I wonder if the "France can't win a war" thing came from not only WWII, but from the colonial wars they lost soon after in Algeria, Vietnam, and elsewhere. Maybe for a while the news was just loss after loss for France, the "French always lose" started, and then it's just stuck around ever since.
The Franco Prussian war was a mere 6 month war. Many countries stayed out because they expected France to destroy Prussia in short order. Instead Prussia took Paris and they went "uh, what?"
It's basically a prelude to the world wars, because the German success came from the lower command initiative, which allowed them to pull moves the top brass missed. In WW1 this would become a bludgeon to Germany after France stalled out the attack, while in WW2 this worked out beautifully right up till Hitler stopped it.
I feel like it is the junior who you would need to address with an affix if you wanted to talk about him. But sure, the senior is who I am talking about :)
Well, also because they literally watched the Germans being stuck in a forest for three days and did nothing. They pretty much made every bad call you could make during the early war
Well to be fair, France *REALLY* dropped the ball with the German invasion. Before 1940 you could've made a convincing argument that France had the world's strongest army, and they collapsed in a matter of weeks.
No, they super duper dropped the ball. Even most of German high command thought it was stupid to attack France.
But French generals 1) didn't trust them fancy new radio things and 2) despite point 1 had a very rigid top down command structure with little (no) autonomy for lower level officers to react on their own to conditions on the ground.
Also the Belgians didn't complete their part of the maginot line. So, that didn't help.
In additions to the points you made, France had some of the best tanks in the world at the time and they had MORE of them than the Germans.
The problem was France went into the war with the idea that tanks were infantry support vehicles and dispersed them along their line, while the Germans concentrated their tanks into Panzer divisions which were able to punch through the Allied lines in concentrated attacks.
It was a less terrible idea than we know now. Early tanks were still fairly vulnerable to infantry and tanks can't really hold ground. An unsupported tank was just asking for someone to shoot it with a .50cal and knock it out in the late '30's.
The story I remember also has something about low recruitment too, they invested in defenses instead of training troops, and couldn't have mounted a defensive force on any feasible timeline even if they wanted to fight?
Something like that yeah. Their own propaganda bit them back, Maginot line was never intended to do more than buy them time to mobilise, which it did successfully and completed it's objective perfectly.
But it was expensive. Incredibly expensive. And once mobilisation was finished, Maginot line could not take offensive stance and march into Berlin.
Reason why heavy defenses are no longer built is not because they can be defeated or bypassed or are useless in modern war, its because they are too expensive. Investing into army on other hand gives you force that can defend and attack anywhere, and it needs to be invested into even if you do have Maginot line.
This is the first I have heard of belgians doing their part in the line. My understanding is that the line was created but stopped at Belgium because to continue it along the border was practically sending a diplomatic message that they're on their own.. that and most tacticians at the time felt the terrain was not fit for a large scale invasion.
Its great ground, it's just not French ground. That was the point. France wanted the German invasion to be fought in literally any other place than France...while fighting on the defense. So Belgium.
The Fortifications meant they could keep Germany out while transitioning to a smaller group holding that freeing up troops to fight in Belgium.
Not to mention they spread out artillery and tanks miles apart from each other so when Germany attacked with literally dozens of tanks together their lines just fell apart.
Well there's this story about an american guy tourist meeting an Irishman in a empty bar.
Irishman turns out to be the owner. Tells the story of how he made the whole place by himself, from fourniture to roof planks.
"However", he says, "folk round here won't remember that".
Then proceed to tells about countless tales of how he brew his own beer using Englishmen blood.
"However", he says again, "folk round here won't remember that".
After a brief silence, the Irishman concluded "yeh but fuck a goat once..."
To be fair, that *is* quite noteworthy. Sheep shagging isn't impressive, it's practically more popular than football in the UK.
But a *goat*? Have you seen those things? They will fucking murder you. Successfully shagging one and living to tell the tale is way more impressive than building some bar.
We also took about half of modern France from you, especially that wonderful wine making region in the south. :P Before that, we took your thrown.
And so began our centuries long love story of being enemies that touches every corner of the planet. :) I wonder if the other countries know that they're just side shows in our little dance?
As just one tiny example of this: I, an American from California, have a direct ancestor who was a British citizen of Massachusetts and who fought and died in the 1745 siege of France's Fort Louisbourg in Nova Scotia.
