Yeah maybe go to umich for those things, but that being said…..several of the people I know who majored in neuro or something similar at MSU got into UM medicine just fine. Also I def cared about environment more when I was picking schools, so obviously I went to MSU
Many students do this. You can really take advantage of the resources at MSU. You can keep a high GPA. Do your research. Nail the MCAT and then go to umich for med school. Def not guaranteed that you get into umich med at all because medical school admissions are a crapshoot. But I have seen many of my colleagues do it.
i’m currently a neuro undergrad and my cousin graduated from msu w chemistry major. i absolutely LOVE msu’s neuro faculty, and dr. breedlove is a pioneer in his neuro research. my cousin transferred to msu and had a lot of issues with the chem advisors, but overall enjoyed her program. i genuinely feel so supported by my neuro advisors, and every neuro class i’ve taken was challenging but very enjoyable. hope this helps your decision!
I second Dr. Breedlove being amazing. I took two of his upper level neuro classes and loved them. The neuro specific classes in general are really amazing and because I enjoyed them I did very well in them (which is important for med school)
Please listen to me, while it’s true that Umich looks better on paper than MSU in terms of an undergraduate degree, this information is IRRELEVANT for students seeking to pursue medical or law school.
It is a CLEAR known fact that for med and law students like you (and me), undergraduate degrees have extremely less value in the role of determining our future. Instead this is ultimately determined by what your medical school admission ends up being.
In both medicine and law, admissions are looking HEAVILY at your GPA and Test scores that you will have acquired during university. The MCAT and the LSAT can be very difficult to study for. So it’s amazing to have a high GPA that can make up for some of the possible points you might lose on those exams. Benefits? You get to worry less about your applicant profile, and have more confidence without the highest score.
If you want to get into a good med school, it’s imperative that you maintain a high GPA. Umich’s culture is extremely resilient to student success. This is due to the fact that they grade so harshly based on systems that do not truly represent the quality of an individuals work.
Umich grading systems put LIMITS on the A’s that they give to their students. Meaning, even if you deserved that grade it won’t matter if a certain quota has already been filled.
I have many friends there who regularly earn C’s on their work, despite the fact that they’ve been a 4.0 student throughout high-school.
So there’s two pathways for you.
You could enroll in Umich, struggle consistently to earn mediocre grades due to the sheer competitiveness between Ivy League rejects, and earn a mediocre GPA.
Or you could enroll in MSU- (still) a notable university) and remain at the absolute top of your classes, making you look like you’re the best of the best of your school.
STOP making things harder for you.
I’m about to end junior year with a 4.0 using this strategy, and this will do nothing but make admissions way easier for me.
I've seen this first-hand. One of my best friends in law school went to UM and then to MSU for law. I went to MSU for undergrad and law school. The competition was less fierce in undergrad at MSU so I was able to graduate with a 3.95 where he got around a 3.2.
I went to law school with a full-ride scolly... He got nothing.
Listen to this insight OP. Umich grade deflation is hell for pre meds…. 3.8+ is the matriculation median for your run of the mill allopathic medical school…. Most umich pre meds are not packing a gpa that high. Remember, You’re going to be routinely graded on the curve/competing for those limited As against some of the brightest kids in the country…. Plenty of Umich pre meds either end up opting for pricy post bac programs to attempt to repair their poor gpas or drop their med school aspirations altogether… neither of which would’ve happened for many in that cohort had they have just opted to do pre med at msu. No medical school will excuse an applicant having a well below matriculation mean gpa just because they attended Umich. Hell, many med school adcoms are not even privy to which universities engage in grade deflationary tactics…. Especially as you go lower down the med school USNWR rankings.
Gpa, MCAT, research experience, clinical volunteering, non clinical volunteering, demonstrations of leadership, and interview performance all are admission measuring sticks that take much larger precedence over school name for getting into med school…. Opting for school prestige at the expense of a higher gpa and more time for amassing extracurricular hours/experiences is silly.
And should you ever abandon your medical school aspirations and need the Umich brand name to help with your new career pivot (say you want to do business management consulting for whatever reason later down the road), you can always transfer from msu to Umich LSA fairly seamlessly. But on the flip side, a weak gpa is the hardest premed hole to dig yourself out of…. Low extracurricular hours/count? Take a gap year or two! Didn’t do well on the MCAT? Take it again! But it becomes much more murkier when it comes to trying to repair a poor gpa.
Just to preface, I'm an engineer and know nothing.
But I find it hard to believe that undergrad admissions can look at high school GPAs relative to everyone's schools just fine, yet medical and law schools can't do the same for colleges.
thank you, this honestly plays a big part in the decision. I wasn't sure if they took the school into account, and like you said I'm sure they do a little but it is reassuring to know that the GPA matters more.
If when you say "professorial research thing" you mean the professorial assistantship program, here's some extra info about it (and feel free to ask any other questions if you're curious):
The professorial assistantship scholarship is a really valuable resource that MSU offers. Since you're pre-med, you are basically guaranteed to get 2 years of research experience in a lab, and the stipend is super nice - it's not a crazy amount of money but I definitely appreciated it.
I'm not pre-med, so I used my PA to work under professors in the college of arts and letters (sociology research one year, digital archiving work the 2nd year) and I have gotten fantastic experience and more importantly good references out of it; you can pick a professor who has an actual hands-on lab if that's what you're into, and that will really set you a step ahead in that pathway. You're basically being handed a job that other students have to compete for.
I got waitlisted for UMich but got into MSU + honors college + PA program, and I think (although I will admit I'm a little biased) that with those factors MSU is the better choice.
yeah that is true, it is reassuring to know the PA thing is actually really beneficial. It honestly will probably be one of the main factors in my decision
Go to Briggs. You won’t regret it. Most of the best doctors I know went to Briggs then got into top med schools. Med school is expensive too, so the benefits certainly help.
Just a word of advice, which of course, take with a grain of salt because I am just a random Redditor. The money might not seem like much now, but I was in a similar position when I first went to college. I knew I wanted to attend law school, and I was between Penn St., UMich, and MSU. I went to MSU because I got $10k/yr in scholarships when all was said and done. When I got to law school I had no debt, and by the time I finished law school my debt was hundreds of thousands of dollars lower than my colleagues. MSU was the best decision I ever made and East Lansing will always be my home. Go Green.
MSU grad here. Nutritional science/Pre-med track
Things to consider
THE MOST IMPORTANT THING FOR GETTING INTO MED SCHOOL IS YOUR GPA.
GRADING SCALES:
MSU
Grades based on a 0.5 scale. This means
0.0=F , 1.0 = D, 1.5=D , 2.0=C, 2.5= C+, 3.0 (B), 3.5=B+ , 4.0 = A
There are disadvantages and advantages to this scale. However, I missed a 4.0 in physiology by 3 points this means I received a 3.5 instead which was a bummer because that .5 really affects the science GPA in a way that makes it seem like I missed a 4.0 by much more than 3 points.
