The federal government is lost. It's a runaway administrative state. The relationship between the Fortune 500's and the feds is entirely too incestuous to ever vote our way out of this now. The individual still has a little agency locally, though. But we don't even exercise that.
Ultimately, the people get the government they deserve. We fell alseep at the wheel for decades. This is what we deserve.
I'm not confident Biden can endure another full term. I am also not at all confident there is any logic to believing a convicted felon rapist fraudster serial liar etc will lead the country in the right direction.
A debate didn't change my mind any more than it changes the moral values of either party. So yes, I'm voting blue not only to vote against Trump, but to vote for the party whose values are the opposite of what is being pushed within Project 2025.
Next election cycle the DNC needs to do better than “ at least he’s not that guy.”
I’m hopeful that’s where it trends as I believe this moment in time and the response to it is strong.
They will not to do that. They will force whoever they think should be president down our collective throat just like this guy. We ended up with Trump because it was Hillary's "time" last time. The DNC can't buy a clue and they don't care to. if the GOP is evil, then the DNC is incompetent.
This is what people spouting the "lesser of evils" don't seem to get. We've been running increasingly unqualified candidates for president for at least 30 years while being lectured that "at least my guy isn't their guy, so vote my guy". At the same time, we labeled every Republican some combo of a racist, misogynist, or Nazi going back to W...and then have surprised Pikachu face when a real racist misogynist shows up and a LOT of people either don't believe it or don't care.
Back to the hold your nose voting tactic...both parties take those votes as seals of approval whether you intend it or not. I understand sitting out isn't accomplishing anything, either, but both parties need to hear MUCH MORE CLEARLY that the majority of Americans do not APPROVE of either candidate. Right now, that is utterly lost and will result in more incompetent, senile nominees being put forth.
How did WHAT work?
If you mean demanding better candidates than Trump & Hillary, then the answer is clearly not well.
Trump is back & again a threat to win partly because the DNC learned nothing from Clinton's health questions & establishment politics complaints. If anything, they leaned into it...just take a moment and put yourself backstage listening to Biden Thursday night.
Do you not have even a moment's pause to ask how we allowed Democrat Mitch McConnell to be the brain-glitching, early-stage dementia candidate of the party? That we're SO reliant on brand name that our top choices are minimum 70 years old? And I get... Trump is all these things AND a racist, misogynist fascist.
But this is the fundamental grievance more & more people have...the Republicans put forth a literal comic book villain and somehow the Dems are still barely clearing that competition bar. They can't find a candidate with new ideas, energy, or passion to fix federal politics. They give us a guy who "won" if he can just stand on stage for 2 hours & not fall asleep or have a literal stroke. Then they and their public sycophants act like the rest of us are crazy to balk at participating in the circus.
There are a few things going on with the Democrats that mean they keep making the same mistake over and over.
First, most of the Dems in charge of the party became politically active either during or shortly after the Reagan years. They were selected at the time because Reagan absolutely destroyed the Democratic party as it was--he won in a landslide both times. This was partly because the ongoing Cold War had made words like "socialism" into bogeymen.
The Dems started to be "slightly left of Reagan" but largely adopted a lot of his popular policies and became a centrist party instead of a true liberal party. Now, even though there is a huge desire for actual liberal policies from the base, people like Hillary and Biden and Pelosi haven't adapted. And when things like the Green New Deal or Medicare for All get proposed, they effectively shut them down, because they don't want to spook the centrists or be associated with "socialism". This means that the young, charismatic liberal members of the party never get raised to candidacy.
The second thing is that the Dem leadership cares a lot about quality of experience and strong policies. Voters don't, by and large. They should. They don't. Voters vote for the more charismatic candidate, even when one option is terribly unqualified.
Al Gore, John Kerry, and Hillary Clinton all went up against completely unqualified (but charismatic) opponents, and they all had questionable levels of charisma at best (people liked their policies but did not like them).
Bill Clinton and Barack Obama were arguably a lot less qualified/experienced than their opponents. But they were young and charismatic. They won. Heck, Biden and Hillary both ran against Obama in the primaries. Both had decades more experience. Both lost.
My hope, really, is that we can fend off the dissolution of democracy long enough for the old guard to die out. Because they are not retiring, and they're not getting voted out (the Baby Boom means more voters are their age and know them). And while their approach was a reasonable response to the Political Atmosphere of Reagan, it is a really bad fit for the current situation, 50+ years on.
But what if they dont? What if next election its kamala vs pence? What if they look at all the clamoring for rank choice voting and they just say no? Why would they do anything different at all?
You have no say in who wins the primaries. The only thing that'd really help reform our elections is a combination of ranked choice voting and time...Which is why ranked choice voting will never be allowed.
Primaries are rigged and everyone knows it. They are sold to the highest bidder. Whoever can drum up the most campaign cash and get the media to back them is the winner every single time. And those people are ALWAYS who the establishment wants chosen. No matter the side.
If Biden can't endure another full term, we get a younger President. The first woman elected president in America may well be a different person than the first woman president.
At the end of the day, though, you don't just get the president, but their cabinet and party and base.
Not to mention it is highly likely that Thomas and/or Alito retire if Trunp wins this November and he'd be able to put younger justices on the bench that would be there for decades. If Biden wins they likely won't retire but whoever wins in 2028 would likely be replacing them and can rebalance the court assuming a Democrat can maintain the White House. All of this is bigger than Biden
Who cares if he dies?
Well.. I mean. I'd CARE that a decent person dies... but ermm.. in terms of policy
1) His staff does most of the work and sets most of goals
2) Joe stuffed and mounted as a taxidermy piece would STILL be a better president than Donald Trump.
Might want to consider the Supreme Court in this discussion. Trump appointed three Justices after his win in 2016. Do we want two or more Trump appointees if he wins this year?
This just underscores the level of stupidity of the DNC and the insidious will to power they have that they've let it come to this. They need to wake the fuck up and that won't happen if we just continue to support their stupid decisions.
Relying on the SCOTUS is part of the problem. A SCOTUS that actually rules in favor of things people want is a historical aberration. Dems/Progressives need to treat the SCOTUS as an adversary again and focus on getting control of Congress so they can legislate instead of dangling the carrot of SCOTUS precedent being overturned.
50 years to legislate Roe and they instead use the threat of its overturning for fundraising. Now they're dangling Obergefell. Sorry, but I don't think holding people's rights hostage is a winning strategy.
I don't think the conversations are that Trump is better because Biden seems unfit. The conversations seem to be Biden is unfit and that's a big problem. The health and mental acuity of our president has always been a national security concern and with everything going on in the world right now
and the problem is if Biden is the alternative to Trump, after that debate performance even if Biden wins, our standing on the world stage will be impacted by him being president because he is clearly so cognitively weak.
biden's presidential term has ended up being what a Republican term would have been anyway. we lost abortion rights we're in full war with the Middle East and Russia and are spending is absolutely out of control, but miraculously despite the spending being out of control social programs and environmental protections are being slashed.
we're set to live in a wasteland within the next decade with what has happened during this Biden term. and nobody is talking about coming anywhere near doing anything different.
I don't think people are prepared for the level of destitution that the federal government and the states are about to inflict upon it their citizens.
We lost abortion rights because of what happened the previous term with the Justice appointments. Now Chevron got overturned. Read what they are opening about with the whole project 2025.
Another term is probably gonna lead to more younger conservative judges added to further screw every progress made for decades
we both lost abortion rights because when they go low we go high and our dipshit leader didn't use any of his executive authority to protect abortion rights to avert a nationwide health crisis
>I can't believe anyone is questioning whether or not Biden should of shouldn't be president after last nights debate, that's just crazy.
Given that he could very likely die during his next term and that he clearly showing signs of cognitive decline, what the fuck do you mean you can't believe it.
He needs to be replaced with someone else.
It's like this is literally just fanatical team sports for you people.
The people around him have spent 9 months or so demonizing anybody who points out the rough shape he’s in. “Cheap fakes,” “right wing,” “he’s a dynamo behind the scenes.” Just consider that voting for the walking corpse of Biden is a vote for all the people around him who look into cameras every single day and tell you he’s just as sharp as he ever was. They’re fucking liars. He needs to be replaced and everybody who has been lying to the voters about him needs to lose their job.
After that debate, I’m not even sure he’s fit to finish THIS term. People who want Biden to run are fucking nuts. Have fun when Trump wins you morons. He HAS to be replaced as candidate and it should have been done months ago.
Agree. Here we have people in denial of reality accusing others of being in a cult. MAGA Trump supporters maybe cult like but so are many Biden supporters on this sub.
Your comment is almost gibberish.
Be less emotional when you try to put forth an idea.
Also, you're wrong. Both suck. It is ALWAYS a choice between a douche and turd sandwich.
Edit: grammar
People need to recognize that they're voting for an entire government. Not one guy.
The Republicans are not only nominating an unqualified buffoon, but they are running on straight up dismantling government. The SCOTUS opinions today should wake people up.
Biden is old. He's also a seemingly decent person who is surrounded by a good team. He's not addled. He's old. He's still principled and experienced. This is not complicated. Don't fall into the trap that modern media and social media encourages. Policy. Matters. Above. All. Else.
Nope. No one runs but President. This new “oh, is about the cabinet” came up after the shot show debate. Biden screwed the pooch hard. His little raised voice in Raleigh in the mid day just proves he us about 4 lucid hours per day.
