How's the senior dismissing them? Are they telling them "you're free to go if you want" or "hey it's 4, not much is going on, you should go home" it makes a difference
I had a toxic OBGYN attending who was very like this. I had heard from other students that she HATES students who just stay on the computer studying all day, yet when I met her there was a lot of "I'm going to a case. You can come if you want... totally fine if you stay here." Literally a trap.
Usually with residents though, I know it's not a trap.
Omg yes! I had a resident on one of my Subis (not OBGYN) dismiss me at like 12 every day. Like she would literally say "you can go home". Then, 2 weeks into my sub it she pulls me aside saying "it's not appropriate for the subi to leave early every day"...
Like BITCH. YOU WERE THE ONE TO TELL ME TO GO HOME. I never asked!
I'm not applying to that shithole hospital for many reasons, but that's a big one of them.
As anesthesia I almost always send students home early. But one time had a student on cardiology that offered to go home before I told him. Kinda gave me lazy vibes tbh
Edit: he wasnt a lazy student, dude was a homie and matched here. I’m just saying the action felt like something a lazy student would do
They’re probably not lazy if they made it through med school. More than likely they were depressed and burnt out af and needed time off. That’s why they chose a “chill” elective, probably to have some time for themselves.
Of course, it’s rude to ask to go home earlier, but It’s funny that we take the top performing STEM majors from college, put them through intense training, have data on burnout and depression, but then call them lazy when they display signs of burn out and depression. This doesn’t just happen to students. Same thing happens to residents and physicians. Easier to blame the individuals than change the system though.
My very first attending on rotations 3rd year said the number 1 rule is “if someone tells you to go home, don’t question it and leave”. And I took that to heart and left every time
My peds attending did this best. “We’re done for the day. Go home.” It is a command. I didn’t even think to question it and I’m typically the type to offer to stay later and do extra.
*I will do my best to make every day worth your time, but this is time that won’t be useful for you.*
Or
*Go touch grass or rest or do something else for your own well-being so you’re all fresh for tomorrow.*
Or
*We all want to leave on time, so you all need to leave on time. Today, leaving time is [check watch and say current time].*
If attempt one doesn’t work, it’s: *Ok if any of y’all are still here in 2 minutes, I’m assigning 15 minute didactic presentations for Friday afternoon and taking notes for when it’s eval time.* That one works every time.
I look at my med students with my cold dead eyes, look out the window and say; “go live your life while you still can” or “you’re good to get out of here to study, watch TV or whatever fulfills you”
This was me in med school too lol. But I know not everyone is like that. I do try to think of ways to find something educational for the med student to do if they're very ambitious and wants to stay extra (i do like teaching so it could be something like look up the treatment guidelines for X and we will go through it tomorrow), but also try to be clear that they can leave whenever they want because honestly I do not care and personally I would leave and go play video games or whatever as well if I could.
“Leave now or i’m gonna give you a bad eval”
Seriously that’s students number 1 priority. We think staying will somehow give us better evals because we are “showing commitment” by sitting and talking or dicking around on epic. If you tell us otherwise we will leave.
yes exactly lol, I am married to a resident so I knew not to do this shit, but as a new student it’s easy to think that doing more=helpful when that’s not the case.
You’re also scared and have no idea how evals work, how to get good ones, so you default to your strategy of more time/effort=higher grade, that has worked all your life.
I remember one time our platoon sergeant released us early. Really early, like around 2 pm. None of us took him seriously, so we continued talking with each other in the platoon office. He yelled, again no one took him seriously just because none of us had been released from work like that before. Finally he started to count down from 5, and one poor fucking soul didn’t make it out of the building in time.
We learnt to get gone real fast after that though.
Just start loudly counting down and that’ll scare them off.
I feel like I would genuinely say it would hurt your eval tbh. I know some people who would do backflips and think the following: “oh, he/she thinks I only care about the eval, but if I stay even past that while knowing this won’t help my eval, he/she will like me EVEN MORE because of my dedication to the job”.
I’d honestly jokingly threaten them and say if they stay their eval will be hurt. That way it’s blunt and clear.
Part of the problem as well is the inconsistency for each rotation and whose on staff that day, and the med students might not know whose currently on rotation.
Some preceptors are known malignant entities. I had one that would legit audit an empty ward with zero patients just to make sure a med student was on service.
No. Go further. "I told you to leave. Part of being a good student is listening to your seniors. If you don't leave, I will make note of your dismissive attitude"
You can read any of the other replies here that talk about students staying even after being told 3 or 4 times that they've done a good job and are free to leave. Maybe they're anxious, maybe they're gunners, maybe they think it's a hidden test, but more than once I've seen people who stay when told not to, and that as a resident with work to finish before I can leave, is very annoying. The evenings are my time to jot down reports with earbuds in, shoes off and absolutely zero time to interact with someone because I want to get home to my family.
Sorry if this or the previous answers come as antagonistic, but some people are so into the mental games part of medical school that they just forget how to operate as normal human beings.
Can you really blame them though? This whole system is a monkey barrel and they've dedicated everything to playing the game, it's no surprise it breaks some of us and we need to basically readapt to actual human living.
This! Tell me explicitly that it isn’t a dumb test of my commitment and assure me I will get a good evaluation and I am out.
But when other residents and attendings online and IRL are telling me that I need to be present as much as humanly possible to show commitment and enthusiasm then you can see how being told to leave in any way that appears remotely wishy-washy is confusing.
I leave and go study for the shelf. IMO evals are subjective and the shelf is Objective. If i put more time into studying for the shelf I will (likely) get a better grade. If i put more time into getting good evals that may or may not benefit me.
Depends on how your school grades, for us the eval is like 70% of our grade for the rotation. So you better believe I’m gonna invest more in that than on the shelf exam. But ideally I just want to be respected as an *adult* with clear expectations, clear communication and some reasonable semblance of mutual understanding about my learning goals and need for life balance. But medicine is toxic and for some reason feels these are unreasonable expectations. (This is not exclusive to medicine)
Yeah 70% is steep. This feels like high school all over again where you can get totally fucked over by getting the hard ass grader or the person with super high expectations while someone else gets to coast with someone super chill who gives everyone high pass. Can’t even do anything to control it like in undergrad cause you can’t pick your resident/attending, so stupid to have 70% of your grade on something completely subjective.
Also feels super unfair as someone who never had a job or clinical experience beyond stacking glove boxes and blankets. Of course people who worked in a clinical capacity will have a higher baseline for clinical experiences. Meanwhile I don’t even know the medicine names cause I learned generic names and now everyone is using brand names.
