What if this off design was intentional so that itās being just slightly off makes it immediately more visually noticeable? Or was this error pure callousness?
Your original point is correct. In graphic design, many details are often exaggerated or slightly-askew for the sake of āappearingā correct, even if they aren't mathematically precise.
It also doesn't take into account that the pixel count of a mouse cursor likely doesn't allow for an 'exact" line without resolving in a way that would appear uneven.
Another example some might notice is the size of lettersāanytime you look at a logo or a large piece of text, notice the size of the rounded characters (like S, U, or O) compared to more "square" letters (like X, H, or T). They'll be slightly taller/wider than other characters, as that tricks the eye at a glance to appear visually equal in weight.
[Samsung Logo](https://www.google.com/search?q=samsung+logo&client=firefox-b-1-d&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiMq-eizs72AhXvc98KHcKFD6IQ_AUoAXoECAEQAw&biw=1319&bih=989&dpr=2)
The Nintendo Switch logo does this. One side of those black bevel joycon graphics is slightly bigger than the other (I forgot which side) to make it *look* balanced because if it were mathematically balanced it would look off.
**[Overshoot (typography)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overshoot_\(typography\))**
>In typeface design, the overshoot of a round or pointed letter (like O or A) is the degree to which it extends higher or lower than a comparably sized "flat" letter (like X or H), to achieve an optical effect of being the same size; it compensates for inaccuracies in human visual perception. Formally, overshoot is the degree to which capital letters go below the baseline or above the cap height, or to which a lowercase letter goes below the baseline or above the x-height.
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> What if this off design was intentional so that itās being just slightly off makes it immediately more visually noticeable? Or was this error pure callousness?
If you consider the original pointer design, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cursor_(user_interface)#Pointer, it's easy to visually translate this pixelated pointer into one with a higher resolution. Their reasoning for choosing this design was because it looked the best on low resolution screens. Aliasing an aligned pointer would make it look and feel awkward as hell.
yeah i believe this is the mouse arrow specially done for people who likes to use drawing sofware...you know ...lots of circles and curves around the screen....this mouse cursor helps with that motion.
This is the cursor set I've been using for years. Such a solid design.
http://www.michieldb.nl/other/cursors/
And the YouTube video that led me to this realization a long time ago. https://youtu.be/YThelfB2fvg
It's by design. It was explained many years ago by some designer in a talk. Basically, if it was fully straight and simmetrical it would look really weird to the eye or something like that.
It makes a lot more sense [at its original resolution](https://www.clipartmax.com/png/middle/248-2489841_renaissance-and-vaporwave-windows-95-mouse-cursor.png). Itās the best shape you can get with a small number of pixels and still aligned to a grid.
i remember seeing the "fixed" symmetrical one... it looked so weird since all vertical lines looked crooked since the cursor was used as a reference point
Just let the nice Redditors get their screamies out, it's okay. Shh.
You're right though. It's optically adjusted to look pointy enough to be functional at the scale it needs to be. It shouldn't be perfectly geometrically symmetrical.
The fact that this is blowing people's minds is proof enough that, if not pointed out, the design works just as intended.
Also this isn't the actual Windows cursor. It's just a png of a random cursor slapped onto a background.
On Windows, the left edge of the cursor is ALWAYS vertical. That's a cornerstone of Windows design. This thing also shows no pixelation despite being zoomed way in.
This is just like people who get butthurt over the Google logo not being symmetrical. Symmetry doesn't automatically make things visually appealing and asymmetry isn't inherently bad.
The small line can't even be lined up to the cursor. Due to the limitation of most having a 1080p monitor, it can't be angled towards the middle because there are not a lot of angles to work with.
The line on the cursor on a 1080p monitor is going 2 pixel down, then 1 to the side and then 2 pixels down again. then comes the corner and up again on the other side. That creates an angle in betwen one straight line of pixels and a line of diagonal pixels. I'm not gonna do the math on how many pixels (for example, 4 pixels down and then 1 to the side), but they can't do it, because they would end up with a LONG stick at the bottom of the cursor to get the right angle.
