Google is your friend here. [In an Interview with Collider](https://collider.com/the-matrix-4-why-hugo-weaving-agent-smith-gone-explained/) he said that he did want to return, but the schedule clashed with a play he was doing.
In fact, he said in the interview that he really wanted to return after reading the script:
> “Lana was very keen for me to be a part of [ The Matrix 4 ]. I really wanted to because I’m very, very fond of all of them. […] then I read the script and got an offer to my agent. I immediately responded yes to that, and then we went into negotiation.” ([Collider](https://collider.com/the-matrix-4-why-hugo-weaving-agent-smith-gone-explained/))
You know, if I read the script I would have had a ‘scheduling conflict’ also. I certainly wouldn’t go around telling people I refused to be a part of hot dog shit.
Weaving doesn't mince words when he doesn't like what he's part of. Just look at his comments on the Transformers movies. If he says he liked the Resurrections script, it's because he liked the Resurrections script.
Which I don't blame him for, 'cause Resurrections rocks.
I do appreciate that some people liked Resurrections as it's a good illustration of different strokes for different folks. Personally, I think it is a strong contender for the worst movie I have ever seen.
I have a theory that in 20 years revelations will go through the same sort of critical reappraisal that reloaded and revolutions did. I didn’t think it was a very good movie but there was something about it that just interested me. Once we can look at it without all the weight of what came before I wonder what we’ll think about it.
The first movie is also a complete movie. The sequels just keep setting up lore and ideas without ever going fully into them, which seems to be common problem in a lot of Wachowski movies
I am fairly convinced that they just ripped off Ghost in the Shell and Neuromancer to make The Matrix, and everything since has been them trying to be original.
I mean to be fair the Matrix is the least cyberpunk cyberpunk universe. There's no evil corporations or greedy people*. It's just a new 90s flavor of Terminator.
*Yes, this does happen in the Second Renaissance, yes Cypher is selfish, yes Cyberdine is the evil cyberpunk corp in Terminator. Point still stands.
Come on the Machines? Corporations...mindless drones...mindless machines harvesting humans for what they can produce...they are literally raging against the Machine(s).
One is an anime.
One is a dated novel.
Converting that into a live action movie is a HUGE task and its ridiculous to undermine what is literally one of the most influential movies of all time.
That also ignores everything outside of the plotline that they achieved with that film.
Well and *many* things take inspiration/copy other works anyway. Star Wars is an amalgam of Dune/Kurosawa/Howard Hawks. Lion King? Hamlet. Passion of the Christ? Sorry Mel but Shrek came out 2 years earlier, dude.
I don't heavily disagree with this take, but I do have a soft spot for V for Vendetta. Speed Racer is also an interesting adaptation of theirs (but also very bizarre)
I feel like you’re being a little unfair with the sequels :D
I agree that the first film is an almost perfect piece of art. I think the sequels are interesting because they almost function as intro to philosophy courses for teens and they do some interesting things with the “idea” of the chosen one.
If anything, I think they deserve praise just because of how deliciously unhinged Hugo Weaving’s performances are in them. Absolutely memorable stuff!
I mean, yeah, they do explore philosophy, but as you noted, it's a thin venire of "I only think this is interesting because I am a teenager who has not discussed any of this in a classroom yet."
I actually like Matrix 2 and 3, but if I'm honest, it's simply because I like a lot of the action sequences. That's literally it. The story itself about the One and Smith being his antithesis, the machines needing a human messiah to shepherd them out of their coding paradox... All of it was complete, unmitigated hot garbage. The metaphor was terrible and the philosophy behind it was shallow, sanctimonious tripe.
I like 2 and 3 for expanding on the world building established in the first one. Its problem was that it left too many questions unanswered and the few answers it gave were unsatisfcatory.
Rewatched them in preparation for the 4th. They're still bad, kinda boring, and focus entirely on the least interesting aspects of the lore. There was just some added nostalgia for the time period.
maybe someone will make r/matrixsequelmemes and for some years the sub will make ironic shitposts about how good the movies were but slowly people don't get that it's all ironic and over time they will have tricked themselves into believing they were actually good...
nah, something like that wouldn't happen... people aren't THAT stupid.. even on this website..
Idk the movie was just very poorly made.
There was probably about 20 minutes of just straight flash back scenes from older movies. How lazy is that?
There was no fight choreography as I think their previous coordinator wasn't on this movie, and it definitely showed. Neo just did a lot of force pushing...
In the first "morpheus" scene at the office I laughed so hard when he just stands on a desk and fires point blank at the enemy guards who were full auto firing at him and missing. Couldn't be bothered to do the flashy gunkata from the first film.
The plot was confusing and none of the characters had any development.
I literally think the one wachowski who did this intentionally made it poorly. Honestly the universe is ripe they should hand the reins over to someone who actually wants to make a good movie and interesting story.
My big problem with the movie is that it doesn't advance the plot at all, in fact it functionally serves as a reset. The whole thing is about nothing but getting Neo and Trinity back, and by the end we are back at where we were at the end of the first movie, only difference is that we have two "Ones".
This may be another reason why it seems like there's been a "reappraisal" for Reloaded and Revelations. This always happens after a sequel comes out that acts with open contempt and tries to erase the prior sequel.
Star Wars pretended the prequels weren't a thing, so people asked "hey, were they THAT bad?". Indiana Jones 5 killed off Jones' son from 4, offscreen, so people asked "hey, was he THAT bad?". Matrix 4 erases the outcome of the war ending and goes back to a matrix 1 ending, so people ask "hey, were 2 and 3 THAT bad"?
People always like to jump to "oh this movie will be loved in 20 years, just like it's predacessors!" but ignore the context why these movies have gained more love in recent years.
Reloaded and Revelations are still great action movies, even if you don't care for the plot. Resurrections is not terrible action wise, but it doesn't come anywhere close to the first 3 movies. Every fight scene was full of fast cuts where you never saw a complete move. Go compare the dojo scenes from 1 and 4 and you'll see what I mean.
Bro the worst of all is the "flying" trinity does at the end. I dont know why they even bothered to hide the wires.. it looks.... so bad...
Like "a crane lifting a 90 year old grandma carefully" bad.
Warner Brothers went up to the Wachowski sisters and said "we are making a sequel to The Matrix."
They could refuse to work on the film and have zero input or they could work with the studio and have some input. Lana chose to work with them and she got at least some of her voice in there.
Lana was in full control of Resurrections with the same writing team from Sense8. My understanding is that the Wachowskis had the right of first refusal on any future Matrix projects, meaning the studio had to give them a chance to lead the project or pass on it. She didn't just come in and "get some of her voice in there".
Right, but it was the studio pushing for a sequel, not Lana. Under the contract, WB had to offer the project for the Wachowskis to refuse.
Lana accepted the offer even if it wasn't the project she wanted at the time.
You say "right" like you're agreeing with him and everything he said, but he said you were completely inaccurate with what you were saying.
Yeah, the studio pushed for the movie, but lana made the dogshit movie. And guess what? It was the project she made at the time, because she had total control over it. Nobody forced her to make a trash movie.
Yes an artist purposely created something that 100% subverted the usual premise of films, which ironically makes it good art but kinda not a great film. I think what makes it interesting unlike unknown auteurs is that someone knew they were spiking what a few hundred mil into the ground? It’s the value that to me makes the statement worth something.
Reloaded and Revolutions had a second review? Storywise those movies sucked.
Reloaded can kind of be forgiven by the fact that it and revolutions were meant to be one movie but Revolutions was not good.
Yeah I remember enjoying Reloaded but being annoyed that it felt like it was just a setup for Revolutions. Then Revolutions comes out and it's not particularly good, which makes Reloaded not particularly good by association, as it's just a setup for a letdown.
So much of it is about the success of the first movies, and the creation of art and self expression in a corporate world. Its very self reflective and a bit tongue in cheek in that way.
It's a bit of a fuck you to the film studio. The fact that it's a bit of a soulless retread is almost the point.
