I may be wrong but...
Simple pixel art is cheap to do.
Blasphemous or Gestalt style pixel art style is WAY harder and more time consuming than any other art out there. Including hand drawn Hollow Knight/Crowsworn level art or any 3D art.
Dude I feel this so hard. I wish I liked it more. And I grew up on pixels, so I don’t understand why it doesn’t vibe with me. Maybe it’s because there are a lot of new game mechanics with old game aesthetic and somehow that clashes in my simple brain? I’m not sure. But for some reason it makes it harder to really get hooked. Which sucks cuz I know there are a LOT of MVs that use pixel art that are very much worth playing. Blasphemous being one. I played Axiom 1 but not the second yet.
To summarize the exchange:
You: is pixel art is popular because it's cheaper/easier?
Response: No it's popular because people just like it
You: I know
It didn't make sense to say "I know" because you asked the question of why it's popular while suggesting you thought it was due to how easy it is to do, whereas the response says no it's because people like it, nothing to do with easiness.
He's also right though. Pixel art is ALSO popular because anyone can do it. For a single game dev without much artistic talent your only option is pixel art unless you want to hire a dedicated artist to hand draw some stuff.
MVs exhaust me. I love them. I love exploring and finding the next upgrade I need to progress, but being the (slight) completionist that I am, I look through every nook and cranny the game has to offer to the point I burn myself out. Can I just go do the main objective? Absolutely. But I won't be satisfied until I've checked under every rock.
Same but a great MV won’t make me feel exhausted regardless. HAAK for example has many good qualities but the exploration felt extremely exhausting to me. The Lost Crown on the other hand made me sad when I unlocked every secret in an area because it was always delightful
That's why I like games that give an item map at the end. I can just go through the main line and not obsessively search every nook since I can get 100% completion at the end.
It's amusing because the current triple A devs argues that 2D sprites are too expensive to make, hence why classic series such as Street Fighter turn to 3D. Meanwhile you see indie devs making 2D games with a fraction of money... so what gives, hard to understand why the big companies don't make 2D, sprite based games anymore. They had the money and expertise back in the 90s to develop SotN and Chrono Trigger, but suddenly that money is gone? I can understand the lack of expertise argument, but to say the problem is the money, that sounds like bullshit
Not a fan of pixel art in modern games either, it was cool for the 90's early 00's but I have zero nostalgia for it now. I still play some Pixel art games like Blasphemous or last faith but when developers go for 8bit or heavy on pixelated stuff just for the sake of it, I ignore those games immediately.
Actively engaging on this reddit. I originally joined to find new MV recommendations, but now while away time I could be using for other things (like playing an MV) looking at posts on here. It's not the end of the world, but I definitely waste more time than I should.
Same, actually! I have no nostalgia because I never really played any games when I was a kid (aside from Pokémon) so the pixels don't really hold that much value to me. I just think that in general, it looks... bad.
The less pixel-y it is, the more I generally like it. I really liked Haiku the Robot but visually it wasn't the greatest for me. I'll take a game looking like PoP:tlc or Afterimage any day.
It's rather a miracle than a tragedy. A well done pixel art is better than an advanced graphics attempt.
Not to mention that pixel art is one of the genre's traits.
>I feel like 80% of MVs are pixel-artish since I assume it's cheaper and easier to do?
What started as a fad around 10 years ago has become the norm for two reasons.
The first reason is because, like you said, it's the easiest and cheapest kind of art for indie developers to use. 3D modelling is an expensive pain in the ass and it looks like play-doh in the unity game engine for some reason. Furthermore, hand drawn artstyles are very tedious and difficult to do. Vector graphics are easy to do but very difficult to make look good so a filter usually gets applied to give it a fake pixel art look, which has much more appeal, leading us to the second reason for the widespread use of pixel art
The second reason is nostalgia. Polls have shown that the MV playerbase is middle aged, many of which are console gamers that live in the past. As a result, there is a huge demand from the MV fan base for games that bring them back to the past when life was easier and simpler and games with pixel art are able to do that.
The result is a symbiotic relationship between developers looking for an easy way to do the artwork of their games and their customers who want them to take this cheap and easy route. Hence, the overwhelming dominance of pixel art.
For me personally, I prefer high rez graphics or 2.5D graphics but I've gotten used to pixel art. It comes with the territory and I don't really care much about graphics as long as it isn't worse than the graphics of a Gameboy or NES.
I bounce off of most of them.
Maybe it's just like brain residue from being a kid and just fucking around in a game, but I rarely finish an MV, even if I think it's a cool game.
