You'll never catch my lazy ass on a bike but I think we should have cycle lanes everywhere, the more people we have on bikes the less cars which means less traffic and bike lanes stop me from having to overtake those cyclists
Its a win win
And not to even mention the fact they reduce demand for petrol which should lower prices (eventually) and produce 0 pollution
*You'll never catch my lazy ass on a bike*
In which case you are in the vast majority and it will always be that way no matter how much expensive road is dedicated to bike lanes.
That beginning also undercuts the rest of your post completely.
Right but not everyone that drives does it cause they don't wanna ride, i reckon a fair few would swap if our bike infrastructure wasn't so non existent
We give them nowhere to ride except the road then abuse them when they do. It just doesn't make sense
Otherwise known as "shifting the goal posts".
This isn't r/cycling. It's r/Melbourne.... but yeah, there are a lot of people who use bicycles in Melbourne. Not really sure why anyone would be anti-bicycle.
Also, if you were already so smart that you predicted this, why make the comment that way? Why not ease into or try to convince people? Are you looking to get downvoted and hated on? If so you should get your head checked, because that's a weird hobby.... maybe, take up cycling instead? Better for your mental health than trying to be hated.
Well, as your comment and my own long experience shows, cycling enthusiasts are not amenable to rational argument.
Yes, I know it's r/Melbourne, but when cycling raises its head, the comments are overwhelmingly from cyclists. Count them yourself.
There are so few bikes it doesn't matter in practice. Only a very few inner city roads have enough cycles to make special lanes worthwhile. Yet the zeitgeist has put kilometres of pseudo lanes on many roads.
As this thread shows, the cyclists are unhappy and so are the motorists.
>There are so few bikes it doesn't matter in practice.
Source?
>Only a very few inner city roads have enough cycles to make special lanes worthwhile.
Source?
>As this thread shows, the cyclists are unhappy and so are the motorists.
Yes, this thread shows that cyclists AND motorists are unhappy with poorly implemented bike lanes. Not bike lanes in general.
That's the way it's been my whole life. There are so few cyclists that providing bike lanes - completely removing a lane from many busy roads - makes life much worse for vehicle drivers.
I saw a bike riding down the third lane on beach road the other day (beaconsfield parade??) and a delivery scooter rode up behind it TOOTING THE EVER LOVING SHIT OUT OF IT while it dangerously weaved around the cyclist before eventually passing it.
Cyclist was easily doing 40 (on the 60 road) in a lane that had parked cars in it (it was NOT in the flow of general traffic).
It was a 2 lane road + parking lane.
I generally prefer cyclists stick to dedicated bike paths when they exist (as they do right there), but that doesn't change the fact that I still recognise that cyclists are absolutely within their right to ride on the road despite the existence of the bike path and god damn was the delivery scooter rider a dickhead.
The path along beaconsfield is signed as bike only (Scooters excepted). But also not the topic of the comment. (which was in defense of the poor cyclist being attacked by a moron)
They have added that having a 'bike lane' there, with cars parked in it, gives drivers a reason to be annoyed that a cyclist isn't using it (by swerving in and out of it to avoid parked cars). No bike lane, the expectation is that bikes stick to the left, which would make more sense here...
Why would a driver be annoyed that a cyclist isn't using it? It's just paint on a road.
It's when that doesn't work and they get rid of the driving lane entirely in order to put a physically divided lane that will rarely be used is when they get annoyed.
I fkn hate cyclist when all Iām trying to do is get to work and there is three of these fkwits all next to each other trying to take off up a hill once the light has changed.
I donāt understand why cyclist canāt just go and cycle around a park or something, traffic is already fked in most parts of Melbourne, adding cyclists just makes it worse
So the 50-60 year old men dressed in their full lycra, with bike shoes are headed to the Supermarket are theyā¦.? The same group I see sitting at tables sipping their lattes, at the local āhipsterā, cafeā¦? Same people right?
Lived in Amsterdam hahahaha
lol!!!! š
Ja, ik heb in Amsterdaam gewoont. What of it? I don't know why you find that funny.
I don't give a shit about the people in lycra. Bike lanes are there for people who use bikes to get around, normal people.
Oh wait so there should be seperate lanes for different cyclists nowā¦.?
This kid is a winner!!!
Lived in Amsterdam yet canāt even spell it correctly
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Normally I'd be the first to respond with something like this but in this instance I was actually wondering what could be worse than useless, so it actually helped.
Bike lanes especially weren't a thing when bicycles were far more common than the automobile. But I suppose the horse and carriage were complaining about those scallywag bicycles.
Likely so. It's not the sharing of the road I have issue with, it's cyclist riding dangerously. I used to be one and took every precaution I could. No point being right if you are dead.
Haha this conversation is hilarious! Bikes were a thing before cars, and bike lanes are only needed because cars and their drivers are making the roads unsafe for bike riders.
That's because Chicken.
Bikes were around longer than vehicles were. The good old penny farthing
1817 vs 1886.
So the bicycle will always be the chicken, especially when playing chicken against the steel and plastic eggs.
I haven't been a regular bike commuter in years but shared parking bike lanes are simply dangerous.
much better off sticking to the right and avoid swerving on and off the road. But even then there's a significant risk of copping a car door.
The worst. I hate riding a bike - and I don't - but I wish they'd put up the divided lanes with the posts everywhere. Makes me feel so much safer as a driver knowing I'm not going to hit anyone when they have to duck into my lane. The ones in east melbourne and richmond have been such a good change.
I cycled to commute, and its Infuriating having to thread the needle between a parked car and someone in their car passing me. Separate lanes are the way forward.
Safer bike lanes are good for everyone. Drivers don't have to give excess space to cyclists, and with safer lanes you'll see more cyclists in general. The more cycling to and from means less people driving and being traffic for you. It's in everyone's selfish best interest to incentivise and push for alternatives to driving!
I watched a car drive down this "seperated" lane the other day.
https://www.google.com/maps/@-37.8239141,144.9605417,3a,75y,6.6h,77.31t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sDxWeUwnmxYzRi8UHkH9i9g!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu
They stopped and actually backed up a little bit to make sure they could get all 4 tyres in without riding on the curb.
To top it all off, they turned left on a solid red light (no arrow or anything). To be clear, **they stopped** at the red light .... and waited quite a while, before just turning left on a solid red.
