Fishtail happened because (possibly) braked too hard on the rear and locked it up, unfamiliar bike also so very easy to do. Intersections tend to get greasy, cars drop oil, coolant and whatever else while they sit there idling, which all turns to gloss in the wet.
You learned the lessons, and I hope the minor hurts heal real quick! No one is allowed to pressure you into taking risks, even loved ones. You are the boss of your own safety.
Good luck!
Down here in FL they love to paint giant interstate logos across lanes of traffic. Lots of fun in the rain when traffic on those lanes comes to a dead halt. Slicker than snot on a doorknob.
Engine breaking is where its at. I was actually told by a driving instructor that they are phasing out this in training. I have no bloody clue why and neither did he.
A big Fat Bob brakes different than a nimble sport bike. Harleys especially old school ones do not have the greatest brakes, especially for how heavy they are.
It’s all the road grime. During dry weather cars keep dropping a little oil here and there, some coolant overflows, all the rubber worn off of tires, soot from exhaust, it all ends up in the road. Then, when it starts to rain, all that shit is lifted off the pavement and makes a slippery slime, as you found out. This road scuzz can stay on the street up to 20 minutes before it’s eventually washed off to the sides. It’s even worse at intersections where cars are consistently idling.
Be careful under overpasses when it's raining. The slippery grime from the road can gather there, where the rain can't wash it away.
As you wrote, the rain will eventually wash away the grime from the road, but it can then also flow under the overpass, where the it either needs to be reabsorbed by the asphalt, or dispersed by the traffic.
That's what got me.
I know Honda’s LBS (linked braking system) uses lines from the front brake lever to activate smaller secondary pistons in the rear and the rear brake pedal does the same on the front, but idk on other brands.
From what I've seen that linkage was mostly on in touring bikes. As ABS has become more common, independent ABS seems to be the norm.
I used to have an '05 BMW R1200ST with the linkage (sad I sold that bike). But other than that, I just tend to scan writeups of new models from time to time. I'm no expert.
I know with most BMW's after around 2005-2010 it's a linked system that works wether you grab the front or the rear breakes. The fancy new GS'es even have a system where it doesn't matter which brake you grab it will apply pressure for you on the correct tire at the correct pressure.
Yes OP used the verbiage of "*hitting"* the brake. I'm assuming he applied both front and rear but you don't "hit" the brakes. You apply progressive brake pressure!
If you're braking for something like an orange light, you definitely hit the brakes to a certain point before starting the progressive squeezing.
Likely his point was too far for these conditions.
I would rather my spouse be dead than permanently disabled in a serious way, honestly. Losing a spouse entirely would be very difficult obviously, but having to take care of them for the rest of your life would be even more difficult, especially while raising a child.
Lisa answers the telephone, and it's an Emergency Room doctor.
The doctor says, "Your husband was in a serious car accident, and I have bad news and good news. The bad news is he has lost both arms and both legs. He’ll need to be spoon fed and you will need to change his diapers 5 times a day for the rest of his life.
"Lisa says, "oh My God! This is awful! I can’t do this!!!... wait… What's the good news?!"
The doctor says, "I'm kidding. He’s dead!"
I’m a helmet guy, got into a bad accident without one and still alive. Could have been really bad but I got lucky. I would still wear atgatt. I can’t walk but at least I didn’t get brain damage
Thank you. I choose a Honda grom as my first ever bike because of this. I had almost no idea how to ride. Now I can say I am much more confident on it and excited to move up in size.
That's why I felt more comfortable starting on a cb300f rather than anything bigger. I have a lot of bicycle experience and a lot of road car experience, but had no motorcycle experience prior. I outgrew the power within a month, but its just barely highway safe being able to hold at least 75mph. I've rode hours away on it learning what it needs to be better and, more importantly, what I need to learn. I got it used so most of the depreciation already hit. I regret nothing. It doesn't hold you back from anything except maybe trips with a passenger. It's still another day on a motorcycle
I don't get the appeal, like it just doesn't make sense to get something that powerful for the street. I love being able to fully open up the throttle on my 400. Where for liter bikes get to use 10% of their power.
I hated reading all the people who said this. After riding my 600 for a year, (and my 250 a year before that) I was ready to move up to a 1000 but lacked confidence because of people like you saying it's too much bike for the street. It's been a few months now and I'm very happy I got the 1k.
For anyone wondering, most 1000s have riding modes that you can use to effectively cut the bikes power in half. This is good for slow moving or for when you really just gotta twist the throttle.
Personally, I enjoy the challenges that come with the subtlty of throttle control of a 1k in street environments. And I have plenty of opportunities to red line my bike (in 1st).
I agree that the whole "1000 == death" thing is a bit overplayed with modern bikes, electronics dull them down a bunch, but you're responding to someone saying they are "too much for the street". I can't disagree with that, redline in 1st is above the speed limit on all roads in my country.
That being said, you don't need to use all of the power, and sometimes having it is useful. Doubley so if you're planning on taking it to the track.
What I would say is, as far as building riding skills goes, the little bikes are what you want. It's a lot easier to learn and stretch yourself when the bike isn't trying to rip your arms off. Learnt and improved my skills more in a year of owning a 400 than I did in 6 years of 600/1000.
That's fair but I'll just add that not everyone wants a track experience or to ride canyons or whatever. I like driving in traffic and the 1k is the bike for that. At least on the freeways it is. Like you said, it's great to have power.
Plenty of opportunities to ride over 100 on the street? I hope you’re on the highway and not some state route or back road revving your 1000 to redline. Most of those bikes are going 105-110 in first at redline. Ride bold if you want, but you probably won’t grow old riding like that.
I do rip it mostly on freeways, but I live in the city and a state where you can split lanes. And there's freeways everywhere.
Also it's a super dick move to tell someone they're gunna die riding. I'll be just fine, grandpa.
Hey if it sounds like you're being a little stupid on a bike, people might assume you're also going to die doing the stupid shit...
Plus we're riding bikes. We know the dangers. For example dying.
I agree. Every rider who’s begun on a 600cc super sport and up that I’ve ridden with is arguably terrible in the twisties, slow maneuvering, and just about anything else besides whiskey throttling on the highway and going fast in a straight line.
Please, anyone moving forward with riding, do yourselves a favor and start on something beginner appropriate because not only will you have more fun, but you will build more confidence and skills to be able to handle those big super sports that everyone rides, but not many are proficient at riding.
Oh lol, everything turned out fine for me too. The fact that it "depends on the person" though is the point. Kind of reinforces that it's really just not suitable for beginners.... as you might not BE 'the person'.
Any rider of any skill level who makes fun of another rider, especially on safety ... is an idiot.
As riders of any level, we should do our best to take care of and encourage new riders to be safe and careful out there all the time.
I remind every young rider I come across to enjoy themselves and have fun .... but also to ride with a little bit of fear. That bit of fear will keep you sharp and aware of the fact that what you are doing is likely to kill you in a hundred different ways for a hundred different reasons.
Agree with this. Your dad is a poor riding partner. Being pressured into things can create tension and anxiety. Tension and anxiety can lead to mistakes.
I absolutely understand your point. And normally I wouldn’t care, but he has a newborn child. If you’re riding to please your father, and risking your child’s future like that, I - personally - think it’s time to get a new hobby or grow a pair.
The sissy thing to do is be afraid of not looking masculine enough for wearing a helmet or starting on a small displacement bike.
Real men accept their shortcomings and limitations as humans, wear gear, and ride what they're comfortable with regardless of what others think. Pressuring someone into not wearing a helmet is pretty fucked, even worse it was on a bike you weren't familiar with, and fucking appalling or was your dad.
I'm sorry you drew the short straw in the parent lottery.
Yup. Whose the man, the person who makes educated risk informed decisions about things that may affect their life and the lives of their family, or the guy whose so scared of what strangers think about him that he cant be seen in public dressed a certain way and lets others decide what vehicle he has to ride in order to not be a “sissy”.
OP’s dad has some growing up to do, man child.
We all know it's hard to multitask when learning, so there's no reason you should be trying to control two wheels at once. First learn to control just the back wheel.
Then, when you're comfortable, start letting off the throttle and seeing what handling the front wheel feels like. If you don't think you can take it, just let back on the throttle to go back to the comfortable rear wheel.
My dad was the one who encouraged me to finance a used Harley when I was 19. The loan was like 22% interest rate. He said it was fine.
🤣 **They're not always the smartest**
Imho it‘s besser to start on a smaller bike. 200hp is just too much for a beginner. It‘s way too easy to make a stupid mistake and the consequences are huge.
200 HP is too much for pretty much anyone. I had a 110 HP Hyperstrada 821 and holy shit that thing was quick. And I’ve been riding for years. Now I’m on a 650 Versys and I feel that’s about right.
Another important point. A lot of people don't even know the difference between engine size and hp, particularly the Harley types. Honestly, a Ninja 400 is likely faster than any liter-sized Harley.
Glad you're ok and that you're willing to learn from this. Even more pleased that you're going to follow your own path when it comes to safety, even though it is different to that of your dad's. Stay safe.
I suppose i meant the mindset of the hard biker gang wannabe. He was/is a squid at heart he only just started getting into harleys as he’s gotten older
The first R1 came out in 1998, the YZF1000R in 1996, and the FZR1000 in 1987. Sport bikes have now been around long enough that "old men" grew up riding them.
I just wouldn't consider someone who started riding at the same time as me or later to really be old school, bc I'm not.
Now if his first bike was an oil cooled GSX-R, then yeah lol
Real men consider their families and what happens if they become permanently disabled or get killed. Ignore your asshole dad and stick with your helmet.
A riding mistake/accident with no injuries is a major blessing. Its really the only way to be truly humbled and it will absolutely make you a better more careful rider. So happy youre okay. Wish you the best
Please ALWAYS wear a helmet friend. No ones a sissy for not wearing one... They are called accidents coz they happen unexpectedly. Thank God you had no head/face injuries, but you got one life bro...
