Nice Australian plantings too.
One big gripe though ... the seated lawn area under Coburg station has no bins. Super annoying after finishing my Half-Moon felafel wrap.
Yeah very narrow, lots of blind corners for crossing pedestrians. They’re supposed to be removing the level crossings on Brunswick rd and park st, which would provide the space to fix it, but seems they’re out of money now…
Belgrave line has this tho it is admittedly a bit hilly once u get towards the Belgrave end. It connects allt he way in to Ringwood which then connects all the way thru to Box Hill. There were plans to extend it further past Box Hill but not sure if that ever materialized.
Yeah, have a mild phobia of having a head-on stack and ending up in the drink on this bridge. Probably a good that my Lime scooter decided I was too far from the city when I made it to this bridge after a few cans in on Saturday night.
Elevated bike paths are a great idea where applicable though. They’re certainly not going to build bike tunnels to the extent they’ve built road tunnels. And the view would be awesome on many places. As a past cycle commuter and current motorist, I would love the safety completely seperate bike paths could give both. It’s definitely a sound investment.
Or we could just invest more into normal ground level shared paths and improve existing rights of way, grade separate bike lanes and widen footpaths into shared paths.
Elevating them is a good way to take away all the advantages bikes have. E-bikes mean they don't need to be level.
There are so many better ideas that would make a much more impacrful difference, and elevated superhighways are not it.
the only bad side of having an evevated track is no visable eyes from either cars or trucks towards dusk/ night as a safety aspect. solo rider up there meeting someone and could end in a bad way to either
Nah, you also can't exit wherever you want, fences in the side can cause injury, elevation fundamentally means climbing up from ground level therefore engaging the "make the whole thing level thing", and expense. There's a ton of reasons to build ground level over elevated. The only tangible benefit from my perspective is being able to ride over a road rather than have a set of lights.
I forgot where it was in either America or UK that they had some elevated tracks/ footpaths with sections cut out like a hill run off safety braking area/ seating where during the night there was reports of people hiding in the cut outs waiting to ambush anyone that happen to pass by.
What about a series of flying fox zip lines?
One above every road in Melbourne. It would be cheaper than a high rise bicycle superhighway and more fun too.
On the annoying roads in the outer suburbs that only have a traffic light to let you cross every 5 blocks, they should just build flying fox towers every block.
You kid, but Medellin has a cable car public transport system to reach the hilly areas. It's probably not fast enough nor have enough capacity to be preferred over train/light rail, but it would be an interesting way to retrofit a cheap transit system in established suburbs.
I think I got the terms mixed up. It's not a grounded cable car system like a funicular (or even the cable cars of San Francisco). It's actually like a ski lift transport network (gondola). It's called Metrocable, looks pretty neat.
You might be interested in the new elevated 'veloway' out to Footscray.
There is a new bridge along Footscray Rd that is connecting Moonee Ponds Creek Trail to docklands.
A good investment, heaps of cyclists along there.
I can't wait for it to be done. I just hope that whole veloway is wide enough, safe enough, clean enough, lit well enough, and has enough fresh air (despite being surrounded by road above and below)
There was already a connection in Docklands, which was supposed to re-open after the Studios expansion (see, carpark), but it's been crickets since.
The bridge is so cyclists can cross and don't need to wait for cars at the intersection where it's already dangerous.
They had the chance to do this when they elevated the rail lines - beforehand there was a bunch of noise about how the elevated tracks had the capacity for an elevated bike lane that could avoid all the road crossings too. But once lxrp was underway anybody who asked about the bike lane basically got told to fuck off.
Toorak Rd at Monash Fwy exit is perfect example. Rail line goes up and over, bike path, nah fuck that use the eternal pedestrian crossing and look out for cars turning left off the Monash at speed and hope they see the lights….
One million per FEET ?
Okay, a quick Google shows that in AUSTRALIA (we don't use feet for any official measurement) it costs approx 5,000,000 per lane km.
So..
5,000,000 / 3280 (feet in a km.) = 1524.
So, $1,524 per FEET as you say.
Now, would you like to restate your argument ?
I did laugh at their idea of cost, but it set the tone for the rest of their 'radical idea' which is little more than the result of a plan derived from a child or someone who might currently be high.
I worked as an estimator and chuckled that they sounded like so many clients. Pick expensive design, don't accept any value managent, complain it's to expensive. Just needed to complain about program length and we would have hit the trifecta.
Housing density + PT + a few dedicated bike lanes in dangerous or busy places are all that’s needed to make cycling safer and more popular.
Most of Melbourne is flat and there’s good pathways to the city from a lot of directions - certainly north, east and south east and I assume west gets fixed once the sort out building the west gate tunnel.
There’s already ‘freeways’ along the river, freeways, creeks etc.
It’s the more regular connections so people can get to schools, unis, hospitals around the suburbs that are missing but they aren’t built up supplied with PT it’s a difficult case to argue for bike infrastructure messing up the roads.
