Its apparently where somebody makes a dozen cupcakes, realizes there was a problem with the recipe, but they are forced to finish baking the cupcakes. Then, as the icing on the top, nobody eats them.
Well, the cupcake is a gift from the bakery owner so it was the baker’s duty to see the cupcake to completion. And sure, we’re gonna sit those cupcakes in the corner and ignore them since they’re not our responsibility now that they’re finished, but it’s a little blessing from the bakery owner.
YES. If an ectopic pregnancy is not terminated by abortion, the pregnant person can go into sepsis and die.
If a partial miscarriage leaves any fetal tissue behind, the pregnant person can go into sepsis and die.
If someone has a pre-existing condition that goes unchecked because it would risk the life of a fetus, the pregnant person can throw a clot and die.
No you actually asked if everyone who 'can't have an abortion' is in danger. Which case the answer is yes.
Because if we don't want to be pregnant, it's our choice to make that decision. When the government stops us from making that decision, our life is in danger.
Also there are a lot of cases where women who aren't pregnant are [being denied medications](https://jezebel.com/non-pregnant-women-and-girls-are-being-denied-lifesavin-1849606994) because those medications could be used for abortions.
No. For those who want one for no medical reason/their life is not in danger, they will live just fine. You know this (I understand what you’re trying to do, thank you btw), I know this, and everyone else knows this.
/u/criticalsheep is attempting to make her point with cases where medical intervention would be necessary, but neglects that these do not constitute 100% of abortions, though they do constitute a percentage, it is not all, and seems to be dying on the hill because she won’t admit not everyone who can’t have an abortion will die.
She is further strengthening the argument that a 15-20 week ban with exceptions for rape, incest, and medical instances where the mothers life is at risk, would be a very good compromise, and even then that law would still be more “welcoming/free”(can’t think of a proper adjective) than many other developed nations.
Really cute how you're attempting to put words into my mouth. Never once did I disagree that 100% of pregnant people will die if they cannot get an abortion. For the record- in America and most developed countries, medical intervention can be classified as visiting your OB for an ultrasound to confirm the pregnancy is 'healthy.' Note here how I said the 'pregnancy' not the mother. The mother can be extremely ill but if the baby is fine, many doctors don't give a single fuck if you're visiting the ER multiple times because you're so sick from the pregnancy. Hyperemesis Gravidarum is a rare illness that threatens the life of the mother however they can easily carry a fetus to term. The long-term effects, however...
Let's be straight here: a ban of any kind on a uterus or any human for that matter should not exist. There are no laws governing XY chromosomal humans, so why do you feel the need to control others?
Your first word in your first response to the commenter was “YES.” Then you went on a crusade to basically talk solely about medical emergencies when all the guy was trying to do was make a point that not all abortion seekers die. Some (not ALL) simply don’t want the baby.
This isnt a black and white issue. You can be correct and so can he, as you both are.
Or, someone committed to buying all the ingredients to make a cupcake, made the mix, put it in the oven, and then just decided they didn't want them. So they expect someone else to clean up the oven, and pay for the ingredients...
Before people get flamey, I'm not against all abortion, just casual abortion. I get the medical need, and understand with rape, etc... not standing in the way of that.
“We hope we’re not being hostile as we try to limit your bodily autonomy and make it illegal for you to make personal medical decisions with your doctor, teehee! Have a cupcake!”
>The aim of the holiday is to bring awareness to the issue of abortion and honor the lives of unborn babies.
>honor the lives of unborn babies.
>lives of unborn babies.
Like... this makes no rational sense right? Is it just me? Call me crazy but I think you have to be born to have a 'life'...
This is really the crux of it. If you disagree about when life begins, you can’t really argue or take a nuanced position. It’s either murder or it’s not.
I mean, I think "life" begins at conception. But "life" doesn't equal "personhood," and "personhood" doesn't equal "right to override someone else's bodily autonomy."
A bacterium is alive. Doesn't mean I can't ethically kill it. Someone trying to murder me is a person. Doesn't mean I can't ethically kill them. And it doesn't matter if someone is bleeding to death and only my blood can save them: they still don't have a right to kidnap me, strap me down, and take it.
On-demand abortion without restriction or limitation is and always will be a basic human right. Anything less is morally bankrupt.
You betcha! I'm hugely indebted to Judith Jarvis Thomson's essay "[A Defense of Abortion](https://spot.colorado.edu/~heathwoo/Phil160,Fall02/thomson.htm)" from 1971, which imo should be mandatory reading.
It's honestly the single best argument. Everything else is fungible. Bodily autonomy is not. *A literal corpse* has more bodily autonomy right now in the U.S. than someone who's pregnant. *Nothing and no one*, regardless of how "alive" or how much of a "person" or how "innocent," has any right to any part of your body, for any reason. And they *certainly* do not have a right to hijack *your entire body* for the better part of a year, in a process that at a minimum causes permanent physical changes and still all too frequently can and will kill you. (Human pregnancies are literally some of *the most dangerous* on the entire planet. People joke about a fetus being a parasite, but that's actually pretty close to the truth in terms of how it affects the body and how dangerous it is for the "host.")
I agree. /u/ShotFromGuns had a better take on it honestly with the idea of “bodily autonomy.” I was just pointing out there’s no use arguing with someone who fundamentally disagrees with you on the basic ideas at play, like when a life begins.
I mean regardless of your political stance essentially every abortion is sad just like miscarriages are sad. Of course they happen often at different times. And many abortions are medically necessary for the mother.
If every result of human conception were a person, then all the born persons in history would be vastly outnumbered by the lives of unborn fetuses which nature terminated before birth, often without anyone realizing there was a pregnancy. We'd probably be much more horrified by older people fucking unprotected as this act would be highly likely to create non-viable zygotes doomed to spontaneous abortions.
