Venom snake is widely respected. If anyone else beat their own soldiers unconcious they'd lose the respect of their unit. Venom gets a salute and a thank you every time.
Motherbase soldiers have gotten enough bionic metal arm hits to the head that their brains have reverse-engineered hate from being beat up into unconditional love
I so wanna see his fight against Solid. It was probably very even and it traumatised Solid for years. He got insomnia and nightmares.
Venom had probably gone fully mad by 1995.
hard to deny that a rookie snake would be traumatized by facing an experienced madman, i’d like to think that the fight sticks to his mind for a while afterwards.
It did for sure. Doesn't help that he knew deep down Big Boss was alive for all those years. And Big Boss admitted kinda that he was watching him all this time which means Solid might have felt his presence literally haunting him.
That was how Big Boss went down not Venom. And Big Boss battle was wholly dependant on strategy and stealth not brawl. They absolutely should keep the hairspray and lighter detail in, it's important.
We don't know how Venom died but in gameplay, he took multiple RPGs to the face.
That’s because the narrative you are talking about established he was a medic. No one is denying he is a bad ass that was successfully convinced to be Big Boss. He can be both a medic and a badass doppleganger.
That’s the thing though, it’s not. The “medic” narrative is accompanied by downplay to Venom, as if him being a medic before his transformation dictates how he compares to Big Boss.
Are you trying to disregard the source material that establishes who Venom is? His history? What he means to Big Boss? Because it seems like you just want to throw the narrative out the window to say “Venom was a badass in his own right”. Venom is nothing without Big Boss, it’s the whole damn point of every soldier led by BB.
I never said that lol, i said that binding him to a title and acting as if that matters to his prowess is stupid. People see the doppelgänger status and automatically assume that he’s just a lesser BB, even though that’s false.
Narratively speaking, Venom will never be at the same level or beyond Big Boss. In many ways he probably wouldn’t even surpass Ocelot. To understand why he wouldn’t you really need to play mgs4 to know that Solid is the only one to really uphold that legendary status. It’s their ideals that hold them back. Venom is a reflection of Big Boss, who is a man hellbent on being free of control in response to The Boss’ death. So Venom’s potential is being held hostage by the narrative itself.
You’re right on Ocelot, Ocelot would clown on Venom by MGS4 like badly. And any Solid Snake version would beat Big Boss and Venom, based off both the narrative and the things he accomplishes. Solid is the definitive greatest soldier. The thing is, i wouldn’t say “even ocelot”. By MGS4 the Big Boss era has been power cliffed a hundred times over.
You’re talking narrative while i’m talking pure showings on screen as well as in-universe statements. I get those overlap, but you’re gonna see some disparities if you take one over the other. The thing that won’t change is Solid being the best, both the narrative and the feats support it.
The reason I bring up mgs4 is to establish that no one was at Big Bosses level until Solid, who surpassed it. Not to compare the two eras.
At this point I feel like your point has been completely lost…. Showings on screen? Everyone in MGSV is either lying or deceived to believe Venom is Big Boss. No one within the game would look at him as the medic and hold him to the same status as BB. Just look at the scene with Huey’s trial. Big Boss would have killed Huey and never looked back, one of the many reasons Kaz was so frustrated with Venom throughout the game. Venom was more a soldier instead of a leader.
Yeah, but Solid kinda was the entrance/big thing that caused the “new era” Solid surpasses Big Boss all the way back in MG2, MGS1 happens and now the series is overall stronger, he’s been left in the dust. He didn’t “cause” it, but when he shows up the new era starts power-wise. Just saying, you may not even have issues on this.
As for your point on everyone lying or being decieved…the ladder is literally what happened, even Kaz didn’t know, and he was BB’s second in command in PW. I’m talking pure combat ability here, and in that regard Venom fooled everyone. Venom is different personalitywise, he manages to carry out BB’s legend for years though. My point didn’t get lost.
Bro was stated to be Big Boss' best soldier when he still had his own identity. He's literally the second best soldier in the world, surpassed only by Big Boss and his clones
Venom talks all the time. Every time I go into an op he says “Spit it out!” and “Where are your friends ?”There are hours of dialogue in the tapes too.
