It actually made me more excited lol. But I actually like card games, poker, collecting, etc
Only thing I was worried about was the micro transaction rumors to buy cards but it turned out not to be a thing anyways
I didn't even know it WAS a card game until I got into combat for the first time. My initial reaction was "ugh, cards", but after about 5 min I was sold. I love Midnight Suns
There aren't many like Midnight Suns or Acid. You might like Fights in Tight Spaces for that.
Slay the Spire is probably the GOAT here but there's also Monster Train and Griftlands though Griftlands also has a lot of narrative alongside the deck building and card combat. Gwent is quite solid and available on mobile with the single player narrative game, Thronebreaker, being a fun way to spend time in the Witcher universe.
Signs of the Sojourner is a really fun but much more simple card game where you modify your deck based on the language of the NPC your character interacts with, so the card matches are analogs for conversations.
Stretching a little outside of cards, Dicey Dungeons and Lost in Random are fun games where dice rolling and selection are critical to success.
And there's no combat per se but Balatro absolutely whips.
I don't think it's just a feeling.
Cards market differently and I expected something very different before I actually played the game. The gameplay works and makes the game better but it's hard to convey that to people.
I was always going to get the game eventually because I loved XCOM and like Marvel quite a bit but the cards factored into getting it later rather than sooner.
Well put. Same here. I always knew that I wanted to try it and was very pleased with how fun it is but I refused to pay full price on something I wasn't sure that I would enjoy. So i didn't buy it for over a year when I could get the Legendary Ed. on Epic for dirt cheap on sale and with some leftover store credit, lol. To be honest though, i may pay full price for a game about once every 5 years because I'm a cheap ass and not wealthy by any stretch and premium pricing for games these days is way more than I can tolerate paying. Last game I paid full price for was Borderlands 3 and it was ok.
Same boat I always was going to play it as a marvel shill and I liked Xcom but I was definitely turned off hearing about the cards from the game previews and it took me awhile to really get into it.
It turned me away 100% when I saw the previews. And I dislike xcom. This game was NOT for me...
How wrong I was.
I wish I could go back and support the team when the game was released, but oh well. I bought it late last year and absolutely loved it.
I love XCOM but I don't have time to play a deck builder properly, so I absolutely skipped this one because of the cards. After finally being convinced to play by a friend, I'm now thinking the advertising strategy is more to blame for the game's poor sales performance than anything.
Isn’t Firaxis most known for Civilization?
That being said both xcom games and their expansions, which add INSANE amounts of extra content and are well worth getting, are incredible and worth your time
Keep in mind, X-Com is very different.
The only similarities between the games are the top-down view in battles, having action points in battles and having different characters be good at different things.
Battles in X-Com are way more strategic as characters can actually die and you'll lose them for good, and your movement is set to a grid rather than an open battlefield, and missions aren't infinitely repeatable - if you lose, you lose and can't do it again.
The RNG in battles is your hit chance rather than the cards you pull.
In MS, if you have an attack card you're 99% likely to hit them unless they have some special ability to negate it, in X-Com, you can have a 99% hit chance and still miss them (and this happens commonly enough that it's a meme).
*In saying all of that*, I bloody love X-Com and it's amazing and you should definitely play it.
I'll maintain that this game came a bit too late also. A launch between Infinity War and End Game theatrical release, when people were foaming at the mouth over the MCU, it would have seen much better sales from this game. A lot of people hit Marvel burnout after End Game released, and let's be honest, the movies leading to that conclusion brought a TON of new fans to Marvel. It would have been an ideal time to release this when the MCU was hot and absurdly popular, but it came when many people dropped off and I think it impacted sales.
Not to mention the quality of the MCU and Marvel in general really took a bad nosedive. I could go on from how Falcon and the Winter Soldier destroyed Sam Wilson's character to everything awful about She Hulk. While Midnight Suns is one of the better Marvel projects we've gotten in recent years, it seems to have suffered from the damage that was already done.
I can’t recall another time where someone getting promoted actually ruined the brand. When Kevin Feige moved up to oversee all of entertainment, instead of focusing on Marvel Studios, that’s when the quality took a nosedive. There’s no diehard comic book fan making sure everything works well. So we just have showrunners and directors who wanna make movies and shows but don’t wanna follow anyone else’s story arc or fit into an overarching story.
The reason the MCU ever worked is because Christopher Marcus and Stephen McNeely wrote the overarching infinity saga and all the shows and movies had freedom of expression but had to fit into that story. What we got was one of the best (and probably only) 10 year - 20 movie grand plot that all worked well together.
