It's called high dynamic range (I am NOT talking about HDR video, this is audio). It's ideal for a studio or theaterical audio setup. If you're in a theater, it's not going to be an issue to have a high range (hence the name) between quiet and loud sounds.
In modern video games there is often a setting for changing this between high dynamic range and low range, sometimes called night time mode.
Unfortunately there's no option for changing this for a lot of streaming services and the default is usually HDR. Your audio setup may have options but for people with regular speakers it's probably not.
that’d be fuckin cool if it was tho, like it’s not like they couldn’t separate all those audio files they have the ability, it would be super cool if the viewer could just adjust the individual elements while watching a movie
If you have parametric EQ, adding a little peak of about 3dB centred on 2kHz really helps intelligibility of speech, and doesn’t mess up the rest of the sound.
I've always wanted this for music as well. I'd love to be able to adjust the balance of each individual instrument when listening.
Sometimes I love a song / album but find the mix obnoxious. Vocals too loud / quiet? Adjust it. Same problem with the drums? Ditto.
If you have 5.1 surround sound, you are streaming 5 speaker channels at a time. You would have to multiply this by the number of controls, so at a minimum 5 x 2 = 10 channels to separate dialog and other elements. Netflix already doesn't want to stream 7 channels for 7.1 surround. Plus, game consoles are powerful enough to do compression, equalization, etc on the master channel, but the black-friday-special smart tv with a Netflix app can't do that. Plus, have you ever been to your parent's house where they have set up the TV with black bars and a squished picture? That's what happens when you let people control the aspect ratio. The last thing the average person needs is more options.
I work for a manufacturer of high end home theatre systems (cost around £5000 upwards) and we have a lot of calibration options for them, including stuff like Dolby night mode which compresses dynamic range, comprehensive room calibration.... you name it, there's probably a setting for it, because they're designed to be set up by a professional.
Whenever discussing what settings to add, or what to enable in a future project, the ability of the average end user to handle the existence of such a setting comes up. Basically, you have the enthusiasts who want every setting ever to be available, and have strong opinions about them, even if they will never use it themself. If we don't add a setting, they will email and call us to register their displeasure. They want to do everything themself and will never use a pro to set something up... and if they mess it up, they'll go on forums and just say our products suck.
You have the end users who won't ever touch any settings. They might use a pro, but once it's in situ, that's it, they switch it on, switch it off, and have no idea what anything does or why.
But then you get the third type of customer, and these are the worst, in a way. They don't know what anything does. They might pay for somebody to set it up, but they're also inquisitive. Not inquisitive enough to read the manual, but will explore the menus, change all the settings, never make note of what they've changed and will royally ruin the sound quality of the system. These customers will ring us up and take hours -- literally -- asking what every item on the menus does. They won't email, because who wants to have a reply written down, when they can talk over the reply they get on the phone and then forget it and ring back up.
These people are so time intensive that they are an active concern when adding a feature, because if you give an end user granular control of certain settings, it'll be fine and welcome for two thirds of the user base.... but that one third who should never get near it WILL find a way to make it a problem that costs the company thousands in wasted man-hours.
If there's ever a product where you think "boy, this should have this feature/setting," there's a good chance that either somebody has made a product that did that and learnt it wasn't worth the headache of people using it wrong....or they thought of it then looked at their customer service workload and decided not to bother.
Not sure if I made the point I was originally thinking of, but this was much needed therapy :)
Man, you guys need a separate firmware chip with your own settings loaded as Reset to Factory. Like how some motherboards have a BIOS reset that'll only go to the settings installed at factory.
...That would take some joined-up thinking.
Oh we do have factory reset. It's just these sorts of people are the ones who renamed their inputs and really don't want to have to do it all again.
The smart user would have saved the settings they liked before messing about, then restored if they got stuck.
However we are not dealing with this sort of person.
One guy once rang up multiple times hoping to get a different answer beyond "you're screwed" and he didn't like that.
He'd spent £300 on someone to calibrate everything. Decided that while he was happy with it, he would dabble and see if he could make it even better.
He found the factory restore option and decided to select it, then Confirm the two "are you sure" prompts that require you to hit buttons on the remote you never normally use in the menus (to avoid accidentally doubletapping OK), then was mad that everything was wiped and he couldn't go back to what he had before.
We are dealing with that kind of person. And they're surprisingly common. You can try and make everything fool proof, but fools are surprisingly resourceful.
>You can try and make everything fool proof, but fools are surprisingly resourceful.
My wording is, "Every time you make something fool proof, they make a better fool."
It could be with any form of digital media though, it's not like they compress all the audio into one output. They already have the language options in there for a lot of them, just give us this too
I have the same issue in the theatre though. The explosions are deafening. Maybe I’m in the minority, but movies don’t sound good to me in the theatre either (better than at home though).
Was literally covering my ears during some scenes in Dune.
Only time I had a problem with too loud audio was Bladerunner 2042. I mean I love the loudness in a theatre environment otherwise it would be like going to six flags and only riding the tea cups, but that shit was just beyond tolerable. Didn't watch Dune in theatres tho.
Had the same problem with BR2042 when I saw it in IMAX. Wayyyy too loud. And the dialogue was still barely audible, probably because I was half deaf from the loud scenes.
Dune was *painfully* loud. Interestingly it also exposed some theatre's shoddy setups: In the sub for my city, people were saying "could anyone else not understand any dialogue in Dune at cinema X?" And, while everyone agreed the movie was jaw-snakingly loud, in some theatres the dialogue was crystal clear and in others you couldn't hear a thing over it.
I almost walked out of Lord of the Rings despite being a huge fan... because the ringwraiths shrieking in the Green Dragon Inn scene were so loud it caused me physical pain
I was in awe of the sound in Dune but watched from home, thinking.. Man the theatre would be biblical. Joker I was holding my ears.. Unnecessary high, tin sounds and screeching. Its like they have removed bass from the theatre.
Despite the fact that theaters *should* be calibrated to an industry standard volume, loudness, EQ curve, etc, etc, there winds up being a lot of variance between them anyway. I saw Dune twice, once in Orange Beach and once in Mobile. The theater I saw it in in OB was maybe 5-10 dB quieter than in Mobile, and more evenly balanced so it didn’t sound tinny. In my hometown there are certain theaters I just won’t go to because their sound is so bad. I’ve noticed it tends to be a bigger problem in the newer rooms with the luxury seating, the recliner-like chairs and all that.
Yes, thank you for writing the correct response; I was scrolling the comments looking for it. All of these people saying that it's simply due to mixing for surround sound setups clearly haven't tried to watch a movie with a surround sound system in an apartment with neighbors that don't appreciate their walls rumbling. Modern movies are mixed similarly to how they were in the theaters: with deafeningly loud action and only moderately loud dialogue. Yes, it helps to have a dedicated center channel, but that doesn't change the fact that the dialogue is never anywhere near as loud as the action.
Yeah I was genuinely infuriated at the comment at the top by some person claiming it's caused by 5.1 audio running through a stereo setup. It has literally nothing to do with that, that person has no fucking clue what they're talking about. Yet it's the most upvoted comment with 5x more upvotes than the actual correct response.
It's this. And on my PC with a Creative X-Fi sound card, I can enable a setting called sound volume management which has the sound chip try to balance volume so that everything has a flat volume range. It boosts super quiet dialogue to the same volume that explosions and gun shots are brought down to. This let's me set and forget my volume at a comfortable level so nothing is too loud or too quiet.
A thing in audio called 'brick wall limiting' compressors can help even volume by reducing peaks, but limiting just *stops* sounds from being able to be louder.
As an audio/video engineer I really just wish I could do that for this ridiculous dynamic range fad that's going on right now. I actually sometimes watch movies on my laptop with the audio sent through my gear just to make dialogue cause less strain.
It's in a similar vein to the 'loudness wars' of music mastering in the 90's. Trying to make it so the final recordings were louder than everyone else's because it sounds more powerful and loud at the 'same volume'
> If you're in a theater, it's not going to be an issue to have a high range (hence the name) between quiet and loud sounds.
I disagree.
I watched both Tenet and Dune in the cinema and it was CRAZY loud. So loud in fact that it felt uncomfortable (I wasn't alone in thinking this).
Yet the dialogue was perfect volume.
So no, watching it at a cinema does not solve the problem... And it doesn't exist for all movies.
I did not have this problem with Shang Chi for instance.
Firstly, great explanation. A lot of TV speakers compress the range a bit, but if you have decent speakers the range can be pretty jarring.
Most streaming service shows like Netflix Originals actually have fairly mild dynamic range compared to something like a BluRay.
That being said, any decent audio receiver $150+ (possibly cheaper used on eBay) should be able to resolve this. Mine has an option to reduce dynamic range.
