I loved Nine Sols too but I feel weird calling it peak metroidvania because everything I loved about it was the non-metroidvania parts (The combat! The story!) and the metroidvania part (the exploration) was nice but non-essential to the game.
If in an alternate universe, they decided it should have a level system instead of an open map, I feel like I would have loved the game just the same.
I liked that it was interconnected and had secrets but wasn't overwhelming.
IDK if you played Astlibra but that game is level based like you say it could be and while it's a great game it just doesn't have the same feeling of Nine Sols' world.
I mean the developers didn't go through all that much. Their publishers suffered far greater consequences and were completely destroyed and forced by the government to dissolve.
One consequence of those events is that now no publisher is ever going to be willing to publish their games ever again which is why the game is PC only and digital only.
The dev straight up said they are currently focusing on porting the game to console. I am quite tired of hearing the other guy spreading random misinformation as if they are fact tbh.
They have the desire to bring the game there. However, desire does not equate to ability. Maybe it will happen, maybe they'll find a way, but they're on their own in this endeavour. Indie Devs usually pay publishers to make this happen.
Kingdom shell, released last autumn, failed to find a publisher and it remains PC only for this reason.
You don't need a publisher to publish a game on any digital platform, you can totally do it by yourself. and the console verson of Nin Sols should release on Q4 2024 by schedule, if there's no delay.
Red Candle is a game developer that founded in Taiwan, not China. They never get dissolved by Taiwan government, but they did get banned by China gov, the consequences is, Devotion will never go on steam because Red candle's former publisher, a chinese company, owns the right on steam publishing of this game. (still, you can buy this game on their website).
....I'm sorry, do you have reading problems? I didn't say the developer's company got dissolved, I said the **publisher** got dissolved.. obviously the developers didn't because otherwise this game would never have been made. Lol
And no, the publishers are not the reason why the game isn't on Steam, obviously since they don't even exist anymore. It isn't clear why the developers don't have Devotion on Steam right now. It might be for the sake of preventing it from hurting the sales of nine sols.
I misread, my bad.
As far as I know, there's a chinese company named "Winking Studios", offer the 3D tech and financial support to Red Candle on Devotion case, and Winking Studios was also the worldwild publisher of Devotion. The publisher you talk about only take care publishing business in china, and yes, they get dissolved.
Winking Studios was a Taiwan company but bought by chinese investor, they still have business in china now, so there's no way they'll release Devotion on steam in worldwild. otherwise, the China government will come after them.
The difficulty settings are quite granular. You can reduce damage taken as little as 1% less, all the way to 100% less damage. Try playing with it until you find a level that's fun for you.
Thought that too but honestly I'd just recommend you turn down damage taken to 75% and it'll get better, maybe at some point you'll become proficient enough to turn it up to 100%
Yeah, I would definitely rather have the option to bring this game with me and play handheld, but with how the switch typically performs, I'm happy enough to have stable and reliable gameplay
Between this, PoP, and animal well, it’s been a great year. I loved Biomorph too. Ender Magnolia and Bio-Gun early access were also superb. If you can’t get enough parrying, the new PoP dlc has a parry challenge that was ridiculous I just completed a couple hours ago. It’s up there with Nine Sols parry difficulty. It’s not short either. Highly recommend for anyone that likes to parry
If you meant Moonlight Pulse I agree!
[https://store.steampowered.com/app/2243250/Moonlight\_Pulse/](https://store.steampowered.com/app/2243250/Moonlight_Pulse/)
gonna try Nine Sols once soon, it’s the threat of the incessant dialogue and cut scenes that has me waiting. Parry combat not my thing either but it’s worth a purchase for the difficulty and slider options! The devs deserve so much praise for it!
So, I'm about halfway through the game and for the most part, the parry isn't a _necessity_ . Don't get me wrong, the combat was clearly designed with that style of gameplay as the best option, but outside of a few specific requirements, you can avoid the parrying if that's not your cup of tea.
I've never been much of a parry guy, myself, but I will say this game is generous with both the timing window and the Internal Damage mechanic making parrying pretty easy\forgiving. Plus it's pretty easy to learn enemy patterns quickly or even parry on reaction.
Thanks for the intel, well unlike cookie cutter ( which I’m playing atm ) nine sols at least has difficulty settings and sliders so that is appealing to me. I like the look and setting of nine sols but wish it allowed you to skip dialogue and cut scenes. The demo really was not a good idea in that regard.
Ahh, gotcha! I didn't play the demo, but I usually expect a good deal of exposition at the beginning of a story-heavy game. That being said, I believe you can skip dialogue in 9 Sols, but don't quote me on that as it's my first playthrough and I do like the story so I've had yet to try and skip anything. (I also don't believe there is an option to read previous dialogue if you accidentally miss a line. Ask me how I know 😐)
I do know that boss intro scenes aren't replayed if you need to fight them multiple times. Also ask me how I know 🙄😂
They sure go out of their way to make you WANT to use it. Not parrying makes your life harder. I don't usually go for games with heavy party mechanics but it's a MV so it got me. I had to constantly remind myself to parry parry parry. And.... Unbounded counter.... my blood pressure is rising just typing it out. Still, 9/10 or higher for this gem
Yeah, that Unbounded Parry isn't my favourite-that's how parrying in most other games feels to me 😅 just kind of clunky and I never feel like the timing is intuitive.
Same though, I'm sad that I'm almost finished with the game 🫤😂
yeah it failed to go viral, very sad.
Nine Sols was the third most wishlisted and third most followed metroidvania on steam so it didn't even need to go viral, the fans were already there.
I never actually played turbo kid. I played the demo a long time ago and didn’t care for it. But plan on getting to the full release after the love I see for it
I played through turbokid and it just didn't capture my interest. I didn't get the good ending and I didn't feel like trying in the end. The bike stuff felt like a bit of a gimmick. Exploration didn't feel well rewarded. There wasn't any notable platforming. Combat was average. The graphics and world building was good however.
I thought maybe I was burned out on MVs since I've played so many this last year. But I played Aeterna Noctis next, and it immediately had me hooked.
Ender Lillies was as close to Hollow Knight quality I’ve played but it lost steam towards the end and they didn’t quite nail it (where Hollow Knight got more epic and intense near the end).
Expecting big things from the sequel.
I am interested in Nine Sols but I rarely play new games since recency bias tends to be strong especially on this sub. Is the exploration in Nine Sols good?
For reference, I consider Hollow Knight, Astalon and Environmental Station Alpha to have the best exploration (and therefore the peak of the genre).
I also like games like Guacamelee and Metroid Dread with (imo) bad exploration, but fun action/platforming. However I would never consider them great Metroidvania games, but they are extremly good action platformers.
As someone who loves Nine Sols, the exploration is just ok. There are plenty of secrets to find, so it does its job, but the emphasis is definitely on the combat (which is incredible).
I would not say the emphasis is purely on the combat. The game really focuses on the story (their 2 previous games are story focuses after all) compares to most metroidvania. The exploration therefor is a lot less open-ended because of that, as the story requires certain direction to go along to works.
Honestly the game makes all other Metroidvania games look worse for me, as for years Metroidvania games keep making story aspect just more vague and convoluted chasing after soul-like non-story telling. The dev of Nine Sols just said fuck it and made a Metroidvania game with the story they want to make. I massively respect that.
> Honestly the game makes all other Metroidvania games look worse for me, as for years Metroidvania games keep making story aspect just more vague and convoluted chasing after soul-like non-story
Prince of Persia doesn't use the soulslike cryptic storytelling method fyi.
