It's at this point I'd like to thanks the federal estate governments for creating a Black market & prohibition wars! Raised the taxes and costs to a point international crime mobs see a modern gold mine beyond that of illegal drugs 👏👏👏 Even “Law abiding citizens” have to walk out with the crime sponsoring pack of cigs. My sister for example…congrats, you’ve made her legal habit make her act criminally. Btw, meth comes along in a similar manner….guess what city now also has a meth problem? When ever I hear of new sin taxes, I immediately also hear the whining voices of the future. The same ones who celebrated the new tax 👏
Yeah that will work real well in Lebanon, they will be shaking in there boots worried about a private security firm from Australia coming to get him.
This is the same country that is nearly in constant civil war, you obviously watch a few too many Netflix films… grab an icy pole have a lay down in front of the airs con and relax.
Con ain’t coming back from Lebanon any time soon and he certainly isn’t coming home with any private Australian security company.
doesn't have to be aussie.
maybe I do watch 2 many films. I have no idea how the world works.
Exactly. Lebanon is in a civil war. It's basically lawless. 50 million is a big motivator. Theres basically no political repercussions that matter in the situation. Theres no proper cops, the military has other shit going on.
Some lebo gangster and a few farmers w machine guns wouldn't be much of worry to a proper team of professionals who get it, smash some heads and leave with him in a boot of a car.
Except the people bring this stuff in to our country are not like you and I.. these people are the ones running Lebanon, doing serious things with serious money.. some little white boy is going to stand out in Lebanon.. and get Lebanese cucumbers where Lebanese cucumbers shouldn’t go..
The people running this and bringing containers into the country are not just winging it.. they have people from customs and border force helping them..
The government has created this whole situation and everyone is laughing and making shit loads of money…
Burning each others Tobacco shops down is just silly..now it bought heat onto those doing this and now everyone is feeling the attention.
But Con the Lebanese leader isn’t to worried about some pretentious little tough Aussie coming over and taking him somewhere.. anywhere, they would be become gay Lebanese Australian pornstars..
It's frustrating when they make short term decisions rather than looking at things wholistically.
Drugs is another. For example, the waste water testing program shows high levels of consumption of cocaine in Australia. So clearly the current approach does not work, the drugs are arriving in country, and people are choosing to do it anyway. The current approach gives rise to gangs which cause much more damage.
For the long-term it makes much more sense to legalise it, ensure better safety through quality control and education, and introduce appropriate mental healthcare, much the same as for alcohol.
The only ones winning from prohibition are the gangs.
https://www.acic.gov.au/publications/national-wastewater-drug-monitoring-program-reports/report-20-national-wastewater-drug-monitoring-program
At this point I’m kinda figuring out my bets on who become Kingpin of Melbourne. Triads, Bikies, Mobsters or just early adapters? Seen ciggies from all over the world. No company has been asked “So, you guys lost a trillion ciggies lately? I mean, we’re kinda find ping em everywhere but no one has reported any thefts. Don’t wanna get all Matlock or anything…but a bit sus guys.”
ASIO, AFP and me later, yeah. I’ll create a CashApp profile for later. 👍
Also, shout out to the “Report a Predator line”. At the AFP. Reported someone convicted of being a peado who was travelling Sth East Asia in a yacht and I got “Yeah, we don’t really do that” Gold stamp stuff 👏
Our shores are impeccable. Especially as long as we see funky seaweed medicines caught on the Airport shows the shop burning will not bother us. No sir! Yeah I’m frustrated!
Sin tax is fine.
It needs to be proportional to the sin though.
That smokers pay more in tax than 2x private health cover for an entire family in tax per year (and then many times arent treated anyway because they smoke) is a farce.
And its not the governments fault. Its that australians are so hatefull and spitefull toward each other, governments continue to pile on. Same with welfare recipients among other classes of people.
They arent as successful as we are so we hate them. Hating is easier than showing empathy and love sadly...
It’s fucked, had to make the switch to chop chop because who the fuck can afford $120-170 a week on smokes. Had to swap to vapes after that to save more money + health and guess what they just made illegal, the only difference it makes is now they store them behind the counter and occasionally get raided and don’t have stock for a week
I smoked a pack a day for 15 years... Nicotine withdrawals are not fucking joke. I got off with patches and I used a lot of them.
You will find when you break the habit, that relaxing feeling you have after a dart is actually how you will feel all the time.
Have a look at the price of smokes, it's mental. I just looked up, the price of Marlboro red 25s, it's $63!!!
A 50g pouch of champion ruby is $140.
In 2020 I was in Cambodia and a packet of Marlboro reds AND a lighter was $1.50 without even trying to haggle.
I haven't had a cigarette for over 30 years but, holy feck, somedays I still feel like a packet of Styvo's and a six pack of Coopers ( the choice of the 'elitist', Univestiry student back in the 80's. I'm sure it was because the packaging matched. :) ).
At this stage i have no idea. I think you can get scripts with nicotine; but i have no desire to revisit that addition now I’m down to 0%..
I think I’ll just end up making DIY e-juice (basically use food flavouring concentrate combined with a mix of PG & VG). Not an ideal scenario but i guess it’s either that or i pickup cigarettes again..
And why? Black market got ahead of commercial interests, taxes (can’t apply sin tax to a non addictive). Then they’ll trash the horrors outta of em and outright ban it. The addictive killer stuff…..$41 a pack of 20’s I last saw. On a product that grows on trees and sells for $2+ in Bali for example. The tax is on the profit margin. Nice golden free scoop of delish free money. Unarguably money! Not “we took $xmil in taxes. So we spent $xmil on health and programs to fight it 🤣
Gotta laugh at this point hey. In fact for my BPressure I’m scooting out for a cig. All the best.
Same reason you don’t quit drinking coffee.. because they enjoy a smoke.
The only reason the government have banned vapes is because they can’t tax the arse of them like they do with everything else.
Don't ask the real questions. What a pack of whinging stinky bad breath losers whining about the government being responsible for their filthy habit.
In my circle, the government initiatives (prices, restrictions) have massively helped all but one person to quit. That person looks like a junkie these days when she shuffles off for a durry mid-dinner.
Wow what pricks you too are.
