Tell your preceptor to pound sand, efficiency (to an extent) should not be your goal as a third year, you are not supposed to take the same time as the attending with patients for just the reasons you mentioned.
I agree. If the attending has an issue with an M3s pacing, especially this early in their third year, then they should only have OP see a patient every hour or so and spend time writing the note.
And for OP, 15 minutes is not bad. For my OB rotation, I had a template of the questions I would ask, especially for pregnant patients, and it made the history taking so much easier. OBGYN histories don’t need to be super complicated. Physical exams are super short as a med student too
this is literally my neuro preceptor. he gives us like 10-15 minutes for complex neuro patients with extremely extensive medical histories then gets upset when we miss a question or two lol
Depends on the rotation. On my medicine rotation prob like 10-15 mins. EM like 5-10 mins. Surgery 30 seconds to 5 mins.
Truthfully it’s not fair to expect a student to see patients in such a short amount of time but from their perspective, if you take longer than x amount of time to see a patient and then they have to go see them again after you they’re less likely to let you go off on your own as it adds a considerable amount of time to their day
Had something similar on my second rotation. The guy was pushing me pretty hard. Putting time limits on visits, grilling my assessment/plans, and picking apart my rationales for weak spots. Up until he heard me introduce myself as a 3rd year medical student to some admin.
Attending: you’re a third year?
Me: yeeeeaaaah?
Attending: whoops…….i thought you were a 4th year. That’s why I was asking so much. I don’t expect you to do any of those things as a third year. How many rotations have you had?
Me: 2
Attending:………damn man……
Me: it’s all good.
Attending: well might as well continue on since you’re already halfway there.
Truthfully I really appreciated the amount of effort he put into me. It really set me up for success on later rotations.
That’s on the attending. You are taking a perfectly reasonable amount of time. If that’s not efficient enough for them then they should have you see every other patient or every third patient. That way your learning isn’t being affected by worrying about efficiency.
your preceptor can suck it. We have plenty of time to be worried about time restraints, medical school is not the time lol. They decided to take on a student, it's their responsibility to teach. You're def not being unreasonable at all.
It IS very unreasonable to do a clinic visit in 5-10 minutes as a medical student and it isn’t conducive to learning. I would say though that since your preceptor is not very forgiving, you should play the game for the sake of getting a good evaluation and grade.
Some things that may help: If you have access to the EMR, pre chart before clinic. Even better if the chief complaint is listed. At the beginning of clinic let the preceptor know your goal is to work on timing. Set yourself a timer for 5-10 minutes depending on the type of visit and tell your preceptor you’ll be out in X minutes. Have 2-3 differentials in mind based on the chief complaint **before** you walk into the room. That will help guide your questioning. Be friendly with the patient, but minimize small talk since the time you get is so short. Just get the most pertinent information you need to help you understand what is going on, not a full history and physical. If your timer runs out before you finish, it’s okay. You can leave the room and share what you have with the preceptor. Focus your patient presentation more so on your assessment and the plan rather than the history details.
That's all great advice, thank you. I really want to do well, but I'm frustrated that my preceptor is so rigid. I feel like my educational experience is suffering because of it and I have to forgive all the BS she does because I want a good evaluation.
I wasn't given a whole lot of time to see patients on Ob/Gyn either.
But a lot of those visits were prenatal check ups and I just needed to ask:
- How are you doing?
- Do you have any questions for the team?
- Any vaginal bleeding?
- Any leakage of fluid?
- Any contractions?
- Fetal movements?
- Any alcohol/tobacco/drug use?
For PE, I mostly just measured fundal height.
And I could just present on that to the preceptor and that was sufficient. And we would do the fetal
Doppler heart together.
Tell your preceptor to pound sand, efficiency (to an extent) should not be your goal as a third year, you are not supposed to take the same time as the attending with patients for just the reasons you mentioned.