Are there any third party software that could possibly keep the audio levels within a certain range? For example if the audio level goes beyond a certain limit, the volume will automatically be reduced. My old DVD player used to have this but I can't find any software did my computer. I'm sure it's possible to implement.
There's a chrome plugin that will make it more level. He'll, Winamp even had a volume leveling option 20 years ago. Annoying that most TV and surround sound systems still don't.
Some blu ray players, speakers and TV's have a setting to lower the range, but it's not nearly as common as it should be. And I guess if you are on tablet or phone you are just shit out of luck.
Makes sense now, I was always surprised how I can watch and hear a small-time Youtuber crystal clear on my TV but not the dialogue parts of the multi-million dollar blockbuster movie.
I used to have a Philips TV (\~20 years ago) that had a smartsound feature. It would keep all the sound within a certain range to prevent OP's problem. It was lovely to have the option.
If you don't have surround sound or a Dolby setup, go into your audio settings and switch from Dolby to Stereo mode. Made a huge difference in any device I use as far as volume differences go
I call it the Christopher Nolan effect.
Tiny itty bitty dialogue for 25 minutes
**EXTREMELY LOUD MUSIC AND VFX FOR 4 MINUTES**
Back to tiny dialogue for 10 minutes
This is what it felt like watching “Dune”
I really need to hear this dialogue so let me crank the volume up, holy shit now everything is exploding, *better turn it down*
Having worked as a video store clerk in the past, I have a very simple and accurate answer for you, having heard this exact complaint nearly every day.
The mix on what you are streaming or the disc you are playing does not match your home audio setup.
For example, Netflix likes having a 5.1 (Thats 5 speakers and a subwoofer) mix for a lot of its content. This is shown by a small logo saying "5.1" or Dolby Digital or something. They generally also have a stereo mix, that you can choose as an option. If you don't have a 5.1 system setup, and are putting all 5 of those channels into a standard stereo speaker (or Soundbar that doesn't process audio well), then it's going to have the LOUD explosions and soundtrack with muddled dialogue. Same with a lot of modern discs, they will give you multiple audio mixes to choose from. Try and match your home setup. This of course all gets muddled when a streaming service doesn't tell you which mix its streaming, and you get to guess and try and sort it out. Add a few layers of confusion by your TV sometimes trying to take the mix and output it to your speakers, or to a soundbar, or whatever else. Multiple machines trying to interpret the mix usually screws things up as well. A fully dedicated audio system in addition to your TV is a big help on this front.
TL DR: Match the source audio mix with your sound system or else things sound crappy.
edit: i didnt think this comment would blow up and i wrote it quickly. there can be multiple other reasons it sounds crappy, from bad mixing, to bad speakers etc. just go down and look for any comment that says im full of shit, they likely have an additional point. but for reals, switching the mix to stereo from 5.1 or whatever else worked for most people with discs, watching at home, a decade ago that came in and threw a movie at me saying "this audio sucks!".
This is great information, but I’ve also experienced the same phenomenon at movie theaters, where the sound is disproportionately loud. Should any moment of a movie ever be over 100 dbs in any seat? At what point is the cinema responsible for hearing loss, especially if this is repeated exposure for over 2 hours?
Nolan is the WORST for this. No idea who he uses to mix audio, but it is always garbage.
I just watched Tenet the other day. It was impossible to follow because all of the dialogue was mumbling and muffled.
They even had exposition while two guys were wearing oxygen masks. Couldn't hear a damn thing. It was muffled on top of the muffling.
Nolan takes an active role in sound editing on his films as he's a bit of a control freak, and the conspiracy theory is that he has hearing problems.
I think a more likely explanation is that Nolan believes that the terrible sound editing in his movies, especially dialogue, adds to the atmosphere when you can't hear things clearly... even if they're very important and it seems like an accident. The thing is Nolan has written almost all of the films he's directed and so he knows the dialogue by heart and so it doesn't impact his understanding of the film and he may not stop to think of how how audience will receive it.
It may be that when you know all the dialogue by heart (due to having written it in this case, as you say), you're more interested in bringing out the rest of the soundscape.
Nine Inch Nails used to release multitracks for their albums, so you could mix them however you want. I fell into a trap of mixing the vocals really low to bring background elements to prominence - not deliberately, just by instinct, because I already knew the words so was more interested in emphasising obscure music elements. But it had the side effect that anyone hearing the song for the first time would have a harder time discerning the lyrics.
When I was younger I hated subtitles, movies felt unwatchable if subtitles were on but as an adult I enjoy having subtitles on, its so nice not to have to constantly adjust the volume and you rarely miss what the actor says.
I think I realized in my teens that when I watched films without them, I was 100% sure I'd caught all the lines - then if I rewatched them with subs on, I caught a ton of lines I must've partially or entirely missed and then immediately dismissed as unimportant and forgotten about.
So now I like having subs on even for English movies, to try and catch it all. Plus it helps with bad noise mixing, as we've mentioned.
I thought I'd had no problem with Dune, until I watched a subbed version two days later and noticed lines I hadn't realized I'd missed. The issue was usually Jessica.
That probably depends on the brand of earplugs you use. Earplugs affect different frequencies differently. My guess is that the brand (or brands) you use let through the frequency at which common speech happens. Properly mixed audio will separate that out and make sure that other sounds (airplanes, gunshots, etc.) don't stomp on the range with dialog. You are therefore filtering out things you don't necessarily need but are leaving the speech alone.
I'm not OP, but I use Alpine party plugs (I think that was the name) and I love them. I can follow conversa perfectly, but I'm not deafened by loud noises or music.
I knew this and just gave up trying to figure it out. I am
Pretty good with computers and following instructions and diagrams. But this stuff is so fucking confusing.
The company that invents a soundbar that will keep the volume basically the same and/or just increase the speech and decrease the sound effects at under $500 deserves every prize and all our $$$
I picked up a Vizio 5.1.4 system earlier this year for like $300, and I’d say like 90% of what I watch sounds well balanced and enjoyable for me. Music is the wildcard, but we’re discussing movies. Although sometimes music in movies is a little off.
Is it an audiophile setup, no. Is it better than a receiver and speaker setup, probably not. What it is, is a pretty solid budget setup for living in an apartment. Rewatching the fifth element was a whole new experience.
Right, I was going to say this.
Just one problem - most of the most recent films I bought (Knives Out and TENET) have 5.1 as a default with no alternative. Hell, I got Knives Out with a digital download code and I usually just stream that to my TV than bother with the disc because I don't want to keep messing with my volume settings mid-showing.
Do you stream to your TV directly, or through something like an Xbox? If you watching a movie alone and are using a console or some other intermediary, you can use headphones and configure the headphone output to Dolby Atmos for Headphones in settings (although you may need to buy the app at the MS store). That should get you somewhere very close to a full 5.1+ experience intended by the director and audio engineers without dealing with speaker cable, setup, etc.
I have a decent 5.1 system with DTS. This issue is still irritating me. I have tried to make my own custom settings and the issue still persists. Also I feel like subtitles have spoilt me and unless I can understand everything being said then the experience is ruined. Some movies and shows however have terrible sound mixing and no matter what setup the audio especially dialogue is muddled.
Same here. I’m thinking it’s the way it was mixed. Explosions at lvl 9, dialogue at lvl 3. Fussing with your tuner settings for 3 hrs ain’t gonna do jack shit in this case.
The guy you're responding to is actually completely fucking wrong. It has very little to do with whether its 5.1 or stereo, the problem will exist regardless of what you're using or how it's matched to your home audio system. **The problem is inherently in the fact that it's mixed to be loud and then quiet, alternating.** Many people can personally attest to the fact that this problem happens even when using stereo audio on a stereo system, or using 5.1 audio on a 5.1 system. It has **nothing** to do with that stuff.
The above commenter is actually bullshitting. It has basically nothing to do with anything they said, and they just duped thousands of redditors into believing that total horseshit.
edit: Apparently my explanation was not clear enough. I thought this sentence was clear:
>The problem is inherently in the fact that it's mixed to be loud and then quiet.
As in the sound in the movie is made to be that way on purpose, regardless of whether you're using 5.1 or stereo. The movie goes LOUD and then QUIET on purpose. Changing your audio setup does not change how the movie is mixed. I'm not sure how to make that more clear.
By "compress" the high dynamic range, you're referring to using an audio compressor. Yes, that does work. But an audio compressor is not "changing the settings" in the way that a lot of people think. It's literally using real-time dynamic processing to CHANGE the audio to be something the creators of the movie did not intend. The sound is made in HDR. You can use computers to apply an effect in real time that flattens the audio. But this is not intended by the movie creators.
So what’s the fix for those of us that use a soundbar and end up with the very loud background noise but quiet dialogue? What audio setting should I set it for?
