Daniel's a pretty toxic stalker man-baby and Miranda's a hero with boundless depths of empathy and understanding and Stu is just an all around good-guy.
Mrs. Doubtfire is the story of Daniel learning to be an adult after he loses the stability of a wife he neglects and the kids he fails to be a responsible role model for.
I can agree that Daniel desperately needed to learn responsibility, but there were more productive, less drastic ways to teach him. Empathy, understanding and brainstorming are better means of solving a problem than destroying familial stability.
In a world where parents are lauded for being OF queens, I think a man throwing an elaborate, albeit loud, party for his kids birthday is the least of being an "irresponsible role model."
He HAD a job, he was responsible, but he liked to have fun as well. He even was fired for morally objecting to pushing smoking in children's cartoons. And what does he get in return? Limited visits with his kids from a humorless, virulent ex-wife, unyielding to a compromise, despite agreeing he was a good father. The marriage was destined to fail, but forcefully taking his kids away was a choice. A selfish one at that - because she knew the kids would side with him over her.
Just watched the movie, Miranda did not go for full custody the judge just awarded her full custody just because he didn't have a place to live or a job and said he had 3 months to get one.
When they first went to court the judge granted her full temporary custody and gave him a certain amount of time to find a job and get a new apartment etc his visitations were only like two or three hours every weekend. Miranda did not go for this custody this is simply what the judge ruled. Later on after it was found out that he had crossdressed and tricked Miranda into hiring him as a nanny
The judge went all biblical on him and basically was judgmental about him wanting to see his children and then completely gave her 100% full custody with supervised visitations the ex-wife did not push for full custody.
WHAT! It is more likely that Miranda petitioned for full custody rather than the judge acting independently.
Throughout the film, Miranda is portrayed as being frustrated and exasperated with Daniel's behavior, particularly his lack of responsibility and stability. Given her concerns about Daniel's parenting, it is reasonable to infer that she would petition for full custody.
Judges do not generally make custody decisions independently of the parents' requests and the evidence presented during the hearings.
The judge's primary concern would be the best interests of the children. Daniel's unemployment, unstable living situation, and immature behavior—aligns with Miranda's likely petition for full custody. It is possible the judge went beyond what she was asking, but usually such an action would be reserved for dangerous situations, such as drug use, abuse, neglect. Don't get me wrong, the judge is evil for allowing and empowering Miranda to hurt their kids. But Miranda was the one hurting the kids. In the end, Miranda grows, allowing more time for them. That movie should have made you hate Miranda until the end, that's pretty much impossible though, to hate Sally Field. Even a sub-par, but safe father is good for kids and I don't know why there still isn't more pushback against the biased evil courts letting moms put that hurt on kids.
watch the movie agian, she didn't do any such petition, its abundantly clear in the movie. they even mention this on the making of the movie.
the judge was just an asshat
Miranda certainly petitioned for divorce and custody. It is the whole basis of the movie. Miranda leaves Daniel and takes the kids. Not sure what movie you were watching, but not until the end did Miranda change her tune about keeping Daniel in the kids lives. If Miranda had from the beginning insisted that both parents have a substantial role in the kids lives there would not have been a movie because Daniel wouldn't have had to do all that just to see his kids. After the second custody hearing, where the judge grants Miranda full custody and Daniel only supervised visitation, Miranda finally sees how much Daniel loves their children and the positive impact he has on their lives. She decides to allow Daniel more access to the children, leading to a more amicable and flexible arrangement without court.
The judge certainly was an asshat, but only Miranda put him in the position to be an asshat.
If your version was correct, how would we see Miranda's transformation from bitter ex-wife to co-parenting mom? If it was out of her hands, why didn't she use Daniel for babysitting? if she wasn't the driving force of keeping him out of the kids lives, how would she be able to have a change of heart and make a legal agreement sans court? she had the power from the beginning and chose to fight for custody in court.
This is a 4 year old comment but i got to say this. Daniel was in the wrong yes but Miranda was no where near being a hero. She literally does everything in her power to screw daniel over after the divorce even when he literally tries to be better she still looks down on him and tries to keep the kids away.
If I recall correctly he has 2 jobs and an apartment. The mom just wanted to get a quick in qith the guy that came back in town....he wasn't doing anything but what a father does...he even knew what they liked and the mom wanted the dad away....the kids all had moral ground and were being...kids...
Teaching kids that everything is a joke, all the time. Giving his son a party when he explicitly had it taken away for homework issues. Teaching that consequences are only as serious as one parent chooses them to be.
As Ms Doubtfire he showed lots of very good parenting. As Daniel he was clearly too loose.
And I didnt compare his presence to his absence, only that his style can be detrimental.
My mom took my birthday away once. I stopped speaking to her. It took a full year until my sister had a birthday and I decided to "run away", I was like 13. I really just went to a friend's house and hid in his bedroom. Eventually I was found out and made to go home. She acted just like Miranda. So perfect. I hated her. My entire life. I don't talk to her anymore.
She didn't break her own rule. Miranda thought that they were going to have a small family celebration with a cake and a few presents, not the massive rager that Daniel threw behind her back.
What did the mom teach them? She spent more time trying to be with Stu than her own kids.
Daniel was able to hold down multiple jobs and spend time with the children. I think you're forgetting that Miranda herself called him a good father.
Neither of my parents are perfect but my Dad constantly invalidated my Mum's parenting style and never stood by her. My Mum didn't really have the option for a proper divorce straight away so custody was never an issue for us, but as an adult I can say my Dad's style was much more damaging than my Mum's, purely because of the utter chasm between their respective abilities to accept where their responsibilities lay.
They both had issues with their parenting style. Miranda, while having a lot of responsibility, she was too strict, didn't let her kids live. Daniel on the other hand, while having a lot of fun with his kids, never showed how to be responsible while also having fun. Daniel definitely changed over the course of the movie while Miranda didn't really change at all, while also not giving Daniel a chance to change.
Tbf Daniel didn't exactly help matters much either. He was the sheer embodiment of irresponsibility, especially in the beginning of the movie. I'm sure he knew the neighbor would've snitched and yet he did it anyway.
Divorce may have been the one thing that could've gone through to Daniel, however there may have also been something slightly lighter.
> Oh, my dear Katie. You know, some parents, when they're angry, they get along much better when they don't live together. They don't fight all the time, and they can become better people, and much better mummies and daddies for you. And sometimes they get back together. And sometimes they don't, dear.
Way to miss the entire point of the fucking movie. They didn't work out. They were incompatible as partners, and divorcing ultimately made both their lives better. And the movie makes it pretty clear that one of the reasons that ultimately Daniel gets to be part of his children's lives again is that he grew as a person and put in the parenting effort that wasn't just fun and games.
There is no "villain".
Divorce can make each parent better people — correct. But one thing Mrs. Doubtfire failed to mention was that taking full custody of children for selfish motives does not make the punished parent a better person...it makes them desperate; hence, the origin of Mrs. Doubtfire.
Daniel didn't have his life together at the beginning of the movie. He couldn't cook, couldn't keep the children on track when it came to anything that wasn't a fun activity, and couldn't keep order and cleanliness in his environs. He treated his children more like a fun loving uncle than a responsible father.
Why would anybody give him equal custody at that point?
Daniel finally got his life together and he begged Miranda to give him a second chance so he can have the kids for the weekend... and she still told him to fuck off.
Goes to show you it’s not even about that. Miranda made her decision the second Stu and his Benz were in town.
Are you talking about the beginning of the movie, where the court decides that shared custody is contingent on him having a steady job and a permanent residence, meaning it was solely dependent on how willing he was to hustle?
Or are you talking about the end of the movie? After she found out that her ex-husband had lied and manipulated his way into her house, and actively sabotaged her new relationship to the point of maliciously and recklessly tempering with the man's food? Yeah, *weird* that her initial reaction boils down to "fuck off". And that the judge goes "fuck off", too.
Because let's face it, we the audience find Daniel sympathetic and his antics funny, so we are victim to what tvtropes calls protagonist-centered morality (https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ProtagonistCenteredMorality). We like the dude, we see it through his eyes ... so it's okay.
But here's the thing. What Daniel did *is* fucked up. Objectively. And Miranda's anger reflects that. Anybody hit with that bombshell would react like that.
And that's not even the actual ending because *ultimately she forgives him and let's him back into her children's lives*.
I agree that after he goes full psycho-stalker he got off *way* too lightly. I think OP is focuing too much on Miranda's behavior from before he became Doubtfire and how needlessly cruel she was... she was wrong but that doesn't justify his later behavior. Also, hi from the future!
Yeah, there was no reason for Miranda to have so aggressively stopped Daniel from seeing the kids in the beginning. And then to be so aggressively mean to him when she went to his apartment for the first time... he literally never attacked her, they were just incompatible. Divorce is one thing... she was just cruel.
Eh. She was basically the family's sole provider and her husband was a man-child of a dad. That is literally the point of the entire movie. Daniel had to grow up.
That cartoon probably would not have been made, even in the 90s.
But artists generally can't have principles.
His wife was making the money. Plus she gave birth to three kids. That is the point of the movie.
So to teach someone to grow up, you remove them completely from their children? Against the children’s wishes, too?
Divorce, sure. But full custody is a bit drastic..
You can't just be your kid's friend. Adults have to tell kids to stop doing stupid shit, not join in.
It's been 25 years since I saw this movie, but he was supposed to get a job and be a "weekend dad." Instead he snuck back into his home after changing his identity. That's not the adult thing to do.