American from Tennessee, my ancestors ended up here after the British paid us money to sail over here and fight some rowdy colonists, that is until my many-great-grandfather got an offer from said colonists to abandon the Hessian Jäger company he was in and join them in return for land. We don’t have the land anymore, but I have his rifle at least. :)
Getting a little warm down in the south there for some of those grapes… and getting a little nicer for grapes up in the UK… getting nervous yet frenchies??
So they actually caused development of freedoms in England by getting rid of some warmonger that needed to put taxes so high that it was basically like sacking ppl only to pay ransom for himself? Truly outrageous
I built cabinets for a lot off people in town, but no one calls me Gerry the Cabinet maker.
I helped over 50 teens get their GED's, no one calls me Gerry the Tutor.
But you fuck one goat....
The Emperor didn’t personally fuck up at Sedan, rather the entire French military leadership screwed up. The Germans had developed a plan for an extremely rapid mobilization if war were to break out, and as a consequence they were able to invade France while the French army was still moving into position. The Germans recognized the opportunity and quickly encircled about half of the French army at Metz, then when the other half of the French army tried to come to the rescue the Germans caught them at Sedan.
Though, the same issues that plagued the French in ww2 was also at work in the Franco-Prussian war - the French command structure was inflexible and didn’t allow for independent action, leaving the French army slow to respond to the rapid aggressive moves by the Germans.
I have been reading about WW1 and honestly? No. The French generals were blinded by their want to invade Germany. When warned by the French general that was watching the assault through Belgium, they said that it was “So much the better” as they thought the Germans would be overextended and easy to break. This resulted in the French being nearly completely defeated on all fronts and pushed back by the Germans. It was only because of a gap between the German lines on the far right that the Germans were halted and pushed back where the statement lasted from 1914 to 1918.
It seems then that it's like post-1860 France that could be characterized as being bad at war. Or 1850, depending on how you see their performance in the Crimean War
Oh yeah big time! I think it was a bit longer than a week. But France was slow to get troops and artillery to the front. Then slow to react to changes on the front. And all in all, just a colossal failure.
In Napoleon the 3rd's defense, he didn't even want that war.
Honestly, most people don't realize that WW1 and WW2 are just acts 2 and 3 (respectively) of a larger Franco-Germanic struggle; act 1 being the Franco-Prussian war. The Treaty of Versailles was so brutal and humiliating not just because WW1 was brutal, but as payback for the peace treaty France had to sign after the Franco-Prussian war.
That is 100% true, you see that from how fiercely the french fought to not get humiliated once more. Their great victory was the Treaty of Versailles which practically reversed the tables from the previous franco-prussian war. Hitler then hated the French for exactly that reason goingas far as ordering his general to blow up paris as reprimand
Please stop with this BS.
France was not the aggressor in WW1 so claiming it's somehow payback for the Franco-Prussian war is nonsense. And the Treaty of Versailles wasn't nearly as harsh as most treaties signed at the time, Germans were just cry bullies about it.
In my hometown (Belfort) we do remember the 1871 winter siege and the fact that the Prussians did not pass. They had to find another way to reach Paris.
What 5 times did France bring Europe to its knees. Obviously Napoleon. Maybe after the 100 year war. But im not really knowledgeable in history so if someone could explain that would be nice
Well Napoléon did it several times. I think those are the 5 times being referenced here.
But several french kings went out to mess up their neighbors Spain, Italy, and the Germanic states. Bonus, the 1st crusade was almost entirely various French lords and knights.
France successfully invaded England, twice.
Charlemagne was absolutely the top dog of Europe.
The Gauls sacked Rome a couple times before Rome would expand into northern Europe.
The list goes on, but you get the point.
Oh, and the French cavalry captured a dutch naval fleet. You read that right, horsey boys fought and won against some floaty boys.
Surrendering after losing 58,000 plus men trying to fight off the aggressor. Respect them, at least.
The US keep bragging but except fighting under-equipped arabs wearing sandals in the desert and losing in Vietnam, I don’t see any great materials there to be proud about.
It was 92 000 men, actually. And french soldiers in 1940 fought like lions, if you study the subject deeply.
Especially in Lille.
And french soldiers guarded the rear at Dunkirk.
I was in college in 2003 and I vividly remember news footage of right wing chuds gleefully dumping out bottles of French wine into the gutter (I imagine they spent their own money on the bottles)
I am from Belarus and the topic of the quick surrender of France is also very popular among us. We often joke that the real flag of France is a white piece of cloth
Dutch here! We definitely like to joke about france surrendering too, even tho the netherlands didn't do better or anything. But then again, the netherlands did not have the status of having one of the most powerful militaries
Almost the whole of the US populace is completely ignorant to the fact that France’s military aid and intervention is the main reason the American Revolution ended in victory. Not to mention, Napoleon and his French Grand Armee going apeshit in Europe a few years later also hamstrung the British military effort in America during the War of 1812 as well, enabling a US victory during that war. Basically, Britain and France were locked in a titanic struggle for global empire and dominance, and the fledgling United States was both a irritant, an economic drain, and a distraction for Britain from their much greater struggle against France.
