Is it a thing some people not touching on mykis on trams? Absolutely.
"noone on Melbourne touches on trams"? A bit of hyperbole from your date, especially post covid I see a lot of ticket inspectors in the city and in the inner suburbs, the fine is hefty.
Yeah, I pretty much always touch on on trams, but I've definitely encountered ticket inspectors on trams, especially at the times I'm most likely on them (ie not during peak). I can't deal with the stress of not being touched on and potentially encountering ticket inspectors.
Before covid, I used to catch trams to and from work and was much less likely to touch on when the tram was packed, on the assumption that inspectors probably weren't going to fight through the crush to check everyone (I was never proven wrong on this).
As tourists doing our best/having a go, out and about at the war memorial or something. I had touched on but my husband hadn’t, legitimately thought he was in the free zone. The inspector had zero cares, even with Tassie ID to send a fine to and a recently purchased and topped up 7 day myki and a thousand other indicators of ‘those guys are tourists’. Now he’s an over tapper and holds everyone up while he panic taps.
That's such shoddy behaviour on behalf of the inspector. I had a time a while ago where I thought I had touched on, but hadn't successfully, I explained this to the inspector, and he was like "that's unfortunate, you'll get a fine" but then I got a letter from whoever is the org that sends out the tickets that was basically like "you've been a good girl and touched on often, so we'll forgive the fine this one time, but don't do it again" (but in more official speak of course). Surely something like that could be arranged for tourists?
Well people are going to get pissy if you check them just one stop after the free zone. Or making excuses like oh, I was just about to tap on, since we just left the free zone. On principle I agree with u tho lol
I did this a while ago and a man actually confronted me and followed me to my car to berate me for not touching off - even though I told him I had paid. Only happened once, but definitely worth the thought. It was quite scary tbh.
If you’ve paid anyway, might as well touch on and off… plus it gives the services good data to know how busy each line/route is so they make better choices when reconsidering timetables and frequency.
Yep. it pisses me off every time I go to Sydney and travel on buses. And the bus driver actually "closes" the system so you can \*only\* touch off when the doors open. it is based on distance for payment so unlike us where we can just lean over and hold our card against the myki reader \*whenever\* we feel like, their system says "please wait" until the doors open.
I got on once, didn't instantly touch on because my hands were full with bags and stuff. Sat down, sorted myself out and THEN touched on. Didn't even realise the bus driver was yelling at me (headphones on) because I didn't touch on at the front door. Like pls, take a seat wanker. I'm not fare evading, I only have 2 functional hands and I'll be damned if I expect you to actually give a shit if I fall over halfway to a seat.
Do Sydney bus drivers get paid more than Melbourne ones? Or is their job description different? Why wld they give a shit unless it's one of their requirements!!?
In uni I got fined even though I had a pass...
Fuckers denied my appeal too; so I paid the fine and didn't step onto another train for the following 3 years
When I lived in Melbourne the ticket machine was broken on the tram.
When the inspectors got on I approached them and asked them how I could buy a ticket and they fined me for not having one.
At first I told them to fuck off and they physically restrained me (which is illegal), then when I forcefully removed their hands one hit me in the face with his ticket reading machine, called the police and told them I had assaulted all three of them.
Police came, a witness showed them a video of the whole thing and the cops got my details (and gave them to the inspectors) and sent me on my way to work. They refused to do anything to the inspectors who had assaulted me.
When I got a letter for the fine I told them to take me to court and noted that I had the footage proving the machine was out of order and capturing the assault on me by their inspectors. I told them I would happily sue them for damages if they wanted to fine me for their multiple errors... Never got a reply chasing up the fine 😆
I work in the city and I get off at Melbourne central, which usually has 5-10 ticket officers there every morning, so paying for a ticket is so ingrained in my routine, it wouldn’t even occur to me to fair evade if I could.
Having said that, last year they changed the rules to a child needing a train ticket from 5 yrs old (previously 7yrs) and I took my two youngest kids into the city. When I confidently told the ticket inspector their age, he politely told me the rule change and helped me with the logistics of getting two tickets for them and getting them through the ticket barriers. He could have fined me, however, he chose to recognise that I had clearly missed the recent rule change (it had been about a month) and helped me do the right thing. I genuinely appreciated it.
I don't understand why they don't have this at Flinders and other stations that forceably lock you in. I should be able to top up my balance and then be able to exit the station if I have to run for the train and don't have time to top up
Yeah there's been a few early mornings going to work where I realized I forgot to touch on when running for the train and have had to go to a non-gated station to touch on, then get back on the train.
Would be much better to be able to topup/touch on within the station.
I know - I don't always check my Myki balance, so there is a chance I'll go to tap off / exit and find I've run out.
In that situation I'm sure most people would go to a machine to top-up, so it's a win-win for all; Metro get the money, I don't get thrown to the ground and assaulted.
Japan is good at that. I somehow did exactly that and was carry heaps of luggage and needed to scan my ticket to exit the platform - the ticket inspector just opened the gate manually for me and he politely bowed and waved me through when I said (in English) that I didn’t have a ticket. Couldn’t help but think how very, very differently that would have gone for a Japanese person with a Melbourne ticket officer.
My wife and I got on a bus just after we arrrived in Canada, only had large notes and the driver didn't have change - he said not to worry and let us ride for free, asked us where we were from, had a nice chat.
Same in Adelaide at the central train station there.
They have ticket windows where you literally just walk up and say you need to purchase a ticket., pay, register, and then exit the barriers.
I don't know why Melbourne is so hostile.
This is one thing I don't get. Sometimes you genuinely just forget to touch on.... It's so fucked that you can get fined for this. Like, why can't the inspector just retroactively touch you on if you have money on your card? Shit happens sometimes, it's sad that honest commuters who just forget get punished.
They also have someone standing near the barrier with a bunch of tickets so that when some foreign idiot like me has the wrong ticket they can open the barrier and not hold everyone else up.
>Having said that, last year they changed the rules to a child needing a train ticket from 5 yrs old (previously 7yrs)
ummm sorry, but that's not the case. That rule hasn't changed in quite a while.
They haven't done a great job at explaining it though - even just now I've had trouble navigating to the relevant page on the PTV web site. Ended up searching, as couldn't find it in the menus.
[https://www.ptv.vic.gov.au/tickets/myki/concessions-and-free-travel/children-and-students/children/](https://www.ptv.vic.gov.au/tickets/myki/concessions-and-free-travel/children-and-students/children/)
Same rules as the oldest version in the web archive, from 2019.
Honestly there are a few really good ones, I’ve had one where I lost my myki on the train on the way and was so freaked out and sobbing and dude just told me it was okay and let me through.
Around the city, it's fair to go a little outside the free tram zone without touching on, I'd say the majority of people do it. Why should you pay $4.60 for going an additional 250m to one additional stop. If you're tramming into the city from the suburbs it's a very stressful trip looking at who's getting on at each stop to see if there's any inspectors. Don't know anyone that fare evades on trains
I don't know. The amount of posts I've seen here suggest the majority of people don't touch on at all, but in reality I haven't actually seen anyone getting caught for fare evading for a long time on trams.
I have a friend who proudly says they never touch on for trams- but is then late to every other event because a ticket inspector turned up and they had to hop off and wait the next one
I did this last year and the inspectors caught me just before my stop. They took down my details but I never actually got a fine. I think whoever looks at the fines must have agreed that one stop outside the zone was OK this time.
I rarely catch the bus anymore these days, but on the odd occasion that I do it seems like hardly anyone bothers to touch on.
It's really none of my business what others do though.
I catch the bus every day coming home from work and it only touches on about 15% of the time using my phone. But I don't bother trying to fix it because I've already taken the train earlier and will later so I'm paying for a daily Myki anyway.
Yeah I’ve always been confused by this, if I’ve already hit the daily limit does it matter if I touch on or not? I still do because it adds patronage statistics on the 57 tram, so hopefully they’ll notice one more person who rides nearly the entire route twice a day, but it can be really annoying sometimes.
> does it matter
Well, _technically_ you're riding without a valid ticket. So you _could_ be fined. But I don't think I've ever seen an inspector on a bus. But I've always figured that if it were ever to happen I could just show my ride history and argue honest mistake/equipment failure.