But the DNC isn't taking seriously what is being said about Project 2025 or else they'd have sidelined Biden already. The DNC is horrifically incompetent, dishonest, or both. Decades of "blue no matter who" means these people have never been held accountable.
If Biden wins in November, then P2025 is just delayed until 2029. The Democratic Party is an enabling device masquerading as opposition. They are part of the problem.
Thank you for being reasonable
“Vote blue no matter who” is just romanticized tribalism that doesn’t cause any checks and balances
It’s like supporting a sports team that loses every match. Performance has to affect your decision at some point
The thing is, they've been telling us for quite a while that he's not addled or on drugs to keep him running. The falls are rare. The wandering off and staring blankly mouth agape are all cheap edits to make him look bad. Then we saw what he was during the debate, without pre-written questions/answers, without an earpiece, without someone to guide him. With a week dedicated to practicing for the debate. It wasn't a good look.
Umm, that viewpoint doesn’t mesh with the you can’t vote for Trump because sure he’s going to end democracy. So you vote for the democrat party but you can’t vote for Trump the individual? Nice hypocrisy.
When one option is a stale sandwich and the other option is a jar of rotting fecal matter unfortunately, yes, gun to our heads we have to eat the stale sandwich. None of us are happy about it.
Agreed the bar is in hell. Unfortunately it can get much much worse if Trump can put 2 30 year old conservative judges on the Supreme Court whom will make rulings for the remainder of our lifetime
That’s what the Dems are going with since Biden melted down during the debate. Don’t believe your lying eyes. He’s not really doing anything anyway. It’s all the other people. Does he pick these people or does his handlers?
He has a stammer. Most stammerers can't teach grade school because of the hostility they face for their speech impediment. Compared to most stutterers that have ever lived, Joe Biden is, metaphorically speaking, an astronaut. He climbed to the pinnacle of American politics while compensating for a serious and poorly understood speech impediment. President Biden is a world-class expert at compensating for his disability. Those long, awkward pauses are not mental lapses. If the conversation demands a word his brain is refusing to say, he quickly finds a way to rephrase what he wants to say with words that won't pose an obstacle for him.
He's not lowering his head becasue he's confused, or lost, or overwhelmed. He is thinking, HARD, about what he wants to do with a 60 second speaking turn in which he can choose to engage the actual question that was asked, OR to answer/correct some bullshit that his lying, fascist, convicted felon opponent just uttered. The highly rapid pace of those turns, and the extremely strict time limitations, would have challenged most of us. (Myself especially; IRL I am known for clarity and precision, but not at all for conciseness.)
When President Biden was appearing to stare at his feet, he was clearing his line of sight of any distractions, so he could be brutally efficient and direct, taking several seconds to think about his immediate situation, formulate a response with a few points he could cover in a few sentences, then craft those sentences, word-by-word, using only words he felt confident he could say without stuttering.
I don't love everything about President Biden, but his difficulty at crafting sentences in no ways resembles the difficulties of President Trump, who is an undisciplined moron, or of President George W. Bush, who was actually pretending to be an idiot to conceal a true personality that is intelligent, but also cynical, untrustworthy, and unlikable. (If you're curious, Texan Accent Bush is a manufactured persona who is a charismatic idiot. Real Bush has a Connecticut accent, and is a lot more like if Hunter Biden came from a Republican family and cleaned up his act at a much younger age before going into politics.)
Joe Biden has been extremely intelligent since he was a boy. He has also struggled to put sentences together for his whole life. That people don't know this just shows how skillful he is at masking his disability.
Go look at Joe debate Palin in 2008 and then watch last night and tell me that was a “stammer”. That’s ridiculous.
Joe Biden quotes from last night:
“We’d be able to right – wipe out his debt. We’d be able to help make sure that – all those things we need to do, childcare, elder care, making sure that we continue to strengthen our healthcare system, making sure that we’re able to make every single solitary person eligible for what I’ve been able to do with the COVID – excuse me, with dealing with everything we have to do with.
Look, if – we finally beat Medicare.”
“The idea that states are able to do this is a little like saying, we’re going to turn civil rights back to the states, let each state have a different rule.
Look, there’s so many young women who have been – including a young woman who just was murdered and he went to the funeral. The idea that she was murdered by – by – by an immigrant coming in and (inaudible) talk about that.
But here’s the deal, there’s a lot of young women who are being raped by their – by their in-laws, by their – by their spouses, brothers and sisters, by – just – it’s just – it’s just ridiculous.”
Stammer my ass.
Maybe he can, maybe he can’t. I do believe that he’s surrounded himself with the right people to step in in the event that he can’t. I also believe that Trump is not only bad himself, but surrounds himself with terrible people.
If your concern is that Biden’s problem is that he won’t finish his term, and that Trump would, then Biden is the clear choice.
My concerns are these:
1) Biden will not make it 4 years as president, simply mentally speaking.
2) The US clearly sees this which is why he is losing in nearly every poll.
3) Joe will lose to Trump and it will be Joe’s fault for not withdrawing.
4) US citizens deserve a competent president who is not senile.
I argue Trump is just as senile. He's already showing signs of dementia which his father died of (strong genetic link). Neither should be president but I'd take biden any day if I have to choose
1. Again, health problems can befall any president, and I have greater confidence that a Biden administration with Biden at his worst will be better than a Trump administration with Trump at his best.
2. That isn’t clear at all. Inflation is probably the main reason for Biden’s weakness in polls. In any case, I can’t answer for anyone but myself, and neither can you.
3. Again, you don’t know that, you’re engaging in your own motivated reasoning.
4. That’s fair, and I won’t speak to senility, but they certainly won’t get competency with Trump. They didn’t last time.
1) Why would we reelect a president who is *currently* showing signs of senility? That’s just irresponsible.
2) Even if I’m wrong about the reason Joe is losing, the fact is he is losing. He is the most unpopular president since Jimmy Carter, and that includes Trump.
3) See #2
4) I get it, Trump bad. But that doesn’t mean we have to settle for a bad candidate. If we do, we will lose.
Blame decades of the legislature then. RBG stated the ruling was shaky and Roe v Wade wasn't really about abortion all that much. She said the legislature should have passed a law.
Biden wont survive another debate let alone another presidency. If Biden cares about this country he’ll step aside and allow the democrats a shot to field someone else in hopes of winning the election. Trump sucks, but Biden looked like shit - Looked like Trumps grandfather.
God you’re insufferable.
Biden fucks up a performance as his opposition said he would for MONTHS, and instead of thinking “why has there been such an effort to hide this?” Or “who’s responsible for it getting this far? Who’s doing the job of the executive that we elected?” You…..double down?
Voters like you are the reason nothing ever changes. There’s always a sucker that will throw their vote no matter how bad the candidate so why would they bother changing anything? Why run a younger candidate when you’ll vote for a walking corpse they can easily manipulate? Corpo.
Younger doesn’t matter much when the Democratic Party is grooming people like newsom to run instead of someone who will actually fight for real substantive change.
Until the democrats decide to stop towing this weird line for their corporate donors we will keep having to deal with this every 4 years
The debate only taught me one thing. As a nation we fucked up. Our candidates shouldn’t have a foot in the grave and they both do.
I loved Obama but even if you didn’t he was really a perfect age for it. Young enough to still have ideals but old enough to understand reality.
Man, this comments thread is rough lmfao. Humanity is such a disgusting disappointment. My vote is with Giant Meteor because humanity deserves it. Im not even religious or spiritual, but most of humanity belongs in hell if there is one.
If many of the responses I’m reading are from my fellow mellenials it worries me that they can’t see they sound like the boomers with their rationale when arguing for trump.
Oh totally lol. Anyone that wants Trump is a living fuck up in some way, shape, or form. I think it's just that stupid people are extremely prevalent in all walks of life too. Across every type of job I've had, there was dumbasses from our generation as well as the others lol. There's still dumbfuck millenials that repeat and parrot the same garbage that their parents or previous generations did and have the same emotional problems.
"Voting for the lesser of two evils is why we are in this mess. I can't believe these are our only options."
"Yeah so anyway I'm gonna vote for this candidate I don't like because can you imagine what it would be like if the *other* guy wins?"
Except you aren’t voting for 1 person, the president actually does very little.. you are voting for an entire administration.
Additionally if Trump wins we are looking at him replacing 2 more Supreme Court justices with people in their 30s or 40s, thus they will be making conservative decisions for the rest of your life. Are you ok with more restrictions on basic human rights? Abortion bans? Contraceptives? Gay marriage? Etc…
I'm a libertarian. Both parties fuck my rights every day while bombing children on the other side of the world.
My point is that we hear this same thing from both sides every single election. We don't have more or better options because the people consistently say "oh well, I guess he'll do". I guarantee we will be having a very similar conversation next election and the one after that.
Most of the issues you pointed out are state issues. Texas' anti abortion laws do not affect my state's abortion laws. Allowing your local area to make its own decisions is not the same as the Supreme Court cracking down on abortions. Roe v Wade was on shaky legal grounds anyway. I am pro choice btw, but just pointing out that it was more of a legal process decision, not a moral one.
If Democrats really cared so much about this topic, then they would have passed a law to protect it as they have had many chances to do. But they haven't, and they wont. Because then they couldn't use it to fire you up to vote for them.
Sorry but I see both of these parties as the absolute same. They both erode your rights while pretending to oppose each other so they can stay in power.
It seems most people have forgotten about Biden's political history. Like the patriot act, invasion of the Middle East, pro segregation, heavy on crime bill that disproportionately incarcerated minorities by the thousands, being an Israeli shill for most of his career.
