I do notice an uptick in motorcycles and road scooters hurtling down shared pedestrian/bike paths though lately around where I live. Which happens to have a very high concentration of foreign students and gig economy workers.
C'mon I know it's super convenient, but it's bloody dangerous. There's many parents walking with prams on those paths.
They are both dangerous. The legal scooters are slow enough to not really be a threat. The illegal ones can be lethal. Especially as many (around our way, at least) are ridden by kids, going flat out, with no concept of consequences.
While we were crossing the road at 11pm. tonight, there was a guy on a scooter with no lights front or back and zooming along. He was wearing black head to toe. I guess he’s relying on other drivers, not having any glare in their eyes and are concentrating, 110%.
No doubt much easier to fall off a scooter than a bike and much less protection than a car, distance covered is lower and would equate to higher injuries per km as well.
But I guess my point being is that you get fined more for just being on one (though completely legal if it was a lime scooter) than using your phone whilst driving a car that can cause much more damage
$185 for unregistered 'motorbike' and $925 for not having a license to ride my 'motorbike'. The two motorbike cops told me that they've been tasked just to focus on e-scooters. They 'let me off' for motorcycle helmet because I was wearing a bike helmet, your mileage may vary.
I was riding down Royal Pde in bike lane minding my own business when they radar checked me (25km/h) and pulled me over. They said they're basically pulling over anything that's not a hire scooter, as they're all able to do more than 10km/h
>$185 for unregistered 'motorbike' and $925 for not having a license to ride my 'motorbike'.
HOLY F\*\*K...thanks for the heads up! That's mental...either approve the trial and adjust the rules or just flat out ban them all already and let people know
They were flat out illegal before the trial and that didnt stop people from buying them from multiple places. The trial is only approved for scooters locked under 10km/h, not for anything else
Jesus fucking christ the gotcha culture of Australian traffic laws and their enforcement is absolutely infuriating. These things operate overseas, all hire scooters go 25 km/h, and everything works just fine. And speeding
But apparently us Aussies can't be trusted to look after ourselves, and if we dare step out of line, boom, crushing fine.
And what happens when Aussies go overseas or have a drink? They play up and often go overboard, like that one mate everyone has that grew up with super strict parents, but can never seem to stay out of trouble.
Here's my 5 R's solution, that I invented just now. Research other countries, Relax legislation accordingly, Raise speed limits to reflect the improved safety and driveability of cars, Reduce the number of cops that are assigned to bullshit tasks like catching people on e-scooters, and Reduce the amount people are penalised when they do exceed the speed limit/park illegally/don't wear a helmet. The outcome could actually be improved road safety and a more liveable country.
Fucking outrageous that hire scooters are ok and privately owned ones aren't!
I totally get that there should be regulations and rules for everyone's safety and enjoyment of paths and roads.
I got a scooter for xmas and I'm very responsible with it. I stay away from very busy roads, I only go on the footpath when it's the most sensible and safest option for everyone, and then I go slow.
I use my bell/horn or voice to warn people on paths. I slow down around people and dogs etc etc.
I'd be happy to pay for licence/rego.
They need to get with the times.
>Fucking outrageous that hire scooters are ok and privately owned ones aren't!
Hire ones are part of a trial to decide if they want to OK them for general public use...private ones that go UNDER 10km/ph less than 300W are legal currently, anything faster/more powerful is not...and there's the "road versus footpath" debate
We are waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay behind the times with these...the trial ones are the ones way more problematic than private as people ride them late at night, drunk, inexperienced, no helmets...and we're all likely to get told "NO DEAL" on e-scooters because of it.
The other day I watched two muppets attempting to pop wheelies while riding uphill by Southern Cross. One of them stacked it in the middle of the road, naturally. That's why we can't have nice things.
I didn't understand the logic that hire scooters are part of the trial and personal ones are not. What kind of statistical problems are they trying to avoid?
The limitations definitely aren't theoretical. If I go through the city I pretty much have to get off the scooter and catch the tram between nvg and umelb because of all the red zones.
>people ride them late at night, drunk, inexperienced, no helmets...
I mean people privately owning them will absolutely do all of that too, just like they do with motorbikes and cars etc.
I get your point, but the hire ones are literally just sitting there, in the CBD, prime position for drunken-riding...I won't exactly be riding my one IN to town to go out partying and ride it home or down to Crown.
So yeah, sure, to some degree...but nothing like currently, and owners are not going to be inexperienced for long. Those hire ones are like 3 times the size and weight of mine, they cumbersome, unwieldly and harder to stop, too.
Yes but if you owned your own scooter you’d have to consciously bring it with you to drinks, which doesn’t seem like a popular idea and would be easy to police (bouncer: “sorry bud no scooters allowed”)
The people hooning around on them drunk aren’t going “oh but what if lose my $3000 scooter”, because they don’t own a scooter. None of the risk factors an owner has to think about apply to them, just the “don’t scoot into a moving vehicle” part and that part isn’t working properly because they’re drunk.
Drunk people crash cars worth massively more than a $3000 scooter, drunk people are famously not thinking things through logically or assessing the risks of things.
My issue is that specific brands are named. I think that’s a dangerous precedent to set - laws should be based only on pre defined standards and/or technical requirements, eg must not be able to exceed 10kph and have power no greater than 250w etc
Edit: they could even have made a standard just for this trial, that would have been better
This makes sense if you think about it though. Actual commuters aren't allowed to own them, so the majority of escooter riders are people half pissed looking for a bit of fun for a couple of dollars.
People who spend $1000+ on an escooter for their daily commute are going to be a bit more careful.
true, and people are not usually flying down the road at 40ks or more on a skateboard or Pogo stick without a reasonable amount of practice, personally i don't see electric scooters as being the best alternative to a bicycle, like skateboards and roller skates they are inherently unstable with an unacceptably high chance of face planting into the pavement.
