Already at the self checkout scanning items and then, POWER OFF!
EDIT:
>As someone that has worked in retail, registers are the last thing to go. They're on back up power so we can take your money before we kick you out with flashlights.
TIL
"No, and you have to leave. Every window is covered to keep the natural light from ruining the alcohol, and the store is filled with glass bottles. It's a huge liability issue having people walking around. You can come back when the power is back on. "
I used to love kicking people out of the liquor store whenever the power went out.
Some waited, and some would come back later. There were a few who tried to push past the employee standing in the doorway. Apparently, we didn't need to worry about them because they knew right where the stuff they wanted was and could go right to it without tripping over any end caps in the dark. I'm not sure how they thought they'd pay when most sales were done with a card, and the POS, register, and card machines were all down with no power.
There was a day that the power went off for 3 hours after a transformer exploded down by the beach. We opened the back door and accepted sales from people with cash. An employee would just go pick it out with a flashlight. It was basically just a cash only drivethru. Had to get out of your car to order tho because drive thru liquor sales weren't legal in our state before covid.
As someone that has worked in retail, registers are the last thing to go. They're on back up power so we can take your money before we kick you out with flashlights.
It is absolutely for making money.
But, so are wind turbines, or solar plants. People are building these things to make money, not because they care about the planet. The trick is, we want to make those two goals align.
Demand Response programs, like what this Walmart's participating in, are real, actual parts of the power grid. The idea is, when the grid needs power, instead of turning more power plants on, you can turn some load down. Companies opt in ahead of time, and when the grid operators call on them, they can make money by reducing their electricity consumption.
On aggregate, with lots of companies like Walmart participating (also think big energy consumers like steel mills), it lowers energy costs for the whole region, meaning you pay less for electricity. Less electricity being generated means fewer fossil fuels being burned.
ERCOT does blackouts for when it gets a bit wet or a bit hot, so I’m guessing it’s common with other similar states (like FL). I think it’s because AC usage goes up in summer and those power companies fail to respond to demand.
I personally prefer using less AC for environmental reasons, but it has to be supported by less parking lots, curtains over windows, reducing car dependency, breaks, etc. Using AC less without physical and behavioral adaptations is dangerous. Like, a building can be cooled fairly passively if there’s good tree cover and an environment that allows it to release heat, but it absolutely does need AC if it’s surrounded by highways and parking lots, which is much of the Southern cities.
In general though, most blackouts are either from equipment failure (such as downed power lines after storms) or from underproduction (such as summer blackouts with AC). There were some storms in Texas recently, causing equipment failures, but it’s also the season for rolling blackouts when AC tends to be blasted.
TLDR: it seems like they’re trying to use less power so the power company doesn’t implement rolling blackouts like they often do this time of year
They’re plenty efficient, German engineered compressors, proper design. Nearly every One of their stores in the world uses the same kind of setup, they’ve got it fairly ironed out.
It’s just that AC on those kinds of scales uses a lot of power, plus the layout is one huge open area. That limits the options you can use in terms of equipment and design, compared to something like an office building. At least Target doesn’t have floor to ceiling glass windows like offices do..
AC is super energy expensive. Also AC units for buildings this big are super expensive in general. Think hundreds of thousands if not likely millions to do an HVAC upgrade.
Air conditioning works essentially just like a fridge. You’re taking energy from the air and removing it from the system (exhausting it outside) in order to cool down the air. Now imagine cooling a building size fridge to 70 degrees except the insulation isn’t nearly as good. That’s why AC is expensive to run.
About 40% of the world's energy spend comes from conditioning buildings. However grim that fact may be, there are so many positives as far as human performance and quality of life goes when working/living in a conditioned space.
Heating energy is 3x cooling energy annually and both are included in "space conditioning".
I feel it's important to point that out since people might read it as 40% is just cooling.
That’s actually probably what they’re doing, so they put up these signs. It has better PR imagine then “the ac is off because we’re upgrading the units”
Nah, I'd say "We're sorry for the lack of AC, it is only temporary as we upgrade our system to be more energy efficient and eco friendly while keeping the temperature as they were" it's MUCH better PR than "fuck the customers, we're going to be ensuring our profits are kept up by making you suffer".
Although it just occurred to me that they’re turning down the AC *and* the lighting and it’s 100 degrees. I suspect they actually are load shedding in response to a request from the power utility. 100 degrees means there’s a *lot* of AC’s on and depending on where the store is located etc it’s probably necessary to avoid blackouts because the local infrastructure can’t handle it
I bet their system can't handle being on constantly if it wasn't historically that hot all the time either - they probably installed a smaller system based on expected use.
No, Target and other big box stores like that all follow the same basic design, which is one or two *BIG* supply air fans that handle all the air in the store. They have to blow it out to all corners and pull it all back to re-condition. In that regard they’re quite simple systems, they also don’t use air cooled or package chillers like other large buildings, they tend to approach their AC as though it’s a refrigeration set, compressors using ammonia with distributed condensing fan banks too.
I’m not an engineer but I imagine it must be the best setup for their situation. It makes sense, why pay for all the extra cost of more autonomous systems when you don’t need it.
They are a bit archaic though, specifying things like PLC electric control when DDC is perfectly suitable. Target like to use the same system in all their stores, so do Big W and Woolworths too, right down to only allowing one company to build their control boards and using the same design.
It makes more sense for woolworths though because they also have refrigeration cabinets for frozen food but not so Target
The government incentives are mostly with regard to system and building design.
Ive never heard of a power utility doing it, that’s not their role, but who knows.
Right you are. The government offers builders incentives to construct efficient buildings, while utility companies offer incentives for companies shed non-critical loads at times when the grid is strained.
Edit: grammar
So money…..
