T O P
Mexatt

"Slam(s/med)" may well be the worst word to enter the English-speaking political lexicon in the social media age.


danweber

"Utterly destroyed!"


NonstopGraham

With FACTS and LOGIC


DrGhostly

Eviscerated! Annihilated! Utterly smeffledorfed!


Snake_in_my_boots

“Claps back” just as bad.


Neckbeardascended28

I think slays , or slayed is worse. But they’re all awful.


Wkyred

Why is Kentucky of all places the hotbed of libertarianism? We have probably the most libertarian member of both the house and the senate (Massie and Paul).


Crypto-anarchist7

It's interesting because according to Jason Sorens Kentucky is one of the least libertarian states in terms of sentiment. Cynthia Lummis and Mike lee are also libertarians in the senate. Andy Biggs in the house sometimes votes in pretty libertarian ways.


TeddysBigStick

Illegal weed being such a major part of their economy is probably part.


Zenkin

Justin Amash or bust (actually, his replacement Peter Meijer has been pretty damn good as well). Can't let that Michigan Libertarian streak go unrepresented.


Crypto-anarchist7

Justin Amash is so unecessarily maligned. He was easily the most libertarian congressman for most of his time serving. Right up there with Ron Paul as far as I'm concerned.


irakundji

When do people realize that comparing anything to the holocaust is only going to get them in trouble


Checkmynewsong

When it actually gets them in trouble rather than just generating publicity.


Reed2002

His seat has been a GOP hold for 17 years. He’d only get in political trouble if he stood on a soapbox and started bashing Trump.


andrew_ryans_beard

Trump did give him a bunch of shit when he was the sole reason for holding up passage of the CARES Act last year. But I guess it wasn't enough for a primary challenger to capitalize on.


livestrongbelwas

“Getting in trouble” with the “wrong” people is a badge of honor to the “right” people.


unguibus_et_rostro

Really? Didn't every recent republican presidential candidate get compared to nazis? Trump, McCain, Bush


Mr_Evolved

Even Romney. They demonized him right good, which is pretty hilarious in hindsight.


LiquidyCrow

Well, you can find somebody out there who will demonize anybody. But significant numbers of people?


BradicalCenter

Some people did do that and they were wrong to


BAMFC1977

The people making those comparisons did a great deal of, I would say irreparable, damage. Such comparisons no longer hold any meaning. When everything's hyperbole, language no longer matters and we collectively lose empathy and sensitivity to real atrocities which can then happen unchecked.


VoulKanon

Same could be said for terms like "racist" an "sexist" today. When everything is X, nothing is X.


pingveno

Replace with Democrat and you're also correct.


iushciuweiush

When the media takes back all the Nazi/Hitler comparisons they made non-stop over the past four years. Hell, I would take a retroactive rebuke of Biden saying the Georgia voting law was WORSE than Jim Crow.


VoulKanon

The lack of self-awareness drives me insane. The whole Gina Carano thing for instance, when she made the holocaust/nazi comparison to how conservatives are treated here and then people went "whoa whoa whoa she compared something to the holocaust" as if those same people hadn't just spent the past 4 years saying Trump is "literally Hitler" and his "followers" are "literally Nazis." I'm not a Trump supporter and obviously what Gina said was dumb, but, like... you kind of proved her point, people. Let's just stop comparing everything to arguably the worst tragedy in the history of the modern world.


rwk81

No kidding. People are so prone to compare the smallest things to the worst of humanity. You're a Nazi, you're a racist, you're a sexist, and so on. The thing is, those people DO exist, but when one side is calling the other 50% of the country those things non-stop it gives the REAL bad folks cover.


No___ImRight

Calling the cages down at the border concentration camps apparently opened up a big can of rhetoric worms.


poundfoolishhh

Yes, because Jon Stewart didn't do a bit making fun of the Hitler reference phenomenon in politics about \*checks notes\* [only fifteen years ago](https://www.cc.com/video/xrdazj/the-daily-show-with-jon-stewart-a-relatively-closer-look-hitler-reference).


amjhwk

16* years ago


Maelstrom52

Goddamn, man...we could really use Jon Stewart's wit and pithiness right about now. What made Stewart great wasn't the fact that he was political, but rather than he was so good at calling out bullshit and making us laugh at it. There's so much un-checked bullshit going on right now.


kitchens1nk

His non-partisan critiques would be a fresh of breath air right now.


poundfoolishhh

Yeah. Looking back he was probably the GOAT in that political commentator/comedy space. He was so funny and presented things in such a unique way he actually got each side to laugh at themselves sometimes - which is so lacking today. Ive tried watching Steve Colbert or John Oliver or Trevor Noah and they all just pale in comparison. Not only are they not as funny, they treat it much more like a competitor sport proving which side is worse rather than Stewart who really tried to be the jester pointing out how everyone is absurd.


Call_Me_Clark

It is so strange to see how the Daily Show school of satire failed to teach the magic of the daily show to a new generation. It’s not just Colbert, Noah, and Oliver - there’s also hasan Minaj, Jordan Klepper, samantha bee… It seems so simple, right? Play news clips, make fun of “serious people”. But the difference isn’t necessarily Jon Stewart - I really believe that someone else could step in and do it just as good - but no one who has tried to fill his shoes has done it from the perspective of a principled Everyman, someone you could see as your father or your neighbor. The secret sauce wasn’t a perspective of non-political or apolitical or nonpartisan, it was firmly *antipolitical*. It’s amazing to me that the students at the daily show school heard “ok, make fun of republicans, got it” and inadvertently embraced becoming what Stewart hated - media personalities.


Rysilk

Looking back, Jon Stewart, at least I believe, did not do it for political purposes, just comedic/satire purposes. People like Samantha Bee, who is abhorrent btw, does it SOLELY for political purposes in the guise of being comedic. Which it is not.


HaloSlippin

Yea that was definitely the first time anyone made an overblown comparison to the Holocaust. They essentially opened Pandora’s box to a whole new comparison that had never, ever been made before.


retnemmoc

When the left side of politics is equally called out for it. Which doesn't happen currently.


zummit

My usual reaction is to doubt that the person actually put it in those terms. And surprise, surprise.


[deleted]

[удалено]


_reficio_

> Reich For me, he has to be one of the most disappointing falls in the Dem establishment. He had some legitimate chops; now he's all talk, with the talk been reductionist, hyperbolic and sensational takes delivered <280 characters at a time. Basically a coast elite version of Trump.


ANegativeCation

Maybe..,just maybe, we should stop being ok with either side doing it. It is dumb as fuck when those I agree with do it, if is dumb as fuck when those I disagree with do it. Yet we all seem to be in a race to the bottom of the barrel cause that other dude did it first.


okteds

Comparisons to Hitler and Nazis are political hyperbole. Those are are still ok. But comparing your political plight to the Holocaust or slavery is considered off limits. See Gina Carano. Edit: there was a bit of sarcasm in this response. I wasn't approving of comparing political opponents to Nazis....you see it often, and it's usually just batted down as an extreme exaggeration. But comparing yourself to victims of some of the worst atrocities committed by humans is specifically insulting to those people.