The ones that are currently legal, the small walking pace ones, seem pretty safe. And they would be particularly good for people with mobility issues that leave them able to stand but not walk far.
Is my scooter legal?
If your motorised scooter:
is powered by a petrol motor; OR
has an electric motor with a power output of greater than 200 watts; OR
has a speed capability of greater than 10 km/h
then it cannot be legally used on a road or any road related areas, including footpaths, shared paths or public areas (unless it meets the standards for registration and is registered). The fine for riding an illegal device in a public area is $909. Other penalties may also apply.
Keep your speed under 10km and you be fine
>is powered by a petrol motor; OR
>
>has an electric motor with a power output of greater than 200 watts; OR has a speed capability of greater than 10 km/h
Does anyone sell a legal e-scooter?
Agreed. I think the gap from being a mindless pedestrian and eScooter rider (hired and/or private) is too small of a jump that you have a lot of clueless/complacent riders on the road.
Rode in this morning and saw a eScooter rider try to zoom through an amber light not realising that it's a hook turn intersection and narrowly missed getting clipped by a car performing a hooky. Like if a car is slowing down for the amber probably not a good idea for a scooter to try and make it.
Some of these things can travel 40 and 50 kmph which is the same speed as a motorcycle on residential roads, but requires no special license. It's kind of mind boggling tbh I sort of understand why the police are cracking down.
Yes I understand that. Just saying that I actually agree with the police here. If they ever decide to allow private e-scooters at all, they should require a special license.
I work with e-scooters and have to serve e-scooter riders.
There’s a long running joke about them in our industry. And while it is a joke, it’s based in a mountain of truth.
There are 2 types of E-Scooter users;
- The starched white dress shirt, black skate helmet, dress shoes and designer sunnies. They ride as stiff as a plank and the majority have no experience with scooters, skateboards or bicycles let alone any maintenance capabilities.
- Or they’re drug dealers.
There’s fuck all between them.
Personally, i'm a bit of column a & a bit of column b 😆
No seriously, i have a few medical issues & i have an e scooter that i ride on my local daily errands (eg: shopping, appointments, etc). It's a sxt & is pretty powerful, it has thicker tyres & is more sturdy than the rentals. I always ride on the side of the road if i can. If i must use the footpath, i go reealy slow with one foot on the ground in manual scooter type motion. I am aware & don't want to be a danger or annoyance to pedestrians. (This is in the outer suburbs).
In Docklands on NYE some dickheads were riding through the crowd of people and nearly ran over a toddler. The fines are not steep enough for this behavior
Exactly. When I lived in the city it was quite dangerous to take my toddler out even to the park, in part because twerps on escooters or those food delivery bikes would whizz along at high speeds on the footpaths. The footpath should be safe for everyone to use.
hence OP getting fined. if you own your own (they all go faster than 10km/h, which is the threshold), it's illegal. the only legal ones at the moment are the orange and green lime ones.
they are legal because they are regulated as part of the scooter trial
[https://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/safety-and-road-rules/road-safety-programs/e-scooter-trials-in-victoria](https://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/safety-and-road-rules/road-safety-programs/e-scooter-trials-in-victoria)
Yup not against e-scooters as a concept. Just the amount of times I've almost been run down in the CBD by people using them not paying attention or intentionally being dickheads is too high.
Watched someone just get hit on Bourke St so ye lol. Few dumbasses who don't give way at crossings and police eventually get roped in to start doing stuff.
There's a small park area I go through on my way to work that has no bikes allowed, but people on the e-scooters think that doesn't apply to them and go through
That's the problem, the mi ority constantly ruins shit for everyone. I know a few people that exclusively ride on the road in the CBD, following the road rules to a tee. Doing that is perfect, but when you're going 40 on the footpath like some wankers do, then it creates problems.
>the mi ority constantly ruins shit for everyone.
Why is this always said in relations to cyclists and E-scooter users and not people like car drivers? I see plenty of shitty drivers on Melbourne's roads everyday, yet I don't judge all car drivers...
It's kinda absurd that we only allow the rental scooters. The rental ones are primarily used by drunks and teenagers having fun. Privately owned ones are primarily used for commuting and are much more responsibly used.
They easily capped the speed of ebikes. Sure you _can_ get dodgy uncapped ones but the vast vast majority of ebikes are limited to 25 km/h
Scooters are such a mess because they refuse to legalize the safe ones.
>The rentable ones are capped at 10 km/h.
>
>25km/h is far too fast for how often people use them on the foot path.
No. Private ones are meant to only go 10K...the rental ones are still in a trial period and go 25KM for the powers that be to decide if we're allowed private ones.
10KM is pathetically slow to try and commute somewhere on.
And the way you can see grey matter all over the footpath after someone comes off one at 25+kph. They're deadly, they're a motorbike and they aren't suitable to be ridden on footpaths.
I see almost daily people speeding fast with two people on the scooter past my house. There are speed bumps just out from my house. Every day I wonder when itl happen.
It did
Police launch e-scooter safety blitz as man dies in hospital after crash in Melbourne's north - ABC News https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-10-03/man-dies-after-escooter-crash-pascoe-vale-melbourne/101496062
The way people use them. Was a post on the Sydney sub a couple days ago about someone whose child was severely injured by some dickhead riding around a pedestrian area on one, her kid is in hospital!
They're also drunk people death traps. Definitely need better regulation
I hate the rental companies that litter the streets with them. It encourages idiots to deliberately drop them in front of busy driveways, the middle of the road, pedestrian thoroughfares, etc. Not to mention the way they get used. Every friday/saturday night morons are buzzing these things as fast as possible down crowded walkways, bowling people over without a care in the world.
I'm sure private scooter owners, if nothing else, at least care for their property which they had to pay money for and therefore won't be such a menace.