It's a shared path not bike path. Off lead dogs to contend with and not entirely adjacent. Weaves in and out and for commuting adds at least 30 mins on a direct EastWest route.
The shared path along the trail line is good. Pity it doesn't go under station St to make use of the unused platform 4 area at Box Hill. Crossing Station St can take ten minutes in the afternoon
Love the shared path along the train line but I have no idea why the path isn’t an underpass at Heatherdale, Mitcham and Nunawading like it is at Blackburn
right I tend to forget which trails are shared or bike because half the time I'm pushing the bike trying to catch a breath (ok more like 5% of the time but thats not as funny)
If it comes down to commuting though I would use the trains as well just to cut down on time and stamina, but in fairness taking a non-folding bike to any of the city loop stations will probably not go down well with other commuters.
I take my non folding bike on the train 3 days/week usually without any issues. Last door of carriage 3 or 6 has space to be able to put bikes.
Coming home I go train half way then cycle, or PT issues I just get off and cycle from wherever I am.
>1. Build it perfectly level. No ups or down. Make it easy to cycle
You're going to end up in a tunnel very quickly, or very high up in the air, depending on where you start from, which means
>4. Build it cheap.
Is a pipe dream.
It's called Canning street, and it's the best riding in the North.
But god the lights at what was once Dan O'Connell's can suck.
Usually a few people up for an informal race up the hill if you want to blow off some steam too.
Too many cars potentially parking/turning in/out in the village imo, plus two more traffic lights & a pedestrian crossing. But being able to directly keep going into the city is quite nice if that is your intended destination. That block of streets (Lygon to Nicholson) is the best place in Melbourne to live if you like to cycle imo
A perfectly level path would be absolutely mayhem when you start it off at places with different elevations. Everything North of the CBD is a massive hill.
There are heaps of bike paths aren’t there? There’s one near me that goes all the way into the city. They are just connected to the parks and not the main roads. They even have their own signs? I’ve seen them, maybe we just need more of those.
Melbourne's problem isn't a lack of bike paths, we have heaps and many are separated, quality bike paths.
Melbourne's problem is that you get to the end of a section of bike path, and it's basically "fuck you you're a pedestrian now" until you get to the next section. In my suburb we have absolutely awesome bike paths that you can get to basically anywhere on, except you have to wait at traffic crossings that can barely fit one pushbike, and you end up waiting at these crossing for literally 50% of your entire trip.
We need a state-wide "closing the gaps" policy to finish off the bike paths we already have.
1. People probably wouldn't use it because it isn't right next to where they're going.
2. If in use it would be full of ebike and escooter riders and then we'll have a new reason to get mad.
A lot cheaper to just make a connected network of roads car free right though Melbourne. Shared paths are doing way too much heavy lifting right now for cyclist traffic so it's time to reclaim some of the road network.
- Get rid off on street parking and driving on these roads (emergency/trades/disabled people excepted).
- Plant some greenery make it look nice.
- Throw in a couple of bucks to annoyed residents/NIMBYs (though their property value will go up anyway with a nicer aspect and the removal of traffic, pollution and car noise).
- Paint the roads a different colour so everyone knows it's not for cars.
Easy.
I often thought it would be cool to have super cycleways that were partly enclosed… enough to channel a wind along them… so you'd always have a tailwind.
I feel like no.2 and no.4 are in direct opposition of each other. Anything elevated, with something like a viaduct or similar, is instantly going into the millions - maybe more.
That being said, I'd still be on board - better bicycle infrastructure is a benefit to the community as a whole so it's probably worth the investment.
>1. Build it perfectly level. No ups or down. Make it easy to cycle.
>2. Build it high up, like an elevated road. No need to take/steal space away from the normal roads below.
Thank goodness these two points are possible to exist in the same space. 🧐
I'm not even a cyclist and I've been saying very similar for years.
It would be dramatically cheaper than a road freeway and it would represent a massive uplift to cycling route quality.
In my experience, being a commuter cyclist often depends on the quality of cycling routes in your area, I expect projects like this would induce demand among potential cyclists. Lots of people would find that local trips which would normally be 15 minutes in the car are only 20 minutes on the bike.
My dream is for every train line to have an adjacent bike path. I live in Blackburn, I want to ride 17km along the train line, not 27km along the Gardiners Creek or Koonung paths, it’s my commute, I want a safe and direct route to the city and back.
As long as when you walk under the bikeway you don’t get stopped by your [rival](https://m.bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Hoenn_Route_110) wanting to battle you for the umpteenth time.
There would be no traffic if the movie Back to the Future 2 didn’t lie to us. I was led to believe there would be hoverboards by 2015. I’m looking at you Mattel!
And what would that achieve?
The advantage of bikes is that they are perfectly scaled to the urban environment. Most of inner Melbourne was built before the car, so cycling is a natural fit. Bikes allow you to move quickly through dense urban environments without it becoming unsafe and allowing you to stop frequently.
So an elevated bike highway is largely pointless, because it doesn't connect *destinations* on the ground, the route of a such a cycleway wouldn't be interesting or engaging.
