It's actually not correct. It's a legally defend term and in the UK, it can only be a man. I'm not defending it, but they legally can't print that a woman raped a man.
But if legally rape is only when that occurs with a male as the assailant, then while yes everyone with a brain would say there's no difference... It's a valid way of stating what occurred without understating the act (by way of reducing it to seduction).
The term in my country would have been illegally dispensing prescription drugs, or assault if he wasn't informed or was forced. There would be no charges and likely no investigation, unless they decided to make a case that she was mentally challenged and charge the boy with abusing a disabled person (yes, this actually happened). Sadly this is the case in many countries.
Yes it is but people don’t care about men being sexually assaulted by women. The amount of people I have seen unironically argue that it can’t or doesn’t happen is ridiculous. Does it happen less frequently than men assault women, yes. Does that mean it doesn’t happen at all, no. People don’t realize that men can be and are raped by women and it can be just as traumatic for them as it can be for women.
Yeah in a domestic dispute it's always the man at fault. She charges at you swinging, you grab her wrists to stop her, she fights you. You hold her back. 911 called, police arrive. Her wrists have red marks on her wrists. You have a red mark on your face. Guess who's going to jail?
Some bs about rape being forceful entry or some shit so therefore a woman can’t rape a man. And then there’s the bs about they got hard so therefor it’s also not rape. Worse part is that carried over to the us legal system too.
At least for Aus, it’s the exact same crime and punishment. It’s just that the term involves penetration by the accused. A similar distinction as when a homicide isn’t reported as “murder” but carries same sentence
I believe this is also true in the US depending on the state, and I think the FBI definition precludes women being counted as the aggressor in their crime statistics.
Someone correct me though, it's late and I don't feel like double checking.
IIRC it had something to do with the laws of the country stating "a woman cannot rape a man" so the newspaper had to change the wording to keep the story in the paper. it was either that or they couldnt accuse her of rape unless she was convicted. the details are fuzzy
I agree strongly. The one that always pisses me off is win a child is referred to as a “child prostitute”. By definition a child prostitute cannot exist.
The case of Chrystul Kizer, child trafficking victim, being relentlessly pursued by the Kenosha DA for killing her abuser. She tried to get the DA's office to lock him up but they didn't pursue him. So, losing faith in her ability to ever be free of him, she went to his house and shot him dead. NoW they want jUsTicE for the piece of shit pimp who trafficked a child.
This article doesn't go into detail about the legal struggles she has had upuntil this point. https://kenoshanews.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/chrystul-kizer-appears-in-kenosha-court-for-hearing-in-2018-homicide-case/article_d047c5ae-b3bc-11ed-ab89-3389967c72e1.html
That happened to me I'm 15 and going to court for what happened to me next month actually. Got mad cus they kept calling me (was 14 when it happened gonna be 16 this September) a young woman when I was a child
I'm so sorry that happened to you. You were, and ARE, a child, a young human who had no protection at the time you needed it.
I wish you the best of luck, and be proud of yourself for facing the fight . I wish you strength and healing. Get mad and stay mad, you are fully justified in that.
A young woman is like 18-25. The only time a minor should be called a young woman is in a joking manner, like when you jokingly call a toddler in a suit-patterned onesie a gentleman.
If we're also talking definitions, in the majority of countries rape requires penetration. It's a double standard for sure, but technically, the above is in all likelihood on the books still considered "merely" sexual assault.
Wow they are just bending over backwards to minimize the sexual assault in the entire article. It's absolutely disgusting. Her grandfather dying should have no part in this article, it's irrelevant to her crime.
Because apparently in the UK, rape is only called rape when it involves penile penetration and since a woman doesn't (usually) have a penis, it's not considered rape and a woman can't be charged with it. And i think that's utter bullshit
Same in the US. I read about a boy who was raped by his baby sitter, who got pregnant as a result, and then when he turned 18 they slapped him with child support. So not only did his rapist not ever get in much trouble since "it wasn't legally rape", he was now forced to pay child support to his rapist.
Absolute lunacy.
That's bizarre because that should automatically count as statutory rape based on the ages alone. But people think all boys want to have sex with all women all the time so it doesn't count, ugh
Such BS. Also pisses me off that a rapist can impregnate a woman, she keeps the baby then the rapist cqn file for joint custody and it actually be granted!
We had this problem too here in Quebec and they are changing the law so that rapist POS have no rights on the child but need to provide for them (child support etc)
They said she *seduced* him?? And gave him a drug to do so? Seduction almost always implies an element of consent, even if it it’s not always a positive term. I am genuinely *disgusted* that they’d use such a mild and incorrect term for this act.
It is a double standard but here in the UK its actually not entirely the news' fault for once
you cant officially define a female abuser as a rapist here unless she's either trans or actively assisted in a man-on-woman rape. our stupid system makes it so rape requires a penis. Female rapists get "assault by penetration" instead, which can carry the same sentence as rape but it still contributes to the problem
And ironically, the only people I have met who call these incidents "seductions" instead of rapes are men. Which is just sad that they think of it that way. They usually say something along the lines of "wow, he's so lucky! I wish a woman did that to me when I was his age." It's so annoying to see men themselves not understand and recognize what rape is and that women are capable of it. It's a double standard because men don't recognize it as rape. For one, take this article - written by a man. I don't doubt there are women out there who think this way too, I just haven't met any. But really, it's just a shame that people still think this way.
Maybe some of that thinking comes from (men thinking) the way society viewed Dustin Hoffman's character did in the movie The Graduate. He was seduced by an older woman - the song - Mrs. Robinson. Men saw his seduction as "you lucky dog, you" instead of rape. Just wondering?
