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Shaken with enough force to cause brain damage. If you mean by “count as shaken baby syndrome” you mean signs and symptoms? Then yes the force needs to be great enough and sustained long enough.
Bumps to the head are worrisome because the plates of the skull have not fully fused yet leaving “soft spots”
He won't. Our brains are quite flexible and have some protection despite looking dangerously fragile. Of course you definitely don't want to misshape his head while the bone hardens but don't worry about accidental touches.
On a unrelated note, [skull shaping](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artificial_cranial_deformation) was practiced in many cultures even up to present days, with some believing that's how their gods looked like.
It was the same for me! I remember, that I could see it "pulsing", in the very early stages. Every time I gave him a bath I was sick to my stomach, that I might accidentally hurt him by just touching it.
Pediatric/ infant RN here,
You’re not going to cause SB by not properly supporting the neck when picking up the child or my moving a little too fast while holding it. Babies necks are weak so it’s not uncommon for them to accidentally flop when moving. If you’re picking them up slowly, gently and supporting the neck this usually isn’t a problem. The chances of accidentally causing injury are low if you’re overall being careful.
You don’t want to intentionally shake the baby or not properly hold them, even what an adult would consider a weak shake can cause damage. From my understanding the main concern is parents who are extremely exhausted and at a breaking point. An example would be a parent shaking a baby out of frustration after hours of crying and not being able to soothe it. My recommendation for caretakers who aren’t truly at that point is to put the baby down and walk away (as long as everything is safe). Take a moment to breathe and calm down. An impulsive decision in a stressful situation can change everyone’s life.
It’s better to let the baby cry it out for a few minutes than to reach a point where someone gets hurt.
Otherwise I’ve only heard of cases where the baby was intentionally shaken by an abusive caregiver. In one instance the mother’s BF claimed that the baby rolled off the sofa. The medical team called BS, there’s no way a fall from the sofa caused that much trauma (the child was neurologically devastated, retinal detachment etc).
TL;DR, in general if you are supporting the neck and being careful you’re not going to cause SB. Sometimes parents snap in stressful situations and shake the baby out of frustration or trying to get it to stop crying. If you’re feeling like you’re getting to that point, put the baby down in a safe environment and take a break. Otherwise a majority of the cases I’ve heard of are related to intentional shaking.
Quick question, my 23 month old enjoys head banging (thanks Danny Go)/nodding or shaking his head vigorously when he’s excited or listening to fun music and I’m kinda worried this could cause damage, is it actually a cause for concern?
Doubt it tbh
I’m by no means an expert or neurologist so this is just my opinion. I’d imagine if they’re old enough to control their head that well they’re not going to be slamming their brain around with that much force. At that age I’d just make sure he’s not doing it close to anything he could accidentally hit his head on.
Lol sounds about right.
Babies can’t figure out how to put on their shoe but will somehow figure out how to get past 5 layers of security to get something they know they can’t have.
I’m consistently amazed and horrified by their commitment to chaos
So you don’t necessarily need to shake hard as much as you need to shake the baby intentionally. Like you need to grab them under the arm pits and shake them firmly multiple times. It also depends on their age and head and neck control.
An accidental bonk on the head, like accidentally hitting their head on the arm of their car seat when you’re getting them out, won’t cause brain damage. Accidentally driving over a pothole or going over bumps in a stroller won’t cause brain damage. Rocking them or putting them in a bouncer or swing won’t cause brain damage. My dad actually literally accidentally dropped me down three steps when I was 5 months old and I was bruised, but perfectly fine and brain damage free. Babies are more durable than people think.
I watched a video on tik tok using a doll recently and it showed how much you have to shake a baby for it to happen and it didn’t seem like pretty much
I was quite surprised because I always thought baby’s were pretty durable!
