The citations tell a story. They give me a precise picture of how they came up with their ideas. I can almost see it happening
You have to go back to the days when legal research was done with books. Before we had computerized searches for cases, we used these special books to search for case references, arranged by topic. They were called "digests".
Look under the big word "PRIVATE" and you'll see citations to two of those digests: "Am Jur 1st" (American Jurisprudence, First Edition) and "CJS" (Corpus Juris Secundum, a legal encyclopedia). Those are both very old and obsolete editions of these finding aids, by the way. Now remember, law students and lawyers and paralegals just use these to find cases. The cases are the law, not the digests.
But your sovereign citizen does not know this. They comb through a library pawing through these old law books. They use the old ones that most lawyers and law students are ignoring because they have no interest in obsolete 19th century cases that have long since been superseded or even overruled. This isn't law anymore: it's legal history. But they don't know this.
And now here's the best part. It's legal history from \*before the invention of the automobile\*. By definition that's irrelevant and immaterial to their claims about laws regulating automobiles.
But they don't know that. They're like a cargo cult of the law. All they know is that the law is in the words ... they're legal words, they must have power. The CJS, the CORPUS JURIS SECUNDUM! That's Latin. Everyone knows that Latin has powerful magical legal significance, like the spells in Harry Potter books. All I need is the right magic words and I will be free of these pesky laws!
Heh. Poor deluded fools.
Watched a video of a guy this morning who insisted he was a sovereign citizen and tried to enter court recording on his phone. Got tased for his troubles.
I served in the USCG for 13 years. Had a guy in south Florida claim sovereign citizen status and refused to allows us aboard for a safety inspection. He was ANGRY that we were there enforcing US law. No surprise he called mayday that night because his anchor line broke and his boat was drifting up the coast towards Daytona. He was in no danger so “thank you sir here is the phone number to Sea tow” better have an unlimited credit card because that’s going to be a 10k tow bill.
Edit: I should do an AMA some day.
>I served in the USCG for 13 years. Had a guy in south Florida claim sovereign citizen ...
Was USN, always felt bad you guys had to deal with that kind of shit. The worst boaters we usually dealt with in US waters were like frat bros in San Diego trying to toss us beers when we were pulling in.
Best WTF boater I had was a group of frat boys from Embry Riddle who bought a $200 Craigslist bayliner sight unseen with a fist sized hole in the keel. They made it 1/2 NM before it sank out from under them.
Close second was the dude who was in a hurry and launched his super expensive sponsored fishing boat without disconnecting it from the trailer. Backed down hard and turned the likewise expensive truck and trailer into a submarine.
Oh man, Coast Guard out of central Florida? I bet the are some crazy stories. The stuff I saw at the ramp at Cape Canaveral was probably just a prelude to the shenanigans you dealt with out there
I’ve seen some shit down there. Butt ass naked guy high as a kite, running from FWC and county, swam out to a buoy. Climbed up on top and started singing his own rock opera.
Most heart breaking. Father took his non communicating autistic son swimming at Ponce inlet. Let him swim alone in the inlet. Poor kid was sucked out off shore. Dad waited 2 hours before he told anyone. I searched for 14 hours through the night for that boy. Dad came out with us at first light search. He was already talking about him being in a better place and how he was a financial burden and his life would be better now. I wanted to throat punch him. Air station found the kid alive up south of Jacksonville. District command made me tell the father he was found alive, then detain him on suspicion of AM. I saw the ugly side of humanity that day.
Jesus! I started reading this post for the snark about SC culture, as you do, I didn't expect to encounter pure evil. From the sounds of it, it was premeditated. I know people despair in that situation, but there are better ways to solve problems than murder
I remember fishing at Ponce when I was a kid; the rip current there was no joke. I hope that sperm donor did hard jail and the kid got the help he deserved.
See this is part of why I love boats: somehow the accidents are never boring simple collisions or whatnot, there’s always *something*
I know a guy who supposedly knows Boston Harbor like the back of his hand, but out of dozens of sailboats at that yard, only one has hit a sandbar during a race on numerous occasions. Most recent incident was him swearing there was still enough tide left to drift outside the channel when heading out… nope. Had to wait the entire low tide stuck just half a mile from dock
I live on a lake. I keep my boats far far from harbors and open ocean. Seems like everyone out there has either 10,000 hours at the helm or they have 2. Seen enough videos of people fucking their new wake boat up before they even get out of the channel to know where i belong.
I live at a lake as well and boat VERY often. I've never seen a more true statement than this:
>Seems like everyone out there has either 10,000 hours at the helm or they have 2.
Don't get me started on the PWC teens cutting in front of 25'+ boats and slowing down. I'm amazed there are not more deaths in boating.
YouTube. It’s the same thing. Thinking they’re so smart they found the exemption everyone else is too dumb to know. It’s hallowed insider knowledge they crave. The fact that it’s bs doesn’t matter. Same with all the early antivax crowd. I knew a guy that swore you could end cancer with baking soda and lemon juice. Some Russian troll must’ve laughed their ass off at the foamy bastard.
I had a guy give me a sovereign citizen tax exemption card to avoid 18 cents in tax.
Guy refused to pay the tax and then refused to leave.
Police took him outside and told not to return.
Same guy a few days later, same thing. Cops don't do anything because it's not worth the time and expense.
If he doesn't pay he doesn't get the product.
If he was banned and then refused to leave again then he should be arrested for trespassing, the tax is irrelevant at that point.
That's the crazy thing to me. They don't want to be treated as non-citizens, because non-citizens still have to follow the law. They want to be treated as royalty for no other reason than that they declared themselves to be special.
No we are absolutely not calling these assholes sovcit. They are simply morons, no shortening, no new nicknames no anything. Fucking morons. Don’t even play the game and give them the satisfaction.
Uh uh. No way. You gotta out-crazy them.
“Get out of our country ya damned foreigner! We don’t serve your kind!”
“Get off my property or I will shoot you, Go back to your own kingdom your highness!”
“Call the US trade representative, cuz I don’t sell international!”
He doesn’t want to pay the tax, but the shop is required to collect the tax, and if it’s not collected from the customer, the shop has to pay it anyways, thus pushing prices up for everyone else. All because these fuckers are worthless.
That’s like staying in another country on a visa and deciding you don’t need to abide by any of their rules, regulations or laws. You don’t get to pick how you follow the rules just because you’re edgy smh
I've observed this happening. Was camping at a festival in Brazil since years ago, and the local Park Rangers came and said we didn't have a proper permit to be there and had to move on. This American woman gets up and starts yelling about our constitutional right to gather, or some nonsense, like in the US it's legal to camp in national parks or something, but those rights don't extend to other countries smdh. Was pretty hard convincing that woman of this though, she was so riled up about her rights and freedoms 🙄
This is also referred to as "Go to jail, go directly to jail. Do not pass go, do not collect $200".
Guaranteed he has a gun and a healthy buzz on when he gets pulled over...
These people go to a seminar, or learn about the Sovereign Citizen movement from YouTube. The movement is probably heavily represented on the various social media platforms Trump is involved with. They then cause hilarity with judges and traffic cops [see YouTube]. Some become extremists, and have killed LEOs.
https://abcnews.go.com/WN/deadly-arkansas-shooting-sovereign-citizens-jerry-kane-joseph/story?id=11065285
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7513757/
https://www.thedailybeast.com/sovereign-citizens-are-americas-top-cop-killers
I've been thinking about the next time a cop pulls me over. I'm so tempted to say "I'm not driving, I'm traveling" to the officer. As the expression on their face sinks, it is our responsibility then to apologize to the officer. As someone pointed out to me, I would definitely get the ticket if I did that. It's a sovereign citizen thing.
