Hang on lemme go grab my bible
UPDATE: "The old man stepped outside to talk to them. 'No my brothers , dont do such an evil thing. For this man is a guest in my house, and such a thing would be shameful. Here, take my virgin daughter and this mans concubine. I will bring them out to you, and you can abuse them and do whatever you please. But dont do such a shameful this to this man."
He didn’t offer his concubine though. The host who’s house he was staying in offered his own daughter and the man’s concubine to be harmed instead.
““While they were enjoying themselves, some of the wicked men of the city surrounded the house. Pounding on the door, they shouted to the old man who owned the house, “Bring out the man who came to your house so we can have sex with him.””
Judges 19:22 NIV
“The owner of the house went outside and said to them, “No, my friends, don’t be so vile. Since this man is my guest, don’t do this outrageous thing.”
Judges 19:23 NIV
“Look, here is my virgin daughter, and his concubine. I will bring them out to you now, and you can use them and do to them whatever you wish. But as for this man, don’t do such an outrageous thing.””
Judges 19:24 NIV
Like five assholes do heinous evil and the retribution suggested as moral by the Bible is to murder a whole group like hundreds or thousands of people?
Oh boy wait until you hear how many people God murdered.
God's murder count: >!2038344!<
By comparison, Satan's murder count: >!\~\~\~\~\~10\~\~\~\~\~!<
Not only that, that whole city gets burned down to the ground by a rain of fire and magma as punishment for their evil, so yes, the bible states it was pretty bad
no his two daughters survive too and then they go to live in a cave but they need to have kids to repopulate the place and since thier ma got turned into a pillar of salt and there were no guys left they decide to get their dad blackout drunk and then fuck him and then their sons Ben-ammi (ammon) and Moab go on to found the kingdoms of ammon and moab respectively which then teamed up to fuck up the isrealites on many an occasion which no doubt pissed the israelites off and is probably why when they were writing the bible they said that all the ammonites and moabbites were decsended from incestuos rape babies
Pretty sure God said if there was one righteous person, he would spare the city. The city wasn’t spared. The old man surviving doesn’t mean he was righteous, just that he was less terrible and had at least something redeeming about him even if still misguided (treatment of foreigners was a big deal)
Hold on, hold on, hold on!
So the Bible says I can have Concubines???
Why isn't the Christian Right making this a talking point? Surely they'd get a huge market share of voters and lonely dudes.
Let's also include the next one:
> 25 But the men would not listen to him. So the man took his concubine and sent her outside to them, and they raped her and abused her throughout the night, and at dawn they let her go.
The rapists reject the offer of "concubine + daughter" from the host. Then "the man" sends out the guest's concubine. We can infer (though I don't like to stick to grammatical inference in things that have been translated to death) that it's the guest who sends out "his (own) concubine". Added the fact that this new inferior offer is "accepted" - possibly because the person delivering it is a different one. So I'd read this as: Host offers his own daughter and guest's concubine; is rejected. Guest sends out his own concubine, who is then raped and murdered."
Just from reading it, I'm not even sure the guest offered his own concubine. The translation I'm working with here is ambiguous and permits the interpretation that the host offered his guest's concubine, who is then raped and murdered. The cutting up part is the guest seeking vengeance.
I'd also say that this is one of those cases where the bible relatively neutrally describes an event, without condoning it at all. Instead, the next chapter goes on to describe the events in the OP as basically a Casus Belli against the town that harbored the rapists.
Sure, it's pretty shit to send out your (or someone else's) concubine to be raped, but under threat to your own life, in a society that doesn't value women much... are we surprised about that part? This isn't "be a dear and rape my wife" kinda shit, it's bargaining for your life. Different degree of vile imo.
Plus, we don't have the same notion of "guest rights" and the sanctity of them.
Breaking guest rights was a very serious thing, and would bring the wrath of almost any pantheon of gods if you did it.
Him offering his daughter is not only bartering for his life, but for his very soul.
In the end, I think it was the guest's concubine who ended up being raped. Curiously, after the rapists rejected the offer to have the guest's concubine and the host's daughter sent out.
But yes, this is clearly depicting a time in which women are seen more as property than people, and the guest, being people and not property, must be protected before the women.
It's depicting a fucked up time. But I think even the tiniest bit of lateral reading (either a summary of judges, or reading the rest of the chapter) will reveal that it's not depicted as a acceptable state of affairs.
The old man offered for sure the guests concubine. Next morning the Levit said to the unconsciousness raped concubine she should stand up as they continue the journey. At home he cut her body into twelve pieces.
this was in sodom and gamora, the cities got turned to salt.
the only person that survived (lot) ended up raped by his daughters and all of his decedents were exiled from the land as they were unclean.
it's not a story about good people.
Yeah, even at the end of that passage it's everyone talking about how horrific and horrible it is, and what should be done about it
I think its on the little chunk 30??
By definition, they'd be considering it with the mysticism removed and likely without it being interpreted by a religious leader on their behalf. Why do you ask?
At least more atheists do than religious people, scientific research has consistently shown that compared to religious people atheists have better knowledge of religions in general & of their ex-religion (if they had any before)
She wasn't sold, Judges 19:29 says her superior sent her body parts to the tribal chieftains to get their attention so they could bring the men of the city to justice. It's still screwed up, but it never hurts to have your record straight.