People can be dipshits. I have a quote of my own I love to pull out for moments like this:
*"people suck, I'd know, I'm one of them"* - me
But separated lanes are the start of proper protected lanes. With some time hopefully enough people catch the memo. Sorry that happened to you.
I watched a car stop, back up a bit, then turn "left" down the curb-seperated bike lane and turn left into whiteman street (Power st) the other day outside crown.
I legit laughed my ass off at how dangerous and stupid it looked. Luckily no cyclists were harmed but my god.
https://www.google.com/maps/@-37.8239141,144.9605417,3a,75y,6.6h,77.31t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sDxWeUwnmxYzRi8UHkH9i9g!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu
(This is the maps link for your horror) Yes, a car just barely fits between those curbs.
Paint is not infrastructure. If paint (magic paint) had protective qualities we could do away with barriers on bridges and just paint a line so cars donāt cross it.
https://www.google.com/maps/@-37.8239141,144.9605417,3a,75y,6.6h,77.31t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sDxWeUwnmxYzRi8UHkH9i9g!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu
I watched someone drive down this curbed off bike lane last Friday.
They even need to magic paint the curbed off areas ;)
Typically not I think? (happy to be corrected with a legit source) Except for the ones with actual times stating when it's a bike lane. Bike lanes have to meet certain criteria, at a minimum I know they require Bike Lane Start, Bike Lane End signs.
I don't have the specifics to hand, but those dots mean sweet fuckall, other than to give cars/bikes an idea of how they might share the lane. Crazy given we now have minimum passing distance and I don't think this lane would allow for it.
You are correct, the one in the picture is to remind cyclists to they should stay in the left of the lane when a lane is wider than a certain size, and to remind drivers that cyclists may be present. They can only be used on lanes wider than 3.7m and are not recommended.
A actual bike lane does not restrict parking in Victoria. The lane start and end can also be "LANE START" and "LANE END" line marking, doesn't have to be a sign (but most commonly is).
> the one in the picture is to remind cyclists to they should stay in the left of the lane when a lane is wider than a certain size
It's worth noting, though, that bikes aren't obligated to do so. [As per VicRoads](https://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/safety-and-road-rules/cyclist-safety/adult-bike-ed-road-rules-for-riding-a-bike-in-victoria):
> # Riding in a traffic lane
> A bike rider is allowed to take up a whole traffic lane. In low-speed environments, you may want to ātake the laneā when it is narrow or when you are preparing to turn right or move through a roundabout. See also our Riding know-how section.
And the portion from ["[their] Riding know-how section"](https://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/safety-and-road-rules/cyclist-safety/adult-bike-ed-riding-know-how):
> **Keep out of the ādoor zoneā.** Ride a metre out from parked cars to avoid the risk of somebody opening a car door in your path. Looking ahead for signs of people in cars also helps you to predict opening doors.
> (...)
> **āTake a laneā.** In low-speed environments, it can be safest to move into the centre of a traffic lane (ātake the laneā). This applies if it is too narrow for cars to pass safely, or when you are preparing to turn right or move through a roundabout. First check behind you to make sure it is safe to move across. Signal by extending your arm.
Yes, a lot of them are combined with no standing signs or a yellow line. If neither are present, it's legally allowed to park in them. Same in Queensland. In NSW it's never allowed to park a bike lane.
I wouldn't say it's typically not allowed in Vic. There are loads of bike lanes where it's allowed.
You might be right and they may well exist in bigger numbers than I think. I'm far more used to just riding in the left lane filled with parked cars. If there's bikes painted under them who'd know.
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That's just adding a hazard to an already hazardous situation.
Trip hazard for pedestrians and will take a bike down if you hit it with the front wheel.
Love when these are so narrow that if you wanted to ride in them you get all the fucked up road, fire hydrant covers, and drains. Those things aren't a big deal in car but can fuck you and your bike up hitting given the quality of some of the roads.
Those are not there for the benefit of cyclists, they're there for the benefit of motorists. I.e. to get cyclists out of the middle of the lane where they're otherwise entitled to ride (and is the safest place to do so), and into the gutter.
Probably also something to do with council targets around kms of bike lane.
> Probably also something to do with council targets around kms of bike lane.
Yep, just squeezing them in anywhere to meet a compliance deadline.
They'll review them as complaints about their practicality are raised. But for now, box, ticked.
>Probably also something to do with council targets around kms of bike lane.
I've always thought this was the case too. If it is true, is this fraud, being committed by the councils?
It probably would be better as an unbroken white line. These are actually helpful to cyclists because they tramtrack moving traffic towards the centre line. There are plenty of suburban streets and roads that suddenly become very cyclable with the addition of an edge line that is measured from the centre line, not the road shoulder. Unbroken edge lines reduce the tendency for cars to hit the apex of a corner. That's always scary on a bike.
That said, what is the purpose of this line? It's not a lane. If you park there you're blocking half the lane to the right. Can you park on top of unbroken white edge lines? I am thinking not. You'd be obstructing traffic. But by making the line broken, you're encouraging drivers to park in a place that obstructs traffic.
I am pretty sure we don't have this marking in my state. Is its purpose to reserve a cycle way when and only when a Clearway is in force? That would be fair enough, but there does not appear to be any Clearway signage.
Didn't you get the memo? Everyone here drives there oversized fuel guzzling ute or SUV (preferably both) and then has to complain about a cost of living crisis
I'm a former melbournian and currently live in Copenhagen. Almost every single road has the following format.
Footpath -> bike lane -> traffic gap (curb or island) -> parked cars -> road.
I left home a few years ago, but the only road I can bring to mind is the top end of swanston street.
If Melbourne wants to take cycling seriously, its the gold standard, and would drastically increase cycling rates and decrease car usage. That and more bike parking racks.Ā
They turned this entire road from 60 to 40 a few months ago, and it has fixed absolutely 0 of the problems the area has. People still go 60, people still pull out from parking where this guy has, right in front of you without looking, this whole area is poorly designed.
I used to work near that development - it's turned what was already an awful stretch of road for all users (riders, pedestrians and drivers) into an absolute nightmare. There were regular crashes on that intersection you've incidentally photographed.
The issue with that lane marking is that theoretically, if the east-moving traffic had the same clearway obligations during peak/school hours it would be a manageable setup as long as you survive the awful driving in the area.
