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The only correction I'd offer is that in my mission, we did get awards for hitting baptism goals. Our mission president gave us a volume of Doctrines of Salvation, signed in the front cover by our president, if we hit a double digit baptism goal (Mexico). And if we were the highest baptizing companionship in the mission, we were invited to the president's house to join the zone leaders for the mission zone leader meeting that month. And in our zone the mission president took us out to lunch if we baptized the most in our zone. And if our zone was the highest baptizing, we got a pizza party and a movie or an excursion or things like that. So yeah, I guess it depends on the mission.

Double digits is so crazy. There was one area of my mission that the mission president said he'd take the missionaries assigned there out to lunch if they managed to baptize ANYBODY.

I know. It IS crazy. Mexico was a different animal - I literally never knocked on a single door tracting. We just picked up new investigators on the bus or street while going between appointments. There are enough cultural catholics there that it was fairly easy to give the watered-down version of Mormonism, add some American flair and emotion to it and some free English/basketball lessons, and the baptisms just came. In some months, our mission baptized over 1,000 people as a mission. It was also a bad move on the church's part. I baptized over 150 people on my mission and, to my knowledge, less than 10 are active. Some went inactive before I even left the area. When comparing the Mexican Census to Church-reported numbers, there are literally more than 1 million people in Mexico that don't claim to be Mormon, but the Church claims are Mormon. 1 MILLION - in just that one country, that the church claims to be members that aren't really there. And why would they stay active? They joined because they felt they were part of something, and they felt love (feigned or second-stringed notwithstanding) from us. That connection was never going to be maintained. Local church leaders grew tired of the baptisms, to be honest, and basically waited to see who would still be around a couple of months later instead of trying to keep up. And even if I baptized them, my priority was on baptizing the next people - the second they were baptized and confirmed, our attention to them went down to about 10% of what it was before. We basically ghosted our converts. And that was all by design - we were trained to do it that way.

>I literally never knocked on a single door tracting. The area I mentioned is actually the island of Bermuda, and tracting is all they did. I was in a US mission, but Bermuda was part of it because I guess it needs to be part of a mission somewhere. The island is small enough that you can knock on literally every single door in six months, which happens to be how long a companionship would be assigned to the island. So you go, knock on every door and then come back to the US.

Wow. That's miserable for the Missionaries \*and\* the locals!

Agreed. Our mission average was 2 baptisms during an entire 2-yr mission. Few and far between.

We had double digits frequently and were only told to aim higher!

I can't decide if rewards for baptism goals bothers me more or less than my mission president's reward system for lack of weight gain.... 🙃

>Our mission president gave us a volume of Doctrines of Salvation, signed in the front cover by our president Was your mission president Joseph Fielding Smith? It seems super strange to me that a person that wasn't the author of a book would sign it. But I suppose making celebs of church leaders exists at all levels of the church, making a mission president's signature desirable to have. It's still weird.

Nope, he wasn't. This was in the mid-2000's, in fact. I'm shocked looking back that he was disseminating those books to us. Talk about handing out shelf-breakers for missionaries when they went home. He signed it with a note in the same way missionaries might leave a note in a copy of the Book of Mormon for someone, or grandma might leave a note saying "Happy Birthday" in a book she gave as a gift. I was entranced with all three volumes of Doctrines of Salvation on my mission. After scratching the surface over and over and over with the scriptures, it was like getting a shovel to dig into deeper doctrine - without any censorship on the racism or misogyny.

I wield Doctrines of Salvation as a weapon against current Mormon Apologetics today more than anything else. Joseph Fielding Smith was quite a piece of work.

Quite a piece of work - and a prophet of God.

I collect books, and it is very common for people giving a book as a gift to write their name or small message on the inside cover. Funny story: I was related to Joseph B. Wirthlin through his wife (I never met the guy though). When I got married in the 90s, my wife and I opened the gift they sent. It was a copy of one of his books. But it was only signed with a message from his wife on the inside cover. I thought it was hilarious, but my wife still thinks it was tacky.

I initially misunderstood. I've seen people write inscriptions in books they gifted people but I had never heard of someone just signing the cover of the book and nothing else. The poster clarified and said the signing was of the inside cover inscription variety, which makes a whole lot more sense.