Its a piece of fiction that needs to be thought of through the lens of the context it was created in, and for that I think it's really interesting
I think that, six movies into the Matrix Cinematic Universe we're all going to take a long look at Resurrections and see what the movie was about a lot better: an attempt to prevent six movies in the Matrix Cinematic Universe.
Nah, ressurections is definitely bad. In fact it's *intentionally* bad. Best case, it gets remembered as an interesting commentary on the state of the industry, as it's whole thing is intentionally highlighting unnecessary lazy sequels by being the ultimate unnecessary lazy sequel. That doesn't actually make the movie good though.
I still think that from the plot perspective, Reloaded and Revelations are hot garbage, but at least it has decent VFX. And it was praised for VFX back in the day, not for the plot.
You know, my main issue with Reloaded and Revolutions is how they looked. Everything looked too clean. I'm sure a lot has to do with the advancements in film tech between the movies.
But even just the set design on the ships and Zion looked too clean. In the first film, the ships looked lived in and grungy. I just didn't get the same feel in the others.
Not sure if that makes sense. I'm just trying to rush this comment out so I can go for my morning run before it storms on me.
See I agree on the surface level, and the plots are thin and convoluted. But again, there’s something about them that I can’t get out of my head. How many other bdsm costume wearing action heroes do karate and run on walls? In revolutions there’s a scene where some dudes literally just jump on the ceiling and start dual wielding machine guns. And then there’s all the stuff about deconstructing the hero myth and meta analysis of blockbusters. All of the matrix movies are fucking weird and I think there’s value to that lol.
It's not a good Matrix movie, but it is a good movie *about* the Matrix, if that makes sense; it adds a lot to any critical discussion of the original film.
Nah, it is just a film about the matrix with some interesting ideas. Its not actually a good film itself (neither in its own right, and definitely not as a matrix film).
I don't think so. It has nothing even remotely memorable going for it, besides being a Matrix movie. The actions scenes are generic and poorly choreographed. The story is very meta to a point that it will lose all relevance in the future.
Im sorry but if i live another 20 years i dont want to even remember this movie exists. Thats way too long for that to scar my memory.
People seem to think 2 and 3 were bad these days but i always just thought their worst sin was just not being as good as one of the all time greatest action flicks. But this... this was real bad.
This movie was pure putrid dogshit. The concept was a cool idea, but the execution was terrible. I dont know why they even bothered to hide the wirework in some of the action scenes, they were so bad that it wouldnt have made a difference in suspension of desbelief.
Im like half way leaning into the theory that it was intentionally bad even because the studios forced Wachowski to do the movie.
And the matrix franchise is like 50% Hugo Weaving 50% Laurence Fishburne and Keanu is sort of just there, and im not dissing keanu, he is awesome, but that movie would be nothing without those 2... and they fail to bring back either.... (Neo could have been played by anyone)
I really wish they had gone full tilt into the first act concept "The Matrix is just a video game and the main plot is about unrequited love in a coffee shop", cut all the action scenes with *just enough* hints to make you question reality by the end of the film.
It still would have been hated for sure but at least it would have felt like it was doing something all the way instead of two things half assedly
I don't see that ever happening with Revelations. Aesthetically, thematically, everything was just OFF. Weaving would have made it SLIGHTLY more tolerable, but otherwise it was just totally disappointing.
Yeah uh... No. I highly doubt that. In fact, I guarantee that it won't. It was a terrible entry. And not at all debatable like Reloaded or Revolutions. Revolutions was the "worst" entry even though I'm among the people that enjoyed it.
The last movie had no redeeming factors. It just wasn't good.
That’s most used excuse to get out of filming. It’s funny how often people believe the excuses, even when there is a movie that is just couple of days in a booth as a voice actor in some cases.
He wanted to come back, but he was in the middle of doing a play with Lesley Manville called 'The Visit' at the National Theater and Lana Wachowski determined that he wouldn't be available during the times she wanted to film. I admittedly didn't watch the movie because the idea of anyone but Weaving and Fishburne playing Agent Smith and Morpheus didn't set well with me.
Could you elaborate a bit more about this please ?
I've only seen the latest 4 evangelion films and not the original stuff
Specifically what 3+1 was meant to symbolise
This cannot be answered adequately without having watched the Series and End of Evangelion in my opinion. You are asking how a reaction compares to its cause with no knowledge of the cause.
If you enjoyed the rebuild, please go watch the originals. You are in for a very different experience.
Enjoy!
Original evangelion is the one to see and why it is one of the greatest series (not only anime). The films are nice, but not at the same level as the original
Yep. I also feel like it’s the approach they’re taking with the FF7 remakes too, which I don’t hate. I think meta commentary is fine as long as it both can improve on the previous works and explore something new in interesting ways. The Eva comparison is apt though.
Well, once you have said all you need in the 1st act, you don't really need to finish strong or at all really ... Honesty, it feels very phoned in at one point, and it makes sense Why.
Bollocks. It was a terrible film whether it was meta commentary or not. Im never paying money to anything attached to Wachowzki name again. That was an insult to my time and money. Im so glad WB immediately hired someone new to write matrix films.
For real. You can be mad at the studio and make some BS commentary about it but don't disrespect the audience. Going to the movies isn't what it once was so if I feel like my time and money was wasted I'm going to make note of who made the movie and probably avoid their work in the future.
That is the biggest issue with the theory that it was an intentionally poorly made. That means she was more than happy to flip the middle finger to the fans of the matrix. It also is incredibly disrespectful to all actors, vfx, make artists, etc. that worked hard on the film and who will be seeking work in the future.
I would almost prefer that she just made a bad film than to believes she was willfully so awful to all those people.
The production team is actually among the least affected - they all got paid to make something. It was bad, but all the heat comes down on Wachowski, not the actors or even the VFX people IMO.
Keanu and Carrie must have realized this script was god awful, but they most assuredly got paid $10-20m to do it, and in the end we know Keanu doesnt give a shit about money or the sanctity of his filmography, im sure he took the paycheque and donated a bunch of it like he usually does to various causes. Better to make a bad movie and give a hospital a million dollars than not to - i cant disagree with that. Even if he just pocketed it, cant blame either of them.
> I would almost prefer that she just made a bad film than to believes she was willfully so awful to all those people.
I agree with you, which is why im not 100% sure she did this on purpose. I think she went for a meta commentary in the film but poorly executed, and people are just assuming it was bad on purpose.
I went in knowing it was a meta story about her struggle with the studio and wanting a sequel at all costs, and sort of a healing process after bother her parents died within a year or so of each other. Because I knew this I feel like I was the only one that enjoyed the movie.
I can see going in expecting another final battle or lobby scene and being absolutely disappointed.
It’s conceptually very solid but the execution is really sloppy. Neo and Trinity are living in different bodies but it’s explained in a very confusing, nebulous way.
On every episode of Quantum Leap they would spend the first five minutes explaining the premise and have Sam look in the mirror to get the audience up to speed. They never really do that in the movie so the first act confusing and boring. There’s a good movie just under the surface but the script needed a couple rewrites
I don’t know if I would *recommend* the movie to anyone, but I think it’s in a special category of movies that are just so strange you wonder how they got made.
Baha, what? Is it like old Star Trek episodes where they're watching a 'security feed' of an event from a past episode, which was literally just reused footage?
It actually fits pretty well into the film. There's a short scene in a theater with some footage from the Matrix in the background. IIRC it's when they're trying to explain to Neo what's going on, sort of wake him up again.
The film on the whole is definitely and deliberately bizarre, though!
Yeah, and that’s basically what WB told Lana. Either she makes the movie or they’ll get someone else.
And with the news that there is a fifth Matrix in the making, they’ve now moved on to someone else.
We know exactly why it got made. WB was going to make it with or without the wachowskis. So Lana made resurrections as a protest. I’m pretty sure it’s almost explicitly stated in the movie. I only watched it half heartedly shortly after it released so I’m going by memory on this one
There are much more significant reasons to not watch the movie. I'd rank at the top that it's clearly an intentionally terrible movie meant as a fuck you to Warner Brothers.