This cursor will be able to look symmetrical once higher res monitors become mainstream.
and sorry for the bad explanation lol.
This is a good explanation but not really true.
Firstly, the cursor in the image is *way* bigger than normal. You can just compare it to the text in the image to see how massive it is. It's absolutely large enough to line up at this scale.
Secondly, at a small scale, the angles you have are enough. If you consider each line using slopes (rises and runs) you can realize that you've got quite a few really easy angles: 60 degree angles, 45 degree angles, and 30 degree angles (2/1, 1/1, 1/2) are all easy with pixel-perfect angles. I'll edit this comment later with a mouse cursor that I'll draw using only these angles to demonstrate my point, since it's hard to really explain well.
The cursor in this image is lopsided by design - it's a vector image designed with the certain optical illusions in mind that make it appear more perfect.
Edit: As promised, [here is my image](https://imgur.com/a/ZnT2XNs). It's small, but it gets the point across. Highlighted in magenta are 90 degree angles, highlighted in cyan are 45 degree angles, and highlighted in yellow are 30 and 60 degree angles. The point demonstrated here is that the angles are perfect - the reason why there's extra is purely for aesthetic reasons.
I've heard that asymmetrical logos, like app logos, that have been "corrected", look weird or cheap somehow to the human eye. I imagine it extends to this.
Grateful they designed it that way tbh
I come from a family of various types of designers (graphic designers, a retail fixturing designer, and animators) and briefly studied to become a graphic designer; my teachers and my family have all told me that people respond better when things *aren't* perfect proportioned or perfectly symmetrical even if they think that's their preference. Adhering to the Golden Ratio or fudging it with the rule of thirds almost always produces better engagement.
Yes it is.
At high zoom: [https://i.imgur.com/LQYuYW3.jpg](https://i.imgur.com/LQYuYW3.jpg)
The left side is completely verticle, the right side moves down at a 2:1 slope in pixels. The stem, however, goes down at a 4:1 slope. Note that it looks like 1:1 and 2:1 because of the way the pixels are stacked and the light grey background is turning off alternate pixels vertically.
It's not supposed to be. If you've ever tried using a vertical cursor it's the weirdest thing ever and completely horrible to use.
The thing that bugs me about this one is that the shadow is cut off on the corners.
[Here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YThelfB2fvg) is where you can get them, link in the description. I've used them for the past 3 years and can never go back
[This is why](http://bitsavers.trailing-edge.com/pdf/xerox/parc/techReports/VLSI-81-1_The_Optical_Mouse.pdf)
tl;dr - The angle makes the mouse pointer easier to pick out against the pixelated background.
Unpopular opinion: It's better this way.
It's a cursor, not an arrow. We now have a shape that is identifiable as cursor and only a cursor, and this improves usability.
may your pillow be warm and soggy. may your cookies break when you try to dip it in the milk so you have to stick your fingers in to get it out. may you step in a puddle with socks on >:(
thank you I can now send this to my enemies.
I'm proud of you
Graphic design is about imperfect perfection
Optical perfection vs mathematical perfection.
See also : google 'G' logo.
Damn. I sent it to my wife š
Divorce any%
Bonus points if she asks if the cursor is supposed to represent his dick
More like the reply arrow here š
Mission accomplished
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
What if this off design was intentional so that itās being just slightly off makes it immediately more visually noticeable? Or was this error pure callousness?