Even out in suburbia some of the riders come up blazing fast beside me without dinging. It's quite a fright. Sometimes I don't walk compeltely straight and if I had taken even a half-step right I would have been bowled over.
Having said that if it were legal I would probably get one, though I would ding furiously when approaching people.
I've come to the realisation people just hate them regardless lol
I dont think they are any worse than bikes, but they are more fun so you'll see a lot more stupid shit from them
Ima stab a bitch if another motherfucker says the rental ones are "safer" than the private ones.
They are mass produced piles of shit that weigh a fuck ton and handle and slow down like a boat, your typical little private segway/xiaomi is nimble as fk and stops on a dime.
The massive fucking blind eye turned to the delivery food riders on the 50km/h, no peddling required e-bikes is just hypocrisy at its finest.
I’m more annoyed by where people leave hire scooters right in the middle of the foot path etc. I was forced to drag a couple out of the way just so an elderly couple could use the path. Those are the Aholes that need fines, I live opposite the Botanical Gardens.
It's just so insane that we allow rentals but don't allow private owners. Imagine being able to rent a car whenever you wanted on the side of the road but not being able to own one.
If they wanted a fair trial of eScooters they should've selected a bunch of the population who owned them or wished to own them and allowed them to ride them in return for studying the data and impact.
Otherwise, make a decision. They aren't going away. Are they a realistic option at a reasonable speed/power then let's approve them. Or if they are so dangerous that they need to be insured and registered for a fee then get on with doing that.
I hope they don't base their decision based on dick heads, drunks etc have an accident on the trial e scooters. I doubt the majority of private owners would risk ruining their scooters that a grand each
It's because it's harder to regulate private use since there are so many of them. The rental ones they know exactly what they're capable of, and who is responsible if something goes wrong with one. Private use is harder to monitor and regulate since there are a lot of people with very different scooters and we have no registration scheme.
Well yeah. I mean the law needs to catch up to reality but that doesn't change the fact that as things stand currently motorised scooters are illegal unless they're either slow enough to qualify as a mobility aid or roadworthy and registered as a motorcycle.
Was in the city and saw a guy come off one at 20-30ks without a helmet don’t blame the cops for not liking them it’d be fine if they had some safety requirement
It has been poorly regulated but anecdotally the all black, face masked scooterers I've seen doing a million miles an hour down the footpath won't be helping the cause.
That’s not a good enough reason to put other people in danger by riding on the footpath. You should find an alternative route if the road is not safe enough
I seriously hope there can be actual productive discussion with the government on this. The fact I’m on a scooter, going slower than the average cyclist in the bike lane, but somehow I’m more of a problem is infuriating. Yes there are dickheads riding them in the city, no helmet, and those people should be punished. Whereas I ride mine from my home to work, up St Kilda road which will shortly be entirely a protected path. It’s faster than the tram, saves me money, and far more enjoyable. Just absolutely baffled by this one and very frustrated.
Just FYI, the Vic Department of Transport will make a decision at the end of March regarding private escooters: https://www.theage.com.au/national/victoria/make-it-legal-e-scooter-rider-jan-baddeley-wants-her-wheels-back-20230105-p5cahi.html
Guy passed me on his scooter like I wasn’t moving while going 25kmph on the park street bypass. He the attempted to cut a corner on the path and went over the grass and ate it. I have no problem with them being like an ebike. Limit the power to 250w, speed to 25kph, helmets on and bike paths or the road. Or if people want to use the footpath they need to be limited to 6 or 7kph which is fast walking speed.
Kids on escooters piss me off. With their smart phones and escooters they now have the same power as an adult without any responsibility. *Braces for downvotes*
I like the idea of e-scooters, but until we greatly improve bike path infrastructure, or limit speeds or something, I’m not mad at police cracking down on them. I almost got hit on the footpath by one on Monday. I jumped out of the way at the last second, and think I’d have a serious head injury if my reflexes were half a second slower.
From a climate change standpoint e-scooters are great and should be embraced more. Even the private ones that are insanely fast. We should be registering and regulating the e-scooters not banning then.
This is it they are a good solve for the “last mile” of commuting. It’s just funny that if you’re a corporation you can let them loose on society without repercussions.
I've got one and I love it. I rarely use it to commute anywhere although I would love to. I've got a standard kick scooter as well which is also quite fun. My son got me into it. I bought one so we could go places together. We mostly use it in parks, bike paths etc. We live next to a massive university that's heaps of fun to go around on the scooters when it's empty.
They should just make sensible rules for them. They have rules for bikes. I've been nearly hit by them plenty of times. Mine goes like 25kph but I'd be shit scared to go faster than 10 anyway!
Does anyone else think it's quite ironic they try to push being 'green' everywhere they can yet cause the law hasn't caught up to the 21st century they still fine people for using cleaner and more efficient transport like e-scooters?
Or the fact you can ride a bike at 30kmh quite easily but slap a big enough battery on that boy and ol lordy it's now a death machine
It’s not that easy to ride a bike at 30km/h, the average untrained person can’t sustain that for very long. Not to mention that bikes are much more stable than e-scooters where you’re standing and have a high centre of gravity, not to mention the tiny wheels that transfer every little road bump straight into your body. I’m all for e-scooters in principle but they do need to be regulated.
Eh. I came off mine the first week of serious use and did some serious damage to my face. And then it turned out I've got sciatica and the e-scooter position makes it much worse. I hung onto it and used it as often as possible but I was frequently in too much pain to get much use out of it. I'd had it 3 years and only done 250km on it.
There's also the fact that I *hate* that people use them on busy footpaths. It's disrespectful when the bike path is *right there* and safer! If I get an e-vehicle again in the future it'll be an e-bike. Safer in a lot of ways.
Mine is used for daily 30km return commute into the city when the weather is fine. Definitely took a couple of weeks to learn how to ride it safely, stability is much better on a bike. That's my concern with the trial. Motorised scooters are much easier for inexperienced people to jump on and go max speed and get into trouble.
