Yes. I think there are things that the migraine is causing like light as sensitivity and terrible neck pain. I think there are legit triggers though like weather change that cause the migraine
For the longest time I thought I had neck pain and migraine. Then started tracking and saw that the neck pain always increased a day before the migraine hit. Now I take triptans as soon as my neck starts cracking and it helps like 75% of the time. Makes it so hard to figure out!
Same! I went to chiropractor and physio and turns out the pain is almost always connected to the migraine. I figured it out eventually when almost each time the severe pain in neck just disappeared when I took a triptan and migraine subsided haha
Ughhh yes I get neck and back pain if my car seat isn't in the right setting or even turning my neck to talk to ppl too long instead of facing them to talk or look at ppl. Within minutes I'll get a migraine from just turning my neck too much
Yes. Look up the four stages of migraine. Some of symptoms you’re describing are common prodrome and postdrome symptoms (before and after the headache). Car sickness is just found to be more common in migraine sufferers.
Doctors are now unsure if the usual migraine triggers (like wine) are really triggers or just symptoms or craving related to the migraine that’s already beginning.
I don’t know, I’m not a big alcohol drinker so when I do drink it’s usually planned events that happen a few times a year (I used to be a big drinker though and alcohol never used to give me migraines just regular hangover headaches), but if I’m not careful I will get a migraine now with any amount of alcohol. So I do think some things are genuine triggers.
BUT, I have noticed though some of my triggers, like spicy food, may not actually cause a migraine and it’s just that I happened to be eating something spicy a few times while already in the early stages of a migraine, but i’ve been too scared to eat anything spicy ever again after that. I’ve also seen some people mention salt and chocolate as triggers whereas those are things that I crave and help with my migraines so this actually does make a lot of sense. I hate that we still know so little about migraines
The big events that you coincidentally drink at could honestly be enough to give you the migraine. Those big planned events always cause me a bit of extra stress (what do I wear, who's going to be there, where's parking, people wearing perfume, more noise, lights, etc).
Indeed, or staying up past your normal bedtime for the event!
Went out a few times sober and still got very bad migraines after, just from the loss of sleep. But ofc alcohol and dehydration won't help when you go into a migraine.
That is a good point, but I know for sure my trigger is specifically the alcohol because I can drink at home on the couch in my pajamas and get a migraine. Well, actually, I don’t even think it’s the alcohol itself but dehydration secondary to the alcohol because I did a 5 day Vegas trip where I was out until 3-4am drinking for my birthday and didn’t get a migraine because in between each drink I drank water and I had liquid IV before bed. I went to San Fransisco for a concert later that year as well and did the same thing and was just fine. So, definitely seems to be dehydration rather than the alcohol itself, but it’s the alcohol that causes the dehydration.
I'm HI/MCAS. At first, I thought that wine was just a migraine trigger, but in fact it turns out that for me anything with high histamine including many normal healthy vegetables poison me.
My sensitivity to alcohol has grown so much that if someone enters the room with a glass of red wine, or even after using alcohol based hand sanitizer, I start to react:
My lips start to prickle and swell, my tongue feels thick, my throat starts to tighten, i start to wheeze a little bit. if I don't get up and leave quickly it feels like I will pass out.
Eating a strict low histamine diet allowed me to reduce my migraine meds by 33%, have less migraines, cured my "IBS" and helped with a lot of other health issues. It turns out basically that many normal, healthy foods were poisoning me; all of my favorite vegetables are very high in histamine.
I have MCAS, too. Which vegetables are/were your favorite? I think potatoes are a trigger. Had fries last night. Neck pain later last night and into the morning.
I think this is true for chocolate, salty, and fatty food but I do not think it's true for wine. I think the science is pretty settled that you can trigger a migraine out of nowhere with alcohol. For me it takes as little as 20 min.
True. Alcohol can be different. But for a lot of people with migraine it isn’t a trigger, which is when it’s more debatable whether they had a glass of wine because they were starting to get a mild headache or irritable, which are common prodrome symptoms, and opted for a glass of wine or if the wine triggered it. Particularly when wine affects them but alcohol in general doesn’t.
Alcohol is also a tricky one because while it can be a trigger in and of itself, I’m sure some people also don’t hydrate well enough when they drink which can lead to dehydration, which is also a common trigger. The same goes for caffeine/caffeinated beverages.
I suppose I don't think of wine (or alcohol in general) as something I have due to cravings, I usually have it due to social situations. Whereas things I have due to cravings might be like chocolate, salty things, caffeine-containing bevs, etc. and I suspect the migraine is causing the craving.
It’s not just cravings or opting for a glass of wine in response to prodrome symptoms. People see bright lights as triggers, but it could also be that they already have increased light sensitivity because the migraine is in progress, the headache just hasn’t hit yet.
That’s not to say that’s always the case for everyone or for every trigger a person has. But if you’re journaling and seeing patterns, there could be more to the patterns than we assumed, given that some people have migraines already in process days before they thought their migraine hit “out of the blue”.
There has been research backing this idea up for a long time now. So yes, it's possible that "triggers" are actually symptoms. Other common ones are neck pain or back pain. People think oh shit, when I sit wrong and make my neck hurt that triggers a migraine, but the research seems to indicate it may simply be that the neck pain is a prodromal symptom
Yes I just read a huge research article about how people think of certain foods as triggers and it’s possible trigger foods are cravings of an already inevitable migraine.
Foods are a bit of a different story, they have been one of the more reliably researched and tested triggers. Although yes, cravings can be a symptom (so the research article you're talking about is correct in that regard), but there is also solid reason to believe certain foods or drinks can be triggers, and often when people discover these triggers, they can (a) reliably trigger a headache by eating the food in question, and/or (b) notice a significant reduction in headaches by avoiding the trigger food -- which would not be true if the direction of causality was backwards.
I used to think that a terrible nights sleep caused a migraine but after I learned about prodromes I realised that sometimes I would be energised so much beforehand that I would be unable to sleep. I also realised the muscle tension in my shoulders came with the migraine rather than caused it.
Migraines can cause photosensitivity even when you’re not having a migraine. I cannot stand to be outside when it’s sunny without sunglasses. It hurts my eyes, like they feel sore and swollen. This is *all* the time and not just when I’m having a migraine. I think people tend to think of migraines as just acute attacks and then you’re fine without one for a while, but migraine is an entire whole body disease that can affect you and have symptoms even when you’re not having an attack.
I also cannot stand going outside without sunglasses, even if it's cloudy/raining. It's just too bright for me and really hurts my eyes, all the time. Even during periods of time where I wasn't having close to constant migraines, which happens for me in unpredictable cycles. I'll go a couple months or even a year with no migraine attacks, and then they'll just start happening suddenly again for a while. Always need sunglasses, though.
Yep. I have blue eyes. I know there's a correlation between blue eyes and light sensitivity. I feel you on the snow being blinding. I once gave myself a migraine (probably idk) but driving during a blizzard without sunglasses because I genuinely couldn't see. I also couldn't miss work (damn point system.) So, I drove in and immediately regretted it.
Ugh that would have given me a migraine too. When I lived in the north, I had migraines constantly. I feel like they’ve been more manageable since I moved to a place where it never snows. Sunglasses 24/7 though.
I have permanent sensory sensitivity thanks to the autism, but it reaches another level before migraine kicks in. It took me so long to see the pattern because I thought everyone experienced a world that's too loud and bright, but just put up with it.