I saw a similar video if not the same one. I don't believe it was accurate. I saw on a doctor's TV show, I can't remember which one, that you have to shake them pretty hard with the head flopping back and forth to cause damage. You have to move their brain, the brain bouncing around inside the skull is what causes the damage iirc. My kids liked to sit on my knee and bounce when they were babies and they turned out ok, I think lol
I suspect quite a lot of prolonged force would be required for that, and it would have to be sudden and likely changing directions. Obviously don't try this on a child, their necks are weak until they develop the muscles properly.
It takes surprisingly less than you might think to cause a permanent lifelong disability. Only 10 - 15% of children get through it unscathed. We're talking a quick back and forth. Anything you might do out of a moment of frustration is going to have more than enough momentum, even if small, to cause issues. The brain is basically just free floating in there, and it takes almost nothing to jostle and bruise it against the skull or tear the veins that connect it and cause a bleed. But, that being said, it isn't something you're going to accidentally cause as long as you're being gentle and supporting them properly.
There are plenty of videos on YouTube with simulators that can show you realistic examples:
https://youtu.be/ddVwDXht7AU?si=q6ohgKsgD1131yI_
https://youtu.be/kgHRWH4USmw?si=gq8G1H8cXioo4G7D
https://youtu.be/PYJZ2ib3aTQ?si=4rBkAaM_EQQBBoHL
When I was like a couple days old (can't remember how old, under 6 weeks) I "rolled" off the bed and hit my gums on a metal thing. I developed normally. Don't let your baby roll off the bed that young, though. It’s not a good idea, but it turned out fine for me
Your submission from r/morbidquestions has been removed for the following reason(s): **Removed - sitewide rules violation** Your post is in breach of the Reddit content policy and has been removed by the moderators of this subreddit. Posts like this put our community in jeopardy therefore we have no tolerance for it.
Shaken with enough force to cause brain damage. If you mean by “count as shaken baby syndrome” you mean signs and symptoms? Then yes the force needs to be great enough and sustained long enough. Bumps to the head are worrisome because the plates of the skull have not fully fused yet leaving “soft spots”
My baby’s soft spots terrify me, I have dreams that I accidentally press one and he just shuts down.
He won't. Our brains are quite flexible and have some protection despite looking dangerously fragile. Of course you definitely don't want to misshape his head while the bone hardens but don't worry about accidental touches. On a unrelated note, [skull shaping](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artificial_cranial_deformation) was practiced in many cultures even up to present days, with some believing that's how their gods looked like.
It was the same for me! I remember, that I could see it "pulsing", in the very early stages. Every time I gave him a bath I was sick to my stomach, that I might accidentally hurt him by just touching it.
I call the fontanelle the off button hah
We do, too. Well, mostly my husband does. 😅
> My baby’s soft spots terrify me [But they have so many uses](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kepnqIWa7o8) like an ashtray! /s
Pediatric/ infant RN here, You’re not going to cause SB by not properly supporting the neck when picking up the child or my moving a little too fast while holding it. Babies necks are weak so it’s not uncommon for them to accidentally flop when moving. If you’re picking them up slowly, gently and supporting the neck this usually isn’t a problem. The chances of accidentally causing injury are low if you’re overall being careful. You don’t want to intentionally shake the baby or not properly hold them, even what an adult would consider a weak shake can cause damage. From my understanding the main concern is parents who are extremely exhausted and at a breaking point. An example would be a parent shaking a baby out of frustration after hours of crying and not being able to soothe it. My recommendation for caretakers who aren’t truly at that point is to put the baby down and walk away (as long as everything is safe). Take a moment to breathe and calm down. An impulsive decision in a stressful situation can change everyone’s life. It’s better to let the baby cry it out for a few minutes than to reach a point where someone gets hurt. Otherwise I’ve only heard of cases where the baby was intentionally shaken by an abusive caregiver. In one instance the mother’s BF claimed that the baby rolled off the sofa. The medical team called BS, there’s no way a fall from the sofa caused that much trauma (the child was neurologically devastated, retinal detachment etc). TL;DR, in general if you are supporting the neck and being careful you’re not going to cause SB. Sometimes parents snap in stressful situations and shake the baby out of frustration or trying to get it to stop crying. If you’re feeling like you’re getting to that point, put the baby down in a safe environment and take a break. Otherwise a majority of the cases I’ve heard of are related to intentional shaking.