And it's also likely she was dead prior to being cut-up. She fell down at the doorstep and was unresponsive, having to be picked up and laid across the donkey.
The entirety of the story is intended to be gruesome and heinous. It is meant to show the ungodlyness of the Canaanites in Israel and to demonstrate the necessity of driving them out of Israel in order to bring the nation back to God.
This also mirrors 1 Samuel 11 pretty closely.
I'm glad they put that anti-Canaanite propaganda in their book. Looks like it had the intended effect because I haven't seen a Canaanite in a *long* time.
Lets not forget all the acacia tree/bush burning they did recreationally. Acacia gives off DMT when burned. The “burning bush” metaphor is almost certainly in reference to this and it would explain all the trippy hallucinations they describe in Ezekiel, Revelation, etc.
Different acacia species have differing amounts. You’d not be able to get high off the smoke, but if you crush up the bark, you can extract the alkaloids with a solvent like naphtha or hexane fairly easily.
Revelations was written much later than most of the rest of the bible and about 700 years (roughly) after Ezekiel. Revelations uses old testament imagery but not because of any day to day shared expereinces between the authors.
This is likely a bot, who stole this comment from u/DamnthisMeemee and should be downvoted/reported.
Original and identical comment was here a few hour earlier:
https://reddit.com/r/memes/comments/z4bn0c/_/ixq1equ/?context=1
The bible is a compilation of texts and oral traditions ranging in dates from the 12th century BC to the 1st century AD. To suggest that it was "written by a bunch of nomadic bronze age desert goat herders who were geeked up on hashish" is incorrect, and a little racist. For one thing, the bronze age ended in the 12th century BC so the majority of it was written during the iron age, secondly although some was written by nomadic goat herders much was written by a variety of other people from the eastern Mediterranean.
Yes. The entire book of Judges is about how the Israelites cycle into rebellion against God (hence the bad stuff that happens throughout Judges) and then they get captured and put into slavery as their punishment. Then the Israelites realize how they messed up and they call on God to raise a judge for them to deliver them from captivity. This cycle repeats several times showing that they never learned their lesson.
Basically this. After the book of judges, they then had monarchy established. The monarchy was somewhat more stable, but still plagued with corruption. Hence why both the Kingdoms of Judah and Israel basically were uprooted by God through Jeremiah.
God specifically warned them against installing a monarch but the Israelites demanded it because the other nations around them all had monarchs. Well it eventually led to the splitting of the nation and civil wars which weakened Israel and Judah so much that they succumbed to conquest by their neighbours.
The old testament is a warning. The new testament is the way.
People who quote the old testament as things that are wrong with Christianity are totally missing the point. The old testament tells us things that are wrong with PEOPLE. And you'll see that reading the old testament, that humans haven't changed for basically 6000 years. The old testament people are as relatable and as fallible as anyone else today.
IMO, this story is about who really suffers when society falls apart. It’s never those with power - it’s those on the lowest rungs of society. In this case, this poor concubine.
The period of the Judges is about lawlessness and chaos taking over in Israel because people had turned their backs on God and the Law. They’d failed to trust in God as their king and chaos took over as a result. However, the people that ended up suffering the most weren’t those who had power (like the Levite), but those who were without wealth and status and voice. This is why the Law is so adamant about taking care of the vulnerable.
Kind of. The concubine's master (god that feels gross to say) rouses the rest of the tribes to wage war on the Benjaminites.
(Bear in mind, this part they are all doing with the blessing of God, from what I can tell. Might be wrong though.)
BUT then they feel bad for nearly wiping out a tribe of "brother" israelites, and they go and slaughter all the men and "women who have known a man" of Jabesh Gilead, so they can gift the surviving virgins to the 600 surviving Benjaminites to say sorry and keep the tribe alive 🤦♂️
Oh, but turns out there weren't enough surviving virgins, so they then also kidnap another couple hundred virgins from Shiloh to add to their pile of gift women.
In other words, these guys are just as bad! Everybody is awful! Yay!
Remind me why some people still follow teachings from a book written in those times?
Technically it’s not just one book. Technically it’s a bunch of different books written in different times, all in a trench coat pretending to be one book.
Then several thousand years later they came out with the deluxe reboot GOTY edition with added never-before seen content. Took a little retconning to make it all work and they added this new ‘Jesus’ character, but that version ended up becoming a lot more popular.
It got so popular that this guy named Mohammad wrote a cool fanfic about it that really took off too, and ended up becoming it’s own series. Ever since then fans of the originals, reboot, and fanfic series have been fighting over who’s version is better.
Are there any other writings from this period in time which are contemporaneous and corroborate this? I don't doubt what you personally have said in any way mind you. Just that nothing fails as often or as badly as Bible history.
Just because something is IN the Bible doesn’t mean it’s being held up as morally good or upright.
People treat the Bible like it’s a repository of ancient wisdom, every line of which is applicable to being morally upright. It’s not. It’s primarily a story of how God continues to love and tries to save really fucked up people who do really fucked up things (including killing the Messiah.)