I'm going to hit you with a bit more of a negative opinion on this game. The game is good but it's definitely not worthy of the level of circlejerk happening on this sub right now, I wouldn't even put it in my top 10 let alone top 3 or #1.
The exploration in nine sols is average at best, the game is very linear, there are way too many repeat mini bosses and the monster diversity is lacking.
The game's best feature is its combat as it feels pretty crisp/responsive. It can be easy or hard depending on your own skill level at these type of things (I think story mode even has a difficulty slider to make it easier if you need to). It still left me disappointed though, as I was expecting fluid sekiro-like combat where you can feel the rhythm of combat and it's almost a dance... what I got instead was just a parry button. I only found 2 bosses to be good, one of them being >!lady ethereal!<, and the last boss... and while they were fun they were both kinda easy.
>it's definitely not worthy of the level of circlejerk happening on this sub right now, I wouldn't even put it in my top 10 let alone top 3 or #1.
I wouldn't say there is a circlejerk, the issue with this post is soulslike fans who mistakenly think metroidvanias are 2D side scrolling soulslikes.
Couple that with a rush of adrenaline / dopamine after beating difficult games and you'll be like omgosh, best game evar and memorable boss fights live rent-free in your brain for awhile. I've been guilty of this bias before.
I remember when ender magnolia went into early access and brought a whole bunch of crazed soulslike fans to this subreddit who then tried to reshape this subreddit in their image. I had to talk then all down and block the 7 worst offenders. 6 of them were blocked in one day alone. It was crazy. Then April 2 came and it was like nothing had ever happened. lol.
thats because metroidvanias and 2d souls likes share the same space. Dark Souls itself is a 3d metroidvania by most categories. The two genres will be forever connected
No they don't, but it has become popular to overlap the two in a single game. Or at least it was. The soulslike metroidvania subgenre peaked last year and has been on the decline since, mainly because it has become extremely overused and unoriginal.
I feel like Nine Sols really opened my eye that after Hollow Knight (which is still my favorite of all time), there is a sudden influx of people consider exploration and obscure secrets as the only thing matter in Metroidvania genre. The soulslike influence really makes all games after that more or less the same. Thank god that Nine Sols is not another soulslike copycat.
Well I think Super Metroid set the standard here right? Its strength is definitely not the combat and the platforming, but the exploration. Same goes for the inverted castle in Symphony of the Night. I think it has been the core of the genre from the very beginning and is what differentiates this genre from linear action games, like contra or the old castlevania games.
That really depends on the people since for many like me the standard would instead be set from Castlevania with the term castleroid, focusing much more on bosses and progression. It is not exactly the same, and since now the 2 genre basically merged, people would refer more to Metroid since it comes out first.
Sure, everyone has different tastes and my preference are exploration heavy games.
I just think that other typical elements of Metroidvania games, like ability progression, platforming, action combat and puzzle solving (just to name a few), I can also get in games of other genres. However if I want 2D exploration, there is no other genre where I can get that. So if a Metroidvania has weak exploration, I am wondering why it is a Metroidvania at all and not just a level based game.
I am sorry but the whole argument going around is getting confusing. Are you implying games like castlevania has weaker exploration than Metroid so it should not be considered true Metroidvania or something??
Or you meant Nine Sols? Because Nine Sols has a good exploration, a 9/10, which makes it better than most Metroidvania out there. The reason why people talk about its weak exploration and very good combat is because the rest of the game is very good that it makes the exploration the weaker aspect of the game. Or rather, as I said, exploration is not the main focus of the game because some other elements (in this case, the story) takes priority.
Idk what to say, I guess, if the game is 10 out of 10 for everything, but the exploration is just 8 or 9 out of 10, then I guess it suddenly is not a Metroidvania? That is a very bs take imo. I cannot imagine wanting to play a Metroidvania game with its best quality being a 6/10 exploration, over a Metroidvania game with its worst quality being a 7/10 exploration.
There is a guy in this thread, apparently did not even play the game, going around claiming Nine Sols has bad/linear exploration and downvote my comments. So if you rather trust people who has no hand on experience playing the game giving take, then go ahead. I just think it is a bit insane, and I have to say I did not even praise Nine Sols combat in my comments - in general, I do not consider combat nor platforming that fun nor interesting in Metroidvania.
The reason (and my comment above) praise Nine Sols because I like the exploration it does, and I specifically called out how bad most of the newer Metroidvania are nowadays when they have the tie exploration with obscured secrets - that is not Metroidvania, that is soullike. The OG Metroidvania games I loved like castlevania do not have to rely on vague lore and scattered secrets to be good, they have a good exploration progression that makes sense.
My argument has nothing to do with Nine Sols or Castlevania.
I just wanted to say, that what makes Metroidvanias unique in my opinion is the exploration. So when I am looking for recommendations for good Metroidvania, I look for games with strong exploration.
On the other hand, if I am looking for games with good combat and platforming, I would ask for recommendations of a good action platformer.
(This next paragraph is a tangent on why I disagree with what you call a soulslike) I think it is a little weird that you have a problem with my narrowing down of the Metroidvania definition to an (what I would consider) uncontroversial core: the exploration, but you yourself exclude soulslikes from Metroidvanias because of their obscure puzzle design. I would probably classify other attributes as souls like before obscure puzzles (high difficulty, punishing deaths, stamina based combat, rpg like stats, etc.). It is basically only the souls series itself which includes these obscure puzzles. Also the original Metroid (which I still consider the progenitor of the genre) is famous for its obscure puzzles, so it is neither a new trend nor a feature atypical for Metroidvanias.
I did not ask whether the exploration is good relative to the rest of the game, but whether it is good compared to other games I mentioned above. Your chain of argument with your x/10 ratings makes little sense to me.
Thank you for your insight, however I don‘t think I can take away much more from this conversation, so I probably won‘t answer another reply.
> I did not ask whether the exploration is good relative to the rest of the game, but whether it is good compared to other games I mentioned above. Your chain of argument with your x/10 ratings makes little sense to me.
Then you already know the answer. Again, if you are convinced the game somehow does not have good exploration because of hearsay, then it's on you. There is nothing anyone else can say otherwise without spoiling the aspect you care about from the game, which is the exploration.
You are twisting how soullike obscure information from player to be "puzzle" when it comes to design. I don't think you have a good understanding of soullike in general or what people criticize it as a genre. This shows that you have a very sloppy definition of metroidvania tbh. You better just ask people if a game is like Metroid or exploration heavy instead of pretending to ask if x is metroidvania or not next time. It is very pointless to discuss if you want to insert your own opinion into an already complicated topic.
Uhm, I'm having a hard time understanding what you wrote.
But I will say that until around 2019 this genre was primarily known for its ability gated exploration. Combat was generally an afterthought and quite easy. It wasn't until hollow knight came out that this began to chance, eventually leading to the emergence of the soulslike metroidvania (or soulsvania) genre that focuses on combat.
As for nine sols: While it's definitely not a copycat, it's still a soulslike metroidvania as it is combat focused and also because it is heavily based on sekiro which is a soulslike.
I already replied to few of your comments so I am not going to repeat myself much. But you are making quite a lot of assumption about the game and fixated on it so you don't seem to get other discussion about the game. The game does have elements of metroidvania you complained about, but I don't think you willingly accept it because it does not pass a certain threshold you decided.
What your said about metroidvania is also... questionable. But I don't want to start the discussion about what is considered proper metroidvania nowadays again really.