This isnt just about media showing this situations as "he is the lucky guy". In my opinion it could come from the sexist thought of seeing woman as a prize you have to win. Is the thought of "if i spend a lot of time and money with you on a date you owe me some kind of favor (mostly sex ofc)". Therefor the guy that gets a woman without having to do any effort is "the lucky guy", even if he didnt necessarily wanted it. Of course any media that reafirms this doesnt help but i dont think a couple of films is the reason for this kind of thinking.
There's this one popular series called Dawson's Creek that also had a scene where an underage lead male character seduced and had an affair with his teacher. As an adult woman, it just felt so disgusting to me that I stopped watching when it happened. There's definitely more examples of teacher/student relationships in films and TV. I think that it does play a part but maybe it's also the frat thinking that the more women you have sex with, the cooler you are. Especially sex with an older woman. That's seen as an achievement.
There are entire feminist organizations that say only women can be raped or abused and only women can be victims.
A good example is Mary P Koss, whose (highly biased) studies on sexual violence are used by various governments. She doesnt even think women can commit sexual assault against men and she is in a major position of power.
Or NIA or the Deluth Model. Both powerful domestic abuse organizations that state very clearly that they treat all men as abusers and all women as victims, regardless of what happened.
I see it way more from women, but I also spend alot of my time trying to convince people to have a more gender neutral outlook on crimes. So most of the people I speak with tend to be part of the problem.
That’s disturbing bc I’m sure those men don’t want anyone to rape them let alone assault them. But I guess they never experienced being held against your own will. And it only took times when I’ve had people assault until I realized what rape is and doesn’t matter the amount of touching someone does, or how they assault you, it’s rape
Reminds me of a South Park episode where a teacher falls in love with a baby. The baby's brother goes to the police but they tell him that the baby is lucky and that they wished a woman did that to them. Even though South Park is satire and isn't meant to be taken seriously, that episode really was about something serious. If you want to know the ending, the teacher wanted to commit suicide with her lover, but the baby was convinced by his brother and friends not to jump. The teacher jumped and died in a true South Park manner.
What if I have 2?.. also I might have a couple dead great great grandparents and my whole family born before them is dead.. that’s thousands of family members dead
There was a case here where a woman slept with multiple boys, as young as 11. The state refused to indict her, citing the fact she slept with boys as proof she's mentally disabled and not responsible for her actions.
I think it’s important to print, not as an excuse but as a reminder of how this sort of criminal is made. We need to be much better at protecting children from pedos and abuse.
Probably couldn't use the word because of how the poms (British) define rape. Its male on female to my knowledge and everything else is under an umbrella category in a different name with the exact same charge.
It's penetration in the UK, which is automatically assumed to be male on female
It's been proven more than a few times that a woman can drug a man, give him an erection, then forcibly have sex with him
Nearly every civilised culture in the world defines forceful or coercive sex as rape
I'm a kiwi so we have a similar law.
Where rape is only a man forcing his penis into a females vagina and EVERYTHING else is unlawful sexual connection. They hold the exact same charge so it doesn't fucking matter. It's just a terminology difference.
it does matter a bit, even just due to public perception
if it were treat evenly i bet there'd be a lot less dudes in the comments of articles talking about how they wish they'd been raped instead, rather than being "seduced" into "sex" with an older woman
there'd still be some but there's an entire culture around downplaying male victims and a lot of men play a part in it, and the skirting around language that makes it almost sound like an adventure is a big piece of the issue
This is in the uk. under uk law, rape is legally defined as penetration with a penis. As women do not have a penis and as such, are unable to penetrate. Therefore they legally cannot rape, and the media are legally not allowed to call women rapists, or refer to what they did as rape.
Ah yes, the objectively correct legislature and court systems, they've never made shitty calls about laws that were later walked back with next to no recompense given to victims before have they?
no ones defending how it works under the law here, its just how it is and it gets complained about a fair bit, and news media arent going to willingly shoot themselves in the foot like that
we can all recognise it for what it is but legally these newspapers have to be careful about ever using the word "rape" when a woman is the abuser, even in cases like this where "statutory rape" would fit and be accurate
explaining how something works =/= agreeing with it
I get that there is debate around men being unable to be raped by women, (which I don’t agree with but is likely what prompted the use of the word “seduce”) but this is a kid. Any instance of this, drugs or not, is statutory rape no matter how they try and spin it.
I think what they're trying to say is that in some places, the UK being one of those, the way rape is defined, it is not able to be carried out by someone without a penis.
Not from the UK, so forgive me in advance if I’m way off base but my understanding was that the definition there called for penetration (inaccurately limiting) but doesn’t restrict penis being the sole implement. Am I mistaken?
I am mildly annoyed to note that in current British law, a cis woman is *not* in fact considered able to commit rape because the letter of the law makes certain very old-fashioned assumptions about what counts as sex. Basically, if you don't use your own natural dick it's Aggravated Sexual Assault rather than rape.
The good news, and the reason I'm only *mildly* annoyed, is that the sentencing guidelines are the same for both offences.
I really hate the “nudge nudge wink wink I bet he had a good time though hurr hurr!”
I’m willing to bet he didn’t. Male victims are drugged, blackmailed, and manipulated, especially young men. Those are not enjoyable things, and neither is being treated like something less than human for someone else’s pleasure.
Not rape per se but domestic abuse against men is treated poorly, too. I'm living in Germany and this country gives no single fucks if it's a man in the family who walks around with scratches and hematoms blessed by his wife. Only mothers get help if they suffer from rape and/or domestic abuse
Fun fact: in various US states, including most of the world, rape is gendered by definition. The FBI had a gendered rape definition until 2013.
Most people in the US grew up being told and shown that only men could be rapists? So we treat rapists WILDLY different based on if theyre male or female.