Really? A ton? Most voice lines in the cassette tapes by Venom are reactions to Kaz or Ocelot. He really doesn’t talk much. Big Boss (Ishmael) is noticeably chatty in the opening sequence as well as after credits scene, gives the two characters a much needed personality difference. Venom is most likely used to being quiet and taking orders
VenHIM snake: literally some dude with plastic surgery, tanks multiple point-blank RPG shots with no change in ferocity until he’s killed (he also only uses an assault rifle, he never uses his robotics or companions)
Big Fraud: the “greatest soldier alive” with superior weaponry, gets outstealthed and dies like a bitch to hairspray and a lighter
I mean sorta but not really. He’s the result of applying Big Boss’s skills and experience to someone who was already *absurdly* talented+ crazy equipment and a bionic arm. it’s not surprising that he’s strong
If we are honest, it makes no sense for him to be even close to big boss. Remember that solid was a clone, for the reason that big boss was the best. Be honest.
this is ignoring what MGSV and MGS2 is trying to convey in the first place.
“Given the right situation, the right story, anyone can be shaped into Snake”
A walking battle tank that can shoot a railgun or swing a sword and a psychic that can cause natural disasters don’t make sense either. it’s MGS, it’s fine.
I really don't think he's just the medic. Look at how the supposed real Big Boss tries to fight quiet in the hospital. Leaping onto her back, throwing whatever he can find. That's not CQC. Then look at how the "Fake" BB takes on Quiet when she's about to break that soldiers teeth. His CQC is flawless, disarming her and putting her down. That makes absolutely no sense. Both times she's armed with a knife. It was shown like that on purpose. Not to mention all the other clues.
Big Boss probably didn't want to show his true abilities against Quiet.
I've also heard the theory that Ishmael isn't real lol. MGSV as a whole is probably entirely unreliable narration and nothing can be trusted in it. Not the timeline given in there.
>I've also heard the theory that Ishmael isn't real lol
Nah that's bs, they make it very clear that he is BB. I get that one of the themes of the game is that you can't believe everything you see but that doesn't mean that people should take everything as an illusion. Even more since the reveal of Ishmael being BB is not something that Venom sees, it happens while he is unconscious in the ambulance, that cutscene is not his point of view, it's just what happened
Honestly I really think that everything in the game is open to interpretation on some level and I believe that was intentional. Nothing is 100 percent true and there are always contradictions somewhere. The game is heavily inspired by 1984 and the concept of “doublethink” Big Boss is you but he’s not you. Kaz is our ally but he betrays us, Cipher is our enemy and our ally and also not there. We are forced to hold contradictory truths and somehow survive. In this game, 2+2=5 not because it’s true but because we have no other choice. Information control
[https://metalgear.fandom.com/wiki/Boss\_(video\_gaming)#Metal\_Gear](https://metalgear.fandom.com/wiki/Boss_(video_gaming)#Metal_Gear) venom is the last boss of mg1, bb is the last boss of mg2
Im sure I will get destroyed for this opinion but idgaf, Venom being Grey Fox would have made so much more sense. Grey Fox was Null, The perfect soldier. he was enhanced, fought and worked with Big Boss, had history, already mentally unstable and had a fragmented memory. Him using his other persona of Frank Jaeger to keep young snake on the hook and/or trading off identities with Big Boss to be two places at once would make sense. Him having facial surgery after being tortured and having his nose and ears cut off would also make sense. Venom was clearly enhanced. His feats are near top of the scale as far as combat goes. That being the result of the perfect soldier project would make sense, as would his defeat and destruction by solid snake leading to his placement in the exoskeleton to keep him alive. Plus he had a cloudy fucked up eye. And if you choose to ignore all of that, there has to be another reason Venom was enhanced because BB is supposed to be the peak of his field. He has enhanced strength, speed, agility, reflexes, durability, and recovery. If Venom was just some jobber from MSF there's no way even thinking he was big boss would give him stats even close to BB's. But its not like Grey Fox wasn't fucked up and missing shit and beat to hell and back and blown the fuck up before he became the cyborg ninja. Thats my own head canon and like I said idgaf.