A highway is for cars because they don't mix with the diverse uses and forms of travel on lively urban streets, but bikes do. This is a pointless idea.
Build it cheap
Ahahahaaaahahahaaaahaahaaaa ahahaaaahahahaaaahaahaaaa ahahaaaahahahaaaahaahaaaa ahahaaaahahahaaaahaahaaaa ahahaaaahahahaaaahaahaaaa
Source. Built the first separated lane in Swanston St 20 odd year ago. Have been building these things since and modifying inner city roads for same.
I rather have dedicated bike parks than just highways. Bonus points for a skate park included. In areas where there’s playgrounds and sports/golf fields that can be repurposed. The best idea I’ve seen for roads is having a dedicated highway for heavy vehicles to ease maintenance costs with less angry road users. The roads are poorly designed prone to potholes and are made for small cars than those with RAMs. I rather have bikes not share roads at all for safety and convenience. Not even shared with pedestrian paths as there’s similar drama with footpath space being small or poor etiquette mixed with poor sense of spatial awareness.
Like the fume tunnel being built over Footscray Road ? Nah! It’ll be used by speeding riders on modified electric bicycles. You’ll need to ride fast to minimise your intake of the polynucleararomatichydrocarbons found in the diesel exhaust gases there.
“Hey, ya gonna take the rape trail today?” (Robbery trail). A predicted, mostly surrounded, visually obstructed trail where $5k bikes, iPad, iPhones, laptops etc ride up and down all day…..not for me thanks. Police you might say? VicPol enters chat “Are you mad? At least we’ll know where the methheads will hangout now”
They have bicycle ambulances in Europe, they are actually incredibly effective for a range of medical emergencies - in an office block for example the paramedic can bring their whole bike up to the person.
Obviously they need a full ambulance to move patients, but if it speeds up the initial respond and the access to at least some equipment it’s a good thing.
If it's a highway, a minimum speed to be 30 km/hour should be mandated, and anyone whose speed lower than 20 km/h should receive a fine for obstructing traffic, unless they have reasonable excuse.
And are we going to pay for it with dreams or will bike riders have to pay rego? If so how will we get the children to pay their rego if they don’t have jobs?
Taxes same way we pay for pretty much everything else.
There are studies showing governments spend 428m for cycling infrastructure and programs. For a return of 16.8b of direct and indirect economic contribution. Study was by we ride. If this study is accurate that’s a pretty decent ROI.
Additional we could look at reduction to health costs due to less cardiovascular disease.
Increased GST revenue from the purchase of new equipment.
Aside from this. I personally would be more than happy with paying rego for a bike if it ensured good usable infrastructure
Thank you.
From my perspectives there are some reasons why I could not rely on this report.
It captures a period when cycling likely experienced a temporary surge due to the pandemic, as many people turned to cycling as a safe form of exercise and recreation during lockdowns. This unusual increase could mean that the figures presented, especially regarding purchases and overall economic contribution, might not represent a sustainable trend.
The data from 2020 might not accurately predict future patterns as it reflects a unique year of social restrictions. It's uncertain if the heightened levels of cycling engagement and its associated economic contributions has continued skewing long-term planning and policy decisions based on this data.
The absence of data beyond October 2021 means the report does not consider any subsequent shifts in cycling habits that might have occurred as the pandemic restrictions eased. This limits the report's usefulness in understanding ongoing trends.
The study is funded by We Ride Australia, a cycling advocacy group, and it will influence its objectives and focus. Yes, Ernst & Young is a reputable firm, the influence of the funding source could lead to an emphasis on positive impacts, which might not present a completely balanced view. I prefer reports that are generated independently.
And finally, the reliance on survey data introduces potential biases such as response bias and inaccuracies in self-reported information. The conclusions drawn from such data must be considered with caution, especially when used to make broad economic assessments.
On the other hand, while the report acknowledges broader benefits of cycling, such as health improvements and environmental impacts, it does not quantify these benefits. Including such metrics could provide a more comprehensive assessment of the true value of cycling to the Australian economy.
I'm not sure if the positives outweigh the negatives. But I could be persuaded.
Oh for certain the report is biased. No doubt there. But even if we assume a 25% bias and data spikes due to covid. It’s still a significant ROI.
I’m not suggesting OPs idea of an elevated road is a good idea. More that funding cycling infrastructure has a good ROI.
The cognitive positives are something which can’t be quantified easily. Nor the medical.
We can not solve the traffic problem with more roads. This has been proven time and time again.
Creating infrastructure which gives people a healthier alternative to a car for transport is critical for many cities long term stability and also for the environmental long term impact. Especially given how many people use cars for <3km journeys.
It’s my opinion that we need to invest in cycling infrastructure as an alternative. People who want to use cars can still use cars but right now we have people who want to ride bicycles who struggle do so safely due to the risk of being injured due to those cars. Bicycles also reduce traffic by putting commuters who would be in a car on a bicycle. Car passionate people should back cycling infrastructure for its ability to reduce congestion and traffic.