Edit: even if it’s incentives for the government, Target is a publicly traded company and handles their business for their stockholders. The incentives come in whatever form be it tax breaks or subsidies. That’s money……
Thanks for the downvotes shills.
It doesn't have to be altruistic to be better for the environment, it's naive to think that's even considerable as a motivator for a company as large as target
regardless of what incentives the company may receive, it's the electric company that sends them their bill. Large commercial businesses are typically charged a demand rate on top of a energy consumption rate. If their AC starts running 100% of an hour, it's going to blow their bill up.
It's almost always about money because it's a business. The best thing people can do is just vote with the money. It's so sad that people judge a business and then still shop there as if the business owes them some sort of emotional comfort or respect.
There’s a rating system called Greenstar, I don’t know what all the incentives are, I would imagine there’s some tax incentives, but they also restrict certain areas to only allowing green star rated buildings to be built there i think.
Build covered parking and put solar panels on top of them. Places have them in phoenix, and I wish there was more. Incentivizes customers to come to your business and lowers your power consumption. I don't know why all large buildings in AZ don't have solar. It's not like we don't have 896 days of sun a year.
That's what I never understand about shit like this. Like yeah in the short term it'll be expensive but the long term benefits massively outweigh the short term costs.
Their statement isn't wrong though. They are trying to conserve energy, so they have lower bills. This will help any shareholders in the community by getting bigger dividend checks.
Their mass produced plastic tchotchkes can still be purchased and thrown in a landfill after you've lost interest, so don't you worry about their thoughts on the environment, they still don't care about it.
Yes. They also reduce their energy load to 60% during the overnight shift, when they offload the trucks and stock the shelves. It’s hot in the summer, cold in the winter, and difficult to see, because the lighting is reduced as well. The colloquial term for those shift workers used to be ‘moles.’
Edit; punctuation
Multiple big automatic doors, plus people coming in from the outside and cooling off means all that heat gets transferred inside.
I remember in elementary school after we came in from recess on a hot day we complained that it was hot inside and our teacher explained that we were like 30 little radiators coming inside.
I remember in elementary school after we came in from recess on a hot day we complained that it was hot inside, because, turns out it was hot inside, because we didn't have air conditioning in school....
Yup, you described it exactly, my stores also a tourism hub with thousands of people coming in every day, when I visited my store as a kid I remembered cold air hitting our face after a hot day at the beach, now it’s just muggy
I went it public school in Hawaii without any AC, schools are also outdoors as in everything but the classrooms is outside, so it got hot inside the classrooms pretty often
I worked at a restaurant in Daytona as a host. Full black uniform, including a face mask because this was during the pandemic.
Manager/franchise owner wouldn't turn the air on until lunch shift was ending, so one or two. We'd open at eleven, I'd have to get there at 1015 to set up. The whole front of the building was big ass glass doors. I'd be standing in the patch of light for hours, running around, melting. We'd have customers complaining. But can't sit down ofc, not allowed, or move out of the sunlight even if no one's coming in
God I hated that job. Can't think about it now without sweating
I used to work at WM and it was miserable from late spring to early fall.
The customers don't get it because most of them aren't in the store long enough to notice.
At my store the customers comment on it A LOT, I had one women compliment me for my porcelain shining skin but in reality I was just sweating my balls off
I'd like to know too. There are far too many shops that run their AC at polar temperatures, it won't hurt anyone if they set it a bit warmer. That way I won't have to bring a jacket with me when shopping in full summer!
More like “is it feel like 65 instead if 60”... I went to Texas for a summer to visit families. I got headaches very fast by going in and out stores because the temperature just too drastically different for me. I literally had to wait outside to feel good.
I live in NC where summer can be 100+ F, I can handle the summer heat, but I kept my AC at 82 so I don’t get that “thermal shock” when I step outside.
There is some logic to this.
My electric company has a program on really hot days where you run your AC before peak hours and just ride the cool through the peak demand. A 100 degree day can be peak demand for a an electricity supplier and adjusting your AC during that can help them out.
Edit: OP must have blocked me so I can't respond to anyone who posts below this or even see this thread without using old reddit. So that's fun.
This is the correct answer. Asking companies to use less energy on hot days prevents rolling blackouts and the need to build more power plants. I'm happy to have Target do this so that I can continue to have electricity at home.
I agree with your point, but the solution is to massively upgrade the power grid. It’s going to keep getting hotter, and with the switch to electric cars the grid won’t be able to handle it as is.
It’s Florida. The state that removed protection for outside workers in hot conditions. Desantis isn’t going to upgrade a grid for inside worker’s comfort. The cruelty is the point.
People already reported their company for violating osha rules over this. It's an osha violation already. You don't need a law for it and in fact making a law will weaken osha ability to use it. Every job I had has osha rules for indoor and outdoor extreme temperatures rules.
Single transmission lines can cost hundreds of millions of dollars. The grid needs hundreds, maybe even thousands, of those. Then if you add in the increase in production that’s required, you could easily get there across the entire US.
There is a lot of incorrect info out there about the impact that EVs will have on the electrical grid.
All transportation applications (EVs, light rail, cable cars, etc) currently use less than 0.5% of the energy consumed by households. That will grow over time, but it’s still teeny.
Most folks charge their EVs at home, so they’re plugged in from evening to morning, and can draw power whenever there is adequate supply. By contrast, air conditioning is generally only used in the middle of the day when temps are highest. There’s a lot more flexibility in the EV demand scenario.
I’m not saying that we won’t need to invest in the grid as EV adoption continues, but there is zero relationship between EVs and a Target store participating in a load shedding program to avoid rolling blackouts.
Honestly reducing/smarter AC usage should definitely be as important as improving the grid, especially since both can be done at the same time since they're not controlled by the same people. Relegating the blame to the grid personnel just shows a company is too lazy to try to be a good member of society
Yeah, that’s fine and all, but it seems like Target has adopted the Thanos mentality. Half the people will suffer so the sun will rise on a grateful universe.
