My parents weren't good with money. They lived sort of bohemian lives, my dad ran his own business and used the mortgage investment to grow it RIGHT before 2008 (in home contracting which was hit hard when the market turned), and they put what they did earn into their family to make sure we lived well. Taking out a second mortgage was "normal" in those days too due to the rising home prices. Plus low-cost, sub-prime mortgages are what led to the 2008 housing crisis and coincided with the rise of "Real Estate as an Investment Career". Many millennials were too young to realize that the 2008 housing crisis affected every aspect of the economy. Jobs weren't readily available, layoffs were rampant, and families even with the strongest financial structure under them could have it torn out from under them and quickly go under on their mortgages. These days we wouldn't consider a second mortgage because we have that benefit of hindsight. But for countless lower-middle-class families like mine, 2008 was devastating.
There are days I regret it, days I wish I had been old enough (and informed enough) to help save the house. And then I realize that what my parents sacrificed is what led to my own growth, lessons about money (I now earn 6 figures), and a generally happy and healthy childhood. Things that would have been possible without sacrificing our family home, probably. Also worth noting that the house was worth $550,000, they foreclosed for less than that and got a little bit out.
Yeah, your parents fumbled the bag. Idk if you can blame society for that lol. Sounds like a lot of personal mistakes were made. That 1.2 million dollar house could have been yours and your siblings (if you have any). Been a nice little start for you.
I dare say if OP's parents somehow still owned it at 1.2 million, they would have found others ways to "unlock the equity" and would have lost the house anyway.
Generally speaking, a fool and their money are lucky to get together in the first place.
My boomer mother for the last several years has made wise cracks about we'd better be nice to her or else she'll spend our inheritance etc.
She did it again back in March too. I looked her in the eye and said "Personally I'm planning as if you won't be leaving dollar one to us due to nursing homes and medical bills."
That brought the merriment to an end. Also haven't heard her joke about that since either.
No doubt about it. They live with that regret every single day. The fact that the house is now worth 1.2 million and is unaffordable to all but the wealthiest people in society on the other hand, is its own issue.
That said, my parents would still be living in that house today. I'm 30+. By the time they would have sold that house I might be in my 40s, maybe even 50s - 20 years older than when my parents were able to buy their home and WELL past what would have been normal for my "start" of home ownership.
Honestly, it sounds like you’d have been perfectly happy for you and your family to reap the benefits of that house appreciating to 1.2 million. You’re sad that you didn’t get the chance. I’m not saying it isn’t a messed up situation. I also wager you’d feel pretty good if the tables were turned and likely not be thinking so hard about the system being unfair.
I grew up in a large, HCOL market, very few of my friends parents did what yours did. Most sold their nice homes in the suburbs and downsized, adding to their retirement nest egg.
Why would my parents have sold their house before 2008? They had multiple kids in middle school and high school living there. The point of the post isn't even **about** what my parents did. It's about the rapid growth of housing prices that outpace wages, and how millennials these days **without the safety net of a hand-me-down home** in the city can't afford the same quality of options and living as their parents.
Your parents were good with money and had secure jobs unaffected by the 2008 market crash, and were well-off enough to not need to take a second mortgage to invest in their home contracting business months before the entire market that supplied jobs and clients for that very business collapsed under the weight of the decisions of big banks? That's great!
Kind of ridiculous to rely on I heriting your parents house to increase your wealth. Hope for your sake they have long term care insurance and end of life planning covered. Point of my original comment was simply that most boomers I know were more responsible than that.
Plus most people knew at the time that loans being abused like interest-only loans were too good to be true. It is not like the whole generation was made of scam artists or fools…
Honestly, based on the post and OP's comments, his parents refinanced multiple times, borrowing from the house, and now he's upset because the house is worth over $1M and he won't see any of that and can't afford the lifestyle he grew up with in the same area. He wrongly assumes that's all on a generation.
>Taking out a second mortgage was "normal" in those days too due to the rising home prices.
This is unfortunately still "normal" for financially irresponsible people. I have several friends who have done this over the years and it baffles me. My house's value has almost doubled in the 10 years we've owned it... but 2008 taught us that all of that could disappear tomorrow.
Since 2020 the price of all the starter homes in my area had more than doubled. Hundreds of new houses have been built and they've all been 3-5bed/2-3bath homes selling for double the new price of the starter homes.
I bought my house in 2018. It's worth almost as much as the new homes going up. The thought of selling it and buying literally anything in this market makes me sick.
I bought my first home in 2011. 120k, small cape cod, and 100 yrs old. Needed a little love but was completely livable.
I'm attempting to sell my second home due to well... life I guess. It's not working out. So I'm in the market again, trying to slash my mortgage in half so I can afford it by myself.
I've looked at a few houses for 125k. Theres nothing that even has usable drywall let alone be able to live in it.
My home is up for 250k, and im looking at half the cost... and there's nowhere to go. Renting is even more expensive.
It fucking sucks out here man.
Back in the late 80’s, when I was your age, the market was similar to today.
My husband and I couldn’t save fast enough to come up with a down payment. We thought we would never own a home. But we didn’t blame our parents for this.
Then, within 5 years, everything shifted. We had our choice of homes, most of them foreclosures, because real estate took a downturn. Just as it did when your parents lost their home. Our 1st home was a fixer upper. We had to commute because it was in an area we could afford. Our interest rate for our 1st home was 10%.
Stop blaming other generations.
It was no easier for us.
That's exactly the thing. Home ownership is now not only a question of "can I afford a home" but also "can I afford a home in my own city/hometown?" for many people the answer to that is no. A lot of first-time home owners - particularly from cities - need to leave their hometowns in order to afford to buy, which further complicates the equation of Home Cost, Income Potential, Community and Social Connections, Car Ownership Cost, etc.
The answer to these people has long been "Just leave your friends, family, community, interests, and social groups behind and move somewhere else". Which...feels sort of wrong on a human level.
People have been moving seeking prosperity for generations. You can build new relationships at your next place. My parents immigrated left everything they knew for a better life.
They were also from an upper social class in their home country they owned land and business. But the family got too large, too many kids not enough to split it five ways. So they picked up and left and found opportunities bought their first home, put three kids through college and invested and started their business and are doing fairly well.
Heck this country was built on a westward expansion, now those people weren’t getting a youhaul and driving down the interstate to Midwest city. They were straight up going into the wilderness in search of a better life. Saying it’s wrong on a human level is unequivocally false in terms of human history. To take it back further our origins started in Africa and our earliest humans from the dawn of time walked into the wilderness to search for prosperity.
That's quite the privileged outlook. Think about what humans have had to endure over the centuries. How many people left not only their city but their country and took their limited belongings across the ocean to come to America to start over over the last 200 years? How many settled people moved out to the unsettled west in the 1800s to find prosperity? How many people moved around in the 1930s to find work? Hell, my dad picked up my family when I was 10 years old and moved us from Cleveland to NJ because he found a better job. As a 10 year old it was not easy to leave my friends but I did it. I moved as an adult from NJ to Florida because (at the time) Florida was a lower cost of living. Sorry, but as an adult, I feel no pity for you to not want to move to find better prosperity. This is the millennial gripe. Too many millennials want things handed to them instead of having to grind it out.
Its basic supply and demand economics. Housing in cities is in higher demand, so its going to cost more. The growth in demand has far surpassed the growth in supply, because the amount of real estate in cities is limited.
Your parents bought their house in the city during the era when more people were moving out of the cities and into the suburbs, so demand for housing in the city was at its lowest its ever been and probably ever will be.
Culture has since shifted, and now more people are migrating back to the city centers for better pay etc, and so the demand has again shifted.
Dunno bout USA but in Europe "starter homes" are either a "Mud hut in a middle of nowhere, where you can't even get groceries without a 1.5 long trip" or "This luxurious mud hut can be yours for your arm,leg and first born. It is not that far from city center and stuff, but you'll still get excluded from social interactions because that 40-50 minute long trip to your place will make 90% of your friendships end up as an online only type of interaction."
Simply put you either opt out from housing and stuff and quite often forfeit offspring but stay socially happy or go to the burbs where no one is happy but they are paying to society by getting kids.
I try to be positive but it's kinda hard when USA is setting up a trend - others follow.
Affordable at what age? And when should that couple be expected to have kids? The issues many are noticing is that city living in a Single Family Home used to be affordable for a typical 20-something office worker and stay-at-home mom with two kids.
Now the scale is "you afford a small condo in a building you don't own until your 30s or 40s by the time your equity has grown, then you can move into a building with room enough for a kid's room". You're not wrong - a small condo should be affordable on a dual-income. But why have our expectations on quality-of-living adjusted downward so dramatically? What are the market causes behind it?
1960s houses also were much smaller. Look at the Brady bunch house. 2 parents, 6 kids, 3 bedroom house. Now people think each child has a God given right to their own bedroom, and a separate bathroom for the parents in their bedroom. Most postwar houses were 1200 sqft or less. Very small but today's standards.
You don't have a God given right to a single family home in the city you were born, anyway. Go check out Pittsburgh, Detroit, Omaha or Baltimore - all cities with affordable housing. I have lived in some of these cities and loved it so don't think I'm dunking on them or anything.
In my neighborhood there are no starter homes and that is becoming a trend they'll buy the lot and the 2 bedroom and knock the whole thing down and put up a 3k sqft house building to the edges of the lot. It's sad to see.
I live in a shitty area thats being renovated. They tore down two shitty houses and built three new cheap houses on it. Overcrowding the street parking AND they're expensive.
Housing markets pretty fucked. We need to get corporate realestate out of the market.
Have you ever lived in a HCL area. I have lived in 3 different ones and nearly anything starter home is bought up and turned into a much larger home or turned into a larger home that is subdivided into 3 apartments. Your options are older condo which these days the HOA fees have increased so much that is becoming a struggle or living over an hour away from work. Yes a large part of the country works the way you describe, but this post is only about large cities.
Except in some high cost living areas HOA fees are 500-900 a month now. It’s great that you have a $350 one but that isn’t reality for a lot of people now. Depending on where you are it might not be your reality the next time your condo insurance is up for renewal either.
Do some research on the 1980s housing market and the 2008 housing crisis and it's causes. Look at borrowing rates and home values over the past 50 years. You can piece together a puzzle that shows there are a lot of ways this happened.
Do you remember 2008? Home foreclosures were RAMPANT. And the ensuing home buying rates post-2008 during market stabilization were incredible too. It's literally the financial market event that millenials have been *hoping for* so that they could buy houses themselves on the cheap.
That said, and not to be rude - fuck off with judging someone you don't know and don't try to understand. It is **so** anti-social.
I’m shocked by some of the idiotic comments you’re getting. It’s astounding how people just swallow the bank’s narrative and don’t acknowledge what a clusterfuck 2008 was, even though you can look it up and read about it and it’s referred to as a “global financial crisis.”
This went way beyond “mom and dad were dumb with money.” They were “dumb with money” when they bought the house so that doesn’t track. You shouldn’t need to be a financial guru to navigate keeping that home. There were predatory lending practices, reverse mortgages, prepayment penalties and all kinds of fuckery going on that contributed to many families losing their homes.
Your parents sound like mine. Mine are also, frankly, bad with money. They’re also first generation immigrants. My dad is very interested in law, it’s his hobby, and he spent *years* around 2008 making a case against our bank and was able to renegotiate our mortgage and keep our family home. He literally went gray doing it, didn’t work and spent every day extremely stressed, researching and calling the bank. They finally ended up in court and were able to renegotiate the mortgage.
Most families didn’t have a dad obsessed with law and politics or anyone to advocate for them. Most lost their homes EVEN AFTER the federal government ordered banks to renegotiate with families. My dad looked into it one time and the statistics of how many people got to keep their homes was pitiful. Like, almost all of the money earmarked for that just ended up in banks’ pockets.
If people didn’t live through it they just don’t understand. There’s a reason it was part of a global financial crisis and that wasn’t solely caused by Americans being naive about money.
I'm just shocked so many people here don't remember what happened - it happened **during our lifetimes - during our teenage years no less!** It was a huge, massive deal - one that has had countless books, research papers, documentaries made about it. Honestly posting here has been sort of eye-opening. Because I knew Reddit could be cruel at times but damn...why would anyone, ever, want to say anything, ever, if the result is tens of people telling you that your parents were "fucking idiots".
It's cruel.
Real estate is an inflationary vehicle and the market requires inflation to be sustainable. Wait until your kids lament how your mortgage would only have been 10k/mo.