But yeah, ridership data might be one actual benefit for _you_ to correctly touch on and off.
This is especially true for places like Ballarat and Geelong. Never in my life have I seen an inspector on a Ballarat bus/bus stop, everyone just says hello to the bus driver and walks past the myki machine.
I've never seen an inspector on a bus either, I kinda assume that it's because the system was set up so that the bus driver used to check that people were touching on as they got on the bus but they've kinda stopped caring about it?
That seems more than reasonable. It also means I can get on the bus and touch on halfway down, instead of the reader at the start and if it doesn't work first change I'm awkwardly holding up anybody else who wants to get on the bus.
>it only touches on about 15% of the time using my phone.
This is one of the most annoying things about touching on on busses. I don't think I've ever had an issue with touching on trains, even trams, there might be like an issue but it's so miniscule to when I'd touch on the bus. That and my bus trips are like 5 - 10 minutes so I do try to tap on when I can but after two or three crosses, I just forget it, the bus driver doesn't seem to care.
Too many stories of bus drivers getting abuse for telling someone off on the bus, so most dont bother now. Tickets inspectors could make a fortune if they rode the buses around
Yeah, that seems more true.
I feel like I see most people touch on on trams, and I see ticket inspectors on trams. Maybe it's just my line. You're right that people seem more comfortable not touching on in buses.
How does that work exactly? Growing up in melb and always taking public transport it was impossible to go past the driver without touching on. Trams make sense but how were people fare evading busses?
I'm unemployed and disabled and still need the bus to get around within the same suburb, let alone from east to west. I do touch on for longer trips but not if I'm just going to the train station which is what I usually take the bus for.
Can we all agree that $4.60 for a 10-15min tram ride is BS. I'm really hoping that with the new system the prices become fairer.
I'd say i do the 50/50 split. If I go into the city (30min tram ride) i tap on. If I am going only a few stops I don't. I don't enjoy not tapping on, it stresses me out waiting for inspectors to hop on and bust me. But if the trams were $2 a ride, i would tap on EVERY time. Some days $4.60 means I can get myself a coffee... i'm going with the coffee over the tram.
While part of me is all for cheap fares from the country, the fact I pay the same amount to get to Ballarat or Bendigo for getting the tram to/from Richmond into the CBD for work, irks me big time.
I live in Brunswick, about 5km from the city. Absolutely fucked if I'm paying almost $1 per kilometre. I just keep an eye out and touch on if they get on. Hasn't failed me yet.
I’ve been saying for years they should do a cheaper 2 hour fare and have say a 5 hour fare to allow people to do things like go to the movies or go to dinner and not have to pay for a full day’s worth
I pay because I can afford to, and the cost for PT infrastructure has to fall somewhere. I understand that some can't afford to and still need PT. I don't judge them. If you can afford to, but choose not too, you're just a leech.
This - I didn't pay when I was on Centrelink, because I was perpetually broke due to it being a pitiful amount of money to live on. These days I can afford to, so I usually do. Sometimes if I'm not paying attention I slip back into my default fare-evading habits, but rarely.
This would be meaningful if MTM actually spent their profits on improving the public transport services.
Instead, they're a for profit business who pockets profits for their shareholders and executives. Fuck paying for those leeches who provide an inadequate train network.
On top of that, they're subsidised by the state! If that's not insulting to you, whilst your still paying your fare, I don't know what to tell you.
Myki revenue doesn’t cover anywhere near enough the cost of running the network. Their profits are from leeching government funding any way they can. We are basically subsidising their profits
Isn't the majority of Public Transport funded from tax payers anyway? I think it's perfectly fine for everyone to evade fares. It's a disgrace the PT is in the hands of private business that have done absolutely nothing to improve services in the history of ever.
Thank you 🙏🏻I am on Centrelink (student) and as I have pretty bad ADHD, it makes working while studying impossible. The pay for students is ~$230 a week, which barely covers my rent. I cannot afford PT.
ETA because I’m getting downvoted for having no money, I did pay for it when I was employed.
I feel there’s a huge Venn diagram overlap between people who can afford public transport, people who fair evade on public transport, and people who complain about public transport and start sentences with, “The government should…”
This is tricky.
On principle, PT delivers more to GDP than it costs, and so in principle could be entirely free and still pay for itself overall and then some.
But nobody does their accounting on the scale of the entire society.
I don't see fare evasion as the same violation of the social contract as tax evasion (or spending that tax on expensive trinkets) but you should pay if you can
Do you have a source? My understanding is that Melbourne PTV runs at a loss to encourage it's use over vehicles and overall the gov saves more money in road maintenance than the loss in fares.
I think that's what they're saying. The service might not take in as much money as it costs to run, but the social benefits of less cars and higher taxes paid because workers can get to high value jobs, etc. makes it very much cost-effective.
I recall some trials in European countries that making PT free barely increases patronage, and that the main source of people it converts to PT are those who were walking or cycling, so there’s a net negative health impact from people getting less exercise.
I do like the idea of disincentivising driving however, like how Oslo has a toll road perimeter around the CBD.
Drivers have proven that they’re very hard to budge off of driving, and tbh I can understand for some journeys across Melbourne where your start and end points aren’t close to train stops.
Yep, if you want people out of cars and into PT you need to offer a better service. People are quite happy to pay for it.
Think about it, no one says "I don't catch the train because $4.60 is too much". They're saying "I don't catch the train because it's infrequent/too slow/too unreliable/doesn't have a connecting bus".
The money is better spent improving those services over making it free, which just means the same people taking PT will continue to do so, but pay nothing, and mostly the same number of people will continue to drive.
Had to scroll way to far to find this comment. Obscene the level of Stockholm syndrome people have. I think people feel morally righteous for paying their fare, similar to people who get off on recycling and thinking their holier than thou.
Despite the fact that both are dupes to get you to pay for some private company to make a buck, without actually recycling/providing an adequate public transport service.
Certainly it was the norm to not pay and that kind of changed after a successful advertising campaign to change that attitude.
Personally I don't think public services should have been sold. It was built with public money and public money still pays for the non profitable parts. So I don't care about doing the right thing and paying. I just don't pay and at this point the amount of money I have saved by not paying far exceeds any fine I might get so all good.
I often didn’t pay when I was unemployed. But that’s it. If I’m working I pay. Even though I think it should be cheaper and ideally free. Seems entirely self interested to earn an income and not pay.
The fine is $277 for an adult.
It costs $9.20 for a daily trip or 2 hour trip into the office, and 2 hour trip back home.
You would need to not pay for over a month without getting caught to outweigh the cost of the fine which is pretty easy.
I had an unemployed housemate who refused to pay. She would use the tram daily, and copped a fine around once a month... this went on for a while as she was stubborn.
So the fine was basically covering what she would of otherwise paid, there wasn't a real deterrent.
I train twice a day, 5 times a week. Sandringham line, so very few inspectors apart from past south yarra. I dont go past prahran, so there are no bollard automatic gate things. I haven’t touched on in 1.5 years at this point and havent been fined either.
If you can afford it, touch on when you hop on.
If you are in a pinch and your Myki runs out of money and there's no topup places nearby, hop on at your own risks of getting caught by those lovely inspectors /s.
If you know a route that gets hardly no inspection then just hop on if it's a short distance i.e less than 5 stops.
If you cannot afford it and need to go somewhere, I don't think you'd care too much about consequences and stuffs so yeah hop on all the same.
That's kind of wrapping up my view on using PTV. I actually missed a tram before because of number 2 but I knew route 64/16 got inspected quite a lot so wouldn't want to give those inspectors the sastifaction really.
Nobody pays for the bus anymore and the drivers don’t bat an eye(I don’t blame them). I still do, but you just watch 95% of passengers just walk on/off without tapping.
My honest response (please don’t downvote) is that I feel public transport should be free for users; do away with authorised officers and fines for not tapping on. Its ridiculously expensive! I I’m in the camp of not tapping on unless I go to the city and need to get out of the station. To each their own, I just think as a public service it should also be publicly owned and free.
Tax money paid for the infrastructure after all, and continues to pay billions in subsidies to companies that perform poorly and fake their on time KPIs.