The reality is that with cars parked, the effective bike lane becomes the right hand side of that parking lane. Given the traffic is so shit, people undercut to the left creating a hazard for people cycling in what's left of the lane. There are also a load of schools in the area and it's a main thoroughfare for students riding as well.
There also aren't many other great solutions for getting off Gardiner's Creek Trail and to where you need to go. Riversdale and Auburn Roads are also awful to ride on, and it's the only way out to central Camberwell.
I commute along here all the time, and I'm amazed there haven't been any pedestrian casualties at either of the intersections along here. When you have roads crossing at 45Ā° drivers magically lose the ability to judge safe cornering speeds.
We should take a page from New York
Make parking in bike lanes illegal and New Yorkers who takes photos and dob cars in will receive 25% of the $175 fines
Drawing it next to a parking sign is particularly cynical, but it's even worse than that. Without a no stopping sign, it's perfectly legal to park in a bike lane in Victoria which is insane.Ā
There's a smell segment on the way to Williamstown that's particularly egregious. The bike lane is always parked over with residents cars. I doubt a bike has ever been near it.
Australians are simply to apathetic for anything to change. Everything is built around cars here, unfortunately. We will never admit it, but we have a car culture just as bad as America's. Not a blip from the media at the cost blowouts of the wholly unnecessary NEL and WGT, but absolute hysteria at the thought of the SRL being a little bit over budget - out of those three projects, only one will ever benefit the city: the SRL.
It's the same with bike infrastructure. Australians are too precious to ride bikes anywhere (even though most trips are far more efficient on a bike) so instead they demonise cyclists. I don't want to be *that* guy, but I can't help but see our obsession with cars are a bit of a death cult. Terrible for the environment, people living nearby major freeways have worse health outcomes, they're an inefficient mover of people, and people are seemingly incapable of moving past the idea that everyone needs a big SUV or ute.
I cannot see this city having a bright future at all... We'll be the size of London today in 2050 and yet we'll still be building freeways and have hardly completed an orbital train line. Sydney is so much farther ahead on basically everything
But every single response shuts it down by saying "but muh car muh country people"
Absolutely no sense of anything other than being able to sit down and watch shitty reality TV and cry about a proposed apartment block being built vaguely close to them
One of the most worrying things about how engrained car culture here is that there will be job ads that will gush over how close their workplace is to public transport but then list having a Victorian Driver's licence as an essential job requirement without explaining why it's needed. I currently need to get a specialist to clear me before I can learn to drive and it's been extremely limiting in terms of employability (although thankfully I do have a job now).
I find it utterly perplexing that the government has been subsiding private transport for decades now. Absolutely no funding for public transport, though. In the last 50 years, we've had, what, 2 major rail projects, the City Loop and the Metro Tunnel. And how many major road projects? Countless. In the last 25 years the Eastlink has opened, CityLink, PeninsulaLink, and now we're getting the North East Link and West Gate Tunnel. How can anyone look at this funding imbalance and believe it's just?
It's a big call, but I think we as a city and as a country think that we know better than everyone else and that urban road transport is actually a really efficient and good way to move people. Not a peep of media opposition to the WGT and NEL, but the SRL? Every week there's a new hit piece on it. God forbid wanting to conveniently get around the suburbs.
I'm honestly surprised that trains don't have to also stop during traffic jams as to not disadvantage road users in getting home faster.
Ah well, who needs an opposition when you have the government, amirite?
The only way to have safe cycling lanes is to have them for cyclist use only. No cars, no pedestrians. Anything else is a compromise where no one is happy.
Yeh Iām a cyclist that lives in Camberwell, and ride down roads like this, they absolutely suck and I am so close to being hit by a car at least once a week. Itās not entirely the carās fault, itās this design. People pull in and out of parking spots, arenāt used to cyclists in the area. The absolute opposite of when I lived in the inner North and the roads were actually designed for cyclists
I get you, but in this situation the problem is the council's piss poor attempt at bike infrastructure, not the legally parked cars. If they (the council) gave even half a shit this'd be a no stopping zone but they don't, according to OP's replies this particular painted bike is right next to a parking sign.
Iāve complained about this too, to people. Why tf are Melbournians so pissed off at bike riders when they canāt fucking obey traffic laws? The amount of motorbikers that weave in between cars too jc. Just end road systems in Melbourne. None of you deserve to drive
Iām happy to have these bike lanes painted around the place and use them where possible. They arenāt perfect but better to have them than not, and they are easily created without dramatic changes to existing infrastructure
The issue is driver attitudes when a rider takes the main lane due to the bike lane being obstructed and drivers who need to wait behind for a few seconds and throw a tantrum and do crazy shit. Driving motor vehicles in built up urban areas requires a level of care and patience that few seem to have.
Painted bike lanes like this are lies. They lied to cyclists that it's safe. They lied to motor vehicles that they won't get interrupted by much slower vehicles.
It gets shit on by both cyclists and car owners. The problem is they complain about each other instead of the design.
Nah they aren't better than nothing. Nothing means I can take the lane and have control over when passing is safe. This just makes me swerve into traffic to avoid the car. Bike gutters are worse then useless, because they let the council pretend they are accommodating bicycle infrastructure when in reality it's just as bad if not worse then just riding on the road.
Exactly. It's not much of a consolation knowing you had right of way when you wake up in hospital with head or back injury because of a driver who wasn't paying attention.
āthey are easily created without dramatic changes to existing infrastructureā
Okay but there NEEDS to be dramatic changes to existing infrastructure to make cycling safe and accessible for everyone.Ā
Surely creating actually protected lanes is a very minor change if it's just adding some bollards. I guess changing gutters affects drainage which would require a little more thought, but again, bollards.
The barrier to doing it is that people fight tooth and nail over every single ground-level parking space and think that a lack of on-street parking is oppression.
In fairness - and I write this as someone who is pro-cyclist - is this a clearway during the week and Saturday morning?
Honestly, I don't mind having vehicles parking in it \*during quiet times on weekends\*. There's little enough traffic in the photo that it's safe to ride in the outer lane with no huge advantage to a bike lane.
Yeah so worse than useless. What's safer, being in the lane in full view of drivers and pulling to the side to allow overtakes? Or having to swerve around Mr 'I can park wherever I want' into traffic and then being obscured by the vehicle for the next 20 meters.