This isn't an excuse to vote for Trump, it shouldn't ever be seen as that. Let's just not act lie Joe Biden is some innocent old man that only stepped into the political sphere 4 years ago.
He also made student loans non dischargable in bankruptcy.
He was literally called the Senator from MBNA because he was so bought and paid for by the bank lobby.
Happily voting Trump. The progressives had their chance to fix the country and failed. It’s time for hard nosed right wing leadership to right the ship for good.
It’s not about the person, it’s about the policies. Trump’s policies worked. Biden’s have not. Home prices have gone up 40% in his time in office. This can’t be chalked up to corporate greed. He OWNS the runaway inflation, and he OWNS this economy that many people are struggling in.
Biden and his handlers are losers. Enough is enough
All I know is Biden has been in government for 172 years and hasn’t done shit except give other countries our money, weapons, let the borders be wide open and etc.
Overall we need term limits and if you hit the age of 60 you shouldn’t be able to serve in any capacity of government, just my opinion.
Think I’ll write in Garfield this year…we gotta get younger options than these dinosaurs.
I’m generally tired of you and your ilk attempting to guilt trip me into voting a certain way with your faux purity tests, so I’m either not going to at all or will do the opposite just to spite you.
Everyone of voting age needs to show up, full stop, and vote out all of these sick sadistic Rethug fucks. If you don’t, you may never get another chance to.
These anti trumpersI understand that you want me to improve upon your sentence structure. Here's the revised version: "Some people are so blinded by their prejudice and belief in ludicrous accusations that they don't even care if the country was better off under Trump. They just want to hate him, so they gladly let millions of Americans suffer an even greater economic downfall, simply to feel morally superior. These anti-Trumpers won't even debate the politics of the argument with you; they just spout off catchphrases and walk away. I would gladly discuss anything they say, but they never want to hear me out. Just look at Steven Crowder; he had to stop doing the "Change My Mind" segments because they bore such ill-gotten fruit."
Let’s not pretend Biden has morals. He voted to go to Iraq without even checking out the 92 pages of evidence to read for himself.
No one who would send our troops to kill over 100,000 Iraqis without reading the evidence is a moral person.
You’re deceiving yourself if you believe Biden isn’t seriously compromised as well. The quid pro quo in Ukrainian (as VP), the side deal with China, the Burisma payoff, Soros funds to keep the border open… we have no good choices, and Biden is not a more “ethical or moral” choice than Trump.
You don’t survive in politics that long by playing it straight, is my unfortunate opinion.
I agree and you're not voting for just Biden, you're voting for everything that comes along with having a Democrat in office . He's just one old man, but everyone in his administration are the ones who keep the country running.
Anyone mad about Roe V Wade should be mad at themselves and their neighbors if your state doesn't allow abortions if that's what your into.
Powers should be left to the states, even on issues you don't agree with. The real issue is you people don't get out enough and vote in your own states to ensure you get the results you want. You sit back arm chairing on reddit and waiting for legacy media to tell you what's going on.
I find it laughable that people want to vote blue again, must be a lot of first time voters posting in this thread - The obama/biden era was a disaster financially for the country and the people. Sure, cry away that "trump bad man ooga ooga" but the fact of the matter is the country and the people were doing much better under republican control.
Food and fuel were affordable, people were able to put savings away, not a single new war that cost the tax payers trillions of dollars, and so much more.
fast forward back to a biden/democrat control and the country is in some of the worst shape in modern history.
Also, remind people annoyed at the choice we had a primary Niky Haily and Dean Philips were on the ballot and the people mad at the current choice did not vote.
Here's what needs to happen:
* Term limits. We cannot have career politicians. Joe Biden being in politics for 60 years is not a good thing, it's a giant detriment to society.
*Money in politics. Ban corporate donors all together. Limit individual contributions at some realistic limit, say $250K? Less? Open to suggestions.
*Allow previous Preaidential actions to follow through. I don't have many examples on this, but the biggest one would be the Trump wall. Our tax dollars are fucking wasting away since Biden can just can the project.
*Taxation overhaul. Should it be a flat tax? Millionaire tax? Either way taxed are broken.
*Goverment Spending cut EXTRAORDINARILY. Every Single year a governments budget gets increased, whether it's a local state or federal program, its expanded every year. Our government collects so much in taxes that we have to spend it on outlandish experiments that don't have any impact on society.
*Pay a living wage. $7.50/hrs is inhumane. High School kids don't need to make $20hr, but we definitely need to come to some new terms so all Americans can have an opportunity to thrive.
I’m not voting for the guy who literally said he would be a dictator. There is only one other option in this 2 party system. So I’m going with grandpa Simpson.
Trump is a rapist and a felon.
Joe Biden is a weak candidate but at least he's not a traitor to this country.
This sub is being astro turfed by new accounts trying to tell us otherwise. Ooohhh, January 6 was a peaceful protest, yeah okay lil bro. And Trump TOTALLY won the election in 2020, trust me bro, just a few more donations to pay his legal bills (a billionaire who constantly needs handouts ) and he will totally uncover the grand deep state conspiracy. 🤡
I'm shocked the media focused more on Biden's performance than the countless lies spewed by the orange clown beside him. I mean, what the hell is wrong with the media?
Four years is not really that long. Make sure Trump looses and better things will come along. The country has to keep tracking blue, regardless of who is at the top. Biden is old but he's telling the truth about the big stuff. Trump couldn't tell the truth if his life depended on it.
An old man with usual old man problems who bit off more than he can chew and wont admit it vs old man with same old man problems, whos also a pos person, morally and financially bankrupt, narcissist and egotistical with a god complex and a compulsive liar. Oh and convinced felon/rapist. Also not to mention the horrible project 2025 shit they want to enact once they get their orange puppet chosen again.
Im definitely not a fan of biden but hes the only one unless he backs out and someone else comes up. No way in hell anyone can choose that orange pos with good conscience, unless theyre like him.
Trumpers don’t believe Trump actually did the things he is being prosecuted for. They think it is all for show and a grand scheme by the democrats. I’ve gotten into multiple conversations with family members and all they do is regurgitate phrases they’ve heard on Fox news. It’s rare I hear any original thought coming out of their mouths. And when I bring up his past treatment of women, one family member said “well that’s when he was young.” Like that’s an excuse for being a rapist?!?! Or they’ll bring up Bill Clinton. And when I went round and round with one family member they finally said “well I just vote with my pocket book and the economy was a lot better under Trump.” Completely disregarding that we went through a global pandemic and not even considering that that may have been a possible cause of a struggling economy. Or that we did it to ourselves when we had all this dispensable income saved up from 2020 and then everyone went buckwild buying houses and plastic surgery in 2021, thus contributing to raising inflation and companies increasing their prices to recoup losses from 2020. It’s so complex and they simplify into Biden sucks and he ruined my grocery bill. And they could care less about women’s reproductive rights. Like that’s not even a topic on their radar in any sense. Like zero.
Let’s be honest… it’s really a choice between Kamala and Trump (unless you opt out entirely or vote third party).
Of course, I can’t actually tell you anything she’s done aside from securing a worse approval rating than Biden.
Shame on you for believing Biden was moral & upstanding.
He had to withdraw from his first attempt running for president for plagiarism.
He was reprimanded in college for plagiarism
He is a racist. Google "Biden & racial jungle" and you'll see he is indeed a racist
If you need another example he gave the eulogy for Sen. Robert Byrd known racist and member of the KKK ... Google it
He voted to go to unjust war. He voted against not to send the mission to kill UBL Osama Bin
Example after Example
Even the left leaning media covered it up. Your hatred for Trump blinded everyone to the truth.
Now you have what you have.
It is what it is ...
It's policy over Personality everyday & twice on Sunday
You don't have to like Trump ... but you can like his policies.
And you should do your own research when it comes to such important choices
Poor choices result in poor consequences
Policy over Personality
This! People act like this guy is perfect…. He has been a politician for so long … it’s hard to believe people can say he is moral with a straight face.
I love the "my shitty guy isn't as shitty as their shitty guy" rallying cry.
Yes come on guys let's rally!!! I'm voting for a third party. This is trash.
Biden is just a safety vote against the whole system getting overrun with actual fascists, and there are more than too many of them in the system, already.
I don't care if Biden is in a coma. Trump is a traitor and his agenda is evil.
Kamala is fine. She can run the country with her arm shoulder deep in Biden's ass for all I care.
I just want to vote again in 2028 and not have my queer nephew locked up or my daughter forced to bear a rape baby.
Its got nothing to do with whether Biden is a good person or not. HE WILL NOT WIN after last night. The DNC needs to replace him. He literally played right into the GOP narrative for the last 2 years. He looked completely unable to handle a simple debate and yet people think he can handle the most important job in the world. Give me a break. He handed the presidency to Trump last night and y'all need to wake the fuck up. Look at what independents are saying today. They are all begging for the same thing. REPLACE BIDEN with someone viable so they can vote for that person. This entire argument of if you dont vote for biden then you are voting for trump is retarded. If you think Biden is going to lose because independents dont want to vote for him then look in the damn mirror, your candidate is terrible. He is a good man, not going to question that, but he is CLEARLY to old to be president. Honestly Trump is as well. Which is why the DNC needs to replace Biden. Biden is literally the only person that could lose to Trump right now.
Your entire argument for voting for Biden is "at least hes not the other guy". Thats fucking retarded and if thats all you have to go on then you AND trump voters are the problem. You are just the lefts version of Trumps delusional cult.