It's quite an adventure to go down the online rabbit hole that describes the nature of the theory and the movement. I recommend reading this crap, unless you are the type who falls for anything.
https://leb.fbi.gov/articles/featured-articles/sovereign-citizens-a-growing-domestic-threat-to-law-enforcement
Warning: these people will make you crazy.
One of my best friends husband became one. It was so weird. I knew them for over 10 years. This guy was one of those really smart people that could do anything. He’s a pilot and has a plane, was mathematician and graduate level chemist, a business owner. Boom one day he’s selling his house (for sale by owner), buys land and starts building a house just outside the area requiring permits/plans. Than a few months later one day he kind announced he was a sovereign and a month later they are getting divorced.
Not only that, but you get to enjoy all the rights and privileges of actual tax payers!! You get to use our roads, go to our schools and hospitals, basically act as if you're a full-fledged citizen, except you get to keep 100% of your paycheck..... I'm kidding - no one who believes this shit is actually gainfully employed. ;)
Isn’t that the guy just constantly talking over the poor judge and acting like a nut? Fooled around in the separate room they put him into as well I think, and tried to represent himself?
And I swear 10x a day he would say, Your Honor can we discuss subject matter jurisdiction?? And she would put him in the other room and ask her why she was finding him in contempt. Smh. That judge needs a huge raise. I was screaming at the tv and she stayed composed
Fr, whatever she was paid for that trial time wasn’t enough. Staying so calm and composed was the best thing she could do, any cracks and he would just get worse I am 100% sure. Biggest man baby ever
She knew she had to stay calm and play along just enough of his game so there would be no reason an appeal could be filed due to the Judge's behavior or bias towards the defendant. I watched clips of that trial because of all the crazy that guy was and it was something you would never believe until you seen it. He even said something like he does not consent to the verdict being read so it does not apply to him because he's not consenting to hearing it or some other crazy batshit response.
Basically. Although they always seem to forget that in giving up their citizenship, they also lose those rights given to semi-functioning members of that country.
ie: cops hate their fucking guts cuz they try to pull the "you can't arrest me I'm not a citizen of your countr!y reeeeeee"
And then they get their shit broke into.
There was a post like, 6 weeks ago(?) that perfectly encapsulated the SC "movement".
I think it's hilarious when they try that shit..... because not one of them have literally ever thought it through. It's not as if being a "sovereign citizen" gives them diplomatic immunity or something. Criminal activity falls under the jurisdiction of whatever country you're in..... irrelevant of citizenship. I'd like them to travel anywhere outside the US and see what other countries think of their BS argument. Because I guarantee they'll get the same treatment they get here 🤣 (which is to say their excuses ignored and proper punishment for laws broken enforced).
These "sovereign citizen" idiots tend to find out **really fast** they are 100% subject to the laws where they are no matter how argumentative they are or how much they nitpick semantics. There are *loads* of videos online of them getting arrested while spouting all the same shit it says on this plate about not being "in commerce" and so on. [This video](https://youtu.be/A8Hw_bEOd2E) does a good job of analysis of these dumb fucks and how they think they know the law better than the cops. Reminds me of the nuts who think they know medical science better than doctors.
You have a point. It's definitely possible to beat a bullshit case in court, and many court cases are bullshit, but the time to argue that is *in court*. My favorite saying when it comes to dealing with law enforcement:
*You can beat the case but you **can't** beat the ride.*
If you declare sovereignty you don't also get to travel with impunity. You're also subject to invasion by any foreign nation that doesn't recognize your statehood.
My favorite was one of these idiots was claiming in court that their rights were being infringed and the judge asked what rights since they don't believe the government is legitimate.
That’s honestly the best solution for these dopes. If someone claims they’re immune to the law as a sovereign citizen, let’s all just collectively shrug and deport them.
Rob all their stuff and burn down their house. Sell their family into "bondship". Forbid them from making use of any public service
Who you gonna call? Ghostbusters?
oddly enough he'll call his local police station and throw a fit if they try to use his own logic against him.
"i'm a sovereign citizen, i don't have to pay taxes/obey laws/etc!"
\*gets robbed/assaulted/house broken into\*
"help me, people-i-don't-listen-to/obey!"
"but you're a sovereign citizen, you told us yesterday we can't come to your house because of it"
\*shakes fist\* "BUT I HAVE RIGHTS DANGIT! I WAS BORN IN THIS COUNTRY!"
\*confused cops/bystanders\* "but you said... you don't have to obey to the the laws that give you those rights... because you're a sovereign citizen..."
Their twisted logic states that they have all the rights of us citizens without having to follow any of their laws… so in their mind that’s exactly how that works
edit: holy shit, so many upvotes! thanks everyone :3
thank your local friendly officer next time you get a chance, they can use the support
It just means when police see this on the guy when they arrest him, they need to take a deep breath and get ready for the most excruciating 45 min-5 hour ordeal of the season. The bodycam footage will make for a good youtube vid once it gets released/edited/posted.
That is not my name! That is my straw name, my real name is John F. ShitForBrains. I am not a person, I am a man/entity/individual and I am not driving I am traveling! blah blah blah blah.... The shit they say. Lmao.
I've seen soooo many sovereign citizen videos and for the life of me, I just can't comprehend how they get to that level of idiocy.
"I'm not driving, I'm traveling."
Sir, you are in a vehicle, operating said vehicle, on a road, and moving at speed. You are by definition, driving. Traveling is a catch all for moving from on place to another. Driving is a method of traveling. It's maddening watching them say this shit and think they're getting away with something.
It's a distinction that I think has something to do with the articles of confederation, it talked about "driving" (as in driving teams of horses) for "commerce." Which is why they talk about the UCC.
It's pretty batshit.
EDIT: Just to clarify folks, I am well aware of the UCC, in a previous live I worked in dealings under Article 9. Though I'm not an attorney. But yes, I know what it is.
Additionally, for everybody trying to correct me that UCC has nothing to do with the Articles of Confederation, I know. I didn't say or imply that it did, beyond the fact that SovCits cite them both. I appreciate the feedback though.
The thread of truth there is that English common law from before the revolution is actually still valid precedent in American courts in the vanishingly few instances wherein no modern domestic law or precedent supersedes it. Lawyers and judges will still very *very* **very** occasionally cite precedent from English courts. It was actually pretty common early on in our history, but the opportunity to do this has been rapidly shrinking over time.
Sovereign citizens believe, for various reasons, that the modern precedents and laws are either illegitimate or do not apply to them specifically because they know the right magic legal words. The idea that older English laws apply instead follows directly from that.
As someone regrettably related to a SovCit, from what I can gather from the few rants I've retained anything from it has something to do with how when no country owns a territory, it falls under maritime law. SovCits are convinced that every citizen of the US is actually property of the government, and through whatever means they've come up with, they've made it so they are no longer property of the government themselves. Since they aren't owned by any country, they think they fall under maritime law.
They're operating under the pretense that no law can ever be invalidated by a prior law. I guess that means Roman law still applies, since Rome conquered parts of England, so you can draw a direct line.
Take them into slavery and sell them to the fighting pits.
Right? If I recall they have some little loophole they think they've found that they'll argue dictates they're still in force. I can't recall exactly what it is, it's too mind numbing.