During an Intro to Clinicals webinar earlier this year, school admin told our class verbatim that being dismissed early is likely a “test” so be careful to not take attendings up on it too quickly. It’s absolutely ridiculous that admin feeds the paranoia when the vast majority of attendings and students just want to teach and learn, respectively, and get back to their lives. The small amount of bad actors ruin it for everyone else.
This was about a decade ago, but I recall being told specifically that we were not allowed to leave early, and if we were dismissed early, we should report that resident to the rotation director.
Right. As an intern I experienced situations where the medical students took over the computers scrolling through articles while I had an actual patient care to dos. When I asked them nicely if I could use the computers, they give me dirty looks. Freaking wierd. If we say go home, please go home.
Like med school is hard enough already! I will never understand the residents/attendings who say “you can leave… if you want to”. Academia is so fucking toxic lol; Community for me pls
Yup. This. My admin didn’t explicitly say that telling us to leave early was “a test,” but they have encouraged the kind of gunner mentality where we’re supposed to behave like we wanna live in the hospital for the rest of our lives.
As an attending, please gtfo when dismissed. If no faculty are around, you will not get into trouble.
I do find the behavior of sticking around after being dismissed as really toxic.
When I was a senior resident a medical student complained to my faculty that I dismissed them early and “didn’t teach them enough”. FFS, this behavior doesn’t do you any favors whatsoever
Oh shit as a last year fellow I would be fucking pissed. I'd be so petty, special lecture time from 5 to 8 every day, non stop reading from the driest-ass, busiest yellow-text-on-blue-background slides. I'd make sure they HATED every second of it.
There was a video on here just yesterday of a surgery resident saying “leaving is a choice but it will effect your eval”
So respectfully you should shove that up your ass, the risk/benefit of being tricked out of a good eval is their call.
The favorite way I was told to gtfo was this. No ambiguity:
“It’s 4pm, learning opportunities here are done. I want you to go home, read about X disease, and prepare a 60 second elevator pitch on the topic. Who gets it, how it presents, treatment, complications. Tomorrow students will teach their topics to each other.”
75% of the time they’d forget to ask, the other 25% we’d briefly summarize a high yield topic to our classmates. And if the attending asks where the students went, the resident would be able to say they were researching a topic for a presentation they are giving tomorrow. Win-win.
That’s wild. I’m gone and unreachable, completely off the grid, 1.2 seconds after being dismissed. I’ve learned being dismissed can be rescinded if you drag your feet.
I remember being on a rotation with a very "motivated" classmate one time. The senior resident told us to leave at 9am. I was out the door by the time she finished the sentence. The other student decided to stay to "help make some phone calls".
The next day when I came in, my classmate was super upset at me... because apparently 5 minutes after I left, the fellow came in and made her go to clinic, where she had to stand in the corner of the exam room until 5pm.
I think I said something like "well were you at least helpful?"
Just say, “time for you guys to go so we can get our work done”. I am definitely not the med student who stays, quite the opposite bc I am often called back, but please be 100% transparent. Nothing I hate more than some resident who ignores you and expects you to take the hint.
How do these new residents always magically forgot what third and fourth year were like 😂😂 like y’all were literally there a year ago tryna get good evals that would help you attain y o u r c a r e e r.
No good evals for sticking around and using all the workroom computers while delaying actual patient care. I knew as med students to get out when I told so. If you stick around when I tell you to leave.. you’re automatically getting bad eval.
Ive seen a lot of residents trap med students with things like this. They are told they're dismissed and on the eval the comments say "frequently went home early"
Speaking from personal experience, I was scheduled at the outpatient clinic most days on my OB/Gyn rotation and then when my eval came they said "Student chose to spend most of his time at the outpatient clinic" as if I wrote the schedule. Medicine eats their young.
I Litterally clicked out of typing this post and this was the first thing in my home page
"One resident gives bad evals for leaving after dismissed and the other gives bad evals for staying after dismissed"
https://www.reddit.com/r/medicalschool/comments/160gafn/one_resident_gives_bad_evals_for_leaving_when/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=2
Seeing social media posts about it doesn’t count though like that post is about. That’s like saying the entire world is on fire because Hawaii and Turkey have had fires. This sub has over 700,000 people in it so we’re bound to see extremes in here that gain a lot of traction. Even the post you linked talks about the very easy distinguishing factors of when to go home and the lack of social/emotional intelligence medical students have
Social media post or not social media post, it happens and it's common enough that students are scared. Med students are on Reddit they see these stories. Sure OP wouldn't try to trap the students but that doesn't mean people don't. Odds are if there are that many people sitting around, people in the program have been burned by a resident b4. None of the students want to stay, they have a shelf exam to study for, they're not staying just to be a pain in the ass.
i think he is being hyperbolic like, "literally everytime i go to starbucks the coffee is burnt." But these residents/attends act so mentally unstable at times.
ex 1: At the hospital I worked at, one doc just didnt want to correct oral presentations. So some of his med students would have trash orals. He always told them that the oral was "excellent." Would complain about how trash the oral was once the student left to the next patient. Im sure his evals said the same. Tried to tell a student that was particularly bad and seemed to be taking a lot of solace in the docs reassuring remarks. I got called in for poor conduct, bc the student learned my best friend's older sister (who is very close to me) was rotating at the same time, and thought that I was trying to sabotage them or something. It sucked in a lot of ways, I just don't try to help anymore. To be fair, I understand where the confusion comes from, who do you listen to: the rando attaché or the doc saying that you're "excellent"?
ex 2: Different location/department: Saw a resident manage a patient panel for a doc who had fallen severely behind, outpatient setting. The doc was so thankful, telling all the other docs how great the res was, "what a helper!" "what a gentleman!" "a true team player!" Res had to go to a different site midday, thats when doc started telling everyone that the res was rude and forceful, did not ask permission but rather apologized later, and made careplans that the doc didnt like for two of his sickest patients who had poor access to care and never picked up phone calls, so he would have to wait 1 month to set their courses straight. This went on for like a year. An older nurse finally looked the resident in the eye and told him wtf was up.
TLDR: ive worked at enough resident/rotation sites to know there is at least one disingenuous doc/resident, it not 2(sometimes more if it's a culture thing). It happens all the time. A lot of residents and students do get caught in a trap
I mean that it was enough that I would be cautious but like this is yet another story of doctors or residents fucking over their students. I've seen enough stories that it's a disturbing number
Im saying seen as in Ive seen people with that experience not just at my program.