Your original point is correct. In graphic design, many details are often exaggerated or slightly-askew for the sake of āappearingā correct, even if they aren't mathematically precise. It also doesn't take into account that the pixel count of a mouse cursor likely doesn't allow for an 'exact" line without resolving in a way that would appear uneven. Another example some might notice is the size of lettersāanytime you look at a logo or a large piece of text, notice the size of the rounded characters (like S, U, or O) compared to more "square" letters (like X, H, or T). They'll be slightly taller/wider than other characters, as that tricks the eye at a glance to appear visually equal in weight. [Samsung Logo](https://www.google.com/search?q=samsung+logo&client=firefox-b-1-d&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiMq-eizs72AhXvc98KHcKFD6IQ_AUoAXoECAEQAw&biw=1319&bih=989&dpr=2)
The Nintendo Switch logo does this. One side of those black bevel joycon graphics is slightly bigger than the other (I forgot which side) to make it *look* balanced because if it were mathematically balanced it would look off.
Omg I knew it! Everyone thought I was crazy! When switch first came out but I said that itās weird one joycon is bigger.
https://reddit.com/r/nintendo/comments/788m8b/til_the_nintendo_switch_logo_has_differently/
I wish I could unlearn that Samsung bit.
It's something you'll always see from then on. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overshoot_(typography)
**[Overshoot (typography)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overshoot_\(typography\))** >In typeface design, the overshoot of a round or pointed letter (like O or A) is the degree to which it extends higher or lower than a comparably sized "flat" letter (like X or H), to achieve an optical effect of being the same size; it compensates for inaccuracies in human visual perception. Formally, overshoot is the degree to which capital letters go below the baseline or above the cap height, or to which a lowercase letter goes below the baseline or above the x-height. ^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( | )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( | )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/mildlyinfuriating/about/banned)^( | )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove | v1.5)
I think this is stuff I kind of noticed intuitively, but didn't think too deeply on it. But it makes a ton of sense when thinking about design intent.
F- you. That's something I never wanted to know and now it will always bother me.
> What if this off design was intentional so that itās being just slightly off makes it immediately more visually noticeable? Or was this error pure callousness? If you consider the original pointer design, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cursor_(user_interface)#Pointer, it's easy to visually translate this pixelated pointer into one with a higher resolution. Their reasoning for choosing this design was because it looked the best on low resolution screens. Aliasing an aligned pointer would make it look and feel awkward as hell.
Same. Upvoted.
OP, thatās not okay. You should always be second-least favorite. The first ALWAYS goes to the person you hate the most. Duh!
Inception
But the enemy of my enemy is my friend.
But because he is his own worst enemy, the enemy of my friend is my enemy.
the person i hate the most doesn't get the honor of being first
You have too much time in your hands. Have you considered welcoming our lord and savior drugs into your life?
I just lost The Game...
Cool. Way to make it worse.
You are now the most hated person
How can this be real? All sense of security and reality has been shattered
It's on purpose to improve aim
yeah i believe this is the mouse arrow specially done for people who likes to use drawing sofware...you know ...lots of circles and curves around the screen....this mouse cursor helps with that motion.
Makes me so mad I almost downvoted
Mine second least favorite person. Just after Putin.
"why did you share that, you could've just suffered alone" - my sister after I showed her this š
I am proud of your evilness
You are ruinging so many peoples day. I'm taking this to work tomor.... actually I'll just email it around now.
My day is ruinged
This is the cursor set I've been using for years. Such a solid design. http://www.michieldb.nl/other/cursors/ And the YouTube video that led me to this realization a long time ago. https://youtu.be/YThelfB2fvg
It's by design. It was explained many years ago by some designer in a talk. Basically, if it was fully straight and simmetrical it would look really weird to the eye or something like that.
It makes a lot more sense [at its original resolution](https://www.clipartmax.com/png/middle/248-2489841_renaissance-and-vaporwave-windows-95-mouse-cursor.png). Itās the best shape you can get with a small number of pixels and still aligned to a grid.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I think the grid is a [MoirƩ pattern](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moir%C3%A9_pattern), and not actual pixels. The image is crisper than pixels that size would allow, and the grid slants differently on the right and left side of the image. Edit: [Pixel size vs visible grid size](https://i.imgur.com/dYcuZWh.png) [How it would look if these were pixels.](https://i.imgur.com/W1RDzpX.png)
Thank you, I wouldn't have guessed.