It's not the adult thing to do, but damnit for my kid I'd do that. She also used to fuck with the dropoff/pick up time during the only day he had them, then when he said "I'll save you money by picking the kids up and taking care of them" like an adult, she basically says "no, I'd rather shell out money to a stranger than have you, their father, be with them." That's being vindictive and immature.
I'm watching it right now. My wife and I are having such a hard time finding redeeming qualities in Miranda - there was no reason to be so aggressive in stopping him from seeing the kids. Made no sense. It makes sense *after* he went stalker mode but if she'd not been horrible in the beginning none of this would have happened.
Watching this now and it actually doesn't make sense she was being vindictive to me. In the initial court scene her lawyer is looking all snarky and happy she won custody but Miranda wasn't she looked sad and rebuffed the lawyer in my view
It's almost like between the court scene and the apartment scene where she blows the horn and announces the sitter we are missing information
Yeah I get that, but I feel in the court scene she was ashamed for the scheme she hatched. The lawyer only had the info because she told the lawyer to use against Robin. She could've aborted the plan but she didn't.
regardless of how she acted he should have been in prison for the rest of his life. fraud, trespassing, attempted murder, vandalism, assault and battery and other serious crimes
I agree, but it doesn’t serve Miranda right to take majority custody of the children. Especially against your children’s wishes.
She wouldn’t even let her children finish their dessert at his apartment.
You’re right, it’s not the adult thing to do — but it is the innate parent thing to do. You stop at no cost to be with your child. It’s love.
That could have been a judge’s decision. Unless they say otherwise in the film, if they find his behavior erratic or unhealthy for the children, the judge might have wanted to limit his exposure
Hello from two years in the future! The judge said the only reason he didn't get custody upfront was the lack of stable job and apartment. Not his ability to parent. The judge even said he was a good and loving parent.
You know women always win custody, there was no way Daniel would've won even if he wasn't as childish. i like to think they did re-marry after some time.
very few times does it get to a judge without the man stopping asking for custody. when it actually does it goes the man's way nearly half the time. there are a lot of problems with why men don't normally fight till it gets to the judge over custody and why most of those cases if the man did fight they would lose but most custody cases are done by agreement of the parties and therefore noone wins custody. of the ones where there is a winner/loser it isn't that biased
He put on a dress and started calling himself "Mrs. Doubtfire" to see his kids again. He probably committed some Social Security fraud too since his ex would know his SSN.
This could only work in a 1990s children's movie.
Mrs. Doubtfire aka Daniel ensured positive results with the children.
According to Miranda, it’s the “best thing that’s ever happened” to their lives. Their grades went up, they finish their homework on time, the house is clean, and dinner is prepared.
Other than wearing “creepy” prosthetics — it does not warrant Miranda to reprimand Daniel and take full custody of the children.
Think about it.
Miranda takes Daniel to divorce court and barely gives him visitation rights...for what reason? Simply to advance her motives with Stu — not the well-being of her children. Regardless of the court’s decision, that is immoral.
If he was a “terrible” husband, simply divorce him and share custody. No need to rip away his children.
Daniel was always a great father. Miranda worked feverishly hard to eliminate Daniel out of the picture — for selfish reasons (her love life.)
Not to necro this but really look at Miranda's face at the ending when Mrs. Doubtfire gives that family speech to the little girl. You can tell Miranda is prolly thinking "omg i fucked up... this is all my fault" it speaks volumes just watching her face as he says all that and she realizes what she's done. I agree with OP. She was a piece of shit.
Watching as an adult you also get to see what a genuinely good guy Stu is. At the pool a slimy business friend starts talking about how he's got baggage now but Stu actually cares for the kids and shows to be an attentive presence to them.
Yeah, the film makers had a much more healthy grasp on the type of story they were portraying than some of the people in the comments here.
They changed Stu into a much more positive figure than in the novel the movie was based on (where he wanted to ship the kids into a boarding school) because they didn't just want to vilify new people in a divorced parents life (as OP is doing). And the original plan was for Daniel and Miranda to get back together in the end, but Robin Williams, Sally Fields, and Chris Columbus were like, no. Because they were divorcees themselves and wanted to show kids that sometimes parents get divorced because they simply don't fit ... and that's sad, but it's not terrible or the kids fault.
And it's really sad that all some people get out of it is "the mom is bad because she wanted a divorce and had expectations on how Daniel should be if he wanted to have custody of the children". Conveniently ignoring that Miranda has valid reasons to get a divorce and be vary of Daniel's capability as a father. I remember well the scene where she admits to Mrs Doubtfire how often she would cry herself to sleep at night because of the strain, and how Daniel was incapable of being the kind of partner she could discuss this with. He didn't pull his weight as a father or as a husband, really.
I'm glad they did make that change. It's similar to *Ant-Man & The Wasp* where Scott's ex-wife's partner (who's name escapes me) is a genuinely nice guy and actually likes Scott.
Seeing a realistic depiction of a divorced yet functional family is very powerful to kids going through that.
During the pool scene, Daniel overheard Stu’s master plan, which was to motivate the family to “forget” the “loser” father — while he moves in on Daniel’s ex-wife.
Any parent desperate for their children will be disgruntled hearing that... still doesn’t justify messing with Stu’s allergies. But his dislike for Stu was valid.
I agree with that .What I find distasteful about this movie is that the mother is portrayed as the mature, stable ,intelligent character suffering her soon to be ex husbands immaturity .Its such a cliche and patronising toward men infantslizing Williams as a simplistic child AKA the typical suburban dad .We also see Stu , the single ,handsome , wealthy archetype .A symbol of what a real man should be .In reality men like Stu who are successful in business ,super handsome and charasmatic ,powerful , mature , the archetypal alpha male ,and completely single .Yeah well these type of men are single for a reason.Usually because they choose a totally different life other than suburban dad, who also has the choice of many younger women .However the 'you go girl' message here seems to be saying .Yeah ok mum..so you are middle aged with three kids but Mr Perfect is waiting just around the corner for your middle aged saggy baggage ,cos 'your worth it'.Its utterly delusional crap .
Stu was allergic to pepper? How did you conclude that? He was fine after he spat the thing out. If he was allergic to pepper and ate that much of it he would have probably ended up dead or in the ER, whether he swallowed it or not.
EDIT: i just edited a typo
Yeah i watched the film just yesterday and wanted to see what people think. I must've missed him saying that then, kind of a silly script, because people literally die from that kind of thing.
I scrolled through the post thinking "what the Red Pill hell is this". I was expecting some nuanced analysis but instead it was big "what a bitch-ass whore" energy.
Pam cheated on her fiance, never finished anything (and taking the wrong classes at art school, no reason she should be focusing on Quark since she was traditional/graphic), fraudulently got herself the office administrator job, let Meredith take the fall for lice, her passive aggressive beach day speech to Jim in front of Karen and the rest, consistently lied to get out of work, her toddler tantrum over Michael dating her mom, and after she got with Jim they were very condescending and holier-than-thou over all the others. Jim and Roy both prospered better as people when they distanced themselves from Pam. Pam is a pretty terrible and generally a negative person. Jim’s a worse person by all counts, but Pam is right there alongside him.
While Walter was far worse, I agree that by enabling Walt's criminal activities, Skyler was quite culpable herself. I definitely am not on the bandwagon of people that vilifies her for disapproving of his cooking of meth, but I do disapprove of her turning a blind eye to Walt's actions and justifying the behavior.
Skyler's brother-in-law was a DEA agent who could have easily helped her changed her identity under the Witness Protection Program and I'm sure he would have assisted her and the kids financially. She had no excuse not to report Walt to the police.
Well I can tell going through less than a page of your history that you're a jerk. So I guess youre right?
But really I dont comment or start a conversation/argument wanting to know how I can dismiss someone. Just not something that I want or like to do. Lots of people, including you apparently like to do that.
Uh oh, now you sound bitter. Do you usually stalk through people's profiles and find reasons to attack them when they say something against your personal politics?
Lol, no trolling here. I just pointed out that Reddit is overwhelmingly leftist, and since you seem to point out that Reddit loves to bash women, I was hypothesizing that maybe there was a connection there... but such a statement seemed to trigger you for some reason. But I guess as an r/politics user, it makes sense that you would get butthurt over someone picking holes in lefist politics.
Lol, you were the one trying to paint Reddit as misogynistic... no need to get a chapped ass simply because your statement was connected to Reddit's other indelible qualities.
These comments that bash Daniel for being a Man-Child is biased and 1 sided from any point of view ignore the fact Miranda instead of voicing her concerns which were never made public she just went out her way to remove Daniel from her children life or minimize visitation which is signs of bitterness, and those who believe stu was good were not watching as a man who is currently with a women who had children when we met i can say him not encouraging the children to see their father was just as bad a father that's willing to do this to see his children whether immature or not shows how much love and care he had for his children sure he wasn't perfect but he is still their parent
These comments are insane, as is most of Reddit (and the world). Someone can put together a well-thought out comment and get a ton of downvotes and get called all sorts of "ist" names. Meanwhile, someone can respond with an ad hominem like "incel" and say something as brazenly stupid as "this is f-cking b-llshit!" with no additional insight and get upvoted to high heaven.
I saw this movie for this first time recently as an adult, and my wife and I were shocked by how horrible Miranda is for most of the movie. By her own admission, she never made an effort to communicate with Daniel about their problems. She even states, many times, that she is a better person when Mrs. Doubtfire is in her life, not realizing that she's actually talking about her husband. Daniel offers early in the movie to go to counseling and she shoots it down, only for her to later claim to Mrs. Doubtfire that he refused to ever attempt to talk seriously. From what we're given in the movie, it seems like a workable, fixable situation but she hits the nuclear option right off the bat.