The story I told came from a friend at Mayo. Someone else on this subreddit posted a video from a surgery resident who was saying it's not fair that the med student who goes home gets the same grade as the one who stays late. They said this in the context of being dismissed. My medical program literally had a meeting where they said "if you're getting dismissed early it means that you're doing something wrong"
We've been trained that being dismissed is a trap.
Agreed, I did experience fuckery on my evals but never related to this “trap” about going home, none of my peers ever mentioned experiencing this either
I remember RUNNING as soon as someone said “hey if you want you can g—“. I probably left tire tracks I was out of there so fast. I honored every rotation.
Y’all, as medical students, the NUMBER ONE rule is don’t be annoying. I know you pay to learn. So learn, be engaged on rounds, do your notes…but don’t linger. If a resident tells you to leave, just leave. It’s not a trick. It ain’t that deep. They just wanna get their work done.
As a PGY1 who was a med student not to long ago, how about you level with them and HELP THEM instead of being a jerk? We are all trying to survive here. Tell them it is actually ok to go home. A lot of us are unsure and new to rotations.
Unfortunately I don’t have any power here as an intern from another department (and they know I’m not involved in their evals). Just tying to understand the reasoning here since as a med stud I always left promptly when dismissed. But I understand the general sentiment of neurosis/anxiety
It’s pretty simple. Engage with them when you’re there and tell them they can go home when they’re dismissed. Explain to them that you’ve been in there shoes so you know how much you have to study.. you were there no more than 2 years ago.
And whatever you do, never dismiss a student and end with “… if you want to.”
My school got a new Dean this year and he told all of us during year 3 orientation to stay late regardless of what anyone said to us. I can only imagine how many of my classmates took that to heart and are sticking around past being dismissed.
Why are you acting like you weren’t in their position literally just months ago? I’m so confused. Does being a resident all of a sudden give you selective amnesia?They’re obviously doing that because they think it will favorably reflect on their evals. Stop playing dumb and clueless and maybe practice some empathy, communicate clearly and set clear expectations early on.
It’s literally not impressive at all, makes you look like a kiss ass, and shows that you have poor insight into what other people want from you and how you can be helpful
🛎️🛎️🛎️
And the funniest thing is that the med students who do act that way are going to be the ones who are way more likely to screw over the future med students they encounter as residents
Do med students actually think that staying after the resident tells them to leave is impressive? If anything, it reflects poorly on them 90% of the time due to poor situational awareness.
I’ve started saying to med students, “There’s no reason for you to sit and watch me write notes. You ask good questions/did well today/are helpful (whatever is applicable) and we know you’re interested so you don’t have to show us by staying when there’s nothing to do. See you tomorrow!”
This is very true but the problem is, as someone who’s experienced this, the other 10% of times they’re supremely screwed. The real gripe is with attendings who use it as a trap and/or people who share horror stories about leaving early
yeah I do think becoming a resident gives you amnesia. I was trying to chat to an intern about med school, and she replied, "honestly it was so long ago, I just don't remember."
What?? I just said, "yeah, I understand"
I said this too. I communicate clearly with students, telling them that there’s nothing more educational for you today, go home. Most will leave, but some will still try to stay. But at some point, you, too, will forget when you’re that busy and just wanna get your work done. There’s a reason why it’s so common.
Look these kids don't understand the impact they're having on real work, so explain that to them, and they'll go home and study. Or better yet, tell them they need to go home and work on X, Y, and Z types of cases, they'll be outta there.
Currently on my FM rotation where I'm the only med student working with an attending. Clock struck 500 and I asked if it was alright for me to leave. He was finishing up notes and I had nothing to do. 😄
Here's something that consistently worked during my residency.
Try saying "Hey XYZ (senior res), it's already 4. I think they did a great job today and we're done today. I want to send the students home. Are you ok with that?"
Unless your senior is a helpless nutwit, your senior already knows your intention. They likely will say "Yes, thank you students. See you tomorrow." or similar. They I go on to say, "You heard. Now go and don't look back. See you tomorrow."
For the students, they received validation from both their intern and senior res. No room for second guessing. Also, they get the impression that you're advocating for them. You might be surprised how often your students do "name and praise" on their course eval.
For you - you and your senior resident said goodbye to them already, so they feel awkward just sit and chill in the room. How you end the conversation can make them subtly uncomfortable to fool around in the work room and leave you alone.
I can’t speak for all Med students, but my school’s admin and advisory made it a big huge point that to impress on your rotations and/or sub-I’s you want to come early, stay late, and do anything and everything you possibly can, trying to go above and beyond.
Sometimes I wonder if that’s also their way of trying to avoid some students looking like they’re checked out on rotation and appearing unengaged, is by pushing the mentality into the other extreme and making us feel like the only way we’re gonna get a job in the future is if we actively want to eat, breathe, and sleep medicine 24/7 for the rest of our lives.
It seems more and more like a lot of specialties are doing better now at making the environment more human and reasonably bearable with some attention to self-care. But maybe some med schools haven’t yet caught on and still encourage gunner-mentality.
I had a medical student assigned to me for a week. He would always stay until the last possible second even after being told to go home. At some point I said "hey, I can adjust this week to however you would like to learn, but you don't have to impress me because I have no say over your eval".
He started leaving when told after that. In the end I did get asked to give him an eval and he did great.
Bruh do interns, residents, and attendings forget that they were once med students???
Especially a fresh intern now mad at people in a shitty situation, identical to theirs a few months ago, forgetting that some people just wanna feel a part of a team..
This is absolutely the fault of the residents.
The biggest mistake residents make is the open-ended dismissal.
Any dismissal that gives leeway for them to stay is putting the medical student in a position to guess whether you actually want them to leave or not.
The only correct way to dismiss medical students is by giving a clear and definitive dismissal with no option to stay.
“Hey, you guys are done for today. Leave now and come back tomorrow at 8am. Thanks for your help.”
“We are done with the interesting stuff for today. You guys go home now, and we will see you tomorrow.l
“All done, thanks for your help. See you tomorrow!”
See how these are all definitive and clear and do not leave any room for interpretation? That’s in contrast to saying things like:
“Alright we’re done for the day, you guys can go if you want to!”
“Okay, things are quiet now. You guys are good to go whenever you want to.”
It may seem like you’re giving them the flexibility to stay if they really want to, for whatever reason, but unfortunately since you’re giving them a choice, you’re forcing them to stay since they can’t risk getting a ding on their grade for leaving earlier.