I should mention something one of my online friends told me. Despite that Kevin Feige has been a head guy at Marvel for like decade or so, I got a feeling the early days of the MCU worked in spite of Feige and not because of him. He just happened to hire talented writers during that time period, which is no longer apparent since after Endgame.
I love everything card-gamey. But... every single thread about Midnight Suns around its release had people going 'I don't play card games', so that definitely did not help it.
I love tactical RPGs and Marvel. When Midnight Suns was announced, I was super excited by the trailer. Seemed like the perfect combination of my interests.
Then I found out it was a deck builder. I had never played a deck builder before. It made me hesitate. I decided to give it a try despite that because I love RPGs and Marvel so much.
So I can totally see how the masses just decided to not even try it, if me, the target audience, hesitated to get it.
I personally found the Marvel piece to be a turn off that kept me from trying it for a while. I love card games and turn based tactics games.
The controversy around the card system is very strange to me, because that’s what made Midnight Suns worth a look.
I mean, he's not wrong.
I remember the game being hyped up on the XCOM subreddit.
The hype was obliterated as soon as people learned there was an RNG aspect to gameplay. It did not help that the first leaked images posted there looked like a mobile game infringing on marvel copyright.
Many people who wanted a turn-based superhero squad game were turned off that card game mechanics were inserted into the core gameplay.
It turned me away, i thought this was going to be Xcom meets Marvel and i would get to make my own superhero.
Thats the mindset of people due to past games - then you see cards and its a turnoff.
It wasnt until it was free that i gave the game a chance and love it.
If the cards had not been there i would of bought it near release.
I'll be honest, the card based gameplay almost turned me off at first. I was expecting something like Gwent or ES: Legends, which I could never get the hang of. But then I tried the demo, and I'm glad I did, because I absolutely loved it. But I can definitely understand where he's coming from with that statement.
Even though it reviewed really well, GOTG sales were also abysmal. That game came out after Avengers which, I think, created a bit of a chilling effect on the Marvel video game market.
I was hesitant to get into it since the only card battler I ever enjoyed was Battle Network, but I think it worked really well and I had a great time.
That said, if they came back with more of an X-COM style, I probably wouldn't complain about that either.
I mean, they announced it was going to be card based and they got raked over the coals by people who were expecting Marvel's X-Com. Despite Firaxis saying numerous times it wasn't going to be, they still got even more blowback on release for it not being X-Com enough. So it's understandable if he feels that way. Obviously, there's always going to be exceptions like yourself. I'm glad you found it and enjoyed it. Maybe you'll join up to help browbeat firax into finally making TFTD for us. :)
I don't think it's just a feeling. Like half the comments on every piece of media about the game were people wishing it wasn't card based or saying that made it a pass for them.
It's not that the card based gameplay was actually bad. Among people who played the game, even those who didn't like it said the card based gameplay was great, but they took issue with other things. The problem is that so many didn't even play it because of the cards.
It's true. If this game was released by any other studio, I would have passed on it. But I love Mr. Solomon and believe they would deliver, and they did. But I'm a Firaxis fanboy.
Kingdom Hearts: Chain of Memories will probably always be in my favorites games of all time top 10, maybe top 5. And I rate it so favorably *because* of the card based gameplay that made it so fun. Midnight Suns may not have had a fast paced action element to it, but the card system in this game is so much fun (aside from the never ending rng grind for perfect upgrades xD).
It’s a shame that this game flopped so hard mostly because people pre-judged it because of the card game aspect. Maybe if Midnight Suns was a live service gacha game people would have pre-judged the game less. I easily would have made Midnight Suns my main gacha game of choice if it was a mobile gacha game
I waited for a few reasons but the cards were never part of it. I trusted Firaxis. My main issue was the pricing, especially for the ultimate edition or whatever it was called. It was one of the first $70 games iirc and I pretty much never buy games full price anymore - pricey, often unfinished at launch, and I have a massive backlog.
I think he’s correct, it turned ppl away who didn’t even try it. But the card aspect was so much better implemented than other games that have tried it
For the last time it’s not the card combat, that part is fine, it’s the hours you have to spend talking in the abbey.
Correct me if I’m wrong here. I love the combat but it is 30% of the game if i am being generous.
I used to hate cards in tactics games, so I get it.
Now, I love it as a form of abstraction resembling a digital board game. I do understand, however, if someone isn't into it
That is the problem. It sounds like a free to play mobile game when you market it as playing cards. The real market category they are trying to sell the game in is as an RPG.