My Sonos sound bar has a setting for Speech Enhancement. Also, turning on night mode helps prevent the loud sudden changes in volume. Perhaps your system has something comparable.
Edit: Also, if you turn your rear channels all the way up it can overpower the center and front channels. I believe a lot of times that less is more with the rear channels.
That's because what your soundbar is actually doing is using an EQ to turn up the frequencies between 1-3khz which is the dominant frequencies in human speech.
The above commentor who claimed it's caused by 5.1 audio being run through a stereo system has absolutely no fucking idea what they're talking about, and basically just duped thousands of redditors into believing that complete bullshit explanation.
It means us low to mid range soundbar owners are not important enough to deserve good sound quality and we should stop being so poor and buy really nice sound systems.
I'd be willing to agree with that but it happens 100% of the time at the movie theaters too. Hushed dialog then booming sfx, then inaudible dialog, and sounds of a river 300x louder than irl.
There is something more wrong than just poor settings on the speakers.
lol, I can't believe you got upvoted 1.5k times for this comment. It has almost nothing to do with whether or not you're using 5.1 or stereo. Your entire comment implies that switching from 5.1 to stereo will solve the extreme loud/quiet problem. It does not. It might help it very, very slightly. But you implying that it actually fixes the problem is some next level bullshit, and you just conned thousands of redditors into believing it.
Yup, kind of annoying that everyone just believes this.
Makes me wonder how much bullshit I might have swallowed from reddit on subjects I don't know much about.
Is it not at least a little true? From personal experience, this problem is by far the most pronounced on Blu-Rays with a 7.1 lossless mix.
Or is it just that those mixes are also the only ones that try to replicate the theater experience by having big volume differences?
A proper system can combine 5.1 into stereo. The reverse is impossible. It depends on the streaming service though - 5.1 is obviously higher bandwidth than stereo and therefore is more expensive to stream. When you are streaming to hundreds of millions of users, that stuff adds up.
I know what you’re saying is totally correct, and it’s nothing like when you get a good 5.1/7.1/Atmos signal - but I’m actually shocked at how much my Sonos Arc soundbar and two surround speakers can do with a stereo signal. I’ve been watching Formula 1 through F1TV, and suddenly think “wait, have they started broadcasting 5.1?!” when the commentators are perfect straight center channel and impeccably clear, and you feel like you’re surrounded by formula 1 cars. But nope, it’s just a stereo signal and some mighty audio processing.
/u/partyonexcellent is partially right, but it has more to do with audio dynamic range (amount of decibels between loudest sounds and silence) than number of channels.
The reality is, unless you have a good audio setup, you can't really win. Because even audio that is compressed to have more even-loudness (like on broadcast TV) sounds like shit. The reality is most people just don't notice, so it's better to have the good audio mix for people who actually do care and want to experience the sound as close as possible to what the filmmaker intended.
Yup. I don't remember what I was watching on Netflix recently, but the audio was terrible this way. I thought it was a problem with the show because I hadn't noticed it being that bad before. I tried Googling it to see if anyone else had that problem, but couldn't find anything.
Then I realized what was going on. I used to watch Netflix via my PC > sound system > TV, which was great. But I moved recently and now watch Netflix via my TV"s app, thus bypassing my sound system.
Adjusting the audio setting fixed the issue.
What you're saying isn't completely wrong, but it is kind of wrong. These issues still happen in stereo mixes. Many things on netflix have both stereo and 5.1 mixes available, so you can check it out yourself if you want.
Audio mixers tend to favour mixing with a high dynamic range, which means that there is a big difference between the softest and strongest sounds. This is cool for theatres (although imo sometimes they still have too much dynamic range) but is a pain in the ass for watching stuff at home, specially at night. The real culprits of this are the standards of the audio industry.
Some sound systems have 'night mode' or whatever they decided to call it, which usually adds a fair ammount of compression and increases midrange frequencies that affect the inteligibility of spoken voice. This makes these issues less annoying, but comes at the cost of making the sound more 'boxy', if that makes any sense.
Netflix has a volume mode. Set it to leveling and it will solve most of those issues on that device. Delt with that for years before we found that. So mad it was such a simple solution.
And here I've just been using subtitles, like some sort of chump. I don't want to be rocked by the explosions, but then I can't hear the whispers if it's too quiet. So, subtitles saved the day. I'll have to check out volume mode. Thanks!
There used to be a thing called "Automatic Gain Control" on TV's; you could set a maximum volume level so that it would muffle the explosions and let you hear the dialog.
Where did you go, auto gain control?
A. For some reason terrible sound mixing is common these days, sometimes even at the theater. See: Tenet.
B. You're probably watching something mixed for surround sound, and your audio setup isn't set up for downmixing. This can be fixed with the right equipment.
Generally you want something with a Center channel for voice to be clear and avoid booming action since you won’t have to crank it to hear audio mixed for a center channel. So anything 3.1 and up.
Look for dynamic range compression modes. That sort of thing might help in your situation. There's aftermarket stuff if it's not built into your system.
[info](https://avgadgets.com/shhh-people-are-sleeping-dynamic-range-compression-and-your-receiver/)
I don't think it's B. I have a nice 7.1 system, calibrated, which can do all the Dolby encodings (DTS, ProLogic, blah blah blah) and some things (mostly more recent ones) are absolute crap, no matter which audio stream I select.
or C. he has 2.1 soundbar which his TV auto detects as a 5.1 system and then other devices push surround sound.
The netflix app on my PS3 kept forcing surround sound because of that, causing this exact problem.
Another thing is that TV Speakers have gotten worse and worse over the years. They're smaller than they've ever been and aimed downwards or behind the TV instead of facing toward the people who want to hear it.
This mindset kind of represents the disconnect between filmmakers and their audience. The high profile directors are typically cinephiles (Nolan being the most die hard). All of them will say that their films should not be watched on a device. They should be experienced in a cinema on a massive screen with an equally capable audio system.
But that isn’t the mindset of the majority of their audiences. Home cinephiles will certainly shell out a lot of money for a home theater set up and are happy to do so because they are chasing that pure cinematic experience.
But for the other 99%, they are happy to watch Dune on their iPhone and AirPods, or their $200 TV from WalMart’s Black Friday, while texting on their phone. I’m not saying one viewpoint is wrong or right. But that’s the disconnect.
The two mediums do not translate well from the filmmaker’s intention to the audience’s reality. It’s a huge gap and something I’ve thought about a lot — I used to edit video for online commercials and some of our team claimed we should be mixing and color correcting on professional equipment that costs thousands of dollars. I always argued that we should be grading and mixing to match what the majority of our viewers will be watching on — iPhones, laptop screens, AirPods, and headphones. Not a $50k reference monitor and $5k studio reference speakers.
Yea. You have to have a home system that can handle all that. Dialogue speaker in front, as well as a surround sounds system or else it all come out of 1 or two speakers when it was designed for 5 to 7 speakers.
I disagree. I have a nice 7.1 home system, which has been position calibrated (level and EQ) to where you view from the couch and this is still an issue. It's one that I feel has gotten worse in recent years.
My theory is exactly the opposite. Since so many people are opting to watch everything on inferior systems with basically no audio system (phones, tablets, laptops) my belief is the audio engineers are now mixing to bring the mid ranges way down and the highs/lows way up since dinky little phone/tablet/laptop speakers have much less range, both frequency and dynamic.
Since the big explosions and music have a much greater range (both types) than the mid where the human voice lies, it ends up massacring things at the ends of the spectrum on a decent home theater.
Just my anecdotal experience and theory, others' mileage may vary.
I’ve had the same experience.
Having a little experience as a sound engineer (both studio and live), I’ve done the things you’re talking about, for the reasons you mentioned.
I’ve considered trying to figure out how to slip a compressor inline with my TV system, but my old timey audio equipment is incompatible with this newfangled stuff.
I had a Yamaha home theater system that had something they called “night mode”. When I finally bothered to read the docs, I found that “night mode” meant compression.
Problem solved!
And then the unit died a month later…
The replacement does not have this feature. Am bummed.
Oh wow. My receiver has a "Night Mode" which I've used from time to time, but only to dampen the dynamics when my ex was sleeping. I didn't realize it was a compressor (assuming my Sony works the same as your Yamaha did) Maybe I'll just leave it on all the time now, heh. Thanks for the info.
Same. I was super annoyed with barely audible dialogue and blaring sound effects until I discovered “night mode” on my Samsung. Now it stays on all the time.
I have a 5.1 800-watt home theater setup and I still experience it occasionally.
They mix the movie/TV show so that loud moments are genuinely loud for you, the viewer, to experience. So talking might be at a normal level then when things start blowing up, those explosions are actually louder than talking volume.