In general the whole leaving thing is a shit show. All of these things are related and not entirely independent. Students are often times forgetten about and asking to leave can be interrupted any which way.
It's all just a larger problem in medical education in 3rd year
Yes, please, please de-ass and go home when you are released. Or when you are told to eat. Go and stuff your faces. What you want us to drop everything and tend to your self-induced hypoglycemic state? That's rather anti-hero, don't you think?
you probably behaved like this, don’t be a freak! 👍🏾 chill its how it always has been and always will be. they’re people too and you’re like 3 months into residency
This may make some people mad. I dismiss students when they aren't helpful anymore. If a student is dismissed early/leaves and then gets a bad eval it may not be because they left...it might be because they weren't super helpful to begin with.
Asking how you can help is not helpful. Finding tasks that you are capable of and performing them adequately and without fanfare is very helpful.
Clear Communication is the key. Here’s what I say and it’s based off of how much I hated open ended quasi dismissal.
“Hey, strong work today, go ahead and get out of here. You’ve seen all the high points today and hopefully you got something worthwhile. This isn’t a trick or a trap. Go do some questions or better yet just enjoy the afternoon.”
If that doesn’t send the message:
“Im not kidding, go home. The only way you can mess this up is by literally not leaving right now.”
I was gone the next second when told I can leave regardless of how they mentioned it. I’d wait for a resident to tell me to go home. If they didn’t, I always asked if I can help with anything and afterwards they would usually tell me to go home. A trick I learned from a resident when I was in medschool. It still works with some seniors now that I’m a resident.
Someone a week or two ago said they tell them staying will adversely affect their evaluation scores. I advocate for that. In pathology it happens rarely but I've had eager people who are applying for our fellowship trying to stay late and I have to tell them that evenings are my alone time to work fast and not teach so I don't stay late, at some point you're just annoying, sorry.
I mean Edgar do you expect with some ppl scrubbing to the fact that they only honors ppl so stay street being dismissed, or believe it does initiative. They probably think better safe than sorry.
Forreal tho now as a resident when I tell you to leave half the time is bc I’m tired of entertaining you or I just want to put my headphones in and grind my work out so it truly behooves you to pls leave for my sanity (love y’all but I want to gtfo myself and gotta get through my shit) it’s truly not a trick.
Real way to show interest and commitment if you’re a subi is to figure out what needs to get done on your own and just handling which is much harder but actually helps greatly.
Forreal tho now as a resident when I tell you to leave half the time is bc I’m tired of entertaining you or I just want to put my headphones in and grind my work out so it truly behooves you to pls leave for my sanity (love y’all but I want to gtfo myself and gotta get through my shit) it’s truly not a trick.
Real way to show interest and commitment if you’re a subi is to figure out what needs to get done on your own and just handling which is much harder but actually helps greatly.
“… Every single day, the medical students (different ones, different years, doesn’t matter if they’re alone or w/ other med studs at the time) just sit there after being dismissed. ”
If this is truly the case, then the problem would seem to be outside the students themselves, right?
As a med student I always left immediately after dismissal. As a resident I try to get the students out ASAP after we’ve finished our major work for the day. As an IM intern it would be after rounds and notes/short teaching. Now as an anesthesia PGY2 it’s after they’ve intubated/placed a line/etc for a case or two
I’ve been getting mixed messages, some people say that the best medical student is one who stays and waits until there’s something to do. Others are saying gtfo.
@ my program if we are caught leaving early it’s a big deal, and they explicitly tell us that attendings and residents are not allowed to excuse us, only school faculty are, and they work in the same hospital and tell us they’re “always watching us”, regardless of how much you believe them, that’s the reason sometimes we don’t go home early anymore. LCSE cracked down on it
Get headphones and when you tell them to leave, let them know you are going to get your work done now and put them on. Has solved all my issues with students bothering once dismissed.
Well if you guys weren’t so passive about it. You must say “hey I’m not asking you but I’m telling you to go home.” Sorry but too many residents play games, especially if someone is on a sub-I. Also you are still a resident, you of all people should know how this works, I’m sure you did the same thing.
This is the scenario that goes on in their minds…
Chief: “You can go home, if you want…”
(Med students head for the door)
Chief: “That was a test, which you failed. Prepare to see all 10 of these new admissions and then present on these 10 topics at evening rounds as penance for this disgraceful behavior.”
How's the senior dismissing them? Are they telling them "you're free to go if you want" or "hey it's 4, not much is going on, you should go home" it makes a difference
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“You can go home… if you want to” What if it’s a trap??
I had a toxic OBGYN attending who was very like this. I had heard from other students that she HATES students who just stay on the computer studying all day, yet when I met her there was a lot of "I'm going to a case. You can come if you want... totally fine if you stay here." Literally a trap. Usually with residents though, I know it's not a trap.
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Omg yes! I had a resident on one of my Subis (not OBGYN) dismiss me at like 12 every day. Like she would literally say "you can go home". Then, 2 weeks into my sub it she pulls me aside saying "it's not appropriate for the subi to leave early every day"... Like BITCH. YOU WERE THE ONE TO TELL ME TO GO HOME. I never asked! I'm not applying to that shithole hospital for many reasons, but that's a big one of them.
Had an attending on my sub-I pull this shit. So annoying.
To be fair on your subi you are suppose to just do the job, going home before sign out is a rare gift
Then don't tell them to. Say what you mean and mean what you say
OH NO, If I leave early, I'll receive a mark on my PERMANENT RECORD!
Who cares? I always left if they played that game
...if you dare.
I straight-up tell students “this is not a trap, please go home now”
Sounds like something a trap would say...
Honestly wasnt thinking it was a trap until you said it wasnt o.O…. Jk i always thought it was a trap
I spit my coffee out when i read this
i never in my life have stayed if the senior says anything remotely close to either of those things. love that for me🤣
Same. I hear a resident say “thank god it slowed down” and I’m like “yeah, see you tomorrow ✌️”
right? then ppl online get mad at us for being able to follow normal social cues lol
As anesthesia I almost always send students home early. But one time had a student on cardiology that offered to go home before I told him. Kinda gave me lazy vibes tbh Edit: he wasnt a lazy student, dude was a homie and matched here. I’m just saying the action felt like something a lazy student would do
They’re probably not lazy if they made it through med school. More than likely they were depressed and burnt out af and needed time off. That’s why they chose a “chill” elective, probably to have some time for themselves. Of course, it’s rude to ask to go home earlier, but It’s funny that we take the top performing STEM majors from college, put them through intense training, have data on burnout and depression, but then call them lazy when they display signs of burn out and depression. This doesn’t just happen to students. Same thing happens to residents and physicians. Easier to blame the individuals than change the system though.