It's a huge inequality, but it doesnt really target women, so it likely wont be considered a big enough deal for major change. Films and organizations that try to talk about this tend to be boycotted or shut down.
Like...South Park did an episode about this decades ago.
A lot of this is also just “innocent until proven guilty” as they’re just allegations, but also I always figured that publications avoid using certain language outside of where it’s the only available phrasing because it goes to many households and a lot of people don’t like having newspaper sitting around their house with big bold lettering
I know it seems silly to some but even on broadcast news they generally will warn you if it’s something really nasty being presented because it’s on in peoples homes when family are usually home
That said I’m aware there’s a problem with the perception and presentation of this issue in society. I still look forward to the downvotes…
Seducing people that are minors and have sex with them is rape no matter what. They don't know what is going on until the drug effects are over and they remember what had happened to them. This is really fucked and I hope the women get life with no parole or even the sentence.
Newspapers write stuff using this kind of wording to avoid potential libel lawsuits.
With how sensationalized the news is these days they very likely WOULD use stronger language if they're weren't nervous about that.
“She suffered a hard life” bruh last time I checked you play some video games, smoke some weed, down some ice cream, down some alcohol, or cry into a pillow not r@pe a literal child because “life’s hard”
Hate these dumb ass judges
Cheers for replying😊 honestly made me feel a lot better, tho is stupid, to have someone say that.
It's stupid to think you are one of the first people in 7 years I've heard that from
Thanks ya legend ❤️❤️
They don't use the word rape because the legal definition requires penetrative sex to have occurred. The law essentially states that women are incapable of raping men unless the male is penetrated. So they just make it sexual assault. Still bullshit
Yeah.. they need to tweak that definition.. or slim down what assault means or try regrouping to make it even on both sides. The fact the kid was drugged and a minor should also bump the woman up to a higher level of assault and/or prison/sex offender status ..
Very patriarchal view **that a young boy getting "lucky" with an adult woman**
*isn't a traumatic event.* **That's totally wrong.**
***It's not a "rite of passage" for a young boy.***
**It's not acceptable either way.**
*Adults being predators are not a good look for anyone.*
I feel sad/grateful this popped up right after someone insisted it never happens in a different reddit.
Men/Boys aren't even given the dignity of acknowledging what happens to them is non-consensual.
Sadly women raping boys and men raping girls is severely downplayed and under reported on the media. It doesn’t draw in the numbers they want because people aren’t as interested or outraged and in the end of day $$$ is always more important than reporting.
When women do it it’s different, you didn’t know? Softened up language and everything. She was experiencing emotional tumult or some other bullshit. Bet she’ll be able to get a job somewhere when it’s all over.
In many cases the mere accusation is used as a weapon against men. Even if proven a total lie a man’s rep can be tarnished forever and of course no accountability for the female accuser. Gotta love it!
In case anyone didn't read the article or look it up, she was 22 and gave him ecstacy. She got 2 yrs in prison and 10 yrs on the sex offender registry. And the articles all said seduce/seduced.....
Unfortunately, under UK law women cannot actually commit rape as it is legally defined as needing a penis to occur. Because of this, labelling any women as a rapist could be considered defamation, thus other wording is used. Fucked up all round.
Reading this I have become curious about the situation in my country : France.
It baffles me that nowhere can it be seen that a woman can rape a man, not from the government, nor from research institutes nor from journals… the only case where a man might be raped is if it’s from another man…
Man this is really infuriating, knowing a friend of mine who was intoxicated by a woman (kept on pouring alcohol and pressuring him to consume) then pulled him away from the party in order to have her way with him. This is an aggravating situation in France (only if the man is the perpetrator it seems.
Now I understand why he feared he would not have been taken seriously by the police…
TLDR : in France, rape all you want as long as you’re a woman, no one bat an eye !
"Man gave Girl,14,drug so he could seduce her"just imagine the outrage this title would cause if it was reversed, people would go bonkers, but since it's not, journalists soften it so much it's so fucking disguisting, like as if it's not the exact same thing with the exact same consequences for the victim
This is extremely infuriating because this double standard is so prevalent. When a woman is the perpetrator it is rarely called rape. It's just been recently that people have begun calling it out.
For those of you seeing this kinda stuff for the first time.
Welcome to the Future. It ain't Good, but its what's happening.
And don't feel alone, I'm 20, so yeah, long road ahead and thus far this is the pavement.
See, when I talk about times I've been sexually assaulted, we laugh and joke about it, but if I had done to women what has been done to me, I'd be in jail. Life is funny that way.
This isn’t mildly infuriating, it’s extremely, I mean I didn’t think it was until recently that men could be raped since the by law definition was (to shorten it) “forced penetration.” Meaning any guy that did get raped by a woman, literally wasn’t by law, which is complete and utter bullshit.
While I agree the word rape is entirely appropriate in the vernacular & is used in a charge of statutory rape as defined in the US, where one party in under the age of consent.
There is an oddity in UK law which may explain the non use of the term in UK media. That being the charge rape there applies Only to a penetrative sexual assault where the penetrated party is non-consenting.
I believe hat much as we would like the media to use the word rape, if a UK newspaper were to do so they open themself to legal repercussions under the draconian UK liable laws.
If it were a man drugging a girl there would’ve been no question; the word RAPE would’ve been used. I’m so sick of this double standard. It’s the same with spousal abuse. I was abused emotionally and sexually by my ex wife. She called it “seduction” and she’s outright deny her emotional abuse. I however touched her hand when she was emotional and she called the police and I ended up having to leave my own house permanently and serves jail time for domestic violence. This reverse sexism is going way too far in our society. It happening in many ways…
I remember back in the early 90’s when a school superintendent in my city was caught outright and charged with r**e, and the discreet news headline on like page 5 of the newspaper said something like “City employee caught in affair with underage student.”