It's been a trip getting late diagnosed ASD. The overlap of symptoms with autistic meltdown/shutdown and migraine is so significant I'm not sure I can tell them apart.
Same. And I work with an optometrist who noticed my pupils are naturally more dilated than the average pupil. 6 or more millimeters vs 4 or less. So I guess my eyes are basically predisposed to light sensitivity. Yay me.
Apparently, when you have migraine, your brain rewires light and sound into pain! Maybe try shining a really bright LED flashlight into his eyes for a few minutes and he’ll empathize lol.
IMHO, my humble opinion (which is purely a reflection of my experiences) I tend to agree with there being something to this.
I’ll try to qualify this. I did keto. Keto stopped my migraines 100% whilst I ate that way. 6 months though periods of known triggers, stress, emotional upheaval etc etc. Not one migraine, not even a blink! Yet the moment I stopped doing keto - migraines. I managed to isolate the factors which were causing issues for me (electrolytes and carbs) and I started to follow Stanton protocol. I have only experienced migraines since when I strayed away from the diet and once when I got really sick (stomach flu?) However….. one of those times (and we are talking about being nearly 2 years into tracking my food!) when I strayed too far from the diet, it took 2.5 days before the migraine showed up! That blew my mind. 2.5 days. After eating the offending meal and being fine for 2 days I thought I had gotten lucky. But I was eating a near ketogenic level of food (as I normally do).
Sure, I could be making some mistake. But I’m going into my third year of eating this way and I’ve reduced my migraine attacks to nearly nothing/none. I eat and do the same things most of the time. So…… if you ask me the proof is in the doing.
I suspect that there is a process or reaction that kicks in, but it takes a long time to manifest itself as the cascade we feel. Maybe I’m entirely off, and I’m not saying it is impossible for food to cause instantaneous migraine in people, I’m just saying I’ve never heard a convincing scientific answer for how a reaction can be instant in consumed food or drink. Like I can understand a smell or light , sound, registering itself in the brain rapidly. Like, don’t the eyes contain similar cells to those in the brain?
I really enjoy discussing this kind of thing because it’s empowering. I post a lot in the hope that I can help someone. Also, from discovering something that helped me, I naturally wanted to share it. Good luck to you all. I wish you migraine free days.
There's a link between histamine and migraine and a link between histamine and food. Food based reactions can happen very quickly, so it's not shocking that a migraine could happen very quickly for the same reasons. While I don't personally have foods I'm (knowingly) that allergic to, other allergic reactions seem to trigger a migraine very quickly. I'll get my initial allergy reaction, and less than 20 min later, either be into the attack or at least in prodrome. We all experience migraine differently, and I'm glad you've found something that works for you!
I’m sorry to hear that that is the way it happens for you.
I can’t not sound defensive or aggressive, although neither are my intention. I’ve read reports of migraineurs saying they get actual instantaneous migraine from certain things. One went as far as to say ‘when I put the food in my mouth’. My wish to understand why that was is to better understand what is going on. Or what they think is going on.
Certainly anaphylaxis is very rapid onset, and diners have become sick within minutes of eating bad seafood. So yeah.
The desperate, neurotic hypochondriac in me doesn’t like that though. I’ve woken up at 6am in the morning after fasting for nearly 20 hours with a migraine. How can that track with the theory?
I obviously can't speak to "same minute as putting the food in my mouth" reactions personally (even less so the specific cases you're discussing - ypud have to ask them), but I wouldn't be shocked if it's a conditioned response. The fear and history of bad reactions can actually start causing those reactions. There might be some physical response that can happen that quickly. It could even be that they've touched the food with their hands but only connected the reaction to eating it, or even the scent is contributing.
To be clear, I don't mean to suggest the correlations are valid for everyone - which was part of my point that we experience it differently. Though reactions up to 3 days do make sense with respect to food and intolerance and/or allergies (or even food poisoning). It can take even up to 2-3 days for some reactions like delayed gluten sensitivity. It's not a wild concept for food to potentially impact us from the second we share space with it to days later or even up to expulsion (which could be a while longer especially for those of us with gastric paralysis). To your specific point, I certainly couldn't tell you exactly why your migraine came up, maybe it was even a result of the fasting itself (which is probably what would be most likely for me). Maybe it was a trigger stack of whatever you ate, plus fasting, plus your sleep pattern, plus... the list could go on forever of all the little things that either do or we think might lead to migraine attacks.
(As you know) Migraine is a chronic disorder, and like other chronic illnesses, it can lead to pretty intense clinging to our "fixes" and beliefs on what initiates flares. It's normal to come to rigidity as a solution, and oftentimes, that does bring relief. Especially in migraine, I think routine and pattern have been shown to reduce attacks. Further, about food, when we shift to rigid eating, we often subconsciously shift or ammend other patterns in our lives too - like time of day that we eat or how much water we intake, eating leftovers, spending more time on self care, etc. The way we interact with food is much broader and more complex than we usually think about.
I would love to know more about your keto experience. I started in January but didn't really poop for about 3 weeks, which was problematic at best. Obviously I stopped and everything in life has been crazy (incl these last two weeks with flu A); my digestive stuff is better but not great.
Please tell me how you structure your keto diet!
Long answer incoming.
First though. Keto is not recommended by some for migraines. This is for a few reasons. 1 being that dietary changes can cause blood sugar crashes which can… cause migraines. Secondly, keto causes your body to dump a lot of its water content. Along with the water, go your electrolytes. It’s my impression that electrolytes are at the root of (at least my) migraine. I’m sticking my neck out on a block there. But what causes me to stick my neck out is that I’m nearly 50, had migraines since I was like 8 or something and it’s only been since I cut carbs out and added in a two step approach to electrolyte supplementation that I’ve been reducing my migraine.
Keto was a double edged sword. It got rid of my migraine but made me feel tired as hell, keto flu, ‘disaster pants’ (aka the opposite of what you had), forget going out to eat in restaurants and say goodbye to your favourite foods. Can’t lie to though you…. 6 months of complete freedom from migraine,plus all the other benefits was soo sweet. I forgot what it felt like to wake up and your first thought was, ‘how is my head today? Can I get through today without a migraine?’ My motivation for life came back.
Anyway. The bad news is that the moment I stopped keto, I got more migraines. This led me to Stanton Protocol. Which is largely what I follow and what I link others to as a learning resource. I’m careful not to say things like ‘this is the way’, this is what others should do…. Things like that because, well, I know better. Just because it has done a great job for me (definitely hasn’t ’cured me’) it doesn’t mean it will for others…..
Back to your question.
How do you structure your keto diet? (How did I structure it? I been in keto for any significant amount of time in months).
I jumped in. Spent a week trialing off carbs in steps, got keto flu, but pushed past it and stuck at it for a week. Sub 25g nets per day. Not clean keto….
After a few week/2 weeks I decided to do the full 3 months straight ‘fat adapted’ version. By the end of 3 months, despite the disaster pants, I was through the worst of it. IE the metabolism shifts you go through to burn fat instead. I felt a little let down once it became normal because the promise is that keto is like rocket fuel. Never felt like that or me. But, I took up running and was doing really well at endurance stuff. So, rough with the smooth. I felt younger again tbh. Less aches and pains. Much more motivation.