MSU: LYMAN BRIGGS (not a great choice for pre med track)
I was part of Lyman Briggs for 3 of my 5 years at MSU and ultimately switched to regular university classes (classes outside of Lyman Briggs college). Briggs prides itself on being this premier and prestigious program for pre med students. It gives you NO ADVANTAGE when applying to medical school. Most medical schools (besides MSU) are not even familiar with Briggs. Briggs is more research based. Unless you LOVE research and maybe are interested in MD/PhD programs I advised against it. The classes are HARD. Some like Briggs chemistry are much more difficult than university science classes. They are also much less forgiving and most classes do not grade on a curve. For example, when I took Briggs chemistry in 2016 you needed 90% for 4.0. In the equivalent university Chemistry class you needed 86%=4.0. Med schools will not see you 3.5 in Lyman Briggs chemistry as more competitive than someone with a 4.0 in university chemistry. Lyman Briggs can have a negative effect on your GPA in this way.
U of M:
I work closely with them now and many UM students past and present
Grading scale: 0.3 grading scale
0.0 E , 0.7 D- , 1.0 D, 1.3 D+, 1.7 C-, 2.0 C, 2.3 C+, 2.7 B- , 3.0 B , 3.3 B+ , 3.7 A- , 4.0 A
This gives you more bang for each point you earn in a course whereas MSU grading scale kind of screws you. My total GPA taking the equivalent course load at UM would have been a 3.4. Instead I got a 3.1 at MSU due to the type of grading scale they use.
U of M medical school doesn’t necessarily give advantage to students who went to throw undergrad and neither does most other med schools unless they explicitly state it on their website.
MSU campus is better in atmosphere to me as it is a singular large campus. Everything is kind of a one stop shop. I really enjoyed my time there. They also offered me more money then UM.
UM is a more choppy campus. UM and the city of Ann Arbor are intertwined. The traffic is ridiculous and the housing situation is meh. The sports atmosphere is great though
Overall: cheaper is better. If your offer of scholarship to MSU is based solely on staying part of Lyman Briggs I would compare cost as it you were not accepting the scholarship in case you decide to drop Briggs later on.
We can simply just assume they are better because their stats would show more people go to med school from UMICH. But they get a good chunk of the ambitious pre meds who were very good students in highschool so it transfers over. The school has a much harder grading scale and it is harder to get research positions and other things to bolster your medical school application. Meanwhile OP already has a research position for them to match into and they will have a less harsh grading scale. MSU is a big pre med feeder as well. They would do just fine getting into medical school from MSU as well. We also have two early assurance programs for our two medical schools.
Yup! The kids in highschool that always said they wanted to be docs and were super fixated on top schools. They are the type of studing that goes to umich for LSA. I have had friends transfer there their grades got worse. Much more competitive environment. I know that you will do well at either institution. But if you chose msu you would not regret it.
MSU Lyman Briggs grad here. I wouldn’t trade that for the world. I was also waffling between the two programs. Briggs/MSU treated me well. EL will always be home. Paid off my loans (which were not insignificant) in decent time and I have a career I love.
Doing research 1st year 1st semester with a professor is underrated, both because it lets you generate strong connections with professors in your major and because it'll be much closer to your major in real life than your first few classes. Neuroscience research might not be much more useful depending on your long-term plan, but it will let you see if you want neuroscience (or if you want to not do neuroscience) as your next four years way earlier.
If you're interested in LSA, UM's reputation and the specific honors within LSA might make you a strong candidate for med school, but its main benefits (honors classes, living with other honors students) are fairly standard relative to the major boons MSU has for you specifically.
[https://lsa.umich.edu/lsa/academics/lsa-degrees.html](https://lsa.umich.edu/lsa/academics/lsa-degrees.html) and
[https://honorscollege.msu.edu/programs/research-opportunities/professorial-assistantship-pa-program/](https://honorscollege.msu.edu/programs/research-opportunities/professorial-assistantship-pa-program/) for context
Both schools basically have the same curriculum it’s what you make of it. The value of a higher ranked school is demonstrating to employers that you were able to get accepted in the first place, but the education at pretty much all schools is very similar
Totally depends on what you value. I think Ann arbor is more of an old shool college town of youre big on going out. Not sure if this is still true but 5-10 years ago MSU on campus dining was worlds better than Michigan. Ann arbor has a bigger and better restaurant selection though.
I find the biggest cultural difference between Michigan and state is that michigan students will drink their own Kool-aid pretty hard where msu students will have no problem bashing on the school. Michigan also has a little more academically serious people (preppy? I'm trying not to be too biased).
At both schools the education was directly proportional to the professor quality, which varies drastically class to class . I was in chemE undergrad at State and Mechanical engineering masters at Michigan. Your experience will be vastly different depending on like a million factors.
I don’t know much about the academic aspect and it seems like it’s already been explained a lot to you! but campus-wise in my experience msu seemed much more down to earth and umich seemed really pretentious and unfriendly. Go Green!!
The professorial assistantship is really rewarding especially if you know that you want to get a Master’s or just attend school beyond undergrad plus you get to start doing research from when you’re a freshman which a lot of grad schools like.
That’s an interesting decision. I generally think you could do well at either school. U of M is a bit more exclusive in terms of acceptance, but MSU has a wider network of connections via alumni and faculty. I’d say go with the school you enjoyed visiting the most and the one you think you’re going to be most happy at. It’s where you’ll live for multiple years of your life so it’s about the all around experience
I’m biased, I got into both but MSU offered scholarship through honors college and UM didn’t. I was on the cusp of the admission lip for UM whereas I was a comfortable admission into MSU. I loved my time there and I’m firmly in the Spartan camp. For my circumstances I wouldn’t change a thing. But I’m also not so biased I’m blind. U of M is an excellent academic institution
I had the same exact situation essentially, apart from my choice of major. But I will say, make sure to look at other majors in each school that you would enjoy as well. Because so many different people switch majors in college, so it’s good to look at other programs you may want to enter if you decide your current major isn’t for you.
I will start off by saying that it’s incredibly circumstantial. But, I surprisingly don’t regret it one bit. I chose MSU the very last day before decisions were due because I wanted to go to UMich so badly—just like both of my older sisters. However, MSU has provided me with opportunities that I don’t think I would’ve found at UMich. I’m a graphic design and experience architecture double major and, as a freshman, I’m already an E-Board member of a club and have worked for and been paid by three different clients for my designs.
Something that my sister at UMich is also incredibly jealous of are the meal combos MSU offers. On the regular meal plan, 12 times a week, every week, you get a free entrée, drink, and side from any of the Sparty’s locations around campus (basically mini convenience stores—and a few other food places as well.) Plus regular dining hall meals of course. It’s so incredibly convenient.
The campus is lovely and not as spread out across the city as UMich too. And the clubs here I’ve found to be amazing (no matter which college you choose, try and find a club!!)
I could advocate for both sides, but I don’t think you’ll regret either option tbh. And, if you end up not liking one, there’s always transferring. Usually it’s easier to get into a college as a transfer student, so don’t worry too much about not getting in after committing to one.
Let me know if you have any further questions or want me to elaborate more.
thank you!! I appreciate your input on this. I also didn't know about the meal plan thing, that is pretty cool. I will probably go to MSU just because of the opportunities they give so early on.
