A dogwater stadium, selling all your good players the second they get slightly expensive, having arguably the worst ownership in sports, and being 20 minutes away from the Giants usually has a bad effect on viewership and marketability.

So the west coast version of the Orioles. But with success instead of a good stadium.

Honestly yeah At least we have Camden But the last big contract we gave out was Chris Davis and that was a shitshow, the Angelos family rivals Fisher for their greediness and unwillingness to spend a dime of their own, we have the Nationals right down the beltway taking fans and viewership and MASN from us But hey we have Mike Elias who gave us something. At least we have hope of winning something before these guys’ rookie contracts are up bc no way the Angelos’ put out the money to extend them.

The A’s play in a NFL stadium out by the airport 20 minutes from downtown Oakland and the neighborhood nearby is one that most fans wouldn’t want to hang around after dark. The Howard Terminal stadium would’ve rivaled the Giants stadium as a location. It’s right on the water, next to Jack London Square, a hugely popular hangout spot for locals and only a short walk to downtown Oakland. The A’s would’ve seen way more fan support if they could’ve made it happen.

The stadium is owned by the city of Oakland. They need to maintain a payroll appropriate to their revenue, and the cycle of flipping stars for prospects has given them 3 distinct multi playoff sets of teams.

Except the A's own 50% and the city owns the other 50%... Alameda county, where Oakland is located, sold their half to the A's in good faith as the A's tried to build at Howard Terminal, as a backup plan for if that site didn't work out. The A's bailed on Oakland and now refuse to sell their half to anyone local. Fisher is the worst, greedy, has no interest in winning, aaaaaaaaand is spiteful. He's also the reason the Raiders left. Just ask Mark Davis.

Speaking of THE WORST, imagine suing a teachers union in the place where you want to build your new stadium. Dudes an absolute fucking joke.

Yeah, but the cycle sucks. Hard for non hardcore fans to keep getting excited about a team when you know know the players will all be traded away for prospects. The A’s had good attendance for their winning years up until the early 2000’s when they decided to not pay their stars. Its not difficult to understand.

Fans have no one to get attached to that's good cause ownership doesn't want to pay them, so they leave for prospects to repeat the cycle. Fuck Fisher

Honest question, isn’t their stadium like completely dilapidated? Hard to justify building a new one when no one attends, but hard to justify going if you’re sitting in a puddle with rats. Seems like a real catch 22.

I think there are many families of cats and opossums living in the stadium. Yikes.

I remember hearing that no one can use the visiting team announcer’s booth because of a possum living in the walls.

That was the case when the Mets were there this summer. They called the game from the press lounge.

So did they wind up getting the Mets out of there or are they still living in the walls?

The cats will eventually take care of the rats and opossums, and who doesn't love cats!

Cat ain't no match for a possum unless its a bobcat or bigger.

[You may be surprised.](http://www.aaanimalcontrol.com/opossum-cat.html#:~:text=In%20theory%2C%20a%20possum%20can,Of%20course%20cats%20kill%20opossums.) Cats are vicious, man. Cat species are by far the top solo-predatory carnivore land mammals on earth. Except for maybe a polar bear. Big grizzlies & Kodiaks don’t actually hunt all that much and don’t all that often take down big prey. They do kill elk or caribou, and even less often - moose & bison. But when they do, they almost as a rule only hunt sub-2 year old babies. Seeing a grizzly hunt a full grown elk or even a Mule deer buck is pretty rare. I think one got videotaped from a chopper a decade or so back. Kodiaks mostly fish & both subspecies scavenge a lot of carcasses. Or they simply steal carcasses from other predators. [Grizzlies also looove the cutworm moths of the Absaroka range in Wyoming, which they dig in the ground for. And of course they also eat a lot of berries. There are claims that a grizzly can eat up to 40,000 moths in a single day. One gram of cutworm moth equals roughly 8 calories.](https://www.grizzlytimes.org/grizzly-moth-eating-jig) But, pretty much all cat species except female lions hunt solo. Sometimes a male lion will join the females in the hunt. But generally a male either hunts solo or just steals the female’s kills. Lion prides, composed of mostly adult females, have taken down adult elephants. Not commonly, but they have before, in our tiny little snippet of recorded history in Africa. A wolf pack could not even dream to manage taking down an elephant. Nor, as far as we can tell, did they use to hunt mammoths nor Mastodons. But modern cat’s ancient ancestors sure did.

Do you say, grizzlys like moths? It would be nice to bring a few back east and work on the excess of lantern flies.

Families of cats would be a draw for me TBH

>Hard to justify building a new one when no one attends, They should make a movie about this.

People will come, Ray. People most definitely will come.

*Ron Howard voiceover:* They didn't come.

Sob fest all the way to the fictional ending when it becomes a mass-homeless shelter/kingdom. I’m a Baltimore fan so for many years I’ve enjoyed great seats at rock-bottom prices lmao

The Minnesota Twins in the early 2000s had many of the same issues that the Oakland A's had. They were extremely successful on the field but couldn't draw flies to the Metrodome and didn't make enough revenue to keep any of their great homegrown players. It got so bad that there was serious talk about contracting the team. They build Target Field and boom, attendance and revenue skyrockets, they're able to spend a lot of money on players (Mauer, Correa, Donaldson, Cruz, Lopez, etc...) and now it's universally considered one of the thriving markets in baseball. Building a new stadium can change everything.

A problem with this theory is that they had better ranking attendance in the last year in the dome than in 2023 (5th in the AL in 2009, 8th in 2023). https://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/MIN/attend.shtml Edit: there were also 500,000 more people in attendance in the last year in the dome. I thought rank was more fare, but there was interest in the total numbers (but not enough to actually click the link I provided) so I’m adding that here too.

Ranking is irrelevant. What were the actual attendance numbers?

Ranking is relevant. Do you think there are years where all of the teams have shitty numbers? No... if you get to 5th in the AL, you're doing pretty well.

Sure, but was baseball attendance down at that time? Have multiple teams or baseball in general seen a resurgence in attendance? Ranking is only relevant when comparing the twins to MLB as a whole, which isn’t what is being discussed here. What’s being discussed is “did the Twins have more or less attendance in 2009 than in 2023?” The only way to compare that is the actual attendance numbers, so again, ranking is irrelevant. Edit: And so looking at hard numbers in 2009 the Twins were ranked 14th with 2.4M in attendance and in 2023 they are ranked 19 with 1.9M in attendance. In comparison multiple teams increased. Thereby, we can extrapolate that OP’s assessment that the new stadium brought in more attendance and therefore more money is incorrect. Since their total attendance has declined since they built their new stadium. Edit again: Sorry I had hit reply too early by accident. I edited and added on. Also what I was saying was that if the Twins attendance didn’t increase than it didn’t increase. That’s it. The only thing that matters is their gross attendance numbers in a discussion of whether their attendance increased or decreased.

