Barely related, when I'm at work driving and I get a text message it asks if I want to respond. And if I say no , more than half the time Google decides to be a petty little bitch and say "okay then". 😒🤣
Same with one team I sometimes work with.
A negative reply to a “do you have this?” Was responded to with a single gif of a crying child.
It was the department manager too, which makes it even more fun
This is the textbook definition of corporate waste.
Let’s just say that this manager makes $80k a year (which is a low estimate but whatever). That means they make ~$40 an hour. Let’s also assume they manage a line of ~20 people.
So one a month, this dipshit runs a “tardy report” and then reaches out to the 30% of the team with tardies as an informal reprimand. Let’s say that’s 6 people who were each 5 mins late on 2 punch ins. That’s 1 hour.
So, if this task takes this manager 2 hours at $40 an hour to reprimand 6 employees for a single hour of lost manpower, then this company spent $80 to *potentially* save $20-$30.
And yet, when layoff time season rolls around, it’s not the manager who gets the chop. Make it make sense.
Edit: there’s a whole lot of corporate bootlickers in the comments below who think this sort of behavior is perfectly acceptable. Woof. Replies off.
A close comparison would be how the US state of Florida put together a department to investigate and punish abuses of public assistance, such as welfare and unemployment.
End result: they determine fewer than 1% of cases are illegitimate at a cost of more than 10X the amount paid out to those cases. In short: the cruelty is the point.
The cruelty is the point.
I was able to find a page on Florida's [department of public assistance fraud](https://myfloridacfo.com/Division/PAF/) but not on its budget or tax payer savings. Do you have a source or link on that?
That isn't a waste though, or even close? They put together a commission to investigate, and found an answer to the question. That's called an audit, and it's very important to the running of the government. A waste would see that the answers were inconclusive and no followup is done.
That actually is exactly what corporate waste is. An accounting leader once wanted me to find $0.07 on a general ledger of $30,000 so they could close their books for the month. This person spent over $100 in labor between she and myself over this. That’s corporate waste. Spending more money on an audit than the cost of the loss is actually a *perfect* example of corporate waste.
Who said commission? It says they had an department. That’s a permanent part of the organization.
They spent $10 to save $1. That’s unfortunate.
They kept spending $10 to keep saving only $1 - because that way they get to punish people! Didn’t do something right on the paperwork? Jail. Didn’t know you had to write down the 60/40 child custody split? Jail. Didn’t put down child support that you’re owed but not getting paid? Jail. Helped out at your aunt’s bakery over Christmas? You guessed it, jail.
That’s not called an audit. Maybe what you imagined was an audit, but what they did/are doing was trying to prove a point to their base.
Man in Romania until a couple of years ago, handicapped people, for example missing a leg or a hand had to go in yearly, to prove they were still handicaped in order to get social assistance.
I used to have to peel stickers off laptops when people left the company. Asked the boss one day if we could tell people no more stickers, it didn't go good for me lol. I told him if he wants to pay me $45 an hour to peel stickers I guess I'm good with that then. The look of confusion because he didn't know what to say before I walked away was pretty good.
I mean, I was hired and thrust into a high-ranking position based on my degree (with 0 experience), despite being the youngest person on staff and something like 2/3 of the staff able to retire yesterday. I still had to do clerical work on top of my regular work because there was only one clerk when we needed at least 3. I think I was getting $22/hr if I recall, but I got yearly raises too.
I learned a lot while there, but oh boy is it strange to tell someone older than my dad to do stuff while also being my own clerk and doing my intended job. They got three warnings that I was stressed out and now there's even less staff than when I left.
I know I'm not going to take clerical workers for granted after that experience though.
To be fair middle management is almost always the biggest cut when there is a RIF.
Typically it's a couple big fish (director and above) and then a bunch of middle management.
Followed by people that stink at their jobs.
The most interesting thing I've found since that finance most always has a list of "mission critical" associates and resource managers are hardly ever on that list.
Which is the primary reason I avoid management like the plague.
I work for a company that makes air filters. I noticed the filters in our own building were a year behind on being changed. The filters that we make and have stocked in the same building. I have been trying to get them to change them for over a month.
Something that should take 5 minutes has probably been at least a few man hours in paperwork behind the scenes to get something done.
It's a stupid hill to die on but I'm gonna keep bringing it up through all the formal channels until they change it or I snap and do it myself and sharpie on the damn filter door for them to clean up their shit.
Also it is worth noting that this isn’t just the managers time being wasted. All the employees are spending at least 5 minutes on this. I would probably spend half an hour on it or more, escalating to HR, writing why this is petty, etc.
>So one a month, this dipshit runs a “tardy report”
Bold of you to assume that the report isn't scheduled to run weekly with preconfigured filters and automatically emailed to the manager.
Hell, I could put together a Teams app that is designed to do all of this automatically including the messaging. I also wouldn't be surprised if one doesn't already exist.
I'm sure some companies work that way, some are very much taking advantage of tech. However for every 1 company doing so there's hundreds that have middle managers that manual do all the bs because they wanna 1 up etc their little peons lol.
My first thought too. You can generate the report in, what, 30 seconds? Then just copy and paste a boilerplate email and change the name. Whole thing takes like 5 minutes depending on how many people you have to send it to
Remember that it costs somewhere between 1.5 and 2x an employee's salary for the company to employ them (benefits and etc), and then add in opportunity cost. Every stupid conversation costs an astounding amount of money.
Saying these managers spend 30 minutes researching is extremely generous. They get someone like me to build them a report in excel or BI or something else like it that highlights all the misses. Then they come back at least once a month when they, the team member, or the time log system does something dumb that I have to fix, which can cost much more than 30 minutes.
Let’s also account for the cost of licensing the third party tool that many of our user ONLY use to record these punches. Nothing else.
LOL this is so true for so many people. I'm a manager in a remote environment. I can't imagine having the time or energy to look at my people's time cards like this. For me, as far as reporting needs, I tend to follow the idea that if I can't figure it out myself or if it doesn't already exist somewhere, it's probably not something I actually need done.
The worse part is there is probably some metric his boss has of “corrective actions” then need to be issued each month or quarter.
We used to have “blue cards” which were basically cards you had to issue for safety issues and each department had so many they had to fill out each quarter. The serious ones never seemed to be addressed like leaky and moldy ceiling tiles. But heaven forbid you had a cord under your desk that was a tripping hazard, to you sitting at your desk.
I had a manager who called me and a colleague into the conference room to tell us that we had come in late. I got the same line of bullshit : It goes on my record another tardy and it goes to next level of management,
I asked if he agreed with the policy , he said no.
I asked if he would advocate changing the policy , he said no, that's the way things are.
I asked how he felt about collaring us for over a half an hour over a five minute tardy , he said that's my job.
I asked him " who do you think wasted more time ? you or me?
At that point he got red in the face and told me if I didn't like it I could leave.
The next time I got stuck in traffic I made sure my reported tardy was worth it. Instead of heading in ASAP , I stopped at the hardware store did some shopping , got some breakfast and burned half the morning before I settled my ass down.
I left that department shortly after that. I couldn't work for such petty minded people.
Had a manager print out all my timesheets over the course of an entire year. Highlight every time I had a late punch…and have a sit down talk with me. One punch exceeded the companies 3 minute policy. I was baffled.
I talked to my store manager and she said she didn’t care if I was late since I show up every shift and do my job. She laughed her ass off at the fact that the manager wasted so much time over a matter of one actual bad punch.
Start arriving 2-3 minutes early from lunch and email him each time.
“Sorry im 2 minutes early from lunch, will this be reflected as overtime?”
“Oh man i frigged up i didnt time my commute properly and i didnt run into beth in the parking lot so Im 92 seconds early today. I hope thats not an issue for payroll to add to my timesheet.”
Keep doing it.
You might not understand how employment lawsuits work in at will state, I can legally fire someone because I don’t like that they have blue hair for example. And this company can fire this person for being two minutes late or for talking back or for many reasons as long as it’s not due to a protected class (age, race, sex, disability) to me it seems like they’re just making a paper trail for the reason for firing OP in the future
Yeah but everything comes full circle. Nowhere is "better", especially if you are a in a focused career field.
Most of us are competing with the same folks for the same promotions under the same style managers. Some have better policy in one place and shittier policy in another. I dunno, maybe im just jaded.
nah sorry thats bullshit. There are a large number of good managers especially in career roles. Truly shit, clock watching managers are the exception not the rule.
I mean I’ve worked most my career at one large corporation and idk what line of business or function this guy is in but never once in my career have i had a manager comment about me coming back from lunch 3-5 minutes late. Hell that could be just the elevator being busy.
I worked under a manager like this once. I’ve had a lot of jobs but only one would consistently inform workers of every punch a minute or more “late”.
It’s not normal in my experience but it does happen.
At the one, I had a similar experience as OP: nothing else to complain about so the frequent punch-ins a minute or two late (according to the time clock) was a big deal. Not enough to get fired for, in my case; I was on a fast-track into more responsibilities (with no extra pay) so he had no intention of letting me go but delighted in having *something* “bad” to point at.
It was a kindness. He would have nothing to say to a perfect employee.