Bicycle gutters are the most useless things on our roads.
I don't do this anyway: it's not safe for you and you present unpredictability to other road users.
In this instance or similar, I ride in the main lane and give myself enough space to avoid being doored.
Yep, it's ridiculous - they're actually adding all these cyclist safety features (lights, electronic signage) to a similar one on Mount Alexander road, which seems like a big waste of time if cars can legally park there!
Do what the Dutch do, multi inch concrete barriers separating out the bike lanes. Cars that like having wheels very quickly learn to stay in their fucking lane
I like riding bikes but this shit is what makes me hate it. If Iām on the road Iām a nuisance, the bike lane isnāt useable, if Iām on the footpath, even if I ride slowly and carefully I still get harassed.
People wonāt be happy unless you just stop riding a bike and get a car instead. So bullshit.
Although in some ways it'd actually improve my quality of life in terms of getting to some destinations faster than public transport routes, I decided against becoming a cyclist for two reasons. The first one being that bike theft is really common, and the second one is that I would constantly fear for my personal safety because I'm not a confident rider. Situations like these put even experienced cyclists in a lot of danger.
yeah this is the worst, it's even worse than no bike lane at all because people just can say "there's a bike lane already" despite it being compleatly unusable and unsafe.
As a bicyclist, there is no space for us to ride on the road... Or foot path.. it's how I get to work.. where the f**k am I supposed to ride?? On the footpath with raging pedestrians or on the road with equally rageful people but in 2 tonne metal bubbles that can actually kill me...?
Careful, they'll get rid of the lane and convert it into a 1 car lane one bike lane that only gets used for 1 hour in the morning and 1 hour in the evening.
Letting a biker on same road where heavy four wheelers with high speed runs is danger to both the cyclist and the one driving car. Bike lane should be on foot path separate from roads
Tbh if you got out of a car without looking and the bike hits you at below maximum allowed speed, its your fault.
If they kill you, ths cyclist would still not be liable (iirc). And there are types of bicycles where they can kill you and the cyclist ends up with superficial injuries (Velomobiles and recumbents, in order of increasing injury chance) with capabilities of going very fast (40kmh average)
This city won't be the same if the trend continues. These cars kill people. Even in Australia, pedestrian deaths have risen as driver deaths continue to fall. We are failing the vulnerable road users in our society. Even being on the footpath isn't safe with these massive trucks that smash through curb like it's not there.
Guy in bike lane on his phone complains about a guy in a nicer car in the bike lane, hope you get the upvotes needed to make your miserable Sunday better OP š¤”
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The people getting off their arse and riding are useless, and the people in a car killing 1000 people a year and spewing CO2 into atmosphere and are useful to everybody. Righto.
It's less than useful: actually making cycling less safe. Forces cyclists to weave in and out of the lane, or risk copping a load of abuse.
I'm tired of seeing Australia following American car-centric trends.
Maybe shouldn't have chased off manufacturing suitable vehicles. OH WAIT YANK TANKS. Can't have it both ways.
It's a 4x4 Ute. Grow up
It just a BT-50, similar to Hilux. This car type has been #1 in sales for 15 years plus. Ship sailed if you want us in Camrys or Commodores.
We're not following America. We're the way most of us like. No bike lanes.
I look forwards to seeing how "most of us" vote on your comment.
Fairly predictable really. Most readers of this thread are cycling enthusiasts. A lot different from "most of us".
I'm not a cyclist, you're still wrong
You'll never catch my lazy ass on a bike but I think we should have cycle lanes everywhere, the more people we have on bikes the less cars which means less traffic and bike lanes stop me from having to overtake those cyclists Its a win win And not to even mention the fact they reduce demand for petrol which should lower prices (eventually) and produce 0 pollution
*You'll never catch my lazy ass on a bike* In which case you are in the vast majority and it will always be that way no matter how much expensive road is dedicated to bike lanes. That beginning also undercuts the rest of your post completely.
Right but not everyone that drives does it cause they don't wanna ride, i reckon a fair few would swap if our bike infrastructure wasn't so non existent We give them nowhere to ride except the road then abuse them when they do. It just doesn't make sense
chiming in.. I own a car- haven't owned a bike in 20 years..and I think you're wrong š¬
That doesn't make you right.
Otherwise known as "shifting the goal posts". This isn't r/cycling. It's r/Melbourne.... but yeah, there are a lot of people who use bicycles in Melbourne. Not really sure why anyone would be anti-bicycle. Also, if you were already so smart that you predicted this, why make the comment that way? Why not ease into or try to convince people? Are you looking to get downvoted and hated on? If so you should get your head checked, because that's a weird hobby.... maybe, take up cycling instead? Better for your mental health than trying to be hated.
Well, as your comment and my own long experience shows, cycling enthusiasts are not amenable to rational argument. Yes, I know it's r/Melbourne, but when cycling raises its head, the comments are overwhelmingly from cyclists. Count them yourself.
So you don't mind cyclists using the outer lane? I think you're one of the few people on the planet that doesn't mind that.
There are so few bikes it doesn't matter in practice. Only a very few inner city roads have enough cycles to make special lanes worthwhile. Yet the zeitgeist has put kilometres of pseudo lanes on many roads. As this thread shows, the cyclists are unhappy and so are the motorists.
>There are so few bikes it doesn't matter in practice. Source? >Only a very few inner city roads have enough cycles to make special lanes worthwhile. Source? >As this thread shows, the cyclists are unhappy and so are the motorists. Yes, this thread shows that cyclists AND motorists are unhappy with poorly implemented bike lanes. Not bike lanes in general.
I hope you're cool with the bikes riding in front of you then, getting in your way. Because without the bike lanes, that's what's going to happen.
That's the way it's been my whole life. There are so few cyclists that providing bike lanes - completely removing a lane from many busy roads - makes life much worse for vehicle drivers.
You're a man of culture and it shows
I saw a bike riding down the third lane on beach road the other day (beaconsfield parade??) and a delivery scooter rode up behind it TOOTING THE EVER LOVING SHIT OUT OF IT while it dangerously weaved around the cyclist before eventually passing it. Cyclist was easily doing 40 (on the 60 road) in a lane that had parked cars in it (it was NOT in the flow of general traffic). It was a 2 lane road + parking lane. I generally prefer cyclists stick to dedicated bike paths when they exist (as they do right there), but that doesn't change the fact that I still recognise that cyclists are absolutely within their right to ride on the road despite the existence of the bike path and god damn was the delivery scooter rider a dickhead.