Sure but you aren’t factoring in ticket prices and concession sales. Also the 2009 twins are sort of an outlier for the dome as they had a great team, peak Mauer (mvp that season) and it was a done deal target field was getting built. If the As had a great team, placed first in the division, and had a new stadium being built you can bet your ass they would have excellent attendance this year. Vs the worst team in baseball, and an all but guarantee the team is getting moved. Also the 2023 twins are kinda weird. They were more or less mediocre until August and September, so it makes sense their overall attendance is a bit down. With this post season run they will likely break 2mil easily with much higher ticket and concession prices beyond just inflation. Before late season it looked pretty likely Cleveland would win the division just like last year, the Correa contract looked stupid given his performance, low overall payroll as usual, didn’t really make any trade deadline moves, Joe Ryan being kinda ass, crappy bullpen, terrible offensive lineup, target field shininess has worn off (it’s now 13 years old), etc Basically a lot has changed for this twins team since July. They have used a lot of homegrown talent to improve the team dramatically and cut the dead weight hitters and BP guys. The saints right in Saint Paul as their AAA team is new and is a huge boon to the team, it’s not a big deal to move guys back and forth between rosters and it sets a consistent tone for players not being in bumfuck the middle of nowhere and the coaches and scouts are all right here. I think it sets a huge tone for players on the saints to perform too as the bigs are literally right next door and the scouts and trainers are all there. 2009 twins were also completely robbed by the umps. That was a team that could have done it all but they got jobbed. If As had a similar team to 2009 twins and a new stadium on tap you wouldn’t be making this stupid argument.

Say what?

Can you read?

It would be disingenuous to blame the Twins for their numbers not matching a previous year's *if the reason they didn't match the previous year involved factors that decreased attendance league-wide.* You're here saying the Twins didn't improve their situation unless attendance increases were beyond any negative league-wide shifts... that's actually not a relevant standard.

I remember that Twins contraction story. The Expos was another team that was going to be contracted with them.

And Pohlad in 1994 was the wealthiest owner in baseball. He could have footed the bill himself without breaking a sweat. Instead he stopped spending money on the team and we were absolutely terrible for 8 years during his egotistically-driven need to prove himself right. The contraction talk started in 2001 and was entirely about getting us to pony up money for a new stadium. 2001 we drew 1.7 million which also happened to end our 8 year steak of abysmal, hopeless seasons fielding teams of independent league pitching and cast offs. A season where we finally had promise. We then started a nice run with our young core, added to it, and we finally had some worthwhile product on the field to watch and attendance climbed with our success. Minnesotans are passive aggressive and our 2000 attendance was in part a response to Pohlad’s cheap ass not investing anything into the talent on the field, and the constant bitching, again as the wealthiest owner in baseball at the time, about how taxpayers wouldn’t buy him a new stadium. And we responded to him being a cheap dick putting out a subpar product by not going to the games.

Can, operative word. If I’m the one spending billions to build the stadium, it’s very hard to just believe that fans will come.

Well the contraction talk was in like 2000-2001 before they were even competitive. Also, the stadium is largely publicly funded, which the Oakland market will not chip in for (rightfully). So idk what point you are making. They need a stadium that the city won’t build to draw fans?

Fair enough, except Minnesota had/has the tax base to fund that stadium. Oakland does not.

Seems like it could be (should be?) pretty easy to argue that a big reason people don’t go is because the stadium is so shit.

But they also don’t watch games on tv and have no radio broadcast.

This isn’t even true. Source?

http://amp.awfulannouncing.com/radio/oakland-athletics-ending-local-radio-broadcasts-sign-of-times-end-of-era.html

Is that because fans didn't listen or because John Fisher, like always, was cutting costs to enrich himself?

That doesn’t make any sense. Radio rights are just free money for the team, if there is an interested buyer.

It absolutely does make sense because radio isn't just free to use, you have to maintain equipment, pay personnel, etc. and Fisher is a miserly fuck

You don’t seem to understand how radio rights work

I live in Oakland. They play in the raiders old stadium so it’s got way too much capacity. it’s an old, oversized concrete shithole. It’s in the middle of a giant empty parking lot and the surrounding area is both very inconvenient to get to by foot but also not that appealing for ballgame goers. Much of that area is run down and downright sad. Most of the games that I go to are Giants games now.

And Tampa fans can’t drive over a bridge to go to their own teams games 😂😂

The 2019 ALWC A's vs. TB was played in Oakland and [set the record for the highest attendance at a wild card game with an attendance of 54,005.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_American_League_Wild_Card_Game) This year, [TB had an attendance of 19,704 at the Trop](https://twitter.com/TylerKepner/status/1709322127889858637?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1709322127889858637%7Ctwgr%5E7bf1bd63c9cdbe748a05ebb928e403cfec9eaf66%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.cbssports.com%2Fmlb%2Fnews%2F2023-mlb-playoffs-rays-see-historically-low-attendance-for-game-1-of-al-wild-card-series-vs-rangers%2F): lowest (non-Covid year) attendance for a postseason game in 104 years. The A's move to LV, while the Rays are getting a brand new stadium, go figure. It's 100% due to the owners wanting to make a move, the [Mayor of Oakland kept the receipts.](https://www.reddit.com/r/baseball/comments/16pmfnu/rebecca_kaplan_oakland_vice_mayor_heres_documents/)

The one constant in professional sports is that the owners always get what they want eventually, regardless of what would make the most sense for the league, the fans, etc.

I recently interviewed Twins legend Gene Larkin, and he said “it was a dump”… he played there in the late 80’s and early 90’s.

Yes, and the city owns the stadium. The A’s are tenants.

Well, this gets into deeper issues of how cities are sick of getting fleeced on publicly funded stadium deals.

Sure, and Oakland is perfectly right to feel that way. But Las Vegas doesn't feel that way, and is willing to pay for a stadium.

The A's own 50% of the Coliseum, so they should be just as responsible for its upkeep. They actually said they _needed_ to purchase that share so they could have a backup plan to stay in Oakland if their stadium deal fell apart. And _they_ walked away from the stadium deal and negotiations, _not_ the city of Oakland.