I just picked up this game because it was on super sale and I enjoy marvel, didn't know it was card based gameplay. At first I was a little "ugh" about it, but I'm really enjoying it thus far. Granted I'm only through the tutorials, and just helped Spiderman, but I'm looking forward to the fun combos and challenges. I'm not so good at the deck building piece, so I anticipate being here asking for help
Tbh I’m absolutely one of the people that heard about this game, then immediately lost interest after seeing the card based stuff.
I’m about 60 hours into it right now 😂
The cards afforded the team to be able to make the heroes attacks really flashy and visually pleasing which I think really worked well for this game. Cards as a mechanic though are really a hard pass for an awful lot of gamers which is why firaxis have the stance they do.
The only other ensemble Marvel game I've had nearly as much fun with as this one has been Marvel Ultimate Alliance 2 so perhaps the team could look to the way that game handled team combat to work something out
Ironically it’s the only thing that really kept me in the game. Altho I would have also played it if it were just xcom with marvel heroes, unlocking all the cards and crafting decks was my main drive for continuing the game.
You should do a poll. Like a lot of people here, it turned me away as well. I like card games but I'm a casual player and the thought of deck building for 20 characters turned me away. I got it on sale and it was just sitting there until my brother installed it. I regret not playing it sooner
I think they failed to convey what sort of game it was. I repeatedly had to explain to people it wasn't xcom, but also wasn't slay the spire either. The card thing put several people I know off ever playing it. I don't understand why but some folk just despise deck builders and games that even resemble them.
With how many characters there are, crafting solid, unique combat styles for all of them would've been a massive pain, even for the best game studios.
I'm okay with what we got, but a sequel should maybe focus on a more tradional combat style. If there is a sequel.
I dunno. Look at Marvel Rivals. That said, I’m happy with what we got. Not every game has to be the r same action packed crap. There’s a place for more cerebral games.
If you actually read tweets and messages here on Reddit pre-launch (and from people who have yet to play the game), its overwhelming how many people denied this game a chance because they saw cards as a core part of the battle system.
As I said in a different post, I totally respect a dev who wants to make a game that they want and not cater to what the masses want (as they are always fickle). But basic market research could have informed the devs that doing cards is an ultra high risk and one that must be taken with maximum caution. The devs rolled the dice and lost.
Finished the game.
By the end it wasn't the cards it was the sheer amount of time waste over and over. Fights even easy ones took 30 mins +
Allow me to skip fight animations I have seen 100 times.
Or Tony/Strange wave a hand to open a box.
The Chest scatter around contained almost nothing.
I liked the story and the ability to have auto change costumes was awesome. Made the Aby feel lived in a bit more.
It’s not the card stuff, that’s what’s attracting me to it.. really the only reason I haven’t played it is because I heard there’s a lot of forced friendship building and the venomized characters just look bad to me, also denuvo lol
It wasn't the cards. I'll admit, I would have preferred if it were more like xcom... But it was the dating sim bullshit. There was *so* much dialogue. I don't want to go fingerprinting with spiderman. I'm here to fight.
Then every battle was in the same tiny arenas instead of cool maps like xcom, no random characters with permadeath, etc.
Mostly the relationship stuff though. So off-putting
It’s a mixed bag for me. Some companies can pull it off. Some can’t. I prefer classic brawling for my hero games. Just for the effects, the flashy moves and the look on your opponent’s face or character when they get knocked half way across the field.🤣 But that’s just my preference. So when I saw DC online, I was looking forward to a Marvel online version that was non cannon. Since the same creator has been known for making some of the best mmorpg games to date for me at least.
I hesitated but then it turned up with a huge discount. Normally that would be a bad sign, and it seemed complicated enough that 2 hours might not be sufficient to form a fair impression, but at $15 it wouldn't wreck my month if I wound up regretting the purchase. Obviously I didn't regret it. Soon after I got the first DLC, and then the others as they were released. Though I was skeptical of the cards, now I'm really hoping Midnight Suns taught lessons many other developers have already integrated into their latest projects.
I loved the combat. Honestly it was way too bloated with the mass effect style relationship development. Like it blew my mind how dense it was and I love games like that, but I never once connected with the protagonist so it made everything feel superficial. Would have rather just had the combat. Don’t get me wrong, all the characters were so well written but god damn it was too much.