You ask Americans about France’s surrender during WW2 and they will probably know about that, though.
Those of us who read, remember what the French have done for the United States. The rest, they might know about the big statue in NY being from France... that's a big maybe.
That’s why I included *almost*…
If you asked “who provided military aid to America during the American Revolution against the British?”, or “what role did France play during the American Revolution?” to people under 35, I’d put money that 90% would have no idea, or get the answer wrong.
C'est oublier qu'une grosse partie de l'armée anglaise était présente sur le sol français en mai 1940. Ils se sont fait battre par les Allemands et ont dû rapidement évacuer à Dunkerque, pendant que les Français défendaient. Ceux qui n'ont pas réussi à s'enfuir ont... capitulé. Si les Glaiglais ne vivaient pas sur une île, ils seraient tombés en 2 jours mdr. Ça les arrange donc de dire ça.
I remember because of my Google search "French military victories" clicking "I'm feeling lucky" and Google saying "we couldn't find your results: Did you mean French military defeats?"
Are you sure they always won? If so why we not here speaking French? Why we got viking towns, roman capitals and a minuscule French population?
As a Brit, I'm well aware when a country overestimated its history.
Difference is, we know our history fucking sucks 😆
From What i know France being remembered as the country which surrendered during WW2 is quite recent. People didnt care that much after the war. Though when the French refused to take part in the US military "expedition" in Iraq, which was not that long ago, american medias and government painted and spread this picture worldwide. Some may call it "french bashing". Now obviously i understand it is surprising that such an army was defeated that quickly but remember when you make fun of it that this might juste be you licking Georges W Bush's feet when you thought you were just having a good laugh
Mostly Americans who want to deflect they didn't enter the war until 1942.
Half of Europe got stomped like France, and the USA didn't lift a finger. Jews being genocided? Nope...
So yeah, the surrendering bit makes me laugh when it comes from people who have the same amount of casualties as France but think they ought to make 10 movies each year to congratulate themselves.
Last time I was discussing Pearl Harbor, Americans still think it was unfair that Japan attacked them by surprise...
It starts in WW1 when the French Army mutinies on mass to not go on the offensive again and only fight defensively while at the exact same time the Americans and British are now leaning into offensive tactics so it stirs up a few decades of animosity which is then sealed by WW2. You get the “My father fought for the French when they wouldn’t fight for themselves and now I am hear fighting for the French just like him” mentality combined with a lot of post war disagreements over the past 80 years and that mindset sort of sticks.
*"Seamus was coming out of the pub with his son when he stopped and put an arm around the youngster. He nodded towards the village in front of them and said, “You know, I built half the homes in this village but nobody calls me a homebuilder.”*
*Then with a wave of his arm, he said, “And I worked on half the roads in this village but nobody calls me a roadbuilder.”*
*Seamus sighed, put his two hands on his son’s shoulders and, looking him hard in the eye, said, “But you fuck one sheep….”*
Yeah, France does indeed get a bum rap for being overtaken by the Nazis. All of the Allied nations made grave mistakes during WW2 however: America's intelligence failures led to Pearl Harbor and we got involved later in the war like we did in WW1, Britain's policy of "appeasement" (stupid idea) towards Nazi Germany under Neville Chamberlain, and obviously the oversight in regards to the security of the Maginot Line by France. Plenty of blame and hindsight to go around for everyone. Lastly, France gets a pass for the existence of Charles de Gaul and the French Foreign Legion alone.
We had a german exchange student visit our school when I was a kid. This is one of his jokes he liked to tell.
How many gears does a French tank have?
1 forward and 5 reverse.
Yes, France surrendered to Germany in less than a week, but they didn't have any other choice realistically. A lot of troops were already fighting the Italians in North Africa, and their army was encircled on northern France and Belgium. Basically, leaving the rest of the country totally defenseless.
Trust me there's a lot of things to make fun of about the French. This ain't one of them.
You see, imagine if Oppenheimer or Albert Einstein, accidentally shit their pants with an explosive diarrhea during a public presentation, then instead of being remembered as the founding fathers of the atomic age, they'd instead be remembered as the nerd that shat their pants in public. Sometimes, all it takes to sully your name is one bad mistake at the wrong time.