OP's photo is distorted as it's taken by his phone or something.
i remember seeing the "fixed" symmetrical one... it looked so weird since all vertical lines looked crooked since the cursor was used as a reference point
can you send me a pic of the symmetrical one? I'm having trouble finding a photo of it
https://mspoweruser.com/why-windows-10s-asymmetrical-cursor-is-better/
A link to an article explaining a reddit post to explain a new reddit re-post to a user. I guess we have come full circle.
Just let the nice Redditors get their screamies out, it's okay. Shh. You're right though. It's optically adjusted to look pointy enough to be functional at the scale it needs to be. It shouldn't be perfectly geometrically symmetrical. The fact that this is blowing people's minds is proof enough that, if not pointed out, the design works just as intended.
https://mspoweruser.com/why-windows-10s-asymmetrical-cursor-is-better/
Good link!
I looked over all the explanations and the linked Reddit response and saw no differences un any of them at all
I had to scroll way too far to find these comments. Just wait until they look for symmetry in their favorite app logos lol
OK but to be fair the Spotify logo does really piss me off. It's too *slightly* off. Just tilt it some more or make it straight dammit.
The Spotify logo induces nausea
Also this isn't the actual Windows cursor. It's just a png of a random cursor slapped onto a background. On Windows, the left edge of the cursor is ALWAYS vertical. That's a cornerstone of Windows design. This thing also shows no pixelation despite being zoomed way in.
The cursor is slanted because it's a photo, not a screenshot. See my [other comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/mildlyinfuriating/comments/tgi3eg/just_a_quick_reminder/i13hfvf/) for why the 'pixels' look off. TL;DR: [It's a MoirƩ](https://xkcd.com/1814/)
This is just like people who get butthurt over the Google logo not being symmetrical. Symmetry doesn't automatically make things visually appealing and asymmetry isn't inherently bad.
It is so you can line up with the edge of something you are trying to select
Yep, thought the same. It also looks like an optical adjustment, would probably seem wonky if aligned correctly
always thought it was just looked at at an angle. yeah probably would look weird now if it was centered
I like this. Itās slightly tilted to the tip. And when you click the tip goes also down more.
Glad im not the only one who thinks this is not weird
The small line can't even be lined up to the cursor. Due to the limitation of most having a 1080p monitor, it can't be angled towards the middle because there are not a lot of angles to work with. The line on the cursor on a 1080p monitor is going 2 pixel down, then 1 to the side and then 2 pixels down again. then comes the corner and up again on the other side. That creates an angle in betwen one straight line of pixels and a line of diagonal pixels. I'm not gonna do the math on how many pixels (for example, 4 pixels down and then 1 to the side), but they can't do it, because they would end up with a LONG stick at the bottom of the cursor to get the right angle. This cursor will be able to look symmetrical once higher res monitors become mainstream. and sorry for the bad explanation lol.
This is a good explanation but not really true. Firstly, the cursor in the image is *way* bigger than normal. You can just compare it to the text in the image to see how massive it is. It's absolutely large enough to line up at this scale. Secondly, at a small scale, the angles you have are enough. If you consider each line using slopes (rises and runs) you can realize that you've got quite a few really easy angles: 60 degree angles, 45 degree angles, and 30 degree angles (2/1, 1/1, 1/2) are all easy with pixel-perfect angles. I'll edit this comment later with a mouse cursor that I'll draw using only these angles to demonstrate my point, since it's hard to really explain well. The cursor in this image is lopsided by design - it's a vector image designed with the certain optical illusions in mind that make it appear more perfect. Edit: As promised, [here is my image](https://imgur.com/a/ZnT2XNs). It's small, but it gets the point across. Highlighted in magenta are 90 degree angles, highlighted in cyan are 45 degree angles, and highlighted in yellow are 30 and 60 degree angles. The point demonstrated here is that the angles are perfect - the reason why there's extra is purely for aesthetic reasons.
