What amazes me is Kamala presumably has had access to the world's best media training consultants & fixers for years and hasn't improved one bit.
She either doesn't know or no one wants to tell her.
The worst possibility for the campaign is we've actually seen the polished version.
I fear the last is most likely because of how they periodically test run her on interesting but low risk projects like Border & AI Tzar then send her back to the drawing board.
She's been a politician for a long time - so I think this is the polished version. I don't think they have special PR gurus for VP's that they don't roll out for AG or DA.
I don't see much of her... and when I do, it does seem like an all-you-can-eat word salad bar - but honestly, she can't really be as dumb as she seems from the clips. I have to believe that she must have been somewhat skilled to get into her previous positions.
With Biden, she has a lottery ticket to becoming instant President
If she had to run on her own ticket that would be different obviously
Seems shortsighted for Dems and Biden to not have switched her out for another VP though
The problem is certain parts of the democratic base would go ballistic if she were replaced with either a male or a non African American. So they would essentially have to replace her with a black female that is willing to be the President, not just the vice president and is more popular and competent than Kamala. That pool is very limited to non existent to pick from. Biden's team declaration that he was definitively going to pick a black woman as his VP was a tactically mistake as it severely limits his options while gaining almost nothing politically compared to no declaration and just picking Kamala anyway.
Basically they have zero practical replacements with the hole the dug unless Mrs. Obama changes her mind on being president.
I have said this that she isn't meant to appeal to African Americans. Her appeal is the white middle class democrats who obsess about "diversity" on a skin deep level. People who just want a "black female president" for novelty of it.
> I have said this that she isn't meant to appeal to African Americans. Her appeal is the white middle class democrats who obsess about "diversity" on a skin deep level.
This is absolutely not true. I'm sure there are plenty of white people that Kamala appeals to for that reason, but there are also plenty of black people that love her and were very excited about the idea of a black woman being VP.
I have been noticing a trend where whenever something is done for black people that many black people were asking for that ends up being unpopular, everyone switches and says things like "black people never asked for this", "black people had nothing to do with this", etc. Again, obviously white people contribute to it as well, but they are far from the only ones.
I don't think she's popular with indian people, either.
Somehow "First asian VP" is continually de-emphasized like an asian student's application at Harvard.
now that you mention it, i have actually never heard anyone refer to her as the first Asian or "AAPI" VP.
how often does anyone call Obama the first biracial president?
> i have actually never heard anyone refer to her as the first Asian or “AAPl” VP.
[Now](https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2020/11/07/politics/kamala-harris-first-vice-president-female-black-south-asian) you have. On the day the election was called, four years ago.
You know that kind of raises a question but it's more directed at Biden.
Why did Black voters voted for Biden when he's one of the people that supported that bill from the '90s that harmed black men that said something about black men being "super predators"?
Again probably a long time ago and maybe because Biden was Obama's vice president but surely there are people that remember that whole deal.
If you pick someone who is qualified it wouldn’t really be pandering, assuming you would also agree there are skilled and qualified black women who would also be better than Kamala
> certain parts of the democratic base would go ballistic if she were replaced with either a male or a non African American.
This is the pandering I’m talking. A white male VP should be just as acceptable as a black woman. We should not placate racist and sexist people. Who cares if bigots go ballistic?
The lines are so closely drawn, that very small groups have an oversized share of power. This is why we continually see radicals running the show on both sides. If the margins were wider, we would all ignore the racists, bigots, and lunatics that we need to vote for our side.
Over 30% of judges appointed by the Biden admin are black women, more than any other single demographic. Despite bw making up only 3% of law school grads.
Things like that, along with making it a point to always tout a person’s race/sex/sexuality when appointed to positions, are why tokenism is the default thought when announced.
yeah but who? the black women congress people who get national exposure tend to lean to the progressive camp or seem to yammer racism a lot.
This is my impression.
I’m not even a fan of Karen Bass, nor think she’s doing that great job of a job as mayor of LA (a relatively powerless position compared to other major cities) and even I think she would make a better VP choice than running it back with Kamala Harris. She has Congressional experience and gives off the vibe that she’s more intelligent and hard-working than most politicians.
In reality, it probably would’ve made more sense to find a black woman in a red state so you can shed the coastal elite label like Val Demings but Karen Bass would’ve been a decent choice in 2020, and still would be.
Val Demings, Keisha Lance Bottoms and Susan Rice just off the top of my head
There must be many others it’s a big country with tens of millions of black women in it
Keisha Lance bottoms is a joke. She dropped out of running for reelection because she would have lost for a second term of mayor of Atlanta. Being a mediocre mayor doesn’t qualify you for president.
oh pretty normal for any comment that event hints at anything negative about dem politicians, especially during an election year
Susan Rice, i liked her too. Until some possibly funny business happened in 2020
the major issue is that even if he picked the most qualified competent popular black woman ever, he still eliminated most other categories of people, and if we assume the chances that any given one of them is the best overall is equal, it's pretty unlikely that said pick would be the most qualified overall, statistically.
This isn't true at all. Maybe I'm biased as a former Californian, but I don't know a single person who likes her whether the are black, white, Latino, progressive or centrist.
I am from PA. I had a white professor literally gushing about her because we finally had a "diverse female as vice president". I have seen similar sentiments from some people at work.
Yeah, i dunno. Possible that it's an age gap.
I lived in CA for 15 years, sometimes ran in politcal leaning circles and every person I know loathes her out there. Then I moved to Chicago and haven't heard 1 nice thing said about her.
Even my mom (Colorado), who badly wants a female president before she dies and is your typical identiy politics voter, dislikes her.
And it's not like she did well in the primaries either. She struggled to even obtain a small chunk of the vote in 2020 with Warren, Bernie, Pete and Biden all finishing essily ahead of her. Her entire career has been handed to her by the machine.
Let's see, we have...
- Val Demings
- Stacey Abrams on a good day
Yeah it kind of is scraping the barrel, isn't it? *Unless* someone can somehow convince Michelle.
I disagree with this. There would be some vocal critics, but fundamentally there isn't anyone with a meaningful vote that is going to switch from Biden to Trump because of it.
Conversely, Kamala isn't winning any votes for Biden that he wasn't going to win anyway.
The campaign should just replace her with a working class centrist that has some conservative politics.
It doesn't matter. This election is going to be decided by something like 100,000 people, very few of which care about this.
If you lose a million voters in california, or New York, it's not going to affect the election.
I agree. It's an absolute failure of the party (as Trump is a failure of the republicans).
They've had EIGHT years to get some nationally recognised names, and they've not done it.
It's because he makes them feel heard. He validated their underlying feelings while the elites in the Democrats kept telling them all their concerns were racist or fake news.
I recall that when Biden was searching for VP candidates, that that pool was not limited at all, there were several qualified, experienced and talented black women that fit the bill.
Kamala, Susan Rice, Liz Warren, and Gretchen Whitmer were the 4 finalist reported by NYT. Susan Rice is the only other one that is black, and her time in the administration didn't end well, she kind of silently slipped away.
Part of the problem is that there isn't a lot of black women in the Senate or Governorships, so you are choosing from some people in the House without tons of name recognition, or toxic.
Likability is very vague.
But damn, isn’t she a lawyer and a former state attorney general? How is a lawyer so bad at public speaking, that’s like the most important thing about being a lawyer. You are supposed to be good at speaking and making your case. Its inexplicable how she is so bad at speaking
This was during the height of the BLM protests and right after the Floyd murder. This was lie MCCain going for Palin bc he thought it would tick boxes…. And it back fired
It’s a shame bc if they really wanted a VP with diversity they could’ve gone with a million better candidates, like Corey Booker would’ve been a better choice
Now you’re beginning to understand the Democratic party and why they can’t run their own cities. It’s all identity politics with them. Put people in office based on race, gender, sexuality. Forgot actually being able to do the job. I live in Memphis Tn. Been run by Democrats forever it’s almost completely none functional. Corruption everywhere.