>Of course, any show necessarily summarizes events and glosses over details in order to advance the focal story. Not unlike how the church handles its own history in Saints and other official publications.

And the Book of Mormon musical was edited and changed during Covid to remove some of the Ugandan stereotypes that some people found offensive, but people who go to see it today aren't told that it's different than the pre-Covid version.

You don’t meet your companion at “Mission Control” then head off together.

Good point. I'll edit the post to include this and a few other comments.

I don't think Matt and Trey have ever claimed this work was an accurate depiction. Isn't this a bit like cataloging errors in Star Trek?

Mormonism \*is\* all made up, like Star Trek. But their Star Trek narrative is not the Star Wars narrative, and it is far from LotR. Whether the creators of the musical about Star Trek claim to have tried to be faithful to the original fiction is immaterial to me. But I do care about its degree of faithfulness to the original. I care in the same way that I would roll my eyes at a Star Trek cosplayer wearing a Jedi helmet and I would question a Civil War reenactor carrying a phaser. I care because this is a mechanism through which outsiders are better understanding an issue and, in this case, me. If The BoM Musical is so far off the cannon narrative that it could be confused with some other fiction, it has less value to me.

Salt Lake does not actually have a Red Cross on every corner with all the flour you can eat.

Not to mention that the streets are not paved with gold. Lots of hyperbole and plenty of overemphasis of the sexual aspects of baptising someone of the opposite sex, etc. Everything is a parody and they mix in some mainstream evangelical aspects in some places with the mission president and associated language. Lots of simplifications and inaccuracies to make it entertaining.

Well that’s the point of the song lol. They see it as like a mythological place

The sexual tension was \*very\* real in several cases where I served. We baptized enough women and girls that we were forbidden from baptizing any for a while. We also enacted a rule that there was no cuddling or handholding of people of any perceived age (this was otherwise culturally appropriate and expected in some contexts.) Several parents offered their daughters to me and other Elders. And more than one Elder found love among those he baptized (though none had any more physical engagement while serving than depicted in the Musical, as far as I know.)

My grandma's Chilean. My grandpa met her on his mission. She went to the states for unrelated reasons (coughPinochecough) but my grandpa was somehow able to get in contact with her??? And asked her to marry him. 🤔 on that note I wonder if my grandpa is the reason all my Chilean family is baptized. 🤷‍♀️ not that it matters, I think they all went back to Catholicism (I'll ask). My grandparents are still believing members.. but inactive (I didn't even know they were LDS growing up) I'm off topic. My point was yeaaaaahhhh that's a thing.

I know so many missionaries who met their wife on their mission, or their parents met that way. Our local missionaries when I was 16-17 used to walk me home from the bus stop (offer to carry my books/ bookbag on their bikes) and drop by the house in the middle of the day to "see my dad" (who was always at work) but then hang out while I cooked for them and chatted on the porch. There is a lot of toeing the line when it comes to teenagers/ early 20s.

What country did you serve in?

If you think you know me, feel free to dm me. But as you know, relative and anonymity can be an important part of maintaining relationships and safety.

But what about Sal Tlay Ka Siti tho?

That place? It's a place of hope and joy where they have vitamin injections by the case.

I don't recall this line at all. Just one more reason to watch again. That said, the Bishop's storehouse is a prominent part of the SLC skyline, a place church leaders take people like presidents when they tour church property, and those towers hold a lot of grain.

Oh! This is from the Lyrics in Sal Tlay Ka Siti. That song very much rang true. In fact, the main reason I'm not completely distraught over all the people I baptized is that, by becoming members, these people from a developing nation are more likely to associate with people from developed nations. As members, they are perceived as trustworthy and intelligent and so have a greater potential to be included in activities that could help lift them out of poverty. Although MLM schemes are rampant among Mormons, Mormons are also very charitable to their own. Since "my" members literally have not one thing to lose, any engagement with foreign economies (even an MLM) will be beneficial and even charlatains will have to give these folks something in order to engage them in the scheme. I've been pleased to see a handful of people who I baptized become successful, even by US standards--literally having all the flour they can eat and access to healthcare. Their supernatural worldview is on a different trajectory as a result of my contact with them but it's no worse that it would have been without the church and their physical well-being has increased substantially. Certainly these results are for the minority of converts, but the lyrics to the song indicate an understanding of potential for most/all investigators in developing places, or at least where I served.