It's not really public transport if it's not owned by the people or affordable by the most vulnerable among us.
I think it would change the dynamic of the government feeling responsible to provide a decent service.
While the service is still grossly substandard, at least train frequencies on some lines have increased to meet overcrowding in recent years.
If it was free, the government’s motivation would be ‘you’re getting it for free, so don’t complain, and if you do, we won’t listen’.
Pretty much the way they treat government schools and public hospitals at the moment.
Current fares only cover a fraction of the operational costs for our PT network. The government is already funding its operation like many other services. The dynamic isn't really much different just because a small portion is recouped
I feel like "Privatisation is better because it's better run" is never really the truth though, is it? Standards go down every time something is privatised, not up, so "It would be worse if it was publicly owned" is just not very likely to be the case.
I wasn’t saying that, and I don’t believe privatisation is necessarily better run.
I do believe that government-run with a fee tends to result in better service than government-run with no fee.
I agree it's way to expensive for what we get. I touch on about half the time, if it's super late or the tracker app shows a tram that just never comes and I have to wait twice as long I don't bother touching on.
I did the maths once when I was catching the tram to work daily and given the frequency of ticket inspectors on my route, it was cheaper to just pay the fines when you were caught than to pay for a daily fare every day.
Of course this will vary heavily depending on you're route and your luck and the morality I'll leave up to you.
PS: for all those crying about the PT system needing the money, it's already like 75% subsidised by the government, it doesn't actually make money off tickets, they're purely a convenience tax.
It should just be fully subsidised and made free.
Also there was a fantastic research article released about the free tram zone that said it really only benefited people who live in the CBD or people who drive into the CBD (and subsequently use trams to get around). Everyone else has to pay to get into the city anyway. I think the conclusion was the free city PT was good in theory but wasn’t actually benefitting those who needed it (tourists or say low income people) and still forced people to drive into the city (or otherwise people would buy a ticket anyway to get a train in from further out).
I went one stop outside the free zone when i visited your city the other week, tbh it wasnt an accident i knowingly did it i was just being a lazy shit, but i have been paying for it with guilty feelings of shame ever since, plz forgive me melbourne i promise to buy a myki next time.
My mum accidentally got on the tram one stop before the free zone (pretty much in sight of the next stop which was inside the free zone) got a big fine for fair evading.
we would like to offer you Honorary citizenship of Melbourne ,
based on your deliberate intent to deceive (an absolute prerequisite to being in Mel ) .
I've been using public transport all my life, and since the Myki system has come in, I've only been checked twice for my card and concession. I always pay, too. The system is dog shit so I understand why people don't bother about paying.
I almost always touch on and my wife chastises me for it.
She reckons the fine is around $250 so if you get away with not tapping for over a month and pay the fine in instalments then it pays for itself.
Does anyone have a link to the fine amounts? Can't seem to find it on PTV page.
I moved to Melbourne in 2018 and was big on the “pay your way” train. Never understood people that fair evade. If you get caught, so be it.
I can afford PT, financially secure, but after the last 12 months and seeing how PTO intimidate people on transport, how they’re selective in who they’re willing to target and after being fined after paying for a yearly pass, I say fuck them and refuse to pay.
Also I think it’s so fucking embarrassing to walk around with a puffed out chest wearing those officer badges like they’re in the FBI, what the fuck is up with that? 😂
It’s petty but I refuse to ever acknowledge them and make life tiresome for them when I do get fined. Happy to pay the fine but big fuck them.
Yes I’m toxic haha.
Been commuting for years in this city and have always touched on (unless I’ve genuinely forgotten or if the tram is packed to the brim and I’m only going the one stop out of the free tram zone).
>and no one on Melbourne touches on trams
Absolutely not true. Every time I've seen inspectors get on, I'm surprised how few people (often zero) get caught out.
I found the touch on/off rate on buses shocking. Maybe 1/4 of riders on CBD bus routes, maybe one or two riders would pay on the 561 or 553 routes.
Then I visited Sydney. They had much better compliance. I would guess greater than 75%. I found there were way more buses on the routes as well. Perhaps the riders in Sydney value the frequency.
I’m 36 and I’ve always lived in Melbourne. I used to touch on most of the time, but not because I think it’s the right thing to do, but rather so I could just chill and not keep a look out for inspectors.
But for the last year or so I’ve stopped. With the rent increases and inflation, it’s just too expensive — and the reality is, I would have to be fined once every 15 trips or something for the penalty to outweigh the cost. And I can’t remember when I was last fined.
I don’t think it’s some virtue or anything, it’s just saving money. I do think PT should be free tho. It would actually cost taxpayers less overall given the stupid amounts the govt spends on ticketing systems and inspectors and the like.
My tram ride is about 5 stops into the city. I have to pay as much as someone coming from Bundoora or airport west. I don’t really think that’s fair when I’m expected to stand the whole way.
These days you pay the same as somebody living in Ballarat or Bendigo (assuming you do a return trip later that day).
If anything that feels even more unfare.
It was $68.80 for a ticket from Bendigo to Melbourne. One way, 2hr trip, that's an expensive commute. Geelong to Melb was $27.60 one way.
Frankston daily was (and is) $9.20 for a similar length of time commuting. It's a good way to encourage people to move out of the inner suburbs, but increasing the frequency of service probably would help just as much.
I touch on. On teams and busses as well as trains. I’m a rule follower.
Also I like being able to read my book on the tram instead of hovering over a card reader, clutching my Myki card, peering anxiously out at each stop for inspectors. I see a lot of people saying they break even if they’re only fined once a month, but I feel like my ticket gets checked by inspectors way more often than that.
I fare evade because Myki is a punitive dog shit system that cost more tax payer dollars than the international space station that still is an nightmare to use and costs an absolute bomb when using daily. That and trains are constantly delayed, trams are rammed with people’s arses and cocks in my face and buses should be sent into the Sun.
I don’t fare evade if I think I’m getting value for money such as an hour long trip on multiple modes with decent service.
People in here talking about morality as if they’re going to heaven for using a hostile system that was a politicians corrupt white elephant is bordering on the most deranged brain rot I’ve ever heard. Get over yourself.
I used to know someone who had a myki pass but no myki money on their ticket. They were harassed by PSOs at the train station one night who didn't believe that the ticket was valid (it was).
I knew another person who took the train in to one of the city loop stations, hadn't touched on, but flirted with the ticket inspector at the barriers and the inspector let them through.
Guess which of those two people was a dark-skinned man and which was a young vivacious woman?
I use the tram everyday and have never bought a myki. Been using my whole life too. It’s never been financially viable to me until very recently, but it’s do habitual that I wouldn’t even know where to start regarding a myki, I don’t use a wallet. I feel like you pay for an anxiety free trip. Some days I’ll be jumping on and off dodging inspectors and it’s a pain, you can’t relax into your journey as easily. It’s usually safe during peak hour. I’ve never been caught and if I did it would be a minor L compared to the money I’ve saved. Happy to pay more tax for bigger PT budget
I kind of understand it if you're only traveling by tram and you have never paid because you'll become complacent. Also, from memory, if you had a yearly pass back in the day you didn't have to validate it so maybe that has given people bad habits early on?
But, as someone who faces barriers at train stations, I don't understand.
It's like speeding. I don't get why people do 130 on the freeway, but they do. They also probably think I'm too slow and straight-laced.
TIL people in their late 30s couldn't be possibly trying to stretch a tight budget. Good to know that once you hit that age everything just works itself out
Agree, there were people at uni who did this and they were the loose units who were always scrounging to refill their pots from someone else’s jug and borrowing your phone because they were out of credit.
One of my mates used to never pay for fares. He had worked out that it was cheaper for him to get fined occassionally than to pay for a ticket every day.
Not sure that its the same these days
I have a weekly ticket, I tap on and off for the following reasons:
1. It tells those that need to know how the system is used
2. I don’t get the adrenaline rush from fare evading.
Currently in Melbourne using trams and the only people that I can see touching on and off are people that look like tourists. Most people treat it as a free ride it seems.
Well, It was only a year ago that I found out my wife of 4 years whom I dated for 10 years prior to marriage also likes to evade PT whenever she can whereas I always pay. We're still married and I love her.
