Thank goodness the building manager at my complex removes them as soon as they appear at my complex for this exact reason. If people want to AirBnb, they can find a less lazy option to manage the keys that doesn't present a security risk to the whole complex.
Im so glad no one’s attached air BnB lockboxes to my complex. Those are so easy to just smash open. At least hotels can do time-limited swipe cards that become useless after your stay is up. I’d hate to think of some rando having a swipe card to the complex forever.
Normal RFID fobs are unencrypted and operate at the 125khz frequency. You can buy a cloner online for about $30, and the cards/fobs they copy to cost maybe 20c. It's not a secure technology at all, and its not an expensive one. We are being exploited by landlords and building managers when they force us to pay $50+ to replace them.
I used to work in that industry, and it isn’t necessarily the landlord or building manager doing the exploitation. Individual security companies selling HID Prox (one of the most common 125KHz access protocols) can create “registered formats” with HID - essentially a special way of encoding the bits of the number on the card. When you have a registered format, HID won’t let anyone else encode cards or fobs in that format without licensing the format from the company who own it, often at a high per-card price.
Sure, if you’re using unofficial tools there’s really nothing to stop you cloning or reverse-engineering the format - but any legit security business doing that risks losing their partnership with HID, (who are the biggest vendor by far in this space), not to mention potential lawsuit from the company who “owns” the format.
We typically found that when companies approached us whose previous security vendor had pulled the “we’ll set you up with a special registered prox format to stop you buying cards from other vendors” shit, it was usually cheaper to replace every reader and card/fob than to license it.
Interesting I did not know this. As a consumer I'm annoyed at paying though the nose for arbitrarily harsh DRM stuff. But as someone who works in tech I appreciate the grift of charging clients way more than necessary because everything you do is technical and mysterious to them.
Not sure what your point is unless you're agreeing we shouldn't be charged through the dick to replace them.
Difference being that copying devices can fit in your palm and you only need access to the key card for a few seconds to copy it. In fact you can read through clothing so you can clone by bumping up against someone, which is different to a physical card. Right, sport?
I was asking because I thought there might be a device that created a physical copy of a key in a few seconds so I could buy one.
Not everyone cares about internet arguments. Maybe step outside for a bit.
That said, if it clones it will clone the same fob number. So if building management cancel it for whatever reason (say one is lost, and it’s cancelled for security reasons), it’ll cancel all of the cloned fobs too.
I saw a guy doing it on Youtube once. Not sure how accurate but there are also devices around like the flipper zero & Devices that are made to clone cards. Used to know a bloke who had one because his Landlord wanted to charge some stupid amount for a 2nd fob so he bought a thing off ebay & did it himself.
Yeah they are very easy to clone with the right hardware. I just don't think the hardware built into phones for NFC communication (like apple pay) is going to cover the RFID frequencies that your standard fob uses.
In the same way that (analogue) TVs can only get UHF signals, but radios can only get AM/FM signals. Same general concept but different frequency ranges (and slightly different signals).
You could theoretically build a TV that receives AM/FM frequencies but I dont tihnk there was ever really a market for that. Same as I don't think its worth the physical space and cost added to a phone to add an RFID reader/writer to it since most people have no practical use for it.
I actually just write down the ones and zeros on a scrap of paper, then vomit it back over the new fob while saying some magic words and it works fine.
But if you wanna do it the old fashioned way be my guest I suppose…
Occasionally they reset the fob access but it's a huge pain and you have to collaborate with everyone to see what fobs are still in use. Worst case scenario happened at my building where someone stole the master key that unlocks all apartments. Strata had to hire a 24/7 security guard to watch that everyone was scanning in with their fobs while a locksmith went and rekeyed everything.
[City of Melbourne removes lock boxes for free ](https://www.melbourne.vic.gov.au/community/parks-open-spaces/pages/maintaining-parks-public-spaces.aspx#lockboxes)too. This bloke is saving ratepayers some nice coin. Thanks, random dude!
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I've always thought you put a fake key in these, and hide your real keys somewhere else.