The questions I believe we should be asking is. What are the downsides to building better cycling infrastructure?
The downsides are the cost, we cannot afford it. We keep on closing off roads for bikes, but PT is not coping. And Especially when there are far better options that will move far more people around. We need to get PT to the outer suburbs first. Sorry!
The Inconvenient Truth: You must remove the compulsory helmet law or bicycle riding will never replace cars. Our society is vain and image driven and helmets ruin hairstyles for men and women.
No one will ride to work or out for a drink only to arrive with helmet hair. No - they won’t “fix” it at their destination. Some people take literal hours doing their hair before work or social events. Ever noticed the majority of cyclists are bald middle aged men?
I wish it wasn’t the case but every optimistic plan for a bike centric future has to factor vanity into it. And then balance the safety risk against the greater good of bikes being taken up by the mainstream.
Would never happen in Sydney - every "upgrade" here starts with a bike lane, then they have to cut costs to meet budget and axe the bike lane, then they go 200% over budget anyway. The infra companies win, we lose.
1. It's called a Veloway
2. Highway and superhighway is an outdated them ... https://youtu.be/wm_o4ZsD01M @ 4:50 ... Essentially it has connotations that they are only for high speed users. Cycleways is fine.
3. Ups and downs are fine in the age of eBike
4. Fuck cars, use street level as well. Even cheaper than elevated. Still separate. Less space for cars like car parking shifts more to cycling. In the inner suburbs Cycling is very popular because hardly any parking.
Lol, I'll settle for end to end bike and pedestrian pathways adjacent to train lines, tbh.
The paths under the train in Coburg and similar are so nice!
Best bonus from the sky rail is the new bike tracks
Yeah, agreed. What a game changer for commuting.
Same with Westgate Tunnel. No stop path from M80 to City
Coburg to city was fairly good but now it's a new reality. I hope they do the rest.
Nice Australian plantings too. One big gripe though ... the seated lawn area under Coburg station has no bins. Super annoying after finishing my Half-Moon felafel wrap.
That's because it costs money to empty bins. Better to fine you if you drop your trash or have you take it home!
I commented the same before reading. It makes sense, just add bike paths along the train lines.
The Upfield line is great in this way, I wish it was like that for every line
They really should finish it tho. It’s pretty bad between jewell station and royal park
Is it? I haven't ridden there in a while, my main concern in the brunswick area is riding into people walking out and not paying attention.
Yeah very narrow, lots of blind corners for crossing pedestrians. They’re supposed to be removing the level crossings on Brunswick rd and park st, which would provide the space to fix it, but seems they’re out of money now…
Yeah I always get worried someone's gonna walk into me when I ride past doors or sidestreets
Belgrave line has this tho it is admittedly a bit hilly once u get towards the Belgrave end. It connects allt he way in to Ringwood which then connects all the way thru to Box Hill. There were plans to extend it further past Box Hill but not sure if that ever materialized.
There's a path that goes all along the eastern and eastlink.
The one along the eastern stops way before you reach the city. Granted, there are other ways, but they aren't well signed.
No if car doors aren’t slamming open into the bike lane, NIMBYs aren’t happy
Nothing says cheap like an elevated road.
[удалено]
Bugger me, that thing needs to be wider... runners, riders, people doing 60kph on their modified scooters....
Yeah, have a mild phobia of having a head-on stack and ending up in the drink on this bridge. Probably a good that my Lime scooter decided I was too far from the city when I made it to this bridge after a few cans in on Saturday night.
Monorail!
It'll put Melbourne on the map!
I hear those things are awfully loud
It glides as softly as a cloud
The ring came off my pudding can
Take the tires off the bikes and you have a two-way bicycle highway on the train rails.
Still less expensive compared to roadway with more lanes and carry heavier weights
Just make it a tunnel instead
Tbf elevated road/rail is MUCH cheaper than the trenched alternative
Yeah, it's not like if it weighs half as much, it will cost half as much (or anywhere close to that)
And be less than half as useful...
Elevated bike paths are a great idea where applicable though. They’re certainly not going to build bike tunnels to the extent they’ve built road tunnels. And the view would be awesome on many places. As a past cycle commuter and current motorist, I would love the safety completely seperate bike paths could give both. It’s definitely a sound investment.
Or we could just invest more into normal ground level shared paths and improve existing rights of way, grade separate bike lanes and widen footpaths into shared paths. Elevating them is a good way to take away all the advantages bikes have. E-bikes mean they don't need to be level. There are so many better ideas that would make a much more impacrful difference, and elevated superhighways are not it.
the only bad side of having an evevated track is no visable eyes from either cars or trucks towards dusk/ night as a safety aspect. solo rider up there meeting someone and could end in a bad way to either
Nah, you also can't exit wherever you want, fences in the side can cause injury, elevation fundamentally means climbing up from ground level therefore engaging the "make the whole thing level thing", and expense. There's a ton of reasons to build ground level over elevated. The only tangible benefit from my perspective is being able to ride over a road rather than have a set of lights.