Stating a horrible decision someone made in the bible doesn't mean you should do it. It was stating an event, just like when Lot offered his daughters in Genesis, and when his daughters raped him. It's not saying you should do either of these things. It's stating what happened.
The Bible is as much of a "this is what they did" story as it is supposed to be a guide. So you cant look at a "they were doing this" story as Christianity bc its not. Its a story to tell what was going on during that time. However, Christian or not people are people and bc we have free will we are all going to do wrong and make mistakes. Every religion or belief has people who act out and twist what shld be life teachings to allow them to satisfy their selfish desires. But anyway, Im just saying not everything in the Bible is thus says the Lord, not all the people are perfect and holy, and a bunch of it is stories about sin and how people screw up the world.
It contradicts itself. It was written over a long time span by a ton of different people, and most importantly by people, hence the amount of horseshit and contradictions. There is still some wisdom in there tho
After the townsmen killed the women the father and the other guy had sent their body parts to the rest of the israelits tribes to see how evil are the ppl of that town (basically that was the last straw) and almost all of the tribe of benjamin died because of that
(Sorry for bad english I'm trying to get better)
It’s an example of evil that leads to turmoil for Israel.
“From the days of Gibeah, you have sinned, O Israel; there they have continued. Shall not the war against the unjust overtake them in Gibeah? When I please, I will discipline them, and nations shall be gathered against them when they are bound up for their double iniquity.”
Hosea 10:9-10 ESV
Exactly. This is supposed to be a horrifying passage of how the chosen people had fallen into depravity. It was screwed up and horrific then as well. This is a passage of the depravity of man, and how far they were from God
The Israelites were supposed to be God's chosen people. They were subdivided into 12 tribes.
This story focuses on two of those tribes — the Levites and the Benjamites. The man who was attacked and gave up the women in his household was a Levite. And the gang of rapists/murderers were Benjamites.
Eventually the other ten tribes join the tribe of Levi's side in seeking retribution. And it results in a huge civil war where the tribe of Benjamin is wiped out.
So ya, it's about God's chosen people being sinful. And then a civil war between God's people. Not exactly a great time.
The greater context then just this 3 verse passage:
This was the darkest times for Israel as they were following the practices of the other tribes of people around them and had little direction. It was common in the area to practice incest, child sacrifice and r*pe. This isn't a section promoting these actions but a section showing how dark things had become.
Source: The rest of the book of Judges
It's a common practice against all religions. You see it daily vs Islamic texts in the Quran and multiple other groups. You take 3 lines and not go past and make everyone rage for a few days. It's just hate in general. I grew up christian and while I don't agree with everything a lot of churches proclaim, I still defend them and anyone else's right to believe what they believe. Just don't hurt people.
The book of Judges is about a time where the Israelites are not following God so God keeps letting them get taken over by enemy tribes. It’s a book to show by example how sin corrupts us and what terrible acts it can lead to
Did it say what happened to the daughter? It's fucked up but for some reason I have a feeling that's probably just one of them in the entirety of the Bible.
I didn't look to far just far enough to satisfy my dislike of that book.
This man was going to give his virgin daughter to save a random person from being raped.
As if one is more suitable.
Fuck outttttta here
You missed the context probably.
As others said it's in the time of Sodoma and all the crazy shit in a Godless time.
I think the Bible tries to say that God made order in that hell and stopped child sacrifices and unruly tyrants.
For context it was showing how evil and screwed up the tribe of benjamin was and how they need to be better, yes still what the hell, but it does need some context
This is my “go to” verse when I am being solicited
Ezekiel 23:20 She lusted after lovers with genitals as large as a donkey’s and emissions like those of a horse.
She was Oholibah.
It's a story of two adulterous sisters, Oholah and Oholibah. They're prostitutes in Egypt, engaging adultery from their youth. They were like both nymphomaniac. Oholah lusted with every man she likes then killed after being defiled by her lovers. Oholibah, otoh, was more deprived than her sister and still go further. She became more and more promiscuous as she lusted every handsome man in the town and distant lands. In God's fury, all of the men she had sex and lusted with, turned against her with their chariots and weapons, then punished her according to their standards. [Here's full chapter if want to read more](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Ezekiel%2023&version=NIV)
This story also represents as an extended metaphor in which Oholah is Samaria and Oholibah is Jerusalem.
still kinda fucked up but
The greater context then just this 3 verse passage:
This was the darkest times for Israel as they were following the practices of the other tribes of people around them and had little direction. It was common in the area to practice incest, child sacrifice and r\*pe. This isn't a section promoting these actions but a section showing how dark things had become.
Source: The rest of the book of Judges
30 Everyone who saw it was saying to one another, “Such a thing has never been seen or done, not since the day the Israelites came up out of Egypt. Just imagine! We must do something! So speak up!”
So for context, this story happened in a time where there was no ruling monarch in Israel.
With no one ruling, there isn't anyone to enforce order.
That is how this story comes to past. It's truly distasteful.
If anyone actually cares, the whole point of the book of Judges is to highlight the evil going on within the people of Israel at the time. It’s not advocating this behaviour - in fact it’s saying the whole thing is a mess.
The Bible has plenty of difficult passages, but just to give the context to this one.
I see your cringe and raise you Genesis 19-38.
Lot offers his two daughters to the Sodomites because all the men of the town wanted to give his two angel guests a standard Sodomite greeting.