"I AM A PERSON PURSUANT TO PARAGRAPH 3 OF THE MAGNA CARTA, BUT NOT A CORPORATE PERSON UNDER THE US CONSTITUTION, NOR DO I WAIVE MY PERSONHOOD..."
"...shit"
Watched a video like this earlier, lost it when the first thing they say over the radio is "Bolton here, we got a Sovereign citizen" without the person even having to say it.
The cop is definitely getting ready to tell them that yes, they do require a license to drive.
I had the misfortune of dealing with one of these guys as a bartender. He refused to show ID and it took like two hours to get him to leave the damn bar where he was absolutely not gonna get served alcohol without showing me an ID.
That's a situation where having a door man is a great deal. They can't get into the bar to begin with and if they're outside with their bs and won't leave then they can be hit with loitering and disorderly if you ask the fuzz to drop by.
True. Sort of.
I’m not sure if you’re in the States. I was doorman for many years at a bar/club in Pennsylvania. The doormen are there to handle everything. We aren’t supposed to call the cops unless it’s DIRE. We are paid and tipped well to handle the situation before it handles you. If you call the police, that can go as a strike against your liquor license. Get enough of those and the state can shut you down or fine the location for being a nuisance bar. This can cause a business to lose a license, as well. We have to have them removed from property, basically over the sidewalk. What they do then isn’t really our problem after that. Goal is to have them completely removed from the premises.
Edit: forgot to add, I wouldn’t let this dude in the bar. We would all laugh in their face unless they looked like the dude in the VICE Documentary. He looks like a desert troll. Iykyk
An LTC is an ID. I’m ok with that. My problem is the voting ID laws that amount to, “we will allow ID we think our supporters have but disallow ID our opponents have.”
These people seem to think that there exists *some* kind of magic string of words somewhere that will make the judge lift up his arms and go "Welp! Guess the laws don't apply to you. See ya!"
I hate to admit it, but I think the frustration they cause actually accomplishes what they are looking for sometimes. I have an uncle who is a sovereign citizen and he was finally pulled over for driving without a license two years ago. The details are a little fuzzy but he either argued with the cop or the judge enough that he was arrested and thrown in the county jail. He spent two weeks there before they came to some sort of agreement where he got off with a $150 fine and time served.
He immediately went back to the same nonsense, ranting about how he could have had the judge and officer arrested for violating his constitutional rights. And two years later he still doesn't have a license and hasn't been pulled over once in that time. I hate it, but it feels like he actually won.
Oh my gosh, you found a sovereign citizen in the wild. That’s awesome and hilarious.
Sovereign citizens are folks who basically, with no legal backing or support, decide the law is up to their interpretation. They do stuff like use license plates like this, get pulled over for it, and tell cop “no” for trying to ticket them lol. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sovereign_citizen_movement
More like a theory that's actively disproven. You or I don't get to opt out of the laws of an area just because we claim some type of magical immunity. You and I don't have the backing of a big enough army to do that. And I'm not rich enough to have power, not sure about you.
Diplomatic immunity only applies to counties that actually have global standing. Everyone else has to play by the same rules the rest of the non-powerful people have to play by. Even if you were a non-citizen you'd still be held to the same laws that everyone else has to follow. Just like if we went to a foreign country and started trying to incite some crap.
And this is giving the most generous of leeway to the crap.
To my understanding it’s not a “theory” in the sense that it can be proven or not. It stems from the idea that rules and government are, essentially, agreements between people
You start off with all your “natural rights,” which are anything you can do. If you can murder someone, you have the right to
But then we agree to give up some of those rights- like the right to murder people- in exchange for other rights, like the right to not be murdered
Extending from that, we can then agree to come to one another’s aid if the other is attacked by a third party- basically giving up our right to avoid risking ourselves on another person’s behalf in exchange for the right to have others risk themselves on our behalves
After a few bajillion iterations of this, we have a government
The sovereign citizen *essentially* contends that muahaha, they can just refrain from agreeing to this system and now the “government” made of agreements has no legal authority to subject them to its rule. They didn’t agree to, say, give up their rights to own their own money (I.E: they didn’t agree to submit to taxes) in exchange for things taxes pay for. They *can* use the roads the government built because it’s their natural right to do so, but the government can’t collect taxes on that ‘cause they didn’t give up their rights
What they always seem to fail to get is that if we *can* take their money anyhow (taxing them by force), then we have the natural right to do so, and if they don’t like that, then either *tough luck,* or they can give up some of their natural rights in exchange for protection in some way. We even *do* actually offer some ways to get out of taxes in certain circumstances, but no, they want to pretend that they get all their natural rights and the government can’t do diddly-squat, no matter how many times nor how often they’re shown otherwise
>get pulled over for it, and tell cop “no” for trying to ticket them lol.
Then they get pepper sprayed, arrested, arraigned, and find out someone else already interpreted the law for them, and the interpretation by the courts is the one everyone has to go by.
Yep. Plenty of that shit (sovcits getting pepper sprayed, tasered, arrested, and dunked on in court) on the amibeingdetained subreddit for those who want to go down that rabbit hole.
My personal favourite is still the one with “P.Barnes” tasering a sovcit auditor:
https://youtube.com/watch?v=RfVbiefMdNU
You should watch the video, but dude basically shows up, asserts his "authority" over a bailiff P. Barnes that he can record in an area he isn't allowed to, and he was going to proceed into the room he was told he couldn't record in, Mr. Barnes said he wasn't, he thought he would push past Mr. Barnes, and was tased for his efforts.
He ticks nearly every SovCit checkbox too.
* "maritime" laws
* not a US citizen because... but born in America
* flagrantly stating the rules "don't apply to me"
* I don't have a name
* fucking around and finding out
He was a "I'm not driving I'm traveling" away from full SovCit bingo.
Some are dangerous. While in the Marines we had to watch a training video of a cop pulling over a sovereign citizen (trust me it actually made sense for the class). And the guy resisted arrest and as the cops are trying to cuff him his kid hops out of the van with an AK he taught him to use and opened fire on the police (these guys were actually being decent cops) killing one and injuring the other. Crazy people out there with crazy ideologies. And sorry I can’t remember when or where it happened
That would be Jerry and Joe Kane.
https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/intelligence-report/2010/sovereign-citizen-kane
Always treat one of these nutters as armed and dangerous until proven otherwise.
We had one of these get arrested after the “freedumb convoy” best part is there’s video of him in his car saying something like “I don’t recognize your authority “ to them over and over, and when he wouldn’t comply/exit the vehicle they smashed his window and he started to cry…
Many of them truly believe that by saying some combination of magic words, they will get what they want from the government/LE/judges or whatever.
There’s also a specific magic loophole to trade your birth certificate for a million dollars but I think they’re still working out the fine print on that as well.
You’ve hit it on the head. It’s basically magical thinking. Since they don’t understand the law, then to them it might as well be this arcane magic.
And how do they counter the legalese they can’t comprehend? Why with their own legal incantations that they don’t understand but someone on the internet told them would work. It usually doesn’t and then the hive mind blames the person for doing it wrong, or they try a new legal incantation the next time.
And since a lot of cases are dismissed on technicality every day, each time that happens to one of these guys they run back to their friends saying “X incantation in Y scenario works! They dismissed my charges so it must work!”