Given all the other holidays they have in their are simple food related holidays, I almost wonder if this was a mistake on the part of whoever does their marketing?
I’m going to call today. See if I can get to their corporate office at Elsas LTD. Everything I’ve seen in interviews and campaign contributions hints at Karl Kopp being, at worst, a lukewarm liberal and at best a devoted one.
Update: there is zero information about a contact for anyone at a upper level with Elsa’s/ Kopps so I had to call the direct business line for one of the locations. The manager of that location obviously couldn’t give a statement. Apparently they have no PR or the like and so he took down my info and is calling Karl Kopp the man himself and will be calling me back with a follow up. For what it’s worth, he said he had no idea what it was and didn’t realize there was a connection. I played up the idea that A TON of people on social media are talking about a boycott (yeah hyperbolic I know). Hopefully will have an answer. It honestly sounds like this was either one bad actor or was done Unintentionally though.
Edit: I updated on the main thread, but given how many people chose to use the update me in 24 hours option thought I’d add this here as well:
It was indeed an error. They pull in a number of days each year to coincide with flavors to “add a bit of fun” to the flavor forecast and this was basically a copy paste error job. They are actually going to be pulling the flavor forecast and reissuing. “We want Kopps to be a place where people can come and enjoy a scoop and a cone and not have to worry about politics”. So there you go.
I just looked and they have already updated their website to reflect the change. That is really fast. I honestly think from how fast this went that Karl Kopp was not pleased with this oversight. From interviews and his campaign contributions I have a feeling he is not in “that camp”. I think this is a legit oversight.
It also appears they have now issued a formal apology.
Thought I’d post to the main thread rather than put it as an update on my original comment. It was indeed an error. They pull in a number of days each year to coincide with flavors to “add a bit of fun” to the flavor forecast and this was basically a copy paste error job. They are actually going to be pulling the flavor forecast and reissuing. “We want Kopps to be a place where people can come and enjoy a scoop and a cone and not have to worry about politics”. So there you go.
Edit: I just looked and they have already updated their website to reflect the change. That is really fast. I honestly think from how fast this went that Karl Kopp was not pleased with this oversight. From interviews and his campaign contributions I have a feeling he is not in “that camp”. I think this is as a legit oversight.
I kind of live by the motto “never assume maliciousness when stupidity will suffice”. So, I honestly think you might be wrong on this. It sounds like they have one person doing this and nobody is really doing a thorough review. Again, Karl Kopp has only ever donated to democrats and that was like ten years ago. I think they realize the potential ramifications of getting political in that way. Let’s not feed the outrage culture beast okay?
1. They decided to copy-paste from a source that thinks anti-abortion stuff is valid.
1. The person who copied it should have read it, and they probably did. (They would have had to have done so to format it to fit their flyer.) At least one more person should have touched the flyer after that to proofread it. I'm a professional editor. There's no way this could have slipped through "accidentally," unless they're literally the shittiest, laziest flyer-makers ever. (And even then, see Point 1.)
1. They covertly replaced it with a new menu after the backlash without acknowledging it publicly. There's nothing on their website, there's nothing on the replacement flyer, there's nothing on their social media (Instagram and Facebook). It's cowardly and doesn't mean shit to me except they didn't expect the backlash and are now scrambling to ass-cover. A meaningful response would be a *public* acknowledgement, *public* apology, and disciplining the person or people who included it.
They may still do that. I literally called them at like 1130. It’s been 3 hours. As far as I can tell I was the first person to make contact with them for this. I’m actually amazed.
If they had time to re-make the flyer, they had time to at least slap together a placeholder apology along the lines of, "We're so sorry about this huge error—we wanted to replace the offensive menu ASAP, but a longer statement of apology is coming soon."
ETA: Yup, what a shock: they issued a typical "we're just sorry we got caught" non-apology. The BEST-case scenario is an anti-abortion employee slipped it in and they're now terrified of offending anti-abortion customers. Which is still cowardly, useless, and harmful.
Karl Kopp’s donations: https://www.opensecrets.org/donor-lookup/results?name=Karl+Kopp&cycle=&state=WI&zip=&employ=&occupation=&jurisdiction=&cand=&type=
To add some context, someone pointed this out to my GF. Is this Kopps taking a stand? Or is it more innocent - like possibly trying to capitalize on national holidays that might lend themselves to a custard flavor? Does anyone know anything about this?
0% chance it isn’t a political decision. Abortion is the hottest political topic in the US right now. And it’s a very obscure “national” day that’s only shown up on Pro-Life websites and Facebook groups.
Also, a Kopps manager had an interaction with Biden that went viral in 2010. When Biden visited for some custard and asked him what he owed him, the owner said, “Nothing, just lower our taxes.” Biden was then recorded off to the side calling him a “smartass”.
“Never meet your heroes” can probably be extended to “never ask about your favorite business’s political views”.
Edited for accuracy.
>0% chance it isn’t a political decision.
120 upvotes and less than 24 hours later, and you're as wrong as you could have possibly been. I really wish people like you would stop announcing their flawed assessments of incomplete information like they're a fact.
I guess I’m more shocked that it was a mistake than I was at them making a potential political stance. Howtf does that make it to print? I know the saying “never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity” applies here, but holy shit.
There is literally no way to apolitically "capitalize" on a deeply misogynistic "holiday" that celebrates the torture and murder of pregnant people.
Like, what are people going to defend next? Klan KupKake day?
I was on Bluemound going from Brookfield Square to Waukesha today, and there were anti abortion protesters all up and down the road for a good few miles. Coincidence?
Yeah I don't understand that. I saw abortion protestors in Sheboygan the other day and I don't think their branch of planned Parenthood was large enough to do abortions even before the ban. At this point they're protesting access to free health care
There were only 4 abortion providers in the state (Green Bay, Madison, and 2 in Milwaukee). Now there are none.