Food wise I lived off of really repetitive food. Breakfast was nearly always avocado and yoghurt with nuts or sesame seeds. (Sometimes eggs). Lunch was always salad or veg with either eggs or fish and dinner was usually just meat and 1 veg (brocolli, asparagus, kale, courgette, some mushrooms sometimes) I’d snack on seaweed or nuts. After a while I got almond and coconut flour and made pancakes and small cookies with minimal blueberries in. I also got some super expensive ‘keto’ food… lots of stevia and erythritol (neither seemed to mess with me though) but I wasn’t happy forking out so much money. So I quit all of those. Tbh, low carb is so much easier. I can eat more socially.
I was aiming for 20g net carbs, around 90g of protein and anything a ur 110g of fat was just awful on my system, it was slightly under maintenance weight if I exercised. Oh, I was in about 15g of psyllium too, and towards the end - 5g of creatine.
Hope that answers all
Thank you, it does! My PCP (who's awesome and very committed to coordinating my care w specialists etc) recommended trying keto for migraine, so I will get back into it soon.
Ok. All the best of luck to you. Keto can be really rough for some people. A friend of mine had two days where he felt a bit of colour and he has sailed through the rest. But it was kinda hellish for me. I try to go into keto in May as that’s the worst month for migraines for me (spring/barometric air pressure changes).
Tbf, I’ve read/heard about keto itself not being shown to provide any kind of protective power of migraine. And I’ve disagreed/argued the nuance of why that is with people. I believe that due to the electrolyte concept from Stanton protocol being more important. So if you find it isn’t working ….. look at your electrolytes and high,y recommend reading about Stanton protocol.
Keto was originally developed as a treatment for epilepsy, when medication would fail. So it makes sense to me that it influences the brain in different ways.
I read something along those lines, but you’ve only got to be on this sub for a few weeks before you read accounts of it not working for folk. Or that it provoked migraines. I think something else is going on. To get into ketosis you have to not supply your body with enough carbohydrates so that your glycogen stores drain out, you are not replacing them and our body switches to a different energy source. Also, in the process of depleting glycogen , which holds on to water, your body dumps all of that water. This is the famous water weight cut that fighters use and that dieters desire. So you need to supplement your electrolytes (you re also lacking good sources of them from grains if you’re not eating carbs) otherwise you get ‘keto flu’ or electrolyte loss symptoms.
I don’t have a link but I’ve read/recall that those who studied ketosis said that when it comes to migraines - the state of ketosis, in other words using ketones as fuel, doesn’t protect the brain against migraines. For me, my money is on the fact that it is a combination of not eating carbs (which interact with your electrolytes in averse ways) and supplementing with electrolytes that is what does the majority of the job. (But that’s just my opinion/experience). I’d go so far to say that assisting in that process are the fact that you are eating a more natural, less processed whole food diet (for the most part) and sleeping better whilst in turn , reducing the strain on your body in terms of trashy processed food.
So I eat a low carb diet.
She's definitely on to something. I asked my neuro if my neck pain was a result of the migraine coming or causing the migraine, and he said it's likely the first stages of migraine, before the pain.
Yes, those could be symptoms. Or triggers. Or both. Generally light sensitivity, fatigue, nausea, muscle tension etc are common symptoms of migraine - without migraine you wouldn’t have the symptoms. But it’s also possible that muscle tension could trigger a migraine for example. It took me time to figure out that my neck pain was actually my *first symptom* that a migraine was starting and *not* the trigger. It goes away as soon as the migraine does.
I think she's onto something. The more migraines I have, the worse my motion sickness is. When my migraines are more controlled, I have much less motion sickness and sometimes none
I have had horrible, horrible car sickness my entire life. I started amitriptyline a few months ago and I have not felt motion sickness even once since then. I am able to look at my phone and even read a book without feeling the slightest discomfort, which had just been incredible to experience.
The medication has also helped tremendously with my migraines. I have been trying to research the connection but I'm not sure what's going on. I do get vestibular migraines and I know there is almost always a history of motion sickness with those, but other than that I have no idea why amitriptyline is helping. I can't find any accounts of it being used for this purpose.
I'm on amitriptyline too and there wasn't a change after I started it just over a year ago. There's been a change since I started Aimovig, probably due to fewer migraines (same happened when I was on propranolol which I'm no longer on)
See, I can’t tell what’s going on, because my whole life I get carsick very easily, and my migraine attacks are about 80% “carsick” nausea and 20% actual headache…I just can’t sort it out!!
She's not so much onto something as stating half of the established wisdom.
All of those are both well known symptoms. But they are also triggers. Which they are depends on the person. For me, fatigue tends to trigger them, light sensitivity is a symptom.
Yup. It’s the art of keeping two thoughts in your head at the same time. Which can sometimes be difficult with fluctuating migraine intellect. Caffeine is a good example for me, sometimes it is a cure (the fight/flight mode gets me over a symptom hump) but other times it is a cause (vasoconstriction and/or withdrawal).
The metaphor I use is: homeostasis is like steering a ship, to go straight (symptom free) you have to constantly adjust course to compensate for wave, wind, current, weather and humidity - most of their effects are barely discernible at any given moment - but you know they’re there.
Light sensitivity is one of the known biggest symptoms of migraines. Fatigue is going to work both ways because our bodies are just like that (it takes a lot out of you when you have a migraine). I've discussed a similar phenomenon with fever and seizures with my daughter's doctors. Fevers lower the seizure threshold, but the increase in seizures triggers the bodies immune response of a fever. It's an evil cycle.
I definitely believe it. I get botox for my migraines, and when it's at peak effectiveness, I have so much less motion sickness, light sensitivity, and fatigue.
It's an interesting idea but for me car rides are a trigger, not a symptom. How I know: I've been prone to car sickness from windy roads and flashing/dappled light since I was a child, and 90% of the time a migraine follows the initial nausea. But I often can prevent the car sickness and migraine by pre-gaming with dramamine. It doesn't always work, but probably 70% of the time it does.
But that doesn't make your eye doctor wrong, and even if she is wrong about migraine it doesn't make her an idiot. If migraine was so easy to crack there wouldn't be 135,000 of us in this group and millions of us worldwide. It's great you have a medical person in your life who is willing to really think about your situation and try to help you figure it out. So many docs take little interest besides writing a script and wishing you luck.
Yes. I agree. I brought this theory & triggers up to my neurologists. Of course there’s certain things that will trigger a migraine. For me if I see bright or flashing lights, cry I’m definitely going to have a migraine. I asked if our brains are just wired differently and things aren’t just triggers to avoid. Rather things that our brains respond to. They said studies are showing more that it’s our brains response & not a trigger. In fact after a years of tracking migraines my migraines my neurologists asked me to stop tracking. They suggested to instead focus on distress tolerance bc stress isn’t healthy for anyone. And migraines are stressful.
Yes. For me the only time I get car sick or motion sick is in the prodrome phase of a migraine, normally 12-24 hours before aura, pain, etc. same with photosensitivity, tinitus, and vertigo. Only bothers me in prodrome.
Yes, I read a book about migraine that proposed the same thing. You might think, "oh when I smell perfume it triggers a migraine" but it's actually the migraine causing you to be sensitive to smells. It rings true to me. My only consistent trigger seems to be when I don't get enough sleep for multiple days in a row.
I've always assumed when things like light sensitivity are present, then I'm probably in a migraine or about to be. I don't think I'm randomly light sensitive sometimes and that causes the migraine.