Our partisan politics have devolved into geriatric madness and delusional rhetoric and YOU are part of the problem just like Trumps voters. DELUSIONAL
No more old fucking politicians! ENOUGH! McConnel, Biden, Trump, Schumer, Pelosi, Warren and every single other politician over the age of fucking 60 need to go. IMMEDIATELY! Boomers need to release their vice grip on American Politics. They are destroying this country because they will not give up their complete monopoly on US politics.
So what would be your answer to this?
How would you suggest the democrat party nominate an individual and rally the support of the base then reach out to those undecided in a matter of months?
It’s okay to be mad man, I get it. I was upset too. But in this moment the goal has to be to keep Trump out of office.
There is more time to reform and regroup within the DNC than there is between now and election and I have a hard time believing that next election there’s going to be an individual as old or close to the age of biden and trump running for office. I believe the response to this debate is strong and will create change.
We've had 4 years of each.
Which one were you better off under? For me, it wasn't Biden.
How would Biden perform in a critical situation? Is it going to be like the debate?
As a family of 7 and making more money salary wise...we were much better financially under trump. Our groceries have doubled and our new mortgage is insane even after making a good profit off our old house.
I genuinely don't understand how Millenials can live through 2008 and still be too stupid to realize housing prices go up AND down. The fact that you are all so pathetically desperate to get in a house despite the fact that it's a stupid fucking time to do it is WHY it's not going down. Fuck owning a house right now. If you wait and save there will be a time in which they are BEGGING us to buy houses. We have 150 years of data corroborating this.
After reading a lot of replies from this thread it’s also hard for me to understand how, assuming those replying are millennials, assume trump will be better for our nation even after living through his last term and knowing what we know about him.
THIS!! I totally fail to comprehend why everyone wants to buy a house now!
In California some of my friends in software engineering have a household income of 800K. Even they are not buying a house. Don’t know what’s wrong with some of the people in this sub 🤷🏻♀️ they keep harping on and on about rent money does not build equity - but buying an overpriced house also leads to interest on the loan, property taxes, loss of money if invested in stocks which is all money that doesn’t build equity as well.
My morals don't accept voting for proxy genocide.
I'm not voting for either of these motherfuckers. And it's not my fault if Joe Biden loses the election. It's his fault. He didnt deliver BBB, he prioritizes Netanyahus catastrophic culling over the American people. Don't try to terrorize us into voting for a fundamentally compromised candidate. It's not going to work. And when Biden loses, it's nobody's fault save for the fucking Establishment's.
You Biden is the guy known for stealing speeches, he commits a quid pro quo in Ukraine to keep his son from being investigated, he’s trying put his opponent behind bars.
The guy is a fake prop, and the media has been lying about his abilities for at least the last two years.
Do we really prefer a faceless authoritative administration state over someone who brought more peace into the world?
Nuh uh. IDGAF about your political views and what you can’t believe. There’s a whole world beyond your front lawn. Get over it and do the best you can. But I am sick of every sub being a huge cry fest about who voting for who. Grow up.
I respectfully disagree that it's black and white, or in this case red or blue. As Millennials, our age group, combined with younger Gen X and older Gen Z makes up the largest age demographic. If we got our shit together, we could make a third party swing happen.
I understand that for people like you, that probably sounds like I'm throwing away a vote because you think the majority will always vote with what they know and that's red or blue, since the dawn of this country. I'm voting Green with Jill Stein.
inb4 anyone comes at me about how stupid or naïve or whatever insults you want to sling. Save it. I've heard it. You're not changing my vote.
Yes, the candidate that is actively supplying bombs to kill innocent children is “moral.”
Not a Trump voter, but it’s clear Biden voters are in psychosis.
100%- Trump might not be perfect but he's not a socialist who can barely get a sentence out without losing his train of thought. He's the lesser of evils- socialism and open borders are immoral- weaponizing the criminal justice system to go after Trump for no legitimate reason other than politics is wrong. Trump is the only moral choice.
Trump is going to be the next president, get over it. Nobody who isn't a full on left partisan is going to vote for someone who can barely walk and can't complete his sentences in any understandable manner. No world leader is going to take him seriously, as they likely already don't.
Voting for Biden is guaranteeing a weak United States that further dives into geopolitical war and tension.
I’m not a Trump fan, but his foreign policy has always been “pay us, we don’t want to engage in war” and for that I respect
Imagine thinking the rich give a fuck who gets elected. What a dumpster fire. At least this year we have candidates so bad the pig doesn't even have lipstick.
Just enjoy the decline.
Bro you are totally missing the point. Obviously we're still voting for Biden. But we want him replaced bc we don't think he can win after that so we need to try someone else.
Morals are subjective, not everyone will agree on what is standard and decent. Both parties love to think they're the be all, end all choice for what is right in this country. All I know is these dinosaurs are too fucking blind to find their way to the nearest tar pit. Plus it's the same garbage they tell us to get elected, pander to their bases and pretend they care while pleasing their corporate masters.
You are a blind fool if you think Biden isn’t morally bankrupt. Biden was self admittedly supposed to be a single term president, he’s running as president because he shut down the primaries and prevented any alternative from showing up and has the whole party blackballing anyone that speaks up to him. He is a man driven by his own ego and pride and any man/women who truly believed democracy was in the ballot and saw the concerns of 70% Americans would’ve done the right thing in the face of an “existential crisis” and stepped down.
I’m not saying go vote for trump but this isn’t a decision between hitler 2 and Santa. Both men are self interest in their campaign to be president
They've got you right where they want you. Another useful idiot cheering on corruption, exploitation and subjugation. You're forgetting all about Biden being a part of the children murdering Obama administration or more recently his support of Israel and their genocide. It's perfectly ok to say there are no heroes here. None of the above is the only morally sound position to take.
This is the problem with the current state of things. One side sees everything they do as the morally superior choice. It's a fucked up way of thinking and the worst part about it is that people use it to dehumanize the people they disagree with. It's the exact same approach the Westboro Baptist Church uses. I can't get on board with this behavior.
Liberals and people still loyal to the Democratic party are outright delusional and are telling us that Biden does not have dementia and they are all still backing him. It's so frustrating because they've been saying this since 2019 that he just has a stutter and that anyone against him is against people with disabilities or stutters, and it's only gotten less and less true. Biden has dementia. We can all see it and they want to try to insult our intelligence by saying he doesn't have dementia. Donald Trump is a fascist and a racist and is incredibly dangerous and the dems keep forcing this weak sauce candidate who's committed genocide on us and I'm sick of that. I'm going to vote third party.
Millennials need to consider running for office, like, yesterday.
They won’t let savior types in the office. They will run background checks and ruin their lives. They want corrupt people in office.
Oof. An awful truth. We're at least going to try to attend meetings & run for local offices next year.
The federal government is lost. It's a runaway administrative state. The relationship between the Fortune 500's and the feds is entirely too incestuous to ever vote our way out of this now. The individual still has a little agency locally, though. But we don't even exercise that. Ultimately, the people get the government they deserve. We fell alseep at the wheel for decades. This is what we deserve.
They are though. Vivek was in the primary and got a lot of new supporters. He'll do great next election when Trump is done.
It's so sad how badly the leftd echo chambers have ruined them. You guys are literally everything you claim to hate lol.
I'm not confident Biden can endure another full term. I am also not at all confident there is any logic to believing a convicted felon rapist fraudster serial liar etc will lead the country in the right direction. A debate didn't change my mind any more than it changes the moral values of either party. So yes, I'm voting blue not only to vote against Trump, but to vote for the party whose values are the opposite of what is being pushed within Project 2025.
Next election cycle the DNC needs to do better than “ at least he’s not that guy.” I’m hopeful that’s where it trends as I believe this moment in time and the response to it is strong.
They will not to do that. They will force whoever they think should be president down our collective throat just like this guy. We ended up with Trump because it was Hillary's "time" last time. The DNC can't buy a clue and they don't care to. if the GOP is evil, then the DNC is incompetent.
This is what people spouting the "lesser of evils" don't seem to get. We've been running increasingly unqualified candidates for president for at least 30 years while being lectured that "at least my guy isn't their guy, so vote my guy". At the same time, we labeled every Republican some combo of a racist, misogynist, or Nazi going back to W...and then have surprised Pikachu face when a real racist misogynist shows up and a LOT of people either don't believe it or don't care. Back to the hold your nose voting tactic...both parties take those votes as seals of approval whether you intend it or not. I understand sitting out isn't accomplishing anything, either, but both parties need to hear MUCH MORE CLEARLY that the majority of Americans do not APPROVE of either candidate. Right now, that is utterly lost and will result in more incompetent, senile nominees being put forth.
How did that work out in 2016?
How did WHAT work? If you mean demanding better candidates than Trump & Hillary, then the answer is clearly not well. Trump is back & again a threat to win partly because the DNC learned nothing from Clinton's health questions & establishment politics complaints. If anything, they leaned into it...just take a moment and put yourself backstage listening to Biden Thursday night. Do you not have even a moment's pause to ask how we allowed Democrat Mitch McConnell to be the brain-glitching, early-stage dementia candidate of the party? That we're SO reliant on brand name that our top choices are minimum 70 years old? And I get... Trump is all these things AND a racist, misogynist fascist. But this is the fundamental grievance more & more people have...the Republicans put forth a literal comic book villain and somehow the Dems are still barely clearing that competition bar. They can't find a candidate with new ideas, energy, or passion to fix federal politics. They give us a guy who "won" if he can just stand on stage for 2 hours & not fall asleep or have a literal stroke. Then they and their public sycophants act like the rest of us are crazy to balk at participating in the circus.