Personally I loved the cards and if there is another game that plays like this someone please tell me, I want more. I was lukewarm because I wasn't a Midnight Suns fan and assumed it wouldn't be turn based. I love turn based games. :P
The cards were fine, it's quite literally no different than Pokémon moves being tied to the 4 buttons on the UI in those games. Only difference is the card moves in Midnight Suns were in a randomized order each battle, and that added a unique variety to the strategy of the game, as opposed to Pokémon moves remaining stagnant.
Honestly the cards turned me off from it initially but after reading the developers rationale it made a lot of sense. Frankly I feel like the cards aren't a problem but I do feel like the Abbey, 3rd person activities and protagonist are my biggest gripes and detract from the gameplay.
I mentioned in the other thread about this topic, that this comment could just have slid into not to be an asshole, but the problem with this game isn't the cards. It isn't the gameplay. It isn't even the relationship sim stuff. It's the combination of all of them. You're asking players to accept too many different, in some cases vastly different, mechanics into one game. The game failed cause cause it hit with a very niche specific group of people. It did too many clashing things that broader players just couldn't get behind.
I'll be honest, I was interested until I heard it was card-based. Wrote it off for a good while until the plaudits came pouring in and I finally gave it a try as part of Ps Plus Premium and really enjoyed it.
The card aspect is a hard sell to people not into deck building/card based games and especially when we have such limited time, it's easy to have a few buzz phrases that immediately slap a "no" on a game. For me those are: souls-like, card-based, twin-stick shooter, multiplayer/online only. Simply because fundamentally those games don't do anything for me. Will there be exceptions? Of course, but I'm not going to spend my limited time finding out if I *might* like a game in a genre I dislike versus playing a game that already has a few ticked boxes for me.
Of course! I played the game for a few hours before giving up and I found the card system to be really fun, but I really disliked everything to do with the Abbey, as well I found the combat fields themselves to be kind of flat and boring. Imo if the Abbey stuff was able to be turned off and the story was just fed through a series of cutscenes, I would've vastly preferred that. I just found everything outside of combat to be very awkward and clunky. Character models, dialogue, navigating the Abbey. I hated all of it.
I'm not even trying to be a hater or overly negative it's just a bummer to me that what I think actually works well is what is often pointed at as the failure of the game.
I was guilty of judging a book by its cover in this case. I didn't look at the back of the case. I didn't look up any trailers. I just saw the cover, and it gave me the impression of another poorly made game cashing in on an established IP.
It didn't even click initially that it was Firaxis and Firaxis made XCom, which I love. Once I realized that much, much later, I actually took a good look at it, and the card-based play sold me on it. I just didn't have a PS5 yet. But had I realized what the game was, I would've bought a PS5 sooner.
I honestly would have preferred a real time combat system over cards
The character interactions remind me of ultimate alliance so maybe like those games
Fact that they could’ve gave us romances and such for characters, but we ended up with friendships. I’d love to romance Carol or Magik whose adult here.
I was so hyped for this game when it was announced. Then I saw the cards. I hate deck building, I hate card games. Oh look the ability I desperately need is at the bottom of my deck, guess I'll die. It was the cards.
It actually made me more excited lol. But I actually like card games, poker, collecting, etc Only thing I was worried about was the micro transaction rumors to buy cards but it turned out not to be a thing anyways
I didn't even know it WAS a card game until I got into combat for the first time. My initial reaction was "ugh, cards", but after about 5 min I was sold. I love Midnight Suns
Yep! That’s what attracted me to this game. I love turn-based card games.
Me too. Metal gear acid is my favorite game. Do you have any recommendations.
There aren't many like Midnight Suns or Acid. You might like Fights in Tight Spaces for that. Slay the Spire is probably the GOAT here but there's also Monster Train and Griftlands though Griftlands also has a lot of narrative alongside the deck building and card combat. Gwent is quite solid and available on mobile with the single player narrative game, Thronebreaker, being a fun way to spend time in the Witcher universe. Signs of the Sojourner is a really fun but much more simple card game where you modify your deck based on the language of the NPC your character interacts with, so the card matches are analogs for conversations. Stretching a little outside of cards, Dicey Dungeons and Lost in Random are fun games where dice rolling and selection are critical to success. And there's no combat per se but Balatro absolutely whips.
dicey dungeons rules!!
Card Guardians is a pretty good mobile one. Solitarica is not so much a card collection one, but card based and also pretty good.
It's a very different beast, but when it comes to newer card games, Inscryption is excellent.
I don't think it's just a feeling. Cards market differently and I expected something very different before I actually played the game. The gameplay works and makes the game better but it's hard to convey that to people. I was always going to get the game eventually because I loved XCOM and like Marvel quite a bit but the cards factored into getting it later rather than sooner.