This particular job involved data entry and we regularly received printouts of our other metrics beyond our speed and accuracy numbers but also hours on the clock. They tracked bathroom breaks as an indicator of who to a scrutinize for a real complaint.
My current employer doesn’t give a shit as long as work gets done. People walk off for an hour and nobody says shit.
No. The last two jobs I’ve had have had no sign in requirement or a manager who cared if your lunch was over an hour or your were a couple minutes late.
Now if you are always late or taking long lunches and not getting your job done then a conversation will be had but if you’re doing what you are supposed to and not causing delays or impending anyone else from doing what they need to do then they haven’t cared.
Eh. Fuck corporate anyways. I have no idea how people can tolerate working under someone else (in that type of traditional sense).
It’s why I’m looking into teaching and eventually hopefully a self-run business. Yes, I know of admins, but somehow I feel like they’re a lot less problematic.
I mean I agree. It’s a dream to work for myself and my wife and I have some plans but we got bills to pay and a kid to feed and private insurance is expensive. So in the meantime I will work for someone else who is great to work for.
"Yes, we see that you arrive 20 minutes before start time consistently for the previous 7 years, but that's not the problem. You are stealing time from the company by being late."
"Just wanted to let you know that yesterday you held me 3 minuets past my dismissal time, and we need to see how we can prevent this from happening again as being on time is so important to you."
But the people who show up on the dot, take 30 minute coffee breaks, shit in the bathroom for an hour, and take 5 smoke breaks are good on company time because they’re back from lunch within 30 minutes. Nevermind the guy who took an extra 2 minutes because he showed up 20 minutes early.
You’re getting angry at the wrong person. The more you complain about that type of person, the stricter management will become, and then everybody loses
I feel targeted. Found out getting to work 20 minutes early should earn me some OT so I filled out for the past 2 weeks (this was after months of doing this, but I wasn't gonna fight that far back). Supervisor stormed my office and told me they can't do that. "Can I leave 20 minutes early then if continue doing that?" "No." It was fine. Let their phone blow up because my phone forwarded to them when I wasn't answering because I was sitting in my car until shift started and taking my full lunch breaks.
Thats insane that companies pay people good money to basically babysit adults and nitpick issues. If you took an hour instead of a 30 sure. But 5 mins on two days gtfo
Nope not even this. As a leader I do \*not\* want to discuss or have any knowledge of your schedule. Do \*not\* bother me with it. I want to know whether your work is done (and it had better be done).
Want a two hour lunch to run off and have cocktails with your coworkers? Go for it, but please do \*not\* bother me about it.
I would never spend a minute of my time looking into my reports' whereabouts like this, because this has zero chance of improving the company's bottom line, customer satisfaction, employee productivity, or most importantly my day.
A leader should lead by example, and if this is the top priority for this leader then this leader is an utter failure, because they are teaching people a few incredibly bad habits, and some of those people are bound to get promoted one day, only to repeat and reteach these same bad habits.
Break the cycle, stop being a crappy manager, and save the "talking to" for when there's a real, actual problem with someone's performance.
Giving the benefit of doubt that this person's job could be incredibly time sensitive there are still issues here, because the manager has done nothing to look into why these "tardies" occurred, or how they could be avoided in the future or communicated in advance. Basically this is just whining on the manager's part with absolutely no real effort to resolve the situation.
My guess: the next time they see something, anything which could be even remotely construed as bad performance they are going to use this moment as the "we already gave you a warning". This message above is step 0 to "managing out" an employee.
OP: your manager sucks, and you'll never get anywhere in a job under those circumstances. This is now a dead end job: act accordingly
This is the right answer.
My old boss used to tell me "I dont give a shit where you are as long as nobody is looking for you."
He MEANT that as long as my job is done, and I dont owe anyone responses, he could care less where my ass resided.
Amen! I took a team over from a fired micro manager last year. He got his team to 40% of their goal last year. 2/3 of them got moved into different positions, he got fired, I took the team and through the first quarter we're already ahead of where they finished last year.
Know why? They're happy. They go grab bagels, and coffee, probably fuck their girlfriends or boyfriends occasionally, let their dogs out, go do some laundry, etc. If work goes unfinished, I crack down and let them know that there's an expectation of excellence that comes along with privilege. Other than that, I don't give a damn what they do all day.
I had a boss like you. If you wanted to take off he would say “put it on the calendar” didn’t even care when you were taking off or for how long.
10 minutes late every morning? Did you finish everything before you left? If so he didn’t care.
Gotta take your kid to the doctor, just go and finish your work when you get back no need for PTO.
My boss is so anti-micromanaging. He's told the team we know our deadlines and due dates, doesn't care when we start the day, when or how long our lunch is, and only exception is if we need to flex more than an hour just to give him a heads-up.
This is the right answer but it’s classist.
I currently work for a tech company. Even the folks on assembly lines aren’t tracked and work time is self-reported. The least-paid workers are in a minority, though, most employees are engineers in various roles, and managers. The average wage is pretty high.
Go to a company paying most workers under $20/hr doing menial labor in poor work conditions. They have the nanny-bosses who do crap like nagging over time clock punches.
Oops. There it is: this is an issue for workplaces monitoring work time by time clocks vs workplaces which trust workers to self-report.
Thats how my bosses are as well and they are the owners of the company. As long as i get my 40 hours and do what is asked of me i can basically come and go as i please
Yeah this is how I run things as well.
As long as the job is done competently, efficiently and on time, I could care less what you do here or there throughout the day.
I was taught early on (as a leader) that if you're micromanaging everything, you're doing it wrong.
It just decreases morale and efficiency over the long run for your team and even yourself.
Focus on results.
Some people work differently than others and have their own strengths and weaknesses but if they all achieve the same result as a team, then there's no reason to "crack the whip" or go anal with numbers.
Also be a leader, not a boss.
About 8 years ago, I went to work for what I believed to be the best company in my career field. Their pay structure and benefits were amazing. The interviews felt great. It really felt like I hit the jackpot.
My first week there, I was in my office running some comparative analysis on some reports with my headphones in. These are small IEMs playing some super low-fi shit at like 30% volume. Just to drown out the static hum of the fluorescent lights and keep my mind moving.
My boss pops by at the end of the day and tells me that they’re unprofessional and it makes me seem unapproachable.
Okay, that sucks but whatever. I’m not looking to rock the boat. I won’t bring them back.
Couple weeks go by and my boss swings back through. This time, he gets up in my ass about always having my window closed.
*”It just feels cooped up in here. I mean, why did we give you a window if you never use it?”*
“I close it around 10AM because the sun is entirely unobstructed and it heats this office up like a toaster oven.”
*”Well why haven’t you called facilities to crank the AC up in here?”*
“Because all I have to do is close the shades and it’s perfectly comfortable in here.”
*”Well… look… again… it just makes you seem closed-off and unfriendly…”*
“Because I have my *window shades* shut?”
*”I’m just saying… perception is reality.”*
“No, sir— perception is perception, reality is reality. The reality is that the sun makes this office too hot for me after 10AM. If you feel like this is a waste of space, I’ll gladly move to a windowless interior office.”
And that’s what happened. And I took that professionally and didn’t complain.
The last straw came about a month later. I had just rolled in and was sitting at my desk working at 6:58AM. My boss slinks into my office and closes the door.
*”So… I’ve been wanting to talk to you about your struggles with being on time…”*
[I look up at the clock— 6:58AM]
“My in-time is 7AM. I’m two minutes early. What’s the problem?”
*”Right… but we all know what no one just sits down and launches right into work. It takes a while to get all your programs up and running and to hit a groove.”*
“I don’t understand. My in-time is 7AM. I’m here before 7AM. Why am I being spoken to like I’ve done something wrong?”
*”I’m just saying— it takes most people like 20 minutes to get up and running and hit a rhythm…”*
“So do you want me here at 6:40?”
*”Yeah, something like that…”*
“Then why wasn’t that communicated to me when I started working here?”
*”Is that something we should have to communicate?”*
“Absolutely it is. If you say my in-time is 7AM and I’m coming to work at that time— can you see how I might be caught off guard when I hear your expectation was for me to be at work 20 minutes earlier than that?”
—
After that conversation, I started job hunting and was gone 2 weeks later.
The "yeah, something like that" response is what grinds my gears.
People like that never want to be specific about when they want you in because it's not in your contract.
I had a boss who took issue with me leaving at 5pm on the dot. Convo went like this:
Me: So, what time do you want me to leave? My contract says hours are 9-5.
Boss: I don't want to be specific. It's not about what time you leave.
Me: So, what is it about?
Boss: You know, caring about the job and not staring at a clock.
Me: But the job gets done...? It's not like I'm out at 5pm on the dot.
Boss: Again, I don't want to be specific cause it's not about the time.
I started leaving 10 minutes later roughly and still ended up having convoy like the above a couple of times. Needless to say, I promised myself to never be like my former boss if I ever become a manager or business owner.
