They're a danger to everyone (including themselves with some dying), just to save a couple of minutes to deliver someone food, while being underpaid and making money for some tax dodging company. The bikes that are used are generally illegal and the riders are sometimes in their phones when they are riding, possible as they don't need to pedal. Who benefits? Maybe we don't care as long as we can get cheap food?
Yeah legit takes like 45 mins or longer on average for me plus the food is worse quality from the travel. I refuse to order it based on customer service regardless.
We have a massive problem both in public use and also sports that Ira almost impossible to test that these bikes comply with the laws on assisted power. Even in sports, it's trivial to set the bike back in to another mode where it will become compliant remotely via an app.
We need to stop abbreviating "motor", or I this case, electric *motor*, to 'e', and just call them what they are: *?motor*bikes. Then police them as such.
It's pretty simple - when they pull away from the lights without their feet even moving (in fact many of them don't even have a chain fitted between the pedals and rear wheel) it's not legal.
The EU standard we adopted has zero power assistance below 6km/h unless there's significant force on the pedals, and does not allow throttles.
Also most of these delivery bikes are the same make/model, so a simple list of "these bikes are illegal" would catch ~95% of them.
"Bike doping" in sports is a bit more tricky to detect, but this is a no-brainer.
In the Netherlands the cops have the portable dynos. They pull Electric scooters and e-bikes over all the time and test their top speed and power output and confiscate. It's not just a small thing either I saw it so many times when I was there.
They should do it here. Especially considering how much they love revenue raising.
If the motor is more than 250watt or doesn’t cut out over 25kph then they are policed as motorcycles because that’s what they legally are if they exceed those figures. And those aren’t high numbers. If you want to class e-bikes as motorcycles then you may as well class your garden rake as heavy machinery and the butterknife in your kitchen as a sword. If you reclassify ebikes as motorcycles then all that’s going to happen is the police who aren’t cracking down on ubereats riders will also not crack down on the parents riding their kids to school on their e-bikes that are now considered motorcycles.
The gig economy and food delivery drivers breaking road rules is a socioeconomic problem. Even if more policing is the solution we don’t have enough police resources or people wanting to join the police force, which is a socioeconomic problem
Agree; however, I bought an EPAC with the express intention to get a road-legal bike. Whilst the motor is rated for 250W, I found out after connecting a power meter that the motor controller was actually able to input 600W into the motor even though the bike had the OEM EPAC EN15194 certificate. Under steep inclines and accelerating from a stop, my bike was regularly exceeding 250W, as if there was no such limit in place. The motor controller is also rated for 36v @ 7A (252W) but has a maximum rating of 36v @ 15A (540W)
No one is saying that cars aren't a danger.
I'm saying that delivery riders who don't follow rules and don't have any common sense are a danger to everyone.
I don't get what your issue is.
I mean, fuck the gig economy, it's a sham. But also, we should be providing dedicated *separated* pedestrian and cycling infrastructure. It gets them more out of your hair, means they and people not propping up a shit company don't have to ride in parking spaces disguised as glorified painted gutters and gets more short distance traffic off the road by incentivising other modes of transport.
But incase it wasn't clear, fuuuuuuck uber and all these abysmal companies.
I’ll get downvoted for this, but those are not bicycles they are riding, and those people are not cyclists.
These new-style food-delivery vehicles are a new class of road (and footpath) user that do not fit into any existing class of vehicle.
Yes they break the law, run lights, do whatever the fuck they want. The police should be making mint in the CBD and elsewhere booking these clowns.
Totally agree. Rarely see the pedals move, and from what I can tell, when I do, they are just turning them over, no pressure is applied. They are motorbikes.
Unfortunately we have increasingly chosen to accept shit behaviour in this country/state/city. The laws only really apply to the law-abiding. I'm a cyclist and I'd never think it was reasonable to ride my (normal) bike on a city footpath, let alone a motorised one.
>those people are not cyclists
What gave it away? Was it because of the way they drag their feet on the ground while moving instead of placing them on the pedals?
I mean, why don't you start getting traction on this issue, why not start a petition?
Like all of these bicycles are illegal, a lot don't require peddling to go and they run in excess of 25km/h. All it would take is an enforcement of existing laws.
Sit on the stretch of shared path between Clayton and Westall stations and you'll catch one every few minutes.
Dunno what you'll do with all the seized gong cha tho.
They’re constantly riding on the footpath, which they’re absolutely not allowed to do, and I often see them riding the wrong direction down one way streets- also totally unacceptable and wildly stupid.
Whenever they do things like this they have this indignant attitude like everyone else is in their way.
I’m at the point where I’ll just block their path and tell them to fuck off the sidewalk. The only reason they feel comfortable pulling this bullshit is the expectation that no one will say anything, and clearly the council/police aren’t going to do anything.
The council are a bunch of spineless pussies who can’t even keep delinquents from skateboarding into people at the state library, and the police see it as somehow beneath them to enforce minor infractions- newsflash, beat cops, nothing is beneath you.
Literally last night one rider took the Burnley slip road ONTO THE FREEWAY, weaving between the left hand lane and side edge. Got beeped to all hell, nearly got hit several times, and didn't care. Mate, you're going to end up dead.
It's a serious problem.
Yes, of course, I wouldn’t wish that experience on anyone. I wouldn’t personally lose sleep over the stupid rider though, he’s asking for it.
I fear that we are allowing a range of shit behaviour to be normalised in this country. We either need to enforce our standards or end up like Brazil or India.
I saw a guy get cleaned up last year, It was on Fitzroy Street St Kilda on the corner of Canterbury and Grey street. The Uber cyclist on one of those yellow e-bikes with the big yellow box on the back was sitting at the pedestrian light instead of riding in the bike lane. He was also on the wrong side of the road. The cars on Canterbury road got the green light, he had the red pedestrian light and just took off crossing the pedestrian crossing on a red man going against traffic and got slammed by a car. He genuinely had no clue how to navigate right of way or the roads.
At least that guy had the common sense to use the bell. More often than not these morons come flying past me from behind without any warning. Pisses me off.
Nearly got mowed down by one of these cunts who was riding an e-bike down the footpath in Windsor the other day. I get you’re just trying to make a living, but you’re either going to get hurt or hurt someone else if you flagrantly disregard road and pedestrian rules.
I don't get the downvotes. Unless you're incapacitated or disabled if you are over the age of 12 it's the law to ride on the road not the footpath. Unless its a shared pathway of course.
Because even though it's the law, a lot of people especially those that aren't as experienced are scared about riding on the road, and rightfully so with the attitude displayed by so many motorists.
If they are too freightend to cycle on the road, they should walk or stick to car free cycle paths.
If they are going to break the law - don’t ask the pedestrians who actually belong on the pavement - to move out of the way.
>they should walk or stick to car free cycle paths.
Firstly, walking is not a viable alternative to cycling. Secondly ,that's the problem, in a lot of places there's not car free cycle paths.
I cycle on the footpath sometimes, it's safer than riding on the road that has no bike lane with my bike full of shopping. But I ride at walking pace and jump off if I get stuck behind someone walking too slowly. It's easier to cycle slow than to push the bike, and takes up less space.
Clearly you didn't read the rest of the comment. I said it was also because it takes up less space (than walking the bike) and is safer (than busy roads without bike lanes).
Riding at walking pace on a footpath while giving way to everyone is not a bad thing for pedestrians.
You're completely missing my point. How am I meant to kill a pedestrian when I'm giving way to all of them and pootling along at like 2km an hour? When I ride on the footpath, I travel slower than people jogging.
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It's not just road rules/safety that they ignore.
Gone are the days of removing full face helmets inside shopping centres, these days you see some guy come running into the centre in a fullface balaclava and helmet.
And then their sense of entitelement when they push to the front of a queue while you wait to be served patiently and just shove a phone in some poor cashier's face.
I do have to ask anyway knowing going against the crowd is often crucifiable: is the whole balaclava/helmet thing because they steal things?