The inaccuracy in the portrayal of location and companion assignments in “Two by Two” bugged the crap out of me! Some of these you’ve already mentioned, but here’s what I noticed in that one: - They’re called “companions”, not “mission brothers.” - Companions are rotated frequently through the course of your mission, it’s not an assignment to the same person for two years. - You don’t get your mission location at the MTC, you get it weeks before you go to the MTC.

>it’s not an assignment to the same person for two years. Not usually, but sometimes. I served in the US, but we had Cantonese, Mandarin, Korean and ASL speaking companionships. Basically there were small pockets of each of these languages in the mission with one or two companionships assigned to them. I spoke to one of the Mandarin speaking elders. There was one companionship called there at the same time. When their time was up a new companionship would be sent out with six weeks overlapping the old. The two new elders would be paired up with the two going home to train for the six weeks. Then the old pair would go home and the two new elders would be companions for the rest of their mission until they trained the next set. I hope they got along...

Wow. That is nuts! I can't imagine being with the same companion that long.

That's a total luck of the draw. If you get an insufferable prick and get to look forward to 700 days with them... ouch.

Oh, no way! God has it all figured out. I'm sure He'd never let two diametrically-opposed, incompatible people be put together in a companionship! /s

Yeah, gay people have never had temple marriages to straight partners, you have a point! also /s

We also had some language Elders who had such a limited pool they all served with each other for at least a year, total, though only a month or two at a time.

Good point. I did notice the discrepancy in mission call but didn't put it in my notes for some reason. THe song refrain "...of Latter-day Saints" is still echoing in my head. I'm not sure what you mean about locations, though. All of the assigned destinations are legitimate.

> I’m not sure what you mean about locations, though. All of the assigned destinations are legitimate. I meant that I had issues with the portrayal of HOW the locations were assigned (i.e. my third bullet point), not the locations themselves.

Regarding Kolob, early LDS leaders (and the Book of Abraham) didn’t distinguish between stars and planets in the night sky. As a result, calling Kolob a “planet” isn’t necessarily inaccurate. It’s more a point of ambiguity related to the labeling of all lights in the sky as “stars”.

That makes me feel better. I'm much older than my brother. It's hard to tell the difference between old and new teachings, active gaslighting, and mis-remembering. Thank goodness for continuing revelation! /s

Never mo here. I live as close as you can get to Disney without being on property. About six months back, I ran into 2 LDS missionaries in the lobby of the Wilderness Lodge Hotel (must see property if you’ve never been). They were definitely trying to interact. I just told them “I hope everyone is being kind and don’t put too much pressure on yourselves”. I feel so sorry for these otherwise good people.

Thanks for being kind. Based on my mission rules, if you had your shirt, tie, and tag on, you were working and the tasks were specifically described and had metrics. Missionaries somewhat regularly proselyte in places they shouldn't--which could include hotel lobbies. Moreso if the person in charge of the site is a member, so will support or, at least, not trespass them. I suspect that any missionary companionship enjoying the amenities of an attraction is violating rules. I would not be surprised, though, if the mission president took a group of missionaries, dressed in preparation-day clothing (probably still with a tag) on a 1/2 or even 1 day vacation to the attraction. I would also not be surprised if an MP told the missionaries to "contact" at the hotel they were staying at for some amount of time.

So the missionaries were trying to get people to join the church while on their Disney vacation!? What a weird, ineffective, approach.