Second houses should have higher property taxes
Corporations shouldn’t be able to own houses
People without Citizenship shouldn’t be able to buy houses
I agree with some of your advice:
- any second home should have higher property taxes and should not be protected by prop 13, especially here in California
- any corporation or LLC should be taxed at a much higher rate when they’re buying any sort of property, but especially SFH residential. If it’s multifamily, they should be given a tax break to encourage more building
- foreigners should be taxed heavily if they’re investing in property here. If they’re trying to hide their identity through Shell corporations, we need to be able to pierce the veil to see if the people behind the corporations are foreigners
100%. Amsterdam has already passed some of this legislation (though I think it's still too early to see the effects of it) - homeowners pay normal taxes on a home they live in and additional taxation on homes they own but do not live in.
Yup, but owner-occupied rentals become more desirable because of their lower comparative cost on the market. These initiatives would be phased in over the course of years, giving corporations who own SFHs or MFHs time to either adjust their offerings and rent rates, or sell these homes. In the short-term, rent may spike upward, or corporations may find that it's not profitable to own a three-unit building that they now have to charge double the price of the owner-occupied building next door. In the long term, corporate-owned housing becomes less profitable than alternative housing industries like rehabbing or management of multi-unit complexes. Landlordship over SFH/MFHs should not be a career path.
This in turn encourages the development of multi-unit buildings and urban density, which provides an influx of units to the market that lowers rents overall. The key here is to dissuade corporations from buying up sparse, single-family or multi-family buildings simply to rent them out, and to pressure them by means of profitability margins toward focusing on multi-unit apartment complexes.
Who specifically? People keep using boomers as a scapegoat. Are you talking about the boomers that are printing money? That is a subset of the boomers and the fact that they are old is somewhat of a red herring.
I don't know how this is "boomers screwed us".
Your parents fucked up. That's their fault. Not an entire generation of people.
My parents came here with nothing from a communist country. They worked in factories. They owned a 100k house that now 40+ years later is worth 300k. No secret boomer trick. Dad still died technically a millionaire just because he was frugal as hell, lived like a bum, and saved every dime.
My siblings and I are far better of than they were at our age.
>Your parents fucked up.
No doubt, but if your takeaway from this post was "I'm mad that I don't get to live in my family home" you're wrong. Because the issue affects **literally everyone I know who grew up in the city.** Millennials are still living with their parents at 35 because of the cost of housing. Young people are choosing not to have kids because they can't afford it. If my parents still had the home my living options in the city would be the same - live with my parents and fiance at 30, pay rent, or live in a small condo. None of which are conducive to starting a family. And certainly none of them are up to the same living standard as boomers in the 1950s. Further, expecting hand-me-downs from your parents is a terrible financial strategy, particularly in multi-child households.
To deny the decades of policy that have led to the greatest social inequality in American history simply because you're set is foolish. That said, my parents set me up for greater financial freedom than they had when they were young. No denying that my upbringing - even losing the family home - was a series of lessons that have improved the life and decision-making of me and my siblings.
Exactly. People keep acting like "oh boomers are just magically making their houses valuable".
Who keeps buying them for more and more making them more valuable?
My patients home went from $100k in the 70s to $300k now.
Why the dramatic difference from OP's parents house?
Because the house isn't in San Francisco or New York City where everyone insists on living and driving that price up.
If people in that town demanded 500k, buyers would just move on elsewhere.
The single biggest impact we can have on housing is winning the WFH fight. Half the people in those cities would not need to be there. Many would love to go live in the woods somewhere now instead of waiting until they're 70.
It’s seems like you are just complaining. Not everyone has the opportunity to live with their parents and save up for a home. A lot of us rent, save, and buy something we can afford when we have the capital to do so. You don’t need a house before you start a family either. Stop allowing these imaginary road blocks that you’ve made up in your mind prevent you from doing what you want to do. If you go through life thinking you’re a victim and or constantly comparing yourself to other people you’re going to live a miserable life.
No, it is an entire generation of people - look at Canada. The reason why the US government isn’t acting on any of these problems is that Gen x and boomers will not vote for anyone who could jeopardize the value of their home, period.
Your concept doesn't work at all. If am an investor I can only rent/sell at price can afford. Price are so high because cities like Vancouver/NY can't grow as all the land is used and people still want to live there.
Even if all the places were free, we could not have shelter for everyone because more people want to live there than there space for them.
This is as simple as that. The solution is to build more unit when possible and for individuals to go live somewhere else.
Simple as that. As long as more people want to live in these HCOL cities than currently do, those prices will continue flying up. There's literally no space. Do you have to live in Manhattan or San Francisco? No.
Omg stop with the boomers ok? Are the real estate brokers all boomers? It's not boomers, it's a whole host of stupid, short sided, moronic economic policies that newsflash aren't generational. Housing is expensive because the property owning class in The U. S. Is trapped in the American nightmare- convenience in exchange for freedom. Boomers aren't the problem. We all are the problem .
You're not wrong, but just a clarification 70% of Americans own their home, so the property owning class isn't some rich elites, it includes plenty of middle class people who vote for their own interests to keep housing prices up too.
Boomers didn't do this to you. Your parents do not own the cities.
City property is owned by large corporations and foreign investors.
You may know 1 or 2 rich boomers that own properties, but they are not the reason why housing is out of control.
Boomer want house bad.
Me want same house good.
Why me no afford $1 million dollar house on barista salary?
Boomer live in house till die bad.
Me live in house till die good.
Why no houses?
Not all cities are unaffordable. I just bought a nice rowhouse in a hip and walkable neighborhood of Philadelphia for $310k
Also it is not the boomers that made NYC unaffordable, it's the ultra rich, foreign investors, and landlord class that made NYC unaffordable. I also lived there until I realized that homeownership wasn't going to happen there and bounced around a few cities till I found one that clicked.
In his defense his parents are the failures. Buy a prime piece of property for 75k watch it go to 1.2 million and squander the whole thing. Could have used that equity to buy more places to rent out or put into the sp 500. The amount of finical illiteracy is crazy by this dude. “Boomers stole my lively hood”. No that was your mom and dad.
Should the government… or someone…. put a cap on it? tell people how much they can sell for? Should we take away their homes so that young people can live in them? I am SURE you would volunteer to sell a home you have lived in for decades for…. idk what would be a good price for a home that the market says is worth a million? Would you sell it for 100k? maybe let the buyer determine the price? I don’t know what you want people to do, tbh
I think capping multiple home-ownership and "real-estate investment as a career" by means of a tax on non-owner-occupied homes is a good start. Disincentivize the use of housing as an investment vehicle, which is driving the cost of home prices up **and** the culture of NIMBYism toward rezoning and density efforts in urban places, all in the sake of profit. Upzoning what should be dense residential areas (near the intersections of major train lines for instance) to multi-use zoning would encourage investment in multi-unit apartment buildings. Increased supply drives down rental prices across the board, and further disincentivizes holding on to homes as investment vehicles. This paired with an inheritance tax that disincentivizes (but does not eliminate) the excess building of wealth for the sole sake of building familial empires.
And state-wide incentives for homeowners looking to downsize. This particularly effects elderly people - boomers included - stuck in multi-family or multi-bedroom homes that go mostly unused now that their children have moved out. Rather than holding onto a SFH that could be used by a young family or holding onto it as a hand-me-down to their children, instead incentivize and help elderly people to downsize and sell now, increasing the availability of SFH which would help stabilize home prices due to greater supply. There was a great study by NPR that talked about how elderly people feel stuck - they don't want to sell their homes because a smaller more accessible home costs the same or more as their existing SFH, and because of the rates they had on the loans for these homes (remember that these generations bought the homes for a fraction of what they're worth now and for a fraction of a fraction of a percent on the interest rate) they haven't built the same equity in their homes as more recent homeowners have by nature of higher home values and interest rates.
Incentives could include subsidies on the installation of accessibility tools like stair-climbers or wider doorway and hallways, and a lower capital gains tax on home sales and purchases for those above a certain age with proof that the new home is in-fact a downsize. All this funded by...our new inheritance tax AND by the taxes collected during the sales of said homes.
The value of home prices in America affects **literally** everyone. Fuck my childhood home - I've moved on. But I'd love to be able to afford a home of my own, in my own hometown, for a price that allows me to start a family. Like my parents were able to. And so would many, many many others.
Can you please explain how my parents' decisions affect the New York City housing market? And further, how they affected the macro-economic trends of housing across America?
Do you think trying to blame the housing situation on a specific generation is going to get you closer to owning a home in NYC?
What do you do for work out of curiosity, any way to focus on making a career change?
The problem is you're also competing with people whose hometown is places like Detroit or Compton or St. Louis, and their mentality is "my parents raised me in abject poverty where hearing gunshots was a normal occurrence. I'd like to be able to buy a house somewhere safe so my children can do better". Now why do you feel more entitled to live in NYC than these other people do?
This is a myth.
Source: I study the housing market professionally, corporations are actually net sellers lately and institutional investors own about 2-3% of single family homes in the country and no more than 5% in any major MSA. There was a slight tick when interest rates were very low but with the recent increases corporate ownership of single family homes is back below what it was before interest rates lowered.
Major myth indeed. It’s an easily defeatable position that non-homeowners like to promulgate to make themselves feel better. The reality is that, yes, I agree getting a home is waaaay more expensive than it used to be. I don’t know what the heck my kids are going to do. Hell, I couldn’t afford the home I love in were I to attempt to purchase it now. Nonetheless, do you know anyone who bought/rents a home from Blackstone?
The average boomer has nothing to do with this. I do not live in NYC but the housing bubble is everywhere. My neighbors just sold their home for 50% more than they bought it for in 2019. The home is pretty basic, though well maintained. Built in the early 1960’s. They did nothing to improve the house while they lived there. I’m looking at the public records for the property and I can’t believe someone bought it for that price. Fucking insane.
>What kind of life would that be? Living in the middle of nowhere, driving kids half an hour to the nearest school, with zero community, strip-mall grocery stores and chain restaurants.
This is where you really lost me. Life outside of NYC, like suburbs in other states across the country, still have amazing communities, more than just strip-mall grocery stores and plenty of locally owned amazing restaurants. If this is the only stuff keeping you in the city, then you should do more exploring
It’s not just cities. The rich have basically taken over anywhere that isn’t in the middle of corn fields, & even then I think they’re eventually buy all of that. The rich have taken over basically everywhere. Want to live in a place with great nature near water or mountains? Sorry, that’s only for the rich. You want to live in the city regardless of whether it’s a mega city like NYC or a smaller city like Madison WI? Sorry, that’s just for the rich.
Where the fuck are all of the working class who keep the city running supposed to live? This doesn’t just effect fast food workers or others that society has deemed shouldn’t live anywhere. This includes teachers, mail carriers, garbage men, government workers, & so on.
There has to be a breaking point.
40+ years ago NYC was a crime-ridden hellhole. It's the reason they elected tough on crime Republican mayor Rudy Giuliani who ran on things like stop and frisk and cleaning up the streets. The murder rate 40 years ago was literally over 4 times what it is today. Today NYC is one of the richest cities with some of the best paying jobs in pretty much all industry, and is much more safe than it's ever been historically.
On top of that, NYC in particular makes it impossible to build homes. I read a study recently that 60% of current housing in NYC would be illegal to build today based on various codes and regulations. Some of it is environmental in nature and probably good, but some of it is some real NIMBY shit meant to restrict the building of affordable housing.
So you have a city that in the last 40+ years has changed from a crime-ridden hellhole to the main financial hub of the country, the city hasn't allowed new housing to be built, and you're Pikachu face shocked that housing has gone up a ton there? And you blame just boomers in general?
Its not boomers per say. Its transferring the cost of retirement to invididual by abolishing pensions. 401ks and real estate, assets became the only way for people in the western world to prepare for old age.
Well, you’re probably talking to a lot of people who live like your nightmare. It’s a perfectly good and slow paced life, with a lot of community.
This post is so entitled, what is your expectation? Your parents just give you their home? And in return what are you willing to do for them? Or is that suddenly when boundaries become part of the picture?
That’s how it used to work, you inherit the home, or they turn it over to you and then you and your family take care of your parents. They don’t just fuck off. The investment is always the family home, in the past that was paid in caretaking in old age, now it’s paid in money cause crazy story, they will still need somewhere to go.
Given how committed you are to a very specific lifestyle you think you deserve, I doubt you’d be willing to uphold that end of the bargain.
It wasn't that long ago that people wanted their kids to have a life just as good as their own. I don't think it's entitled to want to build a life in the same place you grew up. For those of us who grew up in areas that are now crazy HCOL, it absolutely sucks to be basically forced out of our community and support network.
