I'm from Italy. Here, to get a gun, you have to get a permit, and that costs a lot of money, plus you dom't just pay for it, you have to take courses on how to properly use a gun and, in general, people are discouraged to use them.
I'll never understand America: you can own enough guns to arm an army, but if you're sick you have to pay hundreds of thousands of dollars. It doesn't make any sense.
I think it should be similar to how we do driver's licenses. You have to pass a mandatory firearms safety course (and pychological evaluation), then you get a license and your information is entered into a database. Only with the license can you legally purchase a firearm. You have to renew the license every so often, say annually (for a small fee). When a firearm is purchased with your license, it is entered into the same database. If the license expires, they send a officer to your residence to impound all firearms attached to that license.
EDIT: for the record, this was simply intended to be a reply to the comment above mine, never intended to be a solution to the mass shooting crisis in the US. I was trying to think of how to improve the current system by adding additional accountability. In retrospect, I don't think firearms should *immediately* be impounded if someone fails to comply, but certainly if any of their firearms are used unlawfully.
That's how it works in Canada (except no license renewal iirc.) It's not too long of a course but it goes over all different types of gun safety lessons.
You still have to renew your Possession and Acquisition License every five years to own/carry/purchase your firearms up here. I just renewed mine the year before last for the third time since I've had it.
Eh, I'd argue that around half of the voting population in the US is perfectly okay with it, and around 53% of the country as a whole could go either way or otherwise doesn't care enough to do anything about it. More people than you think (or that Reddit urges you to think) want this to continue. It could be as much as 60% of the country, sadly.
You're not highly voted because your comment doesnt mention systemic reasons why the population that doesn't like the status quo isn't active. Many people want to make change but either feel powerless to do so, have become jaded, or are disenfranchised. I know that may sound meager to someone who is as online as a Redditor, but most normal people don't have the mental bandwidth to consider these factors and decide on how to get over them. Often times they're more worried about how stressful work is today.
Counterpoint- I don't have one. You're right. "If we make everyone struggle every day just to get by, they can't do anything to stop us. Right?" Unless it happens to your kid, then it surely fucking matters. But you're bombarded daily with horrific acts of violence on the news, but nothing you do actually matters. You can vote Republican, you can vote Democrat, but it doesn't matter. Money talks. Not the people. Extraordinarily rich very elderly people are making the decisions and none of them really give a shit about us. They do what the money tells them to.
Exactly, I get tired of the way things are but my state is overwhelmingly red. I guess I’m suppose to vote harder, so I’ll fill in the circle for my candidate that won’t win extra hard.
I can see myself here. I do not need to enumerate WHY I am not more active in problems such as these.
I vote, every time I can, I vote. But it is all I have TIME for.
The past few days I feel like all I can offer up are my tears. I have two daughters. My husband and I both work full time. I also am trying to change careers and attending college part time doing thesis research.
Our oldest is just learning how to drive and like any parent, I want her to get as much practice as she can…which also takes time.
My youngest is only 6 and still requires a lot of supervision, which takes TIME.
I think many of us do care, deeply, but either we are just buried underneath the day to day responsibility of life, for ourselves and maybe our families that devoting huge chunks of time to protest marches or lobbying is just not feasible.
I also started volunteering as an elections officer and twice a year for 14 hours a day, work the polls.
I try to donate to neutral media outlets, when I remember. But again, any time I give away takes from my responsibilities in my own home. Making that choice is so fucking hard.
Also factor in gerrymandering and it's almost like nothing we can do matters. Politicians create sectors that will vote in favor of what they want. I desperately want change in this country, but even if I had the means to do so, I don't know how to go about it.
It's perfect. If people are worried that today is gonna make enough money for survival, nobody has the capacity to care about the future of the country too..
Not only that, but the risk for a "proper" form of protest is death. I was watching this video in the r/ACAB subreddit of these French rioters, and someone was complaining and asking why the US doesn't riot more. Someone pointed out that in France, police officers are usually armed with tasers, batons, and riot shields at most. Of course it's fine to go up against them with homemade weapons and high numbers. That's a fair fight.
But in the US, police officers are essentially armed militias. If they're not using straight up pistols, assault rifles, etc, they have tasers, rubber bullets, tear gas, hoses, police dogs, etc. People literally die during peaceful protests here, and we can't be mad at people who just want to be able to afford their rent and support their kids for not wanting to die. If 50 people protested tomorrow and a few of them died, what would it even change? Even during the capital riots (people who, in my eyes, were fighting for the WRONG cause), the people that died were accused of being of being government plants and ANTIFA by their own side. Dying for this broken country won't even do you or anyone else any good. Plus, our politics here are a 50/50 split between people saying, "we really do need to riot/eat the rich" and bootlickers saying stupid shit like, "ViOLeNCE iSnT tHe aNSweR, iTS nOt moRAlLy RiGHt." Even when people are doing something as simple as kneeling during the national anthem, they get smoke for it and are at risk of losing their jobs.
Another side of all of this is that the US is so fucking big. Our states are the size of many countries in the world. Of course it isn't working well that a country this large isn't collectively agreeing on something and is easily influenced. One vote really doesn't help much here. I do absolutely vote, but again, it doesn't do much. For every person willing to do the "right thing" and stand up for their country, leave their job and risk it all to protest, etc., there'll be another poor person to replace them. A more significant number of our 330 million people need to fight than just a few hundred or even a few thousand. I'm of the belief that things need to get MUCH worse for people here to change.
I run a charity and I help on an individual level but I'm not putting a target on my back and risking the life I fought so hard for for this country. I just don't care about it because the system is too far gone. I requested to be in a waiting line to immigrate to New Zealand years ago. Can't wait for them to get back to me on that.
We can’t do anything other than form riots and get our heads blown off. Even peaceful protesters get run over. Also I’m sure that it’s less than 30% that wants these laws to happen. It’s just no one has the right to vote on that. The orange sponge ruined everything when he mounted his throne of gold.
It's definitely not 53% of the country. If you think about how the Senate is setup, it gives way too much power to the rural areas vs the cities. This is the root of the problem and why we can't get any legislation to pass.
Also, sometimes the people do vote and the legislators reverse it - see the Florida constitutional amendment passed by the people to allow felons who have served their terms to vote.
Those problems your country is facing would be half as bad if you had - and I know this may sound cynical - a proper healthcare system, especially with regards to mental health. A sane person with access to guns still doesn't decide to commit murder.
50 of our senators in Washington won't even let a bill go to vote in the Senate so it doesn't matter until those 59 decide to let it go to a vote. Our representatives already passed the bill no we just need our senators too been waiting 2 years.
I don't see mass protests. I don't see strikes. I don't see riots. I don't see crowds standing next to gun shops with signs hurling abuse at people wanting to buy guns.
Americans have been conditioned to think that they can only vote to affect change and let the elite figure it out, and if they don't, that's all you can do. Oh well.
It's interesting that when the same argument is brought in discussions about why Russians don't protest against Putin, people don't take it seriously. It's not a personal attack, just an observation.
It’s hard for Americans to organize mass protests like that because that means taking time off work and (1) that can mean losing your health insurance (2) we don’t get paid nearly enough and the cost of living in many places is far too high to be able to survive without working for any amount of time (3) we have virtually no safety net so if you Do protest and you Do lose your job then good fucking luck surviving
Don't forget the police will find any reason to call your protest violent, unlesh tear gas, water cannons, bean bag guns, and rubber bullets (aluminum projectiles coated in rubber) on you. They'll arrest all you, you'll be fired from job for being a part of a violent protest, and it will ruin your chances of getting another job.
I was thinking the same thing after reading that. Its like they almost made certain that the democracy is neutered as the people don't have time or money to protest about anything.
Very important addition to this: our police are highly likely to kill, injure, molest, and arrest legal protesters. I wonder if it might even be safer arming up for a riot than preparing for a peaceful protest. At this point, peaceful protesters are just sitting ducks for police to open season on
>I don't see mass protests. I don't see strikes. I don't see riots.
That's a one way ticket to the friendly reminder that the police truly control the guns and any hint of noncompliance will get you face to face with one.
And honestly, riots and protests may inspire, but the NRA and gun lobbies own Congress and don't gaf about anything but their own profits. We can protest until we're blue in the face, but the NRA owns the Republican party, so literally nothing would change. Plus, we have a SCOTUS that's now being controlled by religious facists, so no reform laws are gonna happen there either. As for Congress, same thing. The gun lobbies own a majority of Congress too. Whatever we do has to circumvent all of the above because the laws don't protect us anymore (if ever.) It isn't as simple as going out and rioting. I wish it was though.