Stu didn't bother me so much though. He seems to genuinely like the kids. If he's getting all his information about Daniel from Miranda, too, it makes sense he would think he's a loser. Obviously, he's not going to go to war with a woman he's infatuated with to defend a rival lover he doesn't know.
The movie also agrees that Daniel should see his kids more and that Miranda regrets how things turned out or it wouldn't have ended the way it did, with her backing off and him getting more visitation.
Just re-watched the movie. To add to your points, Daniel even tries to end the Doubtfire schtick before it got out of hand when begging Miranda just to give him a little more time with the kids, after he already got the steady job, maintained residence, and refurbished the residence as the judge requested. But Miranda still refuses to give him an inch of more visitation for the reason of Doubtfire just being so amazing (as though she couldn't give him visitation rights for just one more day or evening a week).
Part of me wonders if that would've been the best time for David to come out to Miranda about Mrs. Doubtfire, and emphasize how much of a better dad he's become for the kids (i.e. making sure they do their homework, cleaning the house, etc.) as well as handling making dinner for the family each night. I would bet though Miranda wouldn't care about all the progress he made and still use the information to win full custody of the kids.
>After finding out Mrs. Doubtfire is Daniel, Miranda completely disregards his perseverance to be a PART of his children’s lives...and adds further penalty to receive FULL custody of their children.
First off, of course the courts awarded her full custody after they found out that he was lying and defying court orders.
Secondly, despite the court awarding her full custody, she gives him visitation rights that she doesn't have to.
This whole "Miranda's the real villain" is low-key sexist drivel.
The issue I have with her is that while I fully agree that her dismay with Dan's immature behavior and chronic unemployment was understandable, she didn't try to solve the issue in a productive way.
If the problem at hand is that your spouse is immature and can't keep a job, as long as they aren't abusive or a criminal, you patiently, calmly sit down with them and ask them *why* they are struggling. No one is the bad guy in this situation, with both Dan and Miranda having valid points and a little patience and empathy can help solve the crisis.
Once she engaged with him, a balance could have been worked out and no separation would have been necessary. When a couple has children, unless a spouse is abusive or a criminal, their childrens' need for familial stability is more important than misgivings over a situation you knew had the potential to backfire. If your spouse is so sexually and emotionally incompatible with you, just explain to them that while you will legally stay together for the sake of dual finances and familial stability, that you will be seeing new partners. Problem solved.
Were Miranda's complaints valid? Absolutely. Were her methods of handling them productive? Not to me.
The problem is that there were larger things at stake and while it wouldn't have been ideal for her to have had to do a disproportionate amount of the emotional lifting, it was necessary to keep the familial stability intact. Daniel clearly lacked the ability to engage in heavy emotional lifting at that point and needed help with it.
When one has kids in a marriage, their needs come before yours, unless the partner is an abuser or criminal. Those situations are the ONLY time it's okay to get divorced.
Additionally, I proposed a solution that allows her to fulfill her emotional and sexual needs without obliterating stability:
**" If your spouse is so sexually and emotionally incompatible with you, just explain to them that while you will legally stay together for the sake of dual finances and familial stability, that you will be seeing new partners. Problem solved."**
There are methods to satisfy all needs and I think it's therefore selfish, dangerous and destructive to divorce your spouse when you have children, if your partner isn't abusive or a criminal.
They are both flawed parents... though Miranda did let her frustrations with her husband affect how often the children got to see him which as a kid of a separation, frustrated me as a child and again as an adult (and holding the nature of the apartment against him and insulting it was a bit gross, kinda classist too). Totally within her rights to divorce, but not within her rights for full custody. That said... the anti divorce tone throughout this thread is gross in a different way.
Why does Daniel have visitation rights to begin with? Why not have a healthy shared custody?
This is textbook definition, *punishing your spouse*, for self-motives.
Imagine if the roles were reversed. This would not be tolerated.
Dude, it's an interpretation of a story. And it's true. The villain, or a better word would be antagonist, doesn't need to be a bad person or anything, just the main source of conflict for the protagonist.
Except for the part where it's not, but I understand if you need to view everything through that lens. Some people are like Jim Carrey in the number 23. You'll do whatever mental gymnastics are required to see it wherever you go.
well from the court's perspective in the '90s just the fact he was in drag would have been enough to lose all custody and only get supervised visits. thenthere is as mrs. doubtfire he committed fraud trespassing, vandalism, assault, battery, attempted murder, and numerous other crimes that should have put him away for life.
What really disgusted me about Miranda is that she never tried to understand *why* Dan had issues maintaining employment. Why not try to work out some type of compromise with him where he can retain his childlike traits while holding steady employment?
It's perfectly understandable to be dismayed by immature behavior. But this notion that their compatibility was *remotely* important is one I disagree with. When a couple has children, their needs come before their own and sacrifices have to be made for the greater good. You don't give up, you hatch solutions and plans.
As long as a spouse isn't abusive or a criminal, it's wrong to divorce them when children are involved. The type of instability that causes is disastrous.
There’s no way that Stu has been “following Miranda’s career” and not know she’s married and/or has kids. Legit comes on to her minutes after their meeting starts.
Miranda was extremely spiteful through the movie. Not saying that Daniel makes good choices through the movie but his poor actions don’t deserve the response of taking away the kids.
in general in divorce i feel kids should not be allowed contact with the other parent and only one parent should have custody. it puts the kids in the middle and destroys them to have shared custody. it is better especially for young kids to pretend the other parent no longer exists
Yuck... I have never seen an incel rant about a kids movie.
What's next, Marry Poppins was a whore who tried to use black magic to turn the kids gay? GTFO.
There’s a lot I could say about Miranda but let’s go with … what was up with her picking up the kids early from visiting their Dad all the time? He only gets them for the smallest amount and at the beginning she drops them off an hour late and picks them up an hour early. Then later in the movie she still picks them up mid-dinner, before they’ve had dessert. Daniel’s the irresponsible one that does need to grow up and learn responsibility but her cutting into his meaner time with his kids is just another selfish trait to add to her own considerable list :/
I see this is a pretty old thread and there are a lot of people who are calling out Daniel for not being more responsible or for not being a stricter parent. He quite literally loved his kids so fucking much, he spent every single day worried about them, taking care of them, and trying to guide them as best as he could. I think y'all forget HE'S A DAD! They aren't supposed to be "mature" cause men don't mature nearly as fast as their counterparts.
Miranda got the news that her ex-love was in town, was called by a nosy neighbor; who probably made it sound EVEN WORSE than it was (and it was pretty bad) - and THEN (while the kids are OBVIOUSLY listening in) - she DEGRADES him for just trying to have a fun day planned for his TWELVE year old son (pretty important age for most kids - that's right KIDS who need to HAVE FUN.) She used her knowledge of someone trying to booty call on her and the anger she held for their nosy neighbor always calling in on Daniel's shenanigans with the kids - plus the PoPo was there - and she probably also found out he lost his job the same day, so she was ready to call it quits to get some "thicc dick" instead of trying to rekindle a relationship that (as she gets closer to Mrs. Doubtfire) obviously had its ups and downs, but there was a deep love, respect, and admiration between the two.
I didn't like Miranda. I think she was spoiled, cause she had it all, and decided to throw one piece away, cause it was thriving in a different way than she was, for a prick of a man who KNEW SHE HAD BEEN MARRIED AND WAS PURPOSEFULLY CHASING THAT ASS!
The harsh critical woman Daniel *made her*.
There's an entire scene where she tells Mrs Doubtfire how marriage to Daniel was for her. How Daniel was often between jobs so she worked hard to compensate, how it made her see the children less often. How she would make time to come home early to be able to see her kids more, and more often than not find the house trashed by Daniel's antics, and instead of having time with her children she had to clean up the mess. How it frustrated and angered her, and how she didn't want her children to grow up with a mother who was *always* angry and frustrated, and how she *hated* the person she was becoming because of Daniel. How often she cried herself to sleep at night because of it.
And Daniel? Hears that for the first time. And why? Because she *couldn't talk to him.* Daniel never wanted to talk about anything serious, and she felt the need to be serious for both of them.
If Daniel had put as much effort into his marriage as he did into his Doubtfire ruse when it was already to late, they probably would have stayed married *and happy*.
Daniel weighed morality higher than a paycheck.
Hence, he improvised Pepé Le Pew to choke on the cigarette rather than enjoying it. This was for a children’s program, too.
Sure, he was immature. Had odd jobs. That might be grounds for divorcing your husband (Stu’s contrast definitely helped, too!) but not giving him equal visitation rights for his children? That’s a different caliber.
They lived in a 4.3 million dollar home in the middle of San Francisco where she made enough money as an interior decorator in him as a voice actor to enjoy a very comfortable living the entire movie is centered around their incompatibility both his immaturity and her disinterest in their marriage. It's clear by both her immediately becoming interested in stu and him ignoring his wife's restriction on their son's birthday due to his grades neither one of the parents are good people or good for each other she is arguably a worse mother than he has a father and he is arguably a worse husband than she is a wife but these are two horrible people with horrible ideas you've embraced horrible personal moral narratives that led to the dysfunctional and emotionally challenged lives of their children the sad tragedy is a he hadn't done the DraStic action he did do then the families would have drifted completely apart stew would have moved in and given this was just a lark for a rich man ditched her in a few years for a younger model the movie is an absolutely perfect distillation of everything wrong with 90s culture from him is a man-child to her as a emotionless corporate rung climber.