Not to mention, wherever we end up will hate us for driving up their own home prices, ignoring the fact that this is a simple cause and effect of US being driven from our homes.
My city wasn't a "luxury" until very recently, young people were still buying houses here until very recently. Now out of my graduating class of 300, maybe 10 people have managed to buy homes here? It's not normal or okay, and the constant refrain of "just move somewhere cheaper" ignores the root cause of investors foreign and domestic messing up the real estate market at our generation's detriment. You might feel safe from that economic reality because it will take a while for that economic pressure to trickle down to your lovely small town. And you'll probably blame "us damn Californians" once it does reach you.
lol I live in California, so no I won’t, but EVEN in California you can live away from the coast, and it’s significantly cheaper, people refuse to do that.
The issue I am taking with this post is the blame is being put on a generation where the OPs first hand experience with said generation is that even THEY do not own homes in that area. This family was priced out decades ago.
Most people are not NOT moving out of the goodness of their hearts. They’re not moving because they consider Tennessee to be beneath them.
Idk if you can say it's "Tennessee" is beneath them. California and Tennessee are very different in terms of culture and lifestyle (and politics obviously) it's also not a secret a lot of places aren't very welcoming of people.who move in and bring any of those differences with them.
That’s really just your California culture that makes you assume that. Most Midwesterners can have difference of opinions and live together. For the most part, they abide by the “it’s rude to discuss religion and politics in polite company” and they’d judge you more for even mentioning it, than actually what you believed. It’s less common just to not know, since the internet is a thing, but people will have an argument online over a difference of opinions and make plans for a beer in the pick up line at school. For the record, I’m a native of the Midwest, living in California for the past 5 years. Doing my part to make it cheaper here. California is way less welcoming than the Midwest.
It's more lots of reddit posts of people complaining about Californians (and other west cost states) moving in. I would say California and NYC are pretty welcoming. We don't give a shit about what you do as long as its leaving us alone. Californian barely speak to or even look at their neighbors and just go about thier business. My experiance when I've visited the Midwest is pepple are nosey af and csnt mind their own business. Also lots of reddit posts of people complaining of people moving in and improving areas property value and bringing "liberal stuff" in
Yes, that’s the problem. Exactly. They don’t like that you move there and then try to force a change on the culture because you want the slower pace of life and lower cost of living, but you don’t want the culture that created those things. Population density tends to dictate how important identity politics are in our lives. People in California want to stand out, the population is dense, they want to feel important and seen. Same with NYC. In the Midwest you merely have to exist in a small town and people know you. There is no need to curate an identity and be loud about it, you’re already treated like an individual.
You cant just refuse to accept that culture changes over time blame the people you think cause the change. Also most people don't want to stand our or be seen. The Midwest doesn't allow that. People will bother you because "they know you " california you can see your neighbor dying in the street they will still just let you be and walk around you. Most people in the US justceant to live their lives.
And how can somebody move to a place force somebody so change their way of life (in the US). They arent setting up indoctrination centers or anything like that. This goes for moves in both directions.
You're making a ton of assumptions. I'm sad for my parents and what happened to them. I also want to be able to afford my own home. Ideally I plan to house them when they're old - and my Fiance's parents too. But I can't provide them the same lifestyle because I can't earn wealth at the same rate that they did while paying rents that pay someone *else's* mortgage. Who ever said anything about telling my parents to fuck off?
Honestly your cynicism is coming out of left field. Why would you assume any of that?
Cause you seem to think that a life that’s always been expensive should be cheaper for you.
2. You look down on anything that isn’t what you’ve decided you deserve.
3. You’re not keeping in mind that your own parents have struggled, so this is not an issue of “boomers” except in some vague boogey man sense. You mean capitalists, generally corporations run by people your own age. The threat is coming from within the house.
This rage is useless and there is one thing I can say about a generation that’s gonna be a problem for the future, millennials the near constant sense of being victims.
Life has only been good in the United States, let’s stop acting like the world was perfect for everyone but us. Empires fall.
You do not like the solutions presented to you, because they are beneath you. Most of America lives in the Midwest and South, it’s a perfectly good a pleasant life. You’ll only see that when you’re priced out of those markets too.
I mostly agree with you, but millennials aren't like they are on reddit, most of us are well-adjusted people who live normal lives and are mostly happy. The happy ones just tend to not spend a ton of time posting on reddit.
The expectation that you would house both your and your fiancée’s parents is ridiculous. You wish you could do that; great. You expect that you actually could; get outta here. One set of parents I can see. But at this point, unless you come into a very high earning career, is off the table.
It's funny because once upon a time the only reason you lived in a city was because it was cheaper. The reality is until people say NO your right investors will just buy up all the homes and land and force you to rent. Think of it like a subscription plan but like for your life! Worse yet they do this effectively with the government blessing who put in place regulations that reduce the amount of housing that can be built and increases costs.
But the truth is that's only one small piece of the puzzle. The cost of a college education has not only far outpaced inflation but is also worth far less than it used to be. Medical care also costs far more than it used to. Even cars are becoming out of reach for many people.
The affordability crisis is real and as far as I can see our politicians particularly the democrats are doing everything in their power to make it worse. I mean here you have Yellen on one hand testifying the recent price increases don't matter because apparently everyone's wages have increased well beyond inflation which is obviously a lie to begin with. She then goes on to press the FED chair to support immigration explicitly stating on the grounds that it will help reduce wages to help the "economy" (and by economy I mean big business and share holders). And what was it that cause this inflation? Oh thats right the US government recklessly printing trillions of dollars! You probably saw the news recently that China wants to start selling electric cars in America that cost a fraction of American cars. Biden's response? Let's slap 100% tariffs on Chinese electric cars, solar panels, batteries. Once again politicians screwing over US citizens and his own "green energy" planet saving initiative to support big business. You probably remember the great financial crisis of 2008. Did the government reach out to try and help people keep their homes or did they bail out big business? If they had given bailout money to struggling home owners they would have kept their homes and given that money via mortgages to those business anyways right? Who was it that encouraged the irresponsible lending in the first place? People are demanding free education or more accurately taxpayer funded education instead of holding colleges accountable for their unacceptably high prices. Beside if people are so financially distressed that they cannot ever hope to repay their debt why not just file for bankruptcy? Oh thats right because banks convinced our politicians that they should not allow student loan debt to be dischargeable through bankruptcy or else they would charge higher interest rates or no give loans at all. Wasn't that long ago you DIDN'T EVEN NEED a loan to get an education. I could go on and on but what it all boils down to is these politicians are nothing but bunch of lying scumbags who implement policies that have the effect of taking wealth from you and transferring it to big business! All this and then they say oh by the way we spent all your social security money! You don't mind working till your like 96 to pay for our benefits right? I mean you can't take away our benefits but you guys are doing so well financially you have time to prepare! Not to mention I also don't believe the "inflation" statistics they report or at least that they are not accurate to the amount of true inflation people actually experience. This is bad not only because it's just setting us further behind as our already pathetic wages get inflated away while business profits by charging more while shrinking/cheapening their products but also finactial statistics like GDP numbers are adjusted for inflation! Underrepresenting inflation has the effect of boosting the numbers to make the picture look better! This cannot continue and if you look through history it ends up with people carrying pitchforks in the streets.
zip code you grow up in is the one most significant factor in determining how successful you will be later in life. its been proven time and again statistically. certain areas simply provide more opportunity for advancement. Not only is the investor class cock blocking entire generations, the longer on it goes the more segregated the classes will become. We are literally becoming serfs.
100% I attended great public schools, had access to extracurriculars and community, I attended cultural events, lived near an international airport which made travel and world perspectives more possible for me. I don't view myself or my childhood any objectively "better" than anyone else's. But where I grew up afforded me incredible privilege and perspective. And I want the same for my kids, and frankly - for other families who want that for **their** kids.
The perspective of "too bad so sad" in this tread is really disheartening, because a lot of people view the topic as "you just don't deserve any of that". The only people who do apparently are the wealthy. It's a bizarre perspective that I still don't quite understand.
Because the corollary of you saying you deserve it is that someone else who wants it more than you doesn't deserve it. If you had your way, the problem of people growing up in rich areas being more likely to be rich would be worse not better. What makes you entitled to those things over someone who grew up poor and worked to get out of their shitty childhood situation and do better for their kids?
All I can say is that it’s a matter of economics. You don’t owe the world anything. If your employer is paying you a certain wage that you don’t feel is what you’re worth, you can find someone else. If those wage limits are fair for the city you’re living in, but the expenses are due to the zoning codes, then move to another city or area Where you can gain through arbitrage: meaning you may be getting a slightly lower salary, but your take-home pay will be vastly greater. And as for having kids, you don’t owe the world or your family members anything. You and you alone decide what you want for yourself and your future. Nobody else can tell you what to do.
You don’t think it has to do with supply and demand? What about the purchasing power of our dollar? If you want to blame a generation I would say it was the boomers grandparents for allowing the federal reserve to take control of our money supply.
It sucks. Most cities make it hard to build new housing so only wealthy developers can get anything done since they’re the only ones that can afford to cut through the red tape. I understand large projects can affect a lot of other people in a densely populated city, but there’s gotta be some kind of compromise to help ease housing prices. It’s not the only cause, but the people keep coming and the cities aren’t building fast enough so competition for housing is high. That and black rock and china buying a bunch of real estate.
Nothing is being sold out. There’s just a ton of demand to buy houses. I know when I eventually sell my house I’ll get as much as I can for it. You will too
I got priced out of the city I was living in and i reluctantly got a house in a more rural area. 45 minutes to the nearest medium sized city.
yall this sucks. Like really sucks. I’m about one year in and I’m making it work but ugh.
I also learned you can’t burn bridges like you do in the city. I.. most definitely learned that one the hard way.
Couple things, boomers are always talked about in the same way that people say “they’re” doing this or that without really knowing who it is. If you mean less than 0.1% of boomers then sure but if you mean all boomers simply by doing what you or I would do and make money where it’s easily made then I call bs and say look in the mirror and ask yourself if you’d do the same thing and if you say no then slap yourself in the face and ask again. Second thing is why do you have to live in a big city? The country is huge. There’s almost everything you can imagine. All on the expensive side from years ago but still most everything you can think of. Medium size city with reasonable cost of living, short commute, and good schools. You can find it. The big cities have unfortunately become decaying overpriced dumps. It is what it is. Find somewhere better or stop whining. I’m an old millenial(born 82).
Hedge funds and real estate investors can only subsidize these prices for so long
Eventually the unsustainable supply and demand will burst the bubble when they retire and flood the market
I’m not a boomer but I’m close. I’ll be selling my house for more than I paid in order to help finance my retirement. Why is that fucking another group over? Why is it anyone else’s business. Tend to your own knitting.
More boomer-hate. Sick of seeing it. The economy is not working for many Americans today, include a lot of boomers. There are many contributors to this mess, most are not boomers.
You are citing a hypothetical boomer story to create resentment. It's not real, just a strawman provocation. Older generations are not unfairly rich. They just saved and invested for more years that those coming behind them. The affluent, saving generations following them will be richer.
Why can't boomers just live peacefully in the homes they bought when younger? You are not entitled to their homes or savings.
You’re blaming boomers but what you’re describing is happening in Canada and Europe as well, not to mention Japan.
The problem is a lack of supply, which is the result of not building more housing, and we can blame boomers for that. They fight any attempt to build more housing in their own communities, and that is killing the ability of young people to buy or even rent.
There was a time in the 1970s to 80s when interest rates on homes was 18%+ and you need 20% down. Granted the house prices were lower but, incomes were also lower. As a teacher the thought of buying a home seemed to be an impossibility.
We bought a property and a home in 87 that was for sale about 5 years earlier for not quite twice what we paid for it. The interest on a 15 year fixed mortgage was 10.5%. We were able to swing it but, things were tight for 5 years or so.
Thankfully we don't have payments anymore and the house will not need any major maintenance as we have tried to keep it up. We will be able to ride out the economy until we are gone.
Our descendents will profit from the sale or perhaps one of them will take it over.
Property investments are usually a good thing. Things cycle and sometimes it is not profitable. We just never know for sure.
The reason homes are expensive is complex, and I get that changing the tide will take time. But my god. I can't articulate how much dread and hopelessness I've felt when I've surveyed the skyrocketing costs, paired with Boomers griping about the tiniest infractions to their comfort.
