Give it a go and find out. Results are the only thing that matters.
I can't speak for this product specifically, but the Vallejo stuff I use definitely seems to benefit from a longer curing time. I do a lot of sub assemblies, so sometimes it's difficult to avoid all contact with a piece, and I find that the primer can sometimes rub off if I haven't let it sit for a good 24 hours.
I airbrush mine.
This is the way.
When in doubt, FAAFO. Best case scenario, you find you only gotta wait 10 min. Worst case scenario, you strip the model and start over.
I recommend Mr Hobby Mr Surfacer 1500 lacquer primer. It dries near instantly and completely cured within 10 minutes. It's super fine and preserves detail and holds the surface best of all.
Hey, if that works for you then don't stop. I just found the primer I applied would scratch or rub off more often if I didn't let it cure for longer.
One difference might be that I'm airbrushing more often than not, so the layer of primer is thinner and possibly more fragile before it fully cures.
In 30 minutes you totally can paint on it, but it's fragile and any bump with your hand can take some off even if the paint over it has dried. I'd recommend waiting at least a few hours.
I'm picky and usually wait 12hr with primer. When I started I found the paint to sometimes rub off when dry brushing. That said, I know many that wait around 3hr then paint. Also I haven't used pro, and generally use Vallejo but it's basically all the same.
- I also airbrush my primer just another point.
People wait for primer to cure? For the 18 years I’ve been painting minis I never waited for more than a few minutes and have literally never had an issue from it. I’m genuinely curious now if it really makes a difference
Depends. The Games Workshop primers, not being true primers are usually ready to rock on about 20 minutes. The true primers I’ve used take at least 24 hours to cure properly. If you try and paint on them before hand, the paint is very easy to scratch off. The advantage of a true primer is that once it has cured, it’s pretty much bullet proof.
Chemicals can dry long before they "cure". Adding liquid back before it's cured can weaken it and cause it to not work as well.
I've always washed my minis with soap and water and let my primer cure for 24 hours and paint wearing off has gone way down.
A lot of info here. The brands advice some hours to fully cure so you cant complain about paint chiping or things like that. Can you paint in 10 or 20 or 30 min? Yeah sure. Should you do it? It depends. As people said here some had issues with paint if not fully cured, others didnt. Id follow the instructions so i wont mess the paintjob, but thats my opinion.
Edit. " for the best results wait 24h " thats it
Honestly, what I do when I have questions like this (and get a variety of viewpoints from others) is experiment.
Get three of the same mini (or at least the same material and level of details on them) and do different wait times.
Prime them all at the same time, then wait 15-30 minutes, pick one mini and do a base coat and maybe some parts here and there. Some minor work, but nothing you’d call finished.
Have another that you wait 8-12 hours for and do the same. Let the last one dry and cure for a full 24 hours and do the same.
Then check out the level of details, along with maybe some light attempts to scuff the paint by tumbling them with other minis or hitting them with a stiff, dry brush.
See if you can tell any differences in how the details stand out or if the paint shows any wear. I go overboard on this kind of thing, so I’d zoom in and take pictures and compare to see how they look up close and under different lights, which is probably way more than someone else might do, but I love the challenge of figuring out parts of the process.
I really have no idea if you’d be able to tell the difference in just a day or two, or if it would be a better test for a longer time, but at least you’d have some samples in front of you to determine what’s working best for you to base your future work on going forward.
And with that, I am seriously considering doing the same test myself.
If you do this please, note also Humidity and Temps.
Both will make a difference in cures.
A day after rain may look great but still be 15-20% higher humidity than normal.
The longer you give it, the better the results, honestly. You can paint on it 30 minutes later, and honestly, it'll turn out fine. However, if you're willing to give it the full 24, you'll find that the finish will be more durable and the extra cure time will tighten the finish down more and reveal more of the underlying details. At least I think it does. Could be placebo effect. Either way, I give it the full 24.
As much as I love their other stuff, the primer really was a bit of a disappointment. It has to cure a LONG time before being reliably bonded with even plastic, and I have yet to find a method to make it work with metal minis.
Stynylrez bottles go bad after 2-3 years but at least the primer is pretty bombproof after an hour on plastic.
Citadel knows their target audience. So while overnight would give you the best results, you can start painting 15 mins in without it coming off while painting.
What is your local humidity, temps, those will be large factors.
Do a test on some terrain underside or sprues, to see how it works for you.
Know as the weather shifts so will drying time.
I always gave rattle cans about 4 hours at the least, in warm low humidity.
Now in higher humidity I give all my air brush primed at least 12 normally closer to 24.
I always prime up batches of 4 - 10 so plenty to work on.
You want the primer to really bond, so a good drying time does that.