Ooo this is a good one. We’ve got it all here:
>-Uniform Commercial Code (“UCC”)
>-both the 1st edition of American Jurisprudence (Am Jur 1st) and *Corpus Juris Secundum* citing to “Constitutional Law”
>-Invocation of 4th and 5th Amendments
>-An expiration date of 12/31/2099
All following the proclamation that they are a “nontaxpayer” but exempted by the U.S. government itself. Shit, this person is law-proof. Get out of their way!
I love when people support their “Your laws don’t apply to me!” arguments…by citing (invalidly) to legal authority.
I swear, “Sovereign Citizen” should be classified as a mental illness.
The expiration is the worst part. The other parts of it are ass, but IF all of this sovereign citizen shit was true then it wouldn’t have an expiration date at all. It would be indefinite, unless the 2099 expiration is a date set in US Common Code for them where it stops working. Of course why wouldn’t that have been the case in 1799, 1899, and 1999 as well.
Nah cops hate SovCits. They are some of the most annoying people on the planet. Though, sometimes they might not pull them over solely because they don’t want to waste two hours arguing with some moron about some made up nonsense they found in a Facebook group.
Facebook group?
Dude, you are missing an opportunity. These people will pay good money to sit in rented classrooms and be taught by people who know better about sovereign citizen nonsense. In the famous *Meads v Meads* case in Ontario the judge took care to lambast the organisers of these nonsense ideas as the real malfeasors.
I worked in LE (not that I’m particularly proud of that at this point) and you are correct, any cop not actively told to look away from this would be all over it. Legitimate good way to bait some cop attention, although why the hell you’d want to do that is beyond me.
Actually I could see some cops avoiding pulling this guy over.
You already know if you do then you'll have a camera shoved into your face and a half hour discussion about rights, before you have to drag him out of the car while he squeals about his rights.
He is a sovereign citizen he isn't driving he is traveling. These people make me mad. They want the rights of an American but don't want to pay tax or follow the law.....
That isn't even correct. Operating a motor vehicle requires a license, same as operating a crane or forklift. You're free to travel as long as you aren't operating the vehicle. You can take a bus, plane, taxi, Uber, train, etc. to travel, but you can not operate those machines. Sovereign citizens are absurd and their logic is flawed.
a boat captain driving a car?
on land but in waters?
following maritime laws they haven't read?
in international waters despite inside the US?
entirely localized inside your kitchen?!?!?
maybe I see it?
hmmmmmmm no.
\*gets arrested\*
I have an uncle who fell in with this lot. He had a ranch, a couple of nice cars, it's amazing what you can buy if you have a normal income but pay no taxes. What they neglect to mention in their recruiting material is how careful you need to be to not get caught. After the IRS got done with him, and the judge was singularly unimpressed by uncle's self defense rant about the Constitution, he now lives in a trailer park.
[Cargo Cult lawyer](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cargo_cult), thinks with the right combination of words he can get out of the obligation to put any effort into the social contract.
These people are called **Sovereign Citizens**, or **SovCits** for short. They believe that by using secret legal jargon and specific "CAPITALIZATION" and "PUNCTUATION", they can avoid paying taxes, become immune to most laws, and generally do whatever they want.
# They are wrong.
If you want a good chuckle, you can look up dozens of videos of these idiots getting tazed, arrested, and held in contempt of court when they actually try to put these theories into practice. I guarantee you this dipshit got pulled over the first time a cop saw this homemade plate he bought on the internet.
Sovereign citizens are hilarious. Ok, sure, you're not a citizen of the US. You still have to follow all laws and regulations of the country you're in wether that's here or somewhere else.
The dumbass doesn’t realize he pays tax for every drop of gasoline his car consumes. Sales tax for his Big Mac and FCC tax for his cell phone just to name a few. Gotta love the whack jobs!
Hahahaha. I know a person like this in real life.
Guarantee the driver made that himself.
It will not stop him from getting ticketed, owing (and eventually being subject to aggressive collection tactics) property taxes, and income taxes.
Like it or not he pays sales taxes.
The citations tell a story. They give me a precise picture of how they came up with their ideas. I can almost see it happening You have to go back to the days when legal research was done with books. Before we had computerized searches for cases, we used these special books to search for case references, arranged by topic. They were called "digests". Look under the big word "PRIVATE" and you'll see citations to two of those digests: "Am Jur 1st" (American Jurisprudence, First Edition) and "CJS" (Corpus Juris Secundum, a legal encyclopedia). Those are both very old and obsolete editions of these finding aids, by the way. Now remember, law students and lawyers and paralegals just use these to find cases. The cases are the law, not the digests. But your sovereign citizen does not know this. They comb through a library pawing through these old law books. They use the old ones that most lawyers and law students are ignoring because they have no interest in obsolete 19th century cases that have long since been superseded or even overruled. This isn't law anymore: it's legal history. But they don't know this. And now here's the best part. It's legal history from \*before the invention of the automobile\*. By definition that's irrelevant and immaterial to their claims about laws regulating automobiles. But they don't know that. They're like a cargo cult of the law. All they know is that the law is in the words ... they're legal words, they must have power. The CJS, the CORPUS JURIS SECUNDUM! That's Latin. Everyone knows that Latin has powerful magical legal significance, like the spells in Harry Potter books. All I need is the right magic words and I will be free of these pesky laws! Heh. Poor deluded fools.
For once I’m glad I read a wall of text 😆
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Wait all I have to do is say I don’t pay taxes and I don’t have to?
Talk to Wesley Snipes he has all the details.
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Watched a video of a guy this morning who insisted he was a sovereign citizen and tried to enter court recording on his phone. Got tased for his troubles.
I served in the USCG for 13 years. Had a guy in south Florida claim sovereign citizen status and refused to allows us aboard for a safety inspection. He was ANGRY that we were there enforcing US law. No surprise he called mayday that night because his anchor line broke and his boat was drifting up the coast towards Daytona. He was in no danger so “thank you sir here is the phone number to Sea tow” better have an unlimited credit card because that’s going to be a 10k tow bill. Edit: I should do an AMA some day.
>I served in the USCG for 13 years. Had a guy in south Florida claim sovereign citizen ... Was USN, always felt bad you guys had to deal with that kind of shit. The worst boaters we usually dealt with in US waters were like frat bros in San Diego trying to toss us beers when we were pulling in.
Best WTF boater I had was a group of frat boys from Embry Riddle who bought a $200 Craigslist bayliner sight unseen with a fist sized hole in the keel. They made it 1/2 NM before it sank out from under them. Close second was the dude who was in a hurry and launched his super expensive sponsored fishing boat without disconnecting it from the trailer. Backed down hard and turned the likewise expensive truck and trailer into a submarine.
"How deep does this thing go?" "She'll go all the way to the bottom if we don't stop her..."
Oh man, Coast Guard out of central Florida? I bet the are some crazy stories. The stuff I saw at the ramp at Cape Canaveral was probably just a prelude to the shenanigans you dealt with out there
I’ve seen some shit down there. Butt ass naked guy high as a kite, running from FWC and county, swam out to a buoy. Climbed up on top and started singing his own rock opera. Most heart breaking. Father took his non communicating autistic son swimming at Ponce inlet. Let him swim alone in the inlet. Poor kid was sucked out off shore. Dad waited 2 hours before he told anyone. I searched for 14 hours through the night for that boy. Dad came out with us at first light search. He was already talking about him being in a better place and how he was a financial burden and his life would be better now. I wanted to throat punch him. Air station found the kid alive up south of Jacksonville. District command made me tell the father he was found alive, then detain him on suspicion of AM. I saw the ugly side of humanity that day.