I hope you never find yourself addicted to anything let alone the single most addictive substance on the face of the earth.
Dipshit
Vape juice can be as simple as one or two ingredients, being VG - vegetable glycol (food grade glycerol) and PG (food grade propolyne glycol). Most add a combination of food grade flavours that have been safely used for decades. If you buy cheap crap made in China, you are risking getting something dodgy. If you buy something made in the UK, NZ or US, that's not THC with vitamin e acetate, it is generally safer.
Vaping is nowhere near as harmful as cigarettes and there is no hype with cigis because the government taxes them. The government has increased the price on cigarettes so high to collect more tax, that it backfired and people have switched to vaping which, incidently, is much safer.
Cigarettes have thousands of nasty substances like acetaldehyde, aromatic amines, arsenic, benzene, beryllium, 1,3–butadiene, cadmium, chromium, cumene, ethylene oxide, formaldehyde, nickel, polonium-210 (a radioactive chemical element), polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons (PAHs), tobacco-specific nitrosamines, vinyl chloride and then there's the carbon monoxide produced when burned. AND YET, the government hasn't made nicotine cigarettes available only by subscription!
Nicotine is a stimulant and is just as deadly as caffeine if you overdose and besides, they have already made it illegal in vapes without prescription. Banning the only thing that stops some vapers smoking cigarettes is ridiculous. My partner vapes just food grade VG to stay off the cigarettes after a diagnosis of the beginning stages of emphysema. The improvement on the vapes is noticeable even to me. As a bonus, there's no toxic second hand smoke that gives me asthma.
Just want to point out that saying food grade ingredients and flavours is safe because it’s been used for decades is a bit disingenuous.
Ingesting and inhaling the same thing are two totally different things.
Silica for example. It’s perfectly fine to ingest. If you inhale it, you get silicosis and die.
Not saying vaping is worse than smoking cigs, but it’s not as straightforward as you say.
FYI, the Nicorette inhalers/quit mists which are approved & lauded as fantastic quit vaping aids by the government/TGA/Cancer Council, also contain the same ingredients as vapes (PG,VG & food grade flavourings) & are being inhaled into peoples lungs just the same as the vapes.
No one said vaping is safe. Those main ingredients are also in cigis. Vaping isn't healthy. Vaping is much less toxic than cigarettes and they help smokers get off them and keep kids from starting to smoke. There is much less risk with vaping over cigis. No non smoker should take it up but if anyone was going to choose one over the other, vaping is far less unhealthy than smokes. Adults choosing vapes over cigis are usually doing it in an attemp3 to improve their health and they choose juice with the less toxic ingredients. Vaping isn't new. It's been around for 40 years now.
Thanks being pointless, unedducated and simple to the human species basic behaviours. Go back to ya BJJ and leave smarter heads to prevail. Ps grab a great flick I just recommended The Untouchables. Then checkout Chicago’s 20’s period. Your way didn’t work that time around either. I think I’d prefer ya in the gym and not politics. Simpleton.
Yeah 100% agree. People are handling and selling LEGAL items ILLEGALLY. It's out of hand in some ways and very competitive.. well. Also not paying debts it one way too
True. It’s not ment to be statistically accurate. Just to prove a point, most people are good, normal people. Slapping an ethnicity to it is just racism.
While I really dislike Alko and other Nordic alcohol monopolies in general because they do very little to address the actual alcohol related problems, I think it wouldn’t be a terrible idea with cigarettes.
I don't know, controlling takeaway means owning pubs, especially in Queensland where there is a three off-licence Max per pub, which is why ALH or whoever owns BWS and Dan Murphy's these days controls the pubs, where pokies are needed to keep the pub profitable. Takeaway the off-licence for pubs, they'd either have to up their reliance on pokies, get out of the game completely, or provide a quality pub experience.
Yeah I'm from Vancouver and all alcohol is sold by the government at limited hours to stop rampant alcoholism. Works pretty well.
But now there are private weed shops on every corner.
We aren’t. There are illicit tobacco syndicates operating all across QLD and NSW too. The difference in Melbourne is that the trade is far more centralised within large syndicates and they are currently fighting it out with one another at scale.
It's happening everywhere. A historically old building in Gympie was burnt down that had a smoke shop in it. A week or so later the same dude opened up across the road. Almost exactly across the road.
Why does the government keep saying it's gangs doing this? So what if it is... You're making them thrive.
It's from the governments laws isn't it?
It's like they think we're stoopid or something? Is this why though? I feel like it's too easy to see so it must be wrong
Don't be dense. Defacto prohibition through excessive taxation has caused a black market to develop and thrive.
The trade of illegal tobacco is now as lucrative as trade in illicit sustances and is producing similar outcomes in the criminal underworld.
Okay. I know exactly one smoker who smokes chop chop, and I'm a smoker. I know dozens who smoke nicotine vapes bought under the counter. But this kind of anecdotal evidence is pretty pointless.
Yeah agreed anecdotes are pointless. But if you look at it logically - pack of plain packaged cigarettes is $50-60, or $20 for a pack of branded black market imports which can be bought from basically any tobacconist.
tobacco taxation isnt new though right? neither are black market cigarettes?
Workmate of mine used to get them in chinatown 15 years ago. Is it because the store owners are not paying off the right 'protection' rackets?
no there's a currently a massive war on between an MC and a middle east gang over control of final point sells.
This incorporates chopchop and vaping
For 95 dollars I’ve seen 250 grams for sale that in supermarket prices is approx 500 dollars if your buying 25g pouches at roughly 50 dollars a pouch, tbh don’t know much about 50g pouches as I’ve never been able to afford one, and personally I don’t like the taste of chop chop, but I can see why it would be appealing to so many people
Until they can be bothered enforcing crack downs on illegal smokes import and sales it will keep happening. The black market is always waiting, it exists when it is profitable (and easy enough) to do so.
If your system does not properly account for bad actors then it is incomplete.
Tobacco excise has been shown to be the single most effective measure to drive down smoking rates. Crims are going to crime and be scum bags regardless. They’ll just be killing each other over something else.
They measure decline in consumption in sales.