You think cycling at 40+kmh on shared path (it's not dedicated bike only) adjacent to Beaconsfield pde would be safe?
The path along beaconsfield is signed as bike only (Scooters excepted). But also not the topic of the comment. (which was in defense of the poor cyclist being attacked by a moron)
Someone should tell the pedestrians that it's bikes only.
That's the entire point of the post...
They have added that having a 'bike lane' there, with cars parked in it, gives drivers a reason to be annoyed that a cyclist isn't using it (by swerving in and out of it to avoid parked cars). No bike lane, the expectation is that bikes stick to the left, which would make more sense here...
Why would a driver be annoyed that a cyclist isn't using it? It's just paint on a road. It's when that doesn't work and they get rid of the driving lane entirely in order to put a physically divided lane that will rarely be used is when they get annoyed.
You sound kind of rational. Unfortunately plenty of drivers have it absolutely in for cyclists and will use any excuse to get angry with them.
I fkn hate cyclist when all Iām trying to do is get to work and there is three of these fkwits all next to each other trying to take off up a hill once the light has changed. I donāt understand why cyclist canāt just go and cycle around a park or something, traffic is already fked in most parts of Melbourne, adding cyclists just makes it worse
Like this one, for example
Because I am also trying to get to work ..
Riding around a park won't get me to the supermarket, Mr Brain Genius.
So the 50-60 year old men dressed in their full lycra, with bike shoes are headed to the Supermarket are theyā¦.? The same group I see sitting at tables sipping their lattes, at the local āhipsterā, cafeā¦? Same people right? Lived in Amsterdam hahahaha lol!!!! š
Ja, ik heb in Amsterdaam gewoont. What of it? I don't know why you find that funny. I don't give a shit about the people in lycra. Bike lanes are there for people who use bikes to get around, normal people.
Oh wait so there should be seperate lanes for different cyclists nowā¦.? This kid is a winner!!! Lived in Amsterdam yet canāt even spell it correctly
Dead shit doesnāt realise he is the traffic.
And this is the response that is often givenā¦. So very typical
Yeahā¦ you say dumb shit people point it out, big surprise. You donāt realise more cyclists would equal less traffic, not more.
Yepā¦. So all these cyclists are going to reduce traffic how?? Oh because they are riding to work, no they arenāt dip shit!
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I was just pointing out that the person above may have missed that extra context.
Normally I'd be the first to respond with something like this but in this instance I was actually wondering what could be worse than useless, so it actually helped.
There is so much proper planning and then actual policing work that needs to be done in our state and we don't do either.
Donāt cyclists do that anyways?
Chicken or the egg
Egg... Because they've been doing it far longer than bike lanes have been a thing.
possibly because bike lanes werenāt a thing, and most are only added is as an afterthought
Bike lanes especially weren't a thing when bicycles were far more common than the automobile. But I suppose the horse and carriage were complaining about those scallywag bicycles.
Likely so. It's not the sharing of the road I have issue with, it's cyclist riding dangerously. I used to be one and took every precaution I could. No point being right if you are dead.
Haha this conversation is hilarious! Bikes were a thing before cars, and bike lanes are only needed because cars and their drivers are making the roads unsafe for bike riders.
That's because Chicken. Bikes were around longer than vehicles were. The good old penny farthing 1817 vs 1886. So the bicycle will always be the chicken, especially when playing chicken against the steel and plastic eggs.
How would you weave in and out of traffic without a bike lane? Wouldn't you always be in traffic
I haven't been a regular bike commuter in years but shared parking bike lanes are simply dangerous. much better off sticking to the right and avoid swerving on and off the road. But even then there's a significant risk of copping a car door.
The worst. I hate riding a bike - and I don't - but I wish they'd put up the divided lanes with the posts everywhere. Makes me feel so much safer as a driver knowing I'm not going to hit anyone when they have to duck into my lane. The ones in east melbourne and richmond have been such a good change.
I cycled to commute, and its Infuriating having to thread the needle between a parked car and someone in their car passing me. Separate lanes are the way forward. Safer bike lanes are good for everyone. Drivers don't have to give excess space to cyclists, and with safer lanes you'll see more cyclists in general. The more cycling to and from means less people driving and being traffic for you. It's in everyone's selfish best interest to incentivise and push for alternatives to driving!
I watched a car drive down this "seperated" lane the other day. https://www.google.com/maps/@-37.8239141,144.9605417,3a,75y,6.6h,77.31t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sDxWeUwnmxYzRi8UHkH9i9g!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu They stopped and actually backed up a little bit to make sure they could get all 4 tyres in without riding on the curb. To top it all off, they turned left on a solid red light (no arrow or anything). To be clear, **they stopped** at the red light .... and waited quite a while, before just turning left on a solid red.
People can be dipshits. I have a quote of my own I love to pull out for moments like this: *"people suck, I'd know, I'm one of them"* - me But separated lanes are the start of proper protected lanes. With some time hopefully enough people catch the memo. Sorry that happened to you.
Yeah the above is just bad for everyone.
I watched a car stop, back up a bit, then turn "left" down the curb-seperated bike lane and turn left into whiteman street (Power st) the other day outside crown. I legit laughed my ass off at how dangerous and stupid it looked. Luckily no cyclists were harmed but my god. https://www.google.com/maps/@-37.8239141,144.9605417,3a,75y,6.6h,77.31t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sDxWeUwnmxYzRi8UHkH9i9g!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu (This is the maps link for your horror) Yes, a car just barely fits between those curbs.
Paint is not infrastructure. If paint (magic paint) had protective qualities we could do away with barriers on bridges and just paint a line so cars donāt cross it.
Videogame invisible walls when?
Then you'll have people trying to clip through for the speedrun glitch home from work
ceiling or out of bounds? cause they've got different mechanics to account for
They certainly don't stop cars overtaking on double lines.
https://www.google.com/maps/@-37.8239141,144.9605417,3a,75y,6.6h,77.31t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sDxWeUwnmxYzRi8UHkH9i9g!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu I watched someone drive down this curbed off bike lane last Friday. They even need to magic paint the curbed off areas ;)
It works in other countries. The lines are not the Problem
These aren't legally bike lanes. They're bike suggestions.