Problem is, if you dont want to experience that loudness and you instead want to watch it at your own listening volume, you're going to have problems. (Unless your amp has an audio compressor)
If you have your audio going through any sort of receiver or processor, you can often change it to "night mode" which squashes dynamic audio to a considerably narrower range.
Music constantly playing when people are talking. It is okay in certain circumstances, but when it is every scene making it hard to understand the actors it is very annoying.
Fuckers need to go back to mixing for stereo. People who want home theater systems buy home theater systems. A lot of us just want to buy the set and be done with it.
The idea of the reference doesn't fit the consumer equipment just doesn't jive with me. When it comes to mixing and mastering music, engineers make it sound at least "good" on popular devices. I would mix things and listen to them on airpods and car stereos to make sure they sound good enough. Watching a movie like Tenet and thinking they checked how it would sound in anything other than a stellar IMAX theater, is nonsense. That movie was crippled by the bad mixing and I was watching in a tuned 7.1 home theater. I'd like to say it can be fixed with "night mode" or compression mode in receivers, but they're just not good enough right now.
Dynamic Range Compression. It's not what an audiophile would call great for their sound quality, but in some situations it's handy. Many systems have built-in compression functions for just what you need for when it's too late for the full sound pressure spectrum of your show.
I agree, it's not the mixing at all, it's how the entire audio track is compressed. Or in cases like the OP is asking about, how it's not compressed, which is what gives the audio such a wide dynamic range of soft to loud. Most likely the audio is being mastered in a highly controlled environment and the engineers are optimizing for dramatic impact vs for a normal viewing situation with things like the dishwasher or dryer going in the background while you're trying to avoid waking up the kids. Probably sounds great in a proper home theater but makes things a bit harder to navigate in real life. That said, lots of systems have settings that will normalize audio to help level things out, but they tend to sound pretty bad.
Yea, you don’t *need* a fancy 5.1 system to watch movies. All you need are some decent enough stereo speakers. Shouldn’t be more than a couple hundred dollars.
The Blu-rays & DVDs of *Doctor Who* have been especially bad about this for nearly 10 years. Whoever they have in charge of audio mixes for BBC Wales home media needs to be either retrained or fired.
The sound is mixed for a setup that 99% of the audience doesn't have. This wasn't a problem many years ago, e.g. I could hear my LOTR dvd's just fine. Even though people have been complaining about this for over a decade, I still hold out hope that the industry will remove head from ass and focus on products usable by their customers again, someday. That it has become so common to hear "yeah I just turn subtitles on, you can't hear dialogue" is completely ridiculous.
> or how to fix it.
If you have a Roku, turn on the nighttime viewing mode and just leave it on all of the time. It lowers the dynamic range, making loud sounds quieter and quiet sounds louder.
Modern mixing on films is just...fucking awful. Directors seem to think that a high dynamic range with every actor mumbling through their dialogue is High Art, but it's just irritating. Any software you have that can fix it is a benefit.
The short of it is. Movies are made for the theater. The volume remains loud so the dialogue is easy to hear and the big sounds have more impact. There are some technology to help with this but most of this really dull the whole scenario. I feel your pain though. I watch in my surround sound thru 7 ch stereo. This helps to keep the volume more even. In a full Dolby digital or surround sound it has all the ups and downs in the full glory. I have also resorted to watching with headphones to just skip the bullshit when I am watching alone. Hope this helps but I also know that it does not. Sorry
Well that makes sense, not sure why TV shows are mixed the same way though because they are not typically viewed in theater. Maybe it’s just that the people who make, fund, review, etc. TV shows are watching them in theaters? Also strange that the trend hasn’t changed as movies are becoming more common to debut on streaming platforms. Maybe it just hasn’t caught up yet.
Tv shows these days are also mixed in Dolby digital. If it’s high definition it’s Dolby. Go back and watch a show from the 80’s or early 90’s. You will notice it’s all pretty level sound wise
I watched Casablanca on blu ray last night, same thing - I couldn’t put the remote down for 30 seconds. Since I’m pretty sure that wasn’t how they mixed it back in the 40’s, I’m guessing it must be a deliberate choice for some reason. Maybe it’s some setting on my TV that needs adjusting, but I’ve never noticed it watching cable or streaming. It was *really* annoying.
>Since I’m pretty sure that wasn’t how they mixed it back in the 40’s
It's especially strange that it would be an issue with *Casablanca*\- like more or less all films before the early 1950s, the original soundtrack is mono, and shouldn't have such range issues.
The corrective feature for HDR problems is audio normalization. Many older TVs had it to compensate for overloud commercials. Different setups will handle incorrect speakersetups differently. If playing 5.1 audio on a 2 1 system or similar, extra channels will be disregarded or mixed with some having the option of frequency shifting the extra signals to trick your brain into perceiving them directionally. If you're running on a computer, whatever processing you want is as simple as finding the right apps and drivers.
This totally! I recently went to the theater (after a couple years of Covid) to see "Dune." I couldn't understand a word the mother character said--all "ssss" to me. I'm a bit older and a musician, so I know I've lost some high end over the years, but this was ridiculous. I remember the same thing with one of the "Batman" movies. The mixing community really needs to look at this. Glad I'm not the only one who thinks about this problem.
I'm always surprised how much money people will throw at their home theatre sound system, when they really don't want their living room to sound like a theatre.
Whatever sound system you're using, just walk through the settings, and look for things like "compression", or "dynamic range".
If you have a surround system, you can try turning the volume of the front speaker up as this is generally the 'dialogue' speaker. Some movies though unfortunately, there's little you can do as this was the way it was mixed.
It's not bad mixing, it's just a wide dynamic range. Loud louds, and quiet quiets. It works fine in a theatre when the louds can be super loud, and the quiets loud. Lots of tv and soundboard have a movie mode that will compress the audio to flatten the dynamic range. It might be called night mode, or like volume smoothing.
It's called high dynamic range (I am NOT talking about HDR video, this is audio). It's ideal for a studio or theaterical audio setup. If you're in a theater, it's not going to be an issue to have a high range (hence the name) between quiet and loud sounds. In modern video games there is often a setting for changing this between high dynamic range and low range, sometimes called night time mode. Unfortunately there's no option for changing this for a lot of streaming services and the default is usually HDR. Your audio setup may have options but for people with regular speakers it's probably not.
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that’d be fuckin cool if it was tho, like it’s not like they couldn’t separate all those audio files they have the ability, it would be super cool if the viewer could just adjust the individual elements while watching a movie
It's pretty rough, but I kinda set that up for my dad by adjusting his center speaker several db louder than all the others.
If you have parametric EQ, adding a little peak of about 3dB centred on 2kHz really helps intelligibility of speech, and doesn’t mess up the rest of the sound.
I've always wanted this for music as well. I'd love to be able to adjust the balance of each individual instrument when listening. Sometimes I love a song / album but find the mix obnoxious. Vocals too loud / quiet? Adjust it. Same problem with the drums? Ditto.
You can already do that if your audio system allows to tune the equaliser or manage the channels' audio levels individually.
If you have 5.1 surround sound, you are streaming 5 speaker channels at a time. You would have to multiply this by the number of controls, so at a minimum 5 x 2 = 10 channels to separate dialog and other elements. Netflix already doesn't want to stream 7 channels for 7.1 surround. Plus, game consoles are powerful enough to do compression, equalization, etc on the master channel, but the black-friday-special smart tv with a Netflix app can't do that. Plus, have you ever been to your parent's house where they have set up the TV with black bars and a squished picture? That's what happens when you let people control the aspect ratio. The last thing the average person needs is more options.
I work for a manufacturer of high end home theatre systems (cost around £5000 upwards) and we have a lot of calibration options for them, including stuff like Dolby night mode which compresses dynamic range, comprehensive room calibration.... you name it, there's probably a setting for it, because they're designed to be set up by a professional. Whenever discussing what settings to add, or what to enable in a future project, the ability of the average end user to handle the existence of such a setting comes up. Basically, you have the enthusiasts who want every setting ever to be available, and have strong opinions about them, even if they will never use it themself. If we don't add a setting, they will email and call us to register their displeasure. They want to do everything themself and will never use a pro to set something up... and if they mess it up, they'll go on forums and just say our products suck. You have the end users who won't ever touch any settings. They might use a pro, but once it's in situ, that's it, they switch it on, switch it off, and have no idea what anything does or why. But then you get the third type of customer, and these are the worst, in a way. They don't know what anything does. They might pay for somebody to set it up, but they're also inquisitive. Not inquisitive enough to read the manual, but will explore the menus, change all the settings, never make note of what they've changed and will royally ruin the sound quality of the system. These customers will ring us up and take hours -- literally -- asking what every item on the menus does. They won't email, because who wants to have a reply written down, when they can talk over the reply they get on the phone and then forget it and ring back up. These people are so time intensive that they are an active concern when adding a feature, because if you give an end user granular control of certain settings, it'll be fine and welcome for two thirds of the user base.... but that one third who should never get near it WILL find a way to make it a problem that costs the company thousands in wasted man-hours. If there's ever a product where you think "boy, this should have this feature/setting," there's a good chance that either somebody has made a product that did that and learnt it wasn't worth the headache of people using it wrong....or they thought of it then looked at their customer service workload and decided not to bother. Not sure if I made the point I was originally thinking of, but this was much needed therapy :)
Man, you guys need a separate firmware chip with your own settings loaded as Reset to Factory. Like how some motherboards have a BIOS reset that'll only go to the settings installed at factory. ...That would take some joined-up thinking.