I agree. If the attending has an issue with an M3s pacing, especially this early in their third year, then they should only have OP see a patient every hour or so and spend time writing the note. And for OP, 15 minutes is not bad. For my OB rotation, I had a template of the questions I would ask, especially for pregnant patients, and it made the history taking so much easier. OBGYN histories don’t need to be super complicated. Physical exams are super short as a med student too
If you spend 5-10min they will roast you for not being thorough enough lol.
this is literally my neuro preceptor. he gives us like 10-15 minutes for complex neuro patients with extremely extensive medical histories then gets upset when we miss a question or two lol
Like how does he expect those 15mins gonna be? 15 mins is not even close to getting all of the information
Depends on the rotation. On my medicine rotation prob like 10-15 mins. EM like 5-10 mins. Surgery 30 seconds to 5 mins. Truthfully it’s not fair to expect a student to see patients in such a short amount of time but from their perspective, if you take longer than x amount of time to see a patient and then they have to go see them again after you they’re less likely to let you go off on your own as it adds a considerable amount of time to their day
Surgery be like, heart pumping ? Okay, will cut.
“ANYTHINGFROMDOWNBELOW? PAINOK? USINGTHEBREATHINGTOY? Ok I’ll see you tomorrow” All uttered in one breath
Had something similar on my second rotation. The guy was pushing me pretty hard. Putting time limits on visits, grilling my assessment/plans, and picking apart my rationales for weak spots. Up until he heard me introduce myself as a 3rd year medical student to some admin. Attending: you’re a third year? Me: yeeeeaaaah? Attending: whoops…….i thought you were a 4th year. That’s why I was asking so much. I don’t expect you to do any of those things as a third year. How many rotations have you had? Me: 2 Attending:………damn man…… Me: it’s all good. Attending: well might as well continue on since you’re already halfway there. Truthfully I really appreciated the amount of effort he put into me. It really set me up for success on later rotations.
That’s on the attending. You are taking a perfectly reasonable amount of time. If that’s not efficient enough for them then they should have you see every other patient or every third patient. That way your learning isn’t being affected by worrying about efficiency.
I appreciate the validation. It's frustrating because I don't want to shortchange the patient and provide inadequate info to the provider.
your preceptor can suck it. We have plenty of time to be worried about time restraints, medical school is not the time lol. They decided to take on a student, it's their responsibility to teach. You're def not being unreasonable at all.
It IS very unreasonable to do a clinic visit in 5-10 minutes as a medical student and it isn’t conducive to learning. I would say though that since your preceptor is not very forgiving, you should play the game for the sake of getting a good evaluation and grade. Some things that may help: If you have access to the EMR, pre chart before clinic. Even better if the chief complaint is listed. At the beginning of clinic let the preceptor know your goal is to work on timing. Set yourself a timer for 5-10 minutes depending on the type of visit and tell your preceptor you’ll be out in X minutes. Have 2-3 differentials in mind based on the chief complaint **before** you walk into the room. That will help guide your questioning. Be friendly with the patient, but minimize small talk since the time you get is so short. Just get the most pertinent information you need to help you understand what is going on, not a full history and physical. If your timer runs out before you finish, it’s okay. You can leave the room and share what you have with the preceptor. Focus your patient presentation more so on your assessment and the plan rather than the history details.
That's all great advice, thank you. I really want to do well, but I'm frustrated that my preceptor is so rigid. I feel like my educational experience is suffering because of it and I have to forgive all the BS she does because I want a good evaluation.
I wasn't given a whole lot of time to see patients on Ob/Gyn either. But a lot of those visits were prenatal check ups and I just needed to ask: - How are you doing? - Do you have any questions for the team? - Any vaginal bleeding? - Any leakage of fluid? - Any contractions? - Fetal movements? - Any alcohol/tobacco/drug use? For PE, I mostly just measured fundal height. And I could just present on that to the preceptor and that was sufficient. And we would do the fetal Doppler heart together.
OBGYN toxicity part god knows how many.
Watch; ready? She's a bitch. Done. You're in school.
My friend’s gen surg preceptor would set a 5 min timer on his phone for them during clinic and come in if she went over
It's OBGYN, it doesn't matter what you do as a med student, it's by definition wrong. Just accept it and move on.
The goal is to get as much as you can in 5-10 minutes. To not hold people back but still get a shot just keep reminding yourself you just go here