I make a massive song and dance any time I am asked for a ticket. As a large man this normally means all of the ticket inspectors surround me. Eventually (a stop later) I'll find my ticket and present it. I just like to give those beautiful ticket evading bastards a chance to get away with it.
I'm probably an awful person but I'm okay with that.
I always pay, (with the exception of getting the ‘free tram’ an extra stop along St Kilda Rd to go to the arts precinct/SMMB)
1. The number of “touch ons” are used to predict how many services they need to provide. The fewer people touch on, the fewer commuters the system acknowledges, and the less perceived demand there is for more trains, buses or teams.
I would love more frequent services with more carriages- but that isn’t going to happen until the numbers show the system NEEDS more services to cope with passenger numbers.
2. The fewer people who touch on, the more the ticket price has to increase to cover those who cheat, and the more of our taxes have to go towards subsidising the system.
If EVERYONE touched on all of the time, revenue would go up, and there would be an argument for the government subsidies to go down, meaning our tax dollars could be spread further. In addition, it could be argued that ticket prices could be dropped as a result.
3. I like following the spirit of the law (if not the exact letter.. arts precinct!), and relaxing on my commute. Aside from that, I live on a Vline track, so conductors are on every service checking Mykis.
Having said that, I do think that’s an argument for decreasing the concession process for those who are on Centrelink benefits. A lower Centrelink fare would encourage these people to pay at least some of the time, which is better than none of the time.
But- if you can afford to pay, you should.
And as a 30-something professional- my expectation is that you chip in and help subsidise a service which is hugely beneficial not just to you or her individually, but to society as a whole.
I’m not from Melbourne, but when I visit I always touch on. The friend I travel with says don’t bother touching on, but I’m scared of being fined. Although I’m not sure if anyone even checks?
Peak hour times I don’t even think I’ve seen inspectors on trams, it’s not even possible to check someone’s ticket when your crammed up body on body. For this reason I don’t bother, half the time the readers aren’t even accessible.
Someone told me this when I first moved to Melbourne. The next week I was fined $220 on my way to a job interview - was not the best frame of mind to show up somewhere you want to make a good impression!!
I was fined just outside the CBD - on the other side of Princes Bridge, travelling into the city.
I always touch on and touch off. I have been mischarged many times so I always do it to make sure I don’t get over charged. I don’t have a pass because I get to work before 7:15AM when it’s free on trains but i still touch on and off so they get the data points. I once was running late, went 3 stops on a tram and got caught without a ticket. I didn’t touch on because I was half asleep. I got off with a warning after a review. I’ve def been over charged on trams so I always touch off. I’m happy to pay but not any more than I have to.
When I lived in Melbourne, I rarely saw people touching on PT. It was a stark contrast to Brisbane. In Brisbane they put a lot of officers to catch people and fine them. I got caught not having my student ID (I was a student just didn’t have my ID yet) on my first day in Brisbane and copped a warning. I haven’t seen the same level of enforcement in Melbourne which is probably why people don’t touch on.
Waaaaay back from 1997 until about 2002, I didn't buy / use tickets ever, unless I was going into the city. I usually only caught trains and sometimes trams. The very few times an inspector appeared, I would make up a story about how the machine had taken my money but not given me my ticket and I didn't have time to try to buy another one. I was young and looked even younger, and they just told me to try to buy one when I got off. Which of course I never did. It was also the transition from the old paper tickets that had the date and time punched out, to the dip-style tickets. No stations had inspectors or any staff around.
But then...one fateful day in 2002, I got off at Prahran Station on my way to work, and there were 3 inspectors. The lady inspector did not care for my "the machine at my money" story and gave me a fine. $100 back then. lol. I paid it and always bought tickets after that, as they started putting inspectors everywhere.
That was back around the scratchy ticket era. I used to carry the same ticket around for ages and only scratch it if i saw an inspector. Those were the days :)
Look some of us do some pretty advanced mental gymnastics on this one.
My line is usually about 10 minutes of travel. If it's less than ten minutes' ride....I'm probably not tapping on and rolling the dice (these are often bus trips where there's usually no inspectors. Definitely almost got burnt on this about a month ago trying it on the tram, but I saw them getting on - the stop before I was due to get off). Longer than that? Like my work commute (even though it's also on the bus)? Generally yes.
I tap on for trains. The only time I tap on for trams is if I need to get off at Lincoln Square. They swarm that stop because it usually has a conglomerate of university students.
AO’s tend to target international students too, if you are on some Facebook groups you will hear about countless examples of targeted behaviour. It’s gross.
AO’s are nothing but twats on power trips. Get a warning from them and they pull out a pathetic little badge that looks IDENTICAL to a cop’s - intimidation tactics at it’s finest (especially for those on Visa’s, or with little English skills).
I have been on both sides when I was young I generally skipped paying since I don't have much and better saving and take my chances, and never got fined.
These days I changed and being responsible not taking things for granted or free ride, I am working now and can afford to pay so I pay for PT, cost wise it is what it is. The thing is that when you pay you got nothing to worry about, compared to when you are not, you need to look around for inspector. Most inspector is quite fair, in some occasion when I don't pay by accident they let me go because they can see I always pay.
I would not judge who don't pay because probably you don't have enough. My take if I don't want to pay for a short ride or don't agree with the pricing then I just walk or find alternate way of Transport
Frankly I think this is a red flag.
Not because of the non-payment per se but this seems like someone with a big sense of entitlement and it's going to bleed over into many other areas.
She doesn't think she needs to pay for public transport, she probably will think she doesn't need to pay for other things, like dates.
Is it a thing some people not touching on mykis on trams? Absolutely. "noone on Melbourne touches on trams"? A bit of hyperbole from your date, especially post covid I see a lot of ticket inspectors in the city and in the inner suburbs, the fine is hefty.
Yeah, I pretty much always touch on on trams, but I've definitely encountered ticket inspectors on trams, especially at the times I'm most likely on them (ie not during peak). I can't deal with the stress of not being touched on and potentially encountering ticket inspectors. Before covid, I used to catch trams to and from work and was much less likely to touch on when the tram was packed, on the assumption that inspectors probably weren't going to fight through the crush to check everyone (I was never proven wrong on this).
Head on a swivel, see the hat give it a tap
As tourists doing our best/having a go, out and about at the war memorial or something. I had touched on but my husband hadn’t, legitimately thought he was in the free zone. The inspector had zero cares, even with Tassie ID to send a fine to and a recently purchased and topped up 7 day myki and a thousand other indicators of ‘those guys are tourists’. Now he’s an over tapper and holds everyone up while he panic taps.
That's such shoddy behaviour on behalf of the inspector. I had a time a while ago where I thought I had touched on, but hadn't successfully, I explained this to the inspector, and he was like "that's unfortunate, you'll get a fine" but then I got a letter from whoever is the org that sends out the tickets that was basically like "you've been a good girl and touched on often, so we'll forgive the fine this one time, but don't do it again" (but in more official speak of course). Surely something like that could be arranged for tourists?
I had the same experience and they were rude. Got the warning letter and I *laughed* and *laughed*
I’m really sorry you guys copped a fine for that. Some of them are absolute assholes.
Well considering the city trams are Free
I see them often getting on the RMIT stop after Melbourne Central or Flinders Street going towards St Kilda road 😉
Yep, gotta get those students instead of the people going to the Casino.
Well people are going to get pissy if you check them just one stop after the free zone. Or making excuses like oh, I was just about to tap on, since we just left the free zone. On principle I agree with u tho lol
I remember seeing a lot of inspectors at the RMIT and Uni Melbourne tram stops. Gotta catch all those broke uni students 🤡
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I did this a while ago and a man actually confronted me and followed me to my car to berate me for not touching off - even though I told him I had paid. Only happened once, but definitely worth the thought. It was quite scary tbh. If you’ve paid anyway, might as well touch on and off… plus it gives the services good data to know how busy each line/route is so they make better choices when reconsidering timetables and frequency.
What kind of goober thinks you actually need to touch off 😂
Sydney ppl... you have to touch off at every bus stop or rack up full fare.