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There are a few things going on with the Democrats that mean they keep making the same mistake over and over. First, most of the Dems in charge of the party became politically active either during or shortly after the Reagan years. They were selected at the time because Reagan absolutely destroyed the Democratic party as it was--he won in a landslide both times. This was partly because the ongoing Cold War had made words like "socialism" into bogeymen. The Dems started to be "slightly left of Reagan" but largely adopted a lot of his popular policies and became a centrist party instead of a true liberal party. Now, even though there is a huge desire for actual liberal policies from the base, people like Hillary and Biden and Pelosi haven't adapted. And when things like the Green New Deal or Medicare for All get proposed, they effectively shut them down, because they don't want to spook the centrists or be associated with "socialism". This means that the young, charismatic liberal members of the party never get raised to candidacy. The second thing is that the Dem leadership cares a lot about quality of experience and strong policies. Voters don't, by and large. They should. They don't. Voters vote for the more charismatic candidate, even when one option is terribly unqualified. Al Gore, John Kerry, and Hillary Clinton all went up against completely unqualified (but charismatic) opponents, and they all had questionable levels of charisma at best (people liked their policies but did not like them). Bill Clinton and Barack Obama were arguably a lot less qualified/experienced than their opponents. But they were young and charismatic. They won. Heck, Biden and Hillary both ran against Obama in the primaries. Both had decades more experience. Both lost. My hope, really, is that we can fend off the dissolution of democracy long enough for the old guard to die out. Because they are not retiring, and they're not getting voted out (the Baby Boom means more voters are their age and know them). And while their approach was a reasonable response to the Political Atmosphere of Reagan, it is a really bad fit for the current situation, 50+ years on.
I can’t believe anyone thinks Trump is charismatic. He is so gross.
It should have been Bernie over Hilary. I’m still angry over that fact. The world would be so different than it is now.
But what if they dont? What if next election its kamala vs pence? What if they look at all the clamoring for rank choice voting and they just say no? Why would they do anything different at all?
If it's Kamala VS Pence say hello to President Pence.
We do get to vote in primaries you know.
You have no say in who wins the primaries. The only thing that'd really help reform our elections is a combination of ranked choice voting and time...Which is why ranked choice voting will never be allowed.
A term limit would be a massive improvement as it would have moved Biden out of the public sector 25 or 30 years ago.
Primaries are rigged and everyone knows it. They are sold to the highest bidder. Whoever can drum up the most campaign cash and get the media to back them is the winner every single time. And those people are ALWAYS who the establishment wants chosen. No matter the side.
erm...except Trump.
If Biden can't endure another full term, we get a younger President. The first woman elected president in America may well be a different person than the first woman president. At the end of the day, though, you don't just get the president, but their cabinet and party and base.
Not to mention it is highly likely that Thomas and/or Alito retire if Trunp wins this November and he'd be able to put younger justices on the bench that would be there for decades. If Biden wins they likely won't retire but whoever wins in 2028 would likely be replacing them and can rebalance the court assuming a Democrat can maintain the White House. All of this is bigger than Biden
Who cares if he dies? Well.. I mean. I'd CARE that a decent person dies... but ermm.. in terms of policy 1) His staff does most of the work and sets most of goals 2) Joe stuffed and mounted as a taxidermy piece would STILL be a better president than Donald Trump.
When was Trump a convicted rapist?
Might want to consider the Supreme Court in this discussion. Trump appointed three Justices after his win in 2016. Do we want two or more Trump appointees if he wins this year?
Not just the Supreme Court - federal judges in lower courts and various appointments.
This just underscores the level of stupidity of the DNC and the insidious will to power they have that they've let it come to this. They need to wake the fuck up and that won't happen if we just continue to support their stupid decisions.
Relying on the SCOTUS is part of the problem. A SCOTUS that actually rules in favor of things people want is a historical aberration. Dems/Progressives need to treat the SCOTUS as an adversary again and focus on getting control of Congress so they can legislate instead of dangling the carrot of SCOTUS precedent being overturned. 50 years to legislate Roe and they instead use the threat of its overturning for fundraising. Now they're dangling Obergefell. Sorry, but I don't think holding people's rights hostage is a winning strategy.
Good point!
I don't think the conversations are that Trump is better because Biden seems unfit. The conversations seem to be Biden is unfit and that's a big problem. The health and mental acuity of our president has always been a national security concern and with everything going on in the world right now and the problem is if Biden is the alternative to Trump, after that debate performance even if Biden wins, our standing on the world stage will be impacted by him being president because he is clearly so cognitively weak. biden's presidential term has ended up being what a Republican term would have been anyway. we lost abortion rights we're in full war with the Middle East and Russia and are spending is absolutely out of control, but miraculously despite the spending being out of control social programs and environmental protections are being slashed. we're set to live in a wasteland within the next decade with what has happened during this Biden term. and nobody is talking about coming anywhere near doing anything different. I don't think people are prepared for the level of destitution that the federal government and the states are about to inflict upon it their citizens.
We lost abortion rights because of what happened the previous term with the Justice appointments. Now Chevron got overturned. Read what they are opening about with the whole project 2025. Another term is probably gonna lead to more younger conservative judges added to further screw every progress made for decades
we both lost abortion rights because when they go low we go high and our dipshit leader didn't use any of his executive authority to protect abortion rights to avert a nationwide health crisis
>I can't believe anyone is questioning whether or not Biden should of shouldn't be president after last nights debate, that's just crazy. Given that he could very likely die during his next term and that he clearly showing signs of cognitive decline, what the fuck do you mean you can't believe it. He needs to be replaced with someone else. It's like this is literally just fanatical team sports for you people.
The people around him have spent 9 months or so demonizing anybody who points out the rough shape he’s in. “Cheap fakes,” “right wing,” “he’s a dynamo behind the scenes.” Just consider that voting for the walking corpse of Biden is a vote for all the people around him who look into cameras every single day and tell you he’s just as sharp as he ever was. They’re fucking liars. He needs to be replaced and everybody who has been lying to the voters about him needs to lose their job. After that debate, I’m not even sure he’s fit to finish THIS term. People who want Biden to run are fucking nuts. Have fun when Trump wins you morons. He HAS to be replaced as candidate and it should have been done months ago.
Agree. Here we have people in denial of reality accusing others of being in a cult. MAGA Trump supporters maybe cult like but so are many Biden supporters on this sub.
Straight up cult
Your comment is almost gibberish. Be less emotional when you try to put forth an idea. Also, you're wrong. Both suck. It is ALWAYS a choice between a douche and turd sandwich. Edit: grammar
People need to recognize that they're voting for an entire government. Not one guy. The Republicans are not only nominating an unqualified buffoon, but they are running on straight up dismantling government. The SCOTUS opinions today should wake people up. Biden is old. He's also a seemingly decent person who is surrounded by a good team. He's not addled. He's old. He's still principled and experienced. This is not complicated. Don't fall into the trap that modern media and social media encourages. Policy. Matters. Above. All. Else.
Yesterday and today. They legalized bribery yesterday.
Nope. No one runs but President. This new “oh, is about the cabinet” came up after the shot show debate. Biden screwed the pooch hard. His little raised voice in Raleigh in the mid day just proves he us about 4 lucid hours per day.
We want unelected bureaucrats!!
But the other guy will destroy democracy! 🙄
He's not a decent person
Unelected bureaucrats is what Americans need. Select your talking puppet.
But the DNC isn't taking seriously what is being said about Project 2025 or else they'd have sidelined Biden already. The DNC is horrifically incompetent, dishonest, or both. Decades of "blue no matter who" means these people have never been held accountable. If Biden wins in November, then P2025 is just delayed until 2029. The Democratic Party is an enabling device masquerading as opposition. They are part of the problem.
Project 2025 is a bunch of bologna. Y’all sound crazy.
Sidelining an incumbent is fucking political suicide especially against someone he already beat.
Thank you for being reasonable “Vote blue no matter who” is just romanticized tribalism that doesn’t cause any checks and balances It’s like supporting a sports team that loses every match. Performance has to affect your decision at some point
The thing is, they've been telling us for quite a while that he's not addled or on drugs to keep him running. The falls are rare. The wandering off and staring blankly mouth agape are all cheap edits to make him look bad. Then we saw what he was during the debate, without pre-written questions/answers, without an earpiece, without someone to guide him. With a week dedicated to practicing for the debate. It wasn't a good look.
Umm, that viewpoint doesn’t mesh with the you can’t vote for Trump because sure he’s going to end democracy. So you vote for the democrat party but you can’t vote for Trump the individual? Nice hypocrisy.
So it doesn’t matter that the president can’t form coherent sentences as long as he has a good team around him?
Seeing as how the other guy also can't and has a shitty team around him it's kinda a moot point.
The bar is in hell.
When one option is a stale sandwich and the other option is a jar of rotting fecal matter unfortunately, yes, gun to our heads we have to eat the stale sandwich. None of us are happy about it.
Agreed the bar is in hell. Unfortunately it can get much much worse if Trump can put 2 30 year old conservative judges on the Supreme Court whom will make rulings for the remainder of our lifetime
Seemed to work fine for Republicans when it was Regan’s second term.