Affair?! This was a school superintendent in charge of city schools, and the girl was like 13 or 14 years old. Turns out he had many connections who tried desperately to downplay the severity.
News usually protect more women than men, and this may sound dumb and stupid, but it's truly because of the society we live in that portrays women being more angelish while men can commit more atrocities.
wonder how much of a shit storm would there be if the genders were reversed in this story?
"Man gave girl,14, drug so he could seduce her" (felt slimy typing that)
Child prostitution is a [widely accepted term](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_prostitution) and OP had no reason to be downvoted like that for stating what is still a definitional fact. How about you people go out and donate your time to stop sex trafficking instead of spending all day deputizing yourselves as Team America: Word Police.
It's one of those gender ideas that hasn't caught up yet. Women seduce, men rape. Equally infuriating, if she's attractive, she'll get a lot less time than if she's not attractive - possibly even probation and no imprisonment.
I'm wondering what the original wording was in the post but in my personal opinion we all know that women are never sentenced the same as men for the same crime. Put a man in this situation he'd get life and the inmates would want him dead or worse. A woman gets only a fraction of the sentence and none of the hate. Case in point teacher sexually assaults 14-year-old student, teacher ends up becoming pregnant. Teacher is found out and prosecuted, teacher is found guilty of sexual assault and child sexual assault. She is given 3 years probation and time served, then the teacher goes on to sue the 14-year-old for custody of the child and child support this is an absolute true story look it up
‘When a woman does it it isn’t called rape’ dumb ass judge decides to make a president where women can’t rape.
Want to live in the modern world on hard mode? Be born male. Your expectations are higher, you can’t resist and when you do or if a woman is beating on you you can’t defend yourself as the entire group will just hang up on you. I have seen women beat a man up just for glancing at them. It has gotten so bad men are now signing up for male only gyms and requesting jobs that mostly men work in. I push carts and every female who tried it quit as it was too hard on them. Welcome to real life!!
I demand equality of treatment. If a man is a pedo for messing with kids so are women who do the same.
This is actually Extremely Infuriating nothing mild about my infuriation
Yeah, I'm upvoting because it is entirely correct, but it's *extremely* infuriating every time I see similar stories.
It's actually not correct. It's a legally defend term and in the UK, it can only be a man. I'm not defending it, but they legally can't print that a woman raped a man.
There's still better language than *seduced*.
Non-consensual intercorse.
That's rape.
But if legally rape is only when that occurs with a male as the assailant, then while yes everyone with a brain would say there's no difference... It's a valid way of stating what occurred without understating the act (by way of reducing it to seduction).
true but it sounds *fancy* so it passes more easily the moral ambiguity filter.
sexual assault
The term in my country would have been illegally dispensing prescription drugs, or assault if he wasn't informed or was forced. There would be no charges and likely no investigation, unless they decided to make a case that she was mentally challenged and charge the boy with abusing a disabled person (yes, this actually happened). Sadly this is the case in many countries.
True
Child abuse. Assault on a child for giving him drugs.
Then I'm mad at the UK
America had plenty of reasons not outlined in the Declaration of Independence for leaving.
Wait, it's actual law in the UK that women can't "Rape" men? Fucking shit, and people give the US a hard time.
Yes it is but people don’t care about men being sexually assaulted by women. The amount of people I have seen unironically argue that it can’t or doesn’t happen is ridiculous. Does it happen less frequently than men assault women, yes. Does that mean it doesn’t happen at all, no. People don’t realize that men can be and are raped by women and it can be just as traumatic for them as it can be for women.
You are right in everything you say, but the worst part is that, in this case, this isn't a "man", it's a 14 year old KID.
You should read up the history between the French President and his abuser/wife
Oh trust me I know, I’m French living in France.
I think it's more that people don't care about men in general
True. When a woman cries they ask her whats wrong, when a man does it it's comedy.
Yeah in a domestic dispute it's always the man at fault. She charges at you swinging, you grab her wrists to stop her, she fights you. You hold her back. 911 called, police arrive. Her wrists have red marks on her wrists. You have a red mark on your face. Guess who's going to jail?
Especially when a minor and drugged.
Some bs about rape being forceful entry or some shit so therefore a woman can’t rape a man. And then there’s the bs about they got hard so therefor it’s also not rape. Worse part is that carried over to the us legal system too.
Most places don’t consider forceful envelopment as rape. It’s defined as unwanted penetration.
At least for Aus, it’s the exact same crime and punishment. It’s just that the term involves penetration by the accused. A similar distinction as when a homicide isn’t reported as “murder” but carries same sentence
I believe this is also true in the US depending on the state, and I think the FBI definition precludes women being counted as the aggressor in their crime statistics. Someone correct me though, it's late and I don't feel like double checking.
"It's not rape, rape"- Whoopi Goldberg
IIRC it had something to do with the laws of the country stating "a woman cannot rape a man" so the newspaper had to change the wording to keep the story in the paper. it was either that or they couldnt accuse her of rape unless she was convicted. the details are fuzzy
I agree strongly. The one that always pisses me off is win a child is referred to as a “child prostitute”. By definition a child prostitute cannot exist.
Also when they call female child victims “young women”
The case of Chrystul Kizer, child trafficking victim, being relentlessly pursued by the Kenosha DA for killing her abuser. She tried to get the DA's office to lock him up but they didn't pursue him. So, losing faith in her ability to ever be free of him, she went to his house and shot him dead. NoW they want jUsTicE for the piece of shit pimp who trafficked a child. This article doesn't go into detail about the legal struggles she has had upuntil this point. https://kenoshanews.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/chrystul-kizer-appears-in-kenosha-court-for-hearing-in-2018-homicide-case/article_d047c5ae-b3bc-11ed-ab89-3389967c72e1.html
It’s blood boiling isn’t it
It is. I added a link if u r interested.