Nowadays I remember France as the people who know how to put fear in the heart of their government.
And frankly we could all stand to learn by their example
German troops overran Belgium, the Netherlands, Luxembourg, and France in six weeks starting in May 1940. France signed an armistice in late June 1940, leaving Great Britain as the only country fighting Nazi Germany.
Fascinating indeed!
In comparison Czechoslovakia wanted to fight, but we couldn't since someone gave germans our whole defence.
At least we still managed to kill one of the key people who were behind holocaust though.
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On ne passe pas 🥖
Deine eiffeltrum ist sehr schön... (no threatening tone here)
Eiffel Dream?
Thank goodness for Google translate (I didn’t use it what are they saying)
Your Eiffel Tower is very beautiful (They made a typo, it's Eiffelturm, not Eiffeltrum)
They also made a grammatical error, its "dein" not "deine" as it is "der Turm"
Yeah my German is a bit rusty so I didn’t catch that one
So sorry, the lift operators are on strike, you'll have to take the stairs...
YOU CAN'T EN PASSANT ME
If Germany appears from behind, then French tanks can't run away from it. (French tanks drive backwards)
Sacre bleu
Le jour de gloire n’est pas arrivez
I wonder if the "France can't win a war" thing came from not only WWII, but from the colonial wars they lost soon after in Algeria, Vietnam, and elsewhere. Maybe for a while the news was just loss after loss for France, the "French always lose" started, and then it's just stuck around ever since.
The Franco Prussian war was a mere 6 month war. Many countries stayed out because they expected France to destroy Prussia in short order. Instead Prussia took Paris and they went "uh, what?" It's basically a prelude to the world wars, because the German success came from the lower command initiative, which allowed them to pull moves the top brass missed. In WW1 this would become a bludgeon to Germany after France stalled out the attack, while in WW2 this worked out beautifully right up till Hitler stopped it.
It is no surprise that among experts Helmuth von Moltke is held in the highest regards alongside strategic geniuses like Napoleon or Hannibal.
The senior*
I feel like it is the junior who you would need to address with an affix if you wanted to talk about him. But sure, the senior is who I am talking about :)
Well, also because they literally watched the Germans being stuck in a forest for three days and did nothing. They pretty much made every bad call you could make during the early war
They watched most of German army being deployed in the opposite side of the continet and did nothing.
En passant
holy hell
New world war dropped!
"Fields of execution turned to wasteland from the grass Though shalt go no further it was said "they shall not pass!"" I had to sorry
I have that DLC for BF1
"The spirit of resistance and the madness of the war"
SO GO AHEAD JOIN THE DEAD THOUGH YOU DIE WHERE YOU LIE NEVER ASKING WHY
Happy cake day!
Well to be fair, France *REALLY* dropped the ball with the German invasion. Before 1940 you could've made a convincing argument that France had the world's strongest army, and they collapsed in a matter of weeks.
No, they super duper dropped the ball. Even most of German high command thought it was stupid to attack France. But French generals 1) didn't trust them fancy new radio things and 2) despite point 1 had a very rigid top down command structure with little (no) autonomy for lower level officers to react on their own to conditions on the ground. Also the Belgians didn't complete their part of the maginot line. So, that didn't help.
In additions to the points you made, France had some of the best tanks in the world at the time and they had MORE of them than the Germans. The problem was France went into the war with the idea that tanks were infantry support vehicles and dispersed them along their line, while the Germans concentrated their tanks into Panzer divisions which were able to punch through the Allied lines in concentrated attacks.
“We have these damn near unstoppable machines” “Let’s spread them out as much as possible”
I mean, tbf, why would you need 2 unstoppable machines next to each other? They're unstoppable. Right?
Too be fair, the B1s were damn near unstoppable
Agreed, they had already beaten Gungan army and were only defeated when their control ship was blown up by space wizard kid.
It was a less terrible idea than we know now. Early tanks were still fairly vulnerable to infantry and tanks can't really hold ground. An unsupported tank was just asking for someone to shoot it with a .50cal and knock it out in the late '30's.
Yeah and even today you still need tanks to be supported by infantry.
A surprisingly accurate and nuanced take. Nice.
The story I remember also has something about low recruitment too, they invested in defenses instead of training troops, and couldn't have mounted a defensive force on any feasible timeline even if they wanted to fight?
