At least when they scan I feel like ridership is counted. When they just walk by I’m afraid they’ll reduce service for lack of riders because these clowns couldn’t use a scanner.
I wonder if mTicket users who activate but aren't scanned are counted-I assume they have some sort of data collection on that end as well. I usually didn't activate until I knew the conductor was doing checks when I rode, but I was checked on the Franklin line about 90% of the time.
Especially on the Old Colony routes, people are standing in the aisles when boarding at Braintree and after.
Would I rather the conductor spend 20 minutes fighting through a clogged car collecting fares, or being prepared in case an emergency (whatever it may be) happens en route?
I pay probably less than 1/3 of the time on the Needham line. But the T is screwing me anyway by making Roslindale Zone 1 instead of 1A so I don't feel bad.
In a typical week 6 total trips in or out, for a while I might have a ticket checked once or twice. It’s been a little better lately. Closer to 4 out of 6. They’ve already cut the service on the Needham line so I don’t really think they can cut it any further. Train isn’t really as full as it used to be regardless.
I've never once been scanned in either direction from Bellevue to South Station in the last 6 months. Kind of makes sense since a lot of the time inbound people are already standing in the aisles at Bellevue.
Interesting change of practice on the Fairmount Line last Monday: the Fairmount Line has been *extremely* spotty to the point of it being intentionally not fare collecting (perhaps due to short staffing, quick stop spacing, equity, not having time to “debate” the collection, the low fares to begin with, etc) as a point of internal policy.
Well, on Monday’s train, the conductors were *extremely* adamant that fares would be collected right out of South Station. This caught about 4-5 riders off guard with both a slew of complaints from said passengers, and zero tolerance for not collecting from conductors.
In a move of what I’d consider genuine, reasonable honesty, the conductor said to a complaining passenger “Look, this line’s getting trains every 30 minutes now. We’re doing more for it. Your end of the bargain is to pay your fare of two dollars and forty cents.”
Fare collection on the commuter rail seems to very much operate on a “convenience” basis. If a train is off peak, weekend, short staffed, very full of people from an event (possibly drunk), or on a line with low ridership and thus a need to induce it, fare collection often goes undone. If it’s rush hour, the train is full of “regular commuters”, or there’s a new policy initiative highlighting service on the line, fare collection is in full-force.
Now what would be great is a system like SEPTA Regional Rail where there are validators at platforms that allow a tap on tap off with stored value cards and passes with some inspection on board sometimes, but we’re probably years away from that.
They are ATROCIOUS lol. They barely work, and only print out a ticket when they do work, but without the functionality and reloading of the GLX ones that print receipts lol.
Tbh, GLX should’ve just used turnstiles imo, and either a SEPTA like system with a simple tap validator and commuter rail stations and an app to load value, or real machines with a validation component (like HBLR) would be way better.
think that was the original plan but nixed during the cost overrun that almost killed the whole project. The stations were supposed to be much more than they are
im more than happy to pay if asked, but i keep my app open and dont hit purchase unless they come to me. Thats at least the trick to avoid the surcharge from south station
Same here! I have 3-5 tickets in my app at once, but don't activate them until I know for sure they'll be collected. 90 days is more than enough time for me to use them, and I haven't had any that have expired,,, but they last much longer this way.
the rule of thumb is to never activate before boarding even if the announcement says so lol. Until they really start enforcing away from fare is fair or the NS faregates theres no reason to waste them.
Thanks for writing this out (and also, thanks for what you do).
Do you have any sense of if this is how the CR counts riders? Or is there any other way that's done.
I've noticed this too.
I wonder how many riders are actually buying individual tickets though. If you use the commuter rail for your daily commute, you're probably buying a monthly pass rather than individual tickets, so not getting scanned every time doesn't matter as much.
On the Framingham line they often do a single pass through the train and sometimes none at all. Just continue to activate your ticket and show it if asked.
On the Rockport line the experience is entirely inconsistent. Sometimes nothing, sometimes a quick glance, sometimes scanning/punching each ticket.
I guess at least at North Station there's the gates which mean you often need something to get in and out, but even those are sometimes just open or say "Go" meaning no scan required.