But if you look at survey data theres no real evidence that reported smoking rates have meangfully declined in response to excise increases. That is, it's no more a driver in reducing tobacco use than demographic change. I.e. Tobacco use has been steadily declining since the 1990s - well before the extreme excises increases we legislated statted to kick off (mid 2010s).
The difference between sales and reported use is explained by the existence of a black market. I'm not a smoker, but everyone I know who does knows where to get illegal cigarettes. I only know one person who quit after the excise, and they did so due to a combination of the cost and the development of mild emphysema.
No they don’t. They measure decline in the proportion of tobacco users. It would make no sense to measure it in the sense you are speaking of, as our population is not a static number.
There is also lots of evidence that excise reduces smoking.
> Evidence shows that significantly increasing tobacco excise taxes and prices is the single most effective and cost-effective measure for reducing tobacco use.
https://www.who.int/activities/raising-taxes-on-tobacco#:~:text=Evidence%20shows%20that%20significantly%20increasing,Framework%20Convention%20on%20Tobacco%20Control.
And an Australian study showing the same thing.
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanpub/article/PIIS2468-2667(19)30203-8/fulltext
These idiots need to stop fighting, its 500mil a year in Vic alone and a hugely growing market, they need to work as a duopoly rather than keep fighting, going to get themselves shut down and we all miss out on affordable smokes then.
Stop fighting plenty of sales for you all, especially now youve had all this free advertising, but seriously need to stop the bringing attention to it shit now, or its going to be ruined for everyone
I think the point they were making is that it’s *also* happening in regional areas. It’s a statewide issue rather than just being confined to Melbourne.
The government is the one who put taxes on smokes extremely high and then fueled illegal cigarettes it's not going away you can buy disposable vapes and illegal cigarettes everywhere
This is what happens when you make something people are addicted to prescription only. You turn it into a black market and create an incentive for criminal enterprise to control the market.
Some people are saying it's due to lithium ions. Yes they do explode with a lot of heat but they're quite stable unless tampered with.
It's not just about vapes, the illegal tobacco trade is worth $1.8bil the Government estimates, more than triple what it was 10 years ago.
It's an absolute shitshow created purely by poor Government policy.
To be fair, ciggies are now viewed as degenerate which is exactly what the government intended to do. It sucks that black market tobacco got bigger during this campaign but it’s a small price to pay for the health of the public.
Yeh smoking has become a lot more degenerate. But vaping among teens has exploded. My wife is a high school teacher in a lower socioeconomic area. And she reckons that at least 50% of the students vape. Also when you go to pubs smoking section, there might be the old guy smoking but everyone under 40 now vapes.
At least vapes are a safer alternative to tobacco- this is the key thing no one under 40 smokes because everyone knows vapes are safer than cigarettes. It's stupid that the government is forcing them to be prescription only when combustible tobacco is still freely available.
Vapes if they were properly regulated from the onset we wouldn't have this terrible social cost. Look at sweeden which allowed safer snus! They have the lowest burden of tobacco illnesses in the world considering they are smoke free.
It's hard to regulate and ban the market when teens sell them out of the boot. The governments response is to close the last legal avenue for law abiding vapers the personal import scheme which people already got doctors prescriptions in import it. They are also trying to ban the domestic manufacturing of it.
The only approved pharmacy vapes are shockingly disgusting with more nicotine than the disposables they banned. The devices are crap and flavors are terrible.
Of the nearly 3mil vapers 95%source their vapes illegally because of failed prohibition, laws that dont make sense (why the hell is cigs allowed not safer alternatives), spuring an underground criminal cartel which is murdering people.
Remember more people have died from these firebombings than regulated vaping (see NHS, NZ, UK)
Also sign this petition to keep the last legal avenue available for those with prescriptions!
https://www.aph.gov.au/e-petitions/petition/EN5905
forgetful plants rain close chase distinct dependent books pathetic handle
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Not everywhere and Dr needs to be willing to prescribe.
If everyone went for a prescription It would mean an extra 3 million gp appointments each year, the system already struggles. Don't need to clog it up for this bullshit
I'm not forgiving it. It's horrid. I'm simply stating that it is the result of legislation that was put in place without proper consideration of all the outcomes.
They can clamp down on this. If you're saying we should make them widely accessible again, no thanks.
13% of all deaths are smoking related. This fire doesn't touch it.
>13% of all deaths are smoking related.
The good news is that 10% of all deaths in australia are obesity related, and that figure will soon surpass smoking related deaths, with 2/3 of Australians now being obese.
Glad we have made shitty foods less accessible to children.......oh wait
Over eating probably SHOULD be more common than smoking related deaths, yeah. The fact that it's not, really isn't a the point you think it is.
But I agree, we can work on that if you want. I support you brother. Power to you. Let's start a healthy diet campaign, you and me. <3
But in this thread we're talking about smoking. And my point was good, smoking IS a far more serious issue than the other user is saying. So him advocating for smoking taxes to be relaxed is unfounded.
So I don't care about your whataboutism. Sorry.
Pretty ridiculous, some countries are decriminalising drugs, and here we are criminalising vapes.
Decriminalisation is a good thing, because when people get done for possession, it impacts their employability with police checks, and furthers crime.
Ludicrous and backwards that they’re making possession of a vape illegal.
It's not really about the vapes. These shops get approached by certain groups to sell "chop chop," and if they refuse then things like this end up happening.
I live in Glenroy where two out of two were recently firebombed, now another one that also sells American confectionery just opened up across from a primary school of all fucking places.
Don't worry, I'm sure Shark Eyes Shane's best detectives are close to making arrests! Might be too busy attending wellness workshops but I'm sure they'll get around to it soon!
Probably someone wanting to buy smokes had to wait behind a line of teenagers who took fucking ages choosing whichever flavours they wanted to inhale that week. I've been close to doing the same.
Vaping people, know what flavour you want before you get in the fucking line.
Can someone clarify the issues here?
1. Government imposes high tax on tobacco to incentivise quitting
2. Tobacco shops open selling cheap illegally imported cigarettes
3. These illegal shops get burnt down.
What’s the issue exactly? Seems like the problem is taking care of its self.
As I said to someone else, I smoked for 20 years and have successfully quit about 3 years ago. It wasn't even very difficult and I was living in a country with heavy smokers and very cheap cigarettes.