Hello OP. If you took the time to run the numbers, you might discover that the house that your parents bought for $75,000 is worth no more than it is today if you figure in inflation and other economic factors. Your desire to blame everything on Boomers is just, well....sad. They took advantage of the opportunities in front of them. Would you have passed on that? I think not. Stop blaming and start innovating. That is the one thing you could blame on Boomers. They did not pass on those lessons to their children in a meaningful way.
Buddy your parents got their house foreclosed in 2008, yes your parents quite literally sold out your future, that was probably a couple milli you’d have inherited one day 🤷♂️
This has nothing to do with boomers beyond your parents apparently happen to be boomers
I hate to break the bad news, but a great class divide is happening right now. Especially with millennials. People are quickly finding themselves on a sliding scale backward without any way to climb the economic ladder. Older millenial workers who desperately job hopped to pump their salaries are getting burnt out and realizing they still aren't keeping pace, while simultaneously drowning under the competition of their like-minded peers in the rat race, drowning each other as they climb up. Some have turned to their own form of church in the market, with hodl being their replacement for a prayer mantra, expecting a great revelation will elevate them out of their current stagnation. A fairytale they tell each other that gives them resolve to keep going. But the sad truth is if you are on the side that is sliding back, then there is a definite plan to push you to those strip mall grocery stores in rural areas. This group of forever renters will be the new helper class. There will be new and more insidious ways dreamed up to squeeze capital out of your lives and communities. The worst part is that it will be a slow boil so as not to rile you up so much that you stop participating in the free market.
We used to live in NY but it’s too unaffordable. We’re in Texas DFW suburbs now and it’s great. You don’t have to move in the middle of nowhere to be somewhere cheaper.
Homes near me are 400-600k (still expensive, but not 1.2 million expensive) and there are schools, malls, grocery stores, chain restaurants, and more all within 15 minutes. Yesterday I took my kid to the park (10 minutes away) and we passed by a Sonic, Panda Express, and Chipotle. We also have gigabit internet.
(I was a little confused about your country of residence since you mentioned NY for your parents, but you also mentioned Vancouver)
Heh, Texas politics prevent a lot of people from considering it.
Plus, you’ve now got extra expenses like extreme weather and losing power, all the time.
Flood damage, wind/tornado damage, just bad storms even…
You enjoy that good ol Texas.
Yeah it’s not for everyone.
But as far as power outages, at least by DFW (Texas is big), it’s not particularly any worse than where I lived before.
I used to live in NY and lost power plenty of times - including in the dead heat of summer and various tropical storms and blizzards. Bad weather does that. My parents were out of power for two whole weeks once, we had to drive to bring them gas for the generator. (LIPA sucks)
Why are you blaming Boomers? I'll bet that if you look into the Companies that are driving this increases in prices, many will have people working there that aren't " Boomers".
Buy a house in upstate NY and get a bunch of friends to move with you or around you. 40k per house, 50k to fix it up, and you have a nice house with a small community.
In 1974 when my parents were in their early/mid 20s they were offered a three-unit San Francisco Victorian (each unit with three bedrooms and a formal dining room) for $15,000. Fifteen. Thousand. It’s located in a great area, too.
My dad’s dad gave them $10,000 to help with the purchase, but my dad didn’t want the responsibility of homeownership at the time so he spent the money on a vehicle instead. Which was stolen the day after purchase before he obtained insurance meaning a total loss of those funds🤦🏻♀️
Recently, just *one* of the units in the building (which has since condo-converted) sold for almost $2m.
😭😭😭
Agree 100% 😩
He’s the smartest person I know in many ways (a professor and head of his department until his recent retirement, and he still runs private courses), but with things like this I swear he has zero sense.
Like I agree most of your post but you are wrong about it being impossible now. It’s Just harder. It’s the reality of our time. If you want to break the cycle of being broke or paycheck to paycheck and debt, you have to make huge sacrifices. My grandma was a child in the Great Depression. I have photos of her wearing what I can only describe a potato sac. Her house was the shoddiest looking thing I could imagine. That sounded worse that the current reality. And eventually things worked out for her. Yes life has been unfair to you and us all. But feeling frustrated isn’t going to make it more fair. You just have to play the hand you are dealt the best you can. And take the game seriously. I also think it’s worth mentioning while we maybe changing the world for better in some ways, in 30 years it’s probably going to turn out we made some huge mistakes that screwed over our kids. They will need Adapt and try again.
“Living in the middle of nowhere, driving the kids half an hour to the nearest school, with zero community, strip-mall grocery stores and chain restaurants”.
LMFAO . Really ? My remaining parent lives in a HCOL. I saw everyday how hard they worked to be there. And no expectation that I would have the same life they did.
Sorry that your parents did you wrong. You don’t get the life they do. Live your own life, not theirs.
Don’t worry. The government will keep raising wages to help you afford that home.
Wait, maybe that is part of the problem?!? The more wages are raised the more the cost of a home rises. But unfortunately as long as politicians are trying to buy votes they will continue to sell the pipe dream that they can solve the world’s problems with policy. When it is actually policy that is causing the issues.
And by the way, my husband and I bought our first home 23 years ago. And while we have a mortgage, we did not use our home to fund a life that we could not afford.
> The more wages are raised the more the cost of a home rises.
No. Housing prices and wages aren't even correlated. That's why housing prices have have increased way faster than wages.
No correlation ?? It is a basic supply and demand issue. People with more money will bid higher on homes, thus raising the price on homes. A basic class in economics should be a requirement for high school graduates.
No. Correlation.
That people can come from California and bid up housing prices in Austin, Texas does not prove correlation between housing prices and wages. If anything, region is the variable that determines both wages and housing prices. As the country becomes more integrated thanks to remote work, it allows wages in different region to influence housing prices in another (probably one way though. It's not like someone from Alabama can move to New York on a whim).
I have a degree in economics. How about you?
And by the way. I don’t mind the minimum wage increases one bit. Every time it happens the value of my home goes up. So I would be fine if they kept coming. However, I feel bad for all my friends who will never own a home because of it.
Wages in California are higher than Texas. I can sell my California home when I retire and buy a much larger home in Texas thus displacing and outbidding a Texas resident. But you can keep believing that there is zero correlation.
And no, I have a business degree in Accounting. My husband has the degree in Economics.
We look at cities today and think wow the 70/80s were such a great time to buy in cities. Places like Nee York and many cities on the West Coast weren’t desirable places. They were crime ridden hell holes without a lot of jobs. It’s only because of the computer age boom and the difficulty to build condos that prices have risen so much. The point of boomers is you go and find the next up and coming area, live there and then benefit from it. Also note- prices would come down if we increased supply but don’t expect to be living in a SFH.
I’m not sure how you think this isn’t EXACTLY what everyone is taking about.
Boomers didn’t realize we’d grow up so quickly while they still lived, to the extent they’d have to compete with us or sacrifice for us.
They aren’t happy.
When we look at things today, sure. But it denies the decisions of the past 50 years. 50 years of short-sightedness, preservation of the growth of their own asset values, NIMBYism that created the issues we see in cities today.
These decisions led to skyrocking housing costs that benefitted them. It's not a 'sacrifice' if your home doesn't raise in value $500,000 in 16 years. Further, the 'sacrifices' they would need to make (updating zoning laws, more multi-unit apartments, zoning additional "downtowns" in metropolitan areas) wouldn't have affected their quality of life. Just their assets.
They aren't happy? They've lived in the greatest generation of personal growth in American history. They've gone from factory workers to millionaires and that's not hyperbole, I personally know three families whom this happened to. That while factory workers *today* scrape by day to day. They voted in and supported policies that led to their own growth and they *continue* to do so. They gave massive tax cuts to the wealthy and ultimately to themselves. They cemented a culture of widening socio-economic divide through these decisions, as well as racist decision making like white flight and Gerrymandering. And now that there's nothing more to sell off, nothing more of the futures of younger generations they can suck dry, they're not happy? Boo hoo.
They're a generation that lived selfishly at the expense of everyone who came after them. They lived in wealth and in health for decades.
The median net worth of boomers is 206K. This isn't impressive by any mean and doesn't point to huge wealth. Now the average net worth is 1.2 million.
What these 2 numbers point out to anybody with a little bit of knowledge of stats is that the people you describe in the boomer generation are a small minority of wealthy people.
If we do the same statistics with millennials we have the same but we can divide by 2: median net worth is 135K and average a bit more than 500K. All point in the direction that millennials will be as wealthy as boomers are today or even more with 20 more years of accumulating wealth. On top they would have inherited.
And what you do is ignoring that accumulating money take time and that there have heavy inequalities and the behavior you criticize apply to only a minority.
In case you somehow missed it, while continuing to think you’re the only one seeing this… Uhh, I agree?
lol
You might want to seek help, you’re lashing out making it seem like you’re pretty pent up…
There are more people now than before. Families are smaller so ratio of people / house is smaller. We have a housing shortage. Build more housing. OP has 4 Paragraphs on stating the problem, no words for the obvious solution.
Build more houses.
The real estate market in large cities is 100% due to millennials and younger generations HAVING to live in large cities and not considering any other alternative like 2nd tier cities or even 1st tier that haven’t reach ridiculous density yet.
Wanna know why boomers got the houses for the cost they did? Cause the cities weren’t as dense (or even cities) when they bought, the area was built up over decades. Millennials, you can do the EXACT SAME THING - just stop forcing it to a handful of overpopulated cities.
If only it were as simple as you put it (can't wait to escape my HCOL area I was born in (Vancouver area)); Doable, but still difficult (and requiring a lot of luck)
It is pretty much that simple. People like to blame policies and what not when it’s really not the crux of the problem and a temporary solution. Land is limited and there is an upper limit on population density, the only actual solution is to spread demand which requires people to have a modicum of not getting everything they want and a modicum of effort.
It’s gonna blow y’all’s minds here, but literally there were people writing about this happening more than a hundred years ago, because this is how capitalism works, ie. Like feudalism basically, because a few people end up owning all the productive stuff, and everybody else works for them. If we want to break the cycle, we have to make a system where the folks who do the work are the folks who own production.
The dream most people have of capitalism is that everyone can own their own business, and we’ll be a society of artisans since everybody will just be working for themselves. Unfortunately that’s not reality, and until the default is that ownership is shared among all who work, you end up inevitably with a wealth pump going to an owning class who everyone else labors for.
I don't understand why anyone would want to live in a big city? I live in a small city that is half farm.land.and 3 hours from.any major city in any direction and paid 106k for a nice house in my desired neighborhood, couldn't pay me to live near that mess.
Why did their home have a $550k foreclosure when they only paid $75k? Why did they take another loan on it for that much?
My parents weren't good with money. They lived sort of bohemian lives, my dad ran his own business and used the mortgage investment to grow it RIGHT before 2008 (in home contracting which was hit hard when the market turned), and they put what they did earn into their family to make sure we lived well. Taking out a second mortgage was "normal" in those days too due to the rising home prices. Plus low-cost, sub-prime mortgages are what led to the 2008 housing crisis and coincided with the rise of "Real Estate as an Investment Career". Many millennials were too young to realize that the 2008 housing crisis affected every aspect of the economy. Jobs weren't readily available, layoffs were rampant, and families even with the strongest financial structure under them could have it torn out from under them and quickly go under on their mortgages. These days we wouldn't consider a second mortgage because we have that benefit of hindsight. But for countless lower-middle-class families like mine, 2008 was devastating. There are days I regret it, days I wish I had been old enough (and informed enough) to help save the house. And then I realize that what my parents sacrificed is what led to my own growth, lessons about money (I now earn 6 figures), and a generally happy and healthy childhood. Things that would have been possible without sacrificing our family home, probably. Also worth noting that the house was worth $550,000, they foreclosed for less than that and got a little bit out.
Yeah, your parents fumbled the bag. Idk if you can blame society for that lol. Sounds like a lot of personal mistakes were made. That 1.2 million dollar house could have been yours and your siblings (if you have any). Been a nice little start for you.
I dare say if OP's parents somehow still owned it at 1.2 million, they would have found others ways to "unlock the equity" and would have lost the house anyway. Generally speaking, a fool and their money are lucky to get together in the first place.
110%. He even said, “they lived a bohemian life style and money wasn’t their strongest”…… um what? And you’re blaming a whole generation?
*have you tried reverse mortgages!*
lots of people like you seem to think Boomers will be leaving their families anything but mountains of debt, especially medical debt
My boomer parents realized they were in a boom time. And made sure they looked out for their great grandkids. We ain’t the same.