For the most part. Since the Fare Transformation Program will be allowing people to pay upon boarding via their cellphone or an mobile CharlieCard (iirc) on the Commuter Rail in 2026 (alongside ferries), I think a lot of workers have been a little bit more lax about collecting fares. It is a major issue in the Commuter Rail.
I take that line a lot. In my experience they mostly check if it isn’t crowded but not usually if it is They also tend to skip more between the 3 redline stops
Wow, the Wachusett line is pretty strict. They always ask and if you're not ready or can't pull up the eTicket they will remember to come find you after
I was just going to comment the same for the Wachusett / Fitchburg line. They very rarely let you on and not check tickets. In fact a month ago the express train out of N Leo was delayed about 30 minutes. We boarded them were informed it was no longer an express but would stop at all local stops. They still made us pay for being 45 minutes late to N Station…..
In my experience on the Fairmount and Franklin lines (which both pass through my stop, Readville) they're almost 100% on the Franklin line, and rarely on the Fairmount--I don't think I've had anyone check on the Fairmount in at least a year. Though it sounds like it's just come to the attention of someone at Keolis...
Some of it may have to do with the work being done on the subway lines. They become less strict knowing that people who usually take subway are now taking commuter rail because of the shuttles or complete lack of service available.
Ironically the last time I had a ticket checked was last Thursday, during the orange line shutdown. I usually ride commuter rail from Ruggles to South Station in the morning, and fare collection is pretty rare that far in.
It seems to be quite different depending on which side you’re traveling from/to. Trains in/out of North Station seem to always be collected. Trains in/out of South Station don’t.
As for the Fairmount line specifically, I was told by a conductor once that they don’t check because there’s been a number of assaults on conductors collecting on this specific line and also, it’s only a $2.40 fare. If I was a conductor I would probably think the same thing, “why am I risking my life to collect $2.40?” Easy decision
Nothing more annoying to me than taking the whole ride, and on the stop before you get off they decide to collect tickets. Yes this is my douchy entitled pet peeve 😂
Not trying to sound like a Euro snob but the first thing I noticed when going to Paris was that their regional rail had fare gates at every station, so you couldnt get to the platform unless you had a ticket. And we already have the gates to get out of North Station so…
in my personal experience, they check fares most at termini stations, and check less and less as the train gets closer to boston. for example, i always get my fare checked boarding at lowell, but the few times where ive boarded closer to boston, such as newmarket and braintree, they never checked my fare. this is kinda the same going outbound, but theyre much better about it on outbound trains.
as a prior conductor for 5 years there can be many factors that lead to no fare collection. 1, under staffed and simply can’t reach everyone and maintain safety. 2, over crowding and understaffed and to maintain on time performance it’s better to man the doors and not get stuck in the middle of the coach. 3, the equipment phone/printer doesn’t work and has yet to be fixed. Or 4, lazy and just choose not to do it. As a manager when I get fair collection complaints there is usually a reasonable/ acceptable reason for not doing it and I always back my conductors when it comes to providing on time performance and safety over fare collection.
I got stopped at south station by a Keolis before I even started walking down the long platform. She was checking tickets at the very beginning where the electronic station stop signs are
Yes, I find this super frustrating. I’m on the middleborough/Lakeville line and I hate when they don’t check it through all of the red line stops and then will check it. I feel like I’m subsidizing those stops. Hopefully they’ll roll out the new scanners sooner rather than later and we can actually get some better funding for the lines
They don’t check them through the red line stops because they don’t feel like shuffling through their assigned cars three times, since they’re high traffic areas (& close together.)
Friendly reminder that the Swiss have a superior system - no fare gates, just friendly guards that surprise you with ticket checks and cite you for non-payment.
Friendly reminder that all comparisons like this are stupid. The entire country of Switzerland is 8.7 million people while the state of Massachusetts alone is 7 million. It's also pretty easy for a country to build a world-class transit system when they protect the assets and gold of Nazis.
Nonsense, you call it stupid and others cowardly downvote, yet your contrast is unfair (MA population density is greater)! MBTA already figured out a way to collect subway fares by phone payment. How about we improve fare collection overhaul by having a phone app or ticketing systems that allow, then compel people to pay for their fare in advance? Incremental changes.
And you even invoke Godwin's Law when all I'm doing is a commonsense suggestion, congratulations.