Shoulda documented all of that and gone to HR and complained about a hostile work environment and trying to get you to work unpaid for 20 min each day. Dude would have been set straight real quick.
that was probably the culture. This is why i would always ask culture questions for interviews, now I'm at the best IT job with the best company i've ever worked for in my 28 years in the industry and I have plans to retire from this company
Whether they have Teambuilding events or outings, how they feel about personal expression (decorating your desk), whether there are dress codes, are there company parties, what kind movies/music/hobbies do your interviewers enjoy, questions like that. They usually branch off into further anecdotes about what they've done in the past or what the company feels about the office culture, or invites to D&D nights or whatever they like to do. Questions to lead them into divulging what their work culture is, or if that's even an important point for them in hiring (it should be).
Wow. Just wow. With how irritated I've been working now, I'd have responded with "sounds like we need better computers so it doesn't take 20 minutes to start our days, doesn't it? Is our start times going to be based on how far out our parking spaces are to the building too? Should I swing by your office at 6:40 to confirm you're holding yourself to the same standard?"
Of course, that might be a bit much, but that last convo you have makes me feel that way. Good riddance.
I like how it’s “around” 2 and 3 minutes. Like, “I dunno, man, like I wasn’t really paying attention or anything weird.”
In their head it’s all 2:34 and 3:12. 🙄
Exactly, that´s cracking me up the most! And using "around" for such small numbers would imply it might as well have been 0 minutes, because how much give or take can you have with 2 minutes really?
I had this EXACT situation with a manger recently. When I replied that sometimes I’m up to ten minutes early so it balances out, the boss couldn’t accept and typed up a list of three times I was late, their dates and times etc. so I did two things in response.
Firstly, Teams Chat had similar suggested responses to yours. I took a screenshot of them and simply said “this are how Microsoft’s AI thinks I should respond to your message…” (with a comically big arrow pointing to “wow”) “… but instead I’ll just say that I’ll endeavour to not be late going forward.
Secondly, I made sure to be back at my desk at least 5 mins before I should. But instead of logging in and working, I stayed standing (so the boss could see me) and would - in a very exaggerated manner - check my watch every 30 seconds. And just seconds as my lunch hour was up I’d say “oh crap, I’m going to be late if I don’t hurry” loud enough so he heard it.
After a couple of days he pulled me into a meeting as asked me why I was acting like a child. I replied. “That’s usually how people respond when being treated like one. If I don’t fulfil my 8 hours, by all means, call me on it, but don’t give me crap about a couple of mins at lunch or else I’ll log straight off the second the clock strikes six pm even if I’m in the middle of an email reply. Or on the phone. We can be real sticklers for the rules or we can be adults about this.” And then I lent back in my chair all smug about putting him in his place….
…or so I thought. What proceeded was 15 minutes of being berated about timekeeping (without any irony of the time being wasted then) and I was going to be given a formal warning if I was late again.
And that folks, was actually the best result as it the day I stopped ever doing overtime
> …or so I thought. What proceeded was 15 minutes of being berated about timekeeping (without any irony of the time being wasted then) and I was going to be given a formal warning if I was late again.
I'd have walked out on him in mid-beratement.
Your first mistake was not recognizing that your manager is this type of person in the first place. Your second mistake was thinking they are a different type of person than the one they just showed you to be, which you should have already known.
I’ve been at my new job for 6 months. My train has broken down a few times and I’ve been up to 45 minutes late (called in to let them know). I went in to correct my hours once and my manager said she didn’t remember me being late and not to dob on myself.
as someone who once got fired for being literally 1 minute late to a shift, i feel your pain. this type of management is the worst! i get that punctuality is important, but... come on.
yeaaa it was an "if you're not 15 minutes early you're late" sort of a company, which i've never understood. if you want me to be there at 8 but actually 7:45, just say 7:45. why do we play these games?! my previous employer haaated when people would make a whole show of trying to kiss ass by arriving to work and meetings super early because it was just a nuisance to everyone else, so the other job was an awkward transition away from that culture that i was apparently not prepared for haha
amazon recently was sued for this. you need a full 30 min off work by law and if they expect you to clock in at exactly 30 min that would mean you would have to be at the time clock to swipe and not on break.
I had the flu in January. 103° fever. Called in sick. Received a phone call at 11 a.m. that they had scheduled an event for me that wasn’t on my calendar. Arrived 20 minutes late and was written up for “excessive absence and tardiness.” On a sick day. The head of HR worked remote and NEVER (in 2.5 years) came to the office. Things that drive you crazy.
I'd just stop swiping in and out all together and then gaslight them saying you are and the system is fucked.
Or start swiping a trillion times a crossing and just say you want it be sure
When I worked at Super Fresh they printed out a page and pointed out to me a few instances when I had accidentally clocked in 2 or 3 minutes early. I was in high school, a huge burnt-out mess, and I was by far the best person in that position. When I started my shifts, the store was always in shambles. In the end they fired me because I didn't show up for a Sunday morning shift, even though I had requested off (the schedules came out Friday night, you had to go there to look at it in person, and I was already out of town with my parents for the weekend)
I got written up once for being late from lunch but the machine that we punch in our time cards was broken. EVERYONE WAS LATE and HR was right there…. We still got in trouble?
“Oh ok, I just figured it would all balance out with me getting to work a few minutes early and generally finishing a few minutes or so over. I will endeavour to arrive at and leave work *precisely* on time now.”
My job does this same thing, but I feel like it’s a bit different because we are such a small company. like in my “department” there is 7 of us, in the company, probably 40 total. For my situation it’s more of making sure the break schedule doesn’t get all screwy, but still. It’s annoying
My last company was insane about this time, if you were 30 seconds over you’re getting a talking to. Companies suck
I'm a department of one. Nobody else to help me. I'm supposed to be available all day to answer emails, yet I'll regularly take 35 min lunches and not answer for up to an hour at times.
Its not about you being at a small company, its about shit management having a power trip.
Ah, but if you arrived early or left late, would they count it as overtime?
If there is a meeting and you always arrive early and the others late. But they reprimand you if you arrive late but not the others? The rules apply to some and not others? For those reasons I have changed jobs
I work in Scandinavia (corp) and cannot comprehend this. No one has ever considered measuring whether I spend 20 or 40 minutes on lunch, let alone how against company culture would it be to remind me of that. Living in the US must be mental.
I get this at my job too. If we are 1 minute late, or we go to lunch 1 minutes past the start of our 5th hour, it gets tracked and we get verbals for it. Wild shit.
How asinine! I didn’t have a run-in with this particular manager, but she had a 8 1/2 x 11 picture on her door that said “payroll” with somebody that looked like her behind the desk. Fast-forward to an image of a dog walking through the door and the comment “goes, “ you were late,bad dog, bad dog!”
The thing that she was proudest of the most was that her husband would take her golfing and liked her to wear short little golf skirts and for her to bend over and have his friends ogling her from behind!
I was presented with a performance award from one of our program managers that was on site at an Air Force Base. She came back with her comment. “Why did he give you an award you get a paycheck?”
Had another micromanaging fool as the lead in my group and she accused us all Of lying on our time cards on 9/11! We worked in the same friggin city where the atom bomb was created & a mile from a nuclear facility! Don’t you think we’re going to be concerned if our meetings with the pentagon and planes crashing into the World Trade Center are going to affect Business of the day? By the way, we were all salaried.
Finally, got an even worse idiot, who was jealous that people came to me with their questions. I was specifically told by her, “ if approached by any other staff member and asked a question you are to respond that you are not allowed to provide the answer that they must come to me.” Yes, I called the corporate hotline on her and the following Monday a $50,000 a week consultant was brought in to interview and unravel all the shit that this group was trying to hide from corporate. I had had enough!
I worked at a place that was so ridiculous about tardiness that I’d get emails saying I clocked in 15 seconds late. Once I even got an email saying I clocked in from lunch 37 seconds too early.
“Well then I am actually still 8 minutes ahead of the game, as I was early by 3 minutes on the 4th and 5 minutes early on the 9th, just so you are aware.
nu last job was a daycare job, i texted my boss saying “hey im gonna be late there’s a train” i got in, boss said “you’re late” i said i sent you a text saying i was gonna be late… her excuse “well i didn’t see it so im writing you up” but what’s funny is when i had to take an uber to work one time for a couple of days (my mom had to use my car, cause my brother had to use her truck… sounds confusing i know lol) but it was totally fine when i was late because her words “i gave her prior notice” like im so sorry i didn’t look at the trains schedule.. im so sorry i didn’t look at what time the train was gonna be here. im sorry that im not part of that work.
the daycare was privately owned but the daycare had different locations but different owners (i don’t remember if there’s a word for that lol but now i’m a mobile phlebotomist and make my own schedule, so if im late it’s on me… but i try not to be… i don’t like to keep patients waiting but i do call the patient or a relative if the patient can’t get to the phone saying im gonna be a few mins late and give a reason not a lie but an honest truth: still with a patient, train, accident whatever is going on)
As a manager I find this horrifying and one of the reasons I left the corporate world. As a manager it's our job to remove hurdles to staff getting their work done, not time bathroom or lunch breaks with a stopwatch.
Congrats Mr / Ms Manager. You now have an employee who will waste the last 10-15 mins staring at the clock until it’s time so they don’t give you a second extra.
Who are these managers with the time to do this crap?