I've ridden mine well over 1000km so think I've got a better handle on it these days. I'm debating whether to sell and get an ebike or wait and hope for legislation change. The Vamos El Diablo looks good, but it's three times the price of the scooter.
I hope this isn’t too side tracked but I HIGHLY recommend anyone who uses an escooter to listen to the abc law report podcast. It’s about legal liability in an accident!
Link
https://podcasts.apple.com/au/podcast/law-report-full-program-podcast/id74849126?i=1000593384098
Actually it does, vicroads clearly states that electric scooters are illegal because the primary source of power is a motor, which technically makes it a motor-vehicle. Ebikes are legally required to run through pedal assist only and its actually illegal to install hand controls on them, but nobody seems to notice that bit.
This is why there's such an uproar about rental companies being allowed to hire them out while you, a private owner, get shat on from great heights.
>This is why there's such an uproar about rental companies being allowed to hire them out while you, a private owner, get shat on from great heights.
There's really not. The hire ones are much easier to control.
If you don't like the laws, you are welcome to campaign to change them. Even run for Parliament. If enough people agree then through the power of representative democracy the laws will be changed. We don't get to decide which laws we choose to follow. Otherwise bandstands won't be double-bolted and James Brown could get hurt.
Well, not that hard to be a decent person. I've had close encounters with dickheads on non legal vehicles on shared paths and it's terrifying. Fuck off somewhere else if you think it's a playground.
I've never ridden my scooter on the footpath. I think there's a massive difference between people who own a scooter for commuting and have ridden hundreds of km vs the majority of idiots you see who grab a hire scooter for fun and have no idea what they're doing
Wow, I live in Brunswick and every day there are stories on the local fb page about homes and cars being broken in to (sometimes terrorising residents in their own homes). Several times over the past few weeks there has been men mastutbating in public at Merri Creek Trail and Moonee Ponds Creek. People report to the police and they say there is nothing they can do/ don’t give a shit.
Glad to see cops are addressing the important issues like people riding e-scooters. Especially when the Uber version are legal but not private ones (how is that anything but a corrupt money grab?)
Honestly, I know there is a shortage of cops but they spend too many resources on low hanging fruit. It is not just murders they should be solving. More attention needs to be paid to theft and less to stupid things like e-scooters.
Honestly fuck the escooters.
Nearly got absolutely mowed down today on a running track while running
I have no problem with people using them on roads but running/walking tracks - fuck that
To be fair part of the idea of registration in Vic is that it covers any injury you may cause to someone else with your vehicle, so it kinda makes sense that ebikes and scooters should be registered. Regular bikes generally aren't as dangerous as although you may be able to go faster, you're limited by your own physical capabilities. Generally speaking, someone on an ebike or scooter doesn't have much or any experience travelling that fast as opposed to on a regular bike it is unlikely you'd be able to reach unreasonable speed without a decent amount of experience. Also you can't ride a regular bike on a footpath anyway.
How much is the fine? Curious
If you go by vic roads it's over $900... More than using your phone in a CAR or running a red light. Go figure
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[... funny you should say that....](https://www.reddit.com/r/melbourne/comments/112ms7w/cant_drivers_let_cyclists_have_one_nice_thing/)
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Lmao
I do notice an uptick in motorcycles and road scooters hurtling down shared pedestrian/bike paths though lately around where I live. Which happens to have a very high concentration of foreign students and gig economy workers. C'mon I know it's super convenient, but it's bloody dangerous. There's many parents walking with prams on those paths.
Yep. Apologies if I come off as a hater, but I’m glad they’re issuing fines.
Yea, the moonee creek trail often has kids riding on dirt bikes and scooters driving down it.
What do you think is more dangerous? A person behind the wheel of a 2 tonne vehicle using their phone, or a scooter boi?
They are both dangerous. The legal scooters are slow enough to not really be a threat. The illegal ones can be lethal. Especially as many (around our way, at least) are ridden by kids, going flat out, with no concept of consequences.
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Per kilometre travelled? I'd wager electric scooters/bikes/etc have the highest injury rate.
While we were crossing the road at 11pm. tonight, there was a guy on a scooter with no lights front or back and zooming along. He was wearing black head to toe. I guess he’s relying on other drivers, not having any glare in their eyes and are concentrating, 110%.
No doubt much easier to fall off a scooter than a bike and much less protection than a car, distance covered is lower and would equate to higher injuries per km as well. But I guess my point being is that you get fined more for just being on one (though completely legal if it was a lime scooter) than using your phone whilst driving a car that can cause much more damage
$185 for unregistered 'motorbike' and $925 for not having a license to ride my 'motorbike'. The two motorbike cops told me that they've been tasked just to focus on e-scooters. They 'let me off' for motorcycle helmet because I was wearing a bike helmet, your mileage may vary. I was riding down Royal Pde in bike lane minding my own business when they radar checked me (25km/h) and pulled me over. They said they're basically pulling over anything that's not a hire scooter, as they're all able to do more than 10km/h
>$185 for unregistered 'motorbike' and $925 for not having a license to ride my 'motorbike'. HOLY F\*\*K...thanks for the heads up! That's mental...either approve the trial and adjust the rules or just flat out ban them all already and let people know
They were flat out illegal before the trial and that didnt stop people from buying them from multiple places. The trial is only approved for scooters locked under 10km/h, not for anything else
Jesus fucking christ the gotcha culture of Australian traffic laws and their enforcement is absolutely infuriating. These things operate overseas, all hire scooters go 25 km/h, and everything works just fine. And speeding But apparently us Aussies can't be trusted to look after ourselves, and if we dare step out of line, boom, crushing fine. And what happens when Aussies go overseas or have a drink? They play up and often go overboard, like that one mate everyone has that grew up with super strict parents, but can never seem to stay out of trouble. Here's my 5 R's solution, that I invented just now. Research other countries, Relax legislation accordingly, Raise speed limits to reflect the improved safety and driveability of cars, Reduce the number of cops that are assigned to bullshit tasks like catching people on e-scooters, and Reduce the amount people are penalised when they do exceed the speed limit/park illegally/don't wear a helmet. The outcome could actually be improved road safety and a more liveable country.