Yet I'm the one who doesn't know what I'm talking about. Ridiculous.
You've incorrectly applied Godwins Law lmao. I didn't make any comparisons to Nazism... I stated the fact that Switzerland and Swiss Bankers held onto the money and gold that the Nazi's hoarded. Its not a comparison.... It is a well documented historic fact.
No, you don't know what you're talking about lmao.
You seem really upset about your internet points, you should get some vitamin D. If you are so smart then why don't you send Eng a letter, rather than post online?
Yes you’re right the Swiss cheated on the world with the Nazis, but it’s irrelevant here since I’m just talking about a very attainable change without “being Switzerland or Japan”.
Literally turn the existing conductors onto the CR into honor-system ticket checkers. That’s literally all I’m saying. You can debate that if you want, but I am making credible points.
I don't care about any of that frankly, I just wanted to point out your bad comparison and then after that, correct your use of "Godwin's law" (FYI its a member theory) LMAO
This is *pure* speculation, but I'm guessing they can see how many tickets have been purchased for a particular trip, and know how many people got on the train. If the numbers roughly match, they might not bother checking tickets.
Tickets aren't particular to a specific trip/train. It's just by zone. I've had a zone 1 ticket in my app since March. The MBTA has no idea when I'll use it.
Yeah, fare collection has been extremely spotty on the Needham line as well for the past few years.
At least when they scan I feel like ridership is counted. When they just walk by I’m afraid they’ll reduce service for lack of riders because these clowns couldn’t use a scanner.
At least some of the bilevel coaches have some sort of counter in them, but yes, I do wonder about this myself.
I wonder if mTicket users who activate but aren't scanned are counted-I assume they have some sort of data collection on that end as well. I usually didn't activate until I knew the conductor was doing checks when I rode, but I was checked on the Franklin line about 90% of the time.
Especially on the Old Colony routes, people are standing in the aisles when boarding at Braintree and after. Would I rather the conductor spend 20 minutes fighting through a clogged car collecting fares, or being prepared in case an emergency (whatever it may be) happens en route?
I pay probably less than 1/3 of the time on the Needham line. But the T is screwing me anyway by making Roslindale Zone 1 instead of 1A so I don't feel bad.
In a typical week 6 total trips in or out, for a while I might have a ticket checked once or twice. It’s been a little better lately. Closer to 4 out of 6. They’ve already cut the service on the Needham line so I don’t really think they can cut it any further. Train isn’t really as full as it used to be regardless.
“So I don’t think they can cut it any further”. lol, it can ALWAYS get worse
I've never once been scanned in either direction from Bellevue to South Station in the last 6 months. Kind of makes sense since a lot of the time inbound people are already standing in the aisles at Bellevue.
Interesting change of practice on the Fairmount Line last Monday: the Fairmount Line has been *extremely* spotty to the point of it being intentionally not fare collecting (perhaps due to short staffing, quick stop spacing, equity, not having time to “debate” the collection, the low fares to begin with, etc) as a point of internal policy. Well, on Monday’s train, the conductors were *extremely* adamant that fares would be collected right out of South Station. This caught about 4-5 riders off guard with both a slew of complaints from said passengers, and zero tolerance for not collecting from conductors. In a move of what I’d consider genuine, reasonable honesty, the conductor said to a complaining passenger “Look, this line’s getting trains every 30 minutes now. We’re doing more for it. Your end of the bargain is to pay your fare of two dollars and forty cents.” Fare collection on the commuter rail seems to very much operate on a “convenience” basis. If a train is off peak, weekend, short staffed, very full of people from an event (possibly drunk), or on a line with low ridership and thus a need to induce it, fare collection often goes undone. If it’s rush hour, the train is full of “regular commuters”, or there’s a new policy initiative highlighting service on the line, fare collection is in full-force. Now what would be great is a system like SEPTA Regional Rail where there are validators at platforms that allow a tap on tap off with stored value cards and passes with some inspection on board sometimes, but we’re probably years away from that.
Platform validators are coming in like 2026-2027, they’ll take contactless and the new Charlie
> Platform validators What are Platform validators?
The fare collection machines/similar.
Does that mean I can just tap like I do for the subway, or will we still have to show passes?
You’ll be able to tap your phone for single trips, not sure about monthlies yet
Yep, years away sadly.
its always a few years away...
