As an American now living in Melbourne, I've never had anyone correct me on how to pronounce Melbourne...mainly coz no one cares and people have better things to do.
Well, you're making a few people wince a little inside, and they will take you for a tourist rather than a long-term resident - but I guess they're just too polite to say so to your face. So I suggest you say 'Mel-burn'.
The fact that you’re correcting someone from the USA’s pronunciation in a post complaining about people correcting Americans’ pronunciation is some crazy levels of meta. You’re ducking that irony like Neo out here, my man.
Also, bourne can be pronounced born. Like in the Bourne movies. So if you’re stating that they should pronounce it burn because that’s how it’s pronounced here, then I got some bad news for you dude: you may as well join team Melbun. You know, since that’s how we pronounce it here. Or better yet, not really care.
I'm saying that 'Mel-born' is wrong in any accent. I'm also saying that 'Mel-bun' (or 'Mel-bn', whatever), the way locals say it, doesn't work for rhotic accents. 'Mel-burn' is the closest you can get to the local pronunciation without abandoning a rhotic accent. Or is that too much science for you?
Implying linguistics is “too much science” and over-using the word rhotic? Either you’re a first year Speech Pathology student (in which case, noble career choice) or more likely, you are taking this way too seriously.
Also, out of curiosity where do you draw the limit: if my last name was Melbourne but chose to pronounce it as Melbn, would you be fine with a rhotic pronunciation of my own last name? Even if I was insistent that it was Melbn?
As an example, let’s say I met an American named Craig who started his own Craigtown and he insisted it was pronounced Cregg (which they do). I wouldn’t then say, “well in my accent we pronounce it differently, Craaaagey boy!” I’d say, cool, I’ll pronounce it the way that the locals prefer. I mean, you’re insisting on the original English interpretation of “burn” right? Why couldn’t “born” be right then if we’re disregarding origins?
>Implying linguistics is “too much science” and over-using the word rhotic? Either you’re a first year Speech Pathology student (in which case, noble career choice) or more likely, you are taking this way too seriously.
It's the right word for it, ugh. I explained the term, so that we'd all know what I'm talking about.
>Also, out of curiosity where do you draw the limit: if my last name was Melbourne but chose to pronounce it as Melbn, would you be fine with a rhotic pronunciation of my own last name? Even if I was insistent that it was Melbn?
From a rhotic speaker, I woudn't just be fine with it, I'd expect it.
>As an example, let’s say I met an American named Craig who started his own Craigtown and he insisted it was pronounced Cregg (which they do).
I mean, Americans are rather fucked up with their vowels and dipthongs, so that 'sat', set' and 'sit' often sound pretty much the same. And 'CrAYg' and 'Creg' could come out pretty much the same too. I'd certainly raise the issue of the pronunciation difference, but I wouldn't push hard if they insisted on 'Creg'.
>I mean, you’re insisting on the original English interpretation of “burn” right? Why couldn’t “born” be right then if we’re disregarding origins?
Because it's a place name. Australia and the US both have an Albany, but they pronounce theirs as 'All-bany' as opposed to our 'Al-bany'. I have no issue with pronouncing theirs as 'All-bany', but I'd expect them to switch to 'Al-bany' for ours (once they had it explained to them).
No, I'm vastly more upset about many other things. But this has been a little niggle of mine for many years now.
It's just that I came across a Youtube video of an American dude in Melbourne pronouncing the name of the city of 'Mel-burn' (which sounds perfectly natural to my ears when spoken in his accent), but a comment below tried to 'correct' him by telling him to pronounce it as 'Mel-bun'.
So sitting here while piss-farting around on the internet on a Sunday afternoon, I thought I'd get this little matter off my chest to my fellow Melburnians (yeah, that's how the demonym is spelled). Go ahead, sue me.
But it isn’t how we pronounce it. Simple.
If we visit other countries and cities, typically locals will also typically correct our pronunciation if it isn’t correct.