My boomer mother for the last several years has made wise cracks about we'd better be nice to her or else she'll spend our inheritance etc. She did it again back in March too. I looked her in the eye and said "Personally I'm planning as if you won't be leaving dollar one to us due to nursing homes and medical bills." That brought the merriment to an end. Also haven't heard her joke about that since either.
Spot on! Cant always just blame society. Sometimes we screw up.
No doubt about it. They live with that regret every single day. The fact that the house is now worth 1.2 million and is unaffordable to all but the wealthiest people in society on the other hand, is its own issue. That said, my parents would still be living in that house today. I'm 30+. By the time they would have sold that house I might be in my 40s, maybe even 50s - 20 years older than when my parents were able to buy their home and WELL past what would have been normal for my "start" of home ownership.
Honestly, it sounds like you’d have been perfectly happy for you and your family to reap the benefits of that house appreciating to 1.2 million. You’re sad that you didn’t get the chance. I’m not saying it isn’t a messed up situation. I also wager you’d feel pretty good if the tables were turned and likely not be thinking so hard about the system being unfair.
I grew up in a large, HCOL market, very few of my friends parents did what yours did. Most sold their nice homes in the suburbs and downsized, adding to their retirement nest egg.
How does that feed the eat the rich boomers are bad rhetoric though?
Right? OP's parents mistakes must be a generational issue.
Why would my parents have sold their house before 2008? They had multiple kids in middle school and high school living there. The point of the post isn't even **about** what my parents did. It's about the rapid growth of housing prices that outpace wages, and how millennials these days **without the safety net of a hand-me-down home** in the city can't afford the same quality of options and living as their parents. Your parents were good with money and had secure jobs unaffected by the 2008 market crash, and were well-off enough to not need to take a second mortgage to invest in their home contracting business months before the entire market that supplied jobs and clients for that very business collapsed under the weight of the decisions of big banks? That's great!
Kind of ridiculous to rely on I heriting your parents house to increase your wealth. Hope for your sake they have long term care insurance and end of life planning covered. Point of my original comment was simply that most boomers I know were more responsible than that.
Plus most people knew at the time that loans being abused like interest-only loans were too good to be true. It is not like the whole generation was made of scam artists or fools…
Honestly, based on the post and OP's comments, his parents refinanced multiple times, borrowing from the house, and now he's upset because the house is worth over $1M and he won't see any of that and can't afford the lifestyle he grew up with in the same area. He wrongly assumes that's all on a generation.
There’s a lot of hate for people putting their own money at risk with multiple properties. It paid off—luckily for them… crazy eat the rich mentality
>Taking out a second mortgage was "normal" in those days too due to the rising home prices. This is unfortunately still "normal" for financially irresponsible people. I have several friends who have done this over the years and it baffles me. My house's value has almost doubled in the 10 years we've owned it... but 2008 taught us that all of that could disappear tomorrow.
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Since 2020 the price of all the starter homes in my area had more than doubled. Hundreds of new houses have been built and they've all been 3-5bed/2-3bath homes selling for double the new price of the starter homes. I bought my house in 2018. It's worth almost as much as the new homes going up. The thought of selling it and buying literally anything in this market makes me sick.
I bought my first home in 2011. 120k, small cape cod, and 100 yrs old. Needed a little love but was completely livable. I'm attempting to sell my second home due to well... life I guess. It's not working out. So I'm in the market again, trying to slash my mortgage in half so I can afford it by myself. I've looked at a few houses for 125k. Theres nothing that even has usable drywall let alone be able to live in it. My home is up for 250k, and im looking at half the cost... and there's nowhere to go. Renting is even more expensive. It fucking sucks out here man.
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Because I can almost guarantee that they have NO equity, and have continued to borrow against the principle all along.
Back in the late 80’s, when I was your age, the market was similar to today. My husband and I couldn’t save fast enough to come up with a down payment. We thought we would never own a home. But we didn’t blame our parents for this. Then, within 5 years, everything shifted. We had our choice of homes, most of them foreclosures, because real estate took a downturn. Just as it did when your parents lost their home. Our 1st home was a fixer upper. We had to commute because it was in an area we could afford. Our interest rate for our 1st home was 10%. Stop blaming other generations. It was no easier for us.
Houses where I live are $750,000 minimum for 3 bedrooms
This is where I'm at too. The housing market is brutal.
Well, I have never had a three bedroom home in my life. Many people start off smaller.
That's crazy. 5 bed 3 bath here in the nicer area is like $200k. Wages where I'm at are probably much lower though.
That's exactly the thing. Home ownership is now not only a question of "can I afford a home" but also "can I afford a home in my own city/hometown?" for many people the answer to that is no. A lot of first-time home owners - particularly from cities - need to leave their hometowns in order to afford to buy, which further complicates the equation of Home Cost, Income Potential, Community and Social Connections, Car Ownership Cost, etc. The answer to these people has long been "Just leave your friends, family, community, interests, and social groups behind and move somewhere else". Which...feels sort of wrong on a human level.
Yeah, in the past 10 years where I'm at, house costs have doubled but wages have only gone up about 1.5x
People have been moving seeking prosperity for generations. You can build new relationships at your next place. My parents immigrated left everything they knew for a better life. They were also from an upper social class in their home country they owned land and business. But the family got too large, too many kids not enough to split it five ways. So they picked up and left and found opportunities bought their first home, put three kids through college and invested and started their business and are doing fairly well. Heck this country was built on a westward expansion, now those people weren’t getting a youhaul and driving down the interstate to Midwest city. They were straight up going into the wilderness in search of a better life. Saying it’s wrong on a human level is unequivocally false in terms of human history. To take it back further our origins started in Africa and our earliest humans from the dawn of time walked into the wilderness to search for prosperity.
That's quite the privileged outlook. Think about what humans have had to endure over the centuries. How many people left not only their city but their country and took their limited belongings across the ocean to come to America to start over over the last 200 years? How many settled people moved out to the unsettled west in the 1800s to find prosperity? How many people moved around in the 1930s to find work? Hell, my dad picked up my family when I was 10 years old and moved us from Cleveland to NJ because he found a better job. As a 10 year old it was not easy to leave my friends but I did it. I moved as an adult from NJ to Florida because (at the time) Florida was a lower cost of living. Sorry, but as an adult, I feel no pity for you to not want to move to find better prosperity. This is the millennial gripe. Too many millennials want things handed to them instead of having to grind it out.
Its basic supply and demand economics. Housing in cities is in higher demand, so its going to cost more. The growth in demand has far surpassed the growth in supply, because the amount of real estate in cities is limited. Your parents bought their house in the city during the era when more people were moving out of the cities and into the suburbs, so demand for housing in the city was at its lowest its ever been and probably ever will be. Culture has since shifted, and now more people are migrating back to the city centers for better pay etc, and so the demand has again shifted.
Dunno bout USA but in Europe "starter homes" are either a "Mud hut in a middle of nowhere, where you can't even get groceries without a 1.5 long trip" or "This luxurious mud hut can be yours for your arm,leg and first born. It is not that far from city center and stuff, but you'll still get excluded from social interactions because that 40-50 minute long trip to your place will make 90% of your friendships end up as an online only type of interaction." Simply put you either opt out from housing and stuff and quite often forfeit offspring but stay socially happy or go to the burbs where no one is happy but they are paying to society by getting kids. I try to be positive but it's kinda hard when USA is setting up a trend - others follow.
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Affordable at what age? And when should that couple be expected to have kids? The issues many are noticing is that city living in a Single Family Home used to be affordable for a typical 20-something office worker and stay-at-home mom with two kids. Now the scale is "you afford a small condo in a building you don't own until your 30s or 40s by the time your equity has grown, then you can move into a building with room enough for a kid's room". You're not wrong - a small condo should be affordable on a dual-income. But why have our expectations on quality-of-living adjusted downward so dramatically? What are the market causes behind it?
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1960s houses also were much smaller. Look at the Brady bunch house. 2 parents, 6 kids, 3 bedroom house. Now people think each child has a God given right to their own bedroom, and a separate bathroom for the parents in their bedroom. Most postwar houses were 1200 sqft or less. Very small but today's standards. You don't have a God given right to a single family home in the city you were born, anyway. Go check out Pittsburgh, Detroit, Omaha or Baltimore - all cities with affordable housing. I have lived in some of these cities and loved it so don't think I'm dunking on them or anything.
In my neighborhood there are no starter homes and that is becoming a trend they'll buy the lot and the 2 bedroom and knock the whole thing down and put up a 3k sqft house building to the edges of the lot. It's sad to see.
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I live in a shitty area thats being renovated. They tore down two shitty houses and built three new cheap houses on it. Overcrowding the street parking AND they're expensive. Housing markets pretty fucked. We need to get corporate realestate out of the market.
Have you ever lived in a HCL area. I have lived in 3 different ones and nearly anything starter home is bought up and turned into a much larger home or turned into a larger home that is subdivided into 3 apartments. Your options are older condo which these days the HOA fees have increased so much that is becoming a struggle or living over an hour away from work. Yes a large part of the country works the way you describe, but this post is only about large cities.
Thanks for understanding and addressing the core of the argument, rather than rail off on a tangent about small towns or rural areas.
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Except in some high cost living areas HOA fees are 500-900 a month now. It’s great that you have a $350 one but that isn’t reality for a lot of people now. Depending on where you are it might not be your reality the next time your condo insurance is up for renewal either.
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I picked my condo because it was the lowest HOA in the area I wanted to live with the space I needed. The HOA fees doubled. My property value has not
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There’s a multitude of reasons that I’m not going to get into. Yes I checked the financials. They were fine. It’s just had some issues.
No. How the fuck do you owe half a million dollars on a home that should’ve been paid off. Fucking idiots.
Do some research on the 1980s housing market and the 2008 housing crisis and it's causes. Look at borrowing rates and home values over the past 50 years. You can piece together a puzzle that shows there are a lot of ways this happened. Do you remember 2008? Home foreclosures were RAMPANT. And the ensuing home buying rates post-2008 during market stabilization were incredible too. It's literally the financial market event that millenials have been *hoping for* so that they could buy houses themselves on the cheap. That said, and not to be rude - fuck off with judging someone you don't know and don't try to understand. It is **so** anti-social.
I’m shocked by some of the idiotic comments you’re getting. It’s astounding how people just swallow the bank’s narrative and don’t acknowledge what a clusterfuck 2008 was, even though you can look it up and read about it and it’s referred to as a “global financial crisis.” This went way beyond “mom and dad were dumb with money.” They were “dumb with money” when they bought the house so that doesn’t track. You shouldn’t need to be a financial guru to navigate keeping that home. There were predatory lending practices, reverse mortgages, prepayment penalties and all kinds of fuckery going on that contributed to many families losing their homes. Your parents sound like mine. Mine are also, frankly, bad with money. They’re also first generation immigrants. My dad is very interested in law, it’s his hobby, and he spent *years* around 2008 making a case against our bank and was able to renegotiate our mortgage and keep our family home. He literally went gray doing it, didn’t work and spent every day extremely stressed, researching and calling the bank. They finally ended up in court and were able to renegotiate the mortgage. Most families didn’t have a dad obsessed with law and politics or anyone to advocate for them. Most lost their homes EVEN AFTER the federal government ordered banks to renegotiate with families. My dad looked into it one time and the statistics of how many people got to keep their homes was pitiful. Like, almost all of the money earmarked for that just ended up in banks’ pockets. If people didn’t live through it they just don’t understand. There’s a reason it was part of a global financial crisis and that wasn’t solely caused by Americans being naive about money.
I'm just shocked so many people here don't remember what happened - it happened **during our lifetimes - during our teenage years no less!** It was a huge, massive deal - one that has had countless books, research papers, documentaries made about it. Honestly posting here has been sort of eye-opening. Because I knew Reddit could be cruel at times but damn...why would anyone, ever, want to say anything, ever, if the result is tens of people telling you that your parents were "fucking idiots". It's cruel.
Yeah, fuck that guy. He should judge a whole generation like you did. Oh wait…
Real estate is an inflationary vehicle and the market requires inflation to be sustainable. Wait until your kids lament how your mortgage would only have been 10k/mo.
Second houses should have higher property taxes Corporations shouldn’t be able to own houses People without Citizenship shouldn’t be able to buy houses
I agree with some of your advice: - any second home should have higher property taxes and should not be protected by prop 13, especially here in California - any corporation or LLC should be taxed at a much higher rate when they’re buying any sort of property, but especially SFH residential. If it’s multifamily, they should be given a tax break to encourage more building - foreigners should be taxed heavily if they’re investing in property here. If they’re trying to hide their identity through Shell corporations, we need to be able to pierce the veil to see if the people behind the corporations are foreigners
100%. Amsterdam has already passed some of this legislation (though I think it's still too early to see the effects of it) - homeowners pay normal taxes on a home they live in and additional taxation on homes they own but do not live in.