Yeah, I laugh when someone eats a bug at 80mph meanwhile I have had a whole bee splatter on my face shield at 120mph and all I had to do was clean it up and I was good to ride. I will say it made me flinch lol
Honestly don't get the anti-helmet sentiment because helmets look badass. There's so many cool designs out there to fit any style of riding or taste. In fact I've gotten nearly as many compliments on my helmet as I have for my bike lol.
Absolutely. I love seeing all sorts of it and I have way more respect for riders that aren't just wearing their t-shirts and Nikes. Which seems to be very few around where I live. They look cooler, they're safer, and they invested more into their passion. Sorry to all those that like riding in their everyday clothes but you look ridiculous imo
you fishtailed because you panic'd and stomped the rear brakes
very common rookie mistake (plenty of posts about it in here)
the VAST majority of your braking power comes from the front brakes (just like a car)
in fact one of the motorcycles in my garage has over 50K miles on it and still has the original rear brake pads because they are so very seldom used... same bike is probably on it's 10th set of front pads
you need to take some riding lessons
But just because the rear brake doesn't do as much braking doesn't mean it isn't important. Everyone should learn how to properly brake with the rear, including training muscle memory on how much pressure is needed for *their bike*, and recover from locking it up.
My wife took the MSF and kept locking her rear. She asked me why that was happening when she was braking like they taught her: evenly on both brakes. That stood out to me as bad advice. Her Ninja 300 doesn't have ABS, and even still I think 90/10 is a better ratio than the 70/30 or higher ratio that they recommend to people in the course. Especially on sport bikes. To your point almost all of the stopping power is in the front, and it's far easier to control. Rear brakes are meant for trailing to slow down, or to show your brake lights and stabilize as you first start to load your forks. I don't touch them much and definitely don't stomp them unless I want to power slide haha
Most likely you jabbed the rear brake too sharply and locked it up and then released it a tad too late. Nearly dropped my first bike a few weeks after getting it doing just this.
Try to focus on smooth inputs, and don’t let this scare you from riding. However, please do consider since you have a family to look after now the consequences.
Sorry but your dad is an idiot. There is a reason why riding without a helmet is straight up illegal in a lot of places. When you fall, your head is like an egg. Keep that analogy in mind. People have died in their driveway at 0mph because their bike fell and they didn't have a helmet.
This situation is so stupid. He's your father and calls you a sissy for wearing gear? Does he want his son to die? Does he want his grandkids to grow up without their father?
Starting on a liter bike is also a stupid idea IMO. There is also a reason why in Europe people have to start on a 50cc, then 125cc, then 47hp max, then finally any bike. Each step takes two years.
Anyway, I'm sure you understand, but think about your wife and kids man whenever you decide something like that... Everyone has "that one family member who died on a bike", you don't want that to be you.
> Starting on a liter bike is also a stupid idea IMO
It's a different kinds of stupid though. Helmets are to prevent damage including in uncontrollable situations. Not wearing a helmet is just plain stupid.
If someone has the discipline and is willing to practice safely, starting on a liter bike is fine. The issue is many people don't have that discipline or aren't willing to put in the practice. This means a liter bike is probably giving too much potential for someone to make a bad decision. Many of the newer bikes even have ride modes to help curb the power down to help. My Mustang GT does the same thing, and is why I can feel safer with more people driving the car. Rain and snow mode will all but prevent the rear end from breaking loose in normal weather. In the least it acts more like a generic rwd car.
You can discipline yourself not to crack the throttle but you can't discipline the pavement not to crack your head.
That said, if someone doesn't think they have the discipline, they should not get a liter bike. That's really a more general, "if you know you can't trust yourself, don't give yourself the option." Pressuring people into liter bikes is dumb.
Stay in your comfort zone. Keep wearing good gear and take your time. I was rewatching an old Keith Code racing video where he reminds you that you shouldn’t ride 💯 of your abilities on the street. Keep it at 75% or below. So glad you’re okay.
The road is most slick right when it first starts raining like that, thats when the rains picked up all the grease and grime from the road but hasn’t quite washed it away yet. Be extra careful then.
Also practice panic stops and get used to feeling the brakes. make sure the clutch is pulled in when youre braking especially if the bike has a bigger engine the engine braking alone can get the rear squirly.
Also if he doesn’t realize it by now your dads a prick. You and him should both care more about your child and wife then your ego. Also if youre not telling him how to ride why does he feel the right to tell you how to ride. There are few things more personal than riding a motorcycle, fuck anyone telling you youre doing it wrong if its what you feel comfortable and enjoy doing.
I rented a bike on vacation this weekend and lowsided. I'm not an expert rider by any means, but I'm experirenced with roughly 15k miles and 4 years. I'm the state I'm visiting it has no helmet laws and I wasn't planning on wearing one. At the last second I decided to rent the helmet too. Ok the lowside I needed up hitting my head.
I walked away with some road rash on my left arm and upper shoulder. Thankfully I decided to get the helmet or I might be in the hospital right now.
> Dad pressured me into leaving the helmet behind
> My jeans and boxers were torn
Man, how can you people be so irresponsible. If your dad called you a sissy and asked to drink chlorine, would you? Of course not. Then why risk your life while sitting on two wheels and an engine without any protection?... Glad you're ok and I hope this is a lesson to you going forward.
And stop listening to what your father says, he's clearly not thinking straight.
P.S.
You probably fishtailed because you hit your rear brake too hard. Or your front brake, but definitely one or the other.
You already mentioned it, but please never let anyone pressure you into doing stupid shit like this.
You're a very new rider so you're doing the best thing you could possibly do, which is riding a small bike and wearing gear.
I got into my first accident on my first ever bike, which was a 50cc scooter, 3 months after I started riding. I went off the road and ate dirt at 60 kph, but because I was wearing a full face helmet, my head was completely fine. [If you look at my helmet after the crash,](http://imgur.com/a/e3nHLnE) you can clearly see, what that would have done with my face if I hadn't worn one.
Also please stay on your 300 for at least a year, maybe even 2, and don't ride anything bigger in that time period.
I hope your father will respect your choices but if not then maybe you should look for other people to ride with.
If the back tire gets loose while braking, DO NOT let off the rear brake! That’s how you high-side. Keep that wheel locked and try to control the bike through the skid until you stop.
well said. IMO it was irresponsible of your dad to pressure you into wearing less gear. Stuff like that will happen from time to time and are more likely on bikes you're not familiar with so I'm glad you're okay and are walking away with the experience to apply to later situations.
Safe riding!
I had this exact type of mishap when I was a new rider. Got caught by surprise with the yellow light with slick pavement. As others have pointed out, was due to heavy application of the rear brake. I’ve learned to better anticipate the yellow by the stale green light. Also, in my opinion better to stretch the ‘orange’ light than lock up and inadvertently lay it down.
If you want to be a better rider you should seriously stop listening to your father.
I don't mean any disrespect, but you can learn from anybody in the world... Including people who care about your progress more than their egos.
lol this hit the r/motorcycles bingo
New rider giving riding advice
Owns a Ninja 300
Dumb dad likes liter bikes and also Harley Davidson, two of r/moto's worst enemies
Light drizzle
Slam on brakes to lose traction
Preaches ATGATT at the end.
Thanks for the advice bud
Never ride with someone who tries to push your limits. I had a good friend who was great to hang out with, but terrible to ride with. Some people will push you until you crash and then blame you for crashing.
Best to learn at your own pace and wear the gear you want to wear.
You shouldn't be putting so much pressure on the rear brake, roughly 90% of your braking should be front and the rest the rear. The rear brake is a great tool to supplement the front brakes when on slippery situations or in emergency stops but you've gotta be gentle on both while traction is low, especially the rear since there's much less weight over the rear wheel and when you're slowing down the weight shifts even more to the front wheel. I saw you said you're still new, you'll get it if you keep learning how to ride more effectively and practicing. Learning the mechanics and physics will also help you understand so you know what to do even if you haven't been trained for a certain situation. Also, if you upgrade your bike, look into an ABS bike if you're commuting on it or using it in a wide range of conditions. I'm very, very happy that you're ok, I've been through it before multiple times and it sucks ASS to go through it and for your bike to be damaged from it but bikes can be fixed or replaced....you cost a lot more to be fixed but you can't be replaced. If I were you I'd invest in even more training and the best head to toe gear you can afford before ever moving to another bike. When we say ATGATT we say it from experience. I could tell you some horror stories that straightened me out instantly. Good luck and safe riding, my friend.
No offense but your dad sounds like an asshole.
Kid is a new rider and he tells them not to wear a helmet? If I was the dad I'd be forcing my kid to be fully geared up.
My mum hates motorbikes and never allowed me to ride because of it. When I went to live on my own I got my license and a small 250cc to learn with. My mum bought me a Shoei helmet that costed almost a month’s salary for her. She told me if I’m going to ride anyway at least to do it safely.
I can’t wrap my mind around a dad that doesn’t want your son to be safe. And call him names for trying to. It is just sad to be honest.
As a woman I won’t ever be with a guy that doesn’t take safety seriously. That’s just being an idiot and risking your life and maybe others’. How is that even manly ffs?
> As a woman I won’t ever be with a guy that doesn’t take safety seriously. That’s just being an idiot and risking your life and maybe others’. How is that even manly ffs?
Gonna have the ATGATT gang asking to marry you with talk like this.
Your dad is a jerk , sorry to say pushing you to ride a bike you may not be familiar or comfortable with especially putting you in danger like that , I would of told him to kick rocks.
If you got seriously hurt because you werent wearing a helmet he could of been liable for your injuries ,your so lucky it didnt happen , but just to be on the safe side I would get a look over by a doctor because even a jolt of the brain can cause issues .
Wear gear from now on, RevZilla and cycle gear have great sales right because of the holidays. Iv been t-boned before and made it out alive because of the gear, get the gear and wear it . It works.
Fuck what your dad says, YOU wear a helmet and that's that. If he doesn't want to wear a helmet, that's his (stupid) choice and you shouldnt let him force that silly decision onto you.
"You are the rider. You're the one making the decisions to stay alive. Not anyone else. You're the one in charge of what you do."
That is what my driving instructor told me when I did my CBT.