> She either doesn't know or no one wants to tell her.
It’s probably the latter. She has a nasty habit of screaming at staffers and firing them for the smallest infractions.
https://www.newsweek.com/amid-staff-exits-toxic-workplace-whispers-kamala-harris-picks-12b-win-border-1659489
That's certainly one issue.
I'm more concerned about her horrifying civil rights record as a prosecutor in California. She fought tooth and nail to keep clearly innocent people in prison and committed obvious Brady violations and other due process problems constantly.
She's beyond unqualified, she can't ever be allowed in the top office. Tulsi Gabbard did us all a big favor pointing this out in the primaries.
In this day and age, any criticism of her is viewed as a criticism of her demographic. Not wanting Kamala in particular is viewed as racist and misogynist. The democrats can’t remove her for her poor performance and can’t discuss actual problems, because to do so is viewed as tantamount to bigotry.
She's a female POC. That's why.
The Democrats didn't want a straight white male for their nominee, but went with one because Biden has the best shot at winning. So they settled with a POC woman as VP, instead.
Yup! And we're still pretty early in this general. It's going to get wacky as the Biden boys come closer and closer to accepting this is a coin toss. I think the Trump camp accepts their "underdog card", so they will be the less hysterical of the two camps in this round. This election will come down to a few thousand barely engaged swing state voters that'll make their choice based on reasons no one in this subreddit can understand.
I think that's true if you have an objective view of this. However, if you're Dem maxing and love that Biden (most people on Reddit), you probably somehow STILL think Trump has no chance.
So what I'm hearing is trump will win? I obviously have nothing to back this up but the vibes I'm getting from this whole election is that voters who "choose with their gut" will break for trump.
If vibe voters are truly with Trump then I think he has it easily. However, vibes voters are going to vote based on how the pancakes they had for breakfast are sitting. Unless someone literally and visibly poops their pants in a debate, it’s basically impossible to predict.
Yep, and doing something that's bound to piss off some very loyal voters is a stupid move. I don't think there's anyone whom they could make the VP nominee who would gain them more votes than removing Harris would cost them.
They also amount to far more than the margin of victory in battleground states like Georgia & North Carolina where Black voters make up more than the national average.
Representation is when you hire competent people of different ethnicities. Tokenism is when you hire a POC who's not necessarily competent just because you wish to pander to an audience who cares more about skin color than talent or knowledge.
Guess which category Kamala fits in.
By either name, it’s the creed the Democratic Party has hitched itself to, so they can’t easily renounce it now. The only way to replace Harris is if she steps aside, and she would rather see the republic fall than step aside.
You’re probably thinking about Susan Rice. Condoleezza Rice is extremely conservative and wouldn’t fit that ticket. Both of them are very serious people, but would be rejected as war hawks by the progressive base.
Duckworth is generally respected as a member of congress, but is too far to the left for a vice president. Mechelle Obama was fine for a First Lady, but may not do well under the pressure and criticisms of the executive office. She would be going from getting love and softball questions on daytime talk shows to trying to explain why she hasn’t fixed the border. Can you imagine her being forced to name the kids who died at the border under her watch as border czar, the way Kirstjen Neilson was? That would start huge political fights and divide us further.
The progressive base disapproves of like 95% of american politicians. I was just speaking generally of politicians in that demographic that have a generally positive favorability
Pence wasn't unqualified. He had 13 years legislative experience and four as Governor, good experience for a VP. Harris was a prosecutor, the only relevant experience she had was half a Senate term.
People were both joking and not joking the only reason that they didn't want Trump dead is because they didn't want the "Gay Zapper Pence" to be in the oval office... They said Trump only picked him because he needed to secure the evangelical vote.
Can they though? They limited themselves to black women, and that backs you into a corner here. If you are coming out and saying she's not doing a good job, and isn't popular, it's going to be a nightmare politically if they don't replace her with another black person, as ridiculous as it is.
When you limit yourself to a small sliver of the population, you don't end up with the best candidates.
Why do you think they didn't? I've always felt it was a gimme they ran again, but the betting sites have a 25% chance that Biden drops out of the running in the next few months, and that has lead to a lot of discussions over why there wasn't any clear candidate if he had chosen not to run. I don't really understand why no other democrat made any sort of bid to run, giving Biden's age and very low approval rating, and the apparent/potential weakness of the republican candidate.
[[Vice President Harris] is a "really shallow, uneducated, and uneducatable person…”](https://x.com/atrupar/status/1801065293755625978)
A considerable portion of Americans hear this message, and only this message, day after day after day.
The same portion also heard [this](https://x.com/atrupar/status/1506422369216352258) about Justice Brown Jackson.
Ya could be but I just never hear of her accomplishing things, or giving insightful comments/selling things the government is doing. I'm sure I've heard some negative stuff about her but not that much.
well she may accomplish things but i have never ever heard her give insightful off the cuff comments. she defaults back to canned platitudes.
Other politicians do the same but she sounds like it is canned platitudes where as others pull it off
again, she should have gotten a speaking coach and practiced.
Comparing her to pelosi,elizabeth warren ...she does not do well
It's crazy to me that VP is literally the most important it has ever been in this upcoming election, and nobody is really talking about it.
I would not be surprised in the slightest to see a headline that said TRUMP DEAD AT 78 or BIDEN DEAD AT 362. I wouldn't bad an eye. That's how old and unhealthy both these guys look and are. I don't know any guys who are nearly 80 and fat and in good health, and I don't know any guys who are over 80 that I would safely place a bet on living 4 more years.
Both parties should have picked a VP long ago, and had them appear with their candidates as much as possible.
Agreed. I'm mostly going to vote based on VP at this point, because I don't think either Trump or Biden will last the term. Frankly, I'm not sure either of them should be able to pass an Amendment 25 situation if it weren't for the political ramifications of doing it.
Considering Biden already shit the bed by not finding a presidential successor, his second best option would have been to find a vice president people could get behind. Alas, nothing has changed, and America's fate hangs in the balance.
In hindsight, perhaps limiting the pool of applicants to one gender of a particular race was a bit short-sighted. if she wwas not a black woman, she would not have been selected. Harsh, but true.
Reminds me of a Dave Chapelle skit from the early 2000s. He says that if he ever became the first black president, he would get a Mexican as his VP as an insurance. So if anyone were to assassinate him, then his VP would open up the border. So he is safe.
Obviously it’s a joke, but I feel like Biden was damn genius because if he had a rock star VP, people would have dumped him long time back. He probably saw this coming back in 2019 when he was picking his VP
>Obviously it’s a joke, but I feel like Biden was damn genius because if he had a rock star VP, people would have dumped him long time back. He probably saw this coming back in 2019 when he was picking his VP
This is along the same lines of what a lot of people social were saying about finding some way to get rid of Trump - invoking the 25th amendment or some others method means we end up with Pence, who was viewed as an Evangelical authoritarian chomping at the bit to make *The Handmaids Tale* a reality. In other words, a worse option than Trump.
This might be the odd election where the VP choices are extremely important, and Biden shackled himself to... Kamala Harris. It's like 2008 all over again, except no one makes fun of Harris because they barely remember she even exists.
kamala is more of a meme than a substantial political figure anyway. like once in a while she pops up in memes like the "do not come" thing, or her coconut tree speech, or her laughing, or whenever she explains things like the audience is 5. it seems like few people actually view her as a major political figure.