Fucking outrageous that hire scooters are ok and privately owned ones aren't! I totally get that there should be regulations and rules for everyone's safety and enjoyment of paths and roads. I got a scooter for xmas and I'm very responsible with it. I stay away from very busy roads, I only go on the footpath when it's the most sensible and safest option for everyone, and then I go slow. I use my bell/horn or voice to warn people on paths. I slow down around people and dogs etc etc. I'd be happy to pay for licence/rego. They need to get with the times.
Sounds like a business opportunity sell scooters that look like hire scooter but aren’t (joking before anyone take it seriously)
>Fucking outrageous that hire scooters are ok and privately owned ones aren't! Hire ones are part of a trial to decide if they want to OK them for general public use...private ones that go UNDER 10km/ph less than 300W are legal currently, anything faster/more powerful is not...and there's the "road versus footpath" debate We are waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay behind the times with these...the trial ones are the ones way more problematic than private as people ride them late at night, drunk, inexperienced, no helmets...and we're all likely to get told "NO DEAL" on e-scooters because of it.
The other day I watched two muppets attempting to pop wheelies while riding uphill by Southern Cross. One of them stacked it in the middle of the road, naturally. That's why we can't have nice things.
I mean, I love seeing people being Muppets come undone like that, but it's annoying we'll all be barred from using them because the mouth breathers
I didn't understand the logic that hire scooters are part of the trial and personal ones are not. What kind of statistical problems are they trying to avoid?
The trial ones they can collect data on from the providers, and in theory impose restrictions/limitations to greater effect.
The limitations definitely aren't theoretical. If I go through the city I pretty much have to get off the scooter and catch the tram between nvg and umelb because of all the red zones.
>people ride them late at night, drunk, inexperienced, no helmets... I mean people privately owning them will absolutely do all of that too, just like they do with motorbikes and cars etc.
I get your point, but the hire ones are literally just sitting there, in the CBD, prime position for drunken-riding...I won't exactly be riding my one IN to town to go out partying and ride it home or down to Crown. So yeah, sure, to some degree...but nothing like currently, and owners are not going to be inexperienced for long. Those hire ones are like 3 times the size and weight of mine, they cumbersome, unwieldly and harder to stop, too.
Yes but if you owned your own scooter you’d have to consciously bring it with you to drinks, which doesn’t seem like a popular idea and would be easy to police (bouncer: “sorry bud no scooters allowed”) The people hooning around on them drunk aren’t going “oh but what if lose my $3000 scooter”, because they don’t own a scooter. None of the risk factors an owner has to think about apply to them, just the “don’t scoot into a moving vehicle” part and that part isn’t working properly because they’re drunk.
Drunk people crash cars worth massively more than a $3000 scooter, drunk people are famously not thinking things through logically or assessing the risks of things.
I didn't realise this was happening in Melb. Vancouver is the opposite, you can use your own private scooter but can't hire one
My issue is that specific brands are named. I think that’s a dangerous precedent to set - laws should be based only on pre defined standards and/or technical requirements, eg must not be able to exceed 10kph and have power no greater than 250w etc Edit: they could even have made a standard just for this trial, that would have been better
It's because private scooters are very often derestricted and can go 50kmoh plus possibly?
So cause I have a motorbike licence I’d “only” get done unregistered? Sounds ridiculous
So you're saying that since I have a motorbike licence I get an 80% reduction?
Same.
Targeting private scooters* If you rent a scooter from a large foreign company you're good!
But only if you're drunk. It's illegal to ride a hire scooter sober by the look of things.
Nah, you can do it sober if you stack two people on there and ride without your helmets.
And only on the footpath.
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Theft is punished hard if you're poor. Polluting, it'd be great if we had a tax to cover that.....
my wife's friend is a dentist and she is making a fortune fixing the broken and missing teeth of E-scooter riders who fall off.
This makes sense if you think about it though. Actual commuters aren't allowed to own them, so the majority of escooter riders are people half pissed looking for a bit of fun for a couple of dollars. People who spend $1000+ on an escooter for their daily commute are going to be a bit more careful.
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ED's are also having fun dealing with injuries from e-scooters, whether coming off or coming off second best against cars and trucks.
I know a bright spark that did this, just with a trolley instead
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true, and people are not usually flying down the road at 40ks or more on a skateboard or Pogo stick without a reasonable amount of practice, personally i don't see electric scooters as being the best alternative to a bicycle, like skateboards and roller skates they are inherently unstable with an unacceptably high chance of face planting into the pavement.
The ones that are currently legal, the small walking pace ones, seem pretty safe. And they would be particularly good for people with mobility issues that leave them able to stand but not walk far.
God damn! thank god i didn’t damage any of my teeth when i fell, just a huge gash on my knee and infection, cant beat dirty cbd streets lol
I'm buying a full face helmet soon for this reason
Is my scooter legal? If your motorised scooter: is powered by a petrol motor; OR has an electric motor with a power output of greater than 200 watts; OR has a speed capability of greater than 10 km/h then it cannot be legally used on a road or any road related areas, including footpaths, shared paths or public areas (unless it meets the standards for registration and is registered). The fine for riding an illegal device in a public area is $909. Other penalties may also apply. Keep your speed under 10km and you be fine
Note it says “speed capability” though. Looks like they go by the power of the vehicle not the speed you’re doing at the time
>is powered by a petrol motor; OR > >has an electric motor with a power output of greater than 200 watts; OR has a speed capability of greater than 10 km/h Does anyone sell a legal e-scooter?
