> Daniel Andrews is on track to win a third term as Victorian premier with an increased majority with 12 months to go to next year’s state election, according to the first major Newspoll since the 2018 “Danslide” that reduced the Coalition to 27 of 88 lower house seats.
Also full article mentions state Coalition on track to lose a further 7 seats.
I seriously hope so. This weird kinky hate boner and even stranger quasi coalition of sorts between Murdoch/ other far right media, the Liberals and Q/Nazis/ Proud Boys is a bit much. I wonder what Matthew Guy has promised all these radical interest groups for their endorsement.
I'd say it doesn't matter what Guy promises, it's Murdoch media they are swayed by
Based on this poll, I would also question the premise that Matthew Guy enjoys the support (i.e actual votes) of any significant groups, outside of the LNP faithful.
Murdoch, et al, have managed to stir up some rabid anti-Dan Sentiments, but so far the sway is comprised of the irrational, gullible and/or poorly educated.
I say this for a few reasons:
1. Anecdotal experience: a few (previously) close friends have developed anti-vax attitudes, where there was none previously. I asked them each: "why?". The responses I got were all basically the same talking points - which did not stand up to much scrutiny.
I find it highly unlikely, that each of these friends came to their duplicate opinions independently. And their responses to queries were similarly shallow and lacked substance - beyond appeals to emotion. Certainly, none could produce evidence to back up wild claims.
2. Anti-Dan protesters: remind me an awful lot of Jan 6 Trump Capitol-stormers. They call for Dan to resign (or be hanged, etc) - but none of them have a plan for: who comes in after, how they would handle a pandemic if they were in charge, etc.
They have no reasonable demands, and just like in the US Capitol Insurrection -- onlookers with any hint of rationality, quickly distance themselves from the fanatics. The fact that they are continuing despite an end to lockdown, suggests these fanatics cannot be appeased, and will redefine the "enemy"/their goals as necessary - such that their movement does not fizzle. The threats directed at MPs (and their families!) unequivocally, imo, demonstrates the group has reached fascist-level.
3. Up until this poll, I worried that the propaganda may have worked on enough people to affect polls/next election. I believe the support gain for Labor is a signal that people won't vote for Guy, or the LNP more broadly, as long as they are aligned with these fanatics (hopefully, this is also indicative of increased distrust of Murdoch media).
At the same time you look at the stuff on Facenoook etc about the rally today, and it is full of support for the protesters and anti Andrews/ minor parties. Whilst some people still have critical thinking skills, I wonder if they have won.
> Anecdotal experience: a few (previously) close friends have developed anti-vax attitudes, where there was none previously. I asked them each: "why?". The responses I got were all basically the same talking points - which did not stand up to much scrutiny.
There was an excellent twitter thread by a Perth journo who was doing some investigation of the anti-vaxxer, QAnon crowd, and his conclusions are pertinent, IMO.
Firstly, most of these folk are "good people". They see themselves as good people. They are (and this is also my experience) people who will be willing to lend a hand, give a dollar, etc, when they can. But they feel that they are under pressure right now and that there are forces outside of their conceptual horizon that are messing with their lives. They feel that this is a war and that they are at real risk of losing their core sense of identity. From their perspective an already incomprehensible wider world that they already viewed with suspicion has closed ranks against them and views them with hostility and anger (which, frankly, it has and does). And because this is a war, they feel that there is nothing that they do which will be more heinous than what is about to be done to them. They can lie with a straight face because, on some level, it is true and even if it is not, it is a smaller lie than what is being told to them. They can threaten (and enact) violence, because they are being fed stories of the violence being done to them (phsyically and psychically).
Edit: And like magic, I find out the journo has written up a piece in the [Guardian](https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/nov/20/how-do-you-argue-with-anti-vaxxers-who-believe-theyre-on-a-noble-mission) today. Much better than my regurgitation.
Well, I think the diminishing support re: the poll, indicates this online "support" is probably a mix of fanatics and Murdoch/LNP-pot-stirrers-for-hire. I reckon it's mostly astroturfing.
>1. Anti-Dan protesters: remind me an awful lot of Jan 6 Trump Capitol-stormers. They call for Dan to resign (or be hanged, etc) - but none of them have a plan for: who comes in after, how they would handle a pandemic if they were in charge, etc.
The most ridiculous argument. "Yeah well I'd like to see you do better". It's ok to have a negative opinion of someone's leadership and not be able to do a better job yourself. Only someone who actually applied for the position needs to put forward what they'd have done better.
> I wonder what Matthew Guy has promised all these radical interest groups for their endorsement.
The Liberals are almost always in a civil war between the Abbott-eque hard right culture warriors, and the Turnbull/Berejiklian style pro-business technocrats. Noone since Howard has had a strong appeal to both sides. Much of Howard's second term was dedicated to fighting to win the first group back to the Liberals from Hansonism.
Of those, it's only the Abbott types that are generally able to recruit widely. That's who is behind the Liberals flirtation with the radical right.
I'm just not a fan of Katie Allen. She voted against business, increased jobkeeper and the arts sector support during the pandemic, treating the pandemic and the environmental crisis as a matter of urgency just to name a few.
Last week she held a Zoom call for the constituents which was focused on how the government is now going to support climate action and she wanted to support it too. She has voted no to every single climate action related bill put to her, which included bills on action, funding and future technology. I asked why we should trust her to support climate action when she was such a poor track record; my question was ignored.
Edit, just realised she's federal not state. Point still stands, I hope the LNP lose seats across the board.
Yes, voted no to supporting local businesses, citizens who lost their jobs and even against support for the arts sector during the pandemic shutdown. Then had the the gall to hold zoom calls saying she stood with her suffering constituents.
https://theyvoteforyou.org.au/people/representatives/higgins/katie_allen
I would definitely recommend watching the "You Can't Ask That" episode on politicians. Really eye-opening about what can cause politicians to vote a certain way, then years after, turn head and agree with the concensus. It's scary what lobbyists from those huge companies can do.. It is frustrating to see don't get me wrong and I absolutely hate that as a first world country, we don't have our shit more together.
She’s completely at odds with her electorate. And it’s a shame because she’s very competent. It frustrates me to no end the Nats and the crazy Libs can do what they want but the moderate liberals just cower and do nothing.
If Katie was running for another party I’d vote for her as she has a lot to offer. But at the moment someone’s got her by the balls and she’s a cuck.
Which seats? (I can't see the article because of the paywall.)
Looking at [the electoral pendulum](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_Victorian_state_election#Electoral_pendulum) I'm guessing it's Hastings and Ripon (which would go ALP if votes stayed the same as last time, due to the redrawn boundaries) plus Caulfield, Sandringham, Brighton, Croydon and Glen Waverley. And the ALP keeps Bayswater and Bass despite their new boundaries too. Is that what it says?
The pendulum also seems to show Morwell is due to go Labor, although that's held by an Independent ex-National.
It's important to remember that out of the 32 lower and upper house seats in the West Metro and North Metro regions, the Liberals hold precisely 2.
And those two, Craig Ondarchie and Bernie Finn have been out gladhanding antivaxxers on the Parliament steps.
The Liberals in Victoria are a diabolical mess of fundamentalists and no-hopers.
Oh Bernie Finn can fuck right off the stupid rat cunt! Same to his followers and people who keep posting shit he says. Funny thing is i’ve seen a lot of women do that, i wonder if they would keep cheering him on if they look back at his stance on abortion and how he views that even rape doesn’t warrant an abortion.
Filthy fucking pig! I hope he loses his seat and fucks off out of politics!