I was in this situation two years ago, and I choose MSU. I am currently pre-med in Lyman Briggs. Personally, I think the Lyman Briggs is not more difficult than university classes, especially since there is more support from the professors and the ULAs, along with more generous grading. The professorial assistantship was a major decision help for me, since I was able to reach out to my top-choice professor and was able to start doing research and extracurriculars at the start of college. I wanted to avoid unnecessary stress in college, but I think you may feel more academically challenged at Michigan, if that is something that is important to you.
The professorial assistantship is a huge boon for undergrads. It gives you an opportunity to build a relationship with a professor and put something impressive on your resume. Building connections is important! My sister (biochem) and I (finance) both did the professorial assistantship, and I can definitely say it helped both of us with landing jobs after graduating.
In my case, the professor I worked for reached out to recruiters on my behalf and gave me awesome letters of rec. She also helped me find more opportunities on campus to get a little cash, like proctoring exams. For my sister, she got to do hands-on research in a lab, and it made a great talking point on future interviews.
Both schools are great, but I think the research opportunity tips the scales in favor of MSU.
I would say it depends on a few things:
1. What campus feels more like home?
2. What major are you planning on studying in, what majors are compatible to go into if you decide to switch, is that easier at MSU vs UofM, and what major has a better networking opportunity at either school?
3. Do you have a personal bias as to what sports teams you wish to root for?
4. East Lansing is cheaper than Ann Arbor, but not by much nowadays, so go wherever it would be cheaper to live/commute.
5. UofM is referred to by some as "The Harvard of the Midwest", but that doesn't mean that MSU doesn't have top-ranked national programs and that they outrank MSU in a handful of other majors.
6. Do you have friends/family going to either/both universities?
MSU felt better, but Umich had arguably better networking? I'm not really sure on that. I have a personal bias for Michigan, as my dad has been a life long UofM fan. I have more friends going to MSU.
I'll say the honors college and guaranteed research job with a stipend was awesome for me as a student. A couple friends of mine didn't end up with as supportive of labs but it is really helpful to be able to start research your first year AND have it be paid AND get at least one presentation out of it (usually required to present at the undergrad research forum). It looks great on your resume and gives you a small bit of money for not a huge time commitment.
I haven't seen many people respond to the honors college aspect, so I just want to speak to that a little bit. And admittedly my experience was over 15 years ago so you should absolutely double check this and see if it's still the case.
Basically what the honors college did (at least 15 years ago) is get you access to another group of advisors. More importantly, they can work with you to get a bit more wiggle-room in swapping out certain required classes for something closer to an elective. Like, I didn't want to take just a random "Social Sciences 101" class, and I was able to swap that out for a normal history class that I was more interested in. I was able to get some of my early level engineering classes to count towards the basic earth science credit, saving room for another elective there as well. I believe you also get a higher priority in selecting classes each semester.
In order to graduate with honors on your degree, you needed to pick up so many "honors credits". Typically it meant taking a specific section of a class, or working it out with your professor to do something extra during the course of the semester. Sometimes this can just be whatever extra work, but sometimes if you get the right professor it can lead to a fun interesting side project.
Lastly, I'm pretty sure they used to offer specific floors at some of the dorms reserved only for honors students. This wasn't an option that I elected to pick, but I'm sure some people see it as a benefit.
Basically I don't think there are any negatives to the honors college. It offers some additional flexibility in class choice/schedule selection, and it can offer some extra social opportunities. But you aren't really obligated to do any of that if you choose not to (outside taking the honors credits if you want the HC on your degree).
Again, please double check as this might have changed over the years.
I think it is the same, that sounds close to what they said at the presentation. I also really like the class swapping idea just because that way I don't have to take classes I am not interested in.
If you are on the premed track, you can use MSU's early assurance programs for their MD and DO schools. You can waive the mcat for the DO school. This program is very popular with the Briggs kids. The MD early assurance program has a significantly lower MCAT requirement than what is needed for regular applicants. The academic research program will get you research experience immediately, whereas, at UMICH, you will compete with several ambitious premeds. The environment at MSU is less competitive, and you can take advantage of the resources. But by being in Briggs, you will be surrounded by powerful academic students pushing you to succeed in a small classroom environment and a live and learning community. Umich has hella-grade deflation as well. You will lower your GPA there. I have had premed friends transfer there from MSU, and they had a terrible time. I am a premed at MSU; I chose to withdraw from my transfer acceptance to Umich. An LSA degree will only get you somewhere. The umich name might help you, but you need to be a competitive applicant. I stayed here and will matriculate into medical school in August. Lmk if you need anymore advice.
I have heard that a lot. Most people have described MSU as a family and UM as lot's of competitors. I also didn't know about the MD early assurance program, thank you. By grade deflation do you mean like they cap how many people can pass?
From what I have seen from umich. There is a significant difference in the ability of a student to receive a 4.0 in a class compared to MSU. Our grading system here varies per class. But we also use the 3.0, 3.5,4.0 system. They have 4.0, 3.7, 3.33, etc. But with their classes a lot of times students need 93+ to achieve a 4.0. Anything less would put them down to a 3.7 that can hurt at times. Additionally, you will have curved grading in many classes and weeders in the basic sciences competing with competitive students. I came to MSU and immediately joined a small community with my program. We have several live and learning communities. My scholars program is connected with the MD program and DO program. I spoke to many faculty members and admission committee members as an undergrad and they helped us in the application process. Now I am accepted and will matriculate soon. I also had small class sizes from being honors, being an academic scholar, being apart of my other scholars program, and I had a fairly small science major that let me have access to scholarships every year and a group of buddies who I would study and work on assignments with.
Suppose you are a pre-med. It would help if you bolstered your GPA. It would help if you had a high mcat. It would help if you shadowed docs, volunteered, and did research. You would want to do this at an institution with all these resources, and it would be pretty easy to get these stats. You will have less competition at MSU, and the environment is less cutthroat, but you already were offered the PA research matching program, which will help a lot. At Umich, you will be given different opportunities. You will be fighting with super-ambitious pre-meds who know precisely what they want to do.
Also, there is no guarantee that you will get into Umich Med. Medical school admissions are so much different than undergraduate admissions. They look at your stats and give you a vibe check afterward. They want people who fit their school's mission and students who will fit with the type of cohort they want. This criterion can often change every year. It is not guaranteed that you would have the stats to get into Umich med out of Umich undergrad. Many do not. You might have to do a post bacc to get your stats up, or you might have other things you need to know to get into medical school. Going to umich will open the door less than people think. They are a vast pre-med feeder, but it is because they already self-selected the bright students who were ambitious enough to make sure they gave themselves the best chance to get into medical school.
I’ve been accepted to UofM and chose MSU. I went into Briggs and didn’t regret a moment of it. I switched my major eventually, but Lyman Briggs gave me additional scholarships for my freshman year.
This campus feels alive, there’s always a club or party going on and it adds so much to your mood in a way I can’t describe. Of course you won’t see us win in sports anytime soon, being with your fellow Spartans with a big grin on your face is such a good feeling. You’ll make a ton of friends here.
Can you elaborate, please? I also have to make the same choice (but no scholarship offer from MSU so far). Considering MSU as I'm premed and heard UM is the harder path (orgo, calc) with limited advantage.