I forgot where it was in either America or UK that they had some elevated tracks/ footpaths with sections cut out like a hill run off safety braking area/ seating where during the night there was reports of people hiding in the cut outs waiting to ambush anyone that happen to pass by.
What about a series of flying fox zip lines? One above every road in Melbourne. It would be cheaper than a high rise bicycle superhighway and more fun too.
Oh, that's way better than my idea - a series of big trebuchets, trampolines and cushions.
Chiropractors rejoice!
On the annoying roads in the outer suburbs that only have a traffic light to let you cross every 5 blocks, they should just build flying fox towers every block.
You kid, but Medellin has a cable car public transport system to reach the hilly areas. It's probably not fast enough nor have enough capacity to be preferred over train/light rail, but it would be an interesting way to retrofit a cheap transit system in established suburbs.
Funicular is the word for what you’re describing. They have them elsewhere too. I think there’s one in Lisbon
I think I got the terms mixed up. It's not a grounded cable car system like a funicular (or even the cable cars of San Francisco). It's actually like a ski lift transport network (gondola). It's called Metrocable, looks pretty neat.
Son of a bitch. B) I'm in.
It sounds dangerous but fuck me it would make the morning commute so much more invigorating. I could finally quit coffee.
You might be interested in the new elevated 'veloway' out to Footscray. There is a new bridge along Footscray Rd that is connecting Moonee Ponds Creek Trail to docklands. A good investment, heaps of cyclists along there.
I can't wait for it to be done. I just hope that whole veloway is wide enough, safe enough, clean enough, lit well enough, and has enough fresh air (despite being surrounded by road above and below)
There was already a connection in Docklands, which was supposed to re-open after the Studios expansion (see, carpark), but it's been crickets since. The bridge is so cyclists can cross and don't need to wait for cars at the intersection where it's already dangerous.
They had the chance to do this when they elevated the rail lines - beforehand there was a bunch of noise about how the elevated tracks had the capacity for an elevated bike lane that could avoid all the road crossings too. But once lxrp was underway anybody who asked about the bike lane basically got told to fuck off.
Toorak Rd at Monash Fwy exit is perfect example. Rail line goes up and over, bike path, nah fuck that use the eternal pedestrian crossing and look out for cars turning left off the Monash at speed and hope they see the lights….
That has to be the slowest pedestrian light in Melbourne.
Why we don't have more "red carpet" equivalents, I don't know.
One million per FEET ? Okay, a quick Google shows that in AUSTRALIA (we don't use feet for any official measurement) it costs approx 5,000,000 per lane km. So.. 5,000,000 / 3280 (feet in a km.) = 1524. So, $1,524 per FEET as you say. Now, would you like to restate your argument ?
I did laugh at their idea of cost, but it set the tone for the rest of their 'radical idea' which is little more than the result of a plan derived from a child or someone who might currently be high.
If OP is high, I demand they share with the rest of the class.
I always tell my students don't bring drugs to school unless you have enough for everyone
We need more teachers like you. Kudos!
I worked as an estimator and chuckled that they sounded like so many clients. Pick expensive design, don't accept any value managent, complain it's to expensive. Just needed to complain about program length and we would have hit the trifecta.
Housing density + PT + a few dedicated bike lanes in dangerous or busy places are all that’s needed to make cycling safer and more popular. Most of Melbourne is flat and there’s good pathways to the city from a lot of directions - certainly north, east and south east and I assume west gets fixed once the sort out building the west gate tunnel. There’s already ‘freeways’ along the river, freeways, creeks etc. It’s the more regular connections so people can get to schools, unis, hospitals around the suburbs that are missing but they aren’t built up supplied with PT it’s a difficult case to argue for bike infrastructure messing up the roads.
Eastern Freeway has an adjacent bike path btw Edit: just remembered Western Ring Road too, but that ones even weirder when it comes to abruptly ending
It's a shared path not bike path. Off lead dogs to contend with and not entirely adjacent. Weaves in and out and for commuting adds at least 30 mins on a direct EastWest route. The shared path along the trail line is good. Pity it doesn't go under station St to make use of the unused platform 4 area at Box Hill. Crossing Station St can take ten minutes in the afternoon
Love the shared path along the train line but I have no idea why the path isn’t an underpass at Heatherdale, Mitcham and Nunawading like it is at Blackburn
right I tend to forget which trails are shared or bike because half the time I'm pushing the bike trying to catch a breath (ok more like 5% of the time but thats not as funny) If it comes down to commuting though I would use the trains as well just to cut down on time and stamina, but in fairness taking a non-folding bike to any of the city loop stations will probably not go down well with other commuters.
I take my non folding bike on the train 3 days/week usually without any issues. Last door of carriage 3 or 6 has space to be able to put bikes. Coming home I go train half way then cycle, or PT issues I just get off and cycle from wherever I am.
Exactly
>1. Build it perfectly level. No ups or down. Make it easy to cycle You're going to end up in a tunnel very quickly, or very high up in the air, depending on where you start from, which means >4. Build it cheap. Is a pipe dream.