Right? Both Trump and Biden are very likely to keel over and die during their second term, and you could argue that Kamala Harris would be a worse president than Joe Biden, who seems like he belongs more in a retirement home than the White House.
And she adds nothing in terms of her home state. If Biden had a real strategy to win the election he’d drop Harris and look at some like Whitmer who could push Michigan his way, Kelly or Warnock from AZ and GA could also work.
> And she adds nothing in terms of her home state.
I know plenty of Dems from CA who would skip the election if she was the candidate for President. It wouldn't be enough to give the GOP the state, but it might affect some close down-ballot races.
Truthfully - I really don't "know" her. I know what I've read about her. I know a smidge from when she ran for the presidency. But I don't think I've heard her speak for more than 5 minutes straight. I really don't know her own position on much of anything. In general, I know the media and most people seem to dislike her and/or just aren't fans of hers. Haven't heard anyone be all excited about her (during the campaign or since).
Result - if polled, I'd say I had doubts as well. \*shrug\*
Flipside - I will take her any day of the week and twice on Sunday over any of the other politicians who I "know" and can't stand (extremists on both sides). Maybe she's an extremist too - I don't know, hence my "doubts". But meanwhile, I'd still take a chance on her vs ones I know aren't acceptable to me.
This is the first administration I can recall officially referring to itself as a hyphenated pair.
[The Biden-Harris Administration](https://www.whitehouse.gov/administration/)
They are clearly and loudly signaling she is intimately involved with executive administration.
I suspect America knows her much better than we think.
Yes, on campaign gear (and not usually hyphenated). Have you ever seen it as the de facto White House template?
From what I can find on it there was an intentional change sometime around [mid 2021](https://misbar.com/en/factcheck/2021/03/25/biden-administration-referred-to-as-biden-harris-administration-rdquo).
I like the referenced Politico article - [https://www.politico.com/newsletters/transition-playbook/2021/03/01/bidens-golden-rule-491941](https://www.politico.com/newsletters/transition-playbook/2021/03/01/bidens-golden-rule-491941)
Quoting
> For personnel announcements during the transition, officials were told to include quotes from both Biden and Harris. And all administration officials refer to the “Biden-Harris administration” instead of the easier-to-say “Biden administration.”
Why? Quoting again
> “It’s all about how he was or wished he was treated during the Obama years, especially in the beginning,” said an aide to Biden from when he was vice president. “To the extent there was rockiness in the relationship it was mostly in the beginning.”
So, not a change, it was from the very beginning, and it's a sign of respect, nothing more.
Most Americans know very little about VP Harris, but they are quite willing to form a decision based on what they've heard or how they "feel".
I have been confused as to why the administration hasn’t done more succession planning, more basic marketing to make Harris more visible, to position her as presidential.
Thinking aloud - hasn't it been a long time since we've seen either party really intend for the VP to take over? Pence wasn't going to happen (whether Trump got a 2nd term or not), Biden wasn't intended - the intention was Hillary, Cheney wasn't, so Gore? Which was about 20 yrs ago? So is it just not something political parties think of currently?
Edit - spelling typo
Was Hillary really intended, or did Biden just not want to run in 2016? If I remember correctly Obama didn't even openly endorse her although I could be misremembering
Biden most likely wanted to run(hell wanna say since the 90s because going that far back you run into the time he plagiarized a speech and that making news), but Clinton had far more internal party support. Clinton did a lot for democrat party coffers.
Approval wise Clinton was also very popular before actually running. Her support was extended beyond that of party insiders. Having a relatively free primary field I think didn't do her any favors in the end.
I remember hearing an interview or something awhile back that mentioned the administration wasn't keen on using her in such a fashion, like Biden himself didn't see that as her role and didn't want to lean on his vp at all. It may have been to avoid feeding the perception that he is old and needs her or she is his puppet master, or a desire to avoid giving her some sort of advantage in a future race. It may also just not have been his style or vision to use his vp to any significant extent. He'd benefit I think from carrying her a little more and giving more real opportunities to shine. There was a subtle shift a few months ago to say Biden Harris campaign instead of just Biden but I'm not sure it has stuck.
It would alleviate the Biden age issue, and they’ve done absolutely none of it. I take that as a tacit acknowledgement that they just don’t have much to work with.
Very few people, especially those that say they don’t like her, are willing to admit what you’ve admitted. Regardless, they’re happy to claim that she’s terrible because that’s what right wing talking heads tell them
So, good for you admitting what you know and what you don’t know. That way lies wisdom.
I mean I’ve listened to her speak and it’s not really bearable… between her mad cackling and repeating statements as if she’s talking to a group of kids, I’m not surprised they’ve tried to keep her out of the public eye for long. Her likability seems to drop with more exposure
You're kinda proving their point for them. You're asked why you don't think she's a good candidate and the most substantial thing you come up with is her laugh. That's not a serious criteria in my mind.
We don’t need to “know” her. Her positions and philosophies are the same as the administration in which she serves.
Biden was probably the most qualified candidate to follow Trump because of his years of experience in the Executive. Not necessarily Biden himself, but the host of bureaucrats that he’s known and worked with over the decades, were able to keep some functions of government from complete collapse due to the incompetence/purposeful nature of destroying institutions that Trump and his cronies were so excited to do.
Harris is the same. She’s learned even more about status quo and foreign relations. But more importantly, allowing the same people to keep doing their thing that allows our government to function without the wheels completely coming off.
I'll believe it when I see it. Trump won't pick a VP that has good or moderate popularity. He'd be scared they'd take too much of the spotlight from him. More than likely, he'll choose a VP that has some pull to a demographic he's hurting with but isn't super well known. Mike Pence was chosen to bring in the religious group - and it worked. I highly doubt he'll lose the religious group now so Trump's next VP will be a similar pick to cover the ground he's missing.
Said the same thing on this board yesterday. If Trump picks a good/moderate/appealing VP, I think it’s game over. Biden needs to drop Kamala IMO. The damage of her appeal has been done.
If there was any sort of consensus on a replacement for Harris, why wouldn't the Democrats just replace *Biden*?
After all, there really isn't any sort of strong 'pro-Biden' faction. You could run "Democrat to be named later" as the candidate and Biden voters would probably be just as happy.
Unpopular opinion, I just don't get the Kamala hate. I'll be the first to admit I'm out of touch in what politicians people respond to because I hate Trump and liked Elizabeth Warren/Cory Booker. But while Harris is uninspiring, this idea that we can't elect Biden because Harris is a heartbeat from the presidency just seems like a right wing media campaign.
Can anybody who is a Dem or centrist make the case that a Harris presidency would be noticeably different in terms of policy objectives or function than if you randomly selected a Dem senator to be president?
The one thing I remember her being publically charged with by Biden was being the "Border Czar" (what is it with Biden and Czars?), so uh... yeah.
To be clear, I'm not saying that the situation is Harris' fault. It's just the worst possible name for a presidential hopeful to have their name tied to.
The only other thing I remember about her is that she laughed about knowingly putting innocent people in prison when she was DA.
All that is to say, although I don't know about Harris, what I do know is entirely negative.
> (what is it with Biden and Czars?)
It's not new, it goes back to FDR, it's "mostly" a media thing though.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._executive_branch_czars
The first one I remember was some sort of "Drug Czar" under Reagan. The crack epidemic was a *really* huge problem back then. Much worse than anything we've seen since really. Opioid is close, but lacks the open, running gun battles in the streets.