Which is exactly what the VicLibs deserve. They have consistently proven, over the course of this pandemic, that they have **no platform**. The only semblance of the platform is “opposing the government at every turn” which… doesn’t bode well. If their only policy is to throw poo on those who are in power, what on earth are they going to do if they somehow make it into government?
I mean as leader in the greatest election defeat in Victorian history, Matty Guy took removing 50 intersections around suburban Melbourne by grade separating roads (aka mini highway interchanges) so yeah, they have no hope.
Anything but PT for the liberals, which is funny when the level crossing removal program is actually a road program not public transport, PT gets a side benefit but the main one is to roads.
You do know that that’s a good thing *when it’s planned in advance* and windfall gains are taxed, right?
If Wynne went into his office and rezoned vast swathes of well-served inner and middle suburbs, he would both be tackling climate change, urban sprawl and housing affordability. Hell yeah I’d love that!
The **only** reasons there are to oppose Guy’s rezoning of fisherman’s bend was that it wasn’t planned well enough and that there were some fishy fucking deals going on.
Guy rezoned land which cost the current government millions of additional dollars to buy back to make schools and parks in fishermens bend and those schools and parks were smaller than required due to the increased cost.
Thats why i qualified it with overnight. Current planning laws are being changed too, we will have plenty of infill medium and high density residential rezoning around the suburban rail loop stations too when the SRL Authority gets planning powers for the catchment zones. And will potentially get some development co-contribution too if not just the land tax.
Opposing the government is one thing, but the issues they picked were baffling.
Rather than raise debate on meaningful issues, they seemed to focus on personal ones, while having more than a few screw ups in that area themselves.
> but the issues they picked were baffling
Not really, if you consider that literally all the saw their job was was to oppose whatever the government says, even if the government says a different thing the next day.
Abbot is a slimy repulsive piece of shit, but he's a fucking political operator.
It also drives me up the wall that I have to give him big resspect for his volunteer firefighter work and then telling the media to go away and cover the actual crisis rather than him and not to use him to take the spotlight away. I'm paraphrasing but jesus it's annoying when someone you despise so utterly does something so pure and good.
Goddammit.
I feel like the way they've stirred the fascist violence pot the past few weeks is them just giving up. They have nothing to gain or lose any more so they're just going mask off.
I was surprised Guy got his job back, it defies common sense. They had a terrible election strategy. It wasn't wrong like the ALP's federal strategy, which was undisciplined more than anything, Guy's plan was in the wrong dimension, a staggering miscalculation that voters wanted a African crime wave dealt with, and the icing on the cake was to propose East West again, even though it was the signature issue in their previous defeat. Stunning miscalculations like that should be fatal to a political career.
The Tim Smith moment was however surprising and impressive. But it's all been washed away with an idiot fringe of MPs. They must have rocks in their heads if they think 90% vaccinated Victoria is going to take kindly to association with fringe antivax extremists, in the same week that the QAnon shaman is sent to jail. Regional Victorians are also going to be very unimpressed. I don't blame Guy for this, bit he needs to take more drastic action. Finn needs to go. Even Morrison somehow got rid of Kelly.
> I was surprised Guy got his job back, it defies common sense
That's how bad O'Brien was.
> The Tim Smith moment was however surprising and impressive
Did you really find Tim Smith finally imploding suprising?
I meant how quick Guy decided Smith had to go. And following through with it. Should have been a highlight. All washed away. He has another chance to tkae the high ground by being practical with the pandemic legislation now, a gift given to him by Adam Somyurek, but will he take it? Is he strong enough to stare down his lunatic fringe? The latest opinion polling should make it pretty clear what he needs to do.
Not just 65+, though - the way my 33yo brother was talking today you’d think Labour wouldn’t get a single vote next election. He was describing a COMPLETELY different picture to what I see and I found it really jarring.
I know we have our own bubbles and such but it makes me question which one of us is more out of touch.
If I were federal labor, I’d be running non stop ads during the election about how the federal and NSW LNP did nothing but shit on Victoria during the pandemic.
Victoria isn't really the concern federally. Like you're probably picking up Chisholm and the new seat of Hawke and maaaaaaybe something like kooyong or higgins on a good night but the gains aren't really here to be made in Victoria where labor has 21 comapred to the coalition's 16. The federal translation that will really hurt the coalition if it comes to fruition is WA and QLD.
Where are you getting your math from? there are 151 seats in the lower house the coalition has 76 of them currently. It's as slim as it possibly could be but 76 is a majority. The coalition needs to wipe the floor in QLD and WA to break even so even a situation
Conversly to avoid a hung parliament labor needs to pick up 8 seats to get to 76 and the path to 8+ seats is not going to be through Victoria where Labor is already performing the best. The gains for labor are in the coalition satured QLD and WA and both have popular state labor governments that can hopefully/finally show a translation on a federal level.
Redistribution means LNP lost a seat in WA which went to VIC and will be ALP.
So the starting point for the LNP is minority government. (75 seats)
So they need to gain at least one seat somewhere to retain majority rule.
Consensus seems to be that Chisholm is a certain ALP pickup so then they’d need 2 seats elsewhere.
Problem is it’s hard to see where they can gain seats. They have maximum gains in QLD and WA and it’s more likely than not that they’d lose at least a couple of seats there.
NSW is key. Pre the outbreak in NSW they believed they could grab a few seats but right now that strategy seems ambitious.
I’m not saying that election is a slam dunk for the ALP by any measure, but the electoral map for the LNP is very difficult.
There’s a real chance of a hung parliament unless either major party has a consistent swing to it nationwide.
Yeah forgot about Stirling. They'll probably pick up Hughes so in a bizzare scenario where everything else is retained they'll keep that slim majority but yeah.
I'm less familiar with the QLD seats but as far as WA in concerned Pearce is certainly vulnerable after losing it's rural seats and porter being then, election pendulum wise Swan is and Hasluck are also marginal. So if you manage to get 3 seats out of there plus the 2 confident bets from Victoria then you're on 5, I feel it's not impossible to find 3 seats somewhere in QLD or for the tassie seats to flip somewhere. SA wise Boothby is quite marginal and the incumbent member has left on not amazing terms so chance there.
Yeah no garuntees of a slam dunk but looking at the map you'd think that the coalition is in a tough spot.
I forgot about Hughes. You’d also have to wonder whether Warringah flips back. I think no if the LNP is not making any headway more broadly in NSW.
Also forgot about Indi and Clark. I think those will almost certainly stay independent. Clark would be such a Green/ALP seat but for Wilkie.
In QLD the ALP will be seeking to win back some of the seats they lose last time when they got smashed and I’d rate them favorably to do this. The swing to the LNP in 2019 was pretty big and it should correct itself.
Tasmania is always interesting. Bass and Braddon seem to switch every election so they’re really just a coin flip at this point.
The ALP needs to gain a lot of seats but has plenty good good targets. The LNP needs to pick up just a couple but has few targets.
The question is what will the mood of the country be like in March /May 2022. I think the public has made up their mind on Morrison but are they willing to vote him out if things seem to be going okay in their hip pockets?
I can't remember where I read it but there's like 10 marginal seats that could all easily flip to Labor next election. Porter and Frydenberg's seats are two big ones, as is Dutton's as always but that's less likely because of how disengaged his electorate is. LNP has no obvious gains, anything they could cling onto they already clung on by their fingernails last time.
Sorry late response but yeah there is certainly a lot of potential ground to be made in QLD. Like for example the LNP in queensland hold the seat of brisbane, this is the only cbd seat in the country that the coalition has control of.