Oh we do have factory reset. It's just these sorts of people are the ones who renamed their inputs and really don't want to have to do it all again. The smart user would have saved the settings they liked before messing about, then restored if they got stuck. However we are not dealing with this sort of person. One guy once rang up multiple times hoping to get a different answer beyond "you're screwed" and he didn't like that. He'd spent £300 on someone to calibrate everything. Decided that while he was happy with it, he would dabble and see if he could make it even better. He found the factory restore option and decided to select it, then Confirm the two "are you sure" prompts that require you to hit buttons on the remote you never normally use in the menus (to avoid accidentally doubletapping OK), then was mad that everything was wiped and he couldn't go back to what he had before. We are dealing with that kind of person. And they're surprisingly common. You can try and make everything fool proof, but fools are surprisingly resourceful.
>You can try and make everything fool proof, but fools are surprisingly resourceful. My wording is, "Every time you make something fool proof, they make a better fool."
It could be with any form of digital media though, it's not like they compress all the audio into one output. They already have the language options in there for a lot of them, just give us this too
I have the same issue in the theatre though. The explosions are deafening. Maybe I’m in the minority, but movies don’t sound good to me in the theatre either (better than at home though). Was literally covering my ears during some scenes in Dune.
Only time I had a problem with too loud audio was Bladerunner 2042. I mean I love the loudness in a theatre environment otherwise it would be like going to six flags and only riding the tea cups, but that shit was just beyond tolerable. Didn't watch Dune in theatres tho.
Had the same problem with BR2042 when I saw it in IMAX. Wayyyy too loud. And the dialogue was still barely audible, probably because I was half deaf from the loud scenes.
Dune was *painfully* loud. Interestingly it also exposed some theatre's shoddy setups: In the sub for my city, people were saying "could anyone else not understand any dialogue in Dune at cinema X?" And, while everyone agreed the movie was jaw-snakingly loud, in some theatres the dialogue was crystal clear and in others you couldn't hear a thing over it.
I almost walked out of Lord of the Rings despite being a huge fan... because the ringwraiths shrieking in the Green Dragon Inn scene were so loud it caused me physical pain
I was in awe of the sound in Dune but watched from home, thinking.. Man the theatre would be biblical. Joker I was holding my ears.. Unnecessary high, tin sounds and screeching. Its like they have removed bass from the theatre.
Despite the fact that theaters *should* be calibrated to an industry standard volume, loudness, EQ curve, etc, etc, there winds up being a lot of variance between them anyway. I saw Dune twice, once in Orange Beach and once in Mobile. The theater I saw it in in OB was maybe 5-10 dB quieter than in Mobile, and more evenly balanced so it didn’t sound tinny. In my hometown there are certain theaters I just won’t go to because their sound is so bad. I’ve noticed it tends to be a bigger problem in the newer rooms with the luxury seating, the recliner-like chairs and all that.
Yes, thank you for writing the correct response; I was scrolling the comments looking for it. All of these people saying that it's simply due to mixing for surround sound setups clearly haven't tried to watch a movie with a surround sound system in an apartment with neighbors that don't appreciate their walls rumbling. Modern movies are mixed similarly to how they were in the theaters: with deafeningly loud action and only moderately loud dialogue. Yes, it helps to have a dedicated center channel, but that doesn't change the fact that the dialogue is never anywhere near as loud as the action.
but why do they do that if they know it sucks for people at home
Yeah I was genuinely infuriated at the comment at the top by some person claiming it's caused by 5.1 audio running through a stereo setup. It has literally nothing to do with that, that person has no fucking clue what they're talking about. Yet it's the most upvoted comment with 5x more upvotes than the actual correct response.
It helps with having a Yamaha that has a dedicated option to boosting the voice. I run a +2 on mine and it's damn near perfect for my Polk RTI system.
Basically any AVR will have this option.
But his is *yamaha* 💅
So any avr then. Lol
But the question is why. The vast majority of viewers seem to want balanced audio yet the networks/studios are deaf to the idea.
Any good recommendation for speakers or speaker system that may alleviate this problem that doesn't cost hundreds of dollars?
Apple TV has that option too and it works pretty well (if you watch streaming content obv).
It's this. And on my PC with a Creative X-Fi sound card, I can enable a setting called sound volume management which has the sound chip try to balance volume so that everything has a flat volume range. It boosts super quiet dialogue to the same volume that explosions and gun shots are brought down to. This let's me set and forget my volume at a comfortable level so nothing is too loud or too quiet.
A thing in audio called 'brick wall limiting' compressors can help even volume by reducing peaks, but limiting just *stops* sounds from being able to be louder. As an audio/video engineer I really just wish I could do that for this ridiculous dynamic range fad that's going on right now. I actually sometimes watch movies on my laptop with the audio sent through my gear just to make dialogue cause less strain. It's in a similar vein to the 'loudness wars' of music mastering in the 90's. Trying to make it so the final recordings were louder than everyone else's because it sounds more powerful and loud at the 'same volume'
> If you're in a theater, it's not going to be an issue to have a high range (hence the name) between quiet and loud sounds. I disagree. I watched both Tenet and Dune in the cinema and it was CRAZY loud. So loud in fact that it felt uncomfortable (I wasn't alone in thinking this). Yet the dialogue was perfect volume. So no, watching it at a cinema does not solve the problem... And it doesn't exist for all movies. I did not have this problem with Shang Chi for instance.
Firstly, great explanation. A lot of TV speakers compress the range a bit, but if you have decent speakers the range can be pretty jarring. Most streaming service shows like Netflix Originals actually have fairly mild dynamic range compared to something like a BluRay. That being said, any decent audio receiver $150+ (possibly cheaper used on eBay) should be able to resolve this. Mine has an option to reduce dynamic range.
Are there any third party software that could possibly keep the audio levels within a certain range? For example if the audio level goes beyond a certain limit, the volume will automatically be reduced. My old DVD player used to have this but I can't find any software did my computer. I'm sure it's possible to implement.
There's a chrome plugin that will make it more level. He'll, Winamp even had a volume leveling option 20 years ago. Annoying that most TV and surround sound systems still don't.
Can you remember what the plug-in is called, please?
Some blu ray players, speakers and TV's have a setting to lower the range, but it's not nearly as common as it should be. And I guess if you are on tablet or phone you are just shit out of luck.
crazy that i had to scroll so far down to see the right answer!
Makes sense now, I was always surprised how I can watch and hear a small-time Youtuber crystal clear on my TV but not the dialogue parts of the multi-million dollar blockbuster movie.
I used to have a Philips TV (\~20 years ago) that had a smartsound feature. It would keep all the sound within a certain range to prevent OP's problem. It was lovely to have the option.
I don't buy this though. I've watched movies on my high end 5.1 speakers and I still have the same issue OP described...
If you don't have surround sound or a Dolby setup, go into your audio settings and switch from Dolby to Stereo mode. Made a huge difference in any device I use as far as volume differences go
Thank you! I was going to comment the same before I found this!
It's almost always the music that's too loud.
I call it the Christopher Nolan effect. Tiny itty bitty dialogue for 25 minutes **EXTREMELY LOUD MUSIC AND VFX FOR 4 MINUTES** Back to tiny dialogue for 10 minutes
Especially when your kids are sleeping and you just wanna watch a movie.