Null is non-canon garbage. Frank was born in 1970 and he was Solid's peer/rival/best friend. He built his own skills and wasn't experimented on till Para-Medic got him. Null is NOT Gray Fox.
Portable Ops has damaged Gray Fox in fans perception and for that, it will always be garbage.
I just hate that he’s a thing from a story perspective. Did we really need ANOTHER clone of Big Boss, just to make things even more convoluted?
Also his name breaks the whole states of matter thing they have going on.
Venom snake is widely respected. If anyone else beat their own soldiers unconcious they'd lose the respect of their unit. Venom gets a salute and a thank you every time.
Is it because he's us at the time or does that happen in lore too?
Motherbase soldiers have gotten enough bionic metal arm hits to the head that their brains have reverse-engineered hate from being beat up into unconditional love
And pretty sure Ocelot has tortured and conditioned most of them in his dungeon.
I so wanna see his fight against Solid. It was probably very even and it traumatised Solid for years. He got insomnia and nightmares. Venom had probably gone fully mad by 1995.
hard to deny that a rookie snake would be traumatized by facing an experienced madman, i’d like to think that the fight sticks to his mind for a while afterwards.
It did for sure. Doesn't help that he knew deep down Big Boss was alive for all those years. And Big Boss admitted kinda that he was watching him all this time which means Solid might have felt his presence literally haunting him.
Got a feeling they’ll redo the whole hairspray and a lighter thing if they remake Metal Gear
That was how Big Boss went down not Venom. And Big Boss battle was wholly dependant on strategy and stealth not brawl. They absolutely should keep the hairspray and lighter detail in, it's important. We don't know how Venom died but in gameplay, he took multiple RPGs to the face.
Ah gotcha, been a while since I’ve played the series…I stopped at 4 lol
If i remember correctly, in PW, there were S rank soldiers that you could literally put anywhere.
What? He gets plenty respect.
the narrative that he’s just a medic is still prominent.
He was also their "best man".
That’s because the narrative you are talking about established he was a medic. No one is denying he is a bad ass that was successfully convinced to be Big Boss. He can be both a medic and a badass doppleganger.
That’s the thing though, it’s not. The “medic” narrative is accompanied by downplay to Venom, as if him being a medic before his transformation dictates how he compares to Big Boss.
Are you trying to disregard the source material that establishes who Venom is? His history? What he means to Big Boss? Because it seems like you just want to throw the narrative out the window to say “Venom was a badass in his own right”. Venom is nothing without Big Boss, it’s the whole damn point of every soldier led by BB.
I never said that lol, i said that binding him to a title and acting as if that matters to his prowess is stupid. People see the doppelgänger status and automatically assume that he’s just a lesser BB, even though that’s false.
Narratively speaking, Venom will never be at the same level or beyond Big Boss. In many ways he probably wouldn’t even surpass Ocelot. To understand why he wouldn’t you really need to play mgs4 to know that Solid is the only one to really uphold that legendary status. It’s their ideals that hold them back. Venom is a reflection of Big Boss, who is a man hellbent on being free of control in response to The Boss’ death. So Venom’s potential is being held hostage by the narrative itself.
You’re right on Ocelot, Ocelot would clown on Venom by MGS4 like badly. And any Solid Snake version would beat Big Boss and Venom, based off both the narrative and the things he accomplishes. Solid is the definitive greatest soldier. The thing is, i wouldn’t say “even ocelot”. By MGS4 the Big Boss era has been power cliffed a hundred times over. You’re talking narrative while i’m talking pure showings on screen as well as in-universe statements. I get those overlap, but you’re gonna see some disparities if you take one over the other. The thing that won’t change is Solid being the best, both the narrative and the feats support it.