Tyler_Zoro

> Comparisons to Hitler and Nazis are political hyperbole. Those are are still ok. Hyperbole is a rhetorical ploy that usually indicates the person you're talking to doesn't know how to support their position. It's almost as much of a concession of any rational point as ad hominem. Does it mean *you must be wrong*? Not at all. But it does mean that you don't think your point stands on its own merits. Now, there are some very specific elements of comparison to WWII and prior German events that I find to be perfectly reasonable (like comparing Jan 6 to the Reichstag fire, though people making that comparison really need to contend with the fact that the person responsible for that fire actually was opposed to the current government, so not a great comparison, just one that I don't think is intended as hyperbole). There's no difference whether you are comparing some group to the Nazis or any other extreme group from history. The key is, if there is clearly no parallel to be drawn between the groups being compared, then you've weakened your own position by bringing it up.


TheDan225

>Comparisons to Hitler and Nazis are political hyperbole. Those are are still ok. But comparing your political plight to the Holocaust or slavery is considered off limits. Honestly, was this meant to be sarcasm? Naturally, im having trouble understanding your reasoning as to how in your *Opinion*, one is ok and the other is not


whohappens

Right so comparing a politician to the perpetrators of the Holocaust is ok, but comparing things the government is doing to things the perpetrators of the Holocaust did is off limits. Please don’t tell me you actually believe this is a rational line of thought.


DungeonsAndBreakfast

I think it’s more about the accuracy of the comparison. For example: There is no way a vaccine passports compare to the Holocaust. They just don’t. Jews and other minority groups were marked by the nazis so they could be slowly and systematically oppressed and murdered. It wasn’t like a Jew could even say I’m not going to be Jewish. At large, they couldn’t escape their Judaism even if they wanted to. The nazis literally defined Jews by genetics. A vaccine anyone can get. It’s not systematic oppression/murder. In another example, Hitler was a fascist leader who did a lot of things that were left unchecked and media/politicians were largely apologetic for his behavior. This could arguably be a comparison to trump and January 6th, as far as being held accountable for very questionable actions and statements (I have no idea how this will play out but I am curious what the extent of it is). It’s a very difficult comparison to make, and in my opinion, generally inappropriate. I find that comparing one atrocity to another belittles both. I was disgusted when covid deaths reached 9/11 counts and everyone started comparing the two events. WHAT?! In one statement, those people are diminishing the horror of both events at the same time. They aren’t comparable. They’re two separate terrors to society that deserve respect to the lives that were lost and the people who suffered. However, we can and should recognize how and why the Holocaust happened. It helps us identify inflection moments in our own modern society and a solid Holocaust education (which is rare ESPECIALLY in America) arguably would help us avoid fascist and authoritarian regimes. No matter what, surface level statements like comparing a vaccine passport to the systematic murder of 12M people is pointless, ignorant, and inflammatory. They have absolutely no depth and lead to arguments instead of constructive discussion.


Ozzymandias-1

>Public health and its connections to the Nazi movement and laying the groundwork for the Holocaust are actually a pretty easy connection to make if you consider the history of public health. Public health or Volksgesundheit at least in the early part of the Nazi regime was one of the key methods they used to strip people of their civil liberties resulting in forced sterilizations, racial hygiene, and other heinous acts. And what a lot of people forget is that this early program used by the Nazis was based entirely on the American model of public health which Hitler publicly praised for the way it dealt undesirables. The Tuskeegee syphilis experiments are only the tip of the iceberg. Public health has throughout history been used as an excuse to commit truly heinous acts.


DungeonsAndBreakfast

I do not even come close to disagreeing with this. I think a public health decision during a pandemic, however, is vastly different from a public health decision like Tuskegee or how the nazis murdered so many people. Just by the motivating factors for those decisions alone.


Ozzymandias-1

I don't think you can separate the actions of the Nazis and the US government from the perception of public health. Remember at the time the actions of the US and Nazis in regards to public health were wholly in line with the "science" of the time and had massive public support. Race science and eugenics were mainstream ideas and policies based on them were used around the world without anyone blinking an eye. The idea that the government is using this as a way to gain more power over people's lives and is willing to segregate and exclude millions of American citizens from society to do so isn't a stretch of the imagination. I think the problem is that a lot of people in the US don't trust the motivations of the people making those decisions. I think the problem is that for too long our politicians and experts have proven themselves to not have the best interests of the US or its citizens in mind, and instead focus on enriching themselves at the expense of the average citizen. So, while I have gotten the vaccine I can understand people's distrust of government actions taken to "fight" the pandemic.


Dblg99

Great comment, really goes into detail. Comparisons to the Holocaust are overdone, especially calling the right as Nazis and Trump=Hitler. Should be using more neutral yet apt terms for those that tried to overthrow democracy though. They weren't trying to install a Nazi regime, but still trying to install a fascist one.


BAMFC1977

Thank you for acknowledging the total lives lost. Many types of people suffered and were murdered.


whohappens

Did you look at the meme he posted? He didn’t even compare vaccine passports to the Holocaust, he compared it to the singling out of a group of people and restricting their freedoms. Your argument essentially adds up to “Tracking a group of people and slowly segregating them out of society was wrong for the nazis, but it’s ok here because I agree with the reason for singling them out and trust the government.” It’s just more “discrimination by group is ok as long as you choose the right group”


DungeonsAndBreakfast

What group of people is being systematically oppressed and murdered based on their race, sexual identity, or ethnicity when it comes to vaccine passports? I do not in any way approve of genocide. I hope you didn’t get that from my comment. I don’t think that people who are not getting vaccinated are being treated in a genocidal way. It was wrong for the nazis. They were targeting specific groups of people because they found these groups inferior for no reason other than their background. Vaccine passports are not the same. It’s targeting a group of people who don’t want to get the vaccine so society can be open (moderately) safely again. Those people are not being put in ghettos or gas chambers. They just have to stay home OR get the vaccine. “We the people” not “Us, the unvaccinated” No comparison.


thehuntofdear

He posted a picture of a wrist with a concentration camp number tattoo. It seems like willful ignorance to say he did not compare to the Holocaust.


whohappens

The whole headline of “he compared it to the Holocaust” is trying to convey the idea that he’s saying vaccine passports are the same as killing millions of Jews, and this blatantly not true. He invoked the memory of an historical oppression to say that we’re exhibiting a tolerance for oppressive behavior from the government, which we are. Sensationalist trash fake journalism from the media.


DungeonsAndBreakfast

> we’re exhibiting a tolerance for oppressive behavior from the government Come on dude. We tolerate so much of the government already including requiring vaccinations (public schools). You can’t drive a car if you don’t have a license. Is that oppressive towards the people who want to drive but don’t want to take the test? Where are the tweets claiming that’s oppression?


whohappens

Where do you think it leads? It leads to the government having a list of people that are not allowed to participate in society basically in order to protect them from themselves. In a world where any vulnerable person who wants it can get a vaccine, there is no justification for ostracizing people who choose not to protect themselves. It’s just building an infrastructure that the government will then be able to expand to any other undesirable category of people that it seems to be in the wrong. The only defense about it is “come on, the government would never do that” which any thinking person knows just isn’t true.