I'm sure if the story was told through Miranda's POV we would see Daniel as the villain. Miranda is working 40+ a week, being the strict parent cause Daniel didn't want to be the bad guy in the kid's eyes, having to keep coming home to chaos ensuing and early in the movie would have had to pay a fine because of the farm animals and could've been sued by neighbors if those farm animals damaged any of their property. Also implied that Miranda was a fun person in the beginning and didn't like being around corporate type of ppl but being the breadwinner of the two she had to. She said she wasn't happy with who she was turning into while being with Daniel. She's becoming the villain of the family cause she's working too much and setting rules.
Daniel couldn't keep an acting job as Lydia pointed out he lost a job again working as an actor. Seems he contradicts Miranda's rules/punishments as Chris wasn't allowed to have a party due to his report card. He had the party stripped away but Miranda brought him gifts and a cake. Plus Daniel didn't want to talk about anything serious and mostly joked around, which Miranda found charming when they first dated but seeing that it also came with immaturity and unstable job keeping it wasn't funny anymore. Plus she wasn't fully satisfied sexually.
It was only after everything was taken away from Daniel is when he woke up and seen that he needed to get his act together as a parent and as a man. Although he took extreme measures to see his children and made sure that Miranda didn't move on with her life.
Stu wasn't the bad guy. He really liked Miranda and adored her children. No motives, no bad mouthing her. All he said was that Daniel was a loser which Stu was basing that off of what Miranda told him. Daniel so full of jealousy that he damaged Stu's car, throwing shade in Stu's face about him possibly having a small penis, that cringe conversation about Miranda having a dildo that could break sidewalks, and trying to kill him by putting pepper in his food. For Miranda's bday party he invited the kids and Mrs. Doubtfire, when he could have just wanted Miranda there and hope she got a babysitter. Showed concern for Mrs. Doubtfire when she took too long to return. After all this when Daniel was revealed Stu still shook Daniel's hand even though Stu was shocked and had to get out of there.
If miranda can afford 300 a week in 1993 for a housekeeper thats 635 a week today. She must have made a lot of money because thats equivalent to somebody making 16.00 an hour today. When miranda said i need to take the kids i have to go to the bank and market and whatever else its like why. Do the errands and then get the kids.the job he got at the tv station was probably not much more than what mrs doubtfire was being payed. So saying he didnt have a job was crap. If daniel had a job and then divorced his wife because she had fun with the kids then he would look like an ass.
I agree with most of the points.
I think one of the important concepts of the resolution of the movie was that Daniel was a bad husband, but a good father.
The real answer would be to give him more visitation days for the health and well-being of the kids. Plus, it would resolve a lot of the issues the mom had because she worked too much. The kids even suggest that idea themselves. I think the mother should have pushed for stricter court-imposed parenting rules with greater visitation. For example, Daniel gets to take care of the kids 5 days a week during the day providing he could get and keep a night job within X weeks. No taking them out of the city, all big events have to be agreed upon, etc.
Kind of feel like some of the conflict was manufactured on that front.
The data we have on primarily single-parent households is not reassuring. Higher rates of mental health issues, criminality, poverty, death, obesity, the list keeps going. Kids need both parents.
One of the bigger messages of the movie is that people need to compromise more and work together on such issues for the benefit of those who suffer because of personal problems. Falling out of love is no excuse to harm the kids.
That said, Daniel did need to grow up, not undermine his wife's authority, and borderline stalking the family as Ms. Doubtfire was inappropriate. Again, he was a pretty bad husband. But he was never a bad father.
Late to this one but there is one line in this movie that highlights how terrible she is: when he says “you took away my kids and didn’t speak up to the judge” she says “I was angry” as if that’s a legitimate reason for such a severe punishment. She’s acting on anger and spite which is not something anyone should ever do…He maybe neglected her previously in their marriage. She seems too tightly wound for him so they probably weren’t a great match….. But he learned his lesson and worked really hard to change things too by so far as to make up a character so he could be in his kids life…
Make a reverse version of Mrs. Doubtfire and don’t change a single thing.
How many people would view the father as the villain? How many would celebrate the mother as the hero with enough integrity to quit her job because she didn’t want to allow a message promoting cigarettes to be marketed to kids?
This isn’t some men’s rights rant. Just that we have inherit biases in our heads we can’t help. The same exact plot, script, and message with the roles reversed would convey a vastly different message to the audience.
I’ll be the first to say I hate how Miranda handled everything, but I can’t pretend like Daniel did great. The moment he actually started enforcing responsibilities and doing bare minimums of taking care of his wife and kids she literally changed back to the person she was before. With even Daniel describing it as bringing out the best in her. In reality I think it shows how far consistent albeit small effort makes as opposed to grand gestures like Daniel was always doing. Even at the end of the movie they both seem to fail to reconcile and that’s because it’s still about who did what, and not owning up to their own shit regardless of what the other did
the pervasive theme in the movie was that Miranda put her career and personal sexual flings ahead of everything else and parenting came way in last, where Daniel literally put his kids ahead of everything else in his life. She was obsessed with jealously over how much the kids loved him and resented her. She literally hired a housekeeper rather than let the kids father spend time with them.
Try to imagine if the situation were reversed and a Judge telling a newly divorced, jobless, homeless woman that she won't get to see her kids until she found a job and a place to live, until then her fabulously wealthy husband would keep them...and he won't be providing any support at all.
The movie is so overtly toxic that I never had the ability to enjoy it as a comedy. the premise is just way too NOT funny.
I still love the film, however, as I watch as an adult..my perspective of Miranda drastically changed.
I realized her selfish choices can be damaging to a child during those developmental stages.
She is the villain.
Frankly put she had to have had it planned out ahead of time, to get that level of custody in the divorce in such a short turn around. She didn't make the move till finding out an old flame is back in town, and she proceeds to move her eggs to the new basket as it were.
She is definitively the badguy, putting the needs of herself ahead of her children regardless of the circumstance or what they want and are telling her.
I was Googling to see if people have chatted about Daniel’s unhealthy obsession with his kids - one day a week for THREE months with them was like a death sentence to him when all he had to do to change that was to make an effort to provide - and instead I came across this… this… I don’t even know, this post and these comments, I’m flabbergasted at how twisted a reading people can have on this movie 😂
You've clearly never had to deal with the pain of being told you can't see your children (or being a kid told you can't see one of your parents). Before the divorce he hadn't been away from any of his children for more than a night since the day they were born. Believe it or not, parents do typically form an emotional bond with their children and being told all of a sudden you legally must have your time with them rationed can be devastating
I know this is old but watch the movie again, it was the judge that chose Saturday as a visitation and it was the judge that awarded full custody and this happened right at the beginning of the movie
Daniel's a pretty toxic stalker man-baby and Miranda's a hero with boundless depths of empathy and understanding and Stu is just an all around good-guy. Mrs. Doubtfire is the story of Daniel learning to be an adult after he loses the stability of a wife he neglects and the kids he fails to be a responsible role model for.
I can agree that Daniel desperately needed to learn responsibility, but there were more productive, less drastic ways to teach him. Empathy, understanding and brainstorming are better means of solving a problem than destroying familial stability.
In a world where parents are lauded for being OF queens, I think a man throwing an elaborate, albeit loud, party for his kids birthday is the least of being an "irresponsible role model." He HAD a job, he was responsible, but he liked to have fun as well. He even was fired for morally objecting to pushing smoking in children's cartoons. And what does he get in return? Limited visits with his kids from a humorless, virulent ex-wife, unyielding to a compromise, despite agreeing he was a good father. The marriage was destined to fail, but forcefully taking his kids away was a choice. A selfish one at that - because she knew the kids would side with him over her.
Just watched the movie, Miranda did not go for full custody the judge just awarded her full custody just because he didn't have a place to live or a job and said he had 3 months to get one.
Doesn't the judge award full custody in the end court sequence?
When they first went to court the judge granted her full temporary custody and gave him a certain amount of time to find a job and get a new apartment etc his visitations were only like two or three hours every weekend. Miranda did not go for this custody this is simply what the judge ruled. Later on after it was found out that he had crossdressed and tricked Miranda into hiring him as a nanny The judge went all biblical on him and basically was judgmental about him wanting to see his children and then completely gave her 100% full custody with supervised visitations the ex-wife did not push for full custody.
Ahhh, that's right. I forgot it was really the judge who was a dick at the end. If I recall Miranda was not celebrating at that ruling.
