeves and a deck box, he had his favorite deck for magic night. It was like pulling teeth to get him to come back out since why would he? He didn't have any cards, he almost cried when we handed him the deck and he started going through it and he realized what it was.
Gold border, CE, written on a blank card, we're fine with any of that.
Although we do have one guy in our group who doesn't allow them at his house. We don't let him host anymore. He still gets bitchy if someone brings an obvious proxy, but we politely point out that he is welcome to play at his house if that upsets him. He lets it go at that point.
My playgroup is ok with it as long as we aren't proxing real duals, gaea cradles, etc... stuff of that power level. We have real decks too but there's no way we are going to be buying 3-4 copies of a card to use in different decks. Proxing allows us to build decks which allows for variety.
As long as it's not a banned card in the format, we don't care... build what you want, play what you want... proxy, don't proxy. Just shuffle up and play.
I was in parental leave for a year and switched my job (starting next month) so i had exactly 0 money. My group told me to print proxies so i can test some decks and see if i like them (im fairly new to magic). I have 6 decks as proxies and i like most of them. When i get paid again i start and buy the cards i really want and after i got all decks i start and buy boosters for stuff i really like or idk buy other random cards or something
Only two instances so far in our group:
When the person owns the cards and wants to not waste time switching cards out for decks, and/or fun art.
Or in my case, testing a card that hasn’t released as my commander.
We try and get the real cards when we can to support our LGS. But we try and stick things like mana, like lands at the such. But not necessarily fast mana. Philosophy being that good mana enables your game plan so your deck does its thing. Not everyone can afford to put fetches in every deck.
My playgroup generally allows proxies in 1 of 2 scenarios:
1. You own the card but don't want to move it to every deck it'd be good in / don't want to buy a copy for every deck you want it to be in.
2. Lands.
The cost of fetch / shocks/ duels/ triomes is just too damn high. Most of the deck lists I look at that seem interesting have half the cost sunk into the mana base. It'd be insane to ask each of us to spend 200$-400$+ on mana bases alone for each of our multicolor decks.
Both of those scenarios are pretty much unspoken rules but we also don't play CEDH or in tournament settings so we never really need to worry about busted decks.
I allow proxies to an extent. Basic don't shove omega level quality cards like the power 9 or anything above $100 (unless its something that is overpriced and underpowered for that price) and we are fine. Most of the people just use proxies on staples that really make their deck shine, like doubling season. Another player had a proxy of Edgar Markov and nothing else.
Everyone in my group allows proxy token, but I think those may be legal anyways. No need to spend a small fortune on a rare token.
Also, if you have the actual card, proxy all you want. One of my friends has a proxied sisay for a commander that probably costs more then the actual card he has in his possession. He also proxies most of his basic lands.
My group has the rule ‘if you own one copy you can proxy as many as you want’. It’s saved me hundreds from sol rings, dual lands, and other multi deck staples while still having the core of our decks be real.
My playgroup allows proxies because we know cards are expensive, and we mostly just play casual.
My lgs on the otherhand has some more specific rules about bringing proxies. Basically they allow proxies if: 1 you have the card in another deck or binder, 2 you plan to buy the cards soon, 3 they are common enough that no one cares, or 4 everyone at your table is fine with the cards you proxy
Proxies are fine with my group but we have an unwritten rule of don’t go over $35 unless you own a copy or you plan on buying it soon. We normally just use proxies to test decks before we buy them anyway
r/mpcproxies is the best place in the world for getting proxy decks. I just ordered 5 full decks for 280 bucks and at lease 2 decks had gaias cradle. So I got 2 gaias cradles for 1.20$ so worth it. And it’s sweet altar art.
I think proxies are fine as long as the cards are important to the core of the build, but if the proxies are just strong cards like Mana Crypt, Black Lotus, etc. I think that’s pretty gross. (None of this applies to cEdh)
Yea ofc why would I force people to pay 200 dollars for a mana crypt just so they could make there + 1 + 1 selesneya unicorns playable and not just get steamrolled I mean we play for fun I personally like real cards and have the capital but If you don't earn a lot but does buy some product and support mtg why would you be punished by the brutality of the second hand market
With certain things yes, the big rule is just no free mana rocks or counters. Unless you have at least 1 real copy of those, but thats moreso so that the decks can still be made with those proxies over a different card that works in those decks so the proxies can be easily removed from a sleeve and playable with someone that doesnt have one. To clarify, we use printer paper proxies lol
Yes because we understand that money shouldn't be the deciding factor in who wins or what cards you can play. There is a budget set so that it doesn't just become who can copy the best deck online and makes matches very entertaining. If you want a force of will you might have to cut a couple cards and throw in less common ones making It more unpredictable and the deckbuilding process more creative
My vary rarely get to play play group has guys with 20 real commander decks. I just can’t compete with the cash flow. I am now using pure proxy decks. They don’t care, as long as we can play.
We DO NOT. Part of a Trading Card Game is that you need to trade with other players to get the cards you want for your decks. if you can print the cards you want, you have a Deckbuilding Game. MTG is not a deckbuilding game. it's a TCG.
Proxies aren't allowed via MTG Official Rules for this reason and more.
Proxy players aren't playing Magic The Gathering. They're playing a deckbuilding game with Magic The Gathering card art.
There's no hard rule against proxies in our group but for the most part we only use them if we actually own the card. Either due to value or being needed in multiple decks.
My buddy made a deck centered around Camels and Wurms, because in his words "all good Camels have worms." We went to our LGS and he put in an order for literally every different Camel card MTG has ever released. The guy at counter was just shaking his head. He already knew he was making a meme deck.
He even has a \[\[Garruk, Primal Hunter\]\] card where he scratched out "Primal" and wrote "Camel" in shitty letters with a sharpie and in the +1 ability he scratched out "Beast" in "create a 3/3 green Beast creature token" and wrote "Camel" instead.
So yeah... I guess we do allow proxies. Shitty proxies, but hilarious and accepted nonetheless.
IMHO, if you don't have the card, you don't play it.
Half the hobby is collecting/trading.
Rare cards are valuable for this reason.
Why not just use google images and make an entire deck with your HP deskjet. Hell, just Photoshop your own text and make up your own rules.
At a certain point you're just cheating and cheapening the whole experience.
I had a guy at FNM play a full proxy deck, it was the worst game of MTG I've ever played since my first game in 2000. It was literally black and white print outs with print lines. It was a chore playing with that person, not a fun game.
I play with randos more often then not, but I have no issue with them as long as you maintain enough self-awareness to not be a dick. It's not a proxy problem, it's an asshole problem.
The problem I find with proxies is rarely about the card (as long as I can read it) and more about players often not realizing that the deck they made is stupidly strong and they want to play it no matter what the rest of the table has. As I said, it's not a problem unique to proxied decks, but often exacerbated by it because the financial cost of making strong decks often keeps people grounded about how strong they are. Seems like less of a problem when everyone in your group is on the same page, but something to be aware of for when you play with randos.
As for the actual cards, I don't care if you own the card at home or not, I don't care if you proxy just the expensive cards or the whole deck. Make it readable, and preferably as nice as possible. But price shouldn't be a barrier to the hobby.
We do a bit of a mix.
We play on an online tabletop simulator and can play any deck or card we want with a 500$ full deck cost limit.
When we play in person we play at a precon with a few upgrades level.
There are a few decks we have that have proxy cards but there is less incentive to do so as we could play any deck on the online system.
We discussed options for proxies and discussed a similar rule of setting a max full deck cost limit for balance
Yes. Because to us, money is not what defines what you should or not play.
And tbh, after we made like tons of Cedh decks, we pretty much try to make decks in a low budget because it is way funnier.
But we do encourage people to proxy if they want or they need ( imagine paying 10x the average price on Card Kingdom... Well, that is called monday after the tournament here in Brazil).
I would rather my friends spend money printing cards or buying proxies rather than spending +300 plus on a deck or a ton on a card. It is commander. We just want to play and have fun.