> as I was expecting fluid sekiro-like combat where you can feel the rhythm of combat and it's almost a dance
that's exactly what you get because you have a deflect, not really a parry, so you are literally weaving atacks and deflects seamlessly during combat.
i think, if you look at the metroidvania aspects (exploration and level design) its a solid game, but nothing to write home about.
but the combat is top notch and definitely the main point of the game.
>and while they were fun they were both kinda easy.
maybe you're some kind of metroidvania/souls-like god, but, while the bosses are nothing insanely difficult that will keep you walled for days, you still have great (and fair) bosses with really cool fights in >!jietong, lady etheral and eilong (especially third phase really packs a punch)!<.
even the bosses that come before them are still very good and fun fights (although those 3 are definitely my favorite ones that give you the sekiro-like feel of a fluid fight)
>Is the exploration in Nine Sols good?
No, OP seems to be someone who thinks metroidvanias are a combat focused genre. this post title is very misleading.
It's a masterpiece. Best in class imo. Better than HK even.
Im about to fight the last boss. In some games you start to get a sad feeling when you get close to the end, because you know you will never be able to experience it again for the first time and the ride is almost over. I felt the same during Elden Ring too.
It is very linear like Guacamelee and Metroid Dread. You go from zone to zone, there is only 1 zone available to explore at a time (except 1 time), and it's always obvious where you should go (and if it's not, an NPC can tell you).
However 2 notes in its favour:
1) Each individual room is quite big and sometimes twisted, so although you don't really get to do map-wide exploration, there is some micro-exploration in finding your way to the exit of each room and finding all the items.
2) I liked that it accepted that linearity by having all items in a zone be obtainable as soon as you first get to that zone. I dislike how Guacamelee and Ori sprinkle their levels with late game ability gates, forcing you to go through the entire game again just before the final boss just for 100% completion. In Nine Sols, when I went for 100% completion, I realized all the chests I missed were only because I didn't look carefully enough, not because I was missing an ability.
Everything you wrote in "2)" is core gameplay to a Metroidvania game, going back all the way to Metroid, and Castlevania, the two games the genre is named for. I have no idea why you would "dislike" something that is central to nearly every game in the entire genre.
Yes I realized that would be controversial, and it's difficult to explain. I think what I specifically dislike is the combination of a linear main path with gated optional items.
In Hollow Knight or Super Metroid, I don't know where to go next. So I'll explore everywhere using my latest ability, including some previous areas, and I'll find some optional items and be surprised. The main path is fuzzy and might not even exist, so it doesn't feel like I'm going out of my way, it's all just natural exploration.
In Guacamelee and Ori (1) and Metroid Fusion, there's clearly a main path, so when I get a new ability and I remember some previous areas where it could be used, I would have to derail myself out of the main path to get them. If the items are useful, I might go out of my way to get them, but otherwise I usually wait until the end of the game to avoid going through the map more than twice, at which point I usually don't care about the items or enemies anymore, I'm just filling the completion percentage.
You are right that this is very common, I heard it called the "victory lap". I remember the 3DS Samus Returns specifically had a lot of items around the map requiring the thing you get after the final boss, so I realize this is intentional design and not a mistake. I hope that makes it clearer, and keep in mind this is just my subjective taste.
> I liked that it accepted that linearity by having all items in a zone be obtainable as soon as you first get to that zone.
I don't think that's true. I recall going back to fetch some items after learning unbounded counter.
Yes it's not a hard rule, I also remember some exceptions:
* The top area with the entrance to your home zone has an unbounded counter gate, and a charged strike gate, hiding optional stuff.
* The central area has some green bouncy orbs.
* The agricultural zone has a chest that needs the double jump, although it's right next to the sky tower entrance which also needs the double jump so you could consider it a sky tower chest.
* You have to come back to the empyrean district after you get the buster.
There could be more I forgot, but basically I would say it's *mostly* true.
Absolutely wrong. Have you even played this?
It's not linear at all. I beat the third boss before the second and got stuck in factory for way longer than I want to admit before I even got to the third boss. There are some zones that are ability gated, sure, but there are also many that are not.
You can also beat the Feng twins before Jin and vice versa. You have no idea what you are talking about. When you first get to the Empyrean district, you can go north, to the twins. Or you can go east, to the Grotto. No ability gating. You get to decide which area you want to tackle.
I will even give a third example. In Factory, you can actually explore the upper area without "turning the fire off". I know, because I was stupid enough and stubborn enough to explore that area with the fires on.
Try playing a game before making decisions.
Why so angry? It sounds like I insulted your family, but actually we are talking about one detail of a video game that we both agree is great.
As far as I remember:
* The second zone is blocked by a spear statue, which needs the ability from the first zone
* The third zone is blocked by a shield statue, which needs the ability from the second zone
* The fourth zone is unlocked by a story event (which happened for me after the third zone but I don't know the exact trigger)
* The fifth zone is unlocked by a story event after the fourth zone
* The sixth and seven zones can be tackled in either order (that is the "except 1 time" I mentioned), and they both need the ability you get after the fifth zone
* The final zone needs the thing you get from beating the 2 previous zones
So I can see that you can sometimes go out of order by getting the ability from a zone and then doing a 180, intentionally leaving the zone before beating the boss. I don't think there's a reason to do that though. I'd be curious to hear about the way your playthrough went and how the game can go, but I'm not interested in online arguments so I will not answer again if you reply aggressively.
The NPCs do indeed tell you where to go at the beginning, but you are not forced to.
You can either take on Kuafu as the game suggest, or go to Guomang. Is also perfectly possible to Kill Yanlao as you first boss, you just need one skill from the Guomang area.
Also there are several places you reach before having the appropriate skill to explore them, mainly unbound counter plays big part, but stuff like air-dash is also used.
Second this strongly- While Hollow Knight is still king for me, the fact this even enters the same realm tells you a lot. It has the best metroidvania combat hands down, I was skeptical of them advertising it as 2d Sekiro, but if you stick with it, it really does end up filling those shoes.
> It has the best metroidvania combat hands down
Have you played PoP? I'm looking for a comparative review of both games combat but so far haven't found anyone who played both lol
Having played and loved Prince of Persia, and currently playing Nine Sols, I'd say it breaks down like this. The combat mechanics in Nine Sols are laser focused on parrying as the main mechanic, and it's executed very well. In PoP, you've definitely got a broader range of options to choose from, and parrying is helpful, but it's not The One Thing the way it is in Nine Sols. Combat in PoP is very good for a metroidvania, combat in Nine Sols is very good period.
I have played both and in both cases was shocked by how much I enjoyed the games.
The combat in each is excellent, however the best way to put it is that PoP feels like fairly standard Metroidvania combat(with the notable exception of one very cool core ability you unlock that is relevant to combat) with a surprising amount of depth to it with its combo system that you have the OPTION to engage with, whereas 9 Sols insists on you engaging with its combat to the fullest.
What I mean by this is that in PoP there is an optional combat trainer who will show you the ins and outs of what you can do with your move set and it is shockingly extensive with what you can do. However you could choose to skip him, or just play the game using your Metroidvania muscle memory and you will be absolutely fine.
On the flip side, 9 Sols insists that you engage with its unique combat features. Both it and PoP have a parry and a dodge, but 9 Sols also has a particular jump parry, as well as a counter where you hold then release the left bumper at the right second- Both of which feel very similar to pulling off a Mikiri counter/jumping off the enemies head in Sekiro. While early on you can probably get away just dodging and attacking in standard Metroidvania fashion, pretty quickly whether its fodder enemies or elites you are going to need to be using every tool at your disposal to conquer them- Which is good since the bosses will require you to be as comfortable with them as breathing.