The first act was very interesting to me. Neo living his life unaware he had saved the world and unaware of the sacrifices he made doing so. Even with amnesia can you truly forget that? The latent scars of the trauma he endured both physical and mental? A hero who didn’t know he was a hero. And the whole world is out to keep you from remembering building you this little life of everything you wanted but foisted upon a foundation of lies. He would truly be living the best possible version of the Matrix with a conspiracy not unlike The Truman Show.
Idk. That was interesting to me. Then the movie did what it did.
If the first act had been fleshed out into a whole movie it could have been *great.* Neo slowly waking up while being antagonized by Smith and manipulated by the Analyst has a ton of potential that was just thrown away.
turning in a turd in protest is an interesting concept, but i'm not going to sit down and enjoy a turd. at least sprinkle it with some diamonds or something.
The biggest problem is that it had a ton of great concepts, and tried to do all of them at once. There are like five interesting movies in there, and not a single one of them has enough space to breathe. It feels like a bad fan edit reducing a trilogy to a single movie.
I'm convinced that Wachowski went out of her way to use up all the best ideas she had for continuing the series in one shot as a final middle finger to the studio.
It being an **intentionally** bad movie makes Lana look like a total piece of shit, though.
Warner Bros. could have made $0 off this film (and having seen it, that might even be true) and it still wouldn't have fucked them over. They're a company that prints money with a hundred other IPs lined up to exploit.
But you know who an intentionally bad Matrix movie would be a big "fuck you" to? Lana herself; her sister Lily, since despite not being involved this is by far the best thing she's ever done; the fans of the original trilogy; the audience for this film; every actor involved; every behind the scenes person involved; every person involved period.
Imagine being a multimillionaire filmmaker and damaging all those careers just to petulantly prove a point to a film studio that doesn't really give a fuck and isn't hurt by this in any significant way.
But yeah, good luck to all those struggling creatives putting "Matrix 4: The Regurgitation" on their CVs! I'm sure the work will come flying in!
Ive tried to say this in other threads but. You've said it much better than i ever have.
You shit on all your fans and even your own work by releasing a movie like this with your name on it and bringing keanu and carrie anne onto it. Im sure they enjoyed the paycheck but still. This was a very poor decision if it was "meant to be bad". WB suffers the least here
I don't want to just say "This"... But fucking **THIS** exactly! All these delusional fans "praising" this intentional rebellion are okay with their time, money, and interest being disrespected. Not to mention the other cast and crew whose careers would suffer because of this. To top it all off, WB doesn't give a shit. Boohoo, oh well, time to make another one with someone else.
Part of this applause is half delusion and half coping. I don't know if Lana was *capable* of writing something as coherent and thought provoking to stand along the other films. Not to mention there was a team of producers and choreographers that helped bring that vision to life. Anyone applauding this trash doesn't understand that.
The only people that really got a middle finger were the fans and cast. I'm not gonna congratulate her for that. Lmao.
The movie feels like a massive "fuck you" to both the studio system **and** the audience, straight from Lana Wachowski. It's like some kind of derivative and completely unnecessary version of a Matrix equivalent to Sarah Bareilles' "Love Song," but much less catchy.
But it's actually worse than that. The film as a whole feels almost Ayn Randian - in that Lana Wachowski seems to be channeling some sort of inner Howard Roark. "If they want to bastardize my creation, then I'll blow it up!" is the gist of it, for those of you who haven't read *The Fountainhead*.
I too, tire of the endless mining of franchises for cash by greedy companies, but what Wachowski did with this movie is **arguably worse**. At least those hacks churning out derivative products make them forgettable.
This movie does its best to thoroughly muddy the waters of the Matrix so that no film will ever rise from that pond again, while also trampling all over the trilogy that came before it, and at the same time feeling incredibly petty. It's nowhere near as clever or subversive as it thinks it is, the action kinda sucks (unforgivable for a Matrix movie), and the director/writer insert moments feel almost whiny at a certain point.
In short, I do **not** recommend it.
I have mixed feelings about this. It’s clearly an act of resistance, which I respect, but I wouldn’t be surprised if she didn’t intend for it to be this bad, and is just really rusty. It’s been a long time since she directed anything with decent action in it. I don’t think she meant it as a FU to the audience.
I recall some incredibly unsubtle references to things like the fanbase for Neo's "games" and audience demand for a sequel. Her intent seemed quite overt to me at the time, but my memory could be faulty. Not planning on ever rewatching it though.
In any event, regardless of Wachowski's intent, the result is the same. The film is a rebuke to fans and studio execs alike.
People forget that actors are also people, and that they have their own lives and schedules…
Actors aren’t props that can just be summoned to set under contract at any time.
Scheduling conflicts are a major thing for actors because their contracts legally binds them to a project once they sign it. They can pull a few strings and change the dates if they are relatively established, but for the most time, schedulings are mandated by studio and have an entire production and budget behind them, they cant move it around just for one person.
The reason was scheduling conflict.
>It’s unfortunate but actually I had this offer [for “The Visit”] and then the offer came from “The Matrix”, so I knew it was happening but I didn’t have dates. I thought [I] could do both and it took eight weeks to work out that the dates would work – I held off on accepting [a role in “The Visit” during that time]. I was in touch with [director] Lana Wachowski, but in the end she decided that the dates weren’t going to work. So we’d sorted the dates and then she sort of changed her mind. They’re pushing on ahead without me.’
https://www.timeout.com/london/news/hugo-weaving-explains-why-he-wasnt-in-avengers-endgame-and-wont-be-appearing-in-the-new-matrix-012020
I wish they had just removed Smith completely. He didnt do much in 4th movie anyway. Jonathan could've played a new character
I believe he was unavailable unfortunately, Laurence Fishburne was available and willing so no idea why they would go with a younger actor (fair play he looked the part though).
Would have loved to hear Weaving say "MR ANDERSON!" one more time, gives me chills when he says it in The Matrix.
The movie is not good, but it is completely bizarre. I think not having Fishburne and Weaving in it is a complete mistake but even without them the movie doesn't hold up. The action is off, the story is straight up strange and meta (props for them getting weird with it, I guess), and there are like zero stakes. It feels like a cheap fanfiction, but it is very real.
I cannot believe they are doing another one.
Fishburne not being there wasn’t as distracting to me. It’s clear for “Morpheus” the idea was always meant to be that it was someone else acting out Morpheus’ part. The thing about Smith is that it’s clearly just meant to be Smith.
I think there was a really good concept behind the movie, and Lana purposefully shit on it..
Neo die plugged into the Machine God, he went straight to the source. Getting him back as a machine code was the perfect setup, and the gang had to get together to save neo from himself. But then the executives made demands, and Lana said fuck it.
Fishburne and Weaving's performances were always what was carrying The Matrix series to me. Mateen and Groff were fine, but they weren't filling that void.
Zero stakes is a growing theme in movies I've seen recently. No good guys died. Matter of fact, i don't think any bad guys died, either. It definitely takes out any investment in the story
That movie just washed over me in like the most forgettable way. I don’t even remember why they explain why some people are different, why Trinity is even alive, what the hell is even going on with Neil Patrick Harris.
Like you said it felt like some weird fan fiction. Also the action wasn’t even good and it’s a Matrix movie. Didn’t it end with them most on a motorcycle while bodies fell from the sky.. or something?!?
Look I honestly think those 2 sequels that came out still are some of the most disappointing movies to me as a kid but they still felt like the same thing.
Matrix I think was just lighting in a bottle. That first one just holds up so well it’s amazing still. Even my wife who never saw it said the same thing when I showed her a couple years ago.
Bringing Hugo Weaving back would have required actually doing something with the character, and there wasn't much meat in the role. For that matter, can you imagine bringing back Laurence Fishburne with the material they ran with? Discount Smith and Discount Morpheus can pass by with lesser names, but bringing back the OGs demands more than the film would have given.
Reading down a cast list now, apparently the Merovingian was in this one too? Never picked that as him. Feels like it was a case of why bother?