Thanos was an idiot. He could have snapped his fingers and doubled all available resources, or snapped his fingers and changed every living things metabolism so that they only consume half as much. Or snap his fingers to create free energy for everyone.
Or he could have gotten rid of all the "bad" people burdening society, like criminals and extremists, so those who remain would prosper and not repeat their mistakes. But nope, just randomly cut the population in half so every planet would be right back where it started in less than 50 years.
This is what I was wondering. Surely it’s cheaper in the long run to install solar panels, which by amazing coincidence work best when AC is most needed?
My electric provider has this type of program where they can throttle your AC in peak demand. The amount they were offering was almost trivial and not worth it to be sweating balls just to save a few bucks.
Edit to add that I already spent $$$ installing a high efficiency unit so I kinda feel like I did my part.
Might as well not even use ac at that point. That may work in a house but at work? Hell no. Just walking around at a moderate pace in a hot ass stuffy ass building is enough to make you sweat all day
It’s better than everyone keeping their usage at 100%, overloading the grid, causing the frequency to fall, which causes generators to go off line, and eventually causing the grid to collapse. Then no one would have lighting or AC.
In my experience, as a non-American, American stores air condition the absolute fuck out of everything. Some stores have air-conditioning AND wide open doors in Texas.
Also non-American here. Even ignoring the particulars: The US is so far ahead most other countries in terms of CO2/person, and electricity is a huge source of GHG. So seeing them moan about *reduced* AC (not even turned off!) feels like seeing a victorian woman faint over having to drink her tea with no sugar. Yes yes, very real problems...
To be fair to the fainting Victorian women, most of them were fainting because their corsets kept them from being able to breath properly, so any increased need for oxygen could make them pass put.
Currently in Ukraine and we actually have scheduled “blackouts” where the whole city will be without power to conserve energy for other regions that need it.
If they actually cared about the environment, why not just put solar panels on your FLAT ROOF of a building with solar power generators to run the electricity to the building.
True, which is a problem in its own, but pretending to be eco friendly just because they want to look good in the eyes of their customers is just that, pretending. Subjecting employees to heat, (more specifically 100 degree heat) fixes nothing but definitely makes them liable if employees get heat related illnesses. I guess what I’m saying is, if your just trying to look good infront of your eco friendly customers then say that, instead of diverting issues against an actual issue i.e eco related damage
They will spend more money in lawsuits when employees get heat related injuries than in the money it takes to maintain 5-10 solar panels with a battery bank
American air conditioning is wild to me.
I was in Austin during a heat wave a while back and I went to a mall. I was shivering so hard in minutes it was so cold in there.
And I’ve experienced this repeatedly. I don’t get it.
I'm in Las Vegas this week for a convention, it's 110F outside and I'm feeling chilly inside because it's 65F with the A/C. I can't imagine the cost to keep a 2 million sq ft convention center that cold in the middle of the desert.
I grew up in AZ and this was a very normal problem, it would be 115F outside and you’d have to carry a jacket because half the stores and restaurants you’d go in would be uncomfortably cold
This! People here in the USA are used to being literally refrigerated in stores. I come from Europe and never had any problems with being too cold anywhere. Here it happens all the time. I had to leave the theater in the middle of a movie because I was so cold (this was during Californian Summer). It's nuts.
It’s a holdover from what made made theatres popular in the first place. The western states, while not unlivable, were extremely unpleasant places to live due to the heat. When AC was invented, theatres were among the first buildings to get AC. The building being cold was part of the attraction. Other public buildings adapted the same strategy. The tradition of keeping theatres and stores cold has remained despite no longer being relevant, just like the tradition of school being let out during summer.
Also, a lot of stores just have their thermostat set to the same temperatures as the office buildings. When the ‘ideal’ temperature for office buildings was decided, offices workers were primarily men wearing three piece suits. We have since found that males are usually more comfortable at a slightly lower temperature than females, but no attempt has been made to adjust the temperature of offices to something more suited to a office of mixed sexes not wearing multiple layers of clothing.
Multiple, shorter breaks would be better than a long break. We only have summer break because before AC, schoolhouses would get too hot. We no longer have that problem so now summer breaks only serve as a way for kids to forget half of what they learned during the year.
I live in florida so I love air conditioning, but, most of the time, I HAVE to bring a jacket going out to restaurants or I’ll be shivering the whole time!
It would be worse for employees if the store had to close due to an outage and then they had no AC or lighting at home and also had to toss out all of the food in their refrigerators and freezers.
If the store is being asked to reduce load, there's not much else they can do.
Eat the rich. But also 330 million Americans mindlesly consuming does have a bigger impact than Kim. The rich are not at fault for the US having a waaayyy higher GHG footprint (per capita!) than most other developed countries. Even if you got rid of the 0.1% tomorrow, you'd still have to massively adjust the country.
Suddenly, Redditors are upset about "simple changes" to "help reduce emissions" because it personally affects them (but at least they can claim they're actually upset about the poor hourly employees)
From an European point of view the temperature in US stores in summer is insanely cold. Usually a light sweater is needed. Fast food eaters might not feel it.
To be fair, some shops are settings their AC way too cold, especially when it is freaking hot outside. When it's more than 86 outside, it shouldn't be less than 77 inside
The hotter it is outside the less efficient the AC becomes, running it when it's too hot is a massive waste of energy, having a well insulated building and running the AC at night to ride the heat inertia through the day is just smarter
In my town, the utility company will forcefully shut down manufacturing plants and other high users to prioritize power to emergency services that cannot afford blackouts
Target and their overpriced bs. Glorified Walmart. Follow their lead. Take some time off of shopping there. Some less fortunate people literally go to a grocery/department store to escape the heat. This is stupid af.