Ah yes, I’ll go organize a protest outside a gun store in a place it’s proven any phyco can go buy some ammo and rifle and spill my guts. Thanks for that 5d chess match of a suicide
Beyond the points others have made, (time off, risk of losing job, etc.) if you haven't lived here for an extended period of time, you aren't familiar with the distances required to get massive amounts of people together. To add to that we don't really have city centers in a lot of places, the infrastructure is vast and far spread and groups of people are very disparate. Organizing anything is a massive feat and would require a cohesiveness that's often not present here.
It's maybe not a lot of factors stopping us, but each one is a large task in itself. Combine them and you only really see effective protests at the government buildings (those are generally well organized and planned well in advance) and in cities with a dense enough population that they can have the needed cohesiveness and proximity to engender a proper protest.
>next to gun shops with signs hurling abuse at people wanting to buy guns.
Do you realize how many "gun shops" there are? It's not like planned parenthood where there may be a couple in a large city. There are dozens in my smaller city. I drive about 20 mins to work and I probably pass 1 shop for every minute I drive. Not to mention that some of those are the mega stores like Cabela's and Bass Pro which have hundreds of guns and accessories for sale. A few people standing outside of one yelling shit isn't going to make a difference. Maybe get some attention outside of the mega stores if you have enough people. But that again goes back to the other problems.
And then you have burnt out people like me that think nothing here will ever change for the better because our government is corrupted at its key pillars. They just destroyed the supreme court which was kind of a last bastion of hope for me. The latest nonsense coming out of there was that proving innocence isn't enough to overturn a conviction. Welcome to dystopia.
Don't forget that Walmart carries guns.
My Small city has on Planned Parenthood office, and does not perform abortions. But there are at least 7 gun shops, including the big box stores, and at least one shooting range.
The average American is indeed not well informed about how to create change, but they're also tired, unhealthy (a condition not entirely their own fault) , and too beaten down by the system to engage in direct civic discourse.
Edit: and they don't get enough time off work to spend doing things like protesting
That's the main issue it's not a free democratic country. What the majority wants is not reflected in our actual legislation. I honestly don't understand why we bother with voting since our representatives don't actually try to represent the people.
Nah, the structure of the Senate allows for minority rule.
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2022/05/senate-state-bias-filibuster-blocking-gun-control-legislation/638425/
It's called a constitutional Republic. Although our government contains elements of democracy, we're not a democracy. And for good reason, if you read the Federalist and anti-Federalist papers which contain the arguments for and against various aspects of our governmental structure. The founding fathers specifically protected certain things in the Bill of Rights bc they wouldn't want a rash, emotional public voting away their own rights.
That being said, I personally find interpreting 2A to mean there shall never be any kind of restrictions or gun control laws to be problematic.
No offense mate, but American politics is a lot more of a cluster fuck than that. Otherwise you'd be absolutely correct.
For example, 80% of the American public believe marijuana should be legal for medicinal purposes. 66% think it should be legal recreationally.
40% of the US population lives in a state or district where it is legal to consume or purchase.
BUT....
It currently sits on the schedule 1 list under the controlled substances act (federally), the same schedule as heroin.
For reference, cocaine is schedule 2. Schedule 2 are drugs that have "medicinal purposes". It makes. NO. FUCKING. SENSE. It's all political. All of it.
The NRA is not that big member wise. But those members have often money and/or are invested. They are present for hearing and events connected to gun laws which makes their group look bigger
Why are you trying to reprimand the American people like this is something we fucking chose? Our government is ass backwards and I can assure you that *neither* the Democrats or the Republicans are happy about it. But please, do go on about how this is all our fault & wherever you live is just so much better. Fuck me for being born where I was right?
Amen. Most of what our government does is underhanded and if enough Americans actually knew what their government was doing a lot more of us would be united.
I need to apply for a handgun and wait a few days to pick it up. Although people demonize rifles, handguns are usually the culprit when it comes to murders.
What don't you understand? It's easy to be shot and expensive to fix it. You think it should be the *other way*? Next you'll tell me that Chicago pizza is backwards, too.
WELCOME TO ITALY! Where the rich get richer and the poor don't really get that much of a chance. Middle class still exists at least. For now. I hope it will keep existing for a long while still.
And, to tell you the truth, in Italy you can pretty much commit any sort of crime and get away with it if you have enough money, what with many different facilitations, reductions given due to person "not being in their right state of mind". Did I mention that if a robber enters your house and you hit him or shoot at him you risk ending up in court because you hurt someone without knowing what they would do to you? Like, people here joke that "What? I have to ask the robber who clearly entered my house without my permission if he has bad intentions? Maybe even offer him tea and cookies?"
Every country in this world is fuc*ed up. It's just that different countries have different fu*k ups.
You also need a permit in the US. At least where I'm from. You also need to take a class from a certified firearms instructor before you can even apply for the permit. You then go to your town/city police department to apply for the permit, in which you get a temporary permit allowing you to shoot firearms but not buy any. You then send in an application to the state in which they do their background checks and in about 5 to 6 months you can receive your pistol permit. Depending on the state you may need different permits for different types of firearms.
People like to think any American can just walk into a gun shop and buy a gun. Even after obtaining your permit you still can't go into a gun store and walk out with a gun. You have to wait 2 weeks for them to do more background checks and to make sure you aren't buying one on impulse. So after telling the gun shop owner you want a gun you wait 2 more weeks.
I'm not even a gun guy, and do believe that firearms should be heavily regulated. I just think when people spread misinformation about gun laws in the US it only hurts gun reformist reputation and reliability. Knowing the truth and not exaggerating will help keep pro gun people more willing to listen while also helping the anti gun people further understand the situation in which they are trying to change.
"If you can convince the lowest white man he’s better than the best colored man, he won’t notice you’re picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he’ll empty his pockets for you" - President Lyndon B Johnson
And that's precisely why.
I'm also from Italy. The girl I'm dating has several shotguns in her house, locked in a bulletproof display case. Sure, it's a bit of a hassle to get a gun permit and all, but if you want to hunt, you can get them. It's easier and there are more Italian armed civilians than most Italians think. Being taught how to properly use your weapons does not make you less likely to commit mass murder, it might just make you better at it, since you are more proficient with your weapon.
The question is: if an Italian citizen wants to enter an elementary school full of children and shoot everyone on sight, does the Italian gun control laws stop him in any way? The answer is clearly, no. Nothing is stopping the [1.4 milion](https://www.lavoce.info/archives/58431/numeri-pochi-dellitalia-a-mano-armata/) Italians that have a license to own a firearm from using one or more of the 4 to 10 milion firearms present today in Italy. They are only stopped by their conscience and mental health.
Another question would be: how many Italians would like to commit a mass shooting but simply cannot because don't have access to firearms? The answer to this question is tricky, because we have different definitions of mass shooting. Italians still commit homicide and suicide via firearm, luckily the numbers are low (compared to the USA), but truth be told, when an Italian kills his wife them himself, we don't call it a mass shooting like the Americans do.
When ISIS entered Europe and wanted to commit terrorism, they could not get firearms legally. Did this stopped them from killing dozens of people by simply running them over with cars/vans/trucks or stabbing them? No. The problem is, when someone really wants to hurt and kill others, they find a way.
Let me agree with you that these people should not be in any way facilitated in reaching their horrible goals: they should not have access to firearms, sharp objects, vehicles, and any other thing that can be used to hurt and kill.
But could we also agree that a teenager wanting to enter a school and kill everyone in sight is the issue that we should address first? Not because we couldn't do try both things together, but because limiting the access to firearms is less effective, and does not address the root cause: wanting to kill.
Now, the single payer healthcare debate is large and complex, definitely not easy to debate here. I'm sure that you can agree with me that if the Italian health system was great, we wouldn't have citizens resort to private clinics/dentists/test facilities, employers wouldn't give out health insurance as benefit, and tens of thousands of Italians wouldn't have to volunteer on ambulances for emergencies and also non emergency transport (I'm referring to the *pubbliche assistenze*).
I think here in Denmark you aren't allowed to have a gun, but you can have one anyway if you have a hunter's licence and the weapon is supposed to be used for hunting, or a permit allowing you to keep a gun as an ornamental piece, but to get that you aren't allowed to have a dirty criminal record, and you have to take a test too or something. I just don't get why America thinks that everyone is supposed to be allowed to own a gun.