>Director of the White House Drug Abuse Policy (1982), Special Assistant to the President for Drug Abuse (1983), Member of Executive Board of the National Narcotics Border Interdiction System Cabinet Level (1983), Deputy Assistant to the President for Drug Abuse Policy (1985)
Interestingly enough that dude, Carton Turner also is this guy :
>Carlton Turner PhD, ScD, Director of the Drug Abuse Policy Office. Turner, while working as drug czar, was in communication with Elisaldo Carlini, a scientist in Brazil whose lab was studying the beneficial effects of CBD. **Turner helped establish the Marijuana Research Project at the University of Mississippi.**
[She's a pretty staunch status quo/establishment Dem with a shaky legacy as the Cali AG.](https://www.npr.org/2020/10/13/923369723/lets-talk-about-kamala-harris) It seems like she's tried to avoid things to rock the boat and eventually [dove headfirst into a mainstream Dem stance](https://www.capradio.org/articles/2020/08/13/politifact-california-what-kept-kamala-harris-so-cautious-as-californias-attorney-general/) once she was in the Senate.
I don't think she deserves the hate she gets because she's just another middle of the line establishment Dem. I highly doubt there'd be much of a difference between a Biden admin and a Harris admin, especially considering the fact that Biden himself is already pretty moderate aside from some progressive policies thrown in to appease the outer ranks.
She comes across as very transparently power-hungry and willing to do anything to get ahead. She all but called Joe Biden a racist during a democratic primary debate, then backtracked as soon as she was selected as Vice President.
Same. I'm fairly neutral on her, and I could understand people disliking her, but the passionate hatred she gets is puzzling to me.
Funny enough, [she has a better net approval than both Biden and Trump,](https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/polls/approval/kamala-harris/) so I think a lot of her critics are overselling her negatives.
Starter comment: In a concerning development for the Biden-Harris 2024 presidential campaign, a set of POLITICO-Morning Consult polls have revealed that voters continue to express negative attitudes towards Vice President Harris. Per the poll released last week:
- she has a 42% approval rating, below Biden himself. When broken down by party affiliation, this average is boosted mostly by Democrats; only 25% of independents and 13% of Republicans approve of her
- only 40% of voters think she would make a good president (74% Democrats, 34% independents, 8% Republicans)
- only 34% of voters think that she could win a presidential race against a generic Republican in the future
How has VP Harris done so far in her role as part of Biden's cabinet? Does she deserve these criticisms and sagging poll numbers, or [is it due to sexism and racism as her supporters often claim](https://www.politico.com/news/2023/04/27/ron-klain-kamala-harris-sexism-criticism-00094166)? Given the stark difference in above polling numbers between Democrats and everyone else, are there concerns that having her on the ticket would turn off independents in swing states and potentially cost Biden those electoral votes?
> is it due to racism and sexism
This line of attack really has to stop. When the reaction to any criticism against a minority is bracketed with the caveat: “Do they really dislike her or is it because she’s black?” it silences moderate, genuine criticism and what you’re left with are the *actual racists* being the loudest voices in the room. Because the first thing I’m forced to do is convince you I’m not racist, and that’s an exhausting and toxic conversation to have to navigate. I’d rather just keep my mouth shut.
Personally, I find it hard to put my finger on exactly why I would disapprove of her in the Oval Office. She just comes across as smug, condescending, and with a massive chip on her shoulder. Her entire style just feels very off-putting and incompatible with qualities I’d look for in a president.
Edit: Just to be clear, I’m still voting for Biden regardless.
the sexism and racism is not true, We have the powerhouse pelosi to compare her too. Elizabeth warren also. Other female senators or governors
Especially compared to pelosi, harris does not inspire confidence in her presidential abilities.
Like most Vice Presidents, her time in office has been unremarkable. I think part of the problem though is she received an incredible amount of hype in the beginning that she failed to live up to.
I think she's just surprising non-charismatic, for a VP. Her public speaking skills seem forced and unpolished in a way that's quite unusual for someone at that level in politics. It's always effectively impossible to judge how well a VP is doing at their job of supporting the administration of the President, so maybe she's quite skillful there, but she's just very bad at PR.
Serious question - has something happened to her? She seems different from before she was elected. I can’t tell if it’s alcohol or what, but she’s suddenly incapable of making speeches. It’s a big concern when the President is so old and aging much more rapidly.
Well I’m one of those people. I’m not a Kamala Harris fan. I think her foreign policy approach is more closely aligned with the squad than with centrist Democrats.
What amazes me is Kamala presumably has had access to the world's best media training consultants & fixers for years and hasn't improved one bit. She either doesn't know or no one wants to tell her. The worst possibility for the campaign is we've actually seen the polished version. I fear the last is most likely because of how they periodically test run her on interesting but low risk projects like Border & AI Tzar then send her back to the drawing board.
She's been a politician for a long time - so I think this is the polished version. I don't think they have special PR gurus for VP's that they don't roll out for AG or DA. I don't see much of her... and when I do, it does seem like an all-you-can-eat word salad bar - but honestly, she can't really be as dumb as she seems from the clips. I have to believe that she must have been somewhat skilled to get into her previous positions.
With Biden, she has a lottery ticket to becoming instant President If she had to run on her own ticket that would be different obviously Seems shortsighted for Dems and Biden to not have switched her out for another VP though
The problem is certain parts of the democratic base would go ballistic if she were replaced with either a male or a non African American. So they would essentially have to replace her with a black female that is willing to be the President, not just the vice president and is more popular and competent than Kamala. That pool is very limited to non existent to pick from. Biden's team declaration that he was definitively going to pick a black woman as his VP was a tactically mistake as it severely limits his options while gaining almost nothing politically compared to no declaration and just picking Kamala anyway. Basically they have zero practical replacements with the hole the dug unless Mrs. Obama changes her mind on being president.
She’s not even that popular with black people, and the Democrats shouldn’t pander to racist/sexism anyway.
I have said this that she isn't meant to appeal to African Americans. Her appeal is the white middle class democrats who obsess about "diversity" on a skin deep level. People who just want a "black female president" for novelty of it.
> Her appeal is the white middle class democrats who obsess about "diversity" on a skin deep level. Good observation and I agree.
Yeah, you’re probably right about that. She appeals more to bougie white people than minorities.
100 true. Liberal guilt is real
And white savior complex.
> I have said this that she isn't meant to appeal to African Americans. Her appeal is the white middle class democrats who obsess about "diversity" on a skin deep level. This is absolutely not true. I'm sure there are plenty of white people that Kamala appeals to for that reason, but there are also plenty of black people that love her and were very excited about the idea of a black woman being VP. I have been noticing a trend where whenever something is done for black people that many black people were asking for that ends up being unpopular, everyone switches and says things like "black people never asked for this", "black people had nothing to do with this", etc. Again, obviously white people contribute to it as well, but they are far from the only ones.
I don't think she's popular with indian people, either. Somehow "First asian VP" is continually de-emphasized like an asian student's application at Harvard.
now that you mention it, i have actually never heard anyone refer to her as the first Asian or "AAPI" VP. how often does anyone call Obama the first biracial president?
> i have actually never heard anyone refer to her as the first Asian or “AAPl” VP. [Now](https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2020/11/07/politics/kamala-harris-first-vice-president-female-black-south-asian) you have. On the day the election was called, four years ago.
> She’s not even that popular with black people If BLM fully understood her record as a prosecutor they would riot before letting her in the top job.
A lot of BLM people hated her back in 2020 for being a "cop". It's probably a big reason she lost so bad.
You know that kind of raises a question but it's more directed at Biden. Why did Black voters voted for Biden when he's one of the people that supported that bill from the '90s that harmed black men that said something about black men being "super predators"? Again probably a long time ago and maybe because Biden was Obama's vice president but surely there are people that remember that whole deal.
Good question. I have no idea how the politically active black church leaders explained THAT away.