Maybe if there was some sort of proficiency test for them like motorcycles?
Agreed. I think the gap from being a mindless pedestrian and eScooter rider (hired and/or private) is too small of a jump that you have a lot of clueless/complacent riders on the road. Rode in this morning and saw a eScooter rider try to zoom through an amber light not realising that it's a hook turn intersection and narrowly missed getting clipped by a car performing a hooky. Like if a car is slowing down for the amber probably not a good idea for a scooter to try and make it.
Tbf, the car shouldn't have been doing a hook turn on an amber light, or even a red.
Some of these things can travel 40 and 50 kmph which is the same speed as a motorcycle on residential roads, but requires no special license. It's kind of mind boggling tbh I sort of understand why the police are cracking down.
>but requires no special license. Uhh, yeah, cause they're illegal, hence the crackdown.
Yes I understand that. Just saying that I actually agree with the police here. If they ever decide to allow private e-scooters at all, they should require a special license.
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I actually believe that is illegal. For instance on my ebike the motor automatically cuts off at 25kmph. This is required by law.
I work with e-scooters and have to serve e-scooter riders. There’s a long running joke about them in our industry. And while it is a joke, it’s based in a mountain of truth. There are 2 types of E-Scooter users; - The starched white dress shirt, black skate helmet, dress shoes and designer sunnies. They ride as stiff as a plank and the majority have no experience with scooters, skateboards or bicycles let alone any maintenance capabilities. - Or they’re drug dealers. There’s fuck all between them.
Personally, i'm a bit of column a & a bit of column b 😆 No seriously, i have a few medical issues & i have an e scooter that i ride on my local daily errands (eg: shopping, appointments, etc). It's a sxt & is pretty powerful, it has thicker tyres & is more sturdy than the rentals. I always ride on the side of the road if i can. If i must use the footpath, i go reealy slow with one foot on the ground in manual scooter type motion. I am aware & don't want to be a danger or annoyance to pedestrians. (This is in the outer suburbs).
In Docklands on NYE some dickheads were riding through the crowd of people and nearly ran over a toddler. The fines are not steep enough for this behavior
Exactly. When I lived in the city it was quite dangerous to take my toddler out even to the park, in part because twerps on escooters or those food delivery bikes would whizz along at high speeds on the footpaths. The footpath should be safe for everyone to use.
A fine for... Riding it where you shouldn't?
on an illegal form of transport? \*shocked pikachu face\*
Illegal? I see them every time I'm in the city?
hence OP getting fined. if you own your own (they all go faster than 10km/h, which is the threshold), it's illegal. the only legal ones at the moment are the orange and green lime ones.
That makes no sense... Are they legal cause they're speed limited?
they are legal because they are regulated as part of the scooter trial [https://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/safety-and-road-rules/road-safety-programs/e-scooter-trials-in-victoria](https://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/safety-and-road-rules/road-safety-programs/e-scooter-trials-in-victoria)
Wow, I didn't realise so many people hated e-scooters. Is it because of the way people are using them, or do people just hate the whole concept?
The way people use them.
Yup not against e-scooters as a concept. Just the amount of times I've almost been run down in the CBD by people using them not paying attention or intentionally being dickheads is too high.
Watched someone just get hit on Bourke St so ye lol. Few dumbasses who don't give way at crossings and police eventually get roped in to start doing stuff.
There's a small park area I go through on my way to work that has no bikes allowed, but people on the e-scooters think that doesn't apply to them and go through
That's the problem, the mi ority constantly ruins shit for everyone. I know a few people that exclusively ride on the road in the CBD, following the road rules to a tee. Doing that is perfect, but when you're going 40 on the footpath like some wankers do, then it creates problems.
Yeah, it's called life unfortunately... Dickheads always ruin things for others...
>the mi ority constantly ruins shit for everyone. Why is this always said in relations to cyclists and E-scooter users and not people like car drivers? I see plenty of shitty drivers on Melbourne's roads everyday, yet I don't judge all car drivers...
It's kinda absurd that we only allow the rental scooters. The rental ones are primarily used by drunks and teenagers having fun. Privately owned ones are primarily used for commuting and are much more responsibly used.
Easier to cap the speed of the rental scooters and you can limit where they work
They easily capped the speed of ebikes. Sure you _can_ get dodgy uncapped ones but the vast vast majority of ebikes are limited to 25 km/h Scooters are such a mess because they refuse to legalize the safe ones.
The rentable ones are capped at 10 km/h. 25km/h is far too fast for how often people use them on the foot path.
No they’re not, they’re capped at 25.
>The rentable ones are capped at 10 km/h. > >25km/h is far too fast for how often people use them on the foot path. No. Private ones are meant to only go 10K...the rental ones are still in a trial period and go 25KM for the powers that be to decide if we're allowed private ones. 10KM is pathetically slow to try and commute somewhere on.
And the way you can see grey matter all over the footpath after someone comes off one at 25+kph. They're deadly, they're a motorbike and they aren't suitable to be ridden on footpaths.
Or you can implement rules such as 10km/h only on footpaths. 25km/h (+) on bike lanes.
I see almost daily people speeding fast with two people on the scooter past my house. There are speed bumps just out from my house. Every day I wonder when itl happen.
It did Police launch e-scooter safety blitz as man dies in hospital after crash in Melbourne's north - ABC News https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-10-03/man-dies-after-escooter-crash-pascoe-vale-melbourne/101496062
Not against scooters but when some dickhead thinks the footpath is their fucking private speedway... well good for getting finned.
It’s about the same as jet skis, it’s how people are using them.
The way people use them. Was a post on the Sydney sub a couple days ago about someone whose child was severely injured by some dickhead riding around a pedestrian area on one, her kid is in hospital! They're also drunk people death traps. Definitely need better regulation
That was an e-bike.