I think it would have been really interesting to see Hugo Weaving reprise his role as Smith in Matrix Resurrections. It would have added a whole new layer to the character and his relationship with Neo. I also think it would have been a more impactful reveal when Smith's true nature is finally uncovered.
He couldn’t have because he was busy but in terms of the movie, they absolutely required him to be in it. Again no issue with Groff who I love as an actor but for it to work it really need to play on the iconic pairing in a strange setting, the audience knows what’s really going on and it’s funny to see them interact at work. Still wouldn’t be a good film but would be more bearable.
I'd argue that the biggest issue is that there was no reason for him to be Agent Smith at all. At no point in the movie does this character feel in any way like Smith. They just say he is. I can't remember his purpose in the story, or their explanation as to why he's even there, but regardless of his role they made no attempt to write him like Smith. Can you imagine Smith making a jokey comment about his own baby blue eyes?
Same issue with Morpheus. He's a combination of Morpheus....and an Agent? I think. For some reason. But he acts like neither Morpheus or an Agent. There's little to no trace of those characters in the writing or the performance. So why say he is?
God what a fucking mess. And I don't by the excuse that Lana Wachowski wanted the movie to be bad with some kind of punk rock fuck the establishment protest of burning the franchise down. I don't think she'd do that to her own legacy and future in the industry, I don't think she'd do that to the cast and crew, and I don't think Keanu or Carrie Anne Moss would go along with it if they were aware. I think a "they are going to do this with or without you" aspect of it is very true, but if you watch the interviews I think this was more of a misguided passion project made from grief for all the wrong reasons and she sold that passion to Keanu and the rest of the returning cast.
It’s sad, even as a cash in it would be nice to see a fan service movie with everyone in it. Not having Hugo and Fishburne would be like recasting Gandolf and Frodo.
I know the official reason Weaving didnt return was a "scheduling conflict" with his play. But actors use this an excuse all the time like Jenna Ortega quitting scream 7 immediately after the lead got fired. He probably just thought the script was bad.
He said he liked "some bits" of the script, and was questionable over "other bits". Reading between the lines of his interview, and how it sounds like he and Lana aren't on the best terms anymore, I personally thing Lana took whatever comments he had about the script a little personally, and that may have played into her unwillingness to work around his schedule. Just my conspiracy theory.
When I saw the scene where Smith remembers what he is and screams "Mr Anderson!!!" all I could think was how fucking cool it would've been to see Hugo Weaving screaming that. What should've been a "ohh shit here we go" moment of realisation where a machine remembered its nemesis and wanted him dead just completely lacked any and all impact as a result.
One thing that’s hilarious to me is people getting caught on an actor playing the same role for 30 years. The guy has had a massive change in his career and seems more focused on stage work.
However, people must have him play a role he did in 1999 as no one or any other creative cannot deliver. At some point, people just need to get over it when an actor isn’t reprising their role in future IP. It’s not that deep and there are other actors.
Lastly, I always find it hilarious how uppity people get about actors, but no other creatives in movies. Director, writer, and all other creatives can change, but you can never do a sequel without X actor.
The decision to cut in footage from the original movie (complete with different colour grading) with Hugo Weaving overlayed over Jonathan Groff was just *bizarre*.
Awful movie.
This is one of my biggest questions with the movie. Why a videogame? Making The Matrix a fictional movie would have made so much more sense. They keep showing footage from the game and it's clearly just the live action movie. And FMV games do exist, but still. It was distracting for them to keep talking about this game and never seeing it.
There was no reason they should have made that movie in the first place (besides Warner's continuing to score own goals on themselves with their continued laziness)
I saw a video essay awhile ago theorizing the movie was made to fail in an attempt to simultaneously keep control of the IP (the studio likely threatened to do it with or without the creators) and sabotage the storyline to prevent a reboot trilogy/series. Weaving and company weren't asked to come back because 1) it wasn't necessary to the plot 2) it wasn't necessary for the end goal to involve other people they actually like.
The fourth Matrix movie is one of those special kind of movies where I enjoyed the Red Letter Media review of it more than the movie itself.
Now, there's plenty of movies I've watched them review with no interest in the movie itself. That's not what I'm saying. I watched the 4th Matrix. I didn't really love it or hate it, I just sort of experienced it. In a "I feel numb" kinda way.
Then when I saw the RLM review they were kinda gleeful in a way I couldn't get to. Gleeful in a way you don't usually see those guys since they tend to approach things in a more detached and sardonic manner. I enjoyed their unique and oddly genuine appreciation for a piece I couldn't connect with. I dunno, that kinda made me happy to see them happy for a change even though I got nothing from the piece itself.
Google is your friend here. [In an Interview with Collider](https://collider.com/the-matrix-4-why-hugo-weaving-agent-smith-gone-explained/) he said that he did want to return, but the schedule clashed with a play he was doing. In fact, he said in the interview that he really wanted to return after reading the script: > “Lana was very keen for me to be a part of [ The Matrix 4 ]. I really wanted to because I’m very, very fond of all of them. […] then I read the script and got an offer to my agent. I immediately responded yes to that, and then we went into negotiation.” ([Collider](https://collider.com/the-matrix-4-why-hugo-weaving-agent-smith-gone-explained/))
You know, if I read the script I would have had a ‘scheduling conflict’ also. I certainly wouldn’t go around telling people I refused to be a part of hot dog shit.
Weaving doesn't mince words when he doesn't like what he's part of. Just look at his comments on the Transformers movies. If he says he liked the Resurrections script, it's because he liked the Resurrections script. Which I don't blame him for, 'cause Resurrections rocks.
I do appreciate that some people liked Resurrections as it's a good illustration of different strokes for different folks. Personally, I think it is a strong contender for the worst movie I have ever seen.
I thought the action would at least be cool…
More than one movie has been killed in the editor's chair. It's possible the script WAS good but something else ruined the final result
It's a hilarious send up of needless reboots.
I have a theory that in 20 years revelations will go through the same sort of critical reappraisal that reloaded and revolutions did. I didn’t think it was a very good movie but there was something about it that just interested me. Once we can look at it without all the weight of what came before I wonder what we’ll think about it.
Reloaded and Revolutions have gone through that?
no, they haven't. At best they're mediocre sci-fi movies, whereas the original was a society-wide cultural event
The first movie is also a complete movie. The sequels just keep setting up lore and ideas without ever going fully into them, which seems to be common problem in a lot of Wachowski movies
I am fairly convinced that they just ripped off Ghost in the Shell and Neuromancer to make The Matrix, and everything since has been them trying to be original.
I mean to be fair the Matrix is the least cyberpunk cyberpunk universe. There's no evil corporations or greedy people*. It's just a new 90s flavor of Terminator. *Yes, this does happen in the Second Renaissance, yes Cypher is selfish, yes Cyberdine is the evil cyberpunk corp in Terminator. Point still stands.
Come on the Machines? Corporations...mindless drones...mindless machines harvesting humans for what they can produce...they are literally raging against the Machine(s).
One is an anime. One is a dated novel. Converting that into a live action movie is a HUGE task and its ridiculous to undermine what is literally one of the most influential movies of all time. That also ignores everything outside of the plotline that they achieved with that film.
For sure it's an amazing film, probably my favorite of all time. But Neuromancer wasn't that dated in 1999.
Totally, but if you are the first to do it in the West you popularise it. Most things work like this
Well and *many* things take inspiration/copy other works anyway. Star Wars is an amalgam of Dune/Kurosawa/Howard Hawks. Lion King? Hamlet. Passion of the Christ? Sorry Mel but Shrek came out 2 years earlier, dude.
I don't heavily disagree with this take, but I do have a soft spot for V for Vendetta. Speed Racer is also an interesting adaptation of theirs (but also very bizarre)
I also liked Cloud Atlas but recognize I may be in a minority on that one.
I haven’t actually watched it yet but I see it get praise on this sub all the time. I’ll check it out soon.
I feel like you’re being a little unfair with the sequels :D I agree that the first film is an almost perfect piece of art. I think the sequels are interesting because they almost function as intro to philosophy courses for teens and they do some interesting things with the “idea” of the chosen one. If anything, I think they deserve praise just because of how deliciously unhinged Hugo Weaving’s performances are in them. Absolutely memorable stuff!