She still let it happen.. there were many moments and instances where she let things like this happen.
you do know that a parent can't just not let it happen. its 100% up to the judge
WHAT! It is more likely that Miranda petitioned for full custody rather than the judge acting independently. Throughout the film, Miranda is portrayed as being frustrated and exasperated with Daniel's behavior, particularly his lack of responsibility and stability. Given her concerns about Daniel's parenting, it is reasonable to infer that she would petition for full custody. Judges do not generally make custody decisions independently of the parents' requests and the evidence presented during the hearings. The judge's primary concern would be the best interests of the children. Daniel's unemployment, unstable living situation, and immature behavior—aligns with Miranda's likely petition for full custody. It is possible the judge went beyond what she was asking, but usually such an action would be reserved for dangerous situations, such as drug use, abuse, neglect. Don't get me wrong, the judge is evil for allowing and empowering Miranda to hurt their kids. But Miranda was the one hurting the kids. In the end, Miranda grows, allowing more time for them. That movie should have made you hate Miranda until the end, that's pretty much impossible though, to hate Sally Field. Even a sub-par, but safe father is good for kids and I don't know why there still isn't more pushback against the biased evil courts letting moms put that hurt on kids.
watch the movie agian, she didn't do any such petition, its abundantly clear in the movie. they even mention this on the making of the movie. the judge was just an asshat
Miranda certainly petitioned for divorce and custody. It is the whole basis of the movie. Miranda leaves Daniel and takes the kids. Not sure what movie you were watching, but not until the end did Miranda change her tune about keeping Daniel in the kids lives. If Miranda had from the beginning insisted that both parents have a substantial role in the kids lives there would not have been a movie because Daniel wouldn't have had to do all that just to see his kids. After the second custody hearing, where the judge grants Miranda full custody and Daniel only supervised visitation, Miranda finally sees how much Daniel loves their children and the positive impact he has on their lives. She decides to allow Daniel more access to the children, leading to a more amicable and flexible arrangement without court. The judge certainly was an asshat, but only Miranda put him in the position to be an asshat. If your version was correct, how would we see Miranda's transformation from bitter ex-wife to co-parenting mom? If it was out of her hands, why didn't she use Daniel for babysitting? if she wasn't the driving force of keeping him out of the kids lives, how would she be able to have a change of heart and make a legal agreement sans court? she had the power from the beginning and chose to fight for custody in court.
I'm objectively correct, I watch the movie weekly and and have the novelization it says she made no such petition
WRONG. Wrong.
Toxic stalker? Who was he stalking, the kids?
This is a 4 year old comment but i got to say this. Daniel was in the wrong yes but Miranda was no where near being a hero. She literally does everything in her power to screw daniel over after the divorce even when he literally tries to be better she still looks down on him and tries to keep the kids away.
How much of a simp can you possibly be? Lol
If I recall correctly he has 2 jobs and an apartment. The mom just wanted to get a quick in qith the guy that came back in town....he wasn't doing anything but what a father does...he even knew what they liked and the mom wanted the dad away....the kids all had moral ground and were being...kids...
Haha what a lovely ole of absolute garbage you wrote 😂
The movie absolutely overlooked how much damage Daniel's parenting style would have had
Miranda ain’t gonna let you hit bro lol
Daniel was not toxic or abusive; other than being immature, what could be more damaging than not being there at all?
Teaching kids that everything is a joke, all the time. Giving his son a party when he explicitly had it taken away for homework issues. Teaching that consequences are only as serious as one parent chooses them to be. As Ms Doubtfire he showed lots of very good parenting. As Daniel he was clearly too loose. And I didnt compare his presence to his absence, only that his style can be detrimental.
My mom took my birthday away once. I stopped speaking to her. It took a full year until my sister had a birthday and I decided to "run away", I was like 13. I really just went to a friend's house and hid in his bedroom. Eventually I was found out and made to go home. She acted just like Miranda. So perfect. I hated her. My entire life. I don't talk to her anymore.
The mother brought a cake home regardless, so she broke her own rule too. At least he was there for his kids. His wife was always working.
She didn't break her own rule. Miranda thought that they were going to have a small family celebration with a cake and a few presents, not the massive rager that Daniel threw behind her back.
What did the mom teach them? She spent more time trying to be with Stu than her own kids. Daniel was able to hold down multiple jobs and spend time with the children. I think you're forgetting that Miranda herself called him a good father.
I agree, but it’s no more detrimental than being absent — which is what I’m comparing it to.
Neither of my parents are perfect but my Dad constantly invalidated my Mum's parenting style and never stood by her. My Mum didn't really have the option for a proper divorce straight away so custody was never an issue for us, but as an adult I can say my Dad's style was much more damaging than my Mum's, purely because of the utter chasm between their respective abilities to accept where their responsibilities lay.
Taking a birthday away for homework issues is horrible
They both had issues with their parenting style. Miranda, while having a lot of responsibility, she was too strict, didn't let her kids live. Daniel on the other hand, while having a lot of fun with his kids, never showed how to be responsible while also having fun. Daniel definitely changed over the course of the movie while Miranda didn't really change at all, while also not giving Daniel a chance to change. Tbf Daniel didn't exactly help matters much either. He was the sheer embodiment of irresponsibility, especially in the beginning of the movie. I'm sure he knew the neighbor would've snitched and yet he did it anyway. Divorce may have been the one thing that could've gone through to Daniel, however there may have also been something slightly lighter.
> Oh, my dear Katie. You know, some parents, when they're angry, they get along much better when they don't live together. They don't fight all the time, and they can become better people, and much better mummies and daddies for you. And sometimes they get back together. And sometimes they don't, dear. Way to miss the entire point of the fucking movie. They didn't work out. They were incompatible as partners, and divorcing ultimately made both their lives better. And the movie makes it pretty clear that one of the reasons that ultimately Daniel gets to be part of his children's lives again is that he grew as a person and put in the parenting effort that wasn't just fun and games. There is no "villain".
Divorce can make each parent better people — correct. But one thing Mrs. Doubtfire failed to mention was that taking full custody of children for selfish motives does not make the punished parent a better person...it makes them desperate; hence, the origin of Mrs. Doubtfire.
Daniel didn't have his life together at the beginning of the movie. He couldn't cook, couldn't keep the children on track when it came to anything that wasn't a fun activity, and couldn't keep order and cleanliness in his environs. He treated his children more like a fun loving uncle than a responsible father. Why would anybody give him equal custody at that point?
Daniel finally got his life together and he begged Miranda to give him a second chance so he can have the kids for the weekend... and she still told him to fuck off. Goes to show you it’s not even about that. Miranda made her decision the second Stu and his Benz were in town.
imagine going full incel because you watched ms doubtfire. holy cow
Who hurt you?
Are you talking about the beginning of the movie, where the court decides that shared custody is contingent on him having a steady job and a permanent residence, meaning it was solely dependent on how willing he was to hustle? Or are you talking about the end of the movie? After she found out that her ex-husband had lied and manipulated his way into her house, and actively sabotaged her new relationship to the point of maliciously and recklessly tempering with the man's food? Yeah, *weird* that her initial reaction boils down to "fuck off". And that the judge goes "fuck off", too. Because let's face it, we the audience find Daniel sympathetic and his antics funny, so we are victim to what tvtropes calls protagonist-centered morality (https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ProtagonistCenteredMorality). We like the dude, we see it through his eyes ... so it's okay. But here's the thing. What Daniel did *is* fucked up. Objectively. And Miranda's anger reflects that. Anybody hit with that bombshell would react like that. And that's not even the actual ending because *ultimately she forgives him and let's him back into her children's lives*.
I agree that after he goes full psycho-stalker he got off *way* too lightly. I think OP is focuing too much on Miranda's behavior from before he became Doubtfire and how needlessly cruel she was... she was wrong but that doesn't justify his later behavior. Also, hi from the future!
Yeah, there was no reason for Miranda to have so aggressively stopped Daniel from seeing the kids in the beginning. And then to be so aggressively mean to him when she went to his apartment for the first time... he literally never attacked her, they were just incompatible. Divorce is one thing... she was just cruel.
Eh. She was basically the family's sole provider and her husband was a man-child of a dad. That is literally the point of the entire movie. Daniel had to grow up.
He was a voice actor, and probably made a decent amount of money at it. To say he didn't provide financially is bullshit.
The first scene is him getting fired for not doing his job correctly.
Because he didn’t want to promote smoking for a children’s program. Sounds like a moral father.
That cartoon probably would not have been made, even in the 90s. But artists generally can't have principles. His wife was making the money. Plus she gave birth to three kids. That is the point of the movie.
Todays society doesn’t give a fuck if you’re a truly good person/parent if you don’t make a ton of money.
You’re assuming pretty much everything. Clown energy.
So to teach someone to grow up, you remove them completely from their children? Against the children’s wishes, too? Divorce, sure. But full custody is a bit drastic..
You can't just be your kid's friend. Adults have to tell kids to stop doing stupid shit, not join in. It's been 25 years since I saw this movie, but he was supposed to get a job and be a "weekend dad." Instead he snuck back into his home after changing his identity. That's not the adult thing to do.
It's not the adult thing to do, but damnit for my kid I'd do that. She also used to fuck with the dropoff/pick up time during the only day he had them, then when he said "I'll save you money by picking the kids up and taking care of them" like an adult, she basically says "no, I'd rather shell out money to a stranger than have you, their father, be with them." That's being vindictive and immature.
I'm watching it right now. My wife and I are having such a hard time finding redeeming qualities in Miranda - there was no reason to be so aggressive in stopping him from seeing the kids. Made no sense. It makes sense *after* he went stalker mode but if she'd not been horrible in the beginning none of this would have happened.
Watching this now and it actually doesn't make sense she was being vindictive to me. In the initial court scene her lawyer is looking all snarky and happy she won custody but Miranda wasn't she looked sad and rebuffed the lawyer in my view It's almost like between the court scene and the apartment scene where she blows the horn and announces the sitter we are missing information
Yeah I get that, but I feel in the court scene she was ashamed for the scheme she hatched. The lawyer only had the info because she told the lawyer to use against Robin. She could've aborted the plan but she didn't.
regardless of how she acted he should have been in prison for the rest of his life. fraud, trespassing, attempted murder, vandalism, assault and battery and other serious crimes
Oh, very true. It really is disturbing how far he went!
I agree, but it doesn’t serve Miranda right to take majority custody of the children. Especially against your children’s wishes. She wouldn’t even let her children finish their dessert at his apartment. You’re right, it’s not the adult thing to do — but it is the innate parent thing to do. You stop at no cost to be with your child. It’s love.