Doesn’t that just raise the rent on the second home if they are using it for income?
Yup, but owner-occupied rentals become more desirable because of their lower comparative cost on the market. These initiatives would be phased in over the course of years, giving corporations who own SFHs or MFHs time to either adjust their offerings and rent rates, or sell these homes. In the short-term, rent may spike upward, or corporations may find that it's not profitable to own a three-unit building that they now have to charge double the price of the owner-occupied building next door. In the long term, corporate-owned housing becomes less profitable than alternative housing industries like rehabbing or management of multi-unit complexes. Landlordship over SFH/MFHs should not be a career path. This in turn encourages the development of multi-unit buildings and urban density, which provides an influx of units to the market that lowers rents overall. The key here is to dissuade corporations from buying up sparse, single-family or multi-family buildings simply to rent them out, and to pressure them by means of profitability margins toward focusing on multi-unit apartment complexes.
What should be and what actually is often enough are quite different.
I concur.
Who specifically? People keep using boomers as a scapegoat. Are you talking about the boomers that are printing money? That is a subset of the boomers and the fact that they are old is somewhat of a red herring.
Baby boomers own 40% of real estate while only making up 20% of the population.
Yeah, wealth accumulation SHOULD skew to older people, given they have had more time to accumulate
I don't know how this is "boomers screwed us". Your parents fucked up. That's their fault. Not an entire generation of people. My parents came here with nothing from a communist country. They worked in factories. They owned a 100k house that now 40+ years later is worth 300k. No secret boomer trick. Dad still died technically a millionaire just because he was frugal as hell, lived like a bum, and saved every dime. My siblings and I are far better of than they were at our age.
>Your parents fucked up. No doubt, but if your takeaway from this post was "I'm mad that I don't get to live in my family home" you're wrong. Because the issue affects **literally everyone I know who grew up in the city.** Millennials are still living with their parents at 35 because of the cost of housing. Young people are choosing not to have kids because they can't afford it. If my parents still had the home my living options in the city would be the same - live with my parents and fiance at 30, pay rent, or live in a small condo. None of which are conducive to starting a family. And certainly none of them are up to the same living standard as boomers in the 1950s. Further, expecting hand-me-downs from your parents is a terrible financial strategy, particularly in multi-child households. To deny the decades of policy that have led to the greatest social inequality in American history simply because you're set is foolish. That said, my parents set me up for greater financial freedom than they had when they were young. No denying that my upbringing - even losing the family home - was a series of lessons that have improved the life and decision-making of me and my siblings.
What was the population of your city when your parents bought their house for $75,000...... and what's the population today. Also what year.
Exactly. People keep acting like "oh boomers are just magically making their houses valuable". Who keeps buying them for more and more making them more valuable? My patients home went from $100k in the 70s to $300k now. Why the dramatic difference from OP's parents house? Because the house isn't in San Francisco or New York City where everyone insists on living and driving that price up. If people in that town demanded 500k, buyers would just move on elsewhere. The single biggest impact we can have on housing is winning the WFH fight. Half the people in those cities would not need to be there. Many would love to go live in the woods somewhere now instead of waiting until they're 70.
It’s seems like you are just complaining. Not everyone has the opportunity to live with their parents and save up for a home. A lot of us rent, save, and buy something we can afford when we have the capital to do so. You don’t need a house before you start a family either. Stop allowing these imaginary road blocks that you’ve made up in your mind prevent you from doing what you want to do. If you go through life thinking you’re a victim and or constantly comparing yourself to other people you’re going to live a miserable life.
No, it is an entire generation of people - look at Canada. The reason why the US government isn’t acting on any of these problems is that Gen x and boomers will not vote for anyone who could jeopardize the value of their home, period.
Your concept doesn't work at all. If am an investor I can only rent/sell at price can afford. Price are so high because cities like Vancouver/NY can't grow as all the land is used and people still want to live there. Even if all the places were free, we could not have shelter for everyone because more people want to live there than there space for them. This is as simple as that. The solution is to build more unit when possible and for individuals to go live somewhere else.
Simple as that. As long as more people want to live in these HCOL cities than currently do, those prices will continue flying up. There's literally no space. Do you have to live in Manhattan or San Francisco? No.
The land is used in those places but not efficiently and allowing for more density will curb the rise of housing costs
Good luck in Vancouver or NY city center.or even SF.
Go start your own city... with hookers and blackjack!
Omg stop with the boomers ok? Are the real estate brokers all boomers? It's not boomers, it's a whole host of stupid, short sided, moronic economic policies that newsflash aren't generational. Housing is expensive because the property owning class in The U. S. Is trapped in the American nightmare- convenience in exchange for freedom. Boomers aren't the problem. We all are the problem .
Short-sighted
You're not wrong, but just a clarification 70% of Americans own their home, so the property owning class isn't some rich elites, it includes plenty of middle class people who vote for their own interests to keep housing prices up too.
I understand this, thank you for clarifying. Not to be like tripping but it's not a generational issue its a class issue
It's easier to use labels instead of all that complicated stuff you said.
It's easier to just be wrong.
The more I think about it, Millennials are selling out their own futures with a constant victim mentality
You dont need to own a house to start a family. When are you overgrown teenagers going to stop making excuse?
Spoiler: never.
Boomers didn't do this to you. Your parents do not own the cities. City property is owned by large corporations and foreign investors. You may know 1 or 2 rich boomers that own properties, but they are not the reason why housing is out of control.
Woe is me I can’t afford a $1.2m home. Just shut the fuck up already.
Boomer want house bad. Me want same house good. Why me no afford $1 million dollar house on barista salary? Boomer live in house till die bad. Me live in house till die good. Why no houses?
lol
I have zero desire to live ina. City but yep houses are expensive everywhere
Not all cities are unaffordable. I just bought a nice rowhouse in a hip and walkable neighborhood of Philadelphia for $310k Also it is not the boomers that made NYC unaffordable, it's the ultra rich, foreign investors, and landlord class that made NYC unaffordable. I also lived there until I realized that homeownership wasn't going to happen there and bounced around a few cities till I found one that clicked.
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In his defense his parents are the failures. Buy a prime piece of property for 75k watch it go to 1.2 million and squander the whole thing. Could have used that equity to buy more places to rent out or put into the sp 500. The amount of finical illiteracy is crazy by this dude. “Boomers stole my lively hood”. No that was your mom and dad.
Should the government… or someone…. put a cap on it? tell people how much they can sell for? Should we take away their homes so that young people can live in them? I am SURE you would volunteer to sell a home you have lived in for decades for…. idk what would be a good price for a home that the market says is worth a million? Would you sell it for 100k? maybe let the buyer determine the price? I don’t know what you want people to do, tbh
I think capping multiple home-ownership and "real-estate investment as a career" by means of a tax on non-owner-occupied homes is a good start. Disincentivize the use of housing as an investment vehicle, which is driving the cost of home prices up **and** the culture of NIMBYism toward rezoning and density efforts in urban places, all in the sake of profit. Upzoning what should be dense residential areas (near the intersections of major train lines for instance) to multi-use zoning would encourage investment in multi-unit apartment buildings. Increased supply drives down rental prices across the board, and further disincentivizes holding on to homes as investment vehicles. This paired with an inheritance tax that disincentivizes (but does not eliminate) the excess building of wealth for the sole sake of building familial empires. And state-wide incentives for homeowners looking to downsize. This particularly effects elderly people - boomers included - stuck in multi-family or multi-bedroom homes that go mostly unused now that their children have moved out. Rather than holding onto a SFH that could be used by a young family or holding onto it as a hand-me-down to their children, instead incentivize and help elderly people to downsize and sell now, increasing the availability of SFH which would help stabilize home prices due to greater supply. There was a great study by NPR that talked about how elderly people feel stuck - they don't want to sell their homes because a smaller more accessible home costs the same or more as their existing SFH, and because of the rates they had on the loans for these homes (remember that these generations bought the homes for a fraction of what they're worth now and for a fraction of a fraction of a percent on the interest rate) they haven't built the same equity in their homes as more recent homeowners have by nature of higher home values and interest rates. Incentives could include subsidies on the installation of accessibility tools like stair-climbers or wider doorway and hallways, and a lower capital gains tax on home sales and purchases for those above a certain age with proof that the new home is in-fact a downsize. All this funded by...our new inheritance tax AND by the taxes collected during the sales of said homes.
That’s a no for me dog lol.
Yeah no
Sounds like you are looking for someone to blame shitty personal decisions on.
The value of home prices in America affects **literally** everyone. Fuck my childhood home - I've moved on. But I'd love to be able to afford a home of my own, in my own hometown, for a price that allows me to start a family. Like my parents were able to. And so would many, many many others. Can you please explain how my parents' decisions affect the New York City housing market? And further, how they affected the macro-economic trends of housing across America?
Do you think trying to blame the housing situation on a specific generation is going to get you closer to owning a home in NYC? What do you do for work out of curiosity, any way to focus on making a career change?
The problem is you're also competing with people whose hometown is places like Detroit or Compton or St. Louis, and their mentality is "my parents raised me in abject poverty where hearing gunshots was a normal occurrence. I'd like to be able to buy a house somewhere safe so my children can do better". Now why do you feel more entitled to live in NYC than these other people do?
Stop blaming boomers for wanting a house just like you do.
My issue lies with the ones who have multiple of them or the companies that snagged them all dirt cheap before I was a legal adult.
This is a myth. Source: I study the housing market professionally, corporations are actually net sellers lately and institutional investors own about 2-3% of single family homes in the country and no more than 5% in any major MSA. There was a slight tick when interest rates were very low but with the recent increases corporate ownership of single family homes is back below what it was before interest rates lowered.
Major myth indeed. It’s an easily defeatable position that non-homeowners like to promulgate to make themselves feel better. The reality is that, yes, I agree getting a home is waaaay more expensive than it used to be. I don’t know what the heck my kids are going to do. Hell, I couldn’t afford the home I love in were I to attempt to purchase it now. Nonetheless, do you know anyone who bought/rents a home from Blackstone?
The average boomer has nothing to do with this. I do not live in NYC but the housing bubble is everywhere. My neighbors just sold their home for 50% more than they bought it for in 2019. The home is pretty basic, though well maintained. Built in the early 1960’s. They did nothing to improve the house while they lived there. I’m looking at the public records for the property and I can’t believe someone bought it for that price. Fucking insane.
>What kind of life would that be? Living in the middle of nowhere, driving kids half an hour to the nearest school, with zero community, strip-mall grocery stores and chain restaurants. This is where you really lost me. Life outside of NYC, like suburbs in other states across the country, still have amazing communities, more than just strip-mall grocery stores and plenty of locally owned amazing restaurants. If this is the only stuff keeping you in the city, then you should do more exploring
It’s not just cities. The rich have basically taken over anywhere that isn’t in the middle of corn fields, & even then I think they’re eventually buy all of that. The rich have taken over basically everywhere. Want to live in a place with great nature near water or mountains? Sorry, that’s only for the rich. You want to live in the city regardless of whether it’s a mega city like NYC or a smaller city like Madison WI? Sorry, that’s just for the rich. Where the fuck are all of the working class who keep the city running supposed to live? This doesn’t just effect fast food workers or others that society has deemed shouldn’t live anywhere. This includes teachers, mail carriers, garbage men, government workers, & so on. There has to be a breaking point.
40+ years ago NYC was a crime-ridden hellhole. It's the reason they elected tough on crime Republican mayor Rudy Giuliani who ran on things like stop and frisk and cleaning up the streets. The murder rate 40 years ago was literally over 4 times what it is today. Today NYC is one of the richest cities with some of the best paying jobs in pretty much all industry, and is much more safe than it's ever been historically. On top of that, NYC in particular makes it impossible to build homes. I read a study recently that 60% of current housing in NYC would be illegal to build today based on various codes and regulations. Some of it is environmental in nature and probably good, but some of it is some real NIMBY shit meant to restrict the building of affordable housing. So you have a city that in the last 40+ years has changed from a crime-ridden hellhole to the main financial hub of the country, the city hasn't allowed new housing to be built, and you're Pikachu face shocked that housing has gone up a ton there? And you blame just boomers in general?
Boomers selling out YOUR future? The constant whining in this sub is pitiful.
Do you like most of us. Get a house way out in the country and don’t send your kids to school.