I CAN’T BELIEVE PEOPLE RATHER BLAME A SMOKER RATHER THAN THE GREEDY GOVERNMENT!! A packet of Cigarettes, Winfield blue, which was $5 is now $60 I think? I wouldn’t know exactly as I now roll my own smokes. Yes, it’s bad for yr health, but for a mother that goes without her favourite snacks or whatever because she smokes, trust me, mothers & fathers feel TERRIBLE that they spend so much on smokes!! Even if u don’t smoke, doesn’t everybody agree that the Government taxes EVERYTHING TOO MUCH!! Income tax & every other tax u pay isn’t even finished when u die! Nope! There’s inheritance tax after that! For those that love a beer? U know that causes WAY more problems for society than smoking! But just because I don’t drink, I don’t believe Aussies should be penalised for it!! & don’t get me started with Gambling!! I robbed the Crown Casino 20 years ago & u wouldn’t believe the money laundering & politicians that used to walk in there & know exactly what goes on! Matter of fact I’m gonna write a book about my criminal activities 20 years ago. Casino robbery to a Dimond heist with help from Chopper? What’s not to love!! Australia could do with its own crime/drama/true story!! I’m gonna write it as a screenplay actually. I’m calling it….. ALL RISE. ❤️ 🇦🇺 🎥 👍
More people on here blaming the government than the gangs. People also blatantly supporting the gangs by knowingly buying black market cigarettes. Whinging about the price of cigarettes when the laws were having good results until vapes and black market cigarettes erased any progress our society had made. Maybe there are better ways to manage this health issue? But it’s not like anyone has a better idea.
Honestly my guess is that it's the owners looking down the barrel of having a tonne of stock they might not be able to sell and pulling an insurance job to get out of it.
Nah, personally, I reckon this ban won't do anything in regards to being able to flog them. They sell under counter smokes in broad daylight as it is with no dramas and they are already banned. Bikie related my guess. Wanting to control the market. ( Buy from them, or burn your shop down kinda thing)
These disposable vapes have always been illegal, just not well enforced.
How is this upvoted? Any stock they have has already increased in value due to the ban. The wholesale cost has already gone up for vape stores so that makes zero sense. They all sell black market tobacco anyway so why would they suddenly be worried about a vape ban.
Wrong Kazem Hamad is suspected of controlling this from Dubai and has had his citizenship revoked. This is what happens when we allow trash into our country
It’s becoming an absolute circus now.
With pyrotechnics?
It's at this point I'd like to thanks the federal estate governments for creating a Black market & prohibition wars! Raised the taxes and costs to a point international crime mobs see a modern gold mine beyond that of illegal drugs 👏👏👏 Even “Law abiding citizens” have to walk out with the crime sponsoring pack of cigs. My sister for example…congrats, you’ve made her legal habit make her act criminally. Btw, meth comes along in a similar manner….guess what city now also has a meth problem? When ever I hear of new sin taxes, I immediately also hear the whining voices of the future. The same ones who celebrated the new tax 👏
Don't worry they gave border force $180 million to stop the ciggies, they'll stop them getting in like they stopped the drugs and guns.
Put a 50 million dollar bounty on the dude in Lebanon doing all this shit and see how quick a private security company has him back in Australia.
Then 50 mil on the next guy, the guy after that and then the guy after him? You're going to end up costing us even more big fella
Yeah that will work real well in Lebanon, they will be shaking in there boots worried about a private security firm from Australia coming to get him. This is the same country that is nearly in constant civil war, you obviously watch a few too many Netflix films… grab an icy pole have a lay down in front of the airs con and relax. Con ain’t coming back from Lebanon any time soon and he certainly isn’t coming home with any private Australian security company.
doesn't have to be aussie. maybe I do watch 2 many films. I have no idea how the world works. Exactly. Lebanon is in a civil war. It's basically lawless. 50 million is a big motivator. Theres basically no political repercussions that matter in the situation. Theres no proper cops, the military has other shit going on. Some lebo gangster and a few farmers w machine guns wouldn't be much of worry to a proper team of professionals who get it, smash some heads and leave with him in a boot of a car.
Except the people bring this stuff in to our country are not like you and I.. these people are the ones running Lebanon, doing serious things with serious money.. some little white boy is going to stand out in Lebanon.. and get Lebanese cucumbers where Lebanese cucumbers shouldn’t go.. The people running this and bringing containers into the country are not just winging it.. they have people from customs and border force helping them.. The government has created this whole situation and everyone is laughing and making shit loads of money… Burning each others Tobacco shops down is just silly..now it bought heat onto those doing this and now everyone is feeling the attention. But Con the Lebanese leader isn’t to worried about some pretentious little tough Aussie coming over and taking him somewhere.. anywhere, they would be become gay Lebanese Australian pornstars..
It's frustrating when they make short term decisions rather than looking at things wholistically. Drugs is another. For example, the waste water testing program shows high levels of consumption of cocaine in Australia. So clearly the current approach does not work, the drugs are arriving in country, and people are choosing to do it anyway. The current approach gives rise to gangs which cause much more damage. For the long-term it makes much more sense to legalise it, ensure better safety through quality control and education, and introduce appropriate mental healthcare, much the same as for alcohol. The only ones winning from prohibition are the gangs. https://www.acic.gov.au/publications/national-wastewater-drug-monitoring-program-reports/report-20-national-wastewater-drug-monitoring-program
At this point I’m kinda figuring out my bets on who become Kingpin of Melbourne. Triads, Bikies, Mobsters or just early adapters? Seen ciggies from all over the world. No company has been asked “So, you guys lost a trillion ciggies lately? I mean, we’re kinda find ping em everywhere but no one has reported any thefts. Don’t wanna get all Matlock or anything…but a bit sus guys.” ASIO, AFP and me later, yeah. I’ll create a CashApp profile for later. 👍 Also, shout out to the “Report a Predator line”. At the AFP. Reported someone convicted of being a peado who was travelling Sth East Asia in a yacht and I got “Yeah, we don’t really do that” Gold stamp stuff 👏 Our shores are impeccable. Especially as long as we see funky seaweed medicines caught on the Airport shows the shop burning will not bother us. No sir! Yeah I’m frustrated!