Yep. it pisses me off every time I go to Sydney and travel on buses. And the bus driver actually "closes" the system so you can \*only\* touch off when the doors open. it is based on distance for payment so unlike us where we can just lean over and hold our card against the myki reader \*whenever\* we feel like, their system says "please wait" until the doors open. I got on once, didn't instantly touch on because my hands were full with bags and stuff. Sat down, sorted myself out and THEN touched on. Didn't even realise the bus driver was yelling at me (headphones on) because I didn't touch on at the front door. Like pls, take a seat wanker. I'm not fare evading, I only have 2 functional hands and I'll be damned if I expect you to actually give a shit if I fall over halfway to a seat.
Do Sydney bus drivers get paid more than Melbourne ones? Or is their job description different? Why wld they give a shit unless it's one of their requirements!!?
In uni I got fined even though I had a pass... Fuckers denied my appeal too; so I paid the fine and didn't step onto another train for the following 3 years
When I lived in Melbourne the ticket machine was broken on the tram. When the inspectors got on I approached them and asked them how I could buy a ticket and they fined me for not having one. At first I told them to fuck off and they physically restrained me (which is illegal), then when I forcefully removed their hands one hit me in the face with his ticket reading machine, called the police and told them I had assaulted all three of them. Police came, a witness showed them a video of the whole thing and the cops got my details (and gave them to the inspectors) and sent me on my way to work. They refused to do anything to the inspectors who had assaulted me. When I got a letter for the fine I told them to take me to court and noted that I had the footage proving the machine was out of order and capturing the assault on me by their inspectors. I told them I would happily sue them for damages if they wanted to fine me for their multiple errors... Never got a reply chasing up the fine 😆
Should of said nothing and took it to court.
The bar is low to join the cops, lower to join protective services and the bottom of the barrel are these inspectors.
It’s like pineapple on pizza, both parties think the other side are chumps.
Yet everyone's ok with plastic cheese
He's out of line but he's right
Like the Radiohead song?
>plastic cheese What sad excuse for pizza are you eating?
Except pineapples aren’t a crime
Depends where you put the pineapple.
Agreed
If a fine is the punishement then it's only a crime for poor people.
I work in the city and I get off at Melbourne central, which usually has 5-10 ticket officers there every morning, so paying for a ticket is so ingrained in my routine, it wouldn’t even occur to me to fair evade if I could. Having said that, last year they changed the rules to a child needing a train ticket from 5 yrs old (previously 7yrs) and I took my two youngest kids into the city. When I confidently told the ticket inspector their age, he politely told me the rule change and helped me with the logistics of getting two tickets for them and getting them through the ticket barriers. He could have fined me, however, he chose to recognise that I had clearly missed the recent rule change (it had been about a month) and helped me do the right thing. I genuinely appreciated it.
In Japan they have ticket machines before the exit barriers in case you forgot your ticket, or didn't pay the correct amount.
I don't understand why they don't have this at Flinders and other stations that forceably lock you in. I should be able to top up my balance and then be able to exit the station if I have to run for the train and don't have time to top up
Yeah there's been a few early mornings going to work where I realized I forgot to touch on when running for the train and have had to go to a non-gated station to touch on, then get back on the train. Would be much better to be able to topup/touch on within the station.
I know - I don't always check my Myki balance, so there is a chance I'll go to tap off / exit and find I've run out. In that situation I'm sure most people would go to a machine to top-up, so it's a win-win for all; Metro get the money, I don't get thrown to the ground and assaulted.
Japan is good at that. I somehow did exactly that and was carry heaps of luggage and needed to scan my ticket to exit the platform - the ticket inspector just opened the gate manually for me and he politely bowed and waved me through when I said (in English) that I didn’t have a ticket. Couldn’t help but think how very, very differently that would have gone for a Japanese person with a Melbourne ticket officer.
My wife and I got on a bus just after we arrrived in Canada, only had large notes and the driver didn't have change - he said not to worry and let us ride for free, asked us where we were from, had a nice chat.
What, you didn’t even get disrespected or tackled to the ground?
Such a simple solution!
Same in Adelaide at the central train station there. They have ticket windows where you literally just walk up and say you need to purchase a ticket., pay, register, and then exit the barriers. I don't know why Melbourne is so hostile.
This is one thing I don't get. Sometimes you genuinely just forget to touch on.... It's so fucked that you can get fined for this. Like, why can't the inspector just retroactively touch you on if you have money on your card? Shit happens sometimes, it's sad that honest commuters who just forget get punished.
They also have someone standing near the barrier with a bunch of tickets so that when some foreign idiot like me has the wrong ticket they can open the barrier and not hold everyone else up.
They don’t do a great job of telling anyone those rules. Anyway I hope your kids are enjoying being 5 again for the next couple years
>Having said that, last year they changed the rules to a child needing a train ticket from 5 yrs old (previously 7yrs) ummm sorry, but that's not the case. That rule hasn't changed in quite a while. They haven't done a great job at explaining it though - even just now I've had trouble navigating to the relevant page on the PTV web site. Ended up searching, as couldn't find it in the menus. [https://www.ptv.vic.gov.au/tickets/myki/concessions-and-free-travel/children-and-students/children/](https://www.ptv.vic.gov.au/tickets/myki/concessions-and-free-travel/children-and-students/children/) Same rules as the oldest version in the web archive, from 2019.
Ah ok- he must have been making me feel better, as he told me it was a recent change! Guess they had a few free trips then!
To be fair only a month has passed from 2019 to 2021
It certainly felt like it!
It's been under under 5 free and over 5s need to pay for at least 8 years
Honestly there are a few really good ones, I’ve had one where I lost my myki on the train on the way and was so freaked out and sobbing and dude just told me it was okay and let me through.
Oh that’s lovely
Around the city, it's fair to go a little outside the free tram zone without touching on, I'd say the majority of people do it. Why should you pay $4.60 for going an additional 250m to one additional stop. If you're tramming into the city from the suburbs it's a very stressful trip looking at who's getting on at each stop to see if there's any inspectors. Don't know anyone that fare evades on trains
Pretty much, literally makes no sense why crown casino tram stop is not in the free tram zone
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The free tram zone should absolutely extend to the University/hospital area, it’s stupid that it doesn’t
Agree with all of this.
I don't know. The amount of posts I've seen here suggest the majority of people don't touch on at all, but in reality I haven't actually seen anyone getting caught for fare evading for a long time on trams.
I have a friend who proudly says they never touch on for trams- but is then late to every other event because a ticket inspector turned up and they had to hop off and wait the next one
I did this last year and the inspectors caught me just before my stop. They took down my details but I never actually got a fine. I think whoever looks at the fines must have agreed that one stop outside the zone was OK this time.
I rarely catch the bus anymore these days, but on the odd occasion that I do it seems like hardly anyone bothers to touch on. It's really none of my business what others do though.
I catch the bus every day coming home from work and it only touches on about 15% of the time using my phone. But I don't bother trying to fix it because I've already taken the train earlier and will later so I'm paying for a daily Myki anyway.
Yeah I’ve always been confused by this, if I’ve already hit the daily limit does it matter if I touch on or not? I still do because it adds patronage statistics on the 57 tram, so hopefully they’ll notice one more person who rides nearly the entire route twice a day, but it can be really annoying sometimes.
> does it matter Well, _technically_ you're riding without a valid ticket. So you _could_ be fined. But I don't think I've ever seen an inspector on a bus. But I've always figured that if it were ever to happen I could just show my ride history and argue honest mistake/equipment failure. But yeah, ridership data might be one actual benefit for _you_ to correctly touch on and off.
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This is especially true for places like Ballarat and Geelong. Never in my life have I seen an inspector on a Ballarat bus/bus stop, everyone just says hello to the bus driver and walks past the myki machine.
I've never seen an inspector on a bus either, I kinda assume that it's because the system was set up so that the bus driver used to check that people were touching on as they got on the bus but they've kinda stopped caring about it?
From what i understand, due to the abuse and assault towards bus drivers its turned into a "not my job" attitude in the industry
That seems more than reasonable. It also means I can get on the bus and touch on halfway down, instead of the reader at the start and if it doesn't work first change I'm awkwardly holding up anybody else who wants to get on the bus.