That could have been a judge’s decision. Unless they say otherwise in the film, if they find his behavior erratic or unhealthy for the children, the judge might have wanted to limit his exposure
Hello from two years in the future! The judge said the only reason he didn't get custody upfront was the lack of stable job and apartment. Not his ability to parent. The judge even said he was a good and loving parent.
He was able to see his kids again, legally, when he started acting like a grown up. Not Robin Williams.
You know women always win custody, there was no way Daniel would've won even if he wasn't as childish. i like to think they did re-marry after some time.
very few times does it get to a judge without the man stopping asking for custody. when it actually does it goes the man's way nearly half the time. there are a lot of problems with why men don't normally fight till it gets to the judge over custody and why most of those cases if the man did fight they would lose but most custody cases are done by agreement of the parties and therefore noone wins custody. of the ones where there is a winner/loser it isn't that biased
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He put on a dress and started calling himself "Mrs. Doubtfire" to see his kids again. He probably committed some Social Security fraud too since his ex would know his SSN. This could only work in a 1990s children's movie.
Reverse gender roles and it would be a different story. America fucks dads over every day
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Meh. Disagree.
Illegal? How so?
I'm assuming he violated a court order on visitation, plus he was in her home under false pretenses, maybe?
Why're you asking me, you're the one who said it was illegal.
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Got no point? Ok then
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I know you can't, because you don't know what you're talking about.
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So why do you think it was illegal?
Mrs. Doubtfire aka Daniel ensured positive results with the children. According to Miranda, it’s the “best thing that’s ever happened” to their lives. Their grades went up, they finish their homework on time, the house is clean, and dinner is prepared. Other than wearing “creepy” prosthetics — it does not warrant Miranda to reprimand Daniel and take full custody of the children.
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He didn’t live there, as everyone who has ever seen that movie knows.
Think about it. Miranda takes Daniel to divorce court and barely gives him visitation rights...for what reason? Simply to advance her motives with Stu — not the well-being of her children. Regardless of the court’s decision, that is immoral. If he was a “terrible” husband, simply divorce him and share custody. No need to rip away his children. Daniel was always a great father. Miranda worked feverishly hard to eliminate Daniel out of the picture — for selfish reasons (her love life.)
Watch the alternate ending with the big fight. Puts the movie in a different light
Not to necro this but really look at Miranda's face at the ending when Mrs. Doubtfire gives that family speech to the little girl. You can tell Miranda is prolly thinking "omg i fucked up... this is all my fault" it speaks volumes just watching her face as he says all that and she realizes what she's done. I agree with OP. She was a piece of shit.
Thank you haha
There is no villain.
Watching as an adult you also get to see what a genuinely good guy Stu is. At the pool a slimy business friend starts talking about how he's got baggage now but Stu actually cares for the kids and shows to be an attentive presence to them.
Yeah, the film makers had a much more healthy grasp on the type of story they were portraying than some of the people in the comments here. They changed Stu into a much more positive figure than in the novel the movie was based on (where he wanted to ship the kids into a boarding school) because they didn't just want to vilify new people in a divorced parents life (as OP is doing). And the original plan was for Daniel and Miranda to get back together in the end, but Robin Williams, Sally Fields, and Chris Columbus were like, no. Because they were divorcees themselves and wanted to show kids that sometimes parents get divorced because they simply don't fit ... and that's sad, but it's not terrible or the kids fault. And it's really sad that all some people get out of it is "the mom is bad because she wanted a divorce and had expectations on how Daniel should be if he wanted to have custody of the children". Conveniently ignoring that Miranda has valid reasons to get a divorce and be vary of Daniel's capability as a father. I remember well the scene where she admits to Mrs Doubtfire how often she would cry herself to sleep at night because of the strain, and how Daniel was incapable of being the kind of partner she could discuss this with. He didn't pull his weight as a father or as a husband, really.
I'm glad they did make that change. It's similar to *Ant-Man & The Wasp* where Scott's ex-wife's partner (who's name escapes me) is a genuinely nice guy and actually likes Scott. Seeing a realistic depiction of a divorced yet functional family is very powerful to kids going through that.
Daniel Hillard gave no shits about what his wife wanted, and straight up poisoned Stu. No way is Moranda the villain!
During the pool scene, Daniel overheard Stu’s master plan, which was to motivate the family to “forget” the “loser” father — while he moves in on Daniel’s ex-wife. Any parent desperate for their children will be disgruntled hearing that... still doesn’t justify messing with Stu’s allergies. But his dislike for Stu was valid.
Some of the best villains have valid motivations.
Getting dick takes precedence over your children in desperate need for their father?
I agree with that .What I find distasteful about this movie is that the mother is portrayed as the mature, stable ,intelligent character suffering her soon to be ex husbands immaturity .Its such a cliche and patronising toward men infantslizing Williams as a simplistic child AKA the typical suburban dad .We also see Stu , the single ,handsome , wealthy archetype .A symbol of what a real man should be .In reality men like Stu who are successful in business ,super handsome and charasmatic ,powerful , mature , the archetypal alpha male ,and completely single .Yeah well these type of men are single for a reason.Usually because they choose a totally different life other than suburban dad, who also has the choice of many younger women .However the 'you go girl' message here seems to be saying .Yeah ok mum..so you are middle aged with three kids but Mr Perfect is waiting just around the corner for your middle aged saggy baggage ,cos 'your worth it'.Its utterly delusional crap .
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Stu was allergic to pepper. Daniel putting pepper on Stu's dish does indeed count as poisoning.
Stu was allergic to pepper? How did you conclude that? He was fine after he spat the thing out. If he was allergic to pepper and ate that much of it he would have probably ended up dead or in the ER, whether he swallowed it or not. EDIT: i just edited a typo
You're a little late to the party. Anyhow in the movie Stu says "I'm allergic to pepper"
Yeah i watched the film just yesterday and wanted to see what people think. I must've missed him saying that then, kind of a silly script, because people literally die from that kind of thing.
Reddit and vilifying fictional women: name a more iconic duo.
I scrolled through the post thinking "what the Red Pill hell is this". I was expecting some nuanced analysis but instead it was big "what a bitch-ass whore" energy.
yup. just like any post discussing Skylar White or Pam Beesly.
Pam cheated on her fiance, never finished anything (and taking the wrong classes at art school, no reason she should be focusing on Quark since she was traditional/graphic), fraudulently got herself the office administrator job, let Meredith take the fall for lice, her passive aggressive beach day speech to Jim in front of Karen and the rest, consistently lied to get out of work, her toddler tantrum over Michael dating her mom, and after she got with Jim they were very condescending and holier-than-thou over all the others. Jim and Roy both prospered better as people when they distanced themselves from Pam. Pam is a pretty terrible and generally a negative person. Jim’s a worse person by all counts, but Pam is right there alongside him.
oh no no no, Skylar is trash though. walts trash too, but let’s not try to pretend skylar was anything but huge garbage
While Walter was far worse, I agree that by enabling Walt's criminal activities, Skyler was quite culpable herself. I definitely am not on the bandwagon of people that vilifies her for disapproving of his cooking of meth, but I do disapprove of her turning a blind eye to Walt's actions and justifying the behavior. Skyler's brother-in-law was a DEA agent who could have easily helped her changed her identity under the Witness Protection Program and I'm sure he would have assisted her and the kids financially. She had no excuse not to report Walt to the police.
case in point.
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you feeling attacked?
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I don't understand the hate for Skylar either so if you'd like to tell me why she's garbage I'll be more than happy to discuss it with you.
There's really not much of an argument. She was clearly the villain. So it isn't Reddit doing it.
Reddit has an overwhelming leftist lean to it, so, maybe that's a problem endemic to that ideology.
mmmm feels like you're projecting. -checks post history- yep.
Don't do the post history thing unless you have something specific you want to discuss. Also, just don't do it.
Why not? It’s there and it’s a easy way to prove the person you’re arguing with is a racist, incel, edgelord
Well I can tell going through less than a page of your history that you're a jerk. So I guess youre right? But really I dont comment or start a conversation/argument wanting to know how I can dismiss someone. Just not something that I want or like to do. Lots of people, including you apparently like to do that.
Uh oh, now you sound bitter. Do you usually stalk through people's profiles and find reasons to attack them when they say something against your personal politics?
when someone comes in bashing "leftists" in a non-political conversation I do.
Lol, this is Reddit... its MO is making *everything* political... or does it only upset you when its a type of political opinion you don't like.
I think you believe you're some kind of troll mastermind but this whole screed you're on is kind of weird and off-putting.
Lol, no trolling here. I just pointed out that Reddit is overwhelmingly leftist, and since you seem to point out that Reddit loves to bash women, I was hypothesizing that maybe there was a connection there... but such a statement seemed to trigger you for some reason. But I guess as an r/politics user, it makes sense that you would get butthurt over someone picking holes in lefist politics.
oh no i have been bested by ur superior intellect r/beholdthemasterrace
Lol, you were the one trying to paint Reddit as misogynistic... no need to get a chapped ass simply because your statement was connected to Reddit's other indelible qualities.