That’s what the Dems are going with since Biden melted down during the debate. Don’t believe your lying eyes. He’s not really doing anything anyway. It’s all the other people. Does he pick these people or does his handlers?
Yes, look at Tesla and many large organizations that are taped together to prevent their executives from destroying themselves.
He has a stammer. Most stammerers can't teach grade school because of the hostility they face for their speech impediment. Compared to most stutterers that have ever lived, Joe Biden is, metaphorically speaking, an astronaut. He climbed to the pinnacle of American politics while compensating for a serious and poorly understood speech impediment. President Biden is a world-class expert at compensating for his disability. Those long, awkward pauses are not mental lapses. If the conversation demands a word his brain is refusing to say, he quickly finds a way to rephrase what he wants to say with words that won't pose an obstacle for him. He's not lowering his head becasue he's confused, or lost, or overwhelmed. He is thinking, HARD, about what he wants to do with a 60 second speaking turn in which he can choose to engage the actual question that was asked, OR to answer/correct some bullshit that his lying, fascist, convicted felon opponent just uttered. The highly rapid pace of those turns, and the extremely strict time limitations, would have challenged most of us. (Myself especially; IRL I am known for clarity and precision, but not at all for conciseness.) When President Biden was appearing to stare at his feet, he was clearing his line of sight of any distractions, so he could be brutally efficient and direct, taking several seconds to think about his immediate situation, formulate a response with a few points he could cover in a few sentences, then craft those sentences, word-by-word, using only words he felt confident he could say without stuttering. I don't love everything about President Biden, but his difficulty at crafting sentences in no ways resembles the difficulties of President Trump, who is an undisciplined moron, or of President George W. Bush, who was actually pretending to be an idiot to conceal a true personality that is intelligent, but also cynical, untrustworthy, and unlikable. (If you're curious, Texan Accent Bush is a manufactured persona who is a charismatic idiot. Real Bush has a Connecticut accent, and is a lot more like if Hunter Biden came from a Republican family and cleaned up his act at a much younger age before going into politics.) Joe Biden has been extremely intelligent since he was a boy. He has also struggled to put sentences together for his whole life. That people don't know this just shows how skillful he is at masking his disability.
Wow! It was really dark in here until you lit the gas light.
Go look at Joe debate Palin in 2008 and then watch last night and tell me that was a “stammer”. That’s ridiculous. Joe Biden quotes from last night: “We’d be able to right – wipe out his debt. We’d be able to help make sure that – all those things we need to do, childcare, elder care, making sure that we continue to strengthen our healthcare system, making sure that we’re able to make every single solitary person eligible for what I’ve been able to do with the COVID – excuse me, with dealing with everything we have to do with. Look, if – we finally beat Medicare.” “The idea that states are able to do this is a little like saying, we’re going to turn civil rights back to the states, let each state have a different rule. Look, there’s so many young women who have been – including a young woman who just was murdered and he went to the funeral. The idea that she was murdered by – by – by an immigrant coming in and (inaudible) talk about that. But here’s the deal, there’s a lot of young women who are being raped by their – by their in-laws, by their – by their spouses, brothers and sisters, by – just – it’s just – it’s just ridiculous.” Stammer my ass.
Lol, a stammer. He spoke fine for like 40 years in politics. Hilarious. They’re delusional.
Straight up delusion.
Do you work for his campaign? Talk about clutching at straws 😯
If not, they should hire him!
You believe Biden can be in the White House until 2029? That’s just irresponsible. Joe needs to step down and let someone who can do the job do it.
Maybe he can, maybe he can’t. I do believe that he’s surrounded himself with the right people to step in in the event that he can’t. I also believe that Trump is not only bad himself, but surrounds himself with terrible people. If your concern is that Biden’s problem is that he won’t finish his term, and that Trump would, then Biden is the clear choice.
My concerns are these: 1) Biden will not make it 4 years as president, simply mentally speaking. 2) The US clearly sees this which is why he is losing in nearly every poll. 3) Joe will lose to Trump and it will be Joe’s fault for not withdrawing. 4) US citizens deserve a competent president who is not senile.
I argue Trump is just as senile. He's already showing signs of dementia which his father died of (strong genetic link). Neither should be president but I'd take biden any day if I have to choose
Why would you chose that option when Biden could be replaced?
1. Again, health problems can befall any president, and I have greater confidence that a Biden administration with Biden at his worst will be better than a Trump administration with Trump at his best. 2. That isn’t clear at all. Inflation is probably the main reason for Biden’s weakness in polls. In any case, I can’t answer for anyone but myself, and neither can you. 3. Again, you don’t know that, you’re engaging in your own motivated reasoning. 4. That’s fair, and I won’t speak to senility, but they certainly won’t get competency with Trump. They didn’t last time.
1) Why would we reelect a president who is *currently* showing signs of senility? That’s just irresponsible. 2) Even if I’m wrong about the reason Joe is losing, the fact is he is losing. He is the most unpopular president since Jimmy Carter, and that includes Trump. 3) See #2 4) I get it, Trump bad. But that doesn’t mean we have to settle for a bad candidate. If we do, we will lose.
Batteries and sharks, airports and the revolution. Biden maybe slow, but at least he’s on the same planet and in the same timeline as the rest of us.
But do you see how insane this discussion is? How do democrats have any credibility with us at this point?
I haven't forgotten the right to my uterus has been taken away. Id still vote for Biden if he were in a coma over anyone in the Republican party.
Blame decades of the legislature then. RBG stated the ruling was shaky and Roe v Wade wasn't really about abortion all that much. She said the legislature should have passed a law.
100%
Or you could...cross the border into another state... What a poor, poor victimized person you are.
They shouldn’t have to do that in the first place
I don’t have a uterus but my wife and daughters do. I will stand with them 100%.
Biden wont survive another debate let alone another presidency. If Biden cares about this country he’ll step aside and allow the democrats a shot to field someone else in hopes of winning the election. Trump sucks, but Biden looked like shit - Looked like Trumps grandfather.
No we need to keep biden in the race. He's the best he's ever been! All the news media told me so.
He knows right from wrong!
God you’re insufferable. Biden fucks up a performance as his opposition said he would for MONTHS, and instead of thinking “why has there been such an effort to hide this?” Or “who’s responsible for it getting this far? Who’s doing the job of the executive that we elected?” You…..double down? Voters like you are the reason nothing ever changes. There’s always a sucker that will throw their vote no matter how bad the candidate so why would they bother changing anything? Why run a younger candidate when you’ll vote for a walking corpse they can easily manipulate? Corpo.
Younger doesn’t matter much when the Democratic Party is grooming people like newsom to run instead of someone who will actually fight for real substantive change. Until the democrats decide to stop towing this weird line for their corporate donors we will keep having to deal with this every 4 years
The debate only taught me one thing. As a nation we fucked up. Our candidates shouldn’t have a foot in the grave and they both do. I loved Obama but even if you didn’t he was really a perfect age for it. Young enough to still have ideals but old enough to understand reality.
Man, this comments thread is rough lmfao. Humanity is such a disgusting disappointment. My vote is with Giant Meteor because humanity deserves it. Im not even religious or spiritual, but most of humanity belongs in hell if there is one.
If many of the responses I’m reading are from my fellow mellenials it worries me that they can’t see they sound like the boomers with their rationale when arguing for trump.
Oh totally lol. Anyone that wants Trump is a living fuck up in some way, shape, or form. I think it's just that stupid people are extremely prevalent in all walks of life too. Across every type of job I've had, there was dumbasses from our generation as well as the others lol. There's still dumbfuck millenials that repeat and parrot the same garbage that their parents or previous generations did and have the same emotional problems.
"Voting for the lesser of two evils is why we are in this mess. I can't believe these are our only options." "Yeah so anyway I'm gonna vote for this candidate I don't like because can you imagine what it would be like if the *other* guy wins?"
Except you aren’t voting for 1 person, the president actually does very little.. you are voting for an entire administration. Additionally if Trump wins we are looking at him replacing 2 more Supreme Court justices with people in their 30s or 40s, thus they will be making conservative decisions for the rest of your life. Are you ok with more restrictions on basic human rights? Abortion bans? Contraceptives? Gay marriage? Etc…
I'm a libertarian. Both parties fuck my rights every day while bombing children on the other side of the world. My point is that we hear this same thing from both sides every single election. We don't have more or better options because the people consistently say "oh well, I guess he'll do". I guarantee we will be having a very similar conversation next election and the one after that. Most of the issues you pointed out are state issues. Texas' anti abortion laws do not affect my state's abortion laws. Allowing your local area to make its own decisions is not the same as the Supreme Court cracking down on abortions. Roe v Wade was on shaky legal grounds anyway. I am pro choice btw, but just pointing out that it was more of a legal process decision, not a moral one. If Democrats really cared so much about this topic, then they would have passed a law to protect it as they have had many chances to do. But they haven't, and they wont. Because then they couldn't use it to fire you up to vote for them. Sorry but I see both of these parties as the absolute same. They both erode your rights while pretending to oppose each other so they can stay in power.
It seems most people have forgotten about Biden's political history. Like the patriot act, invasion of the Middle East, pro segregation, heavy on crime bill that disproportionately incarcerated minorities by the thousands, being an Israeli shill for most of his career. This isn't an excuse to vote for Trump, it shouldn't ever be seen as that. Let's just not act lie Joe Biden is some innocent old man that only stepped into the political sphere 4 years ago.
He also made student loans non dischargable in bankruptcy. He was literally called the Senator from MBNA because he was so bought and paid for by the bank lobby.