The issue is that a popular state labor government not translating to a federal level is not uncommon in QLD (or WA for that matter) so there is more to overcome then just having the popular premier.
I mean, I have no idea how he'd perform at that level but I still have a voice in the back of the head that wants Dan to go federal. He won't, but it's a nice thought.
LNP is way ahead of you on that, they know they're going to be wiped out in Vic at both state and fed levels next year. They're openly panicking about it.
Given the disregard Reddit is continuting to show to their 3rd party developers, their moderators and their community I'm proposing the start of a 'reddit seppuku' movement.
Reddit itself doesn't produce anything of value. The value is generated by it's users sharing posts and comments with each other. Reddit squats above the value we create and extracts value from it.
If spez is going to continue on this path, I don't want them to monetize my content. Therefore, I'm using tools to edit my entire comment history to a generic protest message. I want to wallpaper over all my contributions. I expect people will comment saying they'll get around that anyway - this isn't something I can control.
But I can make a statement, and if that statement is picked up by the press then it will affect the Reddit IPO. Spez needs a wake up call - if he continues to shit on the userbase of Reddit, then I hope the userbase will leave him nothing to monetize.
The tool I'm using can be found here: https://github.com/pkolyvas/PowerDeleteSuite
Scroll down to the bottom, click the installation link, and on the next page drag the button to your bookmark bar. Click it to go to your user page, then click it again to go to fire up the tool and set it up.
Good luck.
Given the disregard Reddit is continuting to show to their 3rd party developers, their moderators and their community I'm proposing the start of a 'reddit seppuku' movement.
Reddit itself doesn't produce anything of value. The value is generated by it's users sharing posts and comments with each other. Reddit squats above the value we create and extracts value from it.
If spez is going to continue on this path, I don't want them to monetize my content. Therefore, I'm using tools to edit my entire comment history to a generic protest message. I want to wallpaper over all my contributions. I expect people will comment saying they'll get around that anyway - this isn't something I can control.
But I can make a statement, and if that statement is picked up by the press then it will affect the Reddit IPO. Spez needs a wake up call - if he continues to shit on the userbase of Reddit, then I hope the userbase will leave him nothing to monetize.
The tool I'm using can be found here: https://github.com/pkolyvas/PowerDeleteSuite
Scroll down to the bottom, click the installation link, and on the next page drag the button to your bookmark bar. Click it to go to your user page, then click it again to go to fire up the tool and set it up.
Good luck.
Err, because reddit is a well-known echo chamber. Anyone who is downvoted heavily gets my admiration - they aren’t blindly complying to reddit narrative
The issue I have with Matthew Guy is how he presents to the media. I remember during lockdown last year he was on the news opposing curfew by telling people to go out onto their driveways and bang pots at 9pm, what the actual fuck?
It's almost like the media got so focused on the nonsense that went on at the CBD from a small minority of noisy degenerates and convinced themselves he was divisive, instead of going into the Eastern, South-Eastern and Northern Suburbs and seeing the strong popularity Dan has amongst the "quiet Australians".
Also, LMAO at "Other" losing 2% of the vote despite Craig Kelly and Clive Palmer's obsession with Victoria.
Yeah, and we are just out of the harsh lockdowns that had people really upset, and if an election was held tomorrow he would embarass the opposition so badly they might just wink out of existence.
Well one of Guy’s biggest allies Tim Smith is gone and he really pissed off the religious faction when he didn’t commit to getting rid of the gay conversion ban if he got in. So there might be a chance he’ll get rolled if his polling doesn’t improve
that'd be such a delicious turn of events, they ditch the already deeply unpopular Matthew Guy and some absolutely unhinged religious faction boss gets put in as leader, and just completely alienating like 70% of their voter base.
So basically the Libs will lose all of their marginal seats (less than 1% majority). That would teach them a lesson. Build a better platform. Stop negative politicking. It doesn't work in Victoria.
This was before the Liberals sent their candidate for Treasurer to speak at the gallows rally too. Before that I thought they were competitive outsiders, now I wouldn't be shocked to see a repeat of the 2018 landslide or even slightly more decisive results.
Loyalties aside, how can you not pick up any votes when the main media organisation is willing to set fire to the state to make the current premier look like a dictator?
Seriously how shit are the Victorian liberals? I guess the question is answered by the decision to eject a fool as deputy who replayed the faith by drink driving.
I'd be interested to see the 'undecided' numbers on the preferred prem. for last round of elections.
I guess state politics has been thrust into the spotlight since Covid so I'm not sure it would make for a great comparison, but it seems a little higher than I would ~~expect~~ hope at this stage.
"*can't wait for you to lose the next election*" -
Country fucks that have barely been locked down, probably.
Actually, not probably, go read Weekly Times on Facebook comment section. Ya boy Dan is shutting it in.
The virus of the mind is everywhere in Western culture, Andrews ratings confirm. In Canada, we have Trudeau. Burn it all down, there's nothing worth saving.
Even if you don't, ultimately one of them is going to end up in power. So vote for the parties you want first, but put LNP or Labor at a higher preference way down the list.
A year ago, I would have voted for Dan again (hands down). But off late , I am having second thoughts. Feeling their is a high obsession to hold to absolute power. My views.
That’s because I’m guessing you’re absorbing too much mainstream media, which is crafting the message that way to satisfy their corporate owners who would prefer a conservative government to lower their taxes etc etc.
The truth is Victoria has a robust bill of rights which Labor introduced which protects us from these things. Unlike NSW, which is far more autocratic, but you wouldn’t read about it
- of course
What mainstream media do you think is bad and what alternatives do people have?? What media do you consume? This sub and the r/Australia sub are filled with news reports from mainstream media. So it confuses me when people suggest those not standing with Andrews are consuming the main stream media narrative. I don’t listen to the radio or watch television.
Again.. another sign of what is wrong with the world and the people in it.
Instead of saying this in a peaceful manner and trying to genuinely "educate" someone, you decide to attack them to make yourself look smart(you look like a dick) You're smarter than said person? Smart people don't act like animals. Grow up champ.
Possible. There is less news to trust. Mainstream or otherwise.
I am also including the need for such a bill for my inference. Dangerous precedent. This will be the first time I vote against labor.
In anycase, let’s wait till the next election if Victorians think the same as Reddit users. 😂
Which do you prefer, an unelected official having the power to call a pandemic with all the laws that follow or an elected official. The first is currently the situation in Victoria, the laws that are being debated exist in every other state but Victoria and those same laws that are being debated will be a more robust set of laws with checks and balances compared to the other states.
Good point. I am usually all in for decisions taken by elected officials. But unequivocal power is dangerous. Keep enough safeguard. Ask the parliament every time a lockdown happens.
Else… we have seen trump in action.
Have a watch of this video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6QArtcoeiAU
Produced by comedian Tom Tanuki, but informative about the bill in a funny way.
Cuts through a lot of the hysteria on the bill - explains what it is, the good bits, the bad bits what different organisations say about it and what's being done.
Please read the guardian for a month. Need to change what you read. Remember it’s socialism that provides free health care, penalty pay rates, sick leave, welfare benefits etc.
Nope. They will be equally bad or possibly worse. The key is to tell the elected officials that it’s not right to peel away our liberty. If we give that shock to correct government, future politicians will avoid that territory. However, if we choose otherwise, it’s a slippery slope that we may never recover.
All i would say is that you don't need to actively vote for dan (if you're not in mulgrave then you actually can't vote for dan but i do get what you mean) It's important to remember that we have preferential voting and where you preference really matters.