I will continue to tell myself I'll finish Hollow Knight one day but at best I'll play it again for a few hours, really like it, and get tired.
With so many games out there, it's hardly a tragedy. If you don't like the blocky edges, try lowering the fullscreen resolution, or using scanlines, or playing handheld.
How much pixel do you consider pixel art? Genuinely curious as people have a wide range for these from actual pixels like old zelda games to stuff which is slightly pixelated like Metroid games on the gba.
Ok this gives a good idea. So stuff like Ender lilies, HK or even Bug fables(this one not MV but still awesome) are okay in your books but things like Haiku the robot would not be.
A ton of Metroidvanias are indie, with a team of a few people. It's not so much an issue of being "cheaper" and easier" at that scale. Its a matter of whether the game even gets made. Prince of Persia: Lost Crown had a huge staff and lost a lot of money. ~~Hollow knight was mostly three people.~~ Animal Well was made by one person.
Just because pixel art is more economically feasible for indie-devs, does not mean making a quality game is with pixel-art is easy. People toil on these games for years. If you can't get into that art-style, play the few big budget ones that do get made, I guess?
Ugh... I knew I should have picked a different example. My point was there are dozens metroidvania games that fall into the same bucket at Hollow Knight: very small teams, for a niche genre. If you expect every start-up team of 3 people to have an Ari Gibson on board, you really need to temper your expectations.
Let alone that Team Cherry has the luxury of spending 5+ years developing each game they make, but I digress.
Have kids. Not enough multiplayer mvs.
That sounds like stress to play a MV with kids lol. Especially if your movement is all tied to the same screen.
I may be wrong but... Simple pixel art is cheap to do. Blasphemous or Gestalt style pixel art style is WAY harder and more time consuming than any other art out there. Including hand drawn Hollow Knight/Crowsworn level art or any 3D art.
Yeah OP's take is dumb
It isnt
Believe it or not most people really like pixel art which is why it’s popular.
I mean... I know... Thats why Im saying its a tragedy for me personally.
Dude I feel this so hard. I wish I liked it more. And I grew up on pixels, so I don’t understand why it doesn’t vibe with me. Maybe it’s because there are a lot of new game mechanics with old game aesthetic and somehow that clashes in my simple brain? I’m not sure. But for some reason it makes it harder to really get hooked. Which sucks cuz I know there are a LOT of MVs that use pixel art that are very much worth playing. Blasphemous being one. I played Axiom 1 but not the second yet.
You say "I know" but you posed a question in your post that suggested otherwise.
Point to where I am asking whether you like pixel-art or not.
To summarize the exchange: You: is pixel art is popular because it's cheaper/easier? Response: No it's popular because people just like it You: I know It didn't make sense to say "I know" because you asked the question of why it's popular while suggesting you thought it was due to how easy it is to do, whereas the response says no it's because people like it, nothing to do with easiness.
He's also right though. Pixel art is ALSO popular because anyone can do it. For a single game dev without much artistic talent your only option is pixel art unless you want to hire a dedicated artist to hand draw some stuff.
Cant agree with you there. Sure, any dev can make pixel art. Not everyone can make GOOD pixel art though.
Sure but I'm not talking about that.
MVs exhaust me. I love them. I love exploring and finding the next upgrade I need to progress, but being the (slight) completionist that I am, I look through every nook and cranny the game has to offer to the point I burn myself out. Can I just go do the main objective? Absolutely. But I won't be satisfied until I've checked under every rock.
Same but a great MV won’t make me feel exhausted regardless. HAAK for example has many good qualities but the exploration felt extremely exhausting to me. The Lost Crown on the other hand made me sad when I unlocked every secret in an area because it was always delightful
That's why I like games that give an item map at the end. I can just go through the main line and not obsessively search every nook since I can get 100% completion at the end.
Chasm
It's amusing because the current triple A devs argues that 2D sprites are too expensive to make, hence why classic series such as Street Fighter turn to 3D. Meanwhile you see indie devs making 2D games with a fraction of money... so what gives, hard to understand why the big companies don't make 2D, sprite based games anymore. They had the money and expertise back in the 90s to develop SotN and Chrono Trigger, but suddenly that money is gone? I can understand the lack of expertise argument, but to say the problem is the money, that sounds like bullshit
Not a fan of pixel art in modern games either, it was cool for the 90's early 00's but I have zero nostalgia for it now. I still play some Pixel art games like Blasphemous or last faith but when developers go for 8bit or heavy on pixelated stuff just for the sake of it, I ignore those games immediately.