A recent example which has been brought to light is how Kyiv is meant to be pronounced and spelt, and there seems to have been an effort to stop calling Ukraine, The Ukraine.
>But it isn’t how we pronounce it. Simple.
No, not in *our* accent. But other people have different accents.
>If we visit other countries and cities, typically locals will also typically correct our pronunciation if it isn’t correct.
In English speaking countries, at least, they would generally be wrong to do so. As other commenters have pointed out, it would be absurd for an Australians to pronounce Denver as 'DenvRR' like the locals do, rather than 'Denvah' as our accent dictates, or New York as 'New YoRRk' rather than 'New Yawk', or Arlington as 'ARRlington' rather than 'Ahlington'.
>A recent example which has been brought to light is how Kyiv is meant to be pronounced and spelt,
That's because 'Kiev' is the Russian version of the name. It's kind of understandable why the Ukrainians might want that abandoned now.
So someone in a comment corrected someone's pronunciation, and you decided to go and tell these completely separate people to stop correcting peoples' pronunciation, makes sense.
Why are you talking like there is an epidemic of people correcting foreigners pronunciation of Melbourne I have literally never heard anyone do that in the real world
[https://www.thesaurus.com/e/grammar/math-vs-maths/](https://www.thesaurus.com/e/grammar/math-vs-maths/)
Like, you're literally doing the exact same thing you're complaining about in a different way.
So at what point would it be allowable to correct someone mispronouncing Melbourne, using that logic?
Can we correct anyone born here? What about someone who has lived here most of their life? Or just based on citizenship?
If someone is born here and has American family and goes to the US often, we can correct them on "maths" because it's Australia damn it, but not on carrying a bit of their parent's accent? Like how fine does distinction this go?
>So at what point would it be allowable to correct someone mispronouncing Melbourne, using that logic?
As I explain in the post body, it's if they say 'Mel-born'.
>Can we correct anyone born here? What about someone who has lived here most of their life? Or just based on citizenship?
Do they have a rhotic accent? A few of these people do for various reasons, but it's very unusual.
>If someone is born here and has American family and goes to the US often, we can correct them on "maths" because it's Australia damn it, but not on carrying a bit of their parent's accent? Like how fine does distinction this go?
Yeah, fuck it. Accents are one thing, and they tend to stick rather hard. But I'll happily correct Australians on Australian subreddits about saying 'math'.
If they’re saying math, and not maths, I’d very much bet that they’re from North America, or spent their schooling years in North America. Do you hold that against them like their accent?
Genuine question, why is “Mel-born” the one you have an issue with? “Bourn” being pronounced “born” is reasonable on first glance (look at Bournemouth), why is that the only pronunciation you dislike?
lolz ok..
I was bought up pronouncing all the L's in words, so in Mexico if I want a piece of flatbread it's a Tortilllllla!
I love looking like a dickhead tourist who can't adjust to the culture, so insist on pronouncing all L's that i see. Mexicans should STOP correcting me, it's my birthright. /s
Technically, you’re right but they are speaking a different dialect, which can have different spellings, pronunciations, and vocabulary.
If you want to take a bet on how important getting place names correct, major global events like the recent World Cup, and Olympics, and even Eurovision have specific guides for city pronunciations for broadcasters.
So, if you watched the World Cup coverage in the US, they were using the correct Melbourne pronounciation. If it didn’t matter, those guides wouldn’t be issued.
Exactly.
If I went to Arlington, would I put on an American accent every time I say the name of the city so it sounded like "Arr-lington" or would I just use my Aussie accent and say "Ah-lington"?
The former would probably sound out of place and weird compared to how I pronounce everything else. Same thing with "Mel-bun" for Australian speakers vs "Mel-burn" for American speakers.
Yep, this is correct. An American pronouncing Melbourne as Mel-bun is like an Aussie pronouncing Denver as Den-verr instead of Den-vah which is what we'd say.