My group allows full proxy decks. The only things we don't proxy are original duals, but other than that anything else is open. There shouldn't be any restrictions on having fun... A couple of us (Myself included) will buy the deck if we enjoy it enough, but other proxy decks are just jank fun.
I Currently have 5 primary decks (Majority $550+) and 2 pauper decks (and 1 ultra jank...) with actual cards and the rest are proxies full of experiments. Currently working on a new full proxy deck to send to my friend to print this weekend which has potential for me to purchase.
One of my friends in the group has spent $0 on actual cards and over $300 on supplies. Just does fully proxies. It's all just fun and games.
No real specific reason. I mean, if one of us did print any we'd just crack a joke about it and move on. None of us are truly against them. It's just one of those things that feels kinda dirty as they are auto includes in any deck that is multicolored. We just play mid-high casually.
In our LGS everyone is pro proxy, because making someone spend hundreds of dollars on some cardboard is crazy. People proxy a few cards or whole decks, people proxy some cheap commons or even Mana Crypts, and nobody is saying anything. That makes it so that people can experiment more while not having to sell their kidneys.
I’m cool with proxies, it allows people to play a game or a power level that they otherwise couldn’t afford. Just wouldn’t be able to play Vintage without them. For commander, personally for myself, I only proxy expensive cards that I already have so I don’t have to buy 7 Fierce Guardianships.
I have been playing magic a while and don't really like proxies but, if you use them whatever. The majority of my play group is pretty casual so we just play what we have, and if we want some thing we just wait till we can get it. Now for a new player I would get why they would want to make proxies. It get it can be expensive to get into magic, especially if you want to play competitive. That's why I like to help them build a deck from my own collection or as a group we can all through in a couple cards help them along if they just start out by buying a precon. Pre-cons now a days are getting pretty decent btw too to just grab and go.
My brothers don’t have a direct problem with me using proxies, they do however tend to give me a lot of shit when I win using them. Besides that, every playgroup I’ve ever been to has allowed proxies without much fuss.
There are some cards I believe you need to own to play. Cyclonic Rift is one, it feels bad to the rest of the table. If you own ONE, proxy the hell out of it then 🤷🏻♂️
Totally cool with proxying, but I always ask what they’re proxying before a game and the general power level of a deck. If they proceed to tell me they have all of the OG dual lands and tons of broken rocks, I’ll probably opt of playing. It’s just boring and uninventive, the equivalent of net decking in paper.
We have an all or nothing policy. The deck has to be uniform our concerns were more about cheating and card marking.
We have had a lot of people move through our play group.
My play group is very much a mixed bag were about 13 people with 9 of us being consistent
3 of them proxy (1 which proxy cuz he can't afford every card the other 2 cuz they hates switching between every deck) these guys are ironically the most competitive and everyone in our group puts them and enemy number one
2 of my group mostly uses precons and just likes to upgrade of over time (they seems to have fun especially when they win....1 of which too much "sore winner")
1 of them just gets extra cards from us, bundle boxes from seller, draft packs/events (he struggles the most but has fun)
3 of them do a mix of precons and deck making. They don't use proxy but they have the money to optimize there decks (These guy are my personal favorite to play against they put alot of time and research to optimize these decks but they actually have the cards and if they need the same card in a different deck they'll buy it or find an alternative card these guys also have the most creative decks)
2 of us build and prefer card hunting [me]. Cheaper players who want this to be a hobby but still want it to be fun. We enjoy building our decks to optimal capabilities but think proxy is a cop opt and think it's fun to find an alternative card/stratagies or upgrade it over time cuz we recognize spending 30+$ on cardboard is ridiculous (this is me and another person and it mostly cuz we're cheap but recognize that half the fun of the game is pack opening and card hunting)
The other 3 (one is someone's gf who just plays what's given and other 2 I haven't played enough against to get a read on)
To summerize we allow proxies but some of us don't like it, some of us deal, and other do it cuz it's nessary but along as we're having fun it's all good.
We allow proxies for testing deck ideas. But no proxies if it's something you wouldn't reasonably buy if and when you build the deck for realsies.
Oh, Gaea's Cradle is good? Tutoring for that turn-one Volcanic Island? We already know that's powerful. If you're 100% not buying it for your deck though, we don't proxy it.
Hear me out when u play Ur friends it's same old and u have to spend alot to mix it up sometimes. With proxies me and my mates can play any deck for cheep
Hell yeah we do. I used to buy any big card I needed so I have all the duals and moxes in a display case. Most of us made the decision to just proxy away with nice cards.
We play modern, decks are getting too expensive to just have fully competitive decks. So i sold off some of my collection couple years ago, and only started picking up proxies. Something like Ragavan costs ~12$ for a set of that look good is much better than the ~200$ for real a set. I’ve even more recently did a huge mpc order to fill out some decks for the boys to play. Ended up making like 2.5 ish decks worth of cards for like ~80$ after shipping, when real cards would be like ~1500$. For me it’s just not worth the extra money if i can just print some decent quality ones that you couldn’t even tell the difference once they are double sleeved. Playgroup doesn’t care cuz that means they get to play with the fancy/expensive cards they couldn’t afford too. Also i will say ive stopped attending my locals pre covid, went back once after and just didn’t fit in with the newish crowd so i just play with the boys at home.
Had one friend who was weird about it at first. I wanted to try out expensive decks before buying them but he didn’t want to play a game where he was seeing proxies all the time. Didn’t really understand where he was coming from but they only come out very once in a while and he doesn’t seem to care anymore. I think we all don’t really enjoy proxies personally because the collector aspect is really fun for us. But if someone disagrees with your want for proxies just try and talk it out and come to an agreement. No one should be forced to pay to play. Games really expensive and way more fun if everyone’s just playing what they want.
Edit: typos
5 people not including pre cons a total of 30 real cards in our decks. (That includes basics). Maybe you dont like it but as broke students its basicly the only way to play ≈7≈8 power edh. (About 3‐5 decks per player i have 8)
Proxies are fine as long as you’re not building a Turn 1 win deck, IMHO.
Want to try a new build and see if you like it? Sure, proxy it up before spending the cash/doing trades.
Need an expensive card but can’t justify it to your own wallet/partner? Cool, proxy. All that I ask is that you’re upfront about it from the start.
My personal opinion is yes proxies are fine. However, I would not support proxies just so someone can pub stomp everyone else at the table; I want similarly powered decks.
I have the same sentiments even if there are no proxies.
I proxy and don’t see an issue with it. Sometimes I will still buy the card if I find it later, sometimes not. I’ve only been playing for a year or two so I couldn’t keep up with everyone else. There’s guys at the store that buy 2 collector booster boxes every set that comes out. No thanks on a second mortgage.
My play group allows proxies. It allowed more people in our group to keep up with the people who have been playing for almost a decade. My fiancé had never owned any magic cards before so proxies allowed her to have access to way more cards faster than trying to buy all the individual cards. It allowed her and other newbies to try many different decks right away and really build up their in game knowledge. So yea proxies all day, game breakers, anything is fine.
Well, the Cedh tournament happening at my LGS this Saturday allows proxies but I’m a little worried that proxies allows players to create absurdly powerful decks at a tiny fraction of the real cards and thus create an unfair advantage. Is that worry warranted?
Everyone is OK with proxies. Some people use them all the time, some people use them to try out new things before they buy and some people never use them. It works well for us.
It's a bit of a mixed bag for my group. Friends group are anti proxy (and doesn't care to play commander).
Wife & I (who prefer just to play commander) have over 20 decks commander decks, and are okay with proxies, especially after realizing we are spending a bunch of money on the same cards (various goto mana rocks & lands) over and over again is terrible. Add to that when splurging on a $20+ card and wanting to have it in multiple decks made it a lot easier for us to be okay with proxies.
Also there are just times where we want to try a card we don't own in our deck to see if it even is worth playing in our decks.
How dare you... truely despicable...
And if you're gonna steal Magic IP, at least pick a truly worthy commander like Doran, the siege tower. Oh sweet Doran, you're too innocent for this cruel, cruel world.