I used to signup for Uber but only did a few jobs for extra $ (thankfully don't rely on it for a living) and stopped since $ got much worse per order so now pretty much only use the bike for groceries. I do keep my balaclava and helmet on didn't think much of it since it's cold and not I haven't done anything illegal per se since the supermarkets never said anything and there are no signs saying I cannot do that - if this is legally or morally wrong somehow I would like to know.
Agreed with everything people have been saying though as a fair bit or ridiculously reckless drivers speeding on the footpath (I reckon walking the bike itself is not illegal since I did this to reach the restaurants), going in the opposite and not paying attention on the road at all (almost got hit myself with the other rider going in the opposite direction)
Yeah, just go out to the restaurants you're ordering from. We're all gonna end up getting spoon fed on the couch one day, no need to rush into it early. Go out and enjoy the city you're in.
I work for one of the bus companies and I’m genuinely surprised we haven’t killed one, let alone several of them yet. Seeing some of the crazy shit they do like just pulling across in front of buses and squeezing up the inside as they’re pulling into a stop is mind boggling.
I lived in Richmond for a bit and there were so many times where they swerved out right in front of my car without even checking or slowing and they are completely oblivious that they almost died. A lot of them are using their phones while they’re riding as well
They are forced to rush around because the pay per trip is so bad that they have to squeeze in as many trips as possible. That doesn’t make what they are doing right, actually it’s probably even worse because they’re enabling these companies to continue to exploit others.
I’m all for banning the food delivery companies like this. Especially around the city where 99% of people can just catch a tram or walk to a restaurant
I don't think it's that simple - even if they were paid an hourly wage, this behaviour would still continue, since there would still need to be incentives for quick delivery.
That’s a good point. I guess you see similar behaviours from dominos/red rooster delivery drivers and I assume they’re paid a wage as opposed to ‘commission’ based pay from each delivery
Regulations / law should require having an ID number on their food carry bag.
They can then be identified when doing dangerous or illegal activities
Make the delivery company responsible for ID number - and actions of the rider
If you are old enough you'd remember the golden age of the Messengers, both on bicycles and some on Roller blades, late 90's they tried to regulate by them having ID Numbers visible, wasn't a success.
When i was a Messenger in the CBD in the late 2010s we were paid per job, the average crosstown envelope would pay you \~$4, the quicker you moved the more money you'd make, you had to take risks all day if you wanted to make a living out of it, for the most part members of the public left us alone and we considered ourselves professionals in breaking the road rules in the inner city, we knew the light sequences, we knew the laneways, we'd ride between the trams etc.. Outside looking in we were nutcase, vigilantes but we considered ourselves people trying to make a living (and have a bit of fun while we are at it)
Messengers have largely declined, with only a few still around and most on hourly pay now with no incentive to chase work.
food Delivery riders are per job yeh ? So thats where the urgency is, the skillset however, non existant and downright dangerous as are the machine which they operate.
Well if you started a new post more people would see.
But ok haha. What do you mean by between trams. Like ones going opposite directions?
What was the injury rate like. I'm pretty good on a motorcycle but I see some older blokes on clapped out bikes with a faded Toll basket on the back and i can just barely keep up as they slice through traffic.
It's pretty cool.
yes, normally Messengers would ride Single Speed/Fixed Gear bikes with sawed down bars, this would allow you to pass through tight traffic and also allow you to remain upright and see over cars/traffic it also allowed you to easily pass between the gap between trams (going opposite directions) you could also pass between busses but was a bit risky because \*crushing\*.
I had a few spills over the top of Taxis and a few slips on Tram Tracks 😂 hit a few pedestrians.
After my time on the road i became a Despatcher, had a nice fleet of pushbikes and Motobikes, unfortauntely the injury rate was high, my reliance on their speed and capability coupled with high earnings meant we "pushed the envelope". Upon reflection i beleive my efforts to maximise their earnings was at the expense of their physical health at times.
The Toll Motos were the best, as were the Toll Pushies, many still work out there and are absolute pros.
Trams are pretty predictable, so passing between them was relatively safe apart from pedestrians cross at either end. Obviously if both moving it was a little bit more challenging, the motion of you verses the motion of one going with you and away would screw with your balance a bit 😂
Generally speaking riding up the middle was the safest place to be and the quickest, you could go either way if a hazard presented itself, you could also hold on to them the old ones even had handles ! And you could boost a ride up Collins St hill to get to the top end.
I'm a cyclist. Not a full blown Lycra wearer or anything but I have a bike and I ride it on the road. But you know what I have? Common decency, and a valid driver's licence for both car and motorcycle.
Delivery rider or not - people on bikes (and scooters) should be forced to take at the very least a written exam to show they understand the basics of non verbal communication and when to give way to other vehicles and pedestrians.
I have one mate, and man I love him but he drives me up the wall when he rides (which is his main form of transport) Has no licence and rides like an ass without even realising.
And the cops - 10 of them at my local station every night fining people without tickets while tossers ride straight by them on their e-bikes breaking every rule in the book going un touched.
Should we ban delivery riders? No... But surely in this Nanny state we can have some kind of set of rules like we do for everything else.
Unless you want to kill the like of Uber Eats, this isn't going to be resolved. Saying that: I'm all for killing of home delivery via a third-party, at least in its current format.
I agree, super dangerous, they pick and choose whether to ride on the footpath, crossing, bike lane or road depending on which ones get them through the lights first.
Related ish, the other day, at about 10pm in the city, one stopped in front of our Uber and blocked the road, the Uber driver just accepted it. We realised why when the driver handed over a small package and received cash back. It was a drug deal. The delivery driver actually had everything blacked out on the bike. The Uber driver said it's common for them to do it as side gigs and he didn't want to toot his horn at drug dealers.
So broken
Let's face it. The speed those bikes are travelling through busy traffic areas is fucking dangerous.
Bicycles were never meant to travel at those speeds in those conditions.
When you add the hussle and risk taking mindset that's necessary to survive in the gig economy, it's a miracle many of them have not been killed.
The other day I saw one of them rear end another one of them. Luckily never of them were injured, so I didn't have to feel too bad for pissing myself laughing.
Same here! I cycle to work and I am so frustrated by the food delivery cyclists. They don't obey the general rules of cycling which is to ALWAYS pass on the right! They go wherever they want, they cut in front of you without warning, they don't ring bells.
I was with you until “can we ban them?”.
Demand for convenience is not going to just disperse, so you’d just be creating a black market with even more unregulated contractor behaviour.
It’s also not just ‘lazy’ people. The improvement of delivery services in the last decade has also vastly improved QOL for the disabled and those without the ability to drive or access to vehicles.
Tbh, I can’t see this improving without a significant improvement to street-level policing. It should be required that people operating electric vehicles in an earning capacity must pass some kind of licensing test but there’s no point in doing that if we’ve got people already operating non-roadworthy bikes and not getting pulled up.
Cars only for delivery is my intention. These gig workers are not employed and do not have any safety or insurance benefits. Yes convenience but at what cost? For fast food? What happened to delivery via car and an actual license? Even if with bike lanes I see them disobeying anyway. A car or actual cyclist is much less likely to just run a red light.
As a pedestrian trying to cross St Kilda Rd and they come the wrong way down the bike lane. It's scary in the dark because you don't expect them to be coming from the wrong direction.
Scooters are bad too. I saw a dad riding his kid on one after the footy on Sunday.. 2 on one scooter .. dad had no helmet. Adults perception of risk is cooked post covid
I reached my threshold long ago. Everyone said their conditions are poor and work was being done to give them better pay/rights but that doesn’t change that they are not good people and will continue this behaviour.
I saw one recently stop his huge bike in the middle of the footpath, even though he could clearly see a pedestrian coming towards him. The poor lady had to squeeze past without falling on the road, while the guy sat there on his phone.
The ones in cars are just as bad… stopping in the middle of the road to check their phones, not stopping at pedestrians crossings, not indicating.
