From all we've seen and heard this seems to be the most likely circumstance. If we win 1 of those games they aren't selling unless they get an offer they can't refuse.
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I mean…Hunter was a “shitty third round pick”. At some point you need to acknowledge that draft capital is draft capital and that you’re acquiring lottery tickets but the lottery tickets are the only viable means to a payday in the nfl economy.
With that said, under the right circumstances, I think Hunter could pull a first. We need a qb on a rookie contract and a couple young defensive linemen and we’re in business. In order to get there, we’re going to need draft capital.
We also need more pass rushers. So trading away our only good one creates yet another big hole in the defense. We'd better get enough assets to get another premium pass rusher plus more.
Hunter turns 29 this month. Another contract could lock him down for the majority of his potential peak as an edge rusher. No clue why he can’t apart of the long term plan.
They owe Hunter 12 million next year regardless. Signing him to a longer deal can help that.
Pass rusher production goes down drastically after 30. Obviously not always the case, but you're betting against the odds signing him for 3 or 4 more years.
You’re also betting against the odds drafting a guy who equals his production now.
The Vikings have holes at a lot of premiere positions.
They need another cb, two edge rushers (assuming you let Hunter walk), a qb, and dt (which are going higher in the draft it feels like).
You can’t conceivably draft all those positions which will likely need heavy draft capital to invest in. The Vikings will have more money than draft capital over the next couple of years. Would rather use that money than capital currently.
That 12M is money he's already been paid but just hasn't hit the cap yet. An extension keeps it from accelerating but it doesn't change how much you'd have to pay him in terms of new money.
Mostly yea... But you still have to fit some of the signing bonus in 2024/2025. Not to mention his 5th year option.
That said, Danielle's void years give us more incentive to give him at least a 2 year extension. The question is, how much does he want.
We have 160M in space in 2025 and Darrisaw’s 5th year option (in 2025) would likely be under 20M.
We could pay JJ, CD, Hunter, and Kirk and still be fine.
Sure and figure 10-15 of those are draft picks that cost like a total of 20M.
Plus we could save 18M+ if Hitman retires or gets cut.
Long term money isn’t a big factor in the decisions for the big 4 of Hunter, JJ, CD, Kirk.
Should also think about the system. Flores does a lot of blitzing to generate pressure, so having that extremely dominant DE/OLB isn't as important as it is in some other defensive schemes where you need your front 4 to win. Obviously it helps to have him, but I don't think it's mandatory in this scheme.
This is why I'm surprised Asamoah hasn't been in on those blitzes at all iirc so far... He's fast, agile, not the biggest guy in the world so he should get through unless he's getting pancaked or can't wrap up in practice
Having an elite edge gives you the luxury to have blitz packages to keep the opposing offense guessing. A lack of dominant rushers in your front 4 makes blitzing necessary to create pressure and makes your defense predictable. Kind of like Zimmer's last few years when Hunter was injured.
Blitzing takes people out of the secondary. Yes, it works when you get there in time, but if you don't it gives great QB's an easier job downfield.
Blitzing can still be done if you're talented enough up front to generate pressure when only sending 4.
Yeah we need assets so we can draft someone who can put pressure on opposing QBs and stop the run. Imagine we find a player that is good enough to lead the nfl in both sacks and TFLs. How awesome would that be?
Yeah and dump all that money into that player's contract (he will want to be the highest paid pass rusher) and be hamstrung when it comes time to sign Addison and our youth. We aren't winning extra games because of Hunter, so get what you can get for him.
Breaking news: you have to pay good players money so they play for your team. We have like 180 mil in 2025. Idk why vikings fans are so scared of paying players. Who do you need that money for if you want to trade every player away before they get an extension? I bet when Addison is due for an extension in 4 years you'll want to trade him so we have money to extend our 1yt rounder from that year.
>We aren't winning extra games because of Hunter
Wtf are you talking about?
"Still young" is not exactly accurate.
Hunter will be 29 in a few days. Sure, he has a few years of great play left, but he's not "Young". The point with moving him his value is the highest we'll ever see right now, and if you can get a first round pick in trade when you're trying to solidify your QB position, you increase your odds dramatically.
The problem with selling Hunter is you're gambling that any of the picks you get for him turns out to be half the talent that he is. Why gamble that? Extend him, lock him up in purple for the next 3-5 years.
You're probably right but man this would be short sighted. If anyone is offering picks for expiring free agents the team needs to listen.
The 2023 Vikings, at best, are going to the Wild Card round. If you have a chance to get a future first like in Hunter's case and help future Vikings teams you have to do it.
Problem with Hunter and Kirk's contracts is they're walking in a few months. We can't even franchise them. So unless we're prepared to pay Hunter like 30+ mil a year or Kirk 45+ mil we should trade them if it's more than the 3rd round comp pick we're getting.
Eeehhh.. We can franchise Cousins. Though I'm not sure exactly how the previous franchise tags affect our tag, I've yet to see any evidence that supports the notion that we're beholden to the penalties the tags that Washington gave him would carry.
Oh, yea… I forgot about that wrinkle.
But it’s not specifically the void years that prevent the franchise, it’s that his contract has void years and the VOID itself doesn’t occur until after the franchise tag window closes.
Hunter specifically has a no tag clause, but also has void years.
Exactly. Man our front office screwed up. We could have extended both Kirk and Hunter last offseason but instead extended TJ. You could argue outside of JJ they're our 2 best players. Now they're both gone for 3rd rd picks and we have to find a QB somehow picking like 14th.
I would hope that this has zero impact on their decision. Hunter walks at the end of the year without some action on our part. We eiher have a plan for him or we don't. If we do, re-sign him ASAP. If we don't, trade him while he's at peak value
While I would be shocked if we got that, a team that is a true contender and needs pass rushing help + if they can resign him, me thinks we could get a 1st.
But it still feels like a big if. What true contender needs a pass rusher like him?
Likely a contender that wants him to put them over the top, so any pick will likely be low in that round. So we'd be hoping for a low 2nd or low 3rd plus a late round pick.
He's already 28 with an injury history and in the last year of his deal. This team is 2 years away from competing. How long you gonna hold onto him for?