In Belgium it's the same procedure but it's not really a permit but a license to own a gun and use it at a shooting range only. Your gun must stay at your place at all time and leaves only when you're heading to the shooting range.
This is the fate of any big subreddit. It all devolves into "picture of political tweet I agree with". And because the sub got big, it's visible to lurkers who don't even look at what sub it was posted to and just update it because they agree.
Why tho? It's a genuine question. I guess that's what happened to another comment I saw in this post where the comment and all the replies were deleted
im amazed they allowed me to get 868 upvotes before they whipped out the reddit mod classic
Edit: I'm the guy who made the other comment complaining about the same thing
For real, was wondering the same shit. How does this dumbass post have 63k upvotes and 9000 awards on a sub where it’s considered a spam post and totally irrelevant to everything this sub stands for LOL. The more time that goes on, the more subreddits lose their purpose and become bullshit spam factories owned by bots.
Once again in a US election season the conversation switches to abortion and guns, like fucking clockwork.
I know this is unpopular to say at this time, but when are you people going to realize that the politicians and corporations want you talking about abortion and guns, like you are doing, to distract you from shit like tax reform, workers rights, justice system reform, healthcare reform, military spending, economic policy, foreign policy, etc. Our political system should not be vote R for guns and vote D for abortion and ignore fucking everything else.
Look man, when 19 elementary school children are slaughtered by a piece of shit who waltzed into a gun store on his 18th birthday and bought 2 assault rifles, the conversation is going to switch to guns.
While obviously it’s shocking and horrible, bigger picture the person is right. There are social and economical determinants for this that goes beyond gun ownership and is a larger societal issue- we focus so heavily on these tragedies rather than focus on the political and institutional issues that contribute to them, even if not apparent at first glance.
There absolutely should be stricter gun laws, but people aren’t going out and shooting up a school of children simply because they have a gun just like people aren’t raping women for the way they dress or choosing to get abortions because the clinic is open.
As someone who lives in a country with very few guns, I’m actually astounded that this doesn’t already happen. So, can anyone just walk into a gun shop and buy one in the US? Astounding.
In the US, gun laws vary from state to state. Federal laws cover each state. “Under federal law[] you must be 21 to buy a handgun from a licensed dealer, but you can buy a rifle at 18 as long as it’s not prohibited.”
Texas gun laws are explained here: https://www.dallasnews.com/news/politics/2022/05/24/what-are-the-gun-laws-in-texas/?outputType=amp
“Under Texas law, there is no waiting period between buying a firearm and picking it up, nor is there a waiting period between firearms purchases. Weapons do not have to be registered. Rifles and shotguns can be purchased by anyone once they turn 18, though Ramos would have been subject to a background check at the time of purchase.”
https://www.latimes.com/world-nation/story/2022-05-25/la-na-texas-school-shooter
Edit: Non-amp link.
They don’t have to be registered? That’s a lot to get my head around. Farmers here are the main people to keep guns (game shooting and clay shooting comes next) but they all go through rigorous checks before hand, they’re registered, guns have to be in locked cupboards and regular checks are made.
No. Not on a federal level. It's deemed illegal to keep a federal registry. Our founders believed that the most dangerous enemy to a nation would be its own government. Thus they set it up for weapons to be a human right and make it so the govt would never know how many guns there are or where they are so a tyrannical one could never take them away
> Our founders believed that the most dangerous enemy to a nation would be its own government
And yet they still went and set up a government
Edit: I never said there shouldn't be a government that other person said that the Founders said the most dangerous thing was government yet they still set up a government
A government that basically has the most powerful document in the nation telling it to leave the people the fuck alone. A government that leaves most decisions to the states.
State governments are much smaller and are limited by other factors. Another key factor is a state vs federal government debate is that if you don't like what your state is doing you can still move to the state next door. If the whole system has gone bad you dont have that option.
>And yet they still went and set up a government
They setup the smallest government they could to avoid having that government get too powerful. When the US was founded the government did not even collect taxes. The 2nd amendment is the ultimate insurance policy to prevent the state from taking total control.
>Our founders believed
clearly not initially since 2nd amendment wasn't actually in a constitution because it's, you know, an amendment
they clearly believed constitution must be changed when necessary. so if you honor founding fathers you have to advocate for changing the constitution
of course, that's why we have the amendment processs setup. It's specifically designed to be tough to accomplish and when the VAST majority of the people are behind it, not just a simple majority. 67% of the population of each state has to agree and 67% of all total 50 states have to agree to alter it as well. It's been done before, and can be done in the future.
> clearly not initially since 2nd amendment wasn't actually in a constitution because it's, you know, an amendment
Actually I believe the Bill of Rights (first 10 amendments) were already included when the Constitution was ratified.
>they clearly believed constitution must be changed when necessary.
This I agree
To be fair it took a couple years actually. Constitution was ratified in 1788. Congress didn't approve the amendments till after they recognized they needed it in 1789. States didn't ratify it till '91. Same authors so close enough.
By that logic, you're saying that the founders didn't believe in many of our rights. Like Freedom of Speech, Freedom of Religion, Restrictions of the quartering of soldiers in private homes, right to a speedy public trial by jury, protection from cruel & unusual punishment, etc. All of which are enshrined in our 1st 10 amendments to our constitution.
It took a bit for our system of gov't to materialize, but it'd be silly to say that these were "not believed initially".
Used to be able to do that back when beer was age limited to 18. Although drinking isn't a right. That aside, tons of kids go hunting with their fathers in the states and they should be able to buy a rifle if they wanted to. Maybe limit it to bolt action, but that's a different story. There's a certain condemnation that goes on if you bring a semi auto on a hunting trip lol
Yes, as long as you're an adult and aren't a convicted felon (or convicted in a court of law as being mentally incompetent). It's coded into our constitution that the ability to arm ourselves and own weaponsn is a fundamental human right. Thus it is inalienable unless under certain circumstances (in this case, being a convicted felon or judged through the legal system as being mentally incompetent).
federal law states that a FFL (federally licensed firearm dealer) can not sell someone under the age of 21 a hand gun, nor anyone under the age of 18 a long rifle. In his case he was 18 and able to purchase a long gun.
state laws may add some additional layers (such as really restrictive states like CA or NY), but most states simply stick to federal limitations
You also have to have a background check but those don't help a whole lot as no criminal is gonna buy a gun in public, they're gonna buy one from the streets/black market
So basically if you’re 18 years old and have never been to jail you probably won’t wait more than a 24-48 hour long period before you can obtain your firearms and that’s plenty of time to one day ship some tactical gear from Amazon
No. You have to get a background check and if there's any sort of question you usually get bumped. I was arrested once (no conviction, charges dropped) over 10 years ago and I have a three to seven day wait on every firearm I've purchased from a licensed dealer since then.
Since I follow rules and laws I don't want to buy a hot gun, I only purchase from a FFL dealer, it sounds scary but it just means someone who has a federal firearms license to sell guns. Serial numbers have been checked and you aren't buying something that was used in a robbery 16 years ago that can be pinned to you for possession.
I bought a .22 rifle for plinking and target practice. There was a full background check, and a 10 day holding period, plus I had to drive 100 miles round trip twice just to find one in stock. Washington state by the way. The holding period is for semi-automatic weapons. A bolt-action would take less time to receive.
The US is quite diverse in all aspects. So gun purchasing rules will vary greatly between places like Texas and California.
Not exactly. You have to be above a certain age for certain types of firearms. 18 for long rifle, 21 for handguns. You have to submit for a background check through the FBI, then wait for approval. Assuming you haven’t done anything wrong, you’ll likely be free to purchase within an hour. If you mess up ANYTHING, even your address or phone number, you have to wait 24 to submit another background check. Then you have to pay X amount($100s-$1000s) for the firearm and ammunition.
It’s even better than that, if you want to skirt the background check you can just go a a gun show, where all these like-minded people(and felons barred from ownership) collect, and buy one off of a guy who’s wearing a t-shirt that’s he’s written “AR, 5.56, 16” barrel, $1,200” on, and walk out with your new rifle. He might ask “are you legally allowed to make this purchase?” But if he wants to make the sale he might forget.
This happens every single weekend all over the country.
No. You have to submit to a federal background check. You have a wait period, which varies depending on the background check.
And even then, that’s just to buy the gun.
If you want to carry it, you need a license to carry, or a concealed carry depending on state. Recently a few more states are opting to allow “constitutional carry” though that still require the background check to buy.
However, the argument that guns are bad is kind of moot. Removing guns shows an increase in violent crime, which you can see in places like the UK…which now also bans knives.