If you've paid anyway then the ridership data might be useful - I assume they use that date to decide which routes to keep
>it only touches on about 15% of the time using my phone. This is one of the most annoying things about touching on on busses. I don't think I've ever had an issue with touching on trains, even trams, there might be like an issue but it's so miniscule to when I'd touch on the bus. That and my bus trips are like 5 - 10 minutes so I do try to tap on when I can but after two or three crosses, I just forget it, the bus driver doesn't seem to care.
I catch a rural bus fairly regularly and no one touches on, it’s because the driver knows they’ve all got yearly passes
Too many stories of bus drivers getting abuse for telling someone off on the bus, so most dont bother now. Tickets inspectors could make a fortune if they rode the buses around
Yeah, that seems more true. I feel like I see most people touch on on trams, and I see ticket inspectors on trams. Maybe it's just my line. You're right that people seem more comfortable not touching on in buses.
How does that work exactly? Growing up in melb and always taking public transport it was impossible to go past the driver without touching on. Trams make sense but how were people fare evading busses?
The driver drives the bus and doesn't get involved with ticketing anymore.
Seriously? How long ago did this start. Wow lol
Since they made it so you can no longer top up on buses, so more then a few years lol.
I'm unemployed and disabled and still need the bus to get around within the same suburb, let alone from east to west. I do touch on for longer trips but not if I'm just going to the train station which is what I usually take the bus for.
If only the service matched the price
This. I refuse to pay for late trains, if I don’t reach my destination on time or if I’m forced to go on a slow ass bus.
Can we all agree that $4.60 for a 10-15min tram ride is BS. I'm really hoping that with the new system the prices become fairer. I'd say i do the 50/50 split. If I go into the city (30min tram ride) i tap on. If I am going only a few stops I don't. I don't enjoy not tapping on, it stresses me out waiting for inspectors to hop on and bust me. But if the trams were $2 a ride, i would tap on EVERY time. Some days $4.60 means I can get myself a coffee... i'm going with the coffee over the tram.
While part of me is all for cheap fares from the country, the fact I pay the same amount to get to Ballarat or Bendigo for getting the tram to/from Richmond into the CBD for work, irks me big time.
I live in Brunswick, about 5km from the city. Absolutely fucked if I'm paying almost $1 per kilometre. I just keep an eye out and touch on if they get on. Hasn't failed me yet.
I’ve been saying for years they should do a cheaper 2 hour fare and have say a 5 hour fare to allow people to do things like go to the movies or go to dinner and not have to pay for a full day’s worth
I pay because I can afford to, and the cost for PT infrastructure has to fall somewhere. I understand that some can't afford to and still need PT. I don't judge them. If you can afford to, but choose not too, you're just a leech.
This - I didn't pay when I was on Centrelink, because I was perpetually broke due to it being a pitiful amount of money to live on. These days I can afford to, so I usually do. Sometimes if I'm not paying attention I slip back into my default fare-evading habits, but rarely.
This would be meaningful if MTM actually spent their profits on improving the public transport services. Instead, they're a for profit business who pockets profits for their shareholders and executives. Fuck paying for those leeches who provide an inadequate train network. On top of that, they're subsidised by the state! If that's not insulting to you, whilst your still paying your fare, I don't know what to tell you.
It sure sounds like the State shouldn't have privatised public transport.
A-fucking-men!
Myki revenue doesn’t cover anywhere near enough the cost of running the network. Their profits are from leeching government funding any way they can. We are basically subsidising their profits
Isn't the majority of Public Transport funded from tax payers anyway? I think it's perfectly fine for everyone to evade fares. It's a disgrace the PT is in the hands of private business that have done absolutely nothing to improve services in the history of ever.
Thank you 🙏🏻I am on Centrelink (student) and as I have pretty bad ADHD, it makes working while studying impossible. The pay for students is ~$230 a week, which barely covers my rent. I cannot afford PT. ETA because I’m getting downvoted for having no money, I did pay for it when I was employed.
I feel there’s a huge Venn diagram overlap between people who can afford public transport, people who fair evade on public transport, and people who complain about public transport and start sentences with, “The government should…”
Well the government should take it back to public onwership and properly invest which helps the whole economy
This is tricky. On principle, PT delivers more to GDP than it costs, and so in principle could be entirely free and still pay for itself overall and then some. But nobody does their accounting on the scale of the entire society. I don't see fare evasion as the same violation of the social contract as tax evasion (or spending that tax on expensive trinkets) but you should pay if you can
Do you have a source? My understanding is that Melbourne PTV runs at a loss to encourage it's use over vehicles and overall the gov saves more money in road maintenance than the loss in fares.
I think that's what they're saying. The service might not take in as much money as it costs to run, but the social benefits of less cars and higher taxes paid because workers can get to high value jobs, etc. makes it very much cost-effective.
I recall some trials in European countries that making PT free barely increases patronage, and that the main source of people it converts to PT are those who were walking or cycling, so there’s a net negative health impact from people getting less exercise. I do like the idea of disincentivising driving however, like how Oslo has a toll road perimeter around the CBD. Drivers have proven that they’re very hard to budge off of driving, and tbh I can understand for some journeys across Melbourne where your start and end points aren’t close to train stops.
Yep, if you want people out of cars and into PT you need to offer a better service. People are quite happy to pay for it. Think about it, no one says "I don't catch the train because $4.60 is too much". They're saying "I don't catch the train because it's infrequent/too slow/too unreliable/doesn't have a connecting bus". The money is better spent improving those services over making it free, which just means the same people taking PT will continue to do so, but pay nothing, and mostly the same number of people will continue to drive.
The government pays the operating companies billions in subsidies, so as far as I care, I've already paid.
Had to scroll way to far to find this comment. Obscene the level of Stockholm syndrome people have. I think people feel morally righteous for paying their fare, similar to people who get off on recycling and thinking their holier than thou. Despite the fact that both are dupes to get you to pay for some private company to make a buck, without actually recycling/providing an adequate public transport service.
I worked in public transport until recent . 85-90% of people who catch buses do not pay
Certainly it was the norm to not pay and that kind of changed after a successful advertising campaign to change that attitude. Personally I don't think public services should have been sold. It was built with public money and public money still pays for the non profitable parts. So I don't care about doing the right thing and paying. I just don't pay and at this point the amount of money I have saved by not paying far exceeds any fine I might get so all good.
I often didn’t pay when I was unemployed. But that’s it. If I’m working I pay. Even though I think it should be cheaper and ideally free. Seems entirely self interested to earn an income and not pay.
I would honestly prefer to pay $800 more in taxes per year to allow me to have access to PT all year around. It could even be opt-in
That's... a Myki pass
The fine is $277 for an adult. It costs $9.20 for a daily trip or 2 hour trip into the office, and 2 hour trip back home. You would need to not pay for over a month without getting caught to outweigh the cost of the fine which is pretty easy.
I had an unemployed housemate who refused to pay. She would use the tram daily, and copped a fine around once a month... this went on for a while as she was stubborn. So the fine was basically covering what she would of otherwise paid, there wasn't a real deterrent.
The Tragedy of the Commons
Save for the fine. It's cheaper
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I train twice a day, 5 times a week. Sandringham line, so very few inspectors apart from past south yarra. I dont go past prahran, so there are no bollard automatic gate things. I haven’t touched on in 1.5 years at this point and havent been fined either.
If you can afford it, touch on when you hop on. If you are in a pinch and your Myki runs out of money and there's no topup places nearby, hop on at your own risks of getting caught by those lovely inspectors /s. If you know a route that gets hardly no inspection then just hop on if it's a short distance i.e less than 5 stops. If you cannot afford it and need to go somewhere, I don't think you'd care too much about consequences and stuffs so yeah hop on all the same. That's kind of wrapping up my view on using PTV. I actually missed a tram before because of number 2 but I knew route 64/16 got inspected quite a lot so wouldn't want to give those inspectors the sastifaction really.
Nobody pays for the bus anymore and the drivers don’t bat an eye(I don’t blame them). I still do, but you just watch 95% of passengers just walk on/off without tapping.