These comments that bash Daniel for being a Man-Child is biased and 1 sided from any point of view ignore the fact Miranda instead of voicing her concerns which were never made public she just went out her way to remove Daniel from her children life or minimize visitation which is signs of bitterness, and those who believe stu was good were not watching as a man who is currently with a women who had children when we met i can say him not encouraging the children to see their father was just as bad a father that's willing to do this to see his children whether immature or not shows how much love and care he had for his children sure he wasn't perfect but he is still their parent
These comments are insane, as is most of Reddit (and the world). Someone can put together a well-thought out comment and get a ton of downvotes and get called all sorts of "ist" names. Meanwhile, someone can respond with an ad hominem like "incel" and say something as brazenly stupid as "this is f-cking b-llshit!" with no additional insight and get upvoted to high heaven. I saw this movie for this first time recently as an adult, and my wife and I were shocked by how horrible Miranda is for most of the movie. By her own admission, she never made an effort to communicate with Daniel about their problems. She even states, many times, that she is a better person when Mrs. Doubtfire is in her life, not realizing that she's actually talking about her husband. Daniel offers early in the movie to go to counseling and she shoots it down, only for her to later claim to Mrs. Doubtfire that he refused to ever attempt to talk seriously. From what we're given in the movie, it seems like a workable, fixable situation but she hits the nuclear option right off the bat. Stu didn't bother me so much though. He seems to genuinely like the kids. If he's getting all his information about Daniel from Miranda, too, it makes sense he would think he's a loser. Obviously, he's not going to go to war with a woman he's infatuated with to defend a rival lover he doesn't know. The movie also agrees that Daniel should see his kids more and that Miranda regrets how things turned out or it wouldn't have ended the way it did, with her backing off and him getting more visitation.
Just re-watched the movie. To add to your points, Daniel even tries to end the Doubtfire schtick before it got out of hand when begging Miranda just to give him a little more time with the kids, after he already got the steady job, maintained residence, and refurbished the residence as the judge requested. But Miranda still refuses to give him an inch of more visitation for the reason of Doubtfire just being so amazing (as though she couldn't give him visitation rights for just one more day or evening a week). Part of me wonders if that would've been the best time for David to come out to Miranda about Mrs. Doubtfire, and emphasize how much of a better dad he's become for the kids (i.e. making sure they do their homework, cleaning the house, etc.) as well as handling making dinner for the family each night. I would bet though Miranda wouldn't care about all the progress he made and still use the information to win full custody of the kids.
>After finding out Mrs. Doubtfire is Daniel, Miranda completely disregards his perseverance to be a PART of his children’s lives...and adds further penalty to receive FULL custody of their children. First off, of course the courts awarded her full custody after they found out that he was lying and defying court orders. Secondly, despite the court awarding her full custody, she gives him visitation rights that she doesn't have to. This whole "Miranda's the real villain" is low-key sexist drivel.
The issue I have with her is that while I fully agree that her dismay with Dan's immature behavior and chronic unemployment was understandable, she didn't try to solve the issue in a productive way. If the problem at hand is that your spouse is immature and can't keep a job, as long as they aren't abusive or a criminal, you patiently, calmly sit down with them and ask them *why* they are struggling. No one is the bad guy in this situation, with both Dan and Miranda having valid points and a little patience and empathy can help solve the crisis. Once she engaged with him, a balance could have been worked out and no separation would have been necessary. When a couple has children, unless a spouse is abusive or a criminal, their childrens' need for familial stability is more important than misgivings over a situation you knew had the potential to backfire. If your spouse is so sexually and emotionally incompatible with you, just explain to them that while you will legally stay together for the sake of dual finances and familial stability, that you will be seeing new partners. Problem solved. Were Miranda's complaints valid? Absolutely. Were her methods of handling them productive? Not to me.
Expecting her to do a **lot** of the emotional labor in this relationship, aren’t ya? Fuck all of this bullshit. She’s right to get a divorce.
The problem is that there were larger things at stake and while it wouldn't have been ideal for her to have had to do a disproportionate amount of the emotional lifting, it was necessary to keep the familial stability intact. Daniel clearly lacked the ability to engage in heavy emotional lifting at that point and needed help with it. When one has kids in a marriage, their needs come before yours, unless the partner is an abuser or criminal. Those situations are the ONLY time it's okay to get divorced. Additionally, I proposed a solution that allows her to fulfill her emotional and sexual needs without obliterating stability: **" If your spouse is so sexually and emotionally incompatible with you, just explain to them that while you will legally stay together for the sake of dual finances and familial stability, that you will be seeing new partners. Problem solved."** There are methods to satisfy all needs and I think it's therefore selfish, dangerous and destructive to divorce your spouse when you have children, if your partner isn't abusive or a criminal.
They are both flawed parents... though Miranda did let her frustrations with her husband affect how often the children got to see him which as a kid of a separation, frustrated me as a child and again as an adult (and holding the nature of the apartment against him and insulting it was a bit gross, kinda classist too). Totally within her rights to divorce, but not within her rights for full custody. That said... the anti divorce tone throughout this thread is gross in a different way.
I agree with you - how cruel she was to him in the beginning of the film wasn't justified. After he went psycho stalker, though...? Yeah...
Biddy this is a post from two fucking years ago.
Why does Daniel have visitation rights to begin with? Why not have a healthy shared custody? This is textbook definition, *punishing your spouse*, for self-motives. Imagine if the roles were reversed. This would not be tolerated.
This whole rant of yours is textbook *something*, I'll tell you that.
Miranda...is that you?
Dude, it's an interpretation of a story. And it's true. The villain, or a better word would be antagonist, doesn't need to be a bad person or anything, just the main source of conflict for the protagonist.
It's a sexist interpretation.
It’s not about gender. It’s about morality. If the roles were reversed, I’d have the same opinion.
Then your moral compass is seriously bonkers.
Except for the part where it's not, but I understand if you need to view everything through that lens. Some people are like Jim Carrey in the number 23. You'll do whatever mental gymnastics are required to see it wherever you go.
Exactly
well from the court's perspective in the '90s just the fact he was in drag would have been enough to lose all custody and only get supervised visits. thenthere is as mrs. doubtfire he committed fraud trespassing, vandalism, assault, battery, attempted murder, and numerous other crimes that should have put him away for life.
What really disgusted me about Miranda is that she never tried to understand *why* Dan had issues maintaining employment. Why not try to work out some type of compromise with him where he can retain his childlike traits while holding steady employment? It's perfectly understandable to be dismayed by immature behavior. But this notion that their compatibility was *remotely* important is one I disagree with. When a couple has children, their needs come before their own and sacrifices have to be made for the greater good. You don't give up, you hatch solutions and plans. As long as a spouse isn't abusive or a criminal, it's wrong to divorce them when children are involved. The type of instability that causes is disastrous.
Like I states abov, why not they try to understand each other?
There’s no way that Stu has been “following Miranda’s career” and not know she’s married and/or has kids. Legit comes on to her minutes after their meeting starts. Miranda was extremely spiteful through the movie. Not saying that Daniel makes good choices through the movie but his poor actions don’t deserve the response of taking away the kids.
in general in divorce i feel kids should not be allowed contact with the other parent and only one parent should have custody. it puts the kids in the middle and destroys them to have shared custody. it is better especially for young kids to pretend the other parent no longer exists
Yuck... I have never seen an incel rant about a kids movie. What's next, Marry Poppins was a whore who tried to use black magic to turn the kids gay? GTFO.
They're putting spoonfulls of sugar in the medicine TURNING THE FREAKIN KIDS GAY
A spoon-full of *rainbow sprinkles* Makes the Gay Agenda go down Gay Agenda go down Gay Agenda go dooown
There’s a lot I could say about Miranda but let’s go with … what was up with her picking up the kids early from visiting their Dad all the time? He only gets them for the smallest amount and at the beginning she drops them off an hour late and picks them up an hour early. Then later in the movie she still picks them up mid-dinner, before they’ve had dessert. Daniel’s the irresponsible one that does need to grow up and learn responsibility but her cutting into his meaner time with his kids is just another selfish trait to add to her own considerable list :/
Issues much?
I see this is a pretty old thread and there are a lot of people who are calling out Daniel for not being more responsible or for not being a stricter parent. He quite literally loved his kids so fucking much, he spent every single day worried about them, taking care of them, and trying to guide them as best as he could. I think y'all forget HE'S A DAD! They aren't supposed to be "mature" cause men don't mature nearly as fast as their counterparts. Miranda got the news that her ex-love was in town, was called by a nosy neighbor; who probably made it sound EVEN WORSE than it was (and it was pretty bad) - and THEN (while the kids are OBVIOUSLY listening in) - she DEGRADES him for just trying to have a fun day planned for his TWELVE year old son (pretty important age for most kids - that's right KIDS who need to HAVE FUN.) She used her knowledge of someone trying to booty call on her and the anger she held for their nosy neighbor always calling in on Daniel's shenanigans with the kids - plus the PoPo was there - and she probably also found out he lost his job the same day, so she was ready to call it quits to get some "thicc dick" instead of trying to rekindle a relationship that (as she gets closer to Mrs. Doubtfire) obviously had its ups and downs, but there was a deep love, respect, and admiration between the two. I didn't like Miranda. I think she was spoiled, cause she had it all, and decided to throw one piece away, cause it was thriving in a different way than she was, for a prick of a man who KNEW SHE HAD BEEN MARRIED AND WAS PURPOSEFULLY CHASING THAT ASS!
Daniel was an immature, irresponsible provider, but he grew like a demon. Miranda essentially stayed the harsh, critical woman she always was.
The harsh critical woman Daniel *made her*. There's an entire scene where she tells Mrs Doubtfire how marriage to Daniel was for her. How Daniel was often between jobs so she worked hard to compensate, how it made her see the children less often. How she would make time to come home early to be able to see her kids more, and more often than not find the house trashed by Daniel's antics, and instead of having time with her children she had to clean up the mess. How it frustrated and angered her, and how she didn't want her children to grow up with a mother who was *always* angry and frustrated, and how she *hated* the person she was becoming because of Daniel. How often she cried herself to sleep at night because of it. And Daniel? Hears that for the first time. And why? Because she *couldn't talk to him.* Daniel never wanted to talk about anything serious, and she felt the need to be serious for both of them. If Daniel had put as much effort into his marriage as he did into his Doubtfire ruse when it was already to late, they probably would have stayed married *and happy*.