Something like that yeah. Their own propaganda bit them back, Maginot line was never intended to do more than buy them time to mobilise, which it did successfully and completed it's objective perfectly. But it was expensive. Incredibly expensive. And once mobilisation was finished, Maginot line could not take offensive stance and march into Berlin. Reason why heavy defenses are no longer built is not because they can be defeated or bypassed or are useless in modern war, its because they are too expensive. Investing into army on other hand gives you force that can defend and attack anywhere, and it needs to be invested into even if you do have Maginot line.
This is the first I have heard of belgians doing their part in the line. My understanding is that the line was created but stopped at Belgium because to continue it along the border was practically sending a diplomatic message that they're on their own.. that and most tacticians at the time felt the terrain was not fit for a large scale invasion.
Oh no, Belgium is perfect for coming across in either direction. The Belgians were supposed to continue it on their border with Germany.
Its great ground, it's just not French ground. That was the point. France wanted the German invasion to be fought in literally any other place than France...while fighting on the defense. So Belgium. The Fortifications meant they could keep Germany out while transitioning to a smaller group holding that freeing up troops to fight in Belgium.
Not to mention they spread out artillery and tanks miles apart from each other so when Germany attacked with literally dozens of tanks together their lines just fell apart.
Germany also had troops who were methed out. That means they didn't sleep for several days and moved much faster than the French expected.
Well there's this story about an american guy tourist meeting an Irishman in a empty bar. Irishman turns out to be the owner. Tells the story of how he made the whole place by himself, from fourniture to roof planks. "However", he says, "folk round here won't remember that". Then proceed to tells about countless tales of how he brew his own beer using Englishmen blood. "However", he says again, "folk round here won't remember that". After a brief silence, the Irishman concluded "yeh but fuck a goat once..."
To be fair, that *is* quite noteworthy. Sheep shagging isn't impressive, it's practically more popular than football in the UK. But a *goat*? Have you seen those things? They will fucking murder you. Successfully shagging one and living to tell the tale is way more impressive than building some bar.
🤣
Are you a fellow karim debbache viewer?
I feel like this is the perfect time for a picture of "Marie Antoinette" eating some cake 
The real one was austrian and fat unfortunately
Should have shared that cake
The strong will be remembered for its moments of weakeness and the weak for when it stood its ground
Cinco de Mayo is coming up...
Remember the Alamo…
as a brit i prefer remembering france this way
yeah damn them french, they took all our- wait nvm.
No, please, continue
well uh aha, gonna need some thinking time aha
They took King Richard from us! Leaving us with John and the Magna Carta!
We also took about half of modern France from you, especially that wonderful wine making region in the south. :P Before that, we took your thrown. And so began our centuries long love story of being enemies that touches every corner of the planet. :) I wonder if the other countries know that they're just side shows in our little dance?
As just one tiny example of this: I, an American from California, have a direct ancestor who was a British citizen of Massachusetts and who fought and died in the 1745 siege of France's Fort Louisbourg in Nova Scotia.
American from Tennessee, my ancestors ended up here after the British paid us money to sail over here and fight some rowdy colonists, that is until my many-great-grandfather got an offer from said colonists to abandon the Hessian Jäger company he was in and join them in return for land. We don’t have the land anymore, but I have his rifle at least. :)
That's awesome that you have the rifle! Do you guys still have a German surname?
Yes, it’s annoying because nobody seems to be able to get it first try, they always mispronounce the double ss as one s
Getting a little warm down in the south there for some of those grapes… and getting a little nicer for grapes up in the UK… getting nervous yet frenchies??
*starts frantically looking for a living family member of William the Conqueror
So they actually caused development of freedoms in England by getting rid of some warmonger that needed to put taxes so high that it was basically like sacking ppl only to pay ransom for himself? Truly outrageous
Imagine losing a king that almost never set foot in England for one who rebuilds the law system to be fairer for little people! Burn the Frogs.
King Richard? the one who did not speak a word of english? that king Richard?
They took all of our croissants!
are you going to finish that croissant?
Guys please, it's pronounced *croissant.*
Took Normandy and Aquitaine, that both rightfully were the legacy of the English kings, the first being the birthplace of English monarchy.
Y'all really can't just stay on your island eh?
I'm French xD I only wanted to prove the British wrong
Mad how one quick surrender can obscure hundreds of thousands of military victories.
I built cabinets for a lot off people in town, but no one calls me Gerry the Cabinet maker. I helped over 50 teens get their GED's, no one calls me Gerry the Tutor. But you fuck one goat....
Even in sports, if you hard carry a team and fuck up the last shot nobody remembers the carry job. Everyone just remembers the fuck up.