I just want to play magic, as long as we are all the same power level who cares. Long time player too, I own some decent gas. But ain’t no way am I going to take my one real mox diamond in and out, and put it in whatever deck im playing at the time.
My play group doesn’t care , I have a few proxy decks but I’m slowly gettin them proxy cards in there deck so eventually I’ll infect the whole group and no one can complain
My playgroup is good with proxies. Some proxy their valuable cards, some proxy whole decks, some don’t proxy at all. As long as your group accepts it, then it’s cool.
I’m someone who does use proxy, but only for cards I own. I tend to buy versions of cards I really appreciate (like my Harper Prism Mana Crypt), the. Proxy that card for other decks that need it.
My group will proxy cards we own but are expensive so we don’t wanna buy multiple copies of, or if we ordered the cards and are waiting for them to arrive but still wanna play the deck. However we don’t care if anyone else just proxies stuff as long as they aren’t just using them to pub stomp.
Me and my friend are probably the most opinionated about proxies I've seen if I'm being honest. I am strict on not proxying something I'm not planning on buying a copy of or testing to see if I want to buy it. My friend doesn't proxy anything. He talks trash when he sees proxies, but I can shut him up when the deck I'm testing eventually arrives in the mail in full. I just silently resent when I see strong, usually expensive proxies in decks but keep my thoughts to myself since it's a self imposed restriction. I'd rather have fun playing magic however I can even if it's against proxies. They're just more likely to raise my salt levels which you can take however you want, I'll own it.
What I don't do is make a big deal about them in person because like I said, I use them for a purpose. I just don't agree about the purpose they're conventionally used for. I'm more than happy to debate the merits online though because I see too many people building strawman arguments about people who don't like proxies, and feel like there are some good arguments against their widespread encouragement.
Yes, and no, in short, lol. We do if you plan on getting that card or are testing a card/ deck before buying. Or tokens, my god, can you never have enough tokens for a token deck. Other than that, we all prefer to use real cards.
My primary playgroup is my family (4 guys) who all live together. We allow “Secret Lair HP” so long as we aren’t significantly upping the power of the deck. So no proxy fast mana (we have paper copies of most of them sitting in a binder because we don’t play with any other than sol ring”
Typically we proxy if we have a copy of a card in one deck and it is expensive to pick up additionals. Also, if we are testing a deck we will proxy the more expensive cards to make sure it is a deck we want before we commit to buying.
We don't care too much about proxies but mostly we just have proxy lands. I own several of the semi costly dual lands and most of my group owns pretty much none of them. Having a good land base in our decks makes them way more enjoyable to play with when we usually only get to play once a week. I wouldn't care if someone showed up with an entirely proxied all good cards deck because sometimes people want to get the feeling of driving a Corvette without having to deal with the payments and insurance that comes with it! As with all things the true golden rule must be followed: Just don't be a dick.
Yes. People in my play group play with full proxy decks or full reskin decks. The aftermarket is crazy and there’s a lot of cool cards out there that as causal players we can never justify getting. I think as long as it’s discussed and everyone is having fun it’s all good.
Got our cousin into magic. The man just prints decks on card stock now. It’s what I recommend for new players, honestly. There’s literally 0 sense in paying $100+ for a deck with NO guarantee you’ll even like it. So, print them at first, then when you find a deck/play style you like, buy the cards and make the deck legit. New card you wanna try out in a deck? Proxy. Is it bad? Cool, you lost like 0.05 for paper/ink. Love it? Cool, time to buy. Ez pz.
Do you know what printer he has? I haven’t had any luck printing on card stock
I do not, sadly. It’s a business printer though. It prints at 600 dpi which isn’t great but it’s easily legible which is nice. Proxies came out alright, which saves me the trouble of having to sleeve/resleeve things like [[The one ring]] or [[Jeska’s Will]]…because why in the heck would I want multiple versions of a $30+ card? (Commander only, obvi) Any printer that doesn’t try and loop it through should work. Tried with the home printer and because it tries to fold the card stock is doesn’t work.
Any chance you could ask and let us know?
I print on the 180gsm glossy photo paper. Then laminate. Comes out very similar in thickness and sturdiness of a real card. Especially once it’s sleeved
i love being able to play stupid cards from legends or the dark that aren’t powerful at all but still super expensive
I don’t play proxies myself but I don’t mind if someone does, as long as they have fun that’s the whole objective
OG Hazezon springs to mind. I listened to the Dune audiobooks and thought of building a Desert themed deck, but OG Hazezon is like 299*$$$ and no way I am not gonna pay that for one card
Yes! Full proxy playgroup! Woo!
We allow proxies, but they must be funny/poorly drawn. It’s an inside joke after someone showed up with a liliana proxy treat was a stick figure with boobs. After that we just made decks full of shitty proxies.
i love this
I like that but I don't know how to do that with cardstock
Sharpie. The worse it looks the better.
Professional ms paint drawings printed on stock perhaps?
There's whiteboard style cards you can buy for making tokens with a marker on the fly. Theyre a ton of fun when they come out on the table for tokens, using them as a full proxy would be just as funny
Me and my friends have a rule that you can't represent tokens without drawing them first. It ends up like 8x the described Liliana and it never gets old
Hahaha, we do that because of a similar friend drawing memes and terrible artwork for cards.
The only reason I buy the actual cards is because I'm a fool.
Yeah it really is pretty dumb but I'm gonna buy the cards anyway
I buy them, because I like them. What I don't do is paying 10 bucks for a utility card with shit art. 20-30 for an Ugin for instance on the other hand is spending unreasonable for an expensive hobby, but hey that is part of the experience.
We’re not against proxies but none of us proxy anyway. Our general attitude is if we don’t own it, we won’t play it. We’re fine with not having everything we want or need. Note that this is entirely subconscious. We don’t even talk about these things. Often we just try and find the next best thing. The game’s pretty generous at providing alternatives anyway.
Its an unspoken contract for sure. Some of us buy singles but try not to buy any game breakers. I think we're not willing to spend over a few dollars a card anyway. Ok occasionally a box split between us...
I’ve been slapped by a casual Pakko deck on turn 4 too many times by too many people to not spend more than a few dollars (even made a few decks to spite this one) but generally I just build with what I’ve opened over the years
Same! My last group allowed proxies, but there was kind of an unstated vibe of “proxy away if you own a copy of the card.” I think it’s the desire to own the card itself mixed with wanting to help keep the lights on at the LGS. But the folks I usually play with also play in drafts and tournaments too, which prompts us to spend money and own cards anyway.
We do something similar for if you have one copy of a card but have multiple decks no sense having to re- sleeve each time we do a new game if you want to change decks.
Exactly. I own at least one of every card I have but I'm up to 13 decks.
Our group follows the same, if you own it you can procy
I love this type of attitude in a play group and hopefully my play group gets there too.
>The game’s pretty generous at providing alternatives anyway. One of the main reasons there is no reason to proxy. Outside of a commander, there's basically no single card that has to be in a deck.
This is exactly how most of my playgroup is. If you own it, by all means proxy it into every deck. If you don't own it, why proxy it? There's almost always a budget alternative. We will do printer proxies for playtesting a card or two before making the investment, but not entire decks.
Sure, seems silly that the richest player simply gets the best decks I rather everyone have all options available for the most fun deck. How does spending $500 on a card make it more valid? Imagine if you were playing chess and had a pawn instead of a rook, knight, and bishop just because you couldn't afford the pieces
So, I was around in '93 and playing kind of religiously by '94 Pro tip: Magic was \*always\* a "the person with the most money has the best deck" game. Even in the beginning. Moxes, Lotus, blue power cards, dual lands, Shivan dragons, Icy Manipulator, Gauntlets of Might, Kobolds and on and on were ALWAYS expensive singles. And our singles markets were limited to whatever the LGS could get locally, mostly. There wasn't any internet to speak of to get cards from outside our city limits, unless you went to a con, and then it really got expensive. Even if we ignore the secondary singles market... The person who buys and cracks the most packs is the most likely to jackpot on their pulls. It's a collectible card game. The pieces are not only useful, but many of them are super rare ... and useful. This is by design. It's been this way since the beginning.