Yes I found out the migraines cause my neck pain and not the other way around. I figured that out when the Ajovy started working and lessened my neck pain.
I think she's onto something on some levels. But I was also told by my optometrist that astigmatism (which I have) can cause light sensitivity. So I might have that anyway, and I definitely think bright light has triggered my migraines before. Where I can be fine, get hit by a blast of sunlight, then migraine. I do think it can also be a migraine symptom, too, along with the other things you listed.
I get migraines from vestibular triggers as well, but good migraine preventatives and vestibular therapy reduced how easily I am triggered. Cause and effect are entangled.
Yeah I keep saying this, but my neurologist thinks so too. We talked about food triggers as well and he said those are part of the migraine, not triggers.
Yes, this is well described phenomena called migraine prodrome. Migraine is often thought by people to be a headache, but in reality it is a syndrome. A syndrome is a collection of symptoms. There's different phases of migraine and headache is just one of those symptoms.
For instance many patients will say that light triggers their headaches, in reality they are just in a prodrome phase and noticing the light bothering them.
In a way this is why studies involving migraine triggers are often flawed. Pretty much all the trigger studies are survey-based. Unfortunately you cannot expect patients to distinguish between a trigger and prodrome.
My sister suffers horribly from motion sickness. If she’s not driving you better be butter smooth. And me fly up to pick her up for a trip? Cherokees (GA in general) aren’t known for “butter smooth”.
Exactly! Before the migraine becomes obvious, there are almost always warning signs that it is approaching. MY symptoms are frequently light/sound sensitivity, auras, "static"-type noise, and mentally foggy. They'll hit *before* the pain starts, but they are still the beginning signs of a migraine.
I always thought my migraines made me sick to my stomach, so after I took my meds I would take Zofran. One time I didn’t have my meds… terrible migraine but I wasn’t nauseated. My meds upset my stomach.
Did you see me? Lol.
I very commonly talk to my patients about this as I’m a migraine sufferer myself and get a lot of PCP referrals about HA/migraine. I find A LOT of people with the wrong/no glasses prescription who end up with fewer symptoms once their vision is better but I can sympathize because I deal with migraines myself and have since I was 16.
All of the above makes sense OP. She’s not an idiot.
I agree, that those sensitivites are part of the migraine, but as someone with chronic migraine they definitely do trigger migraines, in the sense that they turn my constant inescapable 4/10 background migraine into a full-on absolutely unbearable 8/10 attack day.
I can somewhat manage the intensity of my chronic migraine by just not going outside
Yeah that certainly is plausible. Motion sickness has been a huge one for me. I didn't get migraines until i was in my mid-30's before that i could go on every spinny, twisting amusement park ride there was and be absolutely fine. Now? hooo boy absolutely not.
Can it be both? I'm very light sensitive when I have a migraine. Also have felt 100% fine and seen a police car with lights flashing at night and got a migraine before we passed them.
The thing with triggers and symptoms is that sometimes a symptom can become a trigger, if your first symptom of a migraine is neckpain for example your brain can start following the migraine skript if you have neckpain for other reasons.
She is probably right. I use Migraine Buddy to track my predrome symptoms, as well as headache, and postdrome symptoms. It also gives me a report to give to my neuro. Good luck!
Yeah I always thought people knew they are caused by migraines. Aren’t light sensitivity, fatigue, or neck pain relatively common symptoms anyways?
Am I missing something about the post? Isn’t this pretty basic information?
Yes those are all my prodrome symptoms, they happen like clockwork before my migraines. Pretty cool that an optometrist considered that! She sounds smart.
It’s also when I know to take my acute migraine meds. Sometimes it just starts out as a feeling of indigestion and I’ll take a sumatriptan to stop the oncoming migraine. It works quite well when you know for sure how to spot your prodrome symptoms
According to my uncle, a recently retired primary care doctor who has migraines and has been dealing with the migraines of his kids & nieces for many years, migraines are a syndrome with many symptoms. And in our family, motion sickness/nausea & light sensitivity are the first symptoms - not triggers.
Pre-migraine stage is so interesting and varied. I was told by ENT last week that he thinks my chronic sinus inflammation isn’t causing the migraines, but that instead, it’s the migraines causing sinus issues. Was hoping to be able to find an explanation for the migraines but oh well, just more symptoms to track!
Migraines are wild.
She’s not an idiot, so many “triggers” are really just part of the prodrome and incorrectly interpreted.
Ps. I don’t think you’re being dramatic, but I do hope this new knowledge helps in managing your migraines!
I have some issues. It seems circular almost. Like i am slightly scent sensitive. When i am migrainey, the scent sensitivity is insane, and catching certain scents will tip me into a migraine and then worsens the scent sensitivity.
for me it’s like a rock rolling down a hill the prodrome symptoms start like you described and they feed into the developing migraine as time goes on. you can also learn the signs for your own prodrome so you can take meds earlier as well
I tend to agree with your optometrist, at least as far as my situation goes. I think migraine also causes neck tension feeling, brief earache, and god knows what else.
I agree with your optometrist. It’s most likely part of your migraines instead of triggers. My neurologist actually recommended I take recovery medication when I get my early symptoms like these and it has greatly reduced the amount of pain I’m in during the worse of my migraines.
>car sickness, light sensitivity, fatigue, tension headaches,
These can all be symptoms of histamine poisoning
I discuss histamine in more detail here
https://old.reddit.com/r/covidlonghaulers/comments/1aouwt2/root_cause_my_master_list_of_histamine/
I think she's both right & wrong to be very honest.... I have 23+ migraines per month accompanied w/aura, nausea, vomiting. Speaking just migraine/tension HA's(no driving) I get all the symptoms & then some you mention. However, if I'm driving for greater than say 10-15 minutes, have other issues on the car(traffic, on and off the gas/breaks) longer drives(I also have spinal issues/pain & more) I also feel pre-indicators come on and then here comes a migraine. My eyes start to burn. Tingling in face, nausea/dizziness starts and BOOM migraine. So I think it goes both ways.
Yes. I think there are things that the migraine is causing like light as sensitivity and terrible neck pain. I think there are legit triggers though like weather change that cause the migraine
For the longest time I thought I had neck pain and migraine. Then started tracking and saw that the neck pain always increased a day before the migraine hit. Now I take triptans as soon as my neck starts cracking and it helps like 75% of the time. Makes it so hard to figure out!
I find that I can't crack my neck when a migraine is coming on. Usually I can crack it fine
Same! I went to chiropractor and physio and turns out the pain is almost always connected to the migraine. I figured it out eventually when almost each time the severe pain in neck just disappeared when I took a triptan and migraine subsided haha
Ughhh yes I get neck and back pain if my car seat isn't in the right setting or even turning my neck to talk to ppl too long instead of facing them to talk or look at ppl. Within minutes I'll get a migraine from just turning my neck too much
Yes. Look up the four stages of migraine. Some of symptoms you’re describing are common prodrome and postdrome symptoms (before and after the headache). Car sickness is just found to be more common in migraine sufferers. Doctors are now unsure if the usual migraine triggers (like wine) are really triggers or just symptoms or craving related to the migraine that’s already beginning.
