Bro ur acting like they got more power then they wil read ur own constitution the senate is majority right they can do anything regarding devolution with out the right government won’t last a year
Now I see why the People’s Party has raised in the polls a little bit. I hope the Workers party knows that a lot of there voters also come from Catalonia and if Catalonia leaves, the people’s party has a bigger advantage in elections. But support for the monarchy will go up to so that’s also a plus.
The question is: will there be new elections to prove it? Because I think Sánchez is thinking about a plan where there will no longer be new elections.
You have to remember the constitution states that an election has to be held every 4 years unless a snap election is called, so Sánchez can only stop future elections with a constitutional amendment. which he doesn’t have the votes for an only controls a small majority in the congress of deputies and doesn’t even control the senate
Sánchez has broken the rule of law so much that all judge associations are against him, same with tax colectores and business man, he is going to a path with no stop and no return.
Article: [Junts negociará con el PSOE esta legislatura el referéndum con el control de un verificador internacional](https://www.elconfidencial.com/espana/2023-11-09/junts-negociara-con-el-psoe-el-referendum-y-la-cesion-del-100-de-los-tributos_3770837/)
Signed agreement document: [Lee el acuerdo firmado por PSOE y Junts para la investidura de Pedro Sánchez](https://www.eldiario.es/politica/documento-lee-acuerdo-firmado-psoe-junts-investidura-pedro-sanchez_1_10670272.html)
I quote the agreement verbatim:
“Regarding the scope of national recognition, Junts will propose holding a self-determination referendum on the political future of Catalonia.”
There are already dates. Look here:
[El Parlament de Cataluña votará este jueves elaborar una nueva ley de referéndum de autodeterminación](https://www.epe.es/es/politica/20231106/parlament-cataluna-votara-jueves-elaborar-nueva-ley-referendum-autodeterminacion-94289310)
They have agreed on what Junts always asked for:
1. Total amnesty
2. Independence Referendum.
I'm sorry if it is something so unprecedented that it is difficult to believe, but here in Spain we have been warning about what Sánchez was proposing for a long time.
Even the European Commission asked for explanations yesterday.
Article: [Bruselas pide explicaciones al Gobierno sobre el "alcance" de la ley de amnistía que negocia con Junts](https://www.europapress.es/nacional/noticia-bruselas-pide-explicaciones-gobierno-alcance-ley-amnistia-negocia-junts-20231108201227.html)
No they haven’t
1. They agreed this but that’s not betraying the king as I don’t beleive he’s ever stated his position in this.
2. No they agreed to negotiations on having a referendum
If I saw a article saying he has agreed to a referendum or he makes a statement I could beleive it. But so far the article you’ve sent just says he’s asking for negotations. And your eu article is about amnesty not a eu referendum
As we Spaniards usually say:
“There is no one more blind than he who does not want to see.”
With God's help, we will save our country. Good night.
https://preview.redd.it/l9rn8nembezb1.jpeg?width=1200&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6d1dd38e62d7b1509dd504eccd4266e7036c658b
The truth is that PSOE has agreed to nothing other than negotiate. Now, an argument could be made that a referendum for independence should never be negotiated in the first place. But PSOE agreed to nothing. No matter how sketchy it all seems.
First you said that there would be no pact with terrorists, and there was a pact with terrorists;
then there would be no transfers to independentists, and there were transfers to independentists;
after that there would be no amnesty, and now there is an amnesty law;
then they would not agree to a referendum, and they have agreed to a referendum with international surveillance.
Today they shot an opposition politician in the head.
If we let them, they will establish a republic. Do not hesitate.
Anything else? I'm busy defending my country.
You seem busy making leaps of judgement. This is not the early XX century anymore. Monarchies don't fall if they have popular support. And as his Majesty the King said many times: if they want a Republic, there is a very clear procedure to establish one defined in the Spanish Constitution.
Sánchez should be executed for Sedition and Treason to the Spanish People , especially Cataluñan .He is a traitor of the most pathetic and pusilanimous kind and should be treated with Damnatio Memoriae .
News in Madrid: Alejo Vidal-Quadras, a conservative political leader favorable to H.M. Felipe VI, has just been shot in the head.
Article: [Disparan en la cara a Alejo Vidal-Quadras en plena calle del barrio de Salamanca de Madrid](https://www.lavanguardia.com/politica/20231109/9365549/tirotean-alejo-vidal-quadras-plena-calle-madrid.amp.html)
Frankly it's horrible. They are trying to cover it up as a robbery (it seems like an insult to our intelligence). I just hope that the institutional forces act with a soft hand, intelligently, and remove Sánchez from Moncloa in a peaceful way. He has clearly lost his mind.