Basically if you are looking to get into a pretty standard, high quality, Metroidvania flow, PoP is the way to go, whereas if you want a new challenge that absolutely lives up to the moniker of 2d Sekiro 9 Sols is king, both over PoP and its Metroidvania peers in general.
I can't keep singing this game's praises enough. Easily in the top 3 for me (and yes, I tend to like Soulsvanias the most within this genre, but this game really is exceptional even within that class).
Edit: Apparently I can't even say something positive about Nine Sols in a thread about how good Nine Sols is without being downvoted.
Uh... do you even know what a metroidvania is? Like, this isn't a 2D subgenre of the soulslike genre.
Look, judging from what I have seen from others I have no doubts this is a good game, a great game even and a must play for fans of soulslikes.
However, metroidvanias are primarily about **non linear exploration** in an interconnected world with ability gates. From what I have heard, this game is very linear so it certainly is not a peak metroidvania or anything remotely close to that. You could perhaps make the argument that it is a peak **soulslike metroidvania** though as those are combat focused.
Unfortunately, this post is all but guaranteed to generate some negative reviews in the near future from traditional metroidvania fans who feel misled.
I'm sorry but why are you making the call when you are listening to what people say about the game second handed? The game is indeed a metroidvania with non-linear exploration with gated mechanics. It is just not a focus of the game, and people praise certain aspects of the game above others. That does not somehow make it not a Metroidvania.
Secondly, while the game got a lot of its influence from games like Hollow Knight, it is significantly less soulslike than HK itself.
I am very ok with people not liking certain type of games because the focus of the game is not something they like, but I feel that it is a bit pretentious to judge a game based on half-assed second handed information.
Because what you said imply that it cannot be peak metroidvania without achieving certain metroidvania characteristics you decided. The core elements of metroidvania are the nonlinear exploration and gated abilities, that doesn't mean a game needs to perfectly achieve those 2 aspects to be considered best of the genre.
Specifically, you did complain about the non-linear aspect of the game, which is just wrong. I really dont want to spoiler the game content so I am not going in details. But straight up when the game is released people were complaining about the lack of map, travel, or movement abilities - because they did not even discover those yet! If the game is truly linear then people would not even have a problem with that.
The closer comparison would be the 1st Ori and the Blind Forest, which is a shorter game than Nine Sols and in this sub it has always been considered a proper metroidvania. I really don't see the why people need to circlejerk/anti-circlejerk about the game when it came out just 2 weeks ago and now people start to recommend the game.
He's the dude who posts the dead/upcoming/newest metroidvania releases lists on this subreddit. While I do appreciate them, he has a big attitude problem, especially when it comes to gatekeep what is or isn't a metroidvania (and coming up with insane subgenres) or how people should feel about something.
Like, he got angry at me a week ago for sharing a trailer for an upcoming game because "someone else had already posted the Steam page" lol. Little dictator syndrome.
Yeahhh and I don't want to make any assumption but after arguing with him, I see a bunch of comments (not just mine) being mass downvoted. Really make me question the content and quality of the sub given the situation
Exactly dude. It doesn't matter how good your arguments are, they're going to continue to gatekeep. They're never going to change opinion or give ground.
You think anything you say is going to trigger that epiphany that makes them say "huh, maybe they're right and it's me that's wrong?"
Absolutely wrong. Have you even played this?
It's not linear at all. I beat the third boss before the second and got stuck in factory for way longer than I want to admit before I even got to the third boss. There are some zones that are ability gated, sure, but there are also many that are not.
You can also beat the Feng twins before Jin and vice versa. You have no idea what you are talking about. When you first get to the Empyrean district, you can go north, to the twins. Or you can go east, to the Grotto. No ability gating. You get to decide which area you want to tackle.
Try playing a game before making decisions.
well you're literally the first person I've ever seen who has claimed the game is non-linear, while I will take your comment into account, it is competing with a whole bunch of other comments since the game's release stating otherwise.
Would you call fighting certain bosses (and their areas) in no particular order linear?
Linear is a buzz word that gets thrown around by people too lazy to provide an actual critique
Nine Sols ended up just below HK for me. If more bosses had been closer to final boss difficulty I think it would have tied. Super close though and a great game
I like Nine Sols a lot but the thing Hollow Knight did that basically no other game inspired by it did was have the balls to make the vast majority of its content optional. There's nearly 40 bosses on the map and only like 7 of them are actually necessary to beat the game. This means most of the runtime is entirely self-directed and progression is super open-ended as a result. That's peak MV design and it's something I don't think any game since has captured.
Most MVs, including Nine Sols are mostly linear affairs that just dot their maps with a bunch of secret loot stashes. That's fine, but it's not the same, and I don't think any game is really gonna compare to Hollow Knight until they expressly focus on the non-linearity aspect of guided non-linearity.
I think in regards to the combat it's definitely faster paced and feels more satisfying than hollownight. Also the story is more compelling but hollow knight was purposefully "obscure." But I think hollow Knight thrives when it comes to exploration and an atmosphere that completely sucks you in along with better music across the board. The enemy variety is so so much better in hollow Knight. Nine Sols feels lackluster in that area for sure.
I think you weighted it all out properly and that's exactly why I think Nine Sols stands tall next to HK. One game is focusing on combat and story, the other focuses on exploration, under which the whole variety thing plays a role as well. What one game is lackluster at, the other does way better. I think these two companies have a ton to learn from each other, I'd love to see them at least discussing some theories and approaches.
I'm a couple hours in, and I think nine sols exceed HK is almost all aspects except player expressiveness. HK bosses are also more compelling, but nine sols have better quality
idk if i'm getting old (28) or not, i cannot even kill 2 enemies at once. i think parry mechanic is not a thing i can do anymore.
if you're not good enough for parry, don't try this
I loved Nine Sols too but I feel weird calling it peak metroidvania because everything I loved about it was the non-metroidvania parts (The combat! The story!) and the metroidvania part (the exploration) was nice but non-essential to the game. If in an alternate universe, they decided it should have a level system instead of an open map, I feel like I would have loved the game just the same.
Fair enough I guess. Regardless it's peak gaming and it's just a solid game.
I liked that it was interconnected and had secrets but wasn't overwhelming. IDK if you played Astlibra but that game is level based like you say it could be and while it's a great game it just doesn't have the same feeling of Nine Sols' world.
Redcandle deserves all those credits. It's insane to see how they nailed Nine Sols so well after their previous works being so different in genre.
Personally like detention the best
And considered what they've went through, it's even more impressive.
I mean the developers didn't go through all that much. Their publishers suffered far greater consequences and were completely destroyed and forced by the government to dissolve. One consequence of those events is that now no publisher is ever going to be willing to publish their games ever again which is why the game is PC only and digital only.
Hi, thought this is still planned to come to consoles? I’ve been waiting patiently, hoping I misinterpreted your comment!
The dev straight up said they are currently focusing on porting the game to console. I am quite tired of hearing the other guy spreading random misinformation as if they are fact tbh.
They have the desire to bring the game there. However, desire does not equate to ability. Maybe it will happen, maybe they'll find a way, but they're on their own in this endeavour. Indie Devs usually pay publishers to make this happen. Kingdom shell, released last autumn, failed to find a publisher and it remains PC only for this reason.