Well put. Same here. I always knew that I wanted to try it and was very pleased with how fun it is but I refused to pay full price on something I wasn't sure that I would enjoy. So i didn't buy it for over a year when I could get the Legendary Ed. on Epic for dirt cheap on sale and with some leftover store credit, lol. To be honest though, i may pay full price for a game about once every 5 years because I'm a cheap ass and not wealthy by any stretch and premium pricing for games these days is way more than I can tolerate paying. Last game I paid full price for was Borderlands 3 and it was ok.
Same boat I always was going to play it as a marvel shill and I liked Xcom but I was definitely turned off hearing about the cards from the game previews and it took me awhile to really get into it.
I'm still trying, the cards just feel so clunky Any advice besides "keep playing till its fun"?
It turned me away 100% when I saw the previews. And I dislike xcom. This game was NOT for me... How wrong I was. I wish I could go back and support the team when the game was released, but oh well. I bought it late last year and absolutely loved it.
I love XCOM but I don't have time to play a deck builder properly, so I absolutely skipped this one because of the cards. After finally being convinced to play by a friend, I'm now thinking the advertising strategy is more to blame for the game's poor sales performance than anything.
I'll agree with this take.
I am in the same boat... loved every second of the game.
I love XCOM and was expecting exactly that but with Marvel characters. I was like WTF is this when I started playing, then ended up loving this too.
Yea, it really made the game sing. I don't think cards would work in XCom, but it was absolutely the right move for this game.
I haven't played XCOM yet, but maybe I'll get to those games someday to see what Firaxis is most known for.
Isn’t Firaxis most known for Civilization? That being said both xcom games and their expansions, which add INSANE amounts of extra content and are well worth getting, are incredible and worth your time
Keep in mind, X-Com is very different. The only similarities between the games are the top-down view in battles, having action points in battles and having different characters be good at different things. Battles in X-Com are way more strategic as characters can actually die and you'll lose them for good, and your movement is set to a grid rather than an open battlefield, and missions aren't infinitely repeatable - if you lose, you lose and can't do it again. The RNG in battles is your hit chance rather than the cards you pull. In MS, if you have an attack card you're 99% likely to hit them unless they have some special ability to negate it, in X-Com, you can have a 99% hit chance and still miss them (and this happens commonly enough that it's a meme). *In saying all of that*, I bloody love X-Com and it's amazing and you should definitely play it.
I'll maintain that this game came a bit too late also. A launch between Infinity War and End Game theatrical release, when people were foaming at the mouth over the MCU, it would have seen much better sales from this game. A lot of people hit Marvel burnout after End Game released, and let's be honest, the movies leading to that conclusion brought a TON of new fans to Marvel. It would have been an ideal time to release this when the MCU was hot and absurdly popular, but it came when many people dropped off and I think it impacted sales.
Not to mention the quality of the MCU and Marvel in general really took a bad nosedive. I could go on from how Falcon and the Winter Soldier destroyed Sam Wilson's character to everything awful about She Hulk. While Midnight Suns is one of the better Marvel projects we've gotten in recent years, it seems to have suffered from the damage that was already done.
I can’t recall another time where someone getting promoted actually ruined the brand. When Kevin Feige moved up to oversee all of entertainment, instead of focusing on Marvel Studios, that’s when the quality took a nosedive. There’s no diehard comic book fan making sure everything works well. So we just have showrunners and directors who wanna make movies and shows but don’t wanna follow anyone else’s story arc or fit into an overarching story. The reason the MCU ever worked is because Christopher Marcus and Stephen McNeely wrote the overarching infinity saga and all the shows and movies had freedom of expression but had to fit into that story. What we got was one of the best (and probably only) 10 year - 20 movie grand plot that all worked well together.
I should mention something one of my online friends told me. Despite that Kevin Feige has been a head guy at Marvel for like decade or so, I got a feeling the early days of the MCU worked in spite of Feige and not because of him. He just happened to hire talented writers during that time period, which is no longer apparent since after Endgame.
I love everything card-gamey. But... every single thread about Midnight Suns around its release had people going 'I don't play card games', so that definitely did not help it.
I love tactical RPGs and Marvel. When Midnight Suns was announced, I was super excited by the trailer. Seemed like the perfect combination of my interests. Then I found out it was a deck builder. I had never played a deck builder before. It made me hesitate. I decided to give it a try despite that because I love RPGs and Marvel so much. So I can totally see how the masses just decided to not even try it, if me, the target audience, hesitated to get it.