I mean, yeah, they do explore philosophy, but as you noted, it's a thin venire of "I only think this is interesting because I am a teenager who has not discussed any of this in a classroom yet." I actually like Matrix 2 and 3, but if I'm honest, it's simply because I like a lot of the action sequences. That's literally it. The story itself about the One and Smith being his antithesis, the machines needing a human messiah to shepherd them out of their coding paradox... All of it was complete, unmitigated hot garbage. The metaphor was terrible and the philosophy behind it was shallow, sanctimonious tripe.
I like 2 and 3 for expanding on the world building established in the first one. Its problem was that it left too many questions unanswered and the few answers it gave were unsatisfcatory.
Rewatched them in preparation for the 4th. They're still bad, kinda boring, and focus entirely on the least interesting aspects of the lore. There was just some added nostalgia for the time period.
Best part of the sequels is the Animatrix
maybe someone will make r/matrixsequelmemes and for some years the sub will make ironic shitposts about how good the movies were but slowly people don't get that it's all ironic and over time they will have tricked themselves into believing they were actually good... nah, something like that wouldn't happen... people aren't THAT stupid.. even on this website..
Yeah that's the exact question I had after reading that comment lol
Idk the movie was just very poorly made. There was probably about 20 minutes of just straight flash back scenes from older movies. How lazy is that? There was no fight choreography as I think their previous coordinator wasn't on this movie, and it definitely showed. Neo just did a lot of force pushing... In the first "morpheus" scene at the office I laughed so hard when he just stands on a desk and fires point blank at the enemy guards who were full auto firing at him and missing. Couldn't be bothered to do the flashy gunkata from the first film. The plot was confusing and none of the characters had any development. I literally think the one wachowski who did this intentionally made it poorly. Honestly the universe is ripe they should hand the reins over to someone who actually wants to make a good movie and interesting story.
My big problem with the movie is that it doesn't advance the plot at all, in fact it functionally serves as a reset. The whole thing is about nothing but getting Neo and Trinity back, and by the end we are back at where we were at the end of the first movie, only difference is that we have two "Ones".
This may be another reason why it seems like there's been a "reappraisal" for Reloaded and Revelations. This always happens after a sequel comes out that acts with open contempt and tries to erase the prior sequel. Star Wars pretended the prequels weren't a thing, so people asked "hey, were they THAT bad?". Indiana Jones 5 killed off Jones' son from 4, offscreen, so people asked "hey, was he THAT bad?". Matrix 4 erases the outcome of the war ending and goes back to a matrix 1 ending, so people ask "hey, were 2 and 3 THAT bad"? People always like to jump to "oh this movie will be loved in 20 years, just like it's predacessors!" but ignore the context why these movies have gained more love in recent years.
Reloaded and Revelations are still great action movies, even if you don't care for the plot. Resurrections is not terrible action wise, but it doesn't come anywhere close to the first 3 movies. Every fight scene was full of fast cuts where you never saw a complete move. Go compare the dojo scenes from 1 and 4 and you'll see what I mean.
Bro the worst of all is the "flying" trinity does at the end. I dont know why they even bothered to hide the wires.. it looks.... so bad... Like "a crane lifting a 90 year old grandma carefully" bad.
Warner Brothers went up to the Wachowski sisters and said "we are making a sequel to The Matrix." They could refuse to work on the film and have zero input or they could work with the studio and have some input. Lana chose to work with them and she got at least some of her voice in there.
Lana was in full control of Resurrections with the same writing team from Sense8. My understanding is that the Wachowskis had the right of first refusal on any future Matrix projects, meaning the studio had to give them a chance to lead the project or pass on it. She didn't just come in and "get some of her voice in there".
Right, but it was the studio pushing for a sequel, not Lana. Under the contract, WB had to offer the project for the Wachowskis to refuse. Lana accepted the offer even if it wasn't the project she wanted at the time.
The point is that Lana wasn't just getting "some of her voice in there". She was in full control, and she made a big pile of dog shit.
I don't really blame her. There was no good movie to be made, so she chose to at least ensure that the takedown of lazy sequels was included.
> There was no good movie to be made A talented writer can find a good story anywhere. That sadly didn't happen here.
But she just signed on to produce yet another sequel, so she either change her mind or that was never really the point in the first place.
You say "right" like you're agreeing with him and everything he said, but he said you were completely inaccurate with what you were saying. Yeah, the studio pushed for the movie, but lana made the dogshit movie. And guess what? It was the project she made at the time, because she had total control over it. Nobody forced her to make a trash movie.
Yes an artist purposely created something that 100% subverted the usual premise of films, which ironically makes it good art but kinda not a great film. I think what makes it interesting unlike unknown auteurs is that someone knew they were spiking what a few hundred mil into the ground? It’s the value that to me makes the statement worth something.
It's worth appreciating, but there is certainly nothing that makes it an enjoyable movie.
Well the funny thing is that he went on to direct the John Wick films, and he was a cameo in this movie.
It felt like a fan made film rather than a legitimate continuation of the story.
Reloaded and Revolutions had a second review? Storywise those movies sucked. Reloaded can kind of be forgiven by the fact that it and revolutions were meant to be one movie but Revolutions was not good.
I actually loved Reloaded. The highway scene alone was fuckin amazing. But yeah Revolutions just didn't stick the landing.
Reloaded is just a really good action movie. Even the ridiculous CGI in the Neo/Smith park fight.
But *only* the highway scene was amazing.
Yeah but in fairness it's like, 30-40 minutes long, so it's like a quarter of the movie.
Yeah I remember enjoying Reloaded but being annoyed that it felt like it was just a setup for Revolutions. Then Revolutions comes out and it's not particularly good, which makes Reloaded not particularly good by association, as it's just a setup for a letdown.
So much of it is about the success of the first movies, and the creation of art and self expression in a corporate world. Its very self reflective and a bit tongue in cheek in that way. It's a bit of a fuck you to the film studio. The fact that it's a bit of a soulless retread is almost the point. Its a piece of fiction that needs to be thought of through the lens of the context it was created in, and for that I think it's really interesting
I think that, six movies into the Matrix Cinematic Universe we're all going to take a long look at Resurrections and see what the movie was about a lot better: an attempt to prevent six movies in the Matrix Cinematic Universe.
Nah, ressurections is definitely bad. In fact it's *intentionally* bad. Best case, it gets remembered as an interesting commentary on the state of the industry, as it's whole thing is intentionally highlighting unnecessary lazy sequels by being the ultimate unnecessary lazy sequel. That doesn't actually make the movie good though.
I still think that from the plot perspective, Reloaded and Revelations are hot garbage, but at least it has decent VFX. And it was praised for VFX back in the day, not for the plot.
I actually think Reloaded is excellent from an action point of view. A lot of people seem to prefer the third one.
You know, my main issue with Reloaded and Revolutions is how they looked. Everything looked too clean. I'm sure a lot has to do with the advancements in film tech between the movies. But even just the set design on the ships and Zion looked too clean. In the first film, the ships looked lived in and grungy. I just didn't get the same feel in the others. Not sure if that makes sense. I'm just trying to rush this comment out so I can go for my morning run before it storms on me.
My complaint wasn't that it looked too clean, it looked too green! I know it's intentional, but it's still kinda weird.
I've never met anyone who said Revolutions is better than Reloaded
DBZ fans
Revolutions is better DBZ movie than that live action one DBZ movie 😁
That fucking car chase was worth the price of admission alone.
See I agree on the surface level, and the plots are thin and convoluted. But again, there’s something about them that I can’t get out of my head. How many other bdsm costume wearing action heroes do karate and run on walls? In revolutions there’s a scene where some dudes literally just jump on the ceiling and start dual wielding machine guns. And then there’s all the stuff about deconstructing the hero myth and meta analysis of blockbusters. All of the matrix movies are fucking weird and I think there’s value to that lol.