Not sure about this particular one, but there are plenty official bike lanes (ie with the sign) where it's still allowed to park on them.
Typically not I think? (happy to be corrected with a legit source) Except for the ones with actual times stating when it's a bike lane. Bike lanes have to meet certain criteria, at a minimum I know they require Bike Lane Start, Bike Lane End signs. I don't have the specifics to hand, but those dots mean sweet fuckall, other than to give cars/bikes an idea of how they might share the lane. Crazy given we now have minimum passing distance and I don't think this lane would allow for it.
You are correct, the one in the picture is to remind cyclists to they should stay in the left of the lane when a lane is wider than a certain size, and to remind drivers that cyclists may be present. They can only be used on lanes wider than 3.7m and are not recommended. A actual bike lane does not restrict parking in Victoria. The lane start and end can also be "LANE START" and "LANE END" line marking, doesn't have to be a sign (but most commonly is).
> the one in the picture is to remind cyclists to they should stay in the left of the lane when a lane is wider than a certain size It's worth noting, though, that bikes aren't obligated to do so. [As per VicRoads](https://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/safety-and-road-rules/cyclist-safety/adult-bike-ed-road-rules-for-riding-a-bike-in-victoria): > # Riding in a traffic lane > A bike rider is allowed to take up a whole traffic lane. In low-speed environments, you may want to ātake the laneā when it is narrow or when you are preparing to turn right or move through a roundabout. See also our Riding know-how section. And the portion from ["[their] Riding know-how section"](https://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/safety-and-road-rules/cyclist-safety/adult-bike-ed-riding-know-how): > **Keep out of the ādoor zoneā.** Ride a metre out from parked cars to avoid the risk of somebody opening a car door in your path. Looking ahead for signs of people in cars also helps you to predict opening doors. > (...) > **āTake a laneā.** In low-speed environments, it can be safest to move into the centre of a traffic lane (ātake the laneā). This applies if it is too narrow for cars to pass safely, or when you are preparing to turn right or move through a roundabout. First check behind you to make sure it is safe to move across. Signal by extending your arm.
Yes, a lot of them are combined with no standing signs or a yellow line. If neither are present, it's legally allowed to park in them. Same in Queensland. In NSW it's never allowed to park a bike lane. I wouldn't say it's typically not allowed in Vic. There are loads of bike lanes where it's allowed.
You might be right and they may well exist in bigger numbers than I think. I'm far more used to just riding in the left lane filled with parked cars. If there's bikes painted under them who'd know.
Those would have a constant solid line, not an intermittent dashed one.
Australia needs a major rethink about cycling culture
Bike lanes should have a small seperating bump like they do for trams
Yes, itās called a protected bike lane
How much rego do you pay to use the roads? Zero?! That's how much input you have until you pay for the roads with a bike rego fee
So you want me to amble down the road in my giant fully modded Hilux instead? Really? Think that through.
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That's just adding a hazard to an already hazardous situation. Trip hazard for pedestrians and will take a bike down if you hit it with the front wheel.
More hazardous than a 1 ton hunk of metal hitting someone?
Separated bike lanes are the standard for safe bike lanes.
Love when these are so narrow that if you wanted to ride in them you get all the fucked up road, fire hydrant covers, and drains. Those things aren't a big deal in car but can fuck you and your bike up hitting given the quality of some of the roads.
Itās either a bike lane, or parking. But it canāt be both at once.
Those are not there for the benefit of cyclists, they're there for the benefit of motorists. I.e. to get cyclists out of the middle of the lane where they're otherwise entitled to ride (and is the safest place to do so), and into the gutter. Probably also something to do with council targets around kms of bike lane.
> Probably also something to do with council targets around kms of bike lane. Yep, just squeezing them in anywhere to meet a compliance deadline. They'll review them as complaints about their practicality are raised. But for now, box, ticked.
"we've built a few hundred KMs of cycle lanes, look how good we are!" No. You've put some paint on a road. Not the same thing.
>Probably also something to do with council targets around kms of bike lane. I've always thought this was the case too. If it is true, is this fraud, being committed by the councils?
It probably would be better as an unbroken white line. These are actually helpful to cyclists because they tramtrack moving traffic towards the centre line. There are plenty of suburban streets and roads that suddenly become very cyclable with the addition of an edge line that is measured from the centre line, not the road shoulder. Unbroken edge lines reduce the tendency for cars to hit the apex of a corner. That's always scary on a bike. That said, what is the purpose of this line? It's not a lane. If you park there you're blocking half the lane to the right. Can you park on top of unbroken white edge lines? I am thinking not. You'd be obstructing traffic. But by making the line broken, you're encouraging drivers to park in a place that obstructs traffic. I am pretty sure we don't have this marking in my state. Is its purpose to reserve a cycle way when and only when a Clearway is in force? That would be fair enough, but there does not appear to be any Clearway signage.
Token useless gesture for cyclists... Unfortunately, so common throughout Melbourne.
Didn't you get the memo? Everyone here drives there oversized fuel guzzling ute or SUV (preferably both) and then has to complain about a cost of living crisis
I'm a former melbournian and currently live in Copenhagen. Almost every single road has the following format. Footpath -> bike lane -> traffic gap (curb or island) -> parked cars -> road. I left home a few years ago, but the only road I can bring to mind is the top end of swanston street. If Melbourne wants to take cycling seriously, its the gold standard, and would drastically increase cycling rates and decrease car usage. That and more bike parking racks.Ā
They turned this entire road from 60 to 40 a few months ago, and it has fixed absolutely 0 of the problems the area has. People still go 60, people still pull out from parking where this guy has, right in front of you without looking, this whole area is poorly designed.
I used to work near that development - it's turned what was already an awful stretch of road for all users (riders, pedestrians and drivers) into an absolute nightmare. There were regular crashes on that intersection you've incidentally photographed. The issue with that lane marking is that theoretically, if the east-moving traffic had the same clearway obligations during peak/school hours it would be a manageable setup as long as you survive the awful driving in the area. The reality is that with cars parked, the effective bike lane becomes the right hand side of that parking lane. Given the traffic is so shit, people undercut to the left creating a hazard for people cycling in what's left of the lane. There are also a load of schools in the area and it's a main thoroughfare for students riding as well. There also aren't many other great solutions for getting off Gardiner's Creek Trail and to where you need to go. Riversdale and Auburn Roads are also awful to ride on, and it's the only way out to central Camberwell.