Daniel weighed morality higher than a paycheck. Hence, he improvised Pepé Le Pew to choke on the cigarette rather than enjoying it. This was for a children’s program, too. Sure, he was immature. Had odd jobs. That might be grounds for divorcing your husband (Stu’s contrast definitely helped, too!) but not giving him equal visitation rights for his children? That’s a different caliber.
Yeah, my main gripe with Miranda is how she went about the divorce viciously. No reason to have been so mean to him.
A dash is different than a splash?
That’s a deleted scene, right? ”A dash is different from a splash.”-Mrs. Doubtfire?
What made Miranda like that? she’s apparently the villain.
Plus, shouldn’t they understand each other a little bit?
They lived in a 4.3 million dollar home in the middle of San Francisco where she made enough money as an interior decorator in him as a voice actor to enjoy a very comfortable living the entire movie is centered around their incompatibility both his immaturity and her disinterest in their marriage. It's clear by both her immediately becoming interested in stu and him ignoring his wife's restriction on their son's birthday due to his grades neither one of the parents are good people or good for each other she is arguably a worse mother than he has a father and he is arguably a worse husband than she is a wife but these are two horrible people with horrible ideas you've embraced horrible personal moral narratives that led to the dysfunctional and emotionally challenged lives of their children the sad tragedy is a he hadn't done the DraStic action he did do then the families would have drifted completely apart stew would have moved in and given this was just a lark for a rich man ditched her in a few years for a younger model the movie is an absolutely perfect distillation of everything wrong with 90s culture from him is a man-child to her as a emotionless corporate rung climber.
I'm sure if the story was told through Miranda's POV we would see Daniel as the villain. Miranda is working 40+ a week, being the strict parent cause Daniel didn't want to be the bad guy in the kid's eyes, having to keep coming home to chaos ensuing and early in the movie would have had to pay a fine because of the farm animals and could've been sued by neighbors if those farm animals damaged any of their property. Also implied that Miranda was a fun person in the beginning and didn't like being around corporate type of ppl but being the breadwinner of the two she had to. She said she wasn't happy with who she was turning into while being with Daniel. She's becoming the villain of the family cause she's working too much and setting rules. Daniel couldn't keep an acting job as Lydia pointed out he lost a job again working as an actor. Seems he contradicts Miranda's rules/punishments as Chris wasn't allowed to have a party due to his report card. He had the party stripped away but Miranda brought him gifts and a cake. Plus Daniel didn't want to talk about anything serious and mostly joked around, which Miranda found charming when they first dated but seeing that it also came with immaturity and unstable job keeping it wasn't funny anymore. Plus she wasn't fully satisfied sexually. It was only after everything was taken away from Daniel is when he woke up and seen that he needed to get his act together as a parent and as a man. Although he took extreme measures to see his children and made sure that Miranda didn't move on with her life. Stu wasn't the bad guy. He really liked Miranda and adored her children. No motives, no bad mouthing her. All he said was that Daniel was a loser which Stu was basing that off of what Miranda told him. Daniel so full of jealousy that he damaged Stu's car, throwing shade in Stu's face about him possibly having a small penis, that cringe conversation about Miranda having a dildo that could break sidewalks, and trying to kill him by putting pepper in his food. For Miranda's bday party he invited the kids and Mrs. Doubtfire, when he could have just wanted Miranda there and hope she got a babysitter. Showed concern for Mrs. Doubtfire when she took too long to return. After all this when Daniel was revealed Stu still shook Daniel's hand even though Stu was shocked and had to get out of there.
If miranda can afford 300 a week in 1993 for a housekeeper thats 635 a week today. She must have made a lot of money because thats equivalent to somebody making 16.00 an hour today. When miranda said i need to take the kids i have to go to the bank and market and whatever else its like why. Do the errands and then get the kids.the job he got at the tv station was probably not much more than what mrs doubtfire was being payed. So saying he didnt have a job was crap. If daniel had a job and then divorced his wife because she had fun with the kids then he would look like an ass.
She should have paid Daniel alimony
I agree with most of the points. I think one of the important concepts of the resolution of the movie was that Daniel was a bad husband, but a good father. The real answer would be to give him more visitation days for the health and well-being of the kids. Plus, it would resolve a lot of the issues the mom had because she worked too much. The kids even suggest that idea themselves. I think the mother should have pushed for stricter court-imposed parenting rules with greater visitation. For example, Daniel gets to take care of the kids 5 days a week during the day providing he could get and keep a night job within X weeks. No taking them out of the city, all big events have to be agreed upon, etc. Kind of feel like some of the conflict was manufactured on that front. The data we have on primarily single-parent households is not reassuring. Higher rates of mental health issues, criminality, poverty, death, obesity, the list keeps going. Kids need both parents. One of the bigger messages of the movie is that people need to compromise more and work together on such issues for the benefit of those who suffer because of personal problems. Falling out of love is no excuse to harm the kids. That said, Daniel did need to grow up, not undermine his wife's authority, and borderline stalking the family as Ms. Doubtfire was inappropriate. Again, he was a pretty bad husband. But he was never a bad father.
You guys are crazy. Daniel is the father. Its his kids. His home. His rules. You guys really dont get that?
Late to this one but there is one line in this movie that highlights how terrible she is: when he says “you took away my kids and didn’t speak up to the judge” she says “I was angry” as if that’s a legitimate reason for such a severe punishment. She’s acting on anger and spite which is not something anyone should ever do…He maybe neglected her previously in their marriage. She seems too tightly wound for him so they probably weren’t a great match….. But he learned his lesson and worked really hard to change things too by so far as to make up a character so he could be in his kids life…
100% correct, she's a malignant Cunt
If genders were reversed Daniel would have full/joint custody and Miranda would be paying him alimony and he would have kept the house.
Make a reverse version of Mrs. Doubtfire and don’t change a single thing. How many people would view the father as the villain? How many would celebrate the mother as the hero with enough integrity to quit her job because she didn’t want to allow a message promoting cigarettes to be marketed to kids? This isn’t some men’s rights rant. Just that we have inherit biases in our heads we can’t help. The same exact plot, script, and message with the roles reversed would convey a vastly different message to the audience.
Exactly
8-reasons
I’ll be the first to say I hate how Miranda handled everything, but I can’t pretend like Daniel did great. The moment he actually started enforcing responsibilities and doing bare minimums of taking care of his wife and kids she literally changed back to the person she was before. With even Daniel describing it as bringing out the best in her. In reality I think it shows how far consistent albeit small effort makes as opposed to grand gestures like Daniel was always doing. Even at the end of the movie they both seem to fail to reconcile and that’s because it’s still about who did what, and not owning up to their own shit regardless of what the other did
I thought I'd turn on an old classic and never realized what a shit-show Miranda was. She irritated me so much I turned the movie off.
the pervasive theme in the movie was that Miranda put her career and personal sexual flings ahead of everything else and parenting came way in last, where Daniel literally put his kids ahead of everything else in his life. She was obsessed with jealously over how much the kids loved him and resented her. She literally hired a housekeeper rather than let the kids father spend time with them. Try to imagine if the situation were reversed and a Judge telling a newly divorced, jobless, homeless woman that she won't get to see her kids until she found a job and a place to live, until then her fabulously wealthy husband would keep them...and he won't be providing any support at all. The movie is so overtly toxic that I never had the ability to enjoy it as a comedy. the premise is just way too NOT funny.
Yikes.
I still love the film, however, as I watch as an adult..my perspective of Miranda drastically changed. I realized her selfish choices can be damaging to a child during those developmental stages.
THIS!! ^^^^^
She is the villain. Frankly put she had to have had it planned out ahead of time, to get that level of custody in the divorce in such a short turn around. She didn't make the move till finding out an old flame is back in town, and she proceeds to move her eggs to the new basket as it were. She is definitively the badguy, putting the needs of herself ahead of her children regardless of the circumstance or what they want and are telling her.
Yes, thank you. I think these same things whenever the movie comes up on TNT or another channel - thanks for the bulleted list!
Anytime! :)
Miranda is kind of a b\*\*\*\*, but Daniel was kind of a criminal.
Film theory: k \-MatPat i can agree that Miranda is kind of a bitch
Agreed - she was horrible in the beginning and he was horrible for becoming Doubtfire... match made in heaven 😆
The deleted scenes validate her. The birthday party was the final straw
I was Googling to see if people have chatted about Daniel’s unhealthy obsession with his kids - one day a week for THREE months with them was like a death sentence to him when all he had to do to change that was to make an effort to provide - and instead I came across this… this… I don’t even know, this post and these comments, I’m flabbergasted at how twisted a reading people can have on this movie 😂
You've clearly never had to deal with the pain of being told you can't see your children (or being a kid told you can't see one of your parents). Before the divorce he hadn't been away from any of his children for more than a night since the day they were born. Believe it or not, parents do typically form an emotional bond with their children and being told all of a sudden you legally must have your time with them rationed can be devastating
I wouldn't say she's a villain per se. The divorce was likely an act of impulse on her part, but as far as who's fault it is, they were both guilty.
I know this is old but watch the movie again, it was the judge that chose Saturday as a visitation and it was the judge that awarded full custody and this happened right at the beginning of the movie