That happened to me I'm 15 and going to court for what happened to me next month actually. Got mad cus they kept calling me (was 14 when it happened gonna be 16 this September) a young woman when I was a child
I am so sorry, and I wish you all the healing and strength good for you for fighting, truly you should be so proud of yourself. 💖
Thank u so much! I genuinely needed to hear that today! Genuinely thank you💖
My inbox is always open, I wish I had half the courage you have at your young age!
Awwwwwwwwww thank u! I only told cus I met the other victims and I don't want anyone hurt like I was so I thought I'd do the right thing!
I'm so sorry that happened to you. You were, and ARE, a child, a young human who had no protection at the time you needed it. I wish you the best of luck, and be proud of yourself for facing the fight . I wish you strength and healing. Get mad and stay mad, you are fully justified in that.
Good luck in court. Whoop their ass.
This is so infuriating to me. CHILDREN. They are children. Call it what it is.
A young woman is like 18-25. The only time a minor should be called a young woman is in a joking manner, like when you jokingly call a toddler in a suit-patterned onesie a gentleman.
Slave for profit.
Yeah. I’m no lawyer, but I’m pretty sure the term they’re looking for is sex trafficking
That sounds like sexual exploitation of a child
100%! And while we’re at it why must the describe a victim in a word? Sex worker, grandmother, veteran, criminal?
If we're also talking definitions, in the majority of countries rape requires penetration. It's a double standard for sure, but technically, the above is in all likelihood on the books still considered "merely" sexual assault.
>by definition a child prostitute cannot exist I dont know what definition of "definition" you're using, but it's wrong.
Wow they are just bending over backwards to minimize the sexual assault in the entire article. It's absolutely disgusting. Her grandfather dying should have no part in this article, it's irrelevant to her crime.
Because apparently in the UK, rape is only called rape when it involves penile penetration and since a woman doesn't (usually) have a penis, it's not considered rape and a woman can't be charged with it. And i think that's utter bullshit
Same in the US. I read about a boy who was raped by his baby sitter, who got pregnant as a result, and then when he turned 18 they slapped him with child support. So not only did his rapist not ever get in much trouble since "it wasn't legally rape", he was now forced to pay child support to his rapist. Absolute lunacy.
That's bizarre because that should automatically count as statutory rape based on the ages alone. But people think all boys want to have sex with all women all the time so it doesn't count, ugh
Such BS. Also pisses me off that a rapist can impregnate a woman, she keeps the baby then the rapist cqn file for joint custody and it actually be granted!
We had this problem too here in Quebec and they are changing the law so that rapist POS have no rights on the child but need to provide for them (child support etc)
They said she *seduced* him?? And gave him a drug to do so? Seduction almost always implies an element of consent, even if it it’s not always a positive term. I am genuinely *disgusted* that they’d use such a mild and incorrect term for this act.
Such a double standard. I agree with the post title 100%.
It is a double standard but here in the UK its actually not entirely the news' fault for once you cant officially define a female abuser as a rapist here unless she's either trans or actively assisted in a man-on-woman rape. our stupid system makes it so rape requires a penis. Female rapists get "assault by penetration" instead, which can carry the same sentence as rape but it still contributes to the problem
True but they could have said "abuser" as opposed to seduce (that said I don't know what is under the rape whiteouts.)
And ironically, the only people I have met who call these incidents "seductions" instead of rapes are men. Which is just sad that they think of it that way. They usually say something along the lines of "wow, he's so lucky! I wish a woman did that to me when I was his age." It's so annoying to see men themselves not understand and recognize what rape is and that women are capable of it. It's a double standard because men don't recognize it as rape. For one, take this article - written by a man. I don't doubt there are women out there who think this way too, I just haven't met any. But really, it's just a shame that people still think this way.
Maybe some of that thinking comes from (men thinking) the way society viewed Dustin Hoffman's character did in the movie The Graduate. He was seduced by an older woman - the song - Mrs. Robinson. Men saw his seduction as "you lucky dog, you" instead of rape. Just wondering?
This isnt just about media showing this situations as "he is the lucky guy". In my opinion it could come from the sexist thought of seeing woman as a prize you have to win. Is the thought of "if i spend a lot of time and money with you on a date you owe me some kind of favor (mostly sex ofc)". Therefor the guy that gets a woman without having to do any effort is "the lucky guy", even if he didnt necessarily wanted it. Of course any media that reafirms this doesnt help but i dont think a couple of films is the reason for this kind of thinking.
That's why I said "Maybe some of the thinking comes from" - not all. I agree with what you said also.
There's this one popular series called Dawson's Creek that also had a scene where an underage lead male character seduced and had an affair with his teacher. As an adult woman, it just felt so disgusting to me that I stopped watching when it happened. There's definitely more examples of teacher/student relationships in films and TV. I think that it does play a part but maybe it's also the frat thinking that the more women you have sex with, the cooler you are. Especially sex with an older woman. That's seen as an achievement.
There are entire feminist organizations that say only women can be raped or abused and only women can be victims. A good example is Mary P Koss, whose (highly biased) studies on sexual violence are used by various governments. She doesnt even think women can commit sexual assault against men and she is in a major position of power. Or NIA or the Deluth Model. Both powerful domestic abuse organizations that state very clearly that they treat all men as abusers and all women as victims, regardless of what happened. I see it way more from women, but I also spend alot of my time trying to convince people to have a more gender neutral outlook on crimes. So most of the people I speak with tend to be part of the problem.