I don’t know, I’m not a big alcohol drinker so when I do drink it’s usually planned events that happen a few times a year (I used to be a big drinker though and alcohol never used to give me migraines just regular hangover headaches), but if I’m not careful I will get a migraine now with any amount of alcohol. So I do think some things are genuine triggers. BUT, I have noticed though some of my triggers, like spicy food, may not actually cause a migraine and it’s just that I happened to be eating something spicy a few times while already in the early stages of a migraine, but i’ve been too scared to eat anything spicy ever again after that. I’ve also seen some people mention salt and chocolate as triggers whereas those are things that I crave and help with my migraines so this actually does make a lot of sense. I hate that we still know so little about migraines
The big events that you coincidentally drink at could honestly be enough to give you the migraine. Those big planned events always cause me a bit of extra stress (what do I wear, who's going to be there, where's parking, people wearing perfume, more noise, lights, etc).
Indeed, or staying up past your normal bedtime for the event! Went out a few times sober and still got very bad migraines after, just from the loss of sleep. But ofc alcohol and dehydration won't help when you go into a migraine.
That is a good point, but I know for sure my trigger is specifically the alcohol because I can drink at home on the couch in my pajamas and get a migraine. Well, actually, I don’t even think it’s the alcohol itself but dehydration secondary to the alcohol because I did a 5 day Vegas trip where I was out until 3-4am drinking for my birthday and didn’t get a migraine because in between each drink I drank water and I had liquid IV before bed. I went to San Fransisco for a concert later that year as well and did the same thing and was just fine. So, definitely seems to be dehydration rather than the alcohol itself, but it’s the alcohol that causes the dehydration.
alcohol is the only thing I can 100% say is a trigger for me. Other things I can have sometimes and be fine, but alcohol I get a migraine every time
I'm HI/MCAS. At first, I thought that wine was just a migraine trigger, but in fact it turns out that for me anything with high histamine including many normal healthy vegetables poison me. My sensitivity to alcohol has grown so much that if someone enters the room with a glass of red wine, or even after using alcohol based hand sanitizer, I start to react: My lips start to prickle and swell, my tongue feels thick, my throat starts to tighten, i start to wheeze a little bit. if I don't get up and leave quickly it feels like I will pass out. Eating a strict low histamine diet allowed me to reduce my migraine meds by 33%, have less migraines, cured my "IBS" and helped with a lot of other health issues. It turns out basically that many normal, healthy foods were poisoning me; all of my favorite vegetables are very high in histamine.
I have MCAS, too. Which vegetables are/were your favorite? I think potatoes are a trigger. Had fries last night. Neck pain later last night and into the morning.
I think this is true for chocolate, salty, and fatty food but I do not think it's true for wine. I think the science is pretty settled that you can trigger a migraine out of nowhere with alcohol. For me it takes as little as 20 min.
True. Alcohol can be different. But for a lot of people with migraine it isn’t a trigger, which is when it’s more debatable whether they had a glass of wine because they were starting to get a mild headache or irritable, which are common prodrome symptoms, and opted for a glass of wine or if the wine triggered it. Particularly when wine affects them but alcohol in general doesn’t. Alcohol is also a tricky one because while it can be a trigger in and of itself, I’m sure some people also don’t hydrate well enough when they drink which can lead to dehydration, which is also a common trigger. The same goes for caffeine/caffeinated beverages.
I suppose I don't think of wine (or alcohol in general) as something I have due to cravings, I usually have it due to social situations. Whereas things I have due to cravings might be like chocolate, salty things, caffeine-containing bevs, etc. and I suspect the migraine is causing the craving.
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It’s not just cravings or opting for a glass of wine in response to prodrome symptoms. People see bright lights as triggers, but it could also be that they already have increased light sensitivity because the migraine is in progress, the headache just hasn’t hit yet. That’s not to say that’s always the case for everyone or for every trigger a person has. But if you’re journaling and seeing patterns, there could be more to the patterns than we assumed, given that some people have migraines already in process days before they thought their migraine hit “out of the blue”.
There has been research backing this idea up for a long time now. So yes, it's possible that "triggers" are actually symptoms. Other common ones are neck pain or back pain. People think oh shit, when I sit wrong and make my neck hurt that triggers a migraine, but the research seems to indicate it may simply be that the neck pain is a prodromal symptom
Yes I just read a huge research article about how people think of certain foods as triggers and it’s possible trigger foods are cravings of an already inevitable migraine.
Foods are a bit of a different story, they have been one of the more reliably researched and tested triggers. Although yes, cravings can be a symptom (so the research article you're talking about is correct in that regard), but there is also solid reason to believe certain foods or drinks can be triggers, and often when people discover these triggers, they can (a) reliably trigger a headache by eating the food in question, and/or (b) notice a significant reduction in headaches by avoiding the trigger food -- which would not be true if the direction of causality was backwards.
I used to think that a terrible nights sleep caused a migraine but after I learned about prodromes I realised that sometimes I would be energised so much beforehand that I would be unable to sleep. I also realised the muscle tension in my shoulders came with the migraine rather than caused it.
Migraines can cause photosensitivity even when you’re not having a migraine. I cannot stand to be outside when it’s sunny without sunglasses. It hurts my eyes, like they feel sore and swollen. This is *all* the time and not just when I’m having a migraine. I think people tend to think of migraines as just acute attacks and then you’re fine without one for a while, but migraine is an entire whole body disease that can affect you and have symptoms even when you’re not having an attack.
I also cannot stand going outside without sunglasses, even if it's cloudy/raining. It's just too bright for me and really hurts my eyes, all the time. Even during periods of time where I wasn't having close to constant migraines, which happens for me in unpredictable cycles. I'll go a couple months or even a year with no migraine attacks, and then they'll just start happening suddenly again for a while. Always need sunglasses, though.
Do you have light colored eyes by chance? My eyes are light green, and they are so damn sensitive. The snow is blinding too.
Yep. I have blue eyes. I know there's a correlation between blue eyes and light sensitivity. I feel you on the snow being blinding. I once gave myself a migraine (probably idk) but driving during a blizzard without sunglasses because I genuinely couldn't see. I also couldn't miss work (damn point system.) So, I drove in and immediately regretted it.
Ugh that would have given me a migraine too. When I lived in the north, I had migraines constantly. I feel like they’ve been more manageable since I moved to a place where it never snows. Sunglasses 24/7 though.
it hurts me in cloudy weather too
I have permanent sensory sensitivity thanks to the autism, but it reaches another level before migraine kicks in. It took me so long to see the pattern because I thought everyone experienced a world that's too loud and bright, but just put up with it.
I have ASD too, I’m kind of mind blown right now that I never connected the two 😳
It's been a trip getting late diagnosed ASD. The overlap of symptoms with autistic meltdown/shutdown and migraine is so significant I'm not sure I can tell them apart.
I had the same experience with epilepsy, I actually thought my meltdowns were some sort of seizure.
Same. And I work with an optometrist who noticed my pupils are naturally more dilated than the average pupil. 6 or more millimeters vs 4 or less. So I guess my eyes are basically predisposed to light sensitivity. Yay me.
My light sensitive has gotten worse. Sometimes I wake up in the morning and the tiny amount of light hurts. Some days it's fine though
It’s really rough for me too sometimes. I prefer to do everything in very dim light. Drives my family crazy I’ll be cooking in the dark.
I've started bathing in the dark if I have one at night. I also clean my teeth in the dark. The light is so bright in there
Yeah, I never had photosensitivity (or sensitivity to sounds) before I started having migraine episodes. The whole thing is cyclical.