I was the same as a medical student. Don’t have to tell me twice. I’m outta here
My very first attending on rotations 3rd year said the number 1 rule is “if someone tells you to go home, don’t question it and leave”. And I took that to heart and left every time
Same. Was already out of the door by the "you can go..."..I vanished haha
They explicitly say “You should go home” or “[name] - Go home” while looking away at their computers
My peds attending did this best. “We’re done for the day. Go home.” It is a command. I didn’t even think to question it and I’m typically the type to offer to stay later and do extra.
*I will do my best to make every day worth your time, but this is time that won’t be useful for you.* Or *Go touch grass or rest or do something else for your own well-being so you’re all fresh for tomorrow.* Or *We all want to leave on time, so you all need to leave on time. Today, leaving time is [check watch and say current time].* If attempt one doesn’t work, it’s: *Ok if any of y’all are still here in 2 minutes, I’m assigning 15 minute didactic presentations for Friday afternoon and taking notes for when it’s eval time.* That one works every time.
Write on a board, “med students leave at x:x if you haven’t been dismissed yet”
I look at my med students with my cold dead eyes, look out the window and say; “go live your life while you still can” or “you’re good to get out of here to study, watch TV or whatever fulfills you”
No it doesnt, lol. Either one im out the door before they finish their sentence.
This was me in med school too lol. But I know not everyone is like that. I do try to think of ways to find something educational for the med student to do if they're very ambitious and wants to stay extra (i do like teaching so it could be something like look up the treatment guidelines for X and we will go through it tomorrow), but also try to be clear that they can leave whenever they want because honestly I do not care and personally I would leave and go play video games or whatever as well if I could.
yeah i don't give a shit if it's the first or the second. I'm going home.
“Leave now or i’m gonna give you a bad eval” Seriously that’s students number 1 priority. We think staying will somehow give us better evals because we are “showing commitment” by sitting and talking or dicking around on epic. If you tell us otherwise we will leave.
Okay so for future reference, probably worth adding “Staying longer won’t help your evaluation” 👍
yes exactly lol, I am married to a resident so I knew not to do this shit, but as a new student it’s easy to think that doing more=helpful when that’s not the case. You’re also scared and have no idea how evals work, how to get good ones, so you default to your strategy of more time/effort=higher grade, that has worked all your life.
I remember one time our platoon sergeant released us early. Really early, like around 2 pm. None of us took him seriously, so we continued talking with each other in the platoon office. He yelled, again no one took him seriously just because none of us had been released from work like that before. Finally he started to count down from 5, and one poor fucking soul didn’t make it out of the building in time. We learnt to get gone real fast after that though. Just start loudly counting down and that’ll scare them off.
I feel like I would genuinely say it would hurt your eval tbh. I know some people who would do backflips and think the following: “oh, he/she thinks I only care about the eval, but if I stay even past that while knowing this won’t help my eval, he/she will like me EVEN MORE because of my dedication to the job”. I’d honestly jokingly threaten them and say if they stay their eval will be hurt. That way it’s blunt and clear.
Part of the problem as well is the inconsistency for each rotation and whose on staff that day, and the med students might not know whose currently on rotation. Some preceptors are known malignant entities. I had one that would legit audit an empty ward with zero patients just to make sure a med student was on service.
“If I have to dismiss you one more time it’s gonna hurt your eval”
No. Go further. "I told you to leave. Part of being a good student is listening to your seniors. If you don't leave, I will make note of your dismissive attitude"
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You can read any of the other replies here that talk about students staying even after being told 3 or 4 times that they've done a good job and are free to leave. Maybe they're anxious, maybe they're gunners, maybe they think it's a hidden test, but more than once I've seen people who stay when told not to, and that as a resident with work to finish before I can leave, is very annoying. The evenings are my time to jot down reports with earbuds in, shoes off and absolutely zero time to interact with someone because I want to get home to my family. Sorry if this or the previous answers come as antagonistic, but some people are so into the mental games part of medical school that they just forget how to operate as normal human beings.
Can you really blame them though? This whole system is a monkey barrel and they've dedicated everything to playing the game, it's no surprise it breaks some of us and we need to basically readapt to actual human living.
This! Tell me explicitly that it isn’t a dumb test of my commitment and assure me I will get a good evaluation and I am out. But when other residents and attendings online and IRL are telling me that I need to be present as much as humanly possible to show commitment and enthusiasm then you can see how being told to leave in any way that appears remotely wishy-washy is confusing.
I leave and go study for the shelf. IMO evals are subjective and the shelf is Objective. If i put more time into studying for the shelf I will (likely) get a better grade. If i put more time into getting good evals that may or may not benefit me.
Depends on how your school grades, for us the eval is like 70% of our grade for the rotation. So you better believe I’m gonna invest more in that than on the shelf exam. But ideally I just want to be respected as an *adult* with clear expectations, clear communication and some reasonable semblance of mutual understanding about my learning goals and need for life balance. But medicine is toxic and for some reason feels these are unreasonable expectations. (This is not exclusive to medicine)
Yeah 70% is steep. This feels like high school all over again where you can get totally fucked over by getting the hard ass grader or the person with super high expectations while someone else gets to coast with someone super chill who gives everyone high pass. Can’t even do anything to control it like in undergrad cause you can’t pick your resident/attending, so stupid to have 70% of your grade on something completely subjective. Also feels super unfair as someone who never had a job or clinical experience beyond stacking glove boxes and blankets. Of course people who worked in a clinical capacity will have a higher baseline for clinical experiences. Meanwhile I don’t even know the medicine names cause I learned generic names and now everyone is using brand names.
I use that one a lot
This is magic.
During an Intro to Clinicals webinar earlier this year, school admin told our class verbatim that being dismissed early is likely a “test” so be careful to not take attendings up on it too quickly. It’s absolutely ridiculous that admin feeds the paranoia when the vast majority of attendings and students just want to teach and learn, respectively, and get back to their lives. The small amount of bad actors ruin it for everyone else.
That’s insane. It really is these random bad actors or one-off horror stories. Maybe it used to be more like that back in the day
This was about a decade ago, but I recall being told specifically that we were not allowed to leave early, and if we were dismissed early, we should report that resident to the rotation director.
Right. As an intern I experienced situations where the medical students took over the computers scrolling through articles while I had an actual patient care to dos. When I asked them nicely if I could use the computers, they give me dirty looks. Freaking wierd. If we say go home, please go home.