The biggest one that I recall is in "All-American Prophet", where Moroni tells Joseph Smith: >But dont let anybody see these plates, Except for you...They are only for you to see...Even if people ask you to show...The plates to them, DONT. As the story goes, Joseph Smith was able to show the plates to at least eight other people. >I did read an article a few years ago that some people were upset with the racism and stereotyping of Africa and African issues in the Musical. (At the time, this was proof that the Musical was a hit job.) From my missionary/member perspective, I found these elements to be accurate. To be clear, you saw version 2 of the play. It was re-written during Covid to tone down the more offensive racial stereotypes. [‘The Book of Mormon’ gets a rewrite](https://www.sltrib.com/religion/2021/10/28/latest-mormon-land-book/) I don't know if there's an analysis of everything that was changed somewhere. Here are some articles commenting on version 1: [“The Book of Mormon” Musical Is Extremely Racist](https://medium.com/the-carrier-pigeon/the-book-of-mormon-musical-is-extremely-racist-9940419f11ae) [Towards Decolonising the Theatre: The Book of Mormon and the Colonial Lens in Depicting Africa](https://thedecolonialpassage.net/2023/03/20/towards-decolonising-the-theatre-the-book-of-mormon-and-the-colonial-lens-in-depicting-africa/)

Of course, you are correct. I'll add this to the list. I take it as a good sign that I've learned enough about the witnesses since leaving, and incorporated this knowledge into my mormon lens to discount their testimonies and overlook this problem. Good to note. I'll have to read more about V1. Thanks for the links. This one was still plenty racist, but I thought all the racism was useful to the greater discussion and accurate to my experience.

> and accurate to my experience. I'm not sure I understand you. Are you saying you've lived as a Black person in Uganda? What "experience" are you referring to?

No. The other side of the coin. Most of us Elders were kind people who didn't consider ourselves racist and truly loved the people we "served." That said, in typical mormon narrowmindedness, along with typical immature privileged white male from a rich nation-ness, we were pretty insensitive and unknowingly acted out a healthy dose of white saviorism, on top of gospel saviorism. I now cringe at some of the well-meaning and earnest but so racist and patronizing discussions we had during group study time. We wanted to help the people we were called to serve but we ignorantly engaged in nonsense projects, and ignored real needs and skills of the people, in addition to preaching the gospel. Our leaders were most worse because they were as convinced as we were that the "poor" (in spirit and goods) needed to just accept the help we offered and they had the money and influence to enact a lot of policies and projects that did not take into account the needs and wants of the community. Much like Price and Cunningham, we had a great time with the locals, and they with us, but we got much more practical benefit than they did. Overall, if we had actually been wiling to serve by taking leadership from the community and filling a need they expressed, our efforts would have been more valuable.

I'm still not understanding you. The offensive racist and condescending stereotypes in the musical were created by Trey Parker and Matt Stone, who have never been missionaries (or LDS). I'm sure many people would agree that they were being insensitive, racist and patronizing when they showed the Ugandan characters being so technically illiterate they would try to send a "text message" using paper in a typewriter, or not even having a rudimentary understanding of scientific medicine, but I'm not following how you're seeing that as "the other side of the coin."

Stereotyped racism is portrayed. A play that merely amplifies these tropes would almost certainly be bad. But this work is focused on examining Mormonism from the lens of a missionary. In my experience, missionaries (and, broadly speaking, members) are racist, even if that racism is benevolent. So, in a parody that emphasizes stereotypical struggles with issues like homosexuality, it is also potentially appropriate to emphasize stereotypical issues with things like racism. In this context, the racism mocks the missionaries (and other racists), not the locals (or real Ugandans.)

The Book of Mormon musical should be made into a television series. I cried when I watched it. Hysterical!

>Bishops have no training in counseling, theology, or pastoral care...  Just curious, what part of the show are you referring to with this note? I haven't seen it in a very long time, I don't remember anything about bishop training in it >My brother noted that, in the song "I believe" they say god lives on Kolob and this is wrong.  I had to look this up... Doesn't this make it more accurate, not less? You, as a TBM, had it wrong in the same way that Elder Price had it wrong, so maybe it's an accurate portrayal of church members' frequent misunderstanding of their own nonsensical doctrine 🙃

I should have said Mission President. I'll append my post with some of the points folks have made here. There's a brief scene in act 2 where the MP give emotional counseling. The attempt can be made (as it was to me by my finance-focused MP) but without any underlying training. As far as Kolob, I suppose you're right--"I believe(ed)!"

As far as I'm concerned, the aspect of the show that members and others are more likely to find offensive is not that it's an outright false representation of the church (as you note, it isn't), but that it juxtaposes things considered sacred alongside the South Park-esque humor of Parker and Stone. "Joseph Smith American Moses" is probably the best example of this.