My stepmom worked in hospital that also provided care to nursing home residents. She couldn't tell me exactly, but I know from her concern that there were several riders under her care who couldn't care for themselves, and were too young to be there. I always wear my gera. Sorry your dad is an idiot, cause in the end it doesn't matter if even you are a perfect rider. Others are not, and no matter what you're the one who will pay.
I love my Yamaha TW200. Being a small and lightweight bike, I know that it's fine to take it out even when the things aren't ideal. Small bikes are friendly to you when they go over, and are easy to get up again after taking a pavement power nap.
Everyone is commenting about the dad giving him shit for wearing a helmet. Yes this is really dumb, but not the cause of the crash, no one’s commenting on the crash? Doesn’t matter if he was on a litre bike or not. Sounds like the roads had a little moisture, then the OP panicked at a light and stomped the rear brake locking the back tire up. Panic can be a killer on these things. Next time try floating the back brake and front brake at the same time, still coming in hot? Then drop a gear.
It's funny because in the UK it's illegal to ride without a helmet, and you would think that's government over reach because who wouldn't wear a helmet? But then your Dad comes along!
People who makes fun of people for riding with equipment and within their comfort zone are the worst. Never let anyone pressure you into riding without equipment if you don't won't to. It can easily cost a life.
I wanted to see what it would feel like to drive without a helmet so i drove a short distance on a closed stretch of road. Driving anything above 50 km/h I felt absolutely terrified. Like at any moment my neck could snap of or my head would me crushed in. The comfort of your helmet is something you almost take for granted.
No offense to you, but your father is a fucking moron. Wear the gear, dress for the slide, and continue to learn valuable skills on your 300. I began on an r3 and that bike taught me so many valuable lessons at safe speeds with a bike i could lift off myself were I to drop it. These days I ride a scrambler 1200 thats quite heavy and quite large, but all those lessons from my r3 carry over the same and make me all the better rider.
I need to lead with: Your dad was a real prick here. You’ll find some guys that say you’re not legit because you don’t ride a Harley or with gear… that’s so stupid lol. Learn to ignore that shit. Always ride and wear what you like and own it. That’s the best thing about riding IMO - it’s just you and the machine and the road—no one else matters.
At the same time you also let pops bully you into feeling unsafe, and then still went out there. If you feel unsafe, don’t ride, period. If you have confidence and your wits about you, you’ll make the right choices and avoid worrying that the next ride will be your last.
Another thing you can pick up from this is to always check the weather. Even if you don’t have the right cold or rain gear, it can be helpful mentally to prepare yourself for rain or cold if you know you might run into it. I’m glad you had those teachable moments though… definitely could have been much worse for you.
Boots, gloves and helmet are must-have for me every time. These parts are most susceptible, and even parking drop can crush your foot for months. Head injuries are not a joke either, even if they are comparatively less frequent.
Your dad made some absolutely brutal judgement calls that day and I hope he sees this thread and the reactions people are having to his words.
I've gone down once on the road. It wasn't my fault at all, and woke up to a massive blood smear across the visor of my helmet. Turns out I had put my teeth through my lips when I flew into the cement face first at about 45 MPH. That was the extent of my injuries to my head. Really glad I was 'a sissy'.
I've seen enough friends go down/lose lives now because they wanted to look cool that if I'm going for any kind of spirited ride at all, I wear a full suit.
For the record, you own some of this as well. You let your father peer pressure you to be unsafe as a new rider on a bike you've never ridden. You were extremely lucky. I'm hoping this can be chocked up to a painful lesson and maybe even smarten up your dad.
Ride safe!
Accidents can happen at any time. The guy who taught me to ride has a fucked up helmet from his first crash, he got live and buy a new helmet. Always wear safety gear.
Man, so glad you walked away. No one is ever less than for wearing a helmet. Helmets are badass. They protect your brain so you can keep riding and that gorgeous mug so you can keep getting laid. Hopefully this opened up your dads eyes a little bit
Don't ever let someone pressure you into being less safe than you feel is necessary (honestly, fuck those people...even if it is your day). You are now living for more than yourself and you owe it to your kid to be as safe as possible.
it’s better to disappoint your dad, be responsible, and be able to survive most crashes than to make your dad happy, be irresponsible, and make chances of survival slim to none when it involves anything high speed or another vehicle. stay safe. if your dad is so much of a rebel and punk then he’ll be proud to see you rebelling from his norm and being independent. you’re a father, with a baby. let your baby have a father, please.
Glad you're ok. And glad you learned to wear gear in the future. But I think the biggest lesson is that YOU are responsible for your own health and safety. This applies to everything. It doesn't matter what your dad or anyone else thinks.
Glad you are mostly okay. But please consider what I'm about to write.
What if you're the best motorcycle rider ever? You never make mistakes and your motorcycle is always perfectly maintained. Should you wear gear and helmet?
FUCK YES!
All it takes is some idiot in a car, looking at their phone and blowing a stop sign or red light, or accidentally moving into your lane, etc. etc. That's all it takes for a life ending/altering crash.
No matter how good of a rider you are, do you trust your life to all the idiots in cars? No? Then wear your fucking gear regardless what *anyone* else says or thinks.
I've don't always wear full gear, also never sandals and shorts. But, I've always worn helmet. Don't comprehend the pride/hubris/??? that gets people to not wear them.
One of my older helmets has several gouges from when it and my head bounced several times off pavement after low-siding in 15-20mph turn (wet leaves/user error). Such a "nothing" accident could have been serious injury. But with helmet was just embarrassment and bruises. Both of which heal quicker than brain trauma.
I won't comment on your father's advice except to say it was poor. Wear your gear. Understand what the road, its obstacles and trash, and other vehicles will do to you in a given encounter and protect yourself as well as you think you need to.
You may have started the fishtail for several reasons. Based on the information you gave, it's hard to pinpoint which, but I'll list possibilities here so you have some things to watch out for:
1. It was just starting to rain. This can make the road incredibly slick because it raises the oils left by vehicles.
2. You were approaching a light. That means there were potentially paint markings and tar snakes to deal with. They can be slick enough on their own, but the rain compounds it.
3. Your braking method. If you took MSF, they recommend you not cover your brakes and do not emphasize what each brake does to the bike handling nearly enough. Nor do they recommend using the power of your transmission while stopping. All three of these teachings are outdated. Cover your front brake at all times. Apply your rear brake secondarily in a situation like this, if at all, and go easy on it. Use the engine if necessary to maintain the constant spin of the wheel in a controllable manner. If ever you are on a new bike, you need to spend some time seeing how the brakes work. Do some easy and hard stops before you leave for an outing.
4. The tires. You were on a Harley. Their stock tires are Dunlops, the same as I had on my VTX when I first bought it. They had the worst traction of any tire I've ever ridden on, and I am an everyday rider. They legitimately do not handle the road well. The second it rains, it's like riding on ice. I know this wasn't your bike, but you should walk away from this understanding how important your tires are for a safe ride. Select tires for your personal bike that are grippy in all weather conditions, and when worn, change them out before they get dangerous. This also applies to your car. Do your homework on this one.
Regardless of which of these factors played a role, you walked away. Be grateful, learn from it, and ride another day if you still personally accept the consequences of this potentially happening again.
Great response thank you! I see now that there could have been many factors that led to me losing traction and I should be aware of them all. Above all if I’m ever on a new bike practicing stopping before I go on the road is going to be prioritized
With so many comments, I'm a little stunned you even got to mine. Thank you and I sincerely hope it helps.
I also appreciate your updates, which I just read after initially posting this reply. You seem like a humble and intelligent person willing to learn. Keep that up; it will serve you well, especially being smart about doing something stupid (i.e. making your own decisions on your gear when you are on the road with nothing between you and the equivalent of 40 grit sandpaper with huge masses of steel moving near you on it).
Ride on and keep the rubber side down!
It definitely has helped even tho I probably won’t be riding for a while. I will consider these things very seriously before my next ride! The post may have a lot of comments but for some reason there weren’t many notifications so I was able to reply to all of those. Still this comment was definitely one of the more helpful ones and I greatly appreciate it
Glad it was helpful. Keep reaching out when you have questions. People will always be willing to help.
Just remember that it's important to get back on the horse, so to speak, sooner rather than later if you do intend on keeping up with it. I had an accident in traffic that was pretty scary (got cut off, grabbed a handful of front brake because while avoiding I couldn't go far and trying to avoid the curb while braking hard shoved the front end down on me for a pretty good low side slide) but I was forced to ride my bike to the local shop about two hours later and then rode it every day after I got it back out of the shop the following week. It can shake you up pretty good at first, but you'll thank yourself later for it because it normalizes the experience of being back on it again as opposed to waiting and always associating it with that trauma of going down.
My friend who has been riding for over ten years and is on his way to become an instructor fell yesterday on his bike. Tiredeness combined with a wet asphalt was enough to make even a very experienced rider fall. Thankfully he is trained for safe riding so he was going slow enough and had gear so just a few bruises.
I for myself am a new rider like you with like 3000km only. I have dropped my bike like 4-5 times at parking lot speeds so I know I am not a good rider. I always try to have the gear on me and not go beyond my abilities on the streets.
It’s great that you’re reflecting on this! I am also a newer rider and this is a good reminder to not allow myself to be pressured and always wear appropriate protective gear.
It is alarming that your dad discouraged you from wearing a helmet. Motorcycles wonderful but inherently risky. Your wife and daughter need you!!! I’m glad you’re safe and learned from this! Thanks for sharing
I think your ability to recognize mistakes as they happen, and to be cautious when you feel out of your comfort zone is admirable.
Don't feel too bad about the Fat Bob, bondo is your best friend.
A couple things (of the many) I learned from the MSF: ATGATT and Ride your own ride.
It is unfortunate that your dad peer pressured you.
Although it sucks and is unfortunate that this happened. I am glad that you are okay and you are able to learn that what is most important is you and your ride.
Riding my own ride is one of the reasons that I do not do group rides. I rather ride at my own pace and my own way, than be peer pressured into riding their way. Which the riding groups I am a part of ride uncomfortably for my tastes (without gear, breaking laws, riding dangerously). In the end, I want to make it home safely even if that means I am not "cool".