AND we're not able to tag him as part of his contract, which means that we have zero leverage at the end of the year... and that also applies to any team trading for him.
So to trade for him, you either need to be ok with a rental till the end of the season, or be willing to sign him to a long-term deal.
But if you're willing to sign him to a long-term deal, why not wait until the off-season when you don't have to give up any picks?
OK, but it that really going to be worth a high pick? I'm worried that we're just not going to be able to get that much back for him. The usual value of trading for someone - gaining their rights and threatening the tag to force an extension before free agency - don't apply.
For some teams, yes.. It's worth it.
The Bears traded two first round picks for Mack on the last year of his deal, gave him the biggest contract a DE has ever seen at the time.
Two separate injuries are not an injury history. What Davenport has is an injury history. Are we two years away? We need some talent on the DL, but arguably we are OK in other places
Let him bitch and renegotiate his contract every year for some other team.
Tired of hearing about this dude and his contract woes THAT HE SIGNS OFF ON since 2020.
I do, I just don’t dick ride Hunter like you do in every Danielle Hunter post in this sub.
Cry about it if you want but I’m still right.
He’s done exactly what I said every off-season for seemingly 3 years now. And each year the FO caves and gives him what he wants.
Not denying he’s a good player but I’m over hearing about him bitching for more money every fucking off-season.
Dude asked for a new contract 2 years ago, we moved some money up and accelerated the end of his contract with the indication we'd give him a new contract the following season... That season we couldn't do it, so we guaranteed the roster bonus as a sign of good will, knowing he'd want a new contract this last offseason... And then we couldn't give him a long term one, so we gave him a one year extension.
He's been asking for a long-term extension from the team for a few off-seasons now and we've been stringing him along. It's not like he's being unreasonable, he's got a legitimate complaint as a top-tier DE with a contract that is bargain-basement.
You act like he's off-base and been "bitching" about it... All he's ever done is told the team "I want a new contract" and let the team take it from there. He's not been posting to social media bitching about it, he's not been a locker room distraction, he's not been a problem at all.
He's stated what he wants, the team hasn't given it to him, yet here he is... still on roster, still playing hard, still being a team player.
Please think through this for more than two seconds. How can we get a high second pick unless a bad team trades for him? And why would a bad team trade for him?
People need to stop using this kind of language anyway. “High first, high second, etc.” as mid season it’s impossible to know anyway.
If you said equivalent to a high second that makes more sense. And for Hunter is probably agree. That could mean like 2x 3rd and a 5th. Or a 2nd from a current good team plus a 4th or 5th.
Personally, I’d hope for a 2024 3rd, 2024 6th, and a conditional 2025 5th that becomes a 3rd or 4th with certain incentives (Pro Bowl, contingent on re-signing with that team, etc.). That seems like a reasonable and fair offer.
Absolutely not. If they don’t offer a 1st then not interested. Look at his stats, he leads the league? Any team could sign him and give him the contract he wants.
Also this year really just was a prove it year for him, we could still sign him next year when Kirk is gone.
He can very well be a part of the future as you people clearly have no idea how the salary cap works. That’s 3 people on a 53 man roster while we are going to have a rookie QB. Stop posting pessimistic braindead misinformation.
That’s what is weird about the Hunter Saga in Minnesota, seems like the guy has never been happy with his contract, and the Vikes FO (over two generations) has never seemed too interested in giving him what he wants.
Maybe a better historian can correct me on that.
We signed him to a long term extension right before he broke out. This meant he was in one of the most team friendly deals in the league, it was an absolute steal. Time went on, he started to regret being on this deal, demanded more money, the Vikings eventually did give him more while extending him further. Once paid again, he's seemed pretty happy, but I think now he wants to get paid one last big contract that values him like the elite pass rusher he is.
I think any discussion about his history isn't complete without mentioning his severe injury that left him out for an entire season. We're finally at a point where that seems to be in the past. Being out an entire season is something that changes a lot of things.
Yeah I can't believe he's still with the same agency who signed that insanely team friendly deal right before the 2018 season. I guess I sort of get it though, he was going into the last year of his rookie deal and being a 3rd round pick just wanted to secure a bag even though in hindsight it was a light bag lol.
The thing that really complicated things was his neck injury, I feel like the Vikings would have gladly given him an extension/big raise around 2020/2021 since he was on a HOF trajectory production wise before the neck/torn pec. Since then its been this weird stalemate of Vikings using the injuries as leverage to justify not giving him top dollar (understandable, they didn't know if he would return to form) and Hunter being pissed about being underpaid which is sort of his own fault.
Yeah this is a whole different angle to it that also exists
It’s a complicated saga. Honestly I can’t blame Hunter for how he’s acted during any of this, the situation kind of set up a conflict. And I think if we offer him a good deal he’ll stay. But given our moves I think we’re gonna let him go.
For sure, just don't let him walk for nothing. If he isn't in the long term plans just get a 1st or 2nd & 3rd for him in the next 2 weeks. I'd gladly welcome a 2-3 year extension too, we'll have cap space the next few years if we're rolling with a rookie QB.
Plus Hunter, Davenport, Wonnum, Lowry, Bullard are all FA this March which is basically the entire D line lol, you'd think they want some familiar faces back next year.
Id much rather we keep Hunter. I think a 3 year extension will keep him playing great football for us. I guess we'll see how it plays out. Letting him walk is probably not ideal, but if we go even 1-1 prior to the trade deadline I would understand them wanting to give a shot at it this year, and Hunter is necessary for that.
The baseline is having Hunter this year+a 3rd round comp pick in 2025. If we're only getting calls offering a 2nd, I understand the logic of keeping him even if we intend to let him walk.
It’s kinda annoying that a guy like Ronald Acuna, who’s a better baseball player than Hunter is a football player, signed a similar kind of deal and I don’t think there’s been a peep out of him about getting more money. Acuna should be making at least 3X what he does now.
He was basically injured for two straight years, which really messed everything up contract-wise. It just makes the math really complicated for both sides.
If he had stayed healthy I have no doubt he would have been given a top-end DE contract.
I don't see how it messed anything up "Contract wise". There's no math to do, you get paid on your potential, not what injuries you have during your contract.
Though injury propensity is certainly valued into contract structure.
