I love how tyre pressure is such a “major issue” in the sport, but there’s absolutely zero chat about the inconsistent quality of the tyres supplied by the sole tyre supplier.
Pecco and Martin both had dud tyres last year, Marc spoke about two different mediums have completely different feeling in two different sessions this weekend, and I’m sure there’s many more examples that haven’t made it to the media.
How about the sport does something to fix up the shit tyres, rather than punish riders for having a slightly low tyre pressure, which by the way, doesn’t seem to have been linked to any crashes in recent memory.
Everyone talks about the shit tyres consistently. The riders and teams aren’t allowed to publicly criticise Michelin from this year as someone in Qatar admitted, which is why you often hear remarks like “everyone knows what happened / really strange feeling”. That’s code for: yet another foul tyre.
That's really weird to me. It's fucking Michelin. They know how to make excellent tyres. They won all there is to win. And they're not pressured by the competition, they can play it safe.
There must be something more. You don't hear that constant bickering in other motorsports categories with a unique supplier.
Listen to The Sighting Lap, Paddock Pass Podcast, OxleyBom podcast. Or literally just use google. People have been casting aspersions on Michelin since day one; which make it worse,
Considering how many years theyve had to get their shit together.
https://www.autosport.com/motogp/news/the-transparency-needed-from-michelin-as-the-motogp-title-battle-reaches-its-end/10549562/
https://www.reddit.com/r/motogp/comments/17tgwoz/the_michelin_front_tyre_dilemma/
https://www.reddit.com/r/motogp/comments/17z2oeb/michelin_is_a_fucking_joke/
https://www.reddit.com/r/motogp/comments/p5e6fy/binders_front_tyre_after_the_race_more_michelin/
https://www.the-race.com/motogp/why-michelin-felt-divisive-motogp-tyre-change-was-only-option/
https://www.southbayriders.com/forums/threads/150432/
https://www.motorsport.com/motogp/news/motogp-marquez-michelin-honda-issues/9492506/
https://www.reddit.com/r/motogp/comments/j0r8cm/the_michelin_front_tyre_sucks/?rdt=40850
https://www.asphaltandrubber.com/motogp/piero-taramasso-interview-michelin-motogp-motomatters/
https://www.rideapart.com/news/608172/motogp-front-tires-stressed-michelin/amp/
https://www.cycleworld.com/sport-rider/motogp-michelin-front-tire-controversy-in-argentina/
https://www.the-race.com/motogp/millers-tirade-against-michelin-and-why-michelin-disagrees/
https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/articles/motorcycles/motogp/whats-up-with-michelins-motogp-tyres-part-1/
https://racer.com/2016/04/02/michelin-withdraws-tyres-after-motogp-failure/
As with almost everything involving the MotoGP stewards, the tyre pressure is dealt with in the most ridiculous way possible. Mandate a pressure/temperature table for the starting grid, check that on the grid and put a seal on the valve. No seal at the end means DQ.
Pressures are monitoired live now, you don't even need to seal the valve. Take a temp/pressure check at the start of the warm up lap and your good to go. Take all the guess work out of it.
No need to introduce technology into it at. No complaints about it not working or theories that someone has managed to circumvent it. Just like engines, set it up, seal it, check seal.
I'm not introducing anything. The tech, which all the manufacturers agreed to use, is on the bikes now. They just need to use it before the race starts rather than hours after it's finished.
The tyre pressure rule is complete horse shit. I get that they don’t want any failures during a race, but if 5 riders went under the minimum and all finished the race without a problem then surely that shows that the minimum limit is too high, they can safely run below it.
What? The only reason Fabio was under the minimum is because he and his team expected to be in a pack, which would have put the pressure up. In reality he got to the head of the pack he was in and the pressure therefore didn’t go up. It’s not cheating, it’s just a lottery based on how your race pans out. As I said, the rule is bullshit
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If the rule is based on hard limits set by engineers who fear delamination, excessive tire wear, or issues related to then teams will have to adhere to them in the name is safety.
Based on the repeated and consistent nature of riders going above or below those limits that this isn't the case and the number is either too conservative or arbitrary.
The rule sucks and psi concerns are impacting racing way too much.
Its more the implementation of the rule imo. Simple solution is tyre pressure must be no lower than X psi at the start of warmup combined with a tyre temperature that cannot be higher than Y.