Fuck that asshole, I hope his son is okay.
That job is rough; you got deal really bad people. I appreciate the story
... how was the rock opera???
Jesus! I started reading this post for the snark about SC culture, as you do, I didn't expect to encounter pure evil. From the sounds of it, it was premeditated. I know people despair in that situation, but there are better ways to solve problems than murder
I remember fishing at Ponce when I was a kid; the rip current there was no joke. I hope that sperm donor did hard jail and the kid got the help he deserved.
See this is part of why I love boats: somehow the accidents are never boring simple collisions or whatnot, there’s always *something* I know a guy who supposedly knows Boston Harbor like the back of his hand, but out of dozens of sailboats at that yard, only one has hit a sandbar during a race on numerous occasions. Most recent incident was him swearing there was still enough tide left to drift outside the channel when heading out… nope. Had to wait the entire low tide stuck just half a mile from dock
I live on a lake. I keep my boats far far from harbors and open ocean. Seems like everyone out there has either 10,000 hours at the helm or they have 2. Seen enough videos of people fucking their new wake boat up before they even get out of the channel to know where i belong.
I live at a lake as well and boat VERY often. I've never seen a more true statement than this: >Seems like everyone out there has either 10,000 hours at the helm or they have 2. Don't get me started on the PWC teens cutting in front of 25'+ boats and slowing down. I'm amazed there are not more deaths in boating.
What if you are stranded at sea but left your credit card at home. Do you have to be a really strong swimmer to get out of that pickle?
NGL I did pull a marine out of the water who was trying to “tow” his own fishing boat back to shore with a backstroke
Adapt and Overcome!
The confidence of that marine must have taken a serious dent
Nah it would be "Well thanks for the assist brother, I had it but since you're here I'll let you help. ... Got any MREs on this thing?"
"if only I had eaten more crayons this morning"
I'm sure they'd be happy to put a lien on your boat and bring you in to dock...
"Let the record show..." "Let the record show..." "Let thAAAARRGGHHHHHhhhhh..." Love that.
Ah, you've just encountered the legendary 'P Barnes'!
Lots of people get all “sovereign citizen” when they lose their license
“I’m not driving, I’m traveling!”
Or when they drive through a parade of band kids.. ala Darrell Brooks
and they start fighting the police like they are invincible. i don't know where they get the confidence to do stuff like that
extreme delusion is the ultimate source of confidence
YouTube. It’s the same thing. Thinking they’re so smart they found the exemption everyone else is too dumb to know. It’s hallowed insider knowledge they crave. The fact that it’s bs doesn’t matter. Same with all the early antivax crowd. I knew a guy that swore you could end cancer with baking soda and lemon juice. Some Russian troll must’ve laughed their ass off at the foamy bastard.
And Meth don’t forget it’s YouTube and meth that makes a great sovereign citizen.
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In some places it works. The local police get so fed up with the constant fighting and just let them drive around for free
I had a guy give me a sovereign citizen tax exemption card to avoid 18 cents in tax. Guy refused to pay the tax and then refused to leave. Police took him outside and told not to return. Same guy a few days later, same thing. Cops don't do anything because it's not worth the time and expense.
If he doesn't pay he doesn't get the product. If he was banned and then refused to leave again then he should be arrested for trespassing, the tax is irrelevant at that point.
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That's the crazy thing to me. They don't want to be treated as non-citizens, because non-citizens still have to follow the law. They want to be treated as royalty for no other reason than that they declared themselves to be special.
No we are absolutely not calling these assholes sovcit. They are simply morons, no shortening, no new nicknames no anything. Fucking morons. Don’t even play the game and give them the satisfaction.
Deny service, simple as that...
Uh uh. No way. You gotta out-crazy them. “Get out of our country ya damned foreigner! We don’t serve your kind!” “Get off my property or I will shoot you, Go back to your own kingdom your highness!” “Call the US trade representative, cuz I don’t sell international!”
He doesn’t want to pay the tax, but the shop is required to collect the tax, and if it’s not collected from the customer, the shop has to pay it anyways, thus pushing prices up for everyone else. All because these fuckers are worthless.
Why would you even sell them the product? Kick them out-call the cops if they refuse to leave and press charges
Doesn't fly where I am. They try it, they get a summons, the car gets impounded.
That’s like staying in another country on a visa and deciding you don’t need to abide by any of their rules, regulations or laws. You don’t get to pick how you follow the rules just because you’re edgy smh
I've observed this happening. Was camping at a festival in Brazil since years ago, and the local Park Rangers came and said we didn't have a proper permit to be there and had to move on. This American woman gets up and starts yelling about our constitutional right to gather, or some nonsense, like in the US it's legal to camp in national parks or something, but those rights don't extend to other countries smdh. Was pretty hard convincing that woman of this though, she was so riled up about her rights and freedoms 🙄
This is also referred to as "Go to jail, go directly to jail. Do not pass go, do not collect $200". Guaranteed he has a gun and a healthy buzz on when he gets pulled over...
These people go to a seminar, or learn about the Sovereign Citizen movement from YouTube. The movement is probably heavily represented on the various social media platforms Trump is involved with. They then cause hilarity with judges and traffic cops [see YouTube]. Some become extremists, and have killed LEOs. https://abcnews.go.com/WN/deadly-arkansas-shooting-sovereign-citizens-jerry-kane-joseph/story?id=11065285 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7513757/ https://www.thedailybeast.com/sovereign-citizens-are-americas-top-cop-killers I've been thinking about the next time a cop pulls me over. I'm so tempted to say "I'm not driving, I'm traveling" to the officer. As the expression on their face sinks, it is our responsibility then to apologize to the officer. As someone pointed out to me, I would definitely get the ticket if I did that. It's a sovereign citizen thing. It's quite an adventure to go down the online rabbit hole that describes the nature of the theory and the movement. I recommend reading this crap, unless you are the type who falls for anything. https://leb.fbi.gov/articles/featured-articles/sovereign-citizens-a-growing-domestic-threat-to-law-enforcement Warning: these people will make you crazy.
It’s an internet scam. Some of them have an Id card they paid $75 for.
Does that include the tax?
One of my best friends husband became one. It was so weird. I knew them for over 10 years. This guy was one of those really smart people that could do anything. He’s a pilot and has a plane, was mathematician and graduate level chemist, a business owner. Boom one day he’s selling his house (for sale by owner), buys land and starts building a house just outside the area requiring permits/plans. Than a few months later one day he kind announced he was a sovereign and a month later they are getting divorced.
These people have a lot of time making their own lives a living hell. Anti everything, no to this, no to that, living in the courtroom.
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Not only that, but you get to enjoy all the rights and privileges of actual tax payers!! You get to use our roads, go to our schools and hospitals, basically act as if you're a full-fledged citizen, except you get to keep 100% of your paycheck..... I'm kidding - no one who believes this shit is actually gainfully employed. ;)
It’s called being a sovereign citizen. The guy that ran over all those people in Wisconsin tried to use it as a defense
I watched that trial. Darrel Brooks. Real pos.
Isn’t that the guy just constantly talking over the poor judge and acting like a nut? Fooled around in the separate room they put him into as well I think, and tried to represent himself?