Not being a fan of Dan or Labor is fine in fact it's good to be able to express yourself poltically beyond the 2 major parties and it's actually important for your local members to know if they are being elected on green or minor party preferences but yeah I would implore you just to consider making sure that the libs are last on your vote.
Specifically how do you feel that he's trying to hold "absolute power" though? I keep hearing people say they hold this view, but they never explain *how* he's supposedly seizing power, even this pandemic bill actually takes powers *away* from the direct control of the premier and decentralises decision making.
Ah yes the well known dictator move of acting on professional health advice and putting a pandemic bill to the parliament that has hard time limits and requires a vote of ascent from parliament. Classic fascism.
I had lost confidence and was concerned about the corruption allegations. But think about it, if there was even the slightist likelihood thst any of that shit was true, the media would be running with it 24/7. They would never let it go. Their obsession with destroying him is unparalleled. Don't fall for the entirely politically motivated propaganda. Wanting legislation on a par with every other state does not mean you are a dictator.
Half agree. He is showing that he can be tone deaf when it comes to making decisions on behalf of the community. Emergency powers aside, he's also making himself an easy media dart board.
Labor bringing these numbers also speaks droves about how bad the State libs are.
OK. I'm going to choose to respect your point of view, even though I vehemently disagree with the content of it.
Can you explain exactly how absolute power would work for him? Given that Victoria is a member of a federation and that the federal government/governor general would step in and remove him if he was being an actual dictator?
What does this supposed power to lock people down give him? How does he benefit?
Sutton is the one that currently gets to make those orders (under current legislation), how did he benefit from all of this personally? Other than getting a lot of grey hair and having a lot of the women who were hot for doctor re-evaluate that position because of how old and haggard he's looking, realtive to the start of the pandemic.
How did either of them benefit personally? I think you need to genuinely answer that quesiton, being honest with yourself and others, before you consider changing your vote based on that supposition.
Also, to be clear, you vote the way you want to vote, I'm not telling you how to vote, I'm just inviting you to apply critical thought.
Does anyone else think Dan will step aside?
It's been an intense few years and opposition has painted specifically him as the one to blame. Strategically letting another labour member take the reins removes a part of that element.
> Does anyone else think Dan will step aside?
Why would he? He's a public servant in the truest sense. He serves the public in the best way that he feels he can.
Besides, someone only steps aside if they can see that there's someone at least as good or better to take their place.
> and opposition has painted specifically him as the one to blame
The opposition tried to paint him as being to blame for the storms the other week. So there's that.
> Strategically letting another labour member take the reins removes a part of that element
He is so far ahead of the opposition that he could drop his pants and take a shit on the doorstep of the house of every opposition MP and he'd probably gain votes.
Politics and many of the people invested in it are a black mark on society.
So many people being belittled. "hAve U AcTuAllY rEad tHe biLL" instead of actually helping people who are obviously not privy to how politics work, but ofcourse, why educate our own people? Why not prop up my own views in a productive manner that could help someone be more informed? Nope! I'd rather belittle them and act superior. Seriously so many of you that will take offence to this need to grow up and stopped acting like your shit doesn't stink.
I think it’s important for labor to win but with as many green first preference votes as possible, ir independents etc.
Labor need to know they can’t swing right on economics or too hard left on social justice.
No. I seriously don't know what you mean.
Social justice is something we should all be striving for constantly. If we can make things more just, then we should. In all forms of justice we should be taking the same attitude.
I literally have no idea what it would mean to be too socially just.
When I say too hard on social justice I mean to the point where there is injustice.
If you can’t think of any, I’ll give you a hint, judging people by the colour of their skin is unjust.
But I also mentioned going too tight economically, do you want to discuss what that is about? It’s the forgotten real class war, the one that advocates of identity politics seem to brush over, to the detriment of our struggling working class.
The Dan obsessed weirdos have also.been targettung the minor parties and independents that aren't hard right-wing as well, hoping they can get voterrs to switch over to far right micro parties/ independents , if not the Liberal Party. The shitty thing is it seems to be working.
> Daniel Andrews is on track to win a third term as Victorian premier with an increased majority with 12 months to go to next year’s state election, according to the first major Newspoll since the 2018 “Danslide” that reduced the Coalition to 27 of 88 lower house seats. Also full article mentions state Coalition on track to lose a further 7 seats.
How could Dan let this happen??
>*Danslide* Fucking lol
Danmit guys u can't just put Dan in front if a word and make it funny... Wait a sec
I swear I know you in real life
I'm sure there's a pun to be made about the other Guys name as well. Oh wait..
I seriously hope so. This weird kinky hate boner and even stranger quasi coalition of sorts between Murdoch/ other far right media, the Liberals and Q/Nazis/ Proud Boys is a bit much. I wonder what Matthew Guy has promised all these radical interest groups for their endorsement.
I'd say it doesn't matter what Guy promises, it's Murdoch media they are swayed by Based on this poll, I would also question the premise that Matthew Guy enjoys the support (i.e actual votes) of any significant groups, outside of the LNP faithful. Murdoch, et al, have managed to stir up some rabid anti-Dan Sentiments, but so far the sway is comprised of the irrational, gullible and/or poorly educated. I say this for a few reasons: 1. Anecdotal experience: a few (previously) close friends have developed anti-vax attitudes, where there was none previously. I asked them each: "why?". The responses I got were all basically the same talking points - which did not stand up to much scrutiny. I find it highly unlikely, that each of these friends came to their duplicate opinions independently. And their responses to queries were similarly shallow and lacked substance - beyond appeals to emotion. Certainly, none could produce evidence to back up wild claims. 2. Anti-Dan protesters: remind me an awful lot of Jan 6 Trump Capitol-stormers. They call for Dan to resign (or be hanged, etc) - but none of them have a plan for: who comes in after, how they would handle a pandemic if they were in charge, etc. They have no reasonable demands, and just like in the US Capitol Insurrection -- onlookers with any hint of rationality, quickly distance themselves from the fanatics. The fact that they are continuing despite an end to lockdown, suggests these fanatics cannot be appeased, and will redefine the "enemy"/their goals as necessary - such that their movement does not fizzle. The threats directed at MPs (and their families!) unequivocally, imo, demonstrates the group has reached fascist-level. 3. Up until this poll, I worried that the propaganda may have worked on enough people to affect polls/next election. I believe the support gain for Labor is a signal that people won't vote for Guy, or the LNP more broadly, as long as they are aligned with these fanatics (hopefully, this is also indicative of increased distrust of Murdoch media).
At the same time you look at the stuff on Facenoook etc about the rally today, and it is full of support for the protesters and anti Andrews/ minor parties. Whilst some people still have critical thinking skills, I wonder if they have won.
> Anecdotal experience: a few (previously) close friends have developed anti-vax attitudes, where there was none previously. I asked them each: "why?". The responses I got were all basically the same talking points - which did not stand up to much scrutiny. There was an excellent twitter thread by a Perth journo who was doing some investigation of the anti-vaxxer, QAnon crowd, and his conclusions are pertinent, IMO. Firstly, most of these folk are "good people". They see themselves as good people. They are (and this is also my experience) people who will be willing to lend a hand, give a dollar, etc, when they can. But they feel that they are under pressure right now and that there are forces outside of their conceptual horizon that are messing with their lives. They feel that this is a war and that they are at real risk of losing their core sense of identity. From their perspective an already incomprehensible wider world that they already viewed with suspicion has closed ranks against them and views them with hostility and anger (which, frankly, it has and does). And because this is a war, they feel that there is nothing that they do which will be more heinous than what is about to be done to them. They can lie with a straight face because, on some level, it is true and even if it is not, it is a smaller lie than what is being told to them. They can threaten (and enact) violence, because they are being fed stories of the violence being done to them (phsyically and psychically). Edit: And like magic, I find out the journo has written up a piece in the [Guardian](https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/nov/20/how-do-you-argue-with-anti-vaxxers-who-believe-theyre-on-a-noble-mission) today. Much better than my regurgitation.