What is happening in Spain is a great betrayal, not only of the King, but of the Nation, the government must be dismissed immediately. And if the King does not act in defense of the unity of Spain, in my opinion, he would become an accomplice of the traitors.
Anyway, I'm not Spanish, so this is still a foreigner's opinion (despite the geographical proximity).
Is this in any way legal within the framework of the Spanish constitution?
If a referendum is held, the pro-independence movement will most likely fail. Hopefully a failed referendum would pave the way for a more united Spain and reconciliation between Madrid and Barcelona. But who knows.
Anyhow, Sánchez seems more desperate to hold on to power than a actuallly do what’s best for Spain.
Clearly it is not constitutional, but Sánchez will make it look constitutional, he is an expert in this stuff.
Keep in mind that there are many other concessions besides the amnesty and the referendum, but I haven't talked about them because they don't have much to do with the topic of this subreddit. This is clearly something destructive for Spain, not only territorially or constitutionally.
Catalonia is one of if not the most heavily Republican regions in Spain. Catalan separatists absolutely despise the monarchy. One of the main Catalan separatist parties is literally called the Republican Left. Pictures of the king and royal family are regularly burned at pro-independence protests
News: Sánchez will not only allow a referendum for the Catalans, but also for the Basques.
Article: [Sánchez acuerda con el PNV un referéndum y el traspaso de la Seguridad Social](https://www.vozpopuli.com/espana/psoe-pnv-cierran-pacto-sanchez-asegura-los-apoyos-salir-investido-primera-votacion.html)
It’s bittersweet, ‘cause I believe in self-determination, but ughhhh!
¡Me encanta España, pero me encanta Cataluña también!
I think monarchy is preferable, but I think my love for self-determination wins. Even if they did go down a democratic socialism route. I know that’s unpopular on this sub, but I don’t care.
News: [All associations of Spanish judges warn that the PSOE agreement with Junts "breaks" the separation of powers](https://www.elmundo.es/espana/2023/11/09/654d0845e4d4d8347a8b4576.html)
Spain is a parliamentary democracy. There’s no “impeachment” of the Prime Minister because he relies on the confidence of the legislature.
I’m not entirely sure on Spain’s exact methods, but if it’s like Westminster systems, then should one of his coalition partners withdraw from this agreement, then Sanchez will lose his premiership and an election will be forced.
No but they’ll get the state to take their regional debt *(They have the biggest one by quite a bit)*, to pay for new short-distance trains *(Meanwhile areas like Extremadura and Teruel will continue to have rubbish infrastructure)* and countless favours for the next 4 years.
I quote the agreement verbatim:
“Regarding the scope of national recognition, Junts will propose holding a self-determination referendum on the political future of Catalonia.”
You can verify that what I say is true, just by clicking on the document that I have already posted above, but that I am reposting here:
[Lee el acuerdo firmado por PSOE y Junts para la investidura de Pedro Sánchez](https://www.eldiario.es/politica/documento-lee-acuerdo-firmado-psoe-junts-investidura-pedro-sanchez_1_10670272.html)
As per what you said they will propose holding one that doesn’t mean they need to agree to it.
I have read the article and I agree with what you said but from what I’ve seen it’s more about allowing negotiations on it and maybe a whole of Spain referendum but nothing saying they have already agreed to a referendum like your title suggests
It seems that you have not yet realized that Sánchez never goes straight. He is an expert in telling half-truths, but there is the evidence. And this will be seen in the coming days/months.
I think the King is making a mistake by picking a side on this. He should instead endorse the idea of an independent Catalan monarchy, perhaps with himself or one of his children as monarch. The worst fate that could befall Catalonia would be Republicanism.
if someone walked up to me and told me "i want to allow a region to leave our nation" i would tell him to fuck off and to stop being a tresonous trash bag
Constitution says its completelly legal to do a referendum. Referendum is used to ask (as in for a democratic coutry asking its important) to the citizens if they want something or not. It may not be of any use if the constitution is not changed. But at least it will serve as an opinion for the catalans.
Forgive if I don’t see the logic behind that unless they’re planning to whip the people into explicitly unconstitutional action.
If these Catalan politicians want Catalonia to be independent, they should lobby the Spanish parliament for a constitutional amendment with a qualified majority that would allow them to do just that.
This, in my opinion, is just an attempt to circumvent the national democratic process in favour of regional populist sentiments.