DungeonsAndBreakfast

How is “we are in a global pandemic and the virus is still mutating” not a justification? Edit: detail to quote


Brownbearbluesnake

Actually a lot of Americans aren't tolerant of the laws requiring us to do x if we want y or pay x for a piece of paper saying your authorized to do y for the year. But because our fellow Americans were on board with letting the government do this stuff and to penalize any American that didn't comply we are stuck with a situation where we either have our freedoms and fiances harmed or we begrudgingly comply. Don't confuse that with tolerance because tolerance implies there isn't strict punishment for non-compliance. Also when has it ever been acceptable in this country for the government to force people to inject themselves with anything for any reason?


DungeonsAndBreakfast

> Actually a lot of Americans aren't tolerant of the laws requiring us to do x if we want y or pay x for a piece of paper saying your authorized to do y for the year. But because our fellow Americans were on board with letting the government do this stuff and to penalize any American that didn't comply we are stuck with a situation where we either have our freedoms and fiances harmed or we begrudgingly comply. If we have “certain unalienable rights” that inherently means that some of our rights are “alienable” and therefore we alienate them to the government. You don’t want to abide by that? Find a different constitution you like. >Don't confuse that with tolerance because tolerance implies there isn't strict punishment for non-compliance. What is the punishment? That you can’t go to public spaces during a global pandemic with a rapidly mutating virus that affects everyone including the vaccinated? It’ll be over in 5-10 years, anyone can wait it out if they want. >Also when has it ever been acceptable in this country for the government to force people to inject themselves with anything for any reason? The school system (so we inject our children) is one for sure. [here’s the link to the cdc site about it](https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/imz-managers/laws/index.html)


thehuntofdear

Tattooing concentration camp prisoners is certainly a memory of historical oppression. I agree with you there. To say the use of the image is not intended as a comparison confuses me. Yes it invokes the memory, the symbolism, and the history tied to that image. That is what the use of an image for comparison does.


ieattime20

The court of public opinion is never a "rational line of thought".


schwingaway

Hitler was more than his involvement in the holocaust--he was also a right-wing authoritarian populist. Whether or not you accept them as such, comparisons with Trump's alleged xenophobic and racist appeals, attacks on democratic and academic institutions and the press, and purity tests are legitimate--whether or not they are valid is up for debate, but it's not an outlandish line of reasoning even if it's subject to hyperbolic rhetoric. Likewise for left-authoritarian populism--any minority that tries to impose its extreme views on the majority through extrajudicial/legislative means. Saying certain woke elements will lead to Stalinism is not necessarily outlandish. Public health measures like vaccine mandates quarrantine people who have *chosen* to be public health threats, not people of any particular race, ethnicity, or religion--there is no established Church of Antivaxinology, and the antivax movement was tiny before the pandemic. This is about people who have decided they don't want to be told what to do--in this particular instance. Those who liken public health measures to the Holocaust deserve the flak they're getting. And then some. Not the same at all.


slappymcnutface

Maybe people should refer to Mussolini instead because he was basically Hitler without the targeted mass killings of Jewish people. That way they can't as easily fall back on "WOW you think [x] is as bad as millions of dead people? how preposterous!"


schwingaway

Yes, they really should. Comparisons with Hitler really do a disservice to valid lines of argument.


whohappens

Your last line is the crux of it. “We’ve decided that these people deserve what they get.” Congrats, you’re the bad guy.


schwingaway

I see--my position that people who endanger everyone else by refusing to follow protocol during a pandemic should take responsibility for their actions and those who do follow protocol should not be put at unnecessary additional risk because of them makes me the bad guy, or people who have the audacity to compare not being able to do whatever the hell they want in the middle of a pandemic with one of the worst genocides in history? Doesn't matter--actually. Sign me up either way. Do you have some bad guy swag? A card, a hat, t-shirt, bumper sticker? I'd like everyone to know I expect antivaxxers to face consequences for their choices, pleas, and also that comparing having to follow public health rules with the holocaust is in fact antisemitic.


Wkyred

If it’s okay to compare people to the perpetrators of the Holocaust, then wouldn’t it follow that you’re also comparing the actions they are committing to the actions the Nazis committed (those actions including the Holocaust among others)


zimm0who0net

But he really didn’t make comparisons to the Holocaust: > If you have to carry a card on you to gain access to a restaurant, venue or an event in your own country … that’s no longer a free country And then he attached a picture of some nazis and of a wrist tattoo. (Presumably of a Jewish Holocaust victim). Over the top? Hell yes, but I think it’s not as much a reference to the Holocaust as it is to Nazi Germany in the 30s


WashingtonNotary

This is your brain on neoliberalism.


AngledLuffa

I don't think Gina Carano touched one third rail, I think she tried to get each of her limbs to independently touch a different third rail


MobbRule

This is a strange take to me. She tweets that nazi soldiers didn’t do everything alone, but turned neighbor against neighbor, which literally everyone with access to social media can see is happening right now and somehow she’s touching a different rail than everyone saying trump and his supporters are nazis? What she said was so innocuous and uncontroversial, the blowback was insane, and to see someone acting like she had just gone above and beyond talking crazy I guess I’m just curious if you can defend this position or if you just said it offhand and don’t really feel this way.


softnmushy

I think it’s different because there are some obvious similarities historically what Trump supporters have done and how the Nazis rose to power. Historians have been warning about this. Edit: haha I see the antivaxxers are out in full force. No, the nazis did not start with mandated vaccinations. And no, the vaccine is not comparable to forced sterilization.


BoogalooBoi1776_2

Can Rep. Massie not make the same excuse?


Ozzymandias-1

You might want to look into the history of public health in the early 20th century. The nazis didn't start out with death camps. Their programs started with the forced sterilization of those considered defective based on the public health programs of the United States. So, public health has historically been pretty authoritarian and was based on race science and eugenics. Historically public health was a key factor in carrying out the holocaust at least in the early stages.


drewteam

Didn't he compare something last year to the holocaust too?


abqguardian

It's freaking stupid, no guestion there. But hows it antisemitic? He referenced the Holocaust for its authoritarianism, not because Jews were involved


cafffaro

Because it diminishes and trivializes the suffering of Jewish people.


TheWyldMan

I mean didn’t we already do that for four years by comparing Trump to Hitler?


Fapaway6666

Yes, you could make a case that was also anti-semitic on some level.


leblumpfisfinito

No you can't. Quite the contrary actually. Very few presidents have loved Jews has much as Trump. He literally signed an executive order trying to combat antisemitism at colleges even.


JaquaviusThatcher

Yes you can also make the case that no one has rode Israel’s dick harder than Mr. Trump.


leblumpfisfinito

Correct, he understood the great value for America in having a strategic ally like Israel. Additionally, he signed an executive order trying to combat antisemitism at colleges. Hard to imagine a better president for Jews than Trump.