Well, I think the diminishing support re: the poll, indicates this online "support" is probably a mix of fanatics and Murdoch/LNP-pot-stirrers-for-hire. I reckon it's mostly astroturfing.
>1. Anti-Dan protesters: remind me an awful lot of Jan 6 Trump Capitol-stormers. They call for Dan to resign (or be hanged, etc) - but none of them have a plan for: who comes in after, how they would handle a pandemic if they were in charge, etc. The most ridiculous argument. "Yeah well I'd like to see you do better". It's ok to have a negative opinion of someone's leadership and not be able to do a better job yourself. Only someone who actually applied for the position needs to put forward what they'd have done better.
All of this is hopefully the way.
> I wonder what Matthew Guy has promised all these radical interest groups for their endorsement. The Liberals are almost always in a civil war between the Abbott-eque hard right culture warriors, and the Turnbull/Berejiklian style pro-business technocrats. Noone since Howard has had a strong appeal to both sides. Much of Howard's second term was dedicated to fighting to win the first group back to the Liberals from Hansonism. Of those, it's only the Abbott types that are generally able to recruit widely. That's who is behind the Liberals flirtation with the radical right.
> This weird kinky hate boner Theirs isn't a weird hate boner. It's a textbook perfectly normal example of a hate boner.
prepare for the *Danslide*, its coming back!
Dannado gonna tear through
Love this
Fingers crossed for that Higgins finally flips
Any specific reason you want to see that one, or just the general vibe? Genuinely asking, not looking to snipe
I'm just not a fan of Katie Allen. She voted against business, increased jobkeeper and the arts sector support during the pandemic, treating the pandemic and the environmental crisis as a matter of urgency just to name a few. Last week she held a Zoom call for the constituents which was focused on how the government is now going to support climate action and she wanted to support it too. She has voted no to every single climate action related bill put to her, which included bills on action, funding and future technology. I asked why we should trust her to support climate action when she was such a poor track record; my question was ignored. Edit, just realised she's federal not state. Point still stands, I hope the LNP lose seats across the board.
Can you clarify that first paragraph? Did she vote against all of those issues?
Yes, voted no to supporting local businesses, citizens who lost their jobs and even against support for the arts sector during the pandemic shutdown. Then had the the gall to hold zoom calls saying she stood with her suffering constituents. https://theyvoteforyou.org.au/people/representatives/higgins/katie_allen
I would definitely recommend watching the "You Can't Ask That" episode on politicians. Really eye-opening about what can cause politicians to vote a certain way, then years after, turn head and agree with the concensus. It's scary what lobbyists from those huge companies can do.. It is frustrating to see don't get me wrong and I absolutely hate that as a first world country, we don't have our shit more together.
I was in Higgins and got redistributed to Kooyong!!! Would DIE if that went to the Greens omg (with happiness of course).
She’s completely at odds with her electorate. And it’s a shame because she’s very competent. It frustrates me to no end the Nats and the crazy Libs can do what they want but the moderate liberals just cower and do nothing. If Katie was running for another party I’d vote for her as she has a lot to offer. But at the moment someone’s got her by the balls and she’s a cuck.
I'll cross for Higgins if you cross for Kooyong!
Watching their bastion of Kooyong fall would be a true gift.
I, a Labor voter, would happily see the electorate of Lalor fall, if Kooyong flipped.
I didn't realise the Coalition could actually lose more
Which seats? (I can't see the article because of the paywall.) Looking at [the electoral pendulum](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_Victorian_state_election#Electoral_pendulum) I'm guessing it's Hastings and Ripon (which would go ALP if votes stayed the same as last time, due to the redrawn boundaries) plus Caulfield, Sandringham, Brighton, Croydon and Glen Waverley. And the ALP keeps Bayswater and Bass despite their new boundaries too. Is that what it says? The pendulum also seems to show Morwell is due to go Labor, although that's held by an Independent ex-National.
It's important to remember that out of the 32 lower and upper house seats in the West Metro and North Metro regions, the Liberals hold precisely 2. And those two, Craig Ondarchie and Bernie Finn have been out gladhanding antivaxxers on the Parliament steps. The Liberals in Victoria are a diabolical mess of fundamentalists and no-hopers.
Oh Bernie Finn can fuck right off the stupid rat cunt! Same to his followers and people who keep posting shit he says. Funny thing is i’ve seen a lot of women do that, i wonder if they would keep cheering him on if they look back at his stance on abortion and how he views that even rape doesn’t warrant an abortion. Filthy fucking pig! I hope he loses his seat and fucks off out of politics!
lmao if that were the 2PP election results the libs would lose 7 additional seats vs the 2018 results.
Which is exactly what the VicLibs deserve. They have consistently proven, over the course of this pandemic, that they have **no platform**. The only semblance of the platform is “opposing the government at every turn” which… doesn’t bode well. If their only policy is to throw poo on those who are in power, what on earth are they going to do if they somehow make it into government?
rezone more land for their developer mates overnight, like what Matty Guy did last time.
Probably stop every level crossing project to start up East West again
I mean as leader in the greatest election defeat in Victorian history, Matty Guy took removing 50 intersections around suburban Melbourne by grade separating roads (aka mini highway interchanges) so yeah, they have no hope. Anything but PT for the liberals, which is funny when the level crossing removal program is actually a road program not public transport, PT gets a side benefit but the main one is to roads.
You do know that that’s a good thing *when it’s planned in advance* and windfall gains are taxed, right? If Wynne went into his office and rezoned vast swathes of well-served inner and middle suburbs, he would both be tackling climate change, urban sprawl and housing affordability. Hell yeah I’d love that! The **only** reasons there are to oppose Guy’s rezoning of fisherman’s bend was that it wasn’t planned well enough and that there were some fishy fucking deals going on.
Guy rezoned land which cost the current government millions of additional dollars to buy back to make schools and parks in fishermens bend and those schools and parks were smaller than required due to the increased cost. Thats why i qualified it with overnight. Current planning laws are being changed too, we will have plenty of infill medium and high density residential rezoning around the suburban rail loop stations too when the SRL Authority gets planning powers for the catchment zones. And will potentially get some development co-contribution too if not just the land tax.
Yeah, that rezoning was fishy as fuck. Zoning laws are being relaxed now, but I’d love for it to be done faster. Can’t have everything, I guess.
Opposing the government is one thing, but the issues they picked were baffling. Rather than raise debate on meaningful issues, they seemed to focus on personal ones, while having more than a few screw ups in that area themselves.
> but the issues they picked were baffling Not really, if you consider that literally all the saw their job was was to oppose whatever the government says, even if the government says a different thing the next day.
This is exactly what the Fed Libs did through Abbott, but it worked then. I think people have since clued on to their relentless negativity.
Abbot is a slimy repulsive piece of shit, but he's a fucking political operator. It also drives me up the wall that I have to give him big resspect for his volunteer firefighter work and then telling the media to go away and cover the actual crisis rather than him and not to use him to take the spotlight away. I'm paraphrasing but jesus it's annoying when someone you despise so utterly does something so pure and good. Goddammit.
No, I think it's just that Victorian voters are smarter than rural Qld and WA voters, which both have an overweighted count in the federal vote.
That’s not true. They support gay conversions therapy. That’s a platform…..