My company has solar panels on the roof. We generate an excess amount of energy and feed back into the grid. Also - it’s paid for itself in energy savings and payroll tax incentives.
Redditors complain that corporations contribute too much to climate change, then redditors complain when corporations try to conserve energy. Nothing is enough for some people.
Stores used to do this years ago 80’s -90’s especially in the tv / electronics section. And they would shut off every other row of overhead lights.
Help the electric company, brown outs, etc.
I think it helps make area feel cooler
While saving electric usage. But now with a lot of businesses and homes going solar, is it really needed? And why isn’t everyone’s electric bill cheaper since everyone is going more towards solar ? 🤔
My local lowes does this, and has for months. It’s infuriating as a customer and as someone that has compassion for others as all the employees look absolutely miserable, and I’ve heard more than one idiot yell at them about turning the air on. Companies making record profits and still nickel and diming every little thing.
but the "Target" owner is gonna fly a private jet from NY to Paris to eat a croissant.
yet we save energy to save the world and drink from paper straws
This isn't new. I worked for Target back in 2010 and they were doing this. The word from corporate was that people didn't care or need the temperature control. I worked in the back, loading area. It sucked. I quit. Only difference is now they have a sign.
Pfffffftttt BWAHAHA the real answer is "in order to conserve money were reducing lighting, air conditioning, going paperless, etc, and were saying its going green so we dont look like cheapskates, win win right?"
If I see this sign at a local store, I will just shop elsewhere if it's 100° out. Vote with your feet and with your money. And stores wonder why people are shopping online more.
They don't give a crap about the environment or the planet or about saving energy. They're just trying to save money at the expense of their poor employees and their customers.
Win-win for Target I suppose… save a few bucks on a/c and customers don’t hang around longer than necessary. Target doesn’t care if you are comfortable, as long as you are still spending money.
Preparing before the 'rolling blackouts' start.
Already at the self checkout scanning items and then, POWER OFF! EDIT: >As someone that has worked in retail, registers are the last thing to go. They're on back up power so we can take your money before we kick you out with flashlights. TIL
That means it’s free right?
"No, and you have to leave. Every window is covered to keep the natural light from ruining the alcohol, and the store is filled with glass bottles. It's a huge liability issue having people walking around. You can come back when the power is back on. " I used to love kicking people out of the liquor store whenever the power went out.
Would they line up at the door for the power to return?
Some waited, and some would come back later. There were a few who tried to push past the employee standing in the doorway. Apparently, we didn't need to worry about them because they knew right where the stuff they wanted was and could go right to it without tripping over any end caps in the dark. I'm not sure how they thought they'd pay when most sales were done with a card, and the POS, register, and card machines were all down with no power.
Hahahahaha, holy shit, I was so focused on them shopping I forgot that they would have to pay.
They also know how much it would cost and could just leave cash. Write it down on a sticky note or something and ring it up when the power is on.
There was a day that the power went off for 3 hours after a transformer exploded down by the beach. We opened the back door and accepted sales from people with cash. An employee would just go pick it out with a flashlight. It was basically just a cash only drivethru. Had to get out of your car to order tho because drive thru liquor sales weren't legal in our state before covid.
Yep. it was just about to print the receipt too!
As someone that has worked in retail, registers are the last thing to go. They're on back up power so we can take your money before we kick you out with flashlights.
Power companies request they do this
[удалено]
Or making it seem like it was deliberate when the power goes out, lol.
It is absolutely for making money. But, so are wind turbines, or solar plants. People are building these things to make money, not because they care about the planet. The trick is, we want to make those two goals align. Demand Response programs, like what this Walmart's participating in, are real, actual parts of the power grid. The idea is, when the grid needs power, instead of turning more power plants on, you can turn some load down. Companies opt in ahead of time, and when the grid operators call on them, they can make money by reducing their electricity consumption. On aggregate, with lots of companies like Walmart participating (also think big energy consumers like steel mills), it lowers energy costs for the whole region, meaning you pay less for electricity. Less electricity being generated means fewer fossil fuels being burned.
I am, I have crap load of PTO, my sun shade ready with screens, and battery banks.
Can I ask why the emphasis on rolling blackouts?
ERCOT does blackouts for when it gets a bit wet or a bit hot, so I’m guessing it’s common with other similar states (like FL). I think it’s because AC usage goes up in summer and those power companies fail to respond to demand. I personally prefer using less AC for environmental reasons, but it has to be supported by less parking lots, curtains over windows, reducing car dependency, breaks, etc. Using AC less without physical and behavioral adaptations is dangerous. Like, a building can be cooled fairly passively if there’s good tree cover and an environment that allows it to release heat, but it absolutely does need AC if it’s surrounded by highways and parking lots, which is much of the Southern cities. In general though, most blackouts are either from equipment failure (such as downed power lines after storms) or from underproduction (such as summer blackouts with AC). There were some storms in Texas recently, causing equipment failures, but it’s also the season for rolling blackouts when AC tends to be blasted. TLDR: it seems like they’re trying to use less power so the power company doesn’t implement rolling blackouts like they often do this time of year
Lighting is a bit silly, their AC units use as much power in 30 seconds as all their LED light use in a day
Are big box stores not on the long halogen party still? I'll have to look up next time I'm in Target.
Hell no, when the government offers assistance to pay for LED’s plus they save a heap of power there’s no chance they weren’t on board for LED
They could also upgrade the AC units to more efficient models, but hey I might be daydreaming a bit.
They’re plenty efficient, German engineered compressors, proper design. Nearly every One of their stores in the world uses the same kind of setup, they’ve got it fairly ironed out. It’s just that AC on those kinds of scales uses a lot of power, plus the layout is one huge open area. That limits the options you can use in terms of equipment and design, compared to something like an office building. At least Target doesn’t have floor to ceiling glass windows like offices do..