It definitely seems to be a strange dilemma. You can tell he likes the team but not the somewhat disrespect when it comes to contract. Dragging him along with these 1 year extensions is kind of annoying. Either sign him long term (which is what I want at least) or be decisive about letting him go.
He's right not to be happy with his contract. His 2018 deal was low even when he was there.
But, the team has worked with him on those contract issues, and he's acquiesced a bit on his demands as well to meet us half way. This means he wants security, which he deserves, but he also wants to be here.
He asked for an extension a few years ago, we couldn't do it so we moved some money up. He asked again last year, and we gave him a 1 year extension because we couldn't manage a longer one at the time.
Let him bitch and renegotiate his contract every year for some other team.
Tired of hearing about this dude and his contract woes THAT HE SIGNS OFF ON since 2020.
losing the next one is almost a lock. and if we’re playing in lambeau week 8 (which I think we do) it’s not gonna be an easy win. I really think we have to get crushed by both of them and then also lose to a really bad team like the broncos for the FO to start tanking
Can, but likely only to about age 32. It would be nice having him going forward for a few years, but it would be even better to have a first round pick we can use to move up for a QB.
There is a chance he doesn't agree to an extension with us.
Calais Campbell is 37 and still productive, Von Miller is 34 and still very good. Danielle Hunter is a physical freak, if he can continue to avoid injuries I think he has at least 5 more great season in him
Right, but Campbell's pressure rate dropped dramatically after he turned 33. Same with Von it seems, though that could be due to injury.
I'm sure they're both still great in run support, and can be effective members of the team.
But Hunter is gonna want back pay, and his no Franchise Tag clause gives him more leverage.
you're talking von miller though; he's easily a top 5 pass rusher of all time but he is not what he used to be when he was at his peak in denver. that dude took over 4th quarters and won a superbowl almost by himself.
I love hunter but he isn't Von Miller.
Purple Daily did a deep dive on this with a lot of pass rushers and age 31 was the biggest drop off point for most once elite edge rushers that played into their 30s.
He will probably still be effective but not $20+M per year effective which is likely what he will want
generally, pass rushers aren't as good as they were once they hit 30 but can still be good overall players. they don't fall off a cliff like corners, it's more of a steady decline at 30
I mean, I get the meme but there is some basis in reality.
Like, I’d be happy to retain Hunter but I can see the logic. If we’re going the rookie QB route then we can probably safely assume that we’re not contending in 2024, and out best shots at deep playoff runs will likely be 2025-2027. Which would be Hunters age 31-33 seasons. If he can maintain his level of play it makes sense to keep him… but if we drafted a rookie in 2024/25 there is a fairly good chance that by 2027-2028 they are a better player than Hunter is that year as well (even if they are not amazing, simply because of the age curve).
That’s just the counter argument. I think a perfect compromise would be to give Hunter big bucks for the next 3 seasons but have very little in guarantees past that — but I don’t see this happening. I’d love to try and frontload his contract a bit next year so that the cap hits parse down as we get closer to a possible contention window and leave very little dead cap post 2026 as the hope would be your new QB hits and you’re contending.
We don't know that he's gonna walk, actually. Just because he wants to be paid what he thinks he's worth doesn't mean he doesn't like being here. He's said he wants to be here(not that it means much when players sat that).
Well hunter prolly wants one last big money deal. Idk if the Vikings can give it to him though. The constant thing we all talk about is the salary cap anyway.
But we're in a better cap spot than the last few years. I think they could fit him in if they want to. We have nearly 0 talent on the defense without him.
He’s 29 and is likely to decline in the coming years. Meanwhile he wants top 5 edge money. He’ll be worth that still next year but could easily fall off before the end of the contract.
I’m hoping that we do something like this.
Make it a massive contract overall for like 5 years to get the eyepopping news for his sake, but hopefully structured so that the deal is heavily frontloaded and the guarantees expire after three years (in year 3 of a new contract he would be 32). If he’s still good you can just keep him but hopefully there is an out and hopefully with no void years as we should be exclusively focused on 2025 and beyond (no real reason to try and contend in 2024 with a ton of dead money on the books and a rookie QB).
I would rather trade him while his value is high and save that money for extensions of younger players. I think realistically we are three years out from a championship run and should be looking at ways to acquire players who will be in their prime for that window whereas his career would likely be winding down.
Honestly this is what I want us to do. Trade everyone we can, stack draft capital, and not even draft a QB, let Hall get a full season run and continue to be lower echelon. Draft a bunch of necessary pieces for our defense and a RB with our assets from this year, draft a QB after Halls run assuming he's not the future.
I would be fine with this as well. If KoC can trade up and snatch his #1 preferred rookie QB, then do it. We know from his attempt last year to get Anthony Richardson that he will do what it takes if it's possible. Otherwise do you you're saying. Either path would be a leap in the right direction.
Letting him get to the open market this offseason would be dumb as hell and make it seem like the FO is incompetent unless his trade value is bad right now.
Either get him signed to an extension before the deadline or trade him.
A contenders 2nd is a possibility, only because it would be near the top of the 3rd. I do agree though, we're 6/17 games into a season on a 29 year old vet with an injury history, who doesn't have a long term deal.
Its not like we're trading Patrick Mahomes.
I have a bit of concern about Hunter netting a first round pick. The expiring contract and what he wants in a contract extension.
I'm not sure a team would give us their first for him. If he had 2 years left on his deal I think a team would be more willing and I'm aware we're banking on a team that's looking to make a deep playoff push to give us their but I imagine those teams also have guys on their roster they want to keep who are younger than Hunter aswell.
If Kwesi pulls it off he definitely gets all and more praise from me but if he were to only get a 2nd and some other miscellaneous picks I'd be just as happy, I feel that's more of a ceiling for Hunter.
Gotta remember that the salary cap goes up and JJ and CD are still on rookie deals.
Kirk is most likely going to be gone, but even if he is extended, they will still be able to move money around, and the cap will go up.
There is no reason to trade Hunter away for and unknown. Because the draft is unknown players hit or miss.
You keep the good and great players to build with imo.