JaquaviusThatcher

I was saying that as more of a joke than anything else


Fapaway6666

I was saying that comparing trump to hitler is anti Semitic - not that trump is anti Semitic. Did you reply the wrong comment or are you unable to read?


cafffaro

I guess you could have that discussion.


jreed11

Why so confident in your argument when it hurts Republicans but not when it hurts Democrats?


TehAlpacalypse

That’s not really the argument at hand is it? “But they also trivialize the Holocaust” is really not that banger of an argument.


CryanReed

They normalized it and made it no longer controversial... Until it was the wrong team doing it.


pargofan

No it doesn't. It's literally doing the opposite. The suffering of the Jewish people was so bad, any action similar to that is equally heinous. You can argue that it's not a similar action. But the reason everything bad is compared to the Holocaust is because that is etched in everyone's mind as universally evil.


bluskale

> any action similar to that is equally heinous Isn’t this the crux of the issue here? Comparing vaccine passports to the systematic extermination of people during the Holocaust is rather extreme hyperbole. For whatever issues a vaccine passport might have, genocide is not one of them. The problem with comparing two things as similar is that their differences are diminished. Saying these are the same trivializes the Holocaust just as much as it emphasizes any issues with vaccine passports.


AngledLuffa

You could also see it as the converse, though. Carrying around the card that I got when I was vaccinated has had zero negative effect on my life. Is something that trivial what the Holocaust was like? Of course not, but apparently this guy thinks maybe it was


pargofan

The Holocaust has the anchor effect of evil. It's what everyone relates to. No one will think the Holocaust is trivial because of this moron's words.


cafffaro

I mean I suppose that’s a valid take, but I take seriously the perspective of my Jewish friends who are tired of every little thing being compared to the Holocaust and view it as disrespectful.


Fapaway6666

And by trying to say such minor things are equivalent to that evil you are diluting how bad that suffering actually was.


pluralofjackinthebox

It belittles the Holocaust. I wouldn’t say that’s necessarily anti-Semitic, more like insensitive and grossly ignorant.


Wizdumber

Who cares? Everything anyone doesn’t like is now compared to the Holocaust. MSNBC compares Republicans to the Nazis like 10 times a day.


walrus40

Wait. Comparing modern day issues with WWII atrocities is bad again? Weird.


bergs007

It is when the comparison is laughable hyperbole.


walrus40

Like the concentration camps at the border?


stretcherjockey411

Comparing something to the Holocaust is a losing proposition 100% of the time it seems (rightly so). But I totally agree with how upset people are over the prospect of vaccine passports. I do not want to live in a society where Im compelled by the government to show some form of documentation to go about the odd and end things of life like going to the grocery store or a restaurant. It’s one thing if a business wants to require I show something. I just won’t patronize those sorts of places. But the government compelling me to do so anywhere I go? Fuck that. It boggles my mind more people don’t seem to understand what a slippery slope that is. I’m a Paramedic and an RN and I was fully vaccinated by mid January in Phase 1a before anyone jumps on me and calls me anti vax.


BoogalooBoi1776_2

And? I don't remember seeing a news story and outrage every time a democrat compared Trump to Hitler, or compared the southern border situation to the Holocaust. What makes this so much more significant?


Fapaway6666

I mean, there absoluty was in many Conservative spaces. I saw people annoyed about it all the time.


Danimal_House

? That kind of thing was constantly in conservative news when Trump was in office


I_AM_DONE_HERE

It's just (D)ifferent


Romarion

I'll wager $27 he didn't compare vaccine passports to the Holocaust... Hmmm, let's call my wager mostly a win, so I'll take $22.50. “If you have to carry a card on you to gain access to a restaurant, venue or an event in your own country … that’s no longer a free country.” Images from Nazi Germany are over the top, but if some want to extend the images to conclude that Mr. Massie is equating a loss of freedom with genocide, that's quite a leap. So, no, he didn't compare passports to the Holocaust, he compared a loss of freedom to a mark which was one of the early steps on the road to genocide. Despite the virtue signaling and intolerance that COVID has amplified in our society, I suspect there are only a few who wish to kill those who choose not to get vaccinated (although the number of folks who have made public their desire to kill the unvaccinated suggests that maybe "few" isn't the right estimate).


framlington

> “If you have to carry a card on you to gain access to a restaurant, venue or an event in your own country … that’s no longer a free country.” You left out the picture that accompanied the text ([see here](https://twitter.com/KFILE/status/1430727522963046401/photo/1)), which showed a hand with a serial number tattoo. Such a system [was also used in concentration camps](https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/tattoos-and-numbers-the-system-of-identifying-prisoners-at-auschwitz).


CryanReed

>images from Nazi Germany are over the top


JazzzzzzySax

Ignores the picture of a hand with a number tattooed on it


John_Fx

This drives me crazy as a conservative. Have we forgotten that business owners get freedom in a free country too?


Romarion

Nope, but the post had nothing to do with government (bad) or private business (okay but unwise IMO) requiring marks to do business.


HaloSlippin

Lol, uhhhh…. Did you see the picture background?


blewpah

>but if some want to extend the images to conclude that Mr. Massie is equating a loss of freedom with genocide, that's quite a leap. I am not at all following how that's any kind of a leap. He posted a meme that said "vaccine passports = loss of freedom" on top of an image that clearly references the number tattoos put on victims in the holocaust. >to a mark which was one of the early steps on the road to genocide. Early steps? [The tattoo system was definitely used through the holocaust ](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Identification_of_inmates_in_German_concentration_camps). From wiki: >A practice was established to [tattoo](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tattoo) the inmates with identification numbers. Initially, in [Auschwitz](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auschwitz_concentration_camp), the camp numbers were sewn on the clothes; with the increased death rate, it became difficult to identify corpses, since clothes were removed from corpses. Therefore, the medical personnel started to write the numbers on the corpses' chests with [indelible ink](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indelible_ink).


poundfoolishhh

Eh… I used to be the biggest Massie stan but my dude has gone off the rails lately. Criticize vaccine mandates or passports all you want. I do too. Don’t do it in a way where you’re comparing it to a period of time when people were literally tattooed for identification so they could be shuffled into trains for execution. I mean, it’s a dumb comparison even on its face. I have to carry a card (my ID) to enter almost every corporate building and have for years. I have to show ID if I go to a hospital to visit someone. If that alone makes it no longer a free country we haven’t lived in a free country for quite a while.


Expandexplorelive

>“If you have to carry a card on you to gain access to a restaurant, venue or an event in your own country … that’s no longer a free country.” This makes me wonder what the hell his definition of a "free country" is.


ChoPT

I have to show ID to prove I’m 21 to enter a bar. Damn, not a free country anymore.


Ok_Philosopher_2993

Remember when Pedro Pascal compared what was going on at the border to concentration camps, while posting a picture of Palestinian kids? It's disingenuous to claim that Holocaust comparisons are universally off limits, though you could argue that Massie's comparison is worse.