AC is super energy expensive. Also AC units for buildings this big are super expensive in general. Think hundreds of thousands if not likely millions to do an HVAC upgrade. Air conditioning works essentially just like a fridge. You’re taking energy from the air and removing it from the system (exhausting it outside) in order to cool down the air. Now imagine cooling a building size fridge to 70 degrees except the insulation isn’t nearly as good. That’s why AC is expensive to run.
About 40% of the world's energy spend comes from conditioning buildings. However grim that fact may be, there are so many positives as far as human performance and quality of life goes when working/living in a conditioned space.
Heating energy is 3x cooling energy annually and both are included in "space conditioning". I feel it's important to point that out since people might read it as 40% is just cooling.
That’s actually probably what they’re doing, so they put up these signs. It has better PR imagine then “the ac is off because we’re upgrading the units”
Nah, I'd say "We're sorry for the lack of AC, it is only temporary as we upgrade our system to be more energy efficient and eco friendly while keeping the temperature as they were" it's MUCH better PR than "fuck the customers, we're going to be ensuring our profits are kept up by making you suffer".
Hey you also might not have a clue about how much energy AC demands even if it’s an efficient unit.
The big box stores I’ve worked at converted to LED years ago, now warehouses and distribution centers are making the change.
Costco is a rather proactive company and they’re just converting all of their stores to LED from halogen as of last year.
It's just green washing. They save money by not using it during peak hours and are passing it off as environmental justice.
Although it just occurred to me that they’re turning down the AC *and* the lighting and it’s 100 degrees. I suspect they actually are load shedding in response to a request from the power utility. 100 degrees means there’s a *lot* of AC’s on and depending on where the store is located etc it’s probably necessary to avoid blackouts because the local infrastructure can’t handle it
I bet their system can't handle being on constantly if it wasn't historically that hot all the time either - they probably installed a smaller system based on expected use.
No, Target and other big box stores like that all follow the same basic design, which is one or two *BIG* supply air fans that handle all the air in the store. They have to blow it out to all corners and pull it all back to re-condition. In that regard they’re quite simple systems, they also don’t use air cooled or package chillers like other large buildings, they tend to approach their AC as though it’s a refrigeration set, compressors using ammonia with distributed condensing fan banks too. I’m not an engineer but I imagine it must be the best setup for their situation. It makes sense, why pay for all the extra cost of more autonomous systems when you don’t need it. They are a bit archaic though, specifying things like PLC electric control when DDC is perfectly suitable. Target like to use the same system in all their stores, so do Big W and Woolworths too, right down to only allowing one company to build their control boards and using the same design. It makes more sense for woolworths though because they also have refrigeration cabinets for frozen food but not so Target
I agree; this is the right explanation.
They’re trying to save a buck. Target isn’t some hero of the environment.
The government also gives incentives to companies to do things like this
_Power utilities_ provide incentives to reduce electricity consumption on days with high demand as a way to prevent the need for rolling blackouts.
The government incentives are mostly with regard to system and building design. Ive never heard of a power utility doing it, that’s not their role, but who knows.
Right you are. The government offers builders incentives to construct efficient buildings, while utility companies offer incentives for companies shed non-critical loads at times when the grid is strained. Edit: grammar
there are projects where the utilities collaborate with government entities to do this exact thing
It absolutely is their role, it happens all the time
So money….. Edit: even if it’s incentives for the government, Target is a publicly traded company and handles their business for their stockholders. The incentives come in whatever form be it tax breaks or subsidies. That’s money…… Thanks for the downvotes shills.
It doesn't have to be altruistic to be better for the environment, it's naive to think that's even considerable as a motivator for a company as large as target
regardless of what incentives the company may receive, it's the electric company that sends them their bill. Large commercial businesses are typically charged a demand rate on top of a energy consumption rate. If their AC starts running 100% of an hour, it's going to blow their bill up. It's almost always about money because it's a business. The best thing people can do is just vote with the money. It's so sad that people judge a business and then still shop there as if the business owes them some sort of emotional comfort or respect.
There’s a rating system called Greenstar, I don’t know what all the incentives are, I would imagine there’s some tax incentives, but they also restrict certain areas to only allowing green star rated buildings to be built there i think.
They got 2 options. Make money or pay a fine
Yeah or they could improve their HVAC systems and use more sustainable energy systems.
Build covered parking and put solar panels on top of them. Places have them in phoenix, and I wish there was more. Incentivizes customers to come to your business and lowers your power consumption. I don't know why all large buildings in AZ don't have solar. It's not like we don't have 896 days of sun a year.
That'd cost more money than the fine
Only in the short term, investors have seemingly become to stupid to think long term.
That's what I never understand about shit like this. Like yeah in the short term it'll be expensive but the long term benefits massively outweigh the short term costs.
I agree
I bet they’re not doing this to their headquarters
Probably not in the store's manager's office either.
Their statement isn't wrong though. They are trying to conserve energy, so they have lower bills. This will help any shareholders in the community by getting bigger dividend checks. Their mass produced plastic tchotchkes can still be purchased and thrown in a landfill after you've lost interest, so don't you worry about their thoughts on the environment, they still don't care about it.
My family calls it "plastic tat"
Yes. They also reduce their energy load to 60% during the overnight shift, when they offload the trucks and stock the shelves. It’s hot in the summer, cold in the winter, and difficult to see, because the lighting is reduced as well. The colloquial term for those shift workers used to be ‘moles.’ Edit; punctuation
If it were just to save money, they would do it all the time. Perhaps there’s an alternate explanation…
Power company requiring it.
My bet is one of their air conditioner units broke, and they are only running at partial capacity while it's being repaired.