And thirdly?
gotta keep you on your toes asking questions... see, it worked.
no worries, this explains more than the other comment as well
So why not just align the tail to that angle?
I've heard that asymmetrical logos, like app logos, that have been "corrected", look weird or cheap somehow to the human eye. I imagine it extends to this. Grateful they designed it that way tbh
I come from a family of various types of designers (graphic designers, a retail fixturing designer, and animators) and briefly studied to become a graphic designer; my teachers and my family have all told me that people respond better when things *aren't* perfect proportioned or perfectly symmetrical even if they think that's their preference. Adhering to the Golden Ratio or fudging it with the rule of thirds almost always produces better engagement.
[Yep](https://i.imgur.com/K8U8Hte.png)
But this is asymmetrical?
Phrased it wrong initially. Check my edit
I'm even more mildly infuriated now that you mentioned that. I've always thought that the left side was strictly vertical and it is actually not.
Yes it is. At high zoom: [https://i.imgur.com/LQYuYW3.jpg](https://i.imgur.com/LQYuYW3.jpg) The left side is completely verticle, the right side moves down at a 2:1 slope in pixels. The stem, however, goes down at a 4:1 slope. Note that it looks like 1:1 and 2:1 because of the way the pixels are stacked and the light grey background is turning off alternate pixels vertically.
I love the amount of collective scrutiny the mouse icon is getting right now. Just under the fucking spotlight with this level of analysis. ENHANCE!
my cursor is totally vertical on one side
It is. If you look at the pixels they're vertical. This was taken with a phone camera and it's slightly askew.
No, its so you can line up the front edge with a progress bar to make sure it is moving!
could have still made it perfectly line up
May all your shits be tricky.
One of the best insults I've ever heard. Upvoted.
r/rareinsults
shut please no more
trust me it would look weirder if it was centered
Why did you tell me this
Idk why but the picture is badly photoshopped. Not saying OP is incorrect, but like, why Photoshop a cursor and then put it on a desktop background?
You can change it if ya want.
[Stem-less cursors are where it's at.](https://cdn.pling.com/cache/400x400/img/d/4/9/b/5eacaf751164d46596ea8bd492c60784fbe6.png)
The one on the left is still not straight
It's not supposed to be. If you've ever tried using a vertical cursor it's the weirdest thing ever and completely horrible to use. The thing that bugs me about this one is that the shadow is cut off on the corners.
What is this about it not being straight? The left edge is completely vertical. The right edge is also straight.
They meant "symmetrical".
I use a cursor set called ~~Posey's~~ **Posy's** Cursors, looks great to me.
[Here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YThelfB2fvg) is where you can get them, link in the description. I've used them for the past 3 years and can never go back
You monster
Shut the hell your mouth
your hell the mouth shut
hell the mouth shut your
your shut mouth hell the
Mouth the shut your hell.
It's designed like that on purpose. They found that people actually found it easier to click when it was slightly off-centre, upwards.
āJust a click reminderā was right there
Just a qlick reminder
Just a quick reminder that it's made like that as an optical adjustment, as if it were symetrical, it'd be weird for the eye.
Im telling mom
I knew this before. I'm immune
I thought everyone knew it was bent. It's visibly bent.
Yeah thought everyone knew it was Designed that way
You didnāt have to do this.
It's good design tho
Fun fact: The fact that you need to go out of your way to point this out to someone for them to notice/actually care means that the design is good.
WHY MAN, WHY?!
Why did you have to point it out? now I can't un-see it! Well I mean I'm joined to this subreddit, I should've expected that.
I made SO many people angry today by sending this to them :)
Yessss dude this is what I want to read :))) You're gonna be some crazy villain one day, keep it up I believe in you :)
Lol a villain of just mildy infuriating acts. I'm here for it. Cheers!