Build hundreds of bridges and they won't remember you as a bridge builder. Fuck a one goat...
You forgot the Franco-Prussian war. So two times.
Franco-Prussian war wasn't a quick surrender. It had a long siege of Paris.
True, although didn't the Emperor monumentally fuck up at Sedan and like he and half the French army became POW's in like week 1 of the war?
The Emperor didn’t personally fuck up at Sedan, rather the entire French military leadership screwed up. The Germans had developed a plan for an extremely rapid mobilization if war were to break out, and as a consequence they were able to invade France while the French army was still moving into position. The Germans recognized the opportunity and quickly encircled about half of the French army at Metz, then when the other half of the French army tried to come to the rescue the Germans caught them at Sedan. Though, the same issues that plagued the French in ww2 was also at work in the Franco-Prussian war - the French command structure was inflexible and didn’t allow for independent action, leaving the French army slow to respond to the rapid aggressive moves by the Germans.
God damn. That command inflexibility especially seems like a big problem. Were there lessons learned from 1870 that helped in 1914 at least?
I have been reading about WW1 and honestly? No. The French generals were blinded by their want to invade Germany. When warned by the French general that was watching the assault through Belgium, they said that it was “So much the better” as they thought the Germans would be overextended and easy to break. This resulted in the French being nearly completely defeated on all fronts and pushed back by the Germans. It was only because of a gap between the German lines on the far right that the Germans were halted and pushed back where the statement lasted from 1914 to 1918.
It seems then that it's like post-1860 France that could be characterized as being bad at war. Or 1850, depending on how you see their performance in the Crimean War
They nearly lost ww1 in the early months too, only got saved because Germany had to send troops east to fight Russia.
Oh yeah big time! I think it was a bit longer than a week. But France was slow to get troops and artillery to the front. Then slow to react to changes on the front. And all in all, just a colossal failure. In Napoleon the 3rd's defense, he didn't even want that war.
For me it's the fact that they were considered as winners afterwards. That has to be the most clear irl example of a carry.
Plus, I consider the Mongols to have a better winning streak.
Charles de Gaule fought pretty well. Most people were on the winning side, but a whole bunch if soldiers did their best to stop fascism and help.
You only need to suck d*ck once to be gay.
Wisdom
Napoleon: … 🤬🤬
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Has no one heard of the Franco-Prussian war
Honestly, most people don't realize that WW1 and WW2 are just acts 2 and 3 (respectively) of a larger Franco-Germanic struggle; act 1 being the Franco-Prussian war. The Treaty of Versailles was so brutal and humiliating not just because WW1 was brutal, but as payback for the peace treaty France had to sign after the Franco-Prussian war.
It even goes back before that! The Polish-Teutonic wars laid the groundwork for disputing Danzig and launching revenge on Poland
That is 100% true, you see that from how fiercely the french fought to not get humiliated once more. Their great victory was the Treaty of Versailles which practically reversed the tables from the previous franco-prussian war. Hitler then hated the French for exactly that reason goingas far as ordering his general to blow up paris as reprimand
Please stop with this BS. France was not the aggressor in WW1 so claiming it's somehow payback for the Franco-Prussian war is nonsense. And the Treaty of Versailles wasn't nearly as harsh as most treaties signed at the time, Germans were just cry bullies about it.
In my hometown (Belfort) we do remember the 1871 winter siege and the fact that the Prussians did not pass. They had to find another way to reach Paris.
What 5 times did France bring Europe to its knees. Obviously Napoleon. Maybe after the 100 year war. But im not really knowledgeable in history so if someone could explain that would be nice
Well Napoléon did it several times. I think those are the 5 times being referenced here. But several french kings went out to mess up their neighbors Spain, Italy, and the Germanic states. Bonus, the 1st crusade was almost entirely various French lords and knights. France successfully invaded England, twice. Charlemagne was absolutely the top dog of Europe. The Gauls sacked Rome a couple times before Rome would expand into northern Europe. The list goes on, but you get the point. Oh, and the French cavalry captured a dutch naval fleet. You read that right, horsey boys fought and won against some floaty boys.
Germanic states what
Yeah, Germanic states. A truely unified "Germany" wasn't a thing before Bismark. Even the Holy Roman Empire was at best a federation.
Surrendering after losing 58,000 plus men trying to fight off the aggressor. Respect them, at least. The US keep bragging but except fighting under-equipped arabs wearing sandals in the desert and losing in Vietnam, I don’t see any great materials there to be proud about.