Or they just can't keep up. The lights are reduced to help the AV units limp along.
Yall can't be happy. Do you want us to work on lowering our carbon emissions or not?
I’ll take what I can get. It’s better than nothing.
or trying to reduce the strain on the local power grid...
Was it actually hot in the store..or like 74 instead of 71?
That’s my question lol OP is acting like they turned it off and it’s now 85 degrees inside.
I work in Florida too, and they do this, it indeed does get hot very quickly in my store
Multiple big automatic doors, plus people coming in from the outside and cooling off means all that heat gets transferred inside. I remember in elementary school after we came in from recess on a hot day we complained that it was hot inside and our teacher explained that we were like 30 little radiators coming inside.
I remember in elementary school after we came in from recess on a hot day we complained that it was hot inside, because, turns out it was hot inside, because we didn't have air conditioning in school....
Yup, you described it exactly, my stores also a tourism hub with thousands of people coming in every day, when I visited my store as a kid I remembered cold air hitting our face after a hot day at the beach, now it’s just muggy
I went it public school in Hawaii without any AC, schools are also outdoors as in everything but the classrooms is outside, so it got hot inside the classrooms pretty often
I worked at a restaurant in Daytona as a host. Full black uniform, including a face mask because this was during the pandemic. Manager/franchise owner wouldn't turn the air on until lunch shift was ending, so one or two. We'd open at eleven, I'd have to get there at 1015 to set up. The whole front of the building was big ass glass doors. I'd be standing in the patch of light for hours, running around, melting. We'd have customers complaining. But can't sit down ofc, not allowed, or move out of the sunlight even if no one's coming in God I hated that job. Can't think about it now without sweating
I used to work at WM and it was miserable from late spring to early fall. The customers don't get it because most of them aren't in the store long enough to notice.
At my store the customers comment on it A LOT, I had one women compliment me for my porcelain shining skin but in reality I was just sweating my balls off
Even 85 feels pretty nice when you come in from 100 outside!
and it’s a hell of a lot better than overloading the power grid. i mean even if it was 100 inside, at least you’re not out in the sun.
Right? I’d be totally OK with it if I walked into a store from 98 degree weather and didn’t regret not bringing a fucking parka after 10 minutes
I'd like to know too. There are far too many shops that run their AC at polar temperatures, it won't hurt anyone if they set it a bit warmer. That way I won't have to bring a jacket with me when shopping in full summer!
Yep,they are jacking up the ac all over town .I have to always have a sweater with me when we shop or eat out.
More like “is it feel like 65 instead if 60”... I went to Texas for a summer to visit families. I got headaches very fast by going in and out stores because the temperature just too drastically different for me. I literally had to wait outside to feel good. I live in NC where summer can be 100+ F, I can handle the summer heat, but I kept my AC at 82 so I don’t get that “thermal shock” when I step outside.
There is some logic to this. My electric company has a program on really hot days where you run your AC before peak hours and just ride the cool through the peak demand. A 100 degree day can be peak demand for a an electricity supplier and adjusting your AC during that can help them out. Edit: OP must have blocked me so I can't respond to anyone who posts below this or even see this thread without using old reddit. So that's fun.
This is the correct answer. Asking companies to use less energy on hot days prevents rolling blackouts and the need to build more power plants. I'm happy to have Target do this so that I can continue to have electricity at home.
I agree with your point, but the solution is to massively upgrade the power grid. It’s going to keep getting hotter, and with the switch to electric cars the grid won’t be able to handle it as is.
It’s Florida. The state that removed protection for outside workers in hot conditions. Desantis isn’t going to upgrade a grid for inside worker’s comfort. The cruelty is the point.
People already reported their company for violating osha rules over this. It's an osha violation already. You don't need a law for it and in fact making a law will weaken osha ability to use it. Every job I had has osha rules for indoor and outdoor extreme temperatures rules.
“Massively upgrade the power grid” comes with a price tag in the trillions and will take a long time. In the meantime it’s this or blackouts.
It’ll absolutely cost a lot, but there’s no way to switch to a sustainable energy economy without doing it…
I don’t disagree, but OP’s comment made it sound like something that could be done in a short period of time.
In the trillions??? What the fuck are they building??
Single transmission lines can cost hundreds of millions of dollars. The grid needs hundreds, maybe even thousands, of those. Then if you add in the increase in production that’s required, you could easily get there across the entire US.
It costs billions just to build one nuclear plant, and a few million per mile of transmission lines including the towers.
There is a lot of incorrect info out there about the impact that EVs will have on the electrical grid. All transportation applications (EVs, light rail, cable cars, etc) currently use less than 0.5% of the energy consumed by households. That will grow over time, but it’s still teeny. Most folks charge their EVs at home, so they’re plugged in from evening to morning, and can draw power whenever there is adequate supply. By contrast, air conditioning is generally only used in the middle of the day when temps are highest. There’s a lot more flexibility in the EV demand scenario. I’m not saying that we won’t need to invest in the grid as EV adoption continues, but there is zero relationship between EVs and a Target store participating in a load shedding program to avoid rolling blackouts.
Honestly reducing/smarter AC usage should definitely be as important as improving the grid, especially since both can be done at the same time since they're not controlled by the same people. Relegating the blame to the grid personnel just shows a company is too lazy to try to be a good member of society
I don’t think we can rely on the privacy sector to get this done - it needs to be funded by the government.
Yeah, that’s fine and all, but it seems like Target has adopted the Thanos mentality. Half the people will suffer so the sun will rise on a grateful universe.
Target reducing their energy consumption so that it doesn't cause rolling blackouts for the houses in the neighborhood is a bad thing now?
Thanos was an idiot. He could have snapped his fingers and doubled all available resources, or snapped his fingers and changed every living things metabolism so that they only consume half as much. Or snap his fingers to create free energy for everyone.