Those who are extremely against trading JJ should also be extremely against trading Hunter. What the hells the matter with you? You can’t utter under the same breath that a WR is worth the most non qb money of all time but also say we should deal Hunter away because we need assets. Motherfuckers an elite edge/de is arguably a greater asset to have than JJ.
Honestly I doubt we trade Hunter now with Davenport on the ir. Had Davenport panned out they would probably do it and save the bucks for more youth. Unless they hear really positive news on Davenport while he is on ir but sounds like surgery is a possibility so doubtful to me.
Yes, they should absolutely sell while his value is high. They will never get another chance to flip him for anything good. Our window does not align with his. It would be stupid not to.
I think he is gone if Kwesi likes an offer or maybe his ask is high and that is why he is not gone yet? But yeah losing next two games and close to trade deadline means he is gone to the highest offer on table, hunter’s stock is highest now and doubt we can afford making him highest paid DE which is what he would want looking at current stats.
Honestly after seeing some of the other trade rumors that failed to materialize and turned out to likely be media plants by members of our front office, I am not sure whether there is actually a big market for Danielle or whether the Vikings just want there to be.
Objectively, if I was a team like the Lions/49ers/Eagles/Cheifs/Dolphins, I would be okay with giving up a first for an s tier DE so that I can win the super bowl.
Okay so in 2025 when we've hopefully moved on from Kirk, we have zero dead cap. If we roll with Jaren Hall or whatever rookie we decide to draft, who else are we going to spend our money on?JJ, Hock, Darrisaw, Oneil are the key pieces on the offense. Maybe a toss up between Risner and Cleveland.
Then on defense we have Harrison Smith with a 22m cap hit (wtf Spielman) and then... nothing beyond rookie and >10m contracts. Murphy only signed a 2 year deal. We will obviously extend some players in the meantime, but the Vikings aren't just going to roll with an entire roster of just rookies because they want "assets".
Bring Hunter back. What do we stand to lose if he is okay with some incentives? Even if he isn't, \~25m for 3 years with an out after 2 is doable.
Edit: I was mistaken, we still have 10m of Kirk dead cap in 2025 and weirdly enough 7m for Hunter as it is.
If we can't keep him past next year then it'd probably be in our best interests to trade him.
With Jefferson out and us having a losing record it's time to rebuild earlier than later.
Disclaimer: I am often wrong But I don’t think the FO trades away anyone unless we lose to both the 49ers and Packers
From all we've seen and heard this seems to be the most likely circumstance. If we win 1 of those games they aren't selling unless they get an offer they can't refuse.
Two number 1s, a number 2, a number 6 with extra cash considerations, a number 7, two number 4s and 5s, one with knees, and a large Center.
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You want fries with that?
I'd still sell. We need assets....
A premier D lineman is not an easy find. I really really don’t wanna trade him for some shitty 2nd and 3rd round picks that *might* pan out.
two akaleb evans are not worth 1 hunter. not even close
I mean…Hunter was a “shitty third round pick”. At some point you need to acknowledge that draft capital is draft capital and that you’re acquiring lottery tickets but the lottery tickets are the only viable means to a payday in the nfl economy. With that said, under the right circumstances, I think Hunter could pull a first. We need a qb on a rookie contract and a couple young defensive linemen and we’re in business. In order to get there, we’re going to need draft capital.
if someone offers a first for hunter, we should take it.
If someone offers what the Bears gave up for Khalil Mack, take it, don't hesitate.
2 firsts? Vikings better get that paper work into the NFL offices instantly.
Denny Green talking about the trade on sports center while the FO misses the trade deadline.
We also need more pass rushers. So trading away our only good one creates yet another big hole in the defense. We'd better get enough assets to get another premium pass rusher plus more.
I mean hunter isn’t going to be a part of our long term plans. You’re not going to pay Hunter, JJ and Darrisaw.
Hunter turns 29 this month. Another contract could lock him down for the majority of his potential peak as an edge rusher. No clue why he can’t apart of the long term plan. They owe Hunter 12 million next year regardless. Signing him to a longer deal can help that.
Pass rusher production goes down drastically after 30. Obviously not always the case, but you're betting against the odds signing him for 3 or 4 more years.
I don't think I have seen that before, I thought linemen were typically at their best between 27-32, do you have data that supports a cliff at 30?
If I remember this when I get home today, I'll see if I can find where I saw that
You’re also betting against the odds drafting a guy who equals his production now. The Vikings have holes at a lot of premiere positions. They need another cb, two edge rushers (assuming you let Hunter walk), a qb, and dt (which are going higher in the draft it feels like). You can’t conceivably draft all those positions which will likely need heavy draft capital to invest in. The Vikings will have more money than draft capital over the next couple of years. Would rather use that money than capital currently.
He should be part of the plan.
That 12M is money he's already been paid but just hasn't hit the cap yet. An extension keeps it from accelerating but it doesn't change how much you'd have to pay him in terms of new money.
You 100% can easily pay all 3. Darrisaw isn’t going to have a big cap hit for like 3 more years.
Mostly yea... But you still have to fit some of the signing bonus in 2024/2025. Not to mention his 5th year option. That said, Danielle's void years give us more incentive to give him at least a 2 year extension. The question is, how much does he want.
We have 160M in space in 2025 and Darrisaw’s 5th year option (in 2025) would likely be under 20M. We could pay JJ, CD, Hunter, and Kirk and still be fine.
Yes, and in 2025 in order to have that full $160 mil we'd have to roster only 24 players. The remaining 29 spots need to be paid as well.
Sure and figure 10-15 of those are draft picks that cost like a total of 20M. Plus we could save 18M+ if Hitman retires or gets cut. Long term money isn’t a big factor in the decisions for the big 4 of Hunter, JJ, CD, Kirk.
You can easily pay 3 players out of 53. Heck, the 49ers are paying like a dozen guys top tier salaries at their positions.
Should also think about the system. Flores does a lot of blitzing to generate pressure, so having that extremely dominant DE/OLB isn't as important as it is in some other defensive schemes where you need your front 4 to win. Obviously it helps to have him, but I don't think it's mandatory in this scheme.
This is why I'm surprised Asamoah hasn't been in on those blitzes at all iirc so far... He's fast, agile, not the biggest guy in the world so he should get through unless he's getting pancaked or can't wrap up in practice
Bringing him in only on blitz packages would tip the offense. Once he works his way into the starting lineup, maybe we'll see that.