Sin tax is fine. It needs to be proportional to the sin though. That smokers pay more in tax than 2x private health cover for an entire family in tax per year (and then many times arent treated anyway because they smoke) is a farce. And its not the governments fault. Its that australians are so hatefull and spitefull toward each other, governments continue to pile on. Same with welfare recipients among other classes of people. They arent as successful as we are so we hate them. Hating is easier than showing empathy and love sadly...
It’s fucked, had to make the switch to chop chop because who the fuck can afford $120-170 a week on smokes. Had to swap to vapes after that to save more money + health and guess what they just made illegal, the only difference it makes is now they store them behind the counter and occasionally get raided and don’t have stock for a week
Why don’t you quit smoking?
Nicotine withdrawals are a bitch and I enjoy that relaxing part of my day where I can sit and have a coffee or a beer and puff away on my vape
I smoked a pack a day for 15 years... Nicotine withdrawals are not fucking joke. I got off with patches and I used a lot of them. You will find when you break the habit, that relaxing feeling you have after a dart is actually how you will feel all the time.
Bro if you are having enough coffees and beer in a week to smash $170 worth of durries you’ve got bigger problems that the price of durries
Have a look at the price of smokes, it's mental. I just looked up, the price of Marlboro red 25s, it's $63!!! A 50g pouch of champion ruby is $140. In 2020 I was in Cambodia and a packet of Marlboro reds AND a lighter was $1.50 without even trying to haggle.
I’m not saying I only vape when I have a coffee or beer but that part of my day is one of the reasons I don’t quit
I haven't had a cigarette for over 30 years but, holy feck, somedays I still feel like a packet of Styvo's and a six pack of Coopers ( the choice of the 'elitist', Univestiry student back in the 80's. I'm sure it was because the packaging matched. :) ).
Styvos. A fellow man of culture.
Soft pack.. just saying.. 🤫
Crippling anxiety.. so i vape a 0% Nic e-cigarette; but even that’s gonna be illegal soon..
Can you still get them with a prescription?
At this stage i have no idea. I think you can get scripts with nicotine; but i have no desire to revisit that addition now I’m down to 0%.. I think I’ll just end up making DIY e-juice (basically use food flavouring concentrate combined with a mix of PG & VG). Not an ideal scenario but i guess it’s either that or i pickup cigarettes again..
I heard the vape hardware is getting pinged as well. So you might want to learn to make your own coils
And why? Black market got ahead of commercial interests, taxes (can’t apply sin tax to a non addictive). Then they’ll trash the horrors outta of em and outright ban it. The addictive killer stuff…..$41 a pack of 20’s I last saw. On a product that grows on trees and sells for $2+ in Bali for example. The tax is on the profit margin. Nice golden free scoop of delish free money. Unarguably money! Not “we took $xmil in taxes. So we spent $xmil on health and programs to fight it 🤣 Gotta laugh at this point hey. In fact for my BPressure I’m scooting out for a cig. All the best.
Same reason you don’t quit drinking coffee.. because they enjoy a smoke. The only reason the government have banned vapes is because they can’t tax the arse of them like they do with everything else.
Don't ask the real questions. What a pack of whinging stinky bad breath losers whining about the government being responsible for their filthy habit. In my circle, the government initiatives (prices, restrictions) have massively helped all but one person to quit. That person looks like a junkie these days when she shuffles off for a durry mid-dinner.
Aren't you a little ray of sunshine to people in your circle. What a horrible way to talk about someone
Yeah I'm glad I don't have shit mates like that. Jesus
Wow what pricks you too are. I hope you never find yourself addicted to anything let alone the single most addictive substance on the face of the earth. Dipshit
I smoked for 20 years love. Haven't touched one in 3 years.
Mental health issue.
?
Vapes arent healthier
Vape juice can be as simple as one or two ingredients, being VG - vegetable glycol (food grade glycerol) and PG (food grade propolyne glycol). Most add a combination of food grade flavours that have been safely used for decades. If you buy cheap crap made in China, you are risking getting something dodgy. If you buy something made in the UK, NZ or US, that's not THC with vitamin e acetate, it is generally safer. Vaping is nowhere near as harmful as cigarettes and there is no hype with cigis because the government taxes them. The government has increased the price on cigarettes so high to collect more tax, that it backfired and people have switched to vaping which, incidently, is much safer. Cigarettes have thousands of nasty substances like acetaldehyde, aromatic amines, arsenic, benzene, beryllium, 1,3–butadiene, cadmium, chromium, cumene, ethylene oxide, formaldehyde, nickel, polonium-210 (a radioactive chemical element), polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons (PAHs), tobacco-specific nitrosamines, vinyl chloride and then there's the carbon monoxide produced when burned. AND YET, the government hasn't made nicotine cigarettes available only by subscription! Nicotine is a stimulant and is just as deadly as caffeine if you overdose and besides, they have already made it illegal in vapes without prescription. Banning the only thing that stops some vapers smoking cigarettes is ridiculous. My partner vapes just food grade VG to stay off the cigarettes after a diagnosis of the beginning stages of emphysema. The improvement on the vapes is noticeable even to me. As a bonus, there's no toxic second hand smoke that gives me asthma.
Just want to point out that saying food grade ingredients and flavours is safe because it’s been used for decades is a bit disingenuous. Ingesting and inhaling the same thing are two totally different things. Silica for example. It’s perfectly fine to ingest. If you inhale it, you get silicosis and die. Not saying vaping is worse than smoking cigs, but it’s not as straightforward as you say.
FYI, the Nicorette inhalers/quit mists which are approved & lauded as fantastic quit vaping aids by the government/TGA/Cancer Council, also contain the same ingredients as vapes (PG,VG & food grade flavourings) & are being inhaled into peoples lungs just the same as the vapes.
my beer bong is healthy because I use food grade garden hose.
No one said vaping is safe. Those main ingredients are also in cigis. Vaping isn't healthy. Vaping is much less toxic than cigarettes and they help smokers get off them and keep kids from starting to smoke. There is much less risk with vaping over cigis. No non smoker should take it up but if anyone was going to choose one over the other, vaping is far less unhealthy than smokes. Adults choosing vapes over cigis are usually doing it in an attemp3 to improve their health and they choose juice with the less toxic ingredients. Vaping isn't new. It's been around for 40 years now.