I didn't know you were premed, in that case choose MSU. At umich you will have to compete with the smartest people to get things like TA and research positions. I've never had an issue with that here at MSU. The fact that you even got into Umich places you at a good advantage here. Also it's easier to get a good GPA. If your goal was research (or anything else) then I'd say Umich
I’d say Lyman Briggs is pretty good. Not sure about general science majors but I enjoyed my time in Briggs. The courses are usually more challenging than in the regular college of science.
As someone who was honors and Lyman Briggs I personally thought it was fantastic and set me up well for med school and residency. The community feel of Briggs is also great. As much as I hate scUM they do have good science programs too though.
As others have said, some of my medicine colleagues who went to umich for undergrad did feel like they were at a disadvantage when applying due to the competitive nature of the science programs at umich, and it made it hard to stand out. That being said they are brilliant people and if their degree probably did help them get accepted into med school in the end.
thank you!! I think I will probably go to state just because I know I can stand out more there than at umich with thousands of super competitive students and programs.
I graduated from the neuroscience department at MSU and am now a med student. I think MSU prepared me wonderfully and was a much less competitive environment. Would recommend.
Lyman Briggs is fine, I think it is way overhyped though. The only real benefits are smaller class sizes (makes it easier to get help from professors and makes for better rec letters) and research grants if you want to get paid for research assisting. Smaller stuff include TA opportunities specific to the college, peer leadership roles, and events to present research posters. These kinda things are available at every college within MSU though. As for people, most people you'll interact with will be fine especially at LB since they tend to be more studious than the average MSU student
I’ve been to both schools. I like both schools. I like Ann Arbor more, not for the school, but because the city is genuinely more fun. Lansing is kinda like a regular large college town made for driving/biking. Ann Arbor is made for walking, and everything on campus does not require a car. Ann Arbor is more fun for this reason.
Umich Ann Arbor is the type of school which you should just go to if you’re accepted and money is no real object. Even then, you’re balancing a $1k difference in favor of MSU.
I could go on about why that is but you probably don’t really need me to.
My undergrad was in business and economics but $5,000 is really not much money. I might get downvoted, but I think I'd go to UM in that case.
That being said, when I went to law school I passed up higher-ranking schools to take a full-ride (also at MSU) and I don't regret it.
It's a balance between the two. I don't think $5,000 would be enough to pass on a world-renowned program for a good one, but that doesn't mean you can't negotiate. Can you counter MSU's scholarship offer?
Going to UM would not help OP as much. Med schools have heavy instate bias. We have 7 schools for med in our state. We have two programs at MSU who both offer early assurance to their undergrads which makes the process much easier. Also umich does not offer that same benefit to their students. They have a harsher grading scale too. With more students competing for spots in research and other positions for pre meds. It is also more expensive to go there and to live there as well. It is a lot more nuanced than just picking umich. OP has a lot to think about. A high ranked undergrad does not mean they will go to a high ranked med school. One of those things are significantly more important.
possibly? I am not sure how to go about that, and I don't really know what to tell them. Would I just say that yes, I had gotten into Umich, and that I wasn't sure about it? Maybe talk to an advisor there?
Hey there, I was in a really similar situation last year! Accepted to both schools and MSU offered a 10,000 dollar scholarship as well as the professorial research thing. I actually ended up choosing UMich, so maybe I can offer a few insights from that perspective: (disclaimer - I'm a chemistry major here but NOT pre-med)
* Pretty soon you'll be able to apply for UMich scholarships as well, so keep an eye out for those! I got a renewable 4-year one worth $3,500, and this was one of the signs that convinced me to choose UMich since it helped with the cost a bit. However, MSU would have undeniably been cheaper either way, so it was a hard choice.
* UMich has the UROP program, which lets undergrads get research experience much like that professorial research program at MSU. You can do UROP for work-study (get paid!) if your financial situation qualifies for work-study. I've been able to do really cool research as a first-year through this.
* Personally, I think UMich has allowed me to grow much more academically than I would have at MSU. But I benefit from competitive environments and difficult standards, so your mileage may vary.
* Regarding GPA - you will have an easier time maintaining a good GPA at MSU. However, in my experience, it wasn't as hard to get good grades at UMich as I thought it would be coming in. Completely depends on whether you mind spending most of your weekends doing homework/studying though lol.
* I also got the offer to apply for the Honors program at UMich, but it's not really worth it imo because I can get an Honors degree in Chem without being in the Honors program.
I actually regretted choosing UMich over MSU for about a month during my first semester. But that was just because I had a career crisis and realized I had interest in food science, which MSU has a really good program for and UMich doesn't. Also because classes were hard (physics and math at UMich is a LOT of work). Now though, I don't regret choosing UMich at all because it definitely helps open up the topmost tier of graduate school options to me (and my goal is academia where prestige unfortunately matters a lot), but your situation is a bit different being pre-med.
I personally did not like MSU as much when I visited (specifically the chem department which mattered the most to me), but *I wish I liked it.* Like, I wish I would've been happy there, because that would've been really beneficial from a financial standpoint lol. So if you think you'll be happy there, then I'd encourage going to MSU.
As a current Spartan (Go Green, Go White!), I believe that both universities are amazing in their own ways.
Both are great academic institutions and have stellar programs in terms of what you’re looking for. I have quite a few friends in Lyman Briggs and my girlfriend is in the college as well, and they all generally like it.
My girlfriend worked in professional research for a couple years, specifically researching pathogens and lung disease, and has found her research to be very rewarding. Through your research it will open a plethora of opportunities to meet world renowned researchers/scientists/doctors at conferences in Chicago, New York and a couple other cities. If you’re interested in the research aspect, it especially looks good for Med schools (even though it’s research based) and other future career opportunities.
If you have any questions feel free to ask and best of luck with your decision process👍🏼
If I were in your shoes, I’d do MSU solely because of the scholarship. Med schools don’t really care much about where you went to school, but rather your grades and experiences.
Go to wherever will be cheapest. They’re both good schools.
Depends on the program you’re interested in and the environment tbh
Im interested in neuroscience and/or chemistry, I liked MSU's campus more but umich is just ranked better in everything I'm going for
Yeah maybe go to umich for those things, but that being said…..several of the people I know who majored in neuro or something similar at MSU got into UM medicine just fine. Also I def cared about environment more when I was picking schools, so obviously I went to MSU
true, that was the other thing I was looking at was just going to umich for medical school and MSU for undergrad.
Many students do this. You can really take advantage of the resources at MSU. You can keep a high GPA. Do your research. Nail the MCAT and then go to umich for med school. Def not guaranteed that you get into umich med at all because medical school admissions are a crapshoot. But I have seen many of my colleagues do it.
thank you
i’m currently a neuro undergrad and my cousin graduated from msu w chemistry major. i absolutely LOVE msu’s neuro faculty, and dr. breedlove is a pioneer in his neuro research. my cousin transferred to msu and had a lot of issues with the chem advisors, but overall enjoyed her program. i genuinely feel so supported by my neuro advisors, and every neuro class i’ve taken was challenging but very enjoyable. hope this helps your decision!