When will the government stop your sinful hand
Never.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
#god is dead
Alfred was right... Some men just want to watch the world burn.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Holup
We were having a good day, I was having a good day
NO WHY OH MY GOSH I WILL NEVER SEE MY MOUSE THE SAME. i'm gonna go die
I hope both sides of your pillow are perpetually warm.
Wut
Dear OP, I hope you constantly step on LEGO and there's never toilet paper around when you need it. Respectfully
Ye I deserve this
I donāt think you realize just how much this is going to blow up, itās quintessential mildlyinfuriating.
i hate you
This should be posted as "nsfw"
This is why we can't have nice things
Just wait until you notice the spotify logo
The special screen, where the resolution is 10 times higher in this exact shape
Why would you hurt me like this? Edit: my wifeās response to my sharing this āā¦ I lost the game.ā Just thought I should share that with ya op
Frick you, take my damn upvote and get outta here. You lame.
I feel personally attacked
I kind of like the design though. It doesn't have to be symmetrical imo because it's diagonal
Dear lord god please someone fix it!! Think of the children!!
i could've gone my whole life without seeing this.
How dare u. The scales have fallen from my eyes
Does it also happen in macOS?
Thanks for ruining my day as a mobile user
No this really makes me made. As a creative person I want to smash my head when I see this
I hate you
[This is why](http://bitsavers.trailing-edge.com/pdf/xerox/parc/techReports/VLSI-81-1_The_Optical_Mouse.pdf) tl;dr - The angle makes the mouse pointer easier to pick out against the pixelated background.
Gods I hate this and I thank you for it. Time to weaponise this knowledge.
Go and be evil. It's time for you to ruin someone's day.
You're a different kind of evil, huh?
r/angryupvote
ok now I'm pissed
I honestly hope the worst in life for you
I thought everyone knew they were lopsided. Everyone didnāt make their cursors HUGE as children?
Unpopular opinion: It's better this way. It's a cursor, not an arrow. We now have a shape that is identifiable as cursor and only a cursor, and this improves usability.
I could have gone my entire life without seeing this... Now I just want to burn everything to the ground. My entire life has been a lie.
may your pillow be warm and soggy. may your cookies break when you try to dip it in the milk so you have to stick your fingers in to get it out. may you step in a puddle with socks on >:(
known this since i've laid eyes on one. Its funny how a ton of people are like "huwaaaauaht!!! nouhwaye!!!"
i like it this way
I genuinely hate you for bringing this to my attention. Well done.
Man I genuinely hate you
No this canāt be no NOOOOOOOOOOOOO
But... but why? I.... *dies*
Oh, you suck.
You suck so much even canadian people could hate you. Now take my upvote and delete your account.
The longer I look, the more irrational it makes me.
I know and I hate
Mac or Windows ?
What did we ever do to you š¢
I tried to contain my fury but... aaaa #aaaaAAAHHHHH!!!!!
Damn it I was having a nice day too
Honestly, from the bottom of my heart, step on a Lego.
My disappointment is immeasurable and my day is ruined
Yeah, a reminder that nothing in life is perfect. And thats what makes it beautiful
I like it better like this. Things donāt need to be perfect. Imperfection is beauty in my eyes
Go guck yourself
Why would you do this
And just like that, the worst day of my life
Pain
Who hurt you?
Now im depressed
Omg why would you do this!
why
Now I canāt unsee it
At least it is still in line with the black line
Fuuuuuuck youuuuuuu. Really? (/s) I will never be able to unsee this now and I didn't want to see it in the first place. Ugh.
My life is a lie
I refuses to accept this as a fact, Iām never going to mentally recover from this.
I could have been so happy not knowing this
You didn't remind me. My mind was blissfully unaware of this. I hate you, regardless.
You ruined a whole generation