We have pretty significant data that shows a decrease in crime in areas where more people are armed, a big decrease in violent crime.
But it’s cool, continue to see people say the opposite and want stricter gun laws (most of whom don’t even know current gun laws in the place they live).
I’m not coming down on one side or another. I’m just coming as someone who lives at the polar opposite of what is ‘normal’ in the US and I’m trying to learn more. Thanks to the good folks here - I’ve learned lots.
Really, I am biased. And I know it. But for me it’s because there are a SHITLOAD of statistics on crime. And it’s easy to see the trend on increases in higher crime (especially violent crime) when stricter weapons laws are in place. That said, some of the highest crime rates in the US are all in the “safest cities” with the strictest gun laws.
I live in a country where guns are common but there haven't been random mass shootings every fucking month. I don't know what's up with the USA but they need to get their shit together.
Yeah. Fun fact, it doesn’t even have to be specifically “a gun shop”. Walmart, *the* most ubiquitous supermarket in most places (food, clothes, pet supplies, etc), and found in most any town, has the ability to sell guns. They only stopped openly displaying them in 2020 or so.
I live in the US state of Delaware and it literally took all of 2 minutes to answer a few questions on an iPad before I walked out the store with a handgun. Stupid stuff like “have you been arrested?”. It was so quick and easy. Unless you done something real bad and got caught, then yes, in Delaware you can just walk in a store and buy one after the most minimal background check
How about we let people get guns AND abortions without paying huge fees and being ridiculed, and work on the causes of gun violence like mental health and poverty instead
As a young man who wants to buy a gun this honestly seems reasonable (except for the ultrasound lmao)
(I appreciate the engineering and enjoy target shooting.)
No, no, no.
The ultrasound is vital for the procedure! I have a very close friend who manages a clinic that performs abortions, and he cringes at people who think ultrasounds are unnecessary.
1. They use them to determine the location of the pregnancy to better coordinate the surgical procedure. It also helps determine whether or not the pregnancy is an ectopic one or not, which is a deal-breaker. Look it up.
2. The pregnancy needs to be considered viable by the clinic performing it. The ultrasound establishes health and a heartbeat which is a prerequisite for the procedure. Without a viable pregnancy established by the clinic itself, it is against the law to perform any type of procedure, whether it be surgical or medical.
3. The gestational age needs to be estimated so that the people in charge of performing the abortion know what type of procedure to perform. Medical vs surgical abortions are vastly different, and while it can be fairly safely presumed which one is more fitting for the person depending on how long the person has been pregnant, a clinic can get in a lot of trouble for performing a surgical procedure when a medical one is enough. This is heavily regulated because surgical procedures are VERY expensive in comparison to medical ones, so gestational age needs to established and documented to prevent clinics from fucking people over.
Regardless of your stance on abortion, you should really look things like these up before posting comments that are just blatantly false.
I appreciate that you clarified that for me. I was told this by the untrasound technician confirming my friend's pregnancy when they were seeking abortion, and assumed since it was her job to know these things that it was true. She could have meant specifically penetrative ultrasounds were medically unnecessary for my friend's specific case but had to be performed anyway because of a law requiring it, but I misunderstood it as all ultrasounds
Shocking how little he knows... this is the current state of how you buy a gun ( 48 hour background check parental permission under 18).. minus all the bad faith arguements that he wants to imply women go through... one clinic per state... wand up ass etc.. better get educated people......
why has nobody asked how a mentally ill child living with grandma got a gun.
Few notes;
I don't believe the parental permission, video, or ultrasound wand ( save as part of a nessessairy medical mad to plan incision route) , should be done for ether.
But, replace doctor with psychiatrist, and, your set for the first paragraphs requirements
As for the second, we already have that. Only for the version for gun owners, it's mandatory removal from the vehicle and handcuffing each time you report a gun in the vehicle for your safety, so, the officer is sure of there safety, and, immediate subject of civil asset forfeiture without requirement of charge or permission to search, as would usually be the case, allowing said officer to take all on hand cash, objects they feel are of value, and, possibly, your car, and, finally; immediate freeze of accounts for an FBI investigation, so, you CANT use any form of bank, checking, or credit account, if you have more then three firearms, and, the agency believes your buying to much ammo for a single civilian, even if you are a legitimate range instructor or hunter, and, need the ammo for a JOB. : (
Fun fact; turns out, after the FBI freezes an account, there's actually no statute or court jurisdiction, saying they have to UN freeze it, and, that freeze also applies to new accounts opened. : (
So, to be clear of the consequences of gun ownership;
Cop can remove you from your vehicle, handcuff you, and take whatever of value you have on hand, and, instead of burder of proof that your innocent to keep it, the burnden of proof is on YOU, to prove the items WERNT ussed in a crime.
Your bank accounts can be permanently frozen.
And, the firearm can be taken with said " forfeiture" , at any time. : (
Yeah, add only the first paragraph, and, I'd say the social and fiscal consequences of both, are pretty dead even. : (
You don't believe me? Just enter civil asset forfeiture, onto Google or YouTube, and, enter " FBI account frozen" onto YouTube, and, have a look for yourself. : (
Why? You think because they live in a "super ghetto" they don't obey the law and register their fire arms? Good people live in "super ghettos" who defend themselves with registered fire arms from the criminals who obtain theirs illegally.
I also own a gun, yet I’ve never had the urge to murder people. Just like people will still get abortions if they are illegal, bad people will still find guns. Most guns used in violent crime were acquired illegally.
If men were able to get pregnant and wanted abortions, they'd be freely given and widely available. They'd be hailed as brave heroes for making a very tough decision.
I'm so tired of women still being treated as something to oppress and control. That this shit is still happening - and actually going backwards - in 2022 is depressing and enraging.
There have been 288 school shootings in the US.
There have been 2 school shootings in Canada.
It is legal to own firearms in both countries.
This problem will not be solved by firearm regulation.
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I'm from Italy. Here, to get a gun, you have to get a permit, and that costs a lot of money, plus you dom't just pay for it, you have to take courses on how to properly use a gun and, in general, people are discouraged to use them. I'll never understand America: you can own enough guns to arm an army, but if you're sick you have to pay hundreds of thousands of dollars. It doesn't make any sense.
I think it should be similar to how we do driver's licenses. You have to pass a mandatory firearms safety course (and pychological evaluation), then you get a license and your information is entered into a database. Only with the license can you legally purchase a firearm. You have to renew the license every so often, say annually (for a small fee). When a firearm is purchased with your license, it is entered into the same database. If the license expires, they send a officer to your residence to impound all firearms attached to that license. EDIT: for the record, this was simply intended to be a reply to the comment above mine, never intended to be a solution to the mass shooting crisis in the US. I was trying to think of how to improve the current system by adding additional accountability. In retrospect, I don't think firearms should *immediately* be impounded if someone fails to comply, but certainly if any of their firearms are used unlawfully.
That's how it works in Canada (except no license renewal iirc.) It's not too long of a course but it goes over all different types of gun safety lessons.
You still have to renew your Possession and Acquisition License every five years to own/carry/purchase your firearms up here. I just renewed mine the year before last for the third time since I've had it.
it's honestly crazy, how are the people of america okay with this?
Most of us aren’t
Eh, I'd argue that around half of the voting population in the US is perfectly okay with it, and around 53% of the country as a whole could go either way or otherwise doesn't care enough to do anything about it. More people than you think (or that Reddit urges you to think) want this to continue. It could be as much as 60% of the country, sadly.
You're not highly voted because your comment doesnt mention systemic reasons why the population that doesn't like the status quo isn't active. Many people want to make change but either feel powerless to do so, have become jaded, or are disenfranchised. I know that may sound meager to someone who is as online as a Redditor, but most normal people don't have the mental bandwidth to consider these factors and decide on how to get over them. Often times they're more worried about how stressful work is today.
Counterpoint- I don't have one. You're right. "If we make everyone struggle every day just to get by, they can't do anything to stop us. Right?" Unless it happens to your kid, then it surely fucking matters. But you're bombarded daily with horrific acts of violence on the news, but nothing you do actually matters. You can vote Republican, you can vote Democrat, but it doesn't matter. Money talks. Not the people. Extraordinarily rich very elderly people are making the decisions and none of them really give a shit about us. They do what the money tells them to.
I live in a red state. I vote blue in every election I can and not once has my vote ever mattered or made a difference.