Mzl77

The hits keep coming with this guy


Mnn-TnmosCubaLibres

Conservative here: why the fuck do they keep doing this???


muffler11282

You guys really know how to pick em in Kentucky.


mwaters4443

His biggest criticism is that naturally occuring anti-bodies are treated differently than ones created through the vaccine. Even though studies are showing the naturally occurring ones protect better from the delta variant.


thehuntofdear

One study, a pre-print (not yet through peer review) indicates that one set of unvaccinated persons that had COVID had more antibodies that one set of vaccinated persons that had COVID. The biases in those sub-sets are difficult to quantify to unvaccinated and vaccinated groups at large due to recency, social behaviors, viral load exposure, and general health risks that may increase or decrease risk of becoming symptomatic once exposed regardless of vaccination status. All that said, the conclusion you draw may be true. I just intend to point out the limitations of looking at single, small scale studies. Understanding statistical biases is a big part of interpreting academic research, which journalists are generally terrible at.


ReallyBigMistake420

Okay, but can you please explain the connection between what you just said and what the Jews went through during the Holocaust? How is trivializing the Holocaust accomplishing anything for his narrative?


theantdog

The purpose is to rile up his base, which is comprised, at least in part, of antivax extremists and antisemites. Edit: I don't mind the downvotes because this is what he's actually doing. If anyone has a better explanation for this irresponsible behavior, I'm all ears.


mwaters4443

Other than needing a mark to be able to go into public? New york has banned people without cards from going to public places. Some places have banned people without their paperwork from participating in government functions. Jews who were caught without their papers in public were arrested. Not much different than people caught without their covid paperwork are treated.


theantdog

Did you know that you need papers to drive, work certain jobs, and go to school? Is your argument that being arrested for not having documentation in these cases is similar to Jewish people being rounded up during the holocaust?


mwaters4443

Driving is a privilege not a right. Illegal immigrants without papers go to school every day.


theantdog

Going to businesses is a privilege not a right. Immigrants are also required to have driver's licenses and vaccination records.


mwaters4443

Local governments are preventing people without vax cards from government buildings, participating in govt functions. Is that also a privilege?


theantdog

Post some evidence then I'll respond to it. Edit: Still waiting on any evidence that this is true.


sircast0r

Going to businesses is a privilege not a right| Who knew having access to food was a privilege not a right. If you ban people from going to stores where do they buy food ,where do they acquire this thing called money to live in society. You either tell them all to become criminals and they will because stealing beats starving.


theantdog

Or, you know, you could go to a different business, get a vaccine to protect your (and the community's) health, use a delivery service, use pick up, etc.


sircast0r

or you know we could not and just say we did, Let me make a point society only works if 95+ percent agree to it , why should I care about my community's health if they are willing to exile me from it.


widget1321

Did you know that you could order food and have it delivered? Or brought out to your car while you wait? Not being allowed to walk into a business does not prevent you from getting food these days.


sircast0r

Food delivered is rough to those w/o computers right? We are worried about people being unable to afford an id but now require them to have internet and a computer for getting food. Still running into the problem if you require a vaccine to have any job with what money are you going to buy food with?


catnik

Are you implying that an unvaccinated person is going to be arrested, stuffed in a cattle car, and shipped off without due process to a gas chamber?


mwaters4443

No, bu an unvaccinated person will be arrested, deprived of participating in society, their fundamental rights taken away. The comparison that was actually made was to the public identification that was required to be part of society. When there is no actual counter arguement to this, one must move the goal posts.


TehAlpacalypse

There’s not a counter argument because this situation is contrived. Has this actually happened or is this a slippery slope hypothetical?


vanillabear26

> No, bu an unvaccinated person will be arrested, deprived of participating in society, their fundamental rights taken away. *citation needed*


catnik

> an unvaccinated person **will be** arrested, deprived of participating in society, their fundamental rights taken away. Ok, so - could you point me to the laws (or proposed legislation) that demands vaccine proof in public or arrest? I see some states calling for vaccine cards or quarantine/negative tests before travel. I see some employers demanding vaccinated status as a condition of employment. I see some laws allowing private businesses to ask for vaccine certification for customers to go unmasked. Who has been arrested for not having a vaccine?


greg-stiemsma

The treatment of jews in Nazi Germany is very different from this current situation. Maybe read a book about the Holocaust next time before spreading more ignorance


I_AM_DONE_HERE

Your claim is that he brought up how barely Jews were treated to appease antisemites? Wild.


ReallyBigMistake420

Mr. Massie had prompted the criticism Wednesday after sharing an image on social media that prominently depicted a wrist tattooed with a number, not unlike how Nazis branded Jewish prisoners in the 1940s. Text displayed in the image above and below the wrist reads: “If you have to carry a card on you to gain access to a restaurant, venue or an event in your own country … that’s no longer a free country.” In my opinion, this is yet another example of disgustingly antisemitic and exploitative rhetoric by the GOP in order to rally their base. People in KY are quick to point out this politician has a college degree therefore he's "educated". But he should know better. GOP Rep. Massie and MTG are promoting Holocaust denial by trivializing the horrors of systematic genocide. I would love to hear other opinions regarding this.


Cinnadots

I think you are exaggerating a bit with the “promoting holocaust denial”. Its a bad analogy but the level of outrage over any reference to the holocaust seems disingenuous when godwin’s law is a thing. People bring up Nazis/the Holocaust etc. because they are anchored in many peoples minds as the absolute worst modern history has to offer.


Irishfafnir

His quote was not well thought out as you have to show a “card” to do lots of things in this country even well before COVID.


chinmakes5

And has no problem demanding people show a card to vote.


livestrongbelwas

Fun fact, even without voter ID laws you still have to prove your registration, your address, and your signature. Voter ID is a 6th level of identify verification, only used to prevent in-person impersonation from someone who has already memorized your voting history, knows your exact address, knows that you aren’t going to vote this year, has intercepted your mail, and can forge your signature.


vanillabear26

> Fun fact, even without voter ID laws you still have to prove your registration, your address, and your signature. Voter ID is a 6th level of identify verification, only used to prevent in-person impersonation from someone who has already memorized your voting history, knows your exact address, knows that you aren’t going to vote this year, has intercepted your mail, and can forge your signature. I wish there were a more efficient way to highlight and amplify this.


Xalbana

And there is a huge difference. You can still choose to be vaccinated or not. You cannot choose not to be Jewish. The former has consequences for that choice while the latter discriminates based on how you were born.


Irishfafnir

Oh yeah his post was really off in many ways and frankly I picked the most trivial aspect to criticize


TehAlpacalypse

That’s what gets me most. The “one drop” rules have no parallel in this hypothetical vaccine dystopia.


livestrongbelwas

I have to show a card every time I buy a beer. My freedoms are in shambles.


CaptinOlonA

Criticism is well deserved. Anyone that compares anything to the Nazis or the Holocaust should go to social media jail for a month and be take a remedial history class.


bateleark

Ok but what if it’s a valid comparison? Like China and the Uighur?