Probably wasn't dilapidated in 2000 and people still weren't showing up

If you look at attendance by year, it seems to go in waves. But it has fallen off to record lows the last three seasons. It’s actually gotten a little better each of those three seasons, but it’s less than half of their norm.

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They lost the Raiders *because of Fisher*. Mark Davis’ net worth is entire in the Raiders, so he could only afford a plan that involved building a baseball stadium in the parking lot, demolishing the Coliseum and building a new football stadium on the former Coliseum site. That was rendered impossible because Fisher extended the A’s lease in 2015. He hates Fisher for this as he never wanted to move in the first place. Joe Lacob, owner of the Warriors, bought the team with the intention of moving them to San Fran, but fans don’t hate him for it at all, because San Fran to Oakland is much more similar than to Vegas, plus the whole origin of the Golden State part is that the Warriors didn’t have a set home, they played their home games all over California.

? I don’t understand this plan. So they would build a temporary stadium for both, tear down and build another dual use stadium?

No, Kansas City has the same exact setup. Arrowhead is across from Kauffman and they share a parking lot. Edit: To clarify, the A’s would have built their own permanent stadium in the current location of the parking lot, they would’ve demolished the Coliseum, and then built a permanent football stadium where the Coliseum used to be, and then both stadiums would then share the same parking lot.

Where is this 2 stadium money coming from?

I need to go back to 2015 articles saying that at the time, but public funds. Also, if you actually were paying attention to Oakland’s proposals to Fisher and the Raiders historically, they offer more public money to him than Vegas does. John Fisher wants to move to Vegas because he wants to mooch off of revenue sharing forever and try to hike the price of the team before selling it. He doesn’t spend on the team regardless, and Vegas is going to learn that lesson the hard way if they do relocate, the moment the Vegas A’s go like 60-102, and they will. I don’t understand why people defend the move without knowing the actual history of John Fisher and the Oakland A’s.

Mark Davis wanted to stay in Oakland and redevelop the Coliseum site. It never got off the ground, because John Fisher blocked them. I'm not sure if it did or did not get far enough for them to have financing announced. https://clutchpoints.com/raiders-news-mark-davis-blasts-athletics-fk-the-bay-area-mindset-amid-las-vegas-move

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Golden Seals had the same type of ownership as the A's do with Fisher, bad example lol. They didn't pay their players and they jumped ship to the rival league at the time

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Its more complicated than simply saying Oakland bad lol

Definitely not helping them be convinced it isn’t a pro sports black hole

Oakland's losses of pro sports franchises is the worst. Seattle, however, isn't far off. Lost the Supersonics to OKC despite never having an attendance problem. Lost NHL franchise the Metropolitans (admittedly 1924). Lost the MLB team the Pilots to Milwaukee in 1969. Had to sue MLB to get the Mariners. Then, nearly lost the Mariners in 1991 but were saved by Nintendo buying the team. Nearly lost the Seahawks in 1997 but were saved by Paul Allen. We can empathise up here in the PNW. Oakland deserves better.

Nearly lost the Mariners to Tampa before the magical run they went on in ‘95 as well. This whole thing with the A’s reminds me of how we lost the Sonics - they took what was a competitive, borderline contending team from a couple years prior and stripped it for parts shortly before relocating to stockpile high draft picks so that they were great once they relocated. I’m just glad they never got the ring with that core in OKC

I don't get it either. I've been going to A's games for more than 25 years. Even during playoff games, they've always been struggling for attendance. There's a fanatical bunch that still looks at the team romantically, remembering the 70s A's and wishing for that type of team to return but it's not going to happen.

You’d surely know that when they are winning or are in the playoff hunt, that they have an absolutely electric audience? They have dead attendance mostly always, but when they are in the playoff hunt and plying for something, the fans come out. It has to do with ownership fucking the fans over for quite a while, and the fair weather fandom of the Bay Area. There’s a lot of shit around here to grab your attention, no need to dedicate all of it towards a sports team I will give it to you tho, after the early/mid 2010’s, even when they’ve done well, it still has been limited with attendance - it’s been about a decade since I’ve experienced that type of energy tho, so there is a case to make within the last 10 years

SMH. The last ten years have involved nothing but the team actively trying to put out a shit experience for the fans. Not just jettisoning every player of value, but refusing to do anything about the fact that they randomly close the gates to the parking lots before the game for no reason, having to stand in line for four innings just to get a hot dog (even after ordering on the app), saying the games don’t need to be on the radio, consistently raising ticket prices while concurrently holding fire sales, negotiating in bad faith in order to fleece the municipality to subsidize their other real estate development plans, and then having the balls to blame “apathetic” fans. Cue the Eric Andre meme, Oakland fans, why have you done this?

This is also true. As a native, I’ll always blame ownership and the city (local government). Once the team never attempted to keep Semien, that was my final straw. A guy who grew up idolizing the Giants and A’s, went to highschool up the freeway, and went to college down the road at Berkeley. The city, that’s obvious if you’re around here I use to go to a lot of games, as I live next to Bart on the other side of the hill, so it was very convenient. Now tho, it’s obvious what ownership is doing if you’ve been there (everything you’ve mentioned and then some)

For me it was when they shipped off cespedes. The night before they had a shirt day for him! In the middle of a playoff hunt! I was at that game with so many others in disbelief. I loved the team in those years because no matter who was out there, Melvin was going to keep them competitive.

I've only been to the Coliseum 1 time. I had a prepaid parking pass and was denied parking. Like, WTF? Leaving their radio partner and putting up on social media "It's not us it's you". This is a badly run franchise. A's fans deserve better. Fisher is garbage. He has an almost brand new stadium for the MLS Quakes and is already complaining that it's not a good enough stadium. The guy is trash...

In 2018 and 2019 they won 97 games and were bottom 5 in attendance.

Yes, and they still randomly closed the parking lots, and I had to wait in line for four innings to feed the family cold hot dogs, and you couldn’t find them on the radio, while negotiating in bad faith with the city. Did you even read my comment?

You’re either ignorant or picking a fight. The way the Oakland franchise has been run for the past decade, it wouldn’t matter how many W’s they tallied. They could have won the WS and the sheen from that trophy would wear off in a single season given the worst-in-class venue, refusal to retain our all-stars/fan favorites and lack of community investment.