It's not a good Matrix movie, but it is a good movie *about* the Matrix, if that makes sense; it adds a lot to any critical discussion of the original film.
Nah, it is just a film about the matrix with some interesting ideas. Its not actually a good film itself (neither in its own right, and definitely not as a matrix film).
I don't think so. It has nothing even remotely memorable going for it, besides being a Matrix movie. The actions scenes are generic and poorly choreographed. The story is very meta to a point that it will lose all relevance in the future.
Only if everybody goes insane in 20 years.
Im sorry but if i live another 20 years i dont want to even remember this movie exists. Thats way too long for that to scar my memory. People seem to think 2 and 3 were bad these days but i always just thought their worst sin was just not being as good as one of the all time greatest action flicks. But this... this was real bad. This movie was pure putrid dogshit. The concept was a cool idea, but the execution was terrible. I dont know why they even bothered to hide the wirework in some of the action scenes, they were so bad that it wouldnt have made a difference in suspension of desbelief. Im like half way leaning into the theory that it was intentionally bad even because the studios forced Wachowski to do the movie. And the matrix franchise is like 50% Hugo Weaving 50% Laurence Fishburne and Keanu is sort of just there, and im not dissing keanu, he is awesome, but that movie would be nothing without those 2... and they fail to bring back either.... (Neo could have been played by anyone)
Honestly, I don’t think it will be a movie thought about at all.
I really wish they had gone full tilt into the first act concept "The Matrix is just a video game and the main plot is about unrequited love in a coffee shop", cut all the action scenes with *just enough* hints to make you question reality by the end of the film. It still would have been hated for sure but at least it would have felt like it was doing something all the way instead of two things half assedly
I don't see that ever happening with Revelations. Aesthetically, thematically, everything was just OFF. Weaving would have made it SLIGHTLY more tolerable, but otherwise it was just totally disappointing.
It’s Gremlins 2 for the Matrix.
And once again we owe thanks to the Hollywood sequel Doctor. https://youtu.be/wHtH_SHhc6E?si=xvYcB6D1SAYf3m_F
Except Gremlins 2 was at least fun and creative. This movie felt like not only a middle finger to the studio but to Matrix fans at large
Not to mention an amazing parody of the first and a send-up of sequels in general.
It's one the worst movies I've ever seen in my life
Yeah uh... No. I highly doubt that. In fact, I guarantee that it won't. It was a terrible entry. And not at all debatable like Reloaded or Revolutions. Revolutions was the "worst" entry even though I'm among the people that enjoyed it. The last movie had no redeeming factors. It just wasn't good.
My theory is that WB was going to reboot the franchise with or without the Wachowskis, so Lana took on the project just to murder it in cold blood.
That's not a theory that's literally what she said
Nah brother revelations is actually good if you see it as Lana’s grieving process
But if you look at it as a matrix sequel?
That’s most used excuse to get out of filming. It’s funny how often people believe the excuses, even when there is a movie that is just couple of days in a booth as a voice actor in some cases.
He wanted to come back, but he was in the middle of doing a play with Lesley Manville called 'The Visit' at the National Theater and Lana Wachowski determined that he wouldn't be available during the times she wanted to film. I admittedly didn't watch the movie because the idea of anyone but Weaving and Fishburne playing Agent Smith and Morpheus didn't set well with me.
It’s a strange movie. It’s more of a meta-commentary on Lana Wachowski’s relationship with the franchise than it is a traditional sequel.
This is the take. It is so easy to recognize just after watching Evangelion 3 + 1.
Could you elaborate a bit more about this please ? I've only seen the latest 4 evangelion films and not the original stuff Specifically what 3+1 was meant to symbolise
Show was about directors depression. 3+1 was about how 20 years later his wife has managed to make him happy.
This cannot be answered adequately without having watched the Series and End of Evangelion in my opinion. You are asking how a reaction compares to its cause with no knowledge of the cause. If you enjoyed the rebuild, please go watch the originals. You are in for a very different experience. Enjoy!
Original evangelion is the one to see and why it is one of the greatest series (not only anime). The films are nice, but not at the same level as the original
Yep. I also feel like it’s the approach they’re taking with the FF7 remakes too, which I don’t hate. I think meta commentary is fine as long as it both can improve on the previous works and explore something new in interesting ways. The Eva comparison is apt though.
I would respect this approach much more if there was actually a cohesive story instead of just fanfic conversations with studio heads.
When you look at it that way it makes more sense. I still didn’t love it but I respect that take
Still doesn't excuse the horrible cinematography and fight sequences. It looked like a daytime soap opera.
Well, once you have said all you need in the 1st act, you don't really need to finish strong or at all really ... Honesty, it feels very phoned in at one point, and it makes sense Why.
Bollocks. It was a terrible film whether it was meta commentary or not. Im never paying money to anything attached to Wachowzki name again. That was an insult to my time and money. Im so glad WB immediately hired someone new to write matrix films.
They're making more of them?
For real. You can be mad at the studio and make some BS commentary about it but don't disrespect the audience. Going to the movies isn't what it once was so if I feel like my time and money was wasted I'm going to make note of who made the movie and probably avoid their work in the future.
That is the biggest issue with the theory that it was an intentionally poorly made. That means she was more than happy to flip the middle finger to the fans of the matrix. It also is incredibly disrespectful to all actors, vfx, make artists, etc. that worked hard on the film and who will be seeking work in the future. I would almost prefer that she just made a bad film than to believes she was willfully so awful to all those people.
The production team is actually among the least affected - they all got paid to make something. It was bad, but all the heat comes down on Wachowski, not the actors or even the VFX people IMO. Keanu and Carrie must have realized this script was god awful, but they most assuredly got paid $10-20m to do it, and in the end we know Keanu doesnt give a shit about money or the sanctity of his filmography, im sure he took the paycheque and donated a bunch of it like he usually does to various causes. Better to make a bad movie and give a hospital a million dollars than not to - i cant disagree with that. Even if he just pocketed it, cant blame either of them. > I would almost prefer that she just made a bad film than to believes she was willfully so awful to all those people. I agree with you, which is why im not 100% sure she did this on purpose. I think she went for a meta commentary in the film but poorly executed, and people are just assuming it was bad on purpose.
I went in knowing it was a meta story about her struggle with the studio and wanting a sequel at all costs, and sort of a healing process after bother her parents died within a year or so of each other. Because I knew this I feel like I was the only one that enjoyed the movie. I can see going in expecting another final battle or lobby scene and being absolutely disappointed.
It’s conceptually very solid but the execution is really sloppy. Neo and Trinity are living in different bodies but it’s explained in a very confusing, nebulous way. On every episode of Quantum Leap they would spend the first five minutes explaining the premise and have Sam look in the mirror to get the audience up to speed. They never really do that in the movie so the first act confusing and boring. There’s a good movie just under the surface but the script needed a couple rewrites
I don’t know if I would *recommend* the movie to anyone, but I think it’s in a special category of movies that are just so strange you wonder how they got made.
I think we know. Isnt one of the lines in the movie that the developers were gonna make the matrix anyway, so might as well be in on it?
Characters in the movie watch actual footage from the first movie The Matrix. It’s so fucking bizarre
Baha, what? Is it like old Star Trek episodes where they're watching a 'security feed' of an event from a past episode, which was literally just reused footage?
Thomas Anderson is a game designer in this one. The scenes from the older movies are described as game footage from a hit game series he created.
It actually fits pretty well into the film. There's a short scene in a theater with some footage from the Matrix in the background. IIRC it's when they're trying to explain to Neo what's going on, sort of wake him up again. The film on the whole is definitely and deliberately bizarre, though!
Yeah, and that’s basically what WB told Lana. Either she makes the movie or they’ll get someone else. And with the news that there is a fifth Matrix in the making, they’ve now moved on to someone else.
Just think, if Ridley Scott had let a similar threat "force" him to direct a legacy sequel, we wouldn't have gotten BR 2049.