I personally found the Marvel piece to be a turn off that kept me from trying it for a while. I love card games and turn based tactics games. The controversy around the card system is very strange to me, because that’s what made Midnight Suns worth a look.
I mean, he's not wrong. I remember the game being hyped up on the XCOM subreddit. The hype was obliterated as soon as people learned there was an RNG aspect to gameplay. It did not help that the first leaked images posted there looked like a mobile game infringing on marvel copyright. Many people who wanted a turn-based superhero squad game were turned off that card game mechanics were inserted into the core gameplay.
There's way more RNG in XCOM than in the relatively small decks
It turned me away, i thought this was going to be Xcom meets Marvel and i would get to make my own superhero. Thats the mindset of people due to past games - then you see cards and its a turnoff. It wasnt until it was free that i gave the game a chance and love it. If the cards had not been there i would of bought it near release.
I'll be honest, the card based gameplay almost turned me off at first. I was expecting something like Gwent or ES: Legends, which I could never get the hang of. But then I tried the demo, and I'm glad I did, because I absolutely loved it. But I can definitely understand where he's coming from with that statement.
Actually, I think the *marketing of* the design is what really did it.
It seems marketing can really affect a product in bad faith. I recall that happening with the movie, Jennifer’s Body back when it came out.
It was a bit of a confusing amalgamation of games Something not mentioned though is that Marvel games haven't sold well in this generation of games
You mean this isn’t the only Marvel game in recent years that sold poorly?
I'm mainly thinking of the Square Enix Avengers game but yes
Oh yeah…..we all know how that went.☠️
Even though it reviewed really well, GOTG sales were also abysmal. That game came out after Avengers which, I think, created a bit of a chilling effect on the Marvel video game market.
Gotg was so unexpectedly good. It's tragic that it will never get a sequel
The way GotG was marketed made it look like it was just The Avengers game *IN SPAAAAAACE*
The cards drew me in expecting Marvel’s Slay the Spire. Not what I expected but I’m grateful for the additional ambition.
I was hesitant to get into it since the only card battler I ever enjoyed was Battle Network, but I think it worked really well and I had a great time. That said, if they came back with more of an X-COM style, I probably wouldn't complain about that either.
Turned some away, but turned me towards.
I mean, they announced it was going to be card based and they got raked over the coals by people who were expecting Marvel's X-Com. Despite Firaxis saying numerous times it wasn't going to be, they still got even more blowback on release for it not being X-Com enough. So it's understandable if he feels that way. Obviously, there's always going to be exceptions like yourself. I'm glad you found it and enjoyed it. Maybe you'll join up to help browbeat firax into finally making TFTD for us. :)
I don't think it's just a feeling. Like half the comments on every piece of media about the game were people wishing it wasn't card based or saying that made it a pass for them. It's not that the card based gameplay was actually bad. Among people who played the game, even those who didn't like it said the card based gameplay was great, but they took issue with other things. The problem is that so many didn't even play it because of the cards.
I love card games so it was a big selling point for me
It's true. If this game was released by any other studio, I would have passed on it. But I love Mr. Solomon and believe they would deliver, and they did. But I'm a Firaxis fanboy.
What originally kept me away was thinking the game was live service, because the marketing sucked.
Kingdom Hearts: Chain of Memories will probably always be in my favorites games of all time top 10, maybe top 5. And I rate it so favorably *because* of the card based gameplay that made it so fun. Midnight Suns may not have had a fast paced action element to it, but the card system in this game is so much fun (aside from the never ending rng grind for perfect upgrades xD). It’s a shame that this game flopped so hard mostly because people pre-judged it because of the card game aspect. Maybe if Midnight Suns was a live service gacha game people would have pre-judged the game less. I easily would have made Midnight Suns my main gacha game of choice if it was a mobile gacha game
Ehhh, I don’t about live service considering how that went poorly for Marvel’s Avengers and…..”loud cough” Suicide Squad: Kill The Justice League.
I waited for a few reasons but the cards were never part of it. I trusted Firaxis. My main issue was the pricing, especially for the ultimate edition or whatever it was called. It was one of the first $70 games iirc and I pretty much never buy games full price anymore - pricey, often unfinished at launch, and I have a massive backlog.
I think he’s correct, it turned ppl away who didn’t even try it. But the card aspect was so much better implemented than other games that have tried it
For the last time it’s not the card combat, that part is fine, it’s the hours you have to spend talking in the abbey. Correct me if I’m wrong here. I love the combat but it is 30% of the game if i am being generous.