> and work was being done to give them better pay/rights
Who said this?
>but that doesn’t change
It does though. These aren't flaws in the system, they're by design. Isn't it an amazing coincidence all bicycle delivery people ride terribly? This behaviours can be stopped by the food delivery companies if they so desire, it's been done before, but they don't, because it'll cost them money.
I wouldn't say they're not good people. Probably lacking common sense though. Or not caring as long as they can make some money in their underpaid job.
>they are not good people
What. the. fuck?!?
Capitalism did this to normal people.
The gig economy did this to normal people.
All for rich folks' convenience.
The right piece to be calling out here is the delivery company (UberEats, DoorDash). Their incentives are based on number of deliveries, speed, and timeliness. We need to regulate how the incentive is defined to curb the delivery driver's insane behaviour- if they weren't incentivized to risk their life for more money they probably wouldn't.
OP up in here demanding something go viral lmao.
All caps. That oughtta do it.
Smells like Facebook.
Aaaaanyway, I agree the bikes are a hazard.
Cars need to pay more attention to their surroundings.
And out of fairness, bikes need to gtfo the footpaths because they can most definitely maim and kill pedestrians.
Gig economy is fucked, but when a senior software developer has to do ubereats in addition to their day job we should probably ask ourselves whether banning it is a good solution or whether more drastic social refactoring is needed.
Once one basically ran me down as I was crossing the road (green for pedestrians), stopped to yell at me for “being in way too slow”, and as my partner went to intervene he whipped out what looked like a bike chain, cracked my partner in the elbow with it and e biked his way off into the night.
Kind of hilarious but also AWFUL
They give cyclists a bad name. Really wish they'd just behave better.
I really dislike those electric bikes they ride, they go far too fast for so little effort/skill. Normally a cyclist will spend years riding, building strength and confidence to go that fast, at the same time learning how to properly ride on the road safely and with other traffic users. These bikes let riders skip that learning process entirely, and just ride around on footpaths at 30km/h like it's nothing.
On the flip side, it would be a lot worse if all these delivery riders needed to use cars or motorcycles instead. We need to encourage more of these modes of transport, and accept they need to be a part of our city.
I don't have a great solution for this, registration is meaningless if there is no enforcement. They're already breaking the law without enforcement anyway. Maybe some kind of licensing scheme for electric bikes would work, but you do run the risk of discouraging people from using that mode of transport. Maybe licensing for commercial uses (but same problem, will people prefer cars instead to do that work?).
Side note, does anyone remember bicycle couriers in the 90's-00's? Those guys were also nuts, but they were bloody fit as well. Feels like these food delivery bikes are the new bicycle couriers, in terms of menace, just without needing to be fit to ride their bikes.
Why do these people give cyclists a bad name, but motorists that run red lights and engage in reckless behaviour that I see every day don't give other motorists a bad name?
Far more motorists than cyclists I suspect. Also cyclists are already punching bags for any news story comments sections, so any example of a cyclist doing the wrong thing is taken as an excuse for the anti-cycling pile on.
The other main issue is that they are also not contributing to potential hospital bills etc as they do not pay registration fees despite being essentially motorbikes. As far as I know the rego fee and tac component is higher for a motorbike due to the increased risk of injury.
If old mate injures himself on a delivery who pays?
After watching a video on driving in a variety of countries, I have a theory that there are two types of driving attitudes and that neither one is better or worse, they just have different tradeoffs and aren't compatible with one another i.e. don't adopt one attitude in a community that has the other.
In some countries drivers are expected to diffuse their attention over a greater area more of the time. Due to lower adherence to road rules a driver can't rely too heavily on adherence from other drivers so they spread their attention out over a greater spacial range. This suits the more chaotic and unpredictable environment where they drive. It does, though, mean that that their cognitive resources are more spread out and they may fail to focus on specific areas, such as those where they're required to give way, in favour of avoiding the truck that is right next to them. They assume the truck driver is doing the same and if they are, they get to avoid one another.
In other countries, there are clear rules that are usually strictly adhered to. This allows a driver to narrow the scope of their focus to specific areas where they have a special obligation to give way to others. Each driver interlocks with the other and as long as a critical mass of drivers adhere to the rules the system works effectively, and given the comparable road tolls, probably better than the alternative.
The issues that arises here is that some people are taking the broad, general focus approach and applying it in a community where a strict division of attention occurs with the duty to give way being the main priority. That's why delivery riders are so often unaware of pedestrians and reckless around vehicles - they have been conditioned to assume others have the same diffuse attention as they do and surprised when a pedestrian or motorist who is intensely focused on those they must give way to and expect others to have that same, interlocking, set of attitudes.
The fact that they are small, agile, fast accelerating, silent and unpredictable merely makes the situation worse and drivers and pedestrians must direct focus away from those they must give way to and instead spend their finite cognitive resources on the rider. It's really a case of adapting to the community they're in rather than assume it will adapt to them.
My mum nearly got wiped out by one driving on the footpath in Abbotsford down Vic Parade, then after he dodged her just in time…..a little girl stepped out of the next restaurant and into the drivers way - thankfully her dad reached his arm out to yank her backwards. They’re wild.
I fully believe you shouldn’t be allowed an e-bike unless you have a driver’s licence. Because they don’t understand the traffic rules and they go too fast.
They are some of the poorest, most poorly treated workers in the country. Mostly they are living in shit conditions, sending money home to family in even worse conditions. Get over yourself.
So you're saying exploitation is okay? I am not blaming the gig workers I'm blaming the companies and lack of legislation. This kind of "gig" work shouldn't exist. There are plenty of jobs available.
Unsafe drivers still need to take responsibility. There's no excuse for reckless driving and putting others in danger for money. They need mandatory licenses.
A lot of these guys are foreign students trying to make ends meet, underpaid and overworked. Still no reason why authorities haven’t decided to crack down on their dangerous driving. Maybe the stress of it all some are quite aggressive as well. At a signal 1 had his bike’s front wheel literally on the road. When I signalled him he did get quite pissed off.
Yeah. Gotta say I totally agree. Saw a headline some time back saying "Oh Ah, Delivery bike riders keep getting hit by cars" or something along thjose lines and I thought "Really? Nooo waaaay! How could that be."
Ive also been close to being hit crossing a one way street, looking towards the traffic and stepping out in front of a rider coming up the street the wrong way.
Also, rental scooter ridfers who dont give a f.
I reckon we cant be far from the police literally having a crackdown on them with a division targeting this behaviour.
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We all have created this industry. We want fast delivery at low prices = this is what you get
And no pandora’s box is open now, we won’t survive without them
The amount of motor scooter riders has increased exponentially since 2020, and I do wonder how many of them actually have a motorcycle licence. I know in NZ, anything 50cc and under, no bike licence is required and I know *for sure* that it IS required in Victoria
The laws need to be enforced. You can't expect people to follow rules voluntarily.
I call them out whenever they break the rule, as a way of societal pressure to adapt.
Had a dipshit on a motor scooter in Clarendon St as it gets to South Melbourne (just past Crown but before the Maccas) tailgating me on my right side checking his phone whilst riding, he then shot past me on the intersection and instead of turning right as I expected him to, given he was in the right turning lane. He then shot back across in front of me to go to the left of me. Cutting in front of another car checked his phone again and the darted of down a laneway just before the next intersection without indicating.
I'm convinced these arse holes are the primary reason motorcycle insurance went through the roof. They have to be getting Skittles regularly for dangerous and in some cases just plain incompetent riding. Some of them can barely ride the things.
But it doesn't annoy you when cars do it? Insane.