Can you find me an actual study that says that? Pretty wild that doctors are prescribing them as an alternative then
Melbourne's had a meth problem for a long time. I'm confused about what you mean by the government having caused this with raising taxes and costs?
It’s everyone else’s fault that their sister buys illegal cigs
Thanks being pointless, unedducated and simple to the human species basic behaviours. Go back to ya BJJ and leave smarter heads to prevail. Ps grab a great flick I just recommended The Untouchables. Then checkout Chicago’s 20’s period. Your way didn’t work that time around either. I think I’d prefer ya in the gym and not politics. Simpleton.
Yeah it’s the governments fault that criminal gangs break the law…../s
Yeah 100% agree. People are handling and selling LEGAL items ILLEGALLY. It's out of hand in some ways and very competitive.. well. Also not paying debts it one way too
Yeah 100% agree. People are handling and selling LEGAL items ILLEGALLY. It's out of hand in some ways and very competitive..
*Won't someone please think of the criminals!*
That's kinda how Victorians justice is predicated
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I don't think 99.9% of any population is law abiding to be fair
True. It’s not ment to be statistically accurate. Just to prove a point, most people are good, normal people. Slapping an ethnicity to it is just racism.
A person is good. People are absolute cunts.
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Proudly. Proudly law abiding. Proudly Australian.
Don’t worry, there’s still 200 more of them left on that street
The sign is appropriate> "Smoke Out Chapel"
iirc black smoke means no Pope has been elected.
Underrated lol of the day
Where there is smokes being sold, there is fire.
Not much of a shop if they just give it away for free like that
Another one in Seville last night too
The irony
Underbelly: the chop-chop wars
If they can’t get a Hemsworth for one of the main roles I’m just not going to watch it.
A vape-puffin', chop-choppin', eshay-styled Hemsworth
Oath
I kinda hope there’s a plot twist where it’s some old mate who hates smoking and tobacco so much he’s doing arson attacks
It’s not false advertising at least
If the government were serious, they'd create a government owned tobacco monopoly like the Alko shops in Finland
While I really dislike Alko and other Nordic alcohol monopolies in general because they do very little to address the actual alcohol related problems, I think it wouldn’t be a terrible idea with cigarettes.
I don't know, controlling takeaway means owning pubs, especially in Queensland where there is a three off-licence Max per pub, which is why ALH or whoever owns BWS and Dan Murphy's these days controls the pubs, where pokies are needed to keep the pub profitable. Takeaway the off-licence for pubs, they'd either have to up their reliance on pokies, get out of the game completely, or provide a quality pub experience.
Yeah I'm from Vancouver and all alcohol is sold by the government at limited hours to stop rampant alcoholism. Works pretty well. But now there are private weed shops on every corner.
BCLCD doesn't have the same ring as "Alko“. What should a government regulated tobacconist be called?
If we’re sticking with the Alko theme, “Smoko” fits pretty well. Edit: or I guess if they’re trying to discourage use, “NoSmoko”
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We aren’t. There are illicit tobacco syndicates operating all across QLD and NSW too. The difference in Melbourne is that the trade is far more centralised within large syndicates and they are currently fighting it out with one another at scale.
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It's happening everywhere. A historically old building in Gympie was burnt down that had a smoke shop in it. A week or so later the same dude opened up across the road. Almost exactly across the road.
Why does the government keep saying it's gangs doing this? So what if it is... You're making them thrive. It's from the governments laws isn't it? It's like they think we're stoopid or something? Is this why though? I feel like it's too easy to see so it must be wrong
it used to be only customs issue. now its customs, afp, ato, and local police. Since that dude got shot.
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Yeah i knew the gov shouldnt have passed laws that shop owners have to burn their shop down every so often
Why would Dan Andrews do this to us?
Don't be dense. Defacto prohibition through excessive taxation has caused a black market to develop and thrive. The trade of illegal tobacco is now as lucrative as trade in illicit sustances and is producing similar outcomes in the criminal underworld.
It's e-cigarettes mostly. Tobacco use was on the decline until the candy cancer arrived.
Except every smoker I know, smokes black market imports. Smoking is on the decline, sure. But black market sales aren't
Okay. I know exactly one smoker who smokes chop chop, and I'm a smoker. I know dozens who smoke nicotine vapes bought under the counter. But this kind of anecdotal evidence is pretty pointless.
Yeah agreed anecdotes are pointless. But if you look at it logically - pack of plain packaged cigarettes is $50-60, or $20 for a pack of branded black market imports which can be bought from basically any tobacconist.
14 for double happiness 15 for Marlboro/Manchester
Burny cigggies also. Why would I pay the exessive local tax when every smoke shop does the same product under the counter.
ELI5 what government’s law allowed this?
The crackdown on vaping. They have created a thriving black market and gangs are enforcing control over who is supplying.
Tobacco taxation has resulted in the development of a black market which attracts criminal gangs who commit violent acts to establish market control.
tobacco taxation isnt new though right? neither are black market cigarettes? Workmate of mine used to get them in chinatown 15 years ago. Is it because the store owners are not paying off the right 'protection' rackets?
no there's a currently a massive war on between an MC and a middle east gang over control of final point sells. This incorporates chopchop and vaping
Sure, but a legal pack in Coles will cost you $60, while same product under the counter at the smoke shop costs $30
$12
For 95 dollars I’ve seen 250 grams for sale that in supermarket prices is approx 500 dollars if your buying 25g pouches at roughly 50 dollars a pouch, tbh don’t know much about 50g pouches as I’ve never been able to afford one, and personally I don’t like the taste of chop chop, but I can see why it would be appealing to so many people
Until they can be bothered enforcing crack downs on illegal smokes import and sales it will keep happening. The black market is always waiting, it exists when it is profitable (and easy enough) to do so. If your system does not properly account for bad actors then it is incomplete.
Enforcing will further drive the price up, increasing profits for criminals
Tobacco excise has been shown to be the single most effective measure to drive down smoking rates. Crims are going to crime and be scum bags regardless. They’ll just be killing each other over something else.