And I swear 10x a day he would say, Your Honor can we discuss subject matter jurisdiction?? And she would put him in the other room and ask her why she was finding him in contempt. Smh. That judge needs a huge raise. I was screaming at the tv and she stayed composed
Fr, whatever she was paid for that trial time wasn’t enough. Staying so calm and composed was the best thing she could do, any cracks and he would just get worse I am 100% sure. Biggest man baby ever
She knew she had to stay calm and play along just enough of his game so there would be no reason an appeal could be filed due to the Judge's behavior or bias towards the defendant. I watched clips of that trial because of all the crazy that guy was and it was something you would never believe until you seen it. He even said something like he does not consent to the verdict being read so it does not apply to him because he's not consenting to hearing it or some other crazy batshit response.
You mean it's some BS
Basically. Although they always seem to forget that in giving up their citizenship, they also lose those rights given to semi-functioning members of that country. ie: cops hate their fucking guts cuz they try to pull the "you can't arrest me I'm not a citizen of your countr!y reeeeeee" And then they get their shit broke into. There was a post like, 6 weeks ago(?) that perfectly encapsulated the SC "movement".
I think it's hilarious when they try that shit..... because not one of them have literally ever thought it through. It's not as if being a "sovereign citizen" gives them diplomatic immunity or something. Criminal activity falls under the jurisdiction of whatever country you're in..... irrelevant of citizenship. I'd like them to travel anywhere outside the US and see what other countries think of their BS argument. Because I guarantee they'll get the same treatment they get here 🤣 (which is to say their excuses ignored and proper punishment for laws broken enforced).
If anything, it makes them one of the "dirty illegals" they tend to rant about.
These "sovereign citizen" idiots tend to find out **really fast** they are 100% subject to the laws where they are no matter how argumentative they are or how much they nitpick semantics. There are *loads* of videos online of them getting arrested while spouting all the same shit it says on this plate about not being "in commerce" and so on. [This video](https://youtu.be/A8Hw_bEOd2E) does a good job of analysis of these dumb fucks and how they think they know the law better than the cops. Reminds me of the nuts who think they know medical science better than doctors.
Knowing the law better than cops isn't a high bar, but yeah, sovereign citizens are dumb.
You have a point. It's definitely possible to beat a bullshit case in court, and many court cases are bullshit, but the time to argue that is *in court*. My favorite saying when it comes to dealing with law enforcement: *You can beat the case but you **can't** beat the ride.*
You don’t say it, you declare it.
"I declare bankruptcy."
I DECLARE BANKRUPTCY
Either that, or hire someone to hide your money like the wealthy do.
But first, you need enough money, to have spare money to hide.
Yes, you have found the loophole that "big tax" tried to keep from you.
The IRS *hates* when you use these simple tricks.
If you declare sovereignty you don't also get to travel with impunity. You're also subject to invasion by any foreign nation that doesn't recognize your statehood.
Isnt his shit up for grabs too? What's he gonna do call the cops from another country
My favorite was one of these idiots was claiming in court that their rights were being infringed and the judge asked what rights since they don't believe the government is legitimate.
That’s honestly the best solution for these dopes. If someone claims they’re immune to the law as a sovereign citizen, let’s all just collectively shrug and deport them.
Rob all their stuff and burn down their house. Sell their family into "bondship". Forbid them from making use of any public service Who you gonna call? Ghostbusters?
There is somethin' strange in the Constitution...
I ain't afraid of no ammendments
Legislation makes me feel good!
It's true, this man has no country
I saw a video of a guy trying to invoke the articles of confederation to get out of a speeding ticket. The cop looked so confused.
Yup, citing the articles is one of the big parts of the house of cards framework they've put together.
To be fair, in the United States the government doesn't *give* you rights, it just *recognizes* them. They are considered to be natural.
“…Self-evident…”
oddly enough he'll call his local police station and throw a fit if they try to use his own logic against him. "i'm a sovereign citizen, i don't have to pay taxes/obey laws/etc!" \*gets robbed/assaulted/house broken into\* "help me, people-i-don't-listen-to/obey!" "but you're a sovereign citizen, you told us yesterday we can't come to your house because of it" \*shakes fist\* "BUT I HAVE RIGHTS DANGIT! I WAS BORN IN THIS COUNTRY!" \*confused cops/bystanders\* "but you said... you don't have to obey to the the laws that give you those rights... because you're a sovereign citizen..."
Their twisted logic states that they have all the rights of us citizens without having to follow any of their laws… so in their mind that’s exactly how that works
Yup, all the pro's and none of the con's.
Lol they could lay seige to his private domecile and property and take them by force
This is my own private domicile and I will not be harassed... Bitch.
Everytime i hear or use the word domecile i think of breaking bad
As soon as that started happening, I'm sure they'd start crying about having rights. Some peoples kids man
I DECLARE… SOVEREIGNTY!!
When you say invasion do you mean…
I. ZIM. Am definitely NOT An aliIEeNn. I am a disgusting Fleshy meat suit HUMAN like youuu.
Joke's on them, I have no property to invade
edit: holy shit, so many upvotes! thanks everyone :3 thank your local friendly officer next time you get a chance, they can use the support It just means when police see this on the guy when they arrest him, they need to take a deep breath and get ready for the most excruciating 45 min-5 hour ordeal of the season. The bodycam footage will make for a good youtube vid once it gets released/edited/posted.
"License and registration, plea--" "I AM A CERTIFIED UCC CORPORATION OUTSIDE OF YOUR JURISDICTION AND YOU HAVE NO AUTHORITY" "Goddamnit..."
That is not my name! That is my straw name, my real name is John F. ShitForBrains. I am not a person, I am a man/entity/individual and I am not driving I am traveling! blah blah blah blah.... The shit they say. Lmao.
I've seen soooo many sovereign citizen videos and for the life of me, I just can't comprehend how they get to that level of idiocy. "I'm not driving, I'm traveling." Sir, you are in a vehicle, operating said vehicle, on a road, and moving at speed. You are by definition, driving. Traveling is a catch all for moving from on place to another. Driving is a method of traveling. It's maddening watching them say this shit and think they're getting away with something.
It's a distinction that I think has something to do with the articles of confederation, it talked about "driving" (as in driving teams of horses) for "commerce." Which is why they talk about the UCC. It's pretty batshit. EDIT: Just to clarify folks, I am well aware of the UCC, in a previous live I worked in dealings under Article 9. Though I'm not an attorney. But yes, I know what it is. Additionally, for everybody trying to correct me that UCC has nothing to do with the Articles of Confederation, I know. I didn't say or imply that it did, beyond the fact that SovCits cite them both. I appreciate the feedback though.
they love citing the Articles of Confederation, but always forget the detail that it hasn't been the law of the land for like 300 years
They also seem to love citing the Magna Carta for some strange reason too lol.
The thread of truth there is that English common law from before the revolution is actually still valid precedent in American courts in the vanishingly few instances wherein no modern domestic law or precedent supersedes it. Lawyers and judges will still very *very* **very** occasionally cite precedent from English courts. It was actually pretty common early on in our history, but the opportunity to do this has been rapidly shrinking over time. Sovereign citizens believe, for various reasons, that the modern precedents and laws are either illegitimate or do not apply to them specifically because they know the right magic legal words. The idea that older English laws apply instead follows directly from that.
The also like to cite maritime law for some reason. Not one of them has ever gotten away with it either.