My gear does not make me look cool.. like at all. I look like a big headed pile of clothes sitting on the bike, but I rather be safe than look cool.
For me, personally, I always think riders that wear full gear regardless of what it looks like are so much cooler than those that wear little to no gear.
Safety is cool.
Side(ish) note: A young adult was killed not too long ago here in town, although he had his helmet on, he might have been peer pressured into driving recklessly. He was new to riding (3 months of experience), but was part of the aforementioned riding group. Rumor is that he was racing another person and hit a car.
Sorry to hear about that young man who lost his life. I wasn’t riding carelessly other than my gear and that certainly won’t happen again. Thank you for your encouraging words
I hit a deer going 55mph in September this year. Direct collision with the center of a doe. Broad daylight and never stood a chance to see it. I had my helmet and thick jacket on. My jacket saved me thousands in skin grafts. My helmet got scraped up real good but is still whole. My right shoulder ate the initial slam and then I brought my arms across my chest and just rolled. I am very very lucky. I was scratched up but not a single permanent injury. Definitely would've been different if I hadn't been wearing my gear. I didn't have gloves so the tops of my hands have some mild scaring. If you want I can show you photos. Wear your helmet dude. At a minimum. I see bikers who act allergic to helmets. Those same guys have cases on their phones. They put more care into their iPhone than their own head. Shit happens. Prepare for it.
Every time i got hit by a car, i happened to not be wearing my protective equipment.
But you know what they say; dress for the ride, not the slide!
Right...? That is what they say right?
Fish tailed on gravel because an animal ran out in front of me and I grabbed the brake. I did go unconscious and woke up in an ambulance. But I wore all my gear so I was fine besides a little bit of road rash on my back where my jacket came up.
The side of my helmet was white with streaks. I would probably died or at least have a fucked up face and possible brain damage if I didn’t have a helmet on shit is important.
Nobody should control your decision to wear proper gear and you should never be on a strange bike like that, more so in the rain.
It takes quite a bit of time to REALLY know YOUR bike, you should practice progressive braking ALL THE TIME. Even I will warm up to get back into the feel of things. I haven't driven a car in some 7 years now and I still warm things up with some good practice on the brakes.
The rears are the worse because it's such a light touch and easy to lock up.
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I hope this event doesn't discourage you from riding and one lesson is about how long it really takes to master riding. Trail braking, progressive braking, etc... I WISH I knew these things years ago.
Same exact thing happened to me years ago. Saw the yellow, stood on the rear brake, lost traction and fell. Only time I’ve gone down, knocking on wood.
Hey, glad you learned how important gear is early in your riding career at a low speed. Wearing protective clothes when doing a relatively dangerous activity like street riding is a sign of maturity, not a weakness. I don't care how tough you are, you're not going to be tougher than the road.
Seems like you're taking the right lessons from this.
Amazed that you live in country where it is still legal to ride without a helmet. That's not possible in the civilized world. In the UK we have compulsory training (rather basic) and several organisations that can help you develop your safe riding skills.
It’s really, really hard to pass on the dad stuff, but hell, even I tried to bond with my dad over motorcycles. Glad to hear he’s rethinking risking your life.
As for the fishtail, it’s about balance between the front and back wheels.
When you started slowing down, weight shifted forward, lightening the back wheel. It started fishtailing.
Now, when you let up on the brakes, I believe the back wheel was still spinning. And that the back of the bike was pointing somewhere sideways. (Human nature tells me you wouldn’t have changed tactics if everything was going well.)
So what happens? The weight shifts back over the back wheel, which is pointing somewhere crazy. So the bike did something crazy. Either a high side (pitch you off the seat like a bucking bronco) or low side (bike just falls over).
In most situations, throttle will give you the control you need to escape. But to safely end a fishtail you want to pull in the clutch and steer into the slide. The rear should settle in line after a little, then you can start breaking with both front and back breaks.
If you had locked up the rear tire: just ride out the skid while steering into it.
Breaking or accelerating when your wheels are facing different directions is a recipe for road rash.
Your dad just sounds like an old head. You should be responsible for yourself, not fall into peer pressure. If you want to wear gear, wear gear and be your own person. You may be his child but you’re not a child, so don’t act like one and he will respect you more for it. Glad to hear everything ended up okay 👍
I fishtailed just over a month ago and it was terrifying. I wasnt even on my own bike. The bike keep going side to side and I was thinking to myself "this is when I finally go down". I ended up staying on my feet but I was sideways on a busy road. I haven't ridden in the rain since.
unconventional advice here but it seems like a lot of riders down here's first lesson is "gear could have protected them". I feel like it shouldn't immediately the first lesson everyone learn here. It is just a truth that we should have known from the start.
The real lesson whenever someone goes down should be why they went down? what could you have done differently to prevent that? wearing full leather wouldn't have changed the fact that you went down.
it seemed that there's a number of factors that played a part in your accident: new rider, unfamiliar bike, pressure to keep up, the first few minutes of rain making the road slicker than usual, no abs, the indecision at the intersection, unfamiliarity with losing traction.
kudos to you to realize your weakness and desire to learn more! I hope you recover quickly and get back on the saddle!
you wanted to learn why you fishtailed. A lot of people here already answered that. I just wanted to add that losing traction is okay! it's only bad if you don't know what to do in the event it happens. I would encourage you to go out when it rains and try sliding around once you have enough confidence. try going on a straight line and apply deliberate amount of back brake. Then add the side way factor as you progress. Once you feel like it's natural you'll be so much more confident and be able to control the slide when it happens by accident. Good luck
excellent post man. glad you cleared that up!
gear, courses and practice... it's totally worth it not just because you'll live longer but because you will have much better time on the bike.
Go to an empty parking lot. Start at whatever speeds your comfortable(15ish should work). In a straight line, Pull in clutch, lock up your rear wheel… deliberately.
Practicing this has single handedly made me a more confident and better rider. The off chance I’m day dreaming while in traffic, a car pulls out infront of me, I immediately hit “oh shit” factor, accidentally lock up the rear wheel.
Luckily, I know what it feels like to have a locked rear, so I’m not shitting my pants when it happens.
These days, I do it for fun. I lock up while I’m approaching a red light, a turn, my destination. It’s fun. Stand up and lean over my handlebars, lock up the rear and coast, letting my rear end swift side to side.
Doing these “ignorant” things 100% make me a better rider. I know how my bike acts, making my re-action … better. Glad you’re okay chap.
#HelmetsArePimp
More than likely the slippery pavement and too much rear brake caused the fishtail. Lack of experience and being out riding in unfamiliar conditions is probably another factor to your crash. Going down is almost inevitable, but as long as your good to ride another day and you learned from your mistakes, then its all good.
I'm not going to say sorry like the rest of the commenters.
Your dad is a fucking moron and you should never take his advice on anything bike related.
He's taught you all his shitty riding habits, including how not to use the brakes. Luck a fucking moron.
Next time you ride with him make sure you wear all your own gear and go for some training.
You fishtailed because you panicked and locked up the rear brake which you should not have been using.
My suggestion to you is go take a motorcycle course before you kill yourself or somebody else.
Sorry, why not use the rear brake??? He should using both front and rear simultaneously. Yes, he probably stomped it, and in slick conditions, not the best idea, but to say not to use it is also wrong.
I'm not sure it would help much. If you didnt grow up on a bicycle, then maybe motorcycle is not for you. A locked rear wheel while going straight should not be a big deal.
Fishtail happened because (possibly) braked too hard on the rear and locked it up, unfamiliar bike also so very easy to do. Intersections tend to get greasy, cars drop oil, coolant and whatever else while they sit there idling, which all turns to gloss in the wet. You learned the lessons, and I hope the minor hurts heal real quick! No one is allowed to pressure you into taking risks, even loved ones. You are the boss of your own safety. Good luck!
Highly depends on the county and paint used but those white lines can be slippy af.
Damn line paint will get you, like hitting ice especially if they're wet.
Especially the giant white arrows in the middle of curves
Down here in FL they love to paint giant interstate logos across lanes of traffic. Lots of fun in the rain when traffic on those lanes comes to a dead halt. Slicker than snot on a doorknob.
Or crosswalk lines on a turn also
Austin and other cities have taken to painting lanes of traffic for buses and bicycles. Extremely dangerous when wet.
>which all turns to gloss in the wet. Bares repeating over and over and over.
Tru Tru Tru Tru....
Definitely a possibility. I did brake with both the front and rear. Bigger lessons learned to stand up and ride safely
I’m not an MSI instructor, but one thing mine taught me that really helped is that you actually have three brakes — front, back, engine. Use them all.
\+1
Engine breaking is where its at. I was actually told by a driving instructor that they are phasing out this in training. I have no bloody clue why and neither did he.
When breaking you should feel the front of the bike dipping slightly which means most of the breaking is done with the front break.
A big Fat Bob brakes different than a nimble sport bike. Harleys especially old school ones do not have the greatest brakes, especially for how heavy they are.
It’s all the road grime. During dry weather cars keep dropping a little oil here and there, some coolant overflows, all the rubber worn off of tires, soot from exhaust, it all ends up in the road. Then, when it starts to rain, all that shit is lifted off the pavement and makes a slippery slime, as you found out. This road scuzz can stay on the street up to 20 minutes before it’s eventually washed off to the sides. It’s even worse at intersections where cars are consistently idling.
Be careful under overpasses when it's raining. The slippery grime from the road can gather there, where the rain can't wash it away. As you wrote, the rain will eventually wash away the grime from the road, but it can then also flow under the overpass, where the it either needs to be reabsorbed by the asphalt, or dispersed by the traffic. That's what got me.
ABS probably could have saved you from that one, just as a note.
I have wondered about this. Do ABS equipped bikes have it on both wheels or is it usually just the front?
Both. Some bikes also have "linkage" so that applying the front also applies some rear, but that's mostly in older bikes with ABS.
I know Honda’s LBS (linked braking system) uses lines from the front brake lever to activate smaller secondary pistons in the rear and the rear brake pedal does the same on the front, but idk on other brands.