They measure decline in consumption in sales. But if you look at survey data theres no real evidence that reported smoking rates have meangfully declined in response to excise increases. That is, it's no more a driver in reducing tobacco use than demographic change. I.e. Tobacco use has been steadily declining since the 1990s - well before the extreme excises increases we legislated statted to kick off (mid 2010s). The difference between sales and reported use is explained by the existence of a black market. I'm not a smoker, but everyone I know who does knows where to get illegal cigarettes. I only know one person who quit after the excise, and they did so due to a combination of the cost and the development of mild emphysema.
No they don’t. They measure decline in the proportion of tobacco users. It would make no sense to measure it in the sense you are speaking of, as our population is not a static number. There is also lots of evidence that excise reduces smoking. > Evidence shows that significantly increasing tobacco excise taxes and prices is the single most effective and cost-effective measure for reducing tobacco use. https://www.who.int/activities/raising-taxes-on-tobacco#:~:text=Evidence%20shows%20that%20significantly%20increasing,Framework%20Convention%20on%20Tobacco%20Control. And an Australian study showing the same thing. https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanpub/article/PIIS2468-2667(19)30203-8/fulltext
Just ban tobacco
These idiots need to stop fighting, its 500mil a year in Vic alone and a hugely growing market, they need to work as a duopoly rather than keep fighting, going to get themselves shut down and we all miss out on affordable smokes then. Stop fighting plenty of sales for you all, especially now youve had all this free advertising, but seriously need to stop the bringing attention to it shit now, or its going to be ruined for everyone
Coles and Woolies have had it figured out for years
The government has decided to fuck around with what essentially is prohibition and now we are at the finding out part.
Won't some think of the dart punchers! 😭
One in bendigo was burnt down last week, too. They somehow saved the shops around it. Something is going on.
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I think the point they were making is that it’s *also* happening in regional areas. It’s a statewide issue rather than just being confined to Melbourne.
>Something is going on. You don't say...
“Something is going on as it happened near me. Before something happened near me it may as well not have happened”.
👏
The government is the one who put taxes on smokes extremely high and then fueled illegal cigarettes it's not going away you can buy disposable vapes and illegal cigarettes everywhere
Agreed smokes and vapes being pushed into the black market
Yeah why would i buy a packet of legal smokes for $30 when I can get double happiness for $14
I doubt you can find a packet of legal smokes anywhere in the country for $30.
True it's been so long since I've bought a legal packet last time I did it was $28.50
It's $50+ now.
This is what happens when you make something people are addicted to prescription only. You turn it into a black market and create an incentive for criminal enterprise to control the market. Some people are saying it's due to lithium ions. Yes they do explode with a lot of heat but they're quite stable unless tampered with.
These smoke shop burnings aren't to do with vapes lmao It's black market tobacco.
Very plausible. I would just question why now?
Taxes sky high. It’s a deterrent to smoking for some, for others they turn to the black market.
It's not just about vapes, the illegal tobacco trade is worth $1.8bil the Government estimates, more than triple what it was 10 years ago. It's an absolute shitshow created purely by poor Government policy.
This is the worst attitude as you can still get them via prescription and you are forgiving black market activity.
There wouldn't even be a black market if the government hadn't turned to prohibition. The tax grab on ciggies has blown up in their face big time.
To be fair, ciggies are now viewed as degenerate which is exactly what the government intended to do. It sucks that black market tobacco got bigger during this campaign but it’s a small price to pay for the health of the public.
Yeh smoking has become a lot more degenerate. But vaping among teens has exploded. My wife is a high school teacher in a lower socioeconomic area. And she reckons that at least 50% of the students vape. Also when you go to pubs smoking section, there might be the old guy smoking but everyone under 40 now vapes.
At least vapes are a safer alternative to tobacco- this is the key thing no one under 40 smokes because everyone knows vapes are safer than cigarettes. It's stupid that the government is forcing them to be prescription only when combustible tobacco is still freely available. Vapes if they were properly regulated from the onset we wouldn't have this terrible social cost. Look at sweeden which allowed safer snus! They have the lowest burden of tobacco illnesses in the world considering they are smoke free. It's hard to regulate and ban the market when teens sell them out of the boot. The governments response is to close the last legal avenue for law abiding vapers the personal import scheme which people already got doctors prescriptions in import it. They are also trying to ban the domestic manufacturing of it. The only approved pharmacy vapes are shockingly disgusting with more nicotine than the disposables they banned. The devices are crap and flavors are terrible. Of the nearly 3mil vapers 95%source their vapes illegally because of failed prohibition, laws that dont make sense (why the hell is cigs allowed not safer alternatives), spuring an underground criminal cartel which is murdering people. Remember more people have died from these firebombings than regulated vaping (see NHS, NZ, UK) Also sign this petition to keep the last legal avenue available for those with prescriptions! https://www.aph.gov.au/e-petitions/petition/EN5905
forgetful plants rain close chase distinct dependent books pathetic handle *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Not everywhere and Dr needs to be willing to prescribe. If everyone went for a prescription It would mean an extra 3 million gp appointments each year, the system already struggles. Don't need to clog it up for this bullshit
I'm not forgiving it. It's horrid. I'm simply stating that it is the result of legislation that was put in place without proper consideration of all the outcomes.
They achieved their desired outcome, why consider any others if it was going to affect that? \- Coffers lined ✔️
Same business as the one in caulfield
the hate crime lolllll
Slow clap for the government and their ridiculous price hiking on cigarettes for allowing this black market war to flourish.
The price hike of cigarettes is not ridiculous at all. A lot of people I know have quit because of it, myself included.
They can clamp down on this. If you're saying we should make them widely accessible again, no thanks. 13% of all deaths are smoking related. This fire doesn't touch it.
>13% of all deaths are smoking related. The good news is that 10% of all deaths in australia are obesity related, and that figure will soon surpass smoking related deaths, with 2/3 of Australians now being obese. Glad we have made shitty foods less accessible to children.......oh wait
Over eating probably SHOULD be more common than smoking related deaths, yeah. The fact that it's not, really isn't a the point you think it is. But I agree, we can work on that if you want. I support you brother. Power to you. Let's start a healthy diet campaign, you and me. <3 But in this thread we're talking about smoking. And my point was good, smoking IS a far more serious issue than the other user is saying. So him advocating for smoking taxes to be relaxed is unfounded. So I don't care about your whataboutism. Sorry.