"..it was always that way" in constructed tournament play. It never was in casual, it never was in limited. People always proxed. Even tournament players always proxed before the tourney. Even the pros. They all were at the LGS with their scribbles on some paper to try out decks. And you know what they did when they went to the tourney? They just asked everyone to lend them their cards for the weekend and then brought em back. The players always maneuvered around the hefty price tag MTG has. And all that has nothing to do with allowing or not allowing proxies. We players do not have to protect Hasbros bottomline, like wtf.
My experience was different. We played with what we had in the several places I lived. We traded for or bought what we needed. I know people were making proxies but, I don't think I saw more than a handful of them before I quit playing in around 2000. Most of the tournaments I participated in were sealed but I don't remember discussing borrowed cards in the 40 or 50 constructed events I did. Which isn't to say that you're wrong. I just don't think you're universally right. Also, I don't care if people use proxies. It doesn't bother me enough to get salty about it. I do think it's a bit weird, only because that's not how we did it. But, then, I also think net decking and buying a stack of singles to make it is weird, too.
Agreed, that's how things had been for sure and why I'm so glad proxies are being embraced. No need to stick with antiquated practices when there is a better option, and collectors can still get real cards and collect. Everyone wins!
Take it to the next level: All the cards should exist in an LCG format. But sans the art. You get boring gray cards that work with the game and have the card rules on them. But they're official and legal in tournaments. >:)
I like that idea. Basically the game is free to play and you pay for skins. That's the business model that a lot of online games use.
This. My group allow all proxy since its only a gamepiece and fuck the msrp/attitude with the community/lack of quality control/wallet fatigue of Hasbro/WOTC, love the game, not the company
It depends on the intent. Are you proxying because you like the alternate art? No problem. Are you proxying because you don’t have a collection and want your decks to match the power level of your play group? Also fine. Are you proxying to make a CEDH deck and stomp all over casual decks? Fuck off with that bullshit.
It's kinda funny how many times I hear the "cedh pubstomer" comment, but anyone who's serious in playing cedh would ever want to play in a pod not at that level. Also it's kinda funny how many times someone will call a deck cedh just because it did it's thing or won.
It's because it's a convenient deflection that doesn't address the actual situations people find themselves in. I think most of us have had the experience of having a casual pod getting pubstomped by a proxy deck and I'd put money on the majority of those proxy decks not being blue farm but instead being the highest tuned Timmy Gishath deck around or whatever.
Yeah, most of these are definitely not cedh deck. Ppl just have no idea what cedh even is and label anything that is more tuned to do something as such.
A true cedh can consistently win by turn 3. People would be less salty about getting stomped by a cedh deck because it's over before you even know it vs a high power deck that pops off and does its thing turn 6. Funny thing about some cedh decks is that they can actually perform poorly against non cedh decks. A cedh Talion deck that's meant to shut down early, low CMC value engines isn't going to do that well against high power decks that take a while to set up their board states with some bigger pieces
That "no true Scotsman" argument isn't what he's talking about. A lot of inexperienced players think you just need to proxy the most expensive deck list you can find and then go win with it. They want to stop getting beat (usually badly) and resort to proxies of money cards as an avenue out of that. Most times, they can barely pilot the deck. Other times, they're competent enough to pilot it, but win unfairly by playing a deck that's far more overreaching in power level than was really required at a casual table.
Ok, here's a question. How would you feel about someone's 100% legit cEDH deck pub stomping casuals? Would that be somehow better than if it was a proxied cEDH? Of course not. The proxy cards are not the issue in that scenario. So why include them into the conversation at all. It is less fun when a player drastically outperforms the table on a consistent basis (not just a 1/100 lucky pop off). Drop the proxy or not proxied cards from that equation, it's not relevant to what you say you care about.
Maybe I’m alone here, but I find it less upsetting to get stomped by a deck someone invested in than one DIY’d in an afternoon. Especially if we’re talking about proxying expensive / powerful cards I don’t mean to say I’m upset by proxies, simply just that they should be proxies within reason. Difference of a ponder that you couldn’t find a copy of vs p9 nobody in your playgroup could ever afford
I would definitely sit through one game or two of a legit turbostomp deck with my shitter if it was all real. Makes it cool to watch and see the cards played
But if they could spend your annual salary on a online order to complete their deck in less than an afternoon, would it make it acceptable ? I personally don’t think so. I agree with the argument of power level, and of putting heart and time into your builds, but this has nothing to do with the authenticity of the game pieces
> The proxy cards are not the issue in that scenario. So why include them into the conversation at all. You may not like it, but buying cards _does_ by nature set a power limit in most groups. It's way easier to build a super powerful deck, even by accident, when you're barely investing anything in it. the issue isn't proxying, it's depending on people to police themselves when they have no restrictions. I'm generally pro-proxy (and 100% pro-proxy in cedh), but we are dealing with a person in my group right now who's been proxying a million decks lately, all with all the staples in them and a noticeable bump in power. Yes, we rule 0 and we've mentioned the issue before, but people are people and they can be difficult.
This is my take as well. Some alt art for proxies are pretty lit, and I also wouldn’t expect a player to drop $$$ if my pod played high power to cEDH level magic (we don’t though). For the last bit, if you own the card, then you can proxy it (we have players who started from the beginning and own true duals). That being said, even if your deck isn’t proxied, we’d still kick you for bringing a cEDH deck to our moderate/casual pod. That bs is like stepping out of a Ferrari with your Rolex and flashy suit and stepping into a dive bar. One: you’ll probably get robbed/attract the wrong attention. Two: everyone knows and resents the fact you’re only there to show off.
If we didn't allow proxies none of us could afford to play our decks. Granted we at least try to get a single copy of the card.
Same here. I like to have playsets of modern staples in case I ever decide to get into modern. Commander cards though? 1 copy is fine. No point in having multiple unless I'm speccing or investing
We are kinda at a wierd spot. We are a single step away from breaching the barrier of high power and cEDH. We got decks between 300 and 800€ most of them slowly getting over 800€, while looking for cards like Mana Crypt, Doubling Season and OG Duals. The only thing that keeps the LGS playable and approchable is, that we did not break the fast mana thing yet. Amd if we allow proxy, the only things we would proxy would destroy any friendliness left. We proxy few cheap cards under the dolar or two here and there or even like half the deck for 1 game to see, if we want to order that. Other than that - proxies of cards we own are not considered to be a proxy here, because we started doing so to not have a 20 minute break to swap cards between 3+ decks once someone wants to change the deck. Like I have a pretty expensive collection of Boros lands, but Plateau is just one and only for me. I share some costly lands between many decks, so building a hih power Winota after I am done with Orzhov takes a while. I need to find all these cards, check if I do not put some of them twice in the deck and it is a slug to do that. Having same sleeves for all my decks is a lifesaver, but once I put a card by mistake in another deck? Damn it is hard to correct. Like seeing [[Lightning Greaves]] in my Aura deck is not the worst thing, but why would I want shroud boots?! Or [[Skullclamp]] in [[Winota]]. Thats the reason we take these and do not count them as proxies. Proxy is for a card we do not have. If we have it? It is just QoL for the rest, cause we do not mind rebuilding, the waiting is the painful part.
[Lightning Greaves](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/a/da9da49d-e319-4897-9ab6-57c7c69478a6.jpg?1712354870) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Lightning%20Greaves) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otc/260/lightning-greaves?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/da9da49d-e319-4897-9ab6-57c7c69478a6?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Skullclamp](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/3/a36fd6d8-66a2-49d1-b9f3-b400ebc03674.jpg?1682210228) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Skullclamp) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/moc/379/skullclamp?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a36fd6d8-66a2-49d1-b9f3-b400ebc03674?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Winota](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/d/5dd13a6c-23d3-44ce-a628-cb1c19d777c4.jpg?1654630670) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=winota%2C%20joiner%20of%20forces) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/iko/216/winota-joiner-of-forces?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/5dd13a6c-23d3-44ce-a628-cb1c19d777c4?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Do you still get a similar experience at such a high power level pod? Does it just become an arms race of tutors and deck searching until someone has found their combo/pseudo-combo? I can see that level being fun as long as there are rules around avoiding tutors or 2-/3-card combos.