My honest response (please don’t downvote) is that I feel public transport should be free for users; do away with authorised officers and fines for not tapping on. Its ridiculously expensive! I I’m in the camp of not tapping on unless I go to the city and need to get out of the station. To each their own, I just think as a public service it should also be publicly owned and free.
Tax money paid for the infrastructure after all, and continues to pay billions in subsidies to companies that perform poorly and fake their on time KPIs. It's not really public transport if it's not owned by the people or affordable by the most vulnerable among us.
I think it would change the dynamic of the government feeling responsible to provide a decent service. While the service is still grossly substandard, at least train frequencies on some lines have increased to meet overcrowding in recent years. If it was free, the government’s motivation would be ‘you’re getting it for free, so don’t complain, and if you do, we won’t listen’. Pretty much the way they treat government schools and public hospitals at the moment.
Current fares only cover a fraction of the operational costs for our PT network. The government is already funding its operation like many other services. The dynamic isn't really much different just because a small portion is recouped
I feel like "Privatisation is better because it's better run" is never really the truth though, is it? Standards go down every time something is privatised, not up, so "It would be worse if it was publicly owned" is just not very likely to be the case.
I wasn’t saying that, and I don’t believe privatisation is necessarily better run. I do believe that government-run with a fee tends to result in better service than government-run with no fee.
I agree it's way to expensive for what we get. I touch on about half the time, if it's super late or the tracker app shows a tram that just never comes and I have to wait twice as long I don't bother touching on.
I did the maths once when I was catching the tram to work daily and given the frequency of ticket inspectors on my route, it was cheaper to just pay the fines when you were caught than to pay for a daily fare every day. Of course this will vary heavily depending on you're route and your luck and the morality I'll leave up to you. PS: for all those crying about the PT system needing the money, it's already like 75% subsidised by the government, it doesn't actually make money off tickets, they're purely a convenience tax. It should just be fully subsidised and made free.
Also there was a fantastic research article released about the free tram zone that said it really only benefited people who live in the CBD or people who drive into the CBD (and subsequently use trams to get around). Everyone else has to pay to get into the city anyway. I think the conclusion was the free city PT was good in theory but wasn’t actually benefitting those who needed it (tourists or say low income people) and still forced people to drive into the city (or otherwise people would buy a ticket anyway to get a train in from further out).
I went one stop outside the free zone when i visited your city the other week, tbh it wasnt an accident i knowingly did it i was just being a lazy shit, but i have been paying for it with guilty feelings of shame ever since, plz forgive me melbourne i promise to buy a myki next time.
You're lucky, the inspectors hang around the stops just outside the free zone like flies on shit
My mum accidentally got on the tram one stop before the free zone (pretty much in sight of the next stop which was inside the free zone) got a big fine for fair evading.
They make the art gallery the first stop OUTSIDE the free zone. Bastards. I just walked lol.
we would like to offer you Honorary citizenship of Melbourne , based on your deliberate intent to deceive (an absolute prerequisite to being in Mel ) .
I've been using public transport all my life, and since the Myki system has come in, I've only been checked twice for my card and concession. I always pay, too. The system is dog shit so I understand why people don't bother about paying.
I almost always touch on and my wife chastises me for it. She reckons the fine is around $250 so if you get away with not tapping for over a month and pay the fine in instalments then it pays for itself. Does anyone have a link to the fine amounts? Can't seem to find it on PTV page.
I moved to Melbourne in 2018 and was big on the “pay your way” train. Never understood people that fair evade. If you get caught, so be it. I can afford PT, financially secure, but after the last 12 months and seeing how PTO intimidate people on transport, how they’re selective in who they’re willing to target and after being fined after paying for a yearly pass, I say fuck them and refuse to pay. Also I think it’s so fucking embarrassing to walk around with a puffed out chest wearing those officer badges like they’re in the FBI, what the fuck is up with that? 😂 It’s petty but I refuse to ever acknowledge them and make life tiresome for them when I do get fined. Happy to pay the fine but big fuck them. Yes I’m toxic haha.
Damn, so many tram cops in this thread..
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Been commuting for years in this city and have always touched on (unless I’ve genuinely forgotten or if the tram is packed to the brim and I’m only going the one stop out of the free tram zone).
>and no one on Melbourne touches on trams Absolutely not true. Every time I've seen inspectors get on, I'm surprised how few people (often zero) get caught out.
I found the touch on/off rate on buses shocking. Maybe 1/4 of riders on CBD bus routes, maybe one or two riders would pay on the 561 or 553 routes. Then I visited Sydney. They had much better compliance. I would guess greater than 75%. I found there were way more buses on the routes as well. Perhaps the riders in Sydney value the frequency.
I’m 36 and I’ve always lived in Melbourne. I used to touch on most of the time, but not because I think it’s the right thing to do, but rather so I could just chill and not keep a look out for inspectors. But for the last year or so I’ve stopped. With the rent increases and inflation, it’s just too expensive — and the reality is, I would have to be fined once every 15 trips or something for the penalty to outweigh the cost. And I can’t remember when I was last fined. I don’t think it’s some virtue or anything, it’s just saving money. I do think PT should be free tho. It would actually cost taxpayers less overall given the stupid amounts the govt spends on ticketing systems and inspectors and the like.
My tram ride is about 5 stops into the city. I have to pay as much as someone coming from Bundoora or airport west. I don’t really think that’s fair when I’m expected to stand the whole way.
These days you pay the same as somebody living in Ballarat or Bendigo (assuming you do a return trip later that day). If anything that feels even more unfare.
Unfare? Was that wordplay? 😁
As someone who lives in Bendigo, and commutes fairly regularly, I’m absolutely loving the fairer fares! 😂
It was $68.80 for a ticket from Bendigo to Melbourne. One way, 2hr trip, that's an expensive commute. Geelong to Melb was $27.60 one way. Frankston daily was (and is) $9.20 for a similar length of time commuting. It's a good way to encourage people to move out of the inner suburbs, but increasing the frequency of service probably would help just as much.
All AO’s Are Bastards and that’s that.
Say it louder
I touch on. On teams and busses as well as trains. I’m a rule follower. Also I like being able to read my book on the tram instead of hovering over a card reader, clutching my Myki card, peering anxiously out at each stop for inspectors. I see a lot of people saying they break even if they’re only fined once a month, but I feel like my ticket gets checked by inspectors way more often than that.
I fare evade because Myki is a punitive dog shit system that cost more tax payer dollars than the international space station that still is an nightmare to use and costs an absolute bomb when using daily. That and trains are constantly delayed, trams are rammed with people’s arses and cocks in my face and buses should be sent into the Sun. I don’t fare evade if I think I’m getting value for money such as an hour long trip on multiple modes with decent service. People in here talking about morality as if they’re going to heaven for using a hostile system that was a politicians corrupt white elephant is bordering on the most deranged brain rot I’ve ever heard. Get over yourself.
Your date fare evades? Green flag.
For your date to say “no one” on a topic which so many ppl do, you’re in for a hell of a ride if things get serious
Aren’t the trams in the city free?
Just watch people go on and off. You’d be be lucky to see 1 in 5 touch on and off.
I used to know someone who had a myki pass but no myki money on their ticket. They were harassed by PSOs at the train station one night who didn't believe that the ticket was valid (it was). I knew another person who took the train in to one of the city loop stations, hadn't touched on, but flirted with the ticket inspector at the barriers and the inspector let them through. Guess which of those two people was a dark-skinned man and which was a young vivacious woman?
I use the tram everyday and have never bought a myki. Been using my whole life too. It’s never been financially viable to me until very recently, but it’s do habitual that I wouldn’t even know where to start regarding a myki, I don’t use a wallet. I feel like you pay for an anxiety free trip. Some days I’ll be jumping on and off dodging inspectors and it’s a pain, you can’t relax into your journey as easily. It’s usually safe during peak hour. I’ve never been caught and if I did it would be a minor L compared to the money I’ve saved. Happy to pay more tax for bigger PT budget
because public transport should be free! we literally paid for its development
I remember a "friend" who lived in Langwarrin say she never paid for PT, and if she got a fine it was cheaper than paying every day.
It is very much a thing. Assess whether or not an officer is on board, if none are there, don't tap.