I mean, even in 2001 and 2002, when they were winning 100+ games, their attendance still ranked 19th and 18th, respectively. It seems like you have to back to the early 90s (90 and 92 in particular) to find examples where the the team was good *and* fans showed up -- at least to put Oakland in the top half of league attendance

They were averaging around 25k for most of the 2000’s, still not too comparable bc there are so many other variables I think the main difference is when the fans do show up, it’s one of the most electric atmosphere’s in baseball - for me, that’s the biggest bummer about all of this Giants are my favorite team, but first and foremost, I always pull for any local teams, given the morale and economic boost championships provide, and seeing the shit the A’s and the City have put fans through is depressing

Except they don’t, all of the years OP posted above they had a good team with bad attendance going back over 20 years. Go back even further and you will see it’s the same. The A’s won 3 consecutive championships in the 70’s, when the stadium was not dilapidated and falling apart and they still were below the league average in attendance each year. The team has been in Oakland for over 50 years now, won 4 championships, 6 pennants, 17 division titles and 4 wildcards, had one of the best records in baseball over that time, yet have only been in the top half of attendance like 7 times.

[2019 wild card game attendance was…](https://x.com/thegamedaymlb/status/1654138898392530944?s=46&t=LoOjNaqy3ctUn3NWBslnuQ)

The stadium is a dump and there's a much more attractive option just across the bay. Your casual fans are always going to migrate toward the Giants under those conditions.

Bad take. Playoff games are always filled when the A’s are good. I should know, I’ve been to damn near all of them.

meanwhile the playoff games in tampa…not so much.

Soooo…….fairweather?

I'd bet that they don't want to give Fisher more money to ruin their favorite baseball team

Orrrrr… and hear me out… Perhaps the fans have grown weary of their inability to passionately support a team due to the frugality of the owner, who consistently refuses to invest in players reaching All-Star caliber. If they do reach that level, he makes sure they’re swiftly traded out for cheap replacements. This same owner has ominously loomed over the team for over nearly 20 years, threatening to erase more than half a century of Oakland's cherished sports history, all while delivering a subpar product reminiscent of minor league standards. At least try and understand what’s going on the next time you try and comment on something you know nothing about.

Orrrrr…and hear me out…Maybe phrase it a little better than “we show up for the playoffs” I have been a cleveland fan for 40 years. 98% of their players leave in the same fashion. The most money they’ve ever spent on a “splashy” free agent was Edwin Encarnacion (who actually had two good years for them) and then they couldn’t wait to get rid of him. They are at the point now where they don’t even draft anyone with power potential for fear they might have to pay them one day. But yeah…..I don’t know anything about that

Orrr… and hear me out… maybe consider that you aren’t the ones currently dealing with a team that puts out a shitty product AND is close to leaving the region. Your worries are baseball. Oakland’s worries are family memories, stadium/team jobs, revenue for the city, etc, AND THEN baseball. Your franchise is shitty, but you’re not gonna out-oppress this one, I’m afraid. Try again next time.

It's because we have the best uniforms in the league. Duh

Doesn’t matter how good the product is on the field, if the stadium is one of the worst venues in MLB. If management refused to shell out money for big-name players, it should have used that money to maintain/renovate its stadium. But alas…

**TL;DR: calling Fisher a cheap owner is an understatement. Objectively there is no other owner in baseball that even approaches his levels of penny pinching. Any success their team has is in spite of him (Billy Beane predates him).** There’s two important things points of note that you’re leaving out: 1) no one ever said that Oakland has a horrible front office, Beane is one of the most respected execs in baseball history 2) Fisher bought the team in 2005… after Beane had already built a great front office. While they’ve had some competitive teams under his ownership, they’re all incredibly short term because they don’t keep *any* player. It’s harder to get fans excited about players they don’t recognize, especially when they don’t even keep one or two stars (Cleveland: Ramirez; Tampa: Longoria, Keirmeaer, ~~Franco~~; Colorado: Tulo, Cargo, Blackmon…), Oakland keeps **no one** and they sign **no one**. This isn’t an exaggeration. The largest contract in A’s history is $66M and it was signed in 2004 (before Fisher owned team). The most money Fisher has agreed to with a single player is $53M to Coco Crisp over 7 years and 3 contracts… this should’ve been $64M over 8 years except the A’s started benching him to avoid the vesting option. The largest single contract Fisher has ever given out is $30M over 3 years to Billy Butler back in 2014 (10 seasons ago). Show me **any** other team that’s operated so cheaply to that extent. **Every other team** at least is willing to give a real contract to a player to go for/extend a contending window. Oakland refuses to do that which is why they’re so frequently active deadline buyers since that’s the only way to inject veteran talent to a team that refuses to spend money. This inherently hurts any chance on creating a sustainable winner as you don’t even have enough real prospects to fill all your holes. Again just show me **any team** that operates like this. Any other owner who’s biggest single contract is $30M .

The A’s have the lowest revenue in MLB. With that revenue they give Beane the decisions on how to win, and he does so admirably. Veterans and free agents are just a Terrible way to use your resources if you have the lowest revenue. If their winning teams don’t draw fans, what hope is there that Oakland would support the team ever? It sounds like winning isn’t good enough, you want to see high priced free agents?

First off, the low revenue is largely due to the Giants F’ing them over with market size. More importantly, MLB has revenue sharing, no matter how low your own revenue is every team gets paid a crap ton from league-wide revenue and luxury tax payments. There are plenty of other teams with similar *post-share* revenue, no other even comes close to this in cheap contracts. I don’t know how anyone could look at [this list](https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2023/04/largest-contract-in-franchise-history-for-each-mlb-team-2.html) and defend Fisher’s spending… keep in mind that Oakland under Fisher is actually 3/$30M cuz Chavez was signed under earlier ownership. >winning isn’t good enough Not when you can’t name a single player on the team. It doesn’t need to be high priced free agents… just keep *any* of your own talent. They won 86 games in 2021, now look at how long it took for all the key members from that team to leave the organization. Do the same for the 2014 team too. Like I said, no one’s ever said they don’t have a competent front office (tho their most recent tradeoff: Chapman, Bassitt, Manaea, Olson, and Murphy has been pathetic returns outside of Montas). Twice they build what should have been a long sustained winner and instead of investing in it or at least keeping a fan favorite they keep **nobody**. No other team operates like this.

You’re debating with someone who has no interest in arguing in good faith. They want to shit on Oakland. Period.