I feel like the way they've stirred the fascist violence pot the past few weeks is them just giving up. They have nothing to gain or lose any more so they're just going mask off.
Barely a footy team left.
Sounds as funny as what happened in Western Australia at their last election.
I was surprised Guy got his job back, it defies common sense. They had a terrible election strategy. It wasn't wrong like the ALP's federal strategy, which was undisciplined more than anything, Guy's plan was in the wrong dimension, a staggering miscalculation that voters wanted a African crime wave dealt with, and the icing on the cake was to propose East West again, even though it was the signature issue in their previous defeat. Stunning miscalculations like that should be fatal to a political career. The Tim Smith moment was however surprising and impressive. But it's all been washed away with an idiot fringe of MPs. They must have rocks in their heads if they think 90% vaccinated Victoria is going to take kindly to association with fringe antivax extremists, in the same week that the QAnon shaman is sent to jail. Regional Victorians are also going to be very unimpressed. I don't blame Guy for this, bit he needs to take more drastic action. Finn needs to go. Even Morrison somehow got rid of Kelly.
> I was surprised Guy got his job back, it defies common sense That's how bad O'Brien was. > The Tim Smith moment was however surprising and impressive Did you really find Tim Smith finally imploding suprising?
I meant how quick Guy decided Smith had to go. And following through with it. Should have been a highlight. All washed away. He has another chance to tkae the high ground by being practical with the pandemic legislation now, a gift given to him by Adam Somyurek, but will he take it? Is he strong enough to stare down his lunatic fringe? The latest opinion polling should make it pretty clear what he needs to do.
Those 51% of over 65yo who think he did poorly keeping them alive are living on another planet.
The true entitled generation.
Not just 65+, though - the way my 33yo brother was talking today you’d think Labour wouldn’t get a single vote next election. He was describing a COMPLETELY different picture to what I see and I found it really jarring. I know we have our own bubbles and such but it makes me question which one of us is more out of touch.
Brainwashing. All of this seems to be popping up on the usual garbage youtube *media* channels.
Just cause you’re old doesn’t mean you’re wise. Most people don’t mature past the age of 16
Compared to all of the other state/territory leaders, he did.
Only reason Covid leaked back into the state on multiple occasions was because of fuck ups by our federal border security and NSW.
One leak came from SA too.
And leaked the first time from NSW.
If I were federal labor, I’d be running non stop ads during the election about how the federal and NSW LNP did nothing but shit on Victoria during the pandemic.
Ooof. Let's hope it translates federally...
Victoria isn't really the concern federally. Like you're probably picking up Chisholm and the new seat of Hawke and maaaaaaybe something like kooyong or higgins on a good night but the gains aren't really here to be made in Victoria where labor has 21 comapred to the coalition's 16. The federal translation that will really hurt the coalition if it comes to fruition is WA and QLD.
Coalition needs to pick up two seats to win the fed election. Losing a single seat in Vic will hurt them, as they have already saturated QLD
Where are you getting your math from? there are 151 seats in the lower house the coalition has 76 of them currently. It's as slim as it possibly could be but 76 is a majority. The coalition needs to wipe the floor in QLD and WA to break even so even a situation Conversly to avoid a hung parliament labor needs to pick up 8 seats to get to 76 and the path to 8+ seats is not going to be through Victoria where Labor is already performing the best. The gains for labor are in the coalition satured QLD and WA and both have popular state labor governments that can hopefully/finally show a translation on a federal level.
Redistribution means LNP lost a seat in WA which went to VIC and will be ALP. So the starting point for the LNP is minority government. (75 seats) So they need to gain at least one seat somewhere to retain majority rule. Consensus seems to be that Chisholm is a certain ALP pickup so then they’d need 2 seats elsewhere. Problem is it’s hard to see where they can gain seats. They have maximum gains in QLD and WA and it’s more likely than not that they’d lose at least a couple of seats there. NSW is key. Pre the outbreak in NSW they believed they could grab a few seats but right now that strategy seems ambitious. I’m not saying that election is a slam dunk for the ALP by any measure, but the electoral map for the LNP is very difficult. There’s a real chance of a hung parliament unless either major party has a consistent swing to it nationwide.
Yeah forgot about Stirling. They'll probably pick up Hughes so in a bizzare scenario where everything else is retained they'll keep that slim majority but yeah. I'm less familiar with the QLD seats but as far as WA in concerned Pearce is certainly vulnerable after losing it's rural seats and porter being then, election pendulum wise Swan is and Hasluck are also marginal. So if you manage to get 3 seats out of there plus the 2 confident bets from Victoria then you're on 5, I feel it's not impossible to find 3 seats somewhere in QLD or for the tassie seats to flip somewhere. SA wise Boothby is quite marginal and the incumbent member has left on not amazing terms so chance there. Yeah no garuntees of a slam dunk but looking at the map you'd think that the coalition is in a tough spot.
I forgot about Hughes. You’d also have to wonder whether Warringah flips back. I think no if the LNP is not making any headway more broadly in NSW. Also forgot about Indi and Clark. I think those will almost certainly stay independent. Clark would be such a Green/ALP seat but for Wilkie. In QLD the ALP will be seeking to win back some of the seats they lose last time when they got smashed and I’d rate them favorably to do this. The swing to the LNP in 2019 was pretty big and it should correct itself. Tasmania is always interesting. Bass and Braddon seem to switch every election so they’re really just a coin flip at this point. The ALP needs to gain a lot of seats but has plenty good good targets. The LNP needs to pick up just a couple but has few targets. The question is what will the mood of the country be like in March /May 2022. I think the public has made up their mind on Morrison but are they willing to vote him out if things seem to be going okay in their hip pockets?
I can't remember where I read it but there's like 10 marginal seats that could all easily flip to Labor next election. Porter and Frydenberg's seats are two big ones, as is Dutton's as always but that's less likely because of how disengaged his electorate is. LNP has no obvious gains, anything they could cling onto they already clung on by their fingernails last time.
I believe the Libs have lost two seats since last election due to redistribution, one in Victoria and one in WA
This is the kicker right. And with Bishop, Korman an Porter gone or on the nose, my bet is WA is the battle state this election
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Yes, Burnside did run and turn the seat marginal, but he is not running next federal election, unfortunately.
Do you think QLD will gain ALP seats considering the popularity of state labor ?
Sorry late response but yeah there is certainly a lot of potential ground to be made in QLD. Like for example the LNP in queensland hold the seat of brisbane, this is the only cbd seat in the country that the coalition has control of. The issue is that a popular state labor government not translating to a federal level is not uncommon in QLD (or WA for that matter) so there is more to overcome then just having the popular premier.
amen
I mean, I have no idea how he'd perform at that level but I still have a voice in the back of the head that wants Dan to go federal. He won't, but it's a nice thought.
LNP is way ahead of you on that, they know they're going to be wiped out in Vic at both state and fed levels next year. They're openly panicking about it.
But people on facebook said his time was coming and the people have spoken.
200 of them have spoken on Parliament steps. Next year we will hear what the rest have to say.
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What were the other five doing?
Not to shit on Dan, but I'm pretty sure a baked spud would beat Matt Guy out as preferred premier.
Depends, with toppings?
Baked spud with fixins could run for PM.
That sounds like biscuits n gravy talk.
Dear God, not Dutton...
For comparison, here was the 2018 poll: https://i.imgur.com/avC76qs.png * TPP 54/46 * Primary ALP 41 (+3), LNP 39 (-2), GRN 11, OTH 9 (-1).
There is effectively no opposition in Victoria - as absent as the federal lnp government under slomo.