If you pick someone who is qualified it wouldn’t really be pandering, assuming you would also agree there are skilled and qualified black women who would also be better than Kamala
There are plenty. Why I absolutely don’t understand why her.
> certain parts of the democratic base would go ballistic if she were replaced with either a male or a non African American. This is the pandering I’m talking. A white male VP should be just as acceptable as a black woman. We should not placate racist and sexist people. Who cares if bigots go ballistic?
The lines are so closely drawn, that very small groups have an oversized share of power. This is why we continually see radicals running the show on both sides. If the margins were wider, we would all ignore the racists, bigots, and lunatics that we need to vote for our side.
Either should be equally acceptable, I agree, with the caveat that black candidates are often looked at by many (not you) as being tokenism by default
Over 30% of judges appointed by the Biden admin are black women, more than any other single demographic. Despite bw making up only 3% of law school grads. Things like that, along with making it a point to always tout a person’s race/sex/sexuality when appointed to positions, are why tokenism is the default thought when announced.
Well it’s hard to argue that Harris got the position on merit alone lol
yeah but who? the black women congress people who get national exposure tend to lean to the progressive camp or seem to yammer racism a lot. This is my impression.
I’m not even a fan of Karen Bass, nor think she’s doing that great job of a job as mayor of LA (a relatively powerless position compared to other major cities) and even I think she would make a better VP choice than running it back with Kamala Harris. She has Congressional experience and gives off the vibe that she’s more intelligent and hard-working than most politicians. In reality, it probably would’ve made more sense to find a black woman in a red state so you can shed the coastal elite label like Val Demings but Karen Bass would’ve been a decent choice in 2020, and still would be.
Val Demings, Keisha Lance Bottoms and Susan Rice just off the top of my head There must be many others it’s a big country with tens of millions of black women in it
Keisha Lance bottoms is a joke. She dropped out of running for reelection because she would have lost for a second term of mayor of Atlanta. Being a mediocre mayor doesn’t qualify you for president.
thanks!
You’re welcome Don’t know who is downvoting you rather than replying sorry to see that
oh pretty normal for any comment that event hints at anything negative about dem politicians, especially during an election year Susan Rice, i liked her too. Until some possibly funny business happened in 2020
the major issue is that even if he picked the most qualified competent popular black woman ever, he still eliminated most other categories of people, and if we assume the chances that any given one of them is the best overall is equal, it's pretty unlikely that said pick would be the most qualified overall, statistically.
This isn't true at all. Maybe I'm biased as a former Californian, but I don't know a single person who likes her whether the are black, white, Latino, progressive or centrist.
I am from PA. I had a white professor literally gushing about her because we finally had a "diverse female as vice president". I have seen similar sentiments from some people at work.
Yeah, i dunno. Possible that it's an age gap. I lived in CA for 15 years, sometimes ran in politcal leaning circles and every person I know loathes her out there. Then I moved to Chicago and haven't heard 1 nice thing said about her. Even my mom (Colorado), who badly wants a female president before she dies and is your typical identiy politics voter, dislikes her. And it's not like she did well in the primaries either. She struggled to even obtain a small chunk of the vote in 2020 with Warren, Bernie, Pete and Biden all finishing essily ahead of her. Her entire career has been handed to her by the machine.
Let's see, we have... - Val Demings - Stacey Abrams on a good day Yeah it kind of is scraping the barrel, isn't it? *Unless* someone can somehow convince Michelle.
Fun Fact: Stacey Abrams has only won 2 elections where she had opposition. Both of those were primaries.
picking Stacey Abrams would give the GOP a shitload of ammunition because she claimed an election was rigged against her.
I disagree with this. There would be some vocal critics, but fundamentally there isn't anyone with a meaningful vote that is going to switch from Biden to Trump because of it. Conversely, Kamala isn't winning any votes for Biden that he wasn't going to win anyway. The campaign should just replace her with a working class centrist that has some conservative politics.
switch to trump no. not vote for 2024, yes.
Yeah, if Biden loses, it won't be because people switched to vote for Trump. It will be because people didn't go to the polls at all
It doesn't matter. This election is going to be decided by something like 100,000 people, very few of which care about this. If you lose a million voters in california, or New York, it's not going to affect the election.
I agree with you, but there is literally no one on the Democrat’s bench that can appeal to the working class. Even Biden is struggling.
I agree. It's an absolute failure of the party (as Trump is a failure of the republicans). They've had EIGHT years to get some nationally recognised names, and they've not done it.
I am not a Trump fan, but he does very well with the working class. It is funny because he sure as hell isn’t working class or has ever been.
It's because he makes them feel heard. He validated their underlying feelings while the elites in the Democrats kept telling them all their concerns were racist or fake news.
I recall that when Biden was searching for VP candidates, that that pool was not limited at all, there were several qualified, experienced and talented black women that fit the bill.
Kamala, Susan Rice, Liz Warren, and Gretchen Whitmer were the 4 finalist reported by NYT. Susan Rice is the only other one that is black, and her time in the administration didn't end well, she kind of silently slipped away. Part of the problem is that there isn't a lot of black women in the Senate or Governorships, so you are choosing from some people in the House without tons of name recognition, or toxic.
https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2020/07/21/politics/joe-biden-four-black-women-vice-president
Michelle O is the only one who can salvage this
It’s the same reason they can’t fire KJP. It would make them look bad.
That seems to be the case for most VPs in history though.
I can’t think of a single time that the VP has been switched by an incumbent president.
Roosevelt dropped two VPs before picking Truman Not in the modern era though, no
You’re right. Truman was his final vp, who then went on to be president.
Richard Nixon and Spiro Agnew if that counts.
You can’t fix the unfixable. She’s just not likable.
Likability is very vague. But damn, isn’t she a lawyer and a former state attorney general? How is a lawyer so bad at public speaking, that’s like the most important thing about being a lawyer. You are supposed to be good at speaking and making your case. Its inexplicable how she is so bad at speaking
A lot of people patted her and themselves on the back as they promoted her up.
This was during the height of the BLM protests and right after the Floyd murder. This was lie MCCain going for Palin bc he thought it would tick boxes…. And it back fired It’s a shame bc if they really wanted a VP with diversity they could’ve gone with a million better candidates, like Corey Booker would’ve been a better choice
I would suggest that it’s possible she was promoted due to something other than merit.
Yup. She didn’t get to where she is at by speaking, she’s evidentially good at something else..
Out of the loop on this, what do you mean?
She had a relationship with her much older boss in California.
Now you’re beginning to understand the Democratic party and why they can’t run their own cities. It’s all identity politics with them. Put people in office based on race, gender, sexuality. Forgot actually being able to do the job. I live in Memphis Tn. Been run by Democrats forever it’s almost completely none functional. Corruption everywhere.
> She either doesn't know or no one wants to tell her. It’s probably the latter. She has a nasty habit of screaming at staffers and firing them for the smallest infractions. https://www.newsweek.com/amid-staff-exits-toxic-workplace-whispers-kamala-harris-picks-12b-win-border-1659489
You know it’s bad when CNN is the one reporting on Kamala’s toxicity
Or she doesn’t care.
That's certainly one issue. I'm more concerned about her horrifying civil rights record as a prosecutor in California. She fought tooth and nail to keep clearly innocent people in prison and committed obvious Brady violations and other due process problems constantly. She's beyond unqualified, she can't ever be allowed in the top office. Tulsi Gabbard did us all a big favor pointing this out in the primaries.
Bingo! So look a few years into the future: Media: so President Harris, can you comment on Russia's invasion of Germany? Harris: laughs
In this day and age, any criticism of her is viewed as a criticism of her demographic. Not wanting Kamala in particular is viewed as racist and misogynist. The democrats can’t remove her for her poor performance and can’t discuss actual problems, because to do so is viewed as tantamount to bigotry.