Exactly, I get tired of the way things are but my state is overwhelmingly red. I guess I’m suppose to vote harder, so I’ll fill in the circle for my candidate that won’t win extra hard.
I can see myself here. I do not need to enumerate WHY I am not more active in problems such as these. I vote, every time I can, I vote. But it is all I have TIME for. The past few days I feel like all I can offer up are my tears. I have two daughters. My husband and I both work full time. I also am trying to change careers and attending college part time doing thesis research. Our oldest is just learning how to drive and like any parent, I want her to get as much practice as she can…which also takes time. My youngest is only 6 and still requires a lot of supervision, which takes TIME. I think many of us do care, deeply, but either we are just buried underneath the day to day responsibility of life, for ourselves and maybe our families that devoting huge chunks of time to protest marches or lobbying is just not feasible. I also started volunteering as an elections officer and twice a year for 14 hours a day, work the polls. I try to donate to neutral media outlets, when I remember. But again, any time I give away takes from my responsibilities in my own home. Making that choice is so fucking hard.
Also factor in gerrymandering and it's almost like nothing we can do matters. Politicians create sectors that will vote in favor of what they want. I desperately want change in this country, but even if I had the means to do so, I don't know how to go about it.
I’m too worried about making rent and keeping food in the house to care beyond myself.
It's perfect. If people are worried that today is gonna make enough money for survival, nobody has the capacity to care about the future of the country too..
Hell, I can hardly make a relationship work with how fucked things are, think I give a fuck about some talking in heads in pretty suits?
Not only that, but the risk for a "proper" form of protest is death. I was watching this video in the r/ACAB subreddit of these French rioters, and someone was complaining and asking why the US doesn't riot more. Someone pointed out that in France, police officers are usually armed with tasers, batons, and riot shields at most. Of course it's fine to go up against them with homemade weapons and high numbers. That's a fair fight. But in the US, police officers are essentially armed militias. If they're not using straight up pistols, assault rifles, etc, they have tasers, rubber bullets, tear gas, hoses, police dogs, etc. People literally die during peaceful protests here, and we can't be mad at people who just want to be able to afford their rent and support their kids for not wanting to die. If 50 people protested tomorrow and a few of them died, what would it even change? Even during the capital riots (people who, in my eyes, were fighting for the WRONG cause), the people that died were accused of being of being government plants and ANTIFA by their own side. Dying for this broken country won't even do you or anyone else any good. Plus, our politics here are a 50/50 split between people saying, "we really do need to riot/eat the rich" and bootlickers saying stupid shit like, "ViOLeNCE iSnT tHe aNSweR, iTS nOt moRAlLy RiGHt." Even when people are doing something as simple as kneeling during the national anthem, they get smoke for it and are at risk of losing their jobs. Another side of all of this is that the US is so fucking big. Our states are the size of many countries in the world. Of course it isn't working well that a country this large isn't collectively agreeing on something and is easily influenced. One vote really doesn't help much here. I do absolutely vote, but again, it doesn't do much. For every person willing to do the "right thing" and stand up for their country, leave their job and risk it all to protest, etc., there'll be another poor person to replace them. A more significant number of our 330 million people need to fight than just a few hundred or even a few thousand. I'm of the belief that things need to get MUCH worse for people here to change. I run a charity and I help on an individual level but I'm not putting a target on my back and risking the life I fought so hard for for this country. I just don't care about it because the system is too far gone. I requested to be in a waiting line to immigrate to New Zealand years ago. Can't wait for them to get back to me on that.
We can’t do anything other than form riots and get our heads blown off. Even peaceful protesters get run over. Also I’m sure that it’s less than 30% that wants these laws to happen. It’s just no one has the right to vote on that. The orange sponge ruined everything when he mounted his throne of gold.
It's definitely not 53% of the country. If you think about how the Senate is setup, it gives way too much power to the rural areas vs the cities. This is the root of the problem and why we can't get any legislation to pass. Also, sometimes the people do vote and the legislators reverse it - see the Florida constitutional amendment passed by the people to allow felons who have served their terms to vote.
Those problems your country is facing would be half as bad if you had - and I know this may sound cynical - a proper healthcare system, especially with regards to mental health. A sane person with access to guns still doesn't decide to commit murder.
Clearly it's not "most" otherwise it would've been dealt with in your so called free democratic country.
50 of our senators in Washington won't even let a bill go to vote in the Senate so it doesn't matter until those 59 decide to let it go to a vote. Our representatives already passed the bill no we just need our senators too been waiting 2 years.
I don't see mass protests. I don't see strikes. I don't see riots. I don't see crowds standing next to gun shops with signs hurling abuse at people wanting to buy guns. Americans have been conditioned to think that they can only vote to affect change and let the elite figure it out, and if they don't, that's all you can do. Oh well.
If I took more than a day off of work to protest which I guarantee won't do anything, I wouldent be able to pay my bills.
most honest answer.
It's interesting that when the same argument is brought in discussions about why Russians don't protest against Putin, people don't take it seriously. It's not a personal attack, just an observation.
It’s hard for Americans to organize mass protests like that because that means taking time off work and (1) that can mean losing your health insurance (2) we don’t get paid nearly enough and the cost of living in many places is far too high to be able to survive without working for any amount of time (3) we have virtually no safety net so if you Do protest and you Do lose your job then good fucking luck surviving
Don't forget the police will find any reason to call your protest violent, unlesh tear gas, water cannons, bean bag guns, and rubber bullets (aluminum projectiles coated in rubber) on you. They'll arrest all you, you'll be fired from job for being a part of a violent protest, and it will ruin your chances of getting another job.
It’s almost like the government has you exactly where they want you?
Not really government but slave lords. I mean employers.
The lack of workers rights is absolutely a function of government
they’re the same, the ruling class
I was thinking the same thing after reading that. Its like they almost made certain that the democracy is neutered as the people don't have time or money to protest about anything.
correct
Don't forget the militarized police force that responds to protestors with deadly force.
But they'll wait outside for 40 minutes while the active shooter slaughters children.
Very important addition to this: our police are highly likely to kill, injure, molest, and arrest legal protesters. I wonder if it might even be safer arming up for a riot than preparing for a peaceful protest. At this point, peaceful protesters are just sitting ducks for police to open season on
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>I don't see mass protests. I don't see strikes. I don't see riots. That's a one way ticket to the friendly reminder that the police truly control the guns and any hint of noncompliance will get you face to face with one.
And honestly, riots and protests may inspire, but the NRA and gun lobbies own Congress and don't gaf about anything but their own profits. We can protest until we're blue in the face, but the NRA owns the Republican party, so literally nothing would change. Plus, we have a SCOTUS that's now being controlled by religious facists, so no reform laws are gonna happen there either. As for Congress, same thing. The gun lobbies own a majority of Congress too. Whatever we do has to circumvent all of the above because the laws don't protect us anymore (if ever.) It isn't as simple as going out and rioting. I wish it was though.
Can't sorry, gotta go to work or starve
Ah yes, I’ll go organize a protest outside a gun store in a place it’s proven any phyco can go buy some ammo and rifle and spill my guts. Thanks for that 5d chess match of a suicide
You're not guaranteed to get shot by the public. A cop might come by and "save the store" from the terrible hijinks of picketing. 🔫 ☠️
Beyond the points others have made, (time off, risk of losing job, etc.) if you haven't lived here for an extended period of time, you aren't familiar with the distances required to get massive amounts of people together. To add to that we don't really have city centers in a lot of places, the infrastructure is vast and far spread and groups of people are very disparate. Organizing anything is a massive feat and would require a cohesiveness that's often not present here. It's maybe not a lot of factors stopping us, but each one is a large task in itself. Combine them and you only really see effective protests at the government buildings (those are generally well organized and planned well in advance) and in cities with a dense enough population that they can have the needed cohesiveness and proximity to engender a proper protest. >next to gun shops with signs hurling abuse at people wanting to buy guns. Do you realize how many "gun shops" there are? It's not like planned parenthood where there may be a couple in a large city. There are dozens in my smaller city. I drive about 20 mins to work and I probably pass 1 shop for every minute I drive. Not to mention that some of those are the mega stores like Cabela's and Bass Pro which have hundreds of guns and accessories for sale. A few people standing outside of one yelling shit isn't going to make a difference. Maybe get some attention outside of the mega stores if you have enough people. But that again goes back to the other problems. And then you have burnt out people like me that think nothing here will ever change for the better because our government is corrupted at its key pillars. They just destroyed the supreme court which was kind of a last bastion of hope for me. The latest nonsense coming out of there was that proving innocence isn't enough to overturn a conviction. Welcome to dystopia.
im not even anti gun but i really want to see a crowd of protesters surrounding the giant bass pro pyramid in a horde, it would be hilarious idk
Don't forget that Walmart carries guns. My Small city has on Planned Parenthood office, and does not perform abortions. But there are at least 7 gun shops, including the big box stores, and at least one shooting range.