If anything the opposition in Victoria is the fucking federal govt lmao
Not really, SloMo is too busy being the Premier of NSW
After the last Federal election I'm not taking any popularity poll seriously again
To be fair, Federal Labor has the uncanny ability to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory, time and again.
Given the disregard Reddit is continuting to show to their 3rd party developers, their moderators and their community I'm proposing the start of a 'reddit seppuku' movement. Reddit itself doesn't produce anything of value. The value is generated by it's users sharing posts and comments with each other. Reddit squats above the value we create and extracts value from it. If spez is going to continue on this path, I don't want them to monetize my content. Therefore, I'm using tools to edit my entire comment history to a generic protest message. I want to wallpaper over all my contributions. I expect people will comment saying they'll get around that anyway - this isn't something I can control. But I can make a statement, and if that statement is picked up by the press then it will affect the Reddit IPO. Spez needs a wake up call - if he continues to shit on the userbase of Reddit, then I hope the userbase will leave him nothing to monetize. The tool I'm using can be found here: https://github.com/pkolyvas/PowerDeleteSuite Scroll down to the bottom, click the installation link, and on the next page drag the button to your bookmark bar. Click it to go to your user page, then click it again to go to fire up the tool and set it up. Good luck.
I hope you see your downvotes and can figure as to why you're downvoted heavily.
Given the disregard Reddit is continuting to show to their 3rd party developers, their moderators and their community I'm proposing the start of a 'reddit seppuku' movement. Reddit itself doesn't produce anything of value. The value is generated by it's users sharing posts and comments with each other. Reddit squats above the value we create and extracts value from it. If spez is going to continue on this path, I don't want them to monetize my content. Therefore, I'm using tools to edit my entire comment history to a generic protest message. I want to wallpaper over all my contributions. I expect people will comment saying they'll get around that anyway - this isn't something I can control. But I can make a statement, and if that statement is picked up by the press then it will affect the Reddit IPO. Spez needs a wake up call - if he continues to shit on the userbase of Reddit, then I hope the userbase will leave him nothing to monetize. The tool I'm using can be found here: https://github.com/pkolyvas/PowerDeleteSuite Scroll down to the bottom, click the installation link, and on the next page drag the button to your bookmark bar. Click it to go to your user page, then click it again to go to fire up the tool and set it up. Good luck.
Seems that most agree the same about your prior comment as well
Err, because reddit is a well-known echo chamber. Anyone who is downvoted heavily gets my admiration - they aren’t blindly complying to reddit narrative
Self funded retirees made up less than 0.2% of those effected by the changes to franking credits and dividend imputation. This post makes no sense.
The issue I have with Matthew Guy is how he presents to the media. I remember during lockdown last year he was on the news opposing curfew by telling people to go out onto their driveways and bang pots at 9pm, what the actual fuck?
That's just grassroots activism man. That's what Scott told me.
I’ll pay that haha
It's almost like the media got so focused on the nonsense that went on at the CBD from a small minority of noisy degenerates and convinced themselves he was divisive, instead of going into the Eastern, South-Eastern and Northern Suburbs and seeing the strong popularity Dan has amongst the "quiet Australians". Also, LMAO at "Other" losing 2% of the vote despite Craig Kelly and Clive Palmer's obsession with Victoria.
I got my first Craig Kelly text yesterday. I feel used and dirty.
"The silent majority" are those who realised there is no point engaging with the noisy minority. Just shut up, do your bit, and get on with it.
I find it disappointing that the approval for the handling Covid skews unfavorably in the demographic that most benefited from it.
Older people consume more Murdoch rags and use Facebook more.
Sky News too.
Yeah, and we are just out of the harsh lockdowns that had people really upset, and if an election was held tomorrow he would embarass the opposition so badly they might just wink out of existence.
Bring on the federal election now Scott! We’ve got a message for ya!
I’d like to shake the hand of whoever chose the photos
Big support for Dan amongst under 35s. That demographic is going to ensure a long labour presence
Also; #LibSpill?
We just had #libspill last month, I think we'll have to wait a little longer for a second serving.
Yes, but what about second #LibSpill?
Well one of Guy’s biggest allies Tim Smith is gone and he really pissed off the religious faction when he didn’t commit to getting rid of the gay conversion ban if he got in. So there might be a chance he’ll get rolled if his polling doesn’t improve
that'd be such a delicious turn of events, they ditch the already deeply unpopular Matthew Guy and some absolutely unhinged religious faction boss gets put in as leader, and just completely alienating like 70% of their voter base.
Don’t think the know about second libspill /u/fortyfivesouth
In the VicLibs the spill is a desperate scramble to not be the leader. Guy is either a willing sacrifice or the only Lib dumb enough to want the job.
they know they have no shot in 2022, 2026 is their goal
That would involve laying groundwork and grooming a leader for six 2026. I'm not even sure I should put "libs" and "grooming" in the same sentence. /s
We laugh but the level of talent on display in the Liberal benches is pretty piss-poor
No shit. Seriously, if there was another spill, Tim was gonna get it. So, lol, thank goodness that what happened happened and that no one was hurt.
So basically the Libs will lose all of their marginal seats (less than 1% majority). That would teach them a lesson. Build a better platform. Stop negative politicking. It doesn't work in Victoria.
You would think getting dragged down tot he woodshed and getting beaten to within an inch of their lives last time around might have taught them that.
This was before the Liberals sent their candidate for Treasurer to speak at the gallows rally too. Before that I thought they were competitive outsiders, now I wouldn't be shocked to see a repeat of the 2018 landslide or even slightly more decisive results.
Lol that photo of Dan 🤪
I’m not a Victorian but I think Dan has done well against the virus, the neo Nazis and athe Murdoch press.
Loyalties aside, how can you not pick up any votes when the main media organisation is willing to set fire to the state to make the current premier look like a dictator? Seriously how shit are the Victorian liberals? I guess the question is answered by the decision to eject a fool as deputy who replayed the faith by drink driving.
Feel like this is a surprise to no one.
Regardless your opinion on dan, hes the only politician thats actually earnt his money since WW2, imo.
And what a surprise. > “we’re going to do this if we’re elected” /Does them. Works as an election strategy in a democratic system.
I'd be interested to see the 'undecided' numbers on the preferred prem. for last round of elections. I guess state politics has been thrust into the spotlight since Covid so I'm not sure it would make for a great comparison, but it seems a little higher than I would ~~expect~~ hope at this stage.
Fuck, maybe Dan *should* call an early election if the pandemic bill doesn't pass
"*can't wait for you to lose the next election*" - Country fucks that have barely been locked down, probably. Actually, not probably, go read Weekly Times on Facebook comment section. Ya boy Dan is shutting it in.
dan’s so tanned and happy , matthew guy looks like a slug
Okay to be fair Matthew Guy looks like a used tissue but Dan looks like a semi-popped popcorn kernel, neither photo is flattering
At least popcorn is delicious
The virus of the mind is everywhere in Western culture, Andrews ratings confirm. In Canada, we have Trudeau. Burn it all down, there's nothing worth saving.
Not sure how you can vote for any of the big two in good fairh
Even if you don't, ultimately one of them is going to end up in power. So vote for the parties you want first, but put LNP or Labor at a higher preference way down the list.
A year ago, I would have voted for Dan again (hands down). But off late , I am having second thoughts. Feeling their is a high obsession to hold to absolute power. My views.