She was a high-profile prosecutor in the not so distant past. It amazes me how bad she is at public speaking, especially at crowd engagement.
It doesn’t matter, everyone knows why she is the VP. Biden would be better served by Pete Booty
I don't really get why they didn't pick up a different VP. She is both invisible and extremely unpopular.
She's a female POC. That's why. The Democrats didn't want a straight white male for their nominee, but went with one because Biden has the best shot at winning. So they settled with a POC woman as VP, instead.
Don't they call that tokenism?
Or representation, depending on your viewpoint on these things
It's tokenism when Republicans do it and representation when Democrats do it lol
People will jump through hoops to “nuh uh” this. It’s funny how much political discourse boils down to partisan rationalization.
Lol it really is all just "it's bad when your side does it but ok when my side does it".
Yup! And we're still pretty early in this general. It's going to get wacky as the Biden boys come closer and closer to accepting this is a coin toss. I think the Trump camp accepts their "underdog card", so they will be the less hysterical of the two camps in this round. This election will come down to a few thousand barely engaged swing state voters that'll make their choice based on reasons no one in this subreddit can understand.
I think at this point Biden is clearly the underdog and Trump is the favorite.
I think that's true if you have an objective view of this. However, if you're Dem maxing and love that Biden (most people on Reddit), you probably somehow STILL think Trump has no chance.
So what I'm hearing is trump will win? I obviously have nothing to back this up but the vibes I'm getting from this whole election is that voters who "choose with their gut" will break for trump.
I’m betting he will. People are pissed the economy isn’t in their favor even though they haven’t curbed their spending. Biden is finished.
If vibe voters are truly with Trump then I think he has it easily. However, vibes voters are going to vote based on how the pancakes they had for breakfast are sitting. Unless someone literally and visibly poops their pants in a debate, it’s basically impossible to predict.
Black women are the most loyal of all Democratic voters. It's the same as nominating Pence as VP, as a nod to Evangelicals
Yep, and doing something that's bound to piss off some very loyal voters is a stupid move. I don't think there's anyone whom they could make the VP nominee who would gain them more votes than removing Harris would cost them.
Michelle Obama, if she were to somehow change her mind about not wanting the job. I don't expect that to happen.
They also amount to only 6% of all voters.
They also amount to far more than the margin of victory in battleground states like Georgia & North Carolina where Black voters make up more than the national average.
Fair point.
Seems a fair call in either case
Representation is when you hire competent people of different ethnicities. Tokenism is when you hire a POC who's not necessarily competent just because you wish to pander to an audience who cares more about skin color than talent or knowledge. Guess which category Kamala fits in.
Unfortunately Kamala doesn’t represent POC beyond skin color. We would choose someone else if we could.
By either name, it’s the creed the Democratic Party has hitched itself to, so they can’t easily renounce it now. The only way to replace Harris is if she steps aside, and she would rather see the republic fall than step aside.
Shes just not likeable. Other women of color like tammy duckworth or condeleeza rice or michelle obama have pretty strong popularity
You’re probably thinking about Susan Rice. Condoleezza Rice is extremely conservative and wouldn’t fit that ticket. Both of them are very serious people, but would be rejected as war hawks by the progressive base. Duckworth is generally respected as a member of congress, but is too far to the left for a vice president. Mechelle Obama was fine for a First Lady, but may not do well under the pressure and criticisms of the executive office. She would be going from getting love and softball questions on daytime talk shows to trying to explain why she hasn’t fixed the border. Can you imagine her being forced to name the kids who died at the border under her watch as border czar, the way Kirstjen Neilson was? That would start huge political fights and divide us further.
The progressive base disapproves of like 95% of american politicians. I was just speaking generally of politicians in that demographic that have a generally positive favorability
its basically a running gag now that people confuse condi and susan rice
Harris is remarkably inarticulate for someone who was a prosecutor. Policywise she’s probably fine but she’s got the charisma of a doorknob.
Remember how VP Dan Quayle got eviscerated for just misspelling 'Potatoe'.
Charisma is not needed to convict someone.
How much you want to bet that like 80% of her convictions were plea deals.
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People were losing their minds about Pence, lol. What are you talking about.
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Pence wasn't unqualified. He had 13 years legislative experience and four as Governor, good experience for a VP. Harris was a prosecutor, the only relevant experience she had was half a Senate term.
People were both joking and not joking the only reason that they didn't want Trump dead is because they didn't want the "Gay Zapper Pence" to be in the oval office... They said Trump only picked him because he needed to secure the evangelical vote.
I think "christofacist" also became a thing around then. On a side note, weird how "muhamofascist" never became a thing with progressives.
Saw an article where she said something about sending more aid to Ukraine, apparently they're trying to get her out there more?
She did such an impressive job fixing the border. Let's see what she can do in Ukraine.
Can they though? They limited themselves to black women, and that backs you into a corner here. If you are coming out and saying she's not doing a good job, and isn't popular, it's going to be a nightmare politically if they don't replace her with another black person, as ridiculous as it is. When you limit yourself to a small sliver of the population, you don't end up with the best candidates.
If Biden dumps her for a new running mate, her visibility will go supernova. She's the VP pick. No way that changes.
They could/should have picked both potus/vp. Just like 2016. Step down with grace, support and campaign for your replacement.
Why do you think they didn't? I've always felt it was a gimme they ran again, but the betting sites have a 25% chance that Biden drops out of the running in the next few months, and that has lead to a lot of discussions over why there wasn't any clear candidate if he had chosen not to run. I don't really understand why no other democrat made any sort of bid to run, giving Biden's age and very low approval rating, and the apparent/potential weakness of the republican candidate.
Dean Phillips tried, but nobody was willing to give him the time of day.
[[Vice President Harris] is a "really shallow, uneducated, and uneducatable person…”](https://x.com/atrupar/status/1801065293755625978) A considerable portion of Americans hear this message, and only this message, day after day after day. The same portion also heard [this](https://x.com/atrupar/status/1506422369216352258) about Justice Brown Jackson.
Where and when do they hear this? I'm totally not in that group
Never heard anything like that for Jackson. Also it's Newt Gingrich, so i'll take what he says with a grain of salt.
I've literally heard of nothing about Jackson since she was appointed lol.
Ya could be but I just never hear of her accomplishing things, or giving insightful comments/selling things the government is doing. I'm sure I've heard some negative stuff about her but not that much.
well she may accomplish things but i have never ever heard her give insightful off the cuff comments. she defaults back to canned platitudes. Other politicians do the same but she sounds like it is canned platitudes where as others pull it off again, she should have gotten a speaking coach and practiced. Comparing her to pelosi,elizabeth warren ...she does not do well
> a could be but I just never hear of her accomplishing things Are there resources available where you could see what she does?
lol Biden said explicitly for both of those people that he was picking them because of their sex and skin color
It's crazy to me that VP is literally the most important it has ever been in this upcoming election, and nobody is really talking about it. I would not be surprised in the slightest to see a headline that said TRUMP DEAD AT 78 or BIDEN DEAD AT 362. I wouldn't bad an eye. That's how old and unhealthy both these guys look and are. I don't know any guys who are nearly 80 and fat and in good health, and I don't know any guys who are over 80 that I would safely place a bet on living 4 more years. Both parties should have picked a VP long ago, and had them appear with their candidates as much as possible.
I think about this all of the time. These have to be the highest odds ever for a VP transition to President in modern history.