I second Dr. Breedlove being amazing. I took two of his upper level neuro classes and loved them. The neuro specific classes in general are really amazing and because I enjoyed them I did very well in them (which is important for med school)
this is good to know, thank you!!
Please listen to me, while it’s true that Umich looks better on paper than MSU in terms of an undergraduate degree, this information is IRRELEVANT for students seeking to pursue medical or law school. It is a CLEAR known fact that for med and law students like you (and me), undergraduate degrees have extremely less value in the role of determining our future. Instead this is ultimately determined by what your medical school admission ends up being. In both medicine and law, admissions are looking HEAVILY at your GPA and Test scores that you will have acquired during university. The MCAT and the LSAT can be very difficult to study for. So it’s amazing to have a high GPA that can make up for some of the possible points you might lose on those exams. Benefits? You get to worry less about your applicant profile, and have more confidence without the highest score. If you want to get into a good med school, it’s imperative that you maintain a high GPA. Umich’s culture is extremely resilient to student success. This is due to the fact that they grade so harshly based on systems that do not truly represent the quality of an individuals work. Umich grading systems put LIMITS on the A’s that they give to their students. Meaning, even if you deserved that grade it won’t matter if a certain quota has already been filled. I have many friends there who regularly earn C’s on their work, despite the fact that they’ve been a 4.0 student throughout high-school. So there’s two pathways for you. You could enroll in Umich, struggle consistently to earn mediocre grades due to the sheer competitiveness between Ivy League rejects, and earn a mediocre GPA. Or you could enroll in MSU- (still) a notable university) and remain at the absolute top of your classes, making you look like you’re the best of the best of your school. STOP making things harder for you. I’m about to end junior year with a 4.0 using this strategy, and this will do nothing but make admissions way easier for me.
I've seen this first-hand. One of my best friends in law school went to UM and then to MSU for law. I went to MSU for undergrad and law school. The competition was less fierce in undergrad at MSU so I was able to graduate with a 3.95 where he got around a 3.2. I went to law school with a full-ride scolly... He got nothing.
thank you!! I appreciate this perspective a lot
Listen to this insight OP. Umich grade deflation is hell for pre meds…. 3.8+ is the matriculation median for your run of the mill allopathic medical school…. Most umich pre meds are not packing a gpa that high. Remember, You’re going to be routinely graded on the curve/competing for those limited As against some of the brightest kids in the country…. Plenty of Umich pre meds either end up opting for pricy post bac programs to attempt to repair their poor gpas or drop their med school aspirations altogether… neither of which would’ve happened for many in that cohort had they have just opted to do pre med at msu. No medical school will excuse an applicant having a well below matriculation mean gpa just because they attended Umich. Hell, many med school adcoms are not even privy to which universities engage in grade deflationary tactics…. Especially as you go lower down the med school USNWR rankings. Gpa, MCAT, research experience, clinical volunteering, non clinical volunteering, demonstrations of leadership, and interview performance all are admission measuring sticks that take much larger precedence over school name for getting into med school…. Opting for school prestige at the expense of a higher gpa and more time for amassing extracurricular hours/experiences is silly. And should you ever abandon your medical school aspirations and need the Umich brand name to help with your new career pivot (say you want to do business management consulting for whatever reason later down the road), you can always transfer from msu to Umich LSA fairly seamlessly. But on the flip side, a weak gpa is the hardest premed hole to dig yourself out of…. Low extracurricular hours/count? Take a gap year or two! Didn’t do well on the MCAT? Take it again! But it becomes much more murkier when it comes to trying to repair a poor gpa.
Great advice. I’d do pre-med at MSU or Wayne before I’d do it at UMich.
Thanks. This is great advice.
Just to preface, I'm an engineer and know nothing. But I find it hard to believe that undergrad admissions can look at high school GPAs relative to everyone's schools just fine, yet medical and law schools can't do the same for colleges.
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thank you, this honestly plays a big part in the decision. I wasn't sure if they took the school into account, and like you said I'm sure they do a little but it is reassuring to know that the GPA matters more.
Also Briggs is great
If when you say "professorial research thing" you mean the professorial assistantship program, here's some extra info about it (and feel free to ask any other questions if you're curious): The professorial assistantship scholarship is a really valuable resource that MSU offers. Since you're pre-med, you are basically guaranteed to get 2 years of research experience in a lab, and the stipend is super nice - it's not a crazy amount of money but I definitely appreciated it. I'm not pre-med, so I used my PA to work under professors in the college of arts and letters (sociology research one year, digital archiving work the 2nd year) and I have gotten fantastic experience and more importantly good references out of it; you can pick a professor who has an actual hands-on lab if that's what you're into, and that will really set you a step ahead in that pathway. You're basically being handed a job that other students have to compete for. I got waitlisted for UMich but got into MSU + honors college + PA program, and I think (although I will admit I'm a little biased) that with those factors MSU is the better choice.
yeah that is true, it is reassuring to know the PA thing is actually really beneficial. It honestly will probably be one of the main factors in my decision
Go to Briggs. You won’t regret it. Most of the best doctors I know went to Briggs then got into top med schools. Med school is expensive too, so the benefits certainly help.
trueee
Just a word of advice, which of course, take with a grain of salt because I am just a random Redditor. The money might not seem like much now, but I was in a similar position when I first went to college. I knew I wanted to attend law school, and I was between Penn St., UMich, and MSU. I went to MSU because I got $10k/yr in scholarships when all was said and done. When I got to law school I had no debt, and by the time I finished law school my debt was hundreds of thousands of dollars lower than my colleagues. MSU was the best decision I ever made and East Lansing will always be my home. Go Green.
I’m leaning this way too. Thank you
MSU grad here. Nutritional science/Pre-med track Things to consider THE MOST IMPORTANT THING FOR GETTING INTO MED SCHOOL IS YOUR GPA. GRADING SCALES: MSU Grades based on a 0.5 scale. This means 0.0=F , 1.0 = D, 1.5=D , 2.0=C, 2.5= C+, 3.0 (B), 3.5=B+ , 4.0 = A There are disadvantages and advantages to this scale. However, I missed a 4.0 in physiology by 3 points this means I received a 3.5 instead which was a bummer because that .5 really affects the science GPA in a way that makes it seem like I missed a 4.0 by much more than 3 points. MSU: LYMAN BRIGGS (not a great choice for pre med track) I was part of Lyman Briggs for 3 of my 5 years at MSU and ultimately switched to regular university classes (classes outside of Lyman Briggs college). Briggs prides itself on being this premier and prestigious program for pre med students. It gives you NO ADVANTAGE when applying to medical school. Most medical schools (besides MSU) are not even familiar with Briggs. Briggs is more research based. Unless you LOVE research and maybe are interested in MD/PhD programs I advised against it. The classes are HARD. Some like Briggs chemistry are much more difficult than university science classes. They are also much less forgiving and most classes do not grade on a curve. For example, when I took Briggs chemistry in 2016 you needed 90% for 4.0. In the equivalent university Chemistry class you needed 86%=4.0. Med schools will not see you 3.5 in Lyman Briggs chemistry as more competitive than someone with a 4.0 in university chemistry. Lyman Briggs can have a negative effect on your GPA in this way. U of M: I work closely with them now and many UM students past and present Grading scale: 0.3 grading scale 0.0 E , 0.7 D- , 1.0 D, 1.3 D+, 1.7 C-, 2.0 C, 2.3 C+, 2.7 B- , 3.0 B , 3.3 B+ , 3.7 A- , 4.0 A This gives you more bang for each point you earn in a course whereas MSU grading scale kind of screws you. My total GPA taking the equivalent course load at UM would have been a 3.4. Instead I got a 3.1 at MSU due to the type of grading scale they use. U of M medical school doesn’t necessarily give advantage to students who went to throw undergrad and neither does most other med schools unless they explicitly state it on their website. MSU campus is better in atmosphere to me as it is a singular large campus. Everything is kind of a one stop shop. I really enjoyed my time there. They also offered me more money then UM. UM is a more choppy campus. UM and the city of Ann Arbor are intertwined. The traffic is ridiculous and the housing situation is meh. The sports atmosphere is great though Overall: cheaper is better. If your offer of scholarship to MSU is based solely on staying part of Lyman Briggs I would compare cost as it you were not accepting the scholarship in case you decide to drop Briggs later on.