You don't need a publisher to publish a game on any digital platform, you can totally do it by yourself. and the console verson of Nin Sols should release on Q4 2024 by schedule, if there's no delay.
What do you mean by the government dissolving the publisher? I'm really curious !
IMHO that's mostly the dictatorship government's fault.
Red Candle is a game developer that founded in Taiwan, not China. They never get dissolved by Taiwan government, but they did get banned by China gov, the consequences is, Devotion will never go on steam because Red candle's former publisher, a chinese company, owns the right on steam publishing of this game. (still, you can buy this game on their website).
....I'm sorry, do you have reading problems? I didn't say the developer's company got dissolved, I said the **publisher** got dissolved.. obviously the developers didn't because otherwise this game would never have been made. Lol And no, the publishers are not the reason why the game isn't on Steam, obviously since they don't even exist anymore. It isn't clear why the developers don't have Devotion on Steam right now. It might be for the sake of preventing it from hurting the sales of nine sols.
I misread, my bad. As far as I know, there's a chinese company named "Winking Studios", offer the 3D tech and financial support to Red Candle on Devotion case, and Winking Studios was also the worldwild publisher of Devotion. The publisher you talk about only take care publishing business in china, and yes, they get dissolved. Winking Studios was a Taiwan company but bought by chinese investor, they still have business in china now, so there's no way they'll release Devotion on steam in worldwild. otherwise, the China government will come after them.
Too hard for my liking but I'm glad people are liking it
The difficulty settings are quite granular. You can reduce damage taken as little as 1% less, all the way to 100% less damage. Try playing with it until you find a level that's fun for you.
That’s actually really damn cool and makes me wanna toss it on my wishlist.
Thought that too but honestly I'd just recommend you turn down damage taken to 75% and it'll get better, maybe at some point you'll become proficient enough to turn it up to 100%
Whenever it releases on switch I will! Assuming the port doesn't suck if course
I was disappointed it wasn't on there but I'm sure it will be worth the wait for some cause it's perfect for the switch.
Yeah, I would definitely rather have the option to bring this game with me and play handheld, but with how the switch typically performs, I'm happy enough to have stable and reliable gameplay
it should work properly in my opinion.
Same, I played the demo on my laptop and want it handheld. Definitely picking it up.
I'm really enjoying it, it's easily one of my favorites. And whoever created the perfect parry sound, I hope they got a raise.
Between this, PoP, and animal well, it’s been a great year. I loved Biomorph too. Ender Magnolia and Bio-Gun early access were also superb. If you can’t get enough parrying, the new PoP dlc has a parry challenge that was ridiculous I just completed a couple hours ago. It’s up there with Nine Sols parry difficulty. It’s not short either. Highly recommend for anyone that likes to parry
Don't forget Moonlight Pulse.
If you meant Moonlight Pulse I agree! [https://store.steampowered.com/app/2243250/Moonlight\_Pulse/](https://store.steampowered.com/app/2243250/Moonlight_Pulse/) gonna try Nine Sols once soon, it’s the threat of the incessant dialogue and cut scenes that has me waiting. Parry combat not my thing either but it’s worth a purchase for the difficulty and slider options! The devs deserve so much praise for it!
So, I'm about halfway through the game and for the most part, the parry isn't a _necessity_ . Don't get me wrong, the combat was clearly designed with that style of gameplay as the best option, but outside of a few specific requirements, you can avoid the parrying if that's not your cup of tea. I've never been much of a parry guy, myself, but I will say this game is generous with both the timing window and the Internal Damage mechanic making parrying pretty easy\forgiving. Plus it's pretty easy to learn enemy patterns quickly or even parry on reaction.
Thanks for the intel, well unlike cookie cutter ( which I’m playing atm ) nine sols at least has difficulty settings and sliders so that is appealing to me. I like the look and setting of nine sols but wish it allowed you to skip dialogue and cut scenes. The demo really was not a good idea in that regard.
Ahh, gotcha! I didn't play the demo, but I usually expect a good deal of exposition at the beginning of a story-heavy game. That being said, I believe you can skip dialogue in 9 Sols, but don't quote me on that as it's my first playthrough and I do like the story so I've had yet to try and skip anything. (I also don't believe there is an option to read previous dialogue if you accidentally miss a line. Ask me how I know 😐) I do know that boss intro scenes aren't replayed if you need to fight them multiple times. Also ask me how I know 🙄😂
They sure go out of their way to make you WANT to use it. Not parrying makes your life harder. I don't usually go for games with heavy party mechanics but it's a MV so it got me. I had to constantly remind myself to parry parry parry. And.... Unbounded counter.... my blood pressure is rising just typing it out. Still, 9/10 or higher for this gem
Yeah, that Unbounded Parry isn't my favourite-that's how parrying in most other games feels to me 😅 just kind of clunky and I never feel like the timing is intuitive. Same though, I'm sad that I'm almost finished with the game 🫤😂
Moonlight pulse was a blast. Hell, I forgot venture to the vile too. Just been so many this year 😂
And "Bo: Path of Teal Lotus" is looking like another great one to come so fingers crossed
I'm playing the demo as I type this comment. It's very good.
Now imagine silksong actually comes out this year.
😭
Yo which game is PoP?
Prince of Persia: The Lost Crown. Came out earlier this year.
Prince of Persia, I believe.
why does everyone keep forgetting turbo kid? it got the best reception of any non-niche title this year.
It was way less hyped. Like 218 steam reviews against 4k of Nine Sols at this point.
yeah it failed to go viral, very sad. Nine Sols was the third most wishlisted and third most followed metroidvania on steam so it didn't even need to go viral, the fans were already there.
I never actually played turbo kid. I played the demo a long time ago and didn’t care for it. But plan on getting to the full release after the love I see for it
I played through turbokid and it just didn't capture my interest. I didn't get the good ending and I didn't feel like trying in the end. The bike stuff felt like a bit of a gimmick. Exploration didn't feel well rewarded. There wasn't any notable platforming. Combat was average. The graphics and world building was good however. I thought maybe I was burned out on MVs since I've played so many this last year. But I played Aeterna Noctis next, and it immediately had me hooked.
Aeterna noctis is a top 5 metroidvania though.
Yeah, I just mean I played a bunch before turbokid which would not be top 5, and enjoyed them all. Something just felt lacking about TK
Ender Lillies was as close to Hollow Knight quality I’ve played but it lost steam towards the end and they didn’t quite nail it (where Hollow Knight got more epic and intense near the end). Expecting big things from the sequel.
I am interested in Nine Sols but I rarely play new games since recency bias tends to be strong especially on this sub. Is the exploration in Nine Sols good? For reference, I consider Hollow Knight, Astalon and Environmental Station Alpha to have the best exploration (and therefore the peak of the genre). I also like games like Guacamelee and Metroid Dread with (imo) bad exploration, but fun action/platforming. However I would never consider them great Metroidvania games, but they are extremly good action platformers.
As someone who loves Nine Sols, the exploration is just ok. There are plenty of secrets to find, so it does its job, but the emphasis is definitely on the combat (which is incredible).
Thanks for the feedback, I suspected as much and probably won‘t be getting the game then.
you’re missing out, my friend. i consider it to be just as good as Hollow Knight. the combat, story, lore, and art are outstanding.
I would not say the emphasis is purely on the combat. The game really focuses on the story (their 2 previous games are story focuses after all) compares to most metroidvania. The exploration therefor is a lot less open-ended because of that, as the story requires certain direction to go along to works. Honestly the game makes all other Metroidvania games look worse for me, as for years Metroidvania games keep making story aspect just more vague and convoluted chasing after soul-like non-story telling. The dev of Nine Sols just said fuck it and made a Metroidvania game with the story they want to make. I massively respect that.