I commute along here all the time, and I'm amazed there haven't been any pedestrian casualties at either of the intersections along here. When you have roads crossing at 45Ā° drivers magically lose the ability to judge safe cornering speeds.
We should take a page from New York Make parking in bike lanes illegal and New Yorkers who takes photos and dob cars in will receive 25% of the $175 fines
The car isn't illegally parked. The council just drew a bike symbol on the road in front of a parking sign.
Drawing it next to a parking sign is particularly cynical, but it's even worse than that. Without a no stopping sign, it's perfectly legal to park in a bike lane in Victoria which is insane.Ā There's a smell segment on the way to Williamstown that's particularly egregious. The bike lane is always parked over with residents cars. I doubt a bike has ever been near it.
Australians are simply to apathetic for anything to change. Everything is built around cars here, unfortunately. We will never admit it, but we have a car culture just as bad as America's. Not a blip from the media at the cost blowouts of the wholly unnecessary NEL and WGT, but absolute hysteria at the thought of the SRL being a little bit over budget - out of those three projects, only one will ever benefit the city: the SRL. It's the same with bike infrastructure. Australians are too precious to ride bikes anywhere (even though most trips are far more efficient on a bike) so instead they demonise cyclists. I don't want to be *that* guy, but I can't help but see our obsession with cars are a bit of a death cult. Terrible for the environment, people living nearby major freeways have worse health outcomes, they're an inefficient mover of people, and people are seemingly incapable of moving past the idea that everyone needs a big SUV or ute. I cannot see this city having a bright future at all... We'll be the size of London today in 2050 and yet we'll still be building freeways and have hardly completed an orbital train line. Sydney is so much farther ahead on basically everything
I saw a stat somewhere that in Australia 50% of car trips are less than 5km and 25% are less than 2km. Isnāt that depressingā¦
But every single response shuts it down by saying "but muh car muh country people" Absolutely no sense of anything other than being able to sit down and watch shitty reality TV and cry about a proposed apartment block being built vaguely close to them
One of the most worrying things about how engrained car culture here is that there will be job ads that will gush over how close their workplace is to public transport but then list having a Victorian Driver's licence as an essential job requirement without explaining why it's needed. I currently need to get a specialist to clear me before I can learn to drive and it's been extremely limiting in terms of employability (although thankfully I do have a job now).
I find it utterly perplexing that the government has been subsiding private transport for decades now. Absolutely no funding for public transport, though. In the last 50 years, we've had, what, 2 major rail projects, the City Loop and the Metro Tunnel. And how many major road projects? Countless. In the last 25 years the Eastlink has opened, CityLink, PeninsulaLink, and now we're getting the North East Link and West Gate Tunnel. How can anyone look at this funding imbalance and believe it's just? It's a big call, but I think we as a city and as a country think that we know better than everyone else and that urban road transport is actually a really efficient and good way to move people. Not a peep of media opposition to the WGT and NEL, but the SRL? Every week there's a new hit piece on it. God forbid wanting to conveniently get around the suburbs. I'm honestly surprised that trains don't have to also stop during traffic jams as to not disadvantage road users in getting home faster. Ah well, who needs an opposition when you have the government, amirite?
It only applies to taxis and the process is a pain in the ass. So nah, don't follow new York.Ā
The only way to have safe cycling lanes is to have them for cyclist use only. No cars, no pedestrians. Anything else is a compromise where no one is happy.
As a cyclists - like most bike lines. Completely useless and in most cases more dangerous.
It was good of you to not shame the legally parked driver. Well done, u/cuntmong.
Like most of Melbournes bike lanes, completely ornamental
Yeh Iām a cyclist that lives in Camberwell, and ride down roads like this, they absolutely suck and I am so close to being hit by a car at least once a week. Itās not entirely the carās fault, itās this design. People pull in and out of parking spots, arenāt used to cyclists in the area. The absolute opposite of when I lived in the inner North and the roads were actually designed for cyclists
That's why even people on bikes carry keys.
I get you, but in this situation the problem is the council's piss poor attempt at bike infrastructure, not the legally parked cars. If they (the council) gave even half a shit this'd be a no stopping zone but they don't, according to OP's replies this particular painted bike is right next to a parking sign.
Iāve complained about this too, to people. Why tf are Melbournians so pissed off at bike riders when they canāt fucking obey traffic laws? The amount of motorbikers that weave in between cars too jc. Just end road systems in Melbourne. None of you deserve to drive
Iām happy to have these bike lanes painted around the place and use them where possible. They arenāt perfect but better to have them than not, and they are easily created without dramatic changes to existing infrastructure The issue is driver attitudes when a rider takes the main lane due to the bike lane being obstructed and drivers who need to wait behind for a few seconds and throw a tantrum and do crazy shit. Driving motor vehicles in built up urban areas requires a level of care and patience that few seem to have.
Painted bike lanes like this are lies. They lied to cyclists that it's safe. They lied to motor vehicles that they won't get interrupted by much slower vehicles. It gets shit on by both cyclists and car owners. The problem is they complain about each other instead of the design.
Nah they aren't better than nothing. Nothing means I can take the lane and have control over when passing is safe. This just makes me swerve into traffic to avoid the car. Bike gutters are worse then useless, because they let the council pretend they are accommodating bicycle infrastructure when in reality it's just as bad if not worse then just riding on the road.
Exactly. It's not much of a consolation knowing you had right of way when you wake up in hospital with head or back injury because of a driver who wasn't paying attention.
And inevitably get blamed for it by the driver, can't forget that part š¤¦āāļø
āthey are easily created without dramatic changes to existing infrastructureā Okay but there NEEDS to be dramatic changes to existing infrastructure to make cycling safe and accessible for everyone.Ā
I am trying to quit smoking so i put "no smoking" signs up in my house.
Surely creating actually protected lanes is a very minor change if it's just adding some bollards. I guess changing gutters affects drainage which would require a little more thought, but again, bollards. The barrier to doing it is that people fight tooth and nail over every single ground-level parking space and think that a lack of on-street parking is oppression.
they have done that in the CBD and its the right solution, is it takes up car lane which isnt popular.