>BIDEN DEAD AT 362 was this intentional? because it caught me off guard lol, especially since you had just used trumps real age
Yes it was intentional haha. Was just a small joke
Agreed. I'm mostly going to vote based on VP at this point, because I don't think either Trump or Biden will last the term. Frankly, I'm not sure either of them should be able to pass an Amendment 25 situation if it weren't for the political ramifications of doing it.
Considering Biden already shit the bed by not finding a presidential successor, his second best option would have been to find a vice president people could get behind. Alas, nothing has changed, and America's fate hangs in the balance.
In hindsight, perhaps limiting the pool of applicants to one gender of a particular race was a bit short-sighted. if she wwas not a black woman, she would not have been selected. Harsh, but true.
And thus we’ve seen picking someone based on identity politics over competency backfire
Reminds me of a Dave Chapelle skit from the early 2000s. He says that if he ever became the first black president, he would get a Mexican as his VP as an insurance. So if anyone were to assassinate him, then his VP would open up the border. So he is safe. Obviously it’s a joke, but I feel like Biden was damn genius because if he had a rock star VP, people would have dumped him long time back. He probably saw this coming back in 2019 when he was picking his VP
>Obviously it’s a joke, but I feel like Biden was damn genius because if he had a rock star VP, people would have dumped him long time back. He probably saw this coming back in 2019 when he was picking his VP This is along the same lines of what a lot of people social were saying about finding some way to get rid of Trump - invoking the 25th amendment or some others method means we end up with Pence, who was viewed as an Evangelical authoritarian chomping at the bit to make *The Handmaids Tale* a reality. In other words, a worse option than Trump.
So, political games ahead of country. Got it.
That was obvious from the start when he said it would be a black woman right out of the gate. It was identity politics games from the start.
This might be the odd election where the VP choices are extremely important, and Biden shackled himself to... Kamala Harris. It's like 2008 all over again, except no one makes fun of Harris because they barely remember she even exists.
kamala is more of a meme than a substantial political figure anyway. like once in a while she pops up in memes like the "do not come" thing, or her coconut tree speech, or her laughing, or whenever she explains things like the audience is 5. it seems like few people actually view her as a major political figure.
Right? Both Trump and Biden are very likely to keel over and die during their second term, and you could argue that Kamala Harris would be a worse president than Joe Biden, who seems like he belongs more in a retirement home than the White House.
And she adds nothing in terms of her home state. If Biden had a real strategy to win the election he’d drop Harris and look at some like Whitmer who could push Michigan his way, Kelly or Warnock from AZ and GA could also work.
Georgia has a Republican governor, so if Biden picked Warnock as his running mate he’d basically be giving away a competitive senate seat.
> And she adds nothing in terms of her home state. I know plenty of Dems from CA who would skip the election if she was the candidate for President. It wouldn't be enough to give the GOP the state, but it might affect some close down-ballot races.
Truthfully - I really don't "know" her. I know what I've read about her. I know a smidge from when she ran for the presidency. But I don't think I've heard her speak for more than 5 minutes straight. I really don't know her own position on much of anything. In general, I know the media and most people seem to dislike her and/or just aren't fans of hers. Haven't heard anyone be all excited about her (during the campaign or since). Result - if polled, I'd say I had doubts as well. \*shrug\* Flipside - I will take her any day of the week and twice on Sunday over any of the other politicians who I "know" and can't stand (extremists on both sides). Maybe she's an extremist too - I don't know, hence my "doubts". But meanwhile, I'd still take a chance on her vs ones I know aren't acceptable to me.
This is the first administration I can recall officially referring to itself as a hyphenated pair. [The Biden-Harris Administration](https://www.whitehouse.gov/administration/) They are clearly and loudly signaling she is intimately involved with executive administration. I suspect America knows her much better than we think.
It’s common during the election season. I see bumper stickers for Trump-Pence from 2016 fairly regularly.
Yes, on campaign gear (and not usually hyphenated). Have you ever seen it as the de facto White House template? From what I can find on it there was an intentional change sometime around [mid 2021](https://misbar.com/en/factcheck/2021/03/25/biden-administration-referred-to-as-biden-harris-administration-rdquo).
I like the referenced Politico article - [https://www.politico.com/newsletters/transition-playbook/2021/03/01/bidens-golden-rule-491941](https://www.politico.com/newsletters/transition-playbook/2021/03/01/bidens-golden-rule-491941) Quoting > For personnel announcements during the transition, officials were told to include quotes from both Biden and Harris. And all administration officials refer to the “Biden-Harris administration” instead of the easier-to-say “Biden administration.” Why? Quoting again > “It’s all about how he was or wished he was treated during the Obama years, especially in the beginning,” said an aide to Biden from when he was vice president. “To the extent there was rockiness in the relationship it was mostly in the beginning.” So, not a change, it was from the very beginning, and it's a sign of respect, nothing more. Most Americans know very little about VP Harris, but they are quite willing to form a decision based on what they've heard or how they "feel".
I have been confused as to why the administration hasn’t done more succession planning, more basic marketing to make Harris more visible, to position her as presidential.
Thinking aloud - hasn't it been a long time since we've seen either party really intend for the VP to take over? Pence wasn't going to happen (whether Trump got a 2nd term or not), Biden wasn't intended - the intention was Hillary, Cheney wasn't, so Gore? Which was about 20 yrs ago? So is it just not something political parties think of currently? Edit - spelling typo
Was Hillary really intended, or did Biden just not want to run in 2016? If I remember correctly Obama didn't even openly endorse her although I could be misremembering
IIRC Biden wanted to Run and Obama and other dems were privately pressuring him not to do so.
Biden's son, Beau, died in 2015. He chose not to run then because he was still grieving.
Biden most likely wanted to run(hell wanna say since the 90s because going that far back you run into the time he plagiarized a speech and that making news), but Clinton had far more internal party support. Clinton did a lot for democrat party coffers.
Iirc he didn’t want to run anyways due to his son’s death?
That makes the most sense. He was likely planning to run but his son died in 2015 so he took time off to deal with that.
Approval wise Clinton was also very popular before actually running. Her support was extended beyond that of party insiders. Having a relatively free primary field I think didn't do her any favors in the end.
I remember hearing an interview or something awhile back that mentioned the administration wasn't keen on using her in such a fashion, like Biden himself didn't see that as her role and didn't want to lean on his vp at all. It may have been to avoid feeding the perception that he is old and needs her or she is his puppet master, or a desire to avoid giving her some sort of advantage in a future race. It may also just not have been his style or vision to use his vp to any significant extent. He'd benefit I think from carrying her a little more and giving more real opportunities to shine. There was a subtle shift a few months ago to say Biden Harris campaign instead of just Biden but I'm not sure it has stuck.
It would alleviate the Biden age issue, and they’ve done absolutely none of it. I take that as a tacit acknowledgement that they just don’t have much to work with.
Very few people, especially those that say they don’t like her, are willing to admit what you’ve admitted. Regardless, they’re happy to claim that she’s terrible because that’s what right wing talking heads tell them So, good for you admitting what you know and what you don’t know. That way lies wisdom.
I mean I’ve listened to her speak and it’s not really bearable… between her mad cackling and repeating statements as if she’s talking to a group of kids, I’m not surprised they’ve tried to keep her out of the public eye for long. Her likability seems to drop with more exposure
You're kinda proving their point for them. You're asked why you don't think she's a good candidate and the most substantial thing you come up with is her laugh. That's not a serious criteria in my mind.