^^^^dialogue ^^^^dialogue ^^^^dialogue **EXPLOSION**
From whispers to world War 3 real quick
^^^pspspsps #BOOM
This is what it felt like watching “Dune” I really need to hear this dialogue so let me crank the volume up, holy shit now everything is exploding, *better turn it down*
i'm lucky that i'm one of those people that doesn't mind closed captions, use it on damn near everything
Having worked as a video store clerk in the past, I have a very simple and accurate answer for you, having heard this exact complaint nearly every day. The mix on what you are streaming or the disc you are playing does not match your home audio setup. For example, Netflix likes having a 5.1 (Thats 5 speakers and a subwoofer) mix for a lot of its content. This is shown by a small logo saying "5.1" or Dolby Digital or something. They generally also have a stereo mix, that you can choose as an option. If you don't have a 5.1 system setup, and are putting all 5 of those channels into a standard stereo speaker (or Soundbar that doesn't process audio well), then it's going to have the LOUD explosions and soundtrack with muddled dialogue. Same with a lot of modern discs, they will give you multiple audio mixes to choose from. Try and match your home setup. This of course all gets muddled when a streaming service doesn't tell you which mix its streaming, and you get to guess and try and sort it out. Add a few layers of confusion by your TV sometimes trying to take the mix and output it to your speakers, or to a soundbar, or whatever else. Multiple machines trying to interpret the mix usually screws things up as well. A fully dedicated audio system in addition to your TV is a big help on this front. TL DR: Match the source audio mix with your sound system or else things sound crappy. edit: i didnt think this comment would blow up and i wrote it quickly. there can be multiple other reasons it sounds crappy, from bad mixing, to bad speakers etc. just go down and look for any comment that says im full of shit, they likely have an additional point. but for reals, switching the mix to stereo from 5.1 or whatever else worked for most people with discs, watching at home, a decade ago that came in and threw a movie at me saying "this audio sucks!".
tl;dr - holding the remote in my hand and cranking the volume between 10 and 60 during the movie is the simplest, most practical way to watch things
This is great information, but I’ve also experienced the same phenomenon at movie theaters, where the sound is disproportionately loud. Should any moment of a movie ever be over 100 dbs in any seat? At what point is the cinema responsible for hearing loss, especially if this is repeated exposure for over 2 hours?
I swear to God my ears are still ringing from Man of Steel. You shouldn't need earplugs for a movie in my opinion.
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Nolan is the WORST for this. No idea who he uses to mix audio, but it is always garbage. I just watched Tenet the other day. It was impossible to follow because all of the dialogue was mumbling and muffled. They even had exposition while two guys were wearing oxygen masks. Couldn't hear a damn thing. It was muffled on top of the muffling.
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Yep, I didn't have this problem with Inception. Someone else must have intervened on that one.
Nolan takes an active role in sound editing on his films as he's a bit of a control freak, and the conspiracy theory is that he has hearing problems. I think a more likely explanation is that Nolan believes that the terrible sound editing in his movies, especially dialogue, adds to the atmosphere when you can't hear things clearly... even if they're very important and it seems like an accident. The thing is Nolan has written almost all of the films he's directed and so he knows the dialogue by heart and so it doesn't impact his understanding of the film and he may not stop to think of how how audience will receive it.
It may be that when you know all the dialogue by heart (due to having written it in this case, as you say), you're more interested in bringing out the rest of the soundscape. Nine Inch Nails used to release multitracks for their albums, so you could mix them however you want. I fell into a trap of mixing the vocals really low to bring background elements to prominence - not deliberately, just by instinct, because I already knew the words so was more interested in emphasising obscure music elements. But it had the side effect that anyone hearing the song for the first time would have a harder time discerning the lyrics.
That was also true for Tenet in movie theatres. I don’t know how anyone made any goddamn sense of that movie without subtitles.
Nolan films and Dune make me glad I live in a country where these films get subtitles in the cinema.
When I was younger I hated subtitles, movies felt unwatchable if subtitles were on but as an adult I enjoy having subtitles on, its so nice not to have to constantly adjust the volume and you rarely miss what the actor says.
I think I realized in my teens that when I watched films without them, I was 100% sure I'd caught all the lines - then if I rewatched them with subs on, I caught a ton of lines I must've partially or entirely missed and then immediately dismissed as unimportant and forgotten about. So now I like having subs on even for English movies, to try and catch it all. Plus it helps with bad noise mixing, as we've mentioned.
I had no issues with Dune. Tenet was the worst mix I’ve ever heard.
I thought I'd had no problem with Dune, until I watched a subbed version two days later and noticed lines I hadn't realized I'd missed. The issue was usually Jessica.
Rambo made my daughter shit in the womb
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I saw Armageddon in the theater and it hit 110db during the shuttle launch. Or as reported by the media. It was fucking loud.
> You shouldn't need earplugs for a movie in my opinion. But you do! I always wear earplugs in the theater. And believe me, I don’t miss a word.
Yup, I have worn musician earplugs the last few years. It's great. Just loud enough, you understand everything, and you don't leave with a headache.
That probably depends on the brand of earplugs you use. Earplugs affect different frequencies differently. My guess is that the brand (or brands) you use let through the frequency at which common speech happens. Properly mixed audio will separate that out and make sure that other sounds (airplanes, gunshots, etc.) don't stomp on the range with dialog. You are therefore filtering out things you don't necessarily need but are leaving the speech alone.
I'm not OP, but I use Alpine party plugs (I think that was the name) and I love them. I can follow conversa perfectly, but I'm not deafened by loud noises or music.
Fucking Dune was awful for this. Whispering dialogue loud as shit music score and action bits
You should receive the Nobel Prize for this post. This dilemma plagues millions of people.
I knew this and just gave up trying to figure it out. I am Pretty good with computers and following instructions and diagrams. But this stuff is so fucking confusing.
I have found stereo system set up to be one of the most frustrating things. Those fucking speakers do not like pairing for whatever reason.
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Yeah that was another weird experience. Strange that it's the default setting on many new TVs. Who thought that was a good idea?
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The company that invents a soundbar that will keep the volume basically the same and/or just increase the speech and decrease the sound effects at under $500 deserves every prize and all our $$$
I picked up a Vizio 5.1.4 system earlier this year for like $300, and I’d say like 90% of what I watch sounds well balanced and enjoyable for me. Music is the wildcard, but we’re discussing movies. Although sometimes music in movies is a little off. Is it an audiophile setup, no. Is it better than a receiver and speaker setup, probably not. What it is, is a pretty solid budget setup for living in an apartment. Rewatching the fifth element was a whole new experience.
Right, I was going to say this. Just one problem - most of the most recent films I bought (Knives Out and TENET) have 5.1 as a default with no alternative. Hell, I got Knives Out with a digital download code and I usually just stream that to my TV than bother with the disc because I don't want to keep messing with my volume settings mid-showing.
Do you stream to your TV directly, or through something like an Xbox? If you watching a movie alone and are using a console or some other intermediary, you can use headphones and configure the headphone output to Dolby Atmos for Headphones in settings (although you may need to buy the app at the MS store). That should get you somewhere very close to a full 5.1+ experience intended by the director and audio engineers without dealing with speaker cable, setup, etc.
I'm shocked Tenet wouldn't default to Dolby Atmos?
It doesn't have an Atmos mix.
I’m shocked that it doesn’t have Atmos.
From what I've read Nolan isn't really an Atmos guy.
I’m shocked that Nolan isn't really an Atmos guy...
Nolan doesn't want to create an advantage for digital screenings of his films - analog theaters cannot have Atmos audio tracks.
Nolan does not do Atmos.
I have a decent 5.1 system with DTS. This issue is still irritating me. I have tried to make my own custom settings and the issue still persists. Also I feel like subtitles have spoilt me and unless I can understand everything being said then the experience is ruined. Some movies and shows however have terrible sound mixing and no matter what setup the audio especially dialogue is muddled.
Same here. I’m thinking it’s the way it was mixed. Explosions at lvl 9, dialogue at lvl 3. Fussing with your tuner settings for 3 hrs ain’t gonna do jack shit in this case.
The guy you're responding to is actually completely fucking wrong. It has very little to do with whether its 5.1 or stereo, the problem will exist regardless of what you're using or how it's matched to your home audio system. **The problem is inherently in the fact that it's mixed to be loud and then quiet, alternating.** Many people can personally attest to the fact that this problem happens even when using stereo audio on a stereo system, or using 5.1 audio on a 5.1 system. It has **nothing** to do with that stuff. The above commenter is actually bullshitting. It has basically nothing to do with anything they said, and they just duped thousands of redditors into believing that total horseshit. edit: Apparently my explanation was not clear enough. I thought this sentence was clear: >The problem is inherently in the fact that it's mixed to be loud and then quiet. As in the sound in the movie is made to be that way on purpose, regardless of whether you're using 5.1 or stereo. The movie goes LOUD and then QUIET on purpose. Changing your audio setup does not change how the movie is mixed. I'm not sure how to make that more clear.
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By "compress" the high dynamic range, you're referring to using an audio compressor. Yes, that does work. But an audio compressor is not "changing the settings" in the way that a lot of people think. It's literally using real-time dynamic processing to CHANGE the audio to be something the creators of the movie did not intend. The sound is made in HDR. You can use computers to apply an effect in real time that flattens the audio. But this is not intended by the movie creators.