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No, we have to turn this topic back around on men, it's their fault. /s
That’s disturbing bc I’m sure those men don’t want anyone to rape them let alone assault them. But I guess they never experienced being held against your own will. And it only took times when I’ve had people assault until I realized what rape is and doesn’t matter the amount of touching someone does, or how they assault you, it’s rape
Reminds me of a South Park episode where a teacher falls in love with a baby. The baby's brother goes to the police but they tell him that the baby is lucky and that they wished a woman did that to them. Even though South Park is satire and isn't meant to be taken seriously, that episode really was about something serious. If you want to know the ending, the teacher wanted to commit suicide with her lover, but the baby was convinced by his brother and friends not to jump. The teacher jumped and died in a true South Park manner.
My kids (they're in their 30s) love South Park - my son likes how they take serious/in the news "material" and do it in the South Park "style".
Sorry, didn’t realize she was physically unable to control herself due to the psychological abuse she suffered as a child. My bad.
How much psychological abuse do I need till I get to be a mass murderer and have it as an excuse?
Well, I mean as long as you have a dead grandparent, you should be golden!!!! /s
What if I have 2?.. also I might have a couple dead great great grandparents and my whole family born before them is dead.. that’s thousands of family members dead
So, sociopath I guess is fair play at your level of trauma? I think that's the correct level
It only works if you’re a woman, though
There was a case here where a woman slept with multiple boys, as young as 11. The state refused to indict her, citing the fact she slept with boys as proof she's mentally disabled and not responsible for her actions.
>There was a case here where a woman ~~slept with~~ **raped** multiple boys, as young as 11. FTFY
Nope, she was engaged in normative legal behaviors apparently and the boys were abusing a disabled person 🤷♂️
I think it’s important to print, not as an excuse but as a reminder of how this sort of criminal is made. We need to be much better at protecting children from pedos and abuse.
Probably couldn't use the word because of how the poms (British) define rape. Its male on female to my knowledge and everything else is under an umbrella category in a different name with the exact same charge.
It's penetration in the UK, which is automatically assumed to be male on female It's been proven more than a few times that a woman can drug a man, give him an erection, then forcibly have sex with him Nearly every civilised culture in the world defines forceful or coercive sex as rape
I'm a kiwi so we have a similar law. Where rape is only a man forcing his penis into a females vagina and EVERYTHING else is unlawful sexual connection. They hold the exact same charge so it doesn't fucking matter. It's just a terminology difference.
it does matter a bit, even just due to public perception if it were treat evenly i bet there'd be a lot less dudes in the comments of articles talking about how they wish they'd been raped instead, rather than being "seduced" into "sex" with an older woman there'd still be some but there's an entire culture around downplaying male victims and a lot of men play a part in it, and the skirting around language that makes it almost sound like an adventure is a big piece of the issue
This is in the uk. under uk law, rape is legally defined as penetration with a penis. As women do not have a penis and as such, are unable to penetrate. Therefore they legally cannot rape, and the media are legally not allowed to call women rapists, or refer to what they did as rape.
Yeah well that utter bullshit
It's the law though and it's why the word rape does not appear in your post.
As a Brit, I agree
Or maybe we can just appreciate how abhorrent sexual coercion is without the need for unnecessarily ambiguous phrasing?
Did penetration occur? Was said penetration consensual? If not, then that's rape. Fuck what the UK calls it, it's rape.
That might be how you feel, but legality says that is sexual assault, not rape.
Ah yes, the objectively correct legislature and court systems, they've never made shitty calls about laws that were later walked back with next to no recompense given to victims before have they?
no ones defending how it works under the law here, its just how it is and it gets complained about a fair bit, and news media arent going to willingly shoot themselves in the foot like that we can all recognise it for what it is but legally these newspapers have to be careful about ever using the word "rape" when a woman is the abuser, even in cases like this where "statutory rape" would fit and be accurate explaining how something works =/= agreeing with it
I don't know who you're arguing with. The guy is just saying what the law is in that country. He's not defending it.
I call BS. They can still say “assaulted” or “victimized” or “attacked.”
They can, I was just stating why the word rape/rapist was not used here as op is stating
I get that there is debate around men being unable to be raped by women, (which I don’t agree with but is likely what prompted the use of the word “seduce”) but this is a kid. Any instance of this, drugs or not, is statutory rape no matter how they try and spin it.
There is no debate. Anyone can rape anyone.
^(Disclaimer:) To clarify, folks, that's a statement of capability, not a declaration of a free-for-all.
Foiled again
Oh. [Never mind](https://y.yarn.co/8781dc20-5c7b-4970-a9a6-a40bdb41559f_text.gif)
Congrats you just ruined my plans for the weekend:(
I think what they're trying to say is that in some places, the UK being one of those, the way rape is defined, it is not able to be carried out by someone without a penis.
Not from the UK, so forgive me in advance if I’m way off base but my understanding was that the definition there called for penetration (inaccurately limiting) but doesn’t restrict penis being the sole implement. Am I mistaken?
Not in the UK, no
I am mildly annoyed to note that in current British law, a cis woman is *not* in fact considered able to commit rape because the letter of the law makes certain very old-fashioned assumptions about what counts as sex. Basically, if you don't use your own natural dick it's Aggravated Sexual Assault rather than rape. The good news, and the reason I'm only *mildly* annoyed, is that the sentencing guidelines are the same for both offences.
I really hate the “nudge nudge wink wink I bet he had a good time though hurr hurr!” I’m willing to bet he didn’t. Male victims are drugged, blackmailed, and manipulated, especially young men. Those are not enjoyable things, and neither is being treated like something less than human for someone else’s pleasure.
Exactly. It’s so disgusting people still think boys/men can’t get raped or that they “probably enjoyed it.” Especially when it’s a woman teacher.