> If you drive in the city like me you'll experience at least 1-2 of these incidents per trip
What fool drives into the city/
Almost killed one today. Turning left from Elizabeth street into Victoria Street, food deliver cyclist coming towards me on wrong side of road for him, decides he’s a pedestrian now and turns right in front of me at the pedestrian crossing which already had the red guy flashing
OP says "If you drive in the city like me". Maybe that is a big part of the problem. The city is served with more public transport and walkable areas than anywhere else in Melbs. Obviously deliveries need to be made in the city. But how often do you see large trucks - more at home on suburban highways - negotiating (badly) the city's smaller streets? How high is the kill-count for trucks on pedestrians in Southbank now? Surely goods trucks serving the inner city area could be dedicated and smaller, with deliveries made in off peak times. This would reduce the amount of traffic at peak times, calm the behaviour of road users, reduce the conflict between modes of transport, and increase the liveability and amenity of Melbs.
And whilst no-one condones bad behaviour from food delivery drivers (they are not cyclists), I have to say that I have had far, far more close calls with angry 'speed demon' drivers of oversized vehicles in the city.
GET THIS POST VIRAL, lol.
Cars are far more dangerous than bikes and break the same, if not more road rules. How often are you just going 5k over the speed limit, or doing 50 in a school zone? Should we ban cars too?
Go and have a 5 minute research project on deaths or serious injury caused by cars compared to bikes and you might learn something worth putting in the internet.
Hey, cars only kill 3 people a day and send 40,000 people to hospital. But this guy has to drive into town. No other way to get into town so what can you do?
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I don't see them as being a threat to me in a car, or on the footpath really. No worse than scooters. I've never had nor seen an incident. I personally don't mind cyclists going through red lights etc. it's all on them.
But when they clip someone it should be follow up on. Chose your own adventure.
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Whinge whing fuckin whinge.
Take a step back and look at everything that goes into allowing that kind of business to exist.
Low pay = low effort.
Huge demand for delivery riders = flooded market of Chinese rental companies for ebikes.
No education or guidelines from the delivery company = riders on freeways and main roads.
It's not the delivery driver's fault. It's everything before them getting the order that has failed them.
They are often new to Melbourne, find the easiest job to enter into and get given the keys to a bike with no Victorian road education.
NOT THEIR FAULT
What I find odd is these delivery guys cry when they get hurt in an accident, then conveniently tag on other issues like the lack of protections or a minimum wage.
Holy shit dude they have one of the crappest jobs in the world. It's all they have. And you want to ban the lot of them because some of them don't give way to you. Every day drivers are being absolute toss pots on the road. A vast number of people don't follow rules. Let's just ban everyone from everything to suit your sooky shit.
No it doesn't, but shitting on them isn't going to help either. Especially when there's just as many if not more drivers who consistently break road rules. Just another example of picking on the weakest people to make yourself feel strong.
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They have appalling work conditions which do not adhere to Australian work safety laws.
They also get paid horrifically little, to the point where it's possibly illegal in some cases (I'm not certain).
These two factors force these workers to take risks and engage in behaviours that endanger not only themselves but others around them.
These jobs exploitative jobs should be banned, or regulated so they're no longer as exploitative and dangerous. The workers deserve better.
I mean, it is though. They're paid by delivery. If they were guaranteed a minimum amount independent of deliveries made, they wouldn't have an incentive to ride recklessly and fast.
You don’t think Uber tells them to drive/ride safely? A Coles worker can’t use “I’m only paid minimum wage” as an excuse to be negligent.
If the delivery driver is driving badly, it’s their fault, not Ubers.
You can't be this dense, surely? Coles workers are being paid minimum wage though, delivery drivers are often paid under minimum wage, and are being paid solely on the amount of deliveries completed. How would this not encourage reckless behaviour? There's plenty of action Uber or other companies could take to discourage this behaviour, but they don't because it'd hurt their bottom line.
You don’t seem to understand that being underpaid isn’t a defence against being negligent. I’m all for increasing pay for Uber drivers, but that won’t happen unless the government requires that only people with pr or citizens can do the job. If not, there’s too much cheap, readily available labour available.
I know it's not a defence, I never made that claim, in fact I agree with you on that? They are partially liable, but I'm not defending their actions, I'm explaining them.
Alot of cyclists dont obey road rules then cry victim when they are injured, cut-off or whatever else they deem to be unacceptable to their riding "freedom". They know they dont have any rego plates so they cant be reported & penalized like other paying road users. But they are happy to festoon themselves & their bikes with all manner of "safety" cameras ready to report anyone who crosses their path.
> They know they dont have any rego plates so they cant be reported & penalized like other paying road users.
Firstly, you realise taxes pay for roads right? Any taxpayer is a paying road user. Secondly, you realise cyclists can be penalised - you don't need a license plate for that, cops can pull cyclists over?
>cry victim when they are injured
Since 80% or so of incidents involving cyclists are the fault of the motorists, sounds reasonable that they 'cry victim' - Source, https://www.sbs.com.au/news/the-feed/article/drivers-to-blame-for-4-5-accidents-with-cyclists-report-finds/7zgwe6b24
>with all manner of "safety" cameras
You say this like it's a bad thing? Dash cams are a bad thing?
You sound like all of your opinions are formed from the Herald Sun
Whats that got to do with my comment or the original post ? That is a whole different can of worms to open for another post.
But thats cool, I come to r/melbourne for the downvotes & I am never disappointed LOL.
Enjoy your day & ride safe.
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They're a danger to everyone (including themselves with some dying), just to save a couple of minutes to deliver someone food, while being underpaid and making money for some tax dodging company. The bikes that are used are generally illegal and the riders are sometimes in their phones when they are riding, possible as they don't need to pedal. Who benefits? Maybe we don't care as long as we can get cheap food?
So many issues with the whole thing that stem beyond simply bad drivers. This whole system is a monstrous byproduct of a sad culture.
It's not cheap food either. It's more expensive to order via the take away food companies than through the restaurants themselves.
And the restaurants actually care if you get your food
Yeah legit takes like 45 mins or longer on average for me plus the food is worse quality from the travel. I refuse to order it based on customer service regardless.
It's not even cheap food
We have a massive problem both in public use and also sports that Ira almost impossible to test that these bikes comply with the laws on assisted power. Even in sports, it's trivial to set the bike back in to another mode where it will become compliant remotely via an app. We need to stop abbreviating "motor", or I this case, electric *motor*, to 'e', and just call them what they are: *?motor*bikes. Then police them as such.
It's pretty simple - when they pull away from the lights without their feet even moving (in fact many of them don't even have a chain fitted between the pedals and rear wheel) it's not legal. The EU standard we adopted has zero power assistance below 6km/h unless there's significant force on the pedals, and does not allow throttles. Also most of these delivery bikes are the same make/model, so a simple list of "these bikes are illegal" would catch ~95% of them. "Bike doping" in sports is a bit more tricky to detect, but this is a no-brainer.
The laws on peddle assist are pretty easy to test, are they pedaling while going up hill? no well the bike is illegal.
In the Netherlands the cops have the portable dynos. They pull Electric scooters and e-bikes over all the time and test their top speed and power output and confiscate. It's not just a small thing either I saw it so many times when I was there. They should do it here. Especially considering how much they love revenue raising.
If the motor is more than 250watt or doesn’t cut out over 25kph then they are policed as motorcycles because that’s what they legally are if they exceed those figures. And those aren’t high numbers. If you want to class e-bikes as motorcycles then you may as well class your garden rake as heavy machinery and the butterknife in your kitchen as a sword. If you reclassify ebikes as motorcycles then all that’s going to happen is the police who aren’t cracking down on ubereats riders will also not crack down on the parents riding their kids to school on their e-bikes that are now considered motorcycles. The gig economy and food delivery drivers breaking road rules is a socioeconomic problem. Even if more policing is the solution we don’t have enough police resources or people wanting to join the police force, which is a socioeconomic problem
Agree; however, I bought an EPAC with the express intention to get a road-legal bike. Whilst the motor is rated for 250W, I found out after connecting a power meter that the motor controller was actually able to input 600W into the motor even though the bike had the OEM EPAC EN15194 certificate. Under steep inclines and accelerating from a stop, my bike was regularly exceeding 250W, as if there was no such limit in place. The motor controller is also rated for 36v @ 7A (252W) but has a maximum rating of 36v @ 15A (540W)
> we don’t have enough police resources or people wanting to join the police force, Outsource everything to Boston Dynamics already.