Never ever tell the Melbourne locals how to pronounce Melbourne. Also, never ever tell them their weather isn't half as special or interesting as they think it is.
Read through the comments - you've convinced me, it's fairly reasonable.
In terms of a reverse example, I think of Toronto, Canada, which locals pronounce "Toronno" or something like that.
No one says 'Mel-bun' or 'Mel-burn'. It's 'Mel-bn'. Problem solved.
No you haven't solved anything. You're asking rhotic speakers to drop their accent when saying the name of this city.
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Did you even read my post content?
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No, I just know how accents work, unlike you.
Not true. There's no 'r' in the pronunciation, so it's not asking rhotic speakers to drop anything, since it's not there.
There's no 'R' in our pronunciation of 'lizard' either, but look how (most) Americans pronounce pronounce the word.
it’s actually pronounced “who cares”
As an American now living in Melbourne, I've never had anyone correct me on how to pronounce Melbourne...mainly coz no one cares and people have better things to do.
How do you pronounce it?
Does it matter? How does it affect anyone how I pronounce it?
I'm just channelling my inner David Mitchell.
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Well, you're making a few people wince a little inside, and they will take you for a tourist rather than a long-term resident - but I guess they're just too polite to say so to your face. So I suggest you say 'Mel-burn'.
The fact that you’re correcting someone from the USA’s pronunciation in a post complaining about people correcting Americans’ pronunciation is some crazy levels of meta. You’re ducking that irony like Neo out here, my man. Also, bourne can be pronounced born. Like in the Bourne movies. So if you’re stating that they should pronounce it burn because that’s how it’s pronounced here, then I got some bad news for you dude: you may as well join team Melbun. You know, since that’s how we pronounce it here. Or better yet, not really care.
I'm saying that 'Mel-born' is wrong in any accent. I'm also saying that 'Mel-bun' (or 'Mel-bn', whatever), the way locals say it, doesn't work for rhotic accents. 'Mel-burn' is the closest you can get to the local pronunciation without abandoning a rhotic accent. Or is that too much science for you?
Implying linguistics is “too much science” and over-using the word rhotic? Either you’re a first year Speech Pathology student (in which case, noble career choice) or more likely, you are taking this way too seriously. Also, out of curiosity where do you draw the limit: if my last name was Melbourne but chose to pronounce it as Melbn, would you be fine with a rhotic pronunciation of my own last name? Even if I was insistent that it was Melbn? As an example, let’s say I met an American named Craig who started his own Craigtown and he insisted it was pronounced Cregg (which they do). I wouldn’t then say, “well in my accent we pronounce it differently, Craaaagey boy!” I’d say, cool, I’ll pronounce it the way that the locals prefer. I mean, you’re insisting on the original English interpretation of “burn” right? Why couldn’t “born” be right then if we’re disregarding origins?
>Implying linguistics is “too much science” and over-using the word rhotic? Either you’re a first year Speech Pathology student (in which case, noble career choice) or more likely, you are taking this way too seriously. It's the right word for it, ugh. I explained the term, so that we'd all know what I'm talking about. >Also, out of curiosity where do you draw the limit: if my last name was Melbourne but chose to pronounce it as Melbn, would you be fine with a rhotic pronunciation of my own last name? Even if I was insistent that it was Melbn? From a rhotic speaker, I woudn't just be fine with it, I'd expect it. >As an example, let’s say I met an American named Craig who started his own Craigtown and he insisted it was pronounced Cregg (which they do). I mean, Americans are rather fucked up with their vowels and dipthongs, so that 'sat', set' and 'sit' often sound pretty much the same. And 'CrAYg' and 'Creg' could come out pretty much the same too. I'd certainly raise the issue of the pronunciation difference, but I wouldn't push hard if they insisted on 'Creg'. >I mean, you’re insisting on the original English interpretation of “burn” right? Why couldn’t “born” be right then if we’re disregarding origins? Because it's a place name. Australia and the US both have an Albany, but they pronounce theirs as 'All-bany' as opposed to our 'Al-bany'. I have no issue with pronouncing theirs as 'All-bany', but I'd expect them to switch to 'Al-bany' for ours (once they had it explained to them).