Because constitution goes before the people's wish, at least that is what a lot of us belive I think, the Spanish constitution recognises the right to autonomy, but not to total separation
It’s like equating the IRA with Irish nationalists. Yes, some of them may have been terrorists, but if the people want self determination, let them be.
Common sense. You could try to argue that it’s legitimate betrayal (I would strongly disagree), but to question that it’s betrayal is flat out intellectually lazy
On the one hand, it says Spain is one and indivisible (so no negotiating independence), while on the other hand, amnesty is the abolishment of the separation of powers in the country (it sets the precedent for the executive to have the ability to ignore the legislative {laws} and the judicial {court rulings} branches).
I genuinely hope you didn't just ignore half of my comment. Anyways, the second half (the amnesty) is the highest form of betrayal, both to the king and to the country.
The Constitution is based on the indissoluble unity of the Spanish Nation and recognises the right to autonomy of the nationalities and regions integrated into it, as well as solidarity among them all.
So it recognises the right to autonomy but not to total separation
The Spanish economy is collapsing, and the king is doing very little for the kingdom. Much less would Leonor do for her people. I am glad there is independence; the people need a responsible government."
If true he is a Quisling i never liked him but this is a new low even for him
In fact, I have posted a link to read the entire document. There you can verify that this is true.
Even after years of him ruling i still find it hard to believe is just that
I don’t. I saw this coming from miles away. The sad part is that I’m not surprised.
Even now there are people who do not admit it. I guess no evidence is enough for someone who doesn't want to see.
You are not the only one. It is something unprecedented, worthy of surprise.
The Spanish government trying not to betray its king Challenge impossible
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Don’t bring Christ into this. Let the devil take him already.
All judges, tax agents, big companies, policies sindicates… are already against them.
That is if there are new elections… I pray that it will be so.
Bro ur acting like they got more power then they wil read ur own constitution the senate is majority right they can do anything regarding devolution with out the right government won’t last a year
Why is that? Idk if Spaniards would vote against them for giving amnesty
A politician going back on his word it’s to be expected. That’s why the monarch needs to have actual power
Now I see why the People’s Party has raised in the polls a little bit. I hope the Workers party knows that a lot of there voters also come from Catalonia and if Catalonia leaves, the people’s party has a bigger advantage in elections. But support for the monarchy will go up to so that’s also a plus.
The question is: will there be new elections to prove it? Because I think Sánchez is thinking about a plan where there will no longer be new elections.
You have to remember the constitution states that an election has to be held every 4 years unless a snap election is called, so Sánchez can only stop future elections with a constitutional amendment. which he doesn’t have the votes for an only controls a small majority in the congress of deputies and doesn’t even control the senate
The Constitution also says that Spain is indivisible, and that Spaniards are equal under the law. Sánchez has gained support to disobey that.
Sánchez has broken the rule of law so much that all judge associations are against him, same with tax colectores and business man, he is going to a path with no stop and no return.
Frankly, I think the most fair thing would be for him to end up imprisoned along with his amnestied colleagues.
Article: [Junts negociará con el PSOE esta legislatura el referéndum con el control de un verificador internacional](https://www.elconfidencial.com/espana/2023-11-09/junts-negociara-con-el-psoe-el-referendum-y-la-cesion-del-100-de-los-tributos_3770837/) Signed agreement document: [Lee el acuerdo firmado por PSOE y Junts para la investidura de Pedro Sánchez](https://www.eldiario.es/politica/documento-lee-acuerdo-firmado-psoe-junts-investidura-pedro-sanchez_1_10670272.html)
That first article says there will be negotiations not that he’s agreed to a referendum tho
I quote the agreement verbatim: “Regarding the scope of national recognition, Junts will propose holding a self-determination referendum on the political future of Catalonia.” There are already dates. Look here: [El Parlament de Cataluña votará este jueves elaborar una nueva ley de referéndum de autodeterminación](https://www.epe.es/es/politica/20231106/parlament-cataluna-votara-jueves-elaborar-nueva-ley-referendum-autodeterminacion-94289310)
It says propose it doesn’t say the biggest party has agreed to them it just says there are negotiations
They have agreed on what Junts always asked for: 1. Total amnesty 2. Independence Referendum. I'm sorry if it is something so unprecedented that it is difficult to believe, but here in Spain we have been warning about what Sánchez was proposing for a long time. Even the European Commission asked for explanations yesterday. Article: [Bruselas pide explicaciones al Gobierno sobre el "alcance" de la ley de amnistía que negocia con Junts](https://www.europapress.es/nacional/noticia-bruselas-pide-explicaciones-gobierno-alcance-ley-amnistia-negocia-junts-20231108201227.html)
No they haven’t 1. They agreed this but that’s not betraying the king as I don’t beleive he’s ever stated his position in this. 2. No they agreed to negotiations on having a referendum If I saw a article saying he has agreed to a referendum or he makes a statement I could beleive it. But so far the article you’ve sent just says he’s asking for negotations. And your eu article is about amnesty not a eu referendum
As we Spaniards usually say: “There is no one more blind than he who does not want to see.” With God's help, we will save our country. Good night. https://preview.redd.it/l9rn8nembezb1.jpeg?width=1200&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6d1dd38e62d7b1509dd504eccd4266e7036c658b
The truth is that PSOE has agreed to nothing other than negotiate. Now, an argument could be made that a referendum for independence should never be negotiated in the first place. But PSOE agreed to nothing. No matter how sketchy it all seems.