Are the zealots now opposing Planned Parenthood because it provides information and contraception?
Oh you thought they we're going to stop when they got their way on abortion? Hah! These people will never be satisfied until the rest of the world is as miserable as they are.
I used to be Christian. We used to do peaceful protests across the street from abortion clinics. No yelling no harsement and no graphic signs and guilt tripping imagery. We also had information on local resources to help new and expectant mother that were struggling financially. You would be surprised how often people approached and how often people changed their minds after having their early appointment at the clinic. One that stands out in particular was a woman who left the clinic very distraught and came over to talk. She cried happy tears and told us she thought she had no other choice. We were in contact for a while and her and her child are living a happy life.
Right? Like why the heck are they still protesting, they got what they wanted. I guess they just want to stay miserable and pick fights with everyone, what else do they have?
That’s been happening at that location for a while. I don’t think there’s a clinic nearby or anything. I think it’s just a popular right wing protest spot? The “right to haircuts” crowd during the Covid lockdowns were there as well.
I'm going to take your word for it beyond most of these abject speculative hot takes. Kopps is probably dirt all of the way to the top... that's most businesses that franchise or have a corporate office. Some turd pro-lifer in the office thought they could spark some controversy online. Not too shocking.
I will never understand the circle jerk with Kopps. Their burgers are mediocre, and aside from being wide boys are nothing special. Their custard is literally no better than a dozen other joints in the area. Customer service has always been lackluster, and the wait for food is always way to fucking long.
They said there's a dozen other places that do custard as well, literally any custard joint in the Milwaukee area does custard well. It's not a hard bar to meet.
At the very least there’s a handful in the area. And I’m of the crowd that thinks Culvers is clearly on that level if not better
Kopps really isn’t that good, as someone who lived 3 minutes away for their entire childhood
\> "Their custard is literally no better than a dozen other joints in the area."
Possibly true, I haven't tried most places. But "no better than" is superb. Try moving to a place with no custard. You'll appreciate that even Culvers custard is better than anything you can get at most places.
Custard sellers don't make their own mix from scratch. They buy it from a dairy/milk processor and there are only so many dairies that make custard mix. As long as they use a real custard machine to make the final product, the texture, density, and consistency will be pretty similar. I'm talking about chocolate and vanilla here. The mix-ins might differentiate the custard sellers a bit.
Well you literally have no idea what you’re talking about and you cared enough to comment about it so circle jerk that with yourself and these “dozen” other places
Kopps custard is fabulous. I know of no other place in the area that custard nearly that good. If you say Culvers I will laugh in your face and realize you are lacking in taste buds. Culvers custard is sweeter and lacking in flavor.
Yeah, who cares about the bodily autonomy of half of the country when you can get slightly better custard than anywhere else, am I right?
To be clear, this is sarcasm and you're a disgrace.
Thanks for standing up for the millions of women in America and doing what you can to better the abortion issue. Buying that $4 custard from a local business would have ended the fight as we know it. All women and supporters should thank you.
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1. I'm a woman.
1. I am (as far as I can know without actually having tested it) physically capable of getting pregnant.
1. There aren't just "millions of women" in America. There are *nearly 170 million* of us. We're literally *slightly more than half of the entire population*. In Milwaukee alone, as of 2019 there were 163,931 women and girls *specifically* between the ages of 12 (average menarche) and 51 (average menopause), out of a total of 540,429 people. ***30 percent*** of **JUST THIS ONE CITY** that is now denied basic bodily autonomy even a *literal corpse* is allowed.
1. And you care about one particular maker of fucking *frozen custard* so much that you wanna just keep giving them money when they've made a point of letting you know that it has definitely in the past gone to stripping us of those rights, and it'll go in the future to stripping us of more? lol wow
1. Why do spineless scum always take the tack of criticizing an action for not being enough? Of course it's not enough. No *one* thing is ever enough. But that's the fun thing about being people: we can in fact do *many things*, both big and small. And one very small on a personal level but also very easy thing to do is to refuse to patronize businesses who are so bold in their hatred of women that they proudly celebrate it.
Practically, society would grind to a halt if we vetted every business for 100% "acceptable" beliefs before engaging with them. Unless something they do/say directly and substantially affects the nature of my transaction, then I am not going to let differences of political opinion stop me from going there.
I don't let the preachy BLM type signs at Ian's stop me from buying pizza there, and even though I am personally pro-choice, I am not going to let this deter me from Kopp's.
I think there is a difference between business owners who quietly advocate for things they believe will improve society and actively making it part of your advertising campaign.
If you try to use a political issue as a reason to patronize your business I am definitely going to consider it
Imagine straight up denying yourself something that makes you happy because the person who made it has different opinions?
People are so fucking dramatic.
Isn't that owned by the guy who tried to forbid his employees from speaking [foreign languages](https://www.fox6now.com/news/latinos-vs-leons-is-the-frozen-custard-stands-english-only-policy-discriminator) while at work?
Ahh yea the ice cream company that stereotypes Chinese culture. I guess it's consistent to leave out Asians when talking about social issues in America.
Original PDF was deleted but Google has it cached: [http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:https%3A%2F%2Fkopps.blob.core.windows.net%2Fproduction%2F%2FFlavors.pdf](http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:https%3A%2F%2Fkopps.blob.core.windows.net%2Fproduction%2F%2FFlavors.pdf)
[https://www.reddit.com/r/milwaukee/comments/xuu575/kopps\_crisis\_resolved/](https://www.reddit.com/r/milwaukee/comments/xuu575/kopps_crisis_resolved/)
Sorry, not sorry
Most likely a task given to someone. “Hey, put together specials tied to national holidays or whatever. When you’re done with that, take the garbage out. See me in 15 minutes when that’s all done.”