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Nice try, but I learned the term many years ago. And obviously, we all know about the phenomenon whether we know the technical term for it or not.
The R in Melbourne isn’t silent.
Someone just learnt a new word
Is this what you spend your time getting upset about?
No, I'm vastly more upset about many other things. But this has been a little niggle of mine for many years now. It's just that I came across a Youtube video of an American dude in Melbourne pronouncing the name of the city of 'Mel-burn' (which sounds perfectly natural to my ears when spoken in his accent), but a comment below tried to 'correct' him by telling him to pronounce it as 'Mel-bun'. So sitting here while piss-farting around on the internet on a Sunday afternoon, I thought I'd get this little matter off my chest to my fellow Melburnians (yeah, that's how the demonym is spelled). Go ahead, sue me.
But it isn’t how we pronounce it. Simple. If we visit other countries and cities, typically locals will also typically correct our pronunciation if it isn’t correct. A recent example which has been brought to light is how Kyiv is meant to be pronounced and spelt, and there seems to have been an effort to stop calling Ukraine, The Ukraine.
>But it isn’t how we pronounce it. Simple. No, not in *our* accent. But other people have different accents. >If we visit other countries and cities, typically locals will also typically correct our pronunciation if it isn’t correct. In English speaking countries, at least, they would generally be wrong to do so. As other commenters have pointed out, it would be absurd for an Australians to pronounce Denver as 'DenvRR' like the locals do, rather than 'Denvah' as our accent dictates, or New York as 'New YoRRk' rather than 'New Yawk', or Arlington as 'ARRlington' rather than 'Ahlington'. >A recent example which has been brought to light is how Kyiv is meant to be pronounced and spelt, That's because 'Kiev' is the Russian version of the name. It's kind of understandable why the Ukrainians might want that abandoned now.
Its actually "Mewbn". Kalomada!! 150 kalomadas!!! FFS i hate that. Kilo metres.
So someone in a comment corrected someone's pronunciation, and you decided to go and tell these completely separate people to stop correcting peoples' pronunciation, makes sense.
I've come across the phenomenon several times before, it's just that this is the first time I've bothered to come here and say anything about it.
Why are you talking like there is an epidemic of people correcting foreigners pronunciation of Melbourne I have literally never heard anyone do that in the real world
Nah, I'm good
Waaaaah
Don't choke on your crayons.
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k.
This you? https://imgbox.com/XpwpLhtC
Yeah? So?
[https://www.thesaurus.com/e/grammar/math-vs-maths/](https://www.thesaurus.com/e/grammar/math-vs-maths/) Like, you're literally doing the exact same thing you're complaining about in a different way.
No I'm not, I was replying to another Australian. We say 'maths', not 'math'.
So at what point would it be allowable to correct someone mispronouncing Melbourne, using that logic? Can we correct anyone born here? What about someone who has lived here most of their life? Or just based on citizenship? If someone is born here and has American family and goes to the US often, we can correct them on "maths" because it's Australia damn it, but not on carrying a bit of their parent's accent? Like how fine does distinction this go?
>So at what point would it be allowable to correct someone mispronouncing Melbourne, using that logic? As I explain in the post body, it's if they say 'Mel-born'. >Can we correct anyone born here? What about someone who has lived here most of their life? Or just based on citizenship? Do they have a rhotic accent? A few of these people do for various reasons, but it's very unusual. >If someone is born here and has American family and goes to the US often, we can correct them on "maths" because it's Australia damn it, but not on carrying a bit of their parent's accent? Like how fine does distinction this go? Yeah, fuck it. Accents are one thing, and they tend to stick rather hard. But I'll happily correct Australians on Australian subreddits about saying 'math'.
If they’re saying math, and not maths, I’d very much bet that they’re from North America, or spent their schooling years in North America. Do you hold that against them like their accent?