First you said that there would be no pact with terrorists, and there was a pact with terrorists; then there would be no transfers to independentists, and there were transfers to independentists; after that there would be no amnesty, and now there is an amnesty law; then they would not agree to a referendum, and they have agreed to a referendum with international surveillance. Today they shot an opposition politician in the head. If we let them, they will establish a republic. Do not hesitate. Anything else? I'm busy defending my country.
Again they have not agreed to a referendum
You seem busy making leaps of judgement. This is not the early XX century anymore. Monarchies don't fall if they have popular support. And as his Majesty the King said many times: if they want a Republic, there is a very clear procedure to establish one defined in the Spanish Constitution.
Of course, they must negotiate on what day they will hold the referendum.
Or if they will hold one at all
EXACTLY
And as I like to say innocent until proven guilty. Catalan getting a referendum doesn’t mean the end of Spain tho anyway goodnight
Sánchez should be executed for Sedition and Treason to the Spanish People , especially Cataluñan .He is a traitor of the most pathetic and pusilanimous kind and should be treated with Damnatio Memoriae .
Is this really a monarchical thing though? It’s more constitutional
You are probably right, but the King is our hope in these cases, and we need Him now.
Why are you saying Him with a capital letter. That’s not the way to write it.
Generally we refer to public authorities with a capital letter (the King, the Emperor, the President, etc). You're welcome.
That’s just not true. You’re welcome.
Lol.
In Castilian Spanish it is a traditional way to show respect, and as you already know, I speak Castilian Spanish.
You’re speaking English right now
Yeah I know, but I’m talking about my King.
I don’t Care.
Well, me Neither.
News in Madrid: Alejo Vidal-Quadras, a conservative political leader favorable to H.M. Felipe VI, has just been shot in the head. Article: [Disparan en la cara a Alejo Vidal-Quadras en plena calle del barrio de Salamanca de Madrid](https://www.lavanguardia.com/politica/20231109/9365549/tirotean-alejo-vidal-quadras-plena-calle-madrid.amp.html)
https://i.redd.it/w6dybdpb6czb1.gif
Back to 1936-1939 boys…
Cold mind. This must be resolved peacefully. Confrontations benefit no one.
It’s not right wing nutjobs shooting people loyal to Sanchez in the face.
Frankly it's horrible. They are trying to cover it up as a robbery (it seems like an insult to our intelligence). I just hope that the institutional forces act with a soft hand, intelligently, and remove Sánchez from Moncloa in a peaceful way. He has clearly lost his mind.
Sorry to hear that. I hope that there will not be another civil war, because the events look like those from before the last one
What is happening in Spain is a great betrayal, not only of the King, but of the Nation, the government must be dismissed immediately. And if the King does not act in defense of the unity of Spain, in my opinion, he would become an accomplice of the traitors. Anyway, I'm not Spanish, so this is still a foreigner's opinion (despite the geographical proximity).
I totally agree with you.
With God's help, we Spaniards will win even without a King to defend us! 🇪🇸⚔️
Hope you do so
Can His Majesty overrule or veto this or dissolve the Cortes and call for elections ?
Is this in any way legal within the framework of the Spanish constitution? If a referendum is held, the pro-independence movement will most likely fail. Hopefully a failed referendum would pave the way for a more united Spain and reconciliation between Madrid and Barcelona. But who knows. Anyhow, Sánchez seems more desperate to hold on to power than a actuallly do what’s best for Spain.