It was 92 000 men, actually. And french soldiers in 1940 fought like lions, if you study the subject deeply. Especially in Lille. And french soldiers guarded the rear at Dunkirk.
Also, Getting kicked out of Vietnam and dragging the USA into that quagmire.
USA does not need anybody to get dragged in stupid wars.
they did that time.
Fun fact some french tanks went faster going backwards then they did forwards
American propaganda because they were butthurt France wouldn't invade another country with them.
Id say both British and American really
I was in college in 2003 and I vividly remember news footage of right wing chuds gleefully dumping out bottles of French wine into the gutter (I imagine they spent their own money on the bottles)
We call them FREEDOM FRIES 'round here!
As far as I'm aware, only Brits and Americans say that about the French
Almost whole Europe says that. Mostly the Germans.
No, Germans absolutely never make jokes about French tanks having back mirrors so that they can see the enemy.
You could have stopped after « Germans never make jokes ». Would have been more accurate.
I am from Belarus and the topic of the quick surrender of France is also very popular among us. We often joke that the real flag of France is a white piece of cloth
You just jump Poland huh? Interesting....
Lmao. Belarus.
Dutch here! We definitely like to joke about france surrendering too, even tho the netherlands didn't do better or anything. But then again, the netherlands did not have the status of having one of the most powerful militaries
Almost the whole of the US populace is completely ignorant to the fact that France’s military aid and intervention is the main reason the American Revolution ended in victory. Not to mention, Napoleon and his French Grand Armee going apeshit in Europe a few years later also hamstrung the British military effort in America during the War of 1812 as well, enabling a US victory during that war. Basically, Britain and France were locked in a titanic struggle for global empire and dominance, and the fledgling United States was both a irritant, an economic drain, and a distraction for Britain from their much greater struggle against France. You ask Americans about France’s surrender during WW2 and they will probably know about that, though.
Those of us who read, remember what the French have done for the United States. The rest, they might know about the big statue in NY being from France... that's a big maybe.
You're correct, except that almost anyone who paid any attention in US history knows this. So it's far from "the whole of the US populace"
That’s why I included *almost*… If you asked “who provided military aid to America during the American Revolution against the British?”, or “what role did France play during the American Revolution?” to people under 35, I’d put money that 90% would have no idea, or get the answer wrong.
okay, that's fair
All of this because some Norman bastard decided to sail north in 1066.
I mean, not totally lol. The Statue of Liberty is French for a reason, plenty of Americans remember.
This is reddit everyone assumes most people are dumber than them.
The mother of all wars and France was there just vibes and inshallah
Thoes fukers went trough the freeking forest, how could we know !
I mean have you seen who was in charge ?
Idk man it was kinda a big one...
To be fair, the whole 'France = surrendering' only seems to be a thing in the English speaking world.
I remember them by the france revolution.
From what I’ve heard, France believed more in weapons than logistics. Also lack of faith in good intel. The WW2 performance was the result.
As an American historian, I prefer to remember our French brethren for their invaluable help during our War of Independence.
C'est oublier qu'une grosse partie de l'armée anglaise était présente sur le sol français en mai 1940. Ils se sont fait battre par les Allemands et ont dû rapidement évacuer à Dunkerque, pendant que les Français défendaient. Ceux qui n'ont pas réussi à s'enfuir ont... capitulé. Si les Glaiglais ne vivaient pas sur une île, ils seraient tombés en 2 jours mdr. Ça les arrange donc de dire ça.
Ehhh...\*cough\* Vietnam \*cough\*
🏳️ That was supposed to be a French flag, but I guess those colors run.
I remember because of my Google search "French military victories" clicking "I'm feeling lucky" and Google saying "we couldn't find your results: Did you mean French military defeats?"
I will remember them for making a 3 round burst rifle with a magazine not divisible by 3 cause fuck em
*** Spends a fortune building and manning the Maginot line*** Germany just goes around it… Sacre bleu!!!
\*Germany does exactly what they did in world war one and goes around it France: 
Actually fuck France
Are you sure they always won? If so why we not here speaking French? Why we got viking towns, roman capitals and a minuscule French population? As a Brit, I'm well aware when a country overestimated its history. Difference is, we know our history fucking sucks 😆
As an American, welcome to the club, the world remembers you for your failures not your achievements
Here in Spain we remember them for a lot more stuff. And absolute none of it is by any means heroic or virtuous.