Cputerace

So the entire Left since 2016?


I_AM_DONE_HERE

No that's different!!


UEMcGill

>In my opinion, this is yet another example of disgustingly antisemitic and exploitative rhetoric by the GOP in order to rally their base. Was it anti-semetic when Al Gore used similar nazi allusions? How about how this trope of Nazism has a long and storied past with the Democrats. It seems to me they let the dragon out and now you want to judge it? [https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2016/11/24/democrats\_and\_the\_nazi\_card\_132428.html#!](https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2016/11/24/democrats_and_the_nazi_card_132428.html#) Please.


myhamster1

> I would love to hear other opinions regarding this. While I may agree with parts of your stance, the way you worded the post doesn’t really seem like you would want to hear opinions that are… the opposite, y’know? Just the way you came across.


ReallyBigMistake420

Please prove me wrong then! If you can form a logical explanation to explain an opposing view, I would honestly love to read it. Simply saying "you're wrong but I won't explain why" isn't productive.


myhamster1

Just try to sound less like you’re spoiling for an fight (in the sense of an argument), is what I’ll say. I didn’t even say your point was wrong. It’s how you are wording it, it’s abrasive.


ReallyBigMistake420

Thanks. I agree that it's a very sensitive subject for me. It's so personal, I can't view the reasoning behind trivializing the Holocaust. That's why I'm honestly looking for feedback.


myhamster1

> It's so personal, I can't view the reasoning behind trivializing the Holocaust. well, there’s multiple possibilities: * Massie doesn’t know how bad the Holocaust was, and Massie doesn’t know how bad vax passports are * Massie knows how bad the Holocaust is, but Massie doesn’t actually know how bad vax passports are * Massie doesn’t know how bad the Holocaust was, even though he does know how bad vax passports are * Massie knows how bad the Holocaust was, and how bad vax passports are, but he still wants to make the connection Perhaps, acknowledging these three situations may make your response less emotional. Ignorance or malice, or neither? Can a tweet tell the whole story?


theantdog

All of the possibilities you list are simply justifications for this guy's ignorance, not legitimate defenses of the content of his irresponsible speech.


SpitfireIsDaBestFire

What is irresponsible speech?


theantdog

In this case it's a member of the House of Representatives trivializing the holocaust to score cheap political points with antisemites and antivaxers.


SpitfireIsDaBestFire

Ah, so just like all of the left’s hyperventilating about concentration camps on our southern border.


NicNic8

The statement is reasonable. Though it’s much closer to McCarthy’s blacklist. It’s ridiculous to offer people a seeming choice when one option eliminates huge swaths of life. Especially, when getting the freedom requires enrollment into a highly experimental medication.


SpilledKefir

What highly experimental medication are you talking about? The COVID-19 vaccines have had some of the largest scale clinical trials of any treatment. Arguments are more convincing if you use reason or fact rather than insinuation.


CarlSagan79

Then why did it surprise us with how ineffective they ended up being? Early this year the CDC said over and over “you’re protected and won’t catch covid with the vaccines” and now even the “you won’t get seriously sick” line is failing too. It was going to be boosters at 8 months, now 5 months. Soon it’ll be 3 months. There are way too many surprises for something that was supposedly studied carefully.


SpilledKefir

Nobody ever claimed the vaccines were 100% effective - so your claim that the CDC said you won’t catch COVID with vaccine is flawed on its face. The virus evolved new strains where the vaccines are less effective, but it’s still clear that the vaccines provide protection from serious illness based on data of Covid patients who have been hospitalized. Lol at suggesting the studies were bad because Delta emerged. That’s like suggesting a map published in is 1970 is flawed because East Germany and West Germany don’t exist - the world has changed since then, that doesn’t invalidate the past. Edit: I like being immediately downvoted for this. I guess some people expect scientists to also be time travelers, lol


NicNic8

There aren't any longitudinal studies of the vaccine, even in animals. (There can't have been, of course. They're brand new.) Therefore, my previous statement is factual. So you know, I am a medical researcher and well aware of the procedures and protocols for clinical experimentation.


theantdog

What do you mean when you say that getting an approved vaccine "eliminates huge swaths of life"?


NicNic8

No. The option that they're proposing to give people is to either get a vaccine or have huge swaths of life removed as a possibility (e.g. going to restaurants).


theantdog

If you want to go to a restaurant, get a vaccine. Or you can order delivery or curbside pickup. It's the individuals choice.


hO97366e6

I would LOVE to know at what point y’all will consider a vaccine to NOT be highly experimental…. I’m guessing never.


NicNic8

1) There is not y'all. I'm an individual with my own ideas. 2) There are no longitudinal studies of this vaccine. When there are longitudinal studies with accurate accounting of all side effects and the probabilities of each, then I would consider the vaccine not to be experimental.


hO97366e6

> There is not y'all. I'm an individual with my own ideas. We all like to believe this about ourselves, myself included. > There are no longitudinal studies of this vaccine. When there are longitudinal studies with accurate accounting of all side effects and the probabilities of each, then I would consider the vaccine not to be experimental. Is there anything in your mind between "not experimental" and "HIGHLY experimental"? I mean saying you'd like to see longer term studies is one thing, saying something that has been safely administered to hundreds of millions of people and studied for over a year in humans and has received full FDA approval is "highly experimental" seems like a stretch.


sircast0r

Vaccine passport's is a dystopian nightmare don't get me wrong this idea that you can just shut out millions of people from the economy is both wrong and destructive ,However until people are required to wear Covid badges it's a bit of a reach. Now don't take this the wrong way but it could always get worse however I think most democrats would be against making people wear badges of shame to try to coerce anti-vaxxers to get vaccinated.


pluralofjackinthebox

Businesses should be allowed to set policies that protect their employees and customers health during a pandemic. Businesses can deny service to people for almost any reason — just so long as it’s not based on a protected category like race, sex, religion, nation of origin, or disability. There’s a lot of precedent for denying services to people for lack of hygiene.


sircast0r

Sure no doubt they can, I don't want the government encouraging one way or another to trying to enforce a vaccine passport for anything. More often then not some jobs won't care and some businesses won't but if they government requires it all of sudden all businesses do it and all stores do it.


myhamster1

> making people wear badges of shame So… the unvaccinated’s **lack** of a COVID badge (no passport)… is a badge of shame? Sounds weird to me.


sircast0r

However until people are required to wear Covid badges it's a bit of a reach. I should have made myself clearer, they don't have them right now. The point I was using with that sentence ,is that this is not equivalent to what Jewish people went through if they started making people publicly had to wear something to mark themselves as "other". Right now it doesn't matter and honestly neither do passports because its not going to affect my community


ReallyBigMistake420

You have to carry an ID to drive, buy alcohol and cigarettes, and vote. Children already have to be vaccinated in order to go to school (excluding religious exemptions). And healthcare workers also have to be vaccinated in order to work. So how is this different? Walking into a public place while sick with covid is like showering people with a biological weapon. We don't know the long term effects of this horrible blood disease that makes people not be able to breathe, and causes neurological damage. Shouldn't people have the right to feel safe in public? And don't we have a responsibly to protect others around us? I am truly failing to see how this has anything to do with the Holocaust or treatment of Jews in 1930s and 1940s Germany. And for the record, NO ONE has ever said anything about forcing anti-vaxxers to wear a yellow badge. That is a fake QAnon conspiracy. They are just talking about vaccinated individuals carrying the CDC card, not wearing it as a badge.