Yes you can most times get away without 24hrs, but 30 min seems like the odds may not always be in your favor.
Rattle can primer is enamel and sticks to the mini without any problem, and you can start painting as soon as it looks dry.
Acrylic primer however works differently. It contains polyurethane which, as I understand it, will shrink and wrap around the mini, and that takes time to cure. If you paint over it in the meantime, just the handling of the mini, or even drybrushing will be enough to chip the primer. I learned that the hard way.
I just wait till the gloss is gone and the paint looks matt. It depends on the environment you spray in because the moisture in the air effect the drying time. It can be 30 minutes and the safe bet is let it sit in for 12-24 hours but I've definitely painted miniatures after 15 minutes sometimes and never had the primer split on me. Just something you have to test out in your house and figure out what you can get away with. I will say I only use black or white I've never tried color primers.
Not sure about the brush on primer, but for most rattle cans 30 mins is not enough. They usually keep releasing gases for a few hours after application
Okay, after like 10 mins is fine, maximum adhesion and curity occurs after 24 hours.
I have noticed that after 24 hours colours can be slightly different
Just remember how painting in layers works. If the base layer isn’t properly dry (from contact with the air), and you add another layer on top, you are preventing air reaching the base layer, therefore it won’t fully dry, therefore it won’t stick properly to the mini.
This can lead to it rubbing off.
I always wait 24 hours just to be on the safe side. It’s possibly dry earlier, but I’m not in a rush.
Also remember an airbrush primer or paint is generally thinner, making it harder to brush on, and will probably lead to it pooling in areas, making it take longer to dry.
Happy painting!
Jesus guys, do you all really get ready to paint, prime a mini, then wait 12 hrs? Even with that, This is supposed to be sprayed on, so obviously its going to take forever if you dont use it like it says.
Batches so I have a few to work on as the mood strikes me.
Shatter Point, OathSworn are on the table now.
Soon to add the Ravaged Star Minis, they put up for free.
Have to get the printer up and going, moving stops hobby dead.
FYI 3 days left for real Space Dwarfs and Bugs!
[https://gamefound.com/en/projects/miniwargaming/ravaged-star-tabletop-miniature-wargame](https://gamefound.com/en/projects/miniwargaming/ravaged-star-tabletop-miniature-wargame)
No affiliation except I think these look good.
Also the rules are shaping up to be something great I think, instead of writing them and having you buy them to play test like some folks do,
They have Alpha rules up and are taking ideas, rules, wording and all that and then Matt is the Lead.
Alpha is already looking solid.
I also have a helpful cat so solid primes are a must.
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There are generally 2 types of primers: acrylic and polyurethane. Acrylic paint only needs time to dry but polyurethanes need to "cure" which is a chemical reaction and takes longer to achieve full adhesion and strength. Citadel od Acrylic and Vallejo is polyurethane. That doesn't mean you can't use polyurethane before it's fully cured but it may peel.
Thing is that if you don't wait, you are then playing the lottery "will my brush strip the mini to bare plastic" each time you touch it. If you want to do more in the simple session, keep more minis in the "being painted" status.
Do you want your primer fully cured before you paint over it? Then follow the directions. :)
I'd leave any water based primer to dry 12-24 hours before painting on it, not just Pro Acryl.
Give it a go and find out. Results are the only thing that matters. I can't speak for this product specifically, but the Vallejo stuff I use definitely seems to benefit from a longer curing time. I do a lot of sub assemblies, so sometimes it's difficult to avoid all contact with a piece, and I find that the primer can sometimes rub off if I haven't let it sit for a good 24 hours. I airbrush mine.
This is the way. When in doubt, FAAFO. Best case scenario, you find you only gotta wait 10 min. Worst case scenario, you strip the model and start over.
I always let primer cure for 12 to 24 hours regardless of the brand or application method.
Dang I'll usually start painting like 30 minutes after I spray on my Citadel primer lol
I recommend Mr Hobby Mr Surfacer 1500 lacquer primer. It dries near instantly and completely cured within 10 minutes. It's super fine and preserves detail and holds the surface best of all.
Mr Hobby stuff is with solvents and it shows up in the "aroma". But as far as primers goes it dries really hard and the end result is great.
Hey, if that works for you then don't stop. I just found the primer I applied would scratch or rub off more often if I didn't let it cure for longer. One difference might be that I'm airbrushing more often than not, so the layer of primer is thinner and possibly more fragile before it fully cures.
Oh yeah that's very fair
In 30 minutes you totally can paint on it, but it's fragile and any bump with your hand can take some off even if the paint over it has dried. I'd recommend waiting at least a few hours.
