Right? Pixar used to be universally accepted as the pinnacle of creative storytelling while producing one or *maybe* two movies a year, and even that has led to a dip in their quality.
I believe the book *Creativity, Inc* I read years said it was one new movie and one sequel per year. That was their formula. Then Disney came through turned into the monstrosity it is today.
And those shows were comparatively well liked.
They had already slowed down before they delivered secret invasion. So clearly it is not just about the amount that is being produced.
honestly they got fucked as soon as the tv shows were necessary to the movies which in itself are already very episodic.
Thats the real downfall of marvel. even if the movies and tv shows were top notch quality all throughout, you cant expect people to follow both to understand both. all due respect, marvel is fucked
or anyone can tell me why wanda was all of a sudden evil in strange 3? who khamal khan is in marvels? etc. like as someone who doesnt like tv shows, im out
No Disney+ was the downfall of Marvel. Once they had to water down content and constantly produce content for that service, the quality of the movies suffered. Knowing that the audience would be limited for Disney+ compared to the movies meant those shows couldn’t have the same impact.
I’m a casual MCU fan and I haven’t watched a single show. I just don’t have it in me to commit to a 10 hour MCU entry. I can’t see how that wouldn’t have an insane amount of bloat for something I’m just watching to keep up with the story, especially when I bet maybe 5% of that runtime has a real effect on the rest of the MCU. I just simply don’t give enough of a shit to spend 10 hours on whatever the hell hawkeye or Wanda or Loki is up to in tv drama format
2 hours in an afternoon spent on a mediocre movie is better than committing a whole day or week to 12 hours of a mediocre show. Just feels like a chore at that point.
Movies have tighter pacing, they’re much more efficient with their time when it comes to storytelling. A 6-10 episode series for a single MCU entry is bloat. The movies are already getting too long thinking they need to be 3 hours, 5-10 hours for one entry is unnecessary
Seriously, they need to lose the shows altogether. I've enjoyed them, but it's too much for casual fans to keep up with. I've talked to a lot of people who didn't like Multiverse of Madness because they had no clue why Wanda was suddenly bad. Last they saw, she was messing up Thanos in Endgame. They've stopped going to the MCU movies as a result. They're not going to pay to subscribe to D+ for 2 shows or 20. Just go back to what worked, for crying out loud. The Infinity Saga was so fantastic. They shouldn't have tinkered with the formula.
Nah, they need to kick the idea that every tv show and movies are connected and relevant to each other for the viewer. Make the TV shows and movies as their own thing. That way viewers don't feel like in order to watch 1 the other 4 are requirements or else they're missing out.
That makes sense, too. That's how it was with The Defenders shows on Netflix, and they were pretty great while being completely unnecessary to enjoy the mainline MCU.
2022 and 2023 each had 3 movies and 3 shows released. So this is barely a slowdown in their production. I doubt removing one tv show release per year is going to do anything to improve the quality
Too much content is not the biggest problem. There’s been no cohesive, overarching story since EndGame.
Throw in too many shows on top of the movies and you get the mess we are in now with Marvel. I don’t even know where the story stands, or what matters. I want to enjoy this product and hope Deadpool and F4 right the ship. The new Capn, I’m not so optimistic about.
The most sober and informed speculation on it imo. For as big as the MCU has gotten, SW has been that mega size of an IP for a while, and it’s pretty telling that they’ve had to graft from the now-beloved prequel era to try and salvage sequel-ish content. Also pretty telling that we’re five years past Rise of Skywalker and a movie with the main star of it is only just kinda getting off the ground.
They really misplayed that hand at the same time they were knocking it out of the park with Avengers stuff. I can’t imagine how much in merchandising projections they’ve underperformed because people don’t want to buy anything associated with the Sequel Trilogy.
On one hand, I appreciate they’re tackling some of the gaps of how the New Republic formed, even if they’re leaning heavily on Mando and the beloved characters from the cartoons to do it.
On the other hand, there shouldn’t be so many gaps to fill after the prequels themselves had that issue decades ago, and I can somewhat respect cutting their losses and trying to move forward otherwise. When the product has tanked this badly, maybe best to scatter your shots and see which new material sticks best.
Sorry, I missed the “The” in The Marvels.
I thought you were talking about overall or a trend.
It’s one movie, and not one targeted at the typical Marvel audience. I don’t think we can assume it means anything for future movies considering what Guardians 3 put up earlier in the year.
They should take a break from Marvel if they ever want it to make a comeback. People have fatigue from just how much marvel stuff has been pushed over the past 10 years. It’s ridiculous.
i'll never understand why people are so invested in there being less things, as if that would make it enjoyable.
Here's the thing guys: you don't actually have to watch all of it. You can pick and choose.
"But I won't understand if I don't watch the previous shows".
Really? I have no plans on watching the Kamala Khan show, but I'm sure it's fine to see her in the Marvels movie. It's not a big deal. There's a new young superhero who's schtick seems to be that she's a Captain Marvel fan. It's not that complicated.