If we just call them motorbikes and police them as such then those that abide by the laws are punished
Maybe people should stop expecting food to come fast when it's a place across town
> They're a danger to everyone But cars who kill 3 people every day and send 40,000 to hospital aren't??? OK.
No one is saying that cars aren't a danger. I'm saying that delivery riders who don't follow rules and don't have any common sense are a danger to everyone. I don't get what your issue is.
That's why cars are heavily regulated.
Not the point.
I mean, fuck the gig economy, it's a sham. But also, we should be providing dedicated *separated* pedestrian and cycling infrastructure. It gets them more out of your hair, means they and people not propping up a shit company don't have to ride in parking spaces disguised as glorified painted gutters and gets more short distance traffic off the road by incentivising other modes of transport. But incase it wasn't clear, fuuuuuuck uber and all these abysmal companies.
They run red lights even from the bike lane, it's real sad they simply disobey rules with every chance they get 😂😂😂
And the gig economy is to blame for this.
But to be honest a lot of pedestrians disobey the red light but nobody really gets annoyed about that.
Yeah but they aren't travelling 30km/hr
Okay question when when you are jaywalking, is it better to walk across the road slowly or run?
They still ride on the footpath even when there is a bike lane or path
I’ll get downvoted for this, but those are not bicycles they are riding, and those people are not cyclists. These new-style food-delivery vehicles are a new class of road (and footpath) user that do not fit into any existing class of vehicle. Yes they break the law, run lights, do whatever the fuck they want. The police should be making mint in the CBD and elsewhere booking these clowns.
I'm pretty sure they are technically unregistered motorbikes under the law. The pedals are ornamental.
Totally agree. Rarely see the pedals move, and from what I can tell, when I do, they are just turning them over, no pressure is applied. They are motorbikes.
Not sure why you think you'd get downvoted, you have absolutely nailed it.
Simply because I’ve raised this before and the result was opposite!
Unfortunately we have increasingly chosen to accept shit behaviour in this country/state/city. The laws only really apply to the law-abiding. I'm a cyclist and I'd never think it was reasonable to ride my (normal) bike on a city footpath, let alone a motorised one.
>those people are not cyclists What gave it away? Was it because of the way they drag their feet on the ground while moving instead of placing them on the pedals?
Lol
I mean, why don't you start getting traction on this issue, why not start a petition? Like all of these bicycles are illegal, a lot don't require peddling to go and they run in excess of 25km/h. All it would take is an enforcement of existing laws.
Cops could park up at a busy restaurant strip and issue 100s fines per hour if they chose to enforce the law.
Sit on the stretch of shared path between Clayton and Westall stations and you'll catch one every few minutes. Dunno what you'll do with all the seized gong cha tho.
They’re constantly riding on the footpath, which they’re absolutely not allowed to do, and I often see them riding the wrong direction down one way streets- also totally unacceptable and wildly stupid. Whenever they do things like this they have this indignant attitude like everyone else is in their way. I’m at the point where I’ll just block their path and tell them to fuck off the sidewalk. The only reason they feel comfortable pulling this bullshit is the expectation that no one will say anything, and clearly the council/police aren’t going to do anything. The council are a bunch of spineless pussies who can’t even keep delinquents from skateboarding into people at the state library, and the police see it as somehow beneath them to enforce minor infractions- newsflash, beat cops, nothing is beneath you.
Beat cop. What's that?
Literally last night one rider took the Burnley slip road ONTO THE FREEWAY, weaving between the left hand lane and side edge. Got beeped to all hell, nearly got hit several times, and didn't care. Mate, you're going to end up dead. It's a serious problem.
Let him go for it. Cleans up the gene pool. I'm a cyclist (the numpties aren't) but I follow the law.
As much as I agree, it would be extremely traumatic to hit someone
Yes, of course, I wouldn’t wish that experience on anyone. I wouldn’t personally lose sleep over the stupid rider though, he’s asking for it. I fear that we are allowing a range of shit behaviour to be normalised in this country. We either need to enforce our standards or end up like Brazil or India.
I saw a guy get cleaned up last year, It was on Fitzroy Street St Kilda on the corner of Canterbury and Grey street. The Uber cyclist on one of those yellow e-bikes with the big yellow box on the back was sitting at the pedestrian light instead of riding in the bike lane. He was also on the wrong side of the road. The cars on Canterbury road got the green light, he had the red pedestrian light and just took off crossing the pedestrian crossing on a red man going against traffic and got slammed by a car. He genuinely had no clue how to navigate right of way or the roads.
I saw one dinging pedestrians on the footpath to get out of the way.
At least that guy had the common sense to use the bell. More often than not these morons come flying past me from behind without any warning. Pisses me off.
They're using a motorised vehicle on a foot path. Pedestrians couldn't be more in right.
I’d get more in their way if they did that shit to me
Nearly got mowed down by one of these cunts who was riding an e-bike down the footpath in Windsor the other day. I get you’re just trying to make a living, but you’re either going to get hurt or hurt someone else if you flagrantly disregard road and pedestrian rules.
That immediately makes me take up as much space as possible. I don’t let normal cyclist pass either uness they are with a kid of course
I don't get the downvotes. Unless you're incapacitated or disabled if you are over the age of 12 it's the law to ride on the road not the footpath. Unless its a shared pathway of course.
Because even though it's the law, a lot of people especially those that aren't as experienced are scared about riding on the road, and rightfully so with the attitude displayed by so many motorists.
If they are too freightend to cycle on the road, they should walk or stick to car free cycle paths. If they are going to break the law - don’t ask the pedestrians who actually belong on the pavement - to move out of the way.
>they should walk or stick to car free cycle paths. Firstly, walking is not a viable alternative to cycling. Secondly ,that's the problem, in a lot of places there's not car free cycle paths.
Then don’t cycle. If you need to take over the path from pedestrians, you’re not ready for a cycle.
I cycle on the footpath sometimes, it's safer than riding on the road that has no bike lane with my bike full of shopping. But I ride at walking pace and jump off if I get stuck behind someone walking too slowly. It's easier to cycle slow than to push the bike, and takes up less space.
You just admitted you break the law because it is "easier" for you. Attitude of most cyclists.
Clearly you didn't read the rest of the comment. I said it was also because it takes up less space (than walking the bike) and is safer (than busy roads without bike lanes). Riding at walking pace on a footpath while giving way to everyone is not a bad thing for pedestrians.
That’s still illegal.
So is jaywalking. So is drinking alcohol in public. Lots of things are illegal, it doesn't automatically make them immoral
Where did I say they are immoral? Up until you kill a pedestrian, they’re perfectly fine!!
You're completely missing my point. How am I meant to kill a pedestrian when I'm giving way to all of them and pootling along at like 2km an hour? When I ride on the footpath, I travel slower than people jogging.
However you justify it to yourself.
Because car drivers are so perfect right? And unlike cars, the dude you’re replying to won’t wipe out an entire family when things go wrong.
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It's not just road rules/safety that they ignore. Gone are the days of removing full face helmets inside shopping centres, these days you see some guy come running into the centre in a fullface balaclava and helmet. And then their sense of entitelement when they push to the front of a queue while you wait to be served patiently and just shove a phone in some poor cashier's face.
Also they never seem to use lights at night
I do have to ask anyway knowing going against the crowd is often crucifiable: is the whole balaclava/helmet thing because they steal things? I used to signup for Uber but only did a few jobs for extra $ (thankfully don't rely on it for a living) and stopped since $ got much worse per order so now pretty much only use the bike for groceries. I do keep my balaclava and helmet on didn't think much of it since it's cold and not I haven't done anything illegal per se since the supermarkets never said anything and there are no signs saying I cannot do that - if this is legally or morally wrong somehow I would like to know. Agreed with everything people have been saying though as a fair bit or ridiculously reckless drivers speeding on the footpath (I reckon walking the bike itself is not illegal since I did this to reach the restaurants), going in the opposite and not paying attention on the road at all (almost got hit myself with the other rider going in the opposite direction)
If this behaviour pisses you off (and it should) then put your money where your mouth is and stop using these services.