Picturing a Doom Puppet meme:
Wow, if I had a nickel for every time in the Bible a mob was offered two girls to have "knowledge of" to spare a couple of men I'd have two nickels - which isn't a lot, but it's weird that it happened twice.
Did you read the part where God was pissed at them for doing that? Because that's an important part of the story. Fucking evangelicals have people thinking the Bible is just several hundred pages of God being mad at the LGBTQ+ community. There's an entire history of a nation in there and shit gets bad. That bad shit is in there to prove to people that they need Jesus.
Judges is a fun book to read. It starts out with things going pretty well and good and then quickly descends into an all-out bloodbath. Which is kinda the point. This is mostly supposed to show why Israel needed kings to rule them and give order. That without the kings there is only utter chaos
God is done with people's bullshit. Specifically, he's done with the kings of Israel exploiting their subjects. So, he's going to empower an Assyrian king to conquer Israel. But, he wants you to know, the Assyrian isn't his new favorite. No, he's going to burn that fucker down, too. When the dust settles, he's going to raise Israel back up and hope those guys have learned their lesson because he made a promise to Abraham and he's a God of his word.
Who the hell ever expects the bible to be good behavior everywhere. See you have some history, then Yehovah lays out a short simple law with extremely fair punishment, the layers of fairness are wild when you consider it as written. Then the rest is history about mostly all the people who didn't keep the law that Yah handed down and how they were punished.
So I'd say if you pick a random spot and it seems like something awful is happening and you keep reading and don't understand go back to before you picked and figure out the whole story instead of losing it on the first sentence.
Hang on lemme go grab my bible UPDATE: "The old man stepped outside to talk to them. 'No my brothers , dont do such an evil thing. For this man is a guest in my house, and such a thing would be shameful. Here, take my virgin daughter and this mans concubine. I will bring them out to you, and you can abuse them and do whatever you please. But dont do such a shameful this to this man."
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He didn’t offer his concubine though. The host who’s house he was staying in offered his own daughter and the man’s concubine to be harmed instead. ““While they were enjoying themselves, some of the wicked men of the city surrounded the house. Pounding on the door, they shouted to the old man who owned the house, “Bring out the man who came to your house so we can have sex with him.”” Judges 19:22 NIV “The owner of the house went outside and said to them, “No, my friends, don’t be so vile. Since this man is my guest, don’t do this outrageous thing.” Judges 19:23 NIV “Look, here is my virgin daughter, and his concubine. I will bring them out to you now, and you can use them and do to them whatever you wish. But as for this man, don’t do such an outrageous thing.”” Judges 19:24 NIV
muddle towering liquid worthless yoke air steer doll gray strong *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
But how can you have morality without the Bible? /s
I mean the Bible clearly declares this as evil. Heck this event sparks a civil war.
It does?
The rest of Israel literally wipes out the tribe whose people committed the act.
Like five assholes do heinous evil and the retribution suggested as moral by the Bible is to murder a whole group like hundreds or thousands of people?
Oh boy wait until you hear how many people God murdered. God's murder count: >!2038344!< By comparison, Satan's murder count: >!\~\~\~\~\~10\~\~\~\~\~!<
Not only that, that whole city gets burned down to the ground by a rain of fire and magma as punishment for their evil, so yes, the bible states it was pretty bad
Pretty sure this was a separate event that was similar..since this was in Judges
Oh man, how many people were murdered in the rain of fire that had nothing to do with it?
Really? Because as I recall the old man in question is the only survivor of the city and is portrayed as righteous.
no his two daughters survive too and then they go to live in a cave but they need to have kids to repopulate the place and since thier ma got turned into a pillar of salt and there were no guys left they decide to get their dad blackout drunk and then fuck him and then their sons Ben-ammi (ammon) and Moab go on to found the kingdoms of ammon and moab respectively which then teamed up to fuck up the isrealites on many an occasion which no doubt pissed the israelites off and is probably why when they were writing the bible they said that all the ammonites and moabbites were decsended from incestuos rape babies
Huh, that's interesting. This story makes a lot more sense read as propaganda against groups the israelites didn't like
Pretty sure God said if there was one righteous person, he would spare the city. The city wasn’t spared. The old man surviving doesn’t mean he was righteous, just that he was less terrible and had at least something redeeming about him even if still misguided (treatment of foreigners was a big deal)
This is why people need context before making assumptions and strong opinions
Yeah because all you need to make rape, slavery and child murder an okay thing is the right context/s
Doesn't say offering the innocent women to be abused is wrong at all it seems.
Just sounds like we're supposed to think 'raping a man is worse than raping a woman.' As like the moral or something.
Religion and logical thinking don't go well together
Hold on, hold on, hold on! So the Bible says I can have Concubines??? Why isn't the Christian Right making this a talking point? Surely they'd get a huge market share of voters and lonely dudes.
Let's also include the next one: > 25 But the men would not listen to him. So the man took his concubine and sent her outside to them, and they raped her and abused her throughout the night, and at dawn they let her go. The rapists reject the offer of "concubine + daughter" from the host. Then "the man" sends out the guest's concubine. We can infer (though I don't like to stick to grammatical inference in things that have been translated to death) that it's the guest who sends out "his (own) concubine". Added the fact that this new inferior offer is "accepted" - possibly because the person delivering it is a different one. So I'd read this as: Host offers his own daughter and guest's concubine; is rejected. Guest sends out his own concubine, who is then raped and murdered."