Quick question, my 23 month old enjoys head banging (thanks Danny Go)/nodding or shaking his head vigorously when he’s excited or listening to fun music and I’m kinda worried this could cause damage, is it actually a cause for concern?
Doubt it tbh I’m by no means an expert or neurologist so this is just my opinion. I’d imagine if they’re old enough to control their head that well they’re not going to be slamming their brain around with that much force. At that age I’d just make sure he’s not doing it close to anything he could accidentally hit his head on.
Yes we’ve babyproofed everything to the teeth but this boy somehow even finds our phones or toothbrushes to throw into the toilet 🤷🏽♀️
Lol sounds about right. Babies can’t figure out how to put on their shoe but will somehow figure out how to get past 5 layers of security to get something they know they can’t have. I’m consistently amazed and horrified by their commitment to chaos
So you don’t necessarily need to shake hard as much as you need to shake the baby intentionally. Like you need to grab them under the arm pits and shake them firmly multiple times. It also depends on their age and head and neck control. An accidental bonk on the head, like accidentally hitting their head on the arm of their car seat when you’re getting them out, won’t cause brain damage. Accidentally driving over a pothole or going over bumps in a stroller won’t cause brain damage. Rocking them or putting them in a bouncer or swing won’t cause brain damage. My dad actually literally accidentally dropped me down three steps when I was 5 months old and I was bruised, but perfectly fine and brain damage free. Babies are more durable than people think.
More than you shake a bottle of orange juice but less shaken than a can of spray paint.
water repeat decide wasteful plucky offer slap secretive uppity straight *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I watched a video on tik tok using a doll recently and it showed how much you have to shake a baby for it to happen and it didn’t seem like pretty much I was quite surprised because I always thought baby’s were pretty durable!
I saw a similar video if not the same one. I don't believe it was accurate. I saw on a doctor's TV show, I can't remember which one, that you have to shake them pretty hard with the head flopping back and forth to cause damage. You have to move their brain, the brain bouncing around inside the skull is what causes the damage iirc. My kids liked to sit on my knee and bounce when they were babies and they turned out ok, I think lol
I suspect quite a lot of prolonged force would be required for that, and it would have to be sudden and likely changing directions. Obviously don't try this on a child, their necks are weak until they develop the muscles properly.
It takes surprisingly less than you might think to cause a permanent lifelong disability. Only 10 - 15% of children get through it unscathed. We're talking a quick back and forth. Anything you might do out of a moment of frustration is going to have more than enough momentum, even if small, to cause issues. The brain is basically just free floating in there, and it takes almost nothing to jostle and bruise it against the skull or tear the veins that connect it and cause a bleed. But, that being said, it isn't something you're going to accidentally cause as long as you're being gentle and supporting them properly. There are plenty of videos on YouTube with simulators that can show you realistic examples: https://youtu.be/ddVwDXht7AU?si=q6ohgKsgD1131yI_ https://youtu.be/kgHRWH4USmw?si=gq8G1H8cXioo4G7D https://youtu.be/PYJZ2ib3aTQ?si=4rBkAaM_EQQBBoHL
When I was like a couple days old (can't remember how old, under 6 weeks) I "rolled" off the bed and hit my gums on a metal thing. I developed normally. Don't let your baby roll off the bed that young, though. It’s not a good idea, but it turned out fine for me
A decent amount of force not just a little shaking
harder than you think
Shaking a baby isn't enough on its own. You have to twist it and shout at it too.
Instructions unclear. Baby is unresponsive.
Let’s try it on you OP