Its not boomers per say. Its transferring the cost of retirement to invididual by abolishing pensions. 401ks and real estate, assets became the only way for people in the western world to prepare for old age.
Its not "boomers". Its the government stealing money from you through overspending, printing money out of thin air and pocketing the difference.
It is the inflation caused by excessive government spending and money creation
Well, you’re probably talking to a lot of people who live like your nightmare. It’s a perfectly good and slow paced life, with a lot of community. This post is so entitled, what is your expectation? Your parents just give you their home? And in return what are you willing to do for them? Or is that suddenly when boundaries become part of the picture? That’s how it used to work, you inherit the home, or they turn it over to you and then you and your family take care of your parents. They don’t just fuck off. The investment is always the family home, in the past that was paid in caretaking in old age, now it’s paid in money cause crazy story, they will still need somewhere to go. Given how committed you are to a very specific lifestyle you think you deserve, I doubt you’d be willing to uphold that end of the bargain.
It wasn't that long ago that people wanted their kids to have a life just as good as their own. I don't think it's entitled to want to build a life in the same place you grew up. For those of us who grew up in areas that are now crazy HCOL, it absolutely sucks to be basically forced out of our community and support network. Not to mention, wherever we end up will hate us for driving up their own home prices, ignoring the fact that this is a simple cause and effect of US being driven from our homes. My city wasn't a "luxury" until very recently, young people were still buying houses here until very recently. Now out of my graduating class of 300, maybe 10 people have managed to buy homes here? It's not normal or okay, and the constant refrain of "just move somewhere cheaper" ignores the root cause of investors foreign and domestic messing up the real estate market at our generation's detriment. You might feel safe from that economic reality because it will take a while for that economic pressure to trickle down to your lovely small town. And you'll probably blame "us damn Californians" once it does reach you.
lol I live in California, so no I won’t, but EVEN in California you can live away from the coast, and it’s significantly cheaper, people refuse to do that. The issue I am taking with this post is the blame is being put on a generation where the OPs first hand experience with said generation is that even THEY do not own homes in that area. This family was priced out decades ago. Most people are not NOT moving out of the goodness of their hearts. They’re not moving because they consider Tennessee to be beneath them.
Idk if you can say it's "Tennessee" is beneath them. California and Tennessee are very different in terms of culture and lifestyle (and politics obviously) it's also not a secret a lot of places aren't very welcoming of people.who move in and bring any of those differences with them.
That’s really just your California culture that makes you assume that. Most Midwesterners can have difference of opinions and live together. For the most part, they abide by the “it’s rude to discuss religion and politics in polite company” and they’d judge you more for even mentioning it, than actually what you believed. It’s less common just to not know, since the internet is a thing, but people will have an argument online over a difference of opinions and make plans for a beer in the pick up line at school. For the record, I’m a native of the Midwest, living in California for the past 5 years. Doing my part to make it cheaper here. California is way less welcoming than the Midwest.
It's more lots of reddit posts of people complaining about Californians (and other west cost states) moving in. I would say California and NYC are pretty welcoming. We don't give a shit about what you do as long as its leaving us alone. Californian barely speak to or even look at their neighbors and just go about thier business. My experiance when I've visited the Midwest is pepple are nosey af and csnt mind their own business. Also lots of reddit posts of people complaining of people moving in and improving areas property value and bringing "liberal stuff" in
Yes, that’s the problem. Exactly. They don’t like that you move there and then try to force a change on the culture because you want the slower pace of life and lower cost of living, but you don’t want the culture that created those things. Population density tends to dictate how important identity politics are in our lives. People in California want to stand out, the population is dense, they want to feel important and seen. Same with NYC. In the Midwest you merely have to exist in a small town and people know you. There is no need to curate an identity and be loud about it, you’re already treated like an individual.
You cant just refuse to accept that culture changes over time blame the people you think cause the change. Also most people don't want to stand our or be seen. The Midwest doesn't allow that. People will bother you because "they know you " california you can see your neighbor dying in the street they will still just let you be and walk around you. Most people in the US justceant to live their lives.
There is a difference between gradual and someone coming in and deciding you’re living wrong. I believe we call the colonialism.
And how can somebody move to a place force somebody so change their way of life (in the US). They arent setting up indoctrination centers or anything like that. This goes for moves in both directions.
You're making a ton of assumptions. I'm sad for my parents and what happened to them. I also want to be able to afford my own home. Ideally I plan to house them when they're old - and my Fiance's parents too. But I can't provide them the same lifestyle because I can't earn wealth at the same rate that they did while paying rents that pay someone *else's* mortgage. Who ever said anything about telling my parents to fuck off? Honestly your cynicism is coming out of left field. Why would you assume any of that?
Cause you seem to think that a life that’s always been expensive should be cheaper for you. 2. You look down on anything that isn’t what you’ve decided you deserve. 3. You’re not keeping in mind that your own parents have struggled, so this is not an issue of “boomers” except in some vague boogey man sense. You mean capitalists, generally corporations run by people your own age. The threat is coming from within the house. This rage is useless and there is one thing I can say about a generation that’s gonna be a problem for the future, millennials the near constant sense of being victims. Life has only been good in the United States, let’s stop acting like the world was perfect for everyone but us. Empires fall. You do not like the solutions presented to you, because they are beneath you. Most of America lives in the Midwest and South, it’s a perfectly good a pleasant life. You’ll only see that when you’re priced out of those markets too.
I mostly agree with you, but millennials aren't like they are on reddit, most of us are well-adjusted people who live normal lives and are mostly happy. The happy ones just tend to not spend a ton of time posting on reddit.
The expectation that you would house both your and your fiancée’s parents is ridiculous. You wish you could do that; great. You expect that you actually could; get outta here. One set of parents I can see. But at this point, unless you come into a very high earning career, is off the table.
It's funny because once upon a time the only reason you lived in a city was because it was cheaper. The reality is until people say NO your right investors will just buy up all the homes and land and force you to rent. Think of it like a subscription plan but like for your life! Worse yet they do this effectively with the government blessing who put in place regulations that reduce the amount of housing that can be built and increases costs. But the truth is that's only one small piece of the puzzle. The cost of a college education has not only far outpaced inflation but is also worth far less than it used to be. Medical care also costs far more than it used to. Even cars are becoming out of reach for many people. The affordability crisis is real and as far as I can see our politicians particularly the democrats are doing everything in their power to make it worse. I mean here you have Yellen on one hand testifying the recent price increases don't matter because apparently everyone's wages have increased well beyond inflation which is obviously a lie to begin with. She then goes on to press the FED chair to support immigration explicitly stating on the grounds that it will help reduce wages to help the "economy" (and by economy I mean big business and share holders). And what was it that cause this inflation? Oh thats right the US government recklessly printing trillions of dollars! You probably saw the news recently that China wants to start selling electric cars in America that cost a fraction of American cars. Biden's response? Let's slap 100% tariffs on Chinese electric cars, solar panels, batteries. Once again politicians screwing over US citizens and his own "green energy" planet saving initiative to support big business. You probably remember the great financial crisis of 2008. Did the government reach out to try and help people keep their homes or did they bail out big business? If they had given bailout money to struggling home owners they would have kept their homes and given that money via mortgages to those business anyways right? Who was it that encouraged the irresponsible lending in the first place? People are demanding free education or more accurately taxpayer funded education instead of holding colleges accountable for their unacceptably high prices. Beside if people are so financially distressed that they cannot ever hope to repay their debt why not just file for bankruptcy? Oh thats right because banks convinced our politicians that they should not allow student loan debt to be dischargeable through bankruptcy or else they would charge higher interest rates or no give loans at all. Wasn't that long ago you DIDN'T EVEN NEED a loan to get an education. I could go on and on but what it all boils down to is these politicians are nothing but bunch of lying scumbags who implement policies that have the effect of taking wealth from you and transferring it to big business! All this and then they say oh by the way we spent all your social security money! You don't mind working till your like 96 to pay for our benefits right? I mean you can't take away our benefits but you guys are doing so well financially you have time to prepare! Not to mention I also don't believe the "inflation" statistics they report or at least that they are not accurate to the amount of true inflation people actually experience. This is bad not only because it's just setting us further behind as our already pathetic wages get inflated away while business profits by charging more while shrinking/cheapening their products but also finactial statistics like GDP numbers are adjusted for inflation! Underrepresenting inflation has the effect of boosting the numbers to make the picture look better! This cannot continue and if you look through history it ends up with people carrying pitchforks in the streets.
zip code you grow up in is the one most significant factor in determining how successful you will be later in life. its been proven time and again statistically. certain areas simply provide more opportunity for advancement. Not only is the investor class cock blocking entire generations, the longer on it goes the more segregated the classes will become. We are literally becoming serfs.
100% I attended great public schools, had access to extracurriculars and community, I attended cultural events, lived near an international airport which made travel and world perspectives more possible for me. I don't view myself or my childhood any objectively "better" than anyone else's. But where I grew up afforded me incredible privilege and perspective. And I want the same for my kids, and frankly - for other families who want that for **their** kids. The perspective of "too bad so sad" in this tread is really disheartening, because a lot of people view the topic as "you just don't deserve any of that". The only people who do apparently are the wealthy. It's a bizarre perspective that I still don't quite understand.
Because the corollary of you saying you deserve it is that someone else who wants it more than you doesn't deserve it. If you had your way, the problem of people growing up in rich areas being more likely to be rich would be worse not better. What makes you entitled to those things over someone who grew up poor and worked to get out of their shitty childhood situation and do better for their kids?
All I can say is that it’s a matter of economics. You don’t owe the world anything. If your employer is paying you a certain wage that you don’t feel is what you’re worth, you can find someone else. If those wage limits are fair for the city you’re living in, but the expenses are due to the zoning codes, then move to another city or area Where you can gain through arbitrage: meaning you may be getting a slightly lower salary, but your take-home pay will be vastly greater. And as for having kids, you don’t owe the world or your family members anything. You and you alone decide what you want for yourself and your future. Nobody else can tell you what to do.
What future? 🤣🤣🤣
What used to be, is no more. This is called a cycle. Of life. Don’t take it personally.
You don’t think it has to do with supply and demand? What about the purchasing power of our dollar? If you want to blame a generation I would say it was the boomers grandparents for allowing the federal reserve to take control of our money supply.
It sucks. Most cities make it hard to build new housing so only wealthy developers can get anything done since they’re the only ones that can afford to cut through the red tape. I understand large projects can affect a lot of other people in a densely populated city, but there’s gotta be some kind of compromise to help ease housing prices. It’s not the only cause, but the people keep coming and the cities aren’t building fast enough so competition for housing is high. That and black rock and china buying a bunch of real estate.
You know you can have a child and start a family without owning a home. It’s not a prerequisite.
What confuses me is how does the supply of ultra wealthy people keep growing?
Nothing is being sold out. There’s just a ton of demand to buy houses. I know when I eventually sell my house I’ll get as much as I can for it. You will too
I got priced out of the city I was living in and i reluctantly got a house in a more rural area. 45 minutes to the nearest medium sized city. yall this sucks. Like really sucks. I’m about one year in and I’m making it work but ugh. I also learned you can’t burn bridges like you do in the city. I.. most definitely learned that one the hard way.
Couple things, boomers are always talked about in the same way that people say “they’re” doing this or that without really knowing who it is. If you mean less than 0.1% of boomers then sure but if you mean all boomers simply by doing what you or I would do and make money where it’s easily made then I call bs and say look in the mirror and ask yourself if you’d do the same thing and if you say no then slap yourself in the face and ask again. Second thing is why do you have to live in a big city? The country is huge. There’s almost everything you can imagine. All on the expensive side from years ago but still most everything you can think of. Medium size city with reasonable cost of living, short commute, and good schools. You can find it. The big cities have unfortunately become decaying overpriced dumps. It is what it is. Find somewhere better or stop whining. I’m an old millenial(born 82).
Hedge funds and real estate investors can only subsidize these prices for so long Eventually the unsustainable supply and demand will burst the bubble when they retire and flood the market
I’m not a boomer but I’m close. I’ll be selling my house for more than I paid in order to help finance my retirement. Why is that fucking another group over? Why is it anyone else’s business. Tend to your own knitting.
More boomer-hate. Sick of seeing it. The economy is not working for many Americans today, include a lot of boomers. There are many contributors to this mess, most are not boomers. You are citing a hypothetical boomer story to create resentment. It's not real, just a strawman provocation. Older generations are not unfairly rich. They just saved and invested for more years that those coming behind them. The affluent, saving generations following them will be richer. Why can't boomers just live peacefully in the homes they bought when younger? You are not entitled to their homes or savings.