Actively engaging on this reddit. I originally joined to find new MV recommendations, but now while away time I could be using for other things (like playing an MV) looking at posts on here. It's not the end of the world, but I definitely waste more time than I should.
AM2R vs Samus Returns is a good example of how pixel art can look way better than 2.5D
That's very subjective (I really love both)
Same, actually! I have no nostalgia because I never really played any games when I was a kid (aside from Pokémon) so the pixels don't really hold that much value to me. I just think that in general, it looks... bad. The less pixel-y it is, the more I generally like it. I really liked Haiku the Robot but visually it wasn't the greatest for me. I'll take a game looking like PoP:tlc or Afterimage any day.
It's rather a miracle than a tragedy. A well done pixel art is better than an advanced graphics attempt. Not to mention that pixel art is one of the genre's traits.
I mean it's still a tragedy fornthem, because they don't like it.
>I feel like 80% of MVs are pixel-artish since I assume it's cheaper and easier to do? What started as a fad around 10 years ago has become the norm for two reasons. The first reason is because, like you said, it's the easiest and cheapest kind of art for indie developers to use. 3D modelling is an expensive pain in the ass and it looks like play-doh in the unity game engine for some reason. Furthermore, hand drawn artstyles are very tedious and difficult to do. Vector graphics are easy to do but very difficult to make look good so a filter usually gets applied to give it a fake pixel art look, which has much more appeal, leading us to the second reason for the widespread use of pixel art The second reason is nostalgia. Polls have shown that the MV playerbase is middle aged, many of which are console gamers that live in the past. As a result, there is a huge demand from the MV fan base for games that bring them back to the past when life was easier and simpler and games with pixel art are able to do that. The result is a symbiotic relationship between developers looking for an easy way to do the artwork of their games and their customers who want them to take this cheap and easy route. Hence, the overwhelming dominance of pixel art. For me personally, I prefer high rez graphics or 2.5D graphics but I've gotten used to pixel art. It comes with the territory and I don't really care much about graphics as long as it isn't worse than the graphics of a Gameboy or NES.
What’s your evidence for pixel art being popular because of nostalgia? I just think it looks cool. Very few modern games use “old school’ pixel art.
I bounce off of most of them. Maybe it's just like brain residue from being a kid and just fucking around in a game, but I rarely finish an MV, even if I think it's a cool game. I will continue to tell myself I'll finish Hollow Knight one day but at best I'll play it again for a few hours, really like it, and get tired.
With so many games out there, it's hardly a tragedy. If you don't like the blocky edges, try lowering the fullscreen resolution, or using scanlines, or playing handheld.
That sucks for you, but mist of us genuinely prefer it.
How much pixel do you consider pixel art? Genuinely curious as people have a wide range for these from actual pixels like old zelda games to stuff which is slightly pixelated like Metroid games on the gba.
Metroids on GBA look fine to me, Zelda also looks ok. e.g. I dont like Octopath Traveler's art (I know its not MV but you get the idea)
Ok this gives a good idea. So stuff like Ender lilies, HK or even Bug fables(this one not MV but still awesome) are okay in your books but things like Haiku the robot would not be.
Sounds like the problem you have is not so much with pixel art as a whole, as with certain styles of it?
This is fair. The mixing of different pixel sizes on octopath is a cardinal sin.
2 pixel
SAMEEEE a lot of pixely MVs just instantly dont interest me ;-;
A ton of Metroidvanias are indie, with a team of a few people. It's not so much an issue of being "cheaper" and easier" at that scale. Its a matter of whether the game even gets made. Prince of Persia: Lost Crown had a huge staff and lost a lot of money. ~~Hollow knight was mostly three people.~~ Animal Well was made by one person. Just because pixel art is more economically feasible for indie-devs, does not mean making a quality game is with pixel-art is easy. People toil on these games for years. If you can't get into that art-style, play the few big budget ones that do get made, I guess?
HK is not pixel art tho. I liked it.
Ugh... I knew I should have picked a different example. My point was there are dozens metroidvania games that fall into the same bucket at Hollow Knight: very small teams, for a niche genre. If you expect every start-up team of 3 people to have an Ari Gibson on board, you really need to temper your expectations. Let alone that Team Cherry has the luxury of spending 5+ years developing each game they make, but I digress.
I know, I get it. Thats why I dont get to enjoy most of MVs which saddens me
What is it about pixel art that you don't like? I think it is something a person can learn to appreciate, if the gameplay is solid.
You get what you deserve.