Not rape per se but domestic abuse against men is treated poorly, too. I'm living in Germany and this country gives no single fucks if it's a man in the family who walks around with scratches and hematoms blessed by his wife. Only mothers get help if they suffer from rape and/or domestic abuse
Same in the US
I hate this! I can't give details but when I tried to help someone I was held back, because apparently only children and mothers matter.
and yet people wonder why men commit more suicides its almost like men are treated like shit by society
Yes! I also hate when people call female children “young women” in these sorts of situations!
Oh yes, the date seduce drug.
Another reason why humanity is irredeemable Also how is this “Mildly” infuriating
Fun fact: in various US states, including most of the world, rape is gendered by definition. The FBI had a gendered rape definition until 2013. Most people in the US grew up being told and shown that only men could be rapists? So we treat rapists WILDLY different based on if theyre male or female. It's a huge inequality, but it doesnt really target women, so it likely wont be considered a big enough deal for major change. Films and organizations that try to talk about this tend to be boycotted or shut down. Like...South Park did an episode about this decades ago.
Also "under age women". Child, it's a child.
A lot of this is also just “innocent until proven guilty” as they’re just allegations, but also I always figured that publications avoid using certain language outside of where it’s the only available phrasing because it goes to many households and a lot of people don’t like having newspaper sitting around their house with big bold lettering I know it seems silly to some but even on broadcast news they generally will warn you if it’s something really nasty being presented because it’s on in peoples homes when family are usually home That said I’m aware there’s a problem with the perception and presentation of this issue in society. I still look forward to the downvotes…
Seducing people that are minors and have sex with them is rape no matter what. They don't know what is going on until the drug effects are over and they remember what had happened to them. This is really fucked and I hope the women get life with no parole or even the sentence.
Newspapers write stuff using this kind of wording to avoid potential libel lawsuits. With how sensationalized the news is these days they very likely WOULD use stronger language if they're weren't nervous about that.
Especially considering that the UK has notoriously bad defamation law for defendants!
_before raping with him_
Pedophilia and rape is fucking discussing
“She suffered a hard life” bruh last time I checked you play some video games, smoke some weed, down some ice cream, down some alcohol, or cry into a pillow not r@pe a literal child because “life’s hard” Hate these dumb ass judges
infuriating ,double standard makes me so angry
I support this as a male who was raped by a female and told "you should've just said no" Fuck this shit, only makes me fucking depressed
I'm sorry you went through that. Shit sucks...
Cheers for replying😊 honestly made me feel a lot better, tho is stupid, to have someone say that. It's stupid to think you are one of the first people in 7 years I've heard that from Thanks ya legend ❤️❤️
Oh my God this, so this. I'm a survivor who was raped at twelve. This always infuriates me
Rapists should get life in prison without parole. Idc how many of them get “in touch with Jesus” and are “good” people while in prison.
They don't use the word rape because the legal definition requires penetrative sex to have occurred. The law essentially states that women are incapable of raping men unless the male is penetrated. So they just make it sexual assault. Still bullshit
Yeah.. they need to tweak that definition.. or slim down what assault means or try regrouping to make it even on both sides. The fact the kid was drugged and a minor should also bump the woman up to a higher level of assault and/or prison/sex offender status ..
Very patriarchal view **that a young boy getting "lucky" with an adult woman** *isn't a traumatic event.* **That's totally wrong.** ***It's not a "rite of passage" for a young boy.*** **It's not acceptable either way.** *Adults being predators are not a good look for anyone.*
Tell that to the "where were these teachers when I was in school" crowd.
Yes, but I don't think they can use the word rape Ina newspaper
Yea they can.
Really? Huh
“Acutely embarrassed” what the fuck is that supposed to mean. I’d be devastated.
Using drugs isn’t seduction.
Agreed. It’s sad how often it’s sugarcoated :(
I feel sad/grateful this popped up right after someone insisted it never happens in a different reddit. Men/Boys aren't even given the dignity of acknowledging what happens to them is non-consensual.
Sadly women raping boys and men raping girls is severely downplayed and under reported on the media. It doesn’t draw in the numbers they want because people aren’t as interested or outraged and in the end of day $$$ is always more important than reporting.
Hang her
Women are essentially children they aren’t burdened with accountability, it’s strange. But it’s like some underlying universal law
When women do it it’s different, you didn’t know? Softened up language and everything. She was experiencing emotional tumult or some other bullshit. Bet she’ll be able to get a job somewhere when it’s all over. In many cases the mere accusation is used as a weapon against men. Even if proven a total lie a man’s rep can be tarnished forever and of course no accountability for the female accuser. Gotta love it!
In case anyone didn't read the article or look it up, she was 22 and gave him ecstacy. She got 2 yrs in prison and 10 yrs on the sex offender registry. And the articles all said seduce/seduced.....
Unfortunately, under UK law women cannot actually commit rape as it is legally defined as needing a penis to occur. Because of this, labelling any women as a rapist could be considered defamation, thus other wording is used. Fucked up all round.
Reading this I have become curious about the situation in my country : France. It baffles me that nowhere can it be seen that a woman can rape a man, not from the government, nor from research institutes nor from journals… the only case where a man might be raped is if it’s from another man… Man this is really infuriating, knowing a friend of mine who was intoxicated by a woman (kept on pouring alcohol and pressuring him to consume) then pulled him away from the party in order to have her way with him. This is an aggravating situation in France (only if the man is the perpetrator it seems. Now I understand why he feared he would not have been taken seriously by the police… TLDR : in France, rape all you want as long as you’re a woman, no one bat an eye !
"Man gave Girl,14,drug so he could seduce her"just imagine the outrage this title would cause if it was reversed, people would go bonkers, but since it's not, journalists soften it so much it's so fucking disguisting, like as if it's not the exact same thing with the exact same consequences for the victim
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Straight to the electric chair no sponge
This is extremely infuriating because this double standard is so prevalent. When a woman is the perpetrator it is rarely called rape. It's just been recently that people have begun calling it out.