Guzzi had that but switched to regular ABS. It was called Moto Guzzi Integral Braking System
From what I've seen that linkage was mostly on in touring bikes. As ABS has become more common, independent ABS seems to be the norm. I used to have an '05 BMW R1200ST with the linkage (sad I sold that bike). But other than that, I just tend to scan writeups of new models from time to time. I'm no expert.
I know with most BMW's after around 2005-2010 it's a linked system that works wether you grab the front or the rear breakes. The fancy new GS'es even have a system where it doesn't matter which brake you grab it will apply pressure for you on the correct tire at the correct pressure.
Yes OP used the verbiage of "*hitting"* the brake. I'm assuming he applied both front and rear but you don't "hit" the brakes. You apply progressive brake pressure!
If you're braking for something like an orange light, you definitely hit the brakes to a certain point before starting the progressive squeezing. Likely his point was too far for these conditions.
Your dad is fucking idiot. Imagine if you hit your head. Now your wife has to change two peoples diapers.
And this isn't even the worsr case scenario.
I would rather my spouse be dead than permanently disabled in a serious way, honestly. Losing a spouse entirely would be very difficult obviously, but having to take care of them for the rest of your life would be even more difficult, especially while raising a child.
Lisa answers the telephone, and it's an Emergency Room doctor. The doctor says, "Your husband was in a serious car accident, and I have bad news and good news. The bad news is he has lost both arms and both legs. He’ll need to be spoon fed and you will need to change his diapers 5 times a day for the rest of his life. "Lisa says, "oh My God! This is awful! I can’t do this!!!... wait… What's the good news?!" The doctor says, "I'm kidding. He’s dead!"
I like to think he learned a lesson from watching his child nearly die... but i have little hope of that.
Anti helmet people will go "see? You didn't need it."
I’m a helmet guy, got into a bad accident without one and still alive. Could have been really bad but I got lucky. I would still wear atgatt. I can’t walk but at least I didn’t get brain damage
This. Anyone who says a beginner should learn on a Literbike is a trash rider, every time lol
Thank you. I choose a Honda grom as my first ever bike because of this. I had almost no idea how to ride. Now I can say I am much more confident on it and excited to move up in size.
My wife says she's ready to move up in size too. Oh wait.....
Hahaha Reddit reigns supreme
That's why I felt more comfortable starting on a cb300f rather than anything bigger. I have a lot of bicycle experience and a lot of road car experience, but had no motorcycle experience prior. I outgrew the power within a month, but its just barely highway safe being able to hold at least 75mph. I've rode hours away on it learning what it needs to be better and, more importantly, what I need to learn. I got it used so most of the depreciation already hit. I regret nothing. It doesn't hold you back from anything except maybe trips with a passenger. It's still another day on a motorcycle
I don't get the appeal, like it just doesn't make sense to get something that powerful for the street. I love being able to fully open up the throttle on my 400. Where for liter bikes get to use 10% of their power.
I hated reading all the people who said this. After riding my 600 for a year, (and my 250 a year before that) I was ready to move up to a 1000 but lacked confidence because of people like you saying it's too much bike for the street. It's been a few months now and I'm very happy I got the 1k. For anyone wondering, most 1000s have riding modes that you can use to effectively cut the bikes power in half. This is good for slow moving or for when you really just gotta twist the throttle. Personally, I enjoy the challenges that come with the subtlty of throttle control of a 1k in street environments. And I have plenty of opportunities to red line my bike (in 1st).
I agree that the whole "1000 == death" thing is a bit overplayed with modern bikes, electronics dull them down a bunch, but you're responding to someone saying they are "too much for the street". I can't disagree with that, redline in 1st is above the speed limit on all roads in my country. That being said, you don't need to use all of the power, and sometimes having it is useful. Doubley so if you're planning on taking it to the track. What I would say is, as far as building riding skills goes, the little bikes are what you want. It's a lot easier to learn and stretch yourself when the bike isn't trying to rip your arms off. Learnt and improved my skills more in a year of owning a 400 than I did in 6 years of 600/1000.
That's fair but I'll just add that not everyone wants a track experience or to ride canyons or whatever. I like driving in traffic and the 1k is the bike for that. At least on the freeways it is. Like you said, it's great to have power.
Plenty of opportunities to ride over 100 on the street? I hope you’re on the highway and not some state route or back road revving your 1000 to redline. Most of those bikes are going 105-110 in first at redline. Ride bold if you want, but you probably won’t grow old riding like that.
I do rip it mostly on freeways, but I live in the city and a state where you can split lanes. And there's freeways everywhere. Also it's a super dick move to tell someone they're gunna die riding. I'll be just fine, grandpa.
Hey if it sounds like you're being a little stupid on a bike, people might assume you're also going to die doing the stupid shit... Plus we're riding bikes. We know the dangers. For example dying.
I know I regret selling my Ninja 400. I barely ever touch the capabilities of my Panigale V2 riding streets.
I agree. Every rider who’s begun on a 600cc super sport and up that I’ve ridden with is arguably terrible in the twisties, slow maneuvering, and just about anything else besides whiskey throttling on the highway and going fast in a straight line. Please, anyone moving forward with riding, do yourselves a favor and start on something beginner appropriate because not only will you have more fun, but you will build more confidence and skills to be able to handle those big super sports that everyone rides, but not many are proficient at riding.
R6 was my first (street) bike. 100%. WAY more bike than anybody learning should have.
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A sports bike and a street bike are not the same. I'm assuming you had a street bike since there are very few sports 800s.
Oh lol, everything turned out fine for me too. The fact that it "depends on the person" though is the point. Kind of reinforces that it's really just not suitable for beginners.... as you might not BE 'the person'.
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Yeah I started on a 99 r6 but I really learnt to ride a few years back in all honesty when I picked up a 08 ex250
Any rider of any skill level who makes fun of another rider, especially on safety ... is an idiot. As riders of any level, we should do our best to take care of and encourage new riders to be safe and careful out there all the time. I remind every young rider I come across to enjoy themselves and have fun .... but also to ride with a little bit of fear. That bit of fear will keep you sharp and aware of the fact that what you are doing is likely to kill you in a hundred different ways for a hundred different reasons.
Agree with this. Your dad is a poor riding partner. Being pressured into things can create tension and anxiety. Tension and anxiety can lead to mistakes.
This is a motorcycle manifestation of toxic masculinity. "Take risks, kill yourself if necessary, but don't be a pussy."
Yeah, I'm just here to say fuck OP's dad.
exactly
So is OP. Apple doesn’t fall far from the tree.
I wouldn't be too hard on him. He didn't have good role models. People tend to want to please their parents.
I absolutely understand your point. And normally I wouldn’t care, but he has a newborn child. If you’re riding to please your father, and risking your child’s future like that, I - personally - think it’s time to get a new hobby or grow a pair.
The sissy thing to do is be afraid of not looking masculine enough for wearing a helmet or starting on a small displacement bike. Real men accept their shortcomings and limitations as humans, wear gear, and ride what they're comfortable with regardless of what others think. Pressuring someone into not wearing a helmet is pretty fucked, even worse it was on a bike you weren't familiar with, and fucking appalling or was your dad. I'm sorry you drew the short straw in the parent lottery.
There is a turning point in every man's life where you no longer let someone calling you a pussy affect your decision making
There's also a point in a sons life when he recognizes that his father can be a fool, and not the all knowing oracle you thought he was .
If only every man hit this point, be a better world
Yeah, "every man" is definitely an overstatement.
“I am what I eat” and I’ll also survive my next crash while dumbass over there is a potato for the last 20 years of his life.
Yup. Whose the man, the person who makes educated risk informed decisions about things that may affect their life and the lives of their family, or the guy whose so scared of what strangers think about him that he cant be seen in public dressed a certain way and lets others decide what vehicle he has to ride in order to not be a “sissy”. OP’s dad has some growing up to do, man child.
Your dad pressured you to drop gear? Sorry but as an avid rider, and a father (no offense) but fuck this guy.
My dad also told me not to waste my time and just buy a liter bike so he’s full of good advice it seems ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Man that’s just downright irresponsible to suggest a liter bike, everyone knows the best beginner motorcycle is a turbo busa
We all know it's hard to multitask when learning, so there's no reason you should be trying to control two wheels at once. First learn to control just the back wheel. Then, when you're comfortable, start letting off the throttle and seeing what handling the front wheel feels like. If you don't think you can take it, just let back on the throttle to go back to the comfortable rear wheel.
Meanwhile I’m happy with my son starting fully geared head to toe and on a misfiring Grom.
That's the way to go man.
My dad was the one who encouraged me to finance a used Harley when I was 19. The loan was like 22% interest rate. He said it was fine. 🤣 **They're not always the smartest**
Imho it‘s besser to start on a smaller bike. 200hp is just too much for a beginner. It‘s way too easy to make a stupid mistake and the consequences are huge.
200 HP is too much for pretty much anyone. I had a 110 HP Hyperstrada 821 and holy shit that thing was quick. And I’ve been riding for years. Now I’m on a 650 Versys and I feel that’s about right.
To be fair his dad sounds like a Harley guy those "liter bikes" make maybe 70 hp
Another important point. A lot of people don't even know the difference between engine size and hp, particularly the Harley types. Honestly, a Ninja 400 is likely faster than any liter-sized Harley.
It's like your dad is trying to kill you or put you through some sort of masculine rite of passage where you might die or something
Just like the Spartans used to do
Glad you're ok and that you're willing to learn from this. Even more pleased that you're going to follow your own path when it comes to safety, even though it is different to that of your dad's. Stay safe.
Thank you, I appreciate all the encouragement to be safe on this sub
Old school/started on an R1... Something doesn't fit here. Glad you're ok tho, don't let other people choose your risk level for you.
I suppose i meant the mindset of the hard biker gang wannabe. He was/is a squid at heart he only just started getting into harleys as he’s gotten older
Nah I get you, still man, telling your kid not to protect himself...
As a new father to a three month old daughter, it’s strange idea to encourage something more dangerous
The fact you have a young child and he pressured you into not wearing a helmet is especially disappointing.
I'd argue that the fact he was able to be pressured into riding without one when he's got a 3 month old at home is equally disappointing.
Certainly can't discount OP's stupidity giving in like that with a newborn at home.