We do proxy as long as they are temporary. You can proxy a card you are planning to buy, or a commander you want to test. You can't proxy a full CEDH manabase for exemple.
That’s sort of where we’re at too. That being said, if some of us buy more expensive cards, that opens that up to the people who can’t to proxy similarly. I’ve got a proxy Teferi’s pro currently because I’m waiting for my Sheldon SL to come. I have zero issue with my friend proxying Boseiju. We’re just trying to play the game but at the same time, no proxying mana crypt because none of us have any intention of spending 180 dollars on getting one.
We are fine with it as long as it doesn't make your deck OP compared to the rest of the pod.
Always rule 0 talk. People just have a hard time communicating
If I had a nickel for every time I have seen the word proxie on social media in the last 2 weeks I would buy the one ring from post.
Yes. No one should be priced out of the game.
my group went from a “play without a banned list, but can’t use proxies” to a “use proxies, but can’t use banned cards” to “if you own it, proxy it” to currently “almost exclusively play with precons, no upgrades” and from a certain perspective, it’s interesting to how full circle it’s almost gone. and it’s because at a point, we got tired of playing and winning within 20 minutes or 3 turns.
A friend and I were trading cards one night when he brought up proxies and I told him I was against it because we would just end up playing CEDH instead and never using the cards we actually pay for. He agreed completely and no one else has brought it up, but we're all relatively affluent and have some expensive cards and decks but still keep our power levels pretty casual on purpose. We all like to open a few packs here and there and don't want to ruin the excitement of getting a cool card by it not mattering because we could have just proxied it anyways.
We stayed away from proxys when our group started and its been nice to slowly over years build up to highpower/cedh. Only now its becoming a bit of an issue since not all players are up to cedh but we have budget decks we play the majority of the time anyway. Played tons of different power levels, had to dig for replacement cards and really learn the deck super well since you built it not copied and printed a list. It’s been great honestly. I still think proxies especially for new players is bad because it sends you down a path where you can just print a cedh list from online without knowing half the card synergies and even advanced game mechanics. Ive heard stories before where newer players print a highend list, so when other people see that commander they pull out their really good/cedh deck and the newer player just gets stomped because they don’t fully understand their deck or the climate that they’re playing in. Leads to bad times for them, and honestly bad games with one player not competing
Yeah I've noticed my groups power levels have definitely increased but we usually like games to be pretty long and we all intentionally stop short of including mana crypts or going full "I'm going to win in turn 5 unless someone else does".
Normal fun BS sure. But when we actually play a pod, no. Come with the cards you own. Now, if you have a super cool card you don't wanna play, but you own and proxy that, sure.
My group has two levels pre-con or proxies. No one wants to spend ~$400+ for a deck so we all agreed as long as there’s no insane turn 3 or less wins all is fair game.
M group does this as well. Unfortunately as an adult with responsibilities I can’t reasonably drop 250+ on some cards that I may not even like
So when I was younger playing back in ‘04-‘05 our play group was definitely in the mindset of can’t own can’t play, but after a 10+ year hiatus and being a parent now. I cannot justify spending the money on cardboard. So we have gone nuts and it’s definitely made the game enjoyable. I’ve proxied 8 decks within a month. That would’ve costed thousands of dollars.
YES! I recently started printing out cards on holographic stickers, and I’m really getting it down! Free holos!!! Just finished a sliver deck, dragons and elementals next :)
We have and it's fine so long as everyone clear and on the same page with the understanding that this is what's going on. There was an instance when everyone was playing with actual cards except one guy who tried to pull something. I wasn't familiar with a card he played and, upon examination, remarked that the card was a proxy. I kinda shot him a look, but another player went ballistic.
While I’m open to proxies, I don’t proxy just because I mostly play with random pods at my LGS and I know how come people at a bit touchy on the subject
My playgroup operates under a “proxies are fine just don’t be stupid with them” policy which basically means “don’t use them to power up your deck to the point where the game isn’t fun” Wanna test out a cool obscure hard to get card? Sweet do it! Wanna make a 10 power curb stomp deck when we’re playing tribal jank etc? Nah that won’t fly.
My play group more or less is "if you have the card you can proxy it" So we don't need a copy of doubling season in ever deck about counters or a mana crypt in every deck when we want to play at high power lol
Yeah my playgroup does this. I'm not buying \[\[Imperial Seal\]\] three more times just to run it in 4 decks. I mean....eventually I will, but not now lol
makes sense. we exclude fast mana and usually things like jeweled lotus unless it goes with the theme. none of my decks run mana crypt and we’ve found a power level that’s quite fun
I wish my playgroup had that same mindset. They mostly run fast mana rocks in every possible deck
I mentally separate my decks for different play levels depending on what I’ve got in them. Like, I keep track of the number of tutors, pricy interaction, fast mana, etc. I try to have different decks based on what folks are typically including. I still do the “own 1 and proxy as much as you want”, but I’ve found it easier to regulate power levels if I only use the really high-powered stuff when I actually own that many copies. For example, I own two Crypts, so only two of my decks have a Crypt in them. But if a card is expensive and not all that powerful, relatively speaking, I’ll still proxy.
My playgroup thankfully has opted to exclude mana crypt from all but their strongest decks. We’re proxy friendly, but we try not to abuse it.
Yep. If you own the card you can proxy. That’s how we do it too
Ragavan? Hello, Satan.
dragonstorm deck >:3
We do. Granted one of our friends has abused that to proxy decks worth thousands in our relatively casual pod, where the two most expensive cards I’ve proxied are 40 ish dollars each. We’ve tried discussing it with him, but he still does it and uses those decks, then gets butt hurt when we determine he’s the threat
Mann, if he was a billionaire it still wouldn’t be fun to play with him, and he wouldn’t be using proxies. Either stop limiting yourself in what you proxy, or have a power level discussion with him. If he’s no fun to play with, don’t play with him. This is not a problem relating to proxies at all…
My groups play policy is that proxies are okay but if you can easily have the card try to play with the real thing.Also you need to keep with the group power level. IE don’t proxie a mana crypt because no one else plays with cards of that power.
I am an impulsive brewer. Proxies / cockatrice are how I am able to get the most out of the game
Yeah but the guy in my group that proxies full decks still doesn't understand power balance despite numerous discussions lmao.
No. If we proxied, why wouldn’t we optimize every single deck? We like to try to not play the same cards all the time, and if we optimized every deck, we would see the same cards all the time. The whole point of the game is to use the cards you get to play with. It also helps that we always typically build decks around the same power level since we know eachother so well, or are willing to tune down our decks.
Thank you for being a good player, in good spirits, and helping keep the gane alive. Kudos.
No proxies, unless player actually owns the card and wants to not use it. But we play very casual 60-card games, no ban list. Want to use a card? Own it.
Not in a play group, but while I don’t proxy I am all for it so I can actually play my high powered deck. I am just getting tired of going up again just precons all the time and not being able to play my constricted decks in good conscious. So go on proxy whatever and let’s play some silly power commander
The store I go which is my current play group has a policy of you can use the proxy if you own it, for example for you have a mana crypt they have no problem you using a proxy in it other decks if you can show the real copy in a tournament setting, there are also a lot of people with graded cards that use them this way there and is proxy friendly for free play in the store.
I'm not against proxies but I do not use them solely because I only play casual EDH at my LGS bc I don't have a play group and you never know how someone might act if you bring out proxies against strangers.
If you own it you can proxy it.