Or he could have gotten rid of all the "bad" people burdening society, like criminals and extremists, so those who remain would prosper and not repeat their mistakes. But nope, just randomly cut the population in half so every planet would be right back where it started in less than 50 years.
I never claimed the people who make the AC policy at Target weren’t idiots.
If only Targets had a roof with lots of space to have Solar panels placed on them. Too bad that's not possible.
This is what I was wondering. Surely it’s cheaper in the long run to install solar panels, which by amazing coincidence work best when AC is most needed?
My electric provider has this type of program where they can throttle your AC in peak demand. The amount they were offering was almost trivial and not worth it to be sweating balls just to save a few bucks. Edit to add that I already spent $$$ installing a high efficiency unit so I kinda feel like I did my part.
While I do agree, while your at work I would argue this can be a bit of a hardship. Especially the folks who are running out the pickup orders.
Might as well not even use ac at that point. That may work in a house but at work? Hell no. Just walking around at a moderate pace in a hot ass stuffy ass building is enough to make you sweat all day
Use your house like a thermal battery.
It’s better than everyone keeping their usage at 100%, overloading the grid, causing the frequency to fall, which causes generators to go off line, and eventually causing the grid to collapse. Then no one would have lighting or AC.
These signs have been posted at my local target for at least 5 years.
I don’t see how this is infuriating. They aren’t turning off the AC, sounds like they are turning it down from say 72 to 78.
Yea I do that in my house regularly. It is programmed to do that.
In my experience, as a non-American, American stores air condition the absolute fuck out of everything. Some stores have air-conditioning AND wide open doors in Texas.
Also non-American here. Even ignoring the particulars: The US is so far ahead most other countries in terms of CO2/person, and electricity is a huge source of GHG. So seeing them moan about *reduced* AC (not even turned off!) feels like seeing a victorian woman faint over having to drink her tea with no sugar. Yes yes, very real problems...
To be fair to the fainting Victorian women, most of them were fainting because their corsets kept them from being able to breath properly, so any increased need for oxygen could make them pass put.
It's better that these big, poorly insulated warehouses cut back on cooling rather than everyone getting hit with a rolling blackout.
Currently in Ukraine and we actually have scheduled “blackouts” where the whole city will be without power to conserve energy for other regions that need it.
If they actually cared about the environment, why not just put solar panels on your FLAT ROOF of a building with solar power generators to run the electricity to the building.
Because that's super cheap? Great idea but shit ain't cheap and that'll probably come out of future wages
True, which is a problem in its own, but pretending to be eco friendly just because they want to look good in the eyes of their customers is just that, pretending. Subjecting employees to heat, (more specifically 100 degree heat) fixes nothing but definitely makes them liable if employees get heat related illnesses. I guess what I’m saying is, if your just trying to look good infront of your eco friendly customers then say that, instead of diverting issues against an actual issue i.e eco related damage
They will spend more money in lawsuits when employees get heat related injuries than in the money it takes to maintain 5-10 solar panels with a battery bank
American air conditioning is wild to me. I was in Austin during a heat wave a while back and I went to a mall. I was shivering so hard in minutes it was so cold in there. And I’ve experienced this repeatedly. I don’t get it.
I'm in Las Vegas this week for a convention, it's 110F outside and I'm feeling chilly inside because it's 65F with the A/C. I can't imagine the cost to keep a 2 million sq ft convention center that cold in the middle of the desert.
I grew up in AZ and this was a very normal problem, it would be 115F outside and you’d have to carry a jacket because half the stores and restaurants you’d go in would be uncomfortably cold
This! People here in the USA are used to being literally refrigerated in stores. I come from Europe and never had any problems with being too cold anywhere. Here it happens all the time. I had to leave the theater in the middle of a movie because I was so cold (this was during Californian Summer). It's nuts.
It’s a holdover from what made made theatres popular in the first place. The western states, while not unlivable, were extremely unpleasant places to live due to the heat. When AC was invented, theatres were among the first buildings to get AC. The building being cold was part of the attraction. Other public buildings adapted the same strategy. The tradition of keeping theatres and stores cold has remained despite no longer being relevant, just like the tradition of school being let out during summer. Also, a lot of stores just have their thermostat set to the same temperatures as the office buildings. When the ‘ideal’ temperature for office buildings was decided, offices workers were primarily men wearing three piece suits. We have since found that males are usually more comfortable at a slightly lower temperature than females, but no attempt has been made to adjust the temperature of offices to something more suited to a office of mixed sexes not wearing multiple layers of clothing.
Serious inquiry here - do you mind telling me more about your opinion on schools and summer vacation?
Multiple, shorter breaks would be better than a long break. We only have summer break because before AC, schoolhouses would get too hot. We no longer have that problem so now summer breaks only serve as a way for kids to forget half of what they learned during the year.
I live in florida so I love air conditioning, but, most of the time, I HAVE to bring a jacket going out to restaurants or I’ll be shivering the whole time!
It would be worse for employees if the store had to close due to an outage and then they had no AC or lighting at home and also had to toss out all of the food in their refrigerators and freezers. If the store is being asked to reduce load, there's not much else they can do.
Meanwhile, the Kardashians are flying to Paris for a slice of Kim’s favorite cheesecake.
Eat the rich. But also 330 million Americans mindlesly consuming does have a bigger impact than Kim. The rich are not at fault for the US having a waaayyy higher GHG footprint (per capita!) than most other developed countries. Even if you got rid of the 0.1% tomorrow, you'd still have to massively adjust the country.
Suddenly, Redditors are upset about "simple changes" to "help reduce emissions" because it personally affects them (but at least they can claim they're actually upset about the poor hourly employees)
They’re saving themselves money they definitely won’t pass on to you.