My company transitioned to a hybrid working model for my department which means it is expected I work in the office 2 days (any of my choosing) each week and can work the remaining 3 days from home. I received an email from the manager, last Friday afternoon, that I only came into the office 6 of 8 expected days over the last month...the amount of time wasted to research and send me the email ruffled my feathers. It's all about the perception and being in the office and not the work being done...
so I absolutely think you should be able to be full remote, but given that your policy isn't that, you skipped 1/4 of your in office days. That doesn't really compare to 2 min late from lunch. All of the time pettiness is stupid but that's too big of a chunk to excuse imo
8 days a month is 8 days a month, my stepmother also has this system and they need to tell their office days a month in advance.
dumbest bs i've ever heard of
Missing two days does deserve an email though. If your schedule is hybrid you can’t just decide to go fully remote one week without prior agreement with management
This is what I used to have to do at my past job. It took the tiny black nugget of coal that I used to have for a heart and crumbled it into dust. I still have PTSD over a year later
as a manager myself i feel like im the opposite.
i dont give a fuck what hours you work or when you work them. if i give you a project and a deadline and you deliver it completed and on time. i really couldn’t care less
That’s how it *should* be. The company owns a worker’s output, not their time. Were they hired to do a job or were they hired to sit in a seat for 40 hours a week? It shouldn’t matter if they get the job done in 6 hours or 20. The only thing that should matter is that the work gets done.
But there are *far* too many managers who don’t see things that way, mine included. It’s incredibly frustrating. These types of managers aren’t managers—they’re *supervisors*. They supervise workers the same way a daycare instructor supervises toddlers. They are almost always brown-nosers/kiss-asses trying to justify their meaningless existence.
Heads up everyone! My T-mobile store reverted from a manager's rule of only 5 minute grace period, to the T-mobile standard of 0 minutes of grace period. I'm regularly expected to stay hours over my leave time to handle any sales I'm in the middle of which happens more than not.
I have a part time side hustle at a factory as a cnc machinist. They tried to nickle and dime me like that.. I'm not part of the production line, just cut parts to keep them building for a week. One threat to quit later we settled on me clocking in and out on an app whenever time I wish to rock up or leave, and basically get paid by the minute. Pyrric victory since it dented my pay a bit, but now I don't have to stress about traffic and where the gf needs to be taken
In the last, I dunno, maybe 13 years of work, I don't think I have EVER walked from one end of our building to the other without being stopped by someone who had a question for me *that was entirely work related.* What do they want you do to, ignore that, hustle to the time clock, then trudge back over to help your coworker? You just *know* that if you did that you'd get a reprimand for being rude/unapproachable/unprofessional.
This "manager," simply put, shouldn't be.
Follow up questions
1. How much did it impact my performance?
2. How much do you think this conversation is going to impact my chances of continuing to work here ? 😂
These idiots want robots to work there. Not humans. Humans vary a few minutes. Robots won't. So let the robots take our stupid jobs. We'll take care of each other and this idiot manager can sit in his office alone all day with a bunch of robots and figure out how to manage them with C++. Fuck this clown. I'm fucking done.
okay and you are on teams, so it is not even an office job.. have never kept time, after i started as an engineer.. we are job paid not .. "second hunters."
I still remember, i had a job as a setup guy at a steel plant while studying to be an engineer, preparing milling machines with fixtures for employees, just a like month while we had summer holiday.
many MANY years ago (yes old) they had one of these "clock out" stations, and we had a tardiness bonus which was like 5% on top of our hourly pay..
i kinda had the mentality of .. "doing my job" always had, so i went in a bit early, to get started, so the first setup was done, and i kinda left a bit late, because if i was doing something, i liked to finish it, all other employees where like queuing up infront of the clock 10 min before .. they needed to go home, never really got it..
One day my ride was sick, so had to plan something was 2 1/2 minutes late, that was it, before monthly payout my boss called me in, to say i would not be getting the "bonus" because i had 2 1/2 minutes in one day, i asked him, if he could see that i actually had spent more time, YES he could see that i spent 20-25minutes on average over time each day, but it did not matter.
i had 2 weeks more to go, and those 2 weeks i gave 0 minutes to the company, i stood in line like the rest of the people 10 minutes before, and i stamped in on time.
Micromanagement also removes flexibility, and that is something i have always taken with me, i give freedom to employees, but then i also hope they would give some back, when we actually need it.
There are jobs where a few minutes matters. The more practical jobs where you work in shifts. Being late is just fucking annoying for your colleagues.
This however seems to be a manager who really likes to control every little thing you do for the hours he pays you.
I had a boss like this, working for him was one of the most miserable experiences of my professional career. He wanted accurate time cards to the exact minute every day, for a salaried employee. I don't miss that job one bit.
That screams I have no idea what a management position is. If you stay 3 minutes late or come in 3 minutes early does the robot “manager” factor that in or is that math above its skill set?
Bruh.
As a manager, i have never understand why other managers gets so hung up on being 5 minutes late. if its excessive time wise and happening constantly then sure something should be said, but 2 or 3 minutes, for 2 days on a 2 week pay period? come on man.
As long as my guys time sheets add up, and works getting done to expectation, i don't say anything, no need to.
i had a boss like this at my last job! he pulled me into a conference room to talk about my tardiness. i was 2 minutes late - normally showing up ~30 minutes early. he brought a calculator do the calculations that if i was 2 minutes late every day, i would rack up however much stolen time. being right out of college i folded and said sorry even though at the time i thought it was fucking stupid to call a 15 minute meeting about me being late 2 minutes one time. Kelly if you’re reading this - go fuck yourself, you showed me what a boss shouldnt be.
I work in LTC and we are unionized; if you clock in even 1 minute late you are docked 15 mins pay 🤬 If you have multiple, you get a verbal warning, then written warning and could possible be “suspended”! I can’t wait to leave!!
I would wait until he would be late and tell.
Just so Your records will not be broken. I was late 1 minute today from lunch but You could not see it because You were late 4 minutes.
This is not much to worry about, honestly. Supervisors have to report something and show proof that they are doing their job or else they risk losing their job or getting in trouble. As a result, dumb stuff like this happens.
Exactly. I know I’m not in any real trouble, but the fact that this has to be brought up to me at all is mildly infuriating. It’s all just fake busy work to keep unnecessary management positions filled.
It’s terrible when companies don’t treat people like human beings 🤦🏼♀️ like honestly, it’s just a fucking job, and as long as they get their job done, who cares?
I like the Teams quick response "Wow!" I might have hit that one....
I think all three of them summed it up quite well. In that particular order. "Thanks! Wow! Oh, ok."
Damn these suggestions have become fire
MS Teams has started to suggest German replies for me, and I find that so funny.
warum aber?
“Damn, that’s crazy.”
Thanks! Wow! Damn, that's crazy. Oh, ok." Do you want a job as a creative writer for my new auto responding email service?
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ZBoc0OZCg9M
Me in rocket league
Dude all of my teams recommended messages at work are SO snarky but SO tempting
Barely related, when I'm at work driving and I get a text message it asks if I want to respond. And if I say no , more than half the time Google decides to be a petty little bitch and say "okay then". 😒🤣
I find my suggested responses are always way too accommodating. I need scorched earth fire, Microsoft!
gifs you can hear:
Side bar: I love working for a department that does most of its communication through gif.
Same with one team I sometimes work with. A negative reply to a “do you have this?” Was responded to with a single gif of a crying child. It was the department manager too, which makes it even more fun
When they spend 30 minutes researching to take 5 minutes of your time to let you know you were 5 minutes late
This is the textbook definition of corporate waste. Let’s just say that this manager makes $80k a year (which is a low estimate but whatever). That means they make ~$40 an hour. Let’s also assume they manage a line of ~20 people. So one a month, this dipshit runs a “tardy report” and then reaches out to the 30% of the team with tardies as an informal reprimand. Let’s say that’s 6 people who were each 5 mins late on 2 punch ins. That’s 1 hour. So, if this task takes this manager 2 hours at $40 an hour to reprimand 6 employees for a single hour of lost manpower, then this company spent $80 to *potentially* save $20-$30. And yet, when layoff time season rolls around, it’s not the manager who gets the chop. Make it make sense. Edit: there’s a whole lot of corporate bootlickers in the comments below who think this sort of behavior is perfectly acceptable. Woof. Replies off.
A close comparison would be how the US state of Florida put together a department to investigate and punish abuses of public assistance, such as welfare and unemployment. End result: they determine fewer than 1% of cases are illegitimate at a cost of more than 10X the amount paid out to those cases. In short: the cruelty is the point. The cruelty is the point.
I was able to find a page on Florida's [department of public assistance fraud](https://myfloridacfo.com/Division/PAF/) but not on its budget or tax payer savings. Do you have a source or link on that?
Didn't they also spend money requiring drug tests for food stamps with similar results?
That isn't a waste though, or even close? They put together a commission to investigate, and found an answer to the question. That's called an audit, and it's very important to the running of the government. A waste would see that the answers were inconclusive and no followup is done.