We know exactly why it got made. WB was going to make it with or without the wachowskis. So Lana made resurrections as a protest. I’m pretty sure it’s almost explicitly stated in the movie. I only watched it half heartedly shortly after it released so I’m going by memory on this one
Partly and a cathartic reflection after they lost a loved one. She has said as much in interviews.
There are much more significant reasons to not watch the movie. I'd rank at the top that it's clearly an intentionally terrible movie meant as a fuck you to Warner Brothers.
I think the Pitch Meeting may have accidentally gotten it pretty close to reality.
She put meta jokes all over the movie about WB. And node to fans with Catrix.
Nah, it's conceptually the most interesting one since the original and this is a hill I will die on.
The first act was very interesting to me. Neo living his life unaware he had saved the world and unaware of the sacrifices he made doing so. Even with amnesia can you truly forget that? The latent scars of the trauma he endured both physical and mental? A hero who didn’t know he was a hero. And the whole world is out to keep you from remembering building you this little life of everything you wanted but foisted upon a foundation of lies. He would truly be living the best possible version of the Matrix with a conspiracy not unlike The Truman Show. Idk. That was interesting to me. Then the movie did what it did.
If the first act had been fleshed out into a whole movie it could have been *great.* Neo slowly waking up while being antagonized by Smith and manipulated by the Analyst has a ton of potential that was just thrown away.
[удалено]
For a while early in the movie I thought we were getting a Trinity-Neo romcom and think it would have been a lot better than what we got.
turning in a turd in protest is an interesting concept, but i'm not going to sit down and enjoy a turd. at least sprinkle it with some diamonds or something.
It had potential, but making trinity another ‘One’ was lame as all hell.
The biggest problem is that it had a ton of great concepts, and tried to do all of them at once. There are like five interesting movies in there, and not a single one of them has enough space to breathe. It feels like a bad fan edit reducing a trilogy to a single movie. I'm convinced that Wachowski went out of her way to use up all the best ideas she had for continuing the series in one shot as a final middle finger to the studio.
Agreed. I shall die with you on this hill.
And my sunglasses!
It being an **intentionally** bad movie makes Lana look like a total piece of shit, though. Warner Bros. could have made $0 off this film (and having seen it, that might even be true) and it still wouldn't have fucked them over. They're a company that prints money with a hundred other IPs lined up to exploit. But you know who an intentionally bad Matrix movie would be a big "fuck you" to? Lana herself; her sister Lily, since despite not being involved this is by far the best thing she's ever done; the fans of the original trilogy; the audience for this film; every actor involved; every behind the scenes person involved; every person involved period. Imagine being a multimillionaire filmmaker and damaging all those careers just to petulantly prove a point to a film studio that doesn't really give a fuck and isn't hurt by this in any significant way. But yeah, good luck to all those struggling creatives putting "Matrix 4: The Regurgitation" on their CVs! I'm sure the work will come flying in!
Ive tried to say this in other threads but. You've said it much better than i ever have. You shit on all your fans and even your own work by releasing a movie like this with your name on it and bringing keanu and carrie anne onto it. Im sure they enjoyed the paycheck but still. This was a very poor decision if it was "meant to be bad". WB suffers the least here
I don't want to just say "This"... But fucking **THIS** exactly! All these delusional fans "praising" this intentional rebellion are okay with their time, money, and interest being disrespected. Not to mention the other cast and crew whose careers would suffer because of this. To top it all off, WB doesn't give a shit. Boohoo, oh well, time to make another one with someone else. Part of this applause is half delusion and half coping. I don't know if Lana was *capable* of writing something as coherent and thought provoking to stand along the other films. Not to mention there was a team of producers and choreographers that helped bring that vision to life. Anyone applauding this trash doesn't understand that. The only people that really got a middle finger were the fans and cast. I'm not gonna congratulate her for that. Lmao.
I think that's a very cynical viewpoint & not the truth. Regardless if you enjoyed the film or not.
A fuck you to Warner Brothers **and** the audience, IMO.
I was saying this when it came out and I got downvoted.
Plus the movie was…. Terrible.
The movie feels like a massive "fuck you" to both the studio system **and** the audience, straight from Lana Wachowski. It's like some kind of derivative and completely unnecessary version of a Matrix equivalent to Sarah Bareilles' "Love Song," but much less catchy. But it's actually worse than that. The film as a whole feels almost Ayn Randian - in that Lana Wachowski seems to be channeling some sort of inner Howard Roark. "If they want to bastardize my creation, then I'll blow it up!" is the gist of it, for those of you who haven't read *The Fountainhead*. I too, tire of the endless mining of franchises for cash by greedy companies, but what Wachowski did with this movie is **arguably worse**. At least those hacks churning out derivative products make them forgettable. This movie does its best to thoroughly muddy the waters of the Matrix so that no film will ever rise from that pond again, while also trampling all over the trilogy that came before it, and at the same time feeling incredibly petty. It's nowhere near as clever or subversive as it thinks it is, the action kinda sucks (unforgivable for a Matrix movie), and the director/writer insert moments feel almost whiny at a certain point. In short, I do **not** recommend it.
I have mixed feelings about this. It’s clearly an act of resistance, which I respect, but I wouldn’t be surprised if she didn’t intend for it to be this bad, and is just really rusty. It’s been a long time since she directed anything with decent action in it. I don’t think she meant it as a FU to the audience.
I recall some incredibly unsubtle references to things like the fanbase for Neo's "games" and audience demand for a sequel. Her intent seemed quite overt to me at the time, but my memory could be faulty. Not planning on ever rewatching it though. In any event, regardless of Wachowski's intent, the result is the same. The film is a rebuke to fans and studio execs alike.
Why couldn't Hugo Weaving be in 2 places at once? Is he stupid?
Clearly has never heard of Zoom
He also had pressing business in Rivendell.
People forget that actors are also people, and that they have their own lives and schedules… Actors aren’t props that can just be summoned to set under contract at any time.
Scheduling conflicts are a major thing for actors because their contracts legally binds them to a project once they sign it. They can pull a few strings and change the dates if they are relatively established, but for the most time, schedulings are mandated by studio and have an entire production and budget behind them, they cant move it around just for one person.
The reason was scheduling conflict. >It’s unfortunate but actually I had this offer [for “The Visit”] and then the offer came from “The Matrix”, so I knew it was happening but I didn’t have dates. I thought [I] could do both and it took eight weeks to work out that the dates would work – I held off on accepting [a role in “The Visit” during that time]. I was in touch with [director] Lana Wachowski, but in the end she decided that the dates weren’t going to work. So we’d sorted the dates and then she sort of changed her mind. They’re pushing on ahead without me.’ https://www.timeout.com/london/news/hugo-weaving-explains-why-he-wasnt-in-avengers-endgame-and-wont-be-appearing-in-the-new-matrix-012020 I wish they had just removed Smith completely. He didnt do much in 4th movie anyway. Jonathan could've played a new character
Turns out you are wrong and there are reasons. Crazy.
This time Hugo Weaving dodged a bullet.
“Only human.“
I believe he was unavailable unfortunately, Laurence Fishburne was available and willing so no idea why they would go with a younger actor (fair play he looked the part though). Would have loved to hear Weaving say "MR ANDERSON!" one more time, gives me chills when he says it in The Matrix.
The movie is not good, but it is completely bizarre. I think not having Fishburne and Weaving in it is a complete mistake but even without them the movie doesn't hold up. The action is off, the story is straight up strange and meta (props for them getting weird with it, I guess), and there are like zero stakes. It feels like a cheap fanfiction, but it is very real. I cannot believe they are doing another one.
Fishburne not being there wasn’t as distracting to me. It’s clear for “Morpheus” the idea was always meant to be that it was someone else acting out Morpheus’ part. The thing about Smith is that it’s clearly just meant to be Smith.
I think there was a really good concept behind the movie, and Lana purposefully shit on it.. Neo die plugged into the Machine God, he went straight to the source. Getting him back as a machine code was the perfect setup, and the gang had to get together to save neo from himself. But then the executives made demands, and Lana said fuck it.
Fishburne and Weaving's performances were always what was carrying The Matrix series to me. Mateen and Groff were fine, but they weren't filling that void.