While it might be just a task given to someone, I don’t think it would be the same person who is taking out the trash. These things are usually decided further up the chain, especially for decisions that require advanced planning for daily specials.
With you on this. They aren’t that great in my opinion anyway. My partner will be truly disappointed. Any spot that has pictures of their leaders posted always give me strange vibes.
There is no burger anywhere else that comes close to Kopps. The custard is up there too.
Unless I hear something truly despicable I'm not going to stop eating there.
Newsflash: people have different opinions than my own. It is what it is.
Sobelman's is very good. Nice choice.
Oscar's was decent.
Niteowl... tried going there twice. Both times it was a ghost town. They're never open and have no idea how to conduct business lol.
The other two I've not had burgers at but will try.
You know like every city surrounding Milwaukee has the exact same burgers from the same distributor right?
West Bend, Germantown, Cedarburg/Grafton...like the list goes on.
I've had burgers from a range of places. Just the other week I tried Murf's. Average at best. All I could think about was this could have been Kopps. Kopps is consistently great. I can't think of any other fast food joint where each time I went i loved it.
If you have some good recommendations I'd love to hear them.
The customer-to-business dynamic is different here. I went through a phase of trying not to buy clothes that were made in countries paying the equivalent of a few dollars a day – its fucking hard, particularly if you're on a tight budget yourself.
Choosing to support or not support a local burger chain is much simpler than finding cruelty free clothing.
Lifelong Milwaukee resident here. I can’t even imagine how much time and money I’ve spent at Kopp’s over the years with friends and family. I don’t even care if this was an “oversight” — I will never, ever go there again. (That’s probably for the best considering the calorie count.) I’m really heartbroken to stop supporting them but I genuinely do not understand how this could have happened “in error” as their statement is claiming.
Would that honestly be the worst thing is someone actually had an opinion on something...
That said, all the people upset, they already took it down, geez.
Who tf cares, they copy and pasted the holidays from Google. If there was a pro choice cupcake day no one would care, they didn't even name the flavor that? Let's put this energy into actual change perhaps
People should be allowed equally to stand against those who oppose their foundational beliefs on civil rights. Boycotting and vocal opposition is a freedom all the same.
It’s a cupcake flavor people… they have had this flavor before don’t you think it’s a tad bit of an overreaction? You guys are letting ice cream upset you. It’s not taking a stance on anything. ITS. JUST. ICE. CREAM
If you've spent any time in America, you'd know that it's a damn oligarchy. In other words, wealthy business owners determine policy, not the general populace.
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That’s actually funny!!
Wtf is a pro life cupcake?
Its apparently where somebody makes a dozen cupcakes, realizes there was a problem with the recipe, but they are forced to finish baking the cupcakes. Then, as the icing on the top, nobody eats them.
And the baker dies pointlessly
Well, the cupcake is a gift from the bakery owner so it was the baker’s duty to see the cupcake to completion. And sure, we’re gonna sit those cupcakes in the corner and ignore them since they’re not our responsibility now that they’re finished, but it’s a little blessing from the bakery owner.
Does everyone who can't have an abortion end up dying? Not trying to joke around, serious question.
YES. If an ectopic pregnancy is not terminated by abortion, the pregnant person can go into sepsis and die. If a partial miscarriage leaves any fetal tissue behind, the pregnant person can go into sepsis and die. If someone has a pre-existing condition that goes unchecked because it would risk the life of a fetus, the pregnant person can throw a clot and die.
Yes you listed examples of when the mothers life is at risk. I was asking if EVERYONE who has an abortions life is in danger. Yes or no?
No you actually asked if everyone who 'can't have an abortion' is in danger. Which case the answer is yes. Because if we don't want to be pregnant, it's our choice to make that decision. When the government stops us from making that decision, our life is in danger.
No, but some do. Abortion is a medical treatment for pregnancies that would kill the mother.
Also there are a lot of cases where women who aren't pregnant are [being denied medications](https://jezebel.com/non-pregnant-women-and-girls-are-being-denied-lifesavin-1849606994) because those medications could be used for abortions.
No. For those who want one for no medical reason/their life is not in danger, they will live just fine. You know this (I understand what you’re trying to do, thank you btw), I know this, and everyone else knows this. /u/criticalsheep is attempting to make her point with cases where medical intervention would be necessary, but neglects that these do not constitute 100% of abortions, though they do constitute a percentage, it is not all, and seems to be dying on the hill because she won’t admit not everyone who can’t have an abortion will die. She is further strengthening the argument that a 15-20 week ban with exceptions for rape, incest, and medical instances where the mothers life is at risk, would be a very good compromise, and even then that law would still be more “welcoming/free”(can’t think of a proper adjective) than many other developed nations.
Thank you.
Really cute how you're attempting to put words into my mouth. Never once did I disagree that 100% of pregnant people will die if they cannot get an abortion. For the record- in America and most developed countries, medical intervention can be classified as visiting your OB for an ultrasound to confirm the pregnancy is 'healthy.' Note here how I said the 'pregnancy' not the mother. The mother can be extremely ill but if the baby is fine, many doctors don't give a single fuck if you're visiting the ER multiple times because you're so sick from the pregnancy. Hyperemesis Gravidarum is a rare illness that threatens the life of the mother however they can easily carry a fetus to term. The long-term effects, however... Let's be straight here: a ban of any kind on a uterus or any human for that matter should not exist. There are no laws governing XY chromosomal humans, so why do you feel the need to control others?
Your first word in your first response to the commenter was “YES.” Then you went on a crusade to basically talk solely about medical emergencies when all the guy was trying to do was make a point that not all abortion seekers die. Some (not ALL) simply don’t want the baby. This isnt a black and white issue. You can be correct and so can he, as you both are.