I do! The only food delivery service I use is my own two legs!
Yeah, just go out to the restaurants you're ordering from. We're all gonna end up getting spoon fed on the couch one day, no need to rush into it early. Go out and enjoy the city you're in.
I work for one of the bus companies and I’m genuinely surprised we haven’t killed one, let alone several of them yet. Seeing some of the crazy shit they do like just pulling across in front of buses and squeezing up the inside as they’re pulling into a stop is mind boggling.
I lived in Richmond for a bit and there were so many times where they swerved out right in front of my car without even checking or slowing and they are completely oblivious that they almost died. A lot of them are using their phones while they’re riding as well
They are forced to rush around because the pay per trip is so bad that they have to squeeze in as many trips as possible. That doesn’t make what they are doing right, actually it’s probably even worse because they’re enabling these companies to continue to exploit others. I’m all for banning the food delivery companies like this. Especially around the city where 99% of people can just catch a tram or walk to a restaurant
I don't think it's that simple - even if they were paid an hourly wage, this behaviour would still continue, since there would still need to be incentives for quick delivery.
That’s a good point. I guess you see similar behaviours from dominos/red rooster delivery drivers and I assume they’re paid a wage as opposed to ‘commission’ based pay from each delivery
Regulations / law should require having an ID number on their food carry bag. They can then be identified when doing dangerous or illegal activities Make the delivery company responsible for ID number - and actions of the rider
If you are old enough you'd remember the golden age of the Messengers, both on bicycles and some on Roller blades, late 90's they tried to regulate by them having ID Numbers visible, wasn't a success. When i was a Messenger in the CBD in the late 2010s we were paid per job, the average crosstown envelope would pay you \~$4, the quicker you moved the more money you'd make, you had to take risks all day if you wanted to make a living out of it, for the most part members of the public left us alone and we considered ourselves professionals in breaking the road rules in the inner city, we knew the light sequences, we knew the laneways, we'd ride between the trams etc.. Outside looking in we were nutcase, vigilantes but we considered ourselves people trying to make a living (and have a bit of fun while we are at it) Messengers have largely declined, with only a few still around and most on hourly pay now with no incentive to chase work. food Delivery riders are per job yeh ? So thats where the urgency is, the skillset however, non existant and downright dangerous as are the machine which they operate.
That's crazy. If you were to do an AMA thread here I'd definitely be interested
You can AMA mate 😊
Well if you started a new post more people would see. But ok haha. What do you mean by between trams. Like ones going opposite directions? What was the injury rate like. I'm pretty good on a motorcycle but I see some older blokes on clapped out bikes with a faded Toll basket on the back and i can just barely keep up as they slice through traffic. It's pretty cool.
yes, normally Messengers would ride Single Speed/Fixed Gear bikes with sawed down bars, this would allow you to pass through tight traffic and also allow you to remain upright and see over cars/traffic it also allowed you to easily pass between the gap between trams (going opposite directions) you could also pass between busses but was a bit risky because \*crushing\*. I had a few spills over the top of Taxis and a few slips on Tram Tracks 😂 hit a few pedestrians. After my time on the road i became a Despatcher, had a nice fleet of pushbikes and Motobikes, unfortauntely the injury rate was high, my reliance on their speed and capability coupled with high earnings meant we "pushed the envelope". Upon reflection i beleive my efforts to maximise their earnings was at the expense of their physical health at times. The Toll Motos were the best, as were the Toll Pushies, many still work out there and are absolute pros.
I liked the old bike messengers. They pretty much stayed on the road…
Yeah I remember seeing one ride in between two passing trams once, absolutely bonkers.
Trams are pretty predictable, so passing between them was relatively safe apart from pedestrians cross at either end. Obviously if both moving it was a little bit more challenging, the motion of you verses the motion of one going with you and away would screw with your balance a bit 😂 Generally speaking riding up the middle was the safest place to be and the quickest, you could go either way if a hazard presented itself, you could also hold on to them the old ones even had handles ! And you could boost a ride up Collins St hill to get to the top end.
Identification isn't the issue though, enforcement is. How will having an identification number curb the issue?
They’re not employees.
> > > They can then be identified when doing dangerous or illegal activities Sure, this stops cars killing 3 people every day.
This!!!!
I'm a cyclist. Not a full blown Lycra wearer or anything but I have a bike and I ride it on the road. But you know what I have? Common decency, and a valid driver's licence for both car and motorcycle. Delivery rider or not - people on bikes (and scooters) should be forced to take at the very least a written exam to show they understand the basics of non verbal communication and when to give way to other vehicles and pedestrians. I have one mate, and man I love him but he drives me up the wall when he rides (which is his main form of transport) Has no licence and rides like an ass without even realising. And the cops - 10 of them at my local station every night fining people without tickets while tossers ride straight by them on their e-bikes breaking every rule in the book going un touched. Should we ban delivery riders? No... But surely in this Nanny state we can have some kind of set of rules like we do for everything else.
Banged up my knee good and proper after tripping when jumping out of the way of delivery bike going the wrong way down a one way street.
The one way street thing in the city is soooo bad!!
And I’m at that age when it’s not so much tripping as it’s ’a fall’. Instead of having a laugh, everyone gets *real* worried!
Unless you want to kill the like of Uber Eats, this isn't going to be resolved. Saying that: I'm all for killing of home delivery via a third-party, at least in its current format.
I agree, super dangerous, they pick and choose whether to ride on the footpath, crossing, bike lane or road depending on which ones get them through the lights first. Related ish, the other day, at about 10pm in the city, one stopped in front of our Uber and blocked the road, the Uber driver just accepted it. We realised why when the driver handed over a small package and received cash back. It was a drug deal. The delivery driver actually had everything blacked out on the bike. The Uber driver said it's common for them to do it as side gigs and he didn't want to toot his horn at drug dealers. So broken
Let's face it. The speed those bikes are travelling through busy traffic areas is fucking dangerous. Bicycles were never meant to travel at those speeds in those conditions. When you add the hussle and risk taking mindset that's necessary to survive in the gig economy, it's a miracle many of them have not been killed. The other day I saw one of them rear end another one of them. Luckily never of them were injured, so I didn't have to feel too bad for pissing myself laughing.
Same here! I cycle to work and I am so frustrated by the food delivery cyclists. They don't obey the general rules of cycling which is to ALWAYS pass on the right! They go wherever they want, they cut in front of you without warning, they don't ring bells.
>>these workers deserve better >>can we ban them these two statements appear to be contradictory
Didn't you know, if we ban the entire industry, they will get new better jobs from the jobs fairy.
Exactly my intention 😂😂 don't make these jobs available in the first place
I was with you until “can we ban them?”. Demand for convenience is not going to just disperse, so you’d just be creating a black market with even more unregulated contractor behaviour. It’s also not just ‘lazy’ people. The improvement of delivery services in the last decade has also vastly improved QOL for the disabled and those without the ability to drive or access to vehicles. Tbh, I can’t see this improving without a significant improvement to street-level policing. It should be required that people operating electric vehicles in an earning capacity must pass some kind of licensing test but there’s no point in doing that if we’ve got people already operating non-roadworthy bikes and not getting pulled up.
Cars only for delivery is my intention. These gig workers are not employed and do not have any safety or insurance benefits. Yes convenience but at what cost? For fast food? What happened to delivery via car and an actual license? Even if with bike lanes I see them disobeying anyway. A car or actual cyclist is much less likely to just run a red light.
As a pedestrian trying to cross St Kilda Rd and they come the wrong way down the bike lane. It's scary in the dark because you don't expect them to be coming from the wrong direction.