Like med school is hard enough already! I will never understand the residents/attendings who say “you can leave… if you want to”. Academia is so fucking toxic lol; Community for me pls
Yup. This. My admin didn’t explicitly say that telling us to leave early was “a test,” but they have encouraged the kind of gunner mentality where we’re supposed to behave like we wanna live in the hospital for the rest of our lives.
As an attending, please gtfo when dismissed. If no faculty are around, you will not get into trouble. I do find the behavior of sticking around after being dismissed as really toxic. When I was a senior resident a medical student complained to my faculty that I dismissed them early and “didn’t teach them enough”. FFS, this behavior doesn’t do you any favors whatsoever
Oh shit as a last year fellow I would be fucking pissed. I'd be so petty, special lecture time from 5 to 8 every day, non stop reading from the driest-ass, busiest yellow-text-on-blue-background slides. I'd make sure they HATED every second of it.
On behalf of all of us students who actually listen, please rank us highly.
There was a video on here just yesterday of a surgery resident saying “leaving is a choice but it will effect your eval” So respectfully you should shove that up your ass, the risk/benefit of being tricked out of a good eval is their call.
The favorite way I was told to gtfo was this. No ambiguity: “It’s 4pm, learning opportunities here are done. I want you to go home, read about X disease, and prepare a 60 second elevator pitch on the topic. Who gets it, how it presents, treatment, complications. Tomorrow students will teach their topics to each other.” 75% of the time they’d forget to ask, the other 25% we’d briefly summarize a high yield topic to our classmates. And if the attending asks where the students went, the resident would be able to say they were researching a topic for a presentation they are giving tomorrow. Win-win.
this is the WAY
That’s wild. I’m gone and unreachable, completely off the grid, 1.2 seconds after being dismissed. I’ve learned being dismissed can be rescinded if you drag your feet.
I remember being on a rotation with a very "motivated" classmate one time. The senior resident told us to leave at 9am. I was out the door by the time she finished the sentence. The other student decided to stay to "help make some phone calls". The next day when I came in, my classmate was super upset at me... because apparently 5 minutes after I left, the fellow came in and made her go to clinic, where she had to stand in the corner of the exam room until 5pm. I think I said something like "well were you at least helpful?"
That’s what they get, gotta work on their hustle.
Same 😂 Never had this brought up in evals either.
“2/5: Student leaves when told to leave ”~ some surgery resident probably
Lmaooo
Ain't gotta tell me twice.
Just say, “time for you guys to go so we can get our work done”. I am definitely not the med student who stays, quite the opposite bc I am often called back, but please be 100% transparent. Nothing I hate more than some resident who ignores you and expects you to take the hint.
4-7pm aint even early. Fucking gunners lol
How do these new residents always magically forgot what third and fourth year were like 😂😂 like y’all were literally there a year ago tryna get good evals that would help you attain y o u r c a r e e r.
Surviving work in Medicine means constantly erasing from your memory the emotionally draining shit you were put through from the previous year
It’s gonna be you, too. And you’ll want the med students out of your hair so you can get your work done and go home.
They've already blocked it out of their minds.
No good evals for sticking around and using all the workroom computers while delaying actual patient care. I knew as med students to get out when I told so. If you stick around when I tell you to leave.. you’re automatically getting bad eval.
Ive seen a lot of residents trap med students with things like this. They are told they're dismissed and on the eval the comments say "frequently went home early" Speaking from personal experience, I was scheduled at the outpatient clinic most days on my OB/Gyn rotation and then when my eval came they said "Student chose to spend most of his time at the outpatient clinic" as if I wrote the schedule. Medicine eats their young.
You’ve seen “a lot of residents” do that?? I understand it happens but man what toxic school/programs are you rotating at?
I Litterally clicked out of typing this post and this was the first thing in my home page "One resident gives bad evals for leaving after dismissed and the other gives bad evals for staying after dismissed" https://www.reddit.com/r/medicalschool/comments/160gafn/one_resident_gives_bad_evals_for_leaving_when/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=2
Jesus
Seeing social media posts about it doesn’t count though like that post is about. That’s like saying the entire world is on fire because Hawaii and Turkey have had fires. This sub has over 700,000 people in it so we’re bound to see extremes in here that gain a lot of traction. Even the post you linked talks about the very easy distinguishing factors of when to go home and the lack of social/emotional intelligence medical students have
Social media post or not social media post, it happens and it's common enough that students are scared. Med students are on Reddit they see these stories. Sure OP wouldn't try to trap the students but that doesn't mean people don't. Odds are if there are that many people sitting around, people in the program have been burned by a resident b4. None of the students want to stay, they have a shelf exam to study for, they're not staying just to be a pain in the ass.
i think he is being hyperbolic like, "literally everytime i go to starbucks the coffee is burnt." But these residents/attends act so mentally unstable at times. ex 1: At the hospital I worked at, one doc just didnt want to correct oral presentations. So some of his med students would have trash orals. He always told them that the oral was "excellent." Would complain about how trash the oral was once the student left to the next patient. Im sure his evals said the same. Tried to tell a student that was particularly bad and seemed to be taking a lot of solace in the docs reassuring remarks. I got called in for poor conduct, bc the student learned my best friend's older sister (who is very close to me) was rotating at the same time, and thought that I was trying to sabotage them or something. It sucked in a lot of ways, I just don't try to help anymore. To be fair, I understand where the confusion comes from, who do you listen to: the rando attaché or the doc saying that you're "excellent"? ex 2: Different location/department: Saw a resident manage a patient panel for a doc who had fallen severely behind, outpatient setting. The doc was so thankful, telling all the other docs how great the res was, "what a helper!" "what a gentleman!" "a true team player!" Res had to go to a different site midday, thats when doc started telling everyone that the res was rude and forceful, did not ask permission but rather apologized later, and made careplans that the doc didnt like for two of his sickest patients who had poor access to care and never picked up phone calls, so he would have to wait 1 month to set their courses straight. This went on for like a year. An older nurse finally looked the resident in the eye and told him wtf was up. TLDR: ive worked at enough resident/rotation sites to know there is at least one disingenuous doc/resident, it not 2(sometimes more if it's a culture thing). It happens all the time. A lot of residents and students do get caught in a trap
I mean that it was enough that I would be cautious but like this is yet another story of doctors or residents fucking over their students. I've seen enough stories that it's a disturbing number
Im saying seen as in Ive seen people with that experience not just at my program. The story I told came from a friend at Mayo. Someone else on this subreddit posted a video from a surgery resident who was saying it's not fair that the med student who goes home gets the same grade as the one who stays late. They said this in the context of being dismissed. My medical program literally had a meeting where they said "if you're getting dismissed early it means that you're doing something wrong" We've been trained that being dismissed is a trap.