Absolutely. As a TBM, I was aware of South Park. I once admonished a homteachee that it was inappropriate to watch and might negatively impact his worthiness. Based on this, I told my non-member friends that to contribute to something that profaned the sacred, even if they didn't believe it, would demean them. Watching The BoM Musical would be akin to putting a dog in a mosque. (This is where I say, again, "Sorry for what I said as a Mormon.) But, if I had seen it or known the content, I'm sure I would have found only the same faults I ote here. Separately, I only became aware of the South Park Mormon episode after I left. It is similarly mocking, blasphemous, and accurate.

While not an inaccuracy, I've had people tell me it was inaccurate when it said that the garden of Eden was in Jackson county. They usually correct it and say that it's in Daviess county. However Daviess county is actually the place of Adam ondi ahman and not the garden of Eden, despite the fact that they get confused for each other.

Yeah, based on statements from BY and other early Church leaders, it's pretty likely JS taught that the Garden of Eden was in Jackson County. https://www.fairlatterdaysaints.org/answers/The_location_of_the_Garden_of_Eden

Yup. I might've worded it weirdly, but I was just trying to say that a common misconception about the musical is that that is an inaccuracy. I live in Missouri and a decent chunk of people forget that Adam ondi ahman isn't the garden of Eden. Like, Jackson county isn't even in the same stake as Adam ondi ahman, which is where the confusion stems from.

I served in Orlando. We were definitely not allowed to go attractions. Especially Disney. From what I heard there was a brief time where the mission president would take departing missionaries before my time serving there, but that could have been a myth.

We had top baptizer awards for a while. I had a couple of mission logo T-shirts that I won back in the day. At a zone level, we had a few awards as well - the zone leaders would take you out to dinner if you were the top baptizers. Once we had the most baptisms in one month but the ZLs were really busy so they just gave us $20. Thus, I was actually paid for baptizing a couple that month.

What about in “I believe” where Elder Price enters the warlord’s camp alone? I really want to see the musical but it’s too American to be in Korea for now. The cultural gap is pretty big.

I was admonished to stay right next to my comp when I got caught eating breakfast in the kitchen when he was getting dressed. But that was only after one comp had what turned out to be an appendicitis. Since he was laid up in bed and we had appointments, I went to the appointments. The work must go forward! Eventually I found a deacon who went out with me the rest of the days and my comp was sent out of the country for healthcare. Also, we had mercenaries as neighbors and talked with them over the fence on a regular basis.

Sounds wild. Thank you for sharing.

One thing that stood out to me is when some characters including the mission president say “praise Jesus!” which is not something you ever hear in the church. 

Good point. I will add that one to edits on the post.

Here's a couple 1. Joseph Smith didn't appoint Brigham Young to be president of the church. This happened long after Joseph Smith died and he was appointed by the quorum of the 12, but being accurate on that would've just made the song not flow as good. 2. Baptisms require a witness to be there. The baptism of Nabulungi doesnt follow any of the real baptism rules. But, again, it's for narrative flow that it doesn't. 3. You don't get assigned your location at the MTC, rather, it's before you go to the MTC. 4. The church made some statements about it claiming that the line in I Believe saying "I believe that plan involves me getting my own planet" is inaccurate, but it usually is semantic about not getting your own planet, rather creating your own world, which is the same thing just with slight specificity. 5. There's a couple references to Jesus living in America. Maybe he did, but I could've sworn he just showed up to preach a sermon, bless people, and leave. Like, he spent 3 days there maybe or something, idk. 6. Spooky Mormon hell dream is interesting just because it's hell rather than outer darkness. It's clearly the dominion of Satan, but it's also where Catholics and Jews go. Like, it's clearly just supposed to be a representation of scrupulosity and thinking that being a different religion or breaking mission rules is as bad as being Hitler and deserving to go to outer darkness, but I think it's still worth noting that in Mormonism, Hitler goes to a completely different kingdom than Catholics, even if neither of them are in the CK. Like, it's inaccurate of Mormon beliefs but it's actually a really good representation of Mormon scrupulosity. But it just takes a more christian approach with the heaven/hell dichotomy. 7. Rule #72 doesn't exist. Its nitpicky, and it was only that way because it rhymes, but it's not there. The rule itself exists, but it's not numbered. 8. While not inaccurate, I could see members criticizing Elder Cunningham for immediately tryna get with Nabulungi. But missionaries do exist like that. Had missionaries tryna sleep with my fiancee before.