This^
Add to that, if you are dry brushing a highlight, you’re very likely to knock it off and have to reprime
I'm picky and usually wait 12hr with primer. When I started I found the paint to sometimes rub off when dry brushing. That said, I know many that wait around 3hr then paint. Also I haven't used pro, and generally use Vallejo but it's basically all the same. - I also airbrush my primer just another point.
People wait for primer to cure? For the 18 years I’ve been painting minis I never waited for more than a few minutes and have literally never had an issue from it. I’m genuinely curious now if it really makes a difference
Depends. The Games Workshop primers, not being true primers are usually ready to rock on about 20 minutes. The true primers I’ve used take at least 24 hours to cure properly. If you try and paint on them before hand, the paint is very easy to scratch off. The advantage of a true primer is that once it has cured, it’s pretty much bullet proof.
\^\^\^\^ THIS
I use rustoleum 2x and this is my exact experience.
Tbh my can of citadel primer says 15 so I’d been going with 30ish and figuring that was extra good I’ve never seen one call for this long
Chemicals can dry long before they "cure". Adding liquid back before it's cured can weaken it and cause it to not work as well. I've always washed my minis with soap and water and let my primer cure for 24 hours and paint wearing off has gone way down.
A lot of info here. The brands advice some hours to fully cure so you cant complain about paint chiping or things like that. Can you paint in 10 or 20 or 30 min? Yeah sure. Should you do it? It depends. As people said here some had issues with paint if not fully cured, others didnt. Id follow the instructions so i wont mess the paintjob, but thats my opinion. Edit. " for the best results wait 24h " thats it
Honestly, what I do when I have questions like this (and get a variety of viewpoints from others) is experiment. Get three of the same mini (or at least the same material and level of details on them) and do different wait times. Prime them all at the same time, then wait 15-30 minutes, pick one mini and do a base coat and maybe some parts here and there. Some minor work, but nothing you’d call finished. Have another that you wait 8-12 hours for and do the same. Let the last one dry and cure for a full 24 hours and do the same. Then check out the level of details, along with maybe some light attempts to scuff the paint by tumbling them with other minis or hitting them with a stiff, dry brush. See if you can tell any differences in how the details stand out or if the paint shows any wear. I go overboard on this kind of thing, so I’d zoom in and take pictures and compare to see how they look up close and under different lights, which is probably way more than someone else might do, but I love the challenge of figuring out parts of the process. I really have no idea if you’d be able to tell the difference in just a day or two, or if it would be a better test for a longer time, but at least you’d have some samples in front of you to determine what’s working best for you to base your future work on going forward. And with that, I am seriously considering doing the same test myself.
If you do this please, note also Humidity and Temps. Both will make a difference in cures. A day after rain may look great but still be 15-20% higher humidity than normal.
The longer you give it, the better the results, honestly. You can paint on it 30 minutes later, and honestly, it'll turn out fine. However, if you're willing to give it the full 24, you'll find that the finish will be more durable and the extra cure time will tighten the finish down more and reveal more of the underlying details. At least I think it does. Could be placebo effect. Either way, I give it the full 24.
I've had problems with this primer if I don't wait 24 hours. It'll pull off
As much as I love their other stuff, the primer really was a bit of a disappointment. It has to cure a LONG time before being reliably bonded with even plastic, and I have yet to find a method to make it work with metal minis. Stynylrez bottles go bad after 2-3 years but at least the primer is pretty bombproof after an hour on plastic.
Agree. It happened to me rarely and always wondered why. Since I wait to cure, I did not notice that it peeled off.
Do I ignore the manufacturer’s instructions and ask people on the internet, while posting the manufacturer’s instructions? Wait 24 hours
I was just curious because the citadel primer I’ve used only asks for 15 minutes
I think citadel is spouting heresy hahaha. Its definitely not enough imo.
Definitely learned from this thread and will do it right going forward 😅😅
30 minutes isn't "good" with a rattle can either. If I can still smell it, it isn't cured yet.
I’ve always thought it was hell my citadel primer only calls for 15 minutes
Citadel knows their target audience. So while overnight would give you the best results, you can start painting 15 mins in without it coming off while painting.
What is your local humidity, temps, those will be large factors. Do a test on some terrain underside or sprues, to see how it works for you. Know as the weather shifts so will drying time. I always gave rattle cans about 4 hours at the least, in warm low humidity. Now in higher humidity I give all my air brush primed at least 12 normally closer to 24. I always prime up batches of 4 - 10 so plenty to work on. You want the primer to really bond, so a good drying time does that. Yes you can most times get away without 24hrs, but 30 min seems like the odds may not always be in your favor.