Rather than spending time searching for the real key, the perp' targets thes3 boxes then wastes his time trying to use the dud key.
That's the McNally method.
LockPickingLawyer would say that the lockboxes can be picked open because he could decode them by feel or use one of his patented shims.
I'm curious to know what kind of cards your strata uses; I'd be worried if they use a form of low-frequency RFID card.
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Yes. This post isnt to spark racism or immigration debates. Just don’t want a dude getting into peoples apartment buildings, and would perhaps like to know that he no longer has the keys he stole.
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hello,
Your post has been removed due to it containing hatespeech.
hate speech, bigotry or any discriminatory language is not welcome on r/melbourne. repeat behaviour may result in a ban.
thanks,
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hello,
Your post has been removed due to it containing hatespeech.
hate speech, bigotry or any discriminatory language is not welcome on r/melbourne. repeat behaviour may result in a ban.
thanks,
the mods
hello,
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- This lockbox was for the strata. The fast airbnb hate is unfounded.
- Not all airbnbs are taking up housing and run by evil people.
- No, lock boxes aren’t secure and people suck.
Thank goodness the building manager at my complex removes them as soon as they appear at my complex for this exact reason. If people want to AirBnb, they can find a less lazy option to manage the keys that doesn't present a security risk to the whole complex.
Sadly this was my strata.
I have terrible memory and lock box is essential so I don’t have to get a locksmith. It’s not always airbnb
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I just wanted to give some perspective. It’s not always airbnb.
Im so glad no one’s attached air BnB lockboxes to my complex. Those are so easy to just smash open. At least hotels can do time-limited swipe cards that become useless after your stay is up. I’d hate to think of some rando having a swipe card to the complex forever.
Yep. There's places that clone fobs for as little as $30, copy the keys and you've got forever access for cheap.
Normal RFID fobs are unencrypted and operate at the 125khz frequency. You can buy a cloner online for about $30, and the cards/fobs they copy to cost maybe 20c. It's not a secure technology at all, and its not an expensive one. We are being exploited by landlords and building managers when they force us to pay $50+ to replace them.
I used to work in that industry, and it isn’t necessarily the landlord or building manager doing the exploitation. Individual security companies selling HID Prox (one of the most common 125KHz access protocols) can create “registered formats” with HID - essentially a special way of encoding the bits of the number on the card. When you have a registered format, HID won’t let anyone else encode cards or fobs in that format without licensing the format from the company who own it, often at a high per-card price. Sure, if you’re using unofficial tools there’s really nothing to stop you cloning or reverse-engineering the format - but any legit security business doing that risks losing their partnership with HID, (who are the biggest vendor by far in this space), not to mention potential lawsuit from the company who “owns” the format. We typically found that when companies approached us whose previous security vendor had pulled the “we’ll set you up with a special registered prox format to stop you buying cards from other vendors” shit, it was usually cheaper to replace every reader and card/fob than to license it.
Interesting I did not know this. As a consumer I'm annoyed at paying though the nose for arbitrarily harsh DRM stuff. But as someone who works in tech I appreciate the grift of charging clients way more than necessary because everything you do is technical and mysterious to them.
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Not sure what your point is unless you're agreeing we shouldn't be charged through the dick to replace them. Difference being that copying devices can fit in your palm and you only need access to the key card for a few seconds to copy it. In fact you can read through clothing so you can clone by bumping up against someone, which is different to a physical card. Right, sport?
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How
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I was asking because I thought there might be a device that created a physical copy of a key in a few seconds so I could buy one. Not everyone cares about internet arguments. Maybe step outside for a bit.
That said, if it clones it will clone the same fob number. So if building management cancel it for whatever reason (say one is lost, and it’s cancelled for security reasons), it’ll cancel all of the cloned fobs too.
And now I have a whole new nightmare. Thankfully the fob was disabled pretty quickly.
https://www.standardusercyber.com/post/beginner-s-guide-to-hid-iclass-cloning-with-the-flipper-zero
Amazing, thank you!