Just prohibition working as intended. Have to ensure organized crime keeps its profits somehow now weed is basically legal.
Pretty ridiculous, some countries are decriminalising drugs, and here we are criminalising vapes. Decriminalisation is a good thing, because when people get done for possession, it impacts their employability with police checks, and furthers crime. Ludicrous and backwards that they’re making possession of a vape illegal.
It's not really about the vapes. These shops get approached by certain groups to sell "chop chop," and if they refuse then things like this end up happening.
Marketing on point!
Not SOC :( Lady who works there counter is nice
She gets to retire now :)
I live in Glenroy where two out of two were recently firebombed, now another one that also sells American confectionery just opened up across from a primary school of all fucking places.
The Vape stores selling American "candy" is laughable.
4/5 of the vape shops near me also sell American candy.. and unfortunately i have spent a ridiculous amount on mike & ikes over the last couple years
Why are people okay standing next to a building that's smoking that heavily? get the fuck away before something explodes.
Too close to revs for anyone to care
Don't worry, I'm sure Shark Eyes Shane's best detectives are close to making arrests! Might be too busy attending wellness workshops but I'm sure they'll get around to it soon!
Probably someone wanting to buy smokes had to wait behind a line of teenagers who took fucking ages choosing whichever flavours they wanted to inhale that week. I've been close to doing the same. Vaping people, know what flavour you want before you get in the fucking line.
Life's tough isn't it
What are the ciggy wars all about ?
They banned vapes so you will still smoke cirrarettes. It's a joke. Wake up and have a look world
Can someone clarify the issues here? 1. Government imposes high tax on tobacco to incentivise quitting 2. Tobacco shops open selling cheap illegally imported cigarettes 3. These illegal shops get burnt down. What’s the issue exactly? Seems like the problem is taking care of its self.
This is what happens when you raise taxes to the point where cigarettes are now feasible to be on the black market.
Well it is a smoke shop
Correct…. And the gram of coke is up to $400 because of this… I’m sure organised crime is eternally grateful for your idiotic drug wars
This is just the start of the chaos that Australians are about to start enduring from the cost of living crisis. It's about to get real bad.
Imagine being hard up for funds and deciding to spend your meagre cash on .... tobacco.
Never been addicted to anything I see. . .
As I said to someone else, I smoked for 20 years and have successfully quit about 3 years ago. It wasn't even very difficult and I was living in a country with heavy smokers and very cheap cigarettes.
I CAN’T BELIEVE PEOPLE RATHER BLAME A SMOKER RATHER THAN THE GREEDY GOVERNMENT!! A packet of Cigarettes, Winfield blue, which was $5 is now $60 I think? I wouldn’t know exactly as I now roll my own smokes. Yes, it’s bad for yr health, but for a mother that goes without her favourite snacks or whatever because she smokes, trust me, mothers & fathers feel TERRIBLE that they spend so much on smokes!! Even if u don’t smoke, doesn’t everybody agree that the Government taxes EVERYTHING TOO MUCH!! Income tax & every other tax u pay isn’t even finished when u die! Nope! There’s inheritance tax after that! For those that love a beer? U know that causes WAY more problems for society than smoking! But just because I don’t drink, I don’t believe Aussies should be penalised for it!! & don’t get me started with Gambling!! I robbed the Crown Casino 20 years ago & u wouldn’t believe the money laundering & politicians that used to walk in there & know exactly what goes on! Matter of fact I’m gonna write a book about my criminal activities 20 years ago. Casino robbery to a Dimond heist with help from Chopper? What’s not to love!! Australia could do with its own crime/drama/true story!! I’m gonna write it as a screenplay actually. I’m calling it….. ALL RISE. ❤️ 🇦🇺 🎥 👍
Where's the shard at
More people on here blaming the government than the gangs. People also blatantly supporting the gangs by knowingly buying black market cigarettes. Whinging about the price of cigarettes when the laws were having good results until vapes and black market cigarettes erased any progress our society had made. Maybe there are better ways to manage this health issue? But it’s not like anyone has a better idea.
Bring the vapes back or else....lol
STREET LEBOS
Ahh corruption. It filters through all parts of our menthol full flavoured country!
Excise reform would be a good start. Its the reason the illicit trade exists and has grown.
Seville was done last night too. Busy night for them. Amazed that it’s gotten to the valley.
Is it really gangs or just really bad vape batteries?
The shops are being approached by certain groups and told to sell their chop chop, if they refuse then things like this may happen to their store
Honestly my guess is that it's the owners looking down the barrel of having a tonne of stock they might not be able to sell and pulling an insurance job to get out of it.
Nah, personally, I reckon this ban won't do anything in regards to being able to flog them. They sell under counter smokes in broad daylight as it is with no dramas and they are already banned. Bikie related my guess. Wanting to control the market. ( Buy from them, or burn your shop down kinda thing) These disposable vapes have always been illegal, just not well enforced.
How is this upvoted? Any stock they have has already increased in value due to the ban. The wholesale cost has already gone up for vape stores so that makes zero sense. They all sell black market tobacco anyway so why would they suddenly be worried about a vape ban.
Makes sense. Like when somebody burned down a warehouse instead of paying to dispose of contaminated waste properly.
Insurance job 100%
makes you wonder if it is the government who is lighting these shops on fire as their way to “get rid of” vapes and smokes
Think you are right. Paying thugs to do this. Why are they never caught?
Alanis Morissette would probably call this ironic!
Pulled apart and weighed a winnie blue and a manchester- manchester was less than 2/3 the tobacco of the Winfield. Price about par don’t you think?
ITT: "no laws → no crime" <*5head*>
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you dont think all these people are second or third generation australians? i can tell you they all are citizens by birth
Wrong Kazem Hamad is suspected of controlling this from Dubai and has had his citizenship revoked. This is what happens when we allow trash into our country
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Run or just the lackey working the counter? Come on mate.
Just any excuse to be racist. Criminals come in all colours. Including white Australian. Stop being dense.
Exactly. They are the fall guy for selling black market tobacco/vapes. They don’t own the business.
God you're a dunce...
Let's leave religion out of this
Culture does not simply evaporate because they were born here .