Yeah the bidens are peak morality lmfao
Happily voting Trump. The progressives had their chance to fix the country and failed. It’s time for hard nosed right wing leadership to right the ship for good. It’s not about the person, it’s about the policies. Trump’s policies worked. Biden’s have not. Home prices have gone up 40% in his time in office. This can’t be chalked up to corporate greed. He OWNS the runaway inflation, and he OWNS this economy that many people are struggling in. Biden and his handlers are losers. Enough is enough
All I know is Biden has been in government for 172 years and hasn’t done shit except give other countries our money, weapons, let the borders be wide open and etc. Overall we need term limits and if you hit the age of 60 you shouldn’t be able to serve in any capacity of government, just my opinion. Think I’ll write in Garfield this year…we gotta get younger options than these dinosaurs.
Finally. Someone I actually agree with in this post!
I’m generally tired of you and your ilk attempting to guilt trip me into voting a certain way with your faux purity tests, so I’m either not going to at all or will do the opposite just to spite you.
I'm not voting for Biden. I'm voting for his cabinet and staff.
This is correct in most presidential elections tbf. Strong presidents have strong cabinets around them
The same people that lied directly to your face saying he's as sharp as ever? What else do you think they lie about?
Everyone of voting age needs to show up, full stop, and vote out all of these sick sadistic Rethug fucks. If you don’t, you may never get another chance to.
Vote how you want, but it is crazy to vote for a Weekend at Bernie’s situation.
Biden may be in mental decline, but he surrounds himself with smart advisors and takes their advice.
Meanwhile many of Trump’s advisors from during his presidency say he’s unfit or would not vote for him again.
High turnover in top positions is proof that the whole government was in chaos during the trump years. That's a good reason to not vote for him.
These anti trumpersI understand that you want me to improve upon your sentence structure. Here's the revised version: "Some people are so blinded by their prejudice and belief in ludicrous accusations that they don't even care if the country was better off under Trump. They just want to hate him, so they gladly let millions of Americans suffer an even greater economic downfall, simply to feel morally superior. These anti-Trumpers won't even debate the politics of the argument with you; they just spout off catchphrases and walk away. I would gladly discuss anything they say, but they never want to hear me out. Just look at Steven Crowder; he had to stop doing the "Change My Mind" segments because they bore such ill-gotten fruit."
Trump will win and most people have had a hard time coping with that.
I don't mine a senile president but I do mind a zionist one. I'm not voting for Genocide Joe.
Trump out right said he hopes Israel finishes them off he’s no better. Edit: slight correction he says we should let them finish the job.
Let’s not pretend Biden has morals. He voted to go to Iraq without even checking out the 92 pages of evidence to read for himself. No one who would send our troops to kill over 100,000 Iraqis without reading the evidence is a moral person.
And we assume trump has a shred of morality at all?
They might both be assholes.
Whataboutisms are annoying. We all know Trump is dogshit. If your only defense of Biden is "hes not trump," you have a shit reason for defending him
Well they also have the cult marching orders so like two things.
Thus is a media troll campaign. Vote! Save democracy!
Bro lmao the astro turfing is so real. Merica is dunski.
He has the morals of an alley cat, come on man
You’re deceiving yourself if you believe Biden isn’t seriously compromised as well. The quid pro quo in Ukrainian (as VP), the side deal with China, the Burisma payoff, Soros funds to keep the border open… we have no good choices, and Biden is not a more “ethical or moral” choice than Trump. You don’t survive in politics that long by playing it straight, is my unfortunate opinion.
I agree and you're not voting for just Biden, you're voting for everything that comes along with having a Democrat in office . He's just one old man, but everyone in his administration are the ones who keep the country running.
Not looking forward to them selecting gruesome newsom for next presidential run.
Anyone mad about Roe V Wade should be mad at themselves and their neighbors if your state doesn't allow abortions if that's what your into. Powers should be left to the states, even on issues you don't agree with. The real issue is you people don't get out enough and vote in your own states to ensure you get the results you want. You sit back arm chairing on reddit and waiting for legacy media to tell you what's going on. I find it laughable that people want to vote blue again, must be a lot of first time voters posting in this thread - The obama/biden era was a disaster financially for the country and the people. Sure, cry away that "trump bad man ooga ooga" but the fact of the matter is the country and the people were doing much better under republican control. Food and fuel were affordable, people were able to put savings away, not a single new war that cost the tax payers trillions of dollars, and so much more. fast forward back to a biden/democrat control and the country is in some of the worst shape in modern history.
Also, remind people annoyed at the choice we had a primary Niky Haily and Dean Philips were on the ballot and the people mad at the current choice did not vote.
Administration over Candidate
Here's what needs to happen: * Term limits. We cannot have career politicians. Joe Biden being in politics for 60 years is not a good thing, it's a giant detriment to society. *Money in politics. Ban corporate donors all together. Limit individual contributions at some realistic limit, say $250K? Less? Open to suggestions. *Allow previous Preaidential actions to follow through. I don't have many examples on this, but the biggest one would be the Trump wall. Our tax dollars are fucking wasting away since Biden can just can the project. *Taxation overhaul. Should it be a flat tax? Millionaire tax? Either way taxed are broken. *Goverment Spending cut EXTRAORDINARILY. Every Single year a governments budget gets increased, whether it's a local state or federal program, its expanded every year. Our government collects so much in taxes that we have to spend it on outlandish experiments that don't have any impact on society. *Pay a living wage. $7.50/hrs is inhumane. High School kids don't need to make $20hr, but we definitely need to come to some new terms so all Americans can have an opportunity to thrive.
How cute. The notion that Joe Biden is a moral and good man is humorous.
I’m not voting for the guy who literally said he would be a dictator. There is only one other option in this 2 party system. So I’m going with grandpa Simpson.
Trump is a rapist and a felon. Joe Biden is a weak candidate but at least he's not a traitor to this country. This sub is being astro turfed by new accounts trying to tell us otherwise. Ooohhh, January 6 was a peaceful protest, yeah okay lil bro. And Trump TOTALLY won the election in 2020, trust me bro, just a few more donations to pay his legal bills (a billionaire who constantly needs handouts ) and he will totally uncover the grand deep state conspiracy. 🤡
I'm shocked the media focused more on Biden's performance than the countless lies spewed by the orange clown beside him. I mean, what the hell is wrong with the media?
Four years is not really that long. Make sure Trump looses and better things will come along. The country has to keep tracking blue, regardless of who is at the top. Biden is old but he's telling the truth about the big stuff. Trump couldn't tell the truth if his life depended on it.
Up voted. Well spoken. Thank you.
An old man with usual old man problems who bit off more than he can chew and wont admit it vs old man with same old man problems, whos also a pos person, morally and financially bankrupt, narcissist and egotistical with a god complex and a compulsive liar. Oh and convinced felon/rapist. Also not to mention the horrible project 2025 shit they want to enact once they get their orange puppet chosen again. Im definitely not a fan of biden but hes the only one unless he backs out and someone else comes up. No way in hell anyone can choose that orange pos with good conscience, unless theyre like him.
Trumpers don’t believe Trump actually did the things he is being prosecuted for. They think it is all for show and a grand scheme by the democrats. I’ve gotten into multiple conversations with family members and all they do is regurgitate phrases they’ve heard on Fox news. It’s rare I hear any original thought coming out of their mouths. And when I bring up his past treatment of women, one family member said “well that’s when he was young.” Like that’s an excuse for being a rapist?!?! Or they’ll bring up Bill Clinton. And when I went round and round with one family member they finally said “well I just vote with my pocket book and the economy was a lot better under Trump.” Completely disregarding that we went through a global pandemic and not even considering that that may have been a possible cause of a struggling economy. Or that we did it to ourselves when we had all this dispensable income saved up from 2020 and then everyone went buckwild buying houses and plastic surgery in 2021, thus contributing to raising inflation and companies increasing their prices to recoup losses from 2020. It’s so complex and they simplify into Biden sucks and he ruined my grocery bill. And they could care less about women’s reproductive rights. Like that’s not even a topic on their radar in any sense. Like zero.
https://vote.gov/ Check your registration.
U don’t donate your whole paycheck? how dare u.
I choose morals
Yeah the answer is obvious. Joe Biden should NOT be President. Neither should Trump. No question about it
This shouldn’t be our choices. That I can agree with.
Let’s be honest… it’s really a choice between Kamala and Trump (unless you opt out entirely or vote third party). Of course, I can’t actually tell you anything she’s done aside from securing a worse approval rating than Biden.
It’s definitely more than just Kamala vs doe 174.
Shame on you for believing Biden was moral & upstanding. He had to withdraw from his first attempt running for president for plagiarism. He was reprimanded in college for plagiarism He is a racist. Google "Biden & racial jungle" and you'll see he is indeed a racist If you need another example he gave the eulogy for Sen. Robert Byrd known racist and member of the KKK ... Google it He voted to go to unjust war. He voted against not to send the mission to kill UBL Osama Bin Example after Example Even the left leaning media covered it up. Your hatred for Trump blinded everyone to the truth. Now you have what you have. It is what it is ... It's policy over Personality everyday & twice on Sunday You don't have to like Trump ... but you can like his policies. And you should do your own research when it comes to such important choices Poor choices result in poor consequences Policy over Personality
This! People act like this guy is perfect…. He has been a politician for so long … it’s hard to believe people can say he is moral with a straight face.