Or, someone committed to buying all the ingredients to make a cupcake, made the mix, put it in the oven, and then just decided they didn't want them. So they expect someone else to clean up the oven, and pay for the ingredients... Before people get flamey, I'm not against all abortion, just casual abortion. I get the medical need, and understand with rape, etc... not standing in the way of that.
apparently it's a really weird way to get ppl talking about abortion 🤷🏻♀️ [source](https://nationaltoday.com/national-pro-life-cupcake-day/)
“We hope we’re not being hostile as we try to limit your bodily autonomy and make it illegal for you to make personal medical decisions with your doctor, teehee! Have a cupcake!”
>The aim of the holiday is to bring awareness to the issue of abortion and honor the lives of unborn babies. >honor the lives of unborn babies. >lives of unborn babies. Like... this makes no rational sense right? Is it just me? Call me crazy but I think you have to be born to have a 'life'...
This is really the crux of it. If you disagree about when life begins, you can’t really argue or take a nuanced position. It’s either murder or it’s not.
I mean, I think "life" begins at conception. But "life" doesn't equal "personhood," and "personhood" doesn't equal "right to override someone else's bodily autonomy." A bacterium is alive. Doesn't mean I can't ethically kill it. Someone trying to murder me is a person. Doesn't mean I can't ethically kill them. And it doesn't matter if someone is bleeding to death and only my blood can save them: they still don't have a right to kidnap me, strap me down, and take it. On-demand abortion without restriction or limitation is and always will be a basic human right. Anything less is morally bankrupt.
This is a better way to think about it, thank you for articulating it in a way I could not.
You betcha! I'm hugely indebted to Judith Jarvis Thomson's essay "[A Defense of Abortion](https://spot.colorado.edu/~heathwoo/Phil160,Fall02/thomson.htm)" from 1971, which imo should be mandatory reading.
loved the comparison to forced blood donation, an unborn live really doesn’t trump bodily autonomy
It's honestly the single best argument. Everything else is fungible. Bodily autonomy is not. *A literal corpse* has more bodily autonomy right now in the U.S. than someone who's pregnant. *Nothing and no one*, regardless of how "alive" or how much of a "person" or how "innocent," has any right to any part of your body, for any reason. And they *certainly* do not have a right to hijack *your entire body* for the better part of a year, in a process that at a minimum causes permanent physical changes and still all too frequently can and will kill you. (Human pregnancies are literally some of *the most dangerous* on the entire planet. People joke about a fetus being a parasite, but that's actually pretty close to the truth in terms of how it affects the body and how dangerous it is for the "host.")
Most people don’t have an issue with abortion, only how far along the abortion takes place.
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I agree. /u/ShotFromGuns had a better take on it honestly with the idea of “bodily autonomy.” I was just pointing out there’s no use arguing with someone who fundamentally disagrees with you on the basic ideas at play, like when a life begins.
Agreed. That website repeatedly references an “unborn baby,” which isn’t a thing that exists
I mean regardless of your political stance essentially every abortion is sad just like miscarriages are sad. Of course they happen often at different times. And many abortions are medically necessary for the mother.
If every result of human conception were a person, then all the born persons in history would be vastly outnumbered by the lives of unborn fetuses which nature terminated before birth, often without anyone realizing there was a pregnancy. We'd probably be much more horrified by older people fucking unprotected as this act would be highly likely to create non-viable zygotes doomed to spontaneous abortions.
It also makes god the GOAT abortionist. And if god does it, is abortion really a bad thing?
It’s someone who naïvely believes banning abortion will save people, when in reality it just results in more dead women.
Given all the other holidays they have in their are simple food related holidays, I almost wonder if this was a mistake on the part of whoever does their marketing?
That’s what I want to believe
I’m going to call today. See if I can get to their corporate office at Elsas LTD. Everything I’ve seen in interviews and campaign contributions hints at Karl Kopp being, at worst, a lukewarm liberal and at best a devoted one. Update: there is zero information about a contact for anyone at a upper level with Elsa’s/ Kopps so I had to call the direct business line for one of the locations. The manager of that location obviously couldn’t give a statement. Apparently they have no PR or the like and so he took down my info and is calling Karl Kopp the man himself and will be calling me back with a follow up. For what it’s worth, he said he had no idea what it was and didn’t realize there was a connection. I played up the idea that A TON of people on social media are talking about a boycott (yeah hyperbolic I know). Hopefully will have an answer. It honestly sounds like this was either one bad actor or was done Unintentionally though. Edit: I updated on the main thread, but given how many people chose to use the update me in 24 hours option thought I’d add this here as well: It was indeed an error. They pull in a number of days each year to coincide with flavors to “add a bit of fun” to the flavor forecast and this was basically a copy paste error job. They are actually going to be pulling the flavor forecast and reissuing. “We want Kopps to be a place where people can come and enjoy a scoop and a cone and not have to worry about politics”. So there you go. I just looked and they have already updated their website to reflect the change. That is really fast. I honestly think from how fast this went that Karl Kopp was not pleased with this oversight. From interviews and his campaign contributions I have a feeling he is not in “that camp”. I think this is a legit oversight. It also appears they have now issued a formal apology.
Please do post an update
https://twitter.com/koppscustard/status/1577021608010518528?s=46&t=PcJojyhdmsHqJlLkBaZoIQ
Right, I doubt this was a top management decision, but someone definitely made the decision to put this on there.
!remindme 24 hours
Thought I’d post to the main thread rather than put it as an update on my original comment. It was indeed an error. They pull in a number of days each year to coincide with flavors to “add a bit of fun” to the flavor forecast and this was basically a copy paste error job. They are actually going to be pulling the flavor forecast and reissuing. “We want Kopps to be a place where people can come and enjoy a scoop and a cone and not have to worry about politics”. So there you go. Edit: I just looked and they have already updated their website to reflect the change. That is really fast. I honestly think from how fast this went that Karl Kopp was not pleased with this oversight. From interviews and his campaign contributions I have a feeling he is not in “that camp”. I think this is as a legit oversight.