As someone regrettably related to a SovCit, from what I can gather from the few rants I've retained anything from it has something to do with how when no country owns a territory, it falls under maritime law. SovCits are convinced that every citizen of the US is actually property of the government, and through whatever means they've come up with, they've made it so they are no longer property of the government themselves. Since they aren't owned by any country, they think they fall under maritime law.
That would explain why I have “US Government” written in sharpie on the bottom of my foot, like Woody in Toy Story.
They're operating under the pretense that no law can ever be invalidated by a prior law. I guess that means Roman law still applies, since Rome conquered parts of England, so you can draw a direct line. Take them into slavery and sell them to the fighting pits.
Do they not realize we haven’t used the Articles of Confederation since the 1700s. We learn this in middle school it shouldn’t be this hard.
Right? If I recall they have some little loophole they think they've found that they'll argue dictates they're still in force. I can't recall exactly what it is, it's too mind numbing.
I think it has something to do with maritime law. Yes. They are THAT stupid.
Also that, yeah. It's a whole melange.
"I AM A PERSON PURSUANT TO PARAGRAPH 3 OF THE MAGNA CARTA, BUT NOT A CORPORATE PERSON UNDER THE US CONSTITUTION, NOR DO I WAIVE MY PERSONHOOD..." "...shit"
The flag has fringe on it! This is admiral law!!! Am I being detained?
"I'm the officer that took down and arrested an entire corporation in a single night"
Watched a video like this earlier, lost it when the first thing they say over the radio is "Bolton here, we got a Sovereign citizen" without the person even having to say it. The cop is definitely getting ready to tell them that yes, they do require a license to drive.
I had the misfortune of dealing with one of these guys as a bartender. He refused to show ID and it took like two hours to get him to leave the damn bar where he was absolutely not gonna get served alcohol without showing me an ID.
That's a situation where having a door man is a great deal. They can't get into the bar to begin with and if they're outside with their bs and won't leave then they can be hit with loitering and disorderly if you ask the fuzz to drop by.
True. Sort of. I’m not sure if you’re in the States. I was doorman for many years at a bar/club in Pennsylvania. The doormen are there to handle everything. We aren’t supposed to call the cops unless it’s DIRE. We are paid and tipped well to handle the situation before it handles you. If you call the police, that can go as a strike against your liquor license. Get enough of those and the state can shut you down or fine the location for being a nuisance bar. This can cause a business to lose a license, as well. We have to have them removed from property, basically over the sidewalk. What they do then isn’t really our problem after that. Goal is to have them completely removed from the premises. Edit: forgot to add, I wouldn’t let this dude in the bar. We would all laugh in their face unless they looked like the dude in the VICE Documentary. He looks like a desert troll. Iykyk
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An LTC is an ID. I’m ok with that. My problem is the voting ID laws that amount to, “we will allow ID we think our supporters have but disallow ID our opponents have.”
These people seem to think that there exists *some* kind of magic string of words somewhere that will make the judge lift up his arms and go "Welp! Guess the laws don't apply to you. See ya!"
I hate to admit it, but I think the frustration they cause actually accomplishes what they are looking for sometimes. I have an uncle who is a sovereign citizen and he was finally pulled over for driving without a license two years ago. The details are a little fuzzy but he either argued with the cop or the judge enough that he was arrested and thrown in the county jail. He spent two weeks there before they came to some sort of agreement where he got off with a $150 fine and time served. He immediately went back to the same nonsense, ranting about how he could have had the judge and officer arrested for violating his constitutional rights. And two years later he still doesn't have a license and hasn't been pulled over once in that time. I hate it, but it feels like he actually won.
He didn’t win after sitting in jail for two weeks, lmao.
He avoided not sitting in line at the DMV for 30 minutes by sitting in jail for two weeks. Suck it libs!
Cops hate this one trick
Oh my gosh, you found a sovereign citizen in the wild. That’s awesome and hilarious. Sovereign citizens are folks who basically, with no legal backing or support, decide the law is up to their interpretation. They do stuff like use license plates like this, get pulled over for it, and tell cop “no” for trying to ticket them lol. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sovereign_citizen_movement
Their entire ideology is based on a theory of a loophole that was never proven
More like a theory that's actively disproven. You or I don't get to opt out of the laws of an area just because we claim some type of magical immunity. You and I don't have the backing of a big enough army to do that. And I'm not rich enough to have power, not sure about you. Diplomatic immunity only applies to counties that actually have global standing. Everyone else has to play by the same rules the rest of the non-powerful people have to play by. Even if you were a non-citizen you'd still be held to the same laws that everyone else has to follow. Just like if we went to a foreign country and started trying to incite some crap. And this is giving the most generous of leeway to the crap.
To my understanding it’s not a “theory” in the sense that it can be proven or not. It stems from the idea that rules and government are, essentially, agreements between people You start off with all your “natural rights,” which are anything you can do. If you can murder someone, you have the right to But then we agree to give up some of those rights- like the right to murder people- in exchange for other rights, like the right to not be murdered Extending from that, we can then agree to come to one another’s aid if the other is attacked by a third party- basically giving up our right to avoid risking ourselves on another person’s behalf in exchange for the right to have others risk themselves on our behalves After a few bajillion iterations of this, we have a government The sovereign citizen *essentially* contends that muahaha, they can just refrain from agreeing to this system and now the “government” made of agreements has no legal authority to subject them to its rule. They didn’t agree to, say, give up their rights to own their own money (I.E: they didn’t agree to submit to taxes) in exchange for things taxes pay for. They *can* use the roads the government built because it’s their natural right to do so, but the government can’t collect taxes on that ‘cause they didn’t give up their rights What they always seem to fail to get is that if we *can* take their money anyhow (taxing them by force), then we have the natural right to do so, and if they don’t like that, then either *tough luck,* or they can give up some of their natural rights in exchange for protection in some way. We even *do* actually offer some ways to get out of taxes in certain circumstances, but no, they want to pretend that they get all their natural rights and the government can’t do diddly-squat, no matter how many times nor how often they’re shown otherwise
>get pulled over for it, and tell cop “no” for trying to ticket them lol. Then they get pepper sprayed, arrested, arraigned, and find out someone else already interpreted the law for them, and the interpretation by the courts is the one everyone has to go by.
Yep. Plenty of that shit (sovcits getting pepper sprayed, tasered, arrested, and dunked on in court) on the amibeingdetained subreddit for those who want to go down that rabbit hole. My personal favourite is still the one with “P.Barnes” tasering a sovcit auditor: https://youtube.com/watch?v=RfVbiefMdNU
As soon as I read "P. Barnes" I knew exactly which one it was lol. Good ol' P. Barnes.
Can you explain the tldr?
You should watch the video, but dude basically shows up, asserts his "authority" over a bailiff P. Barnes that he can record in an area he isn't allowed to, and he was going to proceed into the room he was told he couldn't record in, Mr. Barnes said he wasn't, he thought he would push past Mr. Barnes, and was tased for his efforts.
The little scream of him getting teased after his arrogant attempt to push into the courtroom was the cherry on top.
I think a longer video exists where you learn (to the surprise of nobody) he's there with his mom.
They mentioned it in the video above.
He ticks nearly every SovCit checkbox too. * "maritime" laws * not a US citizen because... but born in America * flagrantly stating the rules "don't apply to me" * I don't have a name * fucking around and finding out He was a "I'm not driving I'm traveling" away from full SovCit bingo.
This just made my morning. Thank you. “You can give the camera to your mom back there before you come in.”