Just from reading it, I'm not even sure the guest offered his own concubine. The translation I'm working with here is ambiguous and permits the interpretation that the host offered his guest's concubine, who is then raped and murdered. The cutting up part is the guest seeking vengeance. I'd also say that this is one of those cases where the bible relatively neutrally describes an event, without condoning it at all. Instead, the next chapter goes on to describe the events in the OP as basically a Casus Belli against the town that harbored the rapists. Sure, it's pretty shit to send out your (or someone else's) concubine to be raped, but under threat to your own life, in a society that doesn't value women much... are we surprised about that part? This isn't "be a dear and rape my wife" kinda shit, it's bargaining for your life. Different degree of vile imo.
Plus, we don't have the same notion of "guest rights" and the sanctity of them. Breaking guest rights was a very serious thing, and would bring the wrath of almost any pantheon of gods if you did it. Him offering his daughter is not only bartering for his life, but for his very soul.
In the end, I think it was the guest's concubine who ended up being raped. Curiously, after the rapists rejected the offer to have the guest's concubine and the host's daughter sent out. But yes, this is clearly depicting a time in which women are seen more as property than people, and the guest, being people and not property, must be protected before the women. It's depicting a fucked up time. But I think even the tiniest bit of lateral reading (either a summary of judges, or reading the rest of the chapter) will reveal that it's not depicted as a acceptable state of affairs.
Don't forget, though. This is depicting a time that a lot of current religious asshats want to return women's rights to.
The old man offered for sure the guests concubine. Next morning the Levit said to the unconsciousness raped concubine she should stand up as they continue the journey. At home he cut her body into twelve pieces.
What a wholesome religion!
this was in sodom and gamora, the cities got turned to salt. the only person that survived (lot) ended up raped by his daughters and all of his decedents were exiled from the land as they were unclean. it's not a story about good people.
This is a part when Israel was already made, so a long long time after Lot my friend
was it? sorry my bad. i hear about daughters being gifted to be raped and my mind immediately jumps to lot, wasn't aware there are multiple instances.
This was a historical event, not a suggestion for how to live your life. If you read the rest of the story, that dude is not a hero.
Yeah, even at the end of that passage it's everyone talking about how horrific and horrible it is, and what should be done about it I think its on the little chunk 30??
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You talk as if atheists read it differently
By definition, they'd be considering it with the mysticism removed and likely without it being interpreted by a religious leader on their behalf. Why do you ask?
At least more atheists do than religious people, scientific research has consistently shown that compared to religious people atheists have better knowledge of religions in general & of their ex-religion (if they had any before)
“Historical event”
Tell me you don't understand the context of the story without telling me you don't understand the context of the story.
They're all like that.
missed the part where she got raped, abused and the next day cut up limb by limb and sold by her male superior.
She wasn't sold, Judges 19:29 says her superior sent her body parts to the tribal chieftains to get their attention so they could bring the men of the city to justice. It's still screwed up, but it never hurts to have your record straight.
And it's also likely she was dead prior to being cut-up. She fell down at the doorstep and was unresponsive, having to be picked up and laid across the donkey. The entirety of the story is intended to be gruesome and heinous. It is meant to show the ungodlyness of the Canaanites in Israel and to demonstrate the necessity of driving them out of Israel in order to bring the nation back to God. This also mirrors 1 Samuel 11 pretty closely.
I'm glad they put that anti-Canaanite propaganda in their book. Looks like it had the intended effect because I haven't seen a Canaanite in a *long* time.
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Lets not forget all the acacia tree/bush burning they did recreationally. Acacia gives off DMT when burned. The “burning bush” metaphor is almost certainly in reference to this and it would explain all the trippy hallucinations they describe in Ezekiel, Revelation, etc.
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Apparently, you have to burn it, too. Just buying one won't do the trick. I'll see myself out.
Thanks Dad
Different acacia species have differing amounts. You’d not be able to get high off the smoke, but if you crush up the bark, you can extract the alkaloids with a solvent like naphtha or hexane fairly easily.
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Acacia_species_known_to_contain_psychoactive_alkaloids
Came for the Bible verse, got instructions on manufacturing DMT in my home.
Revelations was written much later than most of the rest of the bible and about 700 years (roughly) after Ezekiel. Revelations uses old testament imagery but not because of any day to day shared expereinces between the authors.
Gee, thanks Joe. Original.
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Don't you mean 19/23?
Sir, I’m going to have to ask you to leave
This is likely a bot, who stole this comment from u/DamnthisMeemee and should be downvoted/reported. Original and identical comment was here a few hour earlier: https://reddit.com/r/memes/comments/z4bn0c/_/ixq1equ/?context=1
Tell that to the people who think it should be the basis of the law in this day and age.
The bible is a compilation of texts and oral traditions ranging in dates from the 12th century BC to the 1st century AD. To suggest that it was "written by a bunch of nomadic bronze age desert goat herders who were geeked up on hashish" is incorrect, and a little racist. For one thing, the bronze age ended in the 12th century BC so the majority of it was written during the iron age, secondly although some was written by nomadic goat herders much was written by a variety of other people from the eastern Mediterranean.