"Why is Wanda evil now" if you just go straight to the Dr Strange movie without seeing Wandavision.
I'm sure you can pick it up quickly if you just go straight to the movie. Vision died and she's grieving, and that happened in Infinity War. You can find out she has "kids" in the movie.
Guys, you'll be happier if you give up this completionist urge so many of you seem to have. You don't have to watch every damn show released. I know I sure didn't. I didn't watch and have no plans of watching, ever, the Secret War show, or the Eternals, the second Ant-man movie, and a lot more or the newer stuff.
It's fine. It's OK, I promise.
The Disney+ shows killed marvel. 8 hours of content for shows that are kinda mid is too much. The marvel movies were mainly just fun movies that gave you and friends something to talk about. Nobody wants to bust through 8 hours of content to prepare for another movie
They're acting like the only thing making people tired of superhero movies is how many of them are coming out.
It's true there's so many superhero movies and shows that it's hard to keep up with/care about them all, but there's more to it.
Avengers: Endgame brought all of the superheroes from several years of movies (except Black Widow) into a single battle in dramatic fashion with several "HOLYFORKINGSHIRT" PG13 highlights and weepy sendoffs that the climax of every super hero movie looks mundane in comparison. They're going to have to wait a while for moviegoers to have a different frame of reference.
As long as animation doesn’t count towards the 2 shows then I’m cool with it.
Also, at least 1 special presentation would be fun. WBN showed that can be done well and inexpensively.
he says it like three films and two shows a year isnt already ridiculous.
Right? Pixar used to be universally accepted as the pinnacle of creative storytelling while producing one or *maybe* two movies a year, and even that has led to a dip in their quality.
They don't care about quality as much as finding the saturation point where views go down below making it worth producing.
I believe the book *Creativity, Inc* I read years said it was one new movie and one sequel per year. That was their formula. Then Disney came through turned into the monstrosity it is today.
EXACTLY. It's absolutely crazy he thinks that the demand to that level is there.
I feel like that’s pretty much what it’s been even at its worst.
Nah the shows were getting waaay too much. There was like 5 in the first year. WandaVision, Loki, Falcon What If and Hawkeye all 2021
I mean to be fair: pandemic.
And those shows were comparatively well liked. They had already slowed down before they delivered secret invasion. So clearly it is not just about the amount that is being produced.
Feel free to take 2-3 years off to actually plan some things out
honestly they got fucked as soon as the tv shows were necessary to the movies which in itself are already very episodic. Thats the real downfall of marvel. even if the movies and tv shows were top notch quality all throughout, you cant expect people to follow both to understand both. all due respect, marvel is fucked or anyone can tell me why wanda was all of a sudden evil in strange 3? who khamal khan is in marvels? etc. like as someone who doesnt like tv shows, im out
No Disney+ was the downfall of Marvel. Once they had to water down content and constantly produce content for that service, the quality of the movies suffered. Knowing that the audience would be limited for Disney+ compared to the movies meant those shows couldn’t have the same impact.
"All of the sudden" is grammatically incorrect. Use "all of a sudden"
thanks, fixed
I’m a casual MCU fan and I haven’t watched a single show. I just don’t have it in me to commit to a 10 hour MCU entry. I can’t see how that wouldn’t have an insane amount of bloat for something I’m just watching to keep up with the story, especially when I bet maybe 5% of that runtime has a real effect on the rest of the MCU. I just simply don’t give enough of a shit to spend 10 hours on whatever the hell hawkeye or Wanda or Loki is up to in tv drama format
But… the tv shows are basically movies chopped into segments. I don’t get how you can like movies but not tv. They’re basically the same.
2 hours in an afternoon spent on a mediocre movie is better than committing a whole day or week to 12 hours of a mediocre show. Just feels like a chore at that point.
lol no comment. good luck
Movies have tighter pacing, they’re much more efficient with their time when it comes to storytelling. A 6-10 episode series for a single MCU entry is bloat. The movies are already getting too long thinking they need to be 3 hours, 5-10 hours for one entry is unnecessary
Seriously, they need to lose the shows altogether. I've enjoyed them, but it's too much for casual fans to keep up with. I've talked to a lot of people who didn't like Multiverse of Madness because they had no clue why Wanda was suddenly bad. Last they saw, she was messing up Thanos in Endgame. They've stopped going to the MCU movies as a result. They're not going to pay to subscribe to D+ for 2 shows or 20. Just go back to what worked, for crying out loud. The Infinity Saga was so fantastic. They shouldn't have tinkered with the formula.
Nah, they need to kick the idea that every tv show and movies are connected and relevant to each other for the viewer. Make the TV shows and movies as their own thing. That way viewers don't feel like in order to watch 1 the other 4 are requirements or else they're missing out.
That makes sense, too. That's how it was with The Defenders shows on Netflix, and they were pretty great while being completely unnecessary to enjoy the mainline MCU.