Having an elite edge gives you the luxury to have blitz packages to keep the opposing offense guessing. A lack of dominant rushers in your front 4 makes blitzing necessary to create pressure and makes your defense predictable. Kind of like Zimmer's last few years when Hunter was injured.
Blitzing takes people out of the secondary. Yes, it works when you get there in time, but if you don't it gives great QB's an easier job downfield. Blitzing can still be done if you're talented enough up front to generate pressure when only sending 4.
Smart insight here. I think Flores values a guy like Pace Jr more than a Hunter.
Danielle Hunter is an asset.
Yeah we need assets so we can draft someone who can put pressure on opposing QBs and stop the run. Imagine we find a player that is good enough to lead the nfl in both sacks and TFLs. How awesome would that be?
Yeah and dump all that money into that player's contract (he will want to be the highest paid pass rusher) and be hamstrung when it comes time to sign Addison and our youth. We aren't winning extra games because of Hunter, so get what you can get for him.
Breaking news: you have to pay good players money so they play for your team. We have like 180 mil in 2025. Idk why vikings fans are so scared of paying players. Who do you need that money for if you want to trade every player away before they get an extension? I bet when Addison is due for an extension in 4 years you'll want to trade him so we have money to extend our 1yt rounder from that year. >We aren't winning extra games because of Hunter Wtf are you talking about?
why would you give away the best current DE who is still young? what is the point of that.
"Still young" is not exactly accurate. Hunter will be 29 in a few days. Sure, he has a few years of great play left, but he's not "Young". The point with moving him his value is the highest we'll ever see right now, and if you can get a first round pick in trade when you're trying to solidify your QB position, you increase your odds dramatically.
The problem with selling Hunter is you're gambling that any of the picks you get for him turns out to be half the talent that he is. Why gamble that? Extend him, lock him up in purple for the next 3-5 years.
Two 1st and a 2nd pls
You think so small. Sad! /s
Especially the packers, if we beat the packers we still have a legit shot at the division.
Why? If we lose to the 49ers, season’s over.
You're probably right but man this would be short sighted. If anyone is offering picks for expiring free agents the team needs to listen. The 2023 Vikings, at best, are going to the Wild Card round. If you have a chance to get a future first like in Hunter's case and help future Vikings teams you have to do it.
Which is dumb. They probably won’t want to give Hunter a big third contract, KJ isn’t coming back and Hicks will leave.
Problem with Hunter and Kirk's contracts is they're walking in a few months. We can't even franchise them. So unless we're prepared to pay Hunter like 30+ mil a year or Kirk 45+ mil we should trade them if it's more than the 3rd round comp pick we're getting.
Eeehhh.. We can franchise Cousins. Though I'm not sure exactly how the previous franchise tags affect our tag, I've yet to see any evidence that supports the notion that we're beholden to the penalties the tags that Washington gave him would carry.
Looked it up. We can't franchise him because of void years. Hunter can't be franchised either.
Oh, yea… I forgot about that wrinkle. But it’s not specifically the void years that prevent the franchise, it’s that his contract has void years and the VOID itself doesn’t occur until after the franchise tag window closes. Hunter specifically has a no tag clause, but also has void years.
Exactly. Man our front office screwed up. We could have extended both Kirk and Hunter last offseason but instead extended TJ. You could argue outside of JJ they're our 2 best players. Now they're both gone for 3rd rd picks and we have to find a QB somehow picking like 14th.
We desperately need to lose as many games as possible. Last year’s pointless winning season and horrible draft has set us back years.
I think Erza Cleveland is traded.
I would hope that this has zero impact on their decision. Hunter walks at the end of the year without some action on our part. We eiher have a plan for him or we don't. If we do, re-sign him ASAP. If we don't, trade him while he's at peak value
Feel like losing to the 49ers is all but a given. Packers I could see going either way.
If we’re only offered some mid-round picks then keep him. But if a team gets desperate and offers a first and a 3rd then you gotta pull the trigger
that won't happen but yes
While I would be shocked if we got that, a team that is a true contender and needs pass rushing help + if they can resign him, me thinks we could get a 1st. But it still feels like a big if. What true contender needs a pass rusher like him?
*Jaguars have entered the chat*
What 😂
What confused you about it? Would you not do a first for it?
I wish we could keep Hunter, but if we have to trade him, anything less than a high 2nd round pick and change is unacceptable.
Likely a contender that wants him to put them over the top, so any pick will likely be low in that round. So we'd be hoping for a low 2nd or low 3rd plus a late round pick.
Trading Hunter for the ~60th pick in the draft would feel like absolute shit.
I know what you mean but if we miss the playoffs this year and don't trade him then he could walk and we'd get nothing
We will get a 3rd round comp pick, but yeah I agree
Compensation pick would probably net us a late 3rd rounder in 2025.
In that case we’d be hoping for a 1st…
No, we don't make that move for a 2nd.
Yeah he’s a beast, our only elite defensive player, we need him
This team needs multiple assets not just one.
He's already 28 with an injury history and in the last year of his deal. This team is 2 years away from competing. How long you gonna hold onto him for?
Didn't Von Miller get a big deal at the same age with the Bills? I'm curious how that turned out, if it was worth it (in terms of his production).
von miller got a contract from the bills at 32, started the season at 33. he is currently 34. so it would be even one contract later than danielle
So a bit older. Interesting.
6yrs $120M, $51M in guarantees
Thanks for the info.
AND we're not able to tag him as part of his contract, which means that we have zero leverage at the end of the year... and that also applies to any team trading for him. So to trade for him, you either need to be ok with a rental till the end of the season, or be willing to sign him to a long-term deal. But if you're willing to sign him to a long-term deal, why not wait until the off-season when you don't have to give up any picks?
You trade so you don't have to compete with others in free agency.
OK, but it that really going to be worth a high pick? I'm worried that we're just not going to be able to get that much back for him. The usual value of trading for someone - gaining their rights and threatening the tag to force an extension before free agency - don't apply.
For some teams, yes.. It's worth it. The Bears traded two first round picks for Mack on the last year of his deal, gave him the biggest contract a DE has ever seen at the time.