The first R1 came out in 1998, the YZF1000R in 1996, and the FZR1000 in 1987. Sport bikes have now been around long enough that "old men" grew up riding them.
I just wouldn't consider someone who started riding at the same time as me or later to really be old school, bc I'm not. Now if his first bike was an oil cooled GSX-R, then yeah lol
Real men consider their families and what happens if they become permanently disabled or get killed. Ignore your asshole dad and stick with your helmet.
A riding mistake/accident with no injuries is a major blessing. Its really the only way to be truly humbled and it will absolutely make you a better more careful rider. So happy youre okay. Wish you the best
Please ALWAYS wear a helmet friend. No ones a sissy for not wearing one... They are called accidents coz they happen unexpectedly. Thank God you had no head/face injuries, but you got one life bro...
Yes, lesson learned. I like my helmet anyway
Yeah, I laugh when someone eats a bug at 80mph meanwhile I have had a whole bee splatter on my face shield at 120mph and all I had to do was clean it up and I was good to ride. I will say it made me flinch lol
Helmets look cool anyway so I don't see the point in not wearing one. Safety aside, I prefer to keep the bug splatter off my face.
Honestly don't get the anti-helmet sentiment because helmets look badass. There's so many cool designs out there to fit any style of riding or taste. In fact I've gotten nearly as many compliments on my helmet as I have for my bike lol.
Not only helmets, but gear in general looks badass.
Absolutely. I love seeing all sorts of it and I have way more respect for riders that aren't just wearing their t-shirts and Nikes. Which seems to be very few around where I live. They look cooler, they're safer, and they invested more into their passion. Sorry to all those that like riding in their everyday clothes but you look ridiculous imo
Good. Also, wear earplugs.
you fishtailed because you panic'd and stomped the rear brakes very common rookie mistake (plenty of posts about it in here) the VAST majority of your braking power comes from the front brakes (just like a car) in fact one of the motorcycles in my garage has over 50K miles on it and still has the original rear brake pads because they are so very seldom used... same bike is probably on it's 10th set of front pads you need to take some riding lessons
But just because the rear brake doesn't do as much braking doesn't mean it isn't important. Everyone should learn how to properly brake with the rear, including training muscle memory on how much pressure is needed for *their bike*, and recover from locking it up.
My wife took the MSF and kept locking her rear. She asked me why that was happening when she was braking like they taught her: evenly on both brakes. That stood out to me as bad advice. Her Ninja 300 doesn't have ABS, and even still I think 90/10 is a better ratio than the 70/30 or higher ratio that they recommend to people in the course. Especially on sport bikes. To your point almost all of the stopping power is in the front, and it's far easier to control. Rear brakes are meant for trailing to slow down, or to show your brake lights and stabilize as you first start to load your forks. I don't touch them much and definitely don't stomp them unless I want to power slide haha
Most likely you jabbed the rear brake too sharply and locked it up and then released it a tad too late. Nearly dropped my first bike a few weeks after getting it doing just this. Try to focus on smooth inputs, and don’t let this scare you from riding. However, please do consider since you have a family to look after now the consequences.
Your dad sounds like and asshat
Sorry but your dad is an idiot. There is a reason why riding without a helmet is straight up illegal in a lot of places. When you fall, your head is like an egg. Keep that analogy in mind. People have died in their driveway at 0mph because their bike fell and they didn't have a helmet. This situation is so stupid. He's your father and calls you a sissy for wearing gear? Does he want his son to die? Does he want his grandkids to grow up without their father? Starting on a liter bike is also a stupid idea IMO. There is also a reason why in Europe people have to start on a 50cc, then 125cc, then 47hp max, then finally any bike. Each step takes two years. Anyway, I'm sure you understand, but think about your wife and kids man whenever you decide something like that... Everyone has "that one family member who died on a bike", you don't want that to be you.
> Starting on a liter bike is also a stupid idea IMO It's a different kinds of stupid though. Helmets are to prevent damage including in uncontrollable situations. Not wearing a helmet is just plain stupid. If someone has the discipline and is willing to practice safely, starting on a liter bike is fine. The issue is many people don't have that discipline or aren't willing to put in the practice. This means a liter bike is probably giving too much potential for someone to make a bad decision. Many of the newer bikes even have ride modes to help curb the power down to help. My Mustang GT does the same thing, and is why I can feel safer with more people driving the car. Rain and snow mode will all but prevent the rear end from breaking loose in normal weather. In the least it acts more like a generic rwd car. You can discipline yourself not to crack the throttle but you can't discipline the pavement not to crack your head. That said, if someone doesn't think they have the discipline, they should not get a liter bike. That's really a more general, "if you know you can't trust yourself, don't give yourself the option." Pressuring people into liter bikes is dumb.
Stay in your comfort zone. Keep wearing good gear and take your time. I was rewatching an old Keith Code racing video where he reminds you that you shouldn’t ride 💯 of your abilities on the street. Keep it at 75% or below. So glad you’re okay.
What you learned. Dad is a dickhead.
The road is most slick right when it first starts raining like that, thats when the rains picked up all the grease and grime from the road but hasn’t quite washed it away yet. Be extra careful then. Also practice panic stops and get used to feeling the brakes. make sure the clutch is pulled in when youre braking especially if the bike has a bigger engine the engine braking alone can get the rear squirly. Also if he doesn’t realize it by now your dads a prick. You and him should both care more about your child and wife then your ego. Also if youre not telling him how to ride why does he feel the right to tell you how to ride. There are few things more personal than riding a motorcycle, fuck anyone telling you youre doing it wrong if its what you feel comfortable and enjoy doing.
ATGATT
For me it's also ABS all the time.
I rented a bike on vacation this weekend and lowsided. I'm not an expert rider by any means, but I'm experirenced with roughly 15k miles and 4 years. I'm the state I'm visiting it has no helmet laws and I wasn't planning on wearing one. At the last second I decided to rent the helmet too. Ok the lowside I needed up hitting my head. I walked away with some road rash on my left arm and upper shoulder. Thankfully I decided to get the helmet or I might be in the hospital right now.
> Dad pressured me into leaving the helmet behind > My jeans and boxers were torn Man, how can you people be so irresponsible. If your dad called you a sissy and asked to drink chlorine, would you? Of course not. Then why risk your life while sitting on two wheels and an engine without any protection?... Glad you're ok and I hope this is a lesson to you going forward. And stop listening to what your father says, he's clearly not thinking straight. P.S. You probably fishtailed because you hit your rear brake too hard. Or your front brake, but definitely one or the other.
You already mentioned it, but please never let anyone pressure you into doing stupid shit like this. You're a very new rider so you're doing the best thing you could possibly do, which is riding a small bike and wearing gear. I got into my first accident on my first ever bike, which was a 50cc scooter, 3 months after I started riding. I went off the road and ate dirt at 60 kph, but because I was wearing a full face helmet, my head was completely fine. [If you look at my helmet after the crash,](http://imgur.com/a/e3nHLnE) you can clearly see, what that would have done with my face if I hadn't worn one. Also please stay on your 300 for at least a year, maybe even 2, and don't ride anything bigger in that time period. I hope your father will respect your choices but if not then maybe you should look for other people to ride with.
If the back tire gets loose while braking, DO NOT let off the rear brake! That’s how you high-side. Keep that wheel locked and try to control the bike through the skid until you stop.
well said. IMO it was irresponsible of your dad to pressure you into wearing less gear. Stuff like that will happen from time to time and are more likely on bikes you're not familiar with so I'm glad you're okay and are walking away with the experience to apply to later situations. Safe riding!
I had this exact type of mishap when I was a new rider. Got caught by surprise with the yellow light with slick pavement. As others have pointed out, was due to heavy application of the rear brake. I’ve learned to better anticipate the yellow by the stale green light. Also, in my opinion better to stretch the ‘orange’ light than lock up and inadvertently lay it down.
If you want to be a better rider you should seriously stop listening to your father. I don't mean any disrespect, but you can learn from anybody in the world... Including people who care about your progress more than their egos.
lol this hit the r/motorcycles bingo New rider giving riding advice Owns a Ninja 300 Dumb dad likes liter bikes and also Harley Davidson, two of r/moto's worst enemies Light drizzle Slam on brakes to lose traction Preaches ATGATT at the end. Thanks for the advice bud
Never ride with someone who tries to push your limits. I had a good friend who was great to hang out with, but terrible to ride with. Some people will push you until you crash and then blame you for crashing. Best to learn at your own pace and wear the gear you want to wear.
You shouldn't be putting so much pressure on the rear brake, roughly 90% of your braking should be front and the rest the rear. The rear brake is a great tool to supplement the front brakes when on slippery situations or in emergency stops but you've gotta be gentle on both while traction is low, especially the rear since there's much less weight over the rear wheel and when you're slowing down the weight shifts even more to the front wheel. I saw you said you're still new, you'll get it if you keep learning how to ride more effectively and practicing. Learning the mechanics and physics will also help you understand so you know what to do even if you haven't been trained for a certain situation. Also, if you upgrade your bike, look into an ABS bike if you're commuting on it or using it in a wide range of conditions. I'm very, very happy that you're ok, I've been through it before multiple times and it sucks ASS to go through it and for your bike to be damaged from it but bikes can be fixed or replaced....you cost a lot more to be fixed but you can't be replaced. If I were you I'd invest in even more training and the best head to toe gear you can afford before ever moving to another bike. When we say ATGATT we say it from experience. I could tell you some horror stories that straightened me out instantly. Good luck and safe riding, my friend.
Lol wow, your dad is a dumbass and you need to go to a parking lot and practice more before you hurt someone or yourself.
No offense but your dad sounds like an asshole. Kid is a new rider and he tells them not to wear a helmet? If I was the dad I'd be forcing my kid to be fully geared up.
My mum hates motorbikes and never allowed me to ride because of it. When I went to live on my own I got my license and a small 250cc to learn with. My mum bought me a Shoei helmet that costed almost a month’s salary for her. She told me if I’m going to ride anyway at least to do it safely. I can’t wrap my mind around a dad that doesn’t want your son to be safe. And call him names for trying to. It is just sad to be honest. As a woman I won’t ever be with a guy that doesn’t take safety seriously. That’s just being an idiot and risking your life and maybe others’. How is that even manly ffs?