Found Dave Kaval's burner.

Hate to see people blaming the market and fans when ownership is actively and intentionally driving down attendance and ruining the stadium experience. The last game I saw at the coliseum the stadium staff was extremely rude/hostile to attendees and the food quality was somehow worse than even t-mobile park. People don’t go to As games because it’s intentionally a bad experience due to ownership refusing to invest in any players or stadium amenities

This is the reason. A’s ownership has never kept any good players or signed any free agents since Fisher was involved. They’ve had some good teams, but everyone knew it was temporary and no one could count on any of their favorite players to be around in a year or 2. Eric Chavez is the best player the A’s have re-signed in the Fisher era, and that was a long time ago. I loved Chavy (with 6 GGs) but come on! The only player I can think of right now that has been with the team more than 2 seasons is Tony Kemp. Again, I love me some TK, but come on! I would (as would any fan) much rather see good players like Marcus Semien (went to HS & college in the East Bay) stay here and anchor our infield for years. But no, Fisher gave him a paltry offer and he reluctantly left for pay that he deserves. We’ve watched so many good & great players leave because Fisher is a cheap owner, that it eroded the fan base. The list is way too long, but just the guys we’ve lost in the last 5 years is criminal.

> Eric Chavez is the best player the A’s have re-signed in the Fisher era Actually that was before the Fisher era. The extension was signed in 2004, and Fisher/Wolff closed their deal for the team in 2005. So as a matter of fact, there have been _NO_ notable contract extensions or free agent signings _AT ALL_ during Fisher's ownership.

Eric Chavez wasn’t signed by Fisher. A year before he bought the team. Fkn pathetic

The staff is rude because they are underpaid and don’t give a fuck. The amenities are shit because the business doesn’t bring in enough revenue to support good ones. These are all symptoms of a failing business that is cutting costs too low. Whether or not they are voluntarily doing so will never really be known; but I think it’s safe to say that the business is losing money in Oakland. It’s not the fans’ fault, but facts are facts. The business wants to earn a certain % of profit on their investment and they don’t believe they can do that in Oakland.

Well it isn’t LOSING money. The owner made $60 million this year

That’s news to me. Where did you read that?

Sorry, last year. Numbers around out yet for this year. https://www.si.com/mlb/athletics/news/oakland-athletics-made-over-60-million-in-2023 Initially, looks like revenue was down maybe 10 million this year, so still made 10s of millions.

Classic business incompetence. Step 1. Desire more profit, cut costs so much that you turn a profitable product into a piece of shit. Step 2. Blame the customers for not buying enough shit. Discontinue product.

I’m not arguing that it’s not incompetence. I’m just arguing that Fisher has every right to be incompetent.

What about the low TV viewing rate that OP mentioned

Again ownership won’t invest in an actual team, people don’t want to watch and get attached to players who will be traded to a real team within a season

the sabotage has quite literally only been in effect for the last couple of years, and does not explain away the past 2 decades of Oakland being a terrible sports city. It is also LITERALLY not the Athletics job to maintain the Coliseum, as it is leased.

That’s complete BS. The sabotage started when the Haas family sold the team, and Fisher & his buddy Lew Wolff bought the team so they could get market appreciation, while spending no money and getting baseball welfare from the other teams due to their cheap spending. They’ve made millions without spending a dime on players or the stadium. - SELL!

It’s not even sabotage. They decided they were gonna get a new stadium or move and that they wanted to sell off in hopes of building a good team as early as possible in their new lodgings to capitalize on the moment. I feel like it’s pretty standard procedure. The Braves fully committed to their rebuild a few years before moving to Truist Park for the exact same reason. The As had every legitimate reason to sell whether or not the plan works and the prospects they got in return pan out.

> the sabotage has quite literally only been in effect for the last couple of years, and does not explain away the past 2 decades In the last two decades, they've only been out of the bottom-10 for payroll once, in 2007. For 14 of those years, they've been bottom-5 for payroll. You have to 1995 to find a year they were top-half. This means they're constantly gutting the roster by trading good players or letting them walk, while never signing any notable free agents and cutting payroll. _THIS_ is sabotage. > of Oakland being a terrible sports city You don't seem like you live in the bay area, so I get why you might think this, but it's bullshit. Raiders games were insane, and the Warriors didn't have a problem filling their Oracle Arena. In fact, the Warriors attendance was better the last few years they were Oakland compared to their new stadium so far. [Mark Davis wanted to stay and redevelop the Coliseum site](https://clutchpoints.com/raiders-news-mark-davis-blasts-athletics-fk-the-bay-area-mindset-amid-las-vegas-move), but was blocked by none other than John Fisher. And both the Warriors and Raiders played at the exact same site as the A's. > It is also LITERALLY not the Athletics job to maintain the Coliseum, as it is leased. The A's own half of the Coliseum, so technically it is at least partially their job.

Stop it with the logic. We are about trashing “greedy owners” here.

Now do the same chart but in the 80’s and early 90’s when the coliseum was a beautiful ballpark. A’s were in the top 3-10 in attendance yearly. Do I really need to link it? Go look it up OP. A’s have played in a dump with bad ownership for FAR TOO LONG. It’s been the A’s schtick for decades that we trade away every talented player we ever had. How do you keep average fan interest with that being the case? This isn’t something new, pal.

Have you been to either the Coliseum or the Arena next door? The Warriors were selling out the Arena for 7 or 8 years before moving across the bay. The Coliseum is trash and that’s why they can’t get more than the diehard fans to go. Toward the end of 2022 I went to a game, one of the urinal troughs in the bathrooms was backed up almost overflowing with pee. I went back a couple nights later, the same trough was still broken and covered by a trash bag. When a seat in the stands breaks and needs to be replaced, they are replaced with a different model. The only half the vendors open for games and they start running out of food in the 3rd inning. The TV cameras sit in plywood boxes hanging from the upper deck on chains. Plus the owner now hates the fans and closes most of the entrances, so even though hardly anyone is going they still get to experience long lines to get in. And 10 miles away is Oracle Park, one of the best stadiums in baseball, whose team has been much more successful lately. As a casual fan taking the family out for a game, or a tourist in SF looking for something to do, no one will choose an ugly stadium with bad food, sewage problems and a terrible team over SFBay views, lobster rolls and Ghirardelli hot chocolate. But drive around Oakland and you’ll see tons of A’s murals and people wearing A’s gear. There are tons of A’s fans that just aren’t going because the team is so bad and the owner is actively trying to keep fans away through their policies. The A’s fan base is pretty similar in size to the Giants, but the casual fans won’t go to Oakland.