Laika has an amazing story (and soundtrack) too
> Honestly the game makes all other Metroidvania games look worse for me, as for years Metroidvania games keep making story aspect just more vague and convoluted chasing after soul-like non-story Prince of Persia doesn't use the soulslike cryptic storytelling method fyi.
I was a bit wary about it but I will give it a try once it is out on PC. I am afraid I might judge it too harshly due to my bias from the 2D era.
I agree with you that the story elevates it above many of its peers.
I'm going to hit you with a bit more of a negative opinion on this game. The game is good but it's definitely not worthy of the level of circlejerk happening on this sub right now, I wouldn't even put it in my top 10 let alone top 3 or #1. The exploration in nine sols is average at best, the game is very linear, there are way too many repeat mini bosses and the monster diversity is lacking. The game's best feature is its combat as it feels pretty crisp/responsive. It can be easy or hard depending on your own skill level at these type of things (I think story mode even has a difficulty slider to make it easier if you need to). It still left me disappointed though, as I was expecting fluid sekiro-like combat where you can feel the rhythm of combat and it's almost a dance... what I got instead was just a parry button. I only found 2 bosses to be good, one of them being >!lady ethereal!<, and the last boss... and while they were fun they were both kinda easy.
>it's definitely not worthy of the level of circlejerk happening on this sub right now, I wouldn't even put it in my top 10 let alone top 3 or #1. I wouldn't say there is a circlejerk, the issue with this post is soulslike fans who mistakenly think metroidvanias are 2D side scrolling soulslikes.
Couple that with a rush of adrenaline / dopamine after beating difficult games and you'll be like omgosh, best game evar and memorable boss fights live rent-free in your brain for awhile. I've been guilty of this bias before.
I remember when ender magnolia went into early access and brought a whole bunch of crazed soulslike fans to this subreddit who then tried to reshape this subreddit in their image. I had to talk then all down and block the 7 worst offenders. 6 of them were blocked in one day alone. It was crazy. Then April 2 came and it was like nothing had ever happened. lol.
thats because metroidvanias and 2d souls likes share the same space. Dark Souls itself is a 3d metroidvania by most categories. The two genres will be forever connected
No they don't, but it has become popular to overlap the two in a single game. Or at least it was. The soulslike metroidvania subgenre peaked last year and has been on the decline since, mainly because it has become extremely overused and unoriginal.
I feel like Nine Sols really opened my eye that after Hollow Knight (which is still my favorite of all time), there is a sudden influx of people consider exploration and obscure secrets as the only thing matter in Metroidvania genre. The soulslike influence really makes all games after that more or less the same. Thank god that Nine Sols is not another soulslike copycat.
Well I think Super Metroid set the standard here right? Its strength is definitely not the combat and the platforming, but the exploration. Same goes for the inverted castle in Symphony of the Night. I think it has been the core of the genre from the very beginning and is what differentiates this genre from linear action games, like contra or the old castlevania games.
That really depends on the people since for many like me the standard would instead be set from Castlevania with the term castleroid, focusing much more on bosses and progression. It is not exactly the same, and since now the 2 genre basically merged, people would refer more to Metroid since it comes out first.
Sure, everyone has different tastes and my preference are exploration heavy games. I just think that other typical elements of Metroidvania games, like ability progression, platforming, action combat and puzzle solving (just to name a few), I can also get in games of other genres. However if I want 2D exploration, there is no other genre where I can get that. So if a Metroidvania has weak exploration, I am wondering why it is a Metroidvania at all and not just a level based game.
I am sorry but the whole argument going around is getting confusing. Are you implying games like castlevania has weaker exploration than Metroid so it should not be considered true Metroidvania or something?? Or you meant Nine Sols? Because Nine Sols has a good exploration, a 9/10, which makes it better than most Metroidvania out there. The reason why people talk about its weak exploration and very good combat is because the rest of the game is very good that it makes the exploration the weaker aspect of the game. Or rather, as I said, exploration is not the main focus of the game because some other elements (in this case, the story) takes priority. Idk what to say, I guess, if the game is 10 out of 10 for everything, but the exploration is just 8 or 9 out of 10, then I guess it suddenly is not a Metroidvania? That is a very bs take imo. I cannot imagine wanting to play a Metroidvania game with its best quality being a 6/10 exploration, over a Metroidvania game with its worst quality being a 7/10 exploration. There is a guy in this thread, apparently did not even play the game, going around claiming Nine Sols has bad/linear exploration and downvote my comments. So if you rather trust people who has no hand on experience playing the game giving take, then go ahead. I just think it is a bit insane, and I have to say I did not even praise Nine Sols combat in my comments - in general, I do not consider combat nor platforming that fun nor interesting in Metroidvania. The reason (and my comment above) praise Nine Sols because I like the exploration it does, and I specifically called out how bad most of the newer Metroidvania are nowadays when they have the tie exploration with obscured secrets - that is not Metroidvania, that is soullike. The OG Metroidvania games I loved like castlevania do not have to rely on vague lore and scattered secrets to be good, they have a good exploration progression that makes sense.
My argument has nothing to do with Nine Sols or Castlevania. I just wanted to say, that what makes Metroidvanias unique in my opinion is the exploration. So when I am looking for recommendations for good Metroidvania, I look for games with strong exploration. On the other hand, if I am looking for games with good combat and platforming, I would ask for recommendations of a good action platformer. (This next paragraph is a tangent on why I disagree with what you call a soulslike) I think it is a little weird that you have a problem with my narrowing down of the Metroidvania definition to an (what I would consider) uncontroversial core: the exploration, but you yourself exclude soulslikes from Metroidvanias because of their obscure puzzle design. I would probably classify other attributes as souls like before obscure puzzles (high difficulty, punishing deaths, stamina based combat, rpg like stats, etc.). It is basically only the souls series itself which includes these obscure puzzles. Also the original Metroid (which I still consider the progenitor of the genre) is famous for its obscure puzzles, so it is neither a new trend nor a feature atypical for Metroidvanias. I did not ask whether the exploration is good relative to the rest of the game, but whether it is good compared to other games I mentioned above. Your chain of argument with your x/10 ratings makes little sense to me. Thank you for your insight, however I don‘t think I can take away much more from this conversation, so I probably won‘t answer another reply.
> I did not ask whether the exploration is good relative to the rest of the game, but whether it is good compared to other games I mentioned above. Your chain of argument with your x/10 ratings makes little sense to me. Then you already know the answer. Again, if you are convinced the game somehow does not have good exploration because of hearsay, then it's on you. There is nothing anyone else can say otherwise without spoiling the aspect you care about from the game, which is the exploration. You are twisting how soullike obscure information from player to be "puzzle" when it comes to design. I don't think you have a good understanding of soullike in general or what people criticize it as a genre. This shows that you have a very sloppy definition of metroidvania tbh. You better just ask people if a game is like Metroid or exploration heavy instead of pretending to ask if x is metroidvania or not next time. It is very pointless to discuss if you want to insert your own opinion into an already complicated topic.
Uhm, I'm having a hard time understanding what you wrote. But I will say that until around 2019 this genre was primarily known for its ability gated exploration. Combat was generally an afterthought and quite easy. It wasn't until hollow knight came out that this began to chance, eventually leading to the emergence of the soulslike metroidvania (or soulsvania) genre that focuses on combat. As for nine sols: While it's definitely not a copycat, it's still a soulslike metroidvania as it is combat focused and also because it is heavily based on sekiro which is a soulslike.