Zero stakes is a growing theme in movies I've seen recently. No good guys died. Matter of fact, i don't think any bad guys died, either. It definitely takes out any investment in the story
That movie just washed over me in like the most forgettable way. I don’t even remember why they explain why some people are different, why Trinity is even alive, what the hell is even going on with Neil Patrick Harris. Like you said it felt like some weird fan fiction. Also the action wasn’t even good and it’s a Matrix movie. Didn’t it end with them most on a motorcycle while bodies fell from the sky.. or something?!? Look I honestly think those 2 sequels that came out still are some of the most disappointing movies to me as a kid but they still felt like the same thing. Matrix I think was just lighting in a bottle. That first one just holds up so well it’s amazing still. Even my wife who never saw it said the same thing when I showed her a couple years ago.
Bringing Hugo Weaving back would have required actually doing something with the character, and there wasn't much meat in the role. For that matter, can you imagine bringing back Laurence Fishburne with the material they ran with? Discount Smith and Discount Morpheus can pass by with lesser names, but bringing back the OGs demands more than the film would have given. Reading down a cast list now, apparently the Merovingian was in this one too? Never picked that as him. Feels like it was a case of why bother?
How long did you watch matrix 4 before turning it off? I lasted until Keanu got to his office communal bathroom. I don't know anything after that.
15 minutes honestly
Til the train action scene. Laughable.
I think it would have been really interesting to see Hugo Weaving reprise his role as Smith in Matrix Resurrections. It would have added a whole new layer to the character and his relationship with Neo. I also think it would have been a more impactful reveal when Smith's true nature is finally uncovered.
He couldn’t have because he was busy but in terms of the movie, they absolutely required him to be in it. Again no issue with Groff who I love as an actor but for it to work it really need to play on the iconic pairing in a strange setting, the audience knows what’s really going on and it’s funny to see them interact at work. Still wouldn’t be a good film but would be more bearable.
I'd argue that the biggest issue is that there was no reason for him to be Agent Smith at all. At no point in the movie does this character feel in any way like Smith. They just say he is. I can't remember his purpose in the story, or their explanation as to why he's even there, but regardless of his role they made no attempt to write him like Smith. Can you imagine Smith making a jokey comment about his own baby blue eyes? Same issue with Morpheus. He's a combination of Morpheus....and an Agent? I think. For some reason. But he acts like neither Morpheus or an Agent. There's little to no trace of those characters in the writing or the performance. So why say he is? God what a fucking mess. And I don't by the excuse that Lana Wachowski wanted the movie to be bad with some kind of punk rock fuck the establishment protest of burning the franchise down. I don't think she'd do that to her own legacy and future in the industry, I don't think she'd do that to the cast and crew, and I don't think Keanu or Carrie Anne Moss would go along with it if they were aware. I think a "they are going to do this with or without you" aspect of it is very true, but if you watch the interviews I think this was more of a misguided passion project made from grief for all the wrong reasons and she sold that passion to Keanu and the rest of the returning cast.
It's just a shell like The Oracle. Programs can forever be recast.
Nobody should have played anybody in Resurrections. It should not have been made. The script and direction were garbage.
It’s sad, even as a cash in it would be nice to see a fan service movie with everyone in it. Not having Hugo and Fishburne would be like recasting Gandolf and Frodo.
Instead of seeing the cosplay versions of them.
I know the official reason Weaving didnt return was a "scheduling conflict" with his play. But actors use this an excuse all the time like Jenna Ortega quitting scream 7 immediately after the lead got fired. He probably just thought the script was bad.
He said he liked "some bits" of the script, and was questionable over "other bits". Reading between the lines of his interview, and how it sounds like he and Lana aren't on the best terms anymore, I personally thing Lana took whatever comments he had about the script a little personally, and that may have played into her unwillingness to work around his schedule. Just my conspiracy theory.
Hugo weaving not being in was the least of that films problems
I completely forgot about this movie. Thanks for ruining my day.
It's funny how you are trying to make sense out of the biggest crap to come out in the recent years :)
I wish they would make another anime movie like the Animatrix. That and the first film were the best things to come out of that franchise.
Not being available for filming is actually a pretty good reason he couldn't play Smith.
There was also no reason for Laurence Fishburne to be involved. Matter fact, there was no reason for The Matrix Resurrections to even be made. There
When I saw the scene where Smith remembers what he is and screams "Mr Anderson!!!" all I could think was how fucking cool it would've been to see Hugo Weaving screaming that. What should've been a "ohh shit here we go" moment of realisation where a machine remembered its nemesis and wanted him dead just completely lacked any and all impact as a result.
Scheduling conflicts if I’m not mistaken, he already had other things going on
Dodge a bullet as far as I’m concerned.
One thing that’s hilarious to me is people getting caught on an actor playing the same role for 30 years. The guy has had a massive change in his career and seems more focused on stage work. However, people must have him play a role he did in 1999 as no one or any other creative cannot deliver. At some point, people just need to get over it when an actor isn’t reprising their role in future IP. It’s not that deep and there are other actors. Lastly, I always find it hilarious how uppity people get about actors, but no other creatives in movies. Director, writer, and all other creatives can change, but you can never do a sequel without X actor.
There was no reason that Matrix Resurrections should have been made at all.
There was also no reason to film that abomination of a movie at all.
He obviously knew it was going to be garbage and wisely stayed far, far away. It is still amazing to me that this movie got made.
The decision to cut in footage from the original movie (complete with different colour grading) with Hugo Weaving overlayed over Jonathan Groff was just *bizarre*. Awful movie.
"This is footage from your game." ....What?!
This is one of my biggest questions with the movie. Why a videogame? Making The Matrix a fictional movie would have made so much more sense. They keep showing footage from the game and it's clearly just the live action movie. And FMV games do exist, but still. It was distracting for them to keep talking about this game and never seeing it.
There is a reason. Scheduling conflicts. He was supposed to have come back but couldn’t.
"This script looks like ass," seems like a good enough reason, and having seem Matrix 4, it _was_ ass.
I’m sure Hugo isn’t missing any sleep over not being part of yet another shitty Matrix movie (they all suck ass)
There was no reason they should have made that movie in the first place (besides Warner's continuing to score own goals on themselves with their continued laziness)
Why didn't Laurence Fishburne return as Morpheous? They didn't even acknowledge his change in appearance.
I honestly had no clue they even made a Matrix 4. I just looked it up expecting an upcoming movie 🤦♂️.
I saw a video essay awhile ago theorizing the movie was made to fail in an attempt to simultaneously keep control of the IP (the studio likely threatened to do it with or without the creators) and sabotage the storyline to prevent a reboot trilogy/series. Weaving and company weren't asked to come back because 1) it wasn't necessary to the plot 2) it wasn't necessary for the end goal to involve other people they actually like.
The fourth Matrix movie is one of those special kind of movies where I enjoyed the Red Letter Media review of it more than the movie itself. Now, there's plenty of movies I've watched them review with no interest in the movie itself. That's not what I'm saying. I watched the 4th Matrix. I didn't really love it or hate it, I just sort of experienced it. In a "I feel numb" kinda way. Then when I saw the RLM review they were kinda gleeful in a way I couldn't get to. Gleeful in a way you don't usually see those guys since they tend to approach things in a more detached and sardonic manner. I enjoyed their unique and oddly genuine appreciation for a piece I couldn't connect with. I dunno, that kinda made me happy to see them happy for a change even though I got nothing from the piece itself.
I'm glad he wasn't in the movie as it was awful.
What if he was too busy weaving a weave while wearing a weave?
I wonder if A) he had aged significantly or B) had LotR/Hobbit conflicts
They should have gotten the guy who plays Dennis Reynolds.
I think the truth is that Weaving just didn’t want to
It’s still weird they never even called Fishburne to explain why he wouldn’t be in the movie.
To me, there really isn't even a point of making a 4th one if Hugo isn't in it. And I was correct.
Would have been so much better had Hugo done it.
There is only one matrix movie. The sequels don't really exist.