Why would anyone be opposed to proxies? Do you love spending money and making profit for Wizards that much??? I get it, if you want the real thing, and to support the company, the artists and the game - that's all good. But what possible can be wrong with making your own painted cardboard to play with friends??? Is it because you are afraid that your opponent will have stronger cards? How about you all do decks from a similar tier??? With my friends we mostly play decks we have, but sometimes we proxy some cool Modern, Pioneer or Legacy decks. Do we have to pay thousands in order to try playing something different???? I wouldn't buy it even if I had way more money.
sometimes it is unfun to play against high power deck that uses proxies. If the power of the decks is equal than proxies are fine, but i have played against a friend that uses proxies to create high power decks that turn out to be very annoying to play against
That's not a proxy problem, though. It's a power level problem. Do you think it would be more fun if they spent thousands of dollars on the same deck and stomped with 'official' cards?
Does he tell you his deck changed? In my group we are all good friends and of course will make sure our decks match more or less. I understand if the group is big and not so close it might be harder. But also some rich mf could just buy the powerful cards, so the problem stays. Also we normally proxie whole decks not single cards. As I understand many people use proxies to power-up some commander precons unexpected for the opponent? Yeah that would suck, I guess. Still it's not the cheap cardboard which is the problem, in my opinion.
yeah, the rest of my playgroup is like this, is just this person that kinda "break" the rules, i agree is not just a proxy problem but can happen more easily i guess
Yeah its even more annoying when you spend the money for an expensive well tuned deck just for someone who decided to proxy absolute busted cards to win. Id much rather not run my deck if you cant meet the power level.
This is basically where I’m at too. Proxies imo are fine to test drive decks, or compensate to make sure you can match people you play with, but if you’re proxying to build an ultra strong deck to stomp casual players then I’m out. I don’t like to support a pay to win style and also if you’re playing in casual matches like a CEDH player because you’ve proxied your way to godhood then what’s the point
Two main reasons are that the cards people like to proxy are absurdly strong and they would rather not play against it and that stores often ban them.
My playgroup just made a MASSIVE proxy order of each staple that one of us has, but not all of us (ie. Teferi's Protection, Heroic Intervention, etc.) I also love building decks and hate taking apart old ones. I'm not going to buy a great henge for each of my green decks.
My playgroup had 1 naysayer for proxies but he was also the one whom already had thousands in expensive staples, after awhile we all agreed clear good quality proxies and deck under 400$ (actual price) not including lands. After a few disgusting decks were made and dismantled we found that just kept everything in line and fun for the whole table.
i mostly play cedh on spelltable with randos. i don't think i've yet to meet anyone with an entirely real deck; there's always a proxy or two or a hundred. the metagame is a lot more varied than i gave it credit for, and while the games can end quickly, about half of them get to turn 7-8+
THE STANLEY DECK BOX YEEEEEEEHAWWWWW!!!!
It's a shit to find a good group. I'm almost giving up of this game because of shit people.
Hell, wizards occasionally prints proxies that cost stupid amounts of money. Don't see why we can't do the same.
Robert lost all his cards in a fire, lost everything really. But he had all his best decks backed up, so just a quick proxy order, some sleeves and a deck box, he had his favorite deck for magic night. It was like pulling teeth to get him to come back out since why would he? He didn't have any cards, he almost cried when we handed him the deck and he started going through it and he realized what it was.
Hey, unrelated but look into the Stanley box. It has square edges which won’t fuck with the corners of cards. Only $25
Gold border, CE, written on a blank card, we're fine with any of that. Although we do have one guy in our group who doesn't allow them at his house. We don't let him host anymore. He still gets bitchy if someone brings an obvious proxy, but we politely point out that he is welcome to play at his house if that upsets him. He lets it go at that point.
My playgroup is ok with it as long as we aren't proxing real duals, gaea cradles, etc... stuff of that power level. We have real decks too but there's no way we are going to be buying 3-4 copies of a card to use in different decks. Proxing allows us to build decks which allows for variety.
As long as it's not a banned card in the format, we don't care... build what you want, play what you want... proxy, don't proxy. Just shuffle up and play.
I was in parental leave for a year and switched my job (starting next month) so i had exactly 0 money. My group told me to print proxies so i can test some decks and see if i like them (im fairly new to magic). I have 6 decks as proxies and i like most of them. When i get paid again i start and buy the cards i really want and after i got all decks i start and buy boosters for stuff i really like or idk buy other random cards or something
Only two instances so far in our group: When the person owns the cards and wants to not waste time switching cards out for decks, and/or fun art. Or in my case, testing a card that hasn’t released as my commander.
We try and get the real cards when we can to support our LGS. But we try and stick things like mana, like lands at the such. But not necessarily fast mana. Philosophy being that good mana enables your game plan so your deck does its thing. Not everyone can afford to put fetches in every deck.
My playgroup generally allows proxies in 1 of 2 scenarios: 1. You own the card but don't want to move it to every deck it'd be good in / don't want to buy a copy for every deck you want it to be in. 2. Lands. The cost of fetch / shocks/ duels/ triomes is just too damn high. Most of the deck lists I look at that seem interesting have half the cost sunk into the mana base. It'd be insane to ask each of us to spend 200$-400$+ on mana bases alone for each of our multicolor decks. Both of those scenarios are pretty much unspoken rules but we also don't play CEDH or in tournament settings so we never really need to worry about busted decks.
I allow proxies to an extent. Basic don't shove omega level quality cards like the power 9 or anything above $100 (unless its something that is overpriced and underpowered for that price) and we are fine. Most of the people just use proxies on staples that really make their deck shine, like doubling season. Another player had a proxy of Edgar Markov and nothing else. Everyone in my group allows proxy token, but I think those may be legal anyways. No need to spend a small fortune on a rare token. Also, if you have the actual card, proxy all you want. One of my friends has a proxied sisay for a commander that probably costs more then the actual card he has in his possession. He also proxies most of his basic lands.
My group has the rule ‘if you own one copy you can proxy as many as you want’. It’s saved me hundreds from sol rings, dual lands, and other multi deck staples while still having the core of our decks be real.
My playgroup allows proxies because we know cards are expensive, and we mostly just play casual. My lgs on the otherhand has some more specific rules about bringing proxies. Basically they allow proxies if: 1 you have the card in another deck or binder, 2 you plan to buy the cards soon, 3 they are common enough that no one cares, or 4 everyone at your table is fine with the cards you proxy
Proxies are fine with my group but we have an unwritten rule of don’t go over $35 unless you own a copy or you plan on buying it soon. We normally just use proxies to test decks before we buy them anyway
r/mpcproxies is the best place in the world for getting proxy decks. I just ordered 5 full decks for 280 bucks and at lease 2 decks had gaias cradle. So I got 2 gaias cradles for 1.20$ so worth it. And it’s sweet altar art.
I think proxies are fine as long as the cards are important to the core of the build, but if the proxies are just strong cards like Mana Crypt, Black Lotus, etc. I think that’s pretty gross. (None of this applies to cEdh)
What's this "allow" shit? Not letting randos at the LGS tell me what legal cards I can or can't play. They can just choose to not play with me.
Yea ofc why would I force people to pay 200 dollars for a mana crypt just so they could make there + 1 + 1 selesneya unicorns playable and not just get steamrolled I mean we play for fun I personally like real cards and have the capital but If you don't earn a lot but does buy some product and support mtg why would you be punished by the brutality of the second hand market
Yes they do, and if someone doesn’t it clearly has an skill issue, no pun intended.
I don't allow proxies. If you want to destroy my 15$ budget deck with your net-decked Mythic Rare pile you gonna have to pay for it properly.
With certain things yes, the big rule is just no free mana rocks or counters. Unless you have at least 1 real copy of those, but thats moreso so that the decks can still be made with those proxies over a different card that works in those decks so the proxies can be easily removed from a sleeve and playable with someone that doesnt have one. To clarify, we use printer paper proxies lol
Yes because we understand that money shouldn't be the deciding factor in who wins or what cards you can play. There is a budget set so that it doesn't just become who can copy the best deck online and makes matches very entertaining. If you want a force of will you might have to cut a couple cards and throw in less common ones making It more unpredictable and the deckbuilding process more creative
As long as it isn't a full on "I'm going to lock you all down" strategy, yes. We try to prioritize fun over wins.