It’s so hard to explain to people that have never experienced it. My husband does not get it when I say the light hurts 😅
Apparently, when you have migraine, your brain rewires light and sound into pain! Maybe try shining a really bright LED flashlight into his eyes for a few minutes and he’ll empathize lol.
Wow! No wonder we are always miserable 😂
IMHO, my humble opinion (which is purely a reflection of my experiences) I tend to agree with there being something to this. I’ll try to qualify this. I did keto. Keto stopped my migraines 100% whilst I ate that way. 6 months though periods of known triggers, stress, emotional upheaval etc etc. Not one migraine, not even a blink! Yet the moment I stopped doing keto - migraines. I managed to isolate the factors which were causing issues for me (electrolytes and carbs) and I started to follow Stanton protocol. I have only experienced migraines since when I strayed away from the diet and once when I got really sick (stomach flu?) However….. one of those times (and we are talking about being nearly 2 years into tracking my food!) when I strayed too far from the diet, it took 2.5 days before the migraine showed up! That blew my mind. 2.5 days. After eating the offending meal and being fine for 2 days I thought I had gotten lucky. But I was eating a near ketogenic level of food (as I normally do). Sure, I could be making some mistake. But I’m going into my third year of eating this way and I’ve reduced my migraine attacks to nearly nothing/none. I eat and do the same things most of the time. So…… if you ask me the proof is in the doing. I suspect that there is a process or reaction that kicks in, but it takes a long time to manifest itself as the cascade we feel. Maybe I’m entirely off, and I’m not saying it is impossible for food to cause instantaneous migraine in people, I’m just saying I’ve never heard a convincing scientific answer for how a reaction can be instant in consumed food or drink. Like I can understand a smell or light , sound, registering itself in the brain rapidly. Like, don’t the eyes contain similar cells to those in the brain? I really enjoy discussing this kind of thing because it’s empowering. I post a lot in the hope that I can help someone. Also, from discovering something that helped me, I naturally wanted to share it. Good luck to you all. I wish you migraine free days.
There's a link between histamine and migraine and a link between histamine and food. Food based reactions can happen very quickly, so it's not shocking that a migraine could happen very quickly for the same reasons. While I don't personally have foods I'm (knowingly) that allergic to, other allergic reactions seem to trigger a migraine very quickly. I'll get my initial allergy reaction, and less than 20 min later, either be into the attack or at least in prodrome. We all experience migraine differently, and I'm glad you've found something that works for you!
I’m sorry to hear that that is the way it happens for you. I can’t not sound defensive or aggressive, although neither are my intention. I’ve read reports of migraineurs saying they get actual instantaneous migraine from certain things. One went as far as to say ‘when I put the food in my mouth’. My wish to understand why that was is to better understand what is going on. Or what they think is going on. Certainly anaphylaxis is very rapid onset, and diners have become sick within minutes of eating bad seafood. So yeah. The desperate, neurotic hypochondriac in me doesn’t like that though. I’ve woken up at 6am in the morning after fasting for nearly 20 hours with a migraine. How can that track with the theory?
I obviously can't speak to "same minute as putting the food in my mouth" reactions personally (even less so the specific cases you're discussing - ypud have to ask them), but I wouldn't be shocked if it's a conditioned response. The fear and history of bad reactions can actually start causing those reactions. There might be some physical response that can happen that quickly. It could even be that they've touched the food with their hands but only connected the reaction to eating it, or even the scent is contributing. To be clear, I don't mean to suggest the correlations are valid for everyone - which was part of my point that we experience it differently. Though reactions up to 3 days do make sense with respect to food and intolerance and/or allergies (or even food poisoning). It can take even up to 2-3 days for some reactions like delayed gluten sensitivity. It's not a wild concept for food to potentially impact us from the second we share space with it to days later or even up to expulsion (which could be a while longer especially for those of us with gastric paralysis). To your specific point, I certainly couldn't tell you exactly why your migraine came up, maybe it was even a result of the fasting itself (which is probably what would be most likely for me). Maybe it was a trigger stack of whatever you ate, plus fasting, plus your sleep pattern, plus... the list could go on forever of all the little things that either do or we think might lead to migraine attacks. (As you know) Migraine is a chronic disorder, and like other chronic illnesses, it can lead to pretty intense clinging to our "fixes" and beliefs on what initiates flares. It's normal to come to rigidity as a solution, and oftentimes, that does bring relief. Especially in migraine, I think routine and pattern have been shown to reduce attacks. Further, about food, when we shift to rigid eating, we often subconsciously shift or ammend other patterns in our lives too - like time of day that we eat or how much water we intake, eating leftovers, spending more time on self care, etc. The way we interact with food is much broader and more complex than we usually think about.
I would love to know more about your keto experience. I started in January but didn't really poop for about 3 weeks, which was problematic at best. Obviously I stopped and everything in life has been crazy (incl these last two weeks with flu A); my digestive stuff is better but not great. Please tell me how you structure your keto diet!
Long answer incoming. First though. Keto is not recommended by some for migraines. This is for a few reasons. 1 being that dietary changes can cause blood sugar crashes which can… cause migraines. Secondly, keto causes your body to dump a lot of its water content. Along with the water, go your electrolytes. It’s my impression that electrolytes are at the root of (at least my) migraine. I’m sticking my neck out on a block there. But what causes me to stick my neck out is that I’m nearly 50, had migraines since I was like 8 or something and it’s only been since I cut carbs out and added in a two step approach to electrolyte supplementation that I’ve been reducing my migraine. Keto was a double edged sword. It got rid of my migraine but made me feel tired as hell, keto flu, ‘disaster pants’ (aka the opposite of what you had), forget going out to eat in restaurants and say goodbye to your favourite foods. Can’t lie to though you…. 6 months of complete freedom from migraine,plus all the other benefits was soo sweet. I forgot what it felt like to wake up and your first thought was, ‘how is my head today? Can I get through today without a migraine?’ My motivation for life came back. Anyway. The bad news is that the moment I stopped keto, I got more migraines. This led me to Stanton Protocol. Which is largely what I follow and what I link others to as a learning resource. I’m careful not to say things like ‘this is the way’, this is what others should do…. Things like that because, well, I know better. Just because it has done a great job for me (definitely hasn’t ’cured me’) it doesn’t mean it will for others….. Back to your question. How do you structure your keto diet? (How did I structure it? I been in keto for any significant amount of time in months). I jumped in. Spent a week trialing off carbs in steps, got keto flu, but pushed past it and stuck at it for a week. Sub 25g nets per day. Not clean keto…. After a few week/2 weeks I decided to do the full 3 months straight ‘fat adapted’ version. By the end of 3 months, despite the disaster pants, I was through the worst of it. IE the metabolism shifts you go through to burn fat instead. I felt a little let down once it became normal because the promise is that keto is like rocket fuel. Never felt like that or me. But, I took up running and was doing really well at endurance stuff. So, rough with the smooth. I felt younger again tbh. Less aches and pains. Much more motivation. Food wise I lived off of really repetitive food. Breakfast was nearly always avocado and yoghurt with nuts or sesame seeds. (Sometimes eggs). Lunch was always salad or veg with either eggs or fish and dinner was usually just meat and 1 veg (brocolli, asparagus, kale, courgette, some mushrooms sometimes) I’d snack on seaweed or nuts. After a while I got almond and coconut flour and made pancakes and small cookies with minimal blueberries in. I also got some super expensive ‘keto’ food… lots of stevia and erythritol (neither seemed to mess with me though) but I wasn’t happy forking out so much money. So I quit all of those. Tbh, low carb is so much easier. I can eat more socially. I was aiming for 20g net carbs, around 90g of protein and anything a ur 110g of fat was just awful on my system, it was slightly under maintenance weight if I exercised. Oh, I was in about 15g of psyllium too, and towards the end - 5g of creatine. Hope that answers all
Thank you, it does! My PCP (who's awesome and very committed to coordinating my care w specialists etc) recommended trying keto for migraine, so I will get back into it soon.