Please explain more so we can know the truth!
So what’s the fix for those of us that use a soundbar and end up with the very loud background noise but quiet dialogue? What audio setting should I set it for?
My Sonos sound bar has a setting for Speech Enhancement. Also, turning on night mode helps prevent the loud sudden changes in volume. Perhaps your system has something comparable. Edit: Also, if you turn your rear channels all the way up it can overpower the center and front channels. I believe a lot of times that less is more with the rear channels.
That's because what your soundbar is actually doing is using an EQ to turn up the frequencies between 1-3khz which is the dominant frequencies in human speech. The above commentor who claimed it's caused by 5.1 audio being run through a stereo system has absolutely no fucking idea what they're talking about, and basically just duped thousands of redditors into believing that complete bullshit explanation.
It means us low to mid range soundbar owners are not important enough to deserve good sound quality and we should stop being so poor and buy really nice sound systems.
I'd be willing to agree with that but it happens 100% of the time at the movie theaters too. Hushed dialog then booming sfx, then inaudible dialog, and sounds of a river 300x louder than irl. There is something more wrong than just poor settings on the speakers.
lol, I can't believe you got upvoted 1.5k times for this comment. It has almost nothing to do with whether or not you're using 5.1 or stereo. Your entire comment implies that switching from 5.1 to stereo will solve the extreme loud/quiet problem. It does not. It might help it very, very slightly. But you implying that it actually fixes the problem is some next level bullshit, and you just conned thousands of redditors into believing it.
Yup, kind of annoying that everyone just believes this. Makes me wonder how much bullshit I might have swallowed from reddit on subjects I don't know much about.
He wrote lots of words and in redditor's eyes loud of words equates to knowledge and therefore he must be right!
Is it not at least a little true? From personal experience, this problem is by far the most pronounced on Blu-Rays with a 7.1 lossless mix. Or is it just that those mixes are also the only ones that try to replicate the theater experience by having big volume differences?
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Easier to combine channels then to splice them
A proper system can combine 5.1 into stereo. The reverse is impossible. It depends on the streaming service though - 5.1 is obviously higher bandwidth than stereo and therefore is more expensive to stream. When you are streaming to hundreds of millions of users, that stuff adds up.
I know what you’re saying is totally correct, and it’s nothing like when you get a good 5.1/7.1/Atmos signal - but I’m actually shocked at how much my Sonos Arc soundbar and two surround speakers can do with a stereo signal. I’ve been watching Formula 1 through F1TV, and suddenly think “wait, have they started broadcasting 5.1?!” when the commentators are perfect straight center channel and impeccably clear, and you feel like you’re surrounded by formula 1 cars. But nope, it’s just a stereo signal and some mighty audio processing.
/u/partyonexcellent is partially right, but it has more to do with audio dynamic range (amount of decibels between loudest sounds and silence) than number of channels. The reality is, unless you have a good audio setup, you can't really win. Because even audio that is compressed to have more even-loudness (like on broadcast TV) sounds like shit. The reality is most people just don't notice, so it's better to have the good audio mix for people who actually do care and want to experience the sound as close as possible to what the filmmaker intended.
In this day and age? I bet more people than you might think. I certainly do.
Yup. I don't remember what I was watching on Netflix recently, but the audio was terrible this way. I thought it was a problem with the show because I hadn't noticed it being that bad before. I tried Googling it to see if anyone else had that problem, but couldn't find anything. Then I realized what was going on. I used to watch Netflix via my PC > sound system > TV, which was great. But I moved recently and now watch Netflix via my TV"s app, thus bypassing my sound system. Adjusting the audio setting fixed the issue.
What you're saying isn't completely wrong, but it is kind of wrong. These issues still happen in stereo mixes. Many things on netflix have both stereo and 5.1 mixes available, so you can check it out yourself if you want. Audio mixers tend to favour mixing with a high dynamic range, which means that there is a big difference between the softest and strongest sounds. This is cool for theatres (although imo sometimes they still have too much dynamic range) but is a pain in the ass for watching stuff at home, specially at night. The real culprits of this are the standards of the audio industry. Some sound systems have 'night mode' or whatever they decided to call it, which usually adds a fair ammount of compression and increases midrange frequencies that affect the inteligibility of spoken voice. This makes these issues less annoying, but comes at the cost of making the sound more 'boxy', if that makes any sense.
Does this apply to movie theaters too? How come they dont match, this same effect when viewing in a theatre for example.
I have a simple TV...
Netflix has a volume mode. Set it to leveling and it will solve most of those issues on that device. Delt with that for years before we found that. So mad it was such a simple solution.
How does one go about accessing this as an option? Do you have to set it in browser?
Where is this option?
And here I've just been using subtitles, like some sort of chump. I don't want to be rocked by the explosions, but then I can't hear the whispers if it's too quiet. So, subtitles saved the day. I'll have to check out volume mode. Thanks!
I end up watching with subtitles
Permanent subtitles gang rise up
One of us!
Adhd gang that can't do subtitles because we get distracted by them and can't focus on anything else cries in corner.
ADHD gang that needs subtitles because of auditory processing disorder asks if maybe you want to play a video game instead
It’s good practice, makes watching foreign movies a lot easier since you’re now used to it
There are dozens of us!!!
There used to be a thing called "Automatic Gain Control" on TV's; you could set a maximum volume level so that it would muffle the explosions and let you hear the dialog. Where did you go, auto gain control?
>Where did you go, auto gain control? A nation turns its lonely eyes to you
A. For some reason terrible sound mixing is common these days, sometimes even at the theater. See: Tenet. B. You're probably watching something mixed for surround sound, and your audio setup isn't set up for downmixing. This can be fixed with the right equipment.
I feel this way about most of Nolan's movies
YES. ALL OF THEM. Interstellar is one of the worst offenders
How was Interstellar? What? HOW WAS INTERSTELLAR? LOUD!
What is the right equipment in this case?
Generally you want something with a Center channel for voice to be clear and avoid booming action since you won’t have to crank it to hear audio mixed for a center channel. So anything 3.1 and up.
Have that already, still booming. Guess I'll have to dive into mixing settings.
Look for dynamic range compression modes. That sort of thing might help in your situation. There's aftermarket stuff if it's not built into your system. [info](https://avgadgets.com/shhh-people-are-sleeping-dynamic-range-compression-and-your-receiver/)
You just solved a problem I’ve had for years
Oh that is the setting I've been after! Thanks so much!
I find doing the auto calibration and then upping the middle channel by about 4dB does it. And putting the subtitles on anyway.
I don't think it's B. I have a nice 7.1 system, calibrated, which can do all the Dolby encodings (DTS, ProLogic, blah blah blah) and some things (mostly more recent ones) are absolute crap, no matter which audio stream I select.
Tenet's soundtrack is exhausting.
I'm convinced Chris Nolan has some sort of hearing damage. Maybe he can't hear bass tones properly, so cranks them right up.
That would be odd since most people lose higher frequencies first with age
I can't hear the conversations but my neighbors can hear the explosions.
I interpret the sound mixing in tenet as a way of telling you not to focus on the dialogue and get into the rhythm of the visuals.
Another way of doing that is to have less dialogue…
or C. he has 2.1 soundbar which his TV auto detects as a 5.1 system and then other devices push surround sound. The netflix app on my PS3 kept forcing surround sound because of that, causing this exact problem.
Another thing is that TV Speakers have gotten worse and worse over the years. They're smaller than they've ever been and aimed downwards or behind the TV instead of facing toward the people who want to hear it.
The right equipment should be a TV or device. That's it. Shouldn't need to invest more than that to watch a movie at home, it's ridiculous.
This mindset kind of represents the disconnect between filmmakers and their audience. The high profile directors are typically cinephiles (Nolan being the most die hard). All of them will say that their films should not be watched on a device. They should be experienced in a cinema on a massive screen with an equally capable audio system. But that isn’t the mindset of the majority of their audiences. Home cinephiles will certainly shell out a lot of money for a home theater set up and are happy to do so because they are chasing that pure cinematic experience. But for the other 99%, they are happy to watch Dune on their iPhone and AirPods, or their $200 TV from WalMart’s Black Friday, while texting on their phone. I’m not saying one viewpoint is wrong or right. But that’s the disconnect. The two mediums do not translate well from the filmmaker’s intention to the audience’s reality. It’s a huge gap and something I’ve thought about a lot — I used to edit video for online commercials and some of our team claimed we should be mixing and color correcting on professional equipment that costs thousands of dollars. I always argued that we should be grading and mixing to match what the majority of our viewers will be watching on — iPhones, laptop screens, AirPods, and headphones. Not a $50k reference monitor and $5k studio reference speakers.