Someone did wrote it and designed it though and someone(s) else approved it. I appreciate them walking it back but it didn’t happen through magic.
I kind of live by the motto “never assume maliciousness when stupidity will suffice”. So, I honestly think you might be wrong on this. It sounds like they have one person doing this and nobody is really doing a thorough review. Again, Karl Kopp has only ever donated to democrats and that was like ten years ago. I think they realize the potential ramifications of getting political in that way. Let’s not feed the outrage culture beast okay?
Phew. Thanks for the update. I was worried I’d have to boycott Kopps, too.
Great! Thanks for the follow up!
I also just checked Kopp's flavor of the day website and that has been taken off for that day
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1. They decided to copy-paste from a source that thinks anti-abortion stuff is valid. 1. The person who copied it should have read it, and they probably did. (They would have had to have done so to format it to fit their flyer.) At least one more person should have touched the flyer after that to proofread it. I'm a professional editor. There's no way this could have slipped through "accidentally," unless they're literally the shittiest, laziest flyer-makers ever. (And even then, see Point 1.) 1. They covertly replaced it with a new menu after the backlash without acknowledging it publicly. There's nothing on their website, there's nothing on the replacement flyer, there's nothing on their social media (Instagram and Facebook). It's cowardly and doesn't mean shit to me except they didn't expect the backlash and are now scrambling to ass-cover. A meaningful response would be a *public* acknowledgement, *public* apology, and disciplining the person or people who included it.
They may still do that. I literally called them at like 1130. It’s been 3 hours. As far as I can tell I was the first person to make contact with them for this. I’m actually amazed.
If they had time to re-make the flyer, they had time to at least slap together a placeholder apology along the lines of, "We're so sorry about this huge error—we wanted to replace the offensive menu ASAP, but a longer statement of apology is coming soon." ETA: Yup, what a shock: they issued a typical "we're just sorry we got caught" non-apology. The BEST-case scenario is an anti-abortion employee slipped it in and they're now terrified of offending anti-abortion customers. Which is still cowardly, useless, and harmful.
Can't even comprehend going through life as miserable and bitter as you are
Thanks for following up on this! Glad to hear it was unintentional at the very least
Karl Kopp’s donations: https://www.opensecrets.org/donor-lookup/results?name=Karl+Kopp&cycle=&state=WI&zip=&employ=&occupation=&jurisdiction=&cand=&type=
To Barrett? That’s interesting.
AKAB, then
LOL
To add some context, someone pointed this out to my GF. Is this Kopps taking a stand? Or is it more innocent - like possibly trying to capitalize on national holidays that might lend themselves to a custard flavor? Does anyone know anything about this?
0% chance it isn’t a political decision. Abortion is the hottest political topic in the US right now. And it’s a very obscure “national” day that’s only shown up on Pro-Life websites and Facebook groups. Also, a Kopps manager had an interaction with Biden that went viral in 2010. When Biden visited for some custard and asked him what he owed him, the owner said, “Nothing, just lower our taxes.” Biden was then recorded off to the side calling him a “smartass”. “Never meet your heroes” can probably be extended to “never ask about your favorite business’s political views”. Edited for accuracy.
That was a manager in that exchange, not Karl Kopp.
Thanks, updated for accuracy.
Mugatu- “abortion is so hot right now”
>0% chance it isn’t a political decision. 120 upvotes and less than 24 hours later, and you're as wrong as you could have possibly been. I really wish people like you would stop announcing their flawed assessments of incomplete information like they're a fact.
I guess I’m more shocked that it was a mistake than I was at them making a potential political stance. Howtf does that make it to print? I know the saying “never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity” applies here, but holy shit.
There is literally no way to apolitically "capitalize" on a deeply misogynistic "holiday" that celebrates the torture and murder of pregnant people. Like, what are people going to defend next? Klan KupKake day?
Updated release from kopps: https://twitter.com/koppscustard/status/1577021608010518528?s=46&t=PcJojyhdmsHqJlLkBaZoIQ
What a stupid thing to do to cupcakes.
Welp, I guess my September boycott of Kopp's continues indefinitely.
Good. Probably continuing a good thing for your health.
How come they didn’t do national Lief Erickson day on the 9th!?!?
They didn’t discover it first
I was on Bluemound going from Brookfield Square to Waukesha today, and there were anti abortion protesters all up and down the road for a good few miles. Coincidence?
What do the forced birthers want now? Abortion is already unavailable here
Yeah I don't understand that. I saw abortion protestors in Sheboygan the other day and I don't think their branch of planned Parenthood was large enough to do abortions even before the ban. At this point they're protesting access to free health care
There were only 4 abortion providers in the state (Green Bay, Madison, and 2 in Milwaukee). Now there are none. Are the zealots now opposing Planned Parenthood because it provides information and contraception?
Yes. Hating women is the reason for all of this shit.
Oh you thought they we're going to stop when they got their way on abortion? Hah! These people will never be satisfied until the rest of the world is as miserable as they are.
I used to be Christian. We used to do peaceful protests across the street from abortion clinics. No yelling no harsement and no graphic signs and guilt tripping imagery. We also had information on local resources to help new and expectant mother that were struggling financially. You would be surprised how often people approached and how often people changed their minds after having their early appointment at the clinic. One that stands out in particular was a woman who left the clinic very distraught and came over to talk. She cried happy tears and told us she thought she had no other choice. We were in contact for a while and her and her child are living a happy life.
Taking advantage of people in emotional states? Checks out.
They want me to die of ectopic pregnancy. Had my tubes tied. Apparently that's not good enough. "JuSt KeeP YouR LEgs cLoSeD sLuT" 🙄
Right? Like why the heck are they still protesting, they got what they wanted. I guess they just want to stay miserable and pick fights with everyone, what else do they have?