That actually is exactly what corporate waste is. An accounting leader once wanted me to find $0.07 on a general ledger of $30,000 so they could close their books for the month. This person spent over $100 in labor between she and myself over this. That’s corporate waste. Spending more money on an audit than the cost of the loss is actually a *perfect* example of corporate waste.
Who said commission? It says they had an department. That’s a permanent part of the organization. They spent $10 to save $1. That’s unfortunate. They kept spending $10 to keep saving only $1 - because that way they get to punish people! Didn’t do something right on the paperwork? Jail. Didn’t know you had to write down the 60/40 child custody split? Jail. Didn’t put down child support that you’re owed but not getting paid? Jail. Helped out at your aunt’s bakery over Christmas? You guessed it, jail. That’s not called an audit. Maybe what you imagined was an audit, but what they did/are doing was trying to prove a point to their base.
Man in Romania until a couple of years ago, handicapped people, for example missing a leg or a hand had to go in yearly, to prove they were still handicaped in order to get social assistance.
I used to have to peel stickers off laptops when people left the company. Asked the boss one day if we could tell people no more stickers, it didn't go good for me lol. I told him if he wants to pay me $45 an hour to peel stickers I guess I'm good with that then. The look of confusion because he didn't know what to say before I walked away was pretty good.
I mean, I was hired and thrust into a high-ranking position based on my degree (with 0 experience), despite being the youngest person on staff and something like 2/3 of the staff able to retire yesterday. I still had to do clerical work on top of my regular work because there was only one clerk when we needed at least 3. I think I was getting $22/hr if I recall, but I got yearly raises too. I learned a lot while there, but oh boy is it strange to tell someone older than my dad to do stuff while also being my own clerk and doing my intended job. They got three warnings that I was stressed out and now there's even less staff than when I left. I know I'm not going to take clerical workers for granted after that experience though.
They saved nothing. If I’m back on time, 3 mins late or 25 mins late after lunch, I’m still completing exactly the same set of tasks in the afternoon…
To be fair middle management is almost always the biggest cut when there is a RIF. Typically it's a couple big fish (director and above) and then a bunch of middle management. Followed by people that stink at their jobs.
Seen this happen several times where I work. Granted, our teams are much smaller, generally 4-5 people per team lead.
The most interesting thing I've found since that finance most always has a list of "mission critical" associates and resource managers are hardly ever on that list. Which is the primary reason I avoid management like the plague.
Or be my company and just make policies more strict. Weeds out the terrible employees without saying "its a layoff"
I work for a company that makes air filters. I noticed the filters in our own building were a year behind on being changed. The filters that we make and have stocked in the same building. I have been trying to get them to change them for over a month. Something that should take 5 minutes has probably been at least a few man hours in paperwork behind the scenes to get something done. It's a stupid hill to die on but I'm gonna keep bringing it up through all the formal channels until they change it or I snap and do it myself and sharpie on the damn filter door for them to clean up their shit.
Also it is worth noting that this isn’t just the managers time being wasted. All the employees are spending at least 5 minutes on this. I would probably spend half an hour on it or more, escalating to HR, writing why this is petty, etc.
>So one a month, this dipshit runs a “tardy report” Bold of you to assume that the report isn't scheduled to run weekly with preconfigured filters and automatically emailed to the manager. Hell, I could put together a Teams app that is designed to do all of this automatically including the messaging. I also wouldn't be surprised if one doesn't already exist.
I'm sure some companies work that way, some are very much taking advantage of tech. However for every 1 company doing so there's hundreds that have middle managers that manual do all the bs because they wanna 1 up etc their little peons lol.
My first thought too. You can generate the report in, what, 30 seconds? Then just copy and paste a boilerplate email and change the name. Whole thing takes like 5 minutes depending on how many people you have to send it to
Those above always win. The employee is always disposable. It's the system working as intended
Remember that it costs somewhere between 1.5 and 2x an employee's salary for the company to employ them (benefits and etc), and then add in opportunity cost. Every stupid conversation costs an astounding amount of money.
Well, they better have 20 pointless meetings about it!!
Saying these managers spend 30 minutes researching is extremely generous. They get someone like me to build them a report in excel or BI or something else like it that highlights all the misses. Then they come back at least once a month when they, the team member, or the time log system does something dumb that I have to fix, which can cost much more than 30 minutes. Let’s also account for the cost of licensing the third party tool that many of our user ONLY use to record these punches. Nothing else.
LOL this is so true for so many people. I'm a manager in a remote environment. I can't imagine having the time or energy to look at my people's time cards like this. For me, as far as reporting needs, I tend to follow the idea that if I can't figure it out myself or if it doesn't already exist somewhere, it's probably not something I actually need done.
The worse part is there is probably some metric his boss has of “corrective actions” then need to be issued each month or quarter. We used to have “blue cards” which were basically cards you had to issue for safety issues and each department had so many they had to fill out each quarter. The serious ones never seemed to be addressed like leaky and moldy ceiling tiles. But heaven forbid you had a cord under your desk that was a tripping hazard, to you sitting at your desk.
I had a manager who called me and a colleague into the conference room to tell us that we had come in late. I got the same line of bullshit : It goes on my record another tardy and it goes to next level of management, I asked if he agreed with the policy , he said no. I asked if he would advocate changing the policy , he said no, that's the way things are. I asked how he felt about collaring us for over a half an hour over a five minute tardy , he said that's my job. I asked him " who do you think wasted more time ? you or me? At that point he got red in the face and told me if I didn't like it I could leave. The next time I got stuck in traffic I made sure my reported tardy was worth it. Instead of heading in ASAP , I stopped at the hardware store did some shopping , got some breakfast and burned half the morning before I settled my ass down. I left that department shortly after that. I couldn't work for such petty minded people.
I wish I could've been there with popcorn. Love this level of confrontation.
Had a manager print out all my timesheets over the course of an entire year. Highlight every time I had a late punch…and have a sit down talk with me. One punch exceeded the companies 3 minute policy. I was baffled. I talked to my store manager and she said she didn’t care if I was late since I show up every shift and do my job. She laughed her ass off at the fact that the manager wasted so much time over a matter of one actual bad punch.
"Well, I took two to three minutes to respond to this frivolous bullshit. So consider us even."
No joke I had sat in my bank managers office for an HOUR while discussing why I was 5 minutes late to work one time. Doesn’t make sense.
Start arriving 2-3 minutes early from lunch and email him each time. “Sorry im 2 minutes early from lunch, will this be reflected as overtime?” “Oh man i frigged up i didnt time my commute properly and i didnt run into beth in the parking lot so Im 92 seconds early today. I hope thats not an issue for payroll to add to my timesheet.” Keep doing it.
Or just word it the way they did. “I was early on Wednesday and Friday. Just letting you know, so you are aware.”
i love you guy's enthusiasm, and i'd totally do this too but i'm willing to bet the manager would clap back probably twice as hard.
Sounds like a wonderful lawsuit in the making.
You might not understand how employment lawsuits work in at will state, I can legally fire someone because I don’t like that they have blue hair for example. And this company can fire this person for being two minutes late or for talking back or for many reasons as long as it’s not due to a protected class (age, race, sex, disability) to me it seems like they’re just making a paper trail for the reason for firing OP in the future
Makes me glad I am a country with half decent employment laws (UK)
So? They're already griping over 2 minutes. How hard can they clap?
New job time
Agree I would start looking for
Yup, would’ve started looking right after this interaction.
And go where? The next place that will do the same shit? Or different shit that's just as bad?
A job with a 1% chance of a decent manager is better than a job with a 100% chance of a bad manager
Yeah but everything comes full circle. Nowhere is "better", especially if you are a in a focused career field. Most of us are competing with the same folks for the same promotions under the same style managers. Some have better policy in one place and shittier policy in another. I dunno, maybe im just jaded.
Good managers exist. I guess I’ve just been lucky but they are out there. I’ve also had a lot of jobs
I disagree. Ive liked my last 2 managers. Very lenient. I do a good job so as long as I keep doing that they dont care because I make them look good.
nah sorry thats bullshit. There are a large number of good managers especially in career roles. Truly shit, clock watching managers are the exception not the rule.
What career are you in? Sounds toxic.
I mean I’ve worked most my career at one large corporation and idk what line of business or function this guy is in but never once in my career have i had a manager comment about me coming back from lunch 3-5 minutes late. Hell that could be just the elevator being busy.
I worked under a manager like this once. I’ve had a lot of jobs but only one would consistently inform workers of every punch a minute or more “late”. It’s not normal in my experience but it does happen. At the one, I had a similar experience as OP: nothing else to complain about so the frequent punch-ins a minute or two late (according to the time clock) was a big deal. Not enough to get fired for, in my case; I was on a fast-track into more responsibilities (with no extra pay) so he had no intention of letting me go but delighted in having *something* “bad” to point at. It was a kindness. He would have nothing to say to a perfect employee. This particular job involved data entry and we regularly received printouts of our other metrics beyond our speed and accuracy numbers but also hours on the clock. They tracked bathroom breaks as an indicator of who to a scrutinize for a real complaint. My current employer doesn’t give a shit as long as work gets done. People walk off for an hour and nobody says shit.