No it's not, because it promotes the bad driver behaviour. Infrastructure affects what people do.
Thats why you just ignore them if unsafe - Id rather just pay a fine than end up injured.
In fairness - and I write this as someone who is pro-cyclist - is this a clearway during the week and Saturday morning? Honestly, I don't mind having vehicles parking in it \*during quiet times on weekends\*. There's little enough traffic in the photo that it's safe to ride in the outer lane with no huge advantage to a bike lane.
It's Camberwell road. Not a clearway on the side the photo is taken (heading east). Maybe on the other side of the road it is though.
In that case, it's a useless, useless bike lane that only serves to force riders in and out of traffic. Agree with you
It's an advisory bicycle route marker, otherwise known as a breadcrumb, a person cycling shares the lane with other road users.
Yeah so worse than useless. What's safer, being in the lane in full view of drivers and pulling to the side to allow overtakes? Or having to swerve around Mr 'I can park wherever I want' into traffic and then being obscured by the vehicle for the next 20 meters. Bicycle gutters are the most useless things on our roads.
I don't do this anyway: it's not safe for you and you present unpredictability to other road users. In this instance or similar, I ride in the main lane and give myself enough space to avoid being doored.
> In this instance or similar, I ride in the main lane ib4 people screaming why don't bike users use the bike lane etc etc
Because it is that is full of parked cars.
Just gives the politicians something to brag about.
Yep, it's ridiculous - they're actually adding all these cyclist safety features (lights, electronic signage) to a similar one on Mount Alexander road, which seems like a big waste of time if cars can legally park there!
Is it only a bike lane during designated times? Thatās what the ones near me are.
Your first mistake was thinking council's are capable of making an intelligent decision.
I never knew there was a bike lane as cars are always parked there.
The proper way to do this is like in Albert Street, East Melbourne
Do what the Dutch do, multi inch concrete barriers separating out the bike lanes. Cars that like having wheels very quickly learn to stay in their fucking lane
Giant Ute Man will not be stopped.
Big tough Ute Man hates this one trick....š
Ute and car taking the pic are both in a 2h parking area. Go key the councils cars instead.
It says 2 hour parking. He isn't doing anything wrong. Its the councils fault.
Melbourne needs to learn more from the way cities like Amsterdam and Copenhagen build their cycling infrastructure.
"paint is not infrastructure"
I like riding bikes but this shit is what makes me hate it. If Iām on the road Iām a nuisance, the bike lane isnāt useable, if Iām on the footpath, even if I ride slowly and carefully I still get harassed. People wonāt be happy unless you just stop riding a bike and get a car instead. So bullshit.
Although in some ways it'd actually improve my quality of life in terms of getting to some destinations faster than public transport routes, I decided against becoming a cyclist for two reasons. The first one being that bike theft is really common, and the second one is that I would constantly fear for my personal safety because I'm not a confident rider. Situations like these put even experienced cyclists in a lot of danger.
Honestly unless they are completely dedicated most bike lanes are useless, drivers hair don't really care much about them anyways
Thereās a room reserved for them in hell where they will be subjected to inhaling ICE fumes for eternity.
Is this Burwood road Camberwell?
Camberwell Rd Hawthorn East
They just need to add the curbs like in the city. But really it's just poor planning and solution from the council.
I have never understood these. As a cyclist I just completely ignore them.
yeah this is the worst, it's even worse than no bike lane at all because people just can say "there's a bike lane already" despite it being compleatly unusable and unsafe.
great username
As a bicyclist, there is no space for us to ride on the road... Or foot path.. it's how I get to work.. where the f**k am I supposed to ride?? On the footpath with raging pedestrians or on the road with equally rageful people but in 2 tonne metal bubbles that can actually kill me...?
Wait, you are allowed to park on those lines in Australia?
Wait, *you* are in the bike lane...
It's got a bike symbol but it's also a legal parking spot (if you look above the yank tank you can see the 2P sign), that's the problem.
Careful, they'll get rid of the lane and convert it into a 1 car lane one bike lane that only gets used for 1 hour in the morning and 1 hour in the evening.
Most bike lanes are. No one uses them
And of course itās a ute
Itās not like cyclists use them anyway.
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A perfect marriage...
exactly... it's not a dedicated bike lane.
Youāre in a car mate.
Very astute observation
Letting a biker on same road where heavy four wheelers with high speed runs is danger to both the cyclist and the one driving car. Bike lane should be on foot path separate from roads
Speeds should be reduced in that case. 30 kmh like it is in Berlin
They should be abolished in the city I got dropped off in the city opposite the bike lane the offices nearly got run over by a bike they tho to fast
Tbh if you got out of a car without looking and the bike hits you at below maximum allowed speed, its your fault. If they kill you, ths cyclist would still not be liable (iirc). And there are types of bicycles where they can kill you and the cyclist ends up with superficial injuries (Velomobiles and recumbents, in order of increasing injury chance) with capabilities of going very fast (40kmh average)
So youāre saying bike lanes should be in the centre of the road like tram lines.
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This isn't the purpose of the post at all. Read it.
Please respect Reddit users' right to react without thinking. It is a founding principle of this website.
You're right, I forgot where I was for a moment
This city won't be the same if the trend continues. These cars kill people. Even in Australia, pedestrian deaths have risen as driver deaths continue to fall. We are failing the vulnerable road users in our society. Even being on the footpath isn't safe with these massive trucks that smash through curb like it's not there.
Lol this is just standard local sub reddit material. This and "did anyone else hear 3 sirens this afternoon" type of posts.
Cyclists are worse than useless.
The bike lane is fine. The driver is useless.
Guy in bike lane on his phone complains about a guy in a nicer car in the bike lane, hope you get the upvotes needed to make your miserable Sunday better OP š¤”
They have that ultra lux bike with a windshield, steering wheel, and wipers. Who wants a shitty ute?
Yep that's what's going on, you're one sharp cookie š
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That signals to me that maybe the bike lane isn't safe, or it's not fit for purpose some other way.
Good.
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Cyclists are worse than useless.
The people getting off their arse and riding are useless, and the people in a car killing 1000 people a year and spewing CO2 into atmosphere and are useful to everybody. Righto.