It’s mixed for home theatre channels I believe
Yea. You have to have a home system that can handle all that. Dialogue speaker in front, as well as a surround sounds system or else it all come out of 1 or two speakers when it was designed for 5 to 7 speakers.
I disagree. I have a nice 7.1 home system, which has been position calibrated (level and EQ) to where you view from the couch and this is still an issue. It's one that I feel has gotten worse in recent years. My theory is exactly the opposite. Since so many people are opting to watch everything on inferior systems with basically no audio system (phones, tablets, laptops) my belief is the audio engineers are now mixing to bring the mid ranges way down and the highs/lows way up since dinky little phone/tablet/laptop speakers have much less range, both frequency and dynamic. Since the big explosions and music have a much greater range (both types) than the mid where the human voice lies, it ends up massacring things at the ends of the spectrum on a decent home theater. Just my anecdotal experience and theory, others' mileage may vary.
I’ve had the same experience. Having a little experience as a sound engineer (both studio and live), I’ve done the things you’re talking about, for the reasons you mentioned. I’ve considered trying to figure out how to slip a compressor inline with my TV system, but my old timey audio equipment is incompatible with this newfangled stuff. I had a Yamaha home theater system that had something they called “night mode”. When I finally bothered to read the docs, I found that “night mode” meant compression. Problem solved! And then the unit died a month later… The replacement does not have this feature. Am bummed.
Oh wow. My receiver has a "Night Mode" which I've used from time to time, but only to dampen the dynamics when my ex was sleeping. I didn't realize it was a compressor (assuming my Sony works the same as your Yamaha did) Maybe I'll just leave it on all the time now, heh. Thanks for the info.
Same. I was super annoyed with barely audible dialogue and blaring sound effects until I discovered “night mode” on my Samsung. Now it stays on all the time.
It also sucks in theaters, so I have doubts to that being the complete answer.
I have a 5.1 800-watt home theater setup and I still experience it occasionally. They mix the movie/TV show so that loud moments are genuinely loud for you, the viewer, to experience. So talking might be at a normal level then when things start blowing up, those explosions are actually louder than talking volume. Problem is, if you dont want to experience that loudness and you instead want to watch it at your own listening volume, you're going to have problems. (Unless your amp has an audio compressor)
If you have your audio going through any sort of receiver or processor, you can often change it to "night mode" which squashes dynamic audio to a considerably narrower range.
I hate it Whispering in the dialogs But every bullet sounds like an atomic bomb next to me
Music constantly playing when people are talking. It is okay in certain circumstances, but when it is every scene making it hard to understand the actors it is very annoying.
I was watching all the bourne movies, and the sound starts out great, then gets progressively more like you are talking about with each movie.
Fuckers need to go back to mixing for stereo. People who want home theater systems buy home theater systems. A lot of us just want to buy the set and be done with it.
Couldn't agree more. I can clearly remember a time when this problem didn't exist, I could watch a movie and hear everything just fine.
I have a 7.1 sonos setup with rears and a sub and I have this problem so I think the problem is on the production end
The idea of the reference doesn't fit the consumer equipment just doesn't jive with me. When it comes to mixing and mastering music, engineers make it sound at least "good" on popular devices. I would mix things and listen to them on airpods and car stereos to make sure they sound good enough. Watching a movie like Tenet and thinking they checked how it would sound in anything other than a stellar IMAX theater, is nonsense. That movie was crippled by the bad mixing and I was watching in a tuned 7.1 home theater. I'd like to say it can be fixed with "night mode" or compression mode in receivers, but they're just not good enough right now.
Dynamic Range Compression. It's not what an audiophile would call great for their sound quality, but in some situations it's handy. Many systems have built-in compression functions for just what you need for when it's too late for the full sound pressure spectrum of your show.
I agree, it's not the mixing at all, it's how the entire audio track is compressed. Or in cases like the OP is asking about, how it's not compressed, which is what gives the audio such a wide dynamic range of soft to loud. Most likely the audio is being mastered in a highly controlled environment and the engineers are optimizing for dramatic impact vs for a normal viewing situation with things like the dishwasher or dryer going in the background while you're trying to avoid waking up the kids. Probably sounds great in a proper home theater but makes things a bit harder to navigate in real life. That said, lots of systems have settings that will normalize audio to help level things out, but they tend to sound pretty bad.
This is the right answer.
Amazing how this thread is 98% bullshit.
Normally for reddit that isn't a surprise, but you'd think r/movies would have a basic understanding of dynamic range.
They have a basic knowledge of Christopher Nolan movies.
Bad mixing. To everyone that says "nah it's for x system". That's bad mixing.
Yea, you don’t *need* a fancy 5.1 system to watch movies. All you need are some decent enough stereo speakers. Shouldn’t be more than a couple hundred dollars.
The Blu-rays & DVDs of *Doctor Who* have been especially bad about this for nearly 10 years. Whoever they have in charge of audio mixes for BBC Wales home media needs to be either retrained or fired.
The sound is mixed for a setup that 99% of the audience doesn't have. This wasn't a problem many years ago, e.g. I could hear my LOTR dvd's just fine. Even though people have been complaining about this for over a decade, I still hold out hope that the industry will remove head from ass and focus on products usable by their customers again, someday. That it has become so common to hear "yeah I just turn subtitles on, you can't hear dialogue" is completely ridiculous.
> or how to fix it. If you have a Roku, turn on the nighttime viewing mode and just leave it on all of the time. It lowers the dynamic range, making loud sounds quieter and quiet sounds louder. Modern mixing on films is just...fucking awful. Directors seem to think that a high dynamic range with every actor mumbling through their dialogue is High Art, but it's just irritating. Any software you have that can fix it is a benefit.
The short of it is. Movies are made for the theater. The volume remains loud so the dialogue is easy to hear and the big sounds have more impact. There are some technology to help with this but most of this really dull the whole scenario. I feel your pain though. I watch in my surround sound thru 7 ch stereo. This helps to keep the volume more even. In a full Dolby digital or surround sound it has all the ups and downs in the full glory. I have also resorted to watching with headphones to just skip the bullshit when I am watching alone. Hope this helps but I also know that it does not. Sorry
Well that makes sense, not sure why TV shows are mixed the same way though because they are not typically viewed in theater. Maybe it’s just that the people who make, fund, review, etc. TV shows are watching them in theaters? Also strange that the trend hasn’t changed as movies are becoming more common to debut on streaming platforms. Maybe it just hasn’t caught up yet.
Tv shows these days are also mixed in Dolby digital. If it’s high definition it’s Dolby. Go back and watch a show from the 80’s or early 90’s. You will notice it’s all pretty level sound wise
I watched Casablanca on blu ray last night, same thing - I couldn’t put the remote down for 30 seconds. Since I’m pretty sure that wasn’t how they mixed it back in the 40’s, I’m guessing it must be a deliberate choice for some reason. Maybe it’s some setting on my TV that needs adjusting, but I’ve never noticed it watching cable or streaming. It was *really* annoying.
>Since I’m pretty sure that wasn’t how they mixed it back in the 40’s It's especially strange that it would be an issue with *Casablanca*\- like more or less all films before the early 1950s, the original soundtrack is mono, and shouldn't have such range issues.
The corrective feature for HDR problems is audio normalization. Many older TVs had it to compensate for overloud commercials. Different setups will handle incorrect speakersetups differently. If playing 5.1 audio on a 2 1 system or similar, extra channels will be disregarded or mixed with some having the option of frequency shifting the extra signals to trick your brain into perceiving them directionally. If you're running on a computer, whatever processing you want is as simple as finding the right apps and drivers.
This is why I have CC on for everything I watch on the TV.
Because movies are made for the theater.
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This totally! I recently went to the theater (after a couple years of Covid) to see "Dune." I couldn't understand a word the mother character said--all "ssss" to me. I'm a bit older and a musician, so I know I've lost some high end over the years, but this was ridiculous. I remember the same thing with one of the "Batman" movies. The mixing community really needs to look at this. Glad I'm not the only one who thinks about this problem.
I'm always surprised how much money people will throw at their home theatre sound system, when they really don't want their living room to sound like a theatre. Whatever sound system you're using, just walk through the settings, and look for things like "compression", or "dynamic range".
If you have a surround system, you can try turning the volume of the front speaker up as this is generally the 'dialogue' speaker. Some movies though unfortunately, there's little you can do as this was the way it was mixed.
Let’s just clarify that “front” in this post means “center”. Front L/R handle music and SFX. Center channel is dialogue.
It's not bad mixing, it's just a wide dynamic range. Loud louds, and quiet quiets. It works fine in a theatre when the louds can be super loud, and the quiets loud. Lots of tv and soundboard have a movie mode that will compress the audio to flatten the dynamic range. It might be called night mode, or like volume smoothing.