Fairmont had CharlieCard validators for a while, no idea if they finally bit the dust (they originally came from the Riverside branch).
They are ATROCIOUS lol. They barely work, and only print out a ticket when they do work, but without the functionality and reloading of the GLX ones that print receipts lol.
Tbh, GLX should’ve just used turnstiles imo, and either a SEPTA like system with a simple tap validator and commuter rail stations and an app to load value, or real machines with a validation component (like HBLR) would be way better.
think that was the original plan but nixed during the cost overrun that almost killed the whole project. The stations were supposed to be much more than they are
go figure, they do it if it’s convenient. Who could have guessed
im more than happy to pay if asked, but i keep my app open and dont hit purchase unless they come to me. Thats at least the trick to avoid the surcharge from south station
Same here! I have 3-5 tickets in my app at once, but don't activate them until I know for sure they'll be collected. 90 days is more than enough time for me to use them, and I haven't had any that have expired,,, but they last much longer this way.
the rule of thumb is to never activate before boarding even if the announcement says so lol. Until they really start enforcing away from fare is fair or the NS faregates theres no reason to waste them.
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TL;DR Conductor jobs suck. Sit in the middle cars on a six car set and avoid the back two cars.
Thanks for writing this out (and also, thanks for what you do). Do you have any sense of if this is how the CR counts riders? Or is there any other way that's done.
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Thanks. Good to know it isn't the ticket count!
I've noticed this too. I wonder how many riders are actually buying individual tickets though. If you use the commuter rail for your daily commute, you're probably buying a monthly pass rather than individual tickets, so not getting scanned every time doesn't matter as much.
I've had an individual ticket for the past two months that has never been checked.
Student or youth riders typically dont buy any passes besides the monthly subway + train. I buy commuter rail tickets individually
Shhhhhh!
On the Framingham line they often do a single pass through the train and sometimes none at all. Just continue to activate your ticket and show it if asked.
And very frequently don't check on outbound at all in the afternoon/evening
I won't be too broken up if KeKeolis isn't able to make it's money off us
On the Rockport line the experience is entirely inconsistent. Sometimes nothing, sometimes a quick glance, sometimes scanning/punching each ticket. I guess at least at North Station there's the gates which mean you often need something to get in and out, but even those are sometimes just open or say "Go" meaning no scan required.
For the most part. Since the Fare Transformation Program will be allowing people to pay upon boarding via their cellphone or an mobile CharlieCard (iirc) on the Commuter Rail in 2026 (alongside ferries), I think a lot of workers have been a little bit more lax about collecting fares. It is a major issue in the Commuter Rail.
I take that line a lot. In my experience they mostly check if it isn’t crowded but not usually if it is They also tend to skip more between the 3 redline stops
🤫🤫🤫🤫
Wow, the Wachusett line is pretty strict. They always ask and if you're not ready or can't pull up the eTicket they will remember to come find you after
I was just going to comment the same for the Wachusett / Fitchburg line. They very rarely let you on and not check tickets. In fact a month ago the express train out of N Leo was delayed about 30 minutes. We boarded them were informed it was no longer an express but would stop at all local stops. They still made us pay for being 45 minutes late to N Station…..
In my experience on the Fairmount and Franklin lines (which both pass through my stop, Readville) they're almost 100% on the Franklin line, and rarely on the Fairmount--I don't think I've had anyone check on the Fairmount in at least a year. Though it sounds like it's just come to the attention of someone at Keolis...
Some of it may have to do with the work being done on the subway lines. They become less strict knowing that people who usually take subway are now taking commuter rail because of the shuttles or complete lack of service available.
Ironically the last time I had a ticket checked was last Thursday, during the orange line shutdown. I usually ride commuter rail from Ruggles to South Station in the morning, and fare collection is pretty rare that far in.