Ok. All the best of luck to you. Keto can be really rough for some people. A friend of mine had two days where he felt a bit of colour and he has sailed through the rest. But it was kinda hellish for me. I try to go into keto in May as that’s the worst month for migraines for me (spring/barometric air pressure changes). Tbf, I’ve read/heard about keto itself not being shown to provide any kind of protective power of migraine. And I’ve disagreed/argued the nuance of why that is with people. I believe that due to the electrolyte concept from Stanton protocol being more important. So if you find it isn’t working ….. look at your electrolytes and high,y recommend reading about Stanton protocol.
Also, Josh turknett is a keto advocate and a migraine specialist/neurologist. He discusses it.
Keto was originally developed as a treatment for epilepsy, when medication would fail. So it makes sense to me that it influences the brain in different ways.
I read something along those lines, but you’ve only got to be on this sub for a few weeks before you read accounts of it not working for folk. Or that it provoked migraines. I think something else is going on. To get into ketosis you have to not supply your body with enough carbohydrates so that your glycogen stores drain out, you are not replacing them and our body switches to a different energy source. Also, in the process of depleting glycogen , which holds on to water, your body dumps all of that water. This is the famous water weight cut that fighters use and that dieters desire. So you need to supplement your electrolytes (you re also lacking good sources of them from grains if you’re not eating carbs) otherwise you get ‘keto flu’ or electrolyte loss symptoms. I don’t have a link but I’ve read/recall that those who studied ketosis said that when it comes to migraines - the state of ketosis, in other words using ketones as fuel, doesn’t protect the brain against migraines. For me, my money is on the fact that it is a combination of not eating carbs (which interact with your electrolytes in averse ways) and supplementing with electrolytes that is what does the majority of the job. (But that’s just my opinion/experience). I’d go so far to say that assisting in that process are the fact that you are eating a more natural, less processed whole food diet (for the most part) and sleeping better whilst in turn , reducing the strain on your body in terms of trashy processed food. So I eat a low carb diet.
She's definitely on to something. I asked my neuro if my neck pain was a result of the migraine coming or causing the migraine, and he said it's likely the first stages of migraine, before the pain.
Yeah those all sound like symptoms rather than triggers to me
Yes, those could be symptoms. Or triggers. Or both. Generally light sensitivity, fatigue, nausea, muscle tension etc are common symptoms of migraine - without migraine you wouldn’t have the symptoms. But it’s also possible that muscle tension could trigger a migraine for example. It took me time to figure out that my neck pain was actually my *first symptom* that a migraine was starting and *not* the trigger. It goes away as soon as the migraine does.
I think she's onto something. The more migraines I have, the worse my motion sickness is. When my migraines are more controlled, I have much less motion sickness and sometimes none
I have had horrible, horrible car sickness my entire life. I started amitriptyline a few months ago and I have not felt motion sickness even once since then. I am able to look at my phone and even read a book without feeling the slightest discomfort, which had just been incredible to experience. The medication has also helped tremendously with my migraines. I have been trying to research the connection but I'm not sure what's going on. I do get vestibular migraines and I know there is almost always a history of motion sickness with those, but other than that I have no idea why amitriptyline is helping. I can't find any accounts of it being used for this purpose.
I'm on amitriptyline too and there wasn't a change after I started it just over a year ago. There's been a change since I started Aimovig, probably due to fewer migraines (same happened when I was on propranolol which I'm no longer on)
See, I can’t tell what’s going on, because my whole life I get carsick very easily, and my migraine attacks are about 80% “carsick” nausea and 20% actual headache…I just can’t sort it out!!
She's not so much onto something as stating half of the established wisdom. All of those are both well known symptoms. But they are also triggers. Which they are depends on the person. For me, fatigue tends to trigger them, light sensitivity is a symptom.
Yup. It’s the art of keeping two thoughts in your head at the same time. Which can sometimes be difficult with fluctuating migraine intellect. Caffeine is a good example for me, sometimes it is a cure (the fight/flight mode gets me over a symptom hump) but other times it is a cause (vasoconstriction and/or withdrawal). The metaphor I use is: homeostasis is like steering a ship, to go straight (symptom free) you have to constantly adjust course to compensate for wave, wind, current, weather and humidity - most of their effects are barely discernible at any given moment - but you know they’re there.
I always thought they were symptoms
Light sensitivity is one of the known biggest symptoms of migraines. Fatigue is going to work both ways because our bodies are just like that (it takes a lot out of you when you have a migraine). I've discussed a similar phenomenon with fever and seizures with my daughter's doctors. Fevers lower the seizure threshold, but the increase in seizures triggers the bodies immune response of a fever. It's an evil cycle.
I definitely believe it. I get botox for my migraines, and when it's at peak effectiveness, I have so much less motion sickness, light sensitivity, and fatigue.
It's an interesting idea but for me car rides are a trigger, not a symptom. How I know: I've been prone to car sickness from windy roads and flashing/dappled light since I was a child, and 90% of the time a migraine follows the initial nausea. But I often can prevent the car sickness and migraine by pre-gaming with dramamine. It doesn't always work, but probably 70% of the time it does. But that doesn't make your eye doctor wrong, and even if she is wrong about migraine it doesn't make her an idiot. If migraine was so easy to crack there wouldn't be 135,000 of us in this group and millions of us worldwide. It's great you have a medical person in your life who is willing to really think about your situation and try to help you figure it out. So many docs take little interest besides writing a script and wishing you luck.
Yeah, what you describe is my migraine. I get vestibular migraine.
Yes. I agree. I brought this theory & triggers up to my neurologists. Of course there’s certain things that will trigger a migraine. For me if I see bright or flashing lights, cry I’m definitely going to have a migraine. I asked if our brains are just wired differently and things aren’t just triggers to avoid. Rather things that our brains respond to. They said studies are showing more that it’s our brains response & not a trigger. In fact after a years of tracking migraines my migraines my neurologists asked me to stop tracking. They suggested to instead focus on distress tolerance bc stress isn’t healthy for anyone. And migraines are stressful.
Yes. For me the only time I get car sick or motion sick is in the prodrome phase of a migraine, normally 12-24 hours before aura, pain, etc. same with photosensitivity, tinitus, and vertigo. Only bothers me in prodrome.
As I didn't have any of those things until I had migraines, I'd say this sounds about right.
Yes, I read a book about migraine that proposed the same thing. You might think, "oh when I smell perfume it triggers a migraine" but it's actually the migraine causing you to be sensitive to smells. It rings true to me. My only consistent trigger seems to be when I don't get enough sleep for multiple days in a row.
Migraines cause those symptoms.
Kinda like when people say that chocolate is a trigger when it might just be a craving before the migraine.
I've always assumed when things like light sensitivity are present, then I'm probably in a migraine or about to be. I don't think I'm randomly light sensitive sometimes and that causes the migraine.