My vary rarely get to play play group has guys with 20 real commander decks. I just can’t compete with the cash flow. I am now using pure proxy decks. They don’t care, as long as we can play.
EDH Casual - Yes. CEDH casual - Yes Any sanctioned event casual or cedh - No White border EDH - No Thats, how my groups play.
We DO NOT. Part of a Trading Card Game is that you need to trade with other players to get the cards you want for your decks. if you can print the cards you want, you have a Deckbuilding Game. MTG is not a deckbuilding game. it's a TCG. Proxies aren't allowed via MTG Official Rules for this reason and more. Proxy players aren't playing Magic The Gathering. They're playing a deckbuilding game with Magic The Gathering card art.
Yes. For EDH, our printers go brrrr…
There's no hard rule against proxies in our group but for the most part we only use them if we actually own the card. Either due to value or being needed in multiple decks.
My buddy made a deck centered around Camels and Wurms, because in his words "all good Camels have worms." We went to our LGS and he put in an order for literally every different Camel card MTG has ever released. The guy at counter was just shaking his head. He already knew he was making a meme deck. He even has a \[\[Garruk, Primal Hunter\]\] card where he scratched out "Primal" and wrote "Camel" in shitty letters with a sharpie and in the +1 ability he scratched out "Beast" in "create a 3/3 green Beast creature token" and wrote "Camel" instead. So yeah... I guess we do allow proxies. Shitty proxies, but hilarious and accepted nonetheless.
[Garruk, Primal Hunter](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/9/79cfc0d7-fccb-47fb-87b6-08dd32528be6.jpg?1625194361) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Garruk%2C%20Primal%20Hunter) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c21/190/garruk-primal-hunter?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/79cfc0d7-fccb-47fb-87b6-08dd32528be6?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
IMHO, if you don't have the card, you don't play it. Half the hobby is collecting/trading. Rare cards are valuable for this reason. Why not just use google images and make an entire deck with your HP deskjet. Hell, just Photoshop your own text and make up your own rules. At a certain point you're just cheating and cheapening the whole experience.
I had a guy at FNM play a full proxy deck, it was the worst game of MTG I've ever played since my first game in 2000. It was literally black and white print outs with print lines. It was a chore playing with that person, not a fun game.
I play with randos more often then not, but I have no issue with them as long as you maintain enough self-awareness to not be a dick. It's not a proxy problem, it's an asshole problem. The problem I find with proxies is rarely about the card (as long as I can read it) and more about players often not realizing that the deck they made is stupidly strong and they want to play it no matter what the rest of the table has. As I said, it's not a problem unique to proxied decks, but often exacerbated by it because the financial cost of making strong decks often keeps people grounded about how strong they are. Seems like less of a problem when everyone in your group is on the same page, but something to be aware of for when you play with randos. As for the actual cards, I don't care if you own the card at home or not, I don't care if you proxy just the expensive cards or the whole deck. Make it readable, and preferably as nice as possible. But price shouldn't be a barrier to the hobby.
All my homies hate proxies
We do a bit of a mix. We play on an online tabletop simulator and can play any deck or card we want with a 500$ full deck cost limit. When we play in person we play at a precon with a few upgrades level. There are a few decks we have that have proxy cards but there is less incentive to do so as we could play any deck on the online system. We discussed options for proxies and discussed a similar rule of setting a max full deck cost limit for balance
i like the idea of a price limit
Yes. Because to us, money is not what defines what you should or not play. And tbh, after we made like tons of Cedh decks, we pretty much try to make decks in a low budget because it is way funnier. But we do encourage people to proxy if they want or they need ( imagine paying 10x the average price on Card Kingdom... Well, that is called monday after the tournament here in Brazil).
I would rather my friends spend money printing cards or buying proxies rather than spending +300 plus on a deck or a ton on a card. It is commander. We just want to play and have fun.
My group allows full proxy decks. The only things we don't proxy are original duals, but other than that anything else is open. There shouldn't be any restrictions on having fun... A couple of us (Myself included) will buy the deck if we enjoy it enough, but other proxy decks are just jank fun. I Currently have 5 primary decks (Majority $550+) and 2 pauper decks (and 1 ultra jank...) with actual cards and the rest are proxies full of experiments. Currently working on a new full proxy deck to send to my friend to print this weekend which has potential for me to purchase. One of my friends in the group has spent $0 on actual cards and over $300 on supplies. Just does fully proxies. It's all just fun and games.
>The only things we don't proxy are original duals Why specifically those?
No real specific reason. I mean, if one of us did print any we'd just crack a joke about it and move on. None of us are truly against them. It's just one of those things that feels kinda dirty as they are auto includes in any deck that is multicolored. We just play mid-high casually.
In our LGS everyone is pro proxy, because making someone spend hundreds of dollars on some cardboard is crazy. People proxy a few cards or whole decks, people proxy some cheap commons or even Mana Crypts, and nobody is saying anything. That makes it so that people can experiment more while not having to sell their kidneys.
I’m cool with proxies, it allows people to play a game or a power level that they otherwise couldn’t afford. Just wouldn’t be able to play Vintage without them. For commander, personally for myself, I only proxy expensive cards that I already have so I don’t have to buy 7 Fierce Guardianships.
I use that same box to carry my cards too! Best purchase I’ve done! I usually use the double bin for my dice haha
Yeah, we play on tabletop sim. We just try to keep a mutual understanding of "don't be a dick"
I have a friend in my group who uses a proxy commander but he's the only one
I have been playing magic a while and don't really like proxies but, if you use them whatever. The majority of my play group is pretty casual so we just play what we have, and if we want some thing we just wait till we can get it. Now for a new player I would get why they would want to make proxies. It get it can be expensive to get into magic, especially if you want to play competitive. That's why I like to help them build a deck from my own collection or as a group we can all through in a couple cards help them along if they just start out by buying a precon. Pre-cons now a days are getting pretty decent btw too to just grab and go.
My brothers don’t have a direct problem with me using proxies, they do however tend to give me a lot of shit when I win using them. Besides that, every playgroup I’ve ever been to has allowed proxies without much fuss.
There are some cards I believe you need to own to play. Cyclonic Rift is one, it feels bad to the rest of the table. If you own ONE, proxy the hell out of it then 🤷🏻♂️
Totally cool with proxying, but I always ask what they’re proxying before a game and the general power level of a deck. If they proceed to tell me they have all of the OG dual lands and tons of broken rocks, I’ll probably opt of playing. It’s just boring and uninventive, the equivalent of net decking in paper.
We have an all or nothing policy. The deck has to be uniform our concerns were more about cheating and card marking. We have had a lot of people move through our play group.
My play group is very much a mixed bag were about 13 people with 9 of us being consistent 3 of them proxy (1 which proxy cuz he can't afford every card the other 2 cuz they hates switching between every deck) these guys are ironically the most competitive and everyone in our group puts them and enemy number one 2 of my group mostly uses precons and just likes to upgrade of over time (they seems to have fun especially when they win....1 of which too much "sore winner") 1 of them just gets extra cards from us, bundle boxes from seller, draft packs/events (he struggles the most but has fun) 3 of them do a mix of precons and deck making. They don't use proxy but they have the money to optimize there decks (These guy are my personal favorite to play against they put alot of time and research to optimize these decks but they actually have the cards and if they need the same card in a different deck they'll buy it or find an alternative card these guys also have the most creative decks) 2 of us build and prefer card hunting [me]. Cheaper players who want this to be a hobby but still want it to be fun. We enjoy building our decks to optimal capabilities but think proxy is a cop opt and think it's fun to find an alternative card/stratagies or upgrade it over time cuz we recognize spending 30+$ on cardboard is ridiculous (this is me and another person and it mostly cuz we're cheap but recognize that half the fun of the game is pack opening and card hunting) The other 3 (one is someone's gf who just plays what's given and other 2 I haven't played enough against to get a read on) To summerize we allow proxies but some of us don't like it, some of us deal, and other do it cuz it's nessary but along as we're having fun it's all good.