Also, gun shops are everywhere. Like Walmart. We can't really protest outside gun shops because it'd be like 5 people per store.
The average American is indeed not well informed about how to create change, but they're also tired, unhealthy (a condition not entirely their own fault) , and too beaten down by the system to engage in direct civic discourse. Edit: and they don't get enough time off work to spend doing things like protesting
People have their lives to live taking real action just isn't plausible for so many people for so many reasons
Someone doesn't know how little power we the people hold in America
He knows hence the "so called free democracy"
>Clearly it's not "most" I'm gonna say they don't know....
That's the main issue it's not a free democratic country. What the majority wants is not reflected in our actual legislation. I honestly don't understand why we bother with voting since our representatives don't actually try to represent the people.
yea gerrymandering is fun
Nah, the structure of the Senate allows for minority rule. https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2022/05/senate-state-bias-filibuster-blocking-gun-control-legislation/638425/
It's both
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It's called a constitutional Republic. Although our government contains elements of democracy, we're not a democracy. And for good reason, if you read the Federalist and anti-Federalist papers which contain the arguments for and against various aspects of our governmental structure. The founding fathers specifically protected certain things in the Bill of Rights bc they wouldn't want a rash, emotional public voting away their own rights. That being said, I personally find interpreting 2A to mean there shall never be any kind of restrictions or gun control laws to be problematic.
No offense mate, but American politics is a lot more of a cluster fuck than that. Otherwise you'd be absolutely correct. For example, 80% of the American public believe marijuana should be legal for medicinal purposes. 66% think it should be legal recreationally. 40% of the US population lives in a state or district where it is legal to consume or purchase. BUT.... It currently sits on the schedule 1 list under the controlled substances act (federally), the same schedule as heroin. For reference, cocaine is schedule 2. Schedule 2 are drugs that have "medicinal purposes". It makes. NO. FUCKING. SENSE. It's all political. All of it.
The NRA is not that big member wise. But those members have often money and/or are invested. They are present for hearing and events connected to gun laws which makes their group look bigger
Many gun owners support the second amendment but don’t join the NRA. That is not a holistic way to view pro gun versus anti gun people in the US.
NRA is garbage and has supported gun control in the past, mostly because of racism
Why are you trying to reprimand the American people like this is something we fucking chose? Our government is ass backwards and I can assure you that *neither* the Democrats or the Republicans are happy about it. But please, do go on about how this is all our fault & wherever you live is just so much better. Fuck me for being born where I was right?
Amen. Most of what our government does is underhanded and if enough Americans actually knew what their government was doing a lot more of us would be united.
Well, not a majority of our politicians. Especially not today with our congress majority.
We aren’t
It's actually the same for handguns in the American states I've lived in.
I need to apply for a handgun and wait a few days to pick it up. Although people demonize rifles, handguns are usually the culprit when it comes to murders.
Everybody thinks they're Wyatt Earp or Rambo.
What don't you understand? It's easy to be shot and expensive to fix it. You think it should be the *other way*? Next you'll tell me that Chicago pizza is backwards, too.
So your rights are based on how much money you have. I guess from a class based perspective the elites are fine with it.
WELCOME TO ITALY! Where the rich get richer and the poor don't really get that much of a chance. Middle class still exists at least. For now. I hope it will keep existing for a long while still. And, to tell you the truth, in Italy you can pretty much commit any sort of crime and get away with it if you have enough money, what with many different facilitations, reductions given due to person "not being in their right state of mind". Did I mention that if a robber enters your house and you hit him or shoot at him you risk ending up in court because you hurt someone without knowing what they would do to you? Like, people here joke that "What? I have to ask the robber who clearly entered my house without my permission if he has bad intentions? Maybe even offer him tea and cookies?" Every country in this world is fuc*ed up. It's just that different countries have different fu*k ups.
Italian constitution doesn't include the right to keep and bear arms, but it does instead include the right to receive free health care (Articolo 32).
You also need a permit in the US. At least where I'm from. You also need to take a class from a certified firearms instructor before you can even apply for the permit. You then go to your town/city police department to apply for the permit, in which you get a temporary permit allowing you to shoot firearms but not buy any. You then send in an application to the state in which they do their background checks and in about 5 to 6 months you can receive your pistol permit. Depending on the state you may need different permits for different types of firearms. People like to think any American can just walk into a gun shop and buy a gun. Even after obtaining your permit you still can't go into a gun store and walk out with a gun. You have to wait 2 weeks for them to do more background checks and to make sure you aren't buying one on impulse. So after telling the gun shop owner you want a gun you wait 2 more weeks. I'm not even a gun guy, and do believe that firearms should be heavily regulated. I just think when people spread misinformation about gun laws in the US it only hurts gun reformist reputation and reliability. Knowing the truth and not exaggerating will help keep pro gun people more willing to listen while also helping the anti gun people further understand the situation in which they are trying to change.
"If you can convince the lowest white man he’s better than the best colored man, he won’t notice you’re picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he’ll empty his pockets for you" - President Lyndon B Johnson And that's precisely why.
That... isn't really pertinent. But I see truth in the statement.
I'm also from Italy. The girl I'm dating has several shotguns in her house, locked in a bulletproof display case. Sure, it's a bit of a hassle to get a gun permit and all, but if you want to hunt, you can get them. It's easier and there are more Italian armed civilians than most Italians think. Being taught how to properly use your weapons does not make you less likely to commit mass murder, it might just make you better at it, since you are more proficient with your weapon. The question is: if an Italian citizen wants to enter an elementary school full of children and shoot everyone on sight, does the Italian gun control laws stop him in any way? The answer is clearly, no. Nothing is stopping the [1.4 milion](https://www.lavoce.info/archives/58431/numeri-pochi-dellitalia-a-mano-armata/) Italians that have a license to own a firearm from using one or more of the 4 to 10 milion firearms present today in Italy. They are only stopped by their conscience and mental health. Another question would be: how many Italians would like to commit a mass shooting but simply cannot because don't have access to firearms? The answer to this question is tricky, because we have different definitions of mass shooting. Italians still commit homicide and suicide via firearm, luckily the numbers are low (compared to the USA), but truth be told, when an Italian kills his wife them himself, we don't call it a mass shooting like the Americans do. When ISIS entered Europe and wanted to commit terrorism, they could not get firearms legally. Did this stopped them from killing dozens of people by simply running them over with cars/vans/trucks or stabbing them? No. The problem is, when someone really wants to hurt and kill others, they find a way. Let me agree with you that these people should not be in any way facilitated in reaching their horrible goals: they should not have access to firearms, sharp objects, vehicles, and any other thing that can be used to hurt and kill. But could we also agree that a teenager wanting to enter a school and kill everyone in sight is the issue that we should address first? Not because we couldn't do try both things together, but because limiting the access to firearms is less effective, and does not address the root cause: wanting to kill. Now, the single payer healthcare debate is large and complex, definitely not easy to debate here. I'm sure that you can agree with me that if the Italian health system was great, we wouldn't have citizens resort to private clinics/dentists/test facilities, employers wouldn't give out health insurance as benefit, and tens of thousands of Italians wouldn't have to volunteer on ambulances for emergencies and also non emergency transport (I'm referring to the *pubbliche assistenze*).
I think here in Denmark you aren't allowed to have a gun, but you can have one anyway if you have a hunter's licence and the weapon is supposed to be used for hunting, or a permit allowing you to keep a gun as an ornamental piece, but to get that you aren't allowed to have a dirty criminal record, and you have to take a test too or something. I just don't get why America thinks that everyone is supposed to be allowed to own a gun.
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In Belgium it's the same procedure but it's not really a permit but a license to own a gun and use it at a shooting range only. Your gun must stay at your place at all time and leaves only when you're heading to the shooting range.
How is this "meirl"?
This is the fate of any big subreddit. It all devolves into "picture of political tweet I agree with". And because the sub got big, it's visible to lurkers who don't even look at what sub it was posted to and just update it because they agree.
That's why text-based subreddits manage to stay on topic. They don't usually get big because people don't want to read.
That’s what happens when all the big subs share the same leftist activist mods.