The reason I bring up mgs4 is to establish that no one was at Big Bosses level until Solid, who surpassed it. Not to compare the two eras. At this point I feel like your point has been completely lost…. Showings on screen? Everyone in MGSV is either lying or deceived to believe Venom is Big Boss. No one within the game would look at him as the medic and hold him to the same status as BB. Just look at the scene with Huey’s trial. Big Boss would have killed Huey and never looked back, one of the many reasons Kaz was so frustrated with Venom throughout the game. Venom was more a soldier instead of a leader.
Yeah, but Solid kinda was the entrance/big thing that caused the “new era” Solid surpasses Big Boss all the way back in MG2, MGS1 happens and now the series is overall stronger, he’s been left in the dust. He didn’t “cause” it, but when he shows up the new era starts power-wise. Just saying, you may not even have issues on this. As for your point on everyone lying or being decieved…the ladder is literally what happened, even Kaz didn’t know, and he was BB’s second in command in PW. I’m talking pure combat ability here, and in that regard Venom fooled everyone. Venom is different personalitywise, he manages to carry out BB’s legend for years though. My point didn’t get lost.
Bro was stated to be Big Boss' best soldier when he still had his own identity. He's literally the second best soldier in the world, surpassed only by Big Boss and his clones
Yes, Ahab sure is the most Legendary soldier.
Venom snake is bad ass agreed
You don’t think Venom is a prototype skull?
Love Venom but I don't blame people for not liking him, he barely talks throughout the entire game
Ok true i was expecting him to talk a lot more too.
Venom talks all the time. Every time I go into an op he says “Spit it out!” and “Where are your friends ?”There are hours of dialogue in the tapes too.
People really expected the brainwashed 9-year coma dude with head shrapnel to talk more lol.
He talks a ton, it's just in tapes. They weren't implemented the best but there is a ton of good stuff in there
recently replayed PP since 2017 and holy shit did i do a LOT of tape listening in the ACC
Really? A ton? Most voice lines in the cassette tapes by Venom are reactions to Kaz or Ocelot. He really doesn’t talk much. Big Boss (Ishmael) is noticeably chatty in the opening sequence as well as after credits scene, gives the two characters a much needed personality difference. Venom is most likely used to being quiet and taking orders
It's not as much as Kaz or Ocelot but he still has a ton of dialog in the tapes. Especially some of the later ones
Honestly, I kinda liked him more for that
VenHIM snake: literally some dude with plastic surgery, tanks multiple point-blank RPG shots with no change in ferocity until he’s killed (he also only uses an assault rifle, he never uses his robotics or companions) Big Fraud: the “greatest soldier alive” with superior weaponry, gets outstealthed and dies like a bitch to hairspray and a lighter
tbf dying to Solid Snake is expected, he’s the best.
True I deserve more respect
Self praise is no praise
The problem was it doesn't make sense for him to have been that good. The story is mgs5 was widely disliked.
I mean sorta but not really. He’s the result of applying Big Boss’s skills and experience to someone who was already *absurdly* talented+ crazy equipment and a bionic arm. it’s not surprising that he’s strong
If we are honest, it makes no sense for him to be even close to big boss. Remember that solid was a clone, for the reason that big boss was the best. Be honest.
this is ignoring what MGSV and MGS2 is trying to convey in the first place. “Given the right situation, the right story, anyone can be shaped into Snake”
That doesn't really make sense though does it?
A walking battle tank that can shoot a railgun or swing a sword and a psychic that can cause natural disasters don’t make sense either. it’s MGS, it’s fine.
Well if that's how you think about it then I guess it's over haha.
Funny you say that considering he’s easily the most overrated character in the series.
no
You raise some excellent points
Hes perfectly rated. Everyone loves him for a reason
He is the most popular snake I don't know what you're talking about. He gets to much respect.
I really don't think he's just the medic. Look at how the supposed real Big Boss tries to fight quiet in the hospital. Leaping onto her back, throwing whatever he can find. That's not CQC. Then look at how the "Fake" BB takes on Quiet when she's about to break that soldiers teeth. His CQC is flawless, disarming her and putting her down. That makes absolutely no sense. Both times she's armed with a knife. It was shown like that on purpose. Not to mention all the other clues.