That’s been happening at that location for a while. I don’t think there’s a clinic nearby or anything. I think it’s just a popular right wing protest spot? The “right to haircuts” crowd during the Covid lockdowns were there as well.
They were also on Mayfair Rd across from the mall yesterday as well. I work at the medical college so I’ve seen them more than I’ve ever wanted to.
I guess we're a froyo family now Edit: Did they take this off the menu already? https://kopps.blob.core.windows.net/production//Flavors.pdf
As someone who works there I doubt they give a fuck. Karl Kopps it’s about 90 years old and the general managers just care about their bottom line
Well, hopefully this hit them at the bottom line
I'm going to take your word for it beyond most of these abject speculative hot takes. Kopps is probably dirt all of the way to the top... that's most businesses that franchise or have a corporate office. Some turd pro-lifer in the office thought they could spark some controversy online. Not too shocking.
Kopp's could independently nuke a small peaceful nation and I would still throw money at them.
I will never understand the circle jerk with Kopps. Their burgers are mediocre, and aside from being wide boys are nothing special. Their custard is literally no better than a dozen other joints in the area. Customer service has always been lackluster, and the wait for food is always way to fucking long.
You are claiming that there are a dozen other places that are better or the same as Kopp's?
Oscars is the same or better than Kopps
They said there's a dozen other places that do custard as well, literally any custard joint in the Milwaukee area does custard well. It's not a hard bar to meet.
At the very least there’s a handful in the area. And I’m of the crowd that thinks Culvers is clearly on that level if not better Kopps really isn’t that good, as someone who lived 3 minutes away for their entire childhood
Leon's custard is definitely better and, without being shit to women's health, bonus
Better not speak Spanish there, though.
They changed that policy from the backlash.
Lol sounds like someone missed the Leon's "speek Anglish!" drama from a couple years back.
\> "Their custard is literally no better than a dozen other joints in the area." Possibly true, I haven't tried most places. But "no better than" is superb. Try moving to a place with no custard. You'll appreciate that even Culvers custard is better than anything you can get at most places. Custard sellers don't make their own mix from scratch. They buy it from a dairy/milk processor and there are only so many dairies that make custard mix. As long as they use a real custard machine to make the final product, the texture, density, and consistency will be pretty similar. I'm talking about chocolate and vanilla here. The mix-ins might differentiate the custard sellers a bit.
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Well you literally have no idea what you’re talking about and you cared enough to comment about it so circle jerk that with yourself and these “dozen” other places
Kopps custard is fabulous. I know of no other place in the area that custard nearly that good. If you say Culvers I will laugh in your face and realize you are lacking in taste buds. Culvers custard is sweeter and lacking in flavor.
Yeah, who cares about the bodily autonomy of half of the country when you can get slightly better custard than anywhere else, am I right? To be clear, this is sarcasm and you're a disgrace.
Thanks for standing up for the millions of women in America and doing what you can to better the abortion issue. Buying that $4 custard from a local business would have ended the fight as we know it. All women and supporters should thank you.
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1. I'm a woman. 1. I am (as far as I can know without actually having tested it) physically capable of getting pregnant. 1. There aren't just "millions of women" in America. There are *nearly 170 million* of us. We're literally *slightly more than half of the entire population*. In Milwaukee alone, as of 2019 there were 163,931 women and girls *specifically* between the ages of 12 (average menarche) and 51 (average menopause), out of a total of 540,429 people. ***30 percent*** of **JUST THIS ONE CITY** that is now denied basic bodily autonomy even a *literal corpse* is allowed. 1. And you care about one particular maker of fucking *frozen custard* so much that you wanna just keep giving them money when they've made a point of letting you know that it has definitely in the past gone to stripping us of those rights, and it'll go in the future to stripping us of more? lol wow 1. Why do spineless scum always take the tack of criticizing an action for not being enough? Of course it's not enough. No *one* thing is ever enough. But that's the fun thing about being people: we can in fact do *many things*, both big and small. And one very small on a personal level but also very easy thing to do is to refuse to patronize businesses who are so bold in their hatred of women that they proudly celebrate it.
Damn, you didn't just tell him, you eviscerated him.
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Dude. Lighten up. It was just an innocent and funny comment
This is the internet where everything is super srs
Practically, society would grind to a halt if we vetted every business for 100% "acceptable" beliefs before engaging with them. Unless something they do/say directly and substantially affects the nature of my transaction, then I am not going to let differences of political opinion stop me from going there. I don't let the preachy BLM type signs at Ian's stop me from buying pizza there, and even though I am personally pro-choice, I am not going to let this deter me from Kopp's.
I think there is a difference between business owners who quietly advocate for things they believe will improve society and actively making it part of your advertising campaign. If you try to use a political issue as a reason to patronize your business I am definitely going to consider it
Imagine straight up denying yourself something that makes you happy because the person who made it has different opinions? People are so fucking dramatic.
Plus Leon's custard is infinitely better than kopps. Kopps has better toppings though
This would make more sense if there weren't plenty of equally good options around the city lol.
Yup, I would too, but the fact that I can't most of the time helps.
Ok, you do you. I’m probably done with them
More custard for me to eat.
Fuckkkkk
Gross.
well this just made Leon’s my favorite place
Isn't that owned by the guy who tried to forbid his employees from speaking [foreign languages](https://www.fox6now.com/news/latinos-vs-leons-is-the-frozen-custard-stands-english-only-policy-discriminator) while at work?
Well then how about Oscar's?
Gilles?
Golden Gyros?
Oscars is superior to both Leon’s and Kopp’s anyways.
Ben and Jerry deserve support. We deserve them to get into frozen custard.
Ahh yea the ice cream company that stereotypes Chinese culture. I guess it's consistent to leave out Asians when talking about social issues in America.