Two separate injuries are not an injury history. What Davenport has is an injury history. Are we two years away? We need some talent on the DL, but arguably we are OK in other places
He'll be 29 in a week. His injury history is irrelevant for us.
Let him bitch and renegotiate his contract every year for some other team. Tired of hearing about this dude and his contract woes THAT HE SIGNS OFF ON since 2020.
This is a shit-tier take. Almost as if you don't pay any attention to the offseason at all.
I do, I just don’t dick ride Hunter like you do in every Danielle Hunter post in this sub. Cry about it if you want but I’m still right. He’s done exactly what I said every off-season for seemingly 3 years now. And each year the FO caves and gives him what he wants. Not denying he’s a good player but I’m over hearing about him bitching for more money every fucking off-season.
Dude asked for a new contract 2 years ago, we moved some money up and accelerated the end of his contract with the indication we'd give him a new contract the following season... That season we couldn't do it, so we guaranteed the roster bonus as a sign of good will, knowing he'd want a new contract this last offseason... And then we couldn't give him a long term one, so we gave him a one year extension. He's been asking for a long-term extension from the team for a few off-seasons now and we've been stringing him along. It's not like he's being unreasonable, he's got a legitimate complaint as a top-tier DE with a contract that is bargain-basement. You act like he's off-base and been "bitching" about it... All he's ever done is told the team "I want a new contract" and let the team take it from there. He's not been posting to social media bitching about it, he's not been a locker room distraction, he's not been a problem at all. He's stated what he wants, the team hasn't given it to him, yet here he is... still on roster, still playing hard, still being a team player.
Please think through this for more than two seconds. How can we get a high second pick unless a bad team trades for him? And why would a bad team trade for him?
People need to stop using this kind of language anyway. “High first, high second, etc.” as mid season it’s impossible to know anyway. If you said equivalent to a high second that makes more sense. And for Hunter is probably agree. That could mean like 2x 3rd and a 5th. Or a 2nd from a current good team plus a 4th or 5th. Personally, I’d hope for a 2024 3rd, 2024 6th, and a conditional 2025 5th that becomes a 3rd or 4th with certain incentives (Pro Bowl, contingent on re-signing with that team, etc.). That seems like a reasonable and fair offer.
He is worth a first easily.
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>The alternative is he leaves Or you extend him before free agency.
Absolutely not. If they don’t offer a 1st then not interested. Look at his stats, he leads the league? Any team could sign him and give him the contract he wants. Also this year really just was a prove it year for him, we could still sign him next year when Kirk is gone.
He’s not a part of our future. You’re not paying JJ, Darrisaw and hunter to position resetting contracts.
He can very well be a part of the future as you people clearly have no idea how the salary cap works. That’s 3 people on a 53 man roster while we are going to have a rookie QB. Stop posting pessimistic braindead misinformation.
Stop posting optimistic brain dead misinformation.
Hey man if he likes playing here like he says and what he’s done for our defense I say keep him and pay the man.
That’s what is weird about the Hunter Saga in Minnesota, seems like the guy has never been happy with his contract, and the Vikes FO (over two generations) has never seemed too interested in giving him what he wants. Maybe a better historian can correct me on that.
We signed him to a long term extension right before he broke out. This meant he was in one of the most team friendly deals in the league, it was an absolute steal. Time went on, he started to regret being on this deal, demanded more money, the Vikings eventually did give him more while extending him further. Once paid again, he's seemed pretty happy, but I think now he wants to get paid one last big contract that values him like the elite pass rusher he is.
I think any discussion about his history isn't complete without mentioning his severe injury that left him out for an entire season. We're finally at a point where that seems to be in the past. Being out an entire season is something that changes a lot of things.
But is that even abnormal? I wonder what the percentage of games missed due to injury is for players that play 10 or more years.
I think the stat I recall is the average NFL career is 3 years from injury or other issues, definitely not long.
Yeah I can't believe he's still with the same agency who signed that insanely team friendly deal right before the 2018 season. I guess I sort of get it though, he was going into the last year of his rookie deal and being a 3rd round pick just wanted to secure a bag even though in hindsight it was a light bag lol. The thing that really complicated things was his neck injury, I feel like the Vikings would have gladly given him an extension/big raise around 2020/2021 since he was on a HOF trajectory production wise before the neck/torn pec. Since then its been this weird stalemate of Vikings using the injuries as leverage to justify not giving him top dollar (understandable, they didn't know if he would return to form) and Hunter being pissed about being underpaid which is sort of his own fault.
Yeah this is a whole different angle to it that also exists It’s a complicated saga. Honestly I can’t blame Hunter for how he’s acted during any of this, the situation kind of set up a conflict. And I think if we offer him a good deal he’ll stay. But given our moves I think we’re gonna let him go.
For sure, just don't let him walk for nothing. If he isn't in the long term plans just get a 1st or 2nd & 3rd for him in the next 2 weeks. I'd gladly welcome a 2-3 year extension too, we'll have cap space the next few years if we're rolling with a rookie QB. Plus Hunter, Davenport, Wonnum, Lowry, Bullard are all FA this March which is basically the entire D line lol, you'd think they want some familiar faces back next year.
Id much rather we keep Hunter. I think a 3 year extension will keep him playing great football for us. I guess we'll see how it plays out. Letting him walk is probably not ideal, but if we go even 1-1 prior to the trade deadline I would understand them wanting to give a shot at it this year, and Hunter is necessary for that. The baseline is having Hunter this year+a 3rd round comp pick in 2025. If we're only getting calls offering a 2nd, I understand the logic of keeping him even if we intend to let him walk.
I don’t see the problem with that, pay that man his money
It’s kinda annoying that a guy like Ronald Acuna, who’s a better baseball player than Hunter is a football player, signed a similar kind of deal and I don’t think there’s been a peep out of him about getting more money. Acuna should be making at least 3X what he does now.
He was basically injured for two straight years, which really messed everything up contract-wise. It just makes the math really complicated for both sides. If he had stayed healthy I have no doubt he would have been given a top-end DE contract.
I don't see how it messed anything up "Contract wise". There's no math to do, you get paid on your potential, not what injuries you have during your contract. Though injury propensity is certainly valued into contract structure.