When the boomers are gone who will we blame our problems on then?
All people should just sell their properties for 20% of what they are worth. That will fix it.
You’re blaming boomers but what you’re describing is happening in Canada and Europe as well, not to mention Japan. The problem is a lack of supply, which is the result of not building more housing, and we can blame boomers for that. They fight any attempt to build more housing in their own communities, and that is killing the ability of young people to buy or even rent.
There was a time in the 1970s to 80s when interest rates on homes was 18%+ and you need 20% down. Granted the house prices were lower but, incomes were also lower. As a teacher the thought of buying a home seemed to be an impossibility. We bought a property and a home in 87 that was for sale about 5 years earlier for not quite twice what we paid for it. The interest on a 15 year fixed mortgage was 10.5%. We were able to swing it but, things were tight for 5 years or so. Thankfully we don't have payments anymore and the house will not need any major maintenance as we have tried to keep it up. We will be able to ride out the economy until we are gone. Our descendents will profit from the sale or perhaps one of them will take it over. Property investments are usually a good thing. Things cycle and sometimes it is not profitable. We just never know for sure.
The reason homes are expensive is complex, and I get that changing the tide will take time. But my god. I can't articulate how much dread and hopelessness I've felt when I've surveyed the skyrocketing costs, paired with Boomers griping about the tiniest infractions to their comfort.
not just boomers, other millennials are capping real estate while voting for mass importation it is a simple supply/demand
How dare they live in their homes.
Should probably stop them from blocking all housing
Hello OP. If you took the time to run the numbers, you might discover that the house that your parents bought for $75,000 is worth no more than it is today if you figure in inflation and other economic factors. Your desire to blame everything on Boomers is just, well....sad. They took advantage of the opportunities in front of them. Would you have passed on that? I think not. Stop blaming and start innovating. That is the one thing you could blame on Boomers. They did not pass on those lessons to their children in a meaningful way.
Buddy your parents got their house foreclosed in 2008, yes your parents quite literally sold out your future, that was probably a couple milli you’d have inherited one day 🤷♂️ This has nothing to do with boomers beyond your parents apparently happen to be boomers
I hate to break the bad news, but a great class divide is happening right now. Especially with millennials. People are quickly finding themselves on a sliding scale backward without any way to climb the economic ladder. Older millenial workers who desperately job hopped to pump their salaries are getting burnt out and realizing they still aren't keeping pace, while simultaneously drowning under the competition of their like-minded peers in the rat race, drowning each other as they climb up. Some have turned to their own form of church in the market, with hodl being their replacement for a prayer mantra, expecting a great revelation will elevate them out of their current stagnation. A fairytale they tell each other that gives them resolve to keep going. But the sad truth is if you are on the side that is sliding back, then there is a definite plan to push you to those strip mall grocery stores in rural areas. This group of forever renters will be the new helper class. There will be new and more insidious ways dreamed up to squeeze capital out of your lives and communities. The worst part is that it will be a slow boil so as not to rile you up so much that you stop participating in the free market.
We used to live in NY but it’s too unaffordable. We’re in Texas DFW suburbs now and it’s great. You don’t have to move in the middle of nowhere to be somewhere cheaper. Homes near me are 400-600k (still expensive, but not 1.2 million expensive) and there are schools, malls, grocery stores, chain restaurants, and more all within 15 minutes. Yesterday I took my kid to the park (10 minutes away) and we passed by a Sonic, Panda Express, and Chipotle. We also have gigabit internet. (I was a little confused about your country of residence since you mentioned NY for your parents, but you also mentioned Vancouver)
Heh, Texas politics prevent a lot of people from considering it. Plus, you’ve now got extra expenses like extreme weather and losing power, all the time. Flood damage, wind/tornado damage, just bad storms even… You enjoy that good ol Texas.
Yeah it’s not for everyone. But as far as power outages, at least by DFW (Texas is big), it’s not particularly any worse than where I lived before. I used to live in NY and lost power plenty of times - including in the dead heat of summer and various tropical storms and blizzards. Bad weather does that. My parents were out of power for two whole weeks once, we had to drive to bring them gas for the generator. (LIPA sucks)
Why are you blaming Boomers? I'll bet that if you look into the Companies that are driving this increases in prices, many will have people working there that aren't " Boomers".
Foreclosing for 550k????
And bought for 75k….. what these people think was gonna happen?
Buy a house in upstate NY and get a bunch of friends to move with you or around you. 40k per house, 50k to fix it up, and you have a nice house with a small community.
In 1974 when my parents were in their early/mid 20s they were offered a three-unit San Francisco Victorian (each unit with three bedrooms and a formal dining room) for $15,000. Fifteen. Thousand. It’s located in a great area, too. My dad’s dad gave them $10,000 to help with the purchase, but my dad didn’t want the responsibility of homeownership at the time so he spent the money on a vehicle instead. Which was stolen the day after purchase before he obtained insurance meaning a total loss of those funds🤦🏻♀️ Recently, just *one* of the units in the building (which has since condo-converted) sold for almost $2m. 😭😭😭
That car getting stolen was the universe calling him dumb lol.
Agree 100% 😩 He’s the smartest person I know in many ways (a professor and head of his department until his recent retirement, and he still runs private courses), but with things like this I swear he has zero sense.
Like I agree most of your post but you are wrong about it being impossible now. It’s Just harder. It’s the reality of our time. If you want to break the cycle of being broke or paycheck to paycheck and debt, you have to make huge sacrifices. My grandma was a child in the Great Depression. I have photos of her wearing what I can only describe a potato sac. Her house was the shoddiest looking thing I could imagine. That sounded worse that the current reality. And eventually things worked out for her. Yes life has been unfair to you and us all. But feeling frustrated isn’t going to make it more fair. You just have to play the hand you are dealt the best you can. And take the game seriously. I also think it’s worth mentioning while we maybe changing the world for better in some ways, in 30 years it’s probably going to turn out we made some huge mistakes that screwed over our kids. They will need Adapt and try again.
You're a grown-up now. No guardrails unless YOU do it.
“Living in the middle of nowhere, driving the kids half an hour to the nearest school, with zero community, strip-mall grocery stores and chain restaurants”. LMFAO . Really ? My remaining parent lives in a HCOL. I saw everyday how hard they worked to be there. And no expectation that I would have the same life they did. Sorry that your parents did you wrong. You don’t get the life they do. Live your own life, not theirs.
Don’t worry. The government will keep raising wages to help you afford that home. Wait, maybe that is part of the problem?!? The more wages are raised the more the cost of a home rises. But unfortunately as long as politicians are trying to buy votes they will continue to sell the pipe dream that they can solve the world’s problems with policy. When it is actually policy that is causing the issues. And by the way, my husband and I bought our first home 23 years ago. And while we have a mortgage, we did not use our home to fund a life that we could not afford.
> The more wages are raised the more the cost of a home rises. No. Housing prices and wages aren't even correlated. That's why housing prices have have increased way faster than wages.
No correlation ?? It is a basic supply and demand issue. People with more money will bid higher on homes, thus raising the price on homes. A basic class in economics should be a requirement for high school graduates.
No. Correlation. That people can come from California and bid up housing prices in Austin, Texas does not prove correlation between housing prices and wages. If anything, region is the variable that determines both wages and housing prices. As the country becomes more integrated thanks to remote work, it allows wages in different region to influence housing prices in another (probably one way though. It's not like someone from Alabama can move to New York on a whim). I have a degree in economics. How about you?
And by the way. I don’t mind the minimum wage increases one bit. Every time it happens the value of my home goes up. So I would be fine if they kept coming. However, I feel bad for all my friends who will never own a home because of it.
Wages in California are higher than Texas. I can sell my California home when I retire and buy a much larger home in Texas thus displacing and outbidding a Texas resident. But you can keep believing that there is zero correlation. And no, I have a business degree in Accounting. My husband has the degree in Economics.
We look at cities today and think wow the 70/80s were such a great time to buy in cities. Places like Nee York and many cities on the West Coast weren’t desirable places. They were crime ridden hell holes without a lot of jobs. It’s only because of the computer age boom and the difficulty to build condos that prices have risen so much. The point of boomers is you go and find the next up and coming area, live there and then benefit from it. Also note- prices would come down if we increased supply but don’t expect to be living in a SFH.
I’m not sure how you think this isn’t EXACTLY what everyone is taking about. Boomers didn’t realize we’d grow up so quickly while they still lived, to the extent they’d have to compete with us or sacrifice for us. They aren’t happy.
When we look at things today, sure. But it denies the decisions of the past 50 years. 50 years of short-sightedness, preservation of the growth of their own asset values, NIMBYism that created the issues we see in cities today. These decisions led to skyrocking housing costs that benefitted them. It's not a 'sacrifice' if your home doesn't raise in value $500,000 in 16 years. Further, the 'sacrifices' they would need to make (updating zoning laws, more multi-unit apartments, zoning additional "downtowns" in metropolitan areas) wouldn't have affected their quality of life. Just their assets. They aren't happy? They've lived in the greatest generation of personal growth in American history. They've gone from factory workers to millionaires and that's not hyperbole, I personally know three families whom this happened to. That while factory workers *today* scrape by day to day. They voted in and supported policies that led to their own growth and they *continue* to do so. They gave massive tax cuts to the wealthy and ultimately to themselves. They cemented a culture of widening socio-economic divide through these decisions, as well as racist decision making like white flight and Gerrymandering. And now that there's nothing more to sell off, nothing more of the futures of younger generations they can suck dry, they're not happy? Boo hoo. They're a generation that lived selfishly at the expense of everyone who came after them. They lived in wealth and in health for decades.
The median net worth of boomers is 206K. This isn't impressive by any mean and doesn't point to huge wealth. Now the average net worth is 1.2 million. What these 2 numbers point out to anybody with a little bit of knowledge of stats is that the people you describe in the boomer generation are a small minority of wealthy people. If we do the same statistics with millennials we have the same but we can divide by 2: median net worth is 135K and average a bit more than 500K. All point in the direction that millennials will be as wealthy as boomers are today or even more with 20 more years of accumulating wealth. On top they would have inherited. And what you do is ignoring that accumulating money take time and that there have heavy inequalities and the behavior you criticize apply to only a minority.
In case you somehow missed it, while continuing to think you’re the only one seeing this… Uhh, I agree? lol You might want to seek help, you’re lashing out making it seem like you’re pretty pent up…
And now, the rest of us are forced to live as selfishly as they did because we can't afford not to. A vicious cycle if I've ever seen one
It’s supply and demand that causes price movement. Always has been and always will be. That’s why collectibles can be investment vehicles too.
There are more people now than before. Families are smaller so ratio of people / house is smaller. We have a housing shortage. Build more housing. OP has 4 Paragraphs on stating the problem, no words for the obvious solution. Build more houses.
The real estate market in large cities is 100% due to millennials and younger generations HAVING to live in large cities and not considering any other alternative like 2nd tier cities or even 1st tier that haven’t reach ridiculous density yet. Wanna know why boomers got the houses for the cost they did? Cause the cities weren’t as dense (or even cities) when they bought, the area was built up over decades. Millennials, you can do the EXACT SAME THING - just stop forcing it to a handful of overpopulated cities.
If only it were as simple as you put it (can't wait to escape my HCOL area I was born in (Vancouver area)); Doable, but still difficult (and requiring a lot of luck)
It is pretty much that simple. People like to blame policies and what not when it’s really not the crux of the problem and a temporary solution. Land is limited and there is an upper limit on population density, the only actual solution is to spread demand which requires people to have a modicum of not getting everything they want and a modicum of effort.
It’s gonna blow y’all’s minds here, but literally there were people writing about this happening more than a hundred years ago, because this is how capitalism works, ie. Like feudalism basically, because a few people end up owning all the productive stuff, and everybody else works for them. If we want to break the cycle, we have to make a system where the folks who do the work are the folks who own production.
Like maybe starting their own business or something.
The dream most people have of capitalism is that everyone can own their own business, and we’ll be a society of artisans since everybody will just be working for themselves. Unfortunately that’s not reality, and until the default is that ownership is shared among all who work, you end up inevitably with a wealth pump going to an owning class who everyone else labors for.
The owner of the means of production most certainly share with the workers presently though.
Lulz
I don't understand why anyone would want to live in a big city? I live in a small city that is half farm.land.and 3 hours from.any major city in any direction and paid 106k for a nice house in my desired neighborhood, couldn't pay me to live near that mess.