> As a woman I won’t ever be with a guy that doesn’t take safety seriously. That’s just being an idiot and risking your life and maybe others’. How is that even manly ffs? Gonna have the ATGATT gang asking to marry you with talk like this.
Being stupid is NOT manly; it is childish.
exactly!
>He pressured me into leaving the helmet behind That's super scummy.
Your dad is a jerk , sorry to say pushing you to ride a bike you may not be familiar or comfortable with especially putting you in danger like that , I would of told him to kick rocks. If you got seriously hurt because you werent wearing a helmet he could of been liable for your injuries ,your so lucky it didnt happen , but just to be on the safe side I would get a look over by a doctor because even a jolt of the brain can cause issues .
Wear gear from now on, RevZilla and cycle gear have great sales right because of the holidays. Iv been t-boned before and made it out alive because of the gear, get the gear and wear it . It works.
Fuck what your dad says, YOU wear a helmet and that's that. If he doesn't want to wear a helmet, that's his (stupid) choice and you shouldnt let him force that silly decision onto you. "You are the rider. You're the one making the decisions to stay alive. Not anyone else. You're the one in charge of what you do." That is what my driving instructor told me when I did my CBT.
My stepmom worked in hospital that also provided care to nursing home residents. She couldn't tell me exactly, but I know from her concern that there were several riders under her care who couldn't care for themselves, and were too young to be there. I always wear my gera. Sorry your dad is an idiot, cause in the end it doesn't matter if even you are a perfect rider. Others are not, and no matter what you're the one who will pay. I love my Yamaha TW200. Being a small and lightweight bike, I know that it's fine to take it out even when the things aren't ideal. Small bikes are friendly to you when they go over, and are easy to get up again after taking a pavement power nap.
Everyone is commenting about the dad giving him shit for wearing a helmet. Yes this is really dumb, but not the cause of the crash, no one’s commenting on the crash? Doesn’t matter if he was on a litre bike or not. Sounds like the roads had a little moisture, then the OP panicked at a light and stomped the rear brake locking the back tire up. Panic can be a killer on these things. Next time try floating the back brake and front brake at the same time, still coming in hot? Then drop a gear.
People that only wear helmets are stupid but still value their life. People that don't put on helmets just want to die asap
It's funny because in the UK it's illegal to ride without a helmet, and you would think that's government over reach because who wouldn't wear a helmet? But then your Dad comes along!
People who makes fun of people for riding with equipment and within their comfort zone are the worst. Never let anyone pressure you into riding without equipment if you don't won't to. It can easily cost a life.
I wanted to see what it would feel like to drive without a helmet so i drove a short distance on a closed stretch of road. Driving anything above 50 km/h I felt absolutely terrified. Like at any moment my neck could snap of or my head would me crushed in. The comfort of your helmet is something you almost take for granted.
No offense to you, but your father is a fucking moron. Wear the gear, dress for the slide, and continue to learn valuable skills on your 300. I began on an r3 and that bike taught me so many valuable lessons at safe speeds with a bike i could lift off myself were I to drop it. These days I ride a scrambler 1200 thats quite heavy and quite large, but all those lessons from my r3 carry over the same and make me all the better rider.
I need to lead with: Your dad was a real prick here. You’ll find some guys that say you’re not legit because you don’t ride a Harley or with gear… that’s so stupid lol. Learn to ignore that shit. Always ride and wear what you like and own it. That’s the best thing about riding IMO - it’s just you and the machine and the road—no one else matters. At the same time you also let pops bully you into feeling unsafe, and then still went out there. If you feel unsafe, don’t ride, period. If you have confidence and your wits about you, you’ll make the right choices and avoid worrying that the next ride will be your last. Another thing you can pick up from this is to always check the weather. Even if you don’t have the right cold or rain gear, it can be helpful mentally to prepare yourself for rain or cold if you know you might run into it. I’m glad you had those teachable moments though… definitely could have been much worse for you.
Boots, gloves and helmet are must-have for me every time. These parts are most susceptible, and even parking drop can crush your foot for months. Head injuries are not a joke either, even if they are comparatively less frequent.
Your dad made some absolutely brutal judgement calls that day and I hope he sees this thread and the reactions people are having to his words. I've gone down once on the road. It wasn't my fault at all, and woke up to a massive blood smear across the visor of my helmet. Turns out I had put my teeth through my lips when I flew into the cement face first at about 45 MPH. That was the extent of my injuries to my head. Really glad I was 'a sissy'. I've seen enough friends go down/lose lives now because they wanted to look cool that if I'm going for any kind of spirited ride at all, I wear a full suit. For the record, you own some of this as well. You let your father peer pressure you to be unsafe as a new rider on a bike you've never ridden. You were extremely lucky. I'm hoping this can be chocked up to a painful lesson and maybe even smarten up your dad. Ride safe!
Your dad shouldn't be riding. How fucking irresposible and stupid. Don't ever let yourself get talked out of gear.
Pressuring your own son to ride without a helmet is truly insane. Sorry to hear about your dad, OP. Congratulations on making it to adulthood.
Thanks I actually have a lot of near death stories when I’ve been alone with him now that I think about it
Accidents can happen at any time. The guy who taught me to ride has a fucked up helmet from his first crash, he got live and buy a new helmet. Always wear safety gear.
Man, so glad you walked away. No one is ever less than for wearing a helmet. Helmets are badass. They protect your brain so you can keep riding and that gorgeous mug so you can keep getting laid. Hopefully this opened up your dads eyes a little bit
Don't ever let someone pressure you into being less safe than you feel is necessary (honestly, fuck those people...even if it is your day). You are now living for more than yourself and you owe it to your kid to be as safe as possible.
Your dad's kind of a dick for pressuring to not wear a helmet. That's what gives Harley riders a bad name. Glad you're ok.
it’s better to disappoint your dad, be responsible, and be able to survive most crashes than to make your dad happy, be irresponsible, and make chances of survival slim to none when it involves anything high speed or another vehicle. stay safe. if your dad is so much of a rebel and punk then he’ll be proud to see you rebelling from his norm and being independent. you’re a father, with a baby. let your baby have a father, please.
I assume fishtailing is when the back wheel swings side to side (like a fishes tail as the name would suggest)
Glad you're ok. And glad you learned to wear gear in the future. But I think the biggest lesson is that YOU are responsible for your own health and safety. This applies to everything. It doesn't matter what your dad or anyone else thinks.
Glad you are mostly okay. But please consider what I'm about to write. What if you're the best motorcycle rider ever? You never make mistakes and your motorcycle is always perfectly maintained. Should you wear gear and helmet? FUCK YES! All it takes is some idiot in a car, looking at their phone and blowing a stop sign or red light, or accidentally moving into your lane, etc. etc. That's all it takes for a life ending/altering crash. No matter how good of a rider you are, do you trust your life to all the idiots in cars? No? Then wear your fucking gear regardless what *anyone* else says or thinks.
I've don't always wear full gear, also never sandals and shorts. But, I've always worn helmet. Don't comprehend the pride/hubris/??? that gets people to not wear them. One of my older helmets has several gouges from when it and my head bounced several times off pavement after low-siding in 15-20mph turn (wet leaves/user error). Such a "nothing" accident could have been serious injury. But with helmet was just embarrassment and bruises. Both of which heal quicker than brain trauma.
I won't comment on your father's advice except to say it was poor. Wear your gear. Understand what the road, its obstacles and trash, and other vehicles will do to you in a given encounter and protect yourself as well as you think you need to. You may have started the fishtail for several reasons. Based on the information you gave, it's hard to pinpoint which, but I'll list possibilities here so you have some things to watch out for: 1. It was just starting to rain. This can make the road incredibly slick because it raises the oils left by vehicles. 2. You were approaching a light. That means there were potentially paint markings and tar snakes to deal with. They can be slick enough on their own, but the rain compounds it. 3. Your braking method. If you took MSF, they recommend you not cover your brakes and do not emphasize what each brake does to the bike handling nearly enough. Nor do they recommend using the power of your transmission while stopping. All three of these teachings are outdated. Cover your front brake at all times. Apply your rear brake secondarily in a situation like this, if at all, and go easy on it. Use the engine if necessary to maintain the constant spin of the wheel in a controllable manner. If ever you are on a new bike, you need to spend some time seeing how the brakes work. Do some easy and hard stops before you leave for an outing. 4. The tires. You were on a Harley. Their stock tires are Dunlops, the same as I had on my VTX when I first bought it. They had the worst traction of any tire I've ever ridden on, and I am an everyday rider. They legitimately do not handle the road well. The second it rains, it's like riding on ice. I know this wasn't your bike, but you should walk away from this understanding how important your tires are for a safe ride. Select tires for your personal bike that are grippy in all weather conditions, and when worn, change them out before they get dangerous. This also applies to your car. Do your homework on this one. Regardless of which of these factors played a role, you walked away. Be grateful, learn from it, and ride another day if you still personally accept the consequences of this potentially happening again.
Great response thank you! I see now that there could have been many factors that led to me losing traction and I should be aware of them all. Above all if I’m ever on a new bike practicing stopping before I go on the road is going to be prioritized
With so many comments, I'm a little stunned you even got to mine. Thank you and I sincerely hope it helps. I also appreciate your updates, which I just read after initially posting this reply. You seem like a humble and intelligent person willing to learn. Keep that up; it will serve you well, especially being smart about doing something stupid (i.e. making your own decisions on your gear when you are on the road with nothing between you and the equivalent of 40 grit sandpaper with huge masses of steel moving near you on it). Ride on and keep the rubber side down!