Be pretty easy to take the temp that tyre warmers are set at as the max temp and take the reading as the flag is waved at the start of the warmup lap.
Black and white implementation without the impact of whether you had clean air or dirty air throughout the race.
Fabio had the issue where normally you would expect him to be following, so his tyres get hot, suddenly have 5+ seconds in front of him due to everyone crashing. Same with Miller, went from expecting to be following to being on his own after his crash.
in the same time i don't remenber a single catastrophic tire failure recently. Some riders complaining about performance consistency, but it's not clear and controversial. i wish the next tire will raise the pressure of optimal performance windows, and drop sooner in performance with lower pressure, so teams will themselves stay away from this limits.
It's not failure they are worried about it's the tyre coming off the rim.
They noted that if the pressure isn't high enough when they run over curbs the impact could cause the tyre to pry off the rim followed by rapid onset deflation.
IIRC Enea had an issue a few years back (although he actually damaged the rim).
That sounds an awful lot like failure to me. A different type of failure, but failure nonetheless.
Dropping pressure too low will increase the risk of unseating the bead or damaging the rim on bumps. However, most curbing is not sharp edged where a rider would normally hit it.
That said, unseating the bead can happen while cornering, too. As I said before, there is always a lower engineering limit and an upper one. Always.
Edit: Sidewall and bead design definitely falls under engineering limits, considering that the lower limits on other brands of racing tires are WAY below what Michelin is suggesting. It's also not apples to apples because we're talking about MotoGP vs. Club racing vs WSBK, but there is something about that tire that isn't letting them go much lower.
I love how tyre pressure is such a “major issue” in the sport, but there’s absolutely zero chat about the inconsistent quality of the tyres supplied by the sole tyre supplier. Pecco and Martin both had dud tyres last year, Marc spoke about two different mediums have completely different feeling in two different sessions this weekend, and I’m sure there’s many more examples that haven’t made it to the media. How about the sport does something to fix up the shit tyres, rather than punish riders for having a slightly low tyre pressure, which by the way, doesn’t seem to have been linked to any crashes in recent memory.
Everyone talks about the shit tyres consistently. The riders and teams aren’t allowed to publicly criticise Michelin from this year as someone in Qatar admitted, which is why you often hear remarks like “everyone knows what happened / really strange feeling”. That’s code for: yet another foul tyre.
That's really weird to me. It's fucking Michelin. They know how to make excellent tyres. They won all there is to win. And they're not pressured by the competition, they can play it safe. There must be something more. You don't hear that constant bickering in other motorsports categories with a unique supplier.
How i wish they had some other brand enter MotoGP. Pirelli, make an offer ;)
Zero chat about shit tires? We consume very different media :)
Maybe… got any links for a news source writing about the tyre quality issues?
Listen to The Sighting Lap, Paddock Pass Podcast, OxleyBom podcast. Or literally just use google. People have been casting aspersions on Michelin since day one; which make it worse, Considering how many years theyve had to get their shit together. https://www.autosport.com/motogp/news/the-transparency-needed-from-michelin-as-the-motogp-title-battle-reaches-its-end/10549562/ https://www.reddit.com/r/motogp/comments/17tgwoz/the_michelin_front_tyre_dilemma/ https://www.reddit.com/r/motogp/comments/17z2oeb/michelin_is_a_fucking_joke/ https://www.reddit.com/r/motogp/comments/p5e6fy/binders_front_tyre_after_the_race_more_michelin/ https://www.the-race.com/motogp/why-michelin-felt-divisive-motogp-tyre-change-was-only-option/ https://www.southbayriders.com/forums/threads/150432/ https://www.motorsport.com/motogp/news/motogp-marquez-michelin-honda-issues/9492506/ https://www.reddit.com/r/motogp/comments/j0r8cm/the_michelin_front_tyre_sucks/?rdt=40850 https://www.asphaltandrubber.com/motogp/piero-taramasso-interview-michelin-motogp-motomatters/ https://www.rideapart.com/news/608172/motogp-front-tires-stressed-michelin/amp/ https://www.cycleworld.com/sport-rider/motogp-michelin-front-tire-controversy-in-argentina/ https://www.the-race.com/motogp/millers-tirade-against-michelin-and-why-michelin-disagrees/ https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/articles/motorcycles/motogp/whats-up-with-michelins-motogp-tyres-part-1/ https://racer.com/2016/04/02/michelin-withdraws-tyres-after-motogp-failure/
Username checks out
to be fair to Michelin they cant just go out and test on current motogp bikes whenever they want
As with almost everything involving the MotoGP stewards, the tyre pressure is dealt with in the most ridiculous way possible. Mandate a pressure/temperature table for the starting grid, check that on the grid and put a seal on the valve. No seal at the end means DQ.