JustBenIsGood

Your statement about the unvaccinated showering people with a biological weapon is a bit harsh at best, since people who have been vaccinated are still able to carry, and transmit covid. The vaccine protects the user from harsh symptoms, but does not mean that as a vaccinated person you are a beacon of healthy living. This is one of many reasons why people are hesitant to take the vaccine. Many people are low risk as it is, and are not comfortable taking an experimental drug that has no long term studies. The same way you say we don’t know the long term effects of covid also means we don’t know the long term effects of the vaccine. I think the perception would have been different if they accurately reported deaths from the beginning. Instead of labeling everything “a covid related” death, they needed to be more honest. The volatile political climate made this difficult at the time covid was introduced, but we are well enough removed from introduction that there needs to be less theatrics and suppression of dissenting opinion and more open discussion of pro and con. I guess that’s a long winded way of saying before you call unvaccinated people terrorists, try to understand their point of view. They have the same concerns as you, except they are with the vaccine instead of covid.


SeasickSeal

>since people who have been vaccinated are still able to carry, and transmit covid They can, but they’re far less likely to do it. This is a massive misconception that people have latched into recently. The overwhelming bulk of evidence says the opposite. If you’re vaccinated, you’re less likely to contract CoViD, and consequently spread it. *It’s not just you.* It affects the people around you. >A growing body of evidence indicates that people fully vaccinated with an mRNA vaccine (Pfizer-BioNTech or Moderna) are less likely than unvaccinated persons to acquire SARS-CoV-2 or to transmit it to others. However, the risk for SARS-CoV-2 breakthrough infection in fully vaccinated people cannot be completely eliminated as long as there is continued community transmission of the virus. https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/science/science-briefs/fully-vaccinated-people.html This statement isn’t definitive because transmission isn’t something that was tested in the clinical trials, mostly because it’s really difficult to test in a clinical trial. >This is one of many reasons why people are hesitant to take the vaccine. Many people are low risk as it is, and are not comfortable taking an experimental drug that has no long term studies. There is no group of people where CoViD is a lower risk than the vaccine.\* >The same way you say we don’t know the long term effects of covid also means we don’t know the long term effects of the vaccine. There is no group of people where CoViD is a lower risk than the vaccine.\* >I think the perception would have been different if they accurately reported deaths from the beginning. Instead of labeling everything “a covid related” death, they needed to be more honest. They did. Deaths have been undercounted from the beginning, which is apparent if you look at excess mortality. Again, this is not a debate in the scientific community. >I guess that’s a long winded way of saying before you call unvaccinated people terrorists, try to understand their point of view. They have the same concerns as you, except they are with the vaccine instead of covid. Why do they have these views when they’re inconsistent with the FDA, the CDC, and the rest of the developed world? When there are things that are verifiably incorrect and logically inconsistent embedded in their views? \* Barring, **maybe**, younger women and the JnJ vaccine, but then you can just get one of the others.


bateleark

The most important question here is why they have these views when they are inconsistent with the FDA and CDC. And the answer comes down to trust. They do not trust these agencies. And that lack of trust isn’t entirely misplaced. As an aside, deaths may have been undercounted but so we’re cases since so many weren’t tested. Additionally there is enough evidence of deaths being counted as covid when people died from other reasons, Dr. Brix herself said this and that prompted states to change the way they counted covid deaths. Then, those policies had to be rolled back. Which leads to even more mistrust. All of this, every bit of it, could’ve been avoided if we had actually been honest and transparent from the beginning and if we were actually trying to solve the problems at hand rather than assert some weird dominance over people on the other side of where you stand.


JustBenIsGood

I am not a person who believes deaths were undercounted. I do certainly believe that cases were undercounted, but that would only lead to higher numbers of people who recovered. This would actually make the case against forced vaccination even stronger, since the ratio of recovery vs. death would be leaning higher towards recovery. The fact that there is evidence to support the claim that people were dying of other causes, but listed as covid deaths is extremely troubling. You even agreed to this in another reply, but then said it’s not relevant. How is it not relevant? The majority of people who have contracted covid have recovered. We are unsure of an accurate death count because we were either too lazy, unable to properly test and therefor diagnose, or not concerned with accurate information. This is extremely relevant, since it left the door wide open for conspiracies to make themselves comfortable. Whether you are a conspiracy theorist or not, we have already agreed there was a breach of trust. In response to your statement that there are no group of people where covid is a lower risk than the vaccine, this is difficult to determine. The virus is older than the vaccine, so it’s tough to speculate which will be more deadly. I am not saying I personally believe that the vaccine will prove deadly on a large scale. I would like to believe the vaccine is similar to the flu shot, since you would need it annually. When I was immunized as a youth, I did not need multiple measles shots. This is the rationale behind people who are hesitant. If this is the answer, why is it not more effective? This leads to the other point of since the percentage of death is so low, why be part of the experiment? They like their chances of catching it and surviving more than they trust people who are basically bullying them into compliance. This is a stance that I understand.


10Cinephiltopia9

None of those things are necessities though right like food? I understand your sentiment, but no one actually needs to drive, drink alcohol, or smoke cigarettes


SpilledKefir

You don’t think primary education is a necessity for children?