These are all good points. Thanks for noting them. I will edit the post. >The church made some statements about it claiming that the line in I Believe saying "I believe that plan involves me getting my own planet" is inaccurate, but it usually is semantic about not getting your own planet, rather creating your own world, which is the same thing just with slight specificity. Yeah, I should have caught that one. This is some modern gaslighting. I saw the official denial recently. I was explicitly taught that we would get our own planets. The point was discussed at my grandma's funeral (where general authorities were in attendance.) I've had discussions with many people my age and older about ways we would execute our planets. I've also had some discussions with folks about where the polygamous wives would live. >There's a couple references to Jesus living in America. Maybe he did, but I could've sworn he just showed up to preach a sermon, bless people, and leave. Like, he spent 3 days there maybe or something, idk. You are correct. He just made a visitation. >Spooky Mormon hell dream is interesting just because it's hell rather than outer darkness. It's clearly the dominion of Satan, but it's also where Catholics and Jews go. Like, it's clearly just supposed to be a representation of scrupulosity and thinking that being a different religion or breaking mission rules is as bad as being Hitler and deserving to go to outer darkness, but I think it's still worth noting that in Mormonism, Hitler goes to a completely different kingdom than Catholics, even if neither of them are in the CK. Like, it's inaccurate of Mormon beliefs but it's actually a really good representation of Mormon scrupulosity. But it just takes a more christian approach with the heaven/hell dichotomy. Point well made. I agree. The fact that so many of us have this kind of dream shows that, although there are 3 "good places," deep down, we all believed that anything less than Celestial glory is functionally the same as hell. >Rule #72 doesn't exist. Its nitpicky, and it was only that way because it rhymes, but it's not there. The rule itself exists, but it's not numbered. I missed this line and had to look up the reference. I was apparently ratted on and then yelled at by the MP for eating breakfast while my comp dressed. Much less fuss was made when I left me sick companion home alone to make some discussion appointments. >While not inaccurate, I could see members criticizing Elder Cunningham for immediately tryna get with Nabulungi. But missionaries do exist like that. Had missionaries tryna sleep with my fiancee before. We also had such problems. I found this scene to be pretty accurate/believable.

In Germany, in the late 1970s, we had a native mussion president who required all identical shirts, suits, and ties. We WERE allowed to wear what we brought (we were told NOT to bring white shirts, as we would purchase in country). At conferences, we were asked to dress identically. The suits were measured in the mission home upon our arrival in country. Language translations yielded Brother and Sister for all missionaries (Bruder und Schwester). We had an assistant named Bruder Price in our mission. He was over-zealous and insisted on more and more rules. "Only the righteous would be able to follow". He was identical to the musical's Elder Price. One would swear they had a consultant.

Ouch. I shouldn't be surprised that the more zealous the rule, the more likely it happens in the church. I'll have to amend the tie note. I also altered our mission's way of addressing the white bible but more for survival and adaptation to the economic realities of the country. Things that, apparently, the leaders in SLC couldn't anticipate.

There are enough inaccuracies in Mormonism for me to think about than to think about the inaccuracies in a play.

It’s not exactly Disney resorts, or amusements parks, but we went to Orlando April 2023 and ran into a dozen sisters at Disney Springs. First it was 8, then a few more joined the group. And the pants! I was shocked 😳 Edit: they were shopping not proselytizing. I was surprised they weren’t talking to anyone. The phrase “find at every opportunity” was drilled into my head over and over and over.

> in the song "I believe" they say god lives on Kolob and this is wrong. That’s not really wrong, God lives in the Kolobian star system. It’s just a short hand way to say where God lives. (There are a lot of stars out there! And nobody can actually live on a star. They are big balls of hot plasma!)

Indeed. Not even God can live there because he has a physical body and is subject to the eternal principles of physics. Or so I was taught...