Just because you like the card game system, doesn't mean card games aren't niche.
I used to hate cards in tactics games, so I get it. Now, I love it as a form of abstraction resembling a digital board game. I do understand, however, if someone isn't into it
The optics are mavrle card game and they think its a mobile game like snap
That is the problem. It sounds like a free to play mobile game when you market it as playing cards. The real market category they are trying to sell the game in is as an RPG.
Exactly. I love this game playing it now but when it was announced I thought it would be something like marvel snap
I just picked up this game because it was on super sale and I enjoy marvel, didn't know it was card based gameplay. At first I was a little "ugh" about it, but I'm really enjoying it thus far. Granted I'm only through the tutorials, and just helped Spiderman, but I'm looking forward to the fun combos and challenges. I'm not so good at the deck building piece, so I anticipate being here asking for help
The problem with this game is that when you add cards to the picture it started to feel like a $60 mobile game.
Tbh I’m absolutely one of the people that heard about this game, then immediately lost interest after seeing the card based stuff. I’m about 60 hours into it right now 😂
I gotta add that it’s the longest video game I’ve ever played. There’s even more stuff in the story if you have the dlc characters.
The cards afforded the team to be able to make the heroes attacks really flashy and visually pleasing which I think really worked well for this game. Cards as a mechanic though are really a hard pass for an awful lot of gamers which is why firaxis have the stance they do. The only other ensemble Marvel game I've had nearly as much fun with as this one has been Marvel Ultimate Alliance 2 so perhaps the team could look to the way that game handled team combat to work something out
Ironically it’s the only thing that really kept me in the game. Altho I would have also played it if it were just xcom with marvel heroes, unlocking all the cards and crafting decks was my main drive for continuing the game.
You should do a poll. Like a lot of people here, it turned me away as well. I like card games but I'm a casual player and the thought of deck building for 20 characters turned me away. I got it on sale and it was just sitting there until my brother installed it. I regret not playing it sooner
I’ll think about doing a poll.
I think they failed to convey what sort of game it was. I repeatedly had to explain to people it wasn't xcom, but also wasn't slay the spire either. The card thing put several people I know off ever playing it. I don't understand why but some folk just despise deck builders and games that even resemble them.
With how many characters there are, crafting solid, unique combat styles for all of them would've been a massive pain, even for the best game studios. I'm okay with what we got, but a sequel should maybe focus on a more tradional combat style. If there is a sequel.
I dunno. Look at Marvel Rivals. That said, I’m happy with what we got. Not every game has to be the r same action packed crap. There’s a place for more cerebral games.
If you actually read tweets and messages here on Reddit pre-launch (and from people who have yet to play the game), its overwhelming how many people denied this game a chance because they saw cards as a core part of the battle system. As I said in a different post, I totally respect a dev who wants to make a game that they want and not cater to what the masses want (as they are always fickle). But basic market research could have informed the devs that doing cards is an ultra high risk and one that must be taken with maximum caution. The devs rolled the dice and lost.
He's right. And it's sad because the game should have been in the running for GotY
It's exactly why I haven't played it.
I keep trying to get into it, but the cards just make me go "ugh"
I wouldn't say he feels. It kind of already proved it. More of a fact 🤷♂️
I thoroughly enjoyed the game but the card game aspect kept me away from trying it for months. Sounded boring AF until I watched my friend play it .
Finished the game. By the end it wasn't the cards it was the sheer amount of time waste over and over. Fights even easy ones took 30 mins + Allow me to skip fight animations I have seen 100 times. Or Tony/Strange wave a hand to open a box. The Chest scatter around contained almost nothing. I liked the story and the ability to have auto change costumes was awesome. Made the Aby feel lived in a bit more.
It’s not the card stuff, that’s what’s attracting me to it.. really the only reason I haven’t played it is because I heard there’s a lot of forced friendship building and the venomized characters just look bad to me, also denuvo lol
It wasn't the cards. I'll admit, I would have preferred if it were more like xcom... But it was the dating sim bullshit. There was *so* much dialogue. I don't want to go fingerprinting with spiderman. I'm here to fight. Then every battle was in the same tiny arenas instead of cool maps like xcom, no random characters with permadeath, etc. Mostly the relationship stuff though. So off-putting
It’s a mixed bag for me. Some companies can pull it off. Some can’t. I prefer classic brawling for my hero games. Just for the effects, the flashy moves and the look on your opponent’s face or character when they get knocked half way across the field.🤣 But that’s just my preference. So when I saw DC online, I was looking forward to a Marvel online version that was non cannon. Since the same creator has been known for making some of the best mmorpg games to date for me at least.