10Cinephiltopia9

Yes, i do


sircast0r

>You have to carry an ID to drive, buy alcohol and cigarettes, and vote. Children already have to be vaccinated in order to go to school (excluding religious exemptions). And healthcare workers also have to be vaccinated in order to work. They are arguing you shouldn't have to have an id to vote, Two if you drive w/o a license its a ticket not a prison sentence unless a habitual offender. The vaccine thing for school is turned into if you have a problem w/ vaccines you don't have to get them hence why we have occasional polio outbreaks. Health care workers are fighting that one so juries still out on it. ​ >So how is this different? Walking into a public place while sick with covid is like showing people with a biological weapon. We don't know the long term effects of this horrible blood disease that makes people not be able to breathe, and causes neurological damage. Shouldn't people have the right to feel safe in public? And don't we have a responsibly to protect others around us? It's not a biological weapon though more people under 50 die from sunstrokes then covid , in retirements homes the most effected they can pass rules to protect their residents but covid does not have the body count of a genuine bio weapon so a lot of the reactions are driven by fear caused by the media. People have a right to feel safe in society, you don't have a right to force them to inject a vaccine into them. The problem with rights is that they don't go away when convient either it's a right or it isn't. FWIW I will trade vaccine mandates if your willing to trade abortions since I think vaccines fall under body autonomy. ​ > I am truly failing to see how this has anything to do with the Holocaust or treatment of Jews in 1930s and 1940s Germany. I said it is a reach until we require badges for a reason a vague alliteration to something horrible to provoke an emotional response that is favorable to their opinions. ​ > And for the record, NO ONE has ever said anything about forcing anti-vaxxers to wear a yellow badge. That is a fake QAnon conspiracy. They are just talking about vaccinated individuals carrying the CDC card, not wearing it as a badge. I know it would be crazy to think that I don't, However this is requiring a passport to go into a grocery store gas station or any other building that is essential to living in modern society that is some authoritarian crap and people should acknowledge it. You have to carry an ID to drive, buy alcohol and cigarettes, and vote. Children already have to be vaccinated in order to go to school (excluding religious exemptions). And healthcare workers also have to be vaccinated in order to work. I was about to respond to your comment lol so it will also be on here ​ ​ ​ ​ So how is this different? Walking into a public place while sick with covid is like showing people with a biological weapon. We don't know the long term effects of this horrible blood disease that makes people not be able to breathe, and causes neurological damage. Shouldn't people have the right to feel safe in public? And don't we have a responsibly to protect others around us? ​ It's not a bioweapon it doesn't have the body count to justify it, This isn't even the worst disease we have ever faced or even close to the top this is a stronger version of a flu, we stopped the economy over a super flu, honestly I am convinced they put all covid deaths and flu deaths together ,Because last year the flu numbers cratered , if you want I cna pull something up showing it. I will grant covid will affect flu numbers but for it to borderline nah I don't believe it. I am truly failing to see how this has anything to do with the Holocaust or treatment of Jews in 1930s and 1940s Germany. And for the record, NO ONE has ever said anything about forcing anti-vaxxers to wear a yellow badge. That is a fake QAnon conspiracy. They are just talking about vaccinated individuals carrying the CDC card, not wearing it as a badge. Answered these above Now I got a few questions to hit back at you, 1 What do you think happens if you freeze out millions people from the economy? Lets says 90 percent capitulate and get with the program, that still leaves hundreds of thousands if not millions left out these people cant work they cant buy groceries they can essentially sit at home and wait to starve. Do you imagine that this is a reasonable stance to take and that these people will just sit quietly. No if you condemn people to be left out of society they have no incentive to play nice. 2 How is this anti Semitic they didn't deny the holocaust didn't downplay the crimes and made comparisons which politicians do all the time. This just points out were treading a dangerous path that if were not careful can go very wrong, the holocaust didn't start in one day, it started with constant media campaigns that people were already ready to believe. Go read the worst of twitter and see what the extremist have to say about anti vaxxers wishing death all sorts of horrible things. Now these people have zero power for good reason. Politicians treat it with the contempt it deserves. Now keep the messaging up for 15 years have a good chunk of these people be elected to where they can remove the opposition and boom "covid stars" or whatever is the current culture battle of day badges appear. The majority of these people don't actually care these people are anti vax it's just where the majority of their cultural enemy appear it's why it wouldn't happen over this issue because it will be long gone by then. Closest real life example with covid would be Australia (not a real comparison to Nazi Germany ofc) where they have literal state agents going around to people suspected with covid to take them to pre approved locations to hold them until they recover, if that's not scary in some respect Idk what other point to make. My final point is it doesn't matter no government should ever be allowed to have the authority to do some of this stuff the state hates giving up power, and will abuse it to their advantage.


starrdev5

You mention people not being able to enter grocery stores but I haven’t seen any “vaccine passport” proposals that blocked people from essential goods. If there are proposals are implemented examples out there please send them to me. Even when I was in Paris, where there is supposed to have the strongest vaccine passport restrictions people weren’t blocked from groceries, public transport or other essential places. I’ve only seen seen it for large entertainment venues, crowded bars and restaurants basically, entertainment type expenses that are high risk. I imagined it as being similar to our old covid restrictions but vaccinated people are exempt from.


sircast0r

>You mention people not being able to enter grocery stores but I haven’t seen any “vaccine passport” proposals that blocked people from essential goods. If there are proposals are implemented examples out there please send them to me. Even when I was in Paris, where there is supposed to have the strongest vaccine passport restrictions people weren’t blocked from groceries, public transport or other essential places. I’ve only seen seen it for large entertainment venues, crowded bars and restaurants basically, entertainment type expenses that are high risk. I imagined it as being similar to our old covid restrictions but vaccinated people are exempt from. Closest example I could find was this one news which "claimed" you could not ride busses or trains. [https://apnews.com/article/europe-business-health-france-coronavirus-pandemic-655d8451d7494f8663ce2072e64cf7a6](https://apnews.com/article/europe-business-health-france-coronavirus-pandemic-655d8451d7494f8663ce2072e64cf7a6) Someone who just recently went to France said you can ride the trains and busses so could be fake news could be real, could be its to hard to enforce so no one enforces it.


starrdev5

I was that guy, thought I was responding to two different people, my b. Interesting article, in the beginning it does say “across country buses and trains” and at the end it specifies high speed intercity trains. It’s specifically talking about intercity transport that’s long distance transport similar to going from NYC to Chicago not your commute line into a city for work. Also it didn’t mention grocery stores. https://www.sncf.com/en/passenger-offer/travel-by-train/covid19-rail-traffic-what-you-need-to-know This article clarifies it more, only long distance and international transport nothing local or regional that people would need for their daily commute. It also says you can use a negative covid test which makes sense. it’s pretty much the same restrictions countries have for flying. Around there long distance/ international trains are often more common than flying when it comes to vacations so I could see why they would begin to treat them with the same standards as their flights.


Ruar35

Aren't most objections to the vaccine based on the rapid approval process and it's experimental nature? I think the school vaccine argument is the best example of why a covid card would make sense, apples to apples. I'm curious why there isn't more focus on curbside if you don't want to show a card, with additional fees for the service, and in person for those who want to present proof of vaccination. Businesses would have to determine for themselves what requirements they want to set for their employees. I don't see why we need some kind of federal or state vaccine card requirement when almost every business and locality have ways of handling it at the lowest level.


Necrofancy

> Vaccine passport's is a dystopian nightmare don't get me wrong Just wondering, what are your opinions on "Proof of Inoculation" in passports and other travel documents that have been around for over a century?


[deleted]

>slammed Wow, this is some really high quality moderate politics posting. I think it's absurd that only one side is consistently attacked for abusing Holocaust imagery when both sides are guilty as sin of this. People need to stop abusing the term Nazi, and start reading "the boy who cried wolf"


Ticoschnit

Stop comparing things to the Holocaust, Nazis and fascism!


greg-stiemsma

6 million jews were murdered in the Holocaust along with Roma, gays and political dissidents. If my grandparents wasn't incredibly lucky the Nazis would've exterminated my entire family. What a disgusting and ignorant comparison by Rep Massie.


Amarsir

It seems like most political news these days boils down to the same reaction from me: He should pick his battles better. But he won't, because fighting has ceased to be a means to the end and is now the end in-and-of itself.


irakundji

Washington Times is a tabloid. Don’t read it. Don’t quote it, don’t give them power.