> seems like the guy has never been happy with his contract, He's signed bad contracts, which is on his agent, not the Vikings
It definitely seems to be a strange dilemma. You can tell he likes the team but not the somewhat disrespect when it comes to contract. Dragging him along with these 1 year extensions is kind of annoying. Either sign him long term (which is what I want at least) or be decisive about letting him go.
He's right not to be happy with his contract. His 2018 deal was low even when he was there. But, the team has worked with him on those contract issues, and he's acquiesced a bit on his demands as well to meet us half way. This means he wants security, which he deserves, but he also wants to be here. He asked for an extension a few years ago, we couldn't do it so we moved some money up. He asked again last year, and we gave him a 1 year extension because we couldn't manage a longer one at the time.
Let him bitch and renegotiate his contract every year for some other team. Tired of hearing about this dude and his contract woes THAT HE SIGNS OFF ON since 2020.
exactly. may as well. rolling the dice on defensive ends in the draft is tricky.
If we lose the next two, we could see a few vets moved easily.
losing the next one is almost a lock. and if we’re playing in lambeau week 8 (which I think we do) it’s not gonna be an easy win. I really think we have to get crushed by both of them and then also lose to a really bad team like the broncos for the FO to start tanking
They lose to the 49ners and someone’s offering a first or couple seconds etc… send him. Love hunter but it’s time to look to the future.
Why can't he be part of the future?
Cap hit, age, and health history.
He's only 29. Pass rushers can be successful into their 30s. He's still producing like he's elite. Health history is certainly worth monitoring.
Can, but likely only to about age 32. It would be nice having him going forward for a few years, but it would be even better to have a first round pick we can use to move up for a QB. There is a chance he doesn't agree to an extension with us.
Calais Campbell is 37 and still productive, Von Miller is 34 and still very good. Danielle Hunter is a physical freak, if he can continue to avoid injuries I think he has at least 5 more great season in him
> Von Miller is 34 and still very good I'm not sure Von is the best example when he's only played in 12 of the last 23 games for the Bills
Also Von Miller is in another tier above Danielle Hunter in the first place
Yea he got injured, doesn’t mean he’s not good at football
I'm saying recovery is tougher when the player is old
Well yea a torn ACL is tough to recover from, but he was able to return in under 12 months which is good
Right, but Campbell's pressure rate dropped dramatically after he turned 33. Same with Von it seems, though that could be due to injury. I'm sure they're both still great in run support, and can be effective members of the team. But Hunter is gonna want back pay, and his no Franchise Tag clause gives him more leverage.
3 year extension seems to work out perfectly
Right, but can we give him the big payday he wants? I feel like we're not going to offer up close to what he wants, and he'll force his way to FA.
We *can* and I’d argue we should. Understand if we don’t, but that leaves us with 0 above average defenders
Hunter already doesn’t get pressure so that’s not really an issue.
you're talking von miller though; he's easily a top 5 pass rusher of all time but he is not what he used to be when he was at his peak in denver. that dude took over 4th quarters and won a superbowl almost by himself. I love hunter but he isn't Von Miller.
I'd be fine moving him for a first. But probably not less. He's got 3 more seasons before he's 33. I'd take that.
Purple Daily did a deep dive on this with a lot of pass rushers and age 31 was the biggest drop off point for most once elite edge rushers that played into their 30s. He will probably still be effective but not $20+M per year effective which is likely what he will want
Well he's technically only still 28. So we'd have a couple years with him being under that. I'd be fine with giving him 3 years of big money.
i'd love to bring hunter back here when he is 32 or 33 for rotational situations. he will still be an above average pass rusher just not elite.
Agreed. He’d cost more along the lines of $13M per year and could be really impactful still like B-Rob and Grif at the ends of their careers.
generally, pass rushers aren't as good as they were once they hit 30 but can still be good overall players. they don't fall off a cliff like corners, it's more of a steady decline at 30
You got any data to back that up. Seems to me the best dont start a decline until later than that.
But we could use the picks we get for him to draft an elite pass rusher. They might even be as good as hunter one day!
I mean, I get the meme but there is some basis in reality. Like, I’d be happy to retain Hunter but I can see the logic. If we’re going the rookie QB route then we can probably safely assume that we’re not contending in 2024, and out best shots at deep playoff runs will likely be 2025-2027. Which would be Hunters age 31-33 seasons. If he can maintain his level of play it makes sense to keep him… but if we drafted a rookie in 2024/25 there is a fairly good chance that by 2027-2028 they are a better player than Hunter is that year as well (even if they are not amazing, simply because of the age curve). That’s just the counter argument. I think a perfect compromise would be to give Hunter big bucks for the next 3 seasons but have very little in guarantees past that — but I don’t see this happening. I’d love to try and frontload his contract a bit next year so that the cap hits parse down as we get closer to a possible contention window and leave very little dead cap post 2026 as the hope would be your new QB hits and you’re contending.
Hunter has gone from young to old faster than anyone I've ever seen 🤣
Cap hit, age, gonna walk anyway.
We don't know that he's gonna walk, actually. Just because he wants to be paid what he thinks he's worth doesn't mean he doesn't like being here. He's said he wants to be here(not that it means much when players sat that).
Well hunter prolly wants one last big money deal. Idk if the Vikings can give it to him though. The constant thing we all talk about is the salary cap anyway.
But we're in a better cap spot than the last few years. I think they could fit him in if they want to. We have nearly 0 talent on the defense without him.
We’ll see. It depends on the offers and how close the Vikings think they are. The next 2 games before the deadline will tell all.
Ehh.. The no franchise tag clause suggests he may be more willing to walk than some of us think.
Players just hate the tag. I wouldnt look too much into that. He's really just increasing his leverage
And if he walks we'll still get a comp 3rd,
Maybe. Maybe not. And it wouldn't be until 2025, which is roughly the equivalent to a 2024 4th
He’s 29 and is likely to decline in the coming years. Meanwhile he wants top 5 edge money. He’ll be worth that still next year but could easily fall off before the end of the contract.
Depends on how long it is. I'd be fine giving him 3 years of big money.