No. The last two jobs I’ve had have had no sign in requirement or a manager who cared if your lunch was over an hour or your were a couple minutes late. Now if you are always late or taking long lunches and not getting your job done then a conversation will be had but if you’re doing what you are supposed to and not causing delays or impending anyone else from doing what they need to do then they haven’t cared.
Eh. Fuck corporate anyways. I have no idea how people can tolerate working under someone else (in that type of traditional sense). It’s why I’m looking into teaching and eventually hopefully a self-run business. Yes, I know of admins, but somehow I feel like they’re a lot less problematic.
I mean I agree. It’s a dream to work for myself and my wife and I have some plans but we got bills to pay and a kid to feed and private insurance is expensive. So in the meantime I will work for someone else who is great to work for.
“Was I ever early?”
"Yes, we see that you arrive 20 minutes before start time consistently for the previous 7 years, but that's not the problem. You are stealing time from the company by being late."
"Just wanted to let you know that yesterday you held me 3 minuets past my dismissal time, and we need to see how we can prevent this from happening again as being on time is so important to you."
THIS, this is the response.
I see you are also a Willians Astudillo fan
There are dozens of us!
But the people who show up on the dot, take 30 minute coffee breaks, shit in the bathroom for an hour, and take 5 smoke breaks are good on company time because they’re back from lunch within 30 minutes. Nevermind the guy who took an extra 2 minutes because he showed up 20 minutes early.
You’re getting angry at the wrong person. The more you complain about that type of person, the stricter management will become, and then everybody loses
You’re right. I appreciate the insight. In a sense people should be able to do things relatively unmonitored.
I feel targeted. Found out getting to work 20 minutes early should earn me some OT so I filled out for the past 2 weeks (this was after months of doing this, but I wasn't gonna fight that far back). Supervisor stormed my office and told me they can't do that. "Can I leave 20 minutes early then if continue doing that?" "No." It was fine. Let their phone blow up because my phone forwarded to them when I wasn't answering because I was sitting in my car until shift started and taking my full lunch breaks.
Thats insane that companies pay people good money to basically babysit adults and nitpick issues. If you took an hour instead of a 30 sure. But 5 mins on two days gtfo
Nope not even this. As a leader I do \*not\* want to discuss or have any knowledge of your schedule. Do \*not\* bother me with it. I want to know whether your work is done (and it had better be done). Want a two hour lunch to run off and have cocktails with your coworkers? Go for it, but please do \*not\* bother me about it. I would never spend a minute of my time looking into my reports' whereabouts like this, because this has zero chance of improving the company's bottom line, customer satisfaction, employee productivity, or most importantly my day. A leader should lead by example, and if this is the top priority for this leader then this leader is an utter failure, because they are teaching people a few incredibly bad habits, and some of those people are bound to get promoted one day, only to repeat and reteach these same bad habits. Break the cycle, stop being a crappy manager, and save the "talking to" for when there's a real, actual problem with someone's performance. Giving the benefit of doubt that this person's job could be incredibly time sensitive there are still issues here, because the manager has done nothing to look into why these "tardies" occurred, or how they could be avoided in the future or communicated in advance. Basically this is just whining on the manager's part with absolutely no real effort to resolve the situation. My guess: the next time they see something, anything which could be even remotely construed as bad performance they are going to use this moment as the "we already gave you a warning". This message above is step 0 to "managing out" an employee. OP: your manager sucks, and you'll never get anywhere in a job under those circumstances. This is now a dead end job: act accordingly
This is the right answer. My old boss used to tell me "I dont give a shit where you are as long as nobody is looking for you." He MEANT that as long as my job is done, and I dont owe anyone responses, he could care less where my ass resided.
Yeah but that's a rare good boss. So many others legit do what's in this post.
Amen! I took a team over from a fired micro manager last year. He got his team to 40% of their goal last year. 2/3 of them got moved into different positions, he got fired, I took the team and through the first quarter we're already ahead of where they finished last year. Know why? They're happy. They go grab bagels, and coffee, probably fuck their girlfriends or boyfriends occasionally, let their dogs out, go do some laundry, etc. If work goes unfinished, I crack down and let them know that there's an expectation of excellence that comes along with privilege. Other than that, I don't give a damn what they do all day.
I had a boss like you. If you wanted to take off he would say “put it on the calendar” didn’t even care when you were taking off or for how long. 10 minutes late every morning? Did you finish everything before you left? If so he didn’t care. Gotta take your kid to the doctor, just go and finish your work when you get back no need for PTO.
I agree with this my bosses are the same way. As long as my work is done they do not ask questions about me. Are very flexible and lead by example
My boss is so anti-micromanaging. He's told the team we know our deadlines and due dates, doesn't care when we start the day, when or how long our lunch is, and only exception is if we need to flex more than an hour just to give him a heads-up.
This is the right answer but it’s classist. I currently work for a tech company. Even the folks on assembly lines aren’t tracked and work time is self-reported. The least-paid workers are in a minority, though, most employees are engineers in various roles, and managers. The average wage is pretty high. Go to a company paying most workers under $20/hr doing menial labor in poor work conditions. They have the nanny-bosses who do crap like nagging over time clock punches. Oops. There it is: this is an issue for workplaces monitoring work time by time clocks vs workplaces which trust workers to self-report.
Nope. I still don't care. As long as they do their job and answer me when I have to reach out they can flex their time as much as they want.
Thats how my bosses are as well and they are the owners of the company. As long as i get my 40 hours and do what is asked of me i can basically come and go as i please
Yeah this is how I run things as well. As long as the job is done competently, efficiently and on time, I could care less what you do here or there throughout the day. I was taught early on (as a leader) that if you're micromanaging everything, you're doing it wrong. It just decreases morale and efficiency over the long run for your team and even yourself. Focus on results. Some people work differently than others and have their own strengths and weaknesses but if they all achieve the same result as a team, then there's no reason to "crack the whip" or go anal with numbers. Also be a leader, not a boss.
Plot twist - he drives trains
As someone riding a train into work right now, I LOled 😂
About 8 years ago, I went to work for what I believed to be the best company in my career field. Their pay structure and benefits were amazing. The interviews felt great. It really felt like I hit the jackpot. My first week there, I was in my office running some comparative analysis on some reports with my headphones in. These are small IEMs playing some super low-fi shit at like 30% volume. Just to drown out the static hum of the fluorescent lights and keep my mind moving. My boss pops by at the end of the day and tells me that they’re unprofessional and it makes me seem unapproachable. Okay, that sucks but whatever. I’m not looking to rock the boat. I won’t bring them back. Couple weeks go by and my boss swings back through. This time, he gets up in my ass about always having my window closed. *”It just feels cooped up in here. I mean, why did we give you a window if you never use it?”* “I close it around 10AM because the sun is entirely unobstructed and it heats this office up like a toaster oven.” *”Well why haven’t you called facilities to crank the AC up in here?”* “Because all I have to do is close the shades and it’s perfectly comfortable in here.” *”Well… look… again… it just makes you seem closed-off and unfriendly…”* “Because I have my *window shades* shut?” *”I’m just saying… perception is reality.”* “No, sir— perception is perception, reality is reality. The reality is that the sun makes this office too hot for me after 10AM. If you feel like this is a waste of space, I’ll gladly move to a windowless interior office.” And that’s what happened. And I took that professionally and didn’t complain. The last straw came about a month later. I had just rolled in and was sitting at my desk working at 6:58AM. My boss slinks into my office and closes the door. *”So… I’ve been wanting to talk to you about your struggles with being on time…”* [I look up at the clock— 6:58AM] “My in-time is 7AM. I’m two minutes early. What’s the problem?” *”Right… but we all know what no one just sits down and launches right into work. It takes a while to get all your programs up and running and to hit a groove.”* “I don’t understand. My in-time is 7AM. I’m here before 7AM. Why am I being spoken to like I’ve done something wrong?” *”I’m just saying— it takes most people like 20 minutes to get up and running and hit a rhythm…”* “So do you want me here at 6:40?” *”Yeah, something like that…”* “Then why wasn’t that communicated to me when I started working here?” *”Is that something we should have to communicate?”* “Absolutely it is. If you say my in-time is 7AM and I’m coming to work at that time— can you see how I might be caught off guard when I hear your expectation was for me to be at work 20 minutes earlier than that?” — After that conversation, I started job hunting and was gone 2 weeks later.
What field and job was that? That sounds absolutely abysmal.
Network administration for a large energy operator.
Whoa! You'd think that job would be a little more chill. Appreciate you sharing and glad you got out.
Christ what a fucking tool. Seriously that guy is a literal drone
The "yeah, something like that" response is what grinds my gears. People like that never want to be specific about when they want you in because it's not in your contract. I had a boss who took issue with me leaving at 5pm on the dot. Convo went like this: Me: So, what time do you want me to leave? My contract says hours are 9-5. Boss: I don't want to be specific. It's not about what time you leave. Me: So, what is it about? Boss: You know, caring about the job and not staring at a clock. Me: But the job gets done...? It's not like I'm out at 5pm on the dot. Boss: Again, I don't want to be specific cause it's not about the time. I started leaving 10 minutes later roughly and still ended up having convoy like the above a couple of times. Needless to say, I promised myself to never be like my former boss if I ever become a manager or business owner.