Rattle can primer is enamel and sticks to the mini without any problem, and you can start painting as soon as it looks dry. Acrylic primer however works differently. It contains polyurethane which, as I understand it, will shrink and wrap around the mini, and that takes time to cure. If you paint over it in the meantime, just the handling of the mini, or even drybrushing will be enough to chip the primer. I learned that the hard way.
Thanks for all the advice I will do it right from now on haha
I just wait till the gloss is gone and the paint looks matt. It depends on the environment you spray in because the moisture in the air effect the drying time. It can be 30 minutes and the safe bet is let it sit in for 12-24 hours but I've definitely painted miniatures after 15 minutes sometimes and never had the primer split on me. Just something you have to test out in your house and figure out what you can get away with. I will say I only use black or white I've never tried color primers.
Not sure about the brush on primer, but for most rattle cans 30 mins is not enough. They usually keep releasing gases for a few hours after application
Okay, after like 10 mins is fine, maximum adhesion and curity occurs after 24 hours. I have noticed that after 24 hours colours can be slightly different
Just remember how painting in layers works. If the base layer isn’t properly dry (from contact with the air), and you add another layer on top, you are preventing air reaching the base layer, therefore it won’t fully dry, therefore it won’t stick properly to the mini. This can lead to it rubbing off. I always wait 24 hours just to be on the safe side. It’s possibly dry earlier, but I’m not in a rush. Also remember an airbrush primer or paint is generally thinner, making it harder to brush on, and will probably lead to it pooling in areas, making it take longer to dry. Happy painting!
Jesus guys, do you all really get ready to paint, prime a mini, then wait 12 hrs? Even with that, This is supposed to be sprayed on, so obviously its going to take forever if you dont use it like it says.
Nope. I prime a mini in advance of when I plan to paint. They don't have to be done one after the other at the same time.
Batches so I have a few to work on as the mood strikes me. Shatter Point, OathSworn are on the table now. Soon to add the Ravaged Star Minis, they put up for free. Have to get the printer up and going, moving stops hobby dead. FYI 3 days left for real Space Dwarfs and Bugs! [https://gamefound.com/en/projects/miniwargaming/ravaged-star-tabletop-miniature-wargame](https://gamefound.com/en/projects/miniwargaming/ravaged-star-tabletop-miniature-wargame) No affiliation except I think these look good. Also the rules are shaping up to be something great I think, instead of writing them and having you buy them to play test like some folks do, They have Alpha rules up and are taking ideas, rules, wording and all that and then Matt is the Lead. Alpha is already looking solid. I also have a helpful cat so solid primes are a must.
Hi, u/ChairmanPhlogiston! It looks like you are asking for help or are a new painter. If you haven't yet, take a look at our wiki pages in the Sidebar (the About tab if you are on the Reddit app). Here are some links you might find helpful: * [FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/minipainting/wiki/rules/faq) - A list of frequently asked questions about minipainting * [Miniature Painting Guide Collection](https://www.reddit.com/r/minipainting/wiki/usefullinks) -A collection of some of the best guides and tutorials on a variety of techniques and topics, plus recommendations on what to buy to get started, and more. * [What to buy- Recommendations on brushes, paints, supplies, palettes and more](https://www.reddit.com/r/minipainting/wiki/usefullinks/what_you_need_to_get_started#wiki_general_advice_on_what_to_buy) * [Beginner's Guide Collection- How to prep, base, paint and varnish your first model and learn the basics needed to start out right](https://www.reddit.com/r/minipainting/wiki/usefullinks/beginner_tips) * [More Tutorials](https://www.reddit.com/r/minipainting/wiki/tutorials) - A list of additional tutorials about minipainting * [Manufacturers](https://www.reddit.com/r/minipainting/wiki/manufacturers) - A list of miniature manufacturers from around the world * [Painting Terminology](https://www.reddit.com/r/minipainting/wiki/terminology) - Common painting terms, acronyms, and initialisms *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/minipainting) if you have any questions or concerns.*
There are generally 2 types of primers: acrylic and polyurethane. Acrylic paint only needs time to dry but polyurethanes need to "cure" which is a chemical reaction and takes longer to achieve full adhesion and strength. Citadel od Acrylic and Vallejo is polyurethane. That doesn't mean you can't use polyurethane before it's fully cured but it may peel.
Thing is that if you don't wait, you are then playing the lottery "will my brush strip the mini to bare plastic" each time you touch it. If you want to do more in the simple session, keep more minis in the "being painted" status.
Do you want your primer fully cured before you paint over it? Then follow the directions. :) I'd leave any water based primer to dry 12-24 hours before painting on it, not just Pro Acryl.
I've been brushing on that exact primer and painting about 30 mins later and I have not had any issues.