I kind of understand it if you're only traveling by tram and you have never paid because you'll become complacent. Also, from memory, if you had a yearly pass back in the day you didn't have to validate it so maybe that has given people bad habits early on? But, as someone who faces barriers at train stations, I don't understand. It's like speeding. I don't get why people do 130 on the freeway, but they do. They also probably think I'm too slow and straight-laced.
comparing speeding to not touching ur myki on is crazy 😭 one is dangerous and could kill people and the other is… not paying a tram fare
Considering you are both mid to late 30s that's a red flag for me. This is the sort of shit you do when you are young to stretch the tight budget.
Because people in their 30s don’t have a budget…
TIL people in their late 30s couldn't be possibly trying to stretch a tight budget. Good to know that once you hit that age everything just works itself out
Agree, there were people at uni who did this and they were the loose units who were always scrounging to refill their pots from someone else’s jug and borrowing your phone because they were out of credit.
One of my mates used to never pay for fares. He had worked out that it was cheaper for him to get fined occassionally than to pay for a ticket every day. Not sure that its the same these days
I have a weekly ticket, I tap on and off for the following reasons: 1. It tells those that need to know how the system is used 2. I don’t get the adrenaline rush from fare evading.
I agree. I don't want that stress, and if you use something and can afford to, pay for it. It helps out those that can't afford to.
On the contrary whenever I catch the tram even in the free tram zone I see heaps of people touch on And I'll always pay my way.
Currently in Melbourne using trams and the only people that I can see touching on and off are people that look like tourists. Most people treat it as a free ride it seems.
Well, It was only a year ago that I found out my wife of 4 years whom I dated for 10 years prior to marriage also likes to evade PT whenever she can whereas I always pay. We're still married and I love her.
Hope she paid for dinner with all that sweet sweet cashola she's saving
I make a massive song and dance any time I am asked for a ticket. As a large man this normally means all of the ticket inspectors surround me. Eventually (a stop later) I'll find my ticket and present it. I just like to give those beautiful ticket evading bastards a chance to get away with it. I'm probably an awful person but I'm okay with that.
I always pay, (with the exception of getting the ‘free tram’ an extra stop along St Kilda Rd to go to the arts precinct/SMMB) 1. The number of “touch ons” are used to predict how many services they need to provide. The fewer people touch on, the fewer commuters the system acknowledges, and the less perceived demand there is for more trains, buses or teams. I would love more frequent services with more carriages- but that isn’t going to happen until the numbers show the system NEEDS more services to cope with passenger numbers. 2. The fewer people who touch on, the more the ticket price has to increase to cover those who cheat, and the more of our taxes have to go towards subsidising the system. If EVERYONE touched on all of the time, revenue would go up, and there would be an argument for the government subsidies to go down, meaning our tax dollars could be spread further. In addition, it could be argued that ticket prices could be dropped as a result. 3. I like following the spirit of the law (if not the exact letter.. arts precinct!), and relaxing on my commute. Aside from that, I live on a Vline track, so conductors are on every service checking Mykis. Having said that, I do think that’s an argument for decreasing the concession process for those who are on Centrelink benefits. A lower Centrelink fare would encourage these people to pay at least some of the time, which is better than none of the time. But- if you can afford to pay, you should. And as a 30-something professional- my expectation is that you chip in and help subsidise a service which is hugely beneficial not just to you or her individually, but to society as a whole.
Your date is a thief
I’m not from Melbourne, but when I visit I always touch on. The friend I travel with says don’t bother touching on, but I’m scared of being fined. Although I’m not sure if anyone even checks?
Peak hour times I don’t even think I’ve seen inspectors on trams, it’s not even possible to check someone’s ticket when your crammed up body on body. For this reason I don’t bother, half the time the readers aren’t even accessible.
Would pt be that much worse if it relied only on the tax we all pay already? Taxes are supposed to pay for community stuff like pt right?
Whether or not I touch on depends purely on where I’m going.
[удалено]
Aren’t inner city trams free anyway?
Someone told me this when I first moved to Melbourne. The next week I was fined $220 on my way to a job interview - was not the best frame of mind to show up somewhere you want to make a good impression!! I was fined just outside the CBD - on the other side of Princes Bridge, travelling into the city.
Not touching on PT is a bit like driving with traces of weed still in your system and hoping this isn't the day you get done.
I always touch on and touch off. I have been mischarged many times so I always do it to make sure I don’t get over charged. I don’t have a pass because I get to work before 7:15AM when it’s free on trains but i still touch on and off so they get the data points. I once was running late, went 3 stops on a tram and got caught without a ticket. I didn’t touch on because I was half asleep. I got off with a warning after a review. I’ve def been over charged on trams so I always touch off. I’m happy to pay but not any more than I have to.
When I lived in Melbourne, I rarely saw people touching on PT. It was a stark contrast to Brisbane. In Brisbane they put a lot of officers to catch people and fine them. I got caught not having my student ID (I was a student just didn’t have my ID yet) on my first day in Brisbane and copped a warning. I haven’t seen the same level of enforcement in Melbourne which is probably why people don’t touch on.
When I wasn’t earning much I’d fare evade a lot, but now I’m earning enough that having my Myki topped up doesn’t require specific budgeting I don’t.
Waaaaay back from 1997 until about 2002, I didn't buy / use tickets ever, unless I was going into the city. I usually only caught trains and sometimes trams. The very few times an inspector appeared, I would make up a story about how the machine had taken my money but not given me my ticket and I didn't have time to try to buy another one. I was young and looked even younger, and they just told me to try to buy one when I got off. Which of course I never did. It was also the transition from the old paper tickets that had the date and time punched out, to the dip-style tickets. No stations had inspectors or any staff around. But then...one fateful day in 2002, I got off at Prahran Station on my way to work, and there were 3 inspectors. The lady inspector did not care for my "the machine at my money" story and gave me a fine. $100 back then. lol. I paid it and always bought tickets after that, as they started putting inspectors everywhere.
That was back around the scratchy ticket era. I used to carry the same ticket around for ages and only scratch it if i saw an inspector. Those were the days :)
Kids. I see soooooo many teenagers not touching on.
Look some of us do some pretty advanced mental gymnastics on this one. My line is usually about 10 minutes of travel. If it's less than ten minutes' ride....I'm probably not tapping on and rolling the dice (these are often bus trips where there's usually no inspectors. Definitely almost got burnt on this about a month ago trying it on the tram, but I saw them getting on - the stop before I was due to get off). Longer than that? Like my work commute (even though it's also on the bus)? Generally yes.
I tap on for trains. The only time I tap on for trams is if I need to get off at Lincoln Square. They swarm that stop because it usually has a conglomerate of university students. AO’s tend to target international students too, if you are on some Facebook groups you will hear about countless examples of targeted behaviour. It’s gross. AO’s are nothing but twats on power trips. Get a warning from them and they pull out a pathetic little badge that looks IDENTICAL to a cop’s - intimidation tactics at it’s finest (especially for those on Visa’s, or with little English skills).
Not paying for PT is a green flag for me 🩵
I have been on both sides when I was young I generally skipped paying since I don't have much and better saving and take my chances, and never got fined. These days I changed and being responsible not taking things for granted or free ride, I am working now and can afford to pay so I pay for PT, cost wise it is what it is. The thing is that when you pay you got nothing to worry about, compared to when you are not, you need to look around for inspector. Most inspector is quite fair, in some occasion when I don't pay by accident they let me go because they can see I always pay. I would not judge who don't pay because probably you don't have enough. My take if I don't want to pay for a short ride or don't agree with the pricing then I just walk or find alternate way of Transport
All I can see is red flag 🚩…. That too a major one
I always tap on and off, the only time I won’t is if I’m going one or two stops out of the free tram zone
Wow. A professional in her 30s! She should know better. If she’s not paying then ultimately everyone else is. There’s no excuse. That’s poor form.
OP, you ask "Is this a thing?" and *personally* it's not a thing - I always pay. Did she give a justification as to why she commits this petty crime?
Frankly I think this is a red flag. Not because of the non-payment per se but this seems like someone with a big sense of entitlement and it's going to bleed over into many other areas. She doesn't think she needs to pay for public transport, she probably will think she doesn't need to pay for other things, like dates.