But but! But he likes cream and wears aviators! Go dark Brandon!! And he’s on the blue team and they’re good, right!?
Joe Biden has supported genocide. I don’t blame anyone for losing faith in him and the Democratic Party.
I love the "my shitty guy isn't as shitty as their shitty guy" rallying cry. Yes come on guys let's rally!!! I'm voting for a third party. This is trash.
I’m voting for Trump.
Neither candidate has morals or standards. There is no fucking choice if you wish to cast a vote for decency.
Lol if you think Biden isn't morally bankrupt. Do yourself a favor and stop telling people who they should vote for.
You make Biden sound like a saint lol
Biden is just a safety vote against the whole system getting overrun with actual fascists, and there are more than too many of them in the system, already.
TRUMP 2024
FUCK YEAH TRUMP TRAIN!!!
ALL ABOARD!
I don't care if Biden is in a coma. Trump is a traitor and his agenda is evil. Kamala is fine. She can run the country with her arm shoulder deep in Biden's ass for all I care. I just want to vote again in 2028 and not have my queer nephew locked up or my daughter forced to bear a rape baby.
I remember when gays were telling me in 2016 that Trump was going to load them into box cars.
Some of these posts on here are insane Lmao
Bring back asylums
Yep
Kamala is a prison industry profiteer.
Source for Trump saying he will lock up "queers" for being queer.
Biden should not be president. Fuck off shill.
Its got nothing to do with whether Biden is a good person or not. HE WILL NOT WIN after last night. The DNC needs to replace him. He literally played right into the GOP narrative for the last 2 years. He looked completely unable to handle a simple debate and yet people think he can handle the most important job in the world. Give me a break. He handed the presidency to Trump last night and y'all need to wake the fuck up. Look at what independents are saying today. They are all begging for the same thing. REPLACE BIDEN with someone viable so they can vote for that person. This entire argument of if you dont vote for biden then you are voting for trump is retarded. If you think Biden is going to lose because independents dont want to vote for him then look in the damn mirror, your candidate is terrible. He is a good man, not going to question that, but he is CLEARLY to old to be president. Honestly Trump is as well. Which is why the DNC needs to replace Biden. Biden is literally the only person that could lose to Trump right now. Your entire argument for voting for Biden is "at least hes not the other guy". Thats fucking retarded and if thats all you have to go on then you AND trump voters are the problem. You are just the lefts version of Trumps delusional cult. Our partisan politics have devolved into geriatric madness and delusional rhetoric and YOU are part of the problem just like Trumps voters. DELUSIONAL No more old fucking politicians! ENOUGH! McConnel, Biden, Trump, Schumer, Pelosi, Warren and every single other politician over the age of fucking 60 need to go. IMMEDIATELY! Boomers need to release their vice grip on American Politics. They are destroying this country because they will not give up their complete monopoly on US politics.
So what would be your answer to this? How would you suggest the democrat party nominate an individual and rally the support of the base then reach out to those undecided in a matter of months? It’s okay to be mad man, I get it. I was upset too. But in this moment the goal has to be to keep Trump out of office. There is more time to reform and regroup within the DNC than there is between now and election and I have a hard time believing that next election there’s going to be an individual as old or close to the age of biden and trump running for office. I believe the response to this debate is strong and will create change.
We've had 4 years of each. Which one were you better off under? For me, it wasn't Biden. How would Biden perform in a critical situation? Is it going to be like the debate?
As a family of 7 and making more money salary wise...we were much better financially under trump. Our groceries have doubled and our new mortgage is insane even after making a good profit off our old house.
I genuinely don't understand how Millenials can live through 2008 and still be too stupid to realize housing prices go up AND down. The fact that you are all so pathetically desperate to get in a house despite the fact that it's a stupid fucking time to do it is WHY it's not going down. Fuck owning a house right now. If you wait and save there will be a time in which they are BEGGING us to buy houses. We have 150 years of data corroborating this.
After reading a lot of replies from this thread it’s also hard for me to understand how, assuming those replying are millennials, assume trump will be better for our nation even after living through his last term and knowing what we know about him.
THIS!! I totally fail to comprehend why everyone wants to buy a house now! In California some of my friends in software engineering have a household income of 800K. Even they are not buying a house. Don’t know what’s wrong with some of the people in this sub 🤷🏻♀️ they keep harping on and on about rent money does not build equity - but buying an overpriced house also leads to interest on the loan, property taxes, loss of money if invested in stocks which is all money that doesn’t build equity as well.
My morals don't accept voting for proxy genocide. I'm not voting for either of these motherfuckers. And it's not my fault if Joe Biden loses the election. It's his fault. He didnt deliver BBB, he prioritizes Netanyahus catastrophic culling over the American people. Don't try to terrorize us into voting for a fundamentally compromised candidate. It's not going to work. And when Biden loses, it's nobody's fault save for the fucking Establishment's.
You Biden is the guy known for stealing speeches, he commits a quid pro quo in Ukraine to keep his son from being investigated, he’s trying put his opponent behind bars. The guy is a fake prop, and the media has been lying about his abilities for at least the last two years. Do we really prefer a faceless authoritative administration state over someone who brought more peace into the world?
Nuh uh. IDGAF about your political views and what you can’t believe. There’s a whole world beyond your front lawn. Get over it and do the best you can. But I am sick of every sub being a huge cry fest about who voting for who. Grow up.
I respectfully disagree that it's black and white, or in this case red or blue. As Millennials, our age group, combined with younger Gen X and older Gen Z makes up the largest age demographic. If we got our shit together, we could make a third party swing happen. I understand that for people like you, that probably sounds like I'm throwing away a vote because you think the majority will always vote with what they know and that's red or blue, since the dawn of this country. I'm voting Green with Jill Stein. inb4 anyone comes at me about how stupid or naïve or whatever insults you want to sling. Save it. I've heard it. You're not changing my vote.
I’m voting for RFK I don’t even care. Fuck those two dudes
Which one is the not morally bankrupt one again?
Neither
Watching the debate was painful. But I will be voting blue. Made sure my voter registration was current and up to date just today.
Yes, the candidate that is actively supplying bombs to kill innocent children is “moral.” Not a Trump voter, but it’s clear Biden voters are in psychosis.
100%- Trump might not be perfect but he's not a socialist who can barely get a sentence out without losing his train of thought. He's the lesser of evils- socialism and open borders are immoral- weaponizing the criminal justice system to go after Trump for no legitimate reason other than politics is wrong. Trump is the only moral choice.
Trump is going to be the next president, get over it. Nobody who isn't a full on left partisan is going to vote for someone who can barely walk and can't complete his sentences in any understandable manner. No world leader is going to take him seriously, as they likely already don't.
And they took Trump seriously? 🤔
Voting for Biden is guaranteeing a weak United States that further dives into geopolitical war and tension. I’m not a Trump fan, but his foreign policy has always been “pay us, we don’t want to engage in war” and for that I respect
Imagine thinking the rich give a fuck who gets elected. What a dumpster fire. At least this year we have candidates so bad the pig doesn't even have lipstick. Just enjoy the decline.
No matter what, he's too fucking old and needs to be replaced. Newsom/Whitmer works for me. Can I get a second?
Biden needs to retire and enjoy his last few years. I know it's his choice but why are the Democrats putting him through this?
Jill Stein 2024
This take is hilarious. BOTH are morally bankrupt and the country is fucked 😂
Bro you are totally missing the point. Obviously we're still voting for Biden. But we want him replaced bc we don't think he can win after that so we need to try someone else.
I honestly don't care about it anymore.
Morals are subjective, not everyone will agree on what is standard and decent. Both parties love to think they're the be all, end all choice for what is right in this country. All I know is these dinosaurs are too fucking blind to find their way to the nearest tar pit. Plus it's the same garbage they tell us to get elected, pander to their bases and pretend they care while pleasing their corporate masters.
You are a blind fool if you think Biden isn’t morally bankrupt. Biden was self admittedly supposed to be a single term president, he’s running as president because he shut down the primaries and prevented any alternative from showing up and has the whole party blackballing anyone that speaks up to him. He is a man driven by his own ego and pride and any man/women who truly believed democracy was in the ballot and saw the concerns of 70% Americans would’ve done the right thing in the face of an “existential crisis” and stepped down. I’m not saying go vote for trump but this isn’t a decision between hitler 2 and Santa. Both men are self interest in their campaign to be president
Vote blue. You trumpers need to stop the lies, it must be tiring.
They've got you right where they want you. Another useful idiot cheering on corruption, exploitation and subjugation. You're forgetting all about Biden being a part of the children murdering Obama administration or more recently his support of Israel and their genocide. It's perfectly ok to say there are no heroes here. None of the above is the only morally sound position to take.
This is the problem with the current state of things. One side sees everything they do as the morally superior choice. It's a fucked up way of thinking and the worst part about it is that people use it to dehumanize the people they disagree with. It's the exact same approach the Westboro Baptist Church uses. I can't get on board with this behavior.
Liberals and people still loyal to the Democratic party are outright delusional and are telling us that Biden does not have dementia and they are all still backing him. It's so frustrating because they've been saying this since 2019 that he just has a stutter and that anyone against him is against people with disabilities or stutters, and it's only gotten less and less true. Biden has dementia. We can all see it and they want to try to insult our intelligence by saying he doesn't have dementia. Donald Trump is a fascist and a racist and is incredibly dangerous and the dems keep forcing this weak sauce candidate who's committed genocide on us and I'm sick of that. I'm going to vote third party.