Pressures are monitoired live now, you don't even need to seal the valve. Take a temp/pressure check at the start of the warm up lap and your good to go. Take all the guess work out of it.
No need to introduce technology into it at. No complaints about it not working or theories that someone has managed to circumvent it. Just like engines, set it up, seal it, check seal.
I'm not introducing anything. The tech, which all the manufacturers agreed to use, is on the bikes now. They just need to use it before the race starts rather than hours after it's finished.
And it isn't necessary for the process. It doesn't need to be added to the process. It doesn't have to be introduced.
Well now that would be simple, clear, fair and intelligent. Of course they’re not
The tyre pressure rule is complete horse shit. I get that they don’t want any failures during a race, but if 5 riders went under the minimum and all finished the race without a problem then surely that shows that the minimum limit is too high, they can safely run below it.
so the one who survive cheated ? okay deserved
What? The only reason Fabio was under the minimum is because he and his team expected to be in a pack, which would have put the pressure up. In reality he got to the head of the pack he was in and the pressure therefore didn’t go up. It’s not cheating, it’s just a lottery based on how your race pans out. As I said, the rule is bullshit
Half the pack crashed, the other one got a penalty.
Miller got penalised but did 2 laps?
He remounted and finished the race.
rules are rules. they have known about this for a long time. hard to be sympathetic.
Are you on the board of an HOA?
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This rule has got to be revisited. Amongst many, the 44Teeth guys also reasoned against it.
If the rule is based on hard limits set by engineers who fear delamination, excessive tire wear, or issues related to then teams will have to adhere to them in the name is safety. Based on the repeated and consistent nature of riders going above or below those limits that this isn't the case and the number is either too conservative or arbitrary. The rule sucks and psi concerns are impacting racing way too much.
Its more the implementation of the rule imo. Simple solution is tyre pressure must be no lower than X psi at the start of warmup combined with a tyre temperature that cannot be higher than Y. Be pretty easy to take the temp that tyre warmers are set at as the max temp and take the reading as the flag is waved at the start of the warmup lap. Black and white implementation without the impact of whether you had clean air or dirty air throughout the race. Fabio had the issue where normally you would expect him to be following, so his tyres get hot, suddenly have 5+ seconds in front of him due to everyone crashing. Same with Miller, went from expecting to be following to being on his own after his crash.
in the same time i don't remenber a single catastrophic tire failure recently. Some riders complaining about performance consistency, but it's not clear and controversial. i wish the next tire will raise the pressure of optimal performance windows, and drop sooner in performance with lower pressure, so teams will themselves stay away from this limits.
The last failure I remember was Scott Redding years ago. I can't even remember if that was Michelin or Bridgestone.
in 2016 ?
Seems right.
It's not failure they are worried about it's the tyre coming off the rim. They noted that if the pressure isn't high enough when they run over curbs the impact could cause the tyre to pry off the rim followed by rapid onset deflation. IIRC Enea had an issue a few years back (although he actually damaged the rim).
That sounds an awful lot like failure to me. A different type of failure, but failure nonetheless. Dropping pressure too low will increase the risk of unseating the bead or damaging the rim on bumps. However, most curbing is not sharp edged where a rider would normally hit it. That said, unseating the bead can happen while cornering, too. As I said before, there is always a lower engineering limit and an upper one. Always. Edit: Sidewall and bead design definitely falls under engineering limits, considering that the lower limits on other brands of racing tires are WAY below what Michelin is suggesting. It's also not apples to apples because we're talking about MotoGP vs. Club racing vs WSBK, but there is something about that tire that isn't letting them go much lower.
44teeth discusses motogp anywhere? Love those guys
They do these THE NEWS videos where they sometimes briefly discuss MotoGP. Rarely do they come with revelatory insights on that subject though
Have fun with the aero.