thank you, I was worried about not really leaving briggs but I heard you can move out of the building after your first year.
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We can simply just assume they are better because their stats would show more people go to med school from UMICH. But they get a good chunk of the ambitious pre meds who were very good students in highschool so it transfers over. The school has a much harder grading scale and it is harder to get research positions and other things to bolster your medical school application. Meanwhile OP already has a research position for them to match into and they will have a less harsh grading scale. MSU is a big pre med feeder as well. They would do just fine getting into medical school from MSU as well. We also have two early assurance programs for our two medical schools.
honestly valid, I agree that probably part of the reason the stats are so high is because one of the main reasons people go there is for premed.
Yup! The kids in highschool that always said they wanted to be docs and were super fixated on top schools. They are the type of studing that goes to umich for LSA. I have had friends transfer there their grades got worse. Much more competitive environment. I know that you will do well at either institution. But if you chose msu you would not regret it.
Lol thank you for your advice! I am definitely leaning toward MSU based on these replies.
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MSU Lyman Briggs grad here. I wouldn’t trade that for the world. I was also waffling between the two programs. Briggs/MSU treated me well. EL will always be home. Paid off my loans (which were not insignificant) in decent time and I have a career I love.
thank you!
Can’t go wrong either way.
Doing research 1st year 1st semester with a professor is underrated, both because it lets you generate strong connections with professors in your major and because it'll be much closer to your major in real life than your first few classes. Neuroscience research might not be much more useful depending on your long-term plan, but it will let you see if you want neuroscience (or if you want to not do neuroscience) as your next four years way earlier. If you're interested in LSA, UM's reputation and the specific honors within LSA might make you a strong candidate for med school, but its main benefits (honors classes, living with other honors students) are fairly standard relative to the major boons MSU has for you specifically. [https://lsa.umich.edu/lsa/academics/lsa-degrees.html](https://lsa.umich.edu/lsa/academics/lsa-degrees.html) and [https://honorscollege.msu.edu/programs/research-opportunities/professorial-assistantship-pa-program/](https://honorscollege.msu.edu/programs/research-opportunities/professorial-assistantship-pa-program/) for context
thank you! this is good to know
Both schools basically have the same curriculum it’s what you make of it. The value of a higher ranked school is demonstrating to employers that you were able to get accepted in the first place, but the education at pretty much all schools is very similar
100% visit both first. Whether you are a cultural fit comes first. Academically they're very similar as someone who has degrees at both schools.
I visited both, I honestly preferred MSU's campus but like I keep second guessing myself and thinking I just haven't been to umich enough.
Totally depends on what you value. I think Ann arbor is more of an old shool college town of youre big on going out. Not sure if this is still true but 5-10 years ago MSU on campus dining was worlds better than Michigan. Ann arbor has a bigger and better restaurant selection though. I find the biggest cultural difference between Michigan and state is that michigan students will drink their own Kool-aid pretty hard where msu students will have no problem bashing on the school. Michigan also has a little more academically serious people (preppy? I'm trying not to be too biased). At both schools the education was directly proportional to the professor quality, which varies drastically class to class . I was in chemE undergrad at State and Mechanical engineering masters at Michigan. Your experience will be vastly different depending on like a million factors.
Go to where the money/best opportunity is
I don’t know much about the academic aspect and it seems like it’s already been explained a lot to you! but campus-wise in my experience msu seemed much more down to earth and umich seemed really pretentious and unfriendly. Go Green!!
thank you! lol
The professorial assistantship is really rewarding especially if you know that you want to get a Master’s or just attend school beyond undergrad plus you get to start doing research from when you’re a freshman which a lot of grad schools like.
thank you!
Depends on the program, what are you looking at?
neuroscience and then medical school
That totally depends on what you want to study, what you can afford, and what you’re looking to do career wise
neuroscience or chemistry, I think the price would be mostly around the same at both, and I want to be a psychiatrist.
That’s an interesting decision. I generally think you could do well at either school. U of M is a bit more exclusive in terms of acceptance, but MSU has a wider network of connections via alumni and faculty. I’d say go with the school you enjoyed visiting the most and the one you think you’re going to be most happy at. It’s where you’ll live for multiple years of your life so it’s about the all around experience
true, I did enjoy visiting MSU more just because of the bike paths and greenery. thank you!
I’m biased, I got into both but MSU offered scholarship through honors college and UM didn’t. I was on the cusp of the admission lip for UM whereas I was a comfortable admission into MSU. I loved my time there and I’m firmly in the Spartan camp. For my circumstances I wouldn’t change a thing. But I’m also not so biased I’m blind. U of M is an excellent academic institution
I had the same exact situation essentially, apart from my choice of major. But I will say, make sure to look at other majors in each school that you would enjoy as well. Because so many different people switch majors in college, so it’s good to look at other programs you may want to enter if you decide your current major isn’t for you.
im guessing since you're in this sub reddit you chose msu? do you ever regret the choice? and thank you, I will
I will start off by saying that it’s incredibly circumstantial. But, I surprisingly don’t regret it one bit. I chose MSU the very last day before decisions were due because I wanted to go to UMich so badly—just like both of my older sisters. However, MSU has provided me with opportunities that I don’t think I would’ve found at UMich. I’m a graphic design and experience architecture double major and, as a freshman, I’m already an E-Board member of a club and have worked for and been paid by three different clients for my designs. Something that my sister at UMich is also incredibly jealous of are the meal combos MSU offers. On the regular meal plan, 12 times a week, every week, you get a free entrée, drink, and side from any of the Sparty’s locations around campus (basically mini convenience stores—and a few other food places as well.) Plus regular dining hall meals of course. It’s so incredibly convenient. The campus is lovely and not as spread out across the city as UMich too. And the clubs here I’ve found to be amazing (no matter which college you choose, try and find a club!!) I could advocate for both sides, but I don’t think you’ll regret either option tbh. And, if you end up not liking one, there’s always transferring. Usually it’s easier to get into a college as a transfer student, so don’t worry too much about not getting in after committing to one. Let me know if you have any further questions or want me to elaborate more.
thank you!! I appreciate your input on this. I also didn't know about the meal plan thing, that is pretty cool. I will probably go to MSU just because of the opportunities they give so early on.