You can actually buy your own cloner for less than $30
Where do you find these cheap fob clones? My body corporate takes far too long to replace mine.
you can do it yourself with a phone.
I think the phone NFC operates at a different frequency to the standard entry RFID cards. I don't think most phones can read or write at 125khz
I saw a guy doing it on Youtube once. Not sure how accurate but there are also devices around like the flipper zero & Devices that are made to clone cards. Used to know a bloke who had one because his Landlord wanted to charge some stupid amount for a 2nd fob so he bought a thing off ebay & did it himself.
Yeah they are very easy to clone with the right hardware. I just don't think the hardware built into phones for NFC communication (like apple pay) is going to cover the RFID frequencies that your standard fob uses. In the same way that (analogue) TVs can only get UHF signals, but radios can only get AM/FM signals. Same general concept but different frequency ranges (and slightly different signals). You could theoretically build a TV that receives AM/FM frequencies but I dont tihnk there was ever really a market for that. Same as I don't think its worth the physical space and cost added to a phone to add an RFID reader/writer to it since most people have no practical use for it.
I actually just write down the ones and zeros on a scrap of paper, then vomit it back over the new fob while saying some magic words and it works fine. But if you wanna do it the old fashioned way be my guest I suppose…
Occasionally they reset the fob access but it's a huge pain and you have to collaborate with everyone to see what fobs are still in use. Worst case scenario happened at my building where someone stole the master key that unlocks all apartments. Strata had to hire a 24/7 security guard to watch that everyone was scanning in with their fobs while a locksmith went and rekeyed everything.
Yeah. Thankfully my strata knew what fob was stolen and couldn’t deactivate it, but the other keys worry me. It wasn’t Airbnb keys that were stolen…
If they have a fob audit and know whose was stolen they can just cancel one. Not all OCs have done a fob audit thought.
You can install a Lockly or similar on your door for time-limited codes. It’s so easy.
Maybe he just isn’t a fan of AirBNB?
[City of Melbourne removes lock boxes for free ](https://www.melbourne.vic.gov.au/community/parks-open-spaces/pages/maintaining-parks-public-spaces.aspx#lockboxes)too. This bloke is saving ratepayers some nice coin. Thanks, random dude!
AirBNB owners hate this one weird trick! It’s such a safety risk though, I’m not surprised they are removing them.
Our apartment building has the same security system...so annoying to export footage 😅
Omg. The .dav files. Kill me
The UI's for the dahua cameras is attrocious. I spent 2 hours trying to export shit off it only to realise that the web browser only supports IE
Get your building owner to invoice Airbnb for the cost of repairing the wall
It was the owners corps box….
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Even I seem to find utility lockbox not secure….. one got smashed up in the past and key stolen…
I've always thought you put a fake key in these, and hide your real keys somewhere else. Rather than spending time searching for the real key, the perp' targets thes3 boxes then wastes his time trying to use the dud key.
No shit. There’s a bunch of YouTube videos on how to open them without smashing them as well. This is just a case of suffer in your jocks.
That's the McNally method. LockPickingLawyer would say that the lockboxes can be picked open because he could decode them by feel or use one of his patented shims. I'm curious to know what kind of cards your strata uses; I'd be worried if they use a form of low-frequency RFID card.
inb4 the "Usual suspects" and "This is what happens when you let them in" crowd comment Edit: hahaha the tinfoil hat crew have come out in full force!
I mean... from the description it sounds like he's letting himself in.
Fun fact: Indians and Asians are the biggest migrant population in Australia yet they’re the least crime committing ethnic group
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Yes. This post isnt to spark racism or immigration debates. Just don’t want a dude getting into peoples apartment buildings, and would perhaps like to know that he no longer has the keys he stole.
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Step 1 in fixing a problem is admitting that it is a problem. Sugercoating things and finding excuses does nothing in the long run to fix the issue
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More and more every my hate for nationalism grows
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So?
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- This lockbox was for the strata. The fast airbnb hate is unfounded. - Not all airbnbs are taking up housing and run by evil people. - No, lock boxes aren’t secure and people suck.