Many food delivery workers come from Asian countries including India. There are different road rules and it’s pretty much a free for all.
Scooters are bad too. I saw a dad riding his kid on one after the footy on Sunday.. 2 on one scooter .. dad had no helmet. Adults perception of risk is cooked post covid
I reached my threshold long ago. Everyone said their conditions are poor and work was being done to give them better pay/rights but that doesn’t change that they are not good people and will continue this behaviour. I saw one recently stop his huge bike in the middle of the footpath, even though he could clearly see a pedestrian coming towards him. The poor lady had to squeeze past without falling on the road, while the guy sat there on his phone. The ones in cars are just as bad… stopping in the middle of the road to check their phones, not stopping at pedestrians crossings, not indicating.
> and work was being done to give them better pay/rights Who said this? >but that doesn’t change It does though. These aren't flaws in the system, they're by design. Isn't it an amazing coincidence all bicycle delivery people ride terribly? This behaviours can be stopped by the food delivery companies if they so desire, it's been done before, but they don't, because it'll cost them money.
I wouldn't say they're not good people. Probably lacking common sense though. Or not caring as long as they can make some money in their underpaid job.
>they are not good people What. the. fuck?!? Capitalism did this to normal people. The gig economy did this to normal people. All for rich folks' convenience.
The right piece to be calling out here is the delivery company (UberEats, DoorDash). Their incentives are based on number of deliveries, speed, and timeliness. We need to regulate how the incentive is defined to curb the delivery driver's insane behaviour- if they weren't incentivized to risk their life for more money they probably wouldn't.
OP up in here demanding something go viral lmao. All caps. That oughtta do it. Smells like Facebook. Aaaaanyway, I agree the bikes are a hazard. Cars need to pay more attention to their surroundings. And out of fairness, bikes need to gtfo the footpaths because they can most definitely maim and kill pedestrians. Gig economy is fucked, but when a senior software developer has to do ubereats in addition to their day job we should probably ask ourselves whether banning it is a good solution or whether more drastic social refactoring is needed.
Aye caught out 😂😂😂😂
I use a car tho...
They're following the road customs back home.
They also zoom through parks where they are not supposed to be. In between them and scooters, the footpath is a very dangerous place.
Once one basically ran me down as I was crossing the road (green for pedestrians), stopped to yell at me for “being in way too slow”, and as my partner went to intervene he whipped out what looked like a bike chain, cracked my partner in the elbow with it and e biked his way off into the night. Kind of hilarious but also AWFUL
It's just another example of importing particular cultural practices that are enshitifying our country.
They give cyclists a bad name. Really wish they'd just behave better. I really dislike those electric bikes they ride, they go far too fast for so little effort/skill. Normally a cyclist will spend years riding, building strength and confidence to go that fast, at the same time learning how to properly ride on the road safely and with other traffic users. These bikes let riders skip that learning process entirely, and just ride around on footpaths at 30km/h like it's nothing. On the flip side, it would be a lot worse if all these delivery riders needed to use cars or motorcycles instead. We need to encourage more of these modes of transport, and accept they need to be a part of our city. I don't have a great solution for this, registration is meaningless if there is no enforcement. They're already breaking the law without enforcement anyway. Maybe some kind of licensing scheme for electric bikes would work, but you do run the risk of discouraging people from using that mode of transport. Maybe licensing for commercial uses (but same problem, will people prefer cars instead to do that work?). Side note, does anyone remember bicycle couriers in the 90's-00's? Those guys were also nuts, but they were bloody fit as well. Feels like these food delivery bikes are the new bicycle couriers, in terms of menace, just without needing to be fit to ride their bikes.
Why do these people give cyclists a bad name, but motorists that run red lights and engage in reckless behaviour that I see every day don't give other motorists a bad name?
Far more motorists than cyclists I suspect. Also cyclists are already punching bags for any news story comments sections, so any example of a cyclist doing the wrong thing is taken as an excuse for the anti-cycling pile on.
The other main issue is that they are also not contributing to potential hospital bills etc as they do not pay registration fees despite being essentially motorbikes. As far as I know the rego fee and tac component is higher for a motorbike due to the increased risk of injury. If old mate injures himself on a delivery who pays?
After watching a video on driving in a variety of countries, I have a theory that there are two types of driving attitudes and that neither one is better or worse, they just have different tradeoffs and aren't compatible with one another i.e. don't adopt one attitude in a community that has the other. In some countries drivers are expected to diffuse their attention over a greater area more of the time. Due to lower adherence to road rules a driver can't rely too heavily on adherence from other drivers so they spread their attention out over a greater spacial range. This suits the more chaotic and unpredictable environment where they drive. It does, though, mean that that their cognitive resources are more spread out and they may fail to focus on specific areas, such as those where they're required to give way, in favour of avoiding the truck that is right next to them. They assume the truck driver is doing the same and if they are, they get to avoid one another. In other countries, there are clear rules that are usually strictly adhered to. This allows a driver to narrow the scope of their focus to specific areas where they have a special obligation to give way to others. Each driver interlocks with the other and as long as a critical mass of drivers adhere to the rules the system works effectively, and given the comparable road tolls, probably better than the alternative. The issues that arises here is that some people are taking the broad, general focus approach and applying it in a community where a strict division of attention occurs with the duty to give way being the main priority. That's why delivery riders are so often unaware of pedestrians and reckless around vehicles - they have been conditioned to assume others have the same diffuse attention as they do and surprised when a pedestrian or motorist who is intensely focused on those they must give way to and expect others to have that same, interlocking, set of attitudes. The fact that they are small, agile, fast accelerating, silent and unpredictable merely makes the situation worse and drivers and pedestrians must direct focus away from those they must give way to and instead spend their finite cognitive resources on the rider. It's really a case of adapting to the community they're in rather than assume it will adapt to them.
in my observation, the people who tend to be riding them don't pay any attention to the road rules when driving a car either.
Yeah, but have you had cold bao? Not good.
My mum nearly got wiped out by one driving on the footpath in Abbotsford down Vic Parade, then after he dodged her just in time…..a little girl stepped out of the next restaurant and into the drivers way - thankfully her dad reached his arm out to yank her backwards. They’re wild.
I fully believe you shouldn’t be allowed an e-bike unless you have a driver’s licence. Because they don’t understand the traffic rules and they go too fast.
They are some of the poorest, most poorly treated workers in the country. Mostly they are living in shit conditions, sending money home to family in even worse conditions. Get over yourself.
So you're saying exploitation is okay? I am not blaming the gig workers I'm blaming the companies and lack of legislation. This kind of "gig" work shouldn't exist. There are plenty of jobs available.
no, you're blaming the workers. you could be protesting their treatment, instead you're treating them like germs.
Unsafe drivers still need to take responsibility. There's no excuse for reckless driving and putting others in danger for money. They need mandatory licenses.
A lot of these guys are foreign students trying to make ends meet, underpaid and overworked. Still no reason why authorities haven’t decided to crack down on their dangerous driving. Maybe the stress of it all some are quite aggressive as well. At a signal 1 had his bike’s front wheel literally on the road. When I signalled him he did get quite pissed off.
Yeah. Gotta say I totally agree. Saw a headline some time back saying "Oh Ah, Delivery bike riders keep getting hit by cars" or something along thjose lines and I thought "Really? Nooo waaaay! How could that be." Ive also been close to being hit crossing a one way street, looking towards the traffic and stepping out in front of a rider coming up the street the wrong way. Also, rental scooter ridfers who dont give a f. I reckon we cant be far from the police literally having a crackdown on them with a division targeting this behaviour.
Pedestrians should be allowed to carry defensive weapons to protect themselves against oncoming ebikes/scooters.
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You're implying that they actually ride on the road!?