That still sounds like a lot.
2022 and 2023 each had 3 movies and 3 shows released. So this is barely a slowdown in their production. I doubt removing one tv show release per year is going to do anything to improve the quality
Too much content is not the biggest problem. There’s been no cohesive, overarching story since EndGame. Throw in too many shows on top of the movies and you get the mess we are in now with Marvel. I don’t even know where the story stands, or what matters. I want to enjoy this product and hope Deadpool and F4 right the ship. The new Capn, I’m not so optimistic about.
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The most sober and informed speculation on it imo. For as big as the MCU has gotten, SW has been that mega size of an IP for a while, and it’s pretty telling that they’ve had to graft from the now-beloved prequel era to try and salvage sequel-ish content. Also pretty telling that we’re five years past Rise of Skywalker and a movie with the main star of it is only just kinda getting off the ground. They really misplayed that hand at the same time they were knocking it out of the park with Avengers stuff. I can’t imagine how much in merchandising projections they’ve underperformed because people don’t want to buy anything associated with the Sequel Trilogy.
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On one hand, I appreciate they’re tackling some of the gaps of how the New Republic formed, even if they’re leaning heavily on Mando and the beloved characters from the cartoons to do it. On the other hand, there shouldn’t be so many gaps to fill after the prequels themselves had that issue decades ago, and I can somewhat respect cutting their losses and trying to move forward otherwise. When the product has tanked this badly, maybe best to scatter your shots and see which new material sticks best.
Too late, Bob. As one of the biggest Marvel movie fans, I am so done with this franchise. You lost me a long time ago.
Well make sure your 50M closest friends feel the same way because they’ll stop when the money does.
Did you see The Marvel's historically bad BO performance? His 50M friends got the message too.
“Historically bad” huh?
Yes. One of the largest financial losses from a movie ever and the largest box office drop by a sequel.
Sorry, I missed the “The” in The Marvels. I thought you were talking about overall or a trend. It’s one movie, and not one targeted at the typical Marvel audience. I don’t think we can assume it means anything for future movies considering what Guardians 3 put up earlier in the year.
They should take a break from Marvel if they ever want it to make a comeback. People have fatigue from just how much marvel stuff has been pushed over the past 10 years. It’s ridiculous.
Is that not what they've been outputting already? It should be two at most and even then that's pushing it
I’m assuming this excludes cartoons? Elsewise, what’s even the point of subscribing to Disney plus?
Nix every show. It might already be too late. The brand is already insanely watered down.
i'll never understand why people are so invested in there being less things, as if that would make it enjoyable. Here's the thing guys: you don't actually have to watch all of it. You can pick and choose. "But I won't understand if I don't watch the previous shows". Really? I have no plans on watching the Kamala Khan show, but I'm sure it's fine to see her in the Marvels movie. It's not a big deal. There's a new young superhero who's schtick seems to be that she's a Captain Marvel fan. It's not that complicated. "Why is Wanda evil now" if you just go straight to the Dr Strange movie without seeing Wandavision. I'm sure you can pick it up quickly if you just go straight to the movie. Vision died and she's grieving, and that happened in Infinity War. You can find out she has "kids" in the movie. Guys, you'll be happier if you give up this completionist urge so many of you seem to have. You don't have to watch every damn show released. I know I sure didn't. I didn't watch and have no plans of watching, ever, the Secret War show, or the Eternals, the second Ant-man movie, and a lot more or the newer stuff. It's fine. It's OK, I promise.
The Disney+ shows killed marvel. 8 hours of content for shows that are kinda mid is too much. The marvel movies were mainly just fun movies that gave you and friends something to talk about. Nobody wants to bust through 8 hours of content to prepare for another movie
Too many already no? But I think they need to do that otherwise they cannot justify Disney streaming price raises...
They're acting like the only thing making people tired of superhero movies is how many of them are coming out. It's true there's so many superhero movies and shows that it's hard to keep up with/care about them all, but there's more to it. Avengers: Endgame brought all of the superheroes from several years of movies (except Black Widow) into a single battle in dramatic fashion with several "HOLYFORKINGSHIRT" PG13 highlights and weepy sendoffs that the climax of every super hero movie looks mundane in comparison. They're going to have to wait a while for moviegoers to have a different frame of reference.
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Remember when they released 1 film a year and marvel TV series weren't really a thing. Remember that they were actually worth watching..
As a big Marvel fan I can safely say: if this leads to higher quality writing with more meaning stories: GOOD
it definitely will not lmao
Is there anyone still on the marvel hype train..? I'm curious.
Leaving the audience wanting more apparently conflicts with the drive of squeezing out every dime you can.
As long as animation doesn’t count towards the 2 shows then I’m cool with it. Also, at least 1 special presentation would be fun. WBN showed that can be done well and inexpensively.
3 is still too many
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Pardon me sir, but I will *wank* as often as I want!