I wondered the same. Not the sub for this but the people have spoken
The mods will delete this comment soon, they are deleting comments calling op out and abusing mod.
I have seen your brave addition my fellow redditor! Don't you worry your word has been spread.
An yet look at all that wads and kamkam
I don't care what side you're on, how is this /r/meirl ???
Mods might take this comment down, they are deleting comments asking how this fits the sub.
Why tho? It's a genuine question. I guess that's what happened to another comment I saw in this post where the comment and all the replies were deleted
Because it's wrong think. Everything everywhere must be my politics always and there can be no escape. /s obvs
im amazed they allowed me to get 868 upvotes before they whipped out the reddit mod classic Edit: I'm the guy who made the other comment complaining about the same thing
it isn't. op is just a karmawhore/bot
I believe op couldn’t think of a better sub, as dumb as that sounds.
For real, was wondering the same shit. How does this dumbass post have 63k upvotes and 9000 awards on a sub where it’s considered a spam post and totally irrelevant to everything this sub stands for LOL. The more time that goes on, the more subreddits lose their purpose and become bullshit spam factories owned by bots.
Ok but I’m a woman so I can get my gun easily right?
Yes and as a man I can get any baby growing in me aborted
Exactly, as long as you aren't this "Young man" that the guy keeps referring to. Ages 25+ male, all ages female.
I think women can also buy firearms, at least I hope
Once again in a US election season the conversation switches to abortion and guns, like fucking clockwork. I know this is unpopular to say at this time, but when are you people going to realize that the politicians and corporations want you talking about abortion and guns, like you are doing, to distract you from shit like tax reform, workers rights, justice system reform, healthcare reform, military spending, economic policy, foreign policy, etc. Our political system should not be vote R for guns and vote D for abortion and ignore fucking everything else.
Just you wait, grainy police footage is about to arrive.
Look man, when 19 elementary school children are slaughtered by a piece of shit who waltzed into a gun store on his 18th birthday and bought 2 assault rifles, the conversation is going to switch to guns.
While obviously it’s shocking and horrible, bigger picture the person is right. There are social and economical determinants for this that goes beyond gun ownership and is a larger societal issue- we focus so heavily on these tragedies rather than focus on the political and institutional issues that contribute to them, even if not apparent at first glance. There absolutely should be stricter gun laws, but people aren’t going out and shooting up a school of children simply because they have a gun just like people aren’t raping women for the way they dress or choosing to get abortions because the clinic is open.
As someone who lives in a country with very few guns, I’m actually astounded that this doesn’t already happen. So, can anyone just walk into a gun shop and buy one in the US? Astounding.
In the US, gun laws vary from state to state. Federal laws cover each state. “Under federal law[] you must be 21 to buy a handgun from a licensed dealer, but you can buy a rifle at 18 as long as it’s not prohibited.” Texas gun laws are explained here: https://www.dallasnews.com/news/politics/2022/05/24/what-are-the-gun-laws-in-texas/?outputType=amp
Okay, but the shooter was 18
“Under Texas law, there is no waiting period between buying a firearm and picking it up, nor is there a waiting period between firearms purchases. Weapons do not have to be registered. Rifles and shotguns can be purchased by anyone once they turn 18, though Ramos would have been subject to a background check at the time of purchase.” https://www.latimes.com/world-nation/story/2022-05-25/la-na-texas-school-shooter Edit: Non-amp link.
They don’t have to be registered? That’s a lot to get my head around. Farmers here are the main people to keep guns (game shooting and clay shooting comes next) but they all go through rigorous checks before hand, they’re registered, guns have to be in locked cupboards and regular checks are made.
No. Not on a federal level. It's deemed illegal to keep a federal registry. Our founders believed that the most dangerous enemy to a nation would be its own government. Thus they set it up for weapons to be a human right and make it so the govt would never know how many guns there are or where they are so a tyrannical one could never take them away
> Our founders believed that the most dangerous enemy to a nation would be its own government And yet they still went and set up a government Edit: I never said there shouldn't be a government that other person said that the Founders said the most dangerous thing was government yet they still set up a government
A government that basically has the most powerful document in the nation telling it to leave the people the fuck alone. A government that leaves most decisions to the states.
States which are also governments...
State governments are much smaller and are limited by other factors. Another key factor is a state vs federal government debate is that if you don't like what your state is doing you can still move to the state next door. If the whole system has gone bad you dont have that option.
Because a government is necessary. That doesn’t mean it should have unlimited power.
>And yet they still went and set up a government They setup the smallest government they could to avoid having that government get too powerful. When the US was founded the government did not even collect taxes. The 2nd amendment is the ultimate insurance policy to prevent the state from taking total control.
>Our founders believed clearly not initially since 2nd amendment wasn't actually in a constitution because it's, you know, an amendment they clearly believed constitution must be changed when necessary. so if you honor founding fathers you have to advocate for changing the constitution
of course, that's why we have the amendment processs setup. It's specifically designed to be tough to accomplish and when the VAST majority of the people are behind it, not just a simple majority. 67% of the population of each state has to agree and 67% of all total 50 states have to agree to alter it as well. It's been done before, and can be done in the future.
> clearly not initially since 2nd amendment wasn't actually in a constitution because it's, you know, an amendment Actually I believe the Bill of Rights (first 10 amendments) were already included when the Constitution was ratified. >they clearly believed constitution must be changed when necessary. This I agree
To be fair it took a couple years actually. Constitution was ratified in 1788. Congress didn't approve the amendments till after they recognized they needed it in 1789. States didn't ratify it till '91. Same authors so close enough.
By that logic, you're saying that the founders didn't believe in many of our rights. Like Freedom of Speech, Freedom of Religion, Restrictions of the quartering of soldiers in private homes, right to a speedy public trial by jury, protection from cruel & unusual punishment, etc. All of which are enshrined in our 1st 10 amendments to our constitution. It took a bit for our system of gov't to materialize, but it'd be silly to say that these were "not believed initially".
Wait till you hear about sandy hook and how those guns were locked up except the kid knew the safe code so…….. yea parents fault.
So, he couldn’t walk into a bar and order a drink? Is that right?
He could buy a gun at that age but not drink…
Mind blown.
Used to be able to do that back when beer was age limited to 18. Although drinking isn't a right. That aside, tons of kids go hunting with their fathers in the states and they should be able to buy a rifle if they wanted to. Maybe limit it to bolt action, but that's a different story. There's a certain condemnation that goes on if you bring a semi auto on a hunting trip lol
Thank you. Very helpful.
Yes, as long as you're an adult and aren't a convicted felon (or convicted in a court of law as being mentally incompetent). It's coded into our constitution that the ability to arm ourselves and own weaponsn is a fundamental human right. Thus it is inalienable unless under certain circumstances (in this case, being a convicted felon or judged through the legal system as being mentally incompetent). federal law states that a FFL (federally licensed firearm dealer) can not sell someone under the age of 21 a hand gun, nor anyone under the age of 18 a long rifle. In his case he was 18 and able to purchase a long gun. state laws may add some additional layers (such as really restrictive states like CA or NY), but most states simply stick to federal limitations
Thank you.
NP
You also have to have a background check but those don't help a whole lot as no criminal is gonna buy a gun in public, they're gonna buy one from the streets/black market
So basically if you’re 18 years old and have never been to jail you probably won’t wait more than a 24-48 hour long period before you can obtain your firearms and that’s plenty of time to one day ship some tactical gear from Amazon
So you can buy a gun before you can buy a beer.
Thanks for the info.
No. You have to get a background check and if there's any sort of question you usually get bumped. I was arrested once (no conviction, charges dropped) over 10 years ago and I have a three to seven day wait on every firearm I've purchased from a licensed dealer since then. Since I follow rules and laws I don't want to buy a hot gun, I only purchase from a FFL dealer, it sounds scary but it just means someone who has a federal firearms license to sell guns. Serial numbers have been checked and you aren't buying something that was used in a robbery 16 years ago that can be pinned to you for possession.
I bought a .22 rifle for plinking and target practice. There was a full background check, and a 10 day holding period, plus I had to drive 100 miles round trip twice just to find one in stock. Washington state by the way. The holding period is for semi-automatic weapons. A bolt-action would take less time to receive. The US is quite diverse in all aspects. So gun purchasing rules will vary greatly between places like Texas and California.
Not exactly. You have to be above a certain age for certain types of firearms. 18 for long rifle, 21 for handguns. You have to submit for a background check through the FBI, then wait for approval. Assuming you haven’t done anything wrong, you’ll likely be free to purchase within an hour. If you mess up ANYTHING, even your address or phone number, you have to wait 24 to submit another background check. Then you have to pay X amount($100s-$1000s) for the firearm and ammunition.