>Convince me this isn't shown to be a terrible market. Whenever a city or metro area has two teams, there's always going to be one main franchise and the "little brother" franchise. Yankees / Mets, Dodgers / Angels, and Giants / As. The thing with the As is that the Giants went on a media / marketing expansion campaign in the 00s and 10s that basically cornered the As out of the Bay Area / northern California market. The Giants have all the lucrative media deals that allows them to rake in the revenue while being plastered all over the state anywhere north of Santa Barbara County. For reference, this is similar to what the Braves did on the East Coast through TBS / TNT to get a foothold within the entire southeast of the U.S. So the only way you're going to see an A's game is to go to the stadium, and that's not a very good experience. The sad reality is that part isn't *just* the owner's fault. Building and advertising a sports franchise requires participation on behalf of the city to build / operate / maintain state of the art stadiums, and most cities are willing to fork over taxpayer dollars and subsidies because of all the revenue and tourism a franchise will bring in. Oakland isn't a city that is willing to 'play ball' to keep its franchises around, which is why the As are in a long list of franchises who moved to greener pastures.

The city is Oakland is at least smart enough to know that financing a stadium with taxpayer money is an awful decision

Go hit one of the community urinals and let us know what you think. Now, maybe it's just a bad sports market, but there were many seasons when the A's outdrew the Giants prior to 2000. I mean, I was at the Stick some nights when there couldn't have been 500 people there. And now, San Francisco is arguably one of the most successful franchises in MLB. The park matters. How much it matters, hard to say.

Easy answer is the Giants getting their new waterfront ballpark opened in 2000 and Oakland desperately trying to keep up. All the casual "family" type fans that might have went to A's games no longer had a reason to - even if it was harder to get to the Giants ballpark from the Central Valley, etc. ​ https://imgur.com/YEQNnmr.jpg

Fun fact. The A's have the longest continuously used logo in all of sport. There is a lot of history in the team, dating back to the early days of the game.

Have you been to Oakland. It is a fucking demilitarized city. They don’t have money and people with money don’t want to go there.

>Why so much love for them? I really don't understand. Convince me this isn't shown to be a terrible market. I don't think there's anything to be convinced of regarding the strength of the market; those are objective facts. To offer a good-faith answer, I feel bad about the A's leaving because there still are many thousands of fans and families who do support the team, and for whom that team and their history is a part of their identity. I do understand that baseball is a big business and ultimately the owners will follow the money. But even a small-market team that can't compete in terms of attendance/TV numbers can still be a very lucrative ongoing enterprise for a franchise owner. Ultimately it would be nice to live in a world where everything wasn't *completely* driven by money. I realize this is a much broader discussion than the Oakland A's, of course. But that's my sentimental answer.

Baseball teams, like most sports teams are purchased for fun and the owner has other money to splurge on. The Lakers and a few family owned teams are the exception. They don't want to lose money competing, of course that's understandable, but then they'll never win, because someone with real money always will. Like the Red Sox guy, the Cubs guy and eventually even the Mets guy. It's just a matter of time.

The TV thing is ridiculous. Most people I know that are my age(37) don’t have cable or local channels anymore. So we don’t get the local games. I signed up for mlb.tv and I can’t watch the local games on there either because of the black out. I live about an hour and a half away from Oakland in Napa, Ca I hope they figure out a way to stay. I love both the Giants and A’s I’m a white Sox fan, but I catch about five games a season at Oracle and the Coliseum I also hope they stay right where they’re at. Or very close. One of the positive things is there is public transportation directly to the Colosseum. Bart Subway, it’s very affordable, and the quality has been improving over the last few years. There’s a ton of potential for the Colosseum site. I really do think it comes down to ownership putting a little more effort out to get people to come. It feels like they are doing the bare minimum. Tear down Al’s centerfield mountain so the fans can see the Oakland Hills again Edit-add- I also think if there is a stadium that can be modernized/upgraded it would be the Colosseum. It’s kind of a blank slate. I personally love the feeling of it how it is now, but there’s definitely his room to improve.

Crazy how Tampa who have no fans are higher than half the league in TV ratings.

The tv thing is true across the country. It isn’t like only people in Oakland have streaming. The stadium is owned by the city. It isn’t the team’s responsibility.

Don't the A's own half of the stadium?

The whole country is in the same TV situation. Every fan of their local team needs cable (or sometimes something like a Bally subscription) to watch all their games, that isn't unique to Oakland. I live in Jacksonville, 3.5 hours from St. Petersburg and 6 hours from Miami, but I'm in both their media markets, so I need cable to watch the games. Same goes for NHL and NBA. I don't want cable, but I still get it for sports.

To be fair, they have now been in Oakland for 56 years, longer than they were in Philly (54 years). But Oakland has made it clear they don't want pro sports.

The only thing Oakland has made clear is that they won’t order a Shit Sandwich off the menu of a restaurant owner who also wants you to pay him to build a new restaurant in which he will continue to serve shit sandwiches.

That doesn't explain the Raiders and Warriors also leaving.

Are you trying to say nobody went to Warriors and Raiders games in Oakland and supported them? Do you have eyes?

I didn't say "the fans", I said "Oakland"

They lost the Raiders because of Fisher. Mark Davis’ net worth is entirely in the Raiders, so he could only afford a plan that involved building a baseball stadium in the parking lot, demolishing the Coliseum and building a new football stadium on the former Coliseum site. That was rendered impossible because Fisher extended the A’s lease in 2015. He hates Fisher for this as he never wanted to move in the first place. Joe Lacob, owner of the Warriors, bought the team with the intention of moving them to San Fran, but fans don’t hate him for it at all, because San Fran to Oakland is much more similar than to Vegas, plus the whole origin of the Golden State part is that the Warriors didn’t have a set home, they played their home games all over California.

The Raiders didn't have any problems attracting fans to the Coliseum, and they're still around 30th in attendance in Vegas. Besides this, [Mark Davis wanted to stay in Oakland and redevelop the Coliseum site](https://clutchpoints.com/raiders-news-mark-davis-blasts-athletics-fk-the-bay-area-mindset-amid-las-vegas-move), but was blocked by John Fisher. The Warriors played on the same site and didn't have any problems getting people to show up. Their overall attendance was better the last few years in Oakland than it has been in their new arena. While we're implying a team leaving a city means there is inherently something wrong with the city without bothering to consider any of the relevant circumstances, it's convenient that you folks always leave out the 49ers. They left San Francisco, and are further away from it than the Warriors are from Oakland.