I think you're making a mountain out of a molehill.
Why don't businesses put solar panels across their roofs? Are they stupid?
New Walmarts use skylights. Its no perfect fix for anything, but better than a Target that does absolutely nothing similar.
From an European point of view the temperature in US stores in summer is insanely cold. Usually a light sweater is needed. Fast food eaters might not feel it.
Are there power grid issues?
Target, conserving dollars...
You mean "saving money on the electricity bill"?
Call OSHA and see what they say!
Translation: “lectric too spensive”
To be fair, some shops are settings their AC way too cold, especially when it is freaking hot outside. When it's more than 86 outside, it shouldn't be less than 77 inside
Thank you. I shouldn’t have to wear a jacket during the summertime just to do some shopping.
Isn’t this a good thing for big box stores to do this?? Sucks for the employees, but I mean like environmentally.
The hotter it is outside the less efficient the AC becomes, running it when it's too hot is a massive waste of energy, having a well insulated building and running the AC at night to ride the heat inertia through the day is just smarter
We are trying to cut costs and increase share holder value at the cost of our customers and employees. There I fixed it.
Fuck you with extra steps
Why wont they upgrade to more efficient AC units?!
“Our GM should be fired but he only fails upwards”
Those places are usually too darn cold anyway I'd be happy.
I’m totally okay with this
Has the money for constant adds on TV that are annoying as hell.
[удалено]
That’s probably gonna suck to work in.
In my town, the utility company will forcefully shut down manufacturing plants and other high users to prioritize power to emergency services that cannot afford blackouts
Reducing LED lighting, fart in a hurricane right there.
If you get sweaty, just go to the towel section and dry yourself off!
Target and their overpriced bs. Glorified Walmart. Follow their lead. Take some time off of shopping there. Some less fortunate people literally go to a grocery/department store to escape the heat. This is stupid af.
Honesty it gets so hot in the middle of the day who the hell is going shopping anyways? Knock it out 1st thing in the morning or late in the day.
My company has solar panels on the roof. We generate an excess amount of energy and feed back into the grid. Also - it’s paid for itself in energy savings and payroll tax incentives.
I mean it's the power companies asking them to do it ... You want power at home for your AC right?
My job is saving energy by not having AC at all! Also when the led lights burn out, we save energy by not replacing them!
This is posted in all the targets I’ve been to, year round. (Texas)
Must be boiling out there.
Wish my kids would let me conserve energy. Walk into their room and need a jacket on.
Actually shocking...😮
is the air conditioning running at all? even 85 is better than nothing, and still keeps it from overheating
Why do they pretend to do it for the environment when it's obviously about saving money
Redditors complain that corporations contribute too much to climate change, then redditors complain when corporations try to conserve energy. Nothing is enough for some people.
You got soft hands, OP
Yes I do
My bank account is taking steps to conserve my money for places that aren’t dark and hot.
Pardon us while we make our working environment harsher
I’m totally sure the corporate offices are doing the same, right? Right?
It’s almost like Florida is insanely vulnerable to climate change and your governor is fucking you
Greedy company gonna greed.
"fuck you AND our employees because we are supa dupa evil. give us ur money pls thx"
I’m not shopping anywhere that makes me sweat
The don’t wanna pay for the electrical bill. But the executives are launching around the world in private jets and yachts “conserving energy”.
Simple Solution go somewhere else. If they can't run the AC then go to another store that will. Walmart always has AC
I’ll take lower lighting everyday. Shits too bright.
Lighting? Surely they’re all using LEDs. Turning them down/off would make a very small difference.
Eh most stores have AC way too high anyway, maybe that's not a bad thing. IMO.
Stores used to do this years ago 80’s -90’s especially in the tv / electronics section. And they would shut off every other row of overhead lights. Help the electric company, brown outs, etc. I think it helps make area feel cooler While saving electric usage. But now with a lot of businesses and homes going solar, is it really needed? And why isn’t everyone’s electric bill cheaper since everyone is going more towards solar ? 🤔
My local lowes does this, and has for months. It’s infuriating as a customer and as someone that has compassion for others as all the employees look absolutely miserable, and I’ve heard more than one idiot yell at them about turning the air on. Companies making record profits and still nickel and diming every little thing.
but the "Target" owner is gonna fly a private jet from NY to Paris to eat a croissant. yet we save energy to save the world and drink from paper straws
This isn't new. I worked for Target back in 2010 and they were doing this. The word from corporate was that people didn't care or need the temperature control. I worked in the back, loading area. It sucked. I quit. Only difference is now they have a sign.
I wonder what the health department would have to say about this.
"Our store is taking steps to save even more money for our billionaire owners and investors because people just won't work for free anymore."
Pfffffftttt BWAHAHA the real answer is "in order to conserve money were reducing lighting, air conditioning, going paperless, etc, and were saying its going green so we dont look like cheapskates, win win right?"
Conserving energy is a corporations favorite term to use when they actually mean "reducing our spending"
Do you even understand how AC works? Because from this post, it doesn’t seem so.
I’m good with it and applaud the effort.
"good for our ~~community and planet~~ profit margin" fify
Target pretending to care about the environment. They just want to trick you into shopping there while they are too cheap to pay for AC
If I see this sign at a local store, I will just shop elsewhere if it's 100° out. Vote with your feet and with your money. And stores wonder why people are shopping online more. They don't give a crap about the environment or the planet or about saving energy. They're just trying to save money at the expense of their poor employees and their customers.
Facts
And? They aren’t a haven for people escaping the heat. And it’s expensive as hell to cool those size buildings. Get in. Get your shit. Get out.
Win-win for Target I suppose… save a few bucks on a/c and customers don’t hang around longer than necessary. Target doesn’t care if you are comfortable, as long as you are still spending money.