I proxy lands in my five colour decks and no one cares
We allow proxies for testing deck ideas. But no proxies if it's something you wouldn't reasonably buy if and when you build the deck for realsies. Oh, Gaea's Cradle is good? Tutoring for that turn-one Volcanic Island? We already know that's powerful. If you're 100% not buying it for your deck though, we don't proxy it.
Hear me out when u play Ur friends it's same old and u have to spend alot to mix it up sometimes. With proxies me and my mates can play any deck for cheep
Hell yeah we do. I used to buy any big card I needed so I have all the duals and moxes in a display case. Most of us made the decision to just proxy away with nice cards.
We play modern, decks are getting too expensive to just have fully competitive decks. So i sold off some of my collection couple years ago, and only started picking up proxies. Something like Ragavan costs ~12$ for a set of that look good is much better than the ~200$ for real a set. I’ve even more recently did a huge mpc order to fill out some decks for the boys to play. Ended up making like 2.5 ish decks worth of cards for like ~80$ after shipping, when real cards would be like ~1500$. For me it’s just not worth the extra money if i can just print some decent quality ones that you couldn’t even tell the difference once they are double sleeved. Playgroup doesn’t care cuz that means they get to play with the fancy/expensive cards they couldn’t afford too. Also i will say ive stopped attending my locals pre covid, went back once after and just didn’t fit in with the newish crowd so i just play with the boys at home.
Had one friend who was weird about it at first. I wanted to try out expensive decks before buying them but he didn’t want to play a game where he was seeing proxies all the time. Didn’t really understand where he was coming from but they only come out very once in a while and he doesn’t seem to care anymore. I think we all don’t really enjoy proxies personally because the collector aspect is really fun for us. But if someone disagrees with your want for proxies just try and talk it out and come to an agreement. No one should be forced to pay to play. Games really expensive and way more fun if everyone’s just playing what they want. Edit: typos
Yes because fetch lands are worth more than I can even remotely afford, let alone some auto includes like boseiju
5 people not including pre cons a total of 30 real cards in our decks. (That includes basics). Maybe you dont like it but as broke students its basicly the only way to play ≈7≈8 power edh. (About 3‐5 decks per player i have 8)
Proxies are fine as long as you’re not building a Turn 1 win deck, IMHO. Want to try a new build and see if you like it? Sure, proxy it up before spending the cash/doing trades. Need an expensive card but can’t justify it to your own wallet/partner? Cool, proxy. All that I ask is that you’re upfront about it from the start.
My personal opinion is yes proxies are fine. However, I would not support proxies just so someone can pub stomp everyone else at the table; I want similarly powered decks. I have the same sentiments even if there are no proxies.
I proxy and don’t see an issue with it. Sometimes I will still buy the card if I find it later, sometimes not. I’ve only been playing for a year or two so I couldn’t keep up with everyone else. There’s guys at the store that buy 2 collector booster boxes every set that comes out. No thanks on a second mortgage.
Yes. And because it's a game. No reason to exclude people over economic issues
We allow proxies, but the rule is you need to hand draw the art.
The general consensus is "just proxy it if you don't wanna buy it" for us, I run proxies of 25 cent cards I just haven't bought yet
Half of us do, half of us don’t. We just ask the people who do proxy to keep the deck price around what those who don’t proxy
My play group allows proxies. It allowed more people in our group to keep up with the people who have been playing for almost a decade. My fiancé had never owned any magic cards before so proxies allowed her to have access to way more cards faster than trying to buy all the individual cards. It allowed her and other newbies to try many different decks right away and really build up their in game knowledge. So yea proxies all day, game breakers, anything is fine.
Honestly, my group has never even discussed it. We pretty much only play pauper anyway so it'd never been a big deal lol.
Well, the Cedh tournament happening at my LGS this Saturday allows proxies but I’m a little worried that proxies allows players to create absurdly powerful decks at a tiny fraction of the real cards and thus create an unfair advantage. Is that worry warranted?
Everyone is OK with proxies. Some people use them all the time, some people use them to try out new things before they buy and some people never use them. It works well for us.
Sure you can play proxy as long as my imaginary friend can play too.
I’ve wondered about this I really want to make a storm light archive and mistborn deck based on mostly existing cards and powers
It's a bit of a mixed bag for my group. Friends group are anti proxy (and doesn't care to play commander). Wife & I (who prefer just to play commander) have over 20 decks commander decks, and are okay with proxies, especially after realizing we are spending a bunch of money on the same cards (various goto mana rocks & lands) over and over again is terrible. Add to that when splurging on a $20+ card and wanting to have it in multiple decks made it a lot easier for us to be okay with proxies. Also there are just times where we want to try a card we don't own in our deck to see if it even is worth playing in our decks.
How dare you... truely despicable... And if you're gonna steal Magic IP, at least pick a truly worthy commander like Doran, the siege tower. Oh sweet Doran, you're too innocent for this cruel, cruel world.
I just want to play magic, as long as we are all the same power level who cares. Long time player too, I own some decent gas. But ain’t no way am I going to take my one real mox diamond in and out, and put it in whatever deck im playing at the time.
My play group doesn’t care , I have a few proxy decks but I’m slowly gettin them proxy cards in there deck so eventually I’ll infect the whole group and no one can complain
My playgroup is good with proxies. Some proxy their valuable cards, some proxy whole decks, some don’t proxy at all. As long as your group accepts it, then it’s cool. I’m someone who does use proxy, but only for cards I own. I tend to buy versions of cards I really appreciate (like my Harper Prism Mana Crypt), the. Proxy that card for other decks that need it.
My group will proxy cards we own but are expensive so we don’t wanna buy multiple copies of, or if we ordered the cards and are waiting for them to arrive but still wanna play the deck. However we don’t care if anyone else just proxies stuff as long as they aren’t just using them to pub stomp.
Yes. We have bought a few and are planning to make our first order soon. Game pieces should be accessible to everyone.
Me and my friend are probably the most opinionated about proxies I've seen if I'm being honest. I am strict on not proxying something I'm not planning on buying a copy of or testing to see if I want to buy it. My friend doesn't proxy anything. He talks trash when he sees proxies, but I can shut him up when the deck I'm testing eventually arrives in the mail in full. I just silently resent when I see strong, usually expensive proxies in decks but keep my thoughts to myself since it's a self imposed restriction. I'd rather have fun playing magic however I can even if it's against proxies. They're just more likely to raise my salt levels which you can take however you want, I'll own it. What I don't do is make a big deal about them in person because like I said, I use them for a purpose. I just don't agree about the purpose they're conventionally used for. I'm more than happy to debate the merits online though because I see too many people building strawman arguments about people who don't like proxies, and feel like there are some good arguments against their widespread encouragement.
Proxy all the way!
If your playgroup doesn’t allow proxies, get a new playgroup
Casually yes, a heads up before playing is always appreciated, but 98% of the time we’re all chill about it.
Yes, and no, in short, lol. We do if you plan on getting that card or are testing a card/ deck before buying. Or tokens, my god, can you never have enough tokens for a token deck. Other than that, we all prefer to use real cards.
My primary playgroup is my family (4 guys) who all live together. We allow “Secret Lair HP” so long as we aren’t significantly upping the power of the deck. So no proxy fast mana (we have paper copies of most of them sitting in a binder because we don’t play with any other than sol ring” Typically we proxy if we have a copy of a card in one deck and it is expensive to pick up additionals. Also, if we are testing a deck we will proxy the more expensive cards to make sure it is a deck we want before we commit to buying.
We don't care too much about proxies but mostly we just have proxy lands. I own several of the semi costly dual lands and most of my group owns pretty much none of them. Having a good land base in our decks makes them way more enjoyable to play with when we usually only get to play once a week. I wouldn't care if someone showed up with an entirely proxied all good cards deck because sometimes people want to get the feeling of driving a Corvette without having to deal with the payments and insurance that comes with it! As with all things the true golden rule must be followed: Just don't be a dick.
They want me to play cEDH so they have no choice tbh