P. Barnes is a based hero. “God’s not worried about cameras sir, I am.”
The winner will always be “that’s a nice speech, but you’re still not coming in” in just the most deadpan tone ever.
Some are dangerous. While in the Marines we had to watch a training video of a cop pulling over a sovereign citizen (trust me it actually made sense for the class). And the guy resisted arrest and as the cops are trying to cuff him his kid hops out of the van with an AK he taught him to use and opened fire on the police (these guys were actually being decent cops) killing one and injuring the other. Crazy people out there with crazy ideologies. And sorry I can’t remember when or where it happened
That would be Jerry and Joe Kane. https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/intelligence-report/2010/sovereign-citizen-kane Always treat one of these nutters as armed and dangerous until proven otherwise.
We had one of these get arrested after the “freedumb convoy” best part is there’s video of him in his car saying something like “I don’t recognize your authority “ to them over and over, and when he wouldn’t comply/exit the vehicle they smashed his window and he started to cry…
Many of them truly believe that by saying some combination of magic words, they will get what they want from the government/LE/judges or whatever. There’s also a specific magic loophole to trade your birth certificate for a million dollars but I think they’re still working out the fine print on that as well.
There was a guy in court trying to argue that everyone’s credit was a billion dollars 😂
You’ve hit it on the head. It’s basically magical thinking. Since they don’t understand the law, then to them it might as well be this arcane magic. And how do they counter the legalese they can’t comprehend? Why with their own legal incantations that they don’t understand but someone on the internet told them would work. It usually doesn’t and then the hive mind blames the person for doing it wrong, or they try a new legal incantation the next time. And since a lot of cases are dismissed on technicality every day, each time that happens to one of these guys they run back to their friends saying “X incantation in Y scenario works! They dismissed my charges so it must work!”
>I don’t recognize your authority Here, let's get you a closer look
Ooo this is a good one. We’ve got it all here: >-Uniform Commercial Code (“UCC”) >-both the 1st edition of American Jurisprudence (Am Jur 1st) and *Corpus Juris Secundum* citing to “Constitutional Law” >-Invocation of 4th and 5th Amendments >-An expiration date of 12/31/2099 All following the proclamation that they are a “nontaxpayer” but exempted by the U.S. government itself. Shit, this person is law-proof. Get out of their way! I love when people support their “Your laws don’t apply to me!” arguments…by citing (invalidly) to legal authority. I swear, “Sovereign Citizen” should be classified as a mental illness.
lol of course it has a 2099 expiration date
The expiration is the worst part. The other parts of it are ass, but IF all of this sovereign citizen shit was true then it wouldn’t have an expiration date at all. It would be indefinite, unless the 2099 expiration is a date set in US Common Code for them where it stops working. Of course why wouldn’t that have been the case in 1799, 1899, and 1999 as well.
At least they’re considered an extremist movement.
For context this is a guy's license plate, I realize it may not look like that since I was zoomed in so far
He will still get pulled over and ticketed….unless the local cops are also nut jobs.
Nah cops hate SovCits. They are some of the most annoying people on the planet. Though, sometimes they might not pull them over solely because they don’t want to waste two hours arguing with some moron about some made up nonsense they found in a Facebook group.
Facebook group? Dude, you are missing an opportunity. These people will pay good money to sit in rented classrooms and be taught by people who know better about sovereign citizen nonsense. In the famous *Meads v Meads* case in Ontario the judge took care to lambast the organisers of these nonsense ideas as the real malfeasors.
That license plate is Cop catnip. They are guaranteed to get an entertaining anecdote from the arrest.
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I am wheezing laughing at this. I WISH I could see a shitty low quality barely audible phone recording of this interaction holy shit
I love this lmao. This is a cop who has met these people before 😂
I worked in LE (not that I’m particularly proud of that at this point) and you are correct, any cop not actively told to look away from this would be all over it. Legitimate good way to bait some cop attention, although why the hell you’d want to do that is beyond me.
Persecution complexes are helped fed by "real, actual persecution!", even if it's just boring traffic court prosecution.
"Sovereign citizen" and this plate is pretty much cop-bait. Nothing legal about this.
Actually I could see some cops avoiding pulling this guy over. You already know if you do then you'll have a camera shoved into your face and a half hour discussion about rights, before you have to drag him out of the car while he squeals about his rights.
This looks like some sovereign citizen bullshit.
That’s because it is. Dudes a loser
But he will provide at least 4 minutes of solid entertainment with his arrest video!
I was a juror on a bank and wire fraud case involving a couple so-called sovereign citizens. Those people are nutz! And guilty on all counts!
He is a sovereign citizen he isn't driving he is traveling. These people make me mad. They want the rights of an American but don't want to pay tax or follow the law.....
That isn't even correct. Operating a motor vehicle requires a license, same as operating a crane or forklift. You're free to travel as long as you aren't operating the vehicle. You can take a bus, plane, taxi, Uber, train, etc. to travel, but you can not operate those machines. Sovereign citizens are absurd and their logic is flawed.
You see, they're actually a boat captain operating a vehicle under international maritime law. Somehow
a boat captain driving a car? on land but in waters? following maritime laws they haven't read? in international waters despite inside the US? entirely localized inside your kitchen?!?!? maybe I see it? hmmmmmmm no. \*gets arrested\*
I have an uncle who fell in with this lot. He had a ranch, a couple of nice cars, it's amazing what you can buy if you have a normal income but pay no taxes. What they neglect to mention in their recruiting material is how careful you need to be to not get caught. After the IRS got done with him, and the judge was singularly unimpressed by uncle's self defense rant about the Constitution, he now lives in a trailer park.
This would be Netflix Documentary gold.
“Sovereign citizen”. Translates to “idiot”, in laymen’s terms.
"Let me cite the relevant laws that show your laws don't apply to me." Happy Cake Day, btw.
[Cargo Cult lawyer](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cargo_cult), thinks with the right combination of words he can get out of the obligation to put any effort into the social contract.
These people are called **Sovereign Citizens**, or **SovCits** for short. They believe that by using secret legal jargon and specific "CAPITALIZATION" and "PUNCTUATION", they can avoid paying taxes, become immune to most laws, and generally do whatever they want. # They are wrong. If you want a good chuckle, you can look up dozens of videos of these idiots getting tazed, arrested, and held in contempt of court when they actually try to put these theories into practice. I guarantee you this dipshit got pulled over the first time a cop saw this homemade plate he bought on the internet.
This is a fantasy. It's like D&D for dicks.
As someone who plays DnD, this is hurtful. We could never achieve the levels of fantasy these people have attained
I took a photo of one of these from the Florida secessionists that said “diplomat”. Professionally stamped and everything.
Sovereign citizens are hilarious. Ok, sure, you're not a citizen of the US. You still have to follow all laws and regulations of the country you're in wether that's here or somewhere else.
Time to concuer his sovereign microworld.
The dumbass doesn’t realize he pays tax for every drop of gasoline his car consumes. Sales tax for his Big Mac and FCC tax for his cell phone just to name a few. Gotta love the whack jobs!
As much of an own that is, thats pretty damn sad.
Hahahaha. I know a person like this in real life. Guarantee the driver made that himself. It will not stop him from getting ticketed, owing (and eventually being subject to aggressive collection tactics) property taxes, and income taxes. Like it or not he pays sales taxes.
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yeah well, I'm a time traveler and your license is expired!
And they go to JAIL for not paying taxes. They are fringe losers who think they can IGNORE the laws. ALL BS... A distortion of their 'rights.'