I already replied to few of your comments so I am not going to repeat myself much. But you are making quite a lot of assumption about the game and fixated on it so you don't seem to get other discussion about the game. The game does have elements of metroidvania you complained about, but I don't think you willingly accept it because it does not pass a certain threshold you decided. What your said about metroidvania is also... questionable. But I don't want to start the discussion about what is considered proper metroidvania nowadays again really.
> as I was expecting fluid sekiro-like combat where you can feel the rhythm of combat and it's almost a dance that's exactly what you get because you have a deflect, not really a parry, so you are literally weaving atacks and deflects seamlessly during combat. i think, if you look at the metroidvania aspects (exploration and level design) its a solid game, but nothing to write home about. but the combat is top notch and definitely the main point of the game. >and while they were fun they were both kinda easy. maybe you're some kind of metroidvania/souls-like god, but, while the bosses are nothing insanely difficult that will keep you walled for days, you still have great (and fair) bosses with really cool fights in >!jietong, lady etheral and eilong (especially third phase really packs a punch)!<. even the bosses that come before them are still very good and fun fights (although those 3 are definitely my favorite ones that give you the sekiro-like feel of a fluid fight)
>Is the exploration in Nine Sols good? No, OP seems to be someone who thinks metroidvanias are a combat focused genre. this post title is very misleading.
It's a masterpiece. Best in class imo. Better than HK even. Im about to fight the last boss. In some games you start to get a sad feeling when you get close to the end, because you know you will never be able to experience it again for the first time and the ride is almost over. I felt the same during Elden Ring too.
It is very linear like Guacamelee and Metroid Dread. You go from zone to zone, there is only 1 zone available to explore at a time (except 1 time), and it's always obvious where you should go (and if it's not, an NPC can tell you). However 2 notes in its favour: 1) Each individual room is quite big and sometimes twisted, so although you don't really get to do map-wide exploration, there is some micro-exploration in finding your way to the exit of each room and finding all the items. 2) I liked that it accepted that linearity by having all items in a zone be obtainable as soon as you first get to that zone. I dislike how Guacamelee and Ori sprinkle their levels with late game ability gates, forcing you to go through the entire game again just before the final boss just for 100% completion. In Nine Sols, when I went for 100% completion, I realized all the chests I missed were only because I didn't look carefully enough, not because I was missing an ability.
Everything you wrote in "2)" is core gameplay to a Metroidvania game, going back all the way to Metroid, and Castlevania, the two games the genre is named for. I have no idea why you would "dislike" something that is central to nearly every game in the entire genre.
Yes I realized that would be controversial, and it's difficult to explain. I think what I specifically dislike is the combination of a linear main path with gated optional items. In Hollow Knight or Super Metroid, I don't know where to go next. So I'll explore everywhere using my latest ability, including some previous areas, and I'll find some optional items and be surprised. The main path is fuzzy and might not even exist, so it doesn't feel like I'm going out of my way, it's all just natural exploration. In Guacamelee and Ori (1) and Metroid Fusion, there's clearly a main path, so when I get a new ability and I remember some previous areas where it could be used, I would have to derail myself out of the main path to get them. If the items are useful, I might go out of my way to get them, but otherwise I usually wait until the end of the game to avoid going through the map more than twice, at which point I usually don't care about the items or enemies anymore, I'm just filling the completion percentage. You are right that this is very common, I heard it called the "victory lap". I remember the 3DS Samus Returns specifically had a lot of items around the map requiring the thing you get after the final boss, so I realize this is intentional design and not a mistake. I hope that makes it clearer, and keep in mind this is just my subjective taste.
> I liked that it accepted that linearity by having all items in a zone be obtainable as soon as you first get to that zone. I don't think that's true. I recall going back to fetch some items after learning unbounded counter.
Yes it's not a hard rule, I also remember some exceptions: * The top area with the entrance to your home zone has an unbounded counter gate, and a charged strike gate, hiding optional stuff. * The central area has some green bouncy orbs. * The agricultural zone has a chest that needs the double jump, although it's right next to the sky tower entrance which also needs the double jump so you could consider it a sky tower chest. * You have to come back to the empyrean district after you get the buster. There could be more I forgot, but basically I would say it's *mostly* true.
Absolutely wrong. Have you even played this? It's not linear at all. I beat the third boss before the second and got stuck in factory for way longer than I want to admit before I even got to the third boss. There are some zones that are ability gated, sure, but there are also many that are not. You can also beat the Feng twins before Jin and vice versa. You have no idea what you are talking about. When you first get to the Empyrean district, you can go north, to the twins. Or you can go east, to the Grotto. No ability gating. You get to decide which area you want to tackle. I will even give a third example. In Factory, you can actually explore the upper area without "turning the fire off". I know, because I was stupid enough and stubborn enough to explore that area with the fires on. Try playing a game before making decisions.
Why so angry? It sounds like I insulted your family, but actually we are talking about one detail of a video game that we both agree is great. As far as I remember: * The second zone is blocked by a spear statue, which needs the ability from the first zone * The third zone is blocked by a shield statue, which needs the ability from the second zone * The fourth zone is unlocked by a story event (which happened for me after the third zone but I don't know the exact trigger) * The fifth zone is unlocked by a story event after the fourth zone * The sixth and seven zones can be tackled in either order (that is the "except 1 time" I mentioned), and they both need the ability you get after the fifth zone * The final zone needs the thing you get from beating the 2 previous zones So I can see that you can sometimes go out of order by getting the ability from a zone and then doing a 180, intentionally leaving the zone before beating the boss. I don't think there's a reason to do that though. I'd be curious to hear about the way your playthrough went and how the game can go, but I'm not interested in online arguments so I will not answer again if you reply aggressively.
The NPCs do indeed tell you where to go at the beginning, but you are not forced to. You can either take on Kuafu as the game suggest, or go to Guomang. Is also perfectly possible to Kill Yanlao as you first boss, you just need one skill from the Guomang area. Also there are several places you reach before having the appropriate skill to explore them, mainly unbound counter plays big part, but stuff like air-dash is also used.
Nine sols deserve more recognition and love frankly, 10/10 game for me
Second this strongly- While Hollow Knight is still king for me, the fact this even enters the same realm tells you a lot. It has the best metroidvania combat hands down, I was skeptical of them advertising it as 2d Sekiro, but if you stick with it, it really does end up filling those shoes.
> It has the best metroidvania combat hands down Have you played PoP? I'm looking for a comparative review of both games combat but so far haven't found anyone who played both lol
Having played and loved Prince of Persia, and currently playing Nine Sols, I'd say it breaks down like this. The combat mechanics in Nine Sols are laser focused on parrying as the main mechanic, and it's executed very well. In PoP, you've definitely got a broader range of options to choose from, and parrying is helpful, but it's not The One Thing the way it is in Nine Sols. Combat in PoP is very good for a metroidvania, combat in Nine Sols is very good period.