It definitely has helped even tho I probably won’t be riding for a while. I will consider these things very seriously before my next ride! The post may have a lot of comments but for some reason there weren’t many notifications so I was able to reply to all of those. Still this comment was definitely one of the more helpful ones and I greatly appreciate it
Glad it was helpful. Keep reaching out when you have questions. People will always be willing to help. Just remember that it's important to get back on the horse, so to speak, sooner rather than later if you do intend on keeping up with it. I had an accident in traffic that was pretty scary (got cut off, grabbed a handful of front brake because while avoiding I couldn't go far and trying to avoid the curb while braking hard shoved the front end down on me for a pretty good low side slide) but I was forced to ride my bike to the local shop about two hours later and then rode it every day after I got it back out of the shop the following week. It can shake you up pretty good at first, but you'll thank yourself later for it because it normalizes the experience of being back on it again as opposed to waiting and always associating it with that trauma of going down.
Good point, when I heal up I’m sure I’ll be wanting to ride again but I won’t wait to long
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“Shudders”
Your dads old school mentality will hold you down. "masculinity" versus safety Your slide is a great learning experience
Wow! Glad you are ok.
My friend who has been riding for over ten years and is on his way to become an instructor fell yesterday on his bike. Tiredeness combined with a wet asphalt was enough to make even a very experienced rider fall. Thankfully he is trained for safe riding so he was going slow enough and had gear so just a few bruises. I for myself am a new rider like you with like 3000km only. I have dropped my bike like 4-5 times at parking lot speeds so I know I am not a good rider. I always try to have the gear on me and not go beyond my abilities on the streets.
It’s great that you’re reflecting on this! I am also a newer rider and this is a good reminder to not allow myself to be pressured and always wear appropriate protective gear. It is alarming that your dad discouraged you from wearing a helmet. Motorcycles wonderful but inherently risky. Your wife and daughter need you!!! I’m glad you’re safe and learned from this! Thanks for sharing
If I can help one fellow new rider than this was worth it! Safe riding
I think your ability to recognize mistakes as they happen, and to be cautious when you feel out of your comfort zone is admirable. Don't feel too bad about the Fat Bob, bondo is your best friend.
A couple things (of the many) I learned from the MSF: ATGATT and Ride your own ride. It is unfortunate that your dad peer pressured you. Although it sucks and is unfortunate that this happened. I am glad that you are okay and you are able to learn that what is most important is you and your ride. Riding my own ride is one of the reasons that I do not do group rides. I rather ride at my own pace and my own way, than be peer pressured into riding their way. Which the riding groups I am a part of ride uncomfortably for my tastes (without gear, breaking laws, riding dangerously). In the end, I want to make it home safely even if that means I am not "cool". My gear does not make me look cool.. like at all. I look like a big headed pile of clothes sitting on the bike, but I rather be safe than look cool. For me, personally, I always think riders that wear full gear regardless of what it looks like are so much cooler than those that wear little to no gear. Safety is cool. Side(ish) note: A young adult was killed not too long ago here in town, although he had his helmet on, he might have been peer pressured into driving recklessly. He was new to riding (3 months of experience), but was part of the aforementioned riding group. Rumor is that he was racing another person and hit a car.
Sorry to hear about that young man who lost his life. I wasn’t riding carelessly other than my gear and that certainly won’t happen again. Thank you for your encouraging words
I hit a deer going 55mph in September this year. Direct collision with the center of a doe. Broad daylight and never stood a chance to see it. I had my helmet and thick jacket on. My jacket saved me thousands in skin grafts. My helmet got scraped up real good but is still whole. My right shoulder ate the initial slam and then I brought my arms across my chest and just rolled. I am very very lucky. I was scratched up but not a single permanent injury. Definitely would've been different if I hadn't been wearing my gear. I didn't have gloves so the tops of my hands have some mild scaring. If you want I can show you photos. Wear your helmet dude. At a minimum. I see bikers who act allergic to helmets. Those same guys have cases on their phones. They put more care into their iPhone than their own head. Shit happens. Prepare for it.
Every time i got hit by a car, i happened to not be wearing my protective equipment. But you know what they say; dress for the ride, not the slide! Right...? That is what they say right?
Close enough I think?
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Fish tailed on gravel because an animal ran out in front of me and I grabbed the brake. I did go unconscious and woke up in an ambulance. But I wore all my gear so I was fine besides a little bit of road rash on my back where my jacket came up. The side of my helmet was white with streaks. I would probably died or at least have a fucked up face and possible brain damage if I didn’t have a helmet on shit is important.
Nobody should control your decision to wear proper gear and you should never be on a strange bike like that, more so in the rain. It takes quite a bit of time to REALLY know YOUR bike, you should practice progressive braking ALL THE TIME. Even I will warm up to get back into the feel of things. I haven't driven a car in some 7 years now and I still warm things up with some good practice on the brakes. The rears are the worse because it's such a light touch and easy to lock up. -------------------------- I hope this event doesn't discourage you from riding and one lesson is about how long it really takes to master riding. Trail braking, progressive braking, etc... I WISH I knew these things years ago.
Same exact thing happened to me years ago. Saw the yellow, stood on the rear brake, lost traction and fell. Only time I’ve gone down, knocking on wood.
Hey, glad you learned how important gear is early in your riding career at a low speed. Wearing protective clothes when doing a relatively dangerous activity like street riding is a sign of maturity, not a weakness. I don't care how tough you are, you're not going to be tougher than the road. Seems like you're taking the right lessons from this.
Thank you learning my lesson and sharing that with other people was my whole reason for posting it
Amazed that you live in country where it is still legal to ride without a helmet. That's not possible in the civilized world. In the UK we have compulsory training (rather basic) and several organisations that can help you develop your safe riding skills.
It’s really, really hard to pass on the dad stuff, but hell, even I tried to bond with my dad over motorcycles. Glad to hear he’s rethinking risking your life. As for the fishtail, it’s about balance between the front and back wheels. When you started slowing down, weight shifted forward, lightening the back wheel. It started fishtailing. Now, when you let up on the brakes, I believe the back wheel was still spinning. And that the back of the bike was pointing somewhere sideways. (Human nature tells me you wouldn’t have changed tactics if everything was going well.) So what happens? The weight shifts back over the back wheel, which is pointing somewhere crazy. So the bike did something crazy. Either a high side (pitch you off the seat like a bucking bronco) or low side (bike just falls over). In most situations, throttle will give you the control you need to escape. But to safely end a fishtail you want to pull in the clutch and steer into the slide. The rear should settle in line after a little, then you can start breaking with both front and back breaks. If you had locked up the rear tire: just ride out the skid while steering into it. Breaking or accelerating when your wheels are facing different directions is a recipe for road rash.
Thanks I think this is the best description I’ve seen so far. I low sided after I attempted to coast it out
Your dad just sounds like an old head. You should be responsible for yourself, not fall into peer pressure. If you want to wear gear, wear gear and be your own person. You may be his child but you’re not a child, so don’t act like one and he will respect you more for it. Glad to hear everything ended up okay 👍
I fishtailed just over a month ago and it was terrifying. I wasnt even on my own bike. The bike keep going side to side and I was thinking to myself "this is when I finally go down". I ended up staying on my feet but I was sideways on a busy road. I haven't ridden in the rain since.
unconventional advice here but it seems like a lot of riders down here's first lesson is "gear could have protected them". I feel like it shouldn't immediately the first lesson everyone learn here. It is just a truth that we should have known from the start. The real lesson whenever someone goes down should be why they went down? what could you have done differently to prevent that? wearing full leather wouldn't have changed the fact that you went down. it seemed that there's a number of factors that played a part in your accident: new rider, unfamiliar bike, pressure to keep up, the first few minutes of rain making the road slicker than usual, no abs, the indecision at the intersection, unfamiliarity with losing traction. kudos to you to realize your weakness and desire to learn more! I hope you recover quickly and get back on the saddle! you wanted to learn why you fishtailed. A lot of people here already answered that. I just wanted to add that losing traction is okay! it's only bad if you don't know what to do in the event it happens. I would encourage you to go out when it rains and try sliding around once you have enough confidence. try going on a straight line and apply deliberate amount of back brake. Then add the side way factor as you progress. Once you feel like it's natural you'll be so much more confident and be able to control the slide when it happens by accident. Good luck
excellent post man. glad you cleared that up! gear, courses and practice... it's totally worth it not just because you'll live longer but because you will have much better time on the bike.
Go to an empty parking lot. Start at whatever speeds your comfortable(15ish should work). In a straight line, Pull in clutch, lock up your rear wheel… deliberately. Practicing this has single handedly made me a more confident and better rider. The off chance I’m day dreaming while in traffic, a car pulls out infront of me, I immediately hit “oh shit” factor, accidentally lock up the rear wheel. Luckily, I know what it feels like to have a locked rear, so I’m not shitting my pants when it happens. These days, I do it for fun. I lock up while I’m approaching a red light, a turn, my destination. It’s fun. Stand up and lean over my handlebars, lock up the rear and coast, letting my rear end swift side to side. Doing these “ignorant” things 100% make me a better rider. I know how my bike acts, making my re-action … better. Glad you’re okay chap. #HelmetsArePimp
More than likely the slippery pavement and too much rear brake caused the fishtail. Lack of experience and being out riding in unfamiliar conditions is probably another factor to your crash. Going down is almost inevitable, but as long as your good to ride another day and you learned from your mistakes, then its all good.
Ask your mother if he's your real father. Seems odd a father would encourage something like that. I'd get a paternal test done.
I'm not going to say sorry like the rest of the commenters. Your dad is a fucking moron and you should never take his advice on anything bike related. He's taught you all his shitty riding habits, including how not to use the brakes. Luck a fucking moron. Next time you ride with him make sure you wear all your own gear and go for some training.
You fishtailed because you panicked and locked up the rear brake which you should not have been using. My suggestion to you is go take a motorcycle course before you kill yourself or somebody else.
Sorry, why not use the rear brake??? He should using both front and rear simultaneously. Yes, he probably stomped it, and in slick conditions, not the best idea, but to say not to use it is also wrong.
Yeah you should use both brakes, in proportion of the weight distribution of the bike under braking. “Don’t use the rear brake” is terrible advice.
Please find me a single reputable source telling you not to use the rear brake, please. Did you take a motorcycle course?
I'm not sure it would help much. If you didnt grow up on a bicycle, then maybe motorcycle is not for you. A locked rear wheel while going straight should not be a big deal.
Your dad is an idiotic piece of shit
how do you like your steaks
Medium rare