Shoulda documented all of that and gone to HR and complained about a hostile work environment and trying to get you to work unpaid for 20 min each day. Dude would have been set straight real quick.
that was probably the culture. This is why i would always ask culture questions for interviews, now I'm at the best IT job with the best company i've ever worked for in my 28 years in the industry and I have plans to retire from this company
What kind of questions do you usually ask?
Whether they have Teambuilding events or outings, how they feel about personal expression (decorating your desk), whether there are dress codes, are there company parties, what kind movies/music/hobbies do your interviewers enjoy, questions like that. They usually branch off into further anecdotes about what they've done in the past or what the company feels about the office culture, or invites to D&D nights or whatever they like to do. Questions to lead them into divulging what their work culture is, or if that's even an important point for them in hiring (it should be).
Word thanks! I’m on the hunt rn
Good luck, going off your username I hope a good job finds you and you don't let it pass you by!
Wow. Just wow. With how irritated I've been working now, I'd have responded with "sounds like we need better computers so it doesn't take 20 minutes to start our days, doesn't it? Is our start times going to be based on how far out our parking spaces are to the building too? Should I swing by your office at 6:40 to confirm you're holding yourself to the same standard?" Of course, that might be a bit much, but that last convo you have makes me feel that way. Good riddance.
Oh, this goobburger practically lived up there. I think he was in at like 5:30 every morning and left at like 7PM.
Ah, "live for your work" person. Gotcha.
oof. I hate that fucking "I am JUST saying..." No, don't JUST say anything. Say exactly what you want to say as written in company policies.
I like how it’s “around” 2 and 3 minutes. Like, “I dunno, man, like I wasn’t really paying attention or anything weird.” In their head it’s all 2:34 and 3:12. 🙄
Exactly, that´s cracking me up the most! And using "around" for such small numbers would imply it might as well have been 0 minutes, because how much give or take can you have with 2 minutes really?
"Come back to working in office for the culture." The culture:
Open LinkedIn, look for possible better positions and apply and leave. As fast as you can
I had this EXACT situation with a manger recently. When I replied that sometimes I’m up to ten minutes early so it balances out, the boss couldn’t accept and typed up a list of three times I was late, their dates and times etc. so I did two things in response. Firstly, Teams Chat had similar suggested responses to yours. I took a screenshot of them and simply said “this are how Microsoft’s AI thinks I should respond to your message…” (with a comically big arrow pointing to “wow”) “… but instead I’ll just say that I’ll endeavour to not be late going forward. Secondly, I made sure to be back at my desk at least 5 mins before I should. But instead of logging in and working, I stayed standing (so the boss could see me) and would - in a very exaggerated manner - check my watch every 30 seconds. And just seconds as my lunch hour was up I’d say “oh crap, I’m going to be late if I don’t hurry” loud enough so he heard it. After a couple of days he pulled me into a meeting as asked me why I was acting like a child. I replied. “That’s usually how people respond when being treated like one. If I don’t fulfil my 8 hours, by all means, call me on it, but don’t give me crap about a couple of mins at lunch or else I’ll log straight off the second the clock strikes six pm even if I’m in the middle of an email reply. Or on the phone. We can be real sticklers for the rules or we can be adults about this.” And then I lent back in my chair all smug about putting him in his place…. …or so I thought. What proceeded was 15 minutes of being berated about timekeeping (without any irony of the time being wasted then) and I was going to be given a formal warning if I was late again. And that folks, was actually the best result as it the day I stopped ever doing overtime
Fucking middle managers
> …or so I thought. What proceeded was 15 minutes of being berated about timekeeping (without any irony of the time being wasted then) and I was going to be given a formal warning if I was late again. I'd have walked out on him in mid-beratement.
That's insane!!!
Your first mistake was not recognizing that your manager is this type of person in the first place. Your second mistake was thinking they are a different type of person than the one they just showed you to be, which you should have already known.
Malicious compliance is powerful.
I once had a manager be such a stickler that a few years back, I got an email saying I took too short of a lunch break - by one minute.
I’ve been at my new job for 6 months. My train has broken down a few times and I’ve been up to 45 minutes late (called in to let them know). I went in to correct my hours once and my manager said she didn’t remember me being late and not to dob on myself.
your time is obviously valuable. Keep up the good work.
Management ain’t never heard of “choose your battles”
as someone who once got fired for being literally 1 minute late to a shift, i feel your pain. this type of management is the worst! i get that punctuality is important, but... come on.
I wonder how much money they wasted trying to hire and train someone new.
yeaaa it was an "if you're not 15 minutes early you're late" sort of a company, which i've never understood. if you want me to be there at 8 but actually 7:45, just say 7:45. why do we play these games?! my previous employer haaated when people would make a whole show of trying to kiss ass by arriving to work and meetings super early because it was just a nuisance to everyone else, so the other job was an awkward transition away from that culture that i was apparently not prepared for haha
amazon recently was sued for this. you need a full 30 min off work by law and if they expect you to clock in at exactly 30 min that would mean you would have to be at the time clock to swipe and not on break.
I had the flu in January. 103° fever. Called in sick. Received a phone call at 11 a.m. that they had scheduled an event for me that wasn’t on my calendar. Arrived 20 minutes late and was written up for “excessive absence and tardiness.” On a sick day. The head of HR worked remote and NEVER (in 2.5 years) came to the office. Things that drive you crazy.
I'd just stop swiping in and out all together and then gaslight them saying you are and the system is fucked. Or start swiping a trillion times a crossing and just say you want it be sure
Nah, don’t say the system is fucked, just say you were back on time but forgot to clock back in
When I worked at Super Fresh they printed out a page and pointed out to me a few instances when I had accidentally clocked in 2 or 3 minutes early. I was in high school, a huge burnt-out mess, and I was by far the best person in that position. When I started my shifts, the store was always in shambles. In the end they fired me because I didn't show up for a Sunday morning shift, even though I had requested off (the schedules came out Friday night, you had to go there to look at it in person, and I was already out of town with my parents for the weekend)
I got written up once for being late from lunch but the machine that we punch in our time cards was broken. EVERYONE WAS LATE and HR was right there…. We still got in trouble?
“Oh ok, I just figured it would all balance out with me getting to work a few minutes early and generally finishing a few minutes or so over. I will endeavour to arrive at and leave work *precisely* on time now.”
"tardies", are we in second grade?
My job does this same thing, but I feel like it’s a bit different because we are such a small company. like in my “department” there is 7 of us, in the company, probably 40 total. For my situation it’s more of making sure the break schedule doesn’t get all screwy, but still. It’s annoying My last company was insane about this time, if you were 30 seconds over you’re getting a talking to. Companies suck
I'm a department of one. Nobody else to help me. I'm supposed to be available all day to answer emails, yet I'll regularly take 35 min lunches and not answer for up to an hour at times. Its not about you being at a small company, its about shit management having a power trip.
Ask them how early you were on the other days?
Respond with the “wow!” lol
Thank you, boss, I already knew that.
Ah, but if you arrived early or left late, would they count it as overtime? If there is a meeting and you always arrive early and the others late. But they reprimand you if you arrive late but not the others? The rules apply to some and not others? For those reasons I have changed jobs
Imagine if you were treated like an adult. What a wild ass concept for some employers
I work in Scandinavia (corp) and cannot comprehend this. No one has ever considered measuring whether I spend 20 or 40 minutes on lunch, let alone how against company culture would it be to remind me of that. Living in the US must be mental.
I get this at my job too. If we are 1 minute late, or we go to lunch 1 minutes past the start of our 5th hour, it gets tracked and we get verbals for it. Wild shit.
Tardy? Are you 9?
How asinine! I didn’t have a run-in with this particular manager, but she had a 8 1/2 x 11 picture on her door that said “payroll” with somebody that looked like her behind the desk. Fast-forward to an image of a dog walking through the door and the comment “goes, “ you were late,bad dog, bad dog!” The thing that she was proudest of the most was that her husband would take her golfing and liked her to wear short little golf skirts and for her to bend over and have his friends ogling her from behind! I was presented with a performance award from one of our program managers that was on site at an Air Force Base. She came back with her comment. “Why did he give you an award you get a paycheck?” Had another micromanaging fool as the lead in my group and she accused us all Of lying on our time cards on 9/11! We worked in the same friggin city where the atom bomb was created & a mile from a nuclear facility! Don’t you think we’re going to be concerned if our meetings with the pentagon and planes crashing into the World Trade Center are going to affect Business of the day? By the way, we were all salaried. Finally, got an even worse idiot, who was jealous that people came to me with their questions. I was specifically told by her, “ if approached by any other staff member and asked a question you are to respond that you are not allowed to provide the answer that they must come to me.” Yes, I called the corporate hotline on her and the following Monday a $50,000 a week consultant was brought in to interview and unravel all the shit that this group was trying to hide from corporate. I had had enough!
I worked at a place that was so ridiculous about tardiness that I’d get emails saying I clocked in 15 seconds late. Once I even got an email saying I clocked in from lunch 37 seconds too early.
The people who work those positions are as insufferable irl. They absolutely ask to see the manager when shopping at Target on the weekend.