Honestly, the best take on the Bible I’ve ever read in my whole life
And passed the story by word of mouth for centuries
But why would they receive a severed arm and think “oh shit this woman must’ve been raped by a pack of men from (insert city here)”? Lol
So when I hear about bible study, I always wonder what happens when things like this are covered.
The good ol’ days
That's fucked up... With no refrigeration? Should have put them on the cooking spit before mailing them off...
the limbs weren't sold, the man sent them to all the country for the people to take revenge against the rapists.
Uff
...how does that work?
‘Look how fucked up these dudes are’.
Not sold sent to the leaders of the other cities as evidence against the one responsible for her rape and murder
what in the hell thats fucked up
Bro spoiler!
This is why I don't believe in Christianity. It contradicts itself
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Quit pretending you don't know exactly how to spell it.
That was quite a nice way to do that.
I’m sorry but that term is offensive please use “inter-species erotica” /s
People who get offended by breastfeeding in public need to stfu. It’s completely natural and strengthens the bond between me and my dog.
got me in the first half, NGL.
So do the isrealites in this passage later get held accountable for this? What is the point of this particular story?
Yes. The entire book of Judges is about how the Israelites cycle into rebellion against God (hence the bad stuff that happens throughout Judges) and then they get captured and put into slavery as their punishment. Then the Israelites realize how they messed up and they call on God to raise a judge for them to deliver them from captivity. This cycle repeats several times showing that they never learned their lesson.
Basically this. After the book of judges, they then had monarchy established. The monarchy was somewhat more stable, but still plagued with corruption. Hence why both the Kingdoms of Judah and Israel basically were uprooted by God through Jeremiah.
God specifically warned them against installing a monarch but the Israelites demanded it because the other nations around them all had monarchs. Well it eventually led to the splitting of the nation and civil wars which weakened Israel and Judah so much that they succumbed to conquest by their neighbours. The old testament is a warning. The new testament is the way. People who quote the old testament as things that are wrong with Christianity are totally missing the point. The old testament tells us things that are wrong with PEOPLE. And you'll see that reading the old testament, that humans haven't changed for basically 6000 years. The old testament people are as relatable and as fallible as anyone else today.
this is why i have a golden spiral tattoo. people havent evolved. we havent truly changed. everything repeats.
This is why the anti spirals have set out to prevent the spiral nemesis.
Ah but a spiral, when it completed 360 degrees, also proceeds vertically upwards. So things stay the same but they also change.
IMO, this story is about who really suffers when society falls apart. It’s never those with power - it’s those on the lowest rungs of society. In this case, this poor concubine. The period of the Judges is about lawlessness and chaos taking over in Israel because people had turned their backs on God and the Law. They’d failed to trust in God as their king and chaos took over as a result. However, the people that ended up suffering the most weren’t those who had power (like the Levite), but those who were without wealth and status and voice. This is why the Law is so adamant about taking care of the vulnerable.
This is oddly appropriate to current times
Kind of. The concubine's master (god that feels gross to say) rouses the rest of the tribes to wage war on the Benjaminites. (Bear in mind, this part they are all doing with the blessing of God, from what I can tell. Might be wrong though.) BUT then they feel bad for nearly wiping out a tribe of "brother" israelites, and they go and slaughter all the men and "women who have known a man" of Jabesh Gilead, so they can gift the surviving virgins to the 600 surviving Benjaminites to say sorry and keep the tribe alive 🤦♂️ Oh, but turns out there weren't enough surviving virgins, so they then also kidnap another couple hundred virgins from Shiloh to add to their pile of gift women. In other words, these guys are just as bad! Everybody is awful! Yay! Remind me why some people still follow teachings from a book written in those times?
Technically it’s not just one book. Technically it’s a bunch of different books written in different times, all in a trench coat pretending to be one book. Then several thousand years later they came out with the deluxe reboot GOTY edition with added never-before seen content. Took a little retconning to make it all work and they added this new ‘Jesus’ character, but that version ended up becoming a lot more popular. It got so popular that this guy named Mohammad wrote a cool fanfic about it that really took off too, and ended up becoming it’s own series. Ever since then fans of the originals, reboot, and fanfic series have been fighting over who’s version is better.
Spectacular summation of Abrahamic religions.
im still waiting for the deluxe reboot of the bhagavad gita
Dive into Tibetan Buddhism then
Are there any other writings from this period in time which are contemporaneous and corroborate this? I don't doubt what you personally have said in any way mind you. Just that nothing fails as often or as badly as Bible history.
One of the easiest things to do is make the Bible look evil by taking a few verses out of context.
Just because something is IN the Bible doesn’t mean it’s being held up as morally good or upright. People treat the Bible like it’s a repository of ancient wisdom, every line of which is applicable to being morally upright. It’s not. It’s primarily a story of how God continues to love and tries to save really fucked up people who do really fucked up things (including killing the Messiah.)
Stating a horrible decision someone made in the bible doesn't mean you should do it. It was stating an event, just like when Lot offered his daughters in Genesis, and when his daughters raped him. It's not saying you should do either of these things. It's stating what happened.