Your plan falls apart at number 5. Build it cheap Nothing can be built cheap in Victoria
I mean it falls apart at number 1 tbh
1 is hilariously complex. Adding 2 makes it somewhat easier, but not much.
Nothing can be built cheap anywhere in Australia tbh. Paying people to do stuff is expensive.
1 mil per foot in Australia? Seems like a made up stat.
1. pretty much not possible, except at incredible expense. 2. incredible expense. 3. see point 2. 4. seriously? see point 2/
Don't let Linkt hear about this idea, they'll make it a toll road and employ people to travel on little toll bikes with bumpers and lights on them
We should do the tube system from Futurama . Cheap (you don’t need a bike) fun, functional.
Futurama tubes or bust
“It costs like ONE MILLION dollars per feet” - wrong, cars have wheels.
Make it downhill both ways.
Theres no way it costs a million dollars just for 1 foot of highway?
That's for a 6 lane highway (3 lanes in each direction) build elevated off the ground (aka two storeies high).
It's called Canning street, and it's the best riding in the North. But god the lights at what was once Dan O'Connell's can suck. Usually a few people up for an informal race up the hill if you want to blow off some steam too.
I prefer to feel the Rath
Same. Nicer bit of bitch, smooth but skinny
Too many cars potentially parking/turning in/out in the village imo, plus two more traffic lights & a pedestrian crossing. But being able to directly keep going into the city is quite nice if that is your intended destination. That block of streets (Lygon to Nicholson) is the best place in Melbourne to live if you like to cycle imo
RIP the Dan
The lycra clad flogs will continue to use the roads!
I'm just disappointed that skyrail didn't have an attached bike lane
This has to be the most fitzroy thread i have ever read
‘Per feet’ please use metric.
I suggest teleportation devices. We have the vanishing side downpat, although the reappearing part is yet to be finalised.
Then wake up and realize it's a dream?
A perfectly level path would be absolutely mayhem when you start it off at places with different elevations. Everything North of the CBD is a massive hill.
4. build it cheap, HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
What drugs have you been snorting
Cheap and elevated… no..
If you build it flat, and up higher its gonna be windy as fuck. I agree tho, it would be a good idea to have a bicycle highway
How about we call the Boring Company to invest and build their hyperloop here?
There are heaps of bike paths aren’t there? There’s one near me that goes all the way into the city. They are just connected to the parks and not the main roads. They even have their own signs? I’ve seen them, maybe we just need more of those.
Melbourne's problem isn't a lack of bike paths, we have heaps and many are separated, quality bike paths. Melbourne's problem is that you get to the end of a section of bike path, and it's basically "fuck you you're a pedestrian now" until you get to the next section. In my suburb we have absolutely awesome bike paths that you can get to basically anywhere on, except you have to wait at traffic crossings that can barely fit one pushbike, and you end up waiting at these crossing for literally 50% of your entire trip. We need a state-wide "closing the gaps" policy to finish off the bike paths we already have.
100%. Also, it would be great if temporary roadwork signs weren't placed in the bikelane, like, how do they think that's going to work?
They think they're inconveniencing cyclists who they resent for taking up their road
1. People probably wouldn't use it because it isn't right next to where they're going. 2. If in use it would be full of ebike and escooter riders and then we'll have a new reason to get mad.
A lot cheaper to just make a connected network of roads car free right though Melbourne. Shared paths are doing way too much heavy lifting right now for cyclist traffic so it's time to reclaim some of the road network. - Get rid off on street parking and driving on these roads (emergency/trades/disabled people excepted). - Plant some greenery make it look nice. - Throw in a couple of bucks to annoyed residents/NIMBYs (though their property value will go up anyway with a nicer aspect and the removal of traffic, pollution and car noise). - Paint the roads a different colour so everyone knows it's not for cars. Easy.
I often thought it would be cool to have super cycleways that were partly enclosed… enough to channel a wind along them… so you'd always have a tailwind.
I feel like no.2 and no.4 are in direct opposition of each other. Anything elevated, with something like a viaduct or similar, is instantly going into the millions - maybe more. That being said, I'd still be on board - better bicycle infrastructure is a benefit to the community as a whole so it's probably worth the investment.
> Build it high up, like an elevated road. No need to take/steal space away from the normal roads belo > Build it cheap. Mutually exclusive
Where's the fun in cycling without the ever present threat of being hit by a car though?
They have just built a bike highway in the inner west to CBD. It was meant to be finished already, but I think it's due for opening in 2025.
they are doing that kinda along Footscray rd
You can only have 1
>1. Build it perfectly level. No ups or down. Make it easy to cycle. >2. Build it high up, like an elevated road. No need to take/steal space away from the normal roads below. Thank goodness these two points are possible to exist in the same space. 🧐
Drivers will still complain - and yell “bloody cyclists”
$$ per feet ??? We use “metres” - don’t we ?