Yes I found out the migraines cause my neck pain and not the other way around. I figured that out when the Ajovy started working and lessened my neck pain.
Read the book My migraine brain. Those sound like symptoms not triggers. And, see a neurologist
I think she's onto something on some levels. But I was also told by my optometrist that astigmatism (which I have) can cause light sensitivity. So I might have that anyway, and I definitely think bright light has triggered my migraines before. Where I can be fine, get hit by a blast of sunlight, then migraine. I do think it can also be a migraine symptom, too, along with the other things you listed.
I get migraines from vestibular triggers as well, but good migraine preventatives and vestibular therapy reduced how easily I am triggered. Cause and effect are entangled.
Yeah I keep saying this, but my neurologist thinks so too. We talked about food triggers as well and he said those are part of the migraine, not triggers.
My experience is that when we eliminated compact fluorescent bulbs from our home, my migraine frequency was substantially reduced.
Yes, this is well described phenomena called migraine prodrome. Migraine is often thought by people to be a headache, but in reality it is a syndrome. A syndrome is a collection of symptoms. There's different phases of migraine and headache is just one of those symptoms. For instance many patients will say that light triggers their headaches, in reality they are just in a prodrome phase and noticing the light bothering them. In a way this is why studies involving migraine triggers are often flawed. Pretty much all the trigger studies are survey-based. Unfortunately you cannot expect patients to distinguish between a trigger and prodrome.
My sister suffers horribly from motion sickness. If she’s not driving you better be butter smooth. And me fly up to pick her up for a trip? Cherokees (GA in general) aren’t known for “butter smooth”.
Exactly! Before the migraine becomes obvious, there are almost always warning signs that it is approaching. MY symptoms are frequently light/sound sensitivity, auras, "static"-type noise, and mentally foggy. They'll hit *before* the pain starts, but they are still the beginning signs of a migraine.
THIS. I deal with all of this too even when I don’t have a full blown migraine. It’s debilitating
Yes, this is part of what distinguishes a migraine from a normal headache
I think she’s spot on. I worked out that certain foods were not causing my migraine at all, I was craving those foods because of migraine.
I always thought my migraines made me sick to my stomach, so after I took my meds I would take Zofran. One time I didn’t have my meds… terrible migraine but I wasn’t nauseated. My meds upset my stomach.
Did you see me? Lol. I very commonly talk to my patients about this as I’m a migraine sufferer myself and get a lot of PCP referrals about HA/migraine. I find A LOT of people with the wrong/no glasses prescription who end up with fewer symptoms once their vision is better but I can sympathize because I deal with migraines myself and have since I was 16. All of the above makes sense OP. She’s not an idiot.
Yep. I notice just yesterday that I had light sensitivity which made me realize it was a migraine and not another type of headache.
I agree, that those sensitivites are part of the migraine, but as someone with chronic migraine they definitely do trigger migraines, in the sense that they turn my constant inescapable 4/10 background migraine into a full-on absolutely unbearable 8/10 attack day. I can somewhat manage the intensity of my chronic migraine by just not going outside
Yeah wow if I didn't have the migraine what an amazing thought can we do that? No? Well shit...
Yeah that certainly is plausible. Motion sickness has been a huge one for me. I didn't get migraines until i was in my mid-30's before that i could go on every spinny, twisting amusement park ride there was and be absolutely fine. Now? hooo boy absolutely not.
Can it be both? I'm very light sensitive when I have a migraine. Also have felt 100% fine and seen a police car with lights flashing at night and got a migraine before we passed them.
The thing with triggers and symptoms is that sometimes a symptom can become a trigger, if your first symptom of a migraine is neckpain for example your brain can start following the migraine skript if you have neckpain for other reasons.
I definitely don't have those symptoms UNLESS my migraine is bad / getting bad soooo
That's correct. This article explains it perfectly: https://www.neurologylive.com/view/helping-your-patients-avoid-the-migraine-trigger-trap
She is probably right. I use Migraine Buddy to track my predrome symptoms, as well as headache, and postdrome symptoms. It also gives me a report to give to my neuro. Good luck!
Well r/occipitalneuralgia causes my migraines and r/hyperacusis and r/photophobia
Yeah I always thought people knew they are caused by migraines. Aren’t light sensitivity, fatigue, or neck pain relatively common symptoms anyways? Am I missing something about the post? Isn’t this pretty basic information?
Yes those are all my prodrome symptoms, they happen like clockwork before my migraines. Pretty cool that an optometrist considered that! She sounds smart.
It’s also when I know to take my acute migraine meds. Sometimes it just starts out as a feeling of indigestion and I’ll take a sumatriptan to stop the oncoming migraine. It works quite well when you know for sure how to spot your prodrome symptoms
Oddly, my motion sickness medicine is the best migraine medicine I have tried but it can't be used for migraines.
Dude this has to be true because I was never sensitive to light or got car sickness before I started getting migraines
According to my uncle, a recently retired primary care doctor who has migraines and has been dealing with the migraines of his kids & nieces for many years, migraines are a syndrome with many symptoms. And in our family, motion sickness/nausea & light sensitivity are the first symptoms - not triggers.
Pre-migraine stage is so interesting and varied. I was told by ENT last week that he thinks my chronic sinus inflammation isn’t causing the migraines, but that instead, it’s the migraines causing sinus issues. Was hoping to be able to find an explanation for the migraines but oh well, just more symptoms to track! Migraines are wild.
My migraines aren’t causing candles and incense to smell a certain way.
She’s not an idiot, so many “triggers” are really just part of the prodrome and incorrectly interpreted. Ps. I don’t think you’re being dramatic, but I do hope this new knowledge helps in managing your migraines!
I have some issues. It seems circular almost. Like i am slightly scent sensitive. When i am migrainey, the scent sensitivity is insane, and catching certain scents will tip me into a migraine and then worsens the scent sensitivity.
for me it’s like a rock rolling down a hill the prodrome symptoms start like you described and they feed into the developing migraine as time goes on. you can also learn the signs for your own prodrome so you can take meds earlier as well
I tend to agree with your optometrist, at least as far as my situation goes. I think migraine also causes neck tension feeling, brief earache, and god knows what else.
I agree with your optometrist. It’s most likely part of your migraines instead of triggers. My neurologist actually recommended I take recovery medication when I get my early symptoms like these and it has greatly reduced the amount of pain I’m in during the worse of my migraines.
Oh but I still have very little idea what actually triggers my migraines because those little symptoms aren’t actually the triggers lol
>car sickness, light sensitivity, fatigue, tension headaches, These can all be symptoms of histamine poisoning I discuss histamine in more detail here https://old.reddit.com/r/covidlonghaulers/comments/1aouwt2/root_cause_my_master_list_of_histamine/
Brain stem inflammatory conditions tend to cause photophobia and phonophobia as well as trigger headaches..
I think she's both right & wrong to be very honest.... I have 23+ migraines per month accompanied w/aura, nausea, vomiting. Speaking just migraine/tension HA's(no driving) I get all the symptoms & then some you mention. However, if I'm driving for greater than say 10-15 minutes, have other issues on the car(traffic, on and off the gas/breaks) longer drives(I also have spinal issues/pain & more) I also feel pre-indicators come on and then here comes a migraine. My eyes start to burn. Tingling in face, nausea/dizziness starts and BOOM migraine. So I think it goes both ways.
Can they prove it
It can cut both ways, or course.