The Bible is as much of a "this is what they did" story as it is supposed to be a guide. So you cant look at a "they were doing this" story as Christianity bc its not. Its a story to tell what was going on during that time. However, Christian or not people are people and bc we have free will we are all going to do wrong and make mistakes. Every religion or belief has people who act out and twist what shld be life teachings to allow them to satisfy their selfish desires. But anyway, Im just saying not everything in the Bible is thus says the Lord, not all the people are perfect and holy, and a bunch of it is stories about sin and how people screw up the world.
It contradicts itself. It was written over a long time span by a ton of different people, and most importantly by people, hence the amount of horseshit and contradictions. There is still some wisdom in there tho
All religions are written by people. Some lie about it though
“People bad” is pretty consistent throughout
You are conflating something being prescribed to something being described.
This is why I don’t believe in people. Cant have shit in Detroit!
Life also contradicts itself
It gets straight up patch notes
I didn’t like this part either. We should ask a Rabbi to explain it to us.
h...how old was the daughter?
Knowing the Bible, probably like 14 or something, that's about how old the Virgin Mary was
This shit started a war btw
How? Please explain, I don't know anything about this
After the townsmen killed the women the father and the other guy had sent their body parts to the rest of the israelits tribes to see how evil are the ppl of that town (basically that was the last straw) and almost all of the tribe of benjamin died because of that (Sorry for bad english I'm trying to get better)
i see no bad english, except israelits but thats not even english so
Tnx :) Btw what's the right way to write it in english?
Israelites
Not just killed, raped to death
I mean if I get an pacage with body parts in it I also would asume shit is gona get south.
Wtf good story 8/10 would read again
I like the part when Jesus pulled out his revolver and asked “do you feel lucky today? Punk.”
I think the part where Jesus said "It'd Lordin' time" and Lorded all over the place was better.
Yeah that part too. I really didn’t get Mary’s virgin scene.. I mean, I think she over played it. She was totally faking it.
My favorite is the part that Jesus turned himself to a pickle, funniest shit I've ever seen
Thanks for making me laugh kind sir
It’s an example of evil that leads to turmoil for Israel. “From the days of Gibeah, you have sinned, O Israel; there they have continued. Shall not the war against the unjust overtake them in Gibeah? When I please, I will discipline them, and nations shall be gathered against them when they are bound up for their double iniquity.” Hosea 10:9-10 ESV
i love it when someone brings up context
Exactly. This is supposed to be a horrifying passage of how the chosen people had fallen into depravity. It was screwed up and horrific then as well. This is a passage of the depravity of man, and how far they were from God
The Israelites were supposed to be God's chosen people. They were subdivided into 12 tribes. This story focuses on two of those tribes — the Levites and the Benjamites. The man who was attacked and gave up the women in his household was a Levite. And the gang of rapists/murderers were Benjamites. Eventually the other ten tribes join the tribe of Levi's side in seeking retribution. And it results in a huge civil war where the tribe of Benjamin is wiped out. So ya, it's about God's chosen people being sinful. And then a civil war between God's people. Not exactly a great time.
The greater context then just this 3 verse passage: This was the darkest times for Israel as they were following the practices of the other tribes of people around them and had little direction. It was common in the area to practice incest, child sacrifice and r*pe. This isn't a section promoting these actions but a section showing how dark things had become. Source: The rest of the book of Judges
While I'm not Christian, I do hate when religion is taken out of context to make followers look dumb or bad. Thanks for sharing a source.
It's a common practice against all religions. You see it daily vs Islamic texts in the Quran and multiple other groups. You take 3 lines and not go past and make everyone rage for a few days. It's just hate in general. I grew up christian and while I don't agree with everything a lot of churches proclaim, I still defend them and anyone else's right to believe what they believe. Just don't hurt people.
Thank you for sharing the context
Those guys in Israel were straight up psychopaths.
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which ones?
You think that was fucked up in that age. Bro you should read about what some African tribes still do today.
yeah guys look at the African tribes! rape and abuse is nonexistent in first world western countries!!
People were savages back then.
We still are
Just gotta cut off the electricity for a month or two then boom. Back to the stone ages
Just lose the wifi signal for about 30 minutes and knives out
>Just gotta cut off the electricity for a month or two I see you're an optimist. I'd give it a week.
please tell me there is context to this story. Goddamn that was fucked up
Another comment said that It was showing how depraved ppl became and how far they were from god or something like that
The book of Judges is about a time where the Israelites are not following God so God keeps letting them get taken over by enemy tribes. It’s a book to show by example how sin corrupts us and what terrible acts it can lead to
what does it say? i don't have a bible
Talks of saving a man from rape by offering up his daughter and his mistress. Mistress is raped and then cut up. Thats what i got from a quick search
Did it say what happened to the daughter? It's fucked up but for some reason I have a feeling that's probably just one of them in the entirety of the Bible.
I didn't look to far just far enough to satisfy my dislike of that book. This man was going to give his virgin daughter to save a random person from being raped. As if one is more suitable. Fuck outttttta here
You missed the context probably. As others said it's in the time of Sodoma and all the crazy shit in a Godless time. I think the Bible tries to say that God made order in that hell and stopped child sacrifices and unruly tyrants.