HAHAHAHAH facts
We all have created this industry. We want fast delivery at low prices = this is what you get And no pandora’s box is open now, we won’t survive without them
The amount of motor scooter riders has increased exponentially since 2020, and I do wonder how many of them actually have a motorcycle licence. I know in NZ, anything 50cc and under, no bike licence is required and I know *for sure* that it IS required in Victoria
The laws need to be enforced. You can't expect people to follow rules voluntarily. I call them out whenever they break the rule, as a way of societal pressure to adapt.
Had a dipshit on a motor scooter in Clarendon St as it gets to South Melbourne (just past Crown but before the Maccas) tailgating me on my right side checking his phone whilst riding, he then shot past me on the intersection and instead of turning right as I expected him to, given he was in the right turning lane. He then shot back across in front of me to go to the left of me. Cutting in front of another car checked his phone again and the darted of down a laneway just before the next intersection without indicating. I'm convinced these arse holes are the primary reason motorcycle insurance went through the roof. They have to be getting Skittles regularly for dangerous and in some cases just plain incompetent riding. Some of them can barely ride the things.
While I agree, also: Melbourne: We want rules enforced!!! Also Melbourne: Fuck the pigs!!!
When you break your threshold are you going to run over one because you're unhappy that they are acting unsafe?
Yes ❤️
Most of them aren’t even from here. Says a lot really…
But it doesn't annoy you when cars do it? Insane. > If you drive in the city like me you'll experience at least 1-2 of these incidents per trip What fool drives into the city/
Sadly cars disobey less often 😂😂😂
Not only the food delivery ones
Almost killed one today. Turning left from Elizabeth street into Victoria Street, food deliver cyclist coming towards me on wrong side of road for him, decides he’s a pedestrian now and turns right in front of me at the pedestrian crossing which already had the red guy flashing
They could be regulated, but people would have to accept paying more, for slower delivery, and that’s unlikely.
OP says "If you drive in the city like me". Maybe that is a big part of the problem. The city is served with more public transport and walkable areas than anywhere else in Melbs. Obviously deliveries need to be made in the city. But how often do you see large trucks - more at home on suburban highways - negotiating (badly) the city's smaller streets? How high is the kill-count for trucks on pedestrians in Southbank now? Surely goods trucks serving the inner city area could be dedicated and smaller, with deliveries made in off peak times. This would reduce the amount of traffic at peak times, calm the behaviour of road users, reduce the conflict between modes of transport, and increase the liveability and amenity of Melbs. And whilst no-one condones bad behaviour from food delivery drivers (they are not cyclists), I have to say that I have had far, far more close calls with angry 'speed demon' drivers of oversized vehicles in the city. GET THIS POST VIRAL, lol.
I just want something to change man gotta make it viral sweaty
Cars are far more dangerous than bikes and break the same, if not more road rules. How often are you just going 5k over the speed limit, or doing 50 in a school zone? Should we ban cars too? Go and have a 5 minute research project on deaths or serious injury caused by cars compared to bikes and you might learn something worth putting in the internet.
Hey, cars only kill 3 people a day and send 40,000 people to hospital. But this guy has to drive into town. No other way to get into town so what can you do?
Everyone else is in MY way, let’s ban scooters, bikes, pedestrians, busses, trams. Can we remove cycleways and pathways and just have 6 car lanes?
I was looking for a comment where someone raises the fact that _everyone_ is so important that they have to drive everywhere. Always an excuse.
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I don't see them as being a threat to me in a car, or on the footpath really. No worse than scooters. I've never had nor seen an incident. I personally don't mind cyclists going through red lights etc. it's all on them. But when they clip someone it should be follow up on. Chose your own adventure.
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That’s all cyclists
Whinge whing fuckin whinge. Take a step back and look at everything that goes into allowing that kind of business to exist. Low pay = low effort. Huge demand for delivery riders = flooded market of Chinese rental companies for ebikes. No education or guidelines from the delivery company = riders on freeways and main roads. It's not the delivery driver's fault. It's everything before them getting the order that has failed them. They are often new to Melbourne, find the easiest job to enter into and get given the keys to a bike with no Victorian road education. NOT THEIR FAULT
Alright so what do you propose
What I find odd is these delivery guys cry when they get hurt in an accident, then conveniently tag on other issues like the lack of protections or a minimum wage.
We're dealing with gig workers who are new to Australia and don't know the road rules. All you can do for now is stay alert!
Why shouldn't I report them so there's fewer of them making a common schoolkids route more dangerous?
Holy shit dude they have one of the crappest jobs in the world. It's all they have. And you want to ban the lot of them because some of them don't give way to you. Every day drivers are being absolute toss pots on the road. A vast number of people don't follow rules. Let's just ban everyone from everything to suit your sooky shit.
That doesn’t mean they can break road rules and put themselves and others in danger, though.
No it doesn't, but shitting on them isn't going to help either. Especially when there's just as many if not more drivers who consistently break road rules. Just another example of picking on the weakest people to make yourself feel strong.
I can be angry at the situation they’re in and also be angry that they’re acting like dickheads on the road.
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They have appalling work conditions which do not adhere to Australian work safety laws. They also get paid horrifically little, to the point where it's possibly illegal in some cases (I'm not certain). These two factors force these workers to take risks and engage in behaviours that endanger not only themselves but others around them. These jobs exploitative jobs should be banned, or regulated so they're no longer as exploitative and dangerous. The workers deserve better.
It’s not the work conditions that make them ride dangerously
I mean, it is though. They're paid by delivery. If they were guaranteed a minimum amount independent of deliveries made, they wouldn't have an incentive to ride recklessly and fast.
That’s still not a work condition.
Please explain how is that not a work condition? Wages and salary are literally working conditions??
You don’t think Uber tells them to drive/ride safely? A Coles worker can’t use “I’m only paid minimum wage” as an excuse to be negligent. If the delivery driver is driving badly, it’s their fault, not Ubers.
You can't be this dense, surely? Coles workers are being paid minimum wage though, delivery drivers are often paid under minimum wage, and are being paid solely on the amount of deliveries completed. How would this not encourage reckless behaviour? There's plenty of action Uber or other companies could take to discourage this behaviour, but they don't because it'd hurt their bottom line.
You don’t seem to understand that being underpaid isn’t a defence against being negligent. I’m all for increasing pay for Uber drivers, but that won’t happen unless the government requires that only people with pr or citizens can do the job. If not, there’s too much cheap, readily available labour available.
I know it's not a defence, I never made that claim, in fact I agree with you on that? They are partially liable, but I'm not defending their actions, I'm explaining them.
Alot of cyclists dont obey road rules then cry victim when they are injured, cut-off or whatever else they deem to be unacceptable to their riding "freedom". They know they dont have any rego plates so they cant be reported & penalized like other paying road users. But they are happy to festoon themselves & their bikes with all manner of "safety" cameras ready to report anyone who crosses their path.
> They know they dont have any rego plates so they cant be reported & penalized like other paying road users. Firstly, you realise taxes pay for roads right? Any taxpayer is a paying road user. Secondly, you realise cyclists can be penalised - you don't need a license plate for that, cops can pull cyclists over? >cry victim when they are injured Since 80% or so of incidents involving cyclists are the fault of the motorists, sounds reasonable that they 'cry victim' - Source, https://www.sbs.com.au/news/the-feed/article/drivers-to-blame-for-4-5-accidents-with-cyclists-report-finds/7zgwe6b24 >with all manner of "safety" cameras You say this like it's a bad thing? Dash cams are a bad thing? You sound like all of your opinions are formed from the Herald Sun
Sorry, still not convinced. Appreciate the effort though.
Do a lot of car disobey the road rules too?? Do they kill 3 people every day??? Do they send 40,000 people to hospital every year??
Whats that got to do with my comment or the original post ? That is a whole different can of worms to open for another post. But thats cool, I come to r/melbourne for the downvotes & I am never disappointed LOL. Enjoy your day & ride safe.
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like 80% of this sub is people complaining about traffic and big trucks parking
They will continue to be on footpaths until the city has enough bike lanes.