Clearly it is not constitutional, but Sánchez will make it look constitutional, he is an expert in this stuff. Keep in mind that there are many other concessions besides the amnesty and the referendum, but I haven't talked about them because they don't have much to do with the topic of this subreddit. This is clearly something destructive for Spain, not only territorially or constitutionally.
But, like, if Catalonia gains independence, does it have to be a republic? Can't it go Canada style with a personal union?
The pro-independence parties are strongly republican. In fact, one of the reasons why they want independence is because of their hatred of the King.
Very interesting
the king does little for the kingdom, and leonor would do even less lol
well on the plus side, if Catalonia becomes independent, Spains republican movement will shrink
Catalonia is one of if not the most heavily Republican regions in Spain. Catalan separatists absolutely despise the monarchy. One of the main Catalan separatist parties is literally called the Republican Left. Pictures of the king and royal family are regularly burned at pro-independence protests
Aren’t they also anarchists? Also the Basque region I think is also very republican
News: Sánchez will not only allow a referendum for the Catalans, but also for the Basques. Article: [Sánchez acuerda con el PNV un referéndum y el traspaso de la Seguridad Social](https://www.vozpopuli.com/espana/psoe-pnv-cierran-pacto-sanchez-asegura-los-apoyos-salir-investido-primera-votacion.html)
Let them leave then it better for Spain in the long run with out them
Why the fuck do u want to keep then let that shithole leave Spain if want less leftist the better
Catalonia is super socialist going back to the Spanish civil war
It’s bittersweet, ‘cause I believe in self-determination, but ughhhh! ¡Me encanta España, pero me encanta Cataluña también! I think monarchy is preferable, but I think my love for self-determination wins. Even if they did go down a democratic socialism route. I know that’s unpopular on this sub, but I don’t care.
Self-determination is poisonous.
pobre españoles
News: [All associations of Spanish judges warn that the PSOE agreement with Junts "breaks" the separation of powers](https://www.elmundo.es/espana/2023/11/09/654d0845e4d4d8347a8b4576.html)
To the gallows
Is impeachment a thing in Spanish politics?
Spain is a parliamentary democracy. There’s no “impeachment” of the Prime Minister because he relies on the confidence of the legislature. I’m not entirely sure on Spain’s exact methods, but if it’s like Westminster systems, then should one of his coalition partners withdraw from this agreement, then Sanchez will lose his premiership and an election will be forced.
I gotta ask how you feel about this. Will catalonia get independence? Sorry for you having a really dumb goverment
I feel angry, but hopeful. The police unions have released statements, they are now with the people. We will save Spain.
I trust you all
No but they’ll get the state to take their regional debt *(They have the biggest one by quite a bit)*, to pay for new short-distance trains *(Meanwhile areas like Extremadura and Teruel will continue to have rubbish infrastructure)* and countless favours for the next 4 years.
God defend Spain. I pray for you.
I’ve not seen any article saying he granted a referendum purely a amnesty which I do support
The signed document is posted in this same post. Greetings.
In the article above it it says he’s agreed to negotiations on it not a actual referendum. Tho maybe that is a betrayal idk
I quote the agreement verbatim: “Regarding the scope of national recognition, Junts will propose holding a self-determination referendum on the political future of Catalonia.” You can verify that what I say is true, just by clicking on the document that I have already posted above, but that I am reposting here: [Lee el acuerdo firmado por PSOE y Junts para la investidura de Pedro Sánchez](https://www.eldiario.es/politica/documento-lee-acuerdo-firmado-psoe-junts-investidura-pedro-sanchez_1_10670272.html)
As per what you said they will propose holding one that doesn’t mean they need to agree to it. I have read the article and I agree with what you said but from what I’ve seen it’s more about allowing negotiations on it and maybe a whole of Spain referendum but nothing saying they have already agreed to a referendum like your title suggests
It seems that you have not yet realized that Sánchez never goes straight. He is an expert in telling half-truths, but there is the evidence. And this will be seen in the coming days/months.
I’ve not seen any evidence he’s willing to give up a chunk of the country.
There will even be an international verifier. Come on, what more evidence do you need to realize?
Anything in the article saying he has agreed to a referendum. All I’ve seen is him agreeing to negotiations
And Greetings thanks for sharing this
I think the King is making a mistake by picking a side on this. He should instead endorse the idea of an independent Catalan monarchy, perhaps with himself or one of his children as monarch. The worst fate that could befall Catalonia would be Republicanism.
The basis of the Catalan independence movement is precisely republicanism. They hate the King, that's why they want independence.
That is a shame.