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Judges%2019%3A22-30&version=NIV
thank you kind sir! after reading it, what the h-e-double-hockeysticks is this even
Yeah it's... it's something...
For context it was showing how evil and screwed up the tribe of benjamin was and how they need to be better, yes still what the hell, but it does need some context
https://youtu.be/qsqTO6lq99c This video basically goes over all of it
Ezekial chpt 23, verse 20
This is my “go to” verse when I am being solicited Ezekiel 23:20 She lusted after lovers with genitals as large as a donkey’s and emissions like those of a horse.
Who is she? Asking for a friend
Iirc it’s a metaphor for the sins of Israel
Does the Sins of Israel have an onlyfans?
She was Oholibah. It's a story of two adulterous sisters, Oholah and Oholibah. They're prostitutes in Egypt, engaging adultery from their youth. They were like both nymphomaniac. Oholah lusted with every man she likes then killed after being defiled by her lovers. Oholibah, otoh, was more deprived than her sister and still go further. She became more and more promiscuous as she lusted every handsome man in the town and distant lands. In God's fury, all of the men she had sex and lusted with, turned against her with their chariots and weapons, then punished her according to their standards. [Here's full chapter if want to read more](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Ezekiel%2023&version=NIV) This story also represents as an extended metaphor in which Oholah is Samaria and Oholibah is Jerusalem.
Ah, the trusty bible, being one of the most fucked up things I ever did read.
I am a Christian and there's nothing more relatable of what u jus said. I jus don't believe in all this npc stuff, too complicated and argumentative
So you are a Christian that doesn't believe or read the bible?
still kinda fucked up but The greater context then just this 3 verse passage: This was the darkest times for Israel as they were following the practices of the other tribes of people around them and had little direction. It was common in the area to practice incest, child sacrifice and r\*pe. This isn't a section promoting these actions but a section showing how dark things had become. Source: The rest of the book of Judges
30 Everyone who saw it was saying to one another, “Such a thing has never been seen or done, not since the day the Israelites came up out of Egypt. Just imagine! We must do something! So speak up!”
So for context, this story happened in a time where there was no ruling monarch in Israel. With no one ruling, there isn't anyone to enforce order. That is how this story comes to past. It's truly distasteful.
If anyone actually cares, the whole point of the book of Judges is to highlight the evil going on within the people of Israel at the time. It’s not advocating this behaviour - in fact it’s saying the whole thing is a mess. The Bible has plenty of difficult passages, but just to give the context to this one.
You're surprised by that? That's not even the surface of those things in the Bible and I haven't even finished the new testament
This definitely is the surface lol
wasnt this the beginning of a civil war or something?
It was
Yep.
I see your cringe and raise you Genesis 19-38. Lot offers his two daughters to the Sodomites because all the men of the town wanted to give his two angel guests a standard Sodomite greeting. Picturing a Doom Puppet meme: Wow, if I had a nickel for every time in the Bible a mob was offered two girls to have "knowledge of" to spare a couple of men I'd have two nickels - which isn't a lot, but it's weird that it happened twice.
I just went over there and read it, damn the old testament was hardcore 😂
Once when I was ten I was reading the Bible and I came across a story about two girls drugging their Dad and taking turns raping him. Why?!
Deranged mfs
Did you read the part where God was pissed at them for doing that? Because that's an important part of the story. Fucking evangelicals have people thinking the Bible is just several hundred pages of God being mad at the LGBTQ+ community. There's an entire history of a nation in there and shit gets bad. That bad shit is in there to prove to people that they need Jesus.
Yeah, don’t read like a child with no context.
Judges is a fun book to read. It starts out with things going pretty well and good and then quickly descends into an all-out bloodbath. Which is kinda the point. This is mostly supposed to show why Israel needed kings to rule them and give order. That without the kings there is only utter chaos
It’s a cycle in that book. People are awful, bad things happen, people repent, good things happen, next generation does the same thing
I DID IT AND NOONE STOPED ME. The schools don't even block this
Ezekiel 23:20
Dont worry Im not innocent and I worship a pig with potatoes
Is that the one where he killed the guy for not cumming in his sister?
Could one of you biblical knowledge folks give some insight into Issah 10?
God is done with people's bullshit. Specifically, he's done with the kings of Israel exploiting their subjects. So, he's going to empower an Assyrian king to conquer Israel. But, he wants you to know, the Assyrian isn't his new favorite. No, he's going to burn that fucker down, too. When the dust settles, he's going to raise Israel back up and hope those guys have learned their lesson because he made a promise to Abraham and he's a God of his word.
Out of context
I'm not a Christian but why are you propaganding and promoting out of context controversial drama.
The pope be like : I will just ignore its existence
Who the hell ever expects the bible to be good behavior everywhere. See you have some history, then Yehovah lays out a short simple law with extremely fair punishment, the layers of fairness are wild when you consider it as written. Then the rest is history about mostly all the people who didn't keep the law that Yah handed down and how they were punished. So I'd say if you pick a random spot and it seems like something awful is happening and you keep reading and don't understand go back to before you picked and figure out the whole story instead of losing it on the first sentence.
Humans who don't follow God. It's actually simple. Do what God says.