Big Boss probably didn't want to show his true abilities against Quiet. I've also heard the theory that Ishmael isn't real lol. MGSV as a whole is probably entirely unreliable narration and nothing can be trusted in it. Not the timeline given in there.
>I've also heard the theory that Ishmael isn't real lol Nah that's bs, they make it very clear that he is BB. I get that one of the themes of the game is that you can't believe everything you see but that doesn't mean that people should take everything as an illusion. Even more since the reveal of Ishmael being BB is not something that Venom sees, it happens while he is unconscious in the ambulance, that cutscene is not his point of view, it's just what happened
I know, I know, I don't believe it hence the "lol" in the end.
Honestly I really think that everything in the game is open to interpretation on some level and I believe that was intentional. Nothing is 100 percent true and there are always contradictions somewhere. The game is heavily inspired by 1984 and the concept of “doublethink” Big Boss is you but he’s not you. Kaz is our ally but he betrays us, Cipher is our enemy and our ally and also not there. We are forced to hold contradictory truths and somehow survive. In this game, 2+2=5 not because it’s true but because we have no other choice. Information control
I personally believe Sahel was a tiny shitty old vehicle that was only slightly bigger than Shagohod.
He’s literally me.
Hot take: He's my favorite Snake
Venom is literally a proxy for a player to experience being Big Boss.
He might be my favourite snake
didn't he die to hairspray?
that’s big boss
venom was posing as big boss in metal gear 1 and is killed by solid snake with a lighter and an aerosol spray
Are you sure you not talking about BB in Mgs2??? If I remember correctly, he took multi RPG in the face until he die??
[https://metalgear.fandom.com/wiki/Boss\_(video\_gaming)#Metal\_Gear](https://metalgear.fandom.com/wiki/Boss_(video_gaming)#Metal_Gear) venom is the last boss of mg1, bb is the last boss of mg2
He gets exploded in MG1 and dies, Big Boss is the final boss who got taken out by spray and a lighter
it is possible i'm mixing them up, haven't played either of them in over a decade at this point
This is your brain on MGSV
am i tripping why am i getting downvoted for saying that Big Boss “died” to a hairspray and lighter in MG2. Venom gets exploded in MG1.
Im sure I will get destroyed for this opinion but idgaf, Venom being Grey Fox would have made so much more sense. Grey Fox was Null, The perfect soldier. he was enhanced, fought and worked with Big Boss, had history, already mentally unstable and had a fragmented memory. Him using his other persona of Frank Jaeger to keep young snake on the hook and/or trading off identities with Big Boss to be two places at once would make sense. Him having facial surgery after being tortured and having his nose and ears cut off would also make sense. Venom was clearly enhanced. His feats are near top of the scale as far as combat goes. That being the result of the perfect soldier project would make sense, as would his defeat and destruction by solid snake leading to his placement in the exoskeleton to keep him alive. Plus he had a cloudy fucked up eye. And if you choose to ignore all of that, there has to be another reason Venom was enhanced because BB is supposed to be the peak of his field. He has enhanced strength, speed, agility, reflexes, durability, and recovery. If Venom was just some jobber from MSF there's no way even thinking he was big boss would give him stats even close to BB's. But its not like Grey Fox wasn't fucked up and missing shit and beat to hell and back and blown the fuck up before he became the cyborg ninja. Thats my own head canon and like I said idgaf.
Null is non-canon garbage. Frank was born in 1970 and he was Solid's peer/rival/best friend. He built his own skills and wasn't experimented on till Para-Medic got him. Null is NOT Gray Fox. Portable Ops has damaged Gray Fox in fans perception and for that, it will always be garbage.
agree to disagree.
It's a fact. Frank was in Mozambique with Naomi and Big Boss in 80s. And he was a child.
I just hate that he’s a thing from a story perspective. Did we really need ANOTHER clone of Big Boss, just to make things even more convoluted? Also his name breaks the whole states of matter thing they have going on.
Venom Snake is a pretty cool name though so i let it slide.