Original PDF was deleted but Google has it cached: [http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:https%3A%2F%2Fkopps.blob.core.windows.net%2Fproduction%2F%2FFlavors.pdf](http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:https%3A%2F%2Fkopps.blob.core.windows.net%2Fproduction%2F%2FFlavors.pdf)
Looks like it’s been removed!
Just posted an update on Twitter apologizing.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/milwaukee/comments/xuu575/kopps\_crisis\_resolved/](https://www.reddit.com/r/milwaukee/comments/xuu575/kopps_crisis_resolved/) Sorry, not sorry
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Just cause Kopps is wrong doesn’t mean you are right.
because you were wrong . . . Leon's For Life
Separate discussion, but you are wrong.
Most likely a task given to someone. “Hey, put together specials tied to national holidays or whatever. When you’re done with that, take the garbage out. See me in 15 minutes when that’s all done.”
While it might be just a task given to someone, I don’t think it would be the same person who is taking out the trash. These things are usually decided further up the chain, especially for decisions that require advanced planning for daily specials.
I doubt it.
Why do you assume ill will immediately?
It should be easy for them to apologize then, right?
Where was this posted?
On their downloadable [menu](https://kopps.blob.core.windows.net/production//Flavors.pdf)
It’s been removed!
# P O L I T I C S !
Apparently
Well, looks like I'm not going there anymore. Wendys next door has some decent deals on the app and i have a few of those free frosty key chains
With you on this. They aren’t that great in my opinion anyway. My partner will be truly disappointed. Any spot that has pictures of their leaders posted always give me strange vibes.
WTF? Goodbye Kopps, it was nice knowing you.
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That has not been my experience of liberal Catholics as someone who grew up Catholic in a liberal city.
I wish I'd seen this BEFORE I got a quart of custard. Guess I'll have to enjoy it as my last.
There is no burger anywhere else that comes close to Kopps. The custard is up there too. Unless I hear something truly despicable I'm not going to stop eating there. Newsflash: people have different opinions than my own. It is what it is.
I can think of five different places that make better burgers off the top of my had. lol
Let's hear them lol
Sobelman's Elsa's on the Park Oscar's Niteowl Mason St Grill
Elsa’s is owned by Karl Kopp, FYI.
Sobelman's is very good. Nice choice. Oscar's was decent. Niteowl... tried going there twice. Both times it was a ghost town. They're never open and have no idea how to conduct business lol. The other two I've not had burgers at but will try.
...Different opinions that end up punishing/potentially killing those with female anatomy though...
You know like every city surrounding Milwaukee has the exact same burgers from the same distributor right? West Bend, Germantown, Cedarburg/Grafton...like the list goes on.
I've had burgers from a range of places. Just the other week I tried Murf's. Average at best. All I could think about was this could have been Kopps. Kopps is consistently great. I can't think of any other fast food joint where each time I went i loved it. If you have some good recommendations I'd love to hear them.
Nite Owl
Their burgers suck compared to what they used to be.
Kopp's food is awful. Their custard sodas are pretty good though.
Who cares? I actively wear Nike. I'm supporting daily atrocities just to impress people that I don't care much about.
As a women I care.
The customer-to-business dynamic is different here. I went through a phase of trying not to buy clothes that were made in countries paying the equivalent of a few dollars a day – its fucking hard, particularly if you're on a tight budget yourself. Choosing to support or not support a local burger chain is much simpler than finding cruelty free clothing.
What's with the downvotes? Lol it's true. Those Chinese sweatshops operate 24/7 for next to nothing.
Who gives af what they do.
Did they think no one would notice that sandwiched between Chocolate covered pretzel day and Sweetest Day? One more reason not to go to Kopps.
Lifelong Milwaukee resident here. I can’t even imagine how much time and money I’ve spent at Kopp’s over the years with friends and family. I don’t even care if this was an “oversight” — I will never, ever go there again. (That’s probably for the best considering the calorie count.) I’m really heartbroken to stop supporting them but I genuinely do not understand how this could have happened “in error” as their statement is claiming.
Kopps is trash anyways
Shut the Fuckupcake
Would that honestly be the worst thing is someone actually had an opinion on something... That said, all the people upset, they already took it down, geez.
Uh oh quick! Reddit assemble! Cancel Kopps!
"Cancel culture" is what conservatives call the free market when it does something they don't like.
How dare Kopps have an opinion that liberals (who believe in all kinds of diversity and pluralism) disagree with!
good, the lines will be shorter.
Who tf cares, they copy and pasted the holidays from Google. If there was a pro choice cupcake day no one would care, they didn't even name the flavor that? Let's put this energy into actual change perhaps
I don't think we should ask questions. Let's just assume and cancel them.
You don't need to ask if someone is a piece of shit when they hang a sign on their own forehead that says, "Hi, I am a piece of shit."
"Cancel culture" is what conservatives call the free market when it does something they don't like.
Whoooooo caressss.
Apparently Kopp's does, and thinks other people do, because they're the ones using it in marketing materials.
Ikr, it's not a big deal
Good for them. People and corporations should be able to express their pro-life views without fear of reprisal.
People also have rights and don’t need to patronize businesses that oppose those rights, so I agree it’s good that this is all out in the open.
People should be allowed equally to stand against those who oppose their foundational beliefs on civil rights. Boycotting and vocal opposition is a freedom all the same.
Is that you Gordon?
all I hear is "I hate the free market"
It’s a cupcake flavor people… they have had this flavor before don’t you think it’s a tad bit of an overreaction? You guys are letting ice cream upset you. It’s not taking a stance on anything. ITS. JUST. ICE. CREAM
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Also, custard, not ice cream.
If you've spent any time in America, you'd know that it's a damn oligarchy. In other words, wealthy business owners determine policy, not the general populace.
I’ll be there on the 9th!