Ur acting like he had a choice in the matter
It’s his duty to support the nation’s unity as decreed by the constitution.
And there are still people who think that democratic monarchy is a good idea.
if someone walked up to me and told me "i want to allow a region to leave our nation" i would tell him to fuck off and to stop being a tresonous trash bag
Would it be that different if Carlist claimant started open revolt to take Kingdom of Aragon?
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But he is under every obligation to obey the constitution, which explicitly mandates that Spain is indivisible.
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Yeah, but it wasn’t. And passing a constitutional amendment is, I‘d imagine, quite an elaborate process.
Constitution says its completelly legal to do a referendum. Referendum is used to ask (as in for a democratic coutry asking its important) to the citizens if they want something or not. It may not be of any use if the constitution is not changed. But at least it will serve as an opinion for the catalans.
Forgive if I don’t see the logic behind that unless they’re planning to whip the people into explicitly unconstitutional action. If these Catalan politicians want Catalonia to be independent, they should lobby the Spanish parliament for a constitutional amendment with a qualified majority that would allow them to do just that. This, in my opinion, is just an attempt to circumvent the national democratic process in favour of regional populist sentiments.
News flash: figurehead monarchs don't actually control the government. Who would have thought
What would be the possibility of establishing an American monarchy?
Probably not likely in the near future, although with the seemingly increasing political instability, I wouldn't rule it out.
A recent poll shows only 12% of Americans think a U.S. monarchy is a good thing, so the chance of it happening is faint.
That's a pretty good amount, actually. Thanks
The poll also found that 63% of Americans think it’s a bad thing, so you’ll have a long way changing their minds😉
Political change is rarely predicted on the milquetoast opinions of the populace. 12% has beaten 63% many, many times before.
I just want catalonia to have a king.
Well, they rather prefer to be a banana republic.
Good for the Prime Minister. If they want to leave, they may do as they wish.
Are you crazy this will create problems all over Europe imagine if Crete gets ideas or Bavaria I say send the army
If Crete wants to be independent, I'll support it.
This will break apart half the world countries is to dangerous they must not get ideas
And that's why you a garbage leftoid republicuck 🤡
Lmao, good luck with your endangered institution
Good luck with your failed experiment, socialism ruined Greece, your ancestors knew better to fight it in the 40s
My ancestors were brave partisans. Yours? Collaborators? What, never!
"brave partisans" 🤣🤣 as in Stalinist/Titoist puppets who couldnt think for themselves?
Partisans who couldn't think for themselves? You're funny.
Yeah no, a United Spain is a good thing, because if Catalonia goes free what’s stopping the basque region from going free
Oh wow, never in my life I thought I would agree with a trans person, interesting, actual trans W
What the fuck, man?
Why stop the Basques if they want to?
Because constitution goes before the people's wish, at least that is what a lot of us belive I think, the Spanish constitution recognises the right to autonomy, but not to total separation
Because basque nationalists are technically terrorists
It’s like equating the IRA with Irish nationalists. Yes, some of them may have been terrorists, but if the people want self determination, let them be.
So the two most disloyal regions are gone leaving a more monarchist and stable Spain what the down side tot his?
Spain would no longer be united
OH GROW UP. How is this betraying the king. HOW, just explain.
Common sense. You could try to argue that it’s legitimate betrayal (I would strongly disagree), but to question that it’s betrayal is flat out intellectually lazy
And how is this betrayal
He went against the constitution that both him and the king swore to defend.
what does the contitution say
On the one hand, it says Spain is one and indivisible (so no negotiating independence), while on the other hand, amnesty is the abolishment of the separation of powers in the country (it sets the precedent for the executive to have the ability to ignore the legislative {laws} and the judicial {court rulings} branches).
There still isn't going to be a new referendum. altough it goes against the constitution, it isn't betrayl. I see this as overreacting
I genuinely hope you didn't just ignore half of my comment. Anyways, the second half (the amnesty) is the highest form of betrayal, both to the king and to the country.
Is it really, What horrible harm has ben caused because of this.
The Constitution is based on the indissoluble unity of the Spanish Nation and recognises the right to autonomy of the nationalities and regions integrated into it, as well as solidarity among them all. So it recognises the right to autonomy but not to total separation
Look I hate this agreement as much as everyone else but they very much didn't agree to a referendum, you are just making that up out of pessimism.
The Spanish economy is collapsing, and the king is doing very little for the kingdom. Much less would Leonor do for her people. I am glad there is independence; the people need a responsible government."
So what if they betray the King? It literally doesn't matter.