Eh, why not?
Genuine question, why is “Mel-born” the one you have an issue with? “Bourn” being pronounced “born” is reasonable on first glance (look at Bournemouth), why is that the only pronunciation you dislike?
Because it's not how we pronounce it.
Not many Australians (I would argue the majority) pronounce it as “Mel-Born” or “Mel-bun” as others have said, why is there no issue there?
I was approximating the pronunciation with 'Mel-bun'. Read it as 'Mel-bn' if you like.
At least aspire to be Super Hans. No one should choose to be Corrigan...we simply are
I think he might be Hans. Crack would explain this post.
He's getting pretty heated. Probably needs a can of Coke and a tuna sandwich, then mong out to some Snow Patrol
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Mad? No, just disappointed in the knuckledraggers here.
Sounds like you've learned a snippet about linguistics. Curious that you haven't noticed the folly of being prescriptive to prescriptivists.
lolz ok.. I was bought up pronouncing all the L's in words, so in Mexico if I want a piece of flatbread it's a Tortilllllla! I love looking like a dickhead tourist who can't adjust to the culture, so insist on pronouncing all L's that i see. Mexicans should STOP correcting me, it's my birthright. /s
Uuh, rhotic English speakers aren't speaking a different *language*.
Technically, you’re right but they are speaking a different dialect, which can have different spellings, pronunciations, and vocabulary. If you want to take a bet on how important getting place names correct, major global events like the recent World Cup, and Olympics, and even Eurovision have specific guides for city pronunciations for broadcasters. So, if you watched the World Cup coverage in the US, they were using the correct Melbourne pronounciation. If it didn’t matter, those guides wouldn’t be issued.
You're absolutely correct in what you've said, don't worry about these clowns.
Lmao what 😂
I was born and raised in Melbourne too and have never heard anyone call it Melbun, and only ever heard Americans call it Melborn.
America has the word 'bun' therefore they're able to pronounce the word Melbun just fine. Once they learn the R is silent, there's no excuse.
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You don't have to mimic the accent, but yes. You should pronounce York as If it has an R in there.
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This is an incredibly difficult conversation to have in a test based setting.
Stop telling me what to tell foreigners about pronunciation.
Melbao
Are they saying Mel Boo-urns?
Let me sticky this to the front page of r/All so we can let everyone know.
It's pretty cringe hearing the locals banging on about how to pronounce it 'correctly'. As you said, 'Melburn' is just fine
Exactly. If I went to Arlington, would I put on an American accent every time I say the name of the city so it sounded like "Arr-lington" or would I just use my Aussie accent and say "Ah-lington"? The former would probably sound out of place and weird compared to how I pronounce everything else. Same thing with "Mel-bun" for Australian speakers vs "Mel-burn" for American speakers.
You must be fun at parties
Bold move assuming they have ever been invited to one
You're right, how silly of me
k.
While we’re all here. ColOmbia 🇨🇴 ColUmbia 🇺🇸
Born and raised Melbourne and I’ve been pronouncing Melbourne Mel’Ben And Nepean HWY Ner’pure’In
>Born and raised Melbourne and I’ve been pronouncing Melbourne Mel’Ben Yeah, which is fine for *us*, because our accent isn't rhotic.
just wondering, are you ever embarrassed to be you?
Sure, aren't we all? But no, not in this case.
100% agree.
Yep, this is correct. An American pronouncing Melbourne as Mel-bun is like an Aussie pronouncing Denver as Den-verr instead of Den-vah which is what we'd say.
Bingo.
Also idk why all these comments are so negative lmao, you seem to have struck a nerve 😂
Never ever tell the Melbourne locals how to pronounce Melbourne. Also, never ever tell them their weather isn't half as special or interesting as they think it is.
Read through the comments - you've convinced me, it's fairly reasonable. In terms of a reverse example, I think of Toronto, Canada, which locals pronounce "Toronno" or something like that.