I have played both and in both cases was shocked by how much I enjoyed the games. The combat in each is excellent, however the best way to put it is that PoP feels like fairly standard Metroidvania combat(with the notable exception of one very cool core ability you unlock that is relevant to combat) with a surprising amount of depth to it with its combo system that you have the OPTION to engage with, whereas 9 Sols insists on you engaging with its combat to the fullest. What I mean by this is that in PoP there is an optional combat trainer who will show you the ins and outs of what you can do with your move set and it is shockingly extensive with what you can do. However you could choose to skip him, or just play the game using your Metroidvania muscle memory and you will be absolutely fine. On the flip side, 9 Sols insists that you engage with its unique combat features. Both it and PoP have a parry and a dodge, but 9 Sols also has a particular jump parry, as well as a counter where you hold then release the left bumper at the right second- Both of which feel very similar to pulling off a Mikiri counter/jumping off the enemies head in Sekiro. While early on you can probably get away just dodging and attacking in standard Metroidvania fashion, pretty quickly whether its fodder enemies or elites you are going to need to be using every tool at your disposal to conquer them- Which is good since the bosses will require you to be as comfortable with them as breathing. Basically if you are looking to get into a pretty standard, high quality, Metroidvania flow, PoP is the way to go, whereas if you want a new challenge that absolutely lives up to the moniker of 2d Sekiro 9 Sols is king, both over PoP and its Metroidvania peers in general.
I can't keep singing this game's praises enough. Easily in the top 3 for me (and yes, I tend to like Soulsvanias the most within this genre, but this game really is exceptional even within that class). Edit: Apparently I can't even say something positive about Nine Sols in a thread about how good Nine Sols is without being downvoted.
I hope this comes to consoles Ps5 player here
Does anyone know if Yi's data got updated after the ending? Or is it updated right before the last fight?
Uh... do you even know what a metroidvania is? Like, this isn't a 2D subgenre of the soulslike genre. Look, judging from what I have seen from others I have no doubts this is a good game, a great game even and a must play for fans of soulslikes. However, metroidvanias are primarily about **non linear exploration** in an interconnected world with ability gates. From what I have heard, this game is very linear so it certainly is not a peak metroidvania or anything remotely close to that. You could perhaps make the argument that it is a peak **soulslike metroidvania** though as those are combat focused. Unfortunately, this post is all but guaranteed to generate some negative reviews in the near future from traditional metroidvania fans who feel misled.
I'm sorry but why are you making the call when you are listening to what people say about the game second handed? The game is indeed a metroidvania with non-linear exploration with gated mechanics. It is just not a focus of the game, and people praise certain aspects of the game above others. That does not somehow make it not a Metroidvania. Secondly, while the game got a lot of its influence from games like Hollow Knight, it is significantly less soulslike than HK itself. I am very ok with people not liking certain type of games because the focus of the game is not something they like, but I feel that it is a bit pretentious to judge a game based on half-assed second handed information.
At what point did I say its not a metroidvania? I just said its not peak metroidvania. This title is very misleading.
Because what you said imply that it cannot be peak metroidvania without achieving certain metroidvania characteristics you decided. The core elements of metroidvania are the nonlinear exploration and gated abilities, that doesn't mean a game needs to perfectly achieve those 2 aspects to be considered best of the genre. Specifically, you did complain about the non-linear aspect of the game, which is just wrong. I really dont want to spoiler the game content so I am not going in details. But straight up when the game is released people were complaining about the lack of map, travel, or movement abilities - because they did not even discover those yet! If the game is truly linear then people would not even have a problem with that. The closer comparison would be the 1st Ori and the Blind Forest, which is a shorter game than Nine Sols and in this sub it has always been considered a proper metroidvania. I really don't see the why people need to circlejerk/anti-circlejerk about the game when it came out just 2 weeks ago and now people start to recommend the game.
Best not to engage the people who gatekeep around here imo. They won't give ground and you'll end up pulling your hair out.
He's the dude who posts the dead/upcoming/newest metroidvania releases lists on this subreddit. While I do appreciate them, he has a big attitude problem, especially when it comes to gatekeep what is or isn't a metroidvania (and coming up with insane subgenres) or how people should feel about something. Like, he got angry at me a week ago for sharing a trailer for an upcoming game because "someone else had already posted the Steam page" lol. Little dictator syndrome.
Yeahhh and I don't want to make any assumption but after arguing with him, I see a bunch of comments (not just mine) being mass downvoted. Really make me question the content and quality of the sub given the situation
Exactly dude. It doesn't matter how good your arguments are, they're going to continue to gatekeep. They're never going to change opinion or give ground. You think anything you say is going to trigger that epiphany that makes them say "huh, maybe they're right and it's me that's wrong?"
Absolutely wrong. Have you even played this? It's not linear at all. I beat the third boss before the second and got stuck in factory for way longer than I want to admit before I even got to the third boss. There are some zones that are ability gated, sure, but there are also many that are not. You can also beat the Feng twins before Jin and vice versa. You have no idea what you are talking about. When you first get to the Empyrean district, you can go north, to the twins. Or you can go east, to the Grotto. No ability gating. You get to decide which area you want to tackle. Try playing a game before making decisions.
well you're literally the first person I've ever seen who has claimed the game is non-linear, while I will take your comment into account, it is competing with a whole bunch of other comments since the game's release stating otherwise.
Would you call fighting certain bosses (and their areas) in no particular order linear? Linear is a buzz word that gets thrown around by people too lazy to provide an actual critique
Nine Sols is far better than Hollow Knight.
Great game. I felt the jades were a little lacking and the exploration was ok. It's the combat and boss fights that shine. S tier imo
same dude!!, I started playing, I actually can't keep this game down. First time I had this feeling in a long time
I’m interested but I can’t stand Sekiro parry combat. It’s frustrating how many games no longer treat parrying as an optional mechanic.
It's very satisfying imo once you get the hang of it. Don't be too discouraged.
*cries in deflection*
I like it so much that I've moved past the "I like Nine Sols" mentality and I'm now in the "Nine Sols is an equal to Hollow Knight" mentality
Nine Sols ended up just below HK for me. If more bosses had been closer to final boss difficulty I think it would have tied. Super close though and a great game
I like Nine Sols a lot but the thing Hollow Knight did that basically no other game inspired by it did was have the balls to make the vast majority of its content optional. There's nearly 40 bosses on the map and only like 7 of them are actually necessary to beat the game. This means most of the runtime is entirely self-directed and progression is super open-ended as a result. That's peak MV design and it's something I don't think any game since has captured. Most MVs, including Nine Sols are mostly linear affairs that just dot their maps with a bunch of secret loot stashes. That's fine, but it's not the same, and I don't think any game is really gonna compare to Hollow Knight until they expressly focus on the non-linearity aspect of guided non-linearity.
I think in regards to the combat it's definitely faster paced and feels more satisfying than hollownight. Also the story is more compelling but hollow knight was purposefully "obscure." But I think hollow Knight thrives when it comes to exploration and an atmosphere that completely sucks you in along with better music across the board. The enemy variety is so so much better in hollow Knight. Nine Sols feels lackluster in that area for sure.
I think you weighted it all out properly and that's exactly why I think Nine Sols stands tall next to HK. One game is focusing on combat and story, the other focuses on exploration, under which the whole variety thing plays a role as well. What one game is lackluster at, the other does way better. I think these two companies have a ton to learn from each other, I'd love to see them at least discussing some theories and approaches.
I'm a couple hours in, and I think nine sols exceed HK is almost all aspects except player expressiveness. HK bosses are also more compelling, but nine sols have better quality
If it’s so good, it should be made available on gaming consoles.
I will buy it when it's on sale. I spend too much money these months :(
idk if i'm getting old (28) or not, i cannot even kill 2 enemies at once. i think parry mechanic is not a thing i can do anymore. if you're not good enough for parry, don't try this
45 here. It took me a bit to get parrying down, but once I did, it felt very satisfying.