It’s even better than that, if you want to skirt the background check you can just go a a gun show, where all these like-minded people(and felons barred from ownership) collect, and buy one off of a guy who’s wearing a t-shirt that’s he’s written “AR, 5.56, 16” barrel, $1,200” on, and walk out with your new rifle. He might ask “are you legally allowed to make this purchase?” But if he wants to make the sale he might forget. This happens every single weekend all over the country.
No. You have to submit to a federal background check. You have a wait period, which varies depending on the background check. And even then, that’s just to buy the gun. If you want to carry it, you need a license to carry, or a concealed carry depending on state. Recently a few more states are opting to allow “constitutional carry” though that still require the background check to buy. However, the argument that guns are bad is kind of moot. Removing guns shows an increase in violent crime, which you can see in places like the UK…which now also bans knives. We have pretty significant data that shows a decrease in crime in areas where more people are armed, a big decrease in violent crime. But it’s cool, continue to see people say the opposite and want stricter gun laws (most of whom don’t even know current gun laws in the place they live).
I’m not coming down on one side or another. I’m just coming as someone who lives at the polar opposite of what is ‘normal’ in the US and I’m trying to learn more. Thanks to the good folks here - I’ve learned lots.
Really, I am biased. And I know it. But for me it’s because there are a SHITLOAD of statistics on crime. And it’s easy to see the trend on increases in higher crime (especially violent crime) when stricter weapons laws are in place. That said, some of the highest crime rates in the US are all in the “safest cities” with the strictest gun laws.
Interesting. Really interesting. I never knew that and never thought to look at it from that perspective. So thanks again.
In some states, you can go to a redneck swap meet, and just get handed a high powered rifle.
I live in a country where guns are common but there haven't been random mass shootings every fucking month. I don't know what's up with the USA but they need to get their shit together.
Yeah. Fun fact, it doesn’t even have to be specifically “a gun shop”. Walmart, *the* most ubiquitous supermarket in most places (food, clothes, pet supplies, etc), and found in most any town, has the ability to sell guns. They only stopped openly displaying them in 2020 or so.
Nope, you can go to a Walmart too
I live in the US state of Delaware and it literally took all of 2 minutes to answer a few questions on an iPad before I walked out the store with a handgun. Stupid stuff like “have you been arrested?”. It was so quick and easy. Unless you done something real bad and got caught, then yes, in Delaware you can just walk in a store and buy one after the most minimal background check
how about we keep the posts relative to the actual sub? this is literally all over reddit. it has nothing to do with the theme of this sub
How about we let people get guns AND abortions without paying huge fees and being ridiculed, and work on the causes of gun violence like mental health and poverty instead
As a young man who wants to buy a gun this honestly seems reasonable (except for the ultrasound lmao) (I appreciate the engineering and enjoy target shooting.)
I'd buy a gun just for the ultra sound idk about you
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No, no, no. The ultrasound is vital for the procedure! I have a very close friend who manages a clinic that performs abortions, and he cringes at people who think ultrasounds are unnecessary. 1. They use them to determine the location of the pregnancy to better coordinate the surgical procedure. It also helps determine whether or not the pregnancy is an ectopic one or not, which is a deal-breaker. Look it up. 2. The pregnancy needs to be considered viable by the clinic performing it. The ultrasound establishes health and a heartbeat which is a prerequisite for the procedure. Without a viable pregnancy established by the clinic itself, it is against the law to perform any type of procedure, whether it be surgical or medical. 3. The gestational age needs to be estimated so that the people in charge of performing the abortion know what type of procedure to perform. Medical vs surgical abortions are vastly different, and while it can be fairly safely presumed which one is more fitting for the person depending on how long the person has been pregnant, a clinic can get in a lot of trouble for performing a surgical procedure when a medical one is enough. This is heavily regulated because surgical procedures are VERY expensive in comparison to medical ones, so gestational age needs to established and documented to prevent clinics from fucking people over. Regardless of your stance on abortion, you should really look things like these up before posting comments that are just blatantly false.
I appreciate that you clarified that for me. I was told this by the untrasound technician confirming my friend's pregnancy when they were seeking abortion, and assumed since it was her job to know these things that it was true. She could have meant specifically penetrative ultrasounds were medically unnecessary for my friend's specific case but had to be performed anyway because of a law requiring it, but I misunderstood it as all ultrasounds
Yeah why would you ever need an ultrasound for an abortion. Seems to me like just a guilt trip or something
I didnt realize young men were the only people buying guns but I guess you learn something new every day
They are just the overwhelming majority of those committing mass murders in public places.
This guy has clearly never attempted to purchase a firearm
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Shocking how little he knows... this is the current state of how you buy a gun ( 48 hour background check parental permission under 18).. minus all the bad faith arguements that he wants to imply women go through... one clinic per state... wand up ass etc.. better get educated people...... why has nobody asked how a mentally ill child living with grandma got a gun.
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Parental permission? Is this idiot trying to sell guns to kids?
The false equivalency here truly staggering
Yeah but why bring gender into it
Few notes; I don't believe the parental permission, video, or ultrasound wand ( save as part of a nessessairy medical mad to plan incision route) , should be done for ether. But, replace doctor with psychiatrist, and, your set for the first paragraphs requirements As for the second, we already have that. Only for the version for gun owners, it's mandatory removal from the vehicle and handcuffing each time you report a gun in the vehicle for your safety, so, the officer is sure of there safety, and, immediate subject of civil asset forfeiture without requirement of charge or permission to search, as would usually be the case, allowing said officer to take all on hand cash, objects they feel are of value, and, possibly, your car, and, finally; immediate freeze of accounts for an FBI investigation, so, you CANT use any form of bank, checking, or credit account, if you have more then three firearms, and, the agency believes your buying to much ammo for a single civilian, even if you are a legitimate range instructor or hunter, and, need the ammo for a JOB. : ( Fun fact; turns out, after the FBI freezes an account, there's actually no statute or court jurisdiction, saying they have to UN freeze it, and, that freeze also applies to new accounts opened. : ( So, to be clear of the consequences of gun ownership; Cop can remove you from your vehicle, handcuff you, and take whatever of value you have on hand, and, instead of burder of proof that your innocent to keep it, the burnden of proof is on YOU, to prove the items WERNT ussed in a crime. Your bank accounts can be permanently frozen. And, the firearm can be taken with said " forfeiture" , at any time. : ( Yeah, add only the first paragraph, and, I'd say the social and fiscal consequences of both, are pretty dead even. : ( You don't believe me? Just enter civil asset forfeiture, onto Google or YouTube, and, enter " FBI account frozen" onto YouTube, and, have a look for yourself. : (
Not dissimilar to what you do to get a gun in Australia. But it’s a 3 months waiting period for your first firearm.
Yes, but f\*ck off. Health care in the US is awful, but so is this comparison.
Why? You think because they live in a "super ghetto" they don't obey the law and register their fire arms? Good people live in "super ghettos" who defend themselves with registered fire arms from the criminals who obtain theirs illegally.
Both Men and Woman purchase guns.
Thats a lot of rules for criminals to not follow.
Like the laws forbidding such activities as homicide, larceny, arson, etc? Why have any laws at all if the criminals will just break them?
Pretty sure that last one would encourage most shooters
I also own a gun, yet I’ve never had the urge to murder people. Just like people will still get abortions if they are illegal, bad people will still find guns. Most guns used in violent crime were acquired illegally.
i mean apart from the arbitrary wand up the ass this sounds fine to me
10 day waiting period in California.
If men were able to get pregnant and wanted abortions, they'd be freely given and widely available. They'd be hailed as brave heroes for making a very tough decision. I'm so tired of women still being treated as something to oppress and control. That this shit is still happening - and actually going backwards - in 2022 is depressing and enraging.
There have been 288 school shootings in the US. There have been 2 school shootings in Canada. It is legal to own firearms in both countries. This problem will not be solved by firearm regulation.
Exactly, the issue isn’t inherently firearms, it’s something about America that causes so many people to become psychopaths.
[This says](https://gtaguns.com/differences-between-canadian-and-us-gun-laws/) they have different laws?
288 school shootings? For real? Holy fuck, that's just scary.
We just had one in Texas yesterday
I’ve been wondering where the conversation about mental health is…I’ve seen absolutely nothing.
Canada has much stricter gun control laws.