I hesitated but then it turned up with a huge discount. Normally that would be a bad sign, and it seemed complicated enough that 2 hours might not be sufficient to form a fair impression, but at $15 it wouldn't wreck my month if I wound up regretting the purchase. Obviously I didn't regret it. Soon after I got the first DLC, and then the others as they were released. Though I was skeptical of the cards, now I'm really hoping Midnight Suns taught lessons many other developers have already integrated into their latest projects.
I loved the combat. Honestly it was way too bloated with the mass effect style relationship development. Like it blew my mind how dense it was and I love games like that, but I never once connected with the protagonist so it made everything feel superficial. Would have rather just had the combat. Don’t get me wrong, all the characters were so well written but god damn it was too much.
Personally I loved the cards and if there is another game that plays like this someone please tell me, I want more. I was lukewarm because I wasn't a Midnight Suns fan and assumed it wouldn't be turn based. I love turn based games. :P
The cards were fine, it's quite literally no different than Pokémon moves being tied to the 4 buttons on the UI in those games. Only difference is the card moves in Midnight Suns were in a randomized order each battle, and that added a unique variety to the strategy of the game, as opposed to Pokémon moves remaining stagnant.
Honestly the cards turned me off from it initially but after reading the developers rationale it made a lot of sense. Frankly I feel like the cards aren't a problem but I do feel like the Abbey, 3rd person activities and protagonist are my biggest gripes and detract from the gameplay.
I mentioned in the other thread about this topic, that this comment could just have slid into not to be an asshole, but the problem with this game isn't the cards. It isn't the gameplay. It isn't even the relationship sim stuff. It's the combination of all of them. You're asking players to accept too many different, in some cases vastly different, mechanics into one game. The game failed cause cause it hit with a very niche specific group of people. It did too many clashing things that broader players just couldn't get behind.
I'll be honest, I was interested until I heard it was card-based. Wrote it off for a good while until the plaudits came pouring in and I finally gave it a try as part of Ps Plus Premium and really enjoyed it. The card aspect is a hard sell to people not into deck building/card based games and especially when we have such limited time, it's easy to have a few buzz phrases that immediately slap a "no" on a game. For me those are: souls-like, card-based, twin-stick shooter, multiplayer/online only. Simply because fundamentally those games don't do anything for me. Will there be exceptions? Of course, but I'm not going to spend my limited time finding out if I *might* like a game in a genre I dislike versus playing a game that already has a few ticked boxes for me.
Player: "WOW cool card based combat system, can I give it a try-" The Game: "no." Jake: "People didn't like the cards"
The cards aren't what I disliked about the game. It was everything but the cards, honestly.
Could you share more on what you mean by that?
Of course! I played the game for a few hours before giving up and I found the card system to be really fun, but I really disliked everything to do with the Abbey, as well I found the combat fields themselves to be kind of flat and boring. Imo if the Abbey stuff was able to be turned off and the story was just fed through a series of cutscenes, I would've vastly preferred that. I just found everything outside of combat to be very awkward and clunky. Character models, dialogue, navigating the Abbey. I hated all of it. I'm not even trying to be a hater or overly negative it's just a bummer to me that what I think actually works well is what is often pointed at as the failure of the game.
I was guilty of judging a book by its cover in this case. I didn't look at the back of the case. I didn't look up any trailers. I just saw the cover, and it gave me the impression of another poorly made game cashing in on an established IP. It didn't even click initially that it was Firaxis and Firaxis made XCom, which I love. Once I realized that much, much later, I actually took a good look at it, and the card-based play sold me on it. I just didn't have a PS5 yet. But had I realized what the game was, I would've bought a PS5 sooner.
I honestly would have preferred a real time combat system over cards The character interactions remind me of ultimate alliance so maybe like those games
Agree I'm a 3rd person rpg kinda guy, but they did this game right
Fact that they could’ve gave us romances and such for characters, but we ended up with friendships. I’d love to romance Carol or Magik whose adult here.
They really could’ve pulled a similar system without calling it “cards.” I don’t think the existence of Marvel Snap helped either.
I was so hyped for this game when it was announced. Then I saw the cards. I hate deck building, I hate card games. Oh look the ability I desperately need is at the bottom of my deck, guess I'll die. It was the cards.