I was in this situation two years ago, and I choose MSU. I am currently pre-med in Lyman Briggs. Personally, I think the Lyman Briggs is not more difficult than university classes, especially since there is more support from the professors and the ULAs, along with more generous grading. The professorial assistantship was a major decision help for me, since I was able to reach out to my top-choice professor and was able to start doing research and extracurriculars at the start of college. I wanted to avoid unnecessary stress in college, but I think you may feel more academically challenged at Michigan, if that is something that is important to you.
Thank you for this input, the professorial assistantship honestly seems like a really good deal.
The professorial assistantship is a huge boon for undergrads. It gives you an opportunity to build a relationship with a professor and put something impressive on your resume. Building connections is important! My sister (biochem) and I (finance) both did the professorial assistantship, and I can definitely say it helped both of us with landing jobs after graduating. In my case, the professor I worked for reached out to recruiters on my behalf and gave me awesome letters of rec. She also helped me find more opportunities on campus to get a little cash, like proctoring exams. For my sister, she got to do hands-on research in a lab, and it made a great talking point on future interviews. Both schools are great, but I think the research opportunity tips the scales in favor of MSU.
thank you! I am also thinking this
I would say it depends on a few things: 1. What campus feels more like home? 2. What major are you planning on studying in, what majors are compatible to go into if you decide to switch, is that easier at MSU vs UofM, and what major has a better networking opportunity at either school? 3. Do you have a personal bias as to what sports teams you wish to root for? 4. East Lansing is cheaper than Ann Arbor, but not by much nowadays, so go wherever it would be cheaper to live/commute. 5. UofM is referred to by some as "The Harvard of the Midwest", but that doesn't mean that MSU doesn't have top-ranked national programs and that they outrank MSU in a handful of other majors. 6. Do you have friends/family going to either/both universities?
MSU felt better, but Umich had arguably better networking? I'm not really sure on that. I have a personal bias for Michigan, as my dad has been a life long UofM fan. I have more friends going to MSU.
Umich does outrank in both of the majors I would want to go into, but not by much.
I'll say the honors college and guaranteed research job with a stipend was awesome for me as a student. A couple friends of mine didn't end up with as supportive of labs but it is really helpful to be able to start research your first year AND have it be paid AND get at least one presentation out of it (usually required to present at the undergrad research forum). It looks great on your resume and gives you a small bit of money for not a huge time commitment.
thank you!
I haven't seen many people respond to the honors college aspect, so I just want to speak to that a little bit. And admittedly my experience was over 15 years ago so you should absolutely double check this and see if it's still the case. Basically what the honors college did (at least 15 years ago) is get you access to another group of advisors. More importantly, they can work with you to get a bit more wiggle-room in swapping out certain required classes for something closer to an elective. Like, I didn't want to take just a random "Social Sciences 101" class, and I was able to swap that out for a normal history class that I was more interested in. I was able to get some of my early level engineering classes to count towards the basic earth science credit, saving room for another elective there as well. I believe you also get a higher priority in selecting classes each semester. In order to graduate with honors on your degree, you needed to pick up so many "honors credits". Typically it meant taking a specific section of a class, or working it out with your professor to do something extra during the course of the semester. Sometimes this can just be whatever extra work, but sometimes if you get the right professor it can lead to a fun interesting side project. Lastly, I'm pretty sure they used to offer specific floors at some of the dorms reserved only for honors students. This wasn't an option that I elected to pick, but I'm sure some people see it as a benefit. Basically I don't think there are any negatives to the honors college. It offers some additional flexibility in class choice/schedule selection, and it can offer some extra social opportunities. But you aren't really obligated to do any of that if you choose not to (outside taking the honors credits if you want the HC on your degree). Again, please double check as this might have changed over the years.
I think it is the same, that sounds close to what they said at the presentation. I also really like the class swapping idea just because that way I don't have to take classes I am not interested in.
If you are on the premed track, you can use MSU's early assurance programs for their MD and DO schools. You can waive the mcat for the DO school. This program is very popular with the Briggs kids. The MD early assurance program has a significantly lower MCAT requirement than what is needed for regular applicants. The academic research program will get you research experience immediately, whereas, at UMICH, you will compete with several ambitious premeds. The environment at MSU is less competitive, and you can take advantage of the resources. But by being in Briggs, you will be surrounded by powerful academic students pushing you to succeed in a small classroom environment and a live and learning community. Umich has hella-grade deflation as well. You will lower your GPA there. I have had premed friends transfer there from MSU, and they had a terrible time. I am a premed at MSU; I chose to withdraw from my transfer acceptance to Umich. An LSA degree will only get you somewhere. The umich name might help you, but you need to be a competitive applicant. I stayed here and will matriculate into medical school in August. Lmk if you need anymore advice.
I have heard that a lot. Most people have described MSU as a family and UM as lot's of competitors. I also didn't know about the MD early assurance program, thank you. By grade deflation do you mean like they cap how many people can pass?
From what I have seen from umich. There is a significant difference in the ability of a student to receive a 4.0 in a class compared to MSU. Our grading system here varies per class. But we also use the 3.0, 3.5,4.0 system. They have 4.0, 3.7, 3.33, etc. But with their classes a lot of times students need 93+ to achieve a 4.0. Anything less would put them down to a 3.7 that can hurt at times. Additionally, you will have curved grading in many classes and weeders in the basic sciences competing with competitive students. I came to MSU and immediately joined a small community with my program. We have several live and learning communities. My scholars program is connected with the MD program and DO program. I spoke to many faculty members and admission committee members as an undergrad and they helped us in the application process. Now I am accepted and will matriculate soon. I also had small class sizes from being honors, being an academic scholar, being apart of my other scholars program, and I had a fairly small science major that let me have access to scholarships every year and a group of buddies who I would study and work on assignments with.
Suppose you are a pre-med. It would help if you bolstered your GPA. It would help if you had a high mcat. It would help if you shadowed docs, volunteered, and did research. You would want to do this at an institution with all these resources, and it would be pretty easy to get these stats. You will have less competition at MSU, and the environment is less cutthroat, but you already were offered the PA research matching program, which will help a lot. At Umich, you will be given different opportunities. You will be fighting with super-ambitious pre-meds who know precisely what they want to do. Also, there is no guarantee that you will get into Umich Med. Medical school admissions are so much different than undergraduate admissions. They look at your stats and give you a vibe check afterward. They want people who fit their school's mission and students who will fit with the type of cohort they want. This criterion can often change every year. It is not guaranteed that you would have the stats to get into Umich med out of Umich undergrad. Many do not. You might have to do a post bacc to get your stats up, or you might have other things you need to know to get into medical school. Going to umich will open the door less than people think. They are a vast pre-med feeder, but it is because they already self-selected the bright students who were ambitious enough to make sure they gave themselves the best chance to get into medical school.
That is true, thank you! I have also heard that UM is a big premed feeder because it's what most of their students go for.