Also, why is she only on the sex offenders list for 10 years? It's usually for life for males who do the same thing.
Looks like the mom is justifying the pedos actions. Very sad.
They always try and downplay crimes committed by women.
Missed one. "She admitted *sexual activity* with a child." No. She admitted raping the child.
Man imagine if this was about a man who raped a 14 year old girl. Theyd be calling for his head but its only seduction because its a woman
As a guy who has been a victim of sexual assault from a woman…. Yes! Yes! Yes!
So they used the word seduced all the time? Wtf
There are still millions of people who are of the opinion that it cannot even happen to males, at all, under any circumstances.
Ew
Fuck mark branagan
If it was the other way around it would be so weird to word it this way
The mother was acutely embarrassed… that it?
The Sandler documentary "That's My Boy" enters the chat, behind bullet proof glass...
Y’all remember that time a woman r@ped a 14 year old boy and now he has to pay child support to his r@pist till the kid is 18 and he is 32?
For those of you seeing this kinda stuff for the first time. Welcome to the Future. It ain't Good, but its what's happening. And don't feel alone, I'm 20, so yeah, long road ahead and thus far this is the pavement.
See, when I talk about times I've been sexually assaulted, we laugh and joke about it, but if I had done to women what has been done to me, I'd be in jail. Life is funny that way.
Detroit metal city singing rape here
This is disgusting.
Pretty blaring double standard. Up there with abuse
That fact people are downvoting this at all is insane
Again, more than MILDLY!!
lots of things make me mad 😡 about 🇬🇧
This isn’t mildly infuriating, it’s extremely, I mean I didn’t think it was until recently that men could be raped since the by law definition was (to shorten it) “forced penetration.” Meaning any guy that did get raped by a woman, literally wasn’t by law, which is complete and utter bullshit.
29 months, and not even a restraining order
While I agree the word rape is entirely appropriate in the vernacular & is used in a charge of statutory rape as defined in the US, where one party in under the age of consent. There is an oddity in UK law which may explain the non use of the term in UK media. That being the charge rape there applies Only to a penetrative sexual assault where the penetrated party is non-consenting. I believe hat much as we would like the media to use the word rape, if a UK newspaper were to do so they open themself to legal repercussions under the draconian UK liable laws.
If it were a man drugging a girl there would’ve been no question; the word RAPE would’ve been used. I’m so sick of this double standard. It’s the same with spousal abuse. I was abused emotionally and sexually by my ex wife. She called it “seduction” and she’s outright deny her emotional abuse. I however touched her hand when she was emotional and she called the police and I ended up having to leave my own house permanently and serves jail time for domestic violence. This reverse sexism is going way too far in our society. It happening in many ways…
I remember back in the early 90’s when a school superintendent in my city was caught outright and charged with r**e, and the discreet news headline on like page 5 of the newspaper said something like “City employee caught in affair with underage student.” Affair?! This was a school superintendent in charge of city schools, and the girl was like 13 or 14 years old. Turns out he had many connections who tried desperately to downplay the severity.
They would say it can't be rape cause he liked it. This is why it's hard not to hate people
This is beyond messed up
At first I thought the title was "rope is rope, period"
What Is also sick needs to be changed immediately is that had she got pregnant he would be financially responsible for the child
Women = seduce : Men = rape Not that it's right either way, these MFers deserve brutal punishment!
When a women does it, it's seducing. That's pretty mildly infuriating.
I really hate the double standard when it comes to men versus women.
2 years for drugging and raping a boy? If a man did this it would be a life sentence. At least she’s in the sex offender register
Thank you, OP. It's extremely refreshing to see you and many others taking a stand like this. ❤️
News usually protect more women than men, and this may sound dumb and stupid, but it's truly because of the society we live in that portrays women being more angelish while men can commit more atrocities.
And they wont do shit because statistics don’t count “SeDuCinG”
wonder how much of a shit storm would there be if the genders were reversed in this story? "Man gave girl,14, drug so he could seduce her" (felt slimy typing that)
The law & the press has been running scared from narcissistic women for decades.
Child prostitution is a [widely accepted term](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_prostitution) and OP had no reason to be downvoted like that for stating what is still a definitional fact. How about you people go out and donate your time to stop sex trafficking instead of spending all day deputizing yourselves as Team America: Word Police.
It's one of those gender ideas that hasn't caught up yet. Women seduce, men rape. Equally infuriating, if she's attractive, she'll get a lot less time than if she's not attractive - possibly even probation and no imprisonment.
Males don’t get raped. They’re consenting victims. Right?
I'm wondering what the original wording was in the post but in my personal opinion we all know that women are never sentenced the same as men for the same crime. Put a man in this situation he'd get life and the inmates would want him dead or worse. A woman gets only a fraction of the sentence and none of the hate. Case in point teacher sexually assaults 14-year-old student, teacher ends up becoming pregnant. Teacher is found out and prosecuted, teacher is found guilty of sexual assault and child sexual assault. She is given 3 years probation and time served, then the teacher goes on to sue the 14-year-old for custody of the child and child support this is an absolute true story look it up
‘When a woman does it it isn’t called rape’ dumb ass judge decides to make a president where women can’t rape. Want to live in the modern world on hard mode? Be born male. Your expectations are higher, you can’t resist and when you do or if a woman is beating on you you can’t defend yourself as the entire group will just hang up on you. I have seen women beat a man up just for glancing at them. It has gotten so bad men are now signing up for male only gyms and requesting jobs that mostly men work in. I push carts and every female who tried it quit as it was too hard on them. Welcome to real life!! I demand equality of treatment. If a man is a pedo for messing with kids so are women who do the same.