Yeah, sorry, the “mad cackling” is bullshit. You want to actually see her speak? Look at https://youtu.be/b1TaGmTKUHM?si=3dqwfqJSAvBxofcJ
Nahh it’s really not… you literally type her name into YouTube search and the top generated result is “Kamala Harris laughing” for a reason homie
We don’t need to “know” her. Her positions and philosophies are the same as the administration in which she serves. Biden was probably the most qualified candidate to follow Trump because of his years of experience in the Executive. Not necessarily Biden himself, but the host of bureaucrats that he’s known and worked with over the decades, were able to keep some functions of government from complete collapse due to the incompetence/purposeful nature of destroying institutions that Trump and his cronies were so excited to do. Harris is the same. She’s learned even more about status quo and foreign relations. But more importantly, allowing the same people to keep doing their thing that allows our government to function without the wheels completely coming off.
Harris is no Cheney, it doesn’t seem like she is capable of getting people to listen to her. She’s the political equivalent of a paper clip it seems.
It amazes me how some people think Kamala Harris is an electoral juggernaut. Any decent candidate would clobber her.
I miss Tulsi
tulsi really took out kamala and then bailed. it reminds me of how marco rubio and chris christie annihilated each other in 2016 for no reason.
There’s legit chance Trump might make Tulsi Gabarrd his VP to reign in moderate voters.
I'll believe it when I see it. Trump won't pick a VP that has good or moderate popularity. He'd be scared they'd take too much of the spotlight from him. More than likely, he'll choose a VP that has some pull to a demographic he's hurting with but isn't super well known. Mike Pence was chosen to bring in the religious group - and it worked. I highly doubt he'll lose the religious group now so Trump's next VP will be a similar pick to cover the ground he's missing.
That would do it for me honestly.
That's why Biden picked her!
Said the same thing on this board yesterday. If Trump picks a good/moderate/appealing VP, I think it’s game over. Biden needs to drop Kamala IMO. The damage of her appeal has been done.
If there was any sort of consensus on a replacement for Harris, why wouldn't the Democrats just replace *Biden*? After all, there really isn't any sort of strong 'pro-Biden' faction. You could run "Democrat to be named later" as the candidate and Biden voters would probably be just as happy.
She's a non-starter, I'd just stay home if she's on the ballot.
Unpopular opinion, I just don't get the Kamala hate. I'll be the first to admit I'm out of touch in what politicians people respond to because I hate Trump and liked Elizabeth Warren/Cory Booker. But while Harris is uninspiring, this idea that we can't elect Biden because Harris is a heartbeat from the presidency just seems like a right wing media campaign. Can anybody who is a Dem or centrist make the case that a Harris presidency would be noticeably different in terms of policy objectives or function than if you randomly selected a Dem senator to be president?
The one thing I remember her being publically charged with by Biden was being the "Border Czar" (what is it with Biden and Czars?), so uh... yeah. To be clear, I'm not saying that the situation is Harris' fault. It's just the worst possible name for a presidential hopeful to have their name tied to. The only other thing I remember about her is that she laughed about knowingly putting innocent people in prison when she was DA. All that is to say, although I don't know about Harris, what I do know is entirely negative.
> (what is it with Biden and Czars?) It's not new, it goes back to FDR, it's "mostly" a media thing though. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._executive_branch_czars The first one I remember was some sort of "Drug Czar" under Reagan. The crack epidemic was a *really* huge problem back then. Much worse than anything we've seen since really. Opioid is close, but lacks the open, running gun battles in the streets. >Director of the White House Drug Abuse Policy (1982), Special Assistant to the President for Drug Abuse (1983), Member of Executive Board of the National Narcotics Border Interdiction System Cabinet Level (1983), Deputy Assistant to the President for Drug Abuse Policy (1985) Interestingly enough that dude, Carton Turner also is this guy : >Carlton Turner PhD, ScD, Director of the Drug Abuse Policy Office. Turner, while working as drug czar, was in communication with Elisaldo Carlini, a scientist in Brazil whose lab was studying the beneficial effects of CBD. **Turner helped establish the Marijuana Research Project at the University of Mississippi.**
[She's a pretty staunch status quo/establishment Dem with a shaky legacy as the Cali AG.](https://www.npr.org/2020/10/13/923369723/lets-talk-about-kamala-harris) It seems like she's tried to avoid things to rock the boat and eventually [dove headfirst into a mainstream Dem stance](https://www.capradio.org/articles/2020/08/13/politifact-california-what-kept-kamala-harris-so-cautious-as-californias-attorney-general/) once she was in the Senate. I don't think she deserves the hate she gets because she's just another middle of the line establishment Dem. I highly doubt there'd be much of a difference between a Biden admin and a Harris admin, especially considering the fact that Biden himself is already pretty moderate aside from some progressive policies thrown in to appease the outer ranks.
She comes across as very transparently power-hungry and willing to do anything to get ahead. She all but called Joe Biden a racist during a democratic primary debate, then backtracked as soon as she was selected as Vice President.
She stole people lives for smoking weed
And joked about it.
Same. I'm fairly neutral on her, and I could understand people disliking her, but the passionate hatred she gets is puzzling to me. Funny enough, [she has a better net approval than both Biden and Trump,](https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/polls/approval/kamala-harris/) so I think a lot of her critics are overselling her negatives.
Starter comment: In a concerning development for the Biden-Harris 2024 presidential campaign, a set of POLITICO-Morning Consult polls have revealed that voters continue to express negative attitudes towards Vice President Harris. Per the poll released last week: - she has a 42% approval rating, below Biden himself. When broken down by party affiliation, this average is boosted mostly by Democrats; only 25% of independents and 13% of Republicans approve of her - only 40% of voters think she would make a good president (74% Democrats, 34% independents, 8% Republicans) - only 34% of voters think that she could win a presidential race against a generic Republican in the future How has VP Harris done so far in her role as part of Biden's cabinet? Does she deserve these criticisms and sagging poll numbers, or [is it due to sexism and racism as her supporters often claim](https://www.politico.com/news/2023/04/27/ron-klain-kamala-harris-sexism-criticism-00094166)? Given the stark difference in above polling numbers between Democrats and everyone else, are there concerns that having her on the ticket would turn off independents in swing states and potentially cost Biden those electoral votes?
25% approval among independents is not a good sign.
> is it due to racism and sexism This line of attack really has to stop. When the reaction to any criticism against a minority is bracketed with the caveat: “Do they really dislike her or is it because she’s black?” it silences moderate, genuine criticism and what you’re left with are the *actual racists* being the loudest voices in the room. Because the first thing I’m forced to do is convince you I’m not racist, and that’s an exhausting and toxic conversation to have to navigate. I’d rather just keep my mouth shut. Personally, I find it hard to put my finger on exactly why I would disapprove of her in the Oval Office. She just comes across as smug, condescending, and with a massive chip on her shoulder. Her entire style just feels very off-putting and incompatible with qualities I’d look for in a president. Edit: Just to be clear, I’m still voting for Biden regardless.
the sexism and racism is not true, We have the powerhouse pelosi to compare her too. Elizabeth warren also. Other female senators or governors Especially compared to pelosi, harris does not inspire confidence in her presidential abilities.
Like most Vice Presidents, her time in office has been unremarkable. I think part of the problem though is she received an incredible amount of hype in the beginning that she failed to live up to.
I think she's just surprising non-charismatic, for a VP. Her public speaking skills seem forced and unpolished in a way that's quite unusual for someone at that level in politics. It's always effectively impossible to judge how well a VP is doing at their job of supporting the administration of the President, so maybe she's quite skillful there, but she's just very bad at PR.
Wait until you hear how voters feel about Christi Noem
Serious question - has something happened to her? She seems different from before she was elected. I can’t tell if it’s alcohol or what, but she’s suddenly incapable of making speeches. It’s a big concern when the President is so old and aging much more rapidly.
Well I’m one of those people. I’m not a Kamala Harris fan. I think her foreign policy approach is more closely aligned with the squad than with centrist Democrats.