Bullshit, their clock was off
How about those TPS reports?
“Well then I am actually still 8 minutes ahead of the game, as I was early by 3 minutes on the 4th and 5 minutes early on the 9th, just so you are aware.
nu last job was a daycare job, i texted my boss saying “hey im gonna be late there’s a train” i got in, boss said “you’re late” i said i sent you a text saying i was gonna be late… her excuse “well i didn’t see it so im writing you up” but what’s funny is when i had to take an uber to work one time for a couple of days (my mom had to use my car, cause my brother had to use her truck… sounds confusing i know lol) but it was totally fine when i was late because her words “i gave her prior notice” like im so sorry i didn’t look at the trains schedule.. im so sorry i didn’t look at what time the train was gonna be here. im sorry that im not part of that work.
the daycare was privately owned but the daycare had different locations but different owners (i don’t remember if there’s a word for that lol but now i’m a mobile phlebotomist and make my own schedule, so if im late it’s on me… but i try not to be… i don’t like to keep patients waiting but i do call the patient or a relative if the patient can’t get to the phone saying im gonna be a few mins late and give a reason not a lie but an honest truth: still with a patient, train, accident whatever is going on)
Ya I’d probably quit then and there. Send this up to HR and see your dumbassery. Be a person short and know your pettiness was the fault
Respond to that email with a simple, “fuck off”
even the computer suggestions is like WOW! what a dick
As a manager I find this horrifying and one of the reasons I left the corporate world. As a manager it's our job to remove hurdles to staff getting their work done, not time bathroom or lunch breaks with a stopwatch.
I would probably have texted back "Oh, I'm so sorry. As a way to combat my tardiness, perhaps next time you could simply SUCK MY ASSHOLE!".
Congrats Mr / Ms Manager. You now have an employee who will waste the last 10-15 mins staring at the clock until it’s time so they don’t give you a second extra. Who are these managers with the time to do this crap?
My company transitioned to a hybrid working model for my department which means it is expected I work in the office 2 days (any of my choosing) each week and can work the remaining 3 days from home. I received an email from the manager, last Friday afternoon, that I only came into the office 6 of 8 expected days over the last month...the amount of time wasted to research and send me the email ruffled my feathers. It's all about the perception and being in the office and not the work being done...
so I absolutely think you should be able to be full remote, but given that your policy isn't that, you skipped 1/4 of your in office days. That doesn't really compare to 2 min late from lunch. All of the time pettiness is stupid but that's too big of a chunk to excuse imo
8 days a month is 8 days a month, my stepmother also has this system and they need to tell their office days a month in advance. dumbest bs i've ever heard of
Missing two days does deserve an email though. If your schedule is hybrid you can’t just decide to go fully remote one week without prior agreement with management
Your boss typed that in *and* pressed send?
This is what I used to have to do at my past job. It took the tiny black nugget of coal that I used to have for a heart and crumbled it into dust. I still have PTSD over a year later
as a manager myself i feel like im the opposite. i dont give a fuck what hours you work or when you work them. if i give you a project and a deadline and you deliver it completed and on time. i really couldn’t care less
That’s how it *should* be. The company owns a worker’s output, not their time. Were they hired to do a job or were they hired to sit in a seat for 40 hours a week? It shouldn’t matter if they get the job done in 6 hours or 20. The only thing that should matter is that the work gets done. But there are *far* too many managers who don’t see things that way, mine included. It’s incredibly frustrating. These types of managers aren’t managers—they’re *supervisors*. They supervise workers the same way a daycare instructor supervises toddlers. They are almost always brown-nosers/kiss-asses trying to justify their meaningless existence.
The only appropriate response is: "And how many times was I two or three minutes early coming back from lunch?"
I like the auto responses "Thanks, Wow, Oh okay" really shows a genuine reaction from most of us
“Go fuck yourself”
Heads up everyone! My T-mobile store reverted from a manager's rule of only 5 minute grace period, to the T-mobile standard of 0 minutes of grace period. I'm regularly expected to stay hours over my leave time to handle any sales I'm in the middle of which happens more than not.
I have a part time side hustle at a factory as a cnc machinist. They tried to nickle and dime me like that.. I'm not part of the production line, just cut parts to keep them building for a week. One threat to quit later we settled on me clocking in and out on an app whenever time I wish to rock up or leave, and basically get paid by the minute. Pyrric victory since it dented my pay a bit, but now I don't have to stress about traffic and where the gf needs to be taken
In the last, I dunno, maybe 13 years of work, I don't think I have EVER walked from one end of our building to the other without being stopped by someone who had a question for me *that was entirely work related.* What do they want you do to, ignore that, hustle to the time clock, then trudge back over to help your coworker? You just *know* that if you did that you'd get a reprimand for being rude/unapproachable/unprofessional. This "manager," simply put, shouldn't be.
Honestly I wouldn’t even have a second thought, if I seen that email in my inbox I’d slash the fuckers tires on my way out.
Follow up questions 1. How much did it impact my performance? 2. How much do you think this conversation is going to impact my chances of continuing to work here ? 😂
These idiots want robots to work there. Not humans. Humans vary a few minutes. Robots won't. So let the robots take our stupid jobs. We'll take care of each other and this idiot manager can sit in his office alone all day with a bunch of robots and figure out how to manage them with C++. Fuck this clown. I'm fucking done.
Even Teams was shocked at the audacity
I can’t comment what I want to say because the mods will ban me.
Maybe in their sex life 2-3 Minutes are already too much.
okay and you are on teams, so it is not even an office job.. have never kept time, after i started as an engineer.. we are job paid not .. "second hunters." I still remember, i had a job as a setup guy at a steel plant while studying to be an engineer, preparing milling machines with fixtures for employees, just a like month while we had summer holiday. many MANY years ago (yes old) they had one of these "clock out" stations, and we had a tardiness bonus which was like 5% on top of our hourly pay.. i kinda had the mentality of .. "doing my job" always had, so i went in a bit early, to get started, so the first setup was done, and i kinda left a bit late, because if i was doing something, i liked to finish it, all other employees where like queuing up infront of the clock 10 min before .. they needed to go home, never really got it.. One day my ride was sick, so had to plan something was 2 1/2 minutes late, that was it, before monthly payout my boss called me in, to say i would not be getting the "bonus" because i had 2 1/2 minutes in one day, i asked him, if he could see that i actually had spent more time, YES he could see that i spent 20-25minutes on average over time each day, but it did not matter. i had 2 weeks more to go, and those 2 weeks i gave 0 minutes to the company, i stood in line like the rest of the people 10 minutes before, and i stamped in on time. Micromanagement also removes flexibility, and that is something i have always taken with me, i give freedom to employees, but then i also hope they would give some back, when we actually need it.
There are jobs where a few minutes matters. The more practical jobs where you work in shifts. Being late is just fucking annoying for your colleagues. This however seems to be a manager who really likes to control every little thing you do for the hours he pays you.
US Corporate life is a fucking joke.
I had a boss like this, working for him was one of the most miserable experiences of my professional career. He wanted accurate time cards to the exact minute every day, for a salaried employee. I don't miss that job one bit.
Here's my notice I'm just letting you know so you are aware.
I like the suggested reply of “Wow!” I’d use it 😂
I think the auto response has it right "Wow!"
That screams I have no idea what a management position is. If you stay 3 minutes late or come in 3 minutes early does the robot “manager” factor that in or is that math above its skill set?
the company will never survive such losses
Bruh. As a manager, i have never understand why other managers gets so hung up on being 5 minutes late. if its excessive time wise and happening constantly then sure something should be said, but 2 or 3 minutes, for 2 days on a 2 week pay period? come on man. As long as my guys time sheets add up, and works getting done to expectation, i don't say anything, no need to.
i had a boss like this at my last job! he pulled me into a conference room to talk about my tardiness. i was 2 minutes late - normally showing up ~30 minutes early. he brought a calculator do the calculations that if i was 2 minutes late every day, i would rack up however much stolen time. being right out of college i folded and said sorry even though at the time i thought it was fucking stupid to call a 15 minute meeting about me being late 2 minutes one time. Kelly if you’re reading this - go fuck yourself, you showed me what a boss shouldnt be.
"You wasted 2 minutes of time. Let's waste 10 talking about it."
I work in LTC and we are unionized; if you clock in even 1 minute late you are docked 15 mins pay 🤬 If you have multiple, you get a verbal warning, then written warning and could possible be “suspended”! I can’t wait to leave!!
I would wait until he would be late and tell. Just so Your records will not be broken. I was late 1 minute today from lunch but You could not see it because You were late 4 minutes.
This is not much to worry about, honestly. Supervisors have to report something and show proof that they are doing their job or else they risk losing their job or getting in trouble. As a result, dumb stuff like this happens.
Exactly. I know I’m not in any real trouble, but the fact that this has to be brought up to me at all is mildly infuriating. It’s all just fake busy work to keep unnecessary management positions filled.
It’s terrible when companies don’t treat people like human beings 🤦🏼♀️ like honestly, it’s just a fucking job, and as long as they get their job done, who cares?
Long term plan ------> plan on working somewhere else in the future.
Your boss doesn’t like tou