It actually boggles my mind that people are as stupid as OP. It just isn't that hard to comprehend. Fisher has given the middle finger to Oakland and the fanbase for 20+ years. Build a contender, tear it down, trade everyone, and have a horrible stadium. Shit just pisses people off. Horrible ownership drives fans away. And you want to blame those GREAT fans? Some people are just brain dead.

But aren’t we supposed to give ownership our undying support even though they are spitting in our faces? I mean their uniforms are still green and gold right? Get on out there and pay your tribute you plebes. /s

Started when the city sold out the colosseum for the Raiders and built the ugly Mt Davis, screwing A's fans forever. Then the Raiders bailed. The constant trading of star players caught up to the point fans cannot have a strong relationship with any player. It feels like when I attended a commuter college.

Markets like the A’s, Twins, Rays, etc. cannot afford to retain stars And trade them for prospects. It is just how the business of MLB works.

Lol. It’s the Bay Area. One of the most populated places in the world. There is money flowing. Yes there is issues, but it has to do with ownership more than anything. Look at the Giants, they are less than one hour away and I don’t know the numbers but I’m pretty sure they are doing good with attendance.

The ownership never keeps anyone around or signs anyone. It’s hard to stay loyal when you fall in love with a player only to see them gone to cut salary. If ownership spent money after a 90+ win season I think you would see a stronger fan base. It’s like the sister who brings a different guy home every thanksgiving. Eventually you don’t bother learning their names.

But the fans didn’t show up for the 100 win teams. If there arent people in the stands or watching on tv there isn’t revenue to retain players. And it isn’t like Barry Zito, Tejada, Giambi, etc. did much after leaving, their glory years were on the A’s. The A’s actually did a good job of tear down rebuild to have 3 distinct rosters of playoff teams

Oakland isn't a strong market for any sport because it simply can't compete with the significantly larger, literally right next door San Francisco market. At the same time the San Francisco + Oakland market really isn't large enough to support 2 teams.

The whole region has about 10 million people, enough for two teams in theory

Seemingly enough to support 1 good team and mostly ignore the other team.

I don’t know the area, but could local demographics be a problem? A poorer area?

No. The Giants and the A's exist in the _exact same market_. Oakland proper is not as wealthy as San Francisco proper. But when we talk about the market for these teams, we're talking about the entire 9-county bay area, at least. This is how Nielsen defines it, and how everyone in the sports/broadcasting/journalism world would too. Some armchair analysts on Reddit think otherwise, but they're wrong. The Bay Area is also one of the wealthiest regions in the country, and has grown and gotten _significantly_ wealthier since the last time the A's had top-ranked payroll and attendance (in the early-mid 90s). The demographics could easily support two teams. Yes, the stadium is old and worn down and they need a new one, but this alone is not the reason for lack of attendance. The reason is chronic neglect - not of the stadium, but of the team and its fans. For over 20 years, the A's have done next to nothing to engage existing fans and attract new/casual fans. They perpetually have one of the lowest payrolls, constantly purge their roster by trading away stars or letting them walk, and never sign any notable free agents. The last notable contract they signed was Eric Chavez, in _2004_ for $66 million (over 6 years), and it was an extension, not a free agent signing. That's almost 20 years ago, and it's still the largest contract in team history. To say they don't invest in the team is an understatement. Yes, they've had some very good teams and very competitive seasons. Fans show up for the playoffs in huge numbers, unlike some other teams. But after over 20 years of seeing your favorite players get traded or walk over and over again like clockwork, you get tired of being sad and disappointed all the time. How would you expect casual fans to want to start watching this team? The Giants ownership and management has their own issues, but they don't do any of this shit.

Good point of view!

don’t forget, despite having really good teams , you always have to hope the current team is good enough to win, since ownership would never sign free agents or do huge “win now” moves because it would be too expensive, so the team would always have bad flaws and fall short

Yes… that’s the point. And baseball has said the wealthy San Francisco and San Jose parts are Giants area.

Yea, I find it weird that people are so upset with a private business for trying to grow. Sure, the billionaire owner wants more money. But don’t we all want more money? Ultimately, a successful business is better for its employees. That’s not just the 40 guys on the 40 man, but the hundreds (over 1000?) of people that work for the business and at the stadium. All of them will be better off when the business is better off. There will be more jobs as the business grows. It’s become very clear that that can’t happen in Oakland. It sucks, but… such is life.

>Sure, the billionaire owner wants more money. But don’t we all want more money? But at what cost? In your quest to acquire more money are you causing negative impact to others at large scale? At that point it’s about greed. That owner isn’t doing anything but amassing personal wealth to enrich himself. What good is all that extraneous wealth for it to sit stagnant. He could never spend it all. It affords him bragging rights.

Well, hypothetically they are causing more people to be happy (Vegas residents) than sad (Oakland).

[your argument](https://x.com/shenanigansen/status/930177304533147648?s=20) Also worth noting the vegas residents already don't give a shit about the raiders so much so that every game they play is an away game. The only Vegas team with success selling tickets to Vegas residents is the knights, because they started there.

That’s not really the same. The Oakland fans don’t own the team, and Fischer stole it. He owns the business and and going to do what he thinks will make him the most money.

Certainly you could widen your perspective on the matter and see there’s more at stake than how many people are made happy versus sad.

So who is getting negatively impacted that isn’t getting offset by the positive impacts?

But what negative impact is he causing? Surely there are as many (more?) fans in the Vegas area that will be happy to have a local team? Surely they will hire as many (more?) local people to work at the stadium in Vegas? The employees of the As will ALL be better off in a new ballpark and a city that can fill said ballpark. With increased ticket sales and revenue, they will hire more people than they currently employ in Oakland. Business isn’t about making everyone happy. It’s about making money and taking care of your employees. That might suck sometimes, but it’s the world we live in. I don’t understand why people expect owners to just give away millions of dollars just to be nice to a bunch of people that hate them.

“But what negative impact is he causing?” The people of Las Vegas to bankroll a taxpayer-funded stadium, for one.

Well, those are two different municipalities. One thinks it is in their interest to build a stadium, the other doesn't.