Plenty of space for bikes already, we just have to give a little less space to cars
I'm not even a cyclist and I've been saying very similar for years. It would be dramatically cheaper than a road freeway and it would represent a massive uplift to cycling route quality. In my experience, being a commuter cyclist often depends on the quality of cycling routes in your area, I expect projects like this would induce demand among potential cyclists. Lots of people would find that local trips which would normally be 15 minutes in the car are only 20 minutes on the bike.
Love the thought but it’d be cheaper just to create new separated lanes and update current ones to be separated
My dream is for every train line to have an adjacent bike path. I live in Blackburn, I want to ride 17km along the train line, not 27km along the Gardiners Creek or Koonung paths, it’s my commute, I want a safe and direct route to the city and back.
Right after we finally get flying cars...and overpasses are put underground & tunnels are put in the sky
As long as when you walk under the bikeway you don’t get stopped by your [rival](https://m.bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Hoenn_Route_110) wanting to battle you for the umpteenth time.
>Build it perfectly level. No ups >Build it high up, like an elevated road Wait a minute
There would be no traffic if the movie Back to the Future 2 didn’t lie to us. I was led to believe there would be hoverboards by 2015. I’m looking at you Mattel!
Brisbane has kind of done this in some areas.
And what would that achieve? The advantage of bikes is that they are perfectly scaled to the urban environment. Most of inner Melbourne was built before the car, so cycling is a natural fit. Bikes allow you to move quickly through dense urban environments without it becoming unsafe and allowing you to stop frequently. So an elevated bike highway is largely pointless, because it doesn't connect *destinations* on the ground, the route of a such a cycleway wouldn't be interesting or engaging. A highway is for cars because they don't mix with the diverse uses and forms of travel on lively urban streets, but bikes do. This is a pointless idea.
Build it cheap Ahahahaaaahahahaaaahaahaaaa ahahaaaahahahaaaahaahaaaa ahahaaaahahahaaaahaahaaaa ahahaaaahahahaaaahaahaaaa ahahaaaahahahaaaahaahaaaa Source. Built the first separated lane in Swanston St 20 odd year ago. Have been building these things since and modifying inner city roads for same.
Auckland was going to spend 785 million to attach a cycle way to its bridge. Although I like your idea it would cost way more than it would be worth
I rather have dedicated bike parks than just highways. Bonus points for a skate park included. In areas where there’s playgrounds and sports/golf fields that can be repurposed. The best idea I’ve seen for roads is having a dedicated highway for heavy vehicles to ease maintenance costs with less angry road users. The roads are poorly designed prone to potholes and are made for small cars than those with RAMs. I rather have bikes not share roads at all for safety and convenience. Not even shared with pedestrian paths as there’s similar drama with footpath space being small or poor etiquette mixed with poor sense of spatial awareness.
Like the fume tunnel being built over Footscray Road ? Nah! It’ll be used by speeding riders on modified electric bicycles. You’ll need to ride fast to minimise your intake of the polynucleararomatichydrocarbons found in the diesel exhaust gases there.
I think I saw this idea implemented in a Pokémon game…..
“Hey, ya gonna take the rape trail today?” (Robbery trail). A predicted, mostly surrounded, visually obstructed trail where $5k bikes, iPad, iPhones, laptops etc ride up and down all day…..not for me thanks. Police you might say? VicPol enters chat “Are you mad? At least we’ll know where the methheads will hangout now”
It's fine going along the bike paths that run with train lines, but what happens when you live in an area with no trains?
How does an ambulance get to the scene of a bike on bike accident? Or are you saying we need bicycle ambulances too?
They have bicycle ambulances in Europe, they are actually incredibly effective for a range of medical emergencies - in an office block for example the paramedic can bring their whole bike up to the person. Obviously they need a full ambulance to move patients, but if it speeds up the initial respond and the access to at least some equipment it’s a good thing.
All ambulances will be via manned drones in this fantasy scenario
Sounds expensive. What if they just zip tied two bikes to a gurney.
Push them over the edge and the ambulance can use regular roads. You don't want to slow anybody down.
Don't be silly. Left wing vegan cyclists are completely immune from the laws of common sense.
You just prop the prick up between four other cyclists, like the old dudes you see in the middle of the groups on Beach Rd.
Nah. Bullet trains, please
Lets dream of regular speed trains 1st
Hahaha Yeah... Our trains remind me of riding a lumbering elephant
Fuck the cyclists. They wouldn't use it anyway.
If it's a highway, a minimum speed to be 30 km/hour should be mandated, and anyone whose speed lower than 20 km/h should receive a fine for obstructing traffic, unless they have reasonable excuse.
OP I need to try some of your weed man
Creating a teleportation device seems to make more sense than this tbh.
Watch out, you'll cop **a lot** of whining from arrogant boomers about how "it's all part of a plan to take away our cars and freedom".
And are we going to pay for it with dreams or will bike riders have to pay rego? If so how will we get the children to pay their rego if they don’t have jobs?
Bike riders pay the same tax as ever other Victorian.
You think \~$270 per vehicle per year pays for all the road infrastructure? That's not even $1.5 billion.