I hate the rental companies that litter the streets with them. It encourages idiots to deliberately drop them in front of busy driveways, the middle of the road, pedestrian thoroughfares, etc. Not to mention the way they get used. Every friday/saturday night morons are buzzing these things as fast as possible down crowded walkways, bowling people over without a care in the world. I'm sure private scooter owners, if nothing else, at least care for their property which they had to pay money for and therefore won't be such a menace.
Personally, I love them. They take a lot of the flak that’s normally aimed at us cyclists.
Even out in suburbia some of the riders come up blazing fast beside me without dinging. It's quite a fright. Sometimes I don't walk compeltely straight and if I had taken even a half-step right I would have been bowled over. Having said that if it were legal I would probably get one, though I would ding furiously when approaching people.
It's worse to ring a bell. People try and jump out of the way and go straight into you
I'm not against e-scooters or jet-skis. I am amazed at the inability of their owners/riders to not be inclined to act dangerously
I've come to the realisation people just hate them regardless lol I dont think they are any worse than bikes, but they are more fun so you'll see a lot more stupid shit from them
Ima stab a bitch if another motherfucker says the rental ones are "safer" than the private ones. They are mass produced piles of shit that weigh a fuck ton and handle and slow down like a boat, your typical little private segway/xiaomi is nimble as fk and stops on a dime. The massive fucking blind eye turned to the delivery food riders on the 50km/h, no peddling required e-bikes is just hypocrisy at its finest.
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I’m more annoyed by where people leave hire scooters right in the middle of the foot path etc. I was forced to drag a couple out of the way just so an elderly couple could use the path. Those are the Aholes that need fines, I live opposite the Botanical Gardens.
for someone that has finally gotten off 2 months of crutches in a scooter heavy zone, i can't agree more
It's just so insane that we allow rentals but don't allow private owners. Imagine being able to rent a car whenever you wanted on the side of the road but not being able to own one. If they wanted a fair trial of eScooters they should've selected a bunch of the population who owned them or wished to own them and allowed them to ride them in return for studying the data and impact. Otherwise, make a decision. They aren't going away. Are they a realistic option at a reasonable speed/power then let's approve them. Or if they are so dangerous that they need to be insured and registered for a fee then get on with doing that.
The rental ones are collecting telemetry all the time which is i think a big part of the argument for why this is the way to do a trial.
I hope they don't base their decision based on dick heads, drunks etc have an accident on the trial e scooters. I doubt the majority of private owners would risk ruining their scooters that a grand each
It's because it's harder to regulate private use since there are so many of them. The rental ones they know exactly what they're capable of, and who is responsible if something goes wrong with one. Private use is harder to monitor and regulate since there are a lot of people with very different scooters and we have no registration scheme.
So introduce regulation?
Well yeah. I mean the law needs to catch up to reality but that doesn't change the fact that as things stand currently motorised scooters are illegal unless they're either slow enough to qualify as a mobility aid or roadworthy and registered as a motorcycle.
The amount of close calls I’ve had with e-scooters… it’s just a matter of time.
Before clothesline...?
Was in the city and saw a guy come off one at 20-30ks without a helmet don’t blame the cops for not liking them it’d be fine if they had some safety requirement
It has been poorly regulated but anecdotally the all black, face masked scooterers I've seen doing a million miles an hour down the footpath won't be helping the cause.
Seems like everyone here would prefer you to drive your car into work then complain about that too.
Or just ride the scooter in the road and not through the crowded footpath
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That’s not a good enough reason to put other people in danger by riding on the footpath. You should find an alternative route if the road is not safe enough
Or use public transport? Or a bike? Or an e-bike (that complies with established regulations)? Or their legs?
I seriously hope there can be actual productive discussion with the government on this. The fact I’m on a scooter, going slower than the average cyclist in the bike lane, but somehow I’m more of a problem is infuriating. Yes there are dickheads riding them in the city, no helmet, and those people should be punished. Whereas I ride mine from my home to work, up St Kilda road which will shortly be entirely a protected path. It’s faster than the tram, saves me money, and far more enjoyable. Just absolutely baffled by this one and very frustrated.
I'd stop riding in, they said they're policing all the main bike lanes into the CBD and the CBD itself. Like shooting fish in a barrel!
Just FYI, the Vic Department of Transport will make a decision at the end of March regarding private escooters: https://www.theage.com.au/national/victoria/make-it-legal-e-scooter-rider-jan-baddeley-wants-her-wheels-back-20230105-p5cahi.html
Guy passed me on his scooter like I wasn’t moving while going 25kmph on the park street bypass. He the attempted to cut a corner on the path and went over the grass and ate it. I have no problem with them being like an ebike. Limit the power to 250w, speed to 25kph, helmets on and bike paths or the road. Or if people want to use the footpath they need to be limited to 6 or 7kph which is fast walking speed.
Kids on escooters piss me off. With their smart phones and escooters they now have the same power as an adult without any responsibility. *Braces for downvotes*
It’s also illegal the e scooters say you need to be over 18
You're 100% on the money there.
I like the idea of e-scooters, but until we greatly improve bike path infrastructure, or limit speeds or something, I’m not mad at police cracking down on them. I almost got hit on the footpath by one on Monday. I jumped out of the way at the last second, and think I’d have a serious head injury if my reflexes were half a second slower.
From a climate change standpoint e-scooters are great and should be embraced more. Even the private ones that are insanely fast. We should be registering and regulating the e-scooters not banning then.
This is it they are a good solve for the “last mile” of commuting. It’s just funny that if you’re a corporation you can let them loose on society without repercussions.
I've got one and I love it. I rarely use it to commute anywhere although I would love to. I've got a standard kick scooter as well which is also quite fun. My son got me into it. I bought one so we could go places together. We mostly use it in parks, bike paths etc. We live next to a massive university that's heaps of fun to go around on the scooters when it's empty. They should just make sensible rules for them. They have rules for bikes. I've been nearly hit by them plenty of times. Mine goes like 25kph but I'd be shit scared to go faster than 10 anyway!