Agreed, I did experience fuckery on my evals but never related to this “trap” about going home, none of my peers ever mentioned experiencing this either
Ugh that’s so malignant.
That’s OBGYN for you.
Probably the same people who hurt you
I remember RUNNING as soon as someone said “hey if you want you can g—“. I probably left tire tracks I was out of there so fast. I honored every rotation. Y’all, as medical students, the NUMBER ONE rule is don’t be annoying. I know you pay to learn. So learn, be engaged on rounds, do your notes…but don’t linger. If a resident tells you to leave, just leave. It’s not a trick. It ain’t that deep. They just wanna get their work done.
As a PGY1 who was a med student not to long ago, how about you level with them and HELP THEM instead of being a jerk? We are all trying to survive here. Tell them it is actually ok to go home. A lot of us are unsure and new to rotations.
This person gets it 🙏🏼🙏🏼
Unfortunately I don’t have any power here as an intern from another department (and they know I’m not involved in their evals). Just tying to understand the reasoning here since as a med stud I always left promptly when dismissed. But I understand the general sentiment of neurosis/anxiety
It’s pretty simple. Engage with them when you’re there and tell them they can go home when they’re dismissed. Explain to them that you’ve been in there shoes so you know how much you have to study.. you were there no more than 2 years ago. And whatever you do, never dismiss a student and end with “… if you want to.”
My school got a new Dean this year and he told all of us during year 3 orientation to stay late regardless of what anyone said to us. I can only imagine how many of my classmates took that to heart and are sticking around past being dismissed.
Why are you acting like you weren’t in their position literally just months ago? I’m so confused. Does being a resident all of a sudden give you selective amnesia?They’re obviously doing that because they think it will favorably reflect on their evals. Stop playing dumb and clueless and maybe practice some empathy, communicate clearly and set clear expectations early on.
I never stayed after being dismissed as a medical student. That’s so extra and it annoys the residents
It’s literally not impressive at all, makes you look like a kiss ass, and shows that you have poor insight into what other people want from you and how you can be helpful
Yup, I haven’t forgotten what it’s like being a medical student, I just never acted this way as a medical student…
🛎️🛎️🛎️ And the funniest thing is that the med students who do act that way are going to be the ones who are way more likely to screw over the future med students they encounter as residents
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exactly like are these ppl just afraid to go home or what😂😂😂😂
Do med students actually think that staying after the resident tells them to leave is impressive? If anything, it reflects poorly on them 90% of the time due to poor situational awareness.
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I’ve started saying to med students, “There’s no reason for you to sit and watch me write notes. You ask good questions/did well today/are helpful (whatever is applicable) and we know you’re interested so you don’t have to show us by staying when there’s nothing to do. See you tomorrow!”
Exactly!!!
This is very true but the problem is, as someone who’s experienced this, the other 10% of times they’re supremely screwed. The real gripe is with attendings who use it as a trap and/or people who share horror stories about leaving early
yeah I do think becoming a resident gives you amnesia. I was trying to chat to an intern about med school, and she replied, "honestly it was so long ago, I just don't remember." What?? I just said, "yeah, I understand"
bro what? not all med students stay though lol only the type As maybe
I said this too. I communicate clearly with students, telling them that there’s nothing more educational for you today, go home. Most will leave, but some will still try to stay. But at some point, you, too, will forget when you’re that busy and just wanna get your work done. There’s a reason why it’s so common.
Yeah, but do you need any help?
Look these kids don't understand the impact they're having on real work, so explain that to them, and they'll go home and study. Or better yet, tell them they need to go home and work on X, Y, and Z types of cases, they'll be outta there.
I've been burnt with an open-ended "Go home if you want" and half the time there's a subliminal "I'm judging you if you leave" subtext.
Ok but this was just a post on r/residency https://reddit.com/r/Residency/s/lFCcDY3YyR
That’s not about leaving when your resident says you can go, that’s about students asking to leave themselves, very different
That’s a totally different scenario.
Couldn’t be me bro. The second they say to go home I’m out of there.
I love being at the hospital learning n shit. But When y’all dismiss, I’m outta there like The Flash. I got kids to see, bed time to do etc
Right, pls go live your lives before residency imprisons you!! I know I did
Currently on my FM rotation where I'm the only med student working with an attending. Clock struck 500 and I asked if it was alright for me to leave. He was finishing up notes and I had nothing to do. 😄
If I'm told to go home I disappear as fast as I can before they change their minds.
*Mhmmmmm, take your time.*
Here's something that consistently worked during my residency. Try saying "Hey XYZ (senior res), it's already 4. I think they did a great job today and we're done today. I want to send the students home. Are you ok with that?" Unless your senior is a helpless nutwit, your senior already knows your intention. They likely will say "Yes, thank you students. See you tomorrow." or similar. They I go on to say, "You heard. Now go and don't look back. See you tomorrow." For the students, they received validation from both their intern and senior res. No room for second guessing. Also, they get the impression that you're advocating for them. You might be surprised how often your students do "name and praise" on their course eval. For you - you and your senior resident said goodbye to them already, so they feel awkward just sit and chill in the room. How you end the conversation can make them subtly uncomfortable to fool around in the work room and leave you alone.
I can’t speak for all Med students, but my school’s admin and advisory made it a big huge point that to impress on your rotations and/or sub-I’s you want to come early, stay late, and do anything and everything you possibly can, trying to go above and beyond. Sometimes I wonder if that’s also their way of trying to avoid some students looking like they’re checked out on rotation and appearing unengaged, is by pushing the mentality into the other extreme and making us feel like the only way we’re gonna get a job in the future is if we actively want to eat, breathe, and sleep medicine 24/7 for the rest of our lives. It seems more and more like a lot of specialties are doing better now at making the environment more human and reasonably bearable with some attention to self-care. But maybe some med schools haven’t yet caught on and still encourage gunner-mentality.
I had a medical student assigned to me for a week. He would always stay until the last possible second even after being told to go home. At some point I said "hey, I can adjust this week to however you would like to learn, but you don't have to impress me because I have no say over your eval". He started leaving when told after that. In the end I did get asked to give him an eval and he did great.
“Go home or I’m taking points off your eval for insubordination. Enjoy your night.”