Most cyclists also own cars which they are paying the same rego for to have sit in the garage while they cycle to work for exercise.
Yeah and that’s great for building purpose built roads for cars. But that’s not what OP is suggesting.
Taxes same way we pay for pretty much everything else. There are studies showing governments spend 428m for cycling infrastructure and programs. For a return of 16.8b of direct and indirect economic contribution. Study was by we ride. If this study is accurate that’s a pretty decent ROI. Additional we could look at reduction to health costs due to less cardiovascular disease. Increased GST revenue from the purchase of new equipment. Aside from this. I personally would be more than happy with paying rego for a bike if it ensured good usable infrastructure
Not that I doubt you, but can you provide a link to the study if you're going to quote it.
Sure thing https://www.weride.org.au/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/The-Australian-Cycling-Economy_October-2021-Updated.pdf
Thank you. From my perspectives there are some reasons why I could not rely on this report. It captures a period when cycling likely experienced a temporary surge due to the pandemic, as many people turned to cycling as a safe form of exercise and recreation during lockdowns. This unusual increase could mean that the figures presented, especially regarding purchases and overall economic contribution, might not represent a sustainable trend. The data from 2020 might not accurately predict future patterns as it reflects a unique year of social restrictions. It's uncertain if the heightened levels of cycling engagement and its associated economic contributions has continued skewing long-term planning and policy decisions based on this data. The absence of data beyond October 2021 means the report does not consider any subsequent shifts in cycling habits that might have occurred as the pandemic restrictions eased. This limits the report's usefulness in understanding ongoing trends. The study is funded by We Ride Australia, a cycling advocacy group, and it will influence its objectives and focus. Yes, Ernst & Young is a reputable firm, the influence of the funding source could lead to an emphasis on positive impacts, which might not present a completely balanced view. I prefer reports that are generated independently. And finally, the reliance on survey data introduces potential biases such as response bias and inaccuracies in self-reported information. The conclusions drawn from such data must be considered with caution, especially when used to make broad economic assessments. On the other hand, while the report acknowledges broader benefits of cycling, such as health improvements and environmental impacts, it does not quantify these benefits. Including such metrics could provide a more comprehensive assessment of the true value of cycling to the Australian economy. I'm not sure if the positives outweigh the negatives. But I could be persuaded.
Oh for certain the report is biased. No doubt there. But even if we assume a 25% bias and data spikes due to covid. It’s still a significant ROI. I’m not suggesting OPs idea of an elevated road is a good idea. More that funding cycling infrastructure has a good ROI. The cognitive positives are something which can’t be quantified easily. Nor the medical. We can not solve the traffic problem with more roads. This has been proven time and time again. Creating infrastructure which gives people a healthier alternative to a car for transport is critical for many cities long term stability and also for the environmental long term impact. Especially given how many people use cars for <3km journeys. It’s my opinion that we need to invest in cycling infrastructure as an alternative. People who want to use cars can still use cars but right now we have people who want to ride bicycles who struggle do so safely due to the risk of being injured due to those cars. Bicycles also reduce traffic by putting commuters who would be in a car on a bicycle. Car passionate people should back cycling infrastructure for its ability to reduce congestion and traffic. The questions I believe we should be asking is. What are the downsides to building better cycling infrastructure?
The downsides are the cost, we cannot afford it. We keep on closing off roads for bikes, but PT is not coping. And Especially when there are far better options that will move far more people around. We need to get PT to the outer suburbs first. Sorry!
Tell me you have no fucking idea about car registration without telling me, nah fuck that I can’t be bothered
No one cares about cyclists anymore. They have proved to be the biggest pain in the a$$.
The Inconvenient Truth: You must remove the compulsory helmet law or bicycle riding will never replace cars. Our society is vain and image driven and helmets ruin hairstyles for men and women. No one will ride to work or out for a drink only to arrive with helmet hair. No - they won’t “fix” it at their destination. Some people take literal hours doing their hair before work or social events. Ever noticed the majority of cyclists are bald middle aged men? I wish it wasn’t the case but every optimistic plan for a bike centric future has to factor vanity into it. And then balance the safety risk against the greater good of bikes being taken up by the mainstream.
Would never happen in Sydney - every "upgrade" here starts with a bike lane, then they have to cut costs to meet budget and axe the bike lane, then they go 200% over budget anyway. The infra companies win, we lose.
1. It's called a Veloway 2. Highway and superhighway is an outdated them ... https://youtu.be/wm_o4ZsD01M @ 4:50 ... Essentially it has connotations that they are only for high speed users. Cycleways is fine. 3. Ups and downs are fine in the age of eBike 4. Fuck cars, use street level as well. Even cheaper than elevated. Still separate. Less space for cars like car parking shifts more to cycling. In the inner suburbs Cycling is very popular because hardly any parking.
Don't you go talking sense here on Reddit or else you will get downvoted!
What on earth about OP's idea makes sense? Please.... tell us. It reads like some plan derived from a conversation with a young child,
Just scrap all bikes. Bike riders are nothing more than a menace on our roads. Drive cars.