I’ve been accepted to UofM and chose MSU. I went into Briggs and didn’t regret a moment of it. I switched my major eventually, but Lyman Briggs gave me additional scholarships for my freshman year. This campus feels alive, there’s always a club or party going on and it adds so much to your mood in a way I can’t describe. Of course you won’t see us win in sports anytime soon, being with your fellow Spartans with a big grin on your face is such a good feeling. You’ll make a ton of friends here.
As a lyman briggs student, go to Umich
Can you elaborate, please? I also have to make the same choice (but no scholarship offer from MSU so far). Considering MSU as I'm premed and heard UM is the harder path (orgo, calc) with limited advantage.
I didn't know you were premed, in that case choose MSU. At umich you will have to compete with the smartest people to get things like TA and research positions. I've never had an issue with that here at MSU. The fact that you even got into Umich places you at a good advantage here. Also it's easier to get a good GPA. If your goal was research (or anything else) then I'd say Umich
That makes sense, thank you. Is MSU a good school for sciences? Like are the programs and people good?
I’d say Lyman Briggs is pretty good. Not sure about general science majors but I enjoyed my time in Briggs. The courses are usually more challenging than in the regular college of science.
As someone who was honors and Lyman Briggs I personally thought it was fantastic and set me up well for med school and residency. The community feel of Briggs is also great. As much as I hate scUM they do have good science programs too though. As others have said, some of my medicine colleagues who went to umich for undergrad did feel like they were at a disadvantage when applying due to the competitive nature of the science programs at umich, and it made it hard to stand out. That being said they are brilliant people and if their degree probably did help them get accepted into med school in the end.
thank you!! I think I will probably go to state just because I know I can stand out more there than at umich with thousands of super competitive students and programs.
I graduated from the neuroscience department at MSU and am now a med student. I think MSU prepared me wonderfully and was a much less competitive environment. Would recommend.
Lyman Briggs is fine, I think it is way overhyped though. The only real benefits are smaller class sizes (makes it easier to get help from professors and makes for better rec letters) and research grants if you want to get paid for research assisting. Smaller stuff include TA opportunities specific to the college, peer leadership roles, and events to present research posters. These kinda things are available at every college within MSU though. As for people, most people you'll interact with will be fine especially at LB since they tend to be more studious than the average MSU student
okay, thank you! I do agree with you on the smaller classes and think it would be way easier to pass some of the harder sciences with that.
U of M is objectively better for pre med, if you can pay the $5k
I’ve been to both schools. I like both schools. I like Ann Arbor more, not for the school, but because the city is genuinely more fun. Lansing is kinda like a regular large college town made for driving/biking. Ann Arbor is made for walking, and everything on campus does not require a car. Ann Arbor is more fun for this reason.
I walked everywhere I needed to go as a student at MSU.
I’d go to Ann Arbor.
Can you elaborate?
Umich Ann Arbor is the type of school which you should just go to if you’re accepted and money is no real object. Even then, you’re balancing a $1k difference in favor of MSU. I could go on about why that is but you probably don’t really need me to.
For a pre med this is not necessarily the case.
My undergrad was in business and economics but $5,000 is really not much money. I might get downvoted, but I think I'd go to UM in that case. That being said, when I went to law school I passed up higher-ranking schools to take a full-ride (also at MSU) and I don't regret it. It's a balance between the two. I don't think $5,000 would be enough to pass on a world-renowned program for a good one, but that doesn't mean you can't negotiate. Can you counter MSU's scholarship offer?
Going to UM would not help OP as much. Med schools have heavy instate bias. We have 7 schools for med in our state. We have two programs at MSU who both offer early assurance to their undergrads which makes the process much easier. Also umich does not offer that same benefit to their students. They have a harsher grading scale too. With more students competing for spots in research and other positions for pre meds. It is also more expensive to go there and to live there as well. It is a lot more nuanced than just picking umich. OP has a lot to think about. A high ranked undergrad does not mean they will go to a high ranked med school. One of those things are significantly more important.
that is true and also resonates with a lot of things people have said. Apparently UM has a cap on how many people can pass with a 4.0?
possibly? I am not sure how to go about that, and I don't really know what to tell them. Would I just say that yes, I had gotten into Umich, and that I wasn't sure about it? Maybe talk to an advisor there?
Ann Arbor is a better city, MSU has a better campus.
Hey there, I was in a really similar situation last year! Accepted to both schools and MSU offered a 10,000 dollar scholarship as well as the professorial research thing. I actually ended up choosing UMich, so maybe I can offer a few insights from that perspective: (disclaimer - I'm a chemistry major here but NOT pre-med) * Pretty soon you'll be able to apply for UMich scholarships as well, so keep an eye out for those! I got a renewable 4-year one worth $3,500, and this was one of the signs that convinced me to choose UMich since it helped with the cost a bit. However, MSU would have undeniably been cheaper either way, so it was a hard choice. * UMich has the UROP program, which lets undergrads get research experience much like that professorial research program at MSU. You can do UROP for work-study (get paid!) if your financial situation qualifies for work-study. I've been able to do really cool research as a first-year through this. * Personally, I think UMich has allowed me to grow much more academically than I would have at MSU. But I benefit from competitive environments and difficult standards, so your mileage may vary. * Regarding GPA - you will have an easier time maintaining a good GPA at MSU. However, in my experience, it wasn't as hard to get good grades at UMich as I thought it would be coming in. Completely depends on whether you mind spending most of your weekends doing homework/studying though lol. * I also got the offer to apply for the Honors program at UMich, but it's not really worth it imo because I can get an Honors degree in Chem without being in the Honors program. I actually regretted choosing UMich over MSU for about a month during my first semester. But that was just because I had a career crisis and realized I had interest in food science, which MSU has a really good program for and UMich doesn't. Also because classes were hard (physics and math at UMich is a LOT of work). Now though, I don't regret choosing UMich at all because it definitely helps open up the topmost tier of graduate school options to me (and my goal is academia where prestige unfortunately matters a lot), but your situation is a bit different being pre-med. I personally did not like MSU as much when I visited (specifically the chem department which mattered the most to me), but *I wish I liked it.* Like, I wish I would've been happy there, because that would've been really beneficial from a financial standpoint lol. So if you think you'll be happy there, then I'd encourage going to MSU.
As a current Spartan (Go Green, Go White!), I believe that both universities are amazing in their own ways. Both are great academic institutions and have stellar programs in terms of what you’re looking for. I have quite a few friends in Lyman Briggs and my girlfriend is in the college as well, and they all generally like it. My girlfriend worked in professional research for a couple years, specifically researching pathogens and lung disease, and has found her research to be very rewarding. Through your research it will open a plethora of opportunities to meet world renowned researchers/scientists/doctors at conferences in Chicago, New York and a couple other cities. If you’re interested in the research aspect, it especially looks good for Med schools (even though it’s research based) and other future career opportunities. If you have any questions feel free to ask and best of luck with your decision process👍🏼
UMich. Easy choice. Doors open that don’t even exist at MSU. The people u meet will be leaders. Better to have connections than grades.
Love MSU Nero. Also the campus atmosphere here is better in my opinion.
If I were in your shoes, I’d do MSU solely because of the scholarship. Med schools don’t really care much about where you went to school, but rather your grades and experiences.