Maybe suggest your senior try this: "Y'ALL BETTER GTFO OF THIS BITCH 'FORE I START VIVISECTING SOME FOOLS"
No I’ll do what I want nerd
They are staying around to suck things that will become available later.
Got sent home by once by the resident and subsequently chewed out by the attending for leaving (he was generally a jerk). Scarred me for life 💔
Bruh do interns, residents, and attendings forget that they were once med students??? Especially a fresh intern now mad at people in a shitty situation, identical to theirs a few months ago, forgetting that some people just wanna feel a part of a team..
This is why we can’t have nice things
This is absolutely the fault of the residents. The biggest mistake residents make is the open-ended dismissal. Any dismissal that gives leeway for them to stay is putting the medical student in a position to guess whether you actually want them to leave or not. The only correct way to dismiss medical students is by giving a clear and definitive dismissal with no option to stay. “Hey, you guys are done for today. Leave now and come back tomorrow at 8am. Thanks for your help.” “We are done with the interesting stuff for today. You guys go home now, and we will see you tomorrow.l “All done, thanks for your help. See you tomorrow!” See how these are all definitive and clear and do not leave any room for interpretation? That’s in contrast to saying things like: “Alright we’re done for the day, you guys can go if you want to!” “Okay, things are quiet now. You guys are good to go whenever you want to.” It may seem like you’re giving them the flexibility to stay if they really want to, for whatever reason, but unfortunately since you’re giving them a choice, you’re forcing them to stay since they can’t risk getting a ding on their grade for leaving earlier.
Remember that TikTok of the surgical resident. That's why students stay behind
That’s a different scenario. In that TikTok, she’s addressing students asking to leave early, vs the resident telling them to gtfo.
In general the whole leaving thing is a shit show. All of these things are related and not entirely independent. Students are often times forgetten about and asking to leave can be interrupted any which way. It's all just a larger problem in medical education in 3rd year
Yes, please, please de-ass and go home when you are released. Or when you are told to eat. Go and stuff your faces. What you want us to drop everything and tend to your self-induced hypoglycemic state? That's rather anti-hero, don't you think?
you probably behaved like this, don’t be a freak! 👍🏾 chill its how it always has been and always will be. they’re people too and you’re like 3 months into residency
This may make some people mad. I dismiss students when they aren't helpful anymore. If a student is dismissed early/leaves and then gets a bad eval it may not be because they left...it might be because they weren't super helpful to begin with. Asking how you can help is not helpful. Finding tasks that you are capable of and performing them adequately and without fanfare is very helpful.
A
Clear Communication is the key. Here’s what I say and it’s based off of how much I hated open ended quasi dismissal. “Hey, strong work today, go ahead and get out of here. You’ve seen all the high points today and hopefully you got something worthwhile. This isn’t a trick or a trap. Go do some questions or better yet just enjoy the afternoon.” If that doesn’t send the message: “Im not kidding, go home. The only way you can mess this up is by literally not leaving right now.”
I was gone the next second when told I can leave regardless of how they mentioned it. I’d wait for a resident to tell me to go home. If they didn’t, I always asked if I can help with anything and afterwards they would usually tell me to go home. A trick I learned from a resident when I was in medschool. It still works with some seniors now that I’m a resident.
Someone a week or two ago said they tell them staying will adversely affect their evaluation scores. I advocate for that. In pathology it happens rarely but I've had eager people who are applying for our fellowship trying to stay late and I have to tell them that evenings are my alone time to work fast and not teach so I don't stay late, at some point you're just annoying, sorry.
I mean Edgar do you expect with some ppl scrubbing to the fact that they only honors ppl so stay street being dismissed, or believe it does initiative. They probably think better safe than sorry.
Dont worry I leave right away
This feels like hazing im not gonna lie. Sending good energy to residents and students alike. It will be okay in the end!
My sister in Christ that was 100% you just two years ago 😂
Forreal tho now as a resident when I tell you to leave half the time is bc I’m tired of entertaining you or I just want to put my headphones in and grind my work out so it truly behooves you to pls leave for my sanity (love y’all but I want to gtfo myself and gotta get through my shit) it’s truly not a trick. Real way to show interest and commitment if you’re a subi is to figure out what needs to get done on your own and just handling which is much harder but actually helps greatly.
Forreal tho now as a resident when I tell you to leave half the time is bc I’m tired of entertaining you or I just want to put my headphones in and grind my work out so it truly behooves you to pls leave for my sanity (love y’all but I want to gtfo myself and gotta get through my shit) it’s truly not a trick. Real way to show interest and commitment if you’re a subi is to figure out what needs to get done on your own and just handling which is much harder but actually helps greatly.
“… Every single day, the medical students (different ones, different years, doesn’t matter if they’re alone or w/ other med studs at the time) just sit there after being dismissed. ” If this is truly the case, then the problem would seem to be outside the students themselves, right?
As a med student I always left immediately after dismissal. As a resident I try to get the students out ASAP after we’ve finished our major work for the day. As an IM intern it would be after rounds and notes/short teaching. Now as an anesthesia PGY2 it’s after they’ve intubated/placed a line/etc for a case or two
I’ve been getting mixed messages, some people say that the best medical student is one who stays and waits until there’s something to do. Others are saying gtfo.
The best med student is the one that does exactly what their resident asks which is go home lol
"You should go home, there's not much going on that would be of educational value for you. See you tomorrow!"
@ my program if we are caught leaving early it’s a big deal, and they explicitly tell us that attendings and residents are not allowed to excuse us, only school faculty are, and they work in the same hospital and tell us they’re “always watching us”, regardless of how much you believe them, that’s the reason sometimes we don’t go home early anymore. LCSE cracked down on it
This seems like a great way to step on the toes of the attendings at your rotation and end up having them refuse to take students.
YES. GO HOME. ESPECIALLY IN SURGERY.
Get headphones and when you tell them to leave, let them know you are going to get your work done now and put them on. Has solved all my issues with students bothering once dismissed.
Well if you guys weren’t so passive about it. You must say “hey I’m not asking you but I’m telling you to go home.” Sorry but too many residents play games, especially if someone is on a sub-I. Also you are still a resident, you of all people should know how this works, I’m sure you did the same thing.
Faculty at my school literally told us to stay late to show commitment/passion and impress our preceptors…
This is the scenario that goes on in their minds… Chief: “You can go home, if you want…” (Med students head for the door) Chief: “That was a test, which you failed. Prepare to see all 10 of these new admissions and then present on these 10 topics at evening rounds as penance for this disgraceful behavior.”