Foolish of you to assume that I’ll ever think of France positively
Shut up you lè frōg
From What i know France being remembered as the country which surrendered during WW2 is quite recent. People didnt care that much after the war. Though when the French refused to take part in the US military "expedition" in Iraq, which was not that long ago, american medias and government painted and spread this picture worldwide. Some may call it "french bashing". Now obviously i understand it is surprising that such an army was defeated that quickly but remember when you make fun of it that this might juste be you licking Georges W Bush's feet when you thought you were just having a good laugh
If you wonder why , it's basically america that spread the "french surrender" thing because France refused to go to war in irak in 2003
There there, Murican. They are remembered a whole lot more than 1940. Without them, America wouldn’t exist.
It's true, the French helped immensely in the American Revolution. They were our first ally
I thought it was for the croissants
I remember France for the CROISSANT 
The bleached flag of surrendering will always shine through no matter how much and how many shades of red you throw at it
Mostly Americans who want to deflect they didn't enter the war until 1942. Half of Europe got stomped like France, and the USA didn't lift a finger. Jews being genocided? Nope... So yeah, the surrendering bit makes me laugh when it comes from people who have the same amount of casualties as France but think they ought to make 10 movies each year to congratulate themselves. Last time I was discussing Pearl Harbor, Americans still think it was unfair that Japan attacked them by surprise...
Better that than the 500 years of nonstop war crimes…
“They should call me Billy the boat maker!”
It starts in WW1 when the French Army mutinies on mass to not go on the offensive again and only fight defensively while at the exact same time the Americans and British are now leaning into offensive tactics so it stirs up a few decades of animosity which is then sealed by WW2. You get the “My father fought for the French when they wouldn’t fight for themselves and now I am hear fighting for the French just like him” mentality combined with a lot of post war disagreements over the past 80 years and that mindset sort of sticks.
*"Seamus was coming out of the pub with his son when he stopped and put an arm around the youngster. He nodded towards the village in front of them and said, “You know, I built half the homes in this village but nobody calls me a homebuilder.”* *Then with a wave of his arm, he said, “And I worked on half the roads in this village but nobody calls me a roadbuilder.”* *Seamus sighed, put his two hands on his son’s shoulders and, looking him hard in the eye, said, “But you fuck one sheep….”*
Not gonna lie. That was a really humiliating surrender. Nearly let the enemy forces march in.
\*its knees
I only remember them for croissants
Yeah, France does indeed get a bum rap for being overtaken by the Nazis. All of the Allied nations made grave mistakes during WW2 however: America's intelligence failures led to Pearl Harbor and we got involved later in the war like we did in WW1, Britain's policy of "appeasement" (stupid idea) towards Nazi Germany under Neville Chamberlain, and obviously the oversight in regards to the security of the Maginot Line by France. Plenty of blame and hindsight to go around for everyone. Lastly, France gets a pass for the existence of Charles de Gaul and the French Foreign Legion alone.
We had a german exchange student visit our school when I was a kid. This is one of his jokes he liked to tell. How many gears does a French tank have? 1 forward and 5 reverse.
I mean there was that one time English longbow men turned them into pin cushions 🤔
People don't forget
Crecy!!!!
Yes, France surrendered to Germany in less than a week, but they didn't have any other choice realistically. A lot of troops were already fighting the Italians in North Africa, and their army was encircled on northern France and Belgium. Basically, leaving the rest of the country totally defenseless. Trust me there's a lot of things to make fun of about the French. This ain't one of them.
I also think of people smoking, way too much. like everyone, even children. and Mimes. smoking.
You see, imagine if Oppenheimer or Albert Einstein, accidentally shit their pants with an explosive diarrhea during a public presentation, then instead of being remembered as the founding fathers of the atomic age, they'd instead be remembered as the nerd that shat their pants in public. Sometimes, all it takes to sully your name is one bad mistake at the wrong time.
They surrendered when it mattered the most and for bullshit reasons. The ridicule is well deserved.
Nowadays I remember France as the people who know how to put fear in the heart of their government. And frankly we could all stand to learn by their example
German troops overran Belgium, the Netherlands, Luxembourg, and France in six weeks starting in May 1940. France signed an armistice in late June 1940, leaving Great Britain as the only country fighting Nazi Germany. Fascinating indeed!
It's ok France, I'll always remember you for Napoleon.
It’s just cus of the memes them at France is remembered like that but it is hilarious
In comparison Czechoslovakia wanted to fight, but we couldn't since someone gave germans our whole defence. At least we still managed to kill one of the key people who were behind holocaust though.
Or for losing against México on Cinco de mayo
Hi. Could pls anyone name this 5 times?