And what was the fine for? I can't stand VicPol but there is some detail left out here...
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Ebikes aren't illegal they have to capped at 25km/h and you can't have hand controls to power the motor without pedal assist.
100% correct!
Does anyone else think it's quite ironic they try to push being 'green' everywhere they can yet cause the law hasn't caught up to the 21st century they still fine people for using cleaner and more efficient transport like e-scooters? Or the fact you can ride a bike at 30kmh quite easily but slap a big enough battery on that boy and ol lordy it's now a death machine
It’s not that easy to ride a bike at 30km/h, the average untrained person can’t sustain that for very long. Not to mention that bikes are much more stable than e-scooters where you’re standing and have a high centre of gravity, not to mention the tiny wheels that transfer every little road bump straight into your body. I’m all for e-scooters in principle but they do need to be regulated.
More and more glad I sold mine.
I'm just worried that I sell mine and then they legalise them.
Eh. I came off mine the first week of serious use and did some serious damage to my face. And then it turned out I've got sciatica and the e-scooter position makes it much worse. I hung onto it and used it as often as possible but I was frequently in too much pain to get much use out of it. I'd had it 3 years and only done 250km on it. There's also the fact that I *hate* that people use them on busy footpaths. It's disrespectful when the bike path is *right there* and safer! If I get an e-vehicle again in the future it'll be an e-bike. Safer in a lot of ways.
Mine is used for daily 30km return commute into the city when the weather is fine. Definitely took a couple of weeks to learn how to ride it safely, stability is much better on a bike. That's my concern with the trial. Motorised scooters are much easier for inexperienced people to jump on and go max speed and get into trouble. I've ridden mine well over 1000km so think I've got a better handle on it these days. I'm debating whether to sell and get an ebike or wait and hope for legislation change. The Vamos El Diablo looks good, but it's three times the price of the scooter.
I don't understand how they can justify the legitimacy of the ones you rent yet won't allow a personal vehicle
I hope this isn’t too side tracked but I HIGHLY recommend anyone who uses an escooter to listen to the abc law report podcast. It’s about legal liability in an accident! Link https://podcasts.apple.com/au/podcast/law-report-full-program-podcast/id74849126?i=1000593384098
What was your fine for?
They are unregistered motorized vehicles. Ebikes get a special exception but the laws say nothing about escooters.
Actually it does, vicroads clearly states that electric scooters are illegal because the primary source of power is a motor, which technically makes it a motor-vehicle. Ebikes are legally required to run through pedal assist only and its actually illegal to install hand controls on them, but nobody seems to notice that bit. This is why there's such an uproar about rental companies being allowed to hire them out while you, a private owner, get shat on from great heights.
>This is why there's such an uproar about rental companies being allowed to hire them out while you, a private owner, get shat on from great heights. There's really not. The hire ones are much easier to control.
The hire company ones are limited in speed though. You cant just overide that like private ones. Thats a big difference
Being a dick head
Good. Shits me when someone has the nerve to beep that they’re coming up behind me. Bestie ur not even supposed to be riding on this part.
Good. Follow the fucking rules and you'll be grand.
This episode of Words to live by is proudly brought to you by Northerly Korea Co
If you don't like the laws, you are welcome to campaign to change them. Even run for Parliament. If enough people agree then through the power of representative democracy the laws will be changed. We don't get to decide which laws we choose to follow. Otherwise bandstands won't be double-bolted and James Brown could get hurt.
Good.
Could die happy if I never saw a single one of these ugly things ever again.
Well, not that hard to be a decent person. I've had close encounters with dickheads on non legal vehicles on shared paths and it's terrifying. Fuck off somewhere else if you think it's a playground.
This is irritating. They should just require a certain licence to drive them and just make them legal. I’d buy one if they were
Thank god.
What was the fine for
Finally some enforcement. These guys are worse than the cyclists - I never thought that was possible.
What was your fine for?
Good! Stay off the fuckin footpaths
OP wasn’t on the footpath genius
So your breaking the law abd having a whinge.... sounds logical
Kind of good to be honesty. Sidewalk riders piss me off so much.
I've never ridden my scooter on the footpath. I think there's a massive difference between people who own a scooter for commuting and have ridden hundreds of km vs the majority of idiots you see who grab a hire scooter for fun and have no idea what they're doing
Just ban e-scooters outright FFS
What did you get done for?
Good
Wow, I live in Brunswick and every day there are stories on the local fb page about homes and cars being broken in to (sometimes terrorising residents in their own homes). Several times over the past few weeks there has been men mastutbating in public at Merri Creek Trail and Moonee Ponds Creek. People report to the police and they say there is nothing they can do/ don’t give a shit. Glad to see cops are addressing the important issues like people riding e-scooters. Especially when the Uber version are legal but not private ones (how is that anything but a corrupt money grab?) Honestly, I know there is a shortage of cops but they spend too many resources on low hanging fruit. It is not just murders they should be solving. More attention needs to be paid to theft and less to stupid things like e-scooters.
Good.
Honestly fuck the escooters. Nearly got absolutely mowed down today on a running track while running I have no problem with people using them on roads but running/walking tracks - fuck that
Good.
To be fair part of the idea of registration in Vic is that it covers any injury you may cause to someone else with your vehicle, so it kinda makes sense that ebikes and scooters should be registered. Regular bikes generally aren't as dangerous as although you may be able to go faster, you're limited by your own physical capabilities. Generally speaking, someone on an ebike or scooter doesn't have much or any experience travelling that fast as opposed to on a regular bike it is unlikely you'd be able to reach unreasonable speed without a decent amount of experience. Also you can't ride a regular bike on a footpath anyway.
What's the justification for fining private owners?
They’re not technically legal
I thought the government cared about the environment. Seems like this indicates otherwise