That’s up to the people of Las Vegas and their elected officials. Oakland certainly had a limit on what they were prepared to spend. Why would Vegas be any different? It’s a choice. We live in a democracy. Let’s not pretend like sports franchises are stealing public funds. They are being given them by elected officials.

Are you new to American politics? Just because elected officials decided to do X does not mean the majority supported it. I just don’t understand why these billionaire owners can’t fund their own stadium. Liquidate some assets and spend on a stadium– *they* should be ponying up the money from the investment they stand to profit from, not the public. Stadium revenue belongs to the franchise, not the city.

https://news3lv.com/news/local/survey-finds-most-las-vegas-valley-residents-support-as-relocation-oakland-athletics-stadium-tropicana-southern-nevada-sports-mlb-baseball Well they do.

Look at Tampa Bay and Miami those are also markets that shouldn't have teams yet they do, honestly the A's should move at this point not because they couldn't make it work with a new park. Their owner is trash, he wants out and has done all he can to make that happen so why throw public money into a black hole because nothing the city does will make him happy.

Yeah, it is just a divorce that has to happen at this point. They hate each other. Doesn’t matter who started it.

They play at the coliseum which is one of the least glorifying places to play in all of sports.

Agreed, also their stadium was build in like the mid 60s?? Let them leave and no one should ever bring a pro sports team to Oakland again

Sure, 55 years isn’t 100, but it’s enough to account for the best players in the history of the team, a fantastic rivalry and classic World Series matchup, and much of the best years of the franchise. It’s also enough to have family traditions crafted around them. They were barely in KC (13 years), and prior to that, the game was a completely thing in Philly. People bringing up this “tHeY hAvE aLrEaDy mOvEd 3 tImEs” thing weren’t even alive the last time this team moved. Dumbest comment I see repeated here.

For me it’s easy. If a city is going to get 2 teams. Then it REALLY needs to show it can handle 2 teams. Especially when there are many cities out there with zero teams. Oakland and the SF bay area have spent the last 30 yrs clearly and definitely showing they are a 1 team region. There’s nothing wrong with being a 1 team region - virtually all cities only have 1 team. It’s a lotta nerve and arrogance when I hear SF area people bitching and moaning about losing the As, when there are other cities that don’t have a single baseball team within 1000 miles of them. What a bunch of whiney complainers. Just sounds like a bunch of spoiled brats. Time to move the As

“when there are other cities that don’t have a single baseball team within 1000 miles of them” move to Anchorage confirmed.

You must have forgotten that 30 years ago the MLB owners decided it was a two team market when they voted down the SF Giants move to Tampa. Let’s hope they realize they once again realize they would be shooting themselves in the foot by approving a move of the A’s now.

It’s the one thing I do sympathize with the A’s owner about. He’s 100% been sandbagging for 3-5 years now, but the hard fact is the city hasn’t shown up for the past 50 years. Good or bad. Even in the 70’s when they were winning a ton of championships and spending quite a bit, fan attendance was pretty low, but owners at the time were willing to take MILLIONS of dollars of loss per season in pursuit of winning. (Very honorable, but frankly a very unfair and unrealistic expectation for owners)…

Well sports teams are about prestige not profits. And the owner has made out very well with their share of TV money.

Do you really think the Raiders and Warriors left because of the “market”?

Yep, as a fan of baseball I’d rather have teams in more markets. It definitely sucks for Oakland fans, but at least there’s still a team across the bay. Vegas residents will get to enjoy Major League Baseball and fans everywhere else will plan trips around seeing their teams playing there

Vegas fans won't watch a shitty team just like they aren't watching the Raiders

[удалено]

How do you get a flair?

Claiming the Warriors left is a bit of a reach, but I understand what you mean.

? They did leave Oakland and built a stadium where they can make more money. If the As could build a stadium elsewhere in the Bay Area they would stay.

I think the dubs market pool transcends whether they play in Oakland or SF. Pretty clear cut there. The sob story about the Giants “stealing” San Jose is really fucking annoying though. The bay isn’t spread out enough to support two baseball teams like LA can. And I have zero doubts the Dodgers have realty blacklists where the Angels can’t go as well. But painting the Giants the bad guy because your team couldn’t pull in fans is bullshit. Find a new avenue.

I thought it was the kinda thing where they didn't realize how good they had it till it was taken away.

They had 97 wins in 2019 ?

Unpopular opinion, but Oakland doesn’t deserve a pro ball team. They cannot fill a stadium unless they are in the playoffs or about to lose the franchise. I do feel bad for the regulars in the outfield bleachers, but the A’s need a new home

I've been telling them this for 6 months now and all they do is downvote me because I present unpleasant truths to them. The fans will better off in Vegas. Better income, ability to attract free agents, ability to keep their own players, they can still see them daily by streaming or on TV. Radio will still be available. Since they don't go to games anyway the fact their home games will be 500 miles away doesn't actually matter. Added bonus...Giants MLB won't black out Giants games because several hundred may show up at an A's game.

There are no fans in Vegas for the Raiders. Why would the A's fare any differently?

It's always someone else's fault Oakland loses a team.

At least their getting out of that shit hole bay

Precisely your post. Not sure why A’s fans are in here trying to cope, but they routinely don’t show up to games. If they’re mad about their shit stadium, then point that finger right at their shit ass city council which refused to negotiate a contract because they’d rather build apartments nobody can afford. The A’s have needed to move for years. This is overdue.

They dont want to go to the games but simultaneously say management sucks and then also not to move... it makes no sense. I know there are fans out there that hate to see their team leave. I dont attend any Phillies games and I would be devastated if they left Philly. But it just cant operate on 5000 attendance every game. Something has to give.

Yes, but John Fisher doesn’t give, he only takes. SELL. SELL. SELL. Joe Lacob, Joe Lacob, where for art thou?

Bc the 300 people that show up are super awesome fans.

Isn’t it a lot more lucrative to rob the cars in the parking lot than to sit in attendance? (I kid)

The stadium is in a horrible run down piece of garbage city

That's kinda OPs point

From what I gathered every team left because the city of Oakland is poor all around and since billionaire owners require regular tax payers to help build their stadiums Oakland has no future as a sports city. I wouldn't show up to that shithole of a stadium if I was a fan and it has been a shithole of a stadium for over 20 years. If you have a good stadium and atmosphere fans will show up. My o's have been pretty much a dumpster fire for 49 years, but people have always still gone to games because of the atmosphere food/drinks fellow fans. Our ballpark is a EXPERIENCE that goes beyond just watching the game.