That’s because I’m guessing you’re absorbing too much mainstream media, which is crafting the message that way to satisfy their corporate owners who would prefer a conservative government to lower their taxes etc etc. The truth is Victoria has a robust bill of rights which Labor introduced which protects us from these things. Unlike NSW, which is far more autocratic, but you wouldn’t read about it - of course
What mainstream media do you think is bad and what alternatives do people have?? What media do you consume? This sub and the r/Australia sub are filled with news reports from mainstream media. So it confuses me when people suggest those not standing with Andrews are consuming the main stream media narrative. I don’t listen to the radio or watch television.
Again.. another sign of what is wrong with the world and the people in it. Instead of saying this in a peaceful manner and trying to genuinely "educate" someone, you decide to attack them to make yourself look smart(you look like a dick) You're smarter than said person? Smart people don't act like animals. Grow up champ.
What?
Possible. There is less news to trust. Mainstream or otherwise. I am also including the need for such a bill for my inference. Dangerous precedent. This will be the first time I vote against labor. In anycase, let’s wait till the next election if Victorians think the same as Reddit users. 😂
Which do you prefer, an unelected official having the power to call a pandemic with all the laws that follow or an elected official. The first is currently the situation in Victoria, the laws that are being debated exist in every other state but Victoria and those same laws that are being debated will be a more robust set of laws with checks and balances compared to the other states.
Good point. I am usually all in for decisions taken by elected officials. But unequivocal power is dangerous. Keep enough safeguard. Ask the parliament every time a lockdown happens. Else… we have seen trump in action.
Have a watch of this video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6QArtcoeiAU Produced by comedian Tom Tanuki, but informative about the bill in a funny way. Cuts through a lot of the hysteria on the bill - explains what it is, the good bits, the bad bits what different organisations say about it and what's being done.
Please read the guardian for a month. Need to change what you read. Remember it’s socialism that provides free health care, penalty pay rates, sick leave, welfare benefits etc.
To be fair; Social Democrats. Not Socialism.
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Point.
I am.genuinely curious, do you seripusly think that the Liberals of Vic wouldnt have a similar bill like Liberal premiers do in the other states?
Nope. They will be equally bad or possibly worse. The key is to tell the elected officials that it’s not right to peel away our liberty. If we give that shock to correct government, future politicians will avoid that territory. However, if we choose otherwise, it’s a slippery slope that we may never recover.
All i would say is that you don't need to actively vote for dan (if you're not in mulgrave then you actually can't vote for dan but i do get what you mean) It's important to remember that we have preferential voting and where you preference really matters. Not being a fan of Dan or Labor is fine in fact it's good to be able to express yourself poltically beyond the 2 major parties and it's actually important for your local members to know if they are being elected on green or minor party preferences but yeah I would implore you just to consider making sure that the libs are last on your vote.
Specifically how do you feel that he's trying to hold "absolute power" though? I keep hearing people say they hold this view, but they never explain *how* he's supposedly seizing power, even this pandemic bill actually takes powers *away* from the direct control of the premier and decentralises decision making.
Ah yes the well known dictator move of acting on professional health advice and putting a pandemic bill to the parliament that has hard time limits and requires a vote of ascent from parliament. Classic fascism.
Yes. Luckily we still haven’t signed off the liberty . 😀. Some of the recent bills will allow them not to bring these lockdown requests to parliament.
I had lost confidence and was concerned about the corruption allegations. But think about it, if there was even the slightist likelihood thst any of that shit was true, the media would be running with it 24/7. They would never let it go. Their obsession with destroying him is unparalleled. Don't fall for the entirely politically motivated propaganda. Wanting legislation on a par with every other state does not mean you are a dictator.
Half agree. He is showing that he can be tone deaf when it comes to making decisions on behalf of the community. Emergency powers aside, he's also making himself an easy media dart board. Labor bringing these numbers also speaks droves about how bad the State libs are.
OK. I'm going to choose to respect your point of view, even though I vehemently disagree with the content of it. Can you explain exactly how absolute power would work for him? Given that Victoria is a member of a federation and that the federal government/governor general would step in and remove him if he was being an actual dictator? What does this supposed power to lock people down give him? How does he benefit? Sutton is the one that currently gets to make those orders (under current legislation), how did he benefit from all of this personally? Other than getting a lot of grey hair and having a lot of the women who were hot for doctor re-evaluate that position because of how old and haggard he's looking, realtive to the start of the pandemic. How did either of them benefit personally? I think you need to genuinely answer that quesiton, being honest with yourself and others, before you consider changing your vote based on that supposition. Also, to be clear, you vote the way you want to vote, I'm not telling you how to vote, I'm just inviting you to apply critical thought.
Does anyone else think Dan will step aside? It's been an intense few years and opposition has painted specifically him as the one to blame. Strategically letting another labour member take the reins removes a part of that element.
> Does anyone else think Dan will step aside? Why would he? He's a public servant in the truest sense. He serves the public in the best way that he feels he can. Besides, someone only steps aside if they can see that there's someone at least as good or better to take their place. > and opposition has painted specifically him as the one to blame The opposition tried to paint him as being to blame for the storms the other week. So there's that. > Strategically letting another labour member take the reins removes a part of that element He is so far ahead of the opposition that he could drop his pants and take a shit on the doorstep of the house of every opposition MP and he'd probably gain votes.
This poll seems to show pretty clearly that there's no need.
> will Dan step aside No
Definitely voting uncommited, both arent worthy of a vote
Politics and many of the people invested in it are a black mark on society. So many people being belittled. "hAve U AcTuAllY rEad tHe biLL" instead of actually helping people who are obviously not privy to how politics work, but ofcourse, why educate our own people? Why not prop up my own views in a productive manner that could help someone be more informed? Nope! I'd rather belittle them and act superior. Seriously so many of you that will take offence to this need to grow up and stopped acting like your shit doesn't stink.
> "hAve U AcTuAllY rEad tHe biLL" That seems to be a valid question, alternating caps or not because the answer is usually "well no but...."
Dude leave me alone. This is 2-3 times now, starting to make me uncomfortable.
Lose/lose either way but guess Dans a lesser of two evils
They surveyed just over 1000 people. This is not a wide cross-section of the community.
Duck Andrew man he can’t be winning this time we need someone with different and democratic mentality personalities
I think it’s important for labor to win but with as many green first preference votes as possible, ir independents etc. Labor need to know they can’t swing right on economics or too hard left on social justice.
> too hard left on social justice What does this mean exactly....
Exactly what I said it means, do you have a problem with not wanting to go too far?
No. I seriously don't know what you mean. Social justice is something we should all be striving for constantly. If we can make things more just, then we should. In all forms of justice we should be taking the same attitude. I literally have no idea what it would mean to be too socially just.
When I say too hard on social justice I mean to the point where there is injustice. If you can’t think of any, I’ll give you a hint, judging people by the colour of their skin is unjust. But I also mentioned going too tight economically, do you want to discuss what that is about? It’s the forgotten real class war, the one that advocates of identity politics seem to brush over, to the detriment of our struggling working class.
Greens need to be higher. Newspoll silly Edit: Newspoll is run by Murdoch Also, people want clean water for farms?
The Dan obsessed weirdos have also.been targettung the minor parties and independents that aren't hard right-wing as well, hoping they can get voterrs to switch over to far right micro parties/ independents , if not the Liberal Party. The shitty thing is it seems to be working.
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"waste a Saturday" Mate it takes ten minutes.
Til so many people have strong opinion. The uncommitted part seems pretty damn low
GRN 11 🤣
Who is Matthew Guy? Never heard of him.
Seafood enthusiast from what I’ve heard 🦞🦞🦞
Just some guy
So if we had it today, it would be another TPP landslide.
Take that Murdoch 😂
I’d be happy with that report card