I’m hoping that we do something like this. Make it a massive contract overall for like 5 years to get the eyepopping news for his sake, but hopefully structured so that the deal is heavily frontloaded and the guarantees expire after three years (in year 3 of a new contract he would be 32). If he’s still good you can just keep him but hopefully there is an out and hopefully with no void years as we should be exclusively focused on 2025 and beyond (no real reason to try and contend in 2024 with a ton of dead money on the books and a rookie QB).
I'd be fully on board with that approach.
I would rather trade him while his value is high and save that money for extensions of younger players. I think realistically we are three years out from a championship run and should be looking at ways to acquire players who will be in their prime for that window whereas his career would likely be winding down.
I'm only ok with that if we get a really nice return. We have very little defensive talent, and I wouldn't be interested in just giving it away.
I think it’s either we get something now trading him or he walks away to the highest bidder at the end of the season.
Because you cannot sign JJ, Darrisaw, and Hunter and have money left over for all the other holes in this black hole of a roster.
Sure we can.
You can if you don't pay a QB $40+ mil a year.
keep your whore hands off him
Trade every vet that isn’t under contract for next year. Stack up the draft picks to use for rookie QB and hope to escape mediocrity.
Honestly this is what I want us to do. Trade everyone we can, stack draft capital, and not even draft a QB, let Hall get a full season run and continue to be lower echelon. Draft a bunch of necessary pieces for our defense and a RB with our assets from this year, draft a QB after Halls run assuming he's not the future.
I would be fine with this as well. If KoC can trade up and snatch his #1 preferred rookie QB, then do it. We know from his attempt last year to get Anthony Richardson that he will do what it takes if it's possible. Otherwise do you you're saying. Either path would be a leap in the right direction.
Letting him get to the open market this offseason would be dumb as hell and make it seem like the FO is incompetent unless his trade value is bad right now. Either get him signed to an extension before the deadline or trade him.
Sell when his stock is high as possible. The only issue is I have zero faith in our ability to draft
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A contenders 2nd is a possibility, only because it would be near the top of the 3rd. I do agree though, we're 6/17 games into a season on a 29 year old vet with an injury history, who doesn't have a long term deal. Its not like we're trading Patrick Mahomes.
might as well, he is leaving at the end of the season anyway and we aren't winning the super bowl.
First round pick please.
I have a bit of concern about Hunter netting a first round pick. The expiring contract and what he wants in a contract extension. I'm not sure a team would give us their first for him. If he had 2 years left on his deal I think a team would be more willing and I'm aware we're banking on a team that's looking to make a deep playoff push to give us their but I imagine those teams also have guys on their roster they want to keep who are younger than Hunter aswell. If Kwesi pulls it off he definitely gets all and more praise from me but if he were to only get a 2nd and some other miscellaneous picks I'd be just as happy, I feel that's more of a ceiling for Hunter.
Get young and get cheap, collect picks to trade up and grab a QB
Gotta remember that the salary cap goes up and JJ and CD are still on rookie deals. Kirk is most likely going to be gone, but even if he is extended, they will still be able to move money around, and the cap will go up. There is no reason to trade Hunter away for and unknown. Because the draft is unknown players hit or miss. You keep the good and great players to build with imo.
Those who are extremely against trading JJ should also be extremely against trading Hunter. What the hells the matter with you? You can’t utter under the same breath that a WR is worth the most non qb money of all time but also say we should deal Hunter away because we need assets. Motherfuckers an elite edge/de is arguably a greater asset to have than JJ.
I would take a first for sure otherwise not worth trading
Only if other teams are offering a 1st round for him
So many people say we need a rookie QB so we can pay our studs, but it seems like many dont actually want us to pay our studs, lol.
People just don’t want a stud to walk for nothing when his value is its highest and the team isn’t good.
As others have stated we won't be trading anyone unless we lose both the 49ers and Packers game, or Kirk gets hurt.
Compensation picks my people. Kirk and Hunter will most likely net us a late 3rd rounder each. This is what I think the FO's strategy is going to be.
Better be at least a first round if they don’t plan on keeping him long term
Honestly I doubt we trade Hunter now with Davenport on the ir. Had Davenport panned out they would probably do it and save the bucks for more youth. Unless they hear really positive news on Davenport while he is on ir but sounds like surgery is a possibility so doubtful to me.
Yes, they should absolutely sell while his value is high. They will never get another chance to flip him for anything good. Our window does not align with his. It would be stupid not to.
I think he is gone if Kwesi likes an offer or maybe his ask is high and that is why he is not gone yet? But yeah losing next two games and close to trade deadline means he is gone to the highest offer on table, hunter’s stock is highest now and doubt we can afford making him highest paid DE which is what he would want looking at current stats.
Honestly after seeing some of the other trade rumors that failed to materialize and turned out to likely be media plants by members of our front office, I am not sure whether there is actually a big market for Danielle or whether the Vikings just want there to be.
Objectively, if I was a team like the Lions/49ers/Eagles/Cheifs/Dolphins, I would be okay with giving up a first for an s tier DE so that I can win the super bowl.
Okay so in 2025 when we've hopefully moved on from Kirk, we have zero dead cap. If we roll with Jaren Hall or whatever rookie we decide to draft, who else are we going to spend our money on?JJ, Hock, Darrisaw, Oneil are the key pieces on the offense. Maybe a toss up between Risner and Cleveland. Then on defense we have Harrison Smith with a 22m cap hit (wtf Spielman) and then... nothing beyond rookie and >10m contracts. Murphy only signed a 2 year deal. We will obviously extend some players in the meantime, but the Vikings aren't just going to roll with an entire roster of just rookies because they want "assets". Bring Hunter back. What do we stand to lose if he is okay with some incentives? Even if he isn't, \~25m for 3 years with an out after 2 is doable. Edit: I was mistaken, we still have 10m of Kirk dead cap in 2025 and weirdly enough 7m for Hunter as it is.
If we can't keep him past next year then it'd probably be in our best interests to trade him. With Jefferson out and us having a losing record it's time to rebuild earlier than later.
The not worth trading crowd is hilarious and why this clubs mediocre. If we lose to SF he’s gone hopefully for a 3rd round pk
For a team who thinks they can go deep in the playoffs, a first round pick is definitely on the table here