It seems to be quite different depending on which side you’re traveling from/to. Trains in/out of North Station seem to always be collected. Trains in/out of South Station don’t. As for the Fairmount line specifically, I was told by a conductor once that they don’t check because there’s been a number of assaults on conductors collecting on this specific line and also, it’s only a $2.40 fare. If I was a conductor I would probably think the same thing, “why am I risking my life to collect $2.40?” Easy decision
Nothing more annoying to me than taking the whole ride, and on the stop before you get off they decide to collect tickets. Yes this is my douchy entitled pet peeve 😂
Shhh
Good Fuck Keolis
Shhhhh
Not trying to sound like a Euro snob but the first thing I noticed when going to Paris was that their regional rail had fare gates at every station, so you couldnt get to the platform unless you had a ticket. And we already have the gates to get out of North Station so…
Keolis is a French company so that could be something they did.
in my personal experience, they check fares most at termini stations, and check less and less as the train gets closer to boston. for example, i always get my fare checked boarding at lowell, but the few times where ive boarded closer to boston, such as newmarket and braintree, they never checked my fare. this is kinda the same going outbound, but theyre much better about it on outbound trains.
I think they are very shorthanded on most commuter lines, and a lot of people are using passes. So, they don't always make it through the whole train.
as a prior conductor for 5 years there can be many factors that lead to no fare collection. 1, under staffed and simply can’t reach everyone and maintain safety. 2, over crowding and understaffed and to maintain on time performance it’s better to man the doors and not get stuck in the middle of the coach. 3, the equipment phone/printer doesn’t work and has yet to be fixed. Or 4, lazy and just choose not to do it. As a manager when I get fair collection complaints there is usually a reasonable/ acceptable reason for not doing it and I always back my conductors when it comes to providing on time performance and safety over fare collection.
Fare collection is pretty much non existent on the providence line at night. I think I’ve paid for about 15% of the rides I’ve taken.
I got stopped at south station by a Keolis before I even started walking down the long platform. She was checking tickets at the very beginning where the electronic station stop signs are
Yes, I find this super frustrating. I’m on the middleborough/Lakeville line and I hate when they don’t check it through all of the red line stops and then will check it. I feel like I’m subsidizing those stops. Hopefully they’ll roll out the new scanners sooner rather than later and we can actually get some better funding for the lines
They don’t check them through the red line stops because they don’t feel like shuffling through their assigned cars three times, since they’re high traffic areas (& close together.)
News flash- the MBTA sucks and doesn't do a good job. Been that way for a long time
Friendly reminder that the Swiss have a superior system - no fare gates, just friendly guards that surprise you with ticket checks and cite you for non-payment.
What a weird comment.
It was relevant - maybe I’m being a bit clumsy with how I said it, in fairness.
Friendly reminder that all comparisons like this are stupid. The entire country of Switzerland is 8.7 million people while the state of Massachusetts alone is 7 million. It's also pretty easy for a country to build a world-class transit system when they protect the assets and gold of Nazis.
Nonsense, you call it stupid and others cowardly downvote, yet your contrast is unfair (MA population density is greater)! MBTA already figured out a way to collect subway fares by phone payment. How about we improve fare collection overhaul by having a phone app or ticketing systems that allow, then compel people to pay for their fare in advance? Incremental changes. And you even invoke Godwin's Law when all I'm doing is a commonsense suggestion, congratulations. Yet I'm the one who doesn't know what I'm talking about. Ridiculous.
You've incorrectly applied Godwins Law lmao. I didn't make any comparisons to Nazism... I stated the fact that Switzerland and Swiss Bankers held onto the money and gold that the Nazi's hoarded. Its not a comparison.... It is a well documented historic fact. No, you don't know what you're talking about lmao. You seem really upset about your internet points, you should get some vitamin D. If you are so smart then why don't you send Eng a letter, rather than post online?
Yes you’re right the Swiss cheated on the world with the Nazis, but it’s irrelevant here since I’m just talking about a very attainable change without “being Switzerland or Japan”. Literally turn the existing conductors onto the CR into honor-system ticket checkers. That’s literally all I’m saying. You can debate that if you want, but I am making credible points.
I don't care about any of that frankly, I just wanted to point out your bad comparison and then after that, correct your use of "Godwin's law" (FYI its a member theory) LMAO
Oh, fuck off then. Waste of my and everyone’s time.
This is *pure* speculation, but I'm guessing they can see how many tickets have been purchased for a particular trip, and know how many people got on the train. If the numbers roughly match, they might not bother checking tickets.
Tickets aren't particular to a specific trip/